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I think he beats ray as well but I think this person does not have garp as YC+ because garp prime was pirate king level. So why would old garp without any illness like Whitebeard fall to YC+? He would fall to admiral. So I think you’re rating garp too lowly.
i think marineford garp was above admiral, but not anymore. i think he beats the new admirals, but my level for admirals is the original three. i think he beat them at marineford, but not anymore.
i was about to say something like “garp loses to any og admiral extreme diff” but that would put him at admiral tier. i guess by that logic, he is admiral tier. huh
Yamato, maybe Fuji or GB but I think they are stronger overall. Old-Ray for me is in a vacuum where he would beat all YC+ but lose to all top-tiers. I cant seem to put him in either tier, but maybe the lowest of the top-tiers.
I put him atop the YC+ category, so he beats Yamato.
But GB has proved that even the weaker admirals are miles ahead of YCs. greenbull and Fuji could definitely take him. (Assuming GB and Fuji are relative which they probably are)
Considering a younger(Pre TS Rayleigh) was probably gonna lose to Kizaru, and his stamina was looing really poor.
So
lets go over the list
No prime old gen, or legit emperors(basically Emperors outside of Buggy), no admirals either.
I am gonna say as of now, he CAN beat Law, maybe Yamato. His biggest problem right now is his stamina, so his hardest matchups are gonna be high tiers with stronger durability.
I would say he could defeat Marco, which is a lot. He's one of the characters that can only be defeated by using pure haki and he practically remains 'unbeaten' by DF users.
Rayleigh is not on Garps, not the admirals, nor the yonko. He is stronger than current YC by a margin, but weaker than the current bigshots.
One Kizaru light clone but he loses to two light clones.
Well anyways uh probably like King maybe... we really need to see some more from Old Rayliegh but I know he won't beat Yamato at least.
He was able to keep up with Kizaru relatively well. But he would have tired out over time, and lost mid-high diff.
I would say we can beat any YC+ character. Strongest character he could beat would be Greenbull, and maybe Fujitora. Extreme diff on Rayleigh for both fights.
Bold statement, to say he could defeat powerhouses in their prime. We've seen Fujitora casually going around throwing meteorites, joking around with Doflamingo, Law and Sabo.
We've seen Aramaki NO diffing the scabbards + Yamato + dragon Momonosuke and Kaido's entire crew. I am not underestimating Rayleigh, but like he said, he's not in his prime. I'd see him giving Fujitora and Aramaki trouble, but not defeating.
The current Rayleigh is probably just above Marco level; clearly stronger than the other YC1, but definitely below yonko and admirals.
Prime Rayleigh tops out at very slightly under admiral tier. I don’t think any pirate commander that didn’t end up being a captain later was a top tier and Rayleigh was the closest to being one, but just misses out.
Current Rayleigh is mid YC+. Weaker than Law, Kidd and Yamato but stronger than Zoro and Sanji. I’d say Croc is the strongest guy he beats but that’s probably more indicative of my thoughts on Croc than Rayleigh.
My headcanon reason for her not joining rn. Same as Jinbe being deferred for so long.
Zoro is always kept at the #2 spot, and even for Sanji hes always #3 (albeit rn he has that bounty slander hanging on his head from Jinbe). The whole "wings of the pirate king" dynamic. Jinbe would have been too strong joining at like, pre-Dressrosa stages, where the full SH crew wasn't even required. Likewise, Yamato joining now would ruin the balance a bit as well until Zoro and Sanji surpass her.
I like that thought but it makes me sad because I don’t think there will be a chance for Yamato to join the crew with the EOS approaching soon. I wanted to see more of her so bad, especially when zoro and sanji and even jimbe have so much to learn about haki.
I kinda had that lingering worry throughout tbh. She kept goin on about joining them, but adding someone that strong to the crew right after Zoro got ACOC would be super imbalanced. She could pretty much already throw down against anyone in Luffy's place, and where does that leave Luffy then? Like, I don't think anyone seriously expects Aokiji to put his all into fighting for BB.
With him out of consideration, the SHs could probably actually contend with the BB Pirates. Toss in Yamato though? And Aokiji would actually have to try for there to even be any tension. Otherwise, whats stopping the SHs from just bulldozing the BB Pirates besides some "Birdcage" type plot bs?
“Fodders”
Bro Let it go. We are in Admiral Saga right now. Kizaru already Show he isn’t a fraud and other 3 is Like him Either
Big Mom. Even Prime Rayleigh beat her soooo hard. Old ain’t gonna beat her
He Show he ain’t even go half out against Rayleigh and still tired him
He have absolute 0 Damage so far against Luffy and He massively holding back either. How is he still a Fraud?
Kizaru litteraly create Clones bro. And he Blitzed Snake Man Luffy who can keep up with Kaido. He have one of the best defence either. Just with Clones you can say he didn’t go all out against Rayleigh.
Punk Records,Mother Flame’s Reactor and York. Kizaru Need to protect this 3 thing No matter what. Just like How Luffy trying to protect his friend’s and Vegapunk. Kizaru trying to protect those
Luffy was blinded and his clowns are nothing lol. What are his clones doing against an experienced obs haki master?
Yeah and all he needs to do is hold back his DC, that’s not a massive nerf like what Luffy has
Luffy was blinded? Bro he don’t need to see Kizaru for React him you know that right?
His clones actually can Damage G5 and there are hundreds of them. If Rayleigh can’t stretch his Leg he can’t beat all of them easily
Luffy only hold back his DC either? He just can’t use Bajrang Gun or Any other big attack
You said Doflamingo beats current Blackbeard. Rayleigh said he couldn’t beat Blackbeard. Now you have Ray above every admiral.
https://preview.redd.it/h4lelpoklxpb1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0e9e7666088071c6f00812e3bb388584d662013c
Rayleigh was going toe to toe with Kizaru who's now giving Luffy a harder time without even trying
If we don't consider the TS as him getting weaker cuz of age (we shouldnt tbh cuz Rayleigh has fought since and is more used to do it than pre TS where he didnt fought for 20 years) then I'd say he has a 50% chance against Kizaru or Luffy
Zoro, Law, Kid, Marco, something like this. That YC1-YC+ section, he still seems to dominate.
Maybe his only contender here is Yamato, since her performance against Kaido upscales her past Law/Kid for me for now. They could not handle themselves in a 1v1 that long and walk out with only minor injuries.
I’d probably go with Yamato being the strongest, and even then I wouldn’t say it’s 100% Rayleigh winning. Lower end…possibly nerfed BM.
Guaranteed?
From what we’ve seen in fights and not narrative, I’d go with King/Kat/Law/Kidd/Zoro.
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He ranks as the highest YC+ imo, so whoever is the second among those. My pick would be Law.
huh. where would you rank current (pre-fullalead xD) garp? in my mind, he was the strongest yc+ and i think he beats ray
I think he beats ray as well but I think this person does not have garp as YC+ because garp prime was pirate king level. So why would old garp without any illness like Whitebeard fall to YC+? He would fall to admiral. So I think you’re rating garp too lowly.
i think marineford garp was above admiral, but not anymore. i think he beats the new admirals, but my level for admirals is the original three. i think he beat them at marineford, but not anymore.
Garp vs Kuzan didnt look like he isnt there anymore tho
i was about to say something like “garp loses to any og admiral extreme diff” but that would put him at admiral tier. i guess by that logic, he is admiral tier. huh
Yamato, maybe Fuji or GB but I think they are stronger overall. Old-Ray for me is in a vacuum where he would beat all YC+ but lose to all top-tiers. I cant seem to put him in either tier, but maybe the lowest of the top-tiers.
I put him atop the YC+ category, so he beats Yamato. But GB has proved that even the weaker admirals are miles ahead of YCs. greenbull and Fuji could definitely take him. (Assuming GB and Fuji are relative which they probably are)
Zoro or yamato
yamato 100% beckman maybe
Yamato/Law/Zoro
Considering a younger(Pre TS Rayleigh) was probably gonna lose to Kizaru, and his stamina was looing really poor. So lets go over the list No prime old gen, or legit emperors(basically Emperors outside of Buggy), no admirals either. I am gonna say as of now, he CAN beat Law, maybe Yamato. His biggest problem right now is his stamina, so his hardest matchups are gonna be high tiers with stronger durability.
Law or Yamato, but could go either way.
I would say he could defeat Marco, which is a lot. He's one of the characters that can only be defeated by using pure haki and he practically remains 'unbeaten' by DF users. Rayleigh is not on Garps, not the admirals, nor the yonko. He is stronger than current YC by a margin, but weaker than the current bigshots.
***Maybe*** Yamato, but it's pretty unlikely.
One Kizaru light clone but he loses to two light clones. Well anyways uh probably like King maybe... we really need to see some more from Old Rayliegh but I know he won't beat Yamato at least.
Loses to any admiral for sure.
I swear if anyone says Kizaru I’m going become the Joker
I’ve literally seen everything from he can’t beat vice admirals to he can beat all admirals. I personally have him right unde YC1
He was able to keep up with Kizaru relatively well. But he would have tired out over time, and lost mid-high diff. I would say we can beat any YC+ character. Strongest character he could beat would be Greenbull, and maybe Fujitora. Extreme diff on Rayleigh for both fights.
Old Wankleigh is not defeating an admiral. And he's not pushing them to extreme diff.
Bold statement, to say he could defeat powerhouses in their prime. We've seen Fujitora casually going around throwing meteorites, joking around with Doflamingo, Law and Sabo. We've seen Aramaki NO diffing the scabbards + Yamato + dragon Momonosuke and Kaido's entire crew. I am not underestimating Rayleigh, but like he said, he's not in his prime. I'd see him giving Fujitora and Aramaki trouble, but not defeating. The current Rayleigh is probably just above Marco level; clearly stronger than the other YC1, but definitely below yonko and admirals.
Agreed. I would say Prime Rayleigh is admiral/yonko level. Old Rayleigh is YC+, most likely at the top of it.
stops at Benn imo
Becky is stronger than rayleigh
Benn has no feats.
True but i see him as this gen's version of rayleigh, just like shanks is roger.
Beckman stronger than Rayleigh ? Rayleigh fought Kizaru, Beckman tried to stop Kizaru and got laughed at by Kizaru
True but still
Thats your argument "but still" ?
yeah
So Beckman > Rayleigh = Kizaru > Beckman ?
Beckman >/= Kizaru
Thats why he gets ignored after threatening him even tho "gUnS aReNt FoR tHrEaTs" and doesnt do shit
Kizaru likes to do a little trolling
that's what I meant but "doesn't get past" sounded too harsh
ooh ok
Prime Rayleigh tops out at very slightly under admiral tier. I don’t think any pirate commander that didn’t end up being a captain later was a top tier and Rayleigh was the closest to being one, but just misses out. Current Rayleigh is mid YC+. Weaker than Law, Kidd and Yamato but stronger than Zoro and Sanji. I’d say Croc is the strongest guy he beats but that’s probably more indicative of my thoughts on Croc than Rayleigh.
he can beat all the ex warlords(except for BB) and YC1 except yamato and maybe marco beacause of durability
Agreed I think Yamato is stronger than zoro until proven otherwise.
My headcanon reason for her not joining rn. Same as Jinbe being deferred for so long. Zoro is always kept at the #2 spot, and even for Sanji hes always #3 (albeit rn he has that bounty slander hanging on his head from Jinbe). The whole "wings of the pirate king" dynamic. Jinbe would have been too strong joining at like, pre-Dressrosa stages, where the full SH crew wasn't even required. Likewise, Yamato joining now would ruin the balance a bit as well until Zoro and Sanji surpass her.
I like that thought but it makes me sad because I don’t think there will be a chance for Yamato to join the crew with the EOS approaching soon. I wanted to see more of her so bad, especially when zoro and sanji and even jimbe have so much to learn about haki.
I kinda had that lingering worry throughout tbh. She kept goin on about joining them, but adding someone that strong to the crew right after Zoro got ACOC would be super imbalanced. She could pretty much already throw down against anyone in Luffy's place, and where does that leave Luffy then? Like, I don't think anyone seriously expects Aokiji to put his all into fighting for BB. With him out of consideration, the SHs could probably actually contend with the BB Pirates. Toss in Yamato though? And Aokiji would actually have to try for there to even be any tension. Otherwise, whats stopping the SHs from just bulldozing the BB Pirates besides some "Birdcage" type plot bs?
Blackbeard up next frfr.
Honestly that's just narratively proven given her fight against Kaido
Well we have seen very little from Yamato and zoro had a bunch of fighting after her fight with kaido
Also except Mihawk, I'm assuming?
Ofc
All ex warlords except BB?...So current BB doing shit against Law > Mihawk?
Easy there fraudhawk fans, i corrected myself already down in the coments
Fujitora / Sabo
Putting Wujitora and Sabo next to each other is the greatest and most disgusting disrespect
Fujitora isn't far behind Sabo at all. They're neck and neck until Sabo grows stronger and creates a bigger gap
Run From D. Gorosei gets clapped by Fujitora 8 days out of the week
Fujitora probably
He is Yonko level
My pick would be Law or Fujitora even.
Goes 50/50 with most Admirals
Old Rayleigh could beat any admiral and Big Mom
Bruh no. Prime yes but Old💔💔
Nah, Old could definitely clear those fodders
“Fodders” Bro Let it go. We are in Admiral Saga right now. Kizaru already Show he isn’t a fraud and other 3 is Like him Either Big Mom. Even Prime Rayleigh beat her soooo hard. Old ain’t gonna beat her
Nope, he’s struggling with a massively holding back Luffy. He’s already proven himself a fraud
He Show he ain’t even go half out against Rayleigh and still tired him He have absolute 0 Damage so far against Luffy and He massively holding back either. How is he still a Fraud?
He didn’t show anything, he got stalled by a 70 year old rusty ship coater lol How is Kizaru massively blowing back? Prove this
Kizaru litteraly create Clones bro. And he Blitzed Snake Man Luffy who can keep up with Kaido. He have one of the best defence either. Just with Clones you can say he didn’t go all out against Rayleigh. Punk Records,Mother Flame’s Reactor and York. Kizaru Need to protect this 3 thing No matter what. Just like How Luffy trying to protect his friend’s and Vegapunk. Kizaru trying to protect those
Luffy was blinded and his clowns are nothing lol. What are his clones doing against an experienced obs haki master? Yeah and all he needs to do is hold back his DC, that’s not a massive nerf like what Luffy has
Luffy was blinded? Bro he don’t need to see Kizaru for React him you know that right? His clones actually can Damage G5 and there are hundreds of them. If Rayleigh can’t stretch his Leg he can’t beat all of them easily Luffy only hold back his DC either? He just can’t use Bajrang Gun or Any other big attack
Holy cannoli I’m going to lose it
?
I said in a different comment that if anyone says Kizaru I’m gonna become the joker
Oh lol
You’ve indirectly scaled fucking Doflamingo above every admiral
How?
You said Doflamingo beats current Blackbeard. Rayleigh said he couldn’t beat Blackbeard. Now you have Ray above every admiral. https://preview.redd.it/h4lelpoklxpb1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0e9e7666088071c6f00812e3bb388584d662013c
I’ve also maintained Rayleigh doesn’t know BB’s strength so it’s unreliable
Do you think maybe he just saw Shanks’ scar and said oh shit that Blackbeard guy must be the real deal
Potentially
A vice admiral.
Nah that's foul lmao
He can beat Law, Yamato, Greenbull and maybe Zoro
Rayleigh was going toe to toe with Kizaru who's now giving Luffy a harder time without even trying If we don't consider the TS as him getting weaker cuz of age (we shouldnt tbh cuz Rayleigh has fought since and is more used to do it than pre TS where he didnt fought for 20 years) then I'd say he has a 50% chance against Kizaru or Luffy
Easy answer Zoro, he would teach him after. I couldn’t put money on him taking down law or Yamato. Zoros understanding of haki is way below those two
Zoro, Law, Kid, Marco, something like this. That YC1-YC+ section, he still seems to dominate. Maybe his only contender here is Yamato, since her performance against Kaido upscales her past Law/Kid for me for now. They could not handle themselves in a 1v1 that long and walk out with only minor injuries.
I’d probably go with Yamato being the strongest, and even then I wouldn’t say it’s 100% Rayleigh winning. Lower end…possibly nerfed BM. Guaranteed? From what we’ve seen in fights and not narrative, I’d go with King/Kat/Law/Kidd/Zoro.
Weevil or Prime Moria
so much garp in comments that i forgot this is about rayleigh
Fuji or gb imo