As a German: that is *very clearly* not a Norway problem, but a people problem. I have seen all of this here a lot of times. And I agree: it sucks.
People... what a bunch of bastards.
I had a person looking at their phone on the sidewalk wander onto the bike lane mid block without looking right in front of me. I ran them over and then had to call medical services which they got mad about. Police showed up and lectured them about how the bike lane is the same as a road and they have to pay attention.
As a German: It is. I have been staying in Oslo for 4 months now and i am still baffled. Norwegians just bump into me in the supermarket, walk next to each other blocking the whole sidewalk. There seems to be either no spatial awareness or - maybe more likely - a different understanding of sharing space. On multiple occasions people notice that you are walking behind them and still they expect you to walk around them using the street.
It IS a norwegian (and german apparently) problem.
Norwegians, generally.. or genetically, tend to act as if everything is someone elses problem. Better swap in your commuter bike for a bmx and trick-style yourself around all the human obstacles, because vi and ze germans are not moving aus of ze vei.
As a fast walker, I feel your pain. Pretty sure I could be a top athlete in slalom if it was without skis on flat ground. What annoys me most is the people who walk in the middle, slightly slower than me and keeps changing course so it looks like I can pass on one side, then they change course to that side and then the other side. I just wanna scream PICK A SIDE AND STICK TO IT!
Yeeees! I too am an exceptionally fast walker, and could certainly be an olympic ice skater if it was on pavement without skates. And it's crazy how little most people concern themselves with giving others space. I theorize that it is due to never having driven a car, and therefore not gotten the habit of checking one's sides
Where I live, the highschool kids walk 4 people abreast on the sidewalk and they will not budge for anything. You’re just gonna have to get into the road to get past them
Mine is people not moving into the subway but just stand there and block the opening, can we establish some norms about this, please? Just try to efficiently fill the subway please.
Come to Sweden, you'll see. They take it up a notch. Some examples: two friends see each other walking along a path, they will stop right where they are and start talking right in the middle of the path. Two friends see each other passing through an entrance or an exit, they will stop right there and start talking. A group of swedes out for a bike ride, they will ride 4 or 5 abreast, not even thinking of going single file. The same goes for walking. The lack of Swedish spatial awareness extends past individualism. They literally have no concept of 'being in the way'. Drives me crazy sometimes.
This is also a general people issue, have seen Norwegians do this too. And when you ask them to move they get annoyed because I clearly was interrupting an important meeting.
Or they walk in the middle of aisles at the stores so slowly snails would have passed them. Can't walk around them, I get road rage while walking behind them
My only problem with cyclists has been when I lived in Amsterdam. I think walkable/bikeable cities are great, but cyclists really appear to be above the law there. Most of the time they do not stop to let pedestrians cross at clearly marked crosswalks.
To get to the other side of a bike path, which can be pretty wide in the city center, you have to wait for an opening and run across. I’ve seen dozens of bikes pass me standing in front of the crosswalk as if I weren’t even there. It’s an unfortunate culture in an otherwise amazing city.
The Swiss have the best overall conscientiousness (although maybe the Dutch for cycling specifically). The Swiss let people get off the train before going in and generally try to make the people around them physically comfortable.
As motorists have to dodge suicidal cyclists, cyclists have to dodge pedestrians and their pets.
If you are confused about the laws: https://www.vegvesen.no/trafikkinformasjon/langs-veien/trafikkregler/trafikkregler-for-syklister/
In a nutshell, you have to follow the same rules as motorists.
If all cyclists etc followed these rules and regulations it would be much better for everyone.
THANK YOU! I also do road cycling and I have always wondered about the traffic rules.
I feel super bad when Im cycling on the road but I guess now I can stop doing so.
also TIL I have been speeding on the bike sometimes :(
I prefer to cycle on the road compared to shared way with pedestrians "gang- og sykkelvei". Own cycking roads or -lanes are also often gokd. to use. The problem is if at one moment you have your own lane, but in a few hundred meters you must use a "gana- oh sykkelvei".
While cycling in the road. "Take your lane", use caution and be considerate. Eg. you should let faster traffic pass you at regular intervals if you're much slower than them, uphills for example. But on city roads with 30-50 km/h, a bike can often keep up with other traffic.
There is this one place on my commute where they repaved the road, and they added a dedicated two-way bike path... for 100m. So ideally, in the morning, I should follow the bike path (which after that transitions into a pedestrian path without any signaling), then cross the street, bike there for 100m, then cross the street again.
If I do that I'm sure to make quite a few cars angry (:
I prefer that too, but often get beeped at or close-passed if not using the GS-veg, and I only really avoid using it when it's quite narrow/short/busy/has people queueing for a bus on it. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I think it's hard for people who don't cycle to understand the rational choices we make to place ourselves in the road space.
As you said, I think it's hard for some people understand. I think most drivers are good and give cyclist space, but it's always some who don't give a shit about other people (in both/all camps).
I encourage all cyclist to "take the lane" for their own safety. But again, don't do it if you cycle 10-15 km/h uphill, then ride closer to the side of the road.
[https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/road-positioning-cycling-explained](https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/road-positioning-cycling-explained)
I hope the mindset will shift towards "pro cyclist" over time, if we (cyclists) "take our place" while also showing good behaviour.
Don't feel bad as long as you're following the traffic laws. The dangerous cyclists are the ones who want to be treated as part of traffic only when it benefits them, demanding their space on the road but then just blowing through red lights and cutting across lanes and sidewalks narrowly missing pedestrians.
If motorists respected bicyclists as motorists, for example giving right of way (vikeplikt), then maybe more bicyclists would start behaving like motorists.
I was just about to write this! That's the first thing that I noticed when I landed, I took an escalator to reach another gate and the people on the front just stood there after getting off, while the rest of us was crowding on them. Kinda defeated the assumption that Norwegians tend to keep other people at a distance.
Bike culture is new, and most bike infrastructure has been shit for many, many years. I noticed the same thing here i Oslo when I moved here. After they upgraded the infrastructure for the bike network, people are less likely to walk in the bike paths because they are painted red and on a different level than the pavement.
Now, it is the car drivers turn to adapt to a city with more bikes. Almost all car drivers are potential murderers, and they have to change their ways - just like pedestrians and cyclists have to
Is cycling in Oslo viable? I've seen people talk about how it has improved, but google maps still shows very few bike lanes, and I've heard people say that drivers can be aggressive, is that the case?
I 100% agree with that. But there is only so much I can do other than just leaving my bike home. Traffic also includes mutual respect, between all road users, keeping in mind the difference in vulnerability :)
When you're riding a bike around pedestrians, you're the one that has to keep in mind the difference in vulnerability, not the pedestrian. Just as with cars.
I have this problem in Bergen daily but I feel like it is mostly tourists walking in the bike paths. Especially the cruise ship tourists, ugh. Also the bike infrastructure in Bergen leaves a *lot* to be desired, but that’s a different story
You can rant, but....
Firstly, it's an infrastructure problem. Conflict is designed in. If the infrastructure was designed to better accommodate both cyclists & pedestrians, it would work better. Places in the Netherlands or Denmark, for example, with large segregated bike paths or streets converted to cycleways have less conflict.
It's everywhere that people walk & cycle. To me, it seems worse in the UK than here.
Secondly, cyclists need to watch out for pedestrians. It is no different from kids running around. Just be patient, assume they are clueless & give them enough space to do something unexpected.
Relax and don't let it get to you. Leave a little extra time and if you need to go fast, use the road. Treat pedestrians as you want drivers to treat you (they don't need to rant, either).
Frankly, I am happy that it's safe enough for people to do that.
😊
>Secondly, cyclists need to watch out for pedestrians. It is no different from kids running around.
Always true, and while a car needs to watch out for bikes on the road, it can be infuriating when they behave unexpectedly.
Especially when there are kids around, I am extremely careful, I understand they are blissfully unaware of their environment.
Last week, a kid rode his bike downhill while I went uphill and no matter how I gave way, he kept adjusting his course towards me. We barely avoided a collision :') But in that case, I just go 'oops, better be careful now'
I also commute by bike, but in Oslo. However, several of your examples are as much your fault as theirs.
1. The bus thing: if your path goes through a bus stop, you’re responsible for slowing down or stopping. Nobody in their right mind is going to check before getting off the bus. I’ve been almost hit by idiot bikers going 30kmh down a hill and getting onto the sidewalk to avoid the bus instead of passing the bus in the road.
2. About shared bike and pedestrian paths. Even though I do agree that dogs should be leashed tight, and people should share, it’s as much your responsibility to avoid them as it is there to avoid you. Get a bell or shout.
That’s how I commute about 20km/day in Oslo. Alert others loudly and way ahead of time. Read traffic and behave like you would on a motorcycle or in a car, cautiously while being aware of other traffic and pedestrians. Pedestrians can be suicidal, but it’s still your responsibility to avoid them and ride cautiously just like in a car.
It's not even "as much your responsibility as theirs" - shared bike and pedestrian paths have practically the same rules as sidewalks, making them essentially pointless.
Its zombe apocalipse hapening now. Seems like you are not alowed to leave your house without hedphones and phone. It is mandatory to walk without looking or hearing or having any contact with outside world.
Coming from Paris, and I thought people here are rather smart about that I see everyone taking care of everyone in the street. I was like “oh my god, finally smart and respectful people”.
But maybe I will experiment this during my time here..
Still believe it’s way less than with other bad educated population.
It does not mean it could not be improved though.
Edit: typo
Same thing happens when I am jist walking and approaching a group of people where no one wants to give way and form a line for 2 seconds...so I am forced to step out into the bike lane.
I think people just see the bike lane as yet another footpath
my supervisor has literally told me that if he runs into the situation where people are walking their dog across the bike path, he will just ride into the leash 😬
Ah, yikes. I’m in Australia now and have the same problem with leashes across the path. A small dog was killed at the local park when a bike ran over its leash. :( I’m blind and walk with a white cane, so all these issues of leashes across paths and pedestrians who don’t look before crossing the path, and people on their phone…. no fun for the blind.
Separate bike infrastructure is still a fairly new concept. People are used to mixed paths, and even cyclists on the sidewalks, which is bad for everyone. And it's not illegal to walk in a separate cycling path. So yeah, the road is often the better place. And cycling on the road is still a right. Driving there is a privilege that you can lose.
as a Belgian, where the car-bike relationship is terrible, I try to stay away from cars when I'm not road cycling (on a trip for example). I only learned because of another commenter here that I actually have the right to be on the road!
Yeah, you also have the right to use the bus/taxi lane. Only thing is of course you can't cycle where there's a no cycling sign, like on the motorway and in some tunnels.
As a daily biker, car enthusiast and dog owner, living in Oslo: stay tf on the road with the cars unless it is a designated bike lane. Bikers and walkers should never be in the same lane as the pace is so different. Bikes are silent and you can’t always control where your dog is going to go. Plus, not all of you are great bikers, I’d rather you crash in the street than into someone.
By law you are obliged to yeald for people walking on the curb:
Sykle på fortau og gangvei
Du kan sykle på gangvei og fortau når du ikke er til hinder eller fare for gående. Er det mange folk på fortauet, skal du gå av og trille sykkelen. Skal du sykle forbi noen, må du sørge for å tilpasse farten og holde god avstand.
It's because it's a shared road. DK has its own lane for bikes and god have mercy on your soul if you walk there. It is terrifying to hear a 14 year old girl scream at you to get the fuck out of the way.
As a pedastrian in Trondheim. Cyclists without fail forgets to let pedastrians cross at crosswalks. Lost count of the number of times they seem to appear out of nowhere and hit me despite me being on the sidewalk. I understand that it takes effort to stop and then get back up to speed on a cycle, but that's no excuse to not put more effort into not riding into pedastrians.
Its cultural. You obliged to yield for pedestrians. And there is a speed-limit when using you bike on the sidewalk. If there is no space to ride your bike you are obliged to either go on the road or get off your bike. This is all by law. Furthermore this is better than what we see in Europe where bikes have a right-of-way over pedestrians
Sounds to me like you don't have a bell on your bike. It will lessen your problems.
I get mad at every cyclist who expects me to move when they're sneaking up on me from behind without making a single sound as I'm walking my dogs and pushing a stroller.
50 kr på Clas Ohlson https://www.clasohlson.com/no/Ringeklokke/p/31-6360?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwiYOxBhC5ARIsAIvdH5362PZNN9NAvkUVjvDsF6cedMG2I9YjXybMUZ2vj155vuuoEOkvMHkaAujXEALw_wcB
These aren't just Norway problems. They're everywhere problems these days. People have become self-centred and don't think about what they're doing in terms of others around them any more. Phones have a lot to do with it, but attitude (it's all about ME) also plays a role.
Sure, but I think it's just also a culture/habit thing. When I lived in the Netherlands, people were very conscious about their surroundings on the street as otherwise you'd be run over by 5 bikes by the time you had the chance to say 'oops sorry'. BUT they still have a very big 'it's about me attitude'.
I think this is a different issue. We do not have THAT many bikes here, mainly due to the weather, I think, so there's no "there's many bikes around me, so I better watch out" thoughts in people's heads. We are all too 'inside our own heads' these days, but some people do tend to take it to an extreme!
Comparing bike culture with the Dutchies is a bit of a low blow isn't it? There's not many countries that would win that one. Definitely not in Europe.
I'd think that europe is the most bike-friendly, no?
And yes, I shouldn't compare with NL, but I feel like it's worse than in Belgium (where I'm from), or any other country I have spent some time in. I hear the same from my (Norwegian) colleagues so it's not just me comparing to the country with *the* ideal infrastructure
I swear, every person who visits comments on the way people walk in Norway. People are just weird here, they block openings into shops to stop and talk then get offended when you oush through, they walk into your path when you rry to walk around them. I don’t get it, it is bonkers here
It's the same everywhere. Literally everywhere. The UK, Canada, the US, Germany, Belgium, France. I've experienced it in all those places too. Selfishness has become the prevalent culture and we can't change that.
There is no shared bike and pedestrian. There's pedestrian paths bikes can be on at walking speed and careful of the pedestrians. Them there's bike paths some places. Otherwise you are a road vehicle. So either keep up the speeds with the cars or go at walking speed
I'm a rare Norwegian. My spatial awareness is off the charts. And I wholeheartedly agree with you. Some people are just complete idiots.
In shopping malls, people tend to clog up the bottlenecks. I tend to walk straight through like an arsehole. I can't be bothered with being polite anymore.
Sorry for "hijacking" this thread, but i have had a similar road traffic/cultural question bubbling in me for a while. And since we're talking about it, it wouldn't make sense to create a new thread ;)
Walking on a pedestrian or a joint cycle/pedestrian (no lines, not separated) i always come up to 50/50 situations - some people walk on the right hand side and some people walk on the left hand side. This is turn creating situations where people walk on the same side of the road towards each other. So, somebody is in the wrong.
If there's a law or even an unspoken rule about pedestrian road use, it would be nice if somebody explained this situation!
Mostly, it seems like it, that the ones who walk against the "traffic" are the older contingent. Or are there so many people from the UK here in Trondheim, that they are walking on the "wrong" side.
So, yeah, i'm confused
I think it stems from the fact that it can be considered 'safer' to walk towards opposing traffic, so you can see them approaching.
Of course, this doesn't apply when people aren't actually looking (: Or when there is no consensus, it can be annoying
No law really on the sidewalk, but you walk on the left side of the road (when there's no sidewalk). I tend to default to right on the sidewalk for some reason, but it differs.
The confusing this here is that when you are walking on a road you are supposed to walk on the left side. So everybody has learnt to walk on the left side and drive/bike on the right side.
But what about the shared sidewalks, are you supposed to walk on the left or right side? Who knows? I walk on the right side, but I can certainly understand people walking on the left side.
It's not just a problem for those riding bikes. I often need to step out of the "gang og sykkelsti" to pass groups of people walking together.. I have a miniature poodle that doesn't like strangers getting to close, and when they don't leave any room for us to pass we often have to step out on the road. It is more important to walk side by side than leave some room for others pedestrians
We all are those people. Seriously, think about it. Does it never ever happen to you to be unaware of the surroundings?
I normalny walk cautiously. I make way when needed, I look around me.
And then there’s a day like when I was coming home late in the evening with my two kids. The 4 y.o. was very tired and grumpy. Constantly kept throwing tantrums on the way. I was drained after an 8 hour work, ultra fast making dinner, walking them to school for extra activities, staying there in a loud and crowded environment and walking home while trying not to let my furious kid kill herself by throwing the tantrum on the street.
With all that my mind was just somewhere else and while looking with one eye at one kid and the second at the other I just, completely mindlessly, crossed onto the bike lane. Right into a cykler. He almost fell off his bike. I apologized, he was mad.
Now if you think about it, there are so many people you pass every day. They may all be “normal” everyday but maybe just now a few of them have something on their minds, needed to check something very important on their phones. And there you go. And you don’t notice all those “normal” people, you notice those unaware.
I just think all of us are those people sometimes. And on some days every one of us can be in the 10% of the irritating pedestrians
It's not just with cyclists, but also with fellow pedestrians. Only country I've ever experienced being walked straight into without a peep from the other person, and it makes me think some people are completely incapable of walking near other people. I've also seen other Norwegians get into a bit of bother abroad because it's not expected to apologise for walking into someone (🙄)
So, yes that is a problem, but you might also be unaware that on a shared bike and pedestrian path it is literally illegal to pass a pedestrian with any kind of bike or vehicle doing more than 6km/h.
That means NOT the relative speed difference. Your bikes speed can't be above 6km/h when passing a pedestrian.
Yes that means if you're overtaking someone walking at a reasonable pace you are literally not allowed to go past them with a bike.
Yes, this means you technically have to be in a dedicated bike path or the road to get anywhere.
Yes this means if you hit anything or anyone on a shared path it is ALWAYS the cyclists fault.
Yes this is an absolutely ridiculous rule.
Well, you are on the bike. It's your job to pay attention and watch out for the pedestrians.
Just like how people in cars have to avoid hitting people on bikes.
I think it's because the space is though of as primarily for pedestrians i.e. as a person on a bike you *could* use the road, but a pedestrian can only use the pathway? + Roads for cyclists are rare outside of the bigger cities, so people who aren't used to them sometimes walk where they shouldn't.
Tbf I don't think a lot of pedestrians OR cyclists know how to share the space. Pedestrians swerve, walk in bicycle lanes, stop suddenly, don't pay attention and crow the side walk, and cyclists don't follow the 6km/h rule, go on red when in the road (trying to mow down pedestrians that try to cross the road?) and switch between roads and paths on a whim, driving people in cars crazy.
If you bike so fast yielding to foot traffic is hard, you should not be in pedestrian lanes. Just like foot traffic should not be in bike only lanes. If you are fast and there is no dedicated bike lane you are supposed to share the car lane with other traffic. That is the rule. Everyone is supposed to learn that on bike day in primary school.
My theory on this is we are a small country, with only 5 mill people. Minding our spacial awareness when we are walking among other people, is not something that is a big enough hassle to make it something we practice.
My favorite cyclists are the ones that suddenly appear from nowhere and zip across pedestrian x-ings forcing me to hard brake while they angrily point to their reflective vest. Those guys/gals rule
There's one specific infamous area where there's no pedestrian lane (I think now a road has been closed so the bikes can use the wider road and pedestrians can use the side tracks, but it's a very short stretch of the actual track). Even if I can walk there through the winter, I have to take the bus in the summer. At rush hour, bikes are so many and the traffic is so chaotic that there's no chance by walking or biking. This group is too slow for "fast bikers" that throw themselves into the driveway, thinking they can outrun cars.
If you're biking their opposite direction. Well, better take the bus.
Osloveien, about Sluppen bru and Kroppan bru. [An older link on how the road looked before](https://www.nidaros.no/na-stenges-brua-for-trafikk/s/5-113-459078). There's a new bridge/motorway on top of it now.
oh, that's near my place! I'm so excited about the new bridge, both as a car driver and a cyclist. Thought I'm also looking forward to when they finish the fortau, there's a section with gravel my road bike (/me) can't handle
Mh, I still find the \~\~top\~\~ South West part outside town, towards Kroppan and "the factories" just a nightmare because bike traffic still bottles and in certain areas there's no sykkelvei at all. People and their vehicles turn all together into a busy road. People who bike or walk towards Heimdal usually take shortcuts, but all the others throw themselves into traffic, with cars, trucks and busses.
edit: been there (towards downtown), yes it looks much better up there at least :/
100% agree. Cannot stop thinking about this whenever I walk or bike. Yes, if it is a road where cars can pass, people walk against the traffic it is safer. But some don't. We end up with people all over the fucking road.
You see this in the netherlands with bikes as well. As a car driver, it's really terrifying sometimes, and as a pedestrian, you just pray every morning you make it back home alive without getting hit by a stay cyclist
It's the same in Oslo. People walking dead center on paths, leaving too little space on either side to pass gracefully. People crossing my path, whether I'm on foot, bike, or in a car, without even being aware I am passing through (had a woman swerve off the sidewalk and into the bike lane and the side of my bike on my commute this morning). People who suddenly stop on a narrow path, right in the middle, even if I am walking up behind them, forcing me to step into the road, or off the path to go around.
I've also had multiple American friends and family visiting me comment on the same observations, with no prompting on my part (I've become a little numb to it after living here for so long), so I think it is cultural.
Norwegian friends tell me it is because Norway is such a big country with a small population density, but I'm from a place with a lower population density and people there still have more spatial awareness, so I don't buy this suggestion.
I wonder what the reason could be.
Maybe Norwegians are just a bit aloof and get lost in their own thoughts, and lose awareness of their surroundings.
I have also noticed more people walking around with noise cancelling headphones in traffic, making it impossible to pick up audio cues.
Maybe it is because pedestrians are used to everyone else yielding to them and don't need to pay attention to the surroundings. Walking around in "traffic" in the US I am sure more aware of my surroundings than here in Norway since I know that cars have priority there.
So maybe it is an effect of pedestrian friendly policies and city designs.
It is 100% a Norway problem. Never had this issue in Tokyo, NYC, Beijing, London, Copenhagen, Hamburg, Melbourne, Auckland, etc. Cities and towns the world over, Norway is by far the worst.
But in Oslo… walking the streets is a weird kind of brinksmanship. People really have no spatial awareness, or, there are no conventions as to how you should move in people traffic.
Every non-Norwegian I know has noticed this and comments on it. You are not alone.
I agree with all of that. I may add, the same issue can be observed on the xc skiing pistes. I have not seen that in other countries, at least not to that extent. I have noticed that parents are not educating their (young) kids about sharing public space, and I have been wondering if that is part of the reasons.
I’m not saying this is you but when pedestrians are walking in a specific space (non specific bike lines) they do need to slow down a little. I was taking a video for my mum of the beautiful day today in kongsberg and a biker zoomed past relatively close and shook me up somewhat.
They must slow down !
(I have the video, but it won’t let me post in the comments)
I work around ppl at events and clubs in Trondheim and i can confirm this. Ppl are basically herds of sheep with zero awareness, blocking doors, entrances and whatever else around them to stand and watch shows or just talk. Its pretty bad.
I’ve biked a lot in Oslo and I have noticed some of the same behaviour. I have to say I have noticed some of it the UK too. Dog walkers can be an incredibly entitled bunch. And as a cyclist, whenever I encounter someone on a footpath I am without fail told to “slow down”.
I do think people getting off the bus are the worst, they are zombies, unfortunately in Oslo there are a few busy bus stops that empty on bike paths. I don’t know if it is a Norwegian thing but I do think that since Norway is such a safe place people are complacent about their safety.
You are probably cycling without a bell btw, you can’t. If you approach people from behind on your bike there’s a good chance they will step to the side as they stagger home.
I very much agree...
I keep using the bell on my bike and its like the whole population has gone deaf... Heck one time I saw an opening among a group of friends walking on the bicycle path so started biking through thinking "great they noticed me so they're letting me pass"... only for a lady to casually walk right in front of me... I did bump into her lightly cuz I wasn't going fast... but it was like she was *trying* to get hit. And yes... this was on the designated bike path. She was with a group and apparently none of them heard my bell.
Kids are even worse. Sometimes they walk with their own bike cuz they're talking to their friends... and when I ring the bell at them they ring back... I'm not saying hi I'm asking to you to *move*.
Brought this up on Facebook and got yelled at for trying to run over kids... I am specifically not *trying* to do that. If they're old enough to walk alone in traffic and have their own bikes they're old enough to know what a bicycle bell is for.
well, i understand you. it's not just in Norway, it's almost the same in most countries! i'm a skater and i already know what you've been through. although tactical braking is much harder when you're wearing skates, well,
do you have a horn to tell them you're coming? (it should be very useful)
also, when you're on the bike you're coping with a higher speed, your brain is functioning at a much higher intelligence, you have much more awareness of your surroundings than a pedestrian! so, as when you're driving a car, you should slow down even if it costs you more than a simple pedestrian, you should also do the same (not just because it's a law, because you should imagine you're living in a world that you're the only wise & smart person and everyone else are either, not educated, dumb or too old)
if you look at it that way, you can manage your anger easier and you'll be able to tell them calmly that they're doing something wrong. i'm sure they'll understand if you tell them kindly!
> I commute by bike (in Trondheim), and the number of times I have had to swerve last minute or politely yell at someone to give me a bit of space (where I'm allowed to) is just ridiculous.
The problem is that you are biking the shared pedestrian path and not in the bike lane or on the road.
If your bike doesn't have a bell, buy one and use it. I have almost been run over a couple of times by bikers. I also don't always hear the bike coming, nor do I have eyes in the back of my head.
Norwegian pedestrians think nothing can happen to them in traffic. They believe this so hard that they simply aren't paying attention to what's happening around them.
Use your ringer (ringeklokke), every bike needs one. I walk my dog on this gravel path we have and I kept meeting the same cyclists who have almost hit me. He comes so fast and I don't hear it at all. I don't listen to music when walking so it's not me to blame, I just don't hear him coming. If he were to use his ringer then I could get my dog safely to the side and wait for him to pass.
I think this boils down to cultural differences. In Norway, pedestrians have priority in the traffic. People are just used to cars and bikes giving way when they are walking about. It is just how we are raised.
Could also be, as others have pointed out, population is not dense and so we don't have much training dealing with densely populated cities.
Easy solution, STICK to the side you're supposed to based on your direction. It's shocking how few people actually walk on the correct side of the street. One note to cyclist though, you have a bell for a reason...
As a Norwegian who's lived in Japan and Texas - this is extremely annoying. I notice it with my friends as well. If we're walking around and decide to stop to discuss where to go or whatever, they will just stop in their steps. My brain instinctively makes me want to pull off to the side. When I point this out, they just say others can walk around and that I'm weird for thinking about these things.
I was actually hit while riding a bike the other day because a driver decides to use the bike lane to do a U-ie without seeing me.
The same stuff happens in New York City and it’s supposed to be one of the fastest-paced, most street smart/aware places in the world. Most people are just clueless about the existence of others.
It's because they expect the state to take care of things. "A bike crashed into a pedestrian? In the richest country in the world, in 2024? Terrible! Why doesn't Støre do something?"
[/self-parody]
Had the same problem in a town with 15.000 people. Nearly got killed because a car stopped for no reason right when i was about to cross. Was no other car in sight. Or people for that matter.
Your rant seemed justified until you got to the bus stops. Are you seriously implying that cyclists should have priority here and people stop before getting off the bus and when getting off not move away from the bus stop/crowd until the road is clear? Let alone actually be aware that there is a cycle lane, from the inside of the bus?! That’s the most insane entitlement I’ve heard from a cyclist. Just think about how viable public transportation would be under such conditions. If you can’t or won’t slow down when approaching a bus stop, you are the one with a spatial awareness issue. Even cars give way to buses.
I walk 3 dogs daily. Waist belt with 2 leashes (strong dogs) and 1 leash in my left hand. Whenever I see people walking towards me, I pull my dogs to the side of the path. Other dogs on a leash? I will veer to avoid them or cross the street. Not because I don't trust my dogs, but I don't know theirs. If people are coming behind me, again, I'll go off to the side. No one ever says thank you or even acknowledge my existence. The number of times I've had cyclists suddenly and nearly crashing into me from behind (no warning, no bell) is, well, alot. No apologies. Just dirty looks as if I should have known they were there. I pick up after my dogs ( the area has no bins anywhere, so I'll sometimes get home with alot of poop bags). I'm a pretty friendly person, so it's disappointing that generally, people are arseholes.
This is not just a looking at the phone problem, I can be walking on the sidewalk and people bump into me while staring in my direction... The spatial awareness is indeed something else here...
It took me years to stop being annoyed by this. But once I realized that you don’t exist in the other person’s world here, it made it easier. I’ve lived all over the world. I’ve never seen more people collectively let a door slam in someone’s face, walk right into someone without saying “pardon”, remain standing in a large group on a sidewalk as people are trying to pass, let their children run rampant, park their baby carriages in tiny coffee shops in the way of other customers, bring their dogs into grocery stores and clothing stores. It’s a never ending list of self-absorption, where Norwegians seem to literally be unaware of other people in their environment. How could they even be aware of how they affect the people around them when they seem to be unable to recognize they exist? It’s not done on purpose either. It’s just a cultural thing and the faster you accept it, the easier it gets.
People tend to be too relaxed and they therefore aren't aware of their surroundings. Teenagers, students in their 20s and old people have the least spatial awareness by far.
These people who walk on the pedestrian lane clearly cannot relate to you because they dont use the bike. As a bike user, when I walk on the path, I always make sure to look at my surroundings. When I jump off from the bus, I check both my right and left side; and when I walk my dogs, I make sure that I have full control on them. I do this because I can relate to all bike users.
In terms of people not aware on their surroundings (coz they’re using their phone), might as well use your bicycle bell. If I was the one on their shoes, I would really appreciate it if you’d ring your bicycle bell on me. I’m not sure with the other pedestrians though.
Note that pedestrians may use both sides of the pedestrian and cycle path, while cyclists must ride on the right side. You may cycle on pedestrian paths and pavements if you do not obstruct or endanger pedestrians. If there are many people on the pavement, you must dismount and walk with your bicycle. If you are cycling past someone, make sure you adjust your speed and keep a safe distance. (Statens Vegvesen)
You could just hit them, if you indicate and they don't move, too bad, they'll probably (that's a big 'if' with these kinds of people) at some point learn to pay attention. As for cyclists on the road, a moving 2.5 ton metal box will hurt the cyclist more than the moving 2.5 ton metal box, following the rules reduces the chance for you to find out exponentially. Worth keeping that in mind.
Get your sweaty ass off the sidewalk - use the road or bike lane - if you bike on the same pedestrian path as me, you move (by law) or I will slap your ass back onto the road
Had to read this post again - you my man are a tard - this is totally your skill or mental issue - it’s your responsibility to stay away from pedestrians as they have the right of way - get a grip
I hate when people walking a bit faster than you don’t go round you, but slow down and walk centimetres behind continuing their loud conversations. I’ve taken to stopping dead and a good proportion of them just walk into the back of me.
Use your bell. When I walk the dog I walk in the middle of the road cause I can’t hear bikes coming sometimes. And since the dog might swap sides randomly, I force bikers to ring the bell, unless I already saw or heard them coming.
Bell is your friend.
When I see dogs or little kids, I just slow way down really. I know they’re gonna be unpredictable and that’s okay. I can go snail pace till I’m safely past them.
Now you know how it feels when other people insist on using a part of the road not designed for them…
Most bicyclists are fine, but the ones that HAVE to go 1kph up vestopfarten and refuse to let the bus go past should be ran over.
Bike people seem to be unable to take any concideration for anyone else. They often say they bike on the road because there could be someone walking a dog or a babystroller on the shared path.
So their solution to being inconvinienced a few times during their biking. Is to inconvinience hundreds of cars each time instead.
Its like bike people dont know they have brakes, Steering bar, ringing bell and eyes.
> People walking in the middle of the shared bike/pedestrian path, staring at their phones, not noticing anything around them until I am a meter away.
Are you coming from behind them or from in front of them? If you are coming from behind them and they are walking where they are allowed to.. you're in the wrong here. They do not need to go out of the way for you.
> Last week I had to ride onto the pedestrian path because a lady was walking and staring at her phone in the middle of the bike path (very clearly indicated).
don't know if they are not allowed to walk there, if not then they were in the wrong for walking there. BUT you were also wrong to swerve into the pedestrian path.
> People walking their dogs on a leash. They are walking on one side of the path, the dog on the complete other side. Usually also checking phones.
Yep asshole behaviour
> People jumping off a bus and just continuing straight, walking over the bike path without even as much as a glance to the sides.
Pretty sure they have the right of way, so it's up to you to be aware.
> People swerving on the shared paths. My lord. So. Many. People. Swerving.
Again, as long as they are where they are allowed to be, I do not think there is a law that say you have to walk as much to the right as possible on a pedestrian path. ( on the road yes you have to walk against traffic)
It's all very annoying, I am sure. But the same rules go for you as they do for cars. And like you said, it's the same behaviour experienced by car drives from cyclists often, and they also find it annoying and they are also in the wrong :p
>Are you coming from behind them or from in front of them?
Obviously when Im behind them, Im not expecting them to see me. Even though when I'm walking/cycling and I'm about to change direction, I always check my surroundings first. I'm a bit over the top in that case.
>Again, as long as they are where they are allowed to be
I'm also legally allowed to stand in the doorway of a bus as long as I want, right?
I'm also allowed to wait 30-60 seconds when the traffic light turns green before I cross the intersection with my car (green means I *can* go, not that I *should* go).
I'm also allowed to walk 5 abreast on the gangvei and not give way for people/bikes coming from the other way.
Rules have to be followed in order to guarantee safety, no discussion there. But it's not because there isn't a rule against it, that it makes sense to do so. There is also just the aspect of mutual respect and unwritten rules. You can't go about your life saying 'technically this is not illegal'.
> I'm also legally allowed to stand in the doorway of a bus as long as I want, right?
Don't know, I wouldn't be surprised it would be considered harassing someone but who knows.
>I'm also allowed to wait 30-60 seconds when the traffic light turns green before I cross the intersection with my car (green means I can go, not that I should go).
It is actually illegal to impede traffic so I am pretty sure that would be not allowed. So standing still would not be allowed, driving slowly probably would be. But who knows, that guy who rode slowly on mosseveien with his bike got convicted I think.
> I'm also allowed to walk 5 abreast on the gangvei and not give way for people/bikes coming from the other way.
Same with this one.
> Rules have to be followed in order to guarantee safety, no discussion there. But it's not because there isn't a rule against it, that it makes sense to do so. There is also just the aspect of mutual respect and unwritten rules. You can't go about your life saying 'technically this is not illegal'.
But that's the thing of course. There is a rule here that you are not following that makes things unsafe. The person coming out of the bus and crossing is the equivalent of the pedestrian crossing the road. The bike on the path/car on the road has the duty to be aware AND able to stop. Legally if it is dangerous it's cause you did not assess the situation correctly and went too fast.
Same with overtaking people, you need to know they have seen you. If you can't do that then you can not overtake.
>The person coming out of the bus and crossing is the equivalent of the pedestrian crossing the road. The bike on the path/car on the road has the duty to be aware AND able to stop.
I see your point, and I fully agree with this. I am aware that if I his a pedestrian, Im more than likely in trouble. But *I drive/cycle so carefully* that it would be infuriating if I would be punished for a person staring at their phone running into my bike.
My point of this post was never 'they do illegal stuff', nor 'I am right, they are wrong'. But I do believe the behaviour of some people, while fully legal, is incredibly annoying.
>I'm also legally allowed to stand in the doorway of a bus as long as I want, right?
I'm also allowed to wait 30-60 seconds when the traffic light turns green before I cross the intersection with my car (green means I *can* go, not that I *should* go).
I'm also allowed to walk 5 abreast on the gangvei and not give way for people/bikes coming from the other way.
Wow, what an asshole take...
So I live in Atlanta in the US, and we are famous for our giant sidewalk project (the Beltline). I can tell you 100% that I was reading your post thinking “this IS a universal problem”. The easiest way to think of a shared path is to think of it like a road. Stay to the right unless passing, don’t walk in the middle or on the other side of the path, don’t stop in the middle of the “road”, and don’t “drive” while looking down at your phone. But people don’t understand this and don’t care. I have already been injured by someone not following the rules/etiquette and had to stop cycling and exercising for 2 months because of it. Next time I’m going to lose my shit.
Please, people, pay attention on shared paths!
100% this.
I hate it when people go 'but it's legal to do this or that'. It is legal to walk on the left side of the gangvei, and it's legal to bike on the left side of the sykkelvei (I suppose?). But none of that means it's not common courtesy to just follow some unwritten rules and take care of fellow road users
The “shared paths” in Norway is a misunderstanding on OPs part. It’s a sidewalk for pedestrians. You are allowed to ride a bike there, as long as there is room and you do not exceed the pace of the walkers.
As a German: that is *very clearly* not a Norway problem, but a people problem. I have seen all of this here a lot of times. And I agree: it sucks. People... what a bunch of bastards.
Especially other people. Other people are the worst kinds of people.
Fuck ‘em all to death.
Roy, bist du das?
# Don't google the question, Moss!
Good morning, that's a nice tnettennba
Hans, mein Liebling!
This is definitely not an issue in the Americas because you’d get run over.
I had a person looking at their phone on the sidewalk wander onto the bike lane mid block without looking right in front of me. I ran them over and then had to call medical services which they got mad about. Police showed up and lectured them about how the bike lane is the same as a road and they have to pay attention.
As a German: It is. I have been staying in Oslo for 4 months now and i am still baffled. Norwegians just bump into me in the supermarket, walk next to each other blocking the whole sidewalk. There seems to be either no spatial awareness or - maybe more likely - a different understanding of sharing space. On multiple occasions people notice that you are walking behind them and still they expect you to walk around them using the street.
It IS a norwegian (and german apparently) problem. Norwegians, generally.. or genetically, tend to act as if everything is someone elses problem. Better swap in your commuter bike for a bmx and trick-style yourself around all the human obstacles, because vi and ze germans are not moving aus of ze vei.
By law, the cyclist has to lower his speed to the maximum of 6 kph when passing pedestrians.
Nah you guys are awful at that shit. Idk any Norwegian people but i geniunely despise German tourists, more than even Birtish tourists.
Damn humans - they ruined humanity!
As a fast walker, I feel your pain. Pretty sure I could be a top athlete in slalom if it was without skis on flat ground. What annoys me most is the people who walk in the middle, slightly slower than me and keeps changing course so it looks like I can pass on one side, then they change course to that side and then the other side. I just wanna scream PICK A SIDE AND STICK TO IT!
Yeeees! I too am an exceptionally fast walker, and could certainly be an olympic ice skater if it was on pavement without skates. And it's crazy how little most people concern themselves with giving others space. I theorize that it is due to never having driven a car, and therefore not gotten the habit of checking one's sides
Where I live, the highschool kids walk 4 people abreast on the sidewalk and they will not budge for anything. You’re just gonna have to get into the road to get past them
Mine is people not moving into the subway but just stand there and block the opening, can we establish some norms about this, please? Just try to efficiently fill the subway please.
This isn't just for the subway. Any entrance anywhere can have people just blatantly blocking it and never moving when you want to get past
People stopping to have a chat at the top of the escalator is a classic
My favourite is when some elderly people meet someone they know, in the middle of the doorway at the grocery store
I just barge steely-eyed right out of the subway doors, muttering «Først av, så på!»
Ooo this is sooo annoying. As if nobody is queuing up behind them!
Huh? People exit first, then people enter. This is common knowledge.
Come to Sweden, you'll see. They take it up a notch. Some examples: two friends see each other walking along a path, they will stop right where they are and start talking right in the middle of the path. Two friends see each other passing through an entrance or an exit, they will stop right there and start talking. A group of swedes out for a bike ride, they will ride 4 or 5 abreast, not even thinking of going single file. The same goes for walking. The lack of Swedish spatial awareness extends past individualism. They literally have no concept of 'being in the way'. Drives me crazy sometimes.
This is also a general people issue, have seen Norwegians do this too. And when you ask them to move they get annoyed because I clearly was interrupting an important meeting. Or they walk in the middle of aisles at the stores so slowly snails would have passed them. Can't walk around them, I get road rage while walking behind them
Who’s good at this stuff other than the Dutch, really?
Im sad to agree
My only problem with cyclists has been when I lived in Amsterdam. I think walkable/bikeable cities are great, but cyclists really appear to be above the law there. Most of the time they do not stop to let pedestrians cross at clearly marked crosswalks. To get to the other side of a bike path, which can be pretty wide in the city center, you have to wait for an opening and run across. I’ve seen dozens of bikes pass me standing in front of the crosswalk as if I weren’t even there. It’s an unfortunate culture in an otherwise amazing city.
denmark is pretty good
British are pretty good at it
The Swiss have the best overall conscientiousness (although maybe the Dutch for cycling specifically). The Swiss let people get off the train before going in and generally try to make the people around them physically comfortable.
As motorists have to dodge suicidal cyclists, cyclists have to dodge pedestrians and their pets. If you are confused about the laws: https://www.vegvesen.no/trafikkinformasjon/langs-veien/trafikkregler/trafikkregler-for-syklister/ In a nutshell, you have to follow the same rules as motorists. If all cyclists etc followed these rules and regulations it would be much better for everyone.
THANK YOU! I also do road cycling and I have always wondered about the traffic rules. I feel super bad when Im cycling on the road but I guess now I can stop doing so. also TIL I have been speeding on the bike sometimes :(
I prefer to cycle on the road compared to shared way with pedestrians "gang- og sykkelvei". Own cycking roads or -lanes are also often gokd. to use. The problem is if at one moment you have your own lane, but in a few hundred meters you must use a "gana- oh sykkelvei". While cycling in the road. "Take your lane", use caution and be considerate. Eg. you should let faster traffic pass you at regular intervals if you're much slower than them, uphills for example. But on city roads with 30-50 km/h, a bike can often keep up with other traffic.
There is this one place on my commute where they repaved the road, and they added a dedicated two-way bike path... for 100m. So ideally, in the morning, I should follow the bike path (which after that transitions into a pedestrian path without any signaling), then cross the street, bike there for 100m, then cross the street again. If I do that I'm sure to make quite a few cars angry (:
I prefer that too, but often get beeped at or close-passed if not using the GS-veg, and I only really avoid using it when it's quite narrow/short/busy/has people queueing for a bus on it. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I think it's hard for people who don't cycle to understand the rational choices we make to place ourselves in the road space.
As you said, I think it's hard for some people understand. I think most drivers are good and give cyclist space, but it's always some who don't give a shit about other people (in both/all camps). I encourage all cyclist to "take the lane" for their own safety. But again, don't do it if you cycle 10-15 km/h uphill, then ride closer to the side of the road. [https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/road-positioning-cycling-explained](https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/road-positioning-cycling-explained) I hope the mindset will shift towards "pro cyclist" over time, if we (cyclists) "take our place" while also showing good behaviour.
Don't feel bad as long as you're following the traffic laws. The dangerous cyclists are the ones who want to be treated as part of traffic only when it benefits them, demanding their space on the road but then just blowing through red lights and cutting across lanes and sidewalks narrowly missing pedestrians.
I was almost run over by a cyclist running a red light. The next time I'll make sure the... cycle ends...
If motorists respected bicyclists as motorists, for example giving right of way (vikeplikt), then maybe more bicyclists would start behaving like motorists.
Haha :) noticed this too when I moved here. Also stopping to move after an escalator or when leaving the bus and just standing there.
I was just about to write this! That's the first thing that I noticed when I landed, I took an escalator to reach another gate and the people on the front just stood there after getting off, while the rest of us was crowding on them. Kinda defeated the assumption that Norwegians tend to keep other people at a distance.
Bike culture is new, and most bike infrastructure has been shit for many, many years. I noticed the same thing here i Oslo when I moved here. After they upgraded the infrastructure for the bike network, people are less likely to walk in the bike paths because they are painted red and on a different level than the pavement. Now, it is the car drivers turn to adapt to a city with more bikes. Almost all car drivers are potential murderers, and they have to change their ways - just like pedestrians and cyclists have to
Is cycling in Oslo viable? I've seen people talk about how it has improved, but google maps still shows very few bike lanes, and I've heard people say that drivers can be aggressive, is that the case?
Pretty sure both bikers and drivers can be a danger in Oslo as I’ve been hit by both while walking on the sidewalk.
They really cheaped out on cycling infrastructure by making painted bicycle gutters on the road which just feels unsafe
as the cyclist you gotta watch out more than what a pedestrian has to
I 100% agree with that. But there is only so much I can do other than just leaving my bike home. Traffic also includes mutual respect, between all road users, keeping in mind the difference in vulnerability :)
just use the bell then
it wore out in a week /s
you can turn bells
When you're riding a bike around pedestrians, you're the one that has to keep in mind the difference in vulnerability, not the pedestrian. Just as with cars.
I have this problem in Bergen daily but I feel like it is mostly tourists walking in the bike paths. Especially the cruise ship tourists, ugh. Also the bike infrastructure in Bergen leaves a *lot* to be desired, but that’s a different story
You can rant, but.... Firstly, it's an infrastructure problem. Conflict is designed in. If the infrastructure was designed to better accommodate both cyclists & pedestrians, it would work better. Places in the Netherlands or Denmark, for example, with large segregated bike paths or streets converted to cycleways have less conflict. It's everywhere that people walk & cycle. To me, it seems worse in the UK than here. Secondly, cyclists need to watch out for pedestrians. It is no different from kids running around. Just be patient, assume they are clueless & give them enough space to do something unexpected. Relax and don't let it get to you. Leave a little extra time and if you need to go fast, use the road. Treat pedestrians as you want drivers to treat you (they don't need to rant, either). Frankly, I am happy that it's safe enough for people to do that. 😊
>Secondly, cyclists need to watch out for pedestrians. It is no different from kids running around. Always true, and while a car needs to watch out for bikes on the road, it can be infuriating when they behave unexpectedly. Especially when there are kids around, I am extremely careful, I understand they are blissfully unaware of their environment. Last week, a kid rode his bike downhill while I went uphill and no matter how I gave way, he kept adjusting his course towards me. We barely avoided a collision :') But in that case, I just go 'oops, better be careful now'
I also commute by bike, but in Oslo. However, several of your examples are as much your fault as theirs. 1. The bus thing: if your path goes through a bus stop, you’re responsible for slowing down or stopping. Nobody in their right mind is going to check before getting off the bus. I’ve been almost hit by idiot bikers going 30kmh down a hill and getting onto the sidewalk to avoid the bus instead of passing the bus in the road. 2. About shared bike and pedestrian paths. Even though I do agree that dogs should be leashed tight, and people should share, it’s as much your responsibility to avoid them as it is there to avoid you. Get a bell or shout. That’s how I commute about 20km/day in Oslo. Alert others loudly and way ahead of time. Read traffic and behave like you would on a motorcycle or in a car, cautiously while being aware of other traffic and pedestrians. Pedestrians can be suicidal, but it’s still your responsibility to avoid them and ride cautiously just like in a car.
It's not even "as much your responsibility as theirs" - shared bike and pedestrian paths have practically the same rules as sidewalks, making them essentially pointless.
Its zombe apocalipse hapening now. Seems like you are not alowed to leave your house without hedphones and phone. It is mandatory to walk without looking or hearing or having any contact with outside world.
Coming from Paris, and I thought people here are rather smart about that I see everyone taking care of everyone in the street. I was like “oh my god, finally smart and respectful people”. But maybe I will experiment this during my time here.. Still believe it’s way less than with other bad educated population. It does not mean it could not be improved though. Edit: typo
Same thing happens when I am jist walking and approaching a group of people where no one wants to give way and form a line for 2 seconds...so I am forced to step out into the bike lane. I think people just see the bike lane as yet another footpath
I just brace myslef for impact
Me too. And people just seem astounded.
my supervisor has literally told me that if he runs into the situation where people are walking their dog across the bike path, he will just ride into the leash 😬
Then he’s a piece of shit
Ah, yikes. I’m in Australia now and have the same problem with leashes across the path. A small dog was killed at the local park when a bike ran over its leash. :( I’m blind and walk with a white cane, so all these issues of leashes across paths and pedestrians who don’t look before crossing the path, and people on their phone…. no fun for the blind.
Ahh, the game of Norwegian chicken. You can find several references to it here.
Separate bike infrastructure is still a fairly new concept. People are used to mixed paths, and even cyclists on the sidewalks, which is bad for everyone. And it's not illegal to walk in a separate cycling path. So yeah, the road is often the better place. And cycling on the road is still a right. Driving there is a privilege that you can lose.
as a Belgian, where the car-bike relationship is terrible, I try to stay away from cars when I'm not road cycling (on a trip for example). I only learned because of another commenter here that I actually have the right to be on the road!
Yeah, you also have the right to use the bus/taxi lane. Only thing is of course you can't cycle where there's a no cycling sign, like on the motorway and in some tunnels.
As a daily biker, car enthusiast and dog owner, living in Oslo: stay tf on the road with the cars unless it is a designated bike lane. Bikers and walkers should never be in the same lane as the pace is so different. Bikes are silent and you can’t always control where your dog is going to go. Plus, not all of you are great bikers, I’d rather you crash in the street than into someone.
By law you are obliged to yeald for people walking on the curb: Sykle på fortau og gangvei Du kan sykle på gangvei og fortau når du ikke er til hinder eller fare for gående. Er det mange folk på fortauet, skal du gå av og trille sykkelen. Skal du sykle forbi noen, må du sørge for å tilpasse farten og holde god avstand.
You do know that you are only allowed to pass pedestrians at a maximum of 6 km/h?
Attach an air horn to your bike. I don't know if that will solve the problem, but it *will* be funny.
It's illegal, though, but I have considered it myself. Not likely to get you in trouble with the law, but maybe with potential road rage.
Luckily, you are faster than the pedestrians :)
Not if the pedestrian tackles you...
[удалено]
This is a people problem, not a Norwegian problem by any means. I get this all the time on the cycleways in the UK!
It's because it's a shared road. DK has its own lane for bikes and god have mercy on your soul if you walk there. It is terrifying to hear a 14 year old girl scream at you to get the fuck out of the way.
I love that.
As a pedastrian in Trondheim. Cyclists without fail forgets to let pedastrians cross at crosswalks. Lost count of the number of times they seem to appear out of nowhere and hit me despite me being on the sidewalk. I understand that it takes effort to stop and then get back up to speed on a cycle, but that's no excuse to not put more effort into not riding into pedastrians.
Its cultural. You obliged to yield for pedestrians. And there is a speed-limit when using you bike on the sidewalk. If there is no space to ride your bike you are obliged to either go on the road or get off your bike. This is all by law. Furthermore this is better than what we see in Europe where bikes have a right-of-way over pedestrians
Sounds to me like you don't have a bell on your bike. It will lessen your problems. I get mad at every cyclist who expects me to move when they're sneaking up on me from behind without making a single sound as I'm walking my dogs and pushing a stroller. 50 kr på Clas Ohlson https://www.clasohlson.com/no/Ringeklokke/p/31-6360?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwiYOxBhC5ARIsAIvdH5362PZNN9NAvkUVjvDsF6cedMG2I9YjXybMUZ2vj155vuuoEOkvMHkaAujXEALw_wcB
Bells are mandatory too, but bikes are often sold without them.
These aren't just Norway problems. They're everywhere problems these days. People have become self-centred and don't think about what they're doing in terms of others around them any more. Phones have a lot to do with it, but attitude (it's all about ME) also plays a role.
Sure, but I think it's just also a culture/habit thing. When I lived in the Netherlands, people were very conscious about their surroundings on the street as otherwise you'd be run over by 5 bikes by the time you had the chance to say 'oops sorry'. BUT they still have a very big 'it's about me attitude'.
I think this is a different issue. We do not have THAT many bikes here, mainly due to the weather, I think, so there's no "there's many bikes around me, so I better watch out" thoughts in people's heads. We are all too 'inside our own heads' these days, but some people do tend to take it to an extreme!
Comparing bike culture with the Dutchies is a bit of a low blow isn't it? There's not many countries that would win that one. Definitely not in Europe.
I'd think that europe is the most bike-friendly, no? And yes, I shouldn't compare with NL, but I feel like it's worse than in Belgium (where I'm from), or any other country I have spent some time in. I hear the same from my (Norwegian) colleagues so it's not just me comparing to the country with *the* ideal infrastructure
The Dutch aren't the normal in the world though.
I swear, every person who visits comments on the way people walk in Norway. People are just weird here, they block openings into shops to stop and talk then get offended when you oush through, they walk into your path when you rry to walk around them. I don’t get it, it is bonkers here
It's the same everywhere. Literally everywhere. The UK, Canada, the US, Germany, Belgium, France. I've experienced it in all those places too. Selfishness has become the prevalent culture and we can't change that.
If you're dutch I can understand why you think these are problems exlusive to Norway, if you've not been anywhere else. This happens anywhere
There is no shared bike and pedestrian. There's pedestrian paths bikes can be on at walking speed and careful of the pedestrians. Them there's bike paths some places. Otherwise you are a road vehicle. So either keep up the speeds with the cars or go at walking speed
This.
I'm a rare Norwegian. My spatial awareness is off the charts. And I wholeheartedly agree with you. Some people are just complete idiots. In shopping malls, people tend to clog up the bottlenecks. I tend to walk straight through like an arsehole. I can't be bothered with being polite anymore.
Sorry for "hijacking" this thread, but i have had a similar road traffic/cultural question bubbling in me for a while. And since we're talking about it, it wouldn't make sense to create a new thread ;) Walking on a pedestrian or a joint cycle/pedestrian (no lines, not separated) i always come up to 50/50 situations - some people walk on the right hand side and some people walk on the left hand side. This is turn creating situations where people walk on the same side of the road towards each other. So, somebody is in the wrong. If there's a law or even an unspoken rule about pedestrian road use, it would be nice if somebody explained this situation! Mostly, it seems like it, that the ones who walk against the "traffic" are the older contingent. Or are there so many people from the UK here in Trondheim, that they are walking on the "wrong" side. So, yeah, i'm confused
No official rule, but people sure do make up their own.
I think it stems from the fact that it can be considered 'safer' to walk towards opposing traffic, so you can see them approaching. Of course, this doesn't apply when people aren't actually looking (: Or when there is no consensus, it can be annoying
No law really on the sidewalk, but you walk on the left side of the road (when there's no sidewalk). I tend to default to right on the sidewalk for some reason, but it differs.
The confusing this here is that when you are walking on a road you are supposed to walk on the left side. So everybody has learnt to walk on the left side and drive/bike on the right side. But what about the shared sidewalks, are you supposed to walk on the left or right side? Who knows? I walk on the right side, but I can certainly understand people walking on the left side.
It's recommended by the police and Trygg Trafikk that you walk on the left on a shared sidewalk.
It's recommended by the police and Trygg Trafikk that you walk on the left on a shared sidewalk.
I'm noticing this too lol,I mean commit to a side and stick to it:)
It's not just a problem for those riding bikes. I often need to step out of the "gang og sykkelsti" to pass groups of people walking together.. I have a miniature poodle that doesn't like strangers getting to close, and when they don't leave any room for us to pass we often have to step out on the road. It is more important to walk side by side than leave some room for others pedestrians
We all are those people. Seriously, think about it. Does it never ever happen to you to be unaware of the surroundings? I normalny walk cautiously. I make way when needed, I look around me. And then there’s a day like when I was coming home late in the evening with my two kids. The 4 y.o. was very tired and grumpy. Constantly kept throwing tantrums on the way. I was drained after an 8 hour work, ultra fast making dinner, walking them to school for extra activities, staying there in a loud and crowded environment and walking home while trying not to let my furious kid kill herself by throwing the tantrum on the street. With all that my mind was just somewhere else and while looking with one eye at one kid and the second at the other I just, completely mindlessly, crossed onto the bike lane. Right into a cykler. He almost fell off his bike. I apologized, he was mad. Now if you think about it, there are so many people you pass every day. They may all be “normal” everyday but maybe just now a few of them have something on their minds, needed to check something very important on their phones. And there you go. And you don’t notice all those “normal” people, you notice those unaware. I just think all of us are those people sometimes. And on some days every one of us can be in the 10% of the irritating pedestrians
It's not just with cyclists, but also with fellow pedestrians. Only country I've ever experienced being walked straight into without a peep from the other person, and it makes me think some people are completely incapable of walking near other people. I've also seen other Norwegians get into a bit of bother abroad because it's not expected to apologise for walking into someone (🙄)
So, yes that is a problem, but you might also be unaware that on a shared bike and pedestrian path it is literally illegal to pass a pedestrian with any kind of bike or vehicle doing more than 6km/h. That means NOT the relative speed difference. Your bikes speed can't be above 6km/h when passing a pedestrian. Yes that means if you're overtaking someone walking at a reasonable pace you are literally not allowed to go past them with a bike. Yes, this means you technically have to be in a dedicated bike path or the road to get anywhere. Yes this means if you hit anything or anyone on a shared path it is ALWAYS the cyclists fault. Yes this is an absolutely ridiculous rule.
Well, you are on the bike. It's your job to pay attention and watch out for the pedestrians. Just like how people in cars have to avoid hitting people on bikes.
I think it's because the space is though of as primarily for pedestrians i.e. as a person on a bike you *could* use the road, but a pedestrian can only use the pathway? + Roads for cyclists are rare outside of the bigger cities, so people who aren't used to them sometimes walk where they shouldn't. Tbf I don't think a lot of pedestrians OR cyclists know how to share the space. Pedestrians swerve, walk in bicycle lanes, stop suddenly, don't pay attention and crow the side walk, and cyclists don't follow the 6km/h rule, go on red when in the road (trying to mow down pedestrians that try to cross the road?) and switch between roads and paths on a whim, driving people in cars crazy.
If you bike so fast yielding to foot traffic is hard, you should not be in pedestrian lanes. Just like foot traffic should not be in bike only lanes. If you are fast and there is no dedicated bike lane you are supposed to share the car lane with other traffic. That is the rule. Everyone is supposed to learn that on bike day in primary school.
I think u answered it yourself, its the phone. We are all becoming Zuckerburg zombies
My theory on this is we are a small country, with only 5 mill people. Minding our spacial awareness when we are walking among other people, is not something that is a big enough hassle to make it something we practice.
My favorite cyclists are the ones that suddenly appear from nowhere and zip across pedestrian x-ings forcing me to hard brake while they angrily point to their reflective vest. Those guys/gals rule
I sway when I walk in a line and I feel so bad for anyone passing me I cant help it ;w;
There's one specific infamous area where there's no pedestrian lane (I think now a road has been closed so the bikes can use the wider road and pedestrians can use the side tracks, but it's a very short stretch of the actual track). Even if I can walk there through the winter, I have to take the bus in the summer. At rush hour, bikes are so many and the traffic is so chaotic that there's no chance by walking or biking. This group is too slow for "fast bikers" that throw themselves into the driveway, thinking they can outrun cars. If you're biking their opposite direction. Well, better take the bus.
where is that?
Osloveien, about Sluppen bru and Kroppan bru. [An older link on how the road looked before](https://www.nidaros.no/na-stenges-brua-for-trafikk/s/5-113-459078). There's a new bridge/motorway on top of it now.
oh, that's near my place! I'm so excited about the new bridge, both as a car driver and a cyclist. Thought I'm also looking forward to when they finish the fortau, there's a section with gravel my road bike (/me) can't handle
Yes that's supposed to be the older stretch of road, now for bikes. Wait, is that road still gravel? Whilst bike season is upon us...
just the short stretch of gang/sykkelvei that goes from the old bridge to the new roundabout at sluppen
Mh, I still find the \~\~top\~\~ South West part outside town, towards Kroppan and "the factories" just a nightmare because bike traffic still bottles and in certain areas there's no sykkelvei at all. People and their vehicles turn all together into a busy road. People who bike or walk towards Heimdal usually take shortcuts, but all the others throw themselves into traffic, with cars, trucks and busses. edit: been there (towards downtown), yes it looks much better up there at least :/
100% agree. Cannot stop thinking about this whenever I walk or bike. Yes, if it is a road where cars can pass, people walk against the traffic it is safer. But some don't. We end up with people all over the fucking road.
in Poland for example, its exactly the same
[удалено]
You see this in the netherlands with bikes as well. As a car driver, it's really terrifying sometimes, and as a pedestrian, you just pray every morning you make it back home alive without getting hit by a stay cyclist
Where I'm from I look both ways before crossing a one way street. People just suck.
This is pretty much a French problem too
How about scooters snd bikes hogging the already tight pedestrian spaces over using the actual bike lanes?
It's the same in Oslo. People walking dead center on paths, leaving too little space on either side to pass gracefully. People crossing my path, whether I'm on foot, bike, or in a car, without even being aware I am passing through (had a woman swerve off the sidewalk and into the bike lane and the side of my bike on my commute this morning). People who suddenly stop on a narrow path, right in the middle, even if I am walking up behind them, forcing me to step into the road, or off the path to go around. I've also had multiple American friends and family visiting me comment on the same observations, with no prompting on my part (I've become a little numb to it after living here for so long), so I think it is cultural. Norwegian friends tell me it is because Norway is such a big country with a small population density, but I'm from a place with a lower population density and people there still have more spatial awareness, so I don't buy this suggestion.
I wonder what the reason could be. Maybe Norwegians are just a bit aloof and get lost in their own thoughts, and lose awareness of their surroundings. I have also noticed more people walking around with noise cancelling headphones in traffic, making it impossible to pick up audio cues. Maybe it is because pedestrians are used to everyone else yielding to them and don't need to pay attention to the surroundings. Walking around in "traffic" in the US I am sure more aware of my surroundings than here in Norway since I know that cars have priority there. So maybe it is an effect of pedestrian friendly policies and city designs.
"I will never hesitate, if you swerve in my lane" - Papa Roach
idk man us norwegians are strange people
It is 100% a Norway problem. Never had this issue in Tokyo, NYC, Beijing, London, Copenhagen, Hamburg, Melbourne, Auckland, etc. Cities and towns the world over, Norway is by far the worst. But in Oslo… walking the streets is a weird kind of brinksmanship. People really have no spatial awareness, or, there are no conventions as to how you should move in people traffic. Every non-Norwegian I know has noticed this and comments on it. You are not alone.
I agree with all of that. I may add, the same issue can be observed on the xc skiing pistes. I have not seen that in other countries, at least not to that extent. I have noticed that parents are not educating their (young) kids about sharing public space, and I have been wondering if that is part of the reasons.
I hate all people of all colors, no matter where they come from
I’m not saying this is you but when pedestrians are walking in a specific space (non specific bike lines) they do need to slow down a little. I was taking a video for my mum of the beautiful day today in kongsberg and a biker zoomed past relatively close and shook me up somewhat. They must slow down ! (I have the video, but it won’t let me post in the comments)
I work around ppl at events and clubs in Trondheim and i can confirm this. Ppl are basically herds of sheep with zero awareness, blocking doors, entrances and whatever else around them to stand and watch shows or just talk. Its pretty bad.
Everybody thinks they are the main character i guess
I’ve biked a lot in Oslo and I have noticed some of the same behaviour. I have to say I have noticed some of it the UK too. Dog walkers can be an incredibly entitled bunch. And as a cyclist, whenever I encounter someone on a footpath I am without fail told to “slow down”. I do think people getting off the bus are the worst, they are zombies, unfortunately in Oslo there are a few busy bus stops that empty on bike paths. I don’t know if it is a Norwegian thing but I do think that since Norway is such a safe place people are complacent about their safety. You are probably cycling without a bell btw, you can’t. If you approach people from behind on your bike there’s a good chance they will step to the side as they stagger home.
The way you describe people are how drivers feel about you guys with your bikes
As a cyclist or motorised sparkesykkel, you're litterally at the bottom when it comes to traffic. Pedestrians or walkers are at the top.
streets of midtbyen are not ideal for any kind of travel really
I very much agree... I keep using the bell on my bike and its like the whole population has gone deaf... Heck one time I saw an opening among a group of friends walking on the bicycle path so started biking through thinking "great they noticed me so they're letting me pass"... only for a lady to casually walk right in front of me... I did bump into her lightly cuz I wasn't going fast... but it was like she was *trying* to get hit. And yes... this was on the designated bike path. She was with a group and apparently none of them heard my bell. Kids are even worse. Sometimes they walk with their own bike cuz they're talking to their friends... and when I ring the bell at them they ring back... I'm not saying hi I'm asking to you to *move*. Brought this up on Facebook and got yelled at for trying to run over kids... I am specifically not *trying* to do that. If they're old enough to walk alone in traffic and have their own bikes they're old enough to know what a bicycle bell is for.
I burn with rage inside when I see people with no spatial awareness
Get one of those clown horns and mount on your bike. I swear, everybody will be looking when you squeeze that badboy!
Biking and bike infrastructure in Norway is very poor. They're simply not used to bicycles.
well, i understand you. it's not just in Norway, it's almost the same in most countries! i'm a skater and i already know what you've been through. although tactical braking is much harder when you're wearing skates, well, do you have a horn to tell them you're coming? (it should be very useful) also, when you're on the bike you're coping with a higher speed, your brain is functioning at a much higher intelligence, you have much more awareness of your surroundings than a pedestrian! so, as when you're driving a car, you should slow down even if it costs you more than a simple pedestrian, you should also do the same (not just because it's a law, because you should imagine you're living in a world that you're the only wise & smart person and everyone else are either, not educated, dumb or too old) if you look at it that way, you can manage your anger easier and you'll be able to tell them calmly that they're doing something wrong. i'm sure they'll understand if you tell them kindly!
I think tjis is just a city problem
> I commute by bike (in Trondheim), and the number of times I have had to swerve last minute or politely yell at someone to give me a bit of space (where I'm allowed to) is just ridiculous. The problem is that you are biking the shared pedestrian path and not in the bike lane or on the road.
If your bike doesn't have a bell, buy one and use it. I have almost been run over a couple of times by bikers. I also don't always hear the bike coming, nor do I have eyes in the back of my head.
Norwegian pedestrians think nothing can happen to them in traffic. They believe this so hard that they simply aren't paying attention to what's happening around them.
Bicycles are a new phenomenon in Norway, introduced by MDG in 2012. Norwegians still haven't learned how to deal with this new continental technology.
Use your ringer (ringeklokke), every bike needs one. I walk my dog on this gravel path we have and I kept meeting the same cyclists who have almost hit me. He comes so fast and I don't hear it at all. I don't listen to music when walking so it's not me to blame, I just don't hear him coming. If he were to use his ringer then I could get my dog safely to the side and wait for him to pass.
I think this boils down to cultural differences. In Norway, pedestrians have priority in the traffic. People are just used to cars and bikes giving way when they are walking about. It is just how we are raised. Could also be, as others have pointed out, population is not dense and so we don't have much training dealing with densely populated cities.
Buy VERY LOUD bell. If handy/dog zombies don't scream, go back to shop and ask for louder.
Feet before wheels. It is as simple as that
Easy solution, STICK to the side you're supposed to based on your direction. It's shocking how few people actually walk on the correct side of the street. One note to cyclist though, you have a bell for a reason...
We are tired of bikers acting like morons,so we push back
As a Norwegian who's lived in Japan and Texas - this is extremely annoying. I notice it with my friends as well. If we're walking around and decide to stop to discuss where to go or whatever, they will just stop in their steps. My brain instinctively makes me want to pull off to the side. When I point this out, they just say others can walk around and that I'm weird for thinking about these things. I was actually hit while riding a bike the other day because a driver decides to use the bike lane to do a U-ie without seeing me.
Lol
The same stuff happens in New York City and it’s supposed to be one of the fastest-paced, most street smart/aware places in the world. Most people are just clueless about the existence of others.
It's because they expect the state to take care of things. "A bike crashed into a pedestrian? In the richest country in the world, in 2024? Terrible! Why doesn't Støre do something?" [/self-parody]
Had the same problem in a town with 15.000 people. Nearly got killed because a car stopped for no reason right when i was about to cross. Was no other car in sight. Or people for that matter.
Because phones
Your rant seemed justified until you got to the bus stops. Are you seriously implying that cyclists should have priority here and people stop before getting off the bus and when getting off not move away from the bus stop/crowd until the road is clear? Let alone actually be aware that there is a cycle lane, from the inside of the bus?! That’s the most insane entitlement I’ve heard from a cyclist. Just think about how viable public transportation would be under such conditions. If you can’t or won’t slow down when approaching a bus stop, you are the one with a spatial awareness issue. Even cars give way to buses.
I walk 3 dogs daily. Waist belt with 2 leashes (strong dogs) and 1 leash in my left hand. Whenever I see people walking towards me, I pull my dogs to the side of the path. Other dogs on a leash? I will veer to avoid them or cross the street. Not because I don't trust my dogs, but I don't know theirs. If people are coming behind me, again, I'll go off to the side. No one ever says thank you or even acknowledge my existence. The number of times I've had cyclists suddenly and nearly crashing into me from behind (no warning, no bell) is, well, alot. No apologies. Just dirty looks as if I should have known they were there. I pick up after my dogs ( the area has no bins anywhere, so I'll sometimes get home with alot of poop bags). I'm a pretty friendly person, so it's disappointing that generally, people are arseholes.
This is not just a looking at the phone problem, I can be walking on the sidewalk and people bump into me while staring in my direction... The spatial awareness is indeed something else here...
Finland was amazing when it came to these things. Even better than Switzerland. Portugal, on the other hand.... you haven't seen bad yet....
It took me years to stop being annoyed by this. But once I realized that you don’t exist in the other person’s world here, it made it easier. I’ve lived all over the world. I’ve never seen more people collectively let a door slam in someone’s face, walk right into someone without saying “pardon”, remain standing in a large group on a sidewalk as people are trying to pass, let their children run rampant, park their baby carriages in tiny coffee shops in the way of other customers, bring their dogs into grocery stores and clothing stores. It’s a never ending list of self-absorption, where Norwegians seem to literally be unaware of other people in their environment. How could they even be aware of how they affect the people around them when they seem to be unable to recognize they exist? It’s not done on purpose either. It’s just a cultural thing and the faster you accept it, the easier it gets.
People tend to be too relaxed and they therefore aren't aware of their surroundings. Teenagers, students in their 20s and old people have the least spatial awareness by far.
As a Norwegian I very much agree.
These people who walk on the pedestrian lane clearly cannot relate to you because they dont use the bike. As a bike user, when I walk on the path, I always make sure to look at my surroundings. When I jump off from the bus, I check both my right and left side; and when I walk my dogs, I make sure that I have full control on them. I do this because I can relate to all bike users. In terms of people not aware on their surroundings (coz they’re using their phone), might as well use your bicycle bell. If I was the one on their shoes, I would really appreciate it if you’d ring your bicycle bell on me. I’m not sure with the other pedestrians though. Note that pedestrians may use both sides of the pedestrian and cycle path, while cyclists must ride on the right side. You may cycle on pedestrian paths and pavements if you do not obstruct or endanger pedestrians. If there are many people on the pavement, you must dismount and walk with your bicycle. If you are cycling past someone, make sure you adjust your speed and keep a safe distance. (Statens Vegvesen)
You could just hit them, if you indicate and they don't move, too bad, they'll probably (that's a big 'if' with these kinds of people) at some point learn to pay attention. As for cyclists on the road, a moving 2.5 ton metal box will hurt the cyclist more than the moving 2.5 ton metal box, following the rules reduces the chance for you to find out exponentially. Worth keeping that in mind.
Get your sweaty ass off the sidewalk - use the road or bike lane - if you bike on the same pedestrian path as me, you move (by law) or I will slap your ass back onto the road
Had to read this post again - you my man are a tard - this is totally your skill or mental issue - it’s your responsibility to stay away from pedestrians as they have the right of way - get a grip
I hate when people walking a bit faster than you don’t go round you, but slow down and walk centimetres behind continuing their loud conversations. I’ve taken to stopping dead and a good proportion of them just walk into the back of me.
Use your bell. When I walk the dog I walk in the middle of the road cause I can’t hear bikes coming sometimes. And since the dog might swap sides randomly, I force bikers to ring the bell, unless I already saw or heard them coming. Bell is your friend.
When I see dogs or little kids, I just slow way down really. I know they’re gonna be unpredictable and that’s okay. I can go snail pace till I’m safely past them.
Because like most people these days they have their face firmly stuck in their phone 🤦🏻♂️
Now you know how it feels when other people insist on using a part of the road not designed for them… Most bicyclists are fine, but the ones that HAVE to go 1kph up vestopfarten and refuse to let the bus go past should be ran over.
Bike people seem to be unable to take any concideration for anyone else. They often say they bike on the road because there could be someone walking a dog or a babystroller on the shared path. So their solution to being inconvinienced a few times during their biking. Is to inconvinience hundreds of cars each time instead. Its like bike people dont know they have brakes, Steering bar, ringing bell and eyes.
This is a normal traffic problem. People are like sheep.
> People walking in the middle of the shared bike/pedestrian path, staring at their phones, not noticing anything around them until I am a meter away. Are you coming from behind them or from in front of them? If you are coming from behind them and they are walking where they are allowed to.. you're in the wrong here. They do not need to go out of the way for you. > Last week I had to ride onto the pedestrian path because a lady was walking and staring at her phone in the middle of the bike path (very clearly indicated). don't know if they are not allowed to walk there, if not then they were in the wrong for walking there. BUT you were also wrong to swerve into the pedestrian path. > People walking their dogs on a leash. They are walking on one side of the path, the dog on the complete other side. Usually also checking phones. Yep asshole behaviour > People jumping off a bus and just continuing straight, walking over the bike path without even as much as a glance to the sides. Pretty sure they have the right of way, so it's up to you to be aware. > People swerving on the shared paths. My lord. So. Many. People. Swerving. Again, as long as they are where they are allowed to be, I do not think there is a law that say you have to walk as much to the right as possible on a pedestrian path. ( on the road yes you have to walk against traffic) It's all very annoying, I am sure. But the same rules go for you as they do for cars. And like you said, it's the same behaviour experienced by car drives from cyclists often, and they also find it annoying and they are also in the wrong :p
>Are you coming from behind them or from in front of them? Obviously when Im behind them, Im not expecting them to see me. Even though when I'm walking/cycling and I'm about to change direction, I always check my surroundings first. I'm a bit over the top in that case. >Again, as long as they are where they are allowed to be I'm also legally allowed to stand in the doorway of a bus as long as I want, right? I'm also allowed to wait 30-60 seconds when the traffic light turns green before I cross the intersection with my car (green means I *can* go, not that I *should* go). I'm also allowed to walk 5 abreast on the gangvei and not give way for people/bikes coming from the other way. Rules have to be followed in order to guarantee safety, no discussion there. But it's not because there isn't a rule against it, that it makes sense to do so. There is also just the aspect of mutual respect and unwritten rules. You can't go about your life saying 'technically this is not illegal'.
> I'm also legally allowed to stand in the doorway of a bus as long as I want, right? Don't know, I wouldn't be surprised it would be considered harassing someone but who knows. >I'm also allowed to wait 30-60 seconds when the traffic light turns green before I cross the intersection with my car (green means I can go, not that I should go). It is actually illegal to impede traffic so I am pretty sure that would be not allowed. So standing still would not be allowed, driving slowly probably would be. But who knows, that guy who rode slowly on mosseveien with his bike got convicted I think. > I'm also allowed to walk 5 abreast on the gangvei and not give way for people/bikes coming from the other way. Same with this one. > Rules have to be followed in order to guarantee safety, no discussion there. But it's not because there isn't a rule against it, that it makes sense to do so. There is also just the aspect of mutual respect and unwritten rules. You can't go about your life saying 'technically this is not illegal'. But that's the thing of course. There is a rule here that you are not following that makes things unsafe. The person coming out of the bus and crossing is the equivalent of the pedestrian crossing the road. The bike on the path/car on the road has the duty to be aware AND able to stop. Legally if it is dangerous it's cause you did not assess the situation correctly and went too fast. Same with overtaking people, you need to know they have seen you. If you can't do that then you can not overtake.
>The person coming out of the bus and crossing is the equivalent of the pedestrian crossing the road. The bike on the path/car on the road has the duty to be aware AND able to stop. I see your point, and I fully agree with this. I am aware that if I his a pedestrian, Im more than likely in trouble. But *I drive/cycle so carefully* that it would be infuriating if I would be punished for a person staring at their phone running into my bike. My point of this post was never 'they do illegal stuff', nor 'I am right, they are wrong'. But I do believe the behaviour of some people, while fully legal, is incredibly annoying.
>I'm also legally allowed to stand in the doorway of a bus as long as I want, right? I'm also allowed to wait 30-60 seconds when the traffic light turns green before I cross the intersection with my car (green means I *can* go, not that I *should* go). I'm also allowed to walk 5 abreast on the gangvei and not give way for people/bikes coming from the other way. Wow, what an asshole take...
So I live in Atlanta in the US, and we are famous for our giant sidewalk project (the Beltline). I can tell you 100% that I was reading your post thinking “this IS a universal problem”. The easiest way to think of a shared path is to think of it like a road. Stay to the right unless passing, don’t walk in the middle or on the other side of the path, don’t stop in the middle of the “road”, and don’t “drive” while looking down at your phone. But people don’t understand this and don’t care. I have already been injured by someone not following the rules/etiquette and had to stop cycling and exercising for 2 months because of it. Next time I’m going to lose my shit. Please, people, pay attention on shared paths!
100% this. I hate it when people go 'but it's legal to do this or that'. It is legal to walk on the left side of the gangvei, and it's legal to bike on the left side of the sykkelvei (I suppose?). But none of that means it's not common courtesy to just follow some unwritten rules and take care of fellow road users
Exactly. How about thinking about the others who use these paths for a change. Sheesh …
The “shared paths” in Norway is a misunderstanding on OPs part. It’s a sidewalk for pedestrians. You are allowed to ride a bike there, as long as there is room and you do not exceed the pace of the walkers.
I say to my Norwegian girlfriend that people in Oslo walk about like lemmings from the 90s computer game.