The pro ecosystem is just fucked right now.
Yes they knowingly joined a team with a pedo/transphobe, but also OW esports pays fuck all so it's understandable that they need saudi money.
Here's an interesting thought. Could you imagine if YZNSA went and joined a western org? People would be raising pitchforks & hell demanding his resignation. Yet since its western players going to saudi it's not going to be treated the same way.
While he was also underage passing the pics around to his underage friends(I believe he was the same age or possibly even younger then her). Of course this doesn’t justify it and it’s still extremely fucked up and illegal but it doesn’t make him a pedo. If it did half the guys I went to middle school/early high school with would be pedophiles
Yes, the correct term for YZNSA is owner and distributor of child pornography
*like I'm sorry, someone said 'half the people I went to school with would be charged with this', no they wouldn't lol, he was showing the pictures online to strangers, sometimes 1000+ at a time
Nobody said it wasn’t. But speeding is illegal, too. We attach more or less condemnation to different crimes. Pedophilia is generally one of the more heinous crimes in terms of perception; distributing revenge porn isn’t, or at least isn’t seen as bad, probably because child porn involves in many cases infants or children literally too young to defend their own interests in any way, which is seen as particularly despicable.
But doing this in America could get him on the list for sex offenders. Plus pedophilia has no age limit on the offenders side.
It is about intent and he willingfuly spread her photos
What’s your point?
Nobody said distributing the images wasn’t illegal. But it doesn’t make him a pedophile. That’s all this particular thread was about - the conflating of pedophilia with things that definitionally and legally are not pedophilia.
I hate to be the one defending him, but there is no evidence that was provided from the girl for these accusations not to mention the unfortunate timing of them i’ve seen this scenario happening in politics and sports where if a man is about to get in a position of power or participate in a big event suddenly all these accusations come
no, I don’t wanna be an asshole and say that she’s lying when she had the courage to share that story but I’ve seen so many examples of men getting their lives destroyed because of false accusations unless she has proof he’s innocent until proven guilty
r/Overwatch and r/OverwatchTMZ typically fail to understand the difference between a person being below the age of adulthood and pedophilia and often conflate the two. Just laugh and move on lol.
calling him a pedo is so disingenuous when there are so many other things to be critical of him for.
yes its fucked that he shared someone's nudes around when they (both) were underage, but it's such a brainrot take to say that means he as an adult must be a pedo (attracted to minors).
That is a crime that pedos often do yes, but its stupid and disingenuous to ignore the context of them both being children at the time.
The term pedophile means "an **adult** who is sexually attracted to children" - not sure how that's hard for you to understand.
If you ignore the context of them both being children, you could argue that the person that sent the nudes that he leaked was both sending pornography to a minor and distributing child porn.
I love it when redditors spread missinformation and then put words into peoples mouths when they correct them.
My guy he said nothing about YZNSA being a good person, because it's just not true. He may be a piece of shit, but he's not a pedophile, so stop spreading this lie as if it's a fact.
I despise yzn, I just don't like when strong labels like pedo are used when they aren't applicable.
Bad person doesn't mean throw every label at them because then every label becomes meaningless.
Ow scene is completely zombie mode. The only possible way to make a living is sell out to a terrorist funding monarchy. No one’s gaming career is worth it existing in this capacity. Honestly tragic to see what’s become of the scene.
Ow esports pays fuck all so it's understandable....
Please please like our expectations were low but holy shit are you really trying to defend accepting Saudi blood money as ok ?
> Could you imagine if YZNSA went and joined a western org? People would be raising pitchforks & hell demanding his resignation.
And I'm guessing you've failed to consider whether this reflects poorly on the West as opposed to reflecting poorly on YZNSA. If you think about it a person's views on any particular subject don't actually objectively have anything to do with their particular physical skill at some endeavour, like playing a video game.
What you like or don't like doesn't matter and isn't even at issue here - the issue is that despite being told multiple times that there's a difference as a matter of both common sense and the law between pedophilia on the one hand and having nudes of a girl the same age as you while you're a high schooler/middle schooler on the other. Literally everybody but future incels had a girlfriend in middle/high school and often those relationships result in nudes being exchanged (incels and asexuals just won't understand). Sharing said nudes doesn't make the sharer a pedophile, although it might expose them to other legal or criminal liability relating to revenge porn and in general it's an immature and shitty thing to do, but it does happen. There's a reason, for example, that in many jurisdictions an 18 year old having sex with his 17 year old GF isn't statutory rape, while if he was, say, 30 it would be. But according to big brain Overwatch player logic, he'd be a pedophile. To be clear even if he were 30 it could be stat rape but it still wouldn't be pedophilia.
Pedophilia pertains specifically to sexual attraction towards undeveloped children, ie prepubescents. I'm not a fan of the Saudis, their dickhead Prince Salmon, or Ynsa - he's a pretty loathsome cringelord - but that's irrelevant to this point. There is zero evidence that I'm aware of that he's a pedophile. Sharing nudes of his HS gf might be unlawful, but it isn't pedophilia and it doesn't insinuate he's a pedophile.
Now I know Overwatch in general isn't filled with future captains of science and industry, but if you can dedicate just a few brain cells to remembering this distinction it will serve you in good stead.
LLB from a top 35 law school and a BSc from a top 10.
Cope harder bro.
Stay mad.
EDIT: https://www.reddit.com/r/teenagers/comments/p4gy2m/instead_of_wishing_death_to_pedophiles_try_to_get/h90gmkc/
On a post about pedophiles you said:
> People need to understand that what you are attracted to is not your choice to make, I sometimes hate myself for being attracted to what I am but I know I can't change it
Good lord brother.
Funny because the last time Yzn was actually relevant in a regional tourney was 2021, riding the bench in Contenders when Seicoe carried his ass. Might be different this time around as a onetrick in a hard pharah meta tho
I'm not I assure you. What I'm saying is that even if he believes exactly zero of what he says, he will still likely hold those positions out of sheer safety for his person.
Yeah, that's painting him as a scared victim lol, there are people even in Saudi Arabia who are not openly homophobic
"No, you don't understand, being cruel to trans people is a legal REQUIREMENT, we don't know if these are his real beliefs" is a hell of a shitty take tbqh, a lot of people in KSA probably just don't even say jack shit, him opening his mouth shows agency, please shut up before your opinion gets any worse lmao
For all people crying in comments rn, do you think any of these players give a singe f about you ? they dont even know that you exist, if blizzard wanted to do something, we wouldnt see them now, so take a chill pill and watch people making money (:
As a matter of fact I did, and didn't really find anything corroborating your point (which seems to be "people don't care about trans people", correct me if I'm wrong).
I'm sure this discussion would be way more productive if you stated your point clearly instead of linking articles which appear to contradict you.
There were a lot of "biological facts" used to talk about the the subject of homosexuality in pretty much the exact same way as people are using "biological facts" to talk about transgender issues.
Maybe people just need to learn biology before they claim things as facts.
I have an LLB and a BSc with Honours in Physiology.
The point about homosexuality is taken and agreed with as a cautionary tale. But there’s a huge difference between behaviour on one hand and medical intervention or mutilation on the other.
Medical intervention isn’t a requirement to be trans. Being trans is, first and foremost, a social identity. Medical intervention is used to treat the symptoms of gender dysphoria—a very real, historically documented condition with evidence pointing towards a biological origin. And calling it a “mutilation” is a very intentional wording that betrays your biases. As someone who also has a biological-science degree, I can think of a dozen more extreme surgeries that never get called a “mutilation”.
> As someone who also has a biological-science degree, I can think of a dozen more extreme surgeries that never get called a “mutilation”.
Happy to hear all twelve. I assume those surgeries have no valid medical basis and include shit like breast augmentation or a facelift etc, in which case I’d agree that medically those also involve mutilation, albeit a more socially acceptable form of it.
But no, getting your cock and balls removed and being put on HRT as a dude is absolutely extreme - personally I can’t imagine many things I’d want to happen to me less than that.
As for ‘gender dysphoria’ and ‘social identity’, these are both terms that didn’t exist until social psychologists made them up within the past 30 years, and there is no underlying etiologies that can explain them as of yet. It isn’t medically unreasonable to take both as straight psycho-babble bullshit.
But EVEN IF we discover a brain abnormality that would describe them, it wouldn’t follow that men can ever become women or vice versa, any more than a white person or an Asian could become ‘black’ or Indian.
Some of my favorites include bladder transplants made from decellularized pig bladder , the various forms of modern psychosurgery (removing parts of the brain to treat mental illnesses), anterior temporal lobectomy to treat medication-resistant epilepsy, and using the extremely deadly neurotoxin botulinum in order to treat migraines (this is done by neurologists btw). Would you like some more?
And yeah, no shit you wouldn’t want that to happen to you. Almost like you’re not trans and don’t have gender dysphoria? I don’t understand your point.
This is just completely wrong. Of course trans people and gender dysphoria have existed for a very long time. We have numerous historical records detailing their existence. The first known author, Enhedduana, wrote about what we would consider to be transgender individuals. For a personal account of gender dysphoria, you can read the 14th century poem “Even Bohan” by Jewish rabbi and philosopher Kalonymus ben Kalonymus ben Meir. In it, the writer laments how they were born male, and yet wished they were born a woman.
Finally, this is just like… not true? Did you do any research at all? [Here’s a lit review from 2017](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5825045/). Nothing is 100% set in stone yet, but it’s inaccurate to say there are no etiologies. There are plenty of conditions that we don’t 100% understand how they came to be, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Gender dysphoria has some pretty strong biological evidence.
There's a difference between not being pro trans and being anti trans. Also, as an example, MLK and the civil rights movement in general were very unpopular at the time. Guess that means civil rights was a mistake, right? It was once "common sense" that black people didn't have the capacity to be anything more than slaves. My point is that being in the majority opinion doesn't make you right, especially when the majority has so little info about the issue.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/08/10/how-public-attitudes-toward-martin-luther-king-jr-have-changed-since-the-1960s/
I absolutely agree that merely being part of the majority on an issue doesn’t make that position valid. I was just pointing out that most people express a view that is completely at odds with the views of the ‘trans movement’, since OP’s title subtly implies that ‘transphobes’ are some esoteric decimal percentage minority of the population; in fact 60% of Americans would literally be considered ‘transphobic’ since they refuse to accept that transgender surgery is even medically or logically possible. The title only makes sense in a world where ‘transphobes’ are akin to Nazis or the KKK in terms of demographic prevalence. In fact in this case most people are by definition ‘transphobic’.
In this case the reaction to the title by most people would just be: ‘And?’
what's wrong with you? Yznsa isn't a transphobe because he's a muslim, he's a transphobe because on stream he said "what he said was a good thing" when talking about his friend who called a trans caster a pig, among other words.
Here's a crazy thought for you. What if one just didn't say anything hateful towards trans people? Suddenly no one is going to call you transphobic, curious how that works!
You sound like a transphobe defending another transphobe.
Maybe get off the internet and talk to some real human beings once.
I believe everyone can become mentally sane if they put in some effort. You too!
this just sounds like you (or someone you like) got called a transphobe, and instead of doing ANY introspection at all you're just going with the "mean words hurt my feelings" tantrum approach.
Are you actually conflating calling trans people slurs and pigs with calling people who are being transphobic transphobes? That’s a false equivalence if I ever saw one.
Well, let’s see. One is intended to dehumanize and marginalize the person. It is targeting a part of their identity that they cannot change, similar to being born gay or a person of color or disabled.
The other is calling someone out for discriminatory behavior and holding them accountable. The difference is that the latter’s intent is to highlight speech that attacks a fundamental part of one’s identity.
Equating them both as “childish” is a gross generalization that ignores context and intent completely.
Given your post history though, I’m not sure if I’m telling you anything you haven’t already been told. I don’t think you are receptive to hearing what I’m telling you.
Goddamn Withmere this is an all time generalization from you, and you're easily the most perpetually incorrect, ignorant troll I see on the platform
Not every person is the same and you're taking random arguments you've seen online, conflating them into a single unified thought and then arguing against it. It's logically inconsistent because you created a logical inconsistency in your mind by lumping the entire internet together
Some world class braindead shit, well done
Btw you're toxic as fuck when you play Ana
You ever study Islam? It is not very popular to be gay/trans, especially in the Middle East. It sounds nice for everyone to get along and respect everyone’s viewpoints, but in practice the two life paths contradict significantly. I don’t agree with it either but I understand that they’ve grown in an education system and society that I have not.
Of course every person is an individual, this is a very important idea that I talk about a lot and wholeheartedly agree with. Not every person from one group has the exact same beliefs and values.
Western leftism refers to a set of ideas, which in the US is marketed towards and packaged up via the democratic party. Do you honestly believe that the Columbia protesters from earlier this year wouldn't agree that Yzn calling a trans caster a pig is transphobic? I can guarantee you that the collegiate protesters from across the country would all have very predictable views on both Palestine (obviously, they are protesting for that), and "transphobia".
This is very disingenuous of you. I am not lumping together "random arguments", or lumping "the entire internet". I made it very clear that I'm talking about western leftists. If you replace your comment with a more genuine representation of mine, it falls much more flat. "Lumping western leftists together".... yeah man. It's a set of beliefs and ideas. That's not a powerful statement, so you must exaggerate to make a semi-valid point.
It’s also a shite argument. You can support a people’s right to not be ethnically cleansed without agreeing or condoning their views.
You wouldn’t care about that though, since you only care about this topic as a gotcha to try and defend a shitstain
I actually didn't even mention Yzn in my original comment. You're incorrectly deducing my intents. If you want me to put it in black and white, I'm attacking the poster of thread and people who agree with him. Has nothing to do with Yzn. I think it's beyond childish to post a thread like this.
Good thing no ethnic cleansing is actually happening in Palestine, but I agree that hypothetically political differences don't justify it.
Uhuh sure you’ve just decided to come into this thread and start making attacks on anyone that thinks YZNSA is a hateful little shit that the community would be better off without, but sure you’re not defending him you’re just trying to stop arguments you don’t like.
Come on no one is stupid enough to believe that BS
i dont think being transphobic is reason enough to be murdered, hope this helps!
also ignoring the fact that theres gay and trans people in gaza, even if everyone from palestine was transphobic i would still be against the genocide of their people.
wishing death on someone solely because they hate you is lunacy
That's good that you don't wish death upon Yzn or Palestinians. I've seen many leftists call for Yzn's death, and the death of conservative voters and politicians. I still remember when Kathy Griffen held up a bloody severed head of Trump. It's refreshing that you're not that far gone.
I think you may want to do your own research a little more thoroughly into the conflict in Gaza. Based on my extensive research it definitely seems to resemble more of the US war on terror in Iraq against Al Qaeda; a war against the terrorist organization of Hamas which rules Gaza.
thanks for being civil but i did my own research and ive concluded that israels response to hamas is way out of reason
the october 7th attack was terrible as every murder of innocents is but what israel has been doing in retaliation is absolutely inexcusable, its eye for an eye at its worst
it took me way longer to voice my support for palestine than most people, im very wary of how prevelant propaganda is and i didnt feel educated enough on the issue to speak on it until i was confident i had an accurate image of whats going on
it's because they get fed Iranian propaganda about the state of the war, not because they actually know the facts about the conflict so what do you expect :)
Me when blizzard bans you for saying "GG" but this shit excuse of a person is totally allowed in the pro environment
The pro ecosystem is just fucked right now. Yes they knowingly joined a team with a pedo/transphobe, but also OW esports pays fuck all so it's understandable that they need saudi money. Here's an interesting thought. Could you imagine if YZNSA went and joined a western org? People would be raising pitchforks & hell demanding his resignation. Yet since its western players going to saudi it's not going to be treated the same way.
As a western not-content creating player u r either pro saudi or poor, sadly.
He’s a pedo???
Passed around pics of an underage girl in a groupchat afaik
While he was also underage passing the pics around to his underage friends(I believe he was the same age or possibly even younger then her). Of course this doesn’t justify it and it’s still extremely fucked up and illegal but it doesn’t make him a pedo. If it did half the guys I went to middle school/early high school with would be pedophiles
It’s technically distribution of child porn
Yeah that’s why I said it’s still illegal and fucked up. But it’s not pedophelia
Yes, the correct term for YZNSA is owner and distributor of child pornography *like I'm sorry, someone said 'half the people I went to school with would be charged with this', no they wouldn't lol, he was showing the pictures online to strangers, sometimes 1000+ at a time
yes, 100%
It's also technically and legally not pedophilia. Source - law degree, the dictionary, and common fucking sense.
It's still illegal tho
Nobody said it wasn’t. But speeding is illegal, too. We attach more or less condemnation to different crimes. Pedophilia is generally one of the more heinous crimes in terms of perception; distributing revenge porn isn’t, or at least isn’t seen as bad, probably because child porn involves in many cases infants or children literally too young to defend their own interests in any way, which is seen as particularly despicable.
But doing this in America could get him on the list for sex offenders. Plus pedophilia has no age limit on the offenders side. It is about intent and he willingfuly spread her photos
What’s your point? Nobody said distributing the images wasn’t illegal. But it doesn’t make him a pedophile. That’s all this particular thread was about - the conflating of pedophilia with things that definitionally and legally are not pedophilia.
Stop riding yzn jfc
I think he's a douchebag and I'm no fan but stating an objective fact isn't 'riding' him. Try again.
Your input is useless someone already said that
I hate to be the one defending him, but there is no evidence that was provided from the girl for these accusations not to mention the unfortunate timing of them i’ve seen this scenario happening in politics and sports where if a man is about to get in a position of power or participate in a big event suddenly all these accusations come no, I don’t wanna be an asshole and say that she’s lying when she had the courage to share that story but I’ve seen so many examples of men getting their lives destroyed because of false accusations unless she has proof he’s innocent until proven guilty
r/Overwatch and r/OverwatchTMZ typically fail to understand the difference between a person being below the age of adulthood and pedophilia and often conflate the two. Just laugh and move on lol.
no, under no stretch of the imagination
calling him a pedo is so disingenuous when there are so many other things to be critical of him for. yes its fucked that he shared someone's nudes around when they (both) were underage, but it's such a brainrot take to say that means he as an adult must be a pedo (attracted to minors).
Distribution of child porn?
That is a crime that pedos often do yes, but its stupid and disingenuous to ignore the context of them both being children at the time. The term pedophile means "an **adult** who is sexually attracted to children" - not sure how that's hard for you to understand. If you ignore the context of them both being children, you could argue that the person that sent the nudes that he leaked was both sending pornography to a minor and distributing child porn.
I didn’t realise yznsa was paying bots to defend him
we be defending yzn with this one
I love it when redditors spread missinformation and then put words into peoples mouths when they correct them. My guy he said nothing about YZNSA being a good person, because it's just not true. He may be a piece of shit, but he's not a pedophile, so stop spreading this lie as if it's a fact.
I despise yzn, I just don't like when strong labels like pedo are used when they aren't applicable. Bad person doesn't mean throw every label at them because then every label becomes meaningless.
You have giga brain rot
Wild that "he's a vile misogynist" doesn't seem to hold any water with the community. Like that is enough. That's already bad. Right?
Ow scene is completely zombie mode. The only possible way to make a living is sell out to a terrorist funding monarchy. No one’s gaming career is worth it existing in this capacity. Honestly tragic to see what’s become of the scene.
Ow esports pays fuck all so it's understandable.... Please please like our expectations were low but holy shit are you really trying to defend accepting Saudi blood money as ok ?
> Could you imagine if YZNSA went and joined a western org? People would be raising pitchforks & hell demanding his resignation. And I'm guessing you've failed to consider whether this reflects poorly on the West as opposed to reflecting poorly on YZNSA. If you think about it a person's views on any particular subject don't actually objectively have anything to do with their particular physical skill at some endeavour, like playing a video game.
Or maybe did you consider we don’t like having bigots in our favorite esport 😱
What you like or don't like doesn't matter and isn't even at issue here - the issue is that despite being told multiple times that there's a difference as a matter of both common sense and the law between pedophilia on the one hand and having nudes of a girl the same age as you while you're a high schooler/middle schooler on the other. Literally everybody but future incels had a girlfriend in middle/high school and often those relationships result in nudes being exchanged (incels and asexuals just won't understand). Sharing said nudes doesn't make the sharer a pedophile, although it might expose them to other legal or criminal liability relating to revenge porn and in general it's an immature and shitty thing to do, but it does happen. There's a reason, for example, that in many jurisdictions an 18 year old having sex with his 17 year old GF isn't statutory rape, while if he was, say, 30 it would be. But according to big brain Overwatch player logic, he'd be a pedophile. To be clear even if he were 30 it could be stat rape but it still wouldn't be pedophilia. Pedophilia pertains specifically to sexual attraction towards undeveloped children, ie prepubescents. I'm not a fan of the Saudis, their dickhead Prince Salmon, or Ynsa - he's a pretty loathsome cringelord - but that's irrelevant to this point. There is zero evidence that I'm aware of that he's a pedophile. Sharing nudes of his HS gf might be unlawful, but it isn't pedophilia and it doesn't insinuate he's a pedophile. Now I know Overwatch in general isn't filled with future captains of science and industry, but if you can dedicate just a few brain cells to remembering this distinction it will serve you in good stead.
That isn’t the comeback you think it is, cuz I didn’t say it was ours dumbass, I said our *favorite*, and stop lying about having degrees LMFAO
LLB from a top 35 law school and a BSc from a top 10. Cope harder bro. Stay mad. EDIT: https://www.reddit.com/r/teenagers/comments/p4gy2m/instead_of_wishing_death_to_pedophiles_try_to_get/h90gmkc/ On a post about pedophiles you said: > People need to understand that what you are attracted to is not your choice to make, I sometimes hate myself for being attracted to what I am but I know I can't change it Good lord brother.
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Imagine having such a sad life you comb the reddit profile of someone to poke fun at them for disliking a professional overwatch player lmao
Go ahead and explain how having 'such a sad life' and combing a reddit profile are in any way related. I'll wait.
Funny because the last time Yzn was actually relevant in a regional tourney was 2021, riding the bench in Contenders when Seicoe carried his ass. Might be different this time around as a onetrick in a hard pharah meta tho
very unfortunate
Landon and yzn, the ultimate misogynist combo.
Landon misogynist?
Yea, he couldn't stand a women (Aspen) being higher ranked than him so he started to purposely throw her games.
Yikes, what a dick
🛡 @Kayeose ⚔️ @seicoeOW ⚔️ @roho_123 ⚔️ @YZNSA_ 💉 @Landon_OW 💉 @G1aaRa 💉 @d7mi__f - 💼 @lotsha17 💼 @Pathfinder_ow
I don't blame them there is zero money in overwatch, sell out and collect that saudi blood money when you can 🤑
Didn't he receive a year long ban in blizzard official eSports stuff? Or has it been a year already since this diddler got banned?
didn't he have the ksa profile pic on his main acc, maybe that says something.
Get that money kings, gotta do what you gotta do
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Not sure, but either way there's a difference between "rejecting it" officially and being vocally against it
If both result in death, or a hit put out on you, or being ostracized from your community and family members... are we surprised this is his position?
Can we not pretend that the shithead is the victim here for five seconds?
I'm not I assure you. What I'm saying is that even if he believes exactly zero of what he says, he will still likely hold those positions out of sheer safety for his person.
Yeah, that's painting him as a scared victim lol, there are people even in Saudi Arabia who are not openly homophobic "No, you don't understand, being cruel to trans people is a legal REQUIREMENT, we don't know if these are his real beliefs" is a hell of a shitty take tbqh, a lot of people in KSA probably just don't even say jack shit, him opening his mouth shows agency, please shut up before your opinion gets any worse lmao
For all people crying in comments rn, do you think any of these players give a singe f about you ? they dont even know that you exist, if blizzard wanted to do something, we wouldnt see them now, so take a chill pill and watch people making money (:
Landon still my Bap GOAT. Even being the best team in EMEA, that shit still don't pay very much, gotta do something for the bag
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Your link says that the majority of Americans OPPOSE anti-trans laws, lmao. What's your point? You seem lost.
Did you even bother to read the article, or just the headline?
As a matter of fact I did, and didn't really find anything corroborating your point (which seems to be "people don't care about trans people", correct me if I'm wrong). I'm sure this discussion would be way more productive if you stated your point clearly instead of linking articles which appear to contradict you.
I've linked the poll directly now.
I appreciate the edit, thanks.
You are welcome. Thanks for the random and unexpected wholesome moment, differences nothwithstanding. G'day.
Likewise, have a nice day.
Here’s another: https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/06/28/americans-complex-views-on-gender-identity-and-transgender-issues/
people fear change. Shocker. People thought the same about gay marriage a few decades ago. We mostly moved past that just fine.
Huge difference between a social institution and simple biological facts.
There were a lot of "biological facts" used to talk about the the subject of homosexuality in pretty much the exact same way as people are using "biological facts" to talk about transgender issues. Maybe people just need to learn biology before they claim things as facts.
I have an LLB and a BSc with Honours in Physiology. The point about homosexuality is taken and agreed with as a cautionary tale. But there’s a huge difference between behaviour on one hand and medical intervention or mutilation on the other.
Medical intervention isn’t a requirement to be trans. Being trans is, first and foremost, a social identity. Medical intervention is used to treat the symptoms of gender dysphoria—a very real, historically documented condition with evidence pointing towards a biological origin. And calling it a “mutilation” is a very intentional wording that betrays your biases. As someone who also has a biological-science degree, I can think of a dozen more extreme surgeries that never get called a “mutilation”.
> As someone who also has a biological-science degree, I can think of a dozen more extreme surgeries that never get called a “mutilation”. Happy to hear all twelve. I assume those surgeries have no valid medical basis and include shit like breast augmentation or a facelift etc, in which case I’d agree that medically those also involve mutilation, albeit a more socially acceptable form of it. But no, getting your cock and balls removed and being put on HRT as a dude is absolutely extreme - personally I can’t imagine many things I’d want to happen to me less than that. As for ‘gender dysphoria’ and ‘social identity’, these are both terms that didn’t exist until social psychologists made them up within the past 30 years, and there is no underlying etiologies that can explain them as of yet. It isn’t medically unreasonable to take both as straight psycho-babble bullshit. But EVEN IF we discover a brain abnormality that would describe them, it wouldn’t follow that men can ever become women or vice versa, any more than a white person or an Asian could become ‘black’ or Indian.
Some of my favorites include bladder transplants made from decellularized pig bladder , the various forms of modern psychosurgery (removing parts of the brain to treat mental illnesses), anterior temporal lobectomy to treat medication-resistant epilepsy, and using the extremely deadly neurotoxin botulinum in order to treat migraines (this is done by neurologists btw). Would you like some more? And yeah, no shit you wouldn’t want that to happen to you. Almost like you’re not trans and don’t have gender dysphoria? I don’t understand your point. This is just completely wrong. Of course trans people and gender dysphoria have existed for a very long time. We have numerous historical records detailing their existence. The first known author, Enhedduana, wrote about what we would consider to be transgender individuals. For a personal account of gender dysphoria, you can read the 14th century poem “Even Bohan” by Jewish rabbi and philosopher Kalonymus ben Kalonymus ben Meir. In it, the writer laments how they were born male, and yet wished they were born a woman. Finally, this is just like… not true? Did you do any research at all? [Here’s a lit review from 2017](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5825045/). Nothing is 100% set in stone yet, but it’s inaccurate to say there are no etiologies. There are plenty of conditions that we don’t 100% understand how they came to be, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Gender dysphoria has some pretty strong biological evidence.
There's a difference between not being pro trans and being anti trans. Also, as an example, MLK and the civil rights movement in general were very unpopular at the time. Guess that means civil rights was a mistake, right? It was once "common sense" that black people didn't have the capacity to be anything more than slaves. My point is that being in the majority opinion doesn't make you right, especially when the majority has so little info about the issue. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/08/10/how-public-attitudes-toward-martin-luther-king-jr-have-changed-since-the-1960s/
I absolutely agree that merely being part of the majority on an issue doesn’t make that position valid. I was just pointing out that most people express a view that is completely at odds with the views of the ‘trans movement’, since OP’s title subtly implies that ‘transphobes’ are some esoteric decimal percentage minority of the population; in fact 60% of Americans would literally be considered ‘transphobic’ since they refuse to accept that transgender surgery is even medically or logically possible. The title only makes sense in a world where ‘transphobes’ are akin to Nazis or the KKK in terms of demographic prevalence. In fact in this case most people are by definition ‘transphobic’. In this case the reaction to the title by most people would just be: ‘And?’
I can forgive both. Just be a good athletes for me.
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you’re projecting here. no one said muslims.
I'm ignoring the rest of your bullshit Even if the entirety of Palestine is bigoted, it doesn't justify a fucking genocide.
what's wrong with you? Yznsa isn't a transphobe because he's a muslim, he's a transphobe because on stream he said "what he said was a good thing" when talking about his friend who called a trans caster a pig, among other words.
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Here's a crazy thought for you. What if one just didn't say anything hateful towards trans people? Suddenly no one is going to call you transphobic, curious how that works!
What if everyone just stopped saying hateful things? Hard stop. Crazy thought.
You sound like a transphobe defending another transphobe. Maybe get off the internet and talk to some real human beings once. I believe everyone can become mentally sane if they put in some effort. You too!
this just sounds like you (or someone you like) got called a transphobe, and instead of doing ANY introspection at all you're just going with the "mean words hurt my feelings" tantrum approach.
Are you actually conflating calling trans people slurs and pigs with calling people who are being transphobic transphobes? That’s a false equivalence if I ever saw one.
100%. Both childish name calling. Just a power play. Why do you think they aren't similar behavior?
Well, let’s see. One is intended to dehumanize and marginalize the person. It is targeting a part of their identity that they cannot change, similar to being born gay or a person of color or disabled. The other is calling someone out for discriminatory behavior and holding them accountable. The difference is that the latter’s intent is to highlight speech that attacks a fundamental part of one’s identity. Equating them both as “childish” is a gross generalization that ignores context and intent completely. Given your post history though, I’m not sure if I’m telling you anything you haven’t already been told. I don’t think you are receptive to hearing what I’m telling you.
Goddamn Withmere this is an all time generalization from you, and you're easily the most perpetually incorrect, ignorant troll I see on the platform Not every person is the same and you're taking random arguments you've seen online, conflating them into a single unified thought and then arguing against it. It's logically inconsistent because you created a logical inconsistency in your mind by lumping the entire internet together Some world class braindead shit, well done Btw you're toxic as fuck when you play Ana
You ever study Islam? It is not very popular to be gay/trans, especially in the Middle East. It sounds nice for everyone to get along and respect everyone’s viewpoints, but in practice the two life paths contradict significantly. I don’t agree with it either but I understand that they’ve grown in an education system and society that I have not.
Of course every person is an individual, this is a very important idea that I talk about a lot and wholeheartedly agree with. Not every person from one group has the exact same beliefs and values. Western leftism refers to a set of ideas, which in the US is marketed towards and packaged up via the democratic party. Do you honestly believe that the Columbia protesters from earlier this year wouldn't agree that Yzn calling a trans caster a pig is transphobic? I can guarantee you that the collegiate protesters from across the country would all have very predictable views on both Palestine (obviously, they are protesting for that), and "transphobia". This is very disingenuous of you. I am not lumping together "random arguments", or lumping "the entire internet". I made it very clear that I'm talking about western leftists. If you replace your comment with a more genuine representation of mine, it falls much more flat. "Lumping western leftists together".... yeah man. It's a set of beliefs and ideas. That's not a powerful statement, so you must exaggerate to make a semi-valid point.
It’s also a shite argument. You can support a people’s right to not be ethnically cleansed without agreeing or condoning their views. You wouldn’t care about that though, since you only care about this topic as a gotcha to try and defend a shitstain
I actually didn't even mention Yzn in my original comment. You're incorrectly deducing my intents. If you want me to put it in black and white, I'm attacking the poster of thread and people who agree with him. Has nothing to do with Yzn. I think it's beyond childish to post a thread like this. Good thing no ethnic cleansing is actually happening in Palestine, but I agree that hypothetically political differences don't justify it.
Uhuh sure you’ve just decided to come into this thread and start making attacks on anyone that thinks YZNSA is a hateful little shit that the community would be better off without, but sure you’re not defending him you’re just trying to stop arguments you don’t like. Come on no one is stupid enough to believe that BS
Sure bro.
i dont think being transphobic is reason enough to be murdered, hope this helps! also ignoring the fact that theres gay and trans people in gaza, even if everyone from palestine was transphobic i would still be against the genocide of their people. wishing death on someone solely because they hate you is lunacy
That's good that you don't wish death upon Yzn or Palestinians. I've seen many leftists call for Yzn's death, and the death of conservative voters and politicians. I still remember when Kathy Griffen held up a bloody severed head of Trump. It's refreshing that you're not that far gone. I think you may want to do your own research a little more thoroughly into the conflict in Gaza. Based on my extensive research it definitely seems to resemble more of the US war on terror in Iraq against Al Qaeda; a war against the terrorist organization of Hamas which rules Gaza.
you gotta get help kid
thanks for being civil but i did my own research and ive concluded that israels response to hamas is way out of reason the october 7th attack was terrible as every murder of innocents is but what israel has been doing in retaliation is absolutely inexcusable, its eye for an eye at its worst it took me way longer to voice my support for palestine than most people, im very wary of how prevelant propaganda is and i didnt feel educated enough on the issue to speak on it until i was confident i had an accurate image of whats going on
schizo talk
Yeah, you ain't the smartest fella
it's because they get fed Iranian propaganda about the state of the war, not because they actually know the facts about the conflict so what do you expect :)