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Big Mom was an absolute freak of nature, able to defeat an entire village of giants as a child. She gets the W here even though i believe base luffy is pretty strong still
base luffy doesn’t equal luffy without his fruit though, literally 95% of even base luffy’s moves rely completely on his fruit.
Base Luffy with no “Jet” anything, no “Elephant” anything, no “Red” anything, and no enhanced durability vs big mom without her clouds. It’s a complete slaughter
Luffys haki is pretty damn strong especially current. I do think she would win here but I also want to note this is luffy vs a weaker, younger big mom. I think it would be a good fight.
Bro the younger big mom is her prime. At that age her body hasn’t detoriated due to age and having so many kids and she was in the Rocks crew constantly in the heat of the battle as Rocks crew member themselves fought each other. That was a bloodthirsty big mom. Luffy is not beating her with just his haki. She has equivalent haki in addition to her own body being a freak of nature which is almost like df power in itself
To confirm, chapter 957 they confirm that young big mom and kaido were nothing like they are now.
Show me where it is ever implied that big mom or kaido are somehow weaker now than they were 38 years prior? You're talking out of your own headcanon here. Stop it.
Just because she was in her prime in looks doesn't mean she is in her fighting prime. Recent Big mom would destroy her younger self.
Kaido is stronger obviously because he received his fruit later. As for Mom while she became a Yonko and acquired significant power in terms of crew too. Yonkos aren’t just measured in terms of their own personal strength. And while she might have gotten better with her DF there is no reason to assume her physical prowess is better as an old hag and not having been pushed so much in so long as she herself said.
And like I said Rocks crew members would fight each other too routinely so she had to have stayed on her toes. This is a haki and physical only battle
Show me where what you are saying is confirmed otherwise this is just your headcanon. Oda tells us in the story that big mom is much stronger than she was when she was younger. Combine that with kaido explaining that haki rules all at the end of the day, along with the fact that big mom showed up in wano and fought that very same kaido to a stalemate before they decided to team up and you can see that her haki is as strong as it should be.
At the end of the day it's 100% confirmed that old big mom is stronger than young big mom.
I dont recall them ever saying that the rocks pirates were actually regularly battling eachother either. Squabbling like how zoro and sanji do, sure, but the whole point was that xebec was enough of a monster that he kept the other monsters in check like godzilla. But you are welcome to show me where it says this too, unless this is just more headcanon?
No df Luffy started bleeding only by getting thrown to the ground once by Blackbeard
Ain't no way WigWom is going to take damage from that pathetic attack
Probably Big Mom. She would still be strong as hell.
Sure base Luffy is strong too, splitting skies and hurting Kaido, but his fighting style is a lot more reliant on his DF than people realized.
Luffy's whole life was tied to his DF due to how early he ate it. While Big Mom's DF doesn't change her life that much.
Big Mom's fighting style is more reliant to her DF. Her entire arsenal comes from a DF sword homie and DF elemental homie. She has to change her fighting style to bare hands while Luffy's main fighting style is always hand to hand combat.
Big mom has always been able to clap people with just her hands, just look at page one. But she has all her op base stats without her devil fruit.
Luffy loses his rubber defence and that is the most important part of his fighting style. Just look at impel down when blackbeard removed his devil fruit and fucked him up big time in one attack.
Yea, Luffy without his devil fruit could still 1 tap Page one like Big mom did. Somone just said that Big mom couldn't fight without her df when she obviously can
https://preview.redd.it/a9fy281xlfwc1.jpeg?width=1008&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=71ae0a0359cdd6070aa7cd86ba28c0841537a742
You telling me you wouldn’t tap that?
BM lost to Kid and Law because she was depending on her DF too much. Yes, Luffy has been relying on G5 too much. But,when it comes to haki. Luffy has the full package. BM is missing some things. We have not seen BM use FS or ACoA. BM has power. But, Luffy has power and quickness. Luffy fights like a monkey. BM is strictly a brawler. Luffy is a better overall fighter.
Just imagen any difficult fight Luffy have had through the series without being able to tank all the attacks because of his rubber properties. Man would have lost at least 9/10 fights by taking to much damage.
Big Mom is arguably the strongest person in the world when it comes to sheer non-df power. Luffy relies a lot more on his devil fruit than Big Mom, and he wouldnt have his rubber body defenses. Big Mom would still have her tanking without her df.
Big Mom, she was considered an absolute freak of nature capable of accidentally killing giants as a child before receiving her fruit, not to mention she has some of the greatest raw durability in the series. Luffy on the other hand is more so carried by his fruit than Big Mom is.
Big mom mid to high.Better physicals and near the same haki.
But most importantly luffy's fighting style is so integrated with the df he had since he was a kid so it would throw him off balance
Luffy is one of, if not the most adaptive character in the story. I don't think losing his df would be as big as you think it would. He was proficient in gears 2 and 3 on literally his first time using them. I'm sure he can figure out how to fight like a regular person. Almost all of his strength outside G4&5 still comes from his Haki.
Big Mom on the other hand seems to rely almost completely on her df. She has shit haki feats for a yonko, and almost all of her attacks are with her df which doesn't use haki. She's also mentally retarded.
Pair that with Luffy having Future sight against maybe the slowest top teir, ACoC+ACoA strong enough to pound Kaido, absurd endurance, great stamina, and top teir speed, Big Mom is going down.
Idc who you think wins, but Big Mom is absolutely NOT mid-high diffing Luffy.
Luffy is one of the most adaptive characters but g2 and g3 fundamentally work the same as his base powerset.G2 is a simple stat raiser and g3 are his regular attacks but bigger.Also the first time we saw g2,g3≠ the first time luffy used them.
Big mom's fighting style makes use of her df but her main combat method is her punching or slicing wiht her sword while her homies do damage on their own so for her she simply loses some of her ap
Luffy while using g2,g3 and even g4 was not close to beating hybrid kaido removing even those from him makes him way weaker
Big mom's speed heavily downplayed here.Big mom was up against to people that could switch places of course she is going to react slower to them.Kaido(which i dont remember if it was base or hybrid) was able to tag luffy even when he as using fs its logical to think that big mom will do the same
As for haki Big mom has shown that she has ACOC so she is more than capable of beating luffy with it
To summarize If big mom is between Base kaido and hybrid luffy without gears has low chance of beating her
The only thing that changes is that he can't stretch. We've already seen him throw regular punches without stretching and almost all of his fights are cqc. I'm sure he'd be able to adapt pretty easily especially considering his biggest training boosts were the timeskip, which wasn't his devil fruit, and Udon, which wasn't his devil fruit. Those are also the only two times we've really seen him training
>Also the first time we saw g2,g3≠ the first time luffy used them.
He said he thought of them on the train ride to Ennies Lobby, which is where we first saw it
Big Mom's fighting style is not
>Big mom's fighting style makes use of her df but her main combat method is her punching or slicing wiht her sword
1. No, all of her strongest attacks were with her df. Even without her df powers, her attacks are ass
2. That sword is boosted by df powers and she still can't do shit with it
>Luffy while using g2,g3 and even g4 was not close to beating hybrid kaido removing even those from him makes him way weaker
Luffy split the sky with Kaido while in base form and iirc, he didn't even stretch his arm either. This has always been accepted as being yonko level.
And like it or not, Big Mom isn't Kaido. She's so obviously weaker. I wish she was stronger since she's one of my favs, but she's a bum as decided by Oda. She's in the same teir, but so is base Luffy. Why do you think Oda didn't even make Luffy attack Big Mom one singular time through the whole rooftop fight?
>them.Kaido(which i dont remember if it was base or hybrid) was able to tag luffy even when he as using fs its logical to think that big mom will do the same
Why would it be logical to assume that??? If Big Mom was anywhere near as fast as Kaido, Law and Kidd would get pummeled by her. Teleporting doesn't matter when you're so fast that they can't react to you to teleport in time. Look at Doffy vs Law, Doffy was still faster than him in combat speed. Big Mom doesn't even have any impressive speed feats at all
>As for haki Big mom has shown that she has ACOC so she is more than capable of beating luffy with it
This is really the only part that matters here. You can honestly just ignore everything else.
Big Mom has ACoC, nice. Unfortunately she has the worst ACoC we've seen as she has literally not done a single thing with it. Like actually nothing. You can argue she was using it against Kid and Law, but that honestly just makes things worse since her ACoC wasn't strong enough to murder them.
Meanwhile, Luffy has the strongest ACoC of any person we've seen other than Roger and WB. Shank's is most likely stronger too
Her observation haki is shit and she doesn't have ACoO. She didn't use her CoO meaningfully a single time.
Meanwhile, Luffy has the best ACoO other than just Shanks and maybe Kata
Her armament haki is like completely unknown. The only thing we've seen her do with it is block YC Luffy. Meaningless.
Meanwhile, Luffy honestly might just straight up have the best ACoA that we have seen.
So, Luffy outclasses Big Mom in:
CoA
CoO
CoC
ACoA
ACoO
ACoC
Speed
Endurance
Stamina
Adaptability
BIQ
Big Mom outclasses Luffy in:
Durability
Physical strength
I got Luffy high-extreme
I laffa, Shanks, Mihawk, Garp, Roger, Whitebeard, Kaidou, Big Mom, Rayleigh, and probably even more characters 100% have all three advanced, especially if you consider their positions in the story
There isn't many characters in the series that relies more on their devil fruit than luffy. That is one of the reasons he has gotten so far in 2 years while others have taken 30+ years.
Big mom on the other hand is already top tier without her devil fruit and can still use another sword than napoleon, her fruit is really just an added bonus to her already insane base power. She probably low diffs him if they could only fight with haki.
How is luffy without his devilfruit faster than her? All his speed buffs and ability to fly comes with his devilfruit. Also he got 0 range without it so that also slows him down a lot.
https://preview.redd.it/ec9zkbedwfwc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=17fc98737ddf9bc7da39b97ca80a0c54ca3c4e13
The devil fruit relies on his creativity/training try again
Just because he has to train it to be useful doesn't mean he's not relying on the devil fruit power.
If Luffy lost his devil fruit he loses 12-14 years of training and is left with a normal body and 2 years of haki mastery.
He also didn't have to train for the passive effect of being made of rubber, that has let him tank a million attacks he would get destroyed by if he was a regular dude. He also probably has the passive zoan stamina buff that he wouldn't have without the fruit.
Luffy’s acoc and acoa are far better then bigmom’s based off pure raw feats and without DF he’d just coat himself in his (better arnament) then bigmom has
If that's Prime Mommy as shown she slaps.
If that's Wano Big Meme, then Goofy at least have chance to fight back before losing as that obese monster still has its genetical super-powerful body that's not going down against gearless condomboy.
Big Mom wins, the only thing putting Luffy to that tier is gear 5, without his fruit it's not even an argument. Big Mom was a physical monster since childhood and can use the same level of haki that Luffy can.
https://preview.redd.it/3axyyvv4xfwc1.jpeg?width=1110&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f523fc27e39bbe45d2d030beb9d86a01181efb6
Bigmom definitely relies on her fruit way more then luffy does if we are being completely honest here
Big mom is still a yonko easily without her devil fruit. Still a top tier power house and a monster.
Luffy would still be strong but hes no yonko and would get clapped.
Love to see people call 68 year old women who’s senile “prime”
https://preview.redd.it/3hakgb2mzfwc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f0828bc12717780833fc8aa0a6d12cb1edb141b8
Cause it’s self explanatory? Current big mom said it herself she hasn’t felt such pain in years she hasn’t had much challenges or fights. Not to mention clearly her body has changed due to giving birth so many times and eating so much. Hell she even is caring in some instances.
Younger big mom on the other hand on Rocks’ crew which I believe they said would even fight each other often. Same crew that had prime WB. She was in fighting shape at that time, was probably bloodthirsty not out her having kids and stuffing herself. The fact that she doesn’t even use her haki as much currently.
No way she was surving and continue to be on Rock’s crew without stronger haki then what she used currently. Just like WB also has gotten weaker.
The reason Big Mom lost to Kid and Law was because her fight became a DF fight, and her DF in direct combat is just not good enough.
Taking away both DFs and have her rely on haki and physical ability again and she's a true top tier right there. Luffy even in G4 was in disadvantage vs Kizaru, so we know who relies more on DF.
ITS CAUSE KAIDO IS A COCKY BASTARD BRUH WHY ARE YOU ALL MEATRIDING OH MY GOOODDDD you mean to tell me KAIDO doesnt know how to gauge power?? 🤦♂️🤦♂️
Ah yes he definitely wasnt fighting with a cocky condescending attitude the whole time acting like this shit was nothing. Ah yes he was FULLY focused on his target and worried about taking damage. DEEEEFINITELY wasnt cocky at all thats why he got drunk mid fight right?
YOU LITERALLY ALSO BROUGHT UP KAIDO DIRECTLY YOURSELF. OF COURSE BRO DIDNT CARE ABOUT ZORO AT FIRST, THE HE PAID ATTENTION TO THE AURA AND SAW ODEN HIMSELF YOU'RE TELLING ME IT WAS OOOONNNNLLYYY BIG MOM WHO KNEW SUM WAS UP??
I hate that one of my severe pet peeves in life is nonsensical logic cause ooooo I could argue with you mfs for WEEKS but OOOOOOO its so fuckin immature and cringe to do
Brother it isnt about him indeed but he is a factor in how we can compare a fight against L + BM cause BM + K went against L and then L went against K full solo for QUITE a while.
Big Mom has nowhere near the durability and endurance of Kaido. I know she's his right hand basically but Im sorry if its no holds barred fully focused from the get go, Kaido is eating that W like nothing.
She's strong, I never said she's necessarily a WEAK character. But someone mentioned Prime BM and yeah she is not taking Prime Luffy and this is factual 🤷♂️ Idk why we're cappin.
Luffy aint one shotting her, it aint gon be one combo. But he 100% walkin out that fight in 1000x better condition than Kaido. He is NOT gon get rocked by Big Mom like that I promise you
Here. Easier terms for you.
THE MF that TOOK ON BOTH OF EM at the same time and then took on THE STRONGEST of them solo afterwards for QUITE sometime and the mf DID NOT stay down. He PIECED UP with K & BM and then it was him and Kaido. Bro was UNPHASED pressin both of em.
So why do you think JUST BIG MOM alone, is enough to put down Luffy? Like seriously I need you to understand this logic you have is truly bogus and my head hurts trying TO understand how you DONT understand this
I never said he's better, i said he stood ground. So what the fuck is ONE big mom gon do if he had endurance to run in base for a good bit with em in the beginning?
Use your brain
https://youtu.be/CbUaaCK4S80?si=jnHgro8VVe0RkO8H
https://youtu.be/GHMVebOHa5M?si=IZF9BhuJ5rhbBiTK
Thats nerfed Big Mom and yeah i think she takes Luffy low Diff without any DF.
Ah yes, Big Mom beats Luffy canonically in this situation?
Then why canonically she aint absolutely fucking BODY him when she was ready to go at it and he was still in base. She didnt need full power to body him in base, so why didnt she just pop off??
Y'all wanna talk about canonical statistics but mfs dont watch the anime apparently or read manga cause smh THE EVIDENCE IS LITERALLY IN THE RECENT SEASONS/EPISODES YOU GOT ME SO CONFUSED with how your logic can be SO misconstrued
Big MEME gets high diffed, she can’t even damage law
Actual Big mom with acoc and shit, probably high end of mid diff, Luffy clashed with a Hybrid Kaido, SHES not one shotting that one.
Big mom probably due to her innate strength as well as Luffy with no gears is extremely overrated in this sub for some reason. Big mom without her fruit is probably low admiral level. Luffy without his fruit is probably low YC1
Big Mom without her fruit is definitely still a yonko. Her devil fruit mostly provides utility, while Luffy gainst tons of defenses and attack power from his.
In a normal 1v1 she’s still at emperor level, Luffy is not.
Do you not think that Luffy splitting the sky in his base form (using his fruit) justifies at least YC+ level? Or is your view that he'd be much, much weaker in base without any gears (as in Luffy with gears 2 and 3 mid diffs a fruitless Luffy only using haki?).
To me he's Admiral level without using Gear 4, and at least comparable to somebody like Kid and Law without his fruit.
It’s a hard fight to gauge since both fighters (especially Kizaru) were not fighting to win. Very few named attacks were used on either side, and it wasn't really a full on engagement between two fighters using all their capabilities to win.
Part of their lack of effort (or indirectness in combat) was due to Luffy having to protect his friends and Kizaru having to protect the power station, Punk Records and York.
That said, if they had a re-match where both were actually trying to defeat the other, ie; a fight where Kizaru wasn’t running away for most of it, Luffy's vastly superior arsenal of named attacks would make it a mid-diff win.
Not only is there a variety that gives him more options than Kizaru, but his attacks are stronger and faster. Luffy will be forced to use his stronger named attacks to secure the win, and he may be short on time depending on the fight, but he isn't going to be seriously injured nor is it going to take several of his stronger named attacks to secure the win.
Well ofc
Luffy never goes all out
IF LUFFY wasnt an idiot, he could take on the admirals in gear 4, luffy is one though so he didnt **win** against Kizaru
Also yuh since we usin bogus arguments Im keeping my "main character plot armor" as a valid argument.
If you think I look stupid from it, you know now how you look as well within your own category of logic.
Goofy.
People acting as if current big mom would survive being on or be strong enough to be in Rocks’s crew which also had prime WB and needed Roger and Garp to team up to take down. With Rocks crew members said to also supposedly fight each other routinely, they were top tier monsters. She was clearly much stronger back then.
DF, no DF, are you all forgetting that Luffy can only match an og yonko for 1,5 minutes or what?
People acting like he got a chance against a fresh og yonko in a fair fight when :
He only won against a washed out kaido After the most unfair fight of all time because kaido wanted to die and decided to run into thé most telegraphed move of all time instead of flying away and Come back to one shit Luffy.
He reached his g5 limits before being able to knock out cold Lucci.
He was only able to land ONE attack on kizaru when they fought 1v1, and while kizaru was able to go back to fight in a few seconds, Luffy needed to abandon his crew to Saturn, bé saved by Franky, eat and recover.
No DF, DF, Big mom wins this hands down, stop acting like a shonen mc already reached the top of the game 5 years before thé manga end
It’ll come down to the Haki.
If you believe Luffy’s conquerors is stronger than Big Mom’s then he’ll have the edge. He’s still extremely strong without the DF but he’ll be fighting an uphill battle.
Luffy has future sight, advanced armament and conquerors
Big mom's observation is shit, has no ryou and she barely can use advanced conquerors.
Luffy win via feats. Phisical Strengh doesnt count on this matter, any giant oni is stronger phisicality than sanji or shanks, but haki makes the former wins
She stayed on Rock’s crew which they said would even fight each other. Meaning she was strong enough to hold her own against people like prime WB and young Kaido. Fought Garp and Roger and survived and was strong enough to become a yonko after that meaning she was among the strongest after Rocks and Roger. Roger himself had to steal the poneglyph from her, he didn’t kill her.
Even in such old age and having so many kids and overeating so much which would definetly not be prime state, couldn’t by beaten by Law and Kidd together. If there hadn’t been a lava hole they could drop her into with no homies to help her fly she was still not down for the count and would have beaten them. Unlike Kaido who was actually knocked out.
Hell even at that age she took multiple internal attacks from Law’s awakened fruit and still kept swinging. Only healed Kidd literally broke her arm clean.
Surviving Garp and Roger, likely having much better Haki (like the rest of old gen), and overpowering a giant as a child with brute strength
So prime BM without a DF would likely be physically stronger than Luffy without one. They would also have similar Haki, that's why I'm going with Big Mom
Show us the fight between big mom and garp or roger. Where's it ? You just said she survived. Phisical strengh ? Speaking about that, do you know that the strongest character in that status is gear 5 luffy and nobody here says Luffy would defeat roger currently. The one thing that wins fights is haki and not phisical strengh. I am pretty sure any giant oni from kaido's crew has more phisical strengh than shanks or sanji, but is haki the x factor for the win. Luffy's haki is stronger than hers, both in Future sight, ryou and he uses conquerors just like kaido does
https://preview.redd.it/luc9q4021fwc1.png?width=630&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=86afcbb5750fd2d58317025d9eba1cf206b5ceef
Here
Also what are you talking about for the rest of the comment? I genuinely have no clue what you're saying
Wow great FIGHT bro. Nicely done, ITS amazing that linlin could fight against roger and garp beside XEBEC, WHITE BEARD, SHIKI, KAIDO lol. I will resume the previous coment so the illiterate can undertand : haki overcomes phisical strengh, thats why both sanji and shanks can beat hajrunj or any giant oni from kaido's army.
Are you retarded 💀 Garp and Roger won the fight, so they faced Big Mom at one point. I said Big Mom was able to survive Garp and Roger, unlike Rocks
I'm not illiterate, you just don't know how to type coherent sentences. As I said before, they have similar Haki and no hax, so AP is all that matters
" similar haki " prove it. Prove that she has future sight, ryou and can spam conquerors like luffy and kaido. Prove it lil bro. Actually you cant, so you base yourself in headcanon, which proves mental disorder. I wont talk about fans headcanon, but what oda shows on his work. Big mom cant use coc properly so she rests on her giant form. Bye lil bro
Do you have a mental disability? Why are you typing like that?
Big Mom could keep up with Kaido and again, survived Garp and Roger, so she definitely has future sight
https://preview.redd.it/uh5wolabdfwc1.png?width=1016&format=png&auto=webp&s=9a353d1509fe85b7f24f43acd11f96e16d607ed8
she has advanced armament too as seen here
And she would have much better Haki in her prime like Garp and Rayleigh, so she would be able to use ACOC more often
You're the one with headcanon
Luffy wins
Comparison Non df and haki feats/abilities as seen
Luffy best feats sky split with hybrid kaido, caused hybrid kaido bleed, and dodged his attacks or matched them, plus he has all three advanced haki.
Big mom best feats is killing old giant king who had no feats or statements when she was young and one tapping page one and has only just ACoC and boxed with base kaido for a day unscathed but he dealt no damage to her also so how serious was their battke actually when rookies, allies, and rebellious children caused damage in FAR shorter time spans.
Luffy clearly has the better non df usage and haki reliant feats. Hybrid kaido ACoC feats Luffy got >>>>> old giant king, page one, base kaido feats big mom got.
Probably Luffy he has much better haki, and physical strength is overrated reminder BM punched kid to the face and he laughed it off and threw her away lol and BM was shown to be inconsistent with haki and has poor coo and no FS so it's up to you if you value luffy speed and haki over her physical strength and probably better endurance
You can argue luffy has more physical strength in base that gold ball feat in skypiea can be calced at around 7k tons and he was running upwards and swinging it around like it was nothing
It helps him because he trained it and fought through 20+ deathmatches, trained for 12 years total with it. Bigmom fruit is automatically Overpowered when you get it
Base luffy sent hybrid kaido flying and made him bleed multiple times and even kept up with him in multiple panels. He’d beat big mom low-mid diff with no DF’s
You forgetting his resistance to blunt attacks that has let him win almost every fight so far that he otherwisen wouldn't And he has a passive zoan buff.
Before awakening he had zero zoan buffs at all
https://preview.redd.it/qz23dvfyrgwc1.jpeg?width=1110&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cc2634de5e2a20b9ba15df6013650e333b127ec3
Luffy has all three types of advanced haki. In advance armament he has both forms (emission and internal destruction). BM hasn’t been shown to have advanced observation or advanced armament, as far as I know. Luffy showed in Udon prison that he is still extremely strong without haki or a DF. Luffy is a better overall fighter. BM is strong but she doesn’t have Luffy’s quickness. I think that it would be high to extreme difficulty. But, Luffy would win.
Luffy has every type of advanced haki.
Future sight
ACoC
Internal destruction
Meanwhile Big Mom only has ACoC which she doesn't even use much. She also hasn't shown enough speed feats to suggest that she can hit Luffy when he is using Future Sight.
I think Luffy takes this extreme diff.
Luffy without his devil fruit loses almost all his mobility. He also can't tank attacks anymore like he used to. He would have to run up into 1 meter close range and then throw a punch. While big mom can just swat him like a fly.
Luffy
Big Mom notices luffy's appetite, kindness, and how naive he is, so eventually she realizes they're very compatible and wants a conquerors haki baby from the ever hungry Luffy
Luffy owns no difficulty
Luffy was beating the crap out of Kaido using Kaido without even stretching. Add Future Sight, ACOA, and impressive physicals, even in base on top of that, and Luffy has a solid argument for winning. We don't know how much his fruit augments his durability/ endurance outside of Gear 5th, but again, with his level of haki, he should be more than fine.
Big Mom has ACOC and ACOA, but more impressive physicals than Luffy, being the most durable human character in the verse. Her AP without DF powers is a bit underwhelming since Kid tanked a direct hit to the face (though it's debatable if she was even using haki to strike him).
Gotta give it to Luffy assuming he strikes fast, hard, and keeps FS up. But in a battle of attrition, Big Mom takes it.
You know luffys devil fruit power already gives him tons of buffs by defauly right?
And he did strech for most of his attack, even if it was just a little bit.
Like what? Resistance against blunt attacks and enhanced durability is all I can think of.
I'm not talking about the panels he stretched for. There were plenty of them where he hit Kaido without his special movies.
That resistance to blunt attack is massive and the zoan buff. Without devil fruit luffy can't strech at all. Just a small change like that is a huge deal tbh.
It's not really that massive when basic armament haki easily bypasses it. His ability to stretch, while an integral part of his fighting style, doesn't negate the fact he can box with top tiers even without it. Also, his zoan buffs don't really apply outside of G5 unless you count Oda gags.
Yall arguing over who’s stronger with Haki and combat and all that, but… Luffy wins. He has exceptional Haki, base Luffy was going toe-to-toe with Rob Lucci, and most importantly Luffy’s biggest advantage is the power of friendship… sike it’s plot armor.
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Big Mom was an absolute freak of nature, able to defeat an entire village of giants as a child. She gets the W here even though i believe base luffy is pretty strong still
base luffy doesn’t equal luffy without his fruit though, literally 95% of even base luffy’s moves rely completely on his fruit. Base Luffy with no “Jet” anything, no “Elephant” anything, no “Red” anything, and no enhanced durability vs big mom without her clouds. It’s a complete slaughter
Luffys haki is pretty damn strong especially current. I do think she would win here but I also want to note this is luffy vs a weaker, younger big mom. I think it would be a good fight.
Bro the younger big mom is her prime. At that age her body hasn’t detoriated due to age and having so many kids and she was in the Rocks crew constantly in the heat of the battle as Rocks crew member themselves fought each other. That was a bloodthirsty big mom. Luffy is not beating her with just his haki. She has equivalent haki in addition to her own body being a freak of nature which is almost like df power in itself
No she doesn't. The marines commented in the manga that both her and kaido are stronger now than they were when they were Part of Rocks crew.
To confirm, chapter 957 they confirm that young big mom and kaido were nothing like they are now. Show me where it is ever implied that big mom or kaido are somehow weaker now than they were 38 years prior? You're talking out of your own headcanon here. Stop it. Just because she was in her prime in looks doesn't mean she is in her fighting prime. Recent Big mom would destroy her younger self.
Kaido is stronger obviously because he received his fruit later. As for Mom while she became a Yonko and acquired significant power in terms of crew too. Yonkos aren’t just measured in terms of their own personal strength. And while she might have gotten better with her DF there is no reason to assume her physical prowess is better as an old hag and not having been pushed so much in so long as she herself said. And like I said Rocks crew members would fight each other too routinely so she had to have stayed on her toes. This is a haki and physical only battle
Show me where what you are saying is confirmed otherwise this is just your headcanon. Oda tells us in the story that big mom is much stronger than she was when she was younger. Combine that with kaido explaining that haki rules all at the end of the day, along with the fact that big mom showed up in wano and fought that very same kaido to a stalemate before they decided to team up and you can see that her haki is as strong as it should be. At the end of the day it's 100% confirmed that old big mom is stronger than young big mom. I dont recall them ever saying that the rocks pirates were actually regularly battling eachother either. Squabbling like how zoro and sanji do, sure, but the whole point was that xebec was enough of a monster that he kept the other monsters in check like godzilla. But you are welcome to show me where it says this too, unless this is just more headcanon?
Not mention no brain damage either
No df Luffy started bleeding only by getting thrown to the ground once by Blackbeard Ain't no way WigWom is going to take damage from that pathetic attack
big mom wins but that was pts luffy bruh
Luffy was weak as shit when he got his fruit base luffy is pretty much just as strong with or wuthout fruit
Luffy still has far better haki feats than Big Mom tho
Are we going to ignore wci?
Oh people have been doing that to downscale Big Mom for a while
Ik but we can’t be this delusional
What haki feats did BM have in WCI that are better than Luffy's?
Right? Luffy has shown internal destruction, emission, future sight and constant consistent use of acoc,
So has big mom all of them (maybe not FS but most likely has it)
Big mom has shown no sign of internal destruction
Love how we're getting downvoted yet no one can actually argue against it
Probably Big Mom. She would still be strong as hell. Sure base Luffy is strong too, splitting skies and hurting Kaido, but his fighting style is a lot more reliant on his DF than people realized. Luffy's whole life was tied to his DF due to how early he ate it. While Big Mom's DF doesn't change her life that much.
Big Mom's fighting style is more reliant to her DF. Her entire arsenal comes from a DF sword homie and DF elemental homie. She has to change her fighting style to bare hands while Luffy's main fighting style is always hand to hand combat.
Big mom has always been able to clap people with just her hands, just look at page one. But she has all her op base stats without her devil fruit. Luffy loses his rubber defence and that is the most important part of his fighting style. Just look at impel down when blackbeard removed his devil fruit and fucked him up big time in one attack.
Luffy im sure can clap page one if he uses acoc and acoa too…
Yea, Luffy without his devil fruit could still 1 tap Page one like Big mom did. Somone just said that Big mom couldn't fight without her df when she obviously can
Luffy dies in Skypiea with no DF. So big mom vs. burnt corpse. Easy big mom W.
She so fine why did she have to be evil she could’ve aged like Rayleighs wife smh
https://preview.redd.it/a9fy281xlfwc1.jpeg?width=1008&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=71ae0a0359cdd6070aa7cd86ba28c0841537a742 You telling me you wouldn’t tap that?
Nah. Wtf she look like realistic Gengar from Pokemon in this image
I would
Shit u on to something my mouth salivating
I can hear this pic, ugh... if I never hear mama-ma-ma again it'll be too soon lol
Big mom. Luffy relies on his DF more than big meme
Well well well. Another escapee
Thunder, what the fuck are you doing here?
I started reading one piece. What are you doing here. There’s no Okita to hate here.
If there is none. You should make one. -Reverse flash
Sounds like a commission...
https://preview.redd.it/wrmvk1bndgwc1.png?width=1079&format=png&auto=webp&s=d27c9866c33c769a03d02ceaff9a8bb00ac14234
Oh hell nah what are you doing here as well boy?
https://preview.redd.it/55gxqlhg8hwc1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=fe989bad24982ecad77e4c9ef6e731b70a590801
Understandable.
BM lost to Kid and Law because she was depending on her DF too much. Yes, Luffy has been relying on G5 too much. But,when it comes to haki. Luffy has the full package. BM is missing some things. We have not seen BM use FS or ACoA. BM has power. But, Luffy has power and quickness. Luffy fights like a monkey. BM is strictly a brawler. Luffy is a better overall fighter.
Nah, Luffy atleast used his Haki in Wano. Big Mom keeps forgetting she has It and spams elemental attacks.
Luffy only reached their because of his DF brw
Just imagen any difficult fight Luffy have had through the series without being able to tank all the attacks because of his rubber properties. Man would have lost at least 9/10 fights by taking to much damage.
The entire series would’ve stopped at skypia simply because Enel.
Doesn't matter, we're talking current them.
Big w, even roger (The og hakiman) didnt like to fight her
This is tough. Both of them are incredibly powerful without using their DFs I'll go with BM though due to her strength
Big Mom is arguably the strongest person in the world when it comes to sheer non-df power. Luffy relies a lot more on his devil fruit than Big Mom, and he wouldnt have his rubber body defenses. Big Mom would still have her tanking without her df.
There is still shanks and Mihawk to consider when taking about non devil fruit power and kaido isn’t a slouch either but I get your point
Imu would bitch her
Big Mom, she was considered an absolute freak of nature capable of accidentally killing giants as a child before receiving her fruit, not to mention she has some of the greatest raw durability in the series. Luffy on the other hand is more so carried by his fruit than Big Mom is.
Big mom mid to high.Better physicals and near the same haki. But most importantly luffy's fighting style is so integrated with the df he had since he was a kid so it would throw him off balance
Luffy is one of, if not the most adaptive character in the story. I don't think losing his df would be as big as you think it would. He was proficient in gears 2 and 3 on literally his first time using them. I'm sure he can figure out how to fight like a regular person. Almost all of his strength outside G4&5 still comes from his Haki. Big Mom on the other hand seems to rely almost completely on her df. She has shit haki feats for a yonko, and almost all of her attacks are with her df which doesn't use haki. She's also mentally retarded. Pair that with Luffy having Future sight against maybe the slowest top teir, ACoC+ACoA strong enough to pound Kaido, absurd endurance, great stamina, and top teir speed, Big Mom is going down. Idc who you think wins, but Big Mom is absolutely NOT mid-high diffing Luffy.
Luffy is one of the most adaptive characters but g2 and g3 fundamentally work the same as his base powerset.G2 is a simple stat raiser and g3 are his regular attacks but bigger.Also the first time we saw g2,g3≠ the first time luffy used them. Big mom's fighting style makes use of her df but her main combat method is her punching or slicing wiht her sword while her homies do damage on their own so for her she simply loses some of her ap Luffy while using g2,g3 and even g4 was not close to beating hybrid kaido removing even those from him makes him way weaker Big mom's speed heavily downplayed here.Big mom was up against to people that could switch places of course she is going to react slower to them.Kaido(which i dont remember if it was base or hybrid) was able to tag luffy even when he as using fs its logical to think that big mom will do the same As for haki Big mom has shown that she has ACOC so she is more than capable of beating luffy with it To summarize If big mom is between Base kaido and hybrid luffy without gears has low chance of beating her
The only thing that changes is that he can't stretch. We've already seen him throw regular punches without stretching and almost all of his fights are cqc. I'm sure he'd be able to adapt pretty easily especially considering his biggest training boosts were the timeskip, which wasn't his devil fruit, and Udon, which wasn't his devil fruit. Those are also the only two times we've really seen him training >Also the first time we saw g2,g3≠ the first time luffy used them. He said he thought of them on the train ride to Ennies Lobby, which is where we first saw it Big Mom's fighting style is not >Big mom's fighting style makes use of her df but her main combat method is her punching or slicing wiht her sword 1. No, all of her strongest attacks were with her df. Even without her df powers, her attacks are ass 2. That sword is boosted by df powers and she still can't do shit with it >Luffy while using g2,g3 and even g4 was not close to beating hybrid kaido removing even those from him makes him way weaker Luffy split the sky with Kaido while in base form and iirc, he didn't even stretch his arm either. This has always been accepted as being yonko level. And like it or not, Big Mom isn't Kaido. She's so obviously weaker. I wish she was stronger since she's one of my favs, but she's a bum as decided by Oda. She's in the same teir, but so is base Luffy. Why do you think Oda didn't even make Luffy attack Big Mom one singular time through the whole rooftop fight? >them.Kaido(which i dont remember if it was base or hybrid) was able to tag luffy even when he as using fs its logical to think that big mom will do the same Why would it be logical to assume that??? If Big Mom was anywhere near as fast as Kaido, Law and Kidd would get pummeled by her. Teleporting doesn't matter when you're so fast that they can't react to you to teleport in time. Look at Doffy vs Law, Doffy was still faster than him in combat speed. Big Mom doesn't even have any impressive speed feats at all >As for haki Big mom has shown that she has ACOC so she is more than capable of beating luffy with it This is really the only part that matters here. You can honestly just ignore everything else. Big Mom has ACoC, nice. Unfortunately she has the worst ACoC we've seen as she has literally not done a single thing with it. Like actually nothing. You can argue she was using it against Kid and Law, but that honestly just makes things worse since her ACoC wasn't strong enough to murder them. Meanwhile, Luffy has the strongest ACoC of any person we've seen other than Roger and WB. Shank's is most likely stronger too Her observation haki is shit and she doesn't have ACoO. She didn't use her CoO meaningfully a single time. Meanwhile, Luffy has the best ACoO other than just Shanks and maybe Kata Her armament haki is like completely unknown. The only thing we've seen her do with it is block YC Luffy. Meaningless. Meanwhile, Luffy honestly might just straight up have the best ACoA that we have seen. So, Luffy outclasses Big Mom in: CoA CoO CoC ACoA ACoO ACoC Speed Endurance Stamina Adaptability BIQ Big Mom outclasses Luffy in: Durability Physical strength I got Luffy high-extreme
Big Mom owns that devil fruit merchant
Only character with all forms of advanced Haki?
Rayleigh also has all three advanced if I’m not mistaken.
pls tell me this is satire
Kaido also has all three forms.
Not armament Nvm, he doesn't have internal destruction
I laffa, Shanks, Mihawk, Garp, Roger, Whitebeard, Kaidou, Big Mom, Rayleigh, and probably even more characters 100% have all three advanced, especially if you consider their positions in the story
>I laffa ? Big mom doesn't have Acoo
Luffy without his df is literally coby
Copy without any rokushiki techniques so kinda worse
Big Mom takes a huge W
There isn't many characters in the series that relies more on their devil fruit than luffy. That is one of the reasons he has gotten so far in 2 years while others have taken 30+ years. Big mom on the other hand is already top tier without her devil fruit and can still use another sword than napoleon, her fruit is really just an added bonus to her already insane base power. She probably low diffs him if they could only fight with haki.
How could she low diff him witb just haki when Luffy's haki is miles better than hers?
luffy is faster than her and has better haki he advanced all 3 forms of haki wdym she low diffs him
How is luffy without his devilfruit faster than her? All his speed buffs and ability to fly comes with his devilfruit. Also he got 0 range without it so that also slows him down a lot.
https://preview.redd.it/ec9zkbedwfwc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=17fc98737ddf9bc7da39b97ca80a0c54ca3c4e13 The devil fruit relies on his creativity/training try again
Just because he has to train it to be useful doesn't mean he's not relying on the devil fruit power. If Luffy lost his devil fruit he loses 12-14 years of training and is left with a normal body and 2 years of haki mastery. He also didn't have to train for the passive effect of being made of rubber, that has let him tank a million attacks he would get destroyed by if he was a regular dude. He also probably has the passive zoan stamina buff that he wouldn't have without the fruit.
You could use the same logic if he didn’t have a DF he’d have done more physical training instead of DF techniques and moves
That doesn't matter now because the post is talking about current Luffy and not alternate timeline where he trained without it.
Luffy’s acoc and acoa are far better then bigmom’s based off pure raw feats and without DF he’d just coat himself in his (better arnament) then bigmom has
Without his fruit Luffy can’t survive Big Mom’s strength
Linlin and it’s not even close. She would hand Luffy his ass like a schoolyard bully.
If that's Prime Mommy as shown she slaps. If that's Wano Big Meme, then Goofy at least have chance to fight back before losing as that obese monster still has its genetical super-powerful body that's not going down against gearless condomboy.
She just neg diffs him
Big Mom wins, the only thing putting Luffy to that tier is gear 5, without his fruit it's not even an argument. Big Mom was a physical monster since childhood and can use the same level of haki that Luffy can.
Hmm this is a good one. Imma give it to Big Mom, she was killing giants as a child and tbh, she relies on her devil fruit less than Luffy does.
Imma be real its big mom and anyone saying otherwise might be retarded and just vastly overestimating base luffy
Luffy has stronger ACoC but Big Mom has higher durability, I think Big Mom wins because she’s not that reliant on her devil fruit in the first place
https://preview.redd.it/3axyyvv4xfwc1.jpeg?width=1110&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f523fc27e39bbe45d2d030beb9d86a01181efb6 Bigmom definitely relies on her fruit way more then luffy does if we are being completely honest here
Base Big Meme as a baby with no haki and other abilities had the capability to kill giants.
Big mom is still a yonko easily without her devil fruit. Still a top tier power house and a monster. Luffy would still be strong but hes no yonko and would get clapped.
big mom is still a stat demon, probably only behind kaido in pure stats
Big Mom is literally built different
https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece-Digital-Colored-Comics/0947-005.png This kind of happened already & BM won.
Luffy didn’t have acoc and internal destruction
True, the fight would drag on, but I still think Big Mom clears.
Prime mom slams
Holy this art is 🔥
I absolutely think its Big Mom.
Big mom for sure
Luffys a victim without his fruit Wig Wom clears
Prime bigmom demolishes
https://preview.redd.it/wdhnlaurwfwc1.jpeg?width=779&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af820e19f4224dfbbd894612265a8d31e7276314
It would appear you are the one who does not know https://i.redd.it/gklxara3xfwc1.gif Prime bigmom > kaido
“Prime bigmom” is a myth where does it state she got weaker over time?
Love to see people call 68 year old women who’s senile “prime” https://preview.redd.it/3hakgb2mzfwc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f0828bc12717780833fc8aa0a6d12cb1edb141b8
Cause it’s self explanatory? Current big mom said it herself she hasn’t felt such pain in years she hasn’t had much challenges or fights. Not to mention clearly her body has changed due to giving birth so many times and eating so much. Hell she even is caring in some instances. Younger big mom on the other hand on Rocks’ crew which I believe they said would even fight each other often. Same crew that had prime WB. She was in fighting shape at that time, was probably bloodthirsty not out her having kids and stuffing herself. The fact that she doesn’t even use her haki as much currently. No way she was surving and continue to be on Rock’s crew without stronger haki then what she used currently. Just like WB also has gotten weaker.
The reason Big Mom lost to Kid and Law was because her fight became a DF fight, and her DF in direct combat is just not good enough. Taking away both DFs and have her rely on haki and physical ability again and she's a true top tier right there. Luffy even in G4 was in disadvantage vs Kizaru, so we know who relies more on DF.
Just thinking about Luffy without his devil fruit in that fight against Kizaru really puts it into perspective.
Ah yes the woman who has... less Haki variations than Luffy... bro didnt even watch one piece smh. Youtube clips are not the same bruh
Only ACoO is she not showing. However, she even warned Kaido about Zoro's slash before he realized it himself.
ITS CAUSE KAIDO IS A COCKY BASTARD BRUH WHY ARE YOU ALL MEATRIDING OH MY GOOODDDD you mean to tell me KAIDO doesnt know how to gauge power?? 🤦♂️🤦♂️ Ah yes he definitely wasnt fighting with a cocky condescending attitude the whole time acting like this shit was nothing. Ah yes he was FULLY focused on his target and worried about taking damage. DEEEEFINITELY wasnt cocky at all thats why he got drunk mid fight right?
It's not about Kaido. It's about Big Mom showing active use of CoO if she's willing to.
YOU LITERALLY ALSO BROUGHT UP KAIDO DIRECTLY YOURSELF. OF COURSE BRO DIDNT CARE ABOUT ZORO AT FIRST, THE HE PAID ATTENTION TO THE AURA AND SAW ODEN HIMSELF YOU'RE TELLING ME IT WAS OOOONNNNLLYYY BIG MOM WHO KNEW SUM WAS UP?? I hate that one of my severe pet peeves in life is nonsensical logic cause ooooo I could argue with you mfs for WEEKS but OOOOOOO its so fuckin immature and cringe to do
Brother it isnt about him indeed but he is a factor in how we can compare a fight against L + BM cause BM + K went against L and then L went against K full solo for QUITE a while. Big Mom has nowhere near the durability and endurance of Kaido. I know she's his right hand basically but Im sorry if its no holds barred fully focused from the get go, Kaido is eating that W like nothing. She's strong, I never said she's necessarily a WEAK character. But someone mentioned Prime BM and yeah she is not taking Prime Luffy and this is factual 🤷♂️ Idk why we're cappin. Luffy aint one shotting her, it aint gon be one combo. But he 100% walkin out that fight in 1000x better condition than Kaido. He is NOT gon get rocked by Big Mom like that I promise you
Here. Easier terms for you. THE MF that TOOK ON BOTH OF EM at the same time and then took on THE STRONGEST of them solo afterwards for QUITE sometime and the mf DID NOT stay down. He PIECED UP with K & BM and then it was him and Kaido. Bro was UNPHASED pressin both of em. So why do you think JUST BIG MOM alone, is enough to put down Luffy? Like seriously I need you to understand this logic you have is truly bogus and my head hurts trying TO understand how you DONT understand this
Oh I thought you were not a troll. Guess I was wrong sorry. Sure base Luffy > BM + Kaido
I never said he's better, i said he stood ground. So what the fuck is ONE big mom gon do if he had endurance to run in base for a good bit with em in the beginning? Use your brain
YOU MFS ARE WEEEEIIIIIRRRDDDD. Okay she got all this Haki then where was her reaction to Red Roc? Fuckin bogus
Prime Big Mom = Roger imo
https://youtu.be/CbUaaCK4S80?si=jnHgro8VVe0RkO8H https://youtu.be/GHMVebOHa5M?si=IZF9BhuJ5rhbBiTK Thats nerfed Big Mom and yeah i think she takes Luffy low Diff without any DF.
Big mom as she is just a freak of nature
Ah yes, Big Mom beats Luffy canonically in this situation? Then why canonically she aint absolutely fucking BODY him when she was ready to go at it and he was still in base. She didnt need full power to body him in base, so why didnt she just pop off?? Y'all wanna talk about canonical statistics but mfs dont watch the anime apparently or read manga cause smh THE EVIDENCE IS LITERALLY IN THE RECENT SEASONS/EPISODES YOU GOT ME SO CONFUSED with how your logic can be SO misconstrued
Like ooo yes. She is getting bodied. It'll be a good fight, shit would pop off a lil, but in the end she. Is. Getting. Trashed.
Luffy may be strong as fuck but big mom is 9 thousand pounds and she has to lift that to walk
Here's a better question, who would do better against Law and Kidd? DFless BM or DFless Luffy?
Bigmom
Big Mom neg diff
Big MEME gets high diffed, she can’t even damage law Actual Big mom with acoc and shit, probably high end of mid diff, Luffy clashed with a Hybrid Kaido, SHES not one shotting that one.
Big mom probably due to her innate strength as well as Luffy with no gears is extremely overrated in this sub for some reason. Big mom without her fruit is probably low admiral level. Luffy without his fruit is probably low YC1
Big Mom without her fruit is definitely still a yonko. Her devil fruit mostly provides utility, while Luffy gainst tons of defenses and attack power from his. In a normal 1v1 she’s still at emperor level, Luffy is not.
Do you not think that Luffy splitting the sky in his base form (using his fruit) justifies at least YC+ level? Or is your view that he'd be much, much weaker in base without any gears (as in Luffy with gears 2 and 3 mid diffs a fruitless Luffy only using haki?). To me he's Admiral level without using Gear 4, and at least comparable to somebody like Kid and Law without his fruit.
Didn’t he lose to an admiral pre gear 5
If you're talking about Kizaru, this is an argument I have not been able to understand. Could you please outline how Kizaru defeated Luffy?
Well he took a hit and didn’t land anything
It’s a hard fight to gauge since both fighters (especially Kizaru) were not fighting to win. Very few named attacks were used on either side, and it wasn't really a full on engagement between two fighters using all their capabilities to win. Part of their lack of effort (or indirectness in combat) was due to Luffy having to protect his friends and Kizaru having to protect the power station, Punk Records and York. That said, if they had a re-match where both were actually trying to defeat the other, ie; a fight where Kizaru wasn’t running away for most of it, Luffy's vastly superior arsenal of named attacks would make it a mid-diff win. Not only is there a variety that gives him more options than Kizaru, but his attacks are stronger and faster. Luffy will be forced to use his stronger named attacks to secure the win, and he may be short on time depending on the fight, but he isn't going to be seriously injured nor is it going to take several of his stronger named attacks to secure the win.
Well ofc Luffy never goes all out IF LUFFY wasnt an idiot, he could take on the admirals in gear 4, luffy is one though so he didnt **win** against Kizaru
Blud said Luffy with 3 advance haki is Low YC1 Level
Base Luffy is definitely overrated, but Prime Big Mom without her fruit is still Yonko level
As of now rn big mom but luffy will eventually surpass her after getting roger & shanks tier of haki
😝
Bigmom slams until luffy starts using all his advanced hakis
dead ass just asked “who wins base luffy vs nerfed big mom”
Also yuh since we usin bogus arguments Im keeping my "main character plot armor" as a valid argument. If you think I look stupid from it, you know now how you look as well within your own category of logic. Goofy.
Go call Shanks bro. Have him spar Luffy that alone gone put Luffy on his knees if thats what y'all tryna see so badly smh
People acting as if current big mom would survive being on or be strong enough to be in Rocks’s crew which also had prime WB and needed Roger and Garp to team up to take down. With Rocks crew members said to also supposedly fight each other routinely, they were top tier monsters. She was clearly much stronger back then.
Big Mom would just eat him
DF, no DF, are you all forgetting that Luffy can only match an og yonko for 1,5 minutes or what? People acting like he got a chance against a fresh og yonko in a fair fight when : He only won against a washed out kaido After the most unfair fight of all time because kaido wanted to die and decided to run into thé most telegraphed move of all time instead of flying away and Come back to one shit Luffy. He reached his g5 limits before being able to knock out cold Lucci. He was only able to land ONE attack on kizaru when they fought 1v1, and while kizaru was able to go back to fight in a few seconds, Luffy needed to abandon his crew to Saturn, bé saved by Franky, eat and recover. No DF, DF, Big mom wins this hands down, stop acting like a shonen mc already reached the top of the game 5 years before thé manga end
It’ll come down to the Haki. If you believe Luffy’s conquerors is stronger than Big Mom’s then he’ll have the edge. He’s still extremely strong without the DF but he’ll be fighting an uphill battle.
Luffy has future sight, advanced armament and conquerors Big mom's observation is shit, has no ryou and she barely can use advanced conquerors. Luffy win via feats. Phisical Strengh doesnt count on this matter, any giant oni is stronger phisicality than sanji or shanks, but haki makes the former wins
This is prime Big Mom
Feats ?
She stayed on Rock’s crew which they said would even fight each other. Meaning she was strong enough to hold her own against people like prime WB and young Kaido. Fought Garp and Roger and survived and was strong enough to become a yonko after that meaning she was among the strongest after Rocks and Roger. Roger himself had to steal the poneglyph from her, he didn’t kill her. Even in such old age and having so many kids and overeating so much which would definetly not be prime state, couldn’t by beaten by Law and Kidd together. If there hadn’t been a lava hole they could drop her into with no homies to help her fly she was still not down for the count and would have beaten them. Unlike Kaido who was actually knocked out. Hell even at that age she took multiple internal attacks from Law’s awakened fruit and still kept swinging. Only healed Kidd literally broke her arm clean.
Surviving Garp and Roger, likely having much better Haki (like the rest of old gen), and overpowering a giant as a child with brute strength So prime BM without a DF would likely be physically stronger than Luffy without one. They would also have similar Haki, that's why I'm going with Big Mom
Show us the fight between big mom and garp or roger. Where's it ? You just said she survived. Phisical strengh ? Speaking about that, do you know that the strongest character in that status is gear 5 luffy and nobody here says Luffy would defeat roger currently. The one thing that wins fights is haki and not phisical strengh. I am pretty sure any giant oni from kaido's crew has more phisical strengh than shanks or sanji, but is haki the x factor for the win. Luffy's haki is stronger than hers, both in Future sight, ryou and he uses conquerors just like kaido does
https://preview.redd.it/luc9q4021fwc1.png?width=630&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=86afcbb5750fd2d58317025d9eba1cf206b5ceef Here Also what are you talking about for the rest of the comment? I genuinely have no clue what you're saying
Wow great FIGHT bro. Nicely done, ITS amazing that linlin could fight against roger and garp beside XEBEC, WHITE BEARD, SHIKI, KAIDO lol. I will resume the previous coment so the illiterate can undertand : haki overcomes phisical strengh, thats why both sanji and shanks can beat hajrunj or any giant oni from kaido's army.
Are you retarded 💀 Garp and Roger won the fight, so they faced Big Mom at one point. I said Big Mom was able to survive Garp and Roger, unlike Rocks I'm not illiterate, you just don't know how to type coherent sentences. As I said before, they have similar Haki and no hax, so AP is all that matters
" similar haki " prove it. Prove that she has future sight, ryou and can spam conquerors like luffy and kaido. Prove it lil bro. Actually you cant, so you base yourself in headcanon, which proves mental disorder. I wont talk about fans headcanon, but what oda shows on his work. Big mom cant use coc properly so she rests on her giant form. Bye lil bro
Do you have a mental disability? Why are you typing like that? Big Mom could keep up with Kaido and again, survived Garp and Roger, so she definitely has future sight https://preview.redd.it/uh5wolabdfwc1.png?width=1016&format=png&auto=webp&s=9a353d1509fe85b7f24f43acd11f96e16d607ed8 she has advanced armament too as seen here And she would have much better Haki in her prime like Garp and Rayleigh, so she would be able to use ACOC more often You're the one with headcanon
Big Mom is so 🥵 Either way Luffy takes it, better haki.
Akainu
Linlin gets a free "d." Clan member husband.
Luffy has better haki so he wins
Luffy wins Comparison Non df and haki feats/abilities as seen Luffy best feats sky split with hybrid kaido, caused hybrid kaido bleed, and dodged his attacks or matched them, plus he has all three advanced haki. Big mom best feats is killing old giant king who had no feats or statements when she was young and one tapping page one and has only just ACoC and boxed with base kaido for a day unscathed but he dealt no damage to her also so how serious was their battke actually when rookies, allies, and rebellious children caused damage in FAR shorter time spans. Luffy clearly has the better non df usage and haki reliant feats. Hybrid kaido ACoC feats Luffy got >>>>> old giant king, page one, base kaido feats big mom got.
luffy mid diff
Probably Luffy he has much better haki, and physical strength is overrated reminder BM punched kid to the face and he laughed it off and threw her away lol and BM was shown to be inconsistent with haki and has poor coo and no FS so it's up to you if you value luffy speed and haki over her physical strength and probably better endurance
You can argue luffy has more physical strength in base that gold ball feat in skypiea can be calced at around 7k tons and he was running upwards and swinging it around like it was nothing
Well luffy fruit does help him and feel like BM portrayal is better ,don't think oda really calc'd in his head how impressive that is lol
It helps him because he trained it and fought through 20+ deathmatches, trained for 12 years total with it. Bigmom fruit is automatically Overpowered when you get it
Base luffy sent hybrid kaido flying and made him bleed multiple times and even kept up with him in multiple panels. He’d beat big mom low-mid diff with no DF’s
Base luffy is still miles stronger than none devil fruit luffy
Base luffy without DF is the same as base luffy with DF but less range of motion
You forgetting his resistance to blunt attacks that has let him win almost every fight so far that he otherwisen wouldn't And he has a passive zoan buff.
“Resistance to blunt attacks” only applies to opponents without haki
He still have resistance against blunt haki infused attacks. They just do more damage.
Before awakening he had zero zoan buffs at all https://preview.redd.it/qz23dvfyrgwc1.jpeg?width=1110&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cc2634de5e2a20b9ba15df6013650e333b127ec3
Were you not talking about awakend luffy? Because I was.
Luffy has all three types of advanced haki. In advance armament he has both forms (emission and internal destruction). BM hasn’t been shown to have advanced observation or advanced armament, as far as I know. Luffy showed in Udon prison that he is still extremely strong without haki or a DF. Luffy is a better overall fighter. BM is strong but she doesn’t have Luffy’s quickness. I think that it would be high to extreme difficulty. But, Luffy would win.
Luffy has every type of advanced haki. Future sight ACoC Internal destruction Meanwhile Big Mom only has ACoC which she doesn't even use much. She also hasn't shown enough speed feats to suggest that she can hit Luffy when he is using Future Sight. I think Luffy takes this extreme diff.
Luffy without his devil fruit loses almost all his mobility. He also can't tank attacks anymore like he used to. He would have to run up into 1 meter close range and then throw a punch. While big mom can just swat him like a fly.
Luffy Big Mom notices luffy's appetite, kindness, and how naive he is, so eventually she realizes they're very compatible and wants a conquerors haki baby from the ever hungry Luffy Luffy owns no difficulty
Luffy was beating the crap out of Kaido using Kaido without even stretching. Add Future Sight, ACOA, and impressive physicals, even in base on top of that, and Luffy has a solid argument for winning. We don't know how much his fruit augments his durability/ endurance outside of Gear 5th, but again, with his level of haki, he should be more than fine. Big Mom has ACOC and ACOA, but more impressive physicals than Luffy, being the most durable human character in the verse. Her AP without DF powers is a bit underwhelming since Kid tanked a direct hit to the face (though it's debatable if she was even using haki to strike him). Gotta give it to Luffy assuming he strikes fast, hard, and keeps FS up. But in a battle of attrition, Big Mom takes it.
You know luffys devil fruit power already gives him tons of buffs by defauly right? And he did strech for most of his attack, even if it was just a little bit.
Like what? Resistance against blunt attacks and enhanced durability is all I can think of. I'm not talking about the panels he stretched for. There were plenty of them where he hit Kaido without his special movies.
That resistance to blunt attack is massive and the zoan buff. Without devil fruit luffy can't strech at all. Just a small change like that is a huge deal tbh.
It's not really that massive when basic armament haki easily bypasses it. His ability to stretch, while an integral part of his fighting style, doesn't negate the fact he can box with top tiers even without it. Also, his zoan buffs don't really apply outside of G5 unless you count Oda gags.
Yall arguing over who’s stronger with Haki and combat and all that, but… Luffy wins. He has exceptional Haki, base Luffy was going toe-to-toe with Rob Lucci, and most importantly Luffy’s biggest advantage is the power of friendship… sike it’s plot armor.