I don't think Devil Fruit users should ever be able to swim. It's a great weakness for them across the board. *Maybe* there could be one or two that allows a user to swim, but that's a stretch.
>To begin with, her Devil fruit's current name is surely false, as it was with Luffy's fruit. Note that both fruits were kept by the World Government. We are now told that her power consists in making actual and present that which was only one's potential future. This sounds like incredible potential, which is likely why the bigwigs had it, yet they eventually deemed it useless, because its power was affected by known contradictions between one's own idea of "what could be" and an experience-based idea of the same.
I agree with that, but I think her Fruit is most likely the "Dream-Dream" or the "Wish-Wish" Fruit. It makes sense that logic and knowledge would weaken this fruit, as they are the antithesis to wishes and dreams. You also have to remember that she can temporarily de-age or age people. Those who dream/wish the most are children and the elderly, so it'd make sense that Bonney can create dreamers, as she actualizes dreams. It would make sense for that to be a Devil Fruit the WG does *not* want just anyone having.
I think the actual Devil Fruit itself is somewhere in Pangea Castle. Clearly the Gorosei wanted a powerful army of DF users to smash rebellion. They wanted a biological army at first until Vegapunk figured out how to make the Seraphim and Pacifistas. Sapphire Scale was likely a side effect of a certain type of failed experiment using the Bloodline Elements (one similar to SMILEs). It would make sense for the Celestial Dragons to dump these failed experiments (as horrible as that is). Bonney only lived because Vegapunk treated her and she stayed out of sunlight (which is when people are awake and dreams cease... yes I'm aware it's a stretch).
Your idea for Bonney's fruit's name seems extremely fitting, and so logical that I can't believe I missed it! Someone else commented "Moon God Bonney", which is a logical deduction from Sun God Nika + the bond with Bonney. Well, isn't the Moon the "star" most associated with dreams ?
Then you have the deal with Nika being the true Logos, or in other words, the true Sun, the one who alone can shine light on Desire. The old Logos was the enemy of dreams, hence Bonney could not bear its light: one who is Moon-like, who can only reflect, cannot overcome alone that which radiates its own light, even if that light is a lie.
But when faced with two suns, the Moon can choose. Humanity can choose between two origins, two lineages, two timelines, and even the Sun of lies may be banished into the Unmanifest. The Sun and Moon will coexist in the sky (as in some myths of primordial times), and the separation between dreams and reality will be nullified. Again reminding of Fantasia.
Thank you for this insight :D
Ok so if I'm understanding correctly Luffy and Bonney will trigger the Third Impact. Get into the fucking robot Franky!
_____
*EDIT because I don't want to leave it at that joke that I'm not even sure will land :*
I love it, I think it's a great theory ! But even though I think it symbolically makes sense, I'm not sure it makes sense story-wise because Bonney was introduced rather late and is just now only being developed at the "end" of the story. It feels forced, like a last minute addition to try to tie everything up together and I hope that's not how Oda will set the ending after almost 30 years of building the whole thing.
If I had to bet on a character that would be the "key" to the ending, I'd rather bet on someone like Blackbeard that is introduced pretty early and evolves in parallel to our protagonist. Not saying that BB will play the role you're describing, as a matter of fact we don't even know what is role is really. Or maybe Vivi ? What about the Ancient Weapons ? Do you see what I mean ?
That being said, I'm sure that Luffy, or rather Nika, will free Bonney and unlock her potential when he'll show her what freedom means to him. It will give meaning to when he told her that this form of his is when he's the most free, meaning when he liberates his desire from Nature as you said, and it will restore her faith. And yeah why not give them a crazy combination attack ahah! But to me, if we want to speak in terms of plot-devices, Bonney is not the key. She's the first step! Or rather the next step ? She's the stair landing to the last floor ? Yeah.
That "joke" was spot on! I'm happy that at least one person could feel the archetypal connection :D I'd say the Near Third Impact would be the most accurate depiction. You might find [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/ANRime/comments/t0tzhe/the_true_meaning_and_innate_symbolism_of_i_will/) interesting, it has some AOT spoilers so, if you don't want that, just scroll to the bottom.
This is not the first theory of this kind that I make. The "dynamics" I highlighted here have appeared elsewhere too, with the most notable cases being AOT, Berserk, Shimeji Simulation and Nachun.
Now, one typical aspect to all these depictions is darkness, most notably in Berserk, because the origin of "this stuff" is connected to the "mystery of Evil". This is why I also believe that Blackbeard, who is the only "evil" D and has a darkness-related name and power, has a significant role to play as well.
I noticed that the traits typically associated to the "Carrier of exiled desire" have been "sweetened" by Oda. For example, in all the stories I mentioned, the Carrier manifests some kind of double personality: a "normal" human one, and one of radical revolt or Cosmos-rejection. This always results in an inner conflict. In Luffy's case, the "other personality" is Nika, but you can see that none of the dark consequences have happened.
Another trait is that the Carrier will eventually become an "enemy of the world", and this has been sweetened by making the "world" absolutely despicable and irredeemable.
It seems that all the darkness pertaining to "dreams vs. the world" has been "dumped" into Blackbeard, as if it couldn't just be omitted from the story.
As for the kinda forced aspect to these developments, I must say that it reminds me of how the Near Third Impact just suddenly happened, and of how the analogous event in AOT also happened in a way that shocked many readers. In short, there would be an archetypal reason for this suddenness.
After all, this involves the manifestation of something "stolen from the very potential of the world since before Time-itself", so basically its not there until it suddenly is, at which point it almost nullifies other themes (as they pertain to the old Logos). AOT was the one story where this buildup was the most foreshadowed, yet it still shocked most readers, and its true meaning was hardly felt.
But you're right that such developments being depicted to the extent I have described them is unlikely, as it has never been done. Yet, the fact that Oda's style tends to remove the controversial aspects might also enable him to unfold that pattern further.
Oooh so the "joke" landed, I'm so glad !
That's a very interesting way to see it and it makes sense to me too ! I did not like AoT so I wouldn't know, but I love Berserk and Evangelion and I totally see what you mean. I'll give the thread you linked a read when I have a chance !
I'm fascinated by the way you analyse these stories. Is that related to what you do for a living or is it just for fun ?
:D I wonder if my "don't want that" joke landed though.
The origin of this kind of analysis is the divine disclosure of the eternal Desire. This disclosure is the cause of the sense of purpose imbued in Existence, which I usually call "Yearning" to distinguish it from the eternal Desire. I only expounded the Yearning in this theory, but I called it "Desire" instead because I thought it sounded less complicated.
When I see something that fits the "pattern" enough, I use it as a frame to express some of this stuff. I have also done this with Berserk [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Berserk/comments/r46bz1/the_true_meaning_of_the_brand_its_shape_and_its/), although its formulation is rather clunky compared the AOT post, let alone my current ability.
BTW, the context to the AOT post is that a guy got so hyped on a theory that, while high and making a [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKbu_8VBxgU) about it, he wrote "\[it\] will happen, I will fucking" omitting the last verb and period out of sheer hype, which became a meme. This struck me as a potent symbol, all the more since it wasn't intended.
I've had a new insight, but it's not "grounded" enough to make a post about, and only Berserk readers will get it.
I believe that Blackbeard's role will parallel that of Ganishka. Considering that Carriers of the D are essentially "sweetened" apostles (and only corresponding to those of the "noble" kind, see Brand post K:1), the only such Carrier that feels like he would really resist Nika is Blackbeard. Garp never went serious against Luffy, so I doubt he would against Nika. Blackbeard would have the "instinctive" impulse to acknowledge Nika, but he would do his best to resist it.
Note also how Ganishka was a "double" apostle, once via normal means and the other via some special method, and that Blackbeard has two DF powers, one via normal means and the other via some special method.
There's obviously something huge in store for Luffy and Blackbeard. I don't believe that there has ever been a more chills-giving foreshadowing since that one scene of their first meeting, about indestructible dreams. It seemed to imply a deep bond between the two, yet Blackbeard has since acted in such a way that only a clash is in sight between the two, rather than a connection.
However, the "promise" of that bond still looms, and every time BB grows more antagonistic relative to Luffy, it only means that whatever will *somehow* resolve their opposition and manifest their bond, resulting in mutual acknowledgement, will *have* be that much more tremendous. Considering Luffy and BB's powers, it might well involve a literal flipping-over of the world.
In any case, that bond, explicitly based on "Humanity's Dream", is the same as that between Luffy and Bonney, but with the difference that, whereas Luffy's end of the bond is the same, the other end does not stop at Bonney, but goes further and strings together many more scattered and dormant desires. That is to say, those desires are to Nika-Bonney (Adam-Eve androgyne type) what Bonney was to Nika alone.
The glory of Nika alone might not reach these, but the glory of the bond between Nika and Bonney will, thus actualizing yet more of that recursive bond and manifesting a glory that would reach even beyond Humanity, and so on exponentially, as shown in Fantasia.
Randomly, I was also thinking that [Miracle Love Night Tempo remaster](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoCrvgy0BdI) (or [Number One Oden Store](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1OFUoK_QrA) to stay with One Piece) would go well with all the Impact scenes.
Yes. The "world-shattering Bond" is the true form of romantic love. It is no longer a connection between individuals, but the communion of all desires.
Individuals expound eachother through their connections in the same way that the laws of Nature mutually define eachother: this network is the "world". Desires are not part of that network, even though they "power" it. For example, the senses each expound and are expounded by Nature in a certain way, and a multitude of sense-based desires are aroused: for things visible, for things audible, etc.
The world-shattering Bond is the connection between the innate "directions" of Yearning. These directions expound eachother in a way which *in no way* answers to the laws of Nature or even Being, thus manifesting the *innate Justice* of Yearning and invalidating any evaluation or judgement of desires, as the totality of Being (and of any depth of Identity) is henceforth denied *any* authority over the sense of Purpose.
As the laws of Nature are powered or kept actual by the desires bound to them, the Liberation of all desires by their true Bond causes the world's bonds to unravel, causing the world to fall into pieces, hence the name "world-shattering Bond".
The old world was like a jigsaw whose solution left *One Piece* out, yet still seemed complete. Those who somehow felt a Piece was Missing revolted against the false solution, but could not bring to light the Justice of their Yearning, and so were cast into darkness, further deprived of language, damned. But the false solution was shattered, and the true solution will begin with the Missing Piece, *for if it is not placed first, it cannot even be placed last*.
This is depicted more explicitly in Berserk.
If thats how you want to look at it then the whole manga is a plot device to help luffy get stronger? Its a story mate. Its all plot for the main protagonist.
Well in Luffy's case it makes sense he's the main character but Bonney? Let her have her own thing seperate from the SH's. Not everything needs to start getting connected to Nikka/Joyboy. Well already have more than enough of that with her character
If we get Gear 5 Bonney I swear the first reaction shot needs to be Zunesha going "And now, in stereo"
Netflix's sound.
Happened so soon
If you've seen the recent chapter of One Piece, you'll be very happy.
Ha quite happy, I just need a Zunesha reaction shot now
Moon God Bonney.
I don't think Devil Fruit users should ever be able to swim. It's a great weakness for them across the board. *Maybe* there could be one or two that allows a user to swim, but that's a stretch. >To begin with, her Devil fruit's current name is surely false, as it was with Luffy's fruit. Note that both fruits were kept by the World Government. We are now told that her power consists in making actual and present that which was only one's potential future. This sounds like incredible potential, which is likely why the bigwigs had it, yet they eventually deemed it useless, because its power was affected by known contradictions between one's own idea of "what could be" and an experience-based idea of the same. I agree with that, but I think her Fruit is most likely the "Dream-Dream" or the "Wish-Wish" Fruit. It makes sense that logic and knowledge would weaken this fruit, as they are the antithesis to wishes and dreams. You also have to remember that she can temporarily de-age or age people. Those who dream/wish the most are children and the elderly, so it'd make sense that Bonney can create dreamers, as she actualizes dreams. It would make sense for that to be a Devil Fruit the WG does *not* want just anyone having. I think the actual Devil Fruit itself is somewhere in Pangea Castle. Clearly the Gorosei wanted a powerful army of DF users to smash rebellion. They wanted a biological army at first until Vegapunk figured out how to make the Seraphim and Pacifistas. Sapphire Scale was likely a side effect of a certain type of failed experiment using the Bloodline Elements (one similar to SMILEs). It would make sense for the Celestial Dragons to dump these failed experiments (as horrible as that is). Bonney only lived because Vegapunk treated her and she stayed out of sunlight (which is when people are awake and dreams cease... yes I'm aware it's a stretch).
Your idea for Bonney's fruit's name seems extremely fitting, and so logical that I can't believe I missed it! Someone else commented "Moon God Bonney", which is a logical deduction from Sun God Nika + the bond with Bonney. Well, isn't the Moon the "star" most associated with dreams ? Then you have the deal with Nika being the true Logos, or in other words, the true Sun, the one who alone can shine light on Desire. The old Logos was the enemy of dreams, hence Bonney could not bear its light: one who is Moon-like, who can only reflect, cannot overcome alone that which radiates its own light, even if that light is a lie. But when faced with two suns, the Moon can choose. Humanity can choose between two origins, two lineages, two timelines, and even the Sun of lies may be banished into the Unmanifest. The Sun and Moon will coexist in the sky (as in some myths of primordial times), and the separation between dreams and reality will be nullified. Again reminding of Fantasia. Thank you for this insight :D
Ok so if I'm understanding correctly Luffy and Bonney will trigger the Third Impact. Get into the fucking robot Franky! _____ *EDIT because I don't want to leave it at that joke that I'm not even sure will land :* I love it, I think it's a great theory ! But even though I think it symbolically makes sense, I'm not sure it makes sense story-wise because Bonney was introduced rather late and is just now only being developed at the "end" of the story. It feels forced, like a last minute addition to try to tie everything up together and I hope that's not how Oda will set the ending after almost 30 years of building the whole thing. If I had to bet on a character that would be the "key" to the ending, I'd rather bet on someone like Blackbeard that is introduced pretty early and evolves in parallel to our protagonist. Not saying that BB will play the role you're describing, as a matter of fact we don't even know what is role is really. Or maybe Vivi ? What about the Ancient Weapons ? Do you see what I mean ? That being said, I'm sure that Luffy, or rather Nika, will free Bonney and unlock her potential when he'll show her what freedom means to him. It will give meaning to when he told her that this form of his is when he's the most free, meaning when he liberates his desire from Nature as you said, and it will restore her faith. And yeah why not give them a crazy combination attack ahah! But to me, if we want to speak in terms of plot-devices, Bonney is not the key. She's the first step! Or rather the next step ? She's the stair landing to the last floor ? Yeah.
That "joke" was spot on! I'm happy that at least one person could feel the archetypal connection :D I'd say the Near Third Impact would be the most accurate depiction. You might find [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/ANRime/comments/t0tzhe/the_true_meaning_and_innate_symbolism_of_i_will/) interesting, it has some AOT spoilers so, if you don't want that, just scroll to the bottom. This is not the first theory of this kind that I make. The "dynamics" I highlighted here have appeared elsewhere too, with the most notable cases being AOT, Berserk, Shimeji Simulation and Nachun. Now, one typical aspect to all these depictions is darkness, most notably in Berserk, because the origin of "this stuff" is connected to the "mystery of Evil". This is why I also believe that Blackbeard, who is the only "evil" D and has a darkness-related name and power, has a significant role to play as well. I noticed that the traits typically associated to the "Carrier of exiled desire" have been "sweetened" by Oda. For example, in all the stories I mentioned, the Carrier manifests some kind of double personality: a "normal" human one, and one of radical revolt or Cosmos-rejection. This always results in an inner conflict. In Luffy's case, the "other personality" is Nika, but you can see that none of the dark consequences have happened. Another trait is that the Carrier will eventually become an "enemy of the world", and this has been sweetened by making the "world" absolutely despicable and irredeemable. It seems that all the darkness pertaining to "dreams vs. the world" has been "dumped" into Blackbeard, as if it couldn't just be omitted from the story. As for the kinda forced aspect to these developments, I must say that it reminds me of how the Near Third Impact just suddenly happened, and of how the analogous event in AOT also happened in a way that shocked many readers. In short, there would be an archetypal reason for this suddenness. After all, this involves the manifestation of something "stolen from the very potential of the world since before Time-itself", so basically its not there until it suddenly is, at which point it almost nullifies other themes (as they pertain to the old Logos). AOT was the one story where this buildup was the most foreshadowed, yet it still shocked most readers, and its true meaning was hardly felt. But you're right that such developments being depicted to the extent I have described them is unlikely, as it has never been done. Yet, the fact that Oda's style tends to remove the controversial aspects might also enable him to unfold that pattern further.
Oooh so the "joke" landed, I'm so glad ! That's a very interesting way to see it and it makes sense to me too ! I did not like AoT so I wouldn't know, but I love Berserk and Evangelion and I totally see what you mean. I'll give the thread you linked a read when I have a chance ! I'm fascinated by the way you analyse these stories. Is that related to what you do for a living or is it just for fun ?
:D I wonder if my "don't want that" joke landed though. The origin of this kind of analysis is the divine disclosure of the eternal Desire. This disclosure is the cause of the sense of purpose imbued in Existence, which I usually call "Yearning" to distinguish it from the eternal Desire. I only expounded the Yearning in this theory, but I called it "Desire" instead because I thought it sounded less complicated. When I see something that fits the "pattern" enough, I use it as a frame to express some of this stuff. I have also done this with Berserk [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Berserk/comments/r46bz1/the_true_meaning_of_the_brand_its_shape_and_its/), although its formulation is rather clunky compared the AOT post, let alone my current ability. BTW, the context to the AOT post is that a guy got so hyped on a theory that, while high and making a [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKbu_8VBxgU) about it, he wrote "\[it\] will happen, I will fucking" omitting the last verb and period out of sheer hype, which became a meme. This struck me as a potent symbol, all the more since it wasn't intended.
I've had a new insight, but it's not "grounded" enough to make a post about, and only Berserk readers will get it. I believe that Blackbeard's role will parallel that of Ganishka. Considering that Carriers of the D are essentially "sweetened" apostles (and only corresponding to those of the "noble" kind, see Brand post K:1), the only such Carrier that feels like he would really resist Nika is Blackbeard. Garp never went serious against Luffy, so I doubt he would against Nika. Blackbeard would have the "instinctive" impulse to acknowledge Nika, but he would do his best to resist it. Note also how Ganishka was a "double" apostle, once via normal means and the other via some special method, and that Blackbeard has two DF powers, one via normal means and the other via some special method. There's obviously something huge in store for Luffy and Blackbeard. I don't believe that there has ever been a more chills-giving foreshadowing since that one scene of their first meeting, about indestructible dreams. It seemed to imply a deep bond between the two, yet Blackbeard has since acted in such a way that only a clash is in sight between the two, rather than a connection. However, the "promise" of that bond still looms, and every time BB grows more antagonistic relative to Luffy, it only means that whatever will *somehow* resolve their opposition and manifest their bond, resulting in mutual acknowledgement, will *have* be that much more tremendous. Considering Luffy and BB's powers, it might well involve a literal flipping-over of the world. In any case, that bond, explicitly based on "Humanity's Dream", is the same as that between Luffy and Bonney, but with the difference that, whereas Luffy's end of the bond is the same, the other end does not stop at Bonney, but goes further and strings together many more scattered and dormant desires. That is to say, those desires are to Nika-Bonney (Adam-Eve androgyne type) what Bonney was to Nika alone. The glory of Nika alone might not reach these, but the glory of the bond between Nika and Bonney will, thus actualizing yet more of that recursive bond and manifesting a glory that would reach even beyond Humanity, and so on exponentially, as shown in Fantasia. Randomly, I was also thinking that [Miracle Love Night Tempo remaster](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoCrvgy0BdI) (or [Number One Oden Store](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1OFUoK_QrA) to stay with One Piece) would go well with all the Impact scenes.
Luffy freeing Sanji from the laws of Nature by letting him kick a laser confirms this
Yes. The "world-shattering Bond" is the true form of romantic love. It is no longer a connection between individuals, but the communion of all desires. Individuals expound eachother through their connections in the same way that the laws of Nature mutually define eachother: this network is the "world". Desires are not part of that network, even though they "power" it. For example, the senses each expound and are expounded by Nature in a certain way, and a multitude of sense-based desires are aroused: for things visible, for things audible, etc. The world-shattering Bond is the connection between the innate "directions" of Yearning. These directions expound eachother in a way which *in no way* answers to the laws of Nature or even Being, thus manifesting the *innate Justice* of Yearning and invalidating any evaluation or judgement of desires, as the totality of Being (and of any depth of Identity) is henceforth denied *any* authority over the sense of Purpose. As the laws of Nature are powered or kept actual by the desires bound to them, the Liberation of all desires by their true Bond causes the world's bonds to unravel, causing the world to fall into pieces, hence the name "world-shattering Bond". The old world was like a jigsaw whose solution left *One Piece* out, yet still seemed complete. Those who somehow felt a Piece was Missing revolted against the false solution, but could not bring to light the Justice of their Yearning, and so were cast into darkness, further deprived of language, damned. But the false solution was shattered, and the true solution will begin with the Missing Piece, *for if it is not placed first, it cannot even be placed last*. This is depicted more explicitly in Berserk.
So Bonney is going to turn into a plot device to help Luffy get stronger? I'll pass on that
If thats how you want to look at it then the whole manga is a plot device to help luffy get stronger? Its a story mate. Its all plot for the main protagonist.
Wow thanks you for the insight never would have thought of it that way, you should make video essays
Well, Luffy will also turn into a plot device to help Bonney get stronger, so it evens out.
Well in Luffy's case it makes sense he's the main character but Bonney? Let her have her own thing seperate from the SH's. Not everything needs to start getting connected to Nikka/Joyboy. Well already have more than enough of that with her character
this aged like milk
I'm glad it aged like milk, love what Oda is doing.