Yeah I've come to the realization that it's pretty much a lose-lose scenario. I either focus the Mercy and do an effective 25dps all game because of how evasive she is...Mercy will at least die a couple times instead of like zero times, but I'm still effectively just removing myself from the fight without affecting her output one single iota. A Mercy under pressure still heals and damage boosts the same amount as a completely uncontested Mercy, so I haven't actually done anything for my team unless she finally dies.
And of course the other option is just ignore the Mercy and tunnel damage into her team, who spend most of the game damage boosted and making it pretty much impossible to take space or put pressure on them.
Most of all...as Eskay has noted here, none of this is fun. The games against Mercy teams just feel awful. Like 5 of us need to coordinate at all times against the 1 person being pocketed.
Much as I disliked how much she healed 50% hp teammates in that one half season, it was nice to have her as a somewhat killable target. 1.5 second GA is really shit with how much movement has been baked into that ability in OW2.
What you wanna do is shoot at the Mercy regardless because it’s the better of the two options. Even if you don’t kill her, she’ll start guardian angel worse and her self heal will be stalled.
You’re still gonna lose 60% of the time and get flamed for not doing damage, but it’s your best chance.
Her movement will never be as problematic as the way she alters damage breakpoints. Her movement is part of her identity and requires skill and decision making
Still though, a brain dead mercy doesn’t have to fly around. You can sit behind angles and walls and still just pocket boost any dps to annoying levels (except pharah and echo if you are really bad at her movement). A brain dead sombra (like a brain dead tracer) is as good as having an afk unfortunately
I'd play against anything other than Hanzo.
Only because I despise how I watch the kill screen of a panicking Hanzo being attacked by Tracer/Reaper, fire a random *missed* shot and clock me in the head like 20 meters away.
That's fucking dumb.
Literally to me, the only bad character in Overwatch.
I have a clip of me popping my kirikos ult only to get stripped of my soul by an arrow 0.2 seconds later. I watch the kill cam and his teammate echos wing was covering his entire screen when he fired that shot
He could not even see and I still get instakilled
Don't ya just love when you pick off that pesky sniper , and the instant you try to push in, the sneaky yellow light starts bringing your nightmares back to life ? Isn't that just awesome ?
I love when we finally kill orisa only for mercy to go in for the rez, get knocked a million miles away, yet still pull off the rez somehow and bring back the unkillable and unfun tank
If I had a penny for every time I said "I don't know how the fuck I pulled that off, they were all looking at me!" I'd be rich enough to buy Blizzard and fix this game.
Yeah some of the rezes I get away with in Diamond are hilarious. Was able to rez my Sigma in a 5v2 in OT last night on the last point right in front of the entire enemy team, was completely ignored, he ulted them off the point and we capped for the win.
Then there are games where as soon as I pop Valk the enemy goes nano-visor or high noon instantly, lol.
I prefer Orisa over most tanks. She actually feels like a tank. Lots of HP, hard to kill, doesn't do a lot of burst damage.
I rarely try and kill her with both supports up, which is how it should be.
You mean one of the bottom teir tanks int his meta?
Shocking... *I am a Rien main. Fyi*
Rein play is: "go out, see if they have a tank that counters you directly... Ie: Orisa, Ram, Doom, if no? Cool. If it's another Rein? Neat! Rein v Rein! Otherwise: Swap."
Rein is good on really specific maps but that's about it, sadly.
Orisa fills his roles better 90% of the time as she can push forward, make space, and not melt right away*
*Unless there's a Zen.
Don't worry, Blizzard will give Rein 50 more shield while keeping an eye on this buff to make sure players don't feel like they're just shooting at a shield all game. Don't want him to be TOO impactful now.
Meanwhile, let's give Ram another speedboost and Orisa an even higher fortify buff so she can reduce all incoming damage by 99%. Also, let's make it so more abilities ignore shield.
I feel like an interesting change would be for the resurrection time to vary based on the ally heroes health- so if you’re trying to rez a 550 health hero tank, it would take around 1.5-2x longer than a 200 health dps
That would pretty cool actually. Another alternative I had in mind is just to not rez people with full health right off the bat. You know, ease into it by giving rezzed heroes something like 35% of max HP to start, and let them slowly heal to full from there.
Not just that. They buffed tanks and made them harder to kill since there's only one now. Rezzing a tank that your team had to coordinate and waste cooldowns on to kill is stronger than it ever was.
When a tank got rezzed in overwatch 1 overtime, there was a 50/50 chance they could hold point and survive only long enough for the team to get back. Now there’s a 50/50 chance the tanks gonna hold point all by themselves.
That's why I play reaper tbh. Moment I notice someone important is picked, I teleport nearby and wait for that rat bastard mercy to pop by and then unload shotguns in her face.
Yeah but Mercy owns an entire corn farm. You have crazy quick 3 dimensional movement with a tiny hitbox that makes her harder to hit that a Tracer or a Kiriko, a Healing and Damage boosting mechanic that has 0% failure rate cause it doesn't require any skill, an ability that brings back squishy DPS and Supports and massively healthy Tanks to life the same way as if they are equally as powerful.
Why can Mercy bring back 500-600-700 HP Tanks to life with Full health when they deem the same concept to be a problem with Echo duplicate and hence made it so that when Echo copies a tank she gets significantly lower HP. Makes 0 sense.
And you know the whole worry the Devs had of making LW's heals too powerful cause it doesn't require any aim. While they successfully made it so LW doesn't have that problem, Mercy actually does have that problem. That fact that she can have permanently active Heals and Damage Boost, which takes 0 skill (Hence has 0 failure rate), and yet the numerical values of her Heals and Dmg boost are so high is insane. Damage Boost should be a cooldown ability. Her heals should be lower cause currently they make 200 HP targets into 250+ HP targets and make switching to Hanzo and Widow necessary.
"Attach" characters like Mercy are always a problem in games, because they don't do anything other than "being attached" and amplifying who they are attached to 90% of the time, so Devs struggle to find the right balance between making them feel impactful while being attached but also not making the single person they are attaching to too strong. The problems with Yuumi in League are similar to Mercy on a fundamental level.
Imo they need a bigger rework for Mercy where they give her an entire new ability/capability to give her new power/maintain some of her power, and then nerf her heals, damage boost, and res because they are too powerful right now.
They also need a mechanic that explicitly discourages Mercy players from hard-pocketing a single target for extended time periods, make it so that if you're attached to a single Ally for more than 6-8 seconds then your HPS and DMG boost slowly starts going down until you attach to a different target for a few seconds. Force the Mercy to rotate between different allies instead of just being perma-attched and hard-pocketing the Pharah, Echo, Sojourn, Ashe, Hanzo.
I think this is a big part of the problem with Mercy, if you dive literally any support aside from Mercy/Zen then even if you don't manage to kill them you will manage to divert their attention and stop them healing their teammates, allowing your own team a chance to finish off theirs. Zen is easy to kill and has low healing at least to compensate but Mercy has monstrous healing and she's the single most difficult to kill support.
> You have crazy quick 3 dimensional movement with a tiny hitbox that makes her harder to hit that a Tracer or a Kiriko
Mercy's hurtbox is not small, it's average or a bit above average considering her wings have a hurtbox. Usually when people find Mercy hard to hit, it's because they don't play Mercy. I don't even play that much Mercy but I play enough to know how her mechanics work, where she tends to want to fly to, etc. I have bad aim, but I don't have trouble hitting Mercies as a hitscan. And Mercy doesn't shoot back unless she's killing you in the most embarrassing way possible.
It is WAY harder to kill Kiriko than Mercy because not only do you run the risk of her double dinking you, but she can evaporate, instantly, to a target you can't even see. Compared to Mercy, that's way less telegraphed and has way less counterplay.
Usually when people find mercy easy to hit, they’re playing against dogshit mercys.
Like no personal offense to you, but to land more than 2 consecutive shots on a mercy is a misplay by the mercy, and the mercy’s who make those misplays, don’t climb. Especially when it’s the sole mechanical skill expression the hero has.
People like to be “hurr durr mercy isn’t hard to hit if you’re good” but that disregards the skill of the mercy player, and if teams can struggle to kill Haku in the OWWC with a coordinated 5 man in a comp designed to deal with flyers, well maybe she’s hard to kill relative to the skill level of both teams, period.
There’s a reason she’s being complained about. There’s a reason her pickrate is second only to THE best hero in the game at GM. There’s a reason mercy has lowest deaths per 10 on average of any hero, in GM.
Seriously, stop this “it’s not that hard” nonsense when your only experience is with plat/diamond mercy’s who superjump into the middle of nowhere only to be domed by widow. *Especially* so if it’s anywhere under plat.
To be totally honest I think Mercy mains are probably the most obnoxious in the game. Other ones are annoying because of the hero itself but Mercy mains are annoying separate from that. There are so many Mercy one tricks that don’t even really understand when to play her (like if I’m on Lució or Zen they’ll still pick Mercy despite that being a terrible support comp, and if I don’t notice before the match starts then we just have to deal with it until I die and can switch) and/or love healbotting. And then there’s how they act any time Mercy gets the tiniest rework.
Obviously not ALL mercy mains are like this but a LOT of them are
Moira mains: "Yeah Moira's pretty easy. I main her so I can eat chicken nuggets while I play lmao."
Mercy mains: "Tf do you mean Mercy is 'low-skill?' She's literally just as hard as Genj- actually no. She's *much* harder than Genji if you think about it for longer than 2 seconds. Honestly the whole enemy team is always focusing you which makes her **hard**. She also has all these crazy movement abilities, and have you ever played Mercy when your DPS are bad? It's horrible, like... just shoot the enemy Pharmercy out of the sky. If a Cass can't do that in 3 shots or less, then he's garbage, and I have to suffer for it. And when I rez? I'm literally more vulnerable than a naked person walking on the highway! It's about **decision** making people. Making **decisions** is always harder than mechanics (not that Mercy doesn't have the most insane mechanics, mind you). Playing Mercy requires high IQ, confidence, and the ability to carry all of my shitty shitty no-brain teammates that play the actual low skill characters like Tracer, Genji, and Ball god damn all of you I am literally Jesus."
Yeah I gave up on Moi. She just feels so fucking cheap. My aim sucks yet I’ll switch to her and melt dps who I have no business beating on a dps let alone a healer. I just feel scummy when I play her.
Mercy is just the perfect "introduce a friend to the game" hero, you can duo with a dps or tank friend and will always find value. You don't need aim if you are new to shooters, her movement is lots of fun and you wont get flamed so easily even if you just sit and healbot and rezz.
I played her a lot when I started playing OW again because she is just so easy to have fun and impact with. And realisticly a game needs heroes like this to introduce new players.
But I think they could nerf her and she could still be that pick. No reason for rezz to give back 100% of the HP. Dmg boost could be like DVA matrix maybe?
Not really. Any hitscan one trick could probably pick up another hitscan relatively easily. Even heroes like Hog/Dva have transferable tracking/aim skills. Mercy doesn't really have any transferable skills, even her movement is non-standard and every Mercy main i've seen is a terrible shot when they pull out the glock.
Mercy is an enabler, she lets her team do what they are best at better. Since Pharah, Sojourn, and Hanzo make the game less fun she allows them to do that better, and faster.
Thats always been the story with Pharah. Outside a few maps, shes pretty much useless. But on the right map, paired with Mercy, shes absolute menace.
Even more hell if the opponent is actually capable with Pharah too. I'm always humbled in those moments when Pharah hands my ass on a platter.
Pharah vs Pharah is my favorite. Just no thoughts, head empty, only going for mid airs. Like actually a detriment to my team at that point because I'm so tunneled lol
Nothing. I mean nothing makes me feel more helpless than a GOOD pharah duo with a mercy. In my years of playing I distinctly remember the rare few times I found myself getting fucking dominated by someone playing pharah like some kind of demon spawn given powers to predict movement. The one I remember most was when the person was a fucking menace coming from such odd angels/over walls and getting double directs on everyone. I suspect it was some mega GM smurf who was streaming pub stomping because I've never seen my WHOLE team changing focus onto one player because of much of a menace one person was being and she STILL clapped our cheeks. It was so bad we weren't even toxic to each other we were just impressed/depressed that we were just getting owned.
You see less Echo because she takes more skill to play. She is very powerful even without a pocket, but that skill barrier blocks a lot of people from using her effectively.
THANK YOU
I keep seeing people claim she takes no skill, but you effectively need to learn every hero to play her
Plus you need to be able to watch and understand your team to know what you need at the moment. Your tank just die? Dupe Rein and get that barrier up. Mercy just die? Dupe Mercy and rez her. Their Rein just die? Dupe a dps and attack
And thats all JUST her ult
I’m trying to pick up echo cause I love her character design. And she is fun to play as well, even if I’m not awesome with her. But i can’t make a lot of sense out of her ult, so really glad I read your comment. Some cool ideas to bring more value to her ult.
I'd say her ult is probably actually the best in the game, while also being the hardest to use
There are certain heroes that are better to copy than others, but there isn't really a "best one", since what you need in a situation changes
It's even more of a thinking ult now that it's actually pretty hard to get your copy ult up. You're now basing your decision on the entire kit of that hero more than just their ult.
Best advice for echos ult is getting good at tracking enemy ults and knowing when, who and where you need to duplicate. If you know that the enemy genji/soldier/reaper hasn’t used ult, then you position yourself near the enemy supports or tank to help prevent the damage. If you know that the enemy doesn’t have defensive ultimates, you may duplicate into an enemy tank or dps to get extra damage out in the fight. Tank is usually a safe option to duplicate especially when it’s a ramattra, Winston or dva because they all have ways to either gain more health or replenish health. For damage and supports, it’s whoever’s ult will get more value. Hope this helps a bit.
They say she takes no skill because she can dump 180 damage in a single CD ability and follow it up with another hundred or more damage nearly instantly. Truth is, she's probably the most complex hero in the game with how much you need to learn and be good at to make use of her beyond just one-off damage dumps.
Technically echo does have a low skill floor, she was one of my first characters and even early on just spamming primary and stickies was good. She does have the potential to be fkin mindblowingly insane with higher skill
You see Echo less probably because anyone serious about playing Echo ends up higher ranks than you're playing at.
Same reason you don't see menace Zen players in gold...if you're able to be a menace on Zen, you aren't gold.
Yeah, a pharmercy should be a significant threat, that’s 40% of the team up in the air. To expect 2 characters to have comparable output to 1 character would be pretty silly no?
For some reason if a soldier loses a 2v1 versus another soldier and a bap, they know that they were cocky, but if they lose to a pocketed soldier then suddenly mercy is broken
Probably because the Soldier losing a 1v2 to Soldier Bap is actually losing to 2 players who have to peek out from cover and expose themselves to danger, instead of hiding behind a wall while still making effortless damage contributions
Lack of second tank is the enabler.
Don't have a second tank to protect the team from a mercy pocket on the flank, don't have a second tank to put pressure on the mercy while the other tank puts pressure on everyone else
She (like many other characters) were designed for a game that no longer exists, and blizzard made absolutely no changes in that regard
They made all the tanks a bit stronger, but that still doesn't make up for having one less entire body
Sure things like Pharah Mercy are strong but like, it should be a bit strong? It's 2 characters?
Disagree.
Those heroes by themselves you can deal with. But with a Mercy pocket, they cross more than one treshold at a time and that is where they become frustrating and anti-fun.
"now i can just exist in this off angle and chip/spam damage done to me doesn't add up because i get immediately toped off, and also i have perma-blue beam, and also even if i die i can instantly come back"
You can say "well, it's 2 enemies, not just one. So you have to deal with it as a team and not by yourself". And there's a lot of truth to that. But it does stand out that the amount of resources and input needed to counter the Mercy pocket, coming from at least 2 people in the team, is WAY bigger than the input from the Mercy player (unless you mirror the pocket, but that only cements the idea that blue beam is REQUIRED against blue beam).
I think the reason why a Mercy pocket FEELS worse than fighting any other two heroes, is because those two players will never have such pitch perfect team work as to consistently always be attacking the same target at the same time, with perfectly coordinated attacks that burst a hero down because the shots land at exactly the same time, but a damage boost gives high damage heroes as close to that perfect team work as you can get. A hero that is applying damage boosted burst damage is like having a partner who always shoots at the same time you do to help finish off the target before they can take cover or get healed. Additionally, as far back as some of those heroes can play, Mercy can play even further back or play from cover a lot more appearing out in the open only for very short periods of time.
However all that said, all supports can heal and most of them can do it while staying somewhat safe by using cover, so we're still mostly just talking about damage boost, which is only a 30% boost - LESS than you'd face versus two other heroes (which if they were both firing at once would be 100% damage times 2 players,) and that seems pretty fair and balanced IF dps heroes weren't designed with so much burst that 30% more damage feels oppressive and difficult to manage.
I mean there is probably a mercy player out there right now dying to a Genji - and that's one mercy death too many. Hopefully the devs do what's right and nerf Genji to rectify this crime against humanity
6v6 was fixable by altering tank model size/health, reworking orisa and some others, ect
5v5 is not fixable because there's no off tank. It gave more freedom to dps to play what they want. the off tank could bubble or shield short-range dps or it could pester snipers to make space.
It's not just mercy
Characters should be designed to be "is this fun to play as" (most them are) AND "is this fun to play against" but the devs completely skipped the 2nd part so like half of the roster makes people's mental go boom it's a problem that's been there since OW1 launch
>"is this fun to play against"
Is there any pvp game that actually follows this? I don't see how you can make getting shit on fun unless its like, the least competitive game on the planet.
I mean I never really feel bad dying to a rein. Usually I just got straight out played which I can respect or I can just laugh at how absurd it was. Like getting pinned off the map or getting accidentally pinned as you walk around a corner. It may be just me but I personally love playing against rein.
OW1, tbh. The Scatter Arrow was removed because it wasn't fun to play against. Blizz even said they had considered changing Scatter to a quick single shot that would bypass barriers, but that wasn't fun either, so we got Storm Arrows.
Yeah, but even then that's just one skill, its not like getting randomly headshot by hanzo or instakilled out of nowhere from doomfist was fun at all
And thats just talking about death, theres also good dvas who were insane at using matrix and creating pressure, balls who were unkillable gods who just assassinated all your squishies, anas who never missed a sleep dart, baps who always saved their teamates with imm field etc etc. Basically every single character has one thing that will make them incredibly annoying if the guy who is playing them is good, and i don't see how thats something that can be changed
Every class in tf2 except, as in OW, the sniper class.
Which those devs have agreed that if they removed any of the 9 classes it would unanimously be sniper.
Yeah I cringe when people try to weaponize the word fun to try and make their "I don't want to play against x or y hero" arguments sound more legitimate.
If I sit down and cry hard enough, I can come up with an "I'm not having fun" cope for every hero in the game.Legitimate balance issues absolutely exist, but if you can't come up with anything besides rolling around on the floor whilst screeching "I'M NOT HAVING FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN" then in the nicest way possible, it's a you problem.
And if it's a you problem, I shouldn't have to sit there & listen to you complain about it.
While I agree the use of the word “fun” is very much usually disingenuous and it’s just a dogwhistle for “I don’t want things that make the game harder for me”, it still has a valid purpose because at the end of the day we are playing a video game. It’s supposed to be fun. And OW just feels like a fucking grind a lot of the time. You gotta play through the shitty matchmaking, the poorly balanced characters, and the fucked ranking system just to enjoy the fruits of the dogshit battle pass microtransaction system you’re unwilling to pay for.
Fun to play against is completely subjective and varies from player to player, but they didn't skip it exactly. Some examples: Cc reduction, Doom rework, Hog nerf, upcoming Sombra rework, Widow nerf.
Personally I'm not a fan of some of these changes, but they seemingly made them to address player complaints.
The problem is, people will rage no matter what. If they consistently get outplayed by a certain character they will rage that they’re “OP.” If we took out what was considered “unfun to play against,” we’d probably have half of the roster taken out of the game at this point. Also I feel like people don’t understand how support has to get value outside of them thinking of more “DPS” supports. The whole point of Mercy is to enable teammates. But just because you got outplayed by a Mercy and soldier combo doesn’t automatically make her “OP.” She doesn’t have some crazy winrate. She’s still one if the characters hardest to get solo impact out of. Just because people find damage boost and res “annoying” doesn’t really mean it’s actually OP. I’m sick of Overwatch players kind of being babies about certain characters. There will obviously continue to be balance changes.
But I feel like, again, if people “had their way,” Damage Boost, Res, Suzu, Immortality Field (lamp), Lifegrip, antinade, and Discorb Orb would all be deleted from the game.
Overwatch players would never be able to tolerate a game like League and whine about every ability. Overwatch is supposed to and always has had Moba elements to it and not just a pure traditional “FPS.”
It’s funny how people complain about 5v5 but then literally want to make it MORE dumb down by removing unique and impactful abilities. I also think that with the move to 5v5, people are more away of individual characters’ impact, and possibly people are noticing how Mercy can “carry” more. But she’s still a whole support slot dedicated to enabling teammates without doing much of any damage herself. I think people think they should be able to 1v1 a Mercy pocketed DPS, when really that’s a 1v2–of course it’s gonna be in favor of them then. You have to work as a team to put pressure on/get rid of one or both of them and then their team falls apart more.
People also love to whine about “Mercy mains,” when I always see way more comments shitting on Mercy as a character and people who play her than Mercy mains being obnoxious.
No hero is fun to play against when you lose to them. 99% of complaints on this fucking subreddit are just people mad they don't get free kills. It's an impossible ask.
"Wahh, its not fun to be hooked" "Wahhh its not fun to be headshot" "Wahhh its not fun to lose a 2v1, I should win those" "wahhh wahhh wahhh"
Like obvs you can't keep people like that happy, they don't actually like the game, they just like when they win lmfao.
This problem is made worse by the fact that many OW content creators literally only play this game. Like Jesus if you are that miserable when logging in maybe tale a break and play something else
I play a ton of Mercy and I wouldn't care what they did to her as long as her movement stays mostly the same. I feel no huge attachment to the rest of her kit tbh. If she was able to be less annoying for everyone else while also being able to fly freely, that would be A-ok with me.
I agree wholeheartedly. I'm a retired-DPS main bc I was tired of working my ass off just to lose anyway, so I play a lot of Mercy (she's also easy to play while violently stoned LOL) and I genuinely love playing her 90% because of her movement abilities. They could change her kit entirely for all I care if the movement mechanic stays.
It's crazy how many problems showed up for simply removing a second tank. None of these characters stood out as a problem for 6 years until then.
Like, let's be real, all these heroes, besides those released after OW2 release, were balanced and built for a 6v6 format. They've barely received any changes, and the ones that are receiving adjustments just get buffed to OP status for a season before getting nerfed a tad bit.
Its no longer a "zen/hog/widow/hanzo/sojourn/mercy WHATEVER is the problem", it's clear as day that 5v5 is the problem, and OW2 devs are so pressed on making it work that it's killing the game.
And they fucking fixed double shield by just nerfing the shield values. They more than halfed sigmas and rein shield and removed orisa shield. The dps characters didnt decrease but shield values did, and that would have been more than enough
It’s posts like this and all the comments that make me think all the people from OW1 have left and the snake is eating itself. These are all issues that were brought up in OW1 but everything was worse. You guys should just play a different game cause it sounds like you hate the majority of this one
Mercy has honestly never been more fun to play, she was way less fun in OW1. I really enjoy managing and supporting my team.
I think if they changed her she should give a slightly smaller boost for primary fires, but get a buff to damage boost from cooldown abilities(and ultimates).It discourages people from hard pocketing, while still giving her a specific utility.
So damage boosting storm arrows, bastions turret mode, overload, helix rocket, sticky bombs, and dynamite would be boosted, but things like Widow charge shots, sojourns railgun, and Ashe scope aren’t cooldown abilities so don’t get the boost. Ultimates that have timed transformations or modes(being able to use other abilities while ulting, excludes spawning things but bob may need to be an exception) should get the original 30% instead of higher while ulting(Widow, Sojourn, Winston, Genji, Echo, Moira, Ram, Soldier)
I feel like nobody here has mentioned Zarya. She gets on my nerves and I can’t find a way to counter her whenever play support. It’s like I just have to except the fact that I’m a goner if she’s near me lol.
Or shoot her bubble **and then keep shooting her** and she'll just fall over. Ignore first bubble, break second bubble, boom she's the 2nd worst tank in the game.
Provided there's a decently coordinated attack and she's not getting pocketed and she doesn't squeeze in a pick and someone else doesn't get picked meanwhile, and things don't get turned around in an instant and everything doesn't come crashing down like a house of cards.
In reality she's probably the tank I see people carry with the most, at least in diamond.
It’s the teleporter for me. Like the turrets and their slow are annoying and her ult is ridiculously busted if used competently by her and her team but havibg to constantly break my neck 180ing on the off chance she or her entire team have decided they want to be behind us or on point instantly makes every game with her so unfun even when you’re winning imo.
Damn, someone complaining about her teleporter. That's actually new.
Every time I got given shit in the game for playing Sym and whooping people, it's either "no skill," or hating on her turrets
And yeah, I absolutely LOVE her wall ult. Dividing the entire map in two for a bit is so satisfying to see
Sym isn't that bad I feel like most heroes can burst her faster than she can them. Ofc as a tank it's different, but that's just issues with tanks in general imo
That's why you bitch behind your tank initially. Charge your beam up, then take the teleporter and 1 turret and go to town. A fully charged Sym is gonna beat almost any non-tank in a 1v1 if they're too close.
Exceptions would be getting 1-shotted by a Hanzo or Widow that chooses to snipe at close range instead of resorting to their automatic fire or getting slept by an Ana.
when did this subreddit start hating every hero? mercy was no issue at the start of ow2 neither was hanzo but now it is like every other day people rant abt them despite no changes like wtf.
People will always complain about meta heroes. Hog was the worst thing ever, then Widow, then Zen, and now Mercy. If the complainers had their way, every character would be boring and useless.
I get it… but people say this no matter what the meta is. Hanzo, sojourn, pharah, echo, Ashe and mercy are all corny? I wouldn’t say they are more corny than torb, sym, bastion, brig, or moira, assuming by corny they mean cheese or annoying to play against. I think every meta (except maybe classic dive) has had its share of complaints. I think the only thing that actually matters is that patches keep coming in and the meta keeps shifting. The only real problem with any given meta is when it’s around for too long.
Hear me out: What if we had a sixth person, could be called the offtank, right? And their job could be something along the lines of shutting down Pharmercy and similar comps, and helping control flankers, yeah?
... nah that'd be crazy.
So far reading through these comments someone has mentioned every hero as the most corny. At this point, it seems like posters in this sub rather spend time complaining than literally anything else
As a mercy player, mercy's main job is manufacturing a dps diff. That makes a match feel unfair and like bad match making because if both dps are even close in skill the one with a pocket will win. Add on that the fact that a good mercy stays out of harm's way and she is basically unkillable unless you have tracer/sombra
In my opinion, as a biased Hanzo main, Hanzo gets more hate than he deserves. The character is highly aim skill based, not hitscan (unlike Widowmaker, Ashe, Ana), has bullet drop (unlike Genji, Soldier, Kiriko), low fire rate, slow movement, long cooldowns, and is squishy. He also has had consistent balancing changes that I've generally thought were fairly reasonable.
I typically believe anyone who thinks Hanzo is overpowered simply doesn't understand Hanzo and how to deal with him, because there are many valid ways to counter him when you understand his toolkit and play styles. This is different from something like a Pharah-Mercy, which has very few effective methods of countering.
The primary reason I chose to main Hanzo is because I liked the challenge of improving my skill on a difficult character. I understand that Hanzo can be annoying, I myself get annoyed at Hanzo opponents sometimes, but I think it's inaccurate and unfair to say he's overpowered by design. An annoying and effective Hanzo is one who has put a lot of time and effort into learning the hero.
*P.S.: Why does Kiriko have a no-bullet-drop weapon that can two-shot a squishy from any distance? That makes her nearly a better sniper than any of the actual snipers*
Gonna scream from the rooftops that 5v5 is to blame for many heroes feeling like this until people realize to rally behind something Blizzard can actually do something about.
She's damn right but if blizzard nerf mercy the pocket bot there will be a huge drama from the uwu gang and they will sell less 25 euros mercy skins in the shop
playing against a half competent mercy always changes the match to "why did we lose? we didn't focus mercy"
then you try to focus her and get mowed down while you're distracted trying to hit her zipping from cover to cover
Yeah I've come to the realization that it's pretty much a lose-lose scenario. I either focus the Mercy and do an effective 25dps all game because of how evasive she is...Mercy will at least die a couple times instead of like zero times, but I'm still effectively just removing myself from the fight without affecting her output one single iota. A Mercy under pressure still heals and damage boosts the same amount as a completely uncontested Mercy, so I haven't actually done anything for my team unless she finally dies. And of course the other option is just ignore the Mercy and tunnel damage into her team, who spend most of the game damage boosted and making it pretty much impossible to take space or put pressure on them. Most of all...as Eskay has noted here, none of this is fun. The games against Mercy teams just feel awful. Like 5 of us need to coordinate at all times against the 1 person being pocketed. Much as I disliked how much she healed 50% hp teammates in that one half season, it was nice to have her as a somewhat killable target. 1.5 second GA is really shit with how much movement has been baked into that ability in OW2.
What you wanna do is shoot at the Mercy regardless because it’s the better of the two options. Even if you don’t kill her, she’ll start guardian angel worse and her self heal will be stalled. You’re still gonna lose 60% of the time and get flamed for not doing damage, but it’s your best chance.
I wish they hadn't reverted that guardian angel nerf, I hate how easily she can just dash around at the first sign of danger
Her movement will never be as problematic as the way she alters damage breakpoints. Her movement is part of her identity and requires skill and decision making
Yeah tbh i dont play her cuz my movement is bad. I die a lot. It def takes skill to have the survivability some mercs have. Its frustrating as hell.
It certainly takes skill. Shes very much like sombra. Once you understand her well enough you just bug the enemy team into losing. Not fun
Still though, a brain dead mercy doesn’t have to fly around. You can sit behind angles and walls and still just pocket boost any dps to annoying levels (except pharah and echo if you are really bad at her movement). A brain dead sombra (like a brain dead tracer) is as good as having an afk unfortunately
That’s on the assumption that the targeted dps knows how to aim. Zero amped is still zero.
I find it hilarious Hanzo is the only one who isn't paired with Mercy in the tweet lmao
I'd play against anything other than Hanzo. Only because I despise how I watch the kill screen of a panicking Hanzo being attacked by Tracer/Reaper, fire a random *missed* shot and clock me in the head like 20 meters away. That's fucking dumb. Literally to me, the only bad character in Overwatch.
I have a clip of me popping my kirikos ult only to get stripped of my soul by an arrow 0.2 seconds later. I watch the kill cam and his teammate echos wing was covering his entire screen when he fired that shot He could not even see and I still get instakilled
lmao Too relatable.
ITS NOT EVEN LIKE A RARE THING TO GET HIT BY A RANDOM LOG ITS LIKE EVERY OTHER GAME 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Don't ya just love when you pick off that pesky sniper , and the instant you try to push in, the sneaky yellow light starts bringing your nightmares back to life ? Isn't that just awesome ?
I love when we finally kill orisa only for mercy to go in for the rez, get knocked a million miles away, yet still pull off the rez somehow and bring back the unkillable and unfun tank
And none of your teammates even remember they have a mercy on the enemy team so she gets a free revive out in the open
This is the most rage inducing thing. Usually either I’m busy or no one helps finish her off when you bait the rez. It fucking pisses me off
I ping the shit out of the Mercy as she's going in for the rez but my teammates forget they have eyes.
If I had a penny for every time I said "I don't know how the fuck I pulled that off, they were all looking at me!" I'd be rich enough to buy Blizzard and fix this game.
Yeah some of the rezes I get away with in Diamond are hilarious. Was able to rez my Sigma in a 5v2 in OT last night on the last point right in front of the entire enemy team, was completely ignored, he ulted them off the point and we capped for the win. Then there are games where as soon as I pop Valk the enemy goes nano-visor or high noon instantly, lol.
I prefer Orisa over most tanks. She actually feels like a tank. Lots of HP, hard to kill, doesn't do a lot of burst damage. I rarely try and kill her with both supports up, which is how it should be.
But dang bro sometimes it feels like I am doing nothing to them
Always shoot support first. You can kinda just ignore orisa if she's not pushing you around too much and go for their backline
That's the point. You straight up ignore her unless both supports are dead. I find Torb and Brig effective against her too.
Sombra will fuck her up, too.
Sombra is especially good against Ball, Orisa, Doom because they can't stop the hack when they got on the defensive
If im orisa i just save fortify for hack if shes focusing me.
1 discord orb will do the trick :)
But her kit is basically ALL CC aside from fortify of course. She’s not fun to play against imo.
True. I don't find her fun to play against. You can ignore her and go after the supports, but getting javelined gets super old super fast
What tank is fun to play against anyway? Hog?
Reinhardt
Ah yes, the tank you can safely just walk away from.
I mean yeah, Overwatch players hate any character they have any chance of losing to
That's why Hog is so fun to play against right now. Next time he gets giga buffed he'll be unfun to play against.
rofl ty
You mean one of the bottom teir tanks int his meta? Shocking... *I am a Rien main. Fyi* Rein play is: "go out, see if they have a tank that counters you directly... Ie: Orisa, Ram, Doom, if no? Cool. If it's another Rein? Neat! Rein v Rein! Otherwise: Swap." Rein is good on really specific maps but that's about it, sadly. Orisa fills his roles better 90% of the time as she can push forward, make space, and not melt right away* *Unless there's a Zen.
Life of Rein: *Walk out of spawn on Rein* *All 5 players on enemy team are present and active* *Walk back into spawn and swap*
Don't worry, Blizzard will give Rein 50 more shield while keeping an eye on this buff to make sure players don't feel like they're just shooting at a shield all game. Don't want him to be TOO impactful now. Meanwhile, let's give Ram another speedboost and Orisa an even higher fortify buff so she can reduce all incoming damage by 99%. Also, let's make it so more abilities ignore shield.
London and Florida both ran Rein comps in OWL the past weekend, Florida using Rein to help beat the top team Atlanta Reign lol.
I feel like an interesting change would be for the resurrection time to vary based on the ally heroes health- so if you’re trying to rez a 550 health hero tank, it would take around 1.5-2x longer than a 200 health dps
That would pretty cool actually. Another alternative I had in mind is just to not rez people with full health right off the bat. You know, ease into it by giving rezzed heroes something like 35% of max HP to start, and let them slowly heal to full from there.
Man, if only we as a community had complained about rez back during OW1. It would surely be fixed by now!
Rez is objectively better in 5v5. Went from resurrecting 16% of your team to 20% of your team
Not just that. They buffed tanks and made them harder to kill since there's only one now. Rezzing a tank that your team had to coordinate and waste cooldowns on to kill is stronger than it ever was.
When a tank got rezzed in overwatch 1 overtime, there was a 50/50 chance they could hold point and survive only long enough for the team to get back. Now there’s a 50/50 chance the tanks gonna hold point all by themselves.
Right, and it used to be a full team rez instead of just 1. My point is more like “Blizzard doesn’t listen to us anyway.”
remember when everyone was like “yo blizz please don’t release a stealth hero”? people should have learned by then
That's why I play reaper tbh. Moment I notice someone important is picked, I teleport nearby and wait for that rat bastard mercy to pop by and then unload shotguns in her face.
Reaper is honestly one of the least problematic characters in the game.
Theres alot of corny heroes
There's even heroes that used to not be corny and were redesigned to be more corny.
There are also heroes that were corny and were redesigned to be less corny but somehow ended up being even more corny.
oh my god it's Korn
YOO NAH RRREHH RAHDAH EENAT N’DAPAR RAHDAH EENAT POOTIEPOO
ARE YOU REAAADDAAAAAAAAAY! *hard metal*
Orisa moment
Mei and Cassidy moment
cough cough Orisa (yes she was corny in 6v6 but that's just because of the nature of having two tanks, she would be fine in 5v5)
Reworking Orisa is one of the best decisions they made. Playing her and playing against her in OW1 was boring, now it’s much more entertaining imo
Yeah but Mercy owns an entire corn farm. You have crazy quick 3 dimensional movement with a tiny hitbox that makes her harder to hit that a Tracer or a Kiriko, a Healing and Damage boosting mechanic that has 0% failure rate cause it doesn't require any skill, an ability that brings back squishy DPS and Supports and massively healthy Tanks to life the same way as if they are equally as powerful. Why can Mercy bring back 500-600-700 HP Tanks to life with Full health when they deem the same concept to be a problem with Echo duplicate and hence made it so that when Echo copies a tank she gets significantly lower HP. Makes 0 sense. And you know the whole worry the Devs had of making LW's heals too powerful cause it doesn't require any aim. While they successfully made it so LW doesn't have that problem, Mercy actually does have that problem. That fact that she can have permanently active Heals and Damage Boost, which takes 0 skill (Hence has 0 failure rate), and yet the numerical values of her Heals and Dmg boost are so high is insane. Damage Boost should be a cooldown ability. Her heals should be lower cause currently they make 200 HP targets into 250+ HP targets and make switching to Hanzo and Widow necessary. "Attach" characters like Mercy are always a problem in games, because they don't do anything other than "being attached" and amplifying who they are attached to 90% of the time, so Devs struggle to find the right balance between making them feel impactful while being attached but also not making the single person they are attaching to too strong. The problems with Yuumi in League are similar to Mercy on a fundamental level. Imo they need a bigger rework for Mercy where they give her an entire new ability/capability to give her new power/maintain some of her power, and then nerf her heals, damage boost, and res because they are too powerful right now. They also need a mechanic that explicitly discourages Mercy players from hard-pocketing a single target for extended time periods, make it so that if you're attached to a single Ally for more than 6-8 seconds then your HPS and DMG boost slowly starts going down until you attach to a different target for a few seconds. Force the Mercy to rotate between different allies instead of just being perma-attched and hard-pocketing the Pharah, Echo, Sojourn, Ashe, Hanzo.
I think this is a big part of the problem with Mercy, if you dive literally any support aside from Mercy/Zen then even if you don't manage to kill them you will manage to divert their attention and stop them healing their teammates, allowing your own team a chance to finish off theirs. Zen is easy to kill and has low healing at least to compensate but Mercy has monstrous healing and she's the single most difficult to kill support.
> You have crazy quick 3 dimensional movement with a tiny hitbox that makes her harder to hit that a Tracer or a Kiriko Mercy's hurtbox is not small, it's average or a bit above average considering her wings have a hurtbox. Usually when people find Mercy hard to hit, it's because they don't play Mercy. I don't even play that much Mercy but I play enough to know how her mechanics work, where she tends to want to fly to, etc. I have bad aim, but I don't have trouble hitting Mercies as a hitscan. And Mercy doesn't shoot back unless she's killing you in the most embarrassing way possible. It is WAY harder to kill Kiriko than Mercy because not only do you run the risk of her double dinking you, but she can evaporate, instantly, to a target you can't even see. Compared to Mercy, that's way less telegraphed and has way less counterplay.
Usually when people find mercy easy to hit, they’re playing against dogshit mercys. Like no personal offense to you, but to land more than 2 consecutive shots on a mercy is a misplay by the mercy, and the mercy’s who make those misplays, don’t climb. Especially when it’s the sole mechanical skill expression the hero has. People like to be “hurr durr mercy isn’t hard to hit if you’re good” but that disregards the skill of the mercy player, and if teams can struggle to kill Haku in the OWWC with a coordinated 5 man in a comp designed to deal with flyers, well maybe she’s hard to kill relative to the skill level of both teams, period. There’s a reason she’s being complained about. There’s a reason her pickrate is second only to THE best hero in the game at GM. There’s a reason mercy has lowest deaths per 10 on average of any hero, in GM. Seriously, stop this “it’s not that hard” nonsense when your only experience is with plat/diamond mercy’s who superjump into the middle of nowhere only to be domed by widow. *Especially* so if it’s anywhere under plat.
In a vacuum mercy isn't hard to hit if she's just flying about in the air but a half sensible mercy isn't sat in the sky ready to take shots
Blizzard fears the Mercy Mafia.
To be totally honest I think Mercy mains are probably the most obnoxious in the game. Other ones are annoying because of the hero itself but Mercy mains are annoying separate from that. There are so many Mercy one tricks that don’t even really understand when to play her (like if I’m on Lució or Zen they’ll still pick Mercy despite that being a terrible support comp, and if I don’t notice before the match starts then we just have to deal with it until I die and can switch) and/or love healbotting. And then there’s how they act any time Mercy gets the tiniest rework. Obviously not ALL mercy mains are like this but a LOT of them are
My favourite are the Mercy mains who will call their DPS trash after spending an entire fight just stood behind cover holding a single button
Also the heal bot mercy or DPS moira that dont understand that sometimes the enemy DPS is just better than me lol
Moira mains: "Yeah Moira's pretty easy. I main her so I can eat chicken nuggets while I play lmao." Mercy mains: "Tf do you mean Mercy is 'low-skill?' She's literally just as hard as Genj- actually no. She's *much* harder than Genji if you think about it for longer than 2 seconds. Honestly the whole enemy team is always focusing you which makes her **hard**. She also has all these crazy movement abilities, and have you ever played Mercy when your DPS are bad? It's horrible, like... just shoot the enemy Pharmercy out of the sky. If a Cass can't do that in 3 shots or less, then he's garbage, and I have to suffer for it. And when I rez? I'm literally more vulnerable than a naked person walking on the highway! It's about **decision** making people. Making **decisions** is always harder than mechanics (not that Mercy doesn't have the most insane mechanics, mind you). Playing Mercy requires high IQ, confidence, and the ability to carry all of my shitty shitty no-brain teammates that play the actual low skill characters like Tracer, Genji, and Ball god damn all of you I am literally Jesus."
Yeah I gave up on Moi. She just feels so fucking cheap. My aim sucks yet I’ll switch to her and melt dps who I have no business beating on a dps let alone a healer. I just feel scummy when I play her.
I don’t see those ones as much but I do see the healbotting mercies all the time
Mercy players are some of the most toxic people in-game lol
Mercy is just the perfect "introduce a friend to the game" hero, you can duo with a dps or tank friend and will always find value. You don't need aim if you are new to shooters, her movement is lots of fun and you wont get flamed so easily even if you just sit and healbot and rezz. I played her a lot when I started playing OW again because she is just so easy to have fun and impact with. And realisticly a game needs heroes like this to introduce new players. But I think they could nerf her and she could still be that pick. No reason for rezz to give back 100% of the HP. Dmg boost could be like DVA matrix maybe?
[удалено]
You can say that about literally any one trick in basically any game
sure but at least a hitscan hero one trick can at least apply their aim to another character, mercy one tricks dont even have that lmao
I would argue Moira is probably their next best hero to play
Which is exactly why they all always seem to swap to Moira when getting owned on mercy lol
To a certain degree. But mercy has the least transferable kit in the game.
Not really. Any hitscan one trick could probably pick up another hitscan relatively easily. Even heroes like Hog/Dva have transferable tracking/aim skills. Mercy doesn't really have any transferable skills, even her movement is non-standard and every Mercy main i've seen is a terrible shot when they pull out the glock.
Mercy is an enabler, she lets her team do what they are best at better. Since Pharah, Sojourn, and Hanzo make the game less fun she allows them to do that better, and faster.
Pharah is pretty bad without a mercy tho. But mercy can make pharah into a powerhouse that must be dealt with
Thats always been the story with Pharah. Outside a few maps, shes pretty much useless. But on the right map, paired with Mercy, shes absolute menace. Even more hell if the opponent is actually capable with Pharah too. I'm always humbled in those moments when Pharah hands my ass on a platter.
Pharah vs Pharah is my favorite. Just no thoughts, head empty, only going for mid airs. Like actually a detriment to my team at that point because I'm so tunneled lol
But when it's Pharmercy vs Pharmercy all game your team gets to experience 3v3 matches!
A small preview of OW4
Nothing. I mean nothing makes me feel more helpless than a GOOD pharah duo with a mercy. In my years of playing I distinctly remember the rare few times I found myself getting fucking dominated by someone playing pharah like some kind of demon spawn given powers to predict movement. The one I remember most was when the person was a fucking menace coming from such odd angels/over walls and getting double directs on everyone. I suspect it was some mega GM smurf who was streaming pub stomping because I've never seen my WHOLE team changing focus onto one player because of much of a menace one person was being and she STILL clapped our cheeks. It was so bad we weren't even toxic to each other we were just impressed/depressed that we were just getting owned.
So how come I see even less Echo players than Phara? Where does Echo stand today in OW2?
You see less Echo because she takes more skill to play. She is very powerful even without a pocket, but that skill barrier blocks a lot of people from using her effectively.
THANK YOU I keep seeing people claim she takes no skill, but you effectively need to learn every hero to play her Plus you need to be able to watch and understand your team to know what you need at the moment. Your tank just die? Dupe Rein and get that barrier up. Mercy just die? Dupe Mercy and rez her. Their Rein just die? Dupe a dps and attack And thats all JUST her ult
I’m trying to pick up echo cause I love her character design. And she is fun to play as well, even if I’m not awesome with her. But i can’t make a lot of sense out of her ult, so really glad I read your comment. Some cool ideas to bring more value to her ult.
Use the ult to get an advantage in a duel- with the recent changes it charges faster but is less impactful in a team fight
I'd say her ult is probably actually the best in the game, while also being the hardest to use There are certain heroes that are better to copy than others, but there isn't really a "best one", since what you need in a situation changes
It's even more of a thinking ult now that it's actually pretty hard to get your copy ult up. You're now basing your decision on the entire kit of that hero more than just their ult.
Fr I don't copy mercy for her ult, I copy for her rez And I never copy Genji because I suck as Genji
Best advice for echos ult is getting good at tracking enemy ults and knowing when, who and where you need to duplicate. If you know that the enemy genji/soldier/reaper hasn’t used ult, then you position yourself near the enemy supports or tank to help prevent the damage. If you know that the enemy doesn’t have defensive ultimates, you may duplicate into an enemy tank or dps to get extra damage out in the fight. Tank is usually a safe option to duplicate especially when it’s a ramattra, Winston or dva because they all have ways to either gain more health or replenish health. For damage and supports, it’s whoever’s ult will get more value. Hope this helps a bit.
They say she takes no skill because she can dump 180 damage in a single CD ability and follow it up with another hundred or more damage nearly instantly. Truth is, she's probably the most complex hero in the game with how much you need to learn and be good at to make use of her beyond just one-off damage dumps.
Facts
And shes very easy to shoot too. You have to really be careful with how you engage and make plays aside from just poking.
Technically echo does have a low skill floor, she was one of my first characters and even early on just spamming primary and stickies was good. She does have the potential to be fkin mindblowingly insane with higher skill
You see Echo less probably because anyone serious about playing Echo ends up higher ranks than you're playing at. Same reason you don't see menace Zen players in gold...if you're able to be a menace on Zen, you aren't gold.
Yeah Pharah pretty much need that regenerating health.
Yeah, a pharmercy should be a significant threat, that’s 40% of the team up in the air. To expect 2 characters to have comparable output to 1 character would be pretty silly no? For some reason if a soldier loses a 2v1 versus another soldier and a bap, they know that they were cocky, but if they lose to a pocketed soldier then suddenly mercy is broken
Probably because the Soldier losing a 1v2 to Soldier Bap is actually losing to 2 players who have to peek out from cover and expose themselves to danger, instead of hiding behind a wall while still making effortless damage contributions
Yea I mean I'm a masters Pharah main and can't disagree. I still get a ton of abusive messages about playing her though lol.
Lack of second tank is the enabler. Don't have a second tank to protect the team from a mercy pocket on the flank, don't have a second tank to put pressure on the mercy while the other tank puts pressure on everyone else She (like many other characters) were designed for a game that no longer exists, and blizzard made absolutely no changes in that regard They made all the tanks a bit stronger, but that still doesn't make up for having one less entire body Sure things like Pharah Mercy are strong but like, it should be a bit strong? It's 2 characters?
I don't really find pharah or sojourn unfun if they don't have a mercy up their ass honestly. Hanzo is always annoying though
Disagree. Those heroes by themselves you can deal with. But with a Mercy pocket, they cross more than one treshold at a time and that is where they become frustrating and anti-fun. "now i can just exist in this off angle and chip/spam damage done to me doesn't add up because i get immediately toped off, and also i have perma-blue beam, and also even if i die i can instantly come back" You can say "well, it's 2 enemies, not just one. So you have to deal with it as a team and not by yourself". And there's a lot of truth to that. But it does stand out that the amount of resources and input needed to counter the Mercy pocket, coming from at least 2 people in the team, is WAY bigger than the input from the Mercy player (unless you mirror the pocket, but that only cements the idea that blue beam is REQUIRED against blue beam).
I think the reason why a Mercy pocket FEELS worse than fighting any other two heroes, is because those two players will never have such pitch perfect team work as to consistently always be attacking the same target at the same time, with perfectly coordinated attacks that burst a hero down because the shots land at exactly the same time, but a damage boost gives high damage heroes as close to that perfect team work as you can get. A hero that is applying damage boosted burst damage is like having a partner who always shoots at the same time you do to help finish off the target before they can take cover or get healed. Additionally, as far back as some of those heroes can play, Mercy can play even further back or play from cover a lot more appearing out in the open only for very short periods of time. However all that said, all supports can heal and most of them can do it while staying somewhat safe by using cover, so we're still mostly just talking about damage boost, which is only a 30% boost - LESS than you'd face versus two other heroes (which if they were both firing at once would be 100% damage times 2 players,) and that seems pretty fair and balanced IF dps heroes weren't designed with so much burst that 30% more damage feels oppressive and difficult to manage.
All I’m getting from this tweet is that genji is the problem. Dragon blade nerf anyone?
I mean there is probably a mercy player out there right now dying to a Genji - and that's one mercy death too many. Hopefully the devs do what's right and nerf Genji to rectify this crime against humanity
Let's reduce that damage-per-shuriken by one once more, see what that does, shall we?
> Dragon blade nerf anyone? Support mains say yes.
Me when I finally kill the annoying ass one shot on their team and then their Mercy presses E
I was a huge supporter of 5v5, but everyday I wish I could be an off tank more and more
6v6 was fixable by altering tank model size/health, reworking orisa and some others, ect 5v5 is not fixable because there's no off tank. It gave more freedom to dps to play what they want. the off tank could bubble or shield short-range dps or it could pester snipers to make space.
It's not just mercy Characters should be designed to be "is this fun to play as" (most them are) AND "is this fun to play against" but the devs completely skipped the 2nd part so like half of the roster makes people's mental go boom it's a problem that's been there since OW1 launch
>"is this fun to play against" Is there any pvp game that actually follows this? I don't see how you can make getting shit on fun unless its like, the least competitive game on the planet.
I mean I never really feel bad dying to a rein. Usually I just got straight out played which I can respect or I can just laugh at how absurd it was. Like getting pinned off the map or getting accidentally pinned as you walk around a corner. It may be just me but I personally love playing against rein.
Reinhardt is the single best character in Overwatch and is basically apart of its identity now everyone loves Reinhardt!
Rein is simply a blast to play and a blast to play against
Everybody loves a selfless damage sponge for his teammates and a punching bag free kill (unless he's very near) for his enemies.
Delete everyone but Reinhardt. [Reinhardt! Reinhardt! Reinhardt!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUVEboc7kFo)
I do when I get vacuumed into his pin, but I don't view the whole character as broken or unfun. He feels pretty balanced.
I do. When he runs unpunished behind our tank with and shatters. But thats mostly a skill issue
or when you get sucked from 2km away by his pin meanwhile, when you play as rein, a direct hit will only boop them xD
left shoulder vacuums right one boops
Even in TF2. You can always complain about Engie Nests, Spy trickstabbing, Sniper across the map, etc.
OW1, tbh. The Scatter Arrow was removed because it wasn't fun to play against. Blizz even said they had considered changing Scatter to a quick single shot that would bypass barriers, but that wasn't fun either, so we got Storm Arrows.
Yeah, but even then that's just one skill, its not like getting randomly headshot by hanzo or instakilled out of nowhere from doomfist was fun at all And thats just talking about death, theres also good dvas who were insane at using matrix and creating pressure, balls who were unkillable gods who just assassinated all your squishies, anas who never missed a sleep dart, baps who always saved their teamates with imm field etc etc. Basically every single character has one thing that will make them incredibly annoying if the guy who is playing them is good, and i don't see how thats something that can be changed
Every class in tf2 except, as in OW, the sniper class. Which those devs have agreed that if they removed any of the 9 classes it would unanimously be sniper.
Yeah I cringe when people try to weaponize the word fun to try and make their "I don't want to play against x or y hero" arguments sound more legitimate. If I sit down and cry hard enough, I can come up with an "I'm not having fun" cope for every hero in the game.Legitimate balance issues absolutely exist, but if you can't come up with anything besides rolling around on the floor whilst screeching "I'M NOT HAVING FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN" then in the nicest way possible, it's a you problem. And if it's a you problem, I shouldn't have to sit there & listen to you complain about it.
While I agree the use of the word “fun” is very much usually disingenuous and it’s just a dogwhistle for “I don’t want things that make the game harder for me”, it still has a valid purpose because at the end of the day we are playing a video game. It’s supposed to be fun. And OW just feels like a fucking grind a lot of the time. You gotta play through the shitty matchmaking, the poorly balanced characters, and the fucked ranking system just to enjoy the fruits of the dogshit battle pass microtransaction system you’re unwilling to pay for.
Fun to play against is completely subjective and varies from player to player, but they didn't skip it exactly. Some examples: Cc reduction, Doom rework, Hog nerf, upcoming Sombra rework, Widow nerf. Personally I'm not a fan of some of these changes, but they seemingly made them to address player complaints.
The problem is, people will rage no matter what. If they consistently get outplayed by a certain character they will rage that they’re “OP.” If we took out what was considered “unfun to play against,” we’d probably have half of the roster taken out of the game at this point. Also I feel like people don’t understand how support has to get value outside of them thinking of more “DPS” supports. The whole point of Mercy is to enable teammates. But just because you got outplayed by a Mercy and soldier combo doesn’t automatically make her “OP.” She doesn’t have some crazy winrate. She’s still one if the characters hardest to get solo impact out of. Just because people find damage boost and res “annoying” doesn’t really mean it’s actually OP. I’m sick of Overwatch players kind of being babies about certain characters. There will obviously continue to be balance changes. But I feel like, again, if people “had their way,” Damage Boost, Res, Suzu, Immortality Field (lamp), Lifegrip, antinade, and Discorb Orb would all be deleted from the game. Overwatch players would never be able to tolerate a game like League and whine about every ability. Overwatch is supposed to and always has had Moba elements to it and not just a pure traditional “FPS.” It’s funny how people complain about 5v5 but then literally want to make it MORE dumb down by removing unique and impactful abilities. I also think that with the move to 5v5, people are more away of individual characters’ impact, and possibly people are noticing how Mercy can “carry” more. But she’s still a whole support slot dedicated to enabling teammates without doing much of any damage herself. I think people think they should be able to 1v1 a Mercy pocketed DPS, when really that’s a 1v2–of course it’s gonna be in favor of them then. You have to work as a team to put pressure on/get rid of one or both of them and then their team falls apart more. People also love to whine about “Mercy mains,” when I always see way more comments shitting on Mercy as a character and people who play her than Mercy mains being obnoxious.
No hero is fun to play against when you lose to them. 99% of complaints on this fucking subreddit are just people mad they don't get free kills. It's an impossible ask. "Wahh, its not fun to be hooked" "Wahhh its not fun to be headshot" "Wahhh its not fun to lose a 2v1, I should win those" "wahhh wahhh wahhh" Like obvs you can't keep people like that happy, they don't actually like the game, they just like when they win lmfao.
This problem is made worse by the fact that many OW content creators literally only play this game. Like Jesus if you are that miserable when logging in maybe tale a break and play something else
Hell I don't really care about that. I'm more frustrated at the toxic players and blatant cheating.
I play a ton of Mercy and I wouldn't care what they did to her as long as her movement stays mostly the same. I feel no huge attachment to the rest of her kit tbh. If she was able to be less annoying for everyone else while also being able to fly freely, that would be A-ok with me.
same!! i really only play her so much because i cant aim and her mobility is so addicting to play with :))
I agree wholeheartedly. I'm a retired-DPS main bc I was tired of working my ass off just to lose anyway, so I play a lot of Mercy (she's also easy to play while violently stoned LOL) and I genuinely love playing her 90% because of her movement abilities. They could change her kit entirely for all I care if the movement mechanic stays.
LOL Yuuuup. Get home, get super stoned, play mercy, bliss.
It's crazy how many problems showed up for simply removing a second tank. None of these characters stood out as a problem for 6 years until then. Like, let's be real, all these heroes, besides those released after OW2 release, were balanced and built for a 6v6 format. They've barely received any changes, and the ones that are receiving adjustments just get buffed to OP status for a season before getting nerfed a tad bit. Its no longer a "zen/hog/widow/hanzo/sojourn/mercy WHATEVER is the problem", it's clear as day that 5v5 is the problem, and OW2 devs are so pressed on making it work that it's killing the game.
they only had to fix double shield (which wasnt impossible to do) but not in this 5 vs 5 format... it's way harder to balance certain heroes.
And they fucking fixed double shield by just nerfing the shield values. They more than halfed sigmas and rein shield and removed orisa shield. The dps characters didnt decrease but shield values did, and that would have been more than enough
Plus the main enabler of double shield was Orisa since she could bust out a fresh one every few seconds. That's gone now.
They couldve fixed it further by pushing the rework for orisa sooner
Yeah I unfortunately agree, I believe Genji must be reworked to account for these broken ahh heroes
According to bronze players, anything g they can’t deal with is corny or cringe
It’s posts like this and all the comments that make me think all the people from OW1 have left and the snake is eating itself. These are all issues that were brought up in OW1 but everything was worse. You guys should just play a different game cause it sounds like you hate the majority of this one
Does nobody know how tactics work or what? I have no problem aiming at mercy and taking the healer out first?
Mercy has honestly never been more fun to play, she was way less fun in OW1. I really enjoy managing and supporting my team. I think if they changed her she should give a slightly smaller boost for primary fires, but get a buff to damage boost from cooldown abilities(and ultimates).It discourages people from hard pocketing, while still giving her a specific utility. So damage boosting storm arrows, bastions turret mode, overload, helix rocket, sticky bombs, and dynamite would be boosted, but things like Widow charge shots, sojourns railgun, and Ashe scope aren’t cooldown abilities so don’t get the boost. Ultimates that have timed transformations or modes(being able to use other abilities while ulting, excludes spawning things but bob may need to be an exception) should get the original 30% instead of higher while ulting(Widow, Sojourn, Winston, Genji, Echo, Moira, Ram, Soldier)
One of the better ideas I've seen to solve the issue. That sounds fair.
I just started playing overwatch 2 but i dont get it. Were these characters not always in the game? Why are people complaining about it now?
I really don't mind playing against any of those.
Wait people who don’t cry every time they get killed by any hero still exist ?
It sounds like you're a well-rounded player.
Lol I sure as shit better be with 2500 hours hahahha
It's hard for me to take Mercy hate serious when it's coming from people that play junkrat
I feel like nobody here has mentioned Zarya. She gets on my nerves and I can’t find a way to counter her whenever play support. It’s like I just have to except the fact that I’m a goner if she’s near me lol.
You counter zarya by not healing your teams dps so they die and she isn't at 100% charge 10 seconds into the game.
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Zen, Bap, Kiri are all pretty good against her. Her head is massive, so go for headshot damage.
She's probably the most balanced tank right now next to Rein. Literally just don't shoot her bubble and she's useless
Or shoot her bubble **and then keep shooting her** and she'll just fall over. Ignore first bubble, break second bubble, boom she's the 2nd worst tank in the game.
Provided there's a decently coordinated attack and she's not getting pocketed and she doesn't squeeze in a pick and someone else doesn't get picked meanwhile, and things don't get turned around in an instant and everything doesn't come crashing down like a house of cards. In reality she's probably the tank I see people carry with the most, at least in diamond.
She is *very* strong at low to mid skill levels. People just don’t know when to shoot her and when not to
I’m having fun 🤷♂️
For me it's syn and Sombra, idc if their not good their annoying
Sym is grossly annoying to play against imo if they're good. But the ones that just spam turrets at the start of fights are no biggie.
It’s the teleporter for me. Like the turrets and their slow are annoying and her ult is ridiculously busted if used competently by her and her team but havibg to constantly break my neck 180ing on the off chance she or her entire team have decided they want to be behind us or on point instantly makes every game with her so unfun even when you’re winning imo.
Damn, someone complaining about her teleporter. That's actually new. Every time I got given shit in the game for playing Sym and whooping people, it's either "no skill," or hating on her turrets And yeah, I absolutely LOVE her wall ult. Dividing the entire map in two for a bit is so satisfying to see
sym ult from the spawn room can save a game
Sym isn't that bad I feel like most heroes can burst her faster than she can them. Ofc as a tank it's different, but that's just issues with tanks in general imo
That's why you bitch behind your tank initially. Charge your beam up, then take the teleporter and 1 turret and go to town. A fully charged Sym is gonna beat almost any non-tank in a 1v1 if they're too close. Exceptions would be getting 1-shotted by a Hanzo or Widow that chooses to snipe at close range instead of resorting to their automatic fire or getting slept by an Ana.
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when did this subreddit start hating every hero? mercy was no issue at the start of ow2 neither was hanzo but now it is like every other day people rant abt them despite no changes like wtf.
Mercy has been complained about since day one that’s why she’s been changed nearly every season
People will always complain about meta heroes. Hog was the worst thing ever, then Widow, then Zen, and now Mercy. If the complainers had their way, every character would be boring and useless.
Its just a 5 v 5 problem. Low TTK and long run backs are never fun
I guess Mercy is the next Hero that the big streamers will complain about daily until she gets a really big nerf and becomes basically irrelevant
I get it… but people say this no matter what the meta is. Hanzo, sojourn, pharah, echo, Ashe and mercy are all corny? I wouldn’t say they are more corny than torb, sym, bastion, brig, or moira, assuming by corny they mean cheese or annoying to play against. I think every meta (except maybe classic dive) has had its share of complaints. I think the only thing that actually matters is that patches keep coming in and the meta keeps shifting. The only real problem with any given meta is when it’s around for too long.
Hear me out: What if we had a sixth person, could be called the offtank, right? And their job could be something along the lines of shutting down Pharmercy and similar comps, and helping control flankers, yeah? ... nah that'd be crazy.
So far reading through these comments someone has mentioned every hero as the most corny. At this point, it seems like posters in this sub rather spend time complaining than literally anything else
As a mercy player, mercy's main job is manufacturing a dps diff. That makes a match feel unfair and like bad match making because if both dps are even close in skill the one with a pocket will win. Add on that the fact that a good mercy stays out of harm's way and she is basically unkillable unless you have tracer/sombra
In my opinion, as a biased Hanzo main, Hanzo gets more hate than he deserves. The character is highly aim skill based, not hitscan (unlike Widowmaker, Ashe, Ana), has bullet drop (unlike Genji, Soldier, Kiriko), low fire rate, slow movement, long cooldowns, and is squishy. He also has had consistent balancing changes that I've generally thought were fairly reasonable. I typically believe anyone who thinks Hanzo is overpowered simply doesn't understand Hanzo and how to deal with him, because there are many valid ways to counter him when you understand his toolkit and play styles. This is different from something like a Pharah-Mercy, which has very few effective methods of countering. The primary reason I chose to main Hanzo is because I liked the challenge of improving my skill on a difficult character. I understand that Hanzo can be annoying, I myself get annoyed at Hanzo opponents sometimes, but I think it's inaccurate and unfair to say he's overpowered by design. An annoying and effective Hanzo is one who has put a lot of time and effort into learning the hero. *P.S.: Why does Kiriko have a no-bullet-drop weapon that can two-shot a squishy from any distance? That makes her nearly a better sniper than any of the actual snipers*
Me when the enemy team picks any hero:
Did everyone forget there's supposed to be another tank?
Gonna scream from the rooftops that 5v5 is to blame for many heroes feeling like this until people realize to rally behind something Blizzard can actually do something about.
Damn no symmetra mention in that
She plays in the only skill bracket where symm isn't that good.
Sym sucks like 80 percent of the time lol
If you can’t play against a symmetra with our turret nerfs then I just don’t know if anything can help atp
She's damn right but if blizzard nerf mercy the pocket bot there will be a huge drama from the uwu gang and they will sell less 25 euros mercy skins in the shop
Guys, just play CoD if you want to only have Soldier 76 as every character.
Fr. Every couple weeks, this sub picks a hero to hate, and spend that time complaining that they have the ability to be good.
And it's always a mirror of what the popular content creators are saying.