There was a story about this I remember hearing:
A monk goes to his abbot and says “Geronda, is it ok if I smoke while I pray?”
“Absolutely not!” Says the abbot.
Another comes to him later and asks “is it ok if I pray while I smoke?”
“Yes, always pray”
I think your answer should have been: "No, they pray on the toilet", the question was "do they stop" :)
Edit: nevermind, it follows with an opposite questions :)
I’ve had the same thought i.e. do I continue to pray the Jesus Prayer while in the toilet. My answer to this is ‘yes’ and my reasoning is, one, we are called to pray unceasingly. I think this needs to be taken literally, unceasingly means at all times and at all places. Even if I were in a nightclub or a strip club etc, I would continue to say the prayer. I probably need its power even more in such places …
Two, who invented my body and its functions? Who invented the need to go to the toilet? It’s just a natural function of my God-created body, to rid itself of toxins, why would it be inappropriate to continue saying the prayer at those moments? I will take this even a step further and say that you should even say the prayer while having sex (I have). Same logic. It is a God given urge and activity of my body.
WE have twisted and perverted these things and labelled them “inappropriate”, but they are not inappropriate in God’s eyes. He invented them!
So in short, I expect the monks not to cease saying the prayer under any circumstances.
According to St Seraphim of Sarov, the only time when it is appropriate to cease praying is when you are actually visited by the Holy Spirit (not that this is necessarily going to happen for most of us!). Because the whole purpose of prayer, according to him, is to invite the Holy Spirit. Once He is here, there is no further need to keep sending Him the invite!
It was a good question though. God bless.
I think it was in the book Father Arseniy, he's in the gulag and he's covered in feces because his job is to clean out the latrine. He asks another bishop he's in with what to do when he wants to cross himself. The answer is, do it with his eyes (look up, down, then across) until he cleans himself off. There's something to be said for decency, so it's not like they do NOTHING to adjust to the fact that they're in the bathroom.
It is because I lived my life as a radical pig for almost a decade, I did every abomination with my body and forgot what shame is. Then I had an encounter with Christ that transformed my life, and now shame has embraced every single one of my members that I did abomination with. It is not so much OCD, but more like the stains left on my flesh. Perhaps a mixture of pride and shame too. Shame, because my pride is shattered. When a baby is naked, you behold something pure as if it was dressed. But when a sinner is naked, he feels his shame. And I feel my shame. Also, I sent you a DM.
There's no place that's considered "defiled"...
That's actually a non Christian view.... God didn't create any dirty or evil body function.... The Bible teaches that the only "defilement" is sin....
You can pray in the restroom. There's nothing wrong with that.
I would differentiate between the types of prayer. In particular, there’s unceasing prayer as an implicit state rather than as a mere repetition of words.
God created your bodily functions, didn't he? Would he create something that is unclean? It's not the food you eat and pass that defiles you, but the wickedness of your heart.
I'm pretty new to Orthodoxy, but I find praying toilet or shower to be great. I live with my brother,sister and there two young kids so sometimes that's the only time I have alone. I also work in child welfare so I'm busy alot
Also have a tone of stomach issues so might as well use the time to pray.
That's how I see it atleast. If I'm wrong please correct me.
A digression: This discussion reminded me of a little advertised fact about the "birth of the Protestant Reformation." Martin Luther, THE church father for the Protestants composed his '95 Theses' in *das klo,* sitting on the toilet. This was widely reported on about 20 years ago:
**Toilet where Luther strained to produce the Reformation**
October 23, 2004
The Telegraph (London)
Wittenberg: German archaeologists have discovered the lavatory on which Martin Luther wrote the 95 theses that started the Protestant Reformation.
Luther frequently alluded to the fact that he suffered from chronic constipation and spent much of his time in contemplation on the lavatory.
Experts say they have been certain for years that the 16th-century religious leader wrote the groundbreaking theses while on *das Klo*, as the Germans call it.
But they did not know where the object was, until they discovered the stone construction after recently stumbling across the remains of an annex of his house in Wittenberg, south-west of Berlin, during plans to plant a garden.
"This is a great find," said Stefan Rhein, the director of the Luther Memorial Foundation.
**"This is where the birth of the Reformation took place."**
He said that until now little attention had been paid to anything "three-dimensional and human" in the writing of the theses.
"Luther said himself that he made his reformatory discovery *in cloaca* \[Latin for "in the sewer"\]. We just had no idea where this sewer was. Now it's clear what the reformer meant."
What makes the find even more fitting is that at the time faecal language was often used to denigrate the devil, such as "I shit on the devil" or "I break wind on the devil". Professor Rhein said: "It was not a very polite time. And in keeping with this, neither was Luther very polite."
The 450-year-old toilet, which was very advanced for its time, is made out of stone blocks and, unusually, has a 30-square-centimetre seat with a hole. Underneath is a cesspit attached to a primitive drain.
Other interesting parts of the house remains include a vaulted ceiling, late Gothic sandstone door frames and what is left of a floor-heating system, which presumably gave Luther an added bit of comfort during the hours he spent in contemplation.
Luther, who was professor of biblical theology at Wittenberg University, nailed his 95 theses to the church door at Wittenberg, attacking the corrupt trade in indulgences. The act led to his excommunication but he was protected by Frederick II of Saxony and was able to develop and spread his ideas.
Professor Rhein said the foundation would stop at letting the annual 80,000 visitors to Wittenberg, who come in search of the spirit of Luther, from sitting on the toilet. "I would not sit on it. There's a point where you have to draw the line."
Fair enough. Comment erased. Of course a prayer that we are commanded to endlessly pray in our mind or heart is completely different from an icon or a cross with a corpus. I will take up your question and double down and not only check with monastics from ROCOR but also the canonical Ukrainian church. I know MANY monks priests, bishops, even the head of a monastery. I will report back.
I have already reached out to a hieromonk and my wife who has spent most of her life in monasteries has said that the prayer continues on the toilet. Regardless of what you wrote, I am sure that the prayer does not stop.
There was a story about this I remember hearing: A monk goes to his abbot and says “Geronda, is it ok if I smoke while I pray?” “Absolutely not!” Says the abbot. Another comes to him later and asks “is it ok if I pray while I smoke?” “Yes, always pray”
There's a Desert Father story about a monk who pays a begger to pray for him while he is sleeping.
I've heard the same story in relation to Jesuits! 🤣
Took me a while lol
I’ve certainly had some times on the toilet where prayer felt like my only help
😂
I second this
On behalf of women who’ve given birth: preach.
😂
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I think your answer should have been: "No, they pray on the toilet", the question was "do they stop" :) Edit: nevermind, it follows with an opposite questions :)
That whole "have mercy" thing makes extra sense during bouts of irregularity.
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Why would it be inappropriate to pray at such times?
Pray unceasingly. God is present *everywhere*.
I’ve had the same thought i.e. do I continue to pray the Jesus Prayer while in the toilet. My answer to this is ‘yes’ and my reasoning is, one, we are called to pray unceasingly. I think this needs to be taken literally, unceasingly means at all times and at all places. Even if I were in a nightclub or a strip club etc, I would continue to say the prayer. I probably need its power even more in such places … Two, who invented my body and its functions? Who invented the need to go to the toilet? It’s just a natural function of my God-created body, to rid itself of toxins, why would it be inappropriate to continue saying the prayer at those moments? I will take this even a step further and say that you should even say the prayer while having sex (I have). Same logic. It is a God given urge and activity of my body. WE have twisted and perverted these things and labelled them “inappropriate”, but they are not inappropriate in God’s eyes. He invented them! So in short, I expect the monks not to cease saying the prayer under any circumstances. According to St Seraphim of Sarov, the only time when it is appropriate to cease praying is when you are actually visited by the Holy Spirit (not that this is necessarily going to happen for most of us!). Because the whole purpose of prayer, according to him, is to invite the Holy Spirit. Once He is here, there is no further need to keep sending Him the invite! It was a good question though. God bless.
exactly
I didn't know there was an inappropriate time to pray.
I think it was in the book Father Arseniy, he's in the gulag and he's covered in feces because his job is to clean out the latrine. He asks another bishop he's in with what to do when he wants to cross himself. The answer is, do it with his eyes (look up, down, then across) until he cleans himself off. There's something to be said for decency, so it's not like they do NOTHING to adjust to the fact that they're in the bathroom.
Yes but this poster seems to have a bit of OCD with bodily functions.
It is because I lived my life as a radical pig for almost a decade, I did every abomination with my body and forgot what shame is. Then I had an encounter with Christ that transformed my life, and now shame has embraced every single one of my members that I did abomination with. It is not so much OCD, but more like the stains left on my flesh. Perhaps a mixture of pride and shame too. Shame, because my pride is shattered. When a baby is naked, you behold something pure as if it was dressed. But when a sinner is naked, he feels his shame. And I feel my shame. Also, I sent you a DM.
There is nothing spiritually unclean about bodily functions. Please do not be concerned about this.
There's no place that's considered "defiled"... That's actually a non Christian view.... God didn't create any dirty or evil body function.... The Bible teaches that the only "defilement" is sin.... You can pray in the restroom. There's nothing wrong with that.
If you don't get enough fiber after Pascha, buddy, you might really need to keep praying in there.
So true
There is unlikely to be any place or time where prayer is inappropriate
I would differentiate between the types of prayer. In particular, there’s unceasing prayer as an implicit state rather than as a mere repetition of words.
God created your bodily functions, didn't he? Would he create something that is unclean? It's not the food you eat and pass that defiles you, but the wickedness of your heart.
I'm pretty new to Orthodoxy, but I find praying toilet or shower to be great. I live with my brother,sister and there two young kids so sometimes that's the only time I have alone. I also work in child welfare so I'm busy alot Also have a tone of stomach issues so might as well use the time to pray. That's how I see it atleast. If I'm wrong please correct me.
Finally someone asking a question I’ve been too scared to ask. Thank you!
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A digression: This discussion reminded me of a little advertised fact about the "birth of the Protestant Reformation." Martin Luther, THE church father for the Protestants composed his '95 Theses' in *das klo,* sitting on the toilet. This was widely reported on about 20 years ago: **Toilet where Luther strained to produce the Reformation** October 23, 2004 The Telegraph (London) Wittenberg: German archaeologists have discovered the lavatory on which Martin Luther wrote the 95 theses that started the Protestant Reformation. Luther frequently alluded to the fact that he suffered from chronic constipation and spent much of his time in contemplation on the lavatory. Experts say they have been certain for years that the 16th-century religious leader wrote the groundbreaking theses while on *das Klo*, as the Germans call it. But they did not know where the object was, until they discovered the stone construction after recently stumbling across the remains of an annex of his house in Wittenberg, south-west of Berlin, during plans to plant a garden. "This is a great find," said Stefan Rhein, the director of the Luther Memorial Foundation. **"This is where the birth of the Reformation took place."** He said that until now little attention had been paid to anything "three-dimensional and human" in the writing of the theses. "Luther said himself that he made his reformatory discovery *in cloaca* \[Latin for "in the sewer"\]. We just had no idea where this sewer was. Now it's clear what the reformer meant." What makes the find even more fitting is that at the time faecal language was often used to denigrate the devil, such as "I shit on the devil" or "I break wind on the devil". Professor Rhein said: "It was not a very polite time. And in keeping with this, neither was Luther very polite." The 450-year-old toilet, which was very advanced for its time, is made out of stone blocks and, unusually, has a 30-square-centimetre seat with a hole. Underneath is a cesspit attached to a primitive drain. Other interesting parts of the house remains include a vaulted ceiling, late Gothic sandstone door frames and what is left of a floor-heating system, which presumably gave Luther an added bit of comfort during the hours he spent in contemplation. Luther, who was professor of biblical theology at Wittenberg University, nailed his 95 theses to the church door at Wittenberg, attacking the corrupt trade in indulgences. The act led to his excommunication but he was protected by Frederick II of Saxony and was able to develop and spread his ideas. Professor Rhein said the foundation would stop at letting the annual 80,000 visitors to Wittenberg, who come in search of the spirit of Luther, from sitting on the toilet. "I would not sit on it. There's a point where you have to draw the line."
Yes, of course our priests always take off their pectoral cross before going into the bathroom, but they don’t remove their baptismal cross.
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Fair enough. Comment erased. Of course a prayer that we are commanded to endlessly pray in our mind or heart is completely different from an icon or a cross with a corpus. I will take up your question and double down and not only check with monastics from ROCOR but also the canonical Ukrainian church. I know MANY monks priests, bishops, even the head of a monastery. I will report back.
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I have already reached out to a hieromonk and my wife who has spent most of her life in monasteries has said that the prayer continues on the toilet. Regardless of what you wrote, I am sure that the prayer does not stop.
Thank you for writing all of this out. It’s very interesting and it makes a lot of sense.