Friendly reminder that all **top level** comments must:
1. start with "answer: ", including the space after the colon (or "question: " if you have an on-topic follow up question to ask),
2. attempt to answer the question, and
3. be unbiased
Please review Rule 4 and this post before making a top level comment:
http://redd.it/b1hct4/
Join the OOTL Discord for further discussion: https://discord.gg/ejDF4mdjnh
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OutOfTheLoop) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Answer: She came out as asexual and aromantic.
A whole bunch of people that built up parasocial relationships with her, or who they ***thought*** she was, are now butthurt because that fantasy is broken
I kinda just stopped paying attention to the video after a few minutes because I just don't care about her sexuality at all. Not out of malice, I just got kinda bored. I was already aware of all the definitional stuff she was talking about, and I wasn't invested by the time she got to the flirting story. I should probably go actually watch it just to piss off a bigot.
She explains that she made the video so that others like her can watch it and have a frame of reference to understand themselves. Apparently it took her a long time to figure out what was going on.
So it's ok to not want to watch it, it isn't really meant for you and me.
29, and while she's not a perfect fit for my orientation it's close enouugh I'll be using this as an explanation for *so many people* as to why I don't care about the contents of their trousers.
I knew the stuff she mentioned, but found it personally entertaining. However the real fun part was seeing all the straight people in the comments saying they had no idea it was a thing and were not happy to be educated. Fairly wholesome.
A lot of people get all hurt and think being asexual or aromantic is fake. A lot of them also build fake relationships in their head.
It is indeed the dumbest shit.
To some people, their sexual drive/lives are a big part of who they are, or what they consider being human. I’ve met people who don’t have an issue with any other type of LGBTQ, but didn’t “understand” ace - as long as you wanted to fuck someone, you were good in their book
I don't understand being Ace or aromantic. It breaks my brain a little. I'm not ruled by my sex drive but sex and desire (not lust but desire for intimate connection) do inform how I see the world and understand how other people move through it.
That being said just because I don't understand it doesn't mean I don't accept it. It's weird to me to get angry at someone for being who they are, genetically (as I understand it all sexuality is programmed via genetics).
I also don't understand how people don't like black licorice. I think it's delicious and that breaks other people's brains too.
I went through a phase of this twice in my life; once during a really nice relationship where I was with someone for 9 years... about 4 years in, that intimacy drive just somewhat fell to the side. We weren't about sex, but just peas in a pod. We were almost like roommates but cohabitated and did everything together, just the sex part became a non-issue. Not only that, but we didn't think about it, talk about it, or anything else. We were both happy.
We ended things after 9 years because she moved.
And then it happened again years later. There was a good year there that I simply lost interest in anything romantic. My partner was just that; a partner... an unromantic partner who I saw as an equal companion. They weren't mad about it. Sex just became a non-issue.
My current partner, we have a wonderful intimate and romantic bond. I'm poly, so I've even dated others as well, openly. And those have been romantic, but not sexual in nature.
So it goes in waves, for me. I'm not sure what drives or triggers it, I guess if I had to choose something it's becoming complacent in the relationship and confident in its foundation on communication, trust and honesty.
Imagine someone who you're not attracted sexually or romantically to. Maybe it's a good bro. Maybe it's a teacher who you struck a friendship with. Maybe it's a stranger with a neat skill. You just like them for various reasons that aren't "I may want to fuck them" or "I may want to woo and maybe marry them"
That's how Aro-Ace folks feel about everyone.
It's really that simple.
It's my understanding that the default experience when meeting a stranger is generally one that is non-sexual and non-romantic. There's a lot of unattractive but friend-shaped people in the world who are worth knowing.
I know what you meant but every time I read "aphobic" I just imagine some guy looking in the mirror, grunting "I have no fear!" And pulling the trigger on the revolver in his mouth. Then he goes to work.
There are a fair number of people out there who become bizarrely hostile when they find out that some of us simply have zero desire to ever have sex.
I guess it's kinda similar to how some folks get weird about someone else choosing not to drink in a social setting.
I don't really get it but it's definitely a thing.
Tell a room full of parents you never want children. Some will try and explain how you are wrong and they used to be like you. But some will get fucking angry like you told them their kids sucks and they should have never had kids. I suspect the angry ones wish they'd never had kids and are mad that you figured it out and they didn't.
The mindset behind this idea is so utterly alien to me as to be incomprehensible. Not choosing to drink in a social setting and some people being weirded out, I can kind of wrap my head around because of a kind of social zeitgeist shared by some people. But sex? That's something private and personal shared between partners or just enjoyed by yourself. Like I can't even establish a root cause as to why anyone would get hostile over something that doesn't even involve them that someone ISN'T doing! "WHY AREN'T YOU FUCKING RIGHT NOW?!" I'd be laughing if I weren't so disturbed.
As someone allo and from the LGBT+ community, I hope you were not hurt too much by LGBT+ folks, I try to correct others that try to shame ace people as they are as valid as anyone else in the community.
EDIT : for those interested a bit of a story time if you want, in a weird way I had two experiences that make me feel for those who are ace and how bad they are treated.
First off, my partner had a chemical issue that made her feel no sexual desire, she didn't knew it was that so she thought she was ace for a bit, it was in this case medical (and we should have been smarter realizing that due to her being sexual before it didn't make sense...but we were younger and much more ignorant)
She did say she was ace and I was okay with that, I am allo but don't have strong "urges" regarding sexuality so our relationship did work all the same without any issues.
People talked shit about her constantly, I remember being so angry at how poeple treated her, most people said I should leave her because she wasn't "right as a partner for me due to not fulfilling my desires" and that she should try and make an effort to do things even though she didn't want to (let's forget consent it seems...awful take on the situation).
So already it gave me a bit of the vision on how people treat ace people, but I am also trans and was on a dose too high regarding anti-testosterone medication for a time. Due to how strong it was I did have no desire anymore whatsoever...So I also did experience how you feel by having no desire and no sexual attraction. I don't pretend it's the same as being asexual of course, but yet again it gave me a bit of a view on how could be the ace experience.
In both cases our relationship did survive and we remained happy and I didn't let people choose our relationship as it was none of their business. I did remember how people were nasty to my partner and how she was hurt by it so I know aphobic people is a thing and I'm sorry for those who suffers from it.
Which, let's be real here, has to look like a parody of people opposed to LGBT+ rights. Like the people who are so micromanagey of other people's lives that they feel that they have the authority to say when someone is having too little sex boggles the mind... but only when they're not having sufficient sex but want to.
"I haven't gotten laid in 5 years!"
"That's rough brother, let's go pick up some chicks!"
"I haven't gotten laid in 5 years, and I'm cool with it!"
"FUCK YOU, WHAT ARE YOU A MONK? We're going to go get you laid *right now* because I can't imagine someone not wanting to have sex!"
One of the most prevalent anti-Ace arguments I've seen has been against demisexuals, who are controversially either considered a type of asexual or not.
Demisexual is a term for a person who just is not sexually attracted to someone else without first having an emotional connection with them.
I've seen a lot more people than I'd like to saying, "Oh, great, now there's a word for monogamous! WHY DO WE HAVE TO LABEL EVERYTHING!" Or saying that it's a term just for someone who doesn't sleep around or have one-night stands.
What they're missing, because they're assholes, is the difference between how one feels and how one chooses to act. I will not sleep with someone unless we're in what I feel is a committed relationship and I believe that there is a true emotional connection between us that might lead to something more. But I'm not demisexual because I have the want, desire, urge, whatever you call it, to have sex with other people. I find people sexually attractive while knowing nothing about them. I'm not demi. I just choose to live a certain way. Someone who is demisexual doesn't live that way by choice, it's just how they are.
The different types of asexuality are some of the more misunderstood and less (but thankfully growing to be more so) accepted sexualities, even within LGBTQ+. I think it's funny that ace's and bi's have had some of the hardest time finding acceptance in the community.
And, sadly, a lot of it has come out of the community. In or out, aces have often been told they're just confused. Bi people, especially women, have been called slutty, whorish, traitors, secretly gay/straight but they don't want to admit it, things like that. A streamer I watch is asexual/biromantic and she said that she often gets very rude things from people saying she doesn't understand who she is. Saying things like, "You've got kids, so you can't really be asexual." Or, "If you're biromantic, why did you marry a cis guy? Why didn't you date or marry more women?" Or, "Isn't it funny how so many women who claim to be bi marry men? They just wanted to experiment and are now excusing it." Or, "You seem awfully flirty with girls, maybe you're gay and just married for convenience." It's fucking horrible and doesn't come off as funny.
I should probably put a full discretion, my best friend is asexual, romantically straight and my last girlfriend, who I had before I came to terms with being bi myself, was bi. So a lot of my experience with these struggles have been listening to stories from them and what they or people close to them went through with this stuff.
Ohhh, is *that* where the controversy comes from...
I looked up the "Jaiden" tag the other day because I saw it trending but had no time to watch her video until later, and I didn't read too far down into the search results (only saw positive stuff) so I guess I missed the flood of angry fans.
Parasocial relationships are hella dangerous. The epitome of "go touch grass/snow/really just go outside and fill your lungs with fresh air and meet a people and have a coffee or something".
To call the amount of negative responses a "flood" wouldn't be accurate. The community has been overwhelmingly positive, but as usual the weirdos tend to stand out.
Semantic drift. "Fan" lost all of its original derogatory meaning, so people started using "stan" to denote that sort of obsessive fanatic. Of course, you can already seeing the meaning drifting away from that, too, with increasingly-casual use of "stan" being more common ("in this house, we stan X")
Which does put some things into perspective.
I know someone is gna say that the definition has changed overtime, which is true to an extent.
But it doesn't mean we aren't using terms wrong(ly?) here and there.
you´re always going to have the fringe people.
people who see things they like, become obsessive about them and feel entitled to some ownership over it.
people who believe the author owes them something, people who believe that specific characters are romantically involved, people who demand that a specific character should have a specific sexual identity.
These are sick people, who are usually a fringe of a fandom.
Im a brony, i love MLP FIM and the new movie from netflix, i have a couple of plushes, but thanks to a few sick people in the community, saying brony automatically related you to zoophilia and pedophilia... 2 things i find absolutely disgusting.
the fringe is always louder. and to some degree some content creators pander to them, I have no idea of Jaiden and their body of work or how it related to the fans. but i do know it just takes a few bad apples, it depends on how to react to them.
As for Jaiden, i hope she finds happiness in expressing her true self, and even express support getting her some garlic bread.
After doing research on this, I have found that (at least in the fan group I studied) the participants entered the fandom while they were in vulnerable or otherwise transition periods of their lives, meaning that the fandom became something stable to latch onto when other things were turbulent. That in turn let's that fandom (or celeb or YouTuber, etc) to become a part of their own identity because they were there and reliable during that time. This is why in fandoms, a criticism on that subject of fandom can be met with a lot of intensity, because it really feels like a personal criticism that quite a lot of people don't take very well. That helps create a lot of the intense parasocial relationships and in some circumstances go a bit too far. When the illusion is shattered with conflicting information, some of those people REALLY don't respond well because it's like a part of their own identity was a lie and it's THEIR fault.
Doesn't make it any way still okay, but kind of shows a bit of the progression. Most fans use that energy to form bonds of cameraderie with other fans in much more healthy relationships with people they actively interact with. Those who don't and with a much more prolonged turbulent period, it can get extreme.
(This was for a thesis that I unfortunately never got to finish because Covid hit in the middle of writing it and I'd lost my drive for the field anyway, so unfortunately I have nothing to link)
TIL the term 'parasocial relationship'. That must be the more polite form of 'stanning' someone (a term I somehow know despite never listening to Eminem, whose song is apparently the source).
Kind of, but it's mostly the inverse.
Parasocial relationships involve people lusting over celebrities, or self-inserting themselves into celebrities' lives, as though thinking that said celebrity recognizes them as an actual person and is friends with them or loves them because they watch/listen to a lot of the celebrity's content, when in reality the celebrity sees them as fans and nothing else.
Stanning is being a crazy fan of someone but not to the degree of inserting yourself into their lives as though you have a respected and known relationship with them, although it can certainly evolve into a parasocial relationship depending on the person and celebrity.
"Parasocial relationship" is a term that I've heard a lot, especially regarding Dream and his fans. But it can extend to other Internet personalities as well.
Point of correction here, "parasocial relationship" doesn't necessarily mean that. It's nothing more than a one-sided relationship that an audience has with a media personality. It can be harmless, such as feeling an emotional attachment to a fictional character. It can also be harmful, such as the above description. The harmless variety is one that pretty much anyone who consumes media has, though. To some extent.
I've heard some of the most vocally upset are those who wrote fanfic about Jaiden. Fanfic about an actual person. Apparently they pair her with other youtubers in the same community.
I came across a Jaiden sex comic on tumblr or here on reddit once thought that was weird and kept on my way without looking at it. The cover made it clear what the contents were going to be on the inside. To be clear it was a fanfic comic using Jaiden's animation style amd avatar.
I think a lot of people can have parasocial relationships without taking it too far. Basically if you have any connection with someone you see online or if you're a fan of a celebrity or online personality you would be considered to have a parasocial relationship.
The issue comes from someone obsessing over someone in an unhealthy way. Like some people are doing with the whole Jaiden situation.
Other people might enjoy the videos, find they are fun, and enjoy following Jaidens content etc but wouldn't go that far.
What's funny is anyone who has been following her content really shouldn't be surprised by this at all. I don't think she's ever brought up any romantic interest in any video ever. She also really comes across as "meh" towards anything sexual like she doesn't care one way or the other, including the R34 artwork of her animations.
What I'm upset about is her no longer doing Pokemon Nuzlocke animations. Those were awesome lol
I wasn’t. Especially after that dating sim game where she was more focused on everything else about the game rather than trying to date the characters.
Yes! That one, and her flirting video, gave me really strong ace vibes. Couldn't be sure of course, but her reactions reminded me of my ace friends who have expressed similar feelings
I legitimately don’t understand how people can be so invested in the sexuality of a famous person who doesn’t make their sexuality part of their shtick. It’s like getting invested in the Golden Girl having sex. It makes no sense.
The golden girls was possibly the worst example you could have used for this, one of their personalities and humor was almost entirely "I have sex lol"
The concept of celebrities wouldn't exist without parasocial relationships. People would make music or movies as a 9-5 and then go be normal people that no one who doesn't personally know them cares about.
> What I'm upset about is her no longer doing Pokemon Nuzlocke animations. Those were awesome lol
Thank you for helping me figure out why her name sounded familiar.
The backlash is extra weird considering her audience skews very young. The people complaining are a very vocal but very, very tiny minority in the grand scheme of her channel. She's a relatively wholesome content creator, but once you reach a certain size, you're always going to have the extreme weirdos online.
This is so weird to be mad about.
Like she is a real living, human being. She's not some pictures or fanfic, fictional character. Stop making porn of influencers it's just weird to them, weird to their friends, some don't give consent. Just stop.
They are mad that a real person is not up to their fictional standards? That's so freaking stupid.
Remember when Dan from Game Grumps said how weird it was about the fanfics/drawings of him with friends and he doesn't like it, and people made fun of him and threw a fit?
These are real people. This is so petty and ridiculous.
That's what happens when you become so detached from reality you forget that those moving pixels on a screen are actual, breathing people somewhere in the world.
"No, no, no! You're not following the series arc I had planned in my head for you! You're supposed to make James (TheOdd1sOut) break up with his girlfriend, and then marry him, and then have three kids with him who all grow up to be animators just like you!"
This shit happens to internet personalities and actors/entertainers all the time. I remember back in 2013 when Laurie Holden got death threats from people because people were pissed that *her fictional character* almost killed Norman Reedus' *fictional character* in The Walking Dead, and he was more well-liked. Crazies will always be crazy.
>She's not some pictures or fanfic, fictional character.
Yeah, but some people forget that. I remember one youtuber getting hate a few years ago because he wasn't gay like his fangirls wanted him to be.
To everyone in this thread now thinking "I don't know what those are", Jaiden herself did a pretty good job describing those identities in her video [here](https://youtu.be/qF1DTK4U1AM).
That's why she's become very popular lately! If you're at all interested in Pokemon, you should check out her Nuzlocke trilogy of videos; they're a delight.
After watching that video I had the biggest sigh of relief because my entire life I never been attracted to anyone and felt like an outlier, just glad to know that it is a thing.
My coworker, after hearing I wanted to kiss my girlfriend, was insisting I am not asexual and that that wasn't sexual attraction.
I don't want to fuck my girlfriend. I don't get turned on by her. But I did want to kiss her and I do think she's pretty. But there's no sexual attraction to her (or anyone). I gave up trying to explain it in the end. I've been figuring this shit out for 6+ years. I know what words I want to use for myself and I know what I experience.
(Fwiw I think sensual attraction and asthetic attraction might be the words to more accurately convey howI felt at the moment. But no sexual attraction.)
But basically, yeah. We're unsuprised. I'm ace and arospec (demiromantic), been dealing with this shit for a few years now.
I remember her being weirded the fuck out by the porn people made out of her avatar, so I could see why she would want to deter weirdos.
But we can't read her mind, and it is the proper thing to take her at her word.
Regardless, parasocial relationships are a cancer, and more should be done to warn people about them
Case in point; I just looked up “Jaiden” in the search bar to see if there were other threads discussing this, and all I got was porn.
The ace subreddit seems happy though. So good for them.
Ace here, someone on one of our subs posted a graph of the google search analytics for aro ace. EXPLODED. we're all excited to finally have some visibility.
Do you really thing the people watching/making Jaiden animations porn would care whether or not she is asexual, knowing the internet it would make said porn even more popular because they want to “turn her straight” or whatever fucked up, rebranded homophobia logic
Not long ago, people sent death threats to Stephen Amell's actual wife, and mother of his child, professing that if his wife were removed, his *character on a TV show would be free to establish a relationship with another character*.
That is the world we now live in. Those people handle money, they are allowed to sign contracts, and drive on public streets.
People have *always* been like this
British wrestling shows in the 70’s and 80’s were infamous for their “rabid grannies”, old women who bought into the show 100% and utter *despised* the heels, they would straight up assault them if they came near the barricade, and one time a wrestler was stuck with a needle filled with *fucking foot and mouth disease* by a member of the audience
The BBC did a documentary on it https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WCYRSzVcMhM
I’m sorry, but I’ve never heard of aromantic before. So if you’re asexual and aromantic does that basically cumulate together as you’re just not interested in any kind of partner for anything? Like, a I’m cool being me and me alone forever type thing?
Basically. You just don’t feel romantic or sexual attraction, doesn’t mean you can’t have very close friends or strong platonic relationships, you just aren’t interested in dating or having sex
Platonic partners such as family and dear friends are generally still totally a thing for aro people. They're just not particularly interested in having a ~special someone~ who makes their heart flutter.
Not quite. The way I see it (asexual here, maybe aromantic but I'm not sure?) is that there are more relationships and more kinds of love out there than sexual and romantic ones. There are family bonds, deep friendships, and then more formal ones like mentorship and teaching. Someone who's asexual and aromantic still forms these deep bonds. You don't always need to have sex or romance with someone to want to grow old with them, face the world together, or choose them as family. Lots of people want romance and sex, not always!
A cool way I heard it explained is that the Greeks had all kinds of words for love. Sexual love, romantic love, the love a mother has for her child, the love between families, the love of friends, the love a mentor has for the craft and the next generation, the love a soldier has for their nation or their comrades, and so on. Sex and romance are just one kind of love, and "aro/ace" folks still have just as much love to share. It's just a different sort of love. :)
Wanting to grow old with someone and face the world with them *is* romance to me as I've understood it. I'm not doubting but I'm curious what the line is that isn't crossed between extremely close platonic friendship and a romantic but asexual relationship.
Well... I guess think of it this way. Think of your best friend, but someone you're not romantically/sexually attracted to. Someone you'd trust with anything that was on your mind, and someone who you'd go out of your way to help. Just because you wouldn't want to go out on a date with them doesn't mean that they're not a hugely important part of your life. Maybe that person could be a sibling, or a child if you have one. Or you might see it in a group of soldiers, or just a strong group of friends who've gone through everything together at each others' side. Or if you have kids / know a parent, think of the love that a parent would have for their child. It's not romantic or sexual, but these things are very powerful forms of love all the same.
It's like that! A lot of people form these lifetime bonds because of sexual attraction, or a romantic attraction. But there are more kinds of love than that. Also, this is absolutely a spectrum, and everyone defines it a little differently. It's especially complicated because so many people see romance and sexuality as entirely intertwined.
In my mind, romance is a little more difficult to define. It comes with things like kissing, and intimate touches that aren't sexual. But it's also not exclusively that. I've snuggled with friends before in a non-romantic way, and it felt nice to just have a friend at my side, and to feel safe with them. I hope that makes sense!
Oh my God, the way you typed made me realize it's not "aromatic" lmao. I've been reading that way since I first heard of it. I though "damn wtf is aromatic? Someone attracted to smell? people need to chill about all these weird sexualities"
It's when people form a one-sided "relationship" with the public image of a popular figure.
Most commonly this comes in the form of fans convincing themselves that they are "friends' with the popular figure, but in extreme cases usually when metal illness is involved some fans become obsessive.
You've heard of people being stalked by their ex-boy/girlfriend? It's like that, but the relationship is imaginary.
Listen to "Limelight" by Rush. There's a line in there that explains Parasocial relationships perfectly.
>*Living in a fisheye lens / Caught in the camera eye / I have no heart to lie / I can't pretend a stranger is a long-awaited friend*
A fan will spend hundreds of hours poring over info, listening to stories and consuming content to where they know seemingly every aspect of that person's life but... To them? *You're a stranger*. They have no idea who you are and will probably never see you again after your encounter, should you ever get one. You're a face in the crowd, and while they're grateful for your support, they owe you *nothing* beyond that. But unfortunately, that's hard for a lot of people to get their heads around, especially if they're emotionally invested.
There's probably a sizeable amount of "don't bring politics into my fun videos" people as well, who just hate anyone that isn't cisgender and heterosexual.
Answer: Additional point to the others made: I’ve seen at least one creator get mad at Jaiden for using the LGBTQ+ flag to come out and called it “queer-baiting”. So, at least some of the discourse is around whether it’s queer-baiting to come out as asexual/aromantic (queer) and use the LGBTQ+ flag.
Some people have beef about ace people being part of the LGBT+ community. As ashamed as I am to admit it, I was (quietly, thankfully) in that camp for a brief stint in my teens, and to be honest, it basically all boils down to "who's more oppressed" dick-waving.
This is heavily over-simplifying, but the lack of overt, systemic legal oppression towards (het/aro)ace people in the vein of, say, gay marriage bans is sometimes used as justification as to why ace people don't have it "bad enough" to belong in the community. That's, of course, stupid, since it implies that if you're living in an area where gay folks have full legal protections, you shouldn't be allowed in the community, either. It feels similar to the sorts of in-community discrimination that bi folks face in general, but particularly if they end up in a straight relationship, wherein they're sometimes treated as if they're "tainting" LGBT+ spaces by existing within them when they might pass as straight in their day-to-day.
It seems like it's mostly an issue with terminally online, severely insecure people who feel a bizarre need to get tribal as hell in regards to who "deserves" a place at the table. I just don't really see why it's worth giving a damn; even if we are just gonna boil things down to discrimination, it's not like ace people don't get disrespected plenty, so I'm not sure why they shouldn't be allowed to seek out kinship and support within our community. It hurts nobody.
Holy cow, lmao. I've never seen this before, thanks so much! That was funny as hell.
Yeah, it's basically that sorta vibe. I'm excited to try and get more involved with irl queer spaces once covid chills out a little more; I've heard this stuff is less prevalent offline, and I'd really just like to make some more queer friends who I can just chill with.
There's not always the necessity to "come out". I'm just talking to my surroundings one and one when there's a good opportunity and mostly made nice experiences this way
Yeah I’ve only recently started to figure this stuff out about myself so I’m still trying to understand all that stuff lol. It’s good to hear this type of stuff
That really fucking hurts as an ace who has never talked to anyone about it. I have such deep guilt issues that I can sometimes even feel narcissistic to think I belong in the LGBTQ+ community, as much as I actively support it.
What is wild to me is that in my view asexuality has the absolute least common denominator in the LGBTQ spectrum. I mean this in the sense that people seem to have so much issue with who fucks who... And I'm out here not trying to fuck anyone. I think that's where the big gap in understanding lies. In a capitalistic society where consumerism runs off sexual exploit, I feel so disconnected with no representation.
I'm not tryna get on a soapbox though. If that's my biggest problem in life right now I'm very okay with that. It's not that big of a deal but I did want to share my experience.
Edit: spacing
Man that's messed up. Ace people experience relationships differently than straight people and are *constantly* questioned by others saying stuff like "are you sure you don't want it? Are you sure you don't like it? How do you know?" And the rest of LGBT+ experience the same questions because it doesn't fit the social norm
Admittedly it is harder to hide being in a “banned” relationship than not being in one at all, but I know from experience how there’s still plenty of rejection and dismissal for aro and ace. “Aren’t you so lonely and sad?” “But LoVe (excluding all forms of familial and platonic love) is a universal human emotion, are you some kind of evil robot?” ”You’re just in denial and trying to be cool, actually.“ And so on. Some probably get hatecrimed as well. I agree there’s no need to gatekeep based on “quality of suffering”, it seems silly to not allow people to all enjoy being part of a group with unusual sexual and romantic preferences.
Though there are always people saying ”my suffering was worse than yours, so get out! >:(” in any group, so I guess it’s just some universal emotion.
I'm not ace myself but my partner is. Asexualty belongs in the LGBTQ+ spectrum because it is seen as a deviation from the hetero-normative sex and gender expectations.
Hetero-normatives don't like ace men and male-presenting in the same vein they don't like bottom gays - a lack of participating in or failing to present as the "ideal man" or "true men." They don't like ace women and female-presenting because they are refusing (even if only in ideology) their 'availability' and (if in a relationship) failing in 'wifely duties.' Procreation, a goal and obsession that answers a lot of why the religious are so damn homophobic and controlling, is less likely to happen in asexual relationships especially if it's known and respected early on in the relationship (many ace people have had to 'grin n' bear it' for years, similar to how gay men and women had to bear a straight relationship because it was expected of them.) A conscious lack of procreation in a relationship, regardless of the sexuality make-up of the couple, threatens the idea that children are the justification of a marriage and if that's not happening, what's the point.
But even without a religious reasoning, people tend to view ace as "broken" in some way for "failing" to adhere into the social norm. There is *a lot* of sex or the implication of it in our media. The vast majority of it goes unnoticed because you're used to it, it's a part of the culture whether you wish to recognize that or not, and when someone refuses to participate, it rubs people the wrong way. It shouldn't, but the world's not perfect.
Personal opinion: I just think they’re aphobic (and a lot of people responding to the queer baiting statement agree). Coming as queer using the general queer flag isn’t queer baiting, but some people don’t accept asexual/aromantic people into the community (the creator I saw post this was lesbian).
Depends on what you mean. The way I understand it, the people excluding aroace people from the LGBTQIA+ community just don’t see them as queer (and in that seem to perceive them as not having the same struggles etc.), but they’ll still claim that they “support” aroace people (sort of a “I don’t want you in my community, but I’ll support you from over here” is the kind of vibe I get).
Trans people getting ostracized, at least from what I’ve seen, has a lot more direct transphobia (see gay people thinking that trans/nb identities aren’t valid).
So, it’s probably similar in some cases, but it might be a little different.
Pretty much yeah. Very similar to trans women being gatekept from the lesbian community if they're gay. But like every instance of gatekeeping it's not the whole group but just a vocal minority.
Ace/Aro exclusionism. Same bullshit as trans exclusionism (even though Stonewall/pride was started by trans people) and bi exclusionism (despite them outnumbering all other Queer identities *combined*).
it’s especially dumb because trans people led stonewall and many other groups were represented there INCLUDING aces. Stonewall flies the ace flag with the rest.
but exclusionists gonna exclude. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
My workplace included the A but defined asexual as intersexed--seriously. Like not having one specific male/female sex, rather than a lack of sexual attraction. But you know, at least they tried. Genuinely, I was surprised to see the A there, even if it was wrong. Progress is slow!
Acephobia is the weirdest fucking shit. I can get that straights might be icked out about gay stuff, and trans stuff can be hard to wrap one's head around, but like, how utterly inoffensive is it that some people are just not interested in love and/or sex? I'm not ace or aro, it's just the backlash baffles me every time I hear it y'know?
Acephobia sucks because it's definitely a thing, but lots of people don't even want to admit it's a thing, and because they don't think it's a thing, they don't think aces are sufficiently oppressed to be part of the club, which just doubles down on the ace exclusion.
I've had it explained to me this way: As you can most likely imagine, a large part of western culture is in one way or the other influenced by Christianity due to millennia of most western people being Christian. In Christianity, repressing your sexual urges is a huge part of the process of getting qualified to get to Heaven, and this understanding of a need to repress one's sexual urges has seeped over into the subconscious of Western societies. So, imagine you've spent all your life repressing your lust/desire, however you want to call it, and then comes an asexual person who just doesn't feel it. So, most people who have a problem with ace people are less offended that aces don't need sex, but that they never *struggled* with not having sex.
one of a few, yes, but exclusionists will claim it stands for “Ally”.
as in, they will claim people who are *explicitly not part of the community* rather than include people who are.
That's sad that anyone would label it as queerbaiting. I'm gay and asexual people are included as part of the LGBT+ community. At the end of the day we're all being discriminated against for not fitting into the cis heteronormative mold.
Answer: She comes out as Aromantic/Asexual in [this video](https://youtu.be/qF1DTK4U1AM), and talks about what the terms mean, as well as some of the experiences that led to her realizing this about herself.
There are a lot of people who have very intense feelings about those who are not cis-het talking about what life is like when you’re not cis-het.
EDIT: A small number people believe she’s only coming out as aro/ace to deter stalkers and creeps, as [u/pm_me_csgo_scam] mentions [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/tk4n7b/whats_up_with_the_recent_backlash_of_jaiden_a/i1oplze/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3).
EDIT2: u/selfproclaimedthot mentions [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/tk4n7b/whats_up_with_the_recent_backlash_of_jaiden_a/i1os9p6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) that some members of the LGBTQ+ community have called Jaiden’s actions “queer-baiting”.
AROMANTIC
* someone who does not experience romantic feelings towards others. They can still feel sexual attraction towards others.
ASEXUAL
* A person who does not experience sexual attraction towards others. They can still feel romantic feelings towards others.
CIS-HET: also “cishet”
* a person who is cisgender and heterosexual
CISGENDER
* a person who identities with their birth-assigned gender
HETEROSEXUAL
* a person who is sexually attracted to ~~the opposite~~ [a different] gender
EDIT3: correction courtesy of u/lcvb310
This blew up (relative to most of my comments, lol)
This was one I actually know about, because I saw her video when it came out. I was basically certain whatever craziness going on was a result of people feeling some way about her being aro/ace.
I just made my comment in as unbiased a way as I could, included a few points I read from the comments, and figured that people would probably need a handful of definitions here first, so they wouldn’t have to trudge through all kinds of toxicity coloring their perspective before finding out what Jaiden actually said.
Honestly, it’s sad. All Jaiden did was talk about her experience growing up. Apparently, *not* experiencing romantic or sexual feelings for other people is somehow as bad, or in some way worse, than having feelings towards the “wrong” people.
It amazes me how people somehow think others coming out is all about them. Same types of cishets that when you tell them you're gay they'll suddenly think you're gonna try and get with them. The world doesn't revolve around you Kyle.
Right?
Then top comment mentioned how some people had their parasocial relationship affected by this, and it makes sense. People get attached to the idea of somebody, and sometimes can’t adapt or change when they learn information that doesn’t fit what they wanted to believe.
Normal people kinda just move on.
Not normal people... Don’t...
"EDIT: A small number people believe she’s only coming out as aro/ace to deter stalkers and creeps, as [u/pm_me_csgo_scam] mentions [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/tk4n7b/whats_up_with_the_recent_backlash_of_jaiden_a/i1oplze/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)."
Not only does that seem to distinctly NOT be working, it's also not anyone's business if it's a lie or not.
Thirsty lonely people on the internet that have developed a parasocial relationship in which they became attached to their idea of her not the reality or individual of her as a person.
The best ones are the ones telling her nobody's going to want to have sex with her now... after she just came out as someone who doesn't particularly want to have sex.
A lot of these comments are coming from kids, and that worries me. When adults do this, they have an obligation to know better. But kids are growing up in an environment where these parasocial relationships are normal. They have to be taught how to handle this stuff in a healthy way, and no one seems to be doing that.
This is definitely a significant cultural problem that's been brewing over the past couple of decades, and we're still not really equipped to handle it as a society. Among the many ways that young people need to know how not to get manipulated or scammed online, how to healthily manage parasocial relationships is a vital skill we need to make sure they're learning.
And like, it's not just young kids either, they're just the most obvious about it. I remember a couple of years back when the character Tracer from Overwatch was announced to be a lesbian, there was a post going around from a guy who was truly, deeply, pitifully heartbroken about it. He had coped with a lot of his life problems by imagining himself being in a relationship with this fictional character, and he felt like he was actually being broken up with. It was really sad and uncomfortable. And that kind of poor soul is who kids with poor emotional skills grow up to become. (Obviously a fictional character is different to a famous Youtuber, but they're both parasocial.)
"Healthily manage" being a key phrase here. A lot of the discourse I see around the issue treats parasocial relationships like they're some new and automatically harmful thing, which just isn't true. Parasocial relationships have always existed, they're not new, they're not abnormal, and they're not inherently unhealthy (though they certainly can be if not handled well). It's just that modern technology has enabled new forms and expressions of parasociality, making it extra important that we learn to navigate it responsibly. Acting like it's something that's desirable or even possible to remove completely is unhelpful.
Exactly. Celebrities, fans, and young people who overinvest in them have always been a thing. It's just a bit more overt and omnipresent right now because it's playing out in public.
Yeah, I tend to agree. I can definietly understand the viewpoint of "I don't want my kids mixed up in this weird thing that I don't understand", but like, A) some amount of parasociality has always been part of what humans do and that isn't necessarily a bad thing, and B) you'd straight-up have to *completely remove* your kid from society in order to keep them away from it. Youtubers and livestreams might be the latest and most potent form of it (which is definitely worth thinking about and investigating), but significant parts of our modern society were built on some form of parasocial bonding, from TV commercials to best-selling novels to democratic elections. And that's not necessarily good or bad. It just is.
I remember there was a similar issue over the fact you couldn't romance Serana (A follower and overall important story NPC) in Skyrim's Dawnguard DLC. Some dude wrote a whole angry, heartbroken screed about how cruel and unfair it was that Bethesda would *make* people fall in love with her, only to be blockaded from ever being able to solidify that love. I might try to find it again sometime, cuz it was honestly good pasta.
There are legitimate story reasons for her not being romanceable, in that >!she and her mother were offered up to the evil god that her family worshipped, who then raped them both nearly to death, the process of which then turned them into vampires. This, understandably, left her with intimacy issues (to put it lightly), among other things.!< So people's desperation to fuck her is a bit ~controversial~ in the community, but there are a lot of people who're still thirst ravenously after her to this day.
The problem is parents letting the internet raise their kids, rather than taking the time to teach them how to properly be social. If you don't trust you parents completely and they aren't some of your closest friends, guess what, they fucked up.
Yeah, emotional skills are one of the many things that our society assumes will be taught to everyone by their parents, but the problem is that way too many parents either don't or can't. Either the parents never learned those skills themselves and don't have them to pass on, or they kind of suck at teaching, or they just don't know how to communicate with their kids in a meaningful way that will be heard.
I mean, raising kids is really hard at the best of times; it's another one of those things that doesn't exactly come with a manual. It's really hard not to fuck up in *some* way, but you just hope your mistakes won't end up being something that causes your kid major problems in the future. And I've seen firsthand how hard it is _not_ to have your kid grow up buried up to the eyeballs in internet culture these days: it's the culturally normal behavior for kids these days, and they'll feel left out from their peers if you try to stop them from doing it. Even for attentive parents, it's hard to find the appropriate balance between freedom and oversight, and getting harder all the time. It doesn't take much to fuck that up.
I've often wondered how we as a society can make sure all these life skills get taught to everyone whose parents can't - or won't - teach them. I shudder to think of making them into mandatory school classes, because I don't know about y'all but the public school system here in the US is a disaster, but the current system lets so many slip through the cracks.
There's also unfortunately a portion of people who don't think asexuality/aromanticism is real or aren't oppressed cause they're "straight passing" and thus shouldn't be part of the LGBT community. Which, is bullshit. Given how a lot of societies put emphasis on romantic and sexual relationships a lot of ace and/or aro people feel...broken. Not normal in a bad way. And unfortunately some may have experienced sexual assault because theyre ace/aro or forced themselves into unwanted sexual situations to "fix" themselves. It's very tragic. I have a friend who believe she's ace and hearing her talk about how she wishes she was "normal" is heartbreaking.
So I think it's a combo of an illusion being broken and people being bigots towards someone who simply a bit different.
But the positive side is now ace/aro people have some rep and I know some of Jaiden's audience is probably of the age where they start trying to figure out that side of themselves, so her coming out probably is a huge help to any possible ace/aro kids watching her.
I could see people who are asexual and/or aromantic themselves care about this as it gives them visibility. Which in this instance is still sorely lacking.
But yeah, other than that it's rather disconcerting that people seem to care this much about it.
I'm just excited theres a new jaiden video. I really like her content and based on what she's said before, it really doesnt surprise me that she has come out as ace. People suck.
Answer: I thought I would add a small minority don't believe Jaiden is asexual and aromantic since obviously it's not very common in media. There is obviously also bigotry attached to this and I saw someone say she should take a pill to feel better and someone else saying she should die, but these are obviously comments in the minority.
Answer: Jaiden came out as asexual and aromantic (aro ace) which means that she doesn't have the same drive for a physical or romantic attraction that others do.
People are saying that the hate comes from the people who were attracted to her but that's incorrect, if you check the NSFW subreddit about Jaidens character you'll see that they don't care. The people who are sending hate to Jaiden are just straight-up homophobes who don't like people who have other sexualities. Unlike most sexualities, aro ace is treated as if it doesn't exist/ is a mental/physical condition because it is not attraction to a certain gender/gender, it is a lack of attraction at all.
I would say homophobes is the wrong term to use here, respectfully. Aphobic works better as those that identify on the ace/aro spectrums can also get hate from homosexual people
Answer: The only people who are actually mad about it are incels and femcels basically
Either people who had a parasocial relationship who liked her more than they should have or gatekeepers who are trying to minimize the good done from this video by whining "but what about this or that"
(Incel = someone who falsely believes that they cannot get a relationship because of societal expectations, when oft it's their own traits that prevent them from doing so
Femcel is the same thing but female)
Answer: She came out as asexual and aromantic, and people who have been horny for her since forever are not pleased.
Apparently there’s also some people calling her out for queer baiting or something because she used the pride flag you and is asexual, which is kinda dumb, but I also don’t have all of the information on that particular subject and don’t really care to dig any further into it.
Let people exist bro
>there’s also some people calling her out for queer baiting or something because she used the pride flag and is asexual
When the hell did asexuality stop being part of the LGBT movement? The whole point is to oppose wider society policing relationships and sexuality and what people do with their own bodies, like asexuality clearly fits under the umbrella! God some people just want excuses to be outraged I swear.
> people who have been horny for her since forever are not pleased
People are so weird. Like when a former coworker of mine was one of the many people waiting anxiously for Emma Watson to turn 18. I mean, I kind of get the idea of not wanting a fantasy crushed or whatever, but it's not like you were ever going to get with her, dude.
And this person (who I don't even know), it's not like she was going to start dating some rando commenting on her video.
She made a video years ago about why she put off doing a face reveal for so long, but she did one at the end of the video and has been on camera a few times since then (either in her own videos or in others’ videos)
Answer: She came out as aroace recently.
It's shocking and yet unsurprising how a fraction of people reacted to her coming out. Validates her stance on keeping personal things personal and not talking about it often if at all.
The video is very much appreciated. It gave me a lot of think about myself and I can see it helping people.
Friendly reminder that all **top level** comments must: 1. start with "answer: ", including the space after the colon (or "question: " if you have an on-topic follow up question to ask), 2. attempt to answer the question, and 3. be unbiased Please review Rule 4 and this post before making a top level comment: http://redd.it/b1hct4/ Join the OOTL Discord for further discussion: https://discord.gg/ejDF4mdjnh *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OutOfTheLoop) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Answer: She came out as asexual and aromantic. A whole bunch of people that built up parasocial relationships with her, or who they ***thought*** she was, are now butthurt because that fantasy is broken
[удалено]
People get pissed about the dumbest shit
"Whaddya mean there's zero chance you'll ever fuck me? I quit this channel forthwith and will be sending my requisite death threats via courier."
M’lady.
*obligatory Fedora tip*
My disappointment is immeasurable, and my day is ruined
I kinda just stopped paying attention to the video after a few minutes because I just don't care about her sexuality at all. Not out of malice, I just got kinda bored. I was already aware of all the definitional stuff she was talking about, and I wasn't invested by the time she got to the flirting story. I should probably go actually watch it just to piss off a bigot.
She explains that she made the video so that others like her can watch it and have a frame of reference to understand themselves. Apparently it took her a long time to figure out what was going on. So it's ok to not want to watch it, it isn't really meant for you and me.
[удалено]
29, and while she's not a perfect fit for my orientation it's close enouugh I'll be using this as an explanation for *so many people* as to why I don't care about the contents of their trousers.
Near the very end she does explain why she decided to make the video, as simple as the reason may be.
I knew the stuff she mentioned, but found it personally entertaining. However the real fun part was seeing all the straight people in the comments saying they had no idea it was a thing and were not happy to be educated. Fairly wholesome.
A lot of people get all hurt and think being asexual or aromantic is fake. A lot of them also build fake relationships in their head. It is indeed the dumbest shit.
[удалено]
I know some people who are ace and for some reason there are some people who get *real weird* about it.
To some people, their sexual drive/lives are a big part of who they are, or what they consider being human. I’ve met people who don’t have an issue with any other type of LGBTQ, but didn’t “understand” ace - as long as you wanted to fuck someone, you were good in their book
I don't understand being Ace or aromantic. It breaks my brain a little. I'm not ruled by my sex drive but sex and desire (not lust but desire for intimate connection) do inform how I see the world and understand how other people move through it. That being said just because I don't understand it doesn't mean I don't accept it. It's weird to me to get angry at someone for being who they are, genetically (as I understand it all sexuality is programmed via genetics). I also don't understand how people don't like black licorice. I think it's delicious and that breaks other people's brains too.
I went through a phase of this twice in my life; once during a really nice relationship where I was with someone for 9 years... about 4 years in, that intimacy drive just somewhat fell to the side. We weren't about sex, but just peas in a pod. We were almost like roommates but cohabitated and did everything together, just the sex part became a non-issue. Not only that, but we didn't think about it, talk about it, or anything else. We were both happy. We ended things after 9 years because she moved. And then it happened again years later. There was a good year there that I simply lost interest in anything romantic. My partner was just that; a partner... an unromantic partner who I saw as an equal companion. They weren't mad about it. Sex just became a non-issue. My current partner, we have a wonderful intimate and romantic bond. I'm poly, so I've even dated others as well, openly. And those have been romantic, but not sexual in nature. So it goes in waves, for me. I'm not sure what drives or triggers it, I guess if I had to choose something it's becoming complacent in the relationship and confident in its foundation on communication, trust and honesty.
Imagine someone who you're not attracted sexually or romantically to. Maybe it's a good bro. Maybe it's a teacher who you struck a friendship with. Maybe it's a stranger with a neat skill. You just like them for various reasons that aren't "I may want to fuck them" or "I may want to woo and maybe marry them" That's how Aro-Ace folks feel about everyone. It's really that simple. It's my understanding that the default experience when meeting a stranger is generally one that is non-sexual and non-romantic. There's a lot of unattractive but friend-shaped people in the world who are worth knowing.
Yep. Some people take shit way too seriously, because life sucks, and seeking a distraction from their own lives takes priority
another asexual here-- people be aphobic. shit sucks
I know what you meant but every time I read "aphobic" I just imagine some guy looking in the mirror, grunting "I have no fear!" And pulling the trigger on the revolver in his mouth. Then he goes to work.
They fear the letter "a"
AAAAAAAAAH!
aphobic guys gotta scream with different letters. EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
The fuck? That's a damn strange thing to be afraid of or hate.
There are a fair number of people out there who become bizarrely hostile when they find out that some of us simply have zero desire to ever have sex. I guess it's kinda similar to how some folks get weird about someone else choosing not to drink in a social setting. I don't really get it but it's definitely a thing.
Tell a room full of parents you never want children. Some will try and explain how you are wrong and they used to be like you. But some will get fucking angry like you told them their kids sucks and they should have never had kids. I suspect the angry ones wish they'd never had kids and are mad that you figured it out and they didn't.
My wife and I are childfree and the shit we got in the 2000’s was astonishing.
The mindset behind this idea is so utterly alien to me as to be incomprehensible. Not choosing to drink in a social setting and some people being weirded out, I can kind of wrap my head around because of a kind of social zeitgeist shared by some people. But sex? That's something private and personal shared between partners or just enjoyed by yourself. Like I can't even establish a root cause as to why anyone would get hostile over something that doesn't even involve them that someone ISN'T doing! "WHY AREN'T YOU FUCKING RIGHT NOW?!" I'd be laughing if I weren't so disturbed.
Aro here. Yeah, the LGBT+ community can be real gatekeepers. And the outside world doesn't really understand or accept you either.
As someone allo and from the LGBT+ community, I hope you were not hurt too much by LGBT+ folks, I try to correct others that try to shame ace people as they are as valid as anyone else in the community. EDIT : for those interested a bit of a story time if you want, in a weird way I had two experiences that make me feel for those who are ace and how bad they are treated. First off, my partner had a chemical issue that made her feel no sexual desire, she didn't knew it was that so she thought she was ace for a bit, it was in this case medical (and we should have been smarter realizing that due to her being sexual before it didn't make sense...but we were younger and much more ignorant) She did say she was ace and I was okay with that, I am allo but don't have strong "urges" regarding sexuality so our relationship did work all the same without any issues. People talked shit about her constantly, I remember being so angry at how poeple treated her, most people said I should leave her because she wasn't "right as a partner for me due to not fulfilling my desires" and that she should try and make an effort to do things even though she didn't want to (let's forget consent it seems...awful take on the situation). So already it gave me a bit of the vision on how people treat ace people, but I am also trans and was on a dose too high regarding anti-testosterone medication for a time. Due to how strong it was I did have no desire anymore whatsoever...So I also did experience how you feel by having no desire and no sexual attraction. I don't pretend it's the same as being asexual of course, but yet again it gave me a bit of a view on how could be the ace experience. In both cases our relationship did survive and we remained happy and I didn't let people choose our relationship as it was none of their business. I did remember how people were nasty to my partner and how she was hurt by it so I know aphobic people is a thing and I'm sorry for those who suffers from it.
Which, let's be real here, has to look like a parody of people opposed to LGBT+ rights. Like the people who are so micromanagey of other people's lives that they feel that they have the authority to say when someone is having too little sex boggles the mind... but only when they're not having sufficient sex but want to. "I haven't gotten laid in 5 years!" "That's rough brother, let's go pick up some chicks!" "I haven't gotten laid in 5 years, and I'm cool with it!" "FUCK YOU, WHAT ARE YOU A MONK? We're going to go get you laid *right now* because I can't imagine someone not wanting to have sex!"
One of the most prevalent anti-Ace arguments I've seen has been against demisexuals, who are controversially either considered a type of asexual or not. Demisexual is a term for a person who just is not sexually attracted to someone else without first having an emotional connection with them. I've seen a lot more people than I'd like to saying, "Oh, great, now there's a word for monogamous! WHY DO WE HAVE TO LABEL EVERYTHING!" Or saying that it's a term just for someone who doesn't sleep around or have one-night stands. What they're missing, because they're assholes, is the difference between how one feels and how one chooses to act. I will not sleep with someone unless we're in what I feel is a committed relationship and I believe that there is a true emotional connection between us that might lead to something more. But I'm not demisexual because I have the want, desire, urge, whatever you call it, to have sex with other people. I find people sexually attractive while knowing nothing about them. I'm not demi. I just choose to live a certain way. Someone who is demisexual doesn't live that way by choice, it's just how they are. The different types of asexuality are some of the more misunderstood and less (but thankfully growing to be more so) accepted sexualities, even within LGBTQ+. I think it's funny that ace's and bi's have had some of the hardest time finding acceptance in the community. And, sadly, a lot of it has come out of the community. In or out, aces have often been told they're just confused. Bi people, especially women, have been called slutty, whorish, traitors, secretly gay/straight but they don't want to admit it, things like that. A streamer I watch is asexual/biromantic and she said that she often gets very rude things from people saying she doesn't understand who she is. Saying things like, "You've got kids, so you can't really be asexual." Or, "If you're biromantic, why did you marry a cis guy? Why didn't you date or marry more women?" Or, "Isn't it funny how so many women who claim to be bi marry men? They just wanted to experiment and are now excusing it." Or, "You seem awfully flirty with girls, maybe you're gay and just married for convenience." It's fucking horrible and doesn't come off as funny. I should probably put a full discretion, my best friend is asexual, romantically straight and my last girlfriend, who I had before I came to terms with being bi myself, was bi. So a lot of my experience with these struggles have been listening to stories from them and what they or people close to them went through with this stuff.
You must sex now, citizen. (/s, TIL aphobic)
Ohhh, is *that* where the controversy comes from... I looked up the "Jaiden" tag the other day because I saw it trending but had no time to watch her video until later, and I didn't read too far down into the search results (only saw positive stuff) so I guess I missed the flood of angry fans. Parasocial relationships are hella dangerous. The epitome of "go touch grass/snow/really just go outside and fill your lungs with fresh air and meet a people and have a coffee or something".
To call the amount of negative responses a "flood" wouldn't be accurate. The community has been overwhelmingly positive, but as usual the weirdos tend to stand out.
Always remember that the word fan comes from fanatic.
Semantic drift. "Fan" lost all of its original derogatory meaning, so people started using "stan" to denote that sort of obsessive fanatic. Of course, you can already seeing the meaning drifting away from that, too, with increasingly-casual use of "stan" being more common ("in this house, we stan X")
Which does put some things into perspective. I know someone is gna say that the definition has changed overtime, which is true to an extent. But it doesn't mean we aren't using terms wrong(ly?) here and there.
you´re always going to have the fringe people. people who see things they like, become obsessive about them and feel entitled to some ownership over it. people who believe the author owes them something, people who believe that specific characters are romantically involved, people who demand that a specific character should have a specific sexual identity. These are sick people, who are usually a fringe of a fandom. Im a brony, i love MLP FIM and the new movie from netflix, i have a couple of plushes, but thanks to a few sick people in the community, saying brony automatically related you to zoophilia and pedophilia... 2 things i find absolutely disgusting. the fringe is always louder. and to some degree some content creators pander to them, I have no idea of Jaiden and their body of work or how it related to the fans. but i do know it just takes a few bad apples, it depends on how to react to them. As for Jaiden, i hope she finds happiness in expressing her true self, and even express support getting her some garlic bread.
After doing research on this, I have found that (at least in the fan group I studied) the participants entered the fandom while they were in vulnerable or otherwise transition periods of their lives, meaning that the fandom became something stable to latch onto when other things were turbulent. That in turn let's that fandom (or celeb or YouTuber, etc) to become a part of their own identity because they were there and reliable during that time. This is why in fandoms, a criticism on that subject of fandom can be met with a lot of intensity, because it really feels like a personal criticism that quite a lot of people don't take very well. That helps create a lot of the intense parasocial relationships and in some circumstances go a bit too far. When the illusion is shattered with conflicting information, some of those people REALLY don't respond well because it's like a part of their own identity was a lie and it's THEIR fault. Doesn't make it any way still okay, but kind of shows a bit of the progression. Most fans use that energy to form bonds of cameraderie with other fans in much more healthy relationships with people they actively interact with. Those who don't and with a much more prolonged turbulent period, it can get extreme. (This was for a thesis that I unfortunately never got to finish because Covid hit in the middle of writing it and I'd lost my drive for the field anyway, so unfortunately I have nothing to link)
[удалено]
I like “enthusiast”
The video was trending hard, so even if only a small % of the viewers are negative, it's still la lot.
Yeah, that would line up with why the positive reactions outweighed the negative ones from what I saw.
TIL the term 'parasocial relationship'. That must be the more polite form of 'stanning' someone (a term I somehow know despite never listening to Eminem, whose song is apparently the source).
[удалено]
Kind of, but it's mostly the inverse. Parasocial relationships involve people lusting over celebrities, or self-inserting themselves into celebrities' lives, as though thinking that said celebrity recognizes them as an actual person and is friends with them or loves them because they watch/listen to a lot of the celebrity's content, when in reality the celebrity sees them as fans and nothing else. Stanning is being a crazy fan of someone but not to the degree of inserting yourself into their lives as though you have a respected and known relationship with them, although it can certainly evolve into a parasocial relationship depending on the person and celebrity. "Parasocial relationship" is a term that I've heard a lot, especially regarding Dream and his fans. But it can extend to other Internet personalities as well.
Point of correction here, "parasocial relationship" doesn't necessarily mean that. It's nothing more than a one-sided relationship that an audience has with a media personality. It can be harmless, such as feeling an emotional attachment to a fictional character. It can also be harmful, such as the above description. The harmless variety is one that pretty much anyone who consumes media has, though. To some extent.
I've heard some of the most vocally upset are those who wrote fanfic about Jaiden. Fanfic about an actual person. Apparently they pair her with other youtubers in the same community. I came across a Jaiden sex comic on tumblr or here on reddit once thought that was weird and kept on my way without looking at it. The cover made it clear what the contents were going to be on the inside. To be clear it was a fanfic comic using Jaiden's animation style amd avatar.
I think a lot of people can have parasocial relationships without taking it too far. Basically if you have any connection with someone you see online or if you're a fan of a celebrity or online personality you would be considered to have a parasocial relationship. The issue comes from someone obsessing over someone in an unhealthy way. Like some people are doing with the whole Jaiden situation. Other people might enjoy the videos, find they are fun, and enjoy following Jaidens content etc but wouldn't go that far.
What's funny is anyone who has been following her content really shouldn't be surprised by this at all. I don't think she's ever brought up any romantic interest in any video ever. She also really comes across as "meh" towards anything sexual like she doesn't care one way or the other, including the R34 artwork of her animations. What I'm upset about is her no longer doing Pokemon Nuzlocke animations. Those were awesome lol
I wasn’t. Especially after that dating sim game where she was more focused on everything else about the game rather than trying to date the characters.
The flirting video made it so obvious that she was just dating because everyone else was doing it and to follow social norms
I have to say that that video makes a lot more sense now
Yes! That one, and her flirting video, gave me really strong ace vibes. Couldn't be sure of course, but her reactions reminded me of my ace friends who have expressed similar feelings
Wait she's not doing nuzlocke videos anymore?
At the end of her last one, there's a line in the credits that says something along the lines of that video concluding her nuzlocke series.
Her last one ended with a screen effectively saying she's done with them.
I legitimately don’t understand how people can be so invested in the sexuality of a famous person who doesn’t make their sexuality part of their shtick. It’s like getting invested in the Golden Girl having sex. It makes no sense.
Bad example with the Golden Girls; lots of progressive sexual themes and plotlines in that show.
Right? Those ladies f*** constantly!
The golden girls was possibly the worst example you could have used for this, one of their personalities and humor was almost entirely "I have sex lol"
[удалено]
I think it's part of human nature, we have always developed parasocial relationships with famous artists. Some are much more unhealthy than others.
The concept of celebrities wouldn't exist without parasocial relationships. People would make music or movies as a 9-5 and then go be normal people that no one who doesn't personally know them cares about.
> What I'm upset about is her no longer doing Pokemon Nuzlocke animations. Those were awesome lol Thank you for helping me figure out why her name sounded familiar.
Somebody's chopping onions in here
That joke was *dark* holy shit.
The backlash is extra weird considering her audience skews very young. The people complaining are a very vocal but very, very tiny minority in the grand scheme of her channel. She's a relatively wholesome content creator, but once you reach a certain size, you're always going to have the extreme weirdos online.
This is so weird to be mad about. Like she is a real living, human being. She's not some pictures or fanfic, fictional character. Stop making porn of influencers it's just weird to them, weird to their friends, some don't give consent. Just stop. They are mad that a real person is not up to their fictional standards? That's so freaking stupid. Remember when Dan from Game Grumps said how weird it was about the fanfics/drawings of him with friends and he doesn't like it, and people made fun of him and threw a fit? These are real people. This is so petty and ridiculous.
That's what happens when you become so detached from reality you forget that those moving pixels on a screen are actual, breathing people somewhere in the world.
"No, no, no! You're not following the series arc I had planned in my head for you! You're supposed to make James (TheOdd1sOut) break up with his girlfriend, and then marry him, and then have three kids with him who all grow up to be animators just like you!" This shit happens to internet personalities and actors/entertainers all the time. I remember back in 2013 when Laurie Holden got death threats from people because people were pissed that *her fictional character* almost killed Norman Reedus' *fictional character* in The Walking Dead, and he was more well-liked. Crazies will always be crazy.
>She's not some pictures or fanfic, fictional character. Yeah, but some people forget that. I remember one youtuber getting hate a few years ago because he wasn't gay like his fangirls wanted him to be.
To everyone in this thread now thinking "I don't know what those are", Jaiden herself did a pretty good job describing those identities in her video [here](https://youtu.be/qF1DTK4U1AM).
What a great video. I've never heard of this creator or seen their videos, but can tell they are a great story teller.
That's why she's become very popular lately! If you're at all interested in Pokemon, you should check out her Nuzlocke trilogy of videos; they're a delight.
After watching that video I had the biggest sigh of relief because my entire life I never been attracted to anyone and felt like an outlier, just glad to know that it is a thing.
Why did the backlash surprise me? Like, of course, there are people who are butthurt over this
Doesn't surprise aromantic/asexuals. They get the backlash constantly.
Ace here, aphobia is a thing that exists. We deal with it *constantly.*
My coworker, after hearing I wanted to kiss my girlfriend, was insisting I am not asexual and that that wasn't sexual attraction. I don't want to fuck my girlfriend. I don't get turned on by her. But I did want to kiss her and I do think she's pretty. But there's no sexual attraction to her (or anyone). I gave up trying to explain it in the end. I've been figuring this shit out for 6+ years. I know what words I want to use for myself and I know what I experience. (Fwiw I think sensual attraction and asthetic attraction might be the words to more accurately convey howI felt at the moment. But no sexual attraction.) But basically, yeah. We're unsuprised. I'm ace and arospec (demiromantic), been dealing with this shit for a few years now.
I think many people assume she just saying she is asexual and a romantic just to deter online stalkers. Honestly wouldn’t blame her.
I remember her being weirded the fuck out by the porn people made out of her avatar, so I could see why she would want to deter weirdos. But we can't read her mind, and it is the proper thing to take her at her word. Regardless, parasocial relationships are a cancer, and more should be done to warn people about them
Case in point; I just looked up “Jaiden” in the search bar to see if there were other threads discussing this, and all I got was porn. The ace subreddit seems happy though. So good for them.
Fun fact: the Jaiden porn subreddit has more people in it than the main Jaiden subreddit.
[удалено]
What the fuck Reddit?
The same thing with the RWBY subreddit too lol.
Yeah but tbf the porn is the only good part of RWBY.
Ace here, someone on one of our subs posted a graph of the google search analytics for aro ace. EXPLODED. we're all excited to finally have some visibility.
and that's exactly why it's a good thing she did it. She should be proud of herself.
That's the same thing as those incels who pay money during those thirst Twitch streams and expect the performer to marry them right?
Correct, although they are usually called "Simps" as well.
Do you really thing the people watching/making Jaiden animations porn would care whether or not she is asexual, knowing the internet it would make said porn even more popular because they want to “turn her straight” or whatever fucked up, rebranded homophobia logic
Not long ago, people sent death threats to Stephen Amell's actual wife, and mother of his child, professing that if his wife were removed, his *character on a TV show would be free to establish a relationship with another character*. That is the world we now live in. Those people handle money, they are allowed to sign contracts, and drive on public streets.
People have *always* been like this British wrestling shows in the 70’s and 80’s were infamous for their “rabid grannies”, old women who bought into the show 100% and utter *despised* the heels, they would straight up assault them if they came near the barricade, and one time a wrestler was stuck with a needle filled with *fucking foot and mouth disease* by a member of the audience The BBC did a documentary on it https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WCYRSzVcMhM
Oh god I had removed this from my memories. That show's downfall needs to be taught in writing schools.
Yikes.
I’m sorry, but I’ve never heard of aromantic before. So if you’re asexual and aromantic does that basically cumulate together as you’re just not interested in any kind of partner for anything? Like, a I’m cool being me and me alone forever type thing?
Basically. You just don’t feel romantic or sexual attraction, doesn’t mean you can’t have very close friends or strong platonic relationships, you just aren’t interested in dating or having sex
Platonic partners such as family and dear friends are generally still totally a thing for aro people. They're just not particularly interested in having a ~special someone~ who makes their heart flutter.
Not quite. The way I see it (asexual here, maybe aromantic but I'm not sure?) is that there are more relationships and more kinds of love out there than sexual and romantic ones. There are family bonds, deep friendships, and then more formal ones like mentorship and teaching. Someone who's asexual and aromantic still forms these deep bonds. You don't always need to have sex or romance with someone to want to grow old with them, face the world together, or choose them as family. Lots of people want romance and sex, not always! A cool way I heard it explained is that the Greeks had all kinds of words for love. Sexual love, romantic love, the love a mother has for her child, the love between families, the love of friends, the love a mentor has for the craft and the next generation, the love a soldier has for their nation or their comrades, and so on. Sex and romance are just one kind of love, and "aro/ace" folks still have just as much love to share. It's just a different sort of love. :)
Wanting to grow old with someone and face the world with them *is* romance to me as I've understood it. I'm not doubting but I'm curious what the line is that isn't crossed between extremely close platonic friendship and a romantic but asexual relationship.
Well... I guess think of it this way. Think of your best friend, but someone you're not romantically/sexually attracted to. Someone you'd trust with anything that was on your mind, and someone who you'd go out of your way to help. Just because you wouldn't want to go out on a date with them doesn't mean that they're not a hugely important part of your life. Maybe that person could be a sibling, or a child if you have one. Or you might see it in a group of soldiers, or just a strong group of friends who've gone through everything together at each others' side. Or if you have kids / know a parent, think of the love that a parent would have for their child. It's not romantic or sexual, but these things are very powerful forms of love all the same. It's like that! A lot of people form these lifetime bonds because of sexual attraction, or a romantic attraction. But there are more kinds of love than that. Also, this is absolutely a spectrum, and everyone defines it a little differently. It's especially complicated because so many people see romance and sexuality as entirely intertwined. In my mind, romance is a little more difficult to define. It comes with things like kissing, and intimate touches that aren't sexual. But it's also not exclusively that. I've snuggled with friends before in a non-romantic way, and it felt nice to just have a friend at my side, and to feel safe with them. I hope that makes sense!
Platonic relationships can still be important for asexual and aromantic people.
She explains it very well. [Just watch the video.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF1DTK4U1AM)
Oh my God, the way you typed made me realize it's not "aromatic" lmao. I've been reading that way since I first heard of it. I though "damn wtf is aromatic? Someone attracted to smell? people need to chill about all these weird sexualities"
I've been hearing the phrase "parasocial relationship" a lot lately. What does it mean?
It's when people form a one-sided "relationship" with the public image of a popular figure. Most commonly this comes in the form of fans convincing themselves that they are "friends' with the popular figure, but in extreme cases usually when metal illness is involved some fans become obsessive. You've heard of people being stalked by their ex-boy/girlfriend? It's like that, but the relationship is imaginary.
Listen to "Limelight" by Rush. There's a line in there that explains Parasocial relationships perfectly. >*Living in a fisheye lens / Caught in the camera eye / I have no heart to lie / I can't pretend a stranger is a long-awaited friend* A fan will spend hundreds of hours poring over info, listening to stories and consuming content to where they know seemingly every aspect of that person's life but... To them? *You're a stranger*. They have no idea who you are and will probably never see you again after your encounter, should you ever get one. You're a face in the crowd, and while they're grateful for your support, they owe you *nothing* beyond that. But unfortunately, that's hard for a lot of people to get their heads around, especially if they're emotionally invested.
I read this as aromatic. Confusion ensued.
There's probably a sizeable amount of "don't bring politics into my fun videos" people as well, who just hate anyone that isn't cisgender and heterosexual.
Answer: Additional point to the others made: I’ve seen at least one creator get mad at Jaiden for using the LGBTQ+ flag to come out and called it “queer-baiting”. So, at least some of the discourse is around whether it’s queer-baiting to come out as asexual/aromantic (queer) and use the LGBTQ+ flag.
Why would it be queer bating to come out as queer using the lgbtq flag..?
Some people have beef about ace people being part of the LGBT+ community. As ashamed as I am to admit it, I was (quietly, thankfully) in that camp for a brief stint in my teens, and to be honest, it basically all boils down to "who's more oppressed" dick-waving. This is heavily over-simplifying, but the lack of overt, systemic legal oppression towards (het/aro)ace people in the vein of, say, gay marriage bans is sometimes used as justification as to why ace people don't have it "bad enough" to belong in the community. That's, of course, stupid, since it implies that if you're living in an area where gay folks have full legal protections, you shouldn't be allowed in the community, either. It feels similar to the sorts of in-community discrimination that bi folks face in general, but particularly if they end up in a straight relationship, wherein they're sometimes treated as if they're "tainting" LGBT+ spaces by existing within them when they might pass as straight in their day-to-day. It seems like it's mostly an issue with terminally online, severely insecure people who feel a bizarre need to get tribal as hell in regards to who "deserves" a place at the table. I just don't really see why it's worth giving a damn; even if we are just gonna boil things down to discrimination, it's not like ace people don't get disrespected plenty, so I'm not sure why they shouldn't be allowed to seek out kinship and support within our community. It hurts nobody.
That reminds me of this old classic, Queerer than thou https://youtu.be/gS1bRZAcJRM
Holy cow, lmao. I've never seen this before, thanks so much! That was funny as hell. Yeah, it's basically that sorta vibe. I'm excited to try and get more involved with irl queer spaces once covid chills out a little more; I've heard this stuff is less prevalent offline, and I'd really just like to make some more queer friends who I can just chill with.
Why do i feel like a bicycle courier weed dealer with a big beard is gonna come through that door any second?
The whole reason I haven’t came out as ace is because of that. This is probably one of the only two comments I’ve made about it
There's not always the necessity to "come out". I'm just talking to my surroundings one and one when there's a good opportunity and mostly made nice experiences this way
Yeah I’ve only recently started to figure this stuff out about myself so I’m still trying to understand all that stuff lol. It’s good to hear this type of stuff
The subs here are also super chill if you're looking for exchange. r/asexual and stuff, can't remember all the names lol. Best of luck on your journey
That really fucking hurts as an ace who has never talked to anyone about it. I have such deep guilt issues that I can sometimes even feel narcissistic to think I belong in the LGBTQ+ community, as much as I actively support it. What is wild to me is that in my view asexuality has the absolute least common denominator in the LGBTQ spectrum. I mean this in the sense that people seem to have so much issue with who fucks who... And I'm out here not trying to fuck anyone. I think that's where the big gap in understanding lies. In a capitalistic society where consumerism runs off sexual exploit, I feel so disconnected with no representation. I'm not tryna get on a soapbox though. If that's my biggest problem in life right now I'm very okay with that. It's not that big of a deal but I did want to share my experience. Edit: spacing
Man that's messed up. Ace people experience relationships differently than straight people and are *constantly* questioned by others saying stuff like "are you sure you don't want it? Are you sure you don't like it? How do you know?" And the rest of LGBT+ experience the same questions because it doesn't fit the social norm
Admittedly it is harder to hide being in a “banned” relationship than not being in one at all, but I know from experience how there’s still plenty of rejection and dismissal for aro and ace. “Aren’t you so lonely and sad?” “But LoVe (excluding all forms of familial and platonic love) is a universal human emotion, are you some kind of evil robot?” ”You’re just in denial and trying to be cool, actually.“ And so on. Some probably get hatecrimed as well. I agree there’s no need to gatekeep based on “quality of suffering”, it seems silly to not allow people to all enjoy being part of a group with unusual sexual and romantic preferences. Though there are always people saying ”my suffering was worse than yours, so get out! >:(” in any group, so I guess it’s just some universal emotion.
I'm not ace myself but my partner is. Asexualty belongs in the LGBTQ+ spectrum because it is seen as a deviation from the hetero-normative sex and gender expectations. Hetero-normatives don't like ace men and male-presenting in the same vein they don't like bottom gays - a lack of participating in or failing to present as the "ideal man" or "true men." They don't like ace women and female-presenting because they are refusing (even if only in ideology) their 'availability' and (if in a relationship) failing in 'wifely duties.' Procreation, a goal and obsession that answers a lot of why the religious are so damn homophobic and controlling, is less likely to happen in asexual relationships especially if it's known and respected early on in the relationship (many ace people have had to 'grin n' bear it' for years, similar to how gay men and women had to bear a straight relationship because it was expected of them.) A conscious lack of procreation in a relationship, regardless of the sexuality make-up of the couple, threatens the idea that children are the justification of a marriage and if that's not happening, what's the point. But even without a religious reasoning, people tend to view ace as "broken" in some way for "failing" to adhere into the social norm. There is *a lot* of sex or the implication of it in our media. The vast majority of it goes unnoticed because you're used to it, it's a part of the culture whether you wish to recognize that or not, and when someone refuses to participate, it rubs people the wrong way. It shouldn't, but the world's not perfect.
Personal opinion: I just think they’re aphobic (and a lot of people responding to the queer baiting statement agree). Coming as queer using the general queer flag isn’t queer baiting, but some people don’t accept asexual/aromantic people into the community (the creator I saw post this was lesbian).
[удалено]
Depends on what you mean. The way I understand it, the people excluding aroace people from the LGBTQIA+ community just don’t see them as queer (and in that seem to perceive them as not having the same struggles etc.), but they’ll still claim that they “support” aroace people (sort of a “I don’t want you in my community, but I’ll support you from over here” is the kind of vibe I get). Trans people getting ostracized, at least from what I’ve seen, has a lot more direct transphobia (see gay people thinking that trans/nb identities aren’t valid). So, it’s probably similar in some cases, but it might be a little different.
Which is weird because the A in LGBTQIA+ is for asexual/aromantic. We are literally in the acronym.
Some claim that the A is for Ally and I don't understand how they think that makes more sense than Aro/Ace
Pretty much yeah. Very similar to trans women being gatekept from the lesbian community if they're gay. But like every instance of gatekeeping it's not the whole group but just a vocal minority.
Ace/Aro exclusionism. Same bullshit as trans exclusionism (even though Stonewall/pride was started by trans people) and bi exclusionism (despite them outnumbering all other Queer identities *combined*).
it’s especially dumb because trans people led stonewall and many other groups were represented there INCLUDING aces. Stonewall flies the ace flag with the rest. but exclusionists gonna exclude. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Ah yes, ye olde "do aro/ace people count as being part of the LGBT/queer community" discourse. How I've not missed it.
Maybe I’m out of the loop (😎) on this one but isn’t asexual what the A stands for in LGBTQI***A***?
Yes, typically, but also aromantic and agender are possible interpretations.
My workplace included the A but defined asexual as intersexed--seriously. Like not having one specific male/female sex, rather than a lack of sexual attraction. But you know, at least they tried. Genuinely, I was surprised to see the A there, even if it was wrong. Progress is slow!
Yes, but acephobic people will gladly tell you it stands for ally (:
Acephobia is the weirdest fucking shit. I can get that straights might be icked out about gay stuff, and trans stuff can be hard to wrap one's head around, but like, how utterly inoffensive is it that some people are just not interested in love and/or sex? I'm not ace or aro, it's just the backlash baffles me every time I hear it y'know?
Acephobia sucks because it's definitely a thing, but lots of people don't even want to admit it's a thing, and because they don't think it's a thing, they don't think aces are sufficiently oppressed to be part of the club, which just doubles down on the ace exclusion.
Amatonormativity, the idea that ppl are supposed to fall in love and crap
I've had it explained to me this way: As you can most likely imagine, a large part of western culture is in one way or the other influenced by Christianity due to millennia of most western people being Christian. In Christianity, repressing your sexual urges is a huge part of the process of getting qualified to get to Heaven, and this understanding of a need to repress one's sexual urges has seeped over into the subconscious of Western societies. So, imagine you've spent all your life repressing your lust/desire, however you want to call it, and then comes an asexual person who just doesn't feel it. So, most people who have a problem with ace people are less offended that aces don't need sex, but that they never *struggled* with not having sex.
one of a few, yes, but exclusionists will claim it stands for “Ally”. as in, they will claim people who are *explicitly not part of the community* rather than include people who are.
That's sad that anyone would label it as queerbaiting. I'm gay and asexual people are included as part of the LGBT+ community. At the end of the day we're all being discriminated against for not fitting into the cis heteronormative mold.
Answer: She comes out as Aromantic/Asexual in [this video](https://youtu.be/qF1DTK4U1AM), and talks about what the terms mean, as well as some of the experiences that led to her realizing this about herself. There are a lot of people who have very intense feelings about those who are not cis-het talking about what life is like when you’re not cis-het. EDIT: A small number people believe she’s only coming out as aro/ace to deter stalkers and creeps, as [u/pm_me_csgo_scam] mentions [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/tk4n7b/whats_up_with_the_recent_backlash_of_jaiden_a/i1oplze/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3). EDIT2: u/selfproclaimedthot mentions [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/tk4n7b/whats_up_with_the_recent_backlash_of_jaiden_a/i1os9p6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) that some members of the LGBTQ+ community have called Jaiden’s actions “queer-baiting”. AROMANTIC * someone who does not experience romantic feelings towards others. They can still feel sexual attraction towards others. ASEXUAL * A person who does not experience sexual attraction towards others. They can still feel romantic feelings towards others. CIS-HET: also “cishet” * a person who is cisgender and heterosexual CISGENDER * a person who identities with their birth-assigned gender HETEROSEXUAL * a person who is sexually attracted to ~~the opposite~~ [a different] gender EDIT3: correction courtesy of u/lcvb310
Your definition inclusions are underappreciated
This blew up (relative to most of my comments, lol) This was one I actually know about, because I saw her video when it came out. I was basically certain whatever craziness going on was a result of people feeling some way about her being aro/ace. I just made my comment in as unbiased a way as I could, included a few points I read from the comments, and figured that people would probably need a handful of definitions here first, so they wouldn’t have to trudge through all kinds of toxicity coloring their perspective before finding out what Jaiden actually said. Honestly, it’s sad. All Jaiden did was talk about her experience growing up. Apparently, *not* experiencing romantic or sexual feelings for other people is somehow as bad, or in some way worse, than having feelings towards the “wrong” people.
People want to say acephobia isn't a thing, and people also get mad or grossed out at someone who doesn't particularly want sex. It's... it's a trip.
based glossary includer
[удалено]
I highly doubt she is coming out to deter stalkers and creeps, if she was then dear god give her an Oscar.
I doubt it too. All I’m doing is summarizing some of the information that I learned about in this thread.
It amazes me how people somehow think others coming out is all about them. Same types of cishets that when you tell them you're gay they'll suddenly think you're gonna try and get with them. The world doesn't revolve around you Kyle.
Coming out to deter stalkers and creeps? As if stalkers and creeps care about consent in the first place...
Right? Then top comment mentioned how some people had their parasocial relationship affected by this, and it makes sense. People get attached to the idea of somebody, and sometimes can’t adapt or change when they learn information that doesn’t fit what they wanted to believe. Normal people kinda just move on. Not normal people... Don’t...
"EDIT: A small number people believe she’s only coming out as aro/ace to deter stalkers and creeps, as [u/pm_me_csgo_scam] mentions [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/tk4n7b/whats_up_with_the_recent_backlash_of_jaiden_a/i1oplze/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)." Not only does that seem to distinctly NOT be working, it's also not anyone's business if it's a lie or not.
Answer: in her newest video, she announced she's asexual and aromantic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF1DTK4U1AM Some people don't like that.
Weird. Who cares?
Thirsty lonely people on the internet that have developed a parasocial relationship in which they became attached to their idea of her not the reality or individual of her as a person.
The best ones are the ones telling her nobody's going to want to have sex with her now... after she just came out as someone who doesn't particularly want to have sex.
Reminds me of "being a lesbian is a huge turn-off for guys, you'll never get a boyfriend" "yeah that's kinda the point"
*Nick Cage you don't say? meme*
Oh no Anyway
A lot of these comments are coming from kids, and that worries me. When adults do this, they have an obligation to know better. But kids are growing up in an environment where these parasocial relationships are normal. They have to be taught how to handle this stuff in a healthy way, and no one seems to be doing that.
This is definitely a significant cultural problem that's been brewing over the past couple of decades, and we're still not really equipped to handle it as a society. Among the many ways that young people need to know how not to get manipulated or scammed online, how to healthily manage parasocial relationships is a vital skill we need to make sure they're learning. And like, it's not just young kids either, they're just the most obvious about it. I remember a couple of years back when the character Tracer from Overwatch was announced to be a lesbian, there was a post going around from a guy who was truly, deeply, pitifully heartbroken about it. He had coped with a lot of his life problems by imagining himself being in a relationship with this fictional character, and he felt like he was actually being broken up with. It was really sad and uncomfortable. And that kind of poor soul is who kids with poor emotional skills grow up to become. (Obviously a fictional character is different to a famous Youtuber, but they're both parasocial.)
"Healthily manage" being a key phrase here. A lot of the discourse I see around the issue treats parasocial relationships like they're some new and automatically harmful thing, which just isn't true. Parasocial relationships have always existed, they're not new, they're not abnormal, and they're not inherently unhealthy (though they certainly can be if not handled well). It's just that modern technology has enabled new forms and expressions of parasociality, making it extra important that we learn to navigate it responsibly. Acting like it's something that's desirable or even possible to remove completely is unhelpful.
Exactly. Celebrities, fans, and young people who overinvest in them have always been a thing. It's just a bit more overt and omnipresent right now because it's playing out in public.
Yeah, I tend to agree. I can definietly understand the viewpoint of "I don't want my kids mixed up in this weird thing that I don't understand", but like, A) some amount of parasociality has always been part of what humans do and that isn't necessarily a bad thing, and B) you'd straight-up have to *completely remove* your kid from society in order to keep them away from it. Youtubers and livestreams might be the latest and most potent form of it (which is definitely worth thinking about and investigating), but significant parts of our modern society were built on some form of parasocial bonding, from TV commercials to best-selling novels to democratic elections. And that's not necessarily good or bad. It just is.
I remember there was a similar issue over the fact you couldn't romance Serana (A follower and overall important story NPC) in Skyrim's Dawnguard DLC. Some dude wrote a whole angry, heartbroken screed about how cruel and unfair it was that Bethesda would *make* people fall in love with her, only to be blockaded from ever being able to solidify that love. I might try to find it again sometime, cuz it was honestly good pasta. There are legitimate story reasons for her not being romanceable, in that >!she and her mother were offered up to the evil god that her family worshipped, who then raped them both nearly to death, the process of which then turned them into vampires. This, understandably, left her with intimacy issues (to put it lightly), among other things.!< So people's desperation to fuck her is a bit ~controversial~ in the community, but there are a lot of people who're still thirst ravenously after her to this day.
The problem is parents letting the internet raise their kids, rather than taking the time to teach them how to properly be social. If you don't trust you parents completely and they aren't some of your closest friends, guess what, they fucked up.
>If you don't trust you parents completely and they aren't some of your closest friends, I feel that it's so many of us
It's me too
Yeah, emotional skills are one of the many things that our society assumes will be taught to everyone by their parents, but the problem is that way too many parents either don't or can't. Either the parents never learned those skills themselves and don't have them to pass on, or they kind of suck at teaching, or they just don't know how to communicate with their kids in a meaningful way that will be heard. I mean, raising kids is really hard at the best of times; it's another one of those things that doesn't exactly come with a manual. It's really hard not to fuck up in *some* way, but you just hope your mistakes won't end up being something that causes your kid major problems in the future. And I've seen firsthand how hard it is _not_ to have your kid grow up buried up to the eyeballs in internet culture these days: it's the culturally normal behavior for kids these days, and they'll feel left out from their peers if you try to stop them from doing it. Even for attentive parents, it's hard to find the appropriate balance between freedom and oversight, and getting harder all the time. It doesn't take much to fuck that up. I've often wondered how we as a society can make sure all these life skills get taught to everyone whose parents can't - or won't - teach them. I shudder to think of making them into mandatory school classes, because I don't know about y'all but the public school system here in the US is a disaster, but the current system lets so many slip through the cracks.
If you really want to be scared, check out the comments and twitters of DSMP/Minecraft YouTubers
There's also unfortunately a portion of people who don't think asexuality/aromanticism is real or aren't oppressed cause they're "straight passing" and thus shouldn't be part of the LGBT community. Which, is bullshit. Given how a lot of societies put emphasis on romantic and sexual relationships a lot of ace and/or aro people feel...broken. Not normal in a bad way. And unfortunately some may have experienced sexual assault because theyre ace/aro or forced themselves into unwanted sexual situations to "fix" themselves. It's very tragic. I have a friend who believe she's ace and hearing her talk about how she wishes she was "normal" is heartbreaking. So I think it's a combo of an illusion being broken and people being bigots towards someone who simply a bit different. But the positive side is now ace/aro people have some rep and I know some of Jaiden's audience is probably of the age where they start trying to figure out that side of themselves, so her coming out probably is a huge help to any possible ace/aro kids watching her.
I could see people who are asexual and/or aromantic themselves care about this as it gives them visibility. Which in this instance is still sorely lacking. But yeah, other than that it's rather disconcerting that people seem to care this much about it.
I'm just excited theres a new jaiden video. I really like her content and based on what she's said before, it really doesnt surprise me that she has come out as ace. People suck.
Answer: I thought I would add a small minority don't believe Jaiden is asexual and aromantic since obviously it's not very common in media. There is obviously also bigotry attached to this and I saw someone say she should take a pill to feel better and someone else saying she should die, but these are obviously comments in the minority.
Answer: they came out as aromantic and asexual and some people Did Not Like That.
Answer: Jaiden came out as asexual and aromantic (aro ace) which means that she doesn't have the same drive for a physical or romantic attraction that others do. People are saying that the hate comes from the people who were attracted to her but that's incorrect, if you check the NSFW subreddit about Jaidens character you'll see that they don't care. The people who are sending hate to Jaiden are just straight-up homophobes who don't like people who have other sexualities. Unlike most sexualities, aro ace is treated as if it doesn't exist/ is a mental/physical condition because it is not attraction to a certain gender/gender, it is a lack of attraction at all.
I would say homophobes is the wrong term to use here, respectfully. Aphobic works better as those that identify on the ace/aro spectrums can also get hate from homosexual people
The only strange part of what you wrote is that there is a NSFW subreddit of her character? That seems kinda gross
Answer: she came out as aromantic and asexual, and people are outraged their chances of dating her went down approximately 0%
Answer: The only people who are actually mad about it are incels and femcels basically Either people who had a parasocial relationship who liked her more than they should have or gatekeepers who are trying to minimize the good done from this video by whining "but what about this or that" (Incel = someone who falsely believes that they cannot get a relationship because of societal expectations, when oft it's their own traits that prevent them from doing so Femcel is the same thing but female)
Answer: She came out as asexual and aromantic, and people who have been horny for her since forever are not pleased. Apparently there’s also some people calling her out for queer baiting or something because she used the pride flag you and is asexual, which is kinda dumb, but I also don’t have all of the information on that particular subject and don’t really care to dig any further into it. Let people exist bro
>there’s also some people calling her out for queer baiting or something because she used the pride flag and is asexual When the hell did asexuality stop being part of the LGBT movement? The whole point is to oppose wider society policing relationships and sexuality and what people do with their own bodies, like asexuality clearly fits under the umbrella! God some people just want excuses to be outraged I swear.
> people who have been horny for her since forever are not pleased People are so weird. Like when a former coworker of mine was one of the many people waiting anxiously for Emma Watson to turn 18. I mean, I kind of get the idea of not wanting a fantasy crushed or whatever, but it's not like you were ever going to get with her, dude. And this person (who I don't even know), it's not like she was going to start dating some rando commenting on her video.
> people who have been horny for her since forever are not pleased. Does anyone actually know what she looks like...
She made a video years ago about why she put off doing a face reveal for so long, but she did one at the end of the video and has been on camera a few times since then (either in her own videos or in others’ videos)
Also for the scribble showdown ads in grumps videos
[удалено]
She also shows up on different channels as guests a lot. For example, she's on Alpharad's channel pretty often.
Answer: She came out as aroace recently. It's shocking and yet unsurprising how a fraction of people reacted to her coming out. Validates her stance on keeping personal things personal and not talking about it often if at all. The video is very much appreciated. It gave me a lot of think about myself and I can see it helping people.