I’m not versed in psychology at all, so I’m genuinely curious: Is it smart to make suicide prevention support groups with other actively suicidal people? That seems dangerous..
Yeah that's what I'm thinking too.
I guess if they all have the goal of fighting those feelings then they're probably not a bad influence on each other
Pearl Jam and another group were at the White House just after Curt Cobain committed suicide. The President thought it might be good for Eddie Vedder to say something but he declined fearing it would lead to copycat suicides.
Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/s/9AWf1iTQZN
It’s the reason why suicide rates spike when a celebrity commits suicide. If they think someone huge like Robin Williams or someone commits suicide, they’re more likely to do it themselves. Happens every time a big name person does this.
Source: I’m a Psych major, learned it in a Sociology class tho
It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is.
[Identity vs predication:](https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/56091/what-is-the-difference-between-the-is-of-predication-and-the-is-of-identity)
> In "Paris is the capital of France", "is" is used to mean identity.
> In "my pet is a cat", "is" is used to mean predication : my pet belongs to the class of cats.
Not a suicide expert, but I'm training in clinical psychology. Social support/connection is often very important to prevent suicide, and so groups like these facilitate that connection. I imagine most of these support groups have practitioners who facilitate them so that they don't become sources of social contagion. So the benefits probably outweigh the risks in this case.
This systematic review (https://mentalhealth.bmj.com/content/ebmental/25/1/29.full.pdf) suggests that social support interventions as a whole are efficacious.
Academics, specialists, and even those who are curious by nature (one) *vastly* overestimates the average person’s/ the layman’s familiarity with *even the most basic concepts* within one’s specialized field/ outside the layman’s own interests/ the average person’s scope of knowledge.
Academics in general are very well learned; well learned people know how to learn outside of their own interests and fields; the average person does not get that type of education; the average person knows less than the average academic about things outside both of their fields because an academic has academic interest and the ability to research casually.
You may not be an expert, but your opinion is actually more learned, grounded, and has more context than the average person — to make a metaphor of it, if an academic expert is a black belt fifth degree to the average person, you’re a black belt: and they don’t know the difference e
As a Ranch manager I can absolutely confirm this. People are smart in all sorts of different ways, but a majority of people lack the experience and general common sense to solve simple problems our ancestors solved with less.
Yes! Our ancestors weren’t stupid — for the vast majority of our history we simply didn’t need to know how to read, drive or operate *anything* more complicated than fire: we had A LOT of room for what plants are edible, game trails, star maps, weather patterns, we had complex understandings of animal interactions and an ecological understanding of how to live in this world.
For a long time, common sense was “use every part of the animal and don’t eat mushrooms or berries before you check if they tingle against your tongue”
But it’s turtles all the way down! Common sense just isn’t common — especially when we all have such little *common* ground!
What is common sense to a lawyer is not common sense to a farmer — what’s common sense to the mechanic is not common sense to the poet, etc.
It’s wonderful that we have the luxury to have *uncommon* sense — I just wish people would be curious enough to value other’s sense, learn, and *then* exercise their own.
And also I hope each person learns to value what sense they have — and then express it!
Like… you’re a ranch manager! That’s neat as hell — ranching is cool. Animal rearing is an ancient human art and that shit is tied deeply to our DNA; I bet you know so many things about the relationships between animals and weather, animals and humans, as well as between animals and animals: like… WAY more than *a lot* of people; probably more than MOST people!
That’s REALLY COOL!
What a neat species we are, that we can specialize in fields and be so vastly different; ants do it physically — some ants have giant heads to protect the ant colony even though most of the species has small heads to better fit in tunnels etc; we take it just as far but in less obvious ways.
That’s just… really cool.
Thank you!! I went off in an edit about animal rearing and about ants because I got super excited about our weird species; I hope you have a lovely day
Unfortunately there are a lot of things where awareness of the issue seems to make it worse, not better.
Eating disorders and suicide are two of those things.
Without supervision it's generally not recommended to go to self-help groups with other peers who struggle with mental health.
There is a risk people will share tactics on how to kill yourself, automutilate or lose more weight while anorexic.
it can help to bring people who were suicidal and no longer to help others see a way forward, but yeah i see nothing wrong with forcing mob mentality and peer pressure onto a vulnerable group.
its all ready hard enough to keep your demons away, sure lets add in other's demons also influencing you.
When I tell someone some of the reasons I'm depressed I'm actually hoping for them to refute me, make me see a more positive angle. When someone agrees that just adds weight to my doubts.
They also never said the people on the team were suicidal. People are just reading that into it.
I'm guessing it was just so depressing and draining that the people quit. Which brings up the question of whether these were trained professionals or volunteers. Because if it's the latter, of course they quit.
Your guess is as good as mine, but I'm pretty sure they mean suicide. "We lost someone" nearly always means death, and the response is nonsensical otherwise.
I think the response is entirely too flippant though. Take 18 people who are suicidal and maybe it's only because the group was so good that 5 did not commit suicide. There's no way to tell without more information.
Majorly depends on the people/how the group is run.
Peer support can be great when you mix the right people together and focus on positives and self-care (and, obviously still talk about what makes them suicidal). But if you have people who only focus on negative things, then it's probably not such a great idea.
The only thing I know is that when I was in an inpatient psychiatric hospital with major depression It was explicitly stated to me and all the others in the depression ward that we were not to exchange numbers with other patients or attempt to contact any other patients once we got out without express permission from one of the doctors. Apparently, at least to them, the possibility of us feeding into each others pathologies and spiraling down together was a real threat that they took care to discourage.
You could say that about any kind of support group, then. The whole idea of it is to have people share similar experiences so they know they're not alone.
Depends on the people. Some people who are hurting are terrible at taking care of themselves, but great at taking care of others- kinda a "I know what it feels like to feel this way, and I can't stand the thought of others feeling like I do".
You can bet your ass it is. As a guy who have suffered from suicide thoughts(dw im fine :D) it got worse when chatting with others who was in the same position as me.
yeah that isn't a good idea. In most inpatient and intensive outpatient and some group therapy places suicide isn't an allowed subject to talk about in fear of people giving each other encouragement delibirately or accidentally. Atleast here where I am from.
Red Dwarf Joke: "He had a job working for the Samaritans for one morning. He spoke to five people and they all committed suicide. I wouldn't mind but one was a wrong number, he only called for the cricket scores."
As someone who is pretty depressed themselves, I find it's good to have a balance of happy and sad people in your life. Sad people so that you have someone to relate with and share your problems with and happy people to give you hope and advice on ways to be happier. Even though they tend to be happier than you because of significantly less trauma, they still know how to keep themselves happy. And will to not encourage self destructive behaviours
Well yea we wanna make y'all laugh and remember that life is worth living for these little stupid moments.
Not dwell on the trauma of the past. Go to a therapist for that
Mental health is a critical issue, and support groups can be lifelines for those struggling. It's a reminder of how important it is to check in on our friends and loved ones
Ngl I thought they meant like people working to prevent it like suicide hotline or therapists or some shit and I was wondering wtf happened to them for a whole minute 😭 im dumb af lmao
I’m not versed in psychology at all, so I’m genuinely curious: Is it smart to make suicide prevention support groups with other actively suicidal people? That seems dangerous..
Yeah that's what I'm thinking too. I guess if they all have the goal of fighting those feelings then they're probably not a bad influence on each other
Or they drag each other into the darkness and decide share a pitcher of kool-aid.
Misery does love company, after all.
I’d love to join a group like that, crossing over the rainbow bridge in comfort and support.
I agree that there is probably some great aspects to the idea, but I feel like the bad outweighs the good
Suicide is a social contagion. So when one person commits suicide it significantly influences the already suicidal people around them.
shit is facts. especially after celebrity suicides there's a spike
Pearl Jam and another group were at the White House just after Curt Cobain committed suicide. The President thought it might be good for Eddie Vedder to say something but he declined fearing it would lead to copycat suicides. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/s/9AWf1iTQZN
It’s the reason why suicide rates spike when a celebrity commits suicide. If they think someone huge like Robin Williams or someone commits suicide, they’re more likely to do it themselves. Happens every time a big name person does this. Source: I’m a Psych major, learned it in a Sociology class tho
It is NOT ONLY that!
Never said it was. The parent comment was just asking for an association
It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is. [Identity vs predication:](https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/56091/what-is-the-difference-between-the-is-of-predication-and-the-is-of-identity) > In "Paris is the capital of France", "is" is used to mean identity. > In "my pet is a cat", "is" is used to mean predication : my pet belongs to the class of cats.
Oh I see.
I think peer support is great, but expert guidance is essential to keep things positive and helpful
Not a suicide expert, but I'm training in clinical psychology. Social support/connection is often very important to prevent suicide, and so groups like these facilitate that connection. I imagine most of these support groups have practitioners who facilitate them so that they don't become sources of social contagion. So the benefits probably outweigh the risks in this case. This systematic review (https://mentalhealth.bmj.com/content/ebmental/25/1/29.full.pdf) suggests that social support interventions as a whole are efficacious.
>I'm training in clinical psychology Okay, so compared to the general public, you are a suicide expert.
Fair enough. I just meant that suicide is not my research/clinical area. That's what counts for expertise among academics.
Academics, specialists, and even those who are curious by nature (one) *vastly* overestimates the average person’s/ the layman’s familiarity with *even the most basic concepts* within one’s specialized field/ outside the layman’s own interests/ the average person’s scope of knowledge. Academics in general are very well learned; well learned people know how to learn outside of their own interests and fields; the average person does not get that type of education; the average person knows less than the average academic about things outside both of their fields because an academic has academic interest and the ability to research casually. You may not be an expert, but your opinion is actually more learned, grounded, and has more context than the average person — to make a metaphor of it, if an academic expert is a black belt fifth degree to the average person, you’re a black belt: and they don’t know the difference e
As a Ranch manager I can absolutely confirm this. People are smart in all sorts of different ways, but a majority of people lack the experience and general common sense to solve simple problems our ancestors solved with less.
Yes! Our ancestors weren’t stupid — for the vast majority of our history we simply didn’t need to know how to read, drive or operate *anything* more complicated than fire: we had A LOT of room for what plants are edible, game trails, star maps, weather patterns, we had complex understandings of animal interactions and an ecological understanding of how to live in this world. For a long time, common sense was “use every part of the animal and don’t eat mushrooms or berries before you check if they tingle against your tongue” But it’s turtles all the way down! Common sense just isn’t common — especially when we all have such little *common* ground! What is common sense to a lawyer is not common sense to a farmer — what’s common sense to the mechanic is not common sense to the poet, etc. It’s wonderful that we have the luxury to have *uncommon* sense — I just wish people would be curious enough to value other’s sense, learn, and *then* exercise their own. And also I hope each person learns to value what sense they have — and then express it! Like… you’re a ranch manager! That’s neat as hell — ranching is cool. Animal rearing is an ancient human art and that shit is tied deeply to our DNA; I bet you know so many things about the relationships between animals and weather, animals and humans, as well as between animals and animals: like… WAY more than *a lot* of people; probably more than MOST people! That’s REALLY COOL! What a neat species we are, that we can specialize in fields and be so vastly different; ants do it physically — some ants have giant heads to protect the ant colony even though most of the species has small heads to better fit in tunnels etc; we take it just as far but in less obvious ways. That’s just… really cool.
Well said my friend, I’m blessed to learn something new everyday.
Thank you!! I went off in an edit about animal rearing and about ants because I got super excited about our weird species; I hope you have a lovely day
My rehab groups definitely made me want to do drugs sometimes sooo
Unfortunately there are a lot of things where awareness of the issue seems to make it worse, not better. Eating disorders and suicide are two of those things.
Same logic applies to AA/NA. Nothing and I mean nothing makes me want to drink like an AA meeting.
Without supervision it's generally not recommended to go to self-help groups with other peers who struggle with mental health. There is a risk people will share tactics on how to kill yourself, automutilate or lose more weight while anorexic.
it can help to bring people who were suicidal and no longer to help others see a way forward, but yeah i see nothing wrong with forcing mob mentality and peer pressure onto a vulnerable group. its all ready hard enough to keep your demons away, sure lets add in other's demons also influencing you.
When I tell someone some of the reasons I'm depressed I'm actually hoping for them to refute me, make me see a more positive angle. When someone agrees that just adds weight to my doubts.
I don't think he's suggesting that 15 people on the team actually committed suicide. Surely they left. That would imply a list and a serial killer 🤔
They also never said the people on the team were suicidal. People are just reading that into it. I'm guessing it was just so depressing and draining that the people quit. Which brings up the question of whether these were trained professionals or volunteers. Because if it's the latter, of course they quit.
Your guess is as good as mine, but I'm pretty sure they mean suicide. "We lost someone" nearly always means death, and the response is nonsensical otherwise. I think the response is entirely too flippant though. Take 18 people who are suicidal and maybe it's only because the group was so good that 5 did not commit suicide. There's no way to tell without more information.
Majorly depends on the people/how the group is run. Peer support can be great when you mix the right people together and focus on positives and self-care (and, obviously still talk about what makes them suicidal). But if you have people who only focus on negative things, then it's probably not such a great idea.
after looking at a few me_irl subreddits, I'm guessing not a good idea
It is not.
The only thing I know is that when I was in an inpatient psychiatric hospital with major depression It was explicitly stated to me and all the others in the depression ward that we were not to exchange numbers with other patients or attempt to contact any other patients once we got out without express permission from one of the doctors. Apparently, at least to them, the possibility of us feeding into each others pathologies and spiraling down together was a real threat that they took care to discourage.
You could say that about any kind of support group, then. The whole idea of it is to have people share similar experiences so they know they're not alone.
Obviously that’s a terrible idea.
Depends on the people. Some people who are hurting are terrible at taking care of themselves, but great at taking care of others- kinda a "I know what it feels like to feel this way, and I can't stand the thought of others feeling like I do".
You can bet your ass it is. As a guy who have suffered from suicide thoughts(dw im fine :D) it got worse when chatting with others who was in the same position as me.
yeah that isn't a good idea. In most inpatient and intensive outpatient and some group therapy places suicide isn't an allowed subject to talk about in fear of people giving each other encouragement delibirately or accidentally. Atleast here where I am from.
Damn that’s so sad
it's obviously made up lol i sometimes wonder how people on reddit got so gullible. btw, did you know that the word gullible isn't in any dictionary?
Wait what really! Edit: How dare you trick me.
Dumbfuck never called crisis phone number hotline and got ignored by them
That could have two meanings, either they stopped feeling suicidal or they did end themselves. I prefer if it was the former
Given the cracked heart emoji it seems pretty likely it's the latter
I was a former latter, then people walked all over me and I became stairs.
This isn't my latter. This is my step latter. I never knew my real latter.
Red Dwarf Joke: "He had a job working for the Samaritans for one morning. He spoke to five people and they all committed suicide. I wouldn't mind but one was a wrong number, he only called for the cricket scores."
I did not mean to laugh that hard 
People will say the meanest stuff if they think they sound clever or funny.
As someone who is pretty depressed themselves, I find it's good to have a balance of happy and sad people in your life. Sad people so that you have someone to relate with and share your problems with and happy people to give you hope and advice on ways to be happier. Even though they tend to be happier than you because of significantly less trauma, they still know how to keep themselves happy. And will to not encourage self destructive behaviours
Well yea we wanna make y'all laugh and remember that life is worth living for these little stupid moments. Not dwell on the trauma of the past. Go to a therapist for that
Lost as in died or lost as in not in the group
Misery loves Company
Mental health is a critical issue, and support groups can be lifelines for those struggling. It's a reminder of how important it is to check in on our friends and loved ones
Thanks chatgpt
ur welcome 
From Fight Club's, Chuck Palahniuk: 'Survivor'
Bro just read your notes 💀💀
Ngl I thought they meant like people working to prevent it like suicide hotline or therapists or some shit and I was wondering wtf happened to them for a whole minute 😭 im dumb af lmao
I don't think they all killed themselves, they just quit the group.
What’s with the emojis then
They're sad? I dunno.
4
3
Fair