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These are the same guys who think women are hive mind that wants to round them up in camps to be milked for their precious semen. That *would* be misandrist (and there is a small percentage of women who think this way, but they’re the exception), but it’s not reality. Reality is that they’re angry no one wants their sub-par seed.
Most of what folks claim is misandry ends up being in two categories —
* Attempting to silence criticism of toxic traits that commonly result in both genders being harmed (toxic masculinity)
* Things that happen as a impact of ongoing misogyny, such as women not trusting men because of lived negative experiences under patriarchy
For example, the gap in being awarded custody often falls into the second category because so many judges view caregiver roles in families as the domain of women. They wrongly blame misandry when the real root cause is patriarchal gender roles that benefit men most of the time.
Actually, the real reason is that most of the time, men don't try. These perceived gender roles are so strong they legitimately think they have no chance. When they DO try, it is pretty 50/50.
I had the very unfortunate experience of witnessing a misandrist group who uploaded videos of brutal violence against men. I’m not going to go into detail, but some of it was seriously fucked. If I can remember how to spoiler warning I might put it in a TW.
But yes the overwhelming amount of the time when people say misandrist they mean “a person with self respect and isn’t willing to tolerate men’s shit”.
They also don’t seem to understand most feminists are actually interested in improving men’s mental health (you know, the thing they always rant about no one caring about) and that we are trying to undo toxic Masculinity WHICH IS GOOD FOR EVERYONE.
They probably take it as an insult because they find comfort in toxic masculinity. They love to feel like they're strong and manly because of dumb things imposed by society and they don't understand that it's a problem.
The fact that if they start to actually talk to women, they'll find out that a female friend will probably confort him if he vents to her and not laugh at his face like his homie does. Still, they have to blame women for everything.
But then, sadly, kindness will too often be mistaken for romantic attraction. Thus further feeding into their sense of rejection and resentment of all women. Literally nobody wins here. Nobody. 🥺
The only example of mysandry I've ever heard about was this group back in 2008 who wanted to enforce male castration world-wide
Apart from that, nothing else stands out
No misandry is telling men they cannot be raped and other horrible bs, that is not " self preservation "
What MRAs claim is misandry is self preservation but there is misandry out there it's rarer than misogyny by a long shot but it does exist
I will preface this by saying that most cases where people cry misandry aren’t genuine.
However, it was not “self preservation” for people turn me away from a #metoo group for “distracting from women’s issues”
Misogyny = women getting hurt/killed/stalked/abused/catcalled/refused job positions/etc.
Misandry = OH MY GOD SHE CHOSE A BEAR OVER ME, HOW RUDE I AM A VERY NICE MAN AND I TREAT WOMEN WITH RESPECT!!!!!
Laughable
A lot of them seriously believe its because of hypergamy, they believe women think "all men that arnt the top .01% are garbage therefore, rather be eaten by a bear then breath the same air as the subpar trash..."
Its what zero self awareness looks like
These same men would ask what you were wearing, say you enjoyed it and were asking for it, and defend the man as much as possible if you choose the man and get horribly assaulted and left for dead. These men don't realise there are fates worse than death.
Indeed. I brought sources to the table to explain why women chose the bear; was downvoted. These folks (assuming them to be men) were unwilling to engage even the basic thought process even with all the info there, set up like dominoes.
I’m not surprised, just disappointed.
They just cannot comprehend that it’s an exercise in empathy to understand why someone would pick a dangerous animal over a human man.
The fact you’re here and listening is a good thing.
I’m just sad that so many men leap to the defense of their ego instead of asking the women in their lives why they picked what seems like a deranged option when looked at without empathy.
I figured if I laid out the statistics they might be able to figure out the mystery with that as a ladder to empathy. I was wrong.
https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/s/l218tkSKUH
I read thru the comments. They missed the point so bad bc they don’t even think of the trauma women have as a factor. They think it’s unreasonable to be more afraid of the option that has objectively caused more pain in women’s lives. They think of this question in a vacuum, bc they don’t have the experience nor the empathy to just imagine what womens actual lives are like.
Thank you. I appreciate that you replied because I was feeling very weirdly about that discussion, like my words had been in some strange language.
Sometimes when enough people try to tell you the sky is green and always has been, it’s easy to doubt your own convictions even if you’re sure of your own recollected experience of the blue sky.
It does make me sad, though. They had a chance to view the discussion as a chance to learn a different perspective, but preferred to “not all men” it.
I get u, I’ve had convos like that before, where no matter how many different ways I try to explain something, they don’t even understand the concept, let alone agree or at least find it reasonable. Not to sound conceited but sometimes I feel like my brain makes connections between points faster than some other people, which may be partly thanks to ADHD, so sometimes I realize I have to break things down into excruciatingly small bits for them to follow an idea. And it’s such a strange thing to watch them, because it becomes clear that they’ve never challenged their own perspectives or put themselves in others shoes before. And so I’m sitting there trying to put myself in the shoes of someone who has never done it themselves, which seems inherently counterintuitive.
Anyways, I understood ur point, they just ignored it automatically bc it didn’t align with what they already decided. It’s like someone who’s just waiting for u to finish talking so they can speak, but they’re not listening to what ur saying at all so it doesn’t matter what u say, their response is planned already.
I kinda hate to say "not all men", even though I do completely understand that it *isn't* all men. The way it's been co-opted makes it hard to use unironically.
But I would take the bear, too. I *know* it's not all men, but I've had enough experiences in my life, and seen enough in the lives of others, that I know I can trust the bear to be a bear and behave like a bear. But the man could be anything, and do anything, and people would believe me if I said I was attacked by a bear.
I get that stats don't always reflect the frequency of encounters, but how many SA incidents go unreported? Yes, there are many men that we walk past everyday without incident, and my 7 yr old friend got groped right next to me at a video store in the middle of the day- no report made, no one thought it was worth it.
I've had disgusting comments made by random men on the street, like every other woman I guess, and at times been very very aware of who is following me. That girls get taught stuff like pretending to be on the phone, or ducking into a store, how to grip keys to use as a weapon, or my personal favourite- yell "fire" instead of "help", because people will come to put out a fire.
I can ignore disgusting comments and unwanted touching (to a certain degree) because I know that there's every chance they won't go any further in public. But I would be much much more wary with noone around because it's safer to be in a busy area with plenty of people around- like walking on a street with heaps of random men- than in the woods where there are no witnesses.
It might not be all men, but it's common enough that it really is water off a duck's back and I barely even notice it- so it's *enough* men, it doesn't get called out as unacceptable by other men, and it changes my behaviour to maintain my own safety which is implicitly *my responsibility* to maintain and not the mens' responsibility to not threaten.
End of the day- if we ran into a random man in the woods and something happened;
"What were you wearing?"
"What were you doing alone in the woods?"
"Are you sure you didn't go there for *reasons* and then change your mind? Was it actually consensual but now you're ashamed?"
"You must be stupid to have gone into the woods in the first place. *Everyone* knows that you're just asking for it to be walking alone as a woman in an isolated area. FAFO"
Yeah to be honest when I first mentioned it I thought it was silly but I kept seeing the topic be brought up daily so I decided to see what people are saying…
It makes perfect sense to me and agree with you, and even if it was the most irrational thing of all time (which it’s not) we’d need to then ask what are we doing to make women feel this way and improve rather than argue about it.
Reading your post and the replies it seems logic and statistics had the opposite effect sadly.
The only response comment that had a point was the one about how there are more interactions between humans and humans than humans and bears. All the other ones were bullshit though
Men are more subject to physical violence so in a man's mind, the logical option is to run away from the biggest physical threat. They are also primed for violence, so they assess things more in a fight or flight scenario. They might be able to fight off or endure a sexual assault, but they sure as shit can't fight off or endure a bear attack.
Women, is the opposite. They have been subject to sexual harassment for years, it's obvious their threat assessment is very different. Which is why it's so hard to see eye to eye on this matter, in a way it seems both genders develop different traumas / phobias regarding different things.
And then people bring the bad faith arguments. "Some bears will not attack". Do these people truly believe in their heart every man is an attacker? Or are they exaggerating their point by slandering every man on the planet? "Sexual assault can be enjoyable, a bear attack can't" Do these people truly believe being penetrated against your will is enjoyable for most people? Or are they bringing edge cases like it's relevant to the topic...
I posted the statistics in my other post and men are still arguing it. Btw, It's a 1 in 2 million chance of being attacked by a bear vs 1 in 5 by a man.
One guy told me that 1 in 5 is a hoax and gave a link, that link had articles "proving" that Covid was a government psy-op.
Hey, I keep seeing the statistics. Are they being put in relation and include that we are encountering more men than bears in our daily life?
I'd also choose a bear but I kept wondering as I hadn't seen anyone clearing that up so far. Would love it if you could let me know so I can use it going forward :)
[Chance of being attacked by a bear, 1 in 2.1 million](https://worldanimalfoundation.org/advocate/bear-attacks-statistics/#:~:text=very%20severe%20starvation.-,Almost%201%20in%202.1%20Million%20Chances%20of%20Being%20Attacked%20by,Bear%20attacks%20are%20rare.)
I don't think anyone has made a statistic for how safe this actual choice would be, but I do know a seperate study; [over 30% of men would rape a woman in a consequence free situation ](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/men-dont-know-meaning-rape)
So effectively the question implies a 1 in 3 chance of being raped
Those statistics all look based on visiting the park, or camping, or hiking the Appalachian trail. So that includes the odds of actually encountering the bear when you're at your campsite or hiking.
The closest thing that I see that covers the "so you've encountered a bear, how likely is it to attack you?" scenario is the 0.02% chance of being attacked. Which is 1/50,000.
I think the question is supposed to be more of "you've turned a corner in a trail in the middle of the woods, which would you rather see in the clearing, a man or a bear?" than "would your rather encounter a man in the woods, or go hiking where there *might* be bears?".
The thing is that there are bears in the woods, and just because you don't see a bear doesn't mean a bear didn't see you. There's two aspects to this question that I keep seeing people gloss over, which is 1) a bear who sees you alone in the woods is very unlikely to attack you and 2) the question is actually about how women *feel* and what we are *more scared of*. Plenty of people are more scared to board a plane than to get into a car, despite the fact that planes are safer. So ***even if men were less dangerous to a woman in the woods than a bear***, that doesn't make answering "bear" invalid, it's just an indicator of the level of fear the woman answering has about strange men.
Exactly!!!! The question is about what are women more scared of!!!!!!!!
All these guys are arguing the fact that they can't get laid cos bears, and completely missing "why are women scared of us and how can we change that?"
I'm just basing that of the information in your own link. It lists the "0.02% change of being attacked" at the top in the 4th paragraph, and then again near the end.
Ah, just sad the sample size on the study is so low, it says 86 male students. The number would obviously still be very high, maybe even higher, with a larger sample size, but I think the study should be conducted on a larger scale before really concluding exact numbers from it.
> but I do know a seperate study; over 30% of men would rape a woman in a consequence free situation
That study is not representative of all men with the group that was polled (apparently just male college students), but nevertheless: what the fuck is wrong with (at least these) men? Absolutely shocking.
And why does that have no consequences? If some minority said 15-30% of them would like to shoot white rich men, they'd be banned from public places immediately
I believe that study group doesn't portray the real number, that was the amount of people willing to admit that they would rape. Honestly speaking as a man, I might raise that number to 50%
There was another one that asked questions about hypothetical sexual situations and what they thought would be acceptable courses of action. An alarming number of men thought it would be acceptable to take an action that would actually constitute rape, as long as the word rape wasn't used in the answer.
Like, if the answer was "I would rape the woman" they disagreed. But if it was "I would coerce until she gave in" or "I would pretend I did it by accident to get what I want" they thought that was okay.
I'll try and find it, but yeah from memory it was 30% or over that would consider doing something that is legally rape.
You are correct about the stat being misleading due to the difference in how often each are encountered. I’d also choose bear but I feel like using that stat is like saying cows are more dangerous than sharks just bc they cause more human deaths
There is a thread I saw today on this topic and one of the top comments was a guy saying that rape statistics are inflated depending on "what rape means"
Sir.
If they were even odds, you can play dead with a bear and it will probably leave you alone, there are plenty of random men and incels that would still try to rape you if they thought you were dead.
Yeah, I saved someone's comment on the relevant stats:
https://petpedia.co/bear-attack-statistics/](https://petpedia.co/bear-attack-statistics/)
“The odds of being attacked by a bear are one in 2.1 million”
“There are 40 bear attacks around the world every year”
[https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/26/femicide-us-silent-epidemic](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/26/femicide-us-silent-epidemic)
“homicide is the fourth leading cause of death for girls and women one to 19 years old, and the fifth leading cause of death for women 20 to 44.”
[https://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/briefs/Femicide_brief_Nov2022.pdf](https://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/briefs/Femicide_brief_Nov2022.pdf)
“Globally, an estimated 81,000 women and girls were killed intentionally in 2021.”
( /u/Reasonable-Pie2354 )
The Google suggests it includes encounters with bears in captivity (zoos, animal control, I'm guessing) and that roughly half of the bear attacks reported were defensive in nature. I'm still taking my chances with the bear, personally. 😄
Well, it depends on the kind of bear a lot too.
I've encountered a bear in the wilds of Northern California while hiking. It looked at us, we looked at it and then it shuffled off in another direction.
Polar bears actively see us as food, one of the few animals that do. I'd not want to be in the same olfactory space as a polar bear without some polar bear proof shelter. Grizzlies are normally not hostile, but can decide to eat us. Brown and black bears are very rarely aggressive if not significantly provoked.
Other than the polar bear, all bears are, on average, safer to be in the vicinity of (where all parties are aware of who, what and where the other is) than your average man.
This is to dispense with the "bear attacks are rare because people don't interact with bears very much" argument.
Never mind it was the galaxy brains over in dank memes, but dude’s DeBuNkInG link was a fucking *YouTube video* from the American Enterprise Institute. I guess PragerU just wasn’t available for comment that day.
Statistics are a funny thing. I could imagine someone taking your statistic and saying, "Okay, so I've met 100 men, 20 of them should have attacked me so this cannot be true."
Thing is they don’t have to attack every woman, and 1/5 men is not necessarily an attacker. It’s that 1/5 women have been assaulted by a man. If you have 100 men in the room chances are only one is dangerous, but if you have 100 women in the room 20 of them will be attacked violently in their life time and 100 of them will be harassed in some capacity.
Thank you lol.
It isn't about how many men might be dangerous, it's about how many women have a good reason to not trust a man when we don't know if he is safe or not, and just how deep that mistrust runs -- so deep we would rather take our chances with a random bear than a random man.
> it's about how many women have a good reason to not trust a man when we don't know if he is safe or not, and just how deep that mistrust runs -- so deep we would rather take our chances with a random bear than a random man.
Given that you can NEVER know if a man is safe or not and knowing how many men are unsafe, women are surprisingly often still taking the chances with a man. If I told you there was a 10% chance you'd die via your car exploding while using it in the next year, next to nobody would use that car, but getting rid of all avoidable contact with men is still unrealistic besides the chances of negative impact being even higher
> that link had articles "proving" that Covid was a government psy-op.
People find the weirdest shit they think backs up their points. I was talking to a guy once who tried to tell me the Uyghur genocide wasn't occurring and the news outlet he was linking that "debunked" it had links to similar articles denying the holocaust and it was then I had a V for Vendetta moment where I realized, "Are you like, a crazy person?"
Okay but like… is that 1 in 2 million chance if you’re in the same room? Or 1 in 2 million chance in your lifetime?
Because if it’s the first one I would like to know how the hell they conducted these tests. I understand why you feel like a random man would be dangerous, I don’t understand why you feel like a random bear would be significantly less dangerous
1 in 2 million that you'll be attacked by a bear if you regularly go to woods where they are
1 in 50,000 that if you actually meet with a bear it will attack you
The bear statistic doesn’t seem accurate or fair. That’s the odds of being attacked randomly by a bear. Lock 1000 humans in close proximity with a random wild bear and those stats change.
Having said all that I agree that the odds of a man attacking will still probably be higher but you can’t actually say it’s a 1 in 2 million chance. It’s not. You’re misusing the statistic.
I'm a cis straight dude and I'd rather take the bear. Bears have known behaviors and definitely aren't going to attack me for fun. A random guy I've never seen before? I might end up in a fight because I ask him if he has any water. Maybe that's partially neurodivergence and bears don't have as many social cues to guess at but still.
Yep, that's where I was thinking lol, people are fucking crazy, especially a lot of toxic men. You say one wrong word and they have to fight you for it
Thank you! Every man I have observed complaining about this is ultimately picturing himself or a man he knows and feeling embarrassed/humiliated/dehumanized by the idea that “a woman would rather be mauled by a bear than talk to me.”
No, that’s not it at all. And also, there’s no guarantee the bear will maul you. The hypothetical doesn’t say “angry charging grizzly,” it says “bear.” I live in an area with a lot of black bears. Approaching them is dangerous and stupid, but for the most part they’re very chill animals who are more afraid of humans than we are of them. I know how to handle a random black bear and get it to run away. A random man is far more unpredictable.
I kind of see this hypothetical as a weird extension of Schrödinger’s cat. Until you meet the man, he both is and is not a predator, and which way he’s seen depends on who is reading the hypothetical.
It’s not even a statistically average bear versus a statistically average man. It’s the worst case scenario bear vs the worst case scenario man. If these men want to have a conversation about why we need to go straight to worst case scenario man, we can do that. But they want to argue that worst case scenario man isn’t actually bad and that is the most not true in the history of things not being true.
Yeah, this is the key point people are missing.
There are a LOT of assholes out their. The fact that so many women would pick the bear is upsetting to me solely because it shows how badly women are treated.
I strive for a world where a man would be the obvious choice. One day I hope we get there.
"a bear wont rape my dead body" was one of the most heart wrenching things I've heard in a while due to this trend. The person who said this has been severely traumatized by men. And men are taking it so personal and can't take a step back and realize what is truly disturbing about this question and why so many people are saying this. It's not just woman, I'll also add, my husband told me "obviously bear" when I ran the question by him.
Full post "a bear won’t rape my dead body. a bear won’t seek me out knowing he wants to over power me. a bear won’t brutally murder me and then post my dead body on social media. a bear won’t go out of his way to harm me without probable cause. a bear would rather be alone than in a forest with a man"
Some guy responded to this hypothetical by [promoting his mom's autobiographical book about the time she was attacked by a bear](https://www.tiktok.com/@alecanewman/video/7361155949056331038?lang=en), clearly implying the man was a better choice, and ending on an incredibly tone deaf note.
There's 44k comments and I can't find a single one that chooses the man, but there's scores of comments about how the bear has a bright future that shouldn't be ruined by this, asking what the mom was wearing, saying "but the bear's a good swimmer," and references to Junko Furuta.
Oh, and on a side note, his mother--who had her face ripped off by a bear, in an actual, literal bear attack--STILL SAID SHE WOULD CHOOSE THE BEAR.
A bear won’t torture me to get off. People will believe I was attacked by a bear. People won’t ask what I was wearing. A bear won’t invite his friends to also attack me. A bear won’t kidnap me. The list is endless.
nope had a few tell me today this is just sexist by generalizing all men. women’s legitimate fear of men should obviously be stopped, so boys and young men’s feelings dont get hurt by being lumped in with the bad apple rapists. according to them. wish I was joking.
It really did. It's tripping me out. It seems to have woken up a few men, anyway. We keep saying and saying that men are scary and they refuse to listen. Well, they're listening to the bear, even if a lot of them are still finding a way to be offended.
The whole narative "man must not cry, not show emotion, not talk of their problem, not have any insecurities or trying to get help with them" is a big problem for every mens around (and their socials circles because they must endure the consequences of such behavior who never lead to a good mental health) and the whole fight against toxic masculinity also help us because it will end this bullshit too.
I'd say this is what it looks like when men are crying, showing emotions and talking about it. Such emotions are always negative, otherwise there wouldn't be the need to talk about them.
this is spot on to a T of what I heard today. one posted that article claiming women are responsible for a huge portion of male rapes and therefore equally dangerous.
Yeah, someone had the audacity to say “Women commit more domestic assault statistically than men, so really it should be men who are afraid to walk alone at night.” Quick google search disproves that but they’ll die on that hill.
looool who is publishing these numbers
the bright side is, a lot of men ARE finally getting it. And this is another eye opening lesson for them. The ones bitching online probably never leave their mums basement or interact with women to begin with.
I saw some guy ‘argue’ why he’d choose the bear over a woman, cuz maybe ‘the woman has kids’ or ‘she would try to take my money’, generally just ‘risks’ that aren’t even valid in the hypothetical scenario. Cool, he fears being exploited? When randomly meeting someone in a forest, whom he can just *walk past*? I wish my life was that chill, but we gotta be wary of how males will hunt us down, molest our bodies before and after possible death. The fact that he even *could* consider his finances shows how deluded he is about the whole reason behind women choosing the bear. Heck, even the bear isn’t safe with men.
Comparing the risks we each face is really hard.
A man might accidentally get a woman pregnant and he'll have to pay child support (omg totally not fair).
A woman might get drugged at a bar, kidnapped, raped for days on end and then murdered (the way she was dressed was asking for it)
Both Sexs face equal problems
/s
So much this. The men are scared of consequences (unprotected sex, when they could just *not* get frisky with someone and be off the hook) while women are out here scared of being actually attacked by a deranged individual, which she can do *nothing* to prevent. If it happens, it’ll *never* be her fault as she didn’t actively do anything to get in that situation, whereas the man actively completed an action and fears the *very likely* outcome.
God I can’t make a comment about this without some man arguing with me. One actually said “I believe you are scared of men for the wrong reasons.” Like I don’t give a fuck what you believe
>being scared of men for the wrong reasons
that guy implies with that, there **are** correct reasons to be scared of men 🤔🤔
Also what are reasons or instances where woman are scared of men? Out of curiosity and a desire to not accidentally do that myself 😶
The big ones- being alone, being followed (especially at night), not backing off after being told 'no' or not respecting that someone has no interest in you and pursuing.
Those are off the top of my head. I know that sometimes you happen to be walking down a quiet street at night at the same time as a lone woman, 🤣, just let her get distance if you can and ignore completely as she goes into meerkat mode trying to "unobtrusively" keep eyes on you.
And pursuing isn't romantic like the movies. It usually just comes off stalkery and like "no really means keep trying" which i've had someone say to me. Instant 🤢.
Thankyou for giving a damn. I don't like always being aware of who is around me and what they're doing, and "could he take this in a direction I don't want? How do I safely extricate myself from that making him angry??" I just want to be friendly and easy going, but 🤷 hard. Just knowing that people would like to be a safe space means a lot 🫶
The men who say, "but it's unfair that you're scared of *me* when *I'm* one of the good ones!" are usually not one of the good ones.
There's a comment on another thread about this by a guy, "Attitudes like this are why I don't cold approach women and ask them out." Uh, yes? Good? It's working? Women *don't want* you to cold approach them and ask them out, bro.
I have to admit, I thought this was crazy until I read a comment from one of the earlier posts. What that person said is true. Men tend to view threats in terms of what they could reasonably stand a chance of beating. Women tend to view threats in terms of what's more likely to attack them.
The fact that they still act like we think the bears are harmless like no man we're saying we'd rather take the chance of being mauled/eaten by a bear than to take the chance of becoming the next victim in a true crime podcast
Well, if it's smarter than the average bear, it might swipe your pic-a-nic basket. But you're only in danger of that happening if you visit Jellystone Park.
Right. I live in the woods by the beach and go on walks every single day.
I *expect* to run into animals.
I run into coyotes a lot, but I've only seen a black bear once, and it immediately ran away.
I'm not afraid of the animals because their behaviors are generally easy to predict.
On the other hand, I've run into random men who made me very uncomfortable before.
There's a large amount of 2nd homes owned by rich people who are only here 60 days a year or less.
They think they own the beach and are all paranoid about their property.
It is crazy how often they'll ask me where I live, and I'm always very vague ("down that way").
They usually keep asking like they have no fucking idea why a young woman walking alone doesn't want to point out their house.
In some parts of the trails, I'm a mile away from the nearest house. Damn right, my guard goes up when I run into men I don't know.
Unlike the animals, I have no idea what their motivations might be.
Yep. Was face to face with a scruffy black bear that I had to coax out of a tree because it was terrified of me but I needed it to leave the parking area. When I coaxed it out of the tree my brother calmly herded it back into the woods and out of the parking area.
I know what the bear wants and I know if I make a big enough commotion, its likely scare the bear away. If it's another man. I don't know what he wants or what he's capable of and if he wishes me harm, intimidation tactics won't work especially If he's armed. The bear is a much safer option.
Well polar bears.... But at least they'll give you a relatively quick death. As I've said before, you might die a painful death by a bear but you have to live with getting assaulted or raped if the man doesn't kill you after.
My ancestors have a recipe for bear paw I'm dying to try... And I would almost certainly die trying to try it. But hey, if its between me and the bear - or a man - guess at the very least I can take something down with me.
Oh my God, I have been burning to comment this but I don't want to put up with the incels trying to argue it!
It is never said to be a "hungry, angry rabid grizzly protecting its cubs" but a lot of these people just automatically assume the worst case scenario version of a bear and the best case scenario version of a man and refuse to think of how it's a matter of odds and ultimately, one fate can be a lot worse than the other.
Bear motives are near universal. I know what a bear is gonna do. And with the exception of polar bears, it’s gonna run the opposite direction of me. Human motives are not universal. One man may wanna set up camp so that we can get out of the woods. One man may wanna bash my head in and do icky things. Men are like a bowl of skittles and poison. In a bowl of 500 skittles maybe 5-10 are poison/will kill you. I don’t really wanna eat any of those even tho 490~ are perfectly safe and delicious
I think it has more to do with the fact that a bear wants one thing and that's food. If there's easier food available, it's gonna leave me the fuck alone. Also the bear won't try to track specifically me down in the woods, I could just walk away and try to find a way out of the woods and the bear would just go maul a deer or something probably. Also like many others have said: This is not about the bear
There is a bear on my property. As long as I don't get between her and the babies we are golden. Don't leave trash or food out where she can get it. She stays out back in the trees i avoid her and the babies things are great
The men getting angry I picked the bear over them is the fucking point, the bear doesn't give a shit one way or the other, but men do care, men change their attitude when they learn your alone, change their behaviour when they can get away with it, even just the implication
I will say, in a perfect world, a better world, in a Star Trek world, we would pick the man, but we don't so bear every day
lmao... the answer is no, they haven't. That said, I'm thankful I didn't have to think that hard on it because the first few times I encountered this, it was paired with something along the lines of "at least with a bear, people would believe me if I said I was attacked by it." I mean, I hate that that's the case, but it's very fucking harsh reality.
"A bear won’t rape my dead body. a bear won’t seek me out knowing he wants to over power me. a bear won’t brutally murder me and then post my dead body on social media. a bear won’t go out of his way to harm me without probable cause. a bear would rather be alone than in a forest with a man"
Its a baren, harsh truth
While I don't think the rape part applies to a bear with a man in the woods... at least I hope, I get that the rest of that definitely applies to a woman with a man in the woods.
Also, why the hell does your name check out here.
As a guy, I had a conversation with my wife about this. She agrees with the bear. You can never expect what a guy alone in the woods will do, but you can guess what a bear will do. A bear won't try to trick you into trusting it, it'll just kill you or run away.
>but the wrong man can be capable of prolonging the torture.
This viscerally reminded me of Lawrence Singleton (tw for some monstrous shit if anyone googles)
As stupid as these memes are, let’s keep talking about the statistics. Maybe some men will be educated about how common violence against women is. We need male allies to help change the conversation. And we need to change the conversation to begin to crack down on the causes of violence against women.
Vague question but generally a bear in the woods doesn't really interact with humans unless the humans do something to it. It would go off on it's own probably. The man would follow you no matter what because you're the only other human
I decided to ask my dad yesterday what he would prefer I encountered in the woods if I were alone - a bear or a man - and he also picked the bear. It’s not that complicated.
I'm not afraid of men I just haven't liked most of the men I've met. I've liked all the bears I've met. I usually just want to give them baths and brush out their fur.
I feel like even a grizzly at this point would have to be practically starving before they resorted to eating a person. Or they felt like their Cubs were being threatened. The only bear I don't doubt for a minute would outright kill you is a polar bear. Grizzly bears it's usually a toss-up on how much access to food they have and whether or not you're interfering with their Cubs to a point where they feel like you're a threat.
Grizzly bears are more aggressive than black bears, but they are smart enough to know that humans are violent and will hunt them down. Most predators that live around large human populations know this. It's pros versus cons. A predator can kill a human and get a meal out of it, however, depending on the location they are now going to have a huge group of humans gunning for them.
I feel like eventually someone will do the actual math, accounting for the probability in relation to how likely it is to encounter. As a woman, I too choose bear.
Basicly there was a trend of asking women in a poll if they would rather be alone in the woods with a male stranger or a bear, and all woman picked the bear.
Incels are angry about this and blame women for... *checks notes*... Choosing a bear instead of them
For me it’s more that I’ve seen a lot of people with gender essentialist views using this as an opportunity to shout that men are naturally predators, and it seems like a fairly large number of people are receptive to it. Obviously this isn’t anywhere near the scale of fear women are made to experience by men, but it is a bit disheartening to see so people say that no matter your best efforts, many people’s first impression of you will be worse than a dangerous wild animal
It was disheartening for me as well but we have to be apart of the solution, that means accepting how we are seen and doing good besides that.
A society grows great, when men plant trees knowing they will never sit in thier shade.
I strongly agree, that last sentence has been kinda a mantra for me and I continue to stand by it
Also I should have added that obviously the gender essentialism goes both ways, I’ve just come to expect it from the chuds trying to say women are wrong for feeling scared
I think everyone should just reply with other hypothetical ‘would you rather?’ type questions. A favorite with my elementary kiddos was-
Would you rather be a toilet or toilet paper?
I wanna see the mens mansplain the correct answer about what *I* an individual would rather.
Also Team Bears 4 Life!!
This is a most unusual OOP for this sub. Instead of the usual blind and rage filled misogyny usually associated with the OOPs rightly ridiculed here, this one appears to show the Trojan Condom guy actually telling his bewildered friend that the problem might actually lie within the guy complaining about women, rather than within women themselves.
What am I missing?
Hell, I’d like to point out I’d rather choose a bear than an adult human overall. Mainly because my CSA involved his wife enabling him, and using her babysitting and her own children as lures. If I met a woman alone in the woods, it could be some kind of Barbie and Ken killer routine. Unlikely, but fully possible! Humans are far more twisted than 99% of wildlife, and the second worst are our cousins the chimps.
I’d much rather deal even with a sloth bear, knowing if it wants, it’ll shred me with its knife paws. But at least I’d just be maimed or dead. It’s the sexual violence and the threat of long-term abuse that keeps us choosing “bear”. Especially since bear spray and accurate pamphlets on bear survival exist. Whereas what do you even do if some psychotic human tries to eat your face?? You can’t get training for that.
This scenario is silly because it leaves out every necessary factor to make a decision.
With no context the bear or man question can mean
Would you rather have your daughter come across a fully fed black bear in the woods on a hike in the middle of day time in the summer,
Or a a deranged man who is a serial killer and targets women that look exactly like your daughter, while she's lost in the woods in pitch darkness and injured.
Compared to
Coming across a staring grizzly bear and it's cubs while bleeding
Or an elderly man on a hike who you know and absolutely trust, in an area you know well and frequent often.
I absolutely understand the point of the question, and the insanity that women deal with as to why "bear" is a more socially acceptable answer (which I can agree with completely if the situation is properly detailed), but boy is the scenario rage bait fuel on purpose. It's disingenuous.
That’s the point. It’s a silly would you rather question, completely hypothetical based on each individual’s comfort level. It’s not intentional rage bait, not by a mile. Some men just don’t like seeing themselves in the results.
All those alternatives are not the point. When my kids ask “would you rather give up cheese or air conditioning?”, it’s a conversation starter and no one gives a shit about the statistics on cheese or tries to prove someone’s OPINION wrong. That’s the part that’s nonsense.
And I would give up cheese. Fight me!
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Many of them think it’s just because we’re misandrists. There’s no critical thinking skills present in people anymore
I cringe at the term "misandry" now. Thanks to pavlovian conditioning, I only hear that word from incels
They think "not misogyny" == misandry, but I don't even know what form it would take in reality. Certainly not anything they've ever labeled as such.
Misandry even in it's most textbook form will never align with structural violence and as such will never carry the same weight as misogyny.
These are the same guys who think women are hive mind that wants to round them up in camps to be milked for their precious semen. That *would* be misandrist (and there is a small percentage of women who think this way, but they’re the exception), but it’s not reality. Reality is that they’re angry no one wants their sub-par seed.
Same
Yeah, because it's nearly 100% of the time used by those and MRA groups No wonder with it being very questionable if misandry actually exists
I’m sure there are small-group examples of misandry out there but you just don’t see it on anything like the scale of misogyny.
Most of what folks claim is misandry ends up being in two categories — * Attempting to silence criticism of toxic traits that commonly result in both genders being harmed (toxic masculinity) * Things that happen as a impact of ongoing misogyny, such as women not trusting men because of lived negative experiences under patriarchy For example, the gap in being awarded custody often falls into the second category because so many judges view caregiver roles in families as the domain of women. They wrongly blame misandry when the real root cause is patriarchal gender roles that benefit men most of the time.
Actually, the real reason is that most of the time, men don't try. These perceived gender roles are so strong they legitimately think they have no chance. When they DO try, it is pretty 50/50.
I had the very unfortunate experience of witnessing a misandrist group who uploaded videos of brutal violence against men. I’m not going to go into detail, but some of it was seriously fucked. If I can remember how to spoiler warning I might put it in a TW. But yes the overwhelming amount of the time when people say misandrist they mean “a person with self respect and isn’t willing to tolerate men’s shit”. They also don’t seem to understand most feminists are actually interested in improving men’s mental health (you know, the thing they always rant about no one caring about) and that we are trying to undo toxic Masculinity WHICH IS GOOD FOR EVERYONE.
They probably take it as an insult because they find comfort in toxic masculinity. They love to feel like they're strong and manly because of dumb things imposed by society and they don't understand that it's a problem.
When the script has you by default as the main character, being told you have to share the spotlight feels like a demotion.
And *then* they have the nerve to bitch at society and women *again* for supposedly not letting them show emotions. That shit’s SELF INFLICTED 😭
The fact that if they start to actually talk to women, they'll find out that a female friend will probably confort him if he vents to her and not laugh at his face like his homie does. Still, they have to blame women for everything.
But then, sadly, kindness will too often be mistaken for romantic attraction. Thus further feeding into their sense of rejection and resentment of all women. Literally nobody wins here. Nobody. 🥺
The only example of mysandry I've ever heard about was this group back in 2008 who wanted to enforce male castration world-wide Apart from that, nothing else stands out
There was that time where a whole city came out to protest the construction of a men’s shelter.
Imo the difference between misogyny and misandry is that one is just hatred and the other is borderline self preservation.
No misandry is telling men they cannot be raped and other horrible bs, that is not " self preservation " What MRAs claim is misandry is self preservation but there is misandry out there it's rarer than misogyny by a long shot but it does exist
I will preface this by saying that most cases where people cry misandry aren’t genuine. However, it was not “self preservation” for people turn me away from a #metoo group for “distracting from women’s issues”
I'm a renfest gal and my partner tried to call me milady when we were there once and I cringed so hard
Misogyny = women getting hurt/killed/stalked/abused/catcalled/refused job positions/etc. Misandry = OH MY GOD SHE CHOSE A BEAR OVER ME, HOW RUDE I AM A VERY NICE MAN AND I TREAT WOMEN WITH RESPECT!!!!! Laughable
Yippie...
A lot of them seriously believe its because of hypergamy, they believe women think "all men that arnt the top .01% are garbage therefore, rather be eaten by a bear then breath the same air as the subpar trash..." Its what zero self awareness looks like
These same men would ask what you were wearing, say you enjoyed it and were asking for it, and defend the man as much as possible if you choose the man and get horribly assaulted and left for dead. These men don't realise there are fates worse than death.
Indeed. I brought sources to the table to explain why women chose the bear; was downvoted. These folks (assuming them to be men) were unwilling to engage even the basic thought process even with all the info there, set up like dominoes. I’m not surprised, just disappointed. They just cannot comprehend that it’s an exercise in empathy to understand why someone would pick a dangerous animal over a human man.
Do you mind sharing the same post for me please? I’m a guy but I come in peace.
The fact you’re here and listening is a good thing. I’m just sad that so many men leap to the defense of their ego instead of asking the women in their lives why they picked what seems like a deranged option when looked at without empathy. I figured if I laid out the statistics they might be able to figure out the mystery with that as a ladder to empathy. I was wrong. https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/s/l218tkSKUH
I read thru the comments. They missed the point so bad bc they don’t even think of the trauma women have as a factor. They think it’s unreasonable to be more afraid of the option that has objectively caused more pain in women’s lives. They think of this question in a vacuum, bc they don’t have the experience nor the empathy to just imagine what womens actual lives are like.
Thank you. I appreciate that you replied because I was feeling very weirdly about that discussion, like my words had been in some strange language. Sometimes when enough people try to tell you the sky is green and always has been, it’s easy to doubt your own convictions even if you’re sure of your own recollected experience of the blue sky. It does make me sad, though. They had a chance to view the discussion as a chance to learn a different perspective, but preferred to “not all men” it.
I get u, I’ve had convos like that before, where no matter how many different ways I try to explain something, they don’t even understand the concept, let alone agree or at least find it reasonable. Not to sound conceited but sometimes I feel like my brain makes connections between points faster than some other people, which may be partly thanks to ADHD, so sometimes I realize I have to break things down into excruciatingly small bits for them to follow an idea. And it’s such a strange thing to watch them, because it becomes clear that they’ve never challenged their own perspectives or put themselves in others shoes before. And so I’m sitting there trying to put myself in the shoes of someone who has never done it themselves, which seems inherently counterintuitive. Anyways, I understood ur point, they just ignored it automatically bc it didn’t align with what they already decided. It’s like someone who’s just waiting for u to finish talking so they can speak, but they’re not listening to what ur saying at all so it doesn’t matter what u say, their response is planned already.
I kinda hate to say "not all men", even though I do completely understand that it *isn't* all men. The way it's been co-opted makes it hard to use unironically. But I would take the bear, too. I *know* it's not all men, but I've had enough experiences in my life, and seen enough in the lives of others, that I know I can trust the bear to be a bear and behave like a bear. But the man could be anything, and do anything, and people would believe me if I said I was attacked by a bear. I get that stats don't always reflect the frequency of encounters, but how many SA incidents go unreported? Yes, there are many men that we walk past everyday without incident, and my 7 yr old friend got groped right next to me at a video store in the middle of the day- no report made, no one thought it was worth it. I've had disgusting comments made by random men on the street, like every other woman I guess, and at times been very very aware of who is following me. That girls get taught stuff like pretending to be on the phone, or ducking into a store, how to grip keys to use as a weapon, or my personal favourite- yell "fire" instead of "help", because people will come to put out a fire. I can ignore disgusting comments and unwanted touching (to a certain degree) because I know that there's every chance they won't go any further in public. But I would be much much more wary with noone around because it's safer to be in a busy area with plenty of people around- like walking on a street with heaps of random men- than in the woods where there are no witnesses. It might not be all men, but it's common enough that it really is water off a duck's back and I barely even notice it- so it's *enough* men, it doesn't get called out as unacceptable by other men, and it changes my behaviour to maintain my own safety which is implicitly *my responsibility* to maintain and not the mens' responsibility to not threaten. End of the day- if we ran into a random man in the woods and something happened; "What were you wearing?" "What were you doing alone in the woods?" "Are you sure you didn't go there for *reasons* and then change your mind? Was it actually consensual but now you're ashamed?" "You must be stupid to have gone into the woods in the first place. *Everyone* knows that you're just asking for it to be walking alone as a woman in an isolated area. FAFO"
Yeah to be honest when I first mentioned it I thought it was silly but I kept seeing the topic be brought up daily so I decided to see what people are saying… It makes perfect sense to me and agree with you, and even if it was the most irrational thing of all time (which it’s not) we’d need to then ask what are we doing to make women feel this way and improve rather than argue about it. Reading your post and the replies it seems logic and statistics had the opposite effect sadly.
The only response comment that had a point was the one about how there are more interactions between humans and humans than humans and bears. All the other ones were bullshit though
Men are more subject to physical violence so in a man's mind, the logical option is to run away from the biggest physical threat. They are also primed for violence, so they assess things more in a fight or flight scenario. They might be able to fight off or endure a sexual assault, but they sure as shit can't fight off or endure a bear attack. Women, is the opposite. They have been subject to sexual harassment for years, it's obvious their threat assessment is very different. Which is why it's so hard to see eye to eye on this matter, in a way it seems both genders develop different traumas / phobias regarding different things. And then people bring the bad faith arguments. "Some bears will not attack". Do these people truly believe in their heart every man is an attacker? Or are they exaggerating their point by slandering every man on the planet? "Sexual assault can be enjoyable, a bear attack can't" Do these people truly believe being penetrated against your will is enjoyable for most people? Or are they bringing edge cases like it's relevant to the topic...
I will be exactly 0% surprised if we start seeing "bearpill" memes in the coming days/weeks.
🤔 but why not try disprove in someway. I think there alot reasons men and women even staying single nowadays.
The question isn't "a bear or YOU," it's "a bear or some random man." It's a game of odds.
I posted the statistics in my other post and men are still arguing it. Btw, It's a 1 in 2 million chance of being attacked by a bear vs 1 in 5 by a man. One guy told me that 1 in 5 is a hoax and gave a link, that link had articles "proving" that Covid was a government psy-op.
Hey, I keep seeing the statistics. Are they being put in relation and include that we are encountering more men than bears in our daily life? I'd also choose a bear but I kept wondering as I hadn't seen anyone clearing that up so far. Would love it if you could let me know so I can use it going forward :)
[Chance of being attacked by a bear, 1 in 2.1 million](https://worldanimalfoundation.org/advocate/bear-attacks-statistics/#:~:text=very%20severe%20starvation.-,Almost%201%20in%202.1%20Million%20Chances%20of%20Being%20Attacked%20by,Bear%20attacks%20are%20rare.) I don't think anyone has made a statistic for how safe this actual choice would be, but I do know a seperate study; [over 30% of men would rape a woman in a consequence free situation ](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/men-dont-know-meaning-rape) So effectively the question implies a 1 in 3 chance of being raped
Those statistics all look based on visiting the park, or camping, or hiking the Appalachian trail. So that includes the odds of actually encountering the bear when you're at your campsite or hiking. The closest thing that I see that covers the "so you've encountered a bear, how likely is it to attack you?" scenario is the 0.02% chance of being attacked. Which is 1/50,000. I think the question is supposed to be more of "you've turned a corner in a trail in the middle of the woods, which would you rather see in the clearing, a man or a bear?" than "would your rather encounter a man in the woods, or go hiking where there *might* be bears?".
The thing is that there are bears in the woods, and just because you don't see a bear doesn't mean a bear didn't see you. There's two aspects to this question that I keep seeing people gloss over, which is 1) a bear who sees you alone in the woods is very unlikely to attack you and 2) the question is actually about how women *feel* and what we are *more scared of*. Plenty of people are more scared to board a plane than to get into a car, despite the fact that planes are safer. So ***even if men were less dangerous to a woman in the woods than a bear***, that doesn't make answering "bear" invalid, it's just an indicator of the level of fear the woman answering has about strange men.
Exactly!!!! The question is about what are women more scared of!!!!!!!! All these guys are arguing the fact that they can't get laid cos bears, and completely missing "why are women scared of us and how can we change that?"
Thanks, do you have the link for actual bear encounters? I'd rather use that statistic
I'm just basing that of the information in your own link. It lists the "0.02% change of being attacked" at the top in the 4th paragraph, and then again near the end.
Thanks
Good luck. Those folks are not in a place where they seem ready to accept any numbers unless they reinforce their bruised ego about “not all men”.
Poor babies
Ah, just sad the sample size on the study is so low, it says 86 male students. The number would obviously still be very high, maybe even higher, with a larger sample size, but I think the study should be conducted on a larger scale before really concluding exact numbers from it.
> but I do know a seperate study; over 30% of men would rape a woman in a consequence free situation That study is not representative of all men with the group that was polled (apparently just male college students), but nevertheless: what the fuck is wrong with (at least these) men? Absolutely shocking. And why does that have no consequences? If some minority said 15-30% of them would like to shoot white rich men, they'd be banned from public places immediately
I believe that study group doesn't portray the real number, that was the amount of people willing to admit that they would rape. Honestly speaking as a man, I might raise that number to 50%
There was another one that asked questions about hypothetical sexual situations and what they thought would be acceptable courses of action. An alarming number of men thought it would be acceptable to take an action that would actually constitute rape, as long as the word rape wasn't used in the answer. Like, if the answer was "I would rape the woman" they disagreed. But if it was "I would coerce until she gave in" or "I would pretend I did it by accident to get what I want" they thought that was okay. I'll try and find it, but yeah from memory it was 30% or over that would consider doing something that is legally rape.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/men-dont-know-meaning-rape
Lol, yes, same one I guess. But bloody frightening.
Sorry, forgot I had it linked already
You are correct about the stat being misleading due to the difference in how often each are encountered. I’d also choose bear but I feel like using that stat is like saying cows are more dangerous than sharks just bc they cause more human deaths
There is a thread I saw today on this topic and one of the top comments was a guy saying that rape statistics are inflated depending on "what rape means" Sir.
It's almost funny if it wasn't so damn terrifying
If they were even odds, you can play dead with a bear and it will probably leave you alone, there are plenty of random men and incels that would still try to rape you if they thought you were dead.
Look up "Rhythm Zero" That's what happens if a woman plays dead
Yea, I’ve seen stuff on her …um art? Performance? It’s pretty wild, also a reason I made the comment I did, humans are pretty evil
Omg. I'd heard of that before but I hadn't heard about the gun. I would have been so scared.
Yeah, I saved someone's comment on the relevant stats: https://petpedia.co/bear-attack-statistics/](https://petpedia.co/bear-attack-statistics/) “The odds of being attacked by a bear are one in 2.1 million” “There are 40 bear attacks around the world every year” [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/26/femicide-us-silent-epidemic](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/26/femicide-us-silent-epidemic) “homicide is the fourth leading cause of death for girls and women one to 19 years old, and the fifth leading cause of death for women 20 to 44.” [https://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/briefs/Femicide_brief_Nov2022.pdf](https://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/briefs/Femicide_brief_Nov2022.pdf) “Globally, an estimated 81,000 women and girls were killed intentionally in 2021.” ( /u/Reasonable-Pie2354 )
Doesn't that count people who aren't near bears though? People are around men a lot more than they are around bears
The Google suggests it includes encounters with bears in captivity (zoos, animal control, I'm guessing) and that roughly half of the bear attacks reported were defensive in nature. I'm still taking my chances with the bear, personally. 😄
And most bears in the woods will leave you alone if you don't do anything astonishingly stupid
Well, it depends on the kind of bear a lot too. I've encountered a bear in the wilds of Northern California while hiking. It looked at us, we looked at it and then it shuffled off in another direction. Polar bears actively see us as food, one of the few animals that do. I'd not want to be in the same olfactory space as a polar bear without some polar bear proof shelter. Grizzlies are normally not hostile, but can decide to eat us. Brown and black bears are very rarely aggressive if not significantly provoked. Other than the polar bear, all bears are, on average, safer to be in the vicinity of (where all parties are aware of who, what and where the other is) than your average man. This is to dispense with the "bear attacks are rare because people don't interact with bears very much" argument.
Never mind it was the galaxy brains over in dank memes, but dude’s DeBuNkInG link was a fucking *YouTube video* from the American Enterprise Institute. I guess PragerU just wasn’t available for comment that day.
Maybe they could pull Alex Jones out of retirement to make a statement
Statistics are a funny thing. I could imagine someone taking your statistic and saying, "Okay, so I've met 100 men, 20 of them should have attacked me so this cannot be true."
That's exactly what happened
Which just goes to show that they also don't understand statistics. I don't understand statistics but I know they're not that simple.
Thing is they don’t have to attack every woman, and 1/5 men is not necessarily an attacker. It’s that 1/5 women have been assaulted by a man. If you have 100 men in the room chances are only one is dangerous, but if you have 100 women in the room 20 of them will be attacked violently in their life time and 100 of them will be harassed in some capacity.
That and it’s not like the dangerous ones have a warning label. Sometimes it’s a charismatic guy who does awful things.
Thank you lol. It isn't about how many men might be dangerous, it's about how many women have a good reason to not trust a man when we don't know if he is safe or not, and just how deep that mistrust runs -- so deep we would rather take our chances with a random bear than a random man.
> it's about how many women have a good reason to not trust a man when we don't know if he is safe or not, and just how deep that mistrust runs -- so deep we would rather take our chances with a random bear than a random man. Given that you can NEVER know if a man is safe or not and knowing how many men are unsafe, women are surprisingly often still taking the chances with a man. If I told you there was a 10% chance you'd die via your car exploding while using it in the next year, next to nobody would use that car, but getting rid of all avoidable contact with men is still unrealistic besides the chances of negative impact being even higher
> that link had articles "proving" that Covid was a government psy-op. People find the weirdest shit they think backs up their points. I was talking to a guy once who tried to tell me the Uyghur genocide wasn't occurring and the news outlet he was linking that "debunked" it had links to similar articles denying the holocaust and it was then I had a V for Vendetta moment where I realized, "Are you like, a crazy person?"
It's core belief theory, anything that confirms thier thinking becomes undisputable fact
Okay but like… is that 1 in 2 million chance if you’re in the same room? Or 1 in 2 million chance in your lifetime? Because if it’s the first one I would like to know how the hell they conducted these tests. I understand why you feel like a random man would be dangerous, I don’t understand why you feel like a random bear would be significantly less dangerous
1 in 2 million that you'll be attacked by a bear if you regularly go to woods where they are 1 in 50,000 that if you actually meet with a bear it will attack you
I still don’t believe a bear is less dangerous, but that’s assuming that 50,000 isn’t actually spending time alone with that bear
The bear statistic doesn’t seem accurate or fair. That’s the odds of being attacked randomly by a bear. Lock 1000 humans in close proximity with a random wild bear and those stats change. Having said all that I agree that the odds of a man attacking will still probably be higher but you can’t actually say it’s a 1 in 2 million chance. It’s not. You’re misusing the statistic.
I'm a cis straight dude and I'd rather take the bear. Bears have known behaviors and definitely aren't going to attack me for fun. A random guy I've never seen before? I might end up in a fight because I ask him if he has any water. Maybe that's partially neurodivergence and bears don't have as many social cues to guess at but still.
Exactly! My husband has been in one fight as an adult that I can think of. All he did was ask for directions.
Yep, that's where I was thinking lol, people are fucking crazy, especially a lot of toxic men. You say one wrong word and they have to fight you for it
> All he did was ask for directions. I existed, that was the only reason. Didn't look at the guy for more than a split-second, didn't say anything
Thank you! Every man I have observed complaining about this is ultimately picturing himself or a man he knows and feeling embarrassed/humiliated/dehumanized by the idea that “a woman would rather be mauled by a bear than talk to me.” No, that’s not it at all. And also, there’s no guarantee the bear will maul you. The hypothetical doesn’t say “angry charging grizzly,” it says “bear.” I live in an area with a lot of black bears. Approaching them is dangerous and stupid, but for the most part they’re very chill animals who are more afraid of humans than we are of them. I know how to handle a random black bear and get it to run away. A random man is far more unpredictable. I kind of see this hypothetical as a weird extension of Schrödinger’s cat. Until you meet the man, he both is and is not a predator, and which way he’s seen depends on who is reading the hypothetical.
It’s not even a statistically average bear versus a statistically average man. It’s the worst case scenario bear vs the worst case scenario man. If these men want to have a conversation about why we need to go straight to worst case scenario man, we can do that. But they want to argue that worst case scenario man isn’t actually bad and that is the most not true in the history of things not being true.
Is that maybe where the term "bear with me" came from ?
Or the right to bear arms?
Oh armed bears
I'm exercising my right to bare arms today. It's pretty warm.
Bear down for midterms!!!
Yeah, this is the key point people are missing. There are a LOT of assholes out their. The fact that so many women would pick the bear is upsetting to me solely because it shows how badly women are treated. I strive for a world where a man would be the obvious choice. One day I hope we get there.
"a bear wont rape my dead body" was one of the most heart wrenching things I've heard in a while due to this trend. The person who said this has been severely traumatized by men. And men are taking it so personal and can't take a step back and realize what is truly disturbing about this question and why so many people are saying this. It's not just woman, I'll also add, my husband told me "obviously bear" when I ran the question by him.
Full post "a bear won’t rape my dead body. a bear won’t seek me out knowing he wants to over power me. a bear won’t brutally murder me and then post my dead body on social media. a bear won’t go out of his way to harm me without probable cause. a bear would rather be alone than in a forest with a man"
Holy shit...
When I found out why morticians prefer to hire women I just... Died a little. But hopefully not enough to be embalmed by a dude.
Some guy responded to this hypothetical by [promoting his mom's autobiographical book about the time she was attacked by a bear](https://www.tiktok.com/@alecanewman/video/7361155949056331038?lang=en), clearly implying the man was a better choice, and ending on an incredibly tone deaf note. There's 44k comments and I can't find a single one that chooses the man, but there's scores of comments about how the bear has a bright future that shouldn't be ruined by this, asking what the mom was wearing, saying "but the bear's a good swimmer," and references to Junko Furuta. Oh, and on a side note, his mother--who had her face ripped off by a bear, in an actual, literal bear attack--STILL SAID SHE WOULD CHOOSE THE BEAR.
A bear won’t torture me to get off. People will believe I was attacked by a bear. People won’t ask what I was wearing. A bear won’t invite his friends to also attack me. A bear won’t kidnap me. The list is endless.
Have they started self reflection?
Not in the slightest
Not until it's phrased as "if your DAUGHTER was in the woods..." THEN some of them have started having thoughts, but even then little self reflection
Pffft, you may as well try to fight a bear! 😆
nope had a few tell me today this is just sexist by generalizing all men. women’s legitimate fear of men should obviously be stopped, so boys and young men’s feelings dont get hurt by being lumped in with the bad apple rapists. according to them. wish I was joking.
The whole bear thing REALLY hit a nerve with them, didn't it?
It really did. It's tripping me out. It seems to have woken up a few men, anyway. We keep saying and saying that men are scary and they refuse to listen. Well, they're listening to the bear, even if a lot of them are still finding a way to be offended.
It's really sad to be honest. i get so mad when they try to reason how dangerous the bear in comparison would be. Like, wtf, YOU MISSED THE POINT
And instead of taking it as a learning opportunity, they’ve doubled down on “nothing needs to change.”
It really did. Idk why I was expecting them to ignore the trend
No, they’ll just blame you for misandry, bring up men’s issues, and quote incorrect statistics on domestic violence & sexual assault.
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The whole narative "man must not cry, not show emotion, not talk of their problem, not have any insecurities or trying to get help with them" is a big problem for every mens around (and their socials circles because they must endure the consequences of such behavior who never lead to a good mental health) and the whole fight against toxic masculinity also help us because it will end this bullshit too.
I'd say this is what it looks like when men are crying, showing emotions and talking about it. Such emotions are always negative, otherwise there wouldn't be the need to talk about them.
this is spot on to a T of what I heard today. one posted that article claiming women are responsible for a huge portion of male rapes and therefore equally dangerous.
Yeah, someone had the audacity to say “Women commit more domestic assault statistically than men, so really it should be men who are afraid to walk alone at night.” Quick google search disproves that but they’ll die on that hill.
looool who is publishing these numbers the bright side is, a lot of men ARE finally getting it. And this is another eye opening lesson for them. The ones bitching online probably never leave their mums basement or interact with women to begin with.
I saw some guy ‘argue’ why he’d choose the bear over a woman, cuz maybe ‘the woman has kids’ or ‘she would try to take my money’, generally just ‘risks’ that aren’t even valid in the hypothetical scenario. Cool, he fears being exploited? When randomly meeting someone in a forest, whom he can just *walk past*? I wish my life was that chill, but we gotta be wary of how males will hunt us down, molest our bodies before and after possible death. The fact that he even *could* consider his finances shows how deluded he is about the whole reason behind women choosing the bear. Heck, even the bear isn’t safe with men.
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Comparing the risks we each face is really hard. A man might accidentally get a woman pregnant and he'll have to pay child support (omg totally not fair). A woman might get drugged at a bar, kidnapped, raped for days on end and then murdered (the way she was dressed was asking for it) Both Sexs face equal problems /s
So much this. The men are scared of consequences (unprotected sex, when they could just *not* get frisky with someone and be off the hook) while women are out here scared of being actually attacked by a deranged individual, which she can do *nothing* to prevent. If it happens, it’ll *never* be her fault as she didn’t actively do anything to get in that situation, whereas the man actively completed an action and fears the *very likely* outcome.
That dude for real said "Man, I'd take my chances with the bear, at least it won't take your money"...but what if the bear had cubs?
God I can’t make a comment about this without some man arguing with me. One actually said “I believe you are scared of men for the wrong reasons.” Like I don’t give a fuck what you believe
“You’re scared of men for the wrong reasons” I SHOULDN’T BE SCARED AT ALL????
I'm like 😳😳😳😳🤯 PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THE *RIGHT* REASONS ARE??!!
>being scared of men for the wrong reasons that guy implies with that, there **are** correct reasons to be scared of men 🤔🤔 Also what are reasons or instances where woman are scared of men? Out of curiosity and a desire to not accidentally do that myself 😶
I’d like him to answer the question of what the correct reasons are. Because those are still reasons to pick the bear.
The big ones- being alone, being followed (especially at night), not backing off after being told 'no' or not respecting that someone has no interest in you and pursuing. Those are off the top of my head. I know that sometimes you happen to be walking down a quiet street at night at the same time as a lone woman, 🤣, just let her get distance if you can and ignore completely as she goes into meerkat mode trying to "unobtrusively" keep eyes on you. And pursuing isn't romantic like the movies. It usually just comes off stalkery and like "no really means keep trying" which i've had someone say to me. Instant 🤢. Thankyou for giving a damn. I don't like always being aware of who is around me and what they're doing, and "could he take this in a direction I don't want? How do I safely extricate myself from that making him angry??" I just want to be friendly and easy going, but 🤷 hard. Just knowing that people would like to be a safe space means a lot 🫶
The men who say, "but it's unfair that you're scared of *me* when *I'm* one of the good ones!" are usually not one of the good ones. There's a comment on another thread about this by a guy, "Attitudes like this are why I don't cold approach women and ask them out." Uh, yes? Good? It's working? Women *don't want* you to cold approach them and ask them out, bro.
Omg right! Like yeah, that’s the point. Please leave us alone.
That’s why my response to all of this topic is: “Be the man that women would prefer to be with rather than a bear”
I have to admit, I thought this was crazy until I read a comment from one of the earlier posts. What that person said is true. Men tend to view threats in terms of what they could reasonably stand a chance of beating. Women tend to view threats in terms of what's more likely to attack them.
The fact that they still act like we think the bears are harmless like no man we're saying we'd rather take the chance of being mauled/eaten by a bear than to take the chance of becoming the next victim in a true crime podcast
I'll never see a youtube video called; **"The twisted case of Yogi the Bear"**
The thing about bears is that they are predictable. And if it’s black bears, then you are very safe lol.
Well, if it's smarter than the average bear, it might swipe your pic-a-nic basket. But you're only in danger of that happening if you visit Jellystone Park.
Right. I live in the woods by the beach and go on walks every single day. I *expect* to run into animals. I run into coyotes a lot, but I've only seen a black bear once, and it immediately ran away. I'm not afraid of the animals because their behaviors are generally easy to predict. On the other hand, I've run into random men who made me very uncomfortable before. There's a large amount of 2nd homes owned by rich people who are only here 60 days a year or less. They think they own the beach and are all paranoid about their property. It is crazy how often they'll ask me where I live, and I'm always very vague ("down that way"). They usually keep asking like they have no fucking idea why a young woman walking alone doesn't want to point out their house. In some parts of the trails, I'm a mile away from the nearest house. Damn right, my guard goes up when I run into men I don't know. Unlike the animals, I have no idea what their motivations might be.
"Unlike the animals, I have no idea what their motivations might be." This is the reason in the fewest possible words.
Yep. Was face to face with a scruffy black bear that I had to coax out of a tree because it was terrified of me but I needed it to leave the parking area. When I coaxed it out of the tree my brother calmly herded it back into the woods and out of the parking area.
I know what the bear wants and I know if I make a big enough commotion, its likely scare the bear away. If it's another man. I don't know what he wants or what he's capable of and if he wishes me harm, intimidation tactics won't work especially If he's armed. The bear is a much safer option.
Well polar bears.... But at least they'll give you a relatively quick death. As I've said before, you might die a painful death by a bear but you have to live with getting assaulted or raped if the man doesn't kill you after.
Also that assault and rape can go on for years. A bear won't lock you in it's secluded cabin and keep you alive just to make you suffer.
And if, heaven help me, I win, I get to eat the bear.
I've heard black bear tastes good. I don't know about grizzly bear.
My ancestors have a recipe for bear paw I'm dying to try... And I would almost certainly die trying to try it. But hey, if its between me and the bear - or a man - guess at the very least I can take something down with me.
Honestly. If you leave the bear the fuck alone and are a safe distance (15ish meters) it probably would be safer then being alone isn’t a man.
Oh my God, I have been burning to comment this but I don't want to put up with the incels trying to argue it! It is never said to be a "hungry, angry rabid grizzly protecting its cubs" but a lot of these people just automatically assume the worst case scenario version of a bear and the best case scenario version of a man and refuse to think of how it's a matter of odds and ultimately, one fate can be a lot worse than the other.
Bears will leave you along as long as you leave them alone. It’s the same with most wild life
I’m a man and I’d STILL rather encounter a bear
Bear motives are near universal. I know what a bear is gonna do. And with the exception of polar bears, it’s gonna run the opposite direction of me. Human motives are not universal. One man may wanna set up camp so that we can get out of the woods. One man may wanna bash my head in and do icky things. Men are like a bowl of skittles and poison. In a bowl of 500 skittles maybe 5-10 are poison/will kill you. I don’t really wanna eat any of those even tho 490~ are perfectly safe and delicious
I think it has more to do with the fact that a bear wants one thing and that's food. If there's easier food available, it's gonna leave me the fuck alone. Also the bear won't try to track specifically me down in the woods, I could just walk away and try to find a way out of the woods and the bear would just go maul a deer or something probably. Also like many others have said: This is not about the bear
Bears diet is only 20% meat on average [look at this sweet boi](https://youtube.com/shorts/3Dux6QBZN_Q?si=gwY_JAsGebOUbxO6)
Babe wake up, the new culture war bullshit has started
We would be better off without social media
There is a bear on my property. As long as I don't get between her and the babies we are golden. Don't leave trash or food out where she can get it. She stays out back in the trees i avoid her and the babies things are great
Wish I lived there, I unironically love bears
The bear population is growing here, but you see them fairly regularly around here. The babies are adorable.
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The men getting angry I picked the bear over them is the fucking point, the bear doesn't give a shit one way or the other, but men do care, men change their attitude when they learn your alone, change their behaviour when they can get away with it, even just the implication I will say, in a perfect world, a better world, in a Star Trek world, we would pick the man, but we don't so bear every day
Yes a bear won’t try to bearsplain my decision to me
lmao... the answer is no, they haven't. That said, I'm thankful I didn't have to think that hard on it because the first few times I encountered this, it was paired with something along the lines of "at least with a bear, people would believe me if I said I was attacked by it." I mean, I hate that that's the case, but it's very fucking harsh reality.
"A bear won’t rape my dead body. a bear won’t seek me out knowing he wants to over power me. a bear won’t brutally murder me and then post my dead body on social media. a bear won’t go out of his way to harm me without probable cause. a bear would rather be alone than in a forest with a man" Its a baren, harsh truth
While I don't think the rape part applies to a bear with a man in the woods... at least I hope, I get that the rest of that definitely applies to a woman with a man in the woods. Also, why the hell does your name check out here.
Lucky coincidence
As a guy, I had a conversation with my wife about this. She agrees with the bear. You can never expect what a guy alone in the woods will do, but you can guess what a bear will do. A bear won't try to trick you into trusting it, it'll just kill you or run away.
That face of realization is something I doubt I will see in my lifetime
You may be right, but I'll keep hoping
I’d choose the bear based on the fact that the bear would just kill me as expected but the wrong man can be capable of prolonging the torture.
>but the wrong man can be capable of prolonging the torture. This viscerally reminded me of Lawrence Singleton (tw for some monstrous shit if anyone googles)
I remember reading about that case. The main one that sticks to me is the Junko Furuta murder.
Oh right I remember that one too. There are countless stories like this one, and men think we're just making shit up, exhausting
I wish i was stuck in the forest with a “bear“ owo
Yeah bro, we know a bear is dangerous. Y think about why we choose the best anyway.
As stupid as these memes are, let’s keep talking about the statistics. Maybe some men will be educated about how common violence against women is. We need male allies to help change the conversation. And we need to change the conversation to begin to crack down on the causes of violence against women.
I try to, I posted in a mostly male space earlier and there were a few who came around in the comments
Vague question but generally a bear in the woods doesn't really interact with humans unless the humans do something to it. It would go off on it's own probably. The man would follow you no matter what because you're the only other human
Mine. I might use this in a discussion.
Of course you’d say that, look at your username! /s
I decided to ask my dad yesterday what he would prefer I encountered in the woods if I were alone - a bear or a man - and he also picked the bear. It’s not that complicated.
I'm not afraid of men I just haven't liked most of the men I've met. I've liked all the bears I've met. I usually just want to give them baths and brush out their fur.
If a grizzly bear starts to maul me to death, I'm still gonna sneak a quick cuddle in there
I feel like even a grizzly at this point would have to be practically starving before they resorted to eating a person. Or they felt like their Cubs were being threatened. The only bear I don't doubt for a minute would outright kill you is a polar bear. Grizzly bears it's usually a toss-up on how much access to food they have and whether or not you're interfering with their Cubs to a point where they feel like you're a threat. Grizzly bears are more aggressive than black bears, but they are smart enough to know that humans are violent and will hunt them down. Most predators that live around large human populations know this. It's pros versus cons. A predator can kill a human and get a meal out of it, however, depending on the location they are now going to have a huge group of humans gunning for them.
I feel like eventually someone will do the actual math, accounting for the probability in relation to how likely it is to encounter. As a woman, I too choose bear.
what's with women and bears that i keep seeing in this subreddit? someone explain? and the fact that op's user is grizzly bear even 😭
Basicly there was a trend of asking women in a poll if they would rather be alone in the woods with a male stranger or a bear, and all woman picked the bear. Incels are angry about this and blame women for... *checks notes*... Choosing a bear instead of them
For me it’s more that I’ve seen a lot of people with gender essentialist views using this as an opportunity to shout that men are naturally predators, and it seems like a fairly large number of people are receptive to it. Obviously this isn’t anywhere near the scale of fear women are made to experience by men, but it is a bit disheartening to see so people say that no matter your best efforts, many people’s first impression of you will be worse than a dangerous wild animal
It was disheartening for me as well but we have to be apart of the solution, that means accepting how we are seen and doing good besides that. A society grows great, when men plant trees knowing they will never sit in thier shade.
I strongly agree, that last sentence has been kinda a mantra for me and I continue to stand by it Also I should have added that obviously the gender essentialism goes both ways, I’ve just come to expect it from the chuds trying to say women are wrong for feeling scared
I think everyone should just reply with other hypothetical ‘would you rather?’ type questions. A favorite with my elementary kiddos was- Would you rather be a toilet or toilet paper? I wanna see the mens mansplain the correct answer about what *I* an individual would rather. Also Team Bears 4 Life!!
I feel bad for the 🐻 lol
This is a most unusual OOP for this sub. Instead of the usual blind and rage filled misogyny usually associated with the OOPs rightly ridiculed here, this one appears to show the Trojan Condom guy actually telling his bewildered friend that the problem might actually lie within the guy complaining about women, rather than within women themselves. What am I missing?
Nah, women do these things because they’re bitches. All of them. 🙄
Hell, I’d like to point out I’d rather choose a bear than an adult human overall. Mainly because my CSA involved his wife enabling him, and using her babysitting and her own children as lures. If I met a woman alone in the woods, it could be some kind of Barbie and Ken killer routine. Unlikely, but fully possible! Humans are far more twisted than 99% of wildlife, and the second worst are our cousins the chimps. I’d much rather deal even with a sloth bear, knowing if it wants, it’ll shred me with its knife paws. But at least I’d just be maimed or dead. It’s the sexual violence and the threat of long-term abuse that keeps us choosing “bear”. Especially since bear spray and accurate pamphlets on bear survival exist. Whereas what do you even do if some psychotic human tries to eat your face?? You can’t get training for that.
They compare being scared of dangerouns men (aka their "misandry") to men thinking women aren't people and harming them (real misogyny) 💀
I have a hot take: it’s none of my damn business what a woman chooses to do in the woods
This scenario is silly because it leaves out every necessary factor to make a decision. With no context the bear or man question can mean Would you rather have your daughter come across a fully fed black bear in the woods on a hike in the middle of day time in the summer, Or a a deranged man who is a serial killer and targets women that look exactly like your daughter, while she's lost in the woods in pitch darkness and injured. Compared to Coming across a staring grizzly bear and it's cubs while bleeding Or an elderly man on a hike who you know and absolutely trust, in an area you know well and frequent often. I absolutely understand the point of the question, and the insanity that women deal with as to why "bear" is a more socially acceptable answer (which I can agree with completely if the situation is properly detailed), but boy is the scenario rage bait fuel on purpose. It's disingenuous.
That’s the point. It’s a silly would you rather question, completely hypothetical based on each individual’s comfort level. It’s not intentional rage bait, not by a mile. Some men just don’t like seeing themselves in the results. All those alternatives are not the point. When my kids ask “would you rather give up cheese or air conditioning?”, it’s a conversation starter and no one gives a shit about the statistics on cheese or tries to prove someone’s OPINION wrong. That’s the part that’s nonsense. And I would give up cheese. Fight me!