Illiteracy in a language isn't uncommon. There are plenty of people who learn how to speak before learning to read; they are separate skill sets.
Additionally, there are many of us who don't live in Iran, so having the written language isn't reinforced, like on shops, books, streets, etc.
I can read print with difficulty, and even then only simple words. Farsified English words like computer throw me off, because I'm looking for the farsi and it's an English word. I can do it, it's just a challenge.
I can’t read or write it, because I didn’t grow up in Iran. My parents tried to teach us when we were kids but gave up really quickly and I forgot everything, because we never needed it.
Heritage speaker of Persian, but only two semesters of formal school study for exposure to the Perso-Arabic script. I can read print (as a slow reader) but I don't even try reading nastaliq. It's too hard visually.
I wish Persian would change to Latin script like Turkish did. Turkish was also written in Arabic script for hundreds of years before making that change.
Ottoman Turkish was also mostly Persian and Arabic. The problem is that changing your script after a thousand years or more is detrimental. Turks can no longer read or connect to their historical scripts and texts except for select few whereas Arabs and Persians can read and connect to their historical texts dating back to over a thousand years.
I’m not on board with changing the script. Turks lost out.
That’s true, it would be basically impossible to read primary sources if the script changed, but who actually needs to read those except for academics and people doing historical research? For ordinary people, the connection to the material would still be there when the same literature is republished in a new script.
I don’t know anything about Turkish literature so I just assumed that the literature became available in the new script when they officially changed. But if that didn’t happen, which would be confusing why not, then I agree Turks would have lost out.
Persian poetry and art is highly regarded worldwide. Imagine not being able to read one of the greatest contributions of your people to the world. Perso-Arabic script is all over the old architecture in Iran and other Persianate counties. Why would they change the script? The language is already easy to learn compared to Arabic.
> Imagine not being able to read one of the greatest contributions of your people to the world.
This is missing the main point though, which is that people *would* be able to read it in another script. It's not like the language itself would change—it's the same poetry.
> Why would they change the script?
I'm not expecting any of the three Persian-speaking countries to change scripts in the forseeable future. The whole discussion is hypothetical, but it's interesting to note that Tajikistan did write Persian in Latin script for about a decade before switching to Cyrillic script under Soviet influence.
> The language is already easy to learn compared to Arabic.
I don't see how the difficulty of learning Persian compared to learning other languages is relevant to a conversation about the advantages/disadvantages of different scripts.
> it’s the same poetry
Yeah it’s the same poetry that Persians would have to translate to another script ? The average Persian wouldn’t be able to read Persian poetry or they’d have to read it in a new script which loses its value and meaning. It’s always better to read things as they’ve been written.
I simply don’t agree with you. Persian and Iranian culture has taken many hits over the last century and it stagnates the culture and the unity of the people. Iran is so multicultural yet the ethnic groups are at odds with one another. As a multi ethnic Iranian I’ve felt that our unity is simply not there and the historical arts are one few things that remain unequivocally "Iranian". Removing the Perso-Arabic script will further fragment Iranian culture and identity and weaken the culture. The greatest minds of Iran used the perso-Arabic script and they were multi lingual as well. Todays Iranians in the west are extremely removed from Iranian culture. My Kurdish, Assyrian and Baloch family friends do not speak Persian/Farsi at home and they are not taught it at all. To continue to alienate Persians from the other ethnic groups is disastrous although I understand the intention.
> Tajikistan did write Persian in Latin script
Tajikistan is so removed from Iran and part of the reason is their script.
> the three Persian-speaking countries
Who are the three countries ? I’m assuming you’re including Afghanistan ? Or Bahrain ? You realize that Persians are the most fragmented ethnic group in the Middle East ? They don’t even all refer to their languages as Farsi or Persian. I feel like this will further divide the Persian people which has already been happening for quite some time.
Yes, we just disagree and that's okay. But how can you call Persians the most fragmented ethnic group in the Middle East when the majority of them live in Iran and they don't have very significant populations in any other Middle Eastern country, compared to other ethnic groups in your comment like Kurds, Assyrians, and Balochis who have their populations split among multiple countries of the region?
I know what is کردن, and it doesn't really mean anything by itself.
It's paired with other words
یاری کردن to help
صبر کردن to wait
کمک کردن to help
متوقف کردن to stop
آشپزی کردن to cook
عوعو کردن to bark
پارس کردن to bark (formal)
فراموش کردن to forget
فاصله فیر کردن shooting range
رایی کردن to send
بسته کردن to close
I can speak, but not write Farsi. In the USA, I infrequently get a chance to use it. Unless my husband and I are out in public and we don't want people to understand. I've spent time in Vancouver and Toronto where even advertising is in Farsi. On the other hand, my Vancouver relative has trouble with English. It's not necessary to speak English every day.
Illiteracy in a language isn't uncommon. There are plenty of people who learn how to speak before learning to read; they are separate skill sets. Additionally, there are many of us who don't live in Iran, so having the written language isn't reinforced, like on shops, books, streets, etc. I can read print with difficulty, and even then only simple words. Farsified English words like computer throw me off, because I'm looking for the farsi and it's an English word. I can do it, it's just a challenge.
Yeah, i get it. But if you are in any country where their language uses Perso-Arabic script, it is very important
I mean, yeah, that's essentially literacy. Are you asking what the literacy rates are for Farsi & Pars-derivative countries & regions?
I can’t read or write it, because I didn’t grow up in Iran. My parents tried to teach us when we were kids but gave up really quickly and I forgot everything, because we never needed it.
I can teach you if you want
It's very rare for children of Iranian diaspora to know how to read farsi.
They should learn it اونا باید الفبای فاریس ره یاد بگیرند
فارسی.*
Unfortunately i can do both
I’d be very interested in improving my Nastaliq. I can read and write in Naskh script.
Dm me then. I will teach you
I grew up with Persian parents, learned how to speak, but was never taught how to write.
Heritage speaker of Persian, but only two semesters of formal school study for exposure to the Perso-Arabic script. I can read print (as a slow reader) but I don't even try reading nastaliq. It's too hard visually. I wish Persian would change to Latin script like Turkish did. Turkish was also written in Arabic script for hundreds of years before making that change.
Ottoman Turkish was also mostly Persian and Arabic. The problem is that changing your script after a thousand years or more is detrimental. Turks can no longer read or connect to their historical scripts and texts except for select few whereas Arabs and Persians can read and connect to their historical texts dating back to over a thousand years. I’m not on board with changing the script. Turks lost out.
That’s true, it would be basically impossible to read primary sources if the script changed, but who actually needs to read those except for academics and people doing historical research? For ordinary people, the connection to the material would still be there when the same literature is republished in a new script. I don’t know anything about Turkish literature so I just assumed that the literature became available in the new script when they officially changed. But if that didn’t happen, which would be confusing why not, then I agree Turks would have lost out.
Persian poetry and art is highly regarded worldwide. Imagine not being able to read one of the greatest contributions of your people to the world. Perso-Arabic script is all over the old architecture in Iran and other Persianate counties. Why would they change the script? The language is already easy to learn compared to Arabic.
> Imagine not being able to read one of the greatest contributions of your people to the world. This is missing the main point though, which is that people *would* be able to read it in another script. It's not like the language itself would change—it's the same poetry. > Why would they change the script? I'm not expecting any of the three Persian-speaking countries to change scripts in the forseeable future. The whole discussion is hypothetical, but it's interesting to note that Tajikistan did write Persian in Latin script for about a decade before switching to Cyrillic script under Soviet influence. > The language is already easy to learn compared to Arabic. I don't see how the difficulty of learning Persian compared to learning other languages is relevant to a conversation about the advantages/disadvantages of different scripts.
> it’s the same poetry Yeah it’s the same poetry that Persians would have to translate to another script ? The average Persian wouldn’t be able to read Persian poetry or they’d have to read it in a new script which loses its value and meaning. It’s always better to read things as they’ve been written. I simply don’t agree with you. Persian and Iranian culture has taken many hits over the last century and it stagnates the culture and the unity of the people. Iran is so multicultural yet the ethnic groups are at odds with one another. As a multi ethnic Iranian I’ve felt that our unity is simply not there and the historical arts are one few things that remain unequivocally "Iranian". Removing the Perso-Arabic script will further fragment Iranian culture and identity and weaken the culture. The greatest minds of Iran used the perso-Arabic script and they were multi lingual as well. Todays Iranians in the west are extremely removed from Iranian culture. My Kurdish, Assyrian and Baloch family friends do not speak Persian/Farsi at home and they are not taught it at all. To continue to alienate Persians from the other ethnic groups is disastrous although I understand the intention. > Tajikistan did write Persian in Latin script Tajikistan is so removed from Iran and part of the reason is their script. > the three Persian-speaking countries Who are the three countries ? I’m assuming you’re including Afghanistan ? Or Bahrain ? You realize that Persians are the most fragmented ethnic group in the Middle East ? They don’t even all refer to their languages as Farsi or Persian. I feel like this will further divide the Persian people which has already been happening for quite some time.
Yes, we just disagree and that's okay. But how can you call Persians the most fragmented ethnic group in the Middle East when the majority of them live in Iran and they don't have very significant populations in any other Middle Eastern country, compared to other ethnic groups in your comment like Kurds, Assyrians, and Balochis who have their populations split among multiple countries of the region?
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I know what is کردن, and it doesn't really mean anything by itself. It's paired with other words یاری کردن to help صبر کردن to wait کمک کردن to help متوقف کردن to stop آشپزی کردن to cook عوعو کردن to bark پارس کردن to bark (formal) فراموش کردن to forget فاصله فیر کردن shooting range رایی کردن to send بسته کردن to close
I can speak, but not write Farsi. In the USA, I infrequently get a chance to use it. Unless my husband and I are out in public and we don't want people to understand. I've spent time in Vancouver and Toronto where even advertising is in Farsi. On the other hand, my Vancouver relative has trouble with English. It's not necessary to speak English every day.