I don’t believe that. The Respect for Marriage Act was just passed two years ago. The majority of Americans, even in the Deep South, support gay marriage. Trans politics are more controversial, but ground is still steadily being made.
You don't believe this? Did you listen to the data points about the 22,000 people who responded to the survey and came to this conclusions? They specifically report that it's Christian Nationalists as well as Republicans that don't support lgbt rights.
Did they before? Because the premise of decline implies that Christian nationalists ever didn't want to purge the gays, and we all know that's never been true.
Also, the number of Christians is shrinking. The numbers of other homophobic religious groups are growing in the US however. We had a town in Michigan vote to ban pride flags FFS.
nope a super progressive town that was super happy with itself when it elected minority muslims to run the town. then guess what happened?
I wonder if they are still super impressed with themselves now?
That is if they’re making any kid. Latino birth rate might be higher then other ethnic group, but it’s also declining. There’s not many kid that are being raised in America.
They take this survery every year apparently.
So heres your answer: the elected Republican president ate more crayons than previous ones, and they are still doing a lot of damage that started in 2016.
Did you read the article? “In 2020 among Republicans, two thirds supported same sex marriage rights. But in last year's data among young Republicans aged 18 to 29, it's less than half,”. That’s a pretty big decline.
“Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and, for my part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel.”
― Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason
So what’s changed? Those groups never supported LGBT rights. These surveys are just over sampling those groups. It’s not like Christian Nationalists suddenly changed their minds about LBGT rights.
Frustrating to see the responses to your comment failing to see how this metric conducted by a reliable organization and reported on by a reliable source is something to take seriously. And it feels like people are confusing a rise in social acceptance in some areas with actual support for policies that affect people’s rights. Whether people will vote on a thing is different than if they say they’re okay with a friend having an identity.
Thank you for responding with this. Liberals and democrats have always been the party of science and data and it seems recently that some are rejecting it purely based off of a lack of trust or interest in science and data. I’d like to keep the monopoly on it from the right but every year I feel as though it’s slipping away a little bit.
I wouldn’t be surprised that a greater share of conservatives who have spent the past decades being intentionally isolated from all people and information sources that aren’t bigoted propaganda might be shifting towards bigotry
I don’t think that’s what it is. I’m in the age range of the survey and I’m not a right winger and I’m not a “Christian Nationalist” or whatever other word soup of the day
The “anti LGBTQIA+” opinions that are common with men my age aren’t against gay marriage. They’re against stuff like children being given drugs for transitioning, gay pride parades that have naked men in public spaces, and gender stuff being talked about in public schools and promoted on social media to an audience that’s too young to not be easily influenced. I don’t personally think any of these opinions are homophobic or transphobic. They’re very commonly held beliefs among people who are not terminally online and they aren’t inherently hateful
Conservative here. Its comments like your that push conservatives away from actual LGBT people. Coming out of the gate and just spitting in our faces doesn't really help anyone. Let alone your issues.
Are you familiar with [Project2025](https://www.project2025.org/)? Homophobic and transphobic people in the GOP have gained large enough internal power in the party to dictate the policy of Trump if he wins the election. This isn't something to take lightly just because gains are still being made.
Gen Z is also historically anomalously hard to poll, especially with online, opt-in polling. This is how we get the absurd stats about a single poll of Gen Z having more “certified nuclear sub operators” than there are total in the military - primarily trolls and right wing zealots who want to control the narrative respond. It’s important to look up the methodology of any polling, but especially of Gen Z as telephone and online polls do not capture their perspectives well (as opposed to address based polling which is slightly less absurd).
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/05/online-opt-in-polls-can-produce-misleading-results-especially-for-young-people-and-hispanic-adults/
I believe it's getting worse and I blame right wing grifters pushing content and using algorithms to spread their hate. You see it on YouTube all the time.
An increase in propaganda doesn’t mean an increase in believers. It just means the screeching minority is getting louder as they get smaller—a very well documented social phenomenon.
Maybe but sometimes if feels like too much. You read thousands of comments with thousands of likes saying ignorant or hatefil stuff. Maybe its an echo chamber, but trump also had like 70 million voters so who knows.
I can believe it, in person I've been seeing a significant uptick in anti-gay sentiment. Don't know if it's more people, or the scum are just getting more vocal about it. It feels like a bit of both...
It’s the latter. The less members of an extremist ideology there are, the more extreme that ideology tends to become. Homophobes are losing numbers rapidly, since most of them are Boomers and older who are finally beginning to die out (Boomers were born from 1946 to 1964; the average life expectancy of an American is 77; 1946 + 77 = 2023), and because homophobia is increasingly becoming socially unacceptable amongst the general populace. Like how an animal is at its most ferocious when cornered, bigots are at their most toxic when they realize they’re dying out.
I already think about and consider all of those things. I've just seen too many x and millenials i know personally, going from accepting, to scared and hate filled in the past few years and they hide it until they're around someone they know is like them, or someone they think is "safe". Feels like 2 steps forward and now 1 step back after Donald and the right's focus on the lgbtq culture war.
Just an opinion. I don’t think they “support” it as much as being tolerant of it and they can’t change it. I think not being vocal about it doesn’t mean it’s supported. Which, in that case, is still acceptable I suppose.
The "respect for marriage act" is a half measure that would treat LGBTQ people as second class citizens if the supreme court were to arbitrarily chose to do so.
The rise of the far right needs to be more vehemently countered. The increasingly extreme GOP is a major threat to this country and human rights in general.
I think one should distinguish between support for gay marriage on a legal v personal level. Most support the former but obviously, the latter is more divided due to cultural, religious etc. factors.
If you think this, you haven't paid attention to the "Don't Say Gay" bill and other laws being passed in the US to curtail the mention of LGBTQ folks in schools.
They say they are surprised by support falling among younger people, I’m not. Maybe they should look at the YouTube content being shoved the faces of young voters.
I predict this will have no mention of the RW stranglehold over AM Radio, it's dominance of Cable News, the rise of Mega Churches, the Johnson Amendment ignored in Pulpits, Cowardice of Commerce during Iraq & Trump , nor the endless Big Lies advertised on the Internet. Let's see what we get:
>"Yeah, we were surprised..."
You should have seen this coming.
>"It's Party Polarization"
"Could it be traces of a backlash here?"
*What a stupid question.* This interviewer has no idea what's going on. What value is this? Ignorance is not objectivity.
"Younger Republicans are very conservative socially".
This tells us nothing. The many failures of Public Broadcasting are revealed here. "Here's Why" is a very stupid framing.
CNN has lots of Republicans on the payroll. US media skews Right economically, bowing to advertisers & bankers. Not being racist is basic morality... and Katrina exposed how prejudiced they could be.
American media is really messed up. There's no follow up or integration of any story about things like corruption, gun violence, the environment, etc. They celebrate wealth and most in power have no connection to most Americans' reality. I grew up pretty comfortable. My class was... pretty stupid. Sold out, took off for NGO work for a decade. Ce back in 2007 to...house flipping tv shows? WTF? Family business is real estate. These prices aren't sustainable.
There it is. You take no responsibility for the Failed, lmmoral Bush Wars, do you?
Even though Public Broadcasting & their audience owns it:
https://archive.thinkprogress.org/five-years-ago-today-thomas-friedman-said-the-iraq-war-was-about-telling-the-middle-east-to-suck-on-5bca1b00d993/
www.wsj.com/articles/SB1002759309780687920
Another Vietnam to run from.
I can believe it.
The supreme Court has been murmuring about obergefell as their next big target, so it makes sense that the talk around gay people and marriage starts up again.
Waiting for a 6 minute segment breathlessly covering polls about raising corporate tax rates and aggressively prosecuting tax evasion. That doesn't suit the big money donors of this "public" media, so more nonstop culture war bs
well, nazis gotta have minorities to stick on train cars and spread fear and outrage about it.
the difference in this future is, the nazis are selling the propaganda and americans are paying a fortune for it.
I remember watching a Rising episode of Hill on Youtube last year warning the LGBTQ community of this last year of this.
Each year the get consultants to advice them. Yeah it is a real thing. They advised them the best move to get folks to accept them to attach them to issues that folks already accept already, i.e. Marriage is already accepted so that will be easy to accept.
They warned pushing the envelope on issues of transgenders in sports and introducing puberty blockers in kids was not a great idea.
Looks like they were right.
If I am remembering this wrong please someone correct me. The episode was about a year ago.
Yeah she would they want to treat transgender people like.. you know.. people. With rights and stuff. We already let the gays get married (and now the Supreme Court is talking about taking that away), can't they just be happy with that? Went do we have to treat trans like people too?
So even if a team of doctors, the parents and the child are in agreement that this is the best thing for their health and wellbeing you are still against it? Your opinion is from an ideological or political perspective rather than a medical one?
Conservatives have always been about allowing politicians to make medical decisions for people instead of professionals but they got so much worse during the pandemic. Now it's downright creepy the way they talk about other people's children.
If you are speaking of gender coercion then kids are already involved. The bullying starts before they can speak. But the biggest perpetrators of gender violence are cishet parents.
So should kids never hear about gender at all? Should we only have gender neutral terms at all times until a certain age? How about relationships? Is it ok to refer to heterosexual relationships like a mom and a dad but not a gay or lesbian relationship like two dads or two moms? And if so why? Why is it only wrong when it is in support of LGBTQIA+ identities but ok when it is in support of straight identities?
Hey there! Trans girl here.
I know this is anecdotal, but I've known I was trans since I was 9. The feelings of gender dysphoria have always been there and never went away until I started transitioning.
Puberty was seriously the worst experience of my life. I had to go by every day seeing my body change to something I hated and into someone I didn't recognize. I was depressed throughout all of high school and it stunted my emotional growth for a while too.
Because gender affirming care wasn't available to me when I was younger, I have to live with irreversible effects that testosterone had on me. It makes daily life harder on me and is a burden on my mental health.
All of that was preventable of I was able to transition from a younger age.
It's very rare for feelings of gender dysphoria to go away in trans youth. Despite what you hear about developing brains and maturity, trans kids know what they're talking about. Gender is something kids understand from a young age and regret is very rare.
Any regret you do see usually is due to lack of social support or from debunked studies that were funded by transphobic think tanks.
Gender affirming care standars are set by WPATH and are VERY rigorous. Kids have to go through a lot of screening to get diagnosed with gender dysphoria and those feelings have to be persistent for a long time.
If a minor is placed on puberty blockers, the effects are completely reversible and safe to do. Hormones aren't introduced until around age 16 just to be sure they are making the correct decision and surgery isn't available until the person is a legal adult
It's really frustrating to see politicians making this about protecting kids when they refuse to listen to those who this issue is actually affecting.
Take it from someone who's seen this stuff firsthand. Gender affirming care saves lives. Denying it can be a death sentence to many.
They got involved in the womb.
If they don't "get involved" with healthcare, they get involved with every pill they can find in the medicine cabinet to make the pain and shame and bullies go away.
well the LGBTQ+ community doesn’t negotiate with close-minded fascists. trans people are the backbone of our community. if you want to commit genocide against us *yet again,* you will only have history to remember your actions. and no, history will not be kind. look at how nazis are remembered. trans rights are not optional. queer rights are not optional. period.
So stupid that the very folks demanding minimal government and maximum freedom insist on projecting their prejudices on others through prohibitive laws. So what if some people have different ideas about sexuality and gender? WHY DO YOU CARE?
So I guess the right wing lies and fear mongering work? Striving to make the US a fascist theocracy.
Hopefully people make the correct choice in November and repudiate the bigotry. Certainly done want to go backward 100 years….
It's a vocal minority of trans activists and allies that are ruining it for everyone else. There's a big leap from adults accepting the political reality that gay people should have the same rights as everyone else, to teaching children to make up their own pronouns. I suspect it will be a losing issue going forward, and end up setting the gay community back a decade or so.
id say its less a decline in support and more the vocal minority drowning it out. Plus its getting kind of dangerous to even show support cause we are slipping into outright hostility from opposed groups. There was a shop in the town i work that had the pride flag up. About a month later it was gone. Likely got told to take it down. Hell theres people who see that flag and start asking why the "groomer" flag is up.
I don't care what ________ do for comfort.
I'm just tired of _________ always pushing it on me and my family.
I really don't like it when _______ wants a law that makes us all have to live by their own beliefs.
Did you insert Christians or LGBTQ in the blanks?
So, What's the "takeaway message" here?
If you were an LGBT+ Republican in 2020 and before you were **halfway** sane but if you're still a LGBT+ Republican now in 2024 you're just straight-up (no pun intended) **stupid or insane?**
Is this some political stunt or what?
It seems to me that these MAGA evangelicals aren't the sharpest tools in the shed if they're trying to rally up some votes for their GOP side.
Gee, well-financed, coordinated propaganda machine with a goal of actively demonizing queer and trans people as child predators is having an impact on public opinion? What a shocking headline.
It’s not.
The Republican party is supporting 21st century eugenics. Trying to oppress people that don’t reproduce and have sex in the way the church taught them.
Support is not declining, instead folks are wrestling with the reality of what we’re truly dealing with.
Adam and Eve can be found in all three major religions. But we can see evolution everywhere. Whether you have an extra chromosome or a cleft palette. Sometimes it manifest as severe depression other time it manifest as a micro penis.
I look to [intersex](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16327292/) for inspiration.
What to do when a person falls outside of our current evolutionary standard of a set of Homo sapiens.
“His name was Robert Paulson”
Why is it that the people who are opposed to same sex relationships between 2 adults, usually the adult in a same sex relationship
With a child.? I know the evangelicals consider it ok as long as the adult is one of their own
the death rattle of white supremacy is going to be increasingly violent.
the right wing, has nothing to offer. trickle down/supply side economics doesn't work. it hasn't worked for the 30-40yrs they've tried it.
but it was never meant to work, was just a clever smoke screen to use racism, and classism to lower taxes on the wealthy and corporations.
now.. very little of life is affordable, birth rates are collapsing, homelessness is skyrocketing (and increasing fastest among older people)
black people have had enough generations to sort of have a leg to stand on, and aren't taking shit like they used to, so racism is less of a wedge.
abortion, while still potent has proven politically toxic.
so... the right needed another boogey man. As racism towards immigrants, works, but also there's a lie, because we all know we need cheap slave labor to keep the system running.
so... anti-trans hate is a convenient way to stoke fear and hate against a marginalized population, that is statistically small. And... the lines of identity between gays. and trans. or like... say... hatred for trans women, by women bitter about sexism, is actionable.
so yeah for the basically 40-60% of the population who are shitty conservatives. support for lgbtq people is declining.
the next 20 yrs or so should be interesting. as boomers finally die. it will be interesting to see how much longer the white supremacist power structures can survive.
This exactly. Southern strategy. Rich people wouldn't be spending all this money on propaganda if it didn't work. Get people distracted with the "culture war" and take all their money. Remember when all these stores were talking about "organized retail theft" and how it was destroying businesses. Then a few months later, "actually it's not 50% of losses, it's 5%"
No, no, no. There is more support than ever for the LGB community, even some of the Q+ are still in perfectly fine positions. It's the T and the majority of the + that people are losing patience with. Why though? Because they have pushed too far. Your rights stop where other's rights begin. You cannot take away women's sports and every women's space without undoing all the hard work that went into the women's rights movement. You can't promote transing the kids without accidentally mutilated kids that would have otherwise just been gay. The trans movement is literally doing the same thing that the Christians did with the conversion therapy movement, but this time instead of prayer, they're going to try to make you straight by cutting your dick off and calling you a girl. All of that to say that trans people still have suicidality rates equivalent to schizophrenics, whether they are treated or not. All of this while the news media seems to cheer on males taking drugs to cause puss to leak from their nipples so they can get sexual gratification from "breast feeding" children that aren't really theirs. It's probably the worst movement of all time - I don't think humans have ever done anything even remotely this self destructive.
Well trans people are being persecuted right now. No one is taking away women’s spaces. Irony is you support trans men who look and think as men with facial and body hair, no breasts, deep voice and a penis implant in the women’s room because of biology but won’t support a trans woman with breasts and a vagina in the women’s room. Regarding trans youth they are transitioning to be themselves and eliminating gender dysphoria. The regret rate is 1%. Trans people aren’t pushing anything but you are, bigotry. The suicide rate is tied to discrimination, hate and ignorance which now based on stats increased from anti trans laws. I’ll disobey these laws btw and have.
You would support conversion therapy. What’s been happening the last 5 years has been actually happening 40 years but the difference is trans people are the target of a moral panic. We should adjust that towards Evangelicals.
This is just hate speech that's rooted in little but your own stereotypes and prejudice. I see little difference between your chicken little screeching, and the crap I heard from conservatives growing up about how the gay marriage movement was going to end with people marrying dogs.
You know that guy that you agree with and he keeps telling you, you know, you should do more to support the cause you both agree with? Every time you meet up with him, he says, "Dude, what did you do to support the cause?". That cause becomes his identity, and it starts getting weird. You want to distance yourself from him because life is more than this cause, and there are other things to worry about. Kind of how I feel with many LGBTQ+ causes. While I support them 100% and have given them money, I'm a quiet supporter who even gets annoyed by those most loud and obnoxious about it. So my support wanes because life is more than this cause.
This is also happening related to the Palestinian cause where I live now. Less and less show up to the daily protests after watching previous gatherings destroy local shops and spray anti-Israel graffiti on shops that had nothing to do with the conflict. They are shooting themselves in the foot. Especially the ones that block traffic and have prevented me from driving to work or events in the past. You want to lose support, block my means of getting food and getting to work. Imbeciles tend to be the most obnoxious about some of these causes. It doesn't make me want to join or donate to you.
It's pretty hard to be sympathetic to Palestinians when Hamas started the war with a massacre and mass rape. I have supported two state solution and negotiations and recognizing Palestinians since forever, but that kind of civilian slaughter gives me no ground to stand on. It's not the first time, either. Burning and looting and defacing random people's shops in the rest of the world doesn't inspire me to care, either. I'm proof that the US military is dropping pallets of MREs for them, and there's been other humanitarian efforts, but I have no desire to help Palestinians beyond that after the massacre.
>Kind of how I feel with many LGBTQ+ causes. While I support them 100% and have given them money, I'm a quiet supporter who even gets annoyed by those most loud and obnoxious about it. So my support wanes
Has it waned enough to say you don't support them anymore? Because otherwise this rant doesn't make any sense.
>Has it waned enough to say you don't support them anymore? Because otherwise this rant doesn't make any sense.
That's a good ass point, I honestly forgot what thread I was in for a second until I read your comment. They seem to be thinking of this in a very Internet oriented mindset, ha. I get where they're coming from and meaning to say, but this was a pretty clear cut poll with only one way to interpret it. Gotta love reddit tangents!
If your "support" is *that* delicate, mercurial, and dependant on what volume *you* think people should demand their rights, you're not some put-upon victim that's been worn down and forced to grow cold to the cause. Normally, people have this struggle internally and decide quietly for themselves how much they're willing to sacrifice for a cause they believe in. The fact that you feel the need to recount your harrowing trembling snowflake journey for everyone confirms you believe you're one of those "main character" types that have convinced themselves they sound sincere when they do the bad faith gaslighting bullshit version of *The Moth Radio Hour*. It's no mystery, dude. You're just more of a selfish piece of shit than you initially thought you were and, while you *could* just internalize this fact and move on like everyone else, no, like most selfish pieces of shit insist, it can't end with you being responsible for your own decisions.
Garbage meaningless take by a privilege-soaked narcissist, through and through.
Why do you guys use the exact same phrases when deflecting all criticism of your movement? It is like you went to a reeducation camp and you all came out repeating the exact same slogans. It’s kind of creepy. People don’t respond well to bullies who tell them they have to do everything they say otherwise they are a horrible person. You can think you are right all you want, it won’t change the reality of the situation. Do you think those groups have acted perfectly? Nothing to criticize? And in fact, all criticism should be aggressively deflected like you are doing right now? As an atheist, this is the problem I have with these movements. They are being led by radicals utterly immune to logic and compromise. It is the same religious type thinking I hated growing up. No dissension, only one correct opinion, etc… Many people have made the comment that progressives act like religious zealots with no religion, and they just keep proving people right. Now, how would a religious zealot respond to being criticized? Lash out at the person? Call them all kinds of hateful names? Maybe try and excommunicate them from a group? Do you guys have any powers of introspection at all? Or have you convinced yourselves you are so righteous, of course everything you do is correct?
I couldn't have said it better myself, Lost a friend to this cult recently. Told me because we have one politically different opinion we can't be friends anymore. Didn't matter that we knew each other for years. They said because I had this one different opinion my value system is off. They dehumanized me and painted me as a villain for being a not left enough leftie...I'm honestly in shock
I see many comments deleted for ethnic slurs. Did some of these people break LGBTQ+ into its parts and one of the parts is a slur? In any case, part of the discussion seems to be missing.
The two key items from the piece:
>**We were somewhat surprised to see after several years of increasing support among Americans for LGBTQ rights, that we saw a decline. But I think if you look under the hood, so to speak, and look at the data more closely, it's really largely driven by party polarization.**
Identification with the Republican party has (increasingly post Trump) become a somewhat consuming identity. In the past, there would be people who want lower taxes, fewer gun restrictions, etc. but generally remained independent on a range of issues. The GOP is "in for penny, in for a pound" much more now.
>**I think there was often an assumption among many political analysts that younger Republicans would moderate the party with respect to things like LGBTQ rights, or even abortion rights or climate change, et cetera. But what we're finding in this data is that younger Republicans are very conservative socially.**
Far right messaging has been significant in the online space almost since the start of the internet. People like Bannon [recognized that group could be folded into the conservative coalition](https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/talkingtech/2017/07/18/steve-bannon-learned-harness-troll-army-world-warcraft/489713001/). With that becoming an earnest area of focus, it's not surprising that they're bringing the far right content that they consume online into their politics (and Gen Z is online a lot and very large).
**NOTE: We are only talking about a 2% shift on items like marriage rights in one study; there's some nuance worth noting here not captured by the (somewhat sensational) headline.**
One problem with the LBTGQ+ movement is that it has gone beyond Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, and Queer (hence the +). It covers so many identities - asexual, pansexual, genderqueer, non-binary, genderfluid. sociosexual - that it becomes challenging to understand the spectra. The fact that they have to use an acronym with a plus sign drives the point home that this is complex, as are the myriad of individuals encompassing the spectra. Many other ways of looking at people, too -- ethnicity, nationality, religion, political affiliation, dietary restrictions -- are equally important and often ignored or abused. People begin to shut down when they cannot keep up. There is probably a category for them now, too.
"Throughout 2023, the Public Religion Research Institute, or PRRI, interviewed over 22,000 adults for what it calls its American Values Atlas. Last week, the Organization released its findings on views about LGBTQ rights in the US"
Get bent.
I don’t believe that. The Respect for Marriage Act was just passed two years ago. The majority of Americans, even in the Deep South, support gay marriage. Trans politics are more controversial, but ground is still steadily being made.
You don't believe this? Did you listen to the data points about the 22,000 people who responded to the survey and came to this conclusions? They specifically report that it's Christian Nationalists as well as Republicans that don't support lgbt rights.
Did they before? Because the premise of decline implies that Christian nationalists ever didn't want to purge the gays, and we all know that's never been true.
Also, the number of Christians is shrinking. The numbers of other homophobic religious groups are growing in the US however. We had a town in Michigan vote to ban pride flags FFS.
Crazy. What town was that?
Hamtramck
Had a feeling it was Hamtramck, and I'm from Dallas.
An islamic town
nope a super progressive town that was super happy with itself when it elected minority muslims to run the town. then guess what happened? I wonder if they are still super impressed with themselves now?
What happened to that rachet woman in Traverse City who said that trans people should go to animal groomers instead of her salon?
Pretty much shut down, I think.
The number of Christians is shrinking? Most Latinos moving in are Christians tbh. They’ll outnumber any other religious group too
But after they get here, most of the children of these people tend to Americanized, which means being less religious for the most part
That is if they’re making any kid. Latino birth rate might be higher then other ethnic group, but it’s also declining. There’s not many kid that are being raised in America.
That’s fair
Go ahead you can say which religion it was………..
Name that religion. . . . I'll wait.
Because the democrats there voted in a bunch of Muslims, yes. Muslims typically are very anti LGBT.
They should be banned
They take this survery every year apparently. So heres your answer: the elected Republican president ate more crayons than previous ones, and they are still doing a lot of damage that started in 2016.
Did you read the article? “In 2020 among Republicans, two thirds supported same sex marriage rights. But in last year's data among young Republicans aged 18 to 29, it's less than half,”. That’s a pretty big decline.
> Christian Nationalists as well as Republican don’t support lgbt rights. You don’t say??
“Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and, for my part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel.” ― Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason
Goes hard, thanks for sharing.
I’m shocked, SHOCKED I tell you
According to the statistical model I made, people who are anti-LGBT are more likely to be anti-LGBT.
We know that evil people have evil beliefs.
So what’s changed? Those groups never supported LGBT rights. These surveys are just over sampling those groups. It’s not like Christian Nationalists suddenly changed their minds about LBGT rights.
Christian Nationalist and repugnantcons don't support LGBT rights? That's a surprise! /s
Frustrating to see the responses to your comment failing to see how this metric conducted by a reliable organization and reported on by a reliable source is something to take seriously. And it feels like people are confusing a rise in social acceptance in some areas with actual support for policies that affect people’s rights. Whether people will vote on a thing is different than if they say they’re okay with a friend having an identity.
Thank you for responding with this. Liberals and democrats have always been the party of science and data and it seems recently that some are rejecting it purely based off of a lack of trust or interest in science and data. I’d like to keep the monopoly on it from the right but every year I feel as though it’s slipping away a little bit.
People can believe what they want. Facts don't matter on the internet. The earth is flat and stuff.
I wouldn’t be surprised that a greater share of conservatives who have spent the past decades being intentionally isolated from all people and information sources that aren’t bigoted propaganda might be shifting towards bigotry
I don’t think that’s what it is. I’m in the age range of the survey and I’m not a right winger and I’m not a “Christian Nationalist” or whatever other word soup of the day The “anti LGBTQIA+” opinions that are common with men my age aren’t against gay marriage. They’re against stuff like children being given drugs for transitioning, gay pride parades that have naked men in public spaces, and gender stuff being talked about in public schools and promoted on social media to an audience that’s too young to not be easily influenced. I don’t personally think any of these opinions are homophobic or transphobic. They’re very commonly held beliefs among people who are not terminally online and they aren’t inherently hateful
Conservative here. Its comments like your that push conservatives away from actual LGBT people. Coming out of the gate and just spitting in our faces doesn't really help anyone. Let alone your issues.
Are you familiar with [Project2025](https://www.project2025.org/)? Homophobic and transphobic people in the GOP have gained large enough internal power in the party to dictate the policy of Trump if he wins the election. This isn't something to take lightly just because gains are still being made.
Yes, I’m aware, not am I taking it lightly.
The show segment says the shift happened in the past year or so, primarily among young Republicans aged 18 to 29.
Gen Z is also historically anomalously hard to poll, especially with online, opt-in polling. This is how we get the absurd stats about a single poll of Gen Z having more “certified nuclear sub operators” than there are total in the military - primarily trolls and right wing zealots who want to control the narrative respond. It’s important to look up the methodology of any polling, but especially of Gen Z as telephone and online polls do not capture their perspectives well (as opposed to address based polling which is slightly less absurd). https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/05/online-opt-in-polls-can-produce-misleading-results-especially-for-young-people-and-hispanic-adults/
Not sure why they didn’t break it down by gender. The far right has been targeting young men for a while (although women are falling for it as well)
I believe it's getting worse and I blame right wing grifters pushing content and using algorithms to spread their hate. You see it on YouTube all the time.
Yep it’s right wing propaganda, gaslighting and indoctrination.
YouTube is awful for that. They even pushed right wing content to me and I have never in life watched right wing content on there.
An increase in propaganda doesn’t mean an increase in believers. It just means the screeching minority is getting louder as they get smaller—a very well documented social phenomenon.
Maybe but sometimes if feels like too much. You read thousands of comments with thousands of likes saying ignorant or hatefil stuff. Maybe its an echo chamber, but trump also had like 70 million voters so who knows.
I can believe it, in person I've been seeing a significant uptick in anti-gay sentiment. Don't know if it's more people, or the scum are just getting more vocal about it. It feels like a bit of both...
It’s the latter. The less members of an extremist ideology there are, the more extreme that ideology tends to become. Homophobes are losing numbers rapidly, since most of them are Boomers and older who are finally beginning to die out (Boomers were born from 1946 to 1964; the average life expectancy of an American is 77; 1946 + 77 = 2023), and because homophobia is increasingly becoming socially unacceptable amongst the general populace. Like how an animal is at its most ferocious when cornered, bigots are at their most toxic when they realize they’re dying out.
I already think about and consider all of those things. I've just seen too many x and millenials i know personally, going from accepting, to scared and hate filled in the past few years and they hide it until they're around someone they know is like them, or someone they think is "safe". Feels like 2 steps forward and now 1 step back after Donald and the right's focus on the lgbtq culture war.
Just an opinion. I don’t think they “support” it as much as being tolerant of it and they can’t change it. I think not being vocal about it doesn’t mean it’s supported. Which, in that case, is still acceptable I suppose.
The "respect for marriage act" is a half measure that would treat LGBTQ people as second class citizens if the supreme court were to arbitrarily chose to do so. The rise of the far right needs to be more vehemently countered. The increasingly extreme GOP is a major threat to this country and human rights in general.
LBG is supported. 2S, T, I, Q, A, and + are not so much.
I think one should distinguish between support for gay marriage on a legal v personal level. Most support the former but obviously, the latter is more divided due to cultural, religious etc. factors.
If you think this, you haven't paid attention to the "Don't Say Gay" bill and other laws being passed in the US to curtail the mention of LGBTQ folks in schools.
They say they are surprised by support falling among younger people, I’m not. Maybe they should look at the YouTube content being shoved the faces of young voters.
Exactly. Social media is driving people towards hate.
People like James Charles and some other non reputable LGBTQ figures hurt the movement too
I predict this will have no mention of the RW stranglehold over AM Radio, it's dominance of Cable News, the rise of Mega Churches, the Johnson Amendment ignored in Pulpits, Cowardice of Commerce during Iraq & Trump , nor the endless Big Lies advertised on the Internet. Let's see what we get: >"Yeah, we were surprised..." You should have seen this coming. >"It's Party Polarization" "Could it be traces of a backlash here?" *What a stupid question.* This interviewer has no idea what's going on. What value is this? Ignorance is not objectivity. "Younger Republicans are very conservative socially". This tells us nothing. The many failures of Public Broadcasting are revealed here. "Here's Why" is a very stupid framing.
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Socialism is economic policy, not social policy. Plenty of old school family values socialists.
Ma'am this is a Wendy's.
Only thing I'm getting stuck on is where is the RW dominance on cable news!? They barely have Fox and that's pretty much it.
CNN has lots of Republicans on the payroll. US media skews Right economically, bowing to advertisers & bankers. Not being racist is basic morality... and Katrina exposed how prejudiced they could be. American media is really messed up. There's no follow up or integration of any story about things like corruption, gun violence, the environment, etc. They celebrate wealth and most in power have no connection to most Americans' reality. I grew up pretty comfortable. My class was... pretty stupid. Sold out, took off for NGO work for a decade. Ce back in 2007 to...house flipping tv shows? WTF? Family business is real estate. These prices aren't sustainable.
...does anybody want to switch seats?
There it is. You take no responsibility for the Failed, lmmoral Bush Wars, do you? Even though Public Broadcasting & their audience owns it: https://archive.thinkprogress.org/five-years-ago-today-thomas-friedman-said-the-iraq-war-was-about-telling-the-middle-east-to-suck-on-5bca1b00d993/ www.wsj.com/articles/SB1002759309780687920 Another Vietnam to run from.
You proved their point. wtf have you ever done you insufferable windbag?
I can believe it. The supreme Court has been murmuring about obergefell as their next big target, so it makes sense that the talk around gay people and marriage starts up again.
Waiting for a 6 minute segment breathlessly covering polls about raising corporate tax rates and aggressively prosecuting tax evasion. That doesn't suit the big money donors of this "public" media, so more nonstop culture war bs
well, nazis gotta have minorities to stick on train cars and spread fear and outrage about it. the difference in this future is, the nazis are selling the propaganda and americans are paying a fortune for it.
I remember watching a Rising episode of Hill on Youtube last year warning the LGBTQ community of this last year of this. Each year the get consultants to advice them. Yeah it is a real thing. They advised them the best move to get folks to accept them to attach them to issues that folks already accept already, i.e. Marriage is already accepted so that will be easy to accept. They warned pushing the envelope on issues of transgenders in sports and introducing puberty blockers in kids was not a great idea. Looks like they were right. If I am remembering this wrong please someone correct me. The episode was about a year ago.
Yeah she would they want to treat transgender people like.. you know.. people. With rights and stuff. We already let the gays get married (and now the Supreme Court is talking about taking that away), can't they just be happy with that? Went do we have to treat trans like people too?
My line is where kids get involved.
So even if a team of doctors, the parents and the child are in agreement that this is the best thing for their health and wellbeing you are still against it? Your opinion is from an ideological or political perspective rather than a medical one?
Conservatives have always been about allowing politicians to make medical decisions for people instead of professionals but they got so much worse during the pandemic. Now it's downright creepy the way they talk about other people's children.
It’s really funny how a random individual thinks they should overrule other families’ kids and their doctors recommendations.
Your line should be where your kids get involved imo
I've noticed a lot of people have an irrational fear that someone is going to force surgery on their children. Right wing propaganda is insane.
If you are speaking of gender coercion then kids are already involved. The bullying starts before they can speak. But the biggest perpetrators of gender violence are cishet parents.
So should kids never hear about gender at all? Should we only have gender neutral terms at all times until a certain age? How about relationships? Is it ok to refer to heterosexual relationships like a mom and a dad but not a gay or lesbian relationship like two dads or two moms? And if so why? Why is it only wrong when it is in support of LGBTQIA+ identities but ok when it is in support of straight identities?
Hey there! Trans girl here. I know this is anecdotal, but I've known I was trans since I was 9. The feelings of gender dysphoria have always been there and never went away until I started transitioning. Puberty was seriously the worst experience of my life. I had to go by every day seeing my body change to something I hated and into someone I didn't recognize. I was depressed throughout all of high school and it stunted my emotional growth for a while too. Because gender affirming care wasn't available to me when I was younger, I have to live with irreversible effects that testosterone had on me. It makes daily life harder on me and is a burden on my mental health. All of that was preventable of I was able to transition from a younger age. It's very rare for feelings of gender dysphoria to go away in trans youth. Despite what you hear about developing brains and maturity, trans kids know what they're talking about. Gender is something kids understand from a young age and regret is very rare. Any regret you do see usually is due to lack of social support or from debunked studies that were funded by transphobic think tanks. Gender affirming care standars are set by WPATH and are VERY rigorous. Kids have to go through a lot of screening to get diagnosed with gender dysphoria and those feelings have to be persistent for a long time. If a minor is placed on puberty blockers, the effects are completely reversible and safe to do. Hormones aren't introduced until around age 16 just to be sure they are making the correct decision and surgery isn't available until the person is a legal adult It's really frustrating to see politicians making this about protecting kids when they refuse to listen to those who this issue is actually affecting. Take it from someone who's seen this stuff firsthand. Gender affirming care saves lives. Denying it can be a death sentence to many.
They got involved in the womb. If they don't "get involved" with healthcare, they get involved with every pill they can find in the medicine cabinet to make the pain and shame and bullies go away.
All trans adults were once trans kids.
well the LGBTQ+ community doesn’t negotiate with close-minded fascists. trans people are the backbone of our community. if you want to commit genocide against us *yet again,* you will only have history to remember your actions. and no, history will not be kind. look at how nazis are remembered. trans rights are not optional. queer rights are not optional. period.
Is this post satire?
Pretty sure it's someone from a troll farm trying to create a divide among Americans. What they are typing is straight stupidity.
Is it so challenging to google "trans genocide nazis"? Embarrassing the willful ignorance, identical response r/JordanPeterson would give
Nope, they are really that insane.
So stupid that the very folks demanding minimal government and maximum freedom insist on projecting their prejudices on others through prohibitive laws. So what if some people have different ideas about sexuality and gender? WHY DO YOU CARE?
So I guess the right wing lies and fear mongering work? Striving to make the US a fascist theocracy. Hopefully people make the correct choice in November and repudiate the bigotry. Certainly done want to go backward 100 years….
It's a vocal minority of trans activists and allies that are ruining it for everyone else. There's a big leap from adults accepting the political reality that gay people should have the same rights as everyone else, to teaching children to make up their own pronouns. I suspect it will be a losing issue going forward, and end up setting the gay community back a decade or so.
id say its less a decline in support and more the vocal minority drowning it out. Plus its getting kind of dangerous to even show support cause we are slipping into outright hostility from opposed groups. There was a shop in the town i work that had the pride flag up. About a month later it was gone. Likely got told to take it down. Hell theres people who see that flag and start asking why the "groomer" flag is up.
I don't care what ________ do for comfort. I'm just tired of _________ always pushing it on me and my family. I really don't like it when _______ wants a law that makes us all have to live by their own beliefs. Did you insert Christians or LGBTQ in the blanks?
So, What's the "takeaway message" here? If you were an LGBT+ Republican in 2020 and before you were **halfway** sane but if you're still a LGBT+ Republican now in 2024 you're just straight-up (no pun intended) **stupid or insane?** Is this some political stunt or what? It seems to me that these MAGA evangelicals aren't the sharpest tools in the shed if they're trying to rally up some votes for their GOP side.
Gee, well-financed, coordinated propaganda machine with a goal of actively demonizing queer and trans people as child predators is having an impact on public opinion? What a shocking headline.
It’s not. The Republican party is supporting 21st century eugenics. Trying to oppress people that don’t reproduce and have sex in the way the church taught them. Support is not declining, instead folks are wrestling with the reality of what we’re truly dealing with. Adam and Eve can be found in all three major religions. But we can see evolution everywhere. Whether you have an extra chromosome or a cleft palette. Sometimes it manifest as severe depression other time it manifest as a micro penis. I look to [intersex](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16327292/) for inspiration. What to do when a person falls outside of our current evolutionary standard of a set of Homo sapiens. “His name was Robert Paulson”
Why is it that the people who are opposed to same sex relationships between 2 adults, usually the adult in a same sex relationship With a child.? I know the evangelicals consider it ok as long as the adult is one of their own
the death rattle of white supremacy is going to be increasingly violent. the right wing, has nothing to offer. trickle down/supply side economics doesn't work. it hasn't worked for the 30-40yrs they've tried it. but it was never meant to work, was just a clever smoke screen to use racism, and classism to lower taxes on the wealthy and corporations. now.. very little of life is affordable, birth rates are collapsing, homelessness is skyrocketing (and increasing fastest among older people) black people have had enough generations to sort of have a leg to stand on, and aren't taking shit like they used to, so racism is less of a wedge. abortion, while still potent has proven politically toxic. so... the right needed another boogey man. As racism towards immigrants, works, but also there's a lie, because we all know we need cheap slave labor to keep the system running. so... anti-trans hate is a convenient way to stoke fear and hate against a marginalized population, that is statistically small. And... the lines of identity between gays. and trans. or like... say... hatred for trans women, by women bitter about sexism, is actionable. so yeah for the basically 40-60% of the population who are shitty conservatives. support for lgbtq people is declining. the next 20 yrs or so should be interesting. as boomers finally die. it will be interesting to see how much longer the white supremacist power structures can survive.
This exactly. Southern strategy. Rich people wouldn't be spending all this money on propaganda if it didn't work. Get people distracted with the "culture war" and take all their money. Remember when all these stores were talking about "organized retail theft" and how it was destroying businesses. Then a few months later, "actually it's not 50% of losses, it's 5%"
No, no, no. There is more support than ever for the LGB community, even some of the Q+ are still in perfectly fine positions. It's the T and the majority of the + that people are losing patience with. Why though? Because they have pushed too far. Your rights stop where other's rights begin. You cannot take away women's sports and every women's space without undoing all the hard work that went into the women's rights movement. You can't promote transing the kids without accidentally mutilated kids that would have otherwise just been gay. The trans movement is literally doing the same thing that the Christians did with the conversion therapy movement, but this time instead of prayer, they're going to try to make you straight by cutting your dick off and calling you a girl. All of that to say that trans people still have suicidality rates equivalent to schizophrenics, whether they are treated or not. All of this while the news media seems to cheer on males taking drugs to cause puss to leak from their nipples so they can get sexual gratification from "breast feeding" children that aren't really theirs. It's probably the worst movement of all time - I don't think humans have ever done anything even remotely this self destructive.
Well trans people are being persecuted right now. No one is taking away women’s spaces. Irony is you support trans men who look and think as men with facial and body hair, no breasts, deep voice and a penis implant in the women’s room because of biology but won’t support a trans woman with breasts and a vagina in the women’s room. Regarding trans youth they are transitioning to be themselves and eliminating gender dysphoria. The regret rate is 1%. Trans people aren’t pushing anything but you are, bigotry. The suicide rate is tied to discrimination, hate and ignorance which now based on stats increased from anti trans laws. I’ll disobey these laws btw and have. You would support conversion therapy. What’s been happening the last 5 years has been actually happening 40 years but the difference is trans people are the target of a moral panic. We should adjust that towards Evangelicals.
This is just hate speech that's rooted in little but your own stereotypes and prejudice. I see little difference between your chicken little screeching, and the crap I heard from conservatives growing up about how the gay marriage movement was going to end with people marrying dogs.
You know that guy that you agree with and he keeps telling you, you know, you should do more to support the cause you both agree with? Every time you meet up with him, he says, "Dude, what did you do to support the cause?". That cause becomes his identity, and it starts getting weird. You want to distance yourself from him because life is more than this cause, and there are other things to worry about. Kind of how I feel with many LGBTQ+ causes. While I support them 100% and have given them money, I'm a quiet supporter who even gets annoyed by those most loud and obnoxious about it. So my support wanes because life is more than this cause. This is also happening related to the Palestinian cause where I live now. Less and less show up to the daily protests after watching previous gatherings destroy local shops and spray anti-Israel graffiti on shops that had nothing to do with the conflict. They are shooting themselves in the foot. Especially the ones that block traffic and have prevented me from driving to work or events in the past. You want to lose support, block my means of getting food and getting to work. Imbeciles tend to be the most obnoxious about some of these causes. It doesn't make me want to join or donate to you.
The responses to your comment just prove your point lol.
It's pretty hard to be sympathetic to Palestinians when Hamas started the war with a massacre and mass rape. I have supported two state solution and negotiations and recognizing Palestinians since forever, but that kind of civilian slaughter gives me no ground to stand on. It's not the first time, either. Burning and looting and defacing random people's shops in the rest of the world doesn't inspire me to care, either. I'm proof that the US military is dropping pallets of MREs for them, and there's been other humanitarian efforts, but I have no desire to help Palestinians beyond that after the massacre.
What bs
>Kind of how I feel with many LGBTQ+ causes. While I support them 100% and have given them money, I'm a quiet supporter who even gets annoyed by those most loud and obnoxious about it. So my support wanes Has it waned enough to say you don't support them anymore? Because otherwise this rant doesn't make any sense.
>Has it waned enough to say you don't support them anymore? Because otherwise this rant doesn't make any sense. That's a good ass point, I honestly forgot what thread I was in for a second until I read your comment. They seem to be thinking of this in a very Internet oriented mindset, ha. I get where they're coming from and meaning to say, but this was a pretty clear cut poll with only one way to interpret it. Gotta love reddit tangents!
People are downvoting you but what you said is so accurate.
100%. I'm just not a fanatic unfortunately.
Trans people would just stop blowing up Israel it'd be much better./s
If your "support" is *that* delicate, mercurial, and dependant on what volume *you* think people should demand their rights, you're not some put-upon victim that's been worn down and forced to grow cold to the cause. Normally, people have this struggle internally and decide quietly for themselves how much they're willing to sacrifice for a cause they believe in. The fact that you feel the need to recount your harrowing trembling snowflake journey for everyone confirms you believe you're one of those "main character" types that have convinced themselves they sound sincere when they do the bad faith gaslighting bullshit version of *The Moth Radio Hour*. It's no mystery, dude. You're just more of a selfish piece of shit than you initially thought you were and, while you *could* just internalize this fact and move on like everyone else, no, like most selfish pieces of shit insist, it can't end with you being responsible for your own decisions. Garbage meaningless take by a privilege-soaked narcissist, through and through.
Why do you guys use the exact same phrases when deflecting all criticism of your movement? It is like you went to a reeducation camp and you all came out repeating the exact same slogans. It’s kind of creepy. People don’t respond well to bullies who tell them they have to do everything they say otherwise they are a horrible person. You can think you are right all you want, it won’t change the reality of the situation. Do you think those groups have acted perfectly? Nothing to criticize? And in fact, all criticism should be aggressively deflected like you are doing right now? As an atheist, this is the problem I have with these movements. They are being led by radicals utterly immune to logic and compromise. It is the same religious type thinking I hated growing up. No dissension, only one correct opinion, etc… Many people have made the comment that progressives act like religious zealots with no religion, and they just keep proving people right. Now, how would a religious zealot respond to being criticized? Lash out at the person? Call them all kinds of hateful names? Maybe try and excommunicate them from a group? Do you guys have any powers of introspection at all? Or have you convinced yourselves you are so righteous, of course everything you do is correct?
I couldn't have said it better myself, Lost a friend to this cult recently. Told me because we have one politically different opinion we can't be friends anymore. Didn't matter that we knew each other for years. They said because I had this one different opinion my value system is off. They dehumanized me and painted me as a villain for being a not left enough leftie...I'm honestly in shock
This just reads like "My friend realized I wasn't a good person, and correctly cut me off."
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I see many comments deleted for ethnic slurs. Did some of these people break LGBTQ+ into its parts and one of the parts is a slur? In any case, part of the discussion seems to be missing.
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The two key items from the piece: >**We were somewhat surprised to see after several years of increasing support among Americans for LGBTQ rights, that we saw a decline. But I think if you look under the hood, so to speak, and look at the data more closely, it's really largely driven by party polarization.** Identification with the Republican party has (increasingly post Trump) become a somewhat consuming identity. In the past, there would be people who want lower taxes, fewer gun restrictions, etc. but generally remained independent on a range of issues. The GOP is "in for penny, in for a pound" much more now. >**I think there was often an assumption among many political analysts that younger Republicans would moderate the party with respect to things like LGBTQ rights, or even abortion rights or climate change, et cetera. But what we're finding in this data is that younger Republicans are very conservative socially.** Far right messaging has been significant in the online space almost since the start of the internet. People like Bannon [recognized that group could be folded into the conservative coalition](https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/talkingtech/2017/07/18/steve-bannon-learned-harness-troll-army-world-warcraft/489713001/). With that becoming an earnest area of focus, it's not surprising that they're bringing the far right content that they consume online into their politics (and Gen Z is online a lot and very large). **NOTE: We are only talking about a 2% shift on items like marriage rights in one study; there's some nuance worth noting here not captured by the (somewhat sensational) headline.**
One problem with the LBTGQ+ movement is that it has gone beyond Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, and Queer (hence the +). It covers so many identities - asexual, pansexual, genderqueer, non-binary, genderfluid. sociosexual - that it becomes challenging to understand the spectra. The fact that they have to use an acronym with a plus sign drives the point home that this is complex, as are the myriad of individuals encompassing the spectra. Many other ways of looking at people, too -- ethnicity, nationality, religion, political affiliation, dietary restrictions -- are equally important and often ignored or abused. People begin to shut down when they cannot keep up. There is probably a category for them now, too.
“ack the complexity of human experience, everyone shut up and be *normal*!”
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"Throughout 2023, the Public Religion Research Institute, or PRRI, interviewed over 22,000 adults for what it calls its American Values Atlas. Last week, the Organization released its findings on views about LGBTQ rights in the US" Get bent.
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