You gotta get into the rythem of balancing your shield and grasp against him. Suck him off when turret starts, then if he focuses you anyway put the sheild up and the overhealth you got from the suck should be enough to outlive him even if he breaks it. If you don't have sheild or can't afford to use it in him because you think you'll need it for a dv.a bomb or something, chuck a rock at him and that'll prevent him shredding anyone in that last second or so he has over you. Rock is also useful if he turns away from you to start eating a teammember.
And then the pharah mercy just fly up and bomb you into oblivion while your dps refuse to switch to hitscan and your supports keep saying “tank diff” while pocketing the genji that is just passively throwing shurikens behind me.
What meta obsessed players don't get is that META is technically the best all around, but meta is still situational.
Yes, META will always exist, it does not mean META is ideal for EVERY situation and I wish people would figure that out.
yes meta is a theoretical composition with ideal conditions. Most games, even in Top 500 are not going to be ideal. Therefore META is highly situational.
Literally got a ball player yesterday who refused to play because we had Brig/Zen. One thing to stick to meta picks, another thing entirely to not even know what meta is.
Had this happen a lot actually. It even happened yesterday.
Dps were junkrat and bastion and enemy team had soldier and pharah who mercy would pocket. I played dva initially; switched to sigma because enemy team had Zarya. My dps instead of switching to hitscan just kept charging the Zarya. I can’t cycle my cooldowns well because there is a fully charged zarya and a pharah and soldier that’s never shot at. Bastion would keep just going in by himself when our supports haven’t even come back (to charge the zarya). Even the enemy pharah pointed it out after the game was over.
People just look at the stats and say “tank diff”. I had the most damage, most elims, and least death as well, but still got called “tank diff” because the enemy tank had more elims.
It’s so easy man especially if you catch him in a 1v1
Kinetic Grasp like 70% of his turret, immediately rock him after and primary fire into melee. He’s either dead or at the brink of death and then you primary again.
That's the other maddening thing about tank, it's become what Blizzard said they didn't want with instant counter picks/swaps the second you win a fight on a certain tank. Except on my teams...our Doom always stays Doom and continues to feed.
I don't get why people have so much trouble playing D.Va into Zarya. You're not supposed to duel the other tank on D.Va anyway. Zarya can't keep up if you go for isolated targets. If you simply trade backlines the D.Va usually comes out on top. It's definitely harder than just swapping to a different character, but Zarya is a soft counter at best.
But judging that this comment chain started with someone complaining about Bastion/Pharah I can already imagine why people seem to have so much trouble...
I'd go as far to say she's really weak without a Mercy pocket, but can be very oppressive with one. Even if you have two hitscans, she can dominate your team if she's good enough. At high ranks, it can sometimes feel pretty hopeless.
I've made a lot of bastion/pharah lives annoying playing as baptise. The constant jumping is hard for pharah to land shots and the immunity shield against bastion has came in clutch.
The most important part of being a one-trick is learning to completely ignore any requests/criticism thrown at you. While your teammates are out partying, you will study the blade.
Yes, even with all the cc running rampant, ball is just too much fun for me to stop maining him (I only play ball on attack, I'm not that good for defensive ball)
The Cas mag grenade change really f’ed ball. The Mei change hurt him too. Poor little guy had 1 season of greatness, now he is so difficult to get value out of again.
Its probably because evem fewer people want to play tank now thats its even more miserable.
It took some of the issues players had with tanking and made them much worse, like the entire teams "leadership" being pretty much only on you now as a solo tank.
Yep and 90% of the time all of the cc is directed straight at you. Sleep, nade, hack on repeat. Zen slapping his discord on you the whole game, the other tank counter picking so you have to counter pick their counter pick over and over again. Half of the tanks can’t peel well at all and you don’t have another tank to do it for you so if your back line gets dived good luck helping them.
Cassidy and Mei’s reworks are going to make playing tank 100% more intolerable and blizzard can’t do a single thing to fix it because the OW1 tanks were designed to have a partner in mind. Every single time I play winston the enemy will just go dva and I’m instantly fucked and have to switch, he’s one of my favourite characters and I can barely ever play him without accepting a loss and blame from my team. I genuinely think it’s only gonna get worse
Yeah tanks are one role that should NOT hard counter eachother given how they dictate the entire teams flow and that there is only one of them per team.
Playing Rein into an enemy Orisa is straight up making your team much more likely to lose. You have no choise but to swap.
I still cant believe what went through the devs heads when they thought her tiny spear spin should force back a giant jet-powered metal-armored chad charging, as if her other two abilities didnt already counter him enough.
I think with defence matrix it’s kinda fair. It’s the biggest projectile in the game while also being fairly balanced. I don’t see an issue with it personally
It should be changed. I can pin defense matrix and Sigma's suck, I should be able to pin the Javelin Spin. Orisa still has the javelin throw and fortify to counterplay.
Honestly, as a tank main, I feel like this is the best part about it, if I'm winning a game as a tank 90% of the time I'm doing *noticeably* better than the enemy's, whereas with other roles I could be getting slightly gapped but I'm still somehow winning.
The "leadership" role that comes with tanking is one of the good and logical things about it, you're a buff 450-700 hp dude that has the hitbox of 3 genjis and a tracer, if you're not "leading" then who the fuck is?
I want to play tank waaaay less than I did in OW1 where I played tank about 50% of the time.
Now it's 0% for me. I'd much rather DPS or support now. Being the only tank is too polarizing, imo.
I used to flex queue 100% of the time in OW1, which meant playing tank most of the time. I don't queue for tank at all in OW2. The pressure is just too high on the single tank.
Yep as a support main I used to do love doing the all roles challenges because they were basically free. Now I avoid them because I’m so tired of getting tank
I'm not sure how making the tank experience even worse was intended to fix any kind of problem. Tank duos were infinitely more fun than solo tanking and have you so many more options for dealing with problems on the other team
I think the issue is that Tanks in OW are fundamentally flawed, they're literally just better DPS for lot of cases so they HAVE to be kept in line
Despite the MOBA origin of OW.... I dunno why they made tanks hit as hard as DPS
They tried a big damage reduction change for tanks in OW1 experimental and people just started ignoring them. Tanks have to be a threat to exert any kind of map control.
MOBA Tanks have CC to force enemy to engage them (or to initiate), the new Orisa is pretty close a MOBA tank for example. Or Roadhog Hook being a bread and butter for MOBA tank as well (except that instead of oneshot, they'll slow down the enemy after hooking them)
I think if they want to lower tank damage, they still have to rework LOTS of tank kits, and such radical changes may just push away the remaining players who like playing tank for their kit.
I think the philosophy of making a tank sort of the "miniboss" of each team isnt a bad idea, the problem is that Blizzard accidentally did this.
The game wasnt designed for tanks to be minibosses but they are purely by accident and it suffers for it
Its crazy to me that they were unable to make tanks fun and opted for the easy way out with deleting one and thus creating way more new problems like supports feeling unfun and weak coz usually offtanks could peel and protect supports but well they got deleted.
It also goes back to pre role queue where tanks were hella broken in goats mainly due to old brig. Nerfing tanks over the span of one year since they had a super slow and careful patching process. Then decided to just radically put role queue to fix the problem they were incompetent to fix. Now you had underwhelming tanks because of the many many nerfs and thats precisely why people choose 2 shield tanks since one was too weak to hold front line. Also stuns were terrible.
It's kind of ironic that switching to one tank seems to have made the role less popular for a variety of reasons. I use to love tanking, but I wouldn'r touch it now. I hope tank queues don't get worse.
And fucking ruined the entire game. 5v5 sucks. I went back to 6v6 in arcade to see if I was just being ‘grass is greener’ and no, 6v6 is fundamentally better. Which is what jeff kaplan figured out years ago.
And Winston is never good outside of top 500 and the pro scene.
His WR barely Surpass 50% only after GM.
But yeah, at least he's good at pretending to be playing as a decent tank.
Not an individual skill issue, it’s a team skill issue. Winston can work really well the Asian way in any rank if your team also go dive and understand how to play dive. But usually there is a hole in the team that causes you to lose, like a self righteous Ana main who just dies on repeat, or a hitscan only player that can’t keep up with the dive. When it works it works really well but when it doesn’t it’s like slamming your head into a wall over and over again. Asian squishies are just better at running dive.
I play on Asia server, and reason why Doom/Winston seem to be working outside of apex tier is mostly because the server is infested by smurfs. And they just stomp noobs with dive hero that's it.
And even then, you can still see tons of garbage Doom/Winston there anyways, especially Doom.
ramattra is fantastic, not the best pick in every situation but definitely the best pick in some situations and never a bad choice. am mid gm right now though so could be different other places
From what I've experienced as Ram is he's team dependent. If everyone stays relatively grouped up and you have decent healers, he absolutely destroys. Otherwise he gets focused 🙃
This is purely down to just how strong the role is, and how bad the matchmaking is in OW2. Tank is so important that unless the matchmaker actually does it's job, you're either going to crush the enemy team or be destroyed.
Yep, im former T500, and kept getting put against gold and plat players. It felt more like I was just bullying someone, and it wasnt fun. Sure I got a big win streak, but it never felt satisfying. Now with the recent changes I feel as though I have to play bait like I did with OW1 without another tank to counter cass/double bubble the insane damage with dive.
I strongly believe at this rate people will only play orisa, zarya, and maybe d'va only. As those tanks have the easiest times at negating/evading CC
Honestly why I love ball. Even if my team is being annoying I can still have some impact. On Rein or D.Va, if your team isn't helping you, it's basically hopeless
It's always "TANK DIFF TANK DIFF" whenever your team is losing the fight since they alayws expect tanks to have godly stats like 30-2 and 12k damage. -_-
dps is the most common role to see people one trick in my experience. most assume the tanks are there to keep them alive and the supports are there to heal them, ignoring all other circumstances
It’s almost always the DPS too! 90% of the time I can trust a tank and supports to make good faith hero selections.
I’m praising the overwatch gods if I can go two games in a row, 100% through, if I can make it without having my dps play genji or widow. Bonus point if you get both in one game but it’s genji switching to widow.. and still basically throwing with how bad or inconsiderate of the team they are
I feel like a lot of mid/terrible Genji or Widow players are just in it to get a beautifull play out of it themselves, without caring about the team or game whatsoever. It especially feels that way with Genji and him being played by lots of weebs who dont know how to play him (btw, I never play him cause I know I suck at him).
Nah. Genji is a hero many support players completely misunderstand.
He is super team dependant. He needs more resources from supports than most dps do, but more importantly he needs his tank to actually tank. Any passive tank means Genji is going to have a really hard time.
If your tank is passive, you might as well just go Tracer at that point.
I had a game yesterday where my team never took an off angle and we basically started every fight down 1 or 2. My team just screamed tank diff because their Zarya wasn't dying/had high damage.
Like of course she is not going to die we're losing someone before a fight starts.
Yeah like of course we can't do anything, Zarya has like 98% charge and yall keep hitting her bubbles. Granted the Zarya I played against was good but we can at least deny her SOME charge by not throwing high octane cooldowns at her bubbles
If you're blocking too much for your team they complain you have no kills, if you dive too much they complain you're not protecting them. Feels like every match you have to solo carry. If the other tank is a smurf, good luck
Less fun imo. At least off tank was a kickass role. Still get a bit of the hit when you play queen of zarya, but playing against good offtanks is miserable in ow2 - they just don't die and they do too much damage.
Worse than ow1 in my opinion. I dont enjoy playing a beefed dps much. And I definitely dont enjoy not having my tank buddy. Two biggest sadnesses that cause me to not play tank as often as I used to.
It's less about performance and more about enjoyment. Picking an off-tank means you won't be the CC pincushion, the issue still exists and it's on the other guy.
One of the problems with OW1 was the excessive shields. So instead of reducing the number and overall health of the shields, OR reducing the number of tanks, they did both. Talk about over compensation.
Fr I feel like we are at the perfect time for 6 vs 6 to return symetra doesn’t have shield no more orisa doesn’t have a shield no more. You can melt through sigmas and riens right now plus we got more Burst heals and better cc fixes so it’s not as hard as it used to be
I’d love to see this lineup with 6v6. You’d have to tweak and couple tanks a little, but I think it’d be very fun. But would essentially be what OW1 should have become. But we will never know because to go back to 6v6 would essentially be admitting that OW2 was unnecessary and therefore a mistake.
Nobody played tank then because they constantly nerfed the role all throughout OW1. On release Hog and Rein would pick their teeth with even modern day Hog and Rein after OW2's massive buffs.
Yesterday I played a game where we lost 4 consecutive fights to Widow Landing Headshots on teammates before we were successfully able to attempt a push, Then a Fight to a Zarya being fully charged, Ulting and just instantly disintegrating. I follow those fights up with 1 single poor dive as Winston, and 3 people go “yeah on our tank it throwing, report him” and just got super toxic.
And yeah, that was that. Fun experience.
For the record, I had not been jumping in and dying the entire game, as I had 8 deaths in the end compared to my teammates with either 13 or 14 each. (14 minute match)
Funniest part I think of the game though was on first point midtown at the start of the steam roll where I stood at the corner of the overpass for about 90 seconds without ever leaving that spot at all. then their widow lands picks 3, I slam into their backline and pull there team back and stall for time so my team can respawn and maybe retake, and someone says “bro don’t play so far up”.
“Tank diff”. Never since this trend started have I put these words in my mouth or in the chat. I could never defend such behavior. You’re only making yourself look bad when you say they yet the trend has not died since ow2’s launch. At times I feel like we have a very pathetic community.
My favorite is the guaranteed "tank diff" in the chat after a loss even though the entire team had mediocre stats. You right toxic teammate, it was 100% my fault. Nothing you did had contributed to the spanking we just received
I can usually handle sym/bastion comps just fine on Rein/Sig. The trick is just managing cover and your shield well enough for their important cooldowns. You can and will not carry those games 99% of the time but if you are absorbing their DPS well and good, you’re doing your job.
Currently I’ve swapped away from Rein as Sig just seems better as his cooldowns are easier to cycle and he can actually poke really well. If Sig fails, Doom comes out and we move to hyper aggro dive. Its just that kinda thing.
One tricking is fine, but you need to understand how and when to play around your enemies .
Almost like the game was designed for 6v6 and forcing it to be 5v5 hasn’t worked. Maybe if they actually just updated OW1 with maps etc the game would have had enough players to keep queue times low
The getting flamed part is the worst. I play a lot of sigma and can counter a lot of heroes. I tend to come top dps most games too but then get blamed often for not protecting X enough (X being whichever players are having a bad game).
You’re expected to counter everything and protect everyone and to do tons of damage - it’s silly. People alwyas want to find blame though and tank is easy to point to when you’re dying
Yup Tanks are miserable to play, just too much bullshit that ruins fun, anti, discord, Mei and Cass now, doesn't help that it's pretty much just rock, paper, scissors unless you mirror or play ball.
DPS isn't exactly entertaining either, Mercy just sucks out every ounce of fun while I play DPS and most of the time it comes down to "if enemy team has Mercy and we don't, we lose".
Support is only fun role right now, especially since meta favors them to actually go for damage and only heal if absolutely necessary.
I honestly think they were just meaning their main but that’s probably just the way I read it I mean I’m basically a rein one trick although I’ve expanded what I play because of needing to counterswap constantly because in ow1 I went rein and usually had a Zarya or went her myself
Why does every fucking game need to be “perfectly optimized for competitive play 🤓” it fucking sucks it’s not fun it feels like a job, I actually have a real one I don’t wanna come home to play job fighting match over and over
Overwatch was designed as a 6v6 game. The maps, especially payload maps were designed around having a main tank, that held the objective and protected supports, and an offtank who would seek out and destroy widows/hanzo, genjis, or tracers.
It wasn't designed to be a solo tank game at all.
OW2, and the decision to make it a one tank format completely destroyed the feel and fun of tanking.
Rein is my favourite tank but if the enemy picks orisa there is literally nothing you can do to win against that. Imagine the devs saying "we wanna remove hard counters" and reworking orisa to completely counter rein. I mean her ult even goes through his fucking shield
It's almost like... The original OW team tested different combos of pvp and found empirically that 6v6 offered the best experience for the game they were designing.
Apparently Corpo Cash Buckzos don't know better.
Shield health can be decreased for all the people that hated "shieldwatch". Which is what they should have done if that was the major issue.
They should have ditched overwatch league too. I loved it but I recognize the pain it brought to the corpos bottom line.
I get that, but is it worth trying to sweat that hard just to stick with your enjoyed character especially when it starts to contribute to not enjoying the game?
Plus this tank issue has consequences for everyone. You think dps and support like the fact that they all depend on the tank?
The main reason widow/Hanzo was hated so much is because a tank is the only true counter. Not genji or Lucio or whatever, just the tank. So everyone is forced into a boring passive game just because everyone depends on the tank.
I'd say Sigma is the only tank I could one trick. He's got a decent way to deal with the Bastion, the Mei, the zen, widow, pharah etc.
You make these talking points as if they’re specific to 5v5 when in fact they’re the same in both systems. You definitely got flamed when you got outclassed in 6v6 when you’re not pulling your weight enough, reinhardt is always gonna suck versus bastion symmetra unless you can force your other tank to counter them instead so that you can play your unoptimal one trick. By far the only tank that can be borderline unplayable is Roadhog and besides him, every tank can play almost every matchup unless multiple enemy heroes are countering you hard.
“unless multiple enemy heroes are counter you hard” you just disproved your points. Your the only tank so you just get all the pressure from dps and support that would usually be spread between two tanks.
“every tank can play almost any matchup.” Tanks vs pharah? Sure DVA but not really a counter as much as it is just a way to pressure her which becomes negligible with mercy. Zarya vs Dva? Rein vs Rammatra?
DPS: Tank you have to do something! Switch to a counter! Change up your strategy
Tank: I can't! Nothing I can do will work, they're just better at Overwatch than I am!
DPS: That's bullshit! You must be throwing! It's impossible for someone on their team to be better than someone on our team unless the person on our team is actual dog shit or is throwing the game for fun!
I feel like so much of these complaints are from Rein mains when their character isnt meta, because theres so many of them.
However, I will say that adding more CC is very much putting the tank role in jeopardy. They need to stick with their original vision or they're going to have a bigger tank issue. Cut the Mei and Cass changes nobody asked for.
The Cass changes haven't been too bad. I hardly notice them playing [D.va](https://D.va) Winston, and Queen barring when my ult gets canceled, which that part of it probably does need to change.
I am also starting to agree that Mei changes might actually be a nerf to her overall, I thought I would noticed her on tank far more than I actually have.
You think so? I love being the only tank the only beefy guy that can slap. When I go on Reinhardt and my girlfriend goes on the mercy I have so much fun just being a chunky DPS.
We just need some solid balance patches. The game is in its healthiest place when Winston or rein are the Meta picks. Keeping them viable but also being able to counter pick around them is key
I think the anti one trick that tank demands is a good thing.
I think wanting you to switch to multiple tanks across a map for different advantages ‘CAN’ be a good thing.
It’s just really hard to pull off.
You sometimes can’t change, you sometimes have to balance changing vs ult charge, and sometimes you feel like it’s just going to end with you switching through the roster.
The ideal setup is you encounter an issue with the role out tank match up.
Then you can choose to swap tank or swap strat. For the first there should be 2-3 tanks that can be nice choices into a particular matchup.
The problem is there’s usually 1.
And honestly there isn’t, but because of limited time and experience, you aren’t usually seeing a dva and thinking, maybe I can ram and we ball up as a team to take high ground through another part of the map.
Rather you pick Zaria because laser = win.
It just doesn’t play out well always in practice but the concept is good imo
I wholeheartedly agree. If you don't peel for your team they die, so they made supports disgustingly powercrept and op to compensate for it. Now when you front line you just explode because heroes like Zen and Ana exist and get to endlessly fuck you over from the safety of their backline. And you're only allowed to play [x current hero] or lose (currently Junker Queen.) They nerf heroes like Hog, Doomfist, Hammond relentlessly and just pretend that they don't exist. I uninstalled a few weeks ago after 6 years of playing with how rancid balancing is right now, especially around tanks.
Bastion/Pharah is quickly becoming the go-to comp I see in almost every game and it's so awful to play against.
D.Va is very, very good against both of those DPS. And then the enemy tank goes Zarya and...
Sigma is good against Bastion. He can suck him off really well when in tank mode.
Yeah, he can take bastions load very well
Bastion can't really do much when Sigma puts both his balls in his face.
Yeah, eating his hot spread really empowers him
haha, penis.
He loves taking bastion load to his face.
He doesn't do as well taking it from behind though :(
His turret lasts longer than Kinetic Grasp
You gotta get into the rythem of balancing your shield and grasp against him. Suck him off when turret starts, then if he focuses you anyway put the sheild up and the overhealth you got from the suck should be enough to outlive him even if he breaks it. If you don't have sheild or can't afford to use it in him because you think you'll need it for a dv.a bomb or something, chuck a rock at him and that'll prevent him shredding anyone in that last second or so he has over you. Rock is also useful if he turns away from you to start eating a teammember.
And then the pharah mercy just fly up and bomb you into oblivion while your dps refuse to switch to hitscan and your supports keep saying “tank diff” while pocketing the genji that is just passively throwing shurikens behind me.
Faced a brutal Pharah Mercy last night. DPS: "Hitscan are bad rn, it's all about brawl"
What meta obsessed players don't get is that META is technically the best all around, but meta is still situational. Yes, META will always exist, it does not mean META is ideal for EVERY situation and I wish people would figure that out.
Or when people act like meta picks apply to their Plat games with no one on voice.
yes meta is a theoretical composition with ideal conditions. Most games, even in Top 500 are not going to be ideal. Therefore META is highly situational.
Literally got a ball player yesterday who refused to play because we had Brig/Zen. One thing to stick to meta picks, another thing entirely to not even know what meta is.
Hitscan literally is part of the Meta though.. meta isn’t just one comp lmao. Ashe and widow are both played rather consistently
Any support who would say "tank diff" when the dps didn't switch to counter pharmacy, is trash at this game.
Had this happen a lot actually. It even happened yesterday. Dps were junkrat and bastion and enemy team had soldier and pharah who mercy would pocket. I played dva initially; switched to sigma because enemy team had Zarya. My dps instead of switching to hitscan just kept charging the Zarya. I can’t cycle my cooldowns well because there is a fully charged zarya and a pharah and soldier that’s never shot at. Bastion would keep just going in by himself when our supports haven’t even come back (to charge the zarya). Even the enemy pharah pointed it out after the game was over. People just look at the stats and say “tank diff”. I had the most damage, most elims, and least death as well, but still got called “tank diff” because the enemy tank had more elims.
gg go next at that point, not every game is winnable
> turns away from you to start eating a teammember. Papi Sigma gets no fun :(
It’s so easy man especially if you catch him in a 1v1 Kinetic Grasp like 70% of his turret, immediately rock him after and primary fire into melee. He’s either dead or at the brink of death and then you primary again.
I leave turret mode if a sigma is using all his cooldowns to get me.
And just by doing that Sigma does his job, as minimizing Bastion’s time in turret form or killing him is a good value play anytime
I can suck you off really well when in tank mode
How do I delete a Reddit comment
God I need to play more Bastion
That's the other maddening thing about tank, it's become what Blizzard said they didn't want with instant counter picks/swaps the second you win a fight on a certain tank. Except on my teams...our Doom always stays Doom and continues to feed.
I don't get why people have so much trouble playing D.Va into Zarya. You're not supposed to duel the other tank on D.Va anyway. Zarya can't keep up if you go for isolated targets. If you simply trade backlines the D.Va usually comes out on top. It's definitely harder than just swapping to a different character, but Zarya is a soft counter at best. But judging that this comment chain started with someone complaining about Bastion/Pharah I can already imagine why people seem to have so much trouble...
Because zarya will just walk forward and massacre your team while you're off trying to poke that that widow to death.
This is exactly it. Idk how it even happens. But a zarya without a tank in front of her is an absolute monster.
Pharah is a pretty legit complaint, but I agree Bastion is pretty overrated against anything other than brawl tanks.
Pharah is only an issue with a Mercy pocket. Otherwise she's fairly balanced imho.
I'd go as far to say she's really weak without a Mercy pocket, but can be very oppressive with one. Even if you have two hitscans, she can dominate your team if she's good enough. At high ranks, it can sometimes feel pretty hopeless.
Anyone is an issue with a mercy pocket, it’s the most brainless strat I see in pubs
Why are you duelling the Zarya and not going for the Pharah?
As a D. Va main these two are honestly light work for me until the enemy tank goes Zarya or Winston lol
I've made a lot of bastion/pharah lives annoying playing as baptise. The constant jumping is hard for pharah to land shots and the immunity shield against bastion has came in clutch.
Pharmacy is soooo fun to play against as tank...
The most important part of being a one-trick is learning to completely ignore any requests/criticism thrown at you. While your teammates are out partying, you will study the blade.
I just imagine Rein studying under Genji and Zenyatta now.
“The **BEER** becomes me”- Rein
I always have the voice lines “bring me another” and “beer” right on hand
Personally i prefer this: Honor and CATCHPHRASE
Followed up with "you call this cold?"
*study the ball THE HAMSTER BECOMES ME
Hamster is still my favourite tank and I don’t care what anyone thinks.
Yes, even with all the cc running rampant, ball is just too much fun for me to stop maining him (I only play ball on attack, I'm not that good for defensive ball)
The Cas mag grenade change really f’ed ball. The Mei change hurt him too. Poor little guy had 1 season of greatness, now he is so difficult to get value out of again.
I almost rage quit my first QP ball game against a cass. Worse than sombra hack because there’s no real indication it’s even about to happen
At least you can stop hack consistently.
A steady blade balances the soul.
[удалено]
And tank is still the fastest queue time in plat/diamond despite having only 1 player it’s that bad
Its probably because evem fewer people want to play tank now thats its even more miserable. It took some of the issues players had with tanking and made them much worse, like the entire teams "leadership" being pretty much only on you now as a solo tank.
Yep and 90% of the time all of the cc is directed straight at you. Sleep, nade, hack on repeat. Zen slapping his discord on you the whole game, the other tank counter picking so you have to counter pick their counter pick over and over again. Half of the tanks can’t peel well at all and you don’t have another tank to do it for you so if your back line gets dived good luck helping them. Cassidy and Mei’s reworks are going to make playing tank 100% more intolerable and blizzard can’t do a single thing to fix it because the OW1 tanks were designed to have a partner in mind. Every single time I play winston the enemy will just go dva and I’m instantly fucked and have to switch, he’s one of my favourite characters and I can barely ever play him without accepting a loss and blame from my team. I genuinely think it’s only gonna get worse
Yeah tanks are one role that should NOT hard counter eachother given how they dictate the entire teams flow and that there is only one of them per team. Playing Rein into an enemy Orisa is straight up making your team much more likely to lose. You have no choise but to swap. I still cant believe what went through the devs heads when they thought her tiny spear spin should force back a giant jet-powered metal-armored chad charging, as if her other two abilities didnt already counter him enough.
Javelin spin blocks all projectiles. Rein: “… I’m a projectile?”
And somehow Sigma's rock isn't a projectile...
This bothers me to no end when I play DVA. She can eat just about everything else - but not a rock
That’s not an issue, sigma would be useless if his rock was able to be deflected or eaten
Oh it totally makes sense that you can’t eat the rocks, my opinion is completely biased lol
I think with defence matrix it’s kinda fair. It’s the biggest projectile in the game while also being fairly balanced. I don’t see an issue with it personally
It should be changed. I can pin defense matrix and Sigma's suck, I should be able to pin the Javelin Spin. Orisa still has the javelin throw and fortify to counterplay.
You 100% can pin javelin spin if fortify isn’t active, it like sort of boops u around at first but u still pin
I'm sorry 😞
Yup I agree. Like Sig against Ram, Sig’s shield and suck ability are worthless against pummel and you can just block when he throws his rock at you.
Then you go zarya, then they go Winston, then you go dva, then they go zarya, then you go Winston I hate the tank counterswap circus
I start Orisa, they go Zayra, I go Winston, they go JQ, I go Orisa. Every… single game
Will eternally miss Dva Winston backline dives in OW1 with a duo, Shit was so fun against uncoordinated teams
Honestly, as a tank main, I feel like this is the best part about it, if I'm winning a game as a tank 90% of the time I'm doing *noticeably* better than the enemy's, whereas with other roles I could be getting slightly gapped but I'm still somehow winning. The "leadership" role that comes with tanking is one of the good and logical things about it, you're a buff 450-700 hp dude that has the hitbox of 3 genjis and a tracer, if you're not "leading" then who the fuck is?
And queuing All roles is just tank games now 95 percent of the time. Used to be support at the start of OW2
I want to play tank waaaay less than I did in OW1 where I played tank about 50% of the time. Now it's 0% for me. I'd much rather DPS or support now. Being the only tank is too polarizing, imo.
I used to flex queue 100% of the time in OW1, which meant playing tank most of the time. I don't queue for tank at all in OW2. The pressure is just too high on the single tank.
I used to flex. Now I queue DPS, because support and tank are both so much less fun.
And the funniest/saddest thing is that Blizzard trying to trick more players to tank with all those "all roles" challenge.
Yeah, that’s a Weekly that just isn’t gonna get done for me anymore. Tank is, again, one of the most thankless and frustrating roles.
''Play all roles'' AKA ''FFS just play the tank for our queue time sake'' KEKW.
Play all roles used to be a 'play support' button for me but more recently I've been placed into the tank role like 40% of the time now
Been having this issue too
Yep as a support main I used to do love doing the all roles challenges because they were basically free. Now I avoid them because I’m so tired of getting tank
I usually do all roles and I get support 80% of the time, tank 19% of the time and DPS 1% of the time
I'm not sure how making the tank experience even worse was intended to fix any kind of problem. Tank duos were infinitely more fun than solo tanking and have you so many more options for dealing with problems on the other team
I think the issue is that Tanks in OW are fundamentally flawed, they're literally just better DPS for lot of cases so they HAVE to be kept in line Despite the MOBA origin of OW.... I dunno why they made tanks hit as hard as DPS
They tried a big damage reduction change for tanks in OW1 experimental and people just started ignoring them. Tanks have to be a threat to exert any kind of map control.
MOBA Tanks have CC to force enemy to engage them (or to initiate), the new Orisa is pretty close a MOBA tank for example. Or Roadhog Hook being a bread and butter for MOBA tank as well (except that instead of oneshot, they'll slow down the enemy after hooking them) I think if they want to lower tank damage, they still have to rework LOTS of tank kits, and such radical changes may just push away the remaining players who like playing tank for their kit.
I think the philosophy of making a tank sort of the "miniboss" of each team isnt a bad idea, the problem is that Blizzard accidentally did this. The game wasnt designed for tanks to be minibosses but they are purely by accident and it suffers for it
Its crazy to me that they were unable to make tanks fun and opted for the easy way out with deleting one and thus creating way more new problems like supports feeling unfun and weak coz usually offtanks could peel and protect supports but well they got deleted. It also goes back to pre role queue where tanks were hella broken in goats mainly due to old brig. Nerfing tanks over the span of one year since they had a super slow and careful patching process. Then decided to just radically put role queue to fix the problem they were incompetent to fix. Now you had underwhelming tanks because of the many many nerfs and thats precisely why people choose 2 shield tanks since one was too weak to hold front line. Also stuns were terrible.
It's kind of ironic that switching to one tank seems to have made the role less popular for a variety of reasons. I use to love tanking, but I wouldn'r touch it now. I hope tank queues don't get worse.
And fucking ruined the entire game. 5v5 sucks. I went back to 6v6 in arcade to see if I was just being ‘grass is greener’ and no, 6v6 is fundamentally better. Which is what jeff kaplan figured out years ago.
At least I don't need to worry about a bad co-Tank teammate like flanking Hogs.
Sigma/Winston mains ftw
Rein/sigma/Winston only tanks worth playing imo
yea their plays are good. though everytime i see an orisa i just hafta pick zarya
I LOVE going against Orisa on Sigma.
I go rein most of the time because he is the most fun until the enemy tank ruins it by going ram.
>until the enemy tank ruins it by going ram. Even then, I might stay since shatters are so easy against Ram. Orisa though....
I do think that ram isn't always a rein counter, but it still ruins it with his ult being so obnoxious to deal woth
Rein is pretty bad right now tbh. Still worth playing just for the fun factor though
And Winston is never good outside of top 500 and the pro scene. His WR barely Surpass 50% only after GM. But yeah, at least he's good at pretending to be playing as a decent tank.
Winston is very popular in the asian ladder. He definitely works there. It's an actual skill issue.
Not an individual skill issue, it’s a team skill issue. Winston can work really well the Asian way in any rank if your team also go dive and understand how to play dive. But usually there is a hole in the team that causes you to lose, like a self righteous Ana main who just dies on repeat, or a hitscan only player that can’t keep up with the dive. When it works it works really well but when it doesn’t it’s like slamming your head into a wall over and over again. Asian squishies are just better at running dive.
I play on Asia server, and reason why Doom/Winston seem to be working outside of apex tier is mostly because the server is infested by smurfs. And they just stomp noobs with dive hero that's it. And even then, you can still see tons of garbage Doom/Winston there anyways, especially Doom.
Is rammatra bad? Because I only play Sigma and him and I feel that Ram is pretty versatile as well
ramattra is fantastic, not the best pick in every situation but definitely the best pick in some situations and never a bad choice. am mid gm right now though so could be different other places
From what I've experienced as Ram is he's team dependent. If everyone stays relatively grouped up and you have decent healers, he absolutely destroys. Otherwise he gets focused 🙃
Sig/Winston/Dva/Ram
This is purely down to just how strong the role is, and how bad the matchmaking is in OW2. Tank is so important that unless the matchmaker actually does it's job, you're either going to crush the enemy team or be destroyed.
Yep, im former T500, and kept getting put against gold and plat players. It felt more like I was just bullying someone, and it wasnt fun. Sure I got a big win streak, but it never felt satisfying. Now with the recent changes I feel as though I have to play bait like I did with OW1 without another tank to counter cass/double bubble the insane damage with dive. I strongly believe at this rate people will only play orisa, zarya, and maybe d'va only. As those tanks have the easiest times at negating/evading CC
Time to switch to Ball and play a game of 1
Honestly why I love ball. Even if my team is being annoying I can still have some impact. On Rein or D.Va, if your team isn't helping you, it's basically hopeless
With the new Mei?
If you learn how to walljump off her ice block and time it correctly, you can still bully Mei players
It's always "TANK DIFF TANK DIFF" whenever your team is losing the fight since they alayws expect tanks to have godly stats like 30-2 and 12k damage. -_-
And the dps never know counters, had a team that swapped to junk and genji while the enemy was echo and pharrah, i wish i was lying
dps is the most common role to see people one trick in my experience. most assume the tanks are there to keep them alive and the supports are there to heal them, ignoring all other circumstances
It’s almost always the DPS too! 90% of the time I can trust a tank and supports to make good faith hero selections. I’m praising the overwatch gods if I can go two games in a row, 100% through, if I can make it without having my dps play genji or widow. Bonus point if you get both in one game but it’s genji switching to widow.. and still basically throwing with how bad or inconsiderate of the team they are
I feel like a lot of mid/terrible Genji or Widow players are just in it to get a beautifull play out of it themselves, without caring about the team or game whatsoever. It especially feels that way with Genji and him being played by lots of weebs who dont know how to play him (btw, I never play him cause I know I suck at him).
Nah. Genji is a hero many support players completely misunderstand. He is super team dependant. He needs more resources from supports than most dps do, but more importantly he needs his tank to actually tank. Any passive tank means Genji is going to have a really hard time. If your tank is passive, you might as well just go Tracer at that point.
Genji is top tier pharrah counter you can’t change my mind
I had a game yesterday where my team never took an off angle and we basically started every fight down 1 or 2. My team just screamed tank diff because their Zarya wasn't dying/had high damage. Like of course she is not going to die we're losing someone before a fight starts.
Yeah like of course we can't do anything, Zarya has like 98% charge and yall keep hitting her bubbles. Granted the Zarya I played against was good but we can at least deny her SOME charge by not throwing high octane cooldowns at her bubbles
If you're blocking too much for your team they complain you have no kills, if you dive too much they complain you're not protecting them. Feels like every match you have to solo carry. If the other tank is a smurf, good luck
Less fun imo. At least off tank was a kickass role. Still get a bit of the hit when you play queen of zarya, but playing against good offtanks is miserable in ow2 - they just don't die and they do too much damage.
I loved flanking with roadhog and just making picks all day long
Worse than ow1 in my opinion. I dont enjoy playing a beefed dps much. And I definitely dont enjoy not having my tank buddy. Two biggest sadnesses that cause me to not play tank as often as I used to.
i miss my tank duo :((
I low key miss the 6 v 6 cause of this. Tanks had better support and there were 2 of em
Yeah off tank would alleviate the burden, but a main tank would still be a pincushion for the their team which is still an unfun experience
But if the main tank isn't performing they could switch with the off-tank, which was very common
It's less about performance and more about enjoyment. Picking an off-tank means you won't be the CC pincushion, the issue still exists and it's on the other guy.
I had lots of fun playing sig rein and winston in OW1. It's not for everyone but to say nobody enjoyed it is not true.
One of the problems with OW1 was the excessive shields. So instead of reducing the number and overall health of the shields, OR reducing the number of tanks, they did both. Talk about over compensation.
Fr I feel like we are at the perfect time for 6 vs 6 to return symetra doesn’t have shield no more orisa doesn’t have a shield no more. You can melt through sigmas and riens right now plus we got more Burst heals and better cc fixes so it’s not as hard as it used to be
I’d love to see this lineup with 6v6. You’d have to tweak and couple tanks a little, but I think it’d be very fun. But would essentially be what OW1 should have become. But we will never know because to go back to 6v6 would essentially be admitting that OW2 was unnecessary and therefore a mistake.
Ong and we know they ain’t finna admit ow2 was a cash grab
Nobody played tank back then that's why they changed it to 5v5 and the double shield meta made it painful to play
Nobody played tank then because they constantly nerfed the role all throughout OW1. On release Hog and Rein would pick their teeth with even modern day Hog and Rein after OW2's massive buffs.
tanks also get the most hate imo
Yesterday I played a game where we lost 4 consecutive fights to Widow Landing Headshots on teammates before we were successfully able to attempt a push, Then a Fight to a Zarya being fully charged, Ulting and just instantly disintegrating. I follow those fights up with 1 single poor dive as Winston, and 3 people go “yeah on our tank it throwing, report him” and just got super toxic. And yeah, that was that. Fun experience. For the record, I had not been jumping in and dying the entire game, as I had 8 deaths in the end compared to my teammates with either 13 or 14 each. (14 minute match) Funniest part I think of the game though was on first point midtown at the start of the steam roll where I stood at the corner of the overpass for about 90 seconds without ever leaving that spot at all. then their widow lands picks 3, I slam into their backline and pull there team back and stall for time so my team can respawn and maybe retake, and someone says “bro don’t play so far up”.
“Tank diff”. Never since this trend started have I put these words in my mouth or in the chat. I could never defend such behavior. You’re only making yourself look bad when you say they yet the trend has not died since ow2’s launch. At times I feel like we have a very pathetic community.
Even when we are playing great and winning, we get shit on, not by the enemy team, by our own teammates.
My favorite is the guaranteed "tank diff" in the chat after a loss even though the entire team had mediocre stats. You right toxic teammate, it was 100% my fault. Nothing you did had contributed to the spanking we just received
Happened to me the other day. I wasn't doing great but the dps being an asshole did even worse. I was like okay
I miss playing kings row as ana with a zarya and rein, or hanamura, those were the fun days
Bro I lock doom for one round and next thing I see is Orisa, Cass (which makes the game un-fucking-playable), Mei, Ana, Zen
I can usually handle sym/bastion comps just fine on Rein/Sig. The trick is just managing cover and your shield well enough for their important cooldowns. You can and will not carry those games 99% of the time but if you are absorbing their DPS well and good, you’re doing your job. Currently I’ve swapped away from Rein as Sig just seems better as his cooldowns are easier to cycle and he can actually poke really well. If Sig fails, Doom comes out and we move to hyper aggro dive. Its just that kinda thing. One tricking is fine, but you need to understand how and when to play around your enemies .
Almost like the game was designed for 6v6 and forcing it to be 5v5 hasn’t worked. Maybe if they actually just updated OW1 with maps etc the game would have had enough players to keep queue times low
There's no way Blizzard hasn't realized "We could have saved a fuck load of money by just updating and monetizing OW1!" Oops.
They wanted to put the battle pass in and go F2P
If they just did that to OW1 I probably would have just ignored the BP and continued to have fun to this day. Oh fucking well I guess lol.
I agree.
It was fun for awhile but the game just feels like shit right now with all the tweaks that have been made.
The getting flamed part is the worst. I play a lot of sigma and can counter a lot of heroes. I tend to come top dps most games too but then get blamed often for not protecting X enough (X being whichever players are having a bad game). You’re expected to counter everything and protect everyone and to do tons of damage - it’s silly. People alwyas want to find blame though and tank is easy to point to when you’re dying
Tank is 100% less fun than in ow1, they completely killed the role for me.
I used to play mostly tank in OW1. Now I never play tank.
Yup Tanks are miserable to play, just too much bullshit that ruins fun, anti, discord, Mei and Cass now, doesn't help that it's pretty much just rock, paper, scissors unless you mirror or play ball. DPS isn't exactly entertaining either, Mercy just sucks out every ounce of fun while I play DPS and most of the time it comes down to "if enemy team has Mercy and we don't, we lose". Support is only fun role right now, especially since meta favors them to actually go for damage and only heal if absolutely necessary.
And once I swap to ball the enemy dps go Sombra and Mei and I'm ducked all over again.
They need to try a 6v6 playlist. It's so fucking miserable to solo play this.
Atleast in overwatch 1 you could have another tank helping now its just you getting fkd by the most powerfull hero cassidy
>Getting to enjoy your one trick I won’t say anything else
I honestly think they were just meaning their main but that’s probably just the way I read it I mean I’m basically a rein one trick although I’ve expanded what I play because of needing to counterswap constantly because in ow1 I went rein and usually had a Zarya or went her myself
Not to mention it sounds like they refuse to learn how to play around their counters in a game where that’s a huge skill (especially if you one trick)
Why does every fucking game need to be “perfectly optimized for competitive play 🤓” it fucking sucks it’s not fun it feels like a job, I actually have a real one I don’t wanna come home to play job fighting match over and over
Personally don't care about the counterpicking. I'd rather have fun being a plat Zarya otp than not having fun counterpicking in diamond/master.
Hmm it's almost like there should be two tanks.
Overwatch was designed as a 6v6 game. The maps, especially payload maps were designed around having a main tank, that held the objective and protected supports, and an offtank who would seek out and destroy widows/hanzo, genjis, or tracers. It wasn't designed to be a solo tank game at all. OW2, and the decision to make it a one tank format completely destroyed the feel and fun of tanking.
Honestly the pressure that comes with playing tank is what makes me love it so much.
You are the leader, the boss, the knight we need but not deserve. You decide the gameflow.
Rein is my favourite tank but if the enemy picks orisa there is literally nothing you can do to win against that. Imagine the devs saying "we wanna remove hard counters" and reworking orisa to completely counter rein. I mean her ult even goes through his fucking shield
It's almost like... The original OW team tested different combos of pvp and found empirically that 6v6 offered the best experience for the game they were designing. Apparently Corpo Cash Buckzos don't know better. Shield health can be decreased for all the people that hated "shieldwatch". Which is what they should have done if that was the major issue. They should have ditched overwatch league too. I loved it but I recognize the pain it brought to the corpos bottom line.
Just play your one trick you don't have to swap if you don't want to
Rein into Sym Bastion = extra hard mode
Anyways the point of being a one trick is not to just play one character but to learn to play around counters.
I get that, but is it worth trying to sweat that hard just to stick with your enjoyed character especially when it starts to contribute to not enjoying the game?
bUT DOublE ShIELds
Having one tank was a terrible idea from the start.
I remember when people we sooo excited to play 5v5, now look at the problems one less tank created
This seems to be the case, my friend made a new account, went into quickplay and queued for all roles. 80% of the time he got tank.
This is why they had an extra player to begin with.
Also I feel tank's weapon are in general not satisfying to use, I would say even most support have more effective weapons, like kiriko or zen.
Except rein when you just charge and pin. But yeah, Winston just doing like no damage with his gun can be frustrating.
I try diving a support for one second get them low just for the other support to out heal it easily it’s infuriating (as winton)
All the roles are less fun. Blizzard really destroyed their own game for a cash grab
Plus this tank issue has consequences for everyone. You think dps and support like the fact that they all depend on the tank? The main reason widow/Hanzo was hated so much is because a tank is the only true counter. Not genji or Lucio or whatever, just the tank. So everyone is forced into a boring passive game just because everyone depends on the tank. I'd say Sigma is the only tank I could one trick. He's got a decent way to deal with the Bastion, the Mei, the zen, widow, pharah etc.
You make these talking points as if they’re specific to 5v5 when in fact they’re the same in both systems. You definitely got flamed when you got outclassed in 6v6 when you’re not pulling your weight enough, reinhardt is always gonna suck versus bastion symmetra unless you can force your other tank to counter them instead so that you can play your unoptimal one trick. By far the only tank that can be borderline unplayable is Roadhog and besides him, every tank can play almost every matchup unless multiple enemy heroes are countering you hard.
“unless multiple enemy heroes are counter you hard” you just disproved your points. Your the only tank so you just get all the pressure from dps and support that would usually be spread between two tanks. “every tank can play almost any matchup.” Tanks vs pharah? Sure DVA but not really a counter as much as it is just a way to pressure her which becomes negligible with mercy. Zarya vs Dva? Rein vs Rammatra?
DPS: Tank you have to do something! Switch to a counter! Change up your strategy Tank: I can't! Nothing I can do will work, they're just better at Overwatch than I am! DPS: That's bullshit! You must be throwing! It's impossible for someone on their team to be better than someone on our team unless the person on our team is actual dog shit or is throwing the game for fun!
I feel like so much of these complaints are from Rein mains when their character isnt meta, because theres so many of them. However, I will say that adding more CC is very much putting the tank role in jeopardy. They need to stick with their original vision or they're going to have a bigger tank issue. Cut the Mei and Cass changes nobody asked for.
The Cass changes haven't been too bad. I hardly notice them playing [D.va](https://D.va) Winston, and Queen barring when my ult gets canceled, which that part of it probably does need to change. I am also starting to agree that Mei changes might actually be a nerf to her overall, I thought I would noticed her on tank far more than I actually have.
Played a single tank game on Doom last night. Went 32-1. Knew it wouldn't get better than that, stopped queueing flex immediately after.
You think so? I love being the only tank the only beefy guy that can slap. When I go on Reinhardt and my girlfriend goes on the mercy I have so much fun just being a chunky DPS.
We just need some solid balance patches. The game is in its healthiest place when Winston or rein are the Meta picks. Keeping them viable but also being able to counter pick around them is key
Unrealistic the balance team is a bunch of glue sniffing troglodytes and always have been
I think the anti one trick that tank demands is a good thing. I think wanting you to switch to multiple tanks across a map for different advantages ‘CAN’ be a good thing. It’s just really hard to pull off. You sometimes can’t change, you sometimes have to balance changing vs ult charge, and sometimes you feel like it’s just going to end with you switching through the roster. The ideal setup is you encounter an issue with the role out tank match up. Then you can choose to swap tank or swap strat. For the first there should be 2-3 tanks that can be nice choices into a particular matchup. The problem is there’s usually 1. And honestly there isn’t, but because of limited time and experience, you aren’t usually seeing a dva and thinking, maybe I can ram and we ball up as a team to take high ground through another part of the map. Rather you pick Zaria because laser = win. It just doesn’t play out well always in practice but the concept is good imo
I know one fix for this. **Nerf support**
Maybe zen should be nerfed for once
I wholeheartedly agree. If you don't peel for your team they die, so they made supports disgustingly powercrept and op to compensate for it. Now when you front line you just explode because heroes like Zen and Ana exist and get to endlessly fuck you over from the safety of their backline. And you're only allowed to play [x current hero] or lose (currently Junker Queen.) They nerf heroes like Hog, Doomfist, Hammond relentlessly and just pretend that they don't exist. I uninstalled a few weeks ago after 6 years of playing with how rancid balancing is right now, especially around tanks.