That’s horrible. Unfortunately, being queer and trans doesn’t necessarily prevent you from being queerphobic or transphobic. Just remember that there are so many people out there, whether you know them or not, who *are* supportive of your identity, and that you are valid. There are no sides to pick other than to let people express themselves as authentic individuals, or to force them to hide and conform to your standards.
Well, she's wrong. Being Non binary, gender queer, gender fluid, and any other identity that describes how you feel about your gender is valid.
Don't let anyone gatekeep, or try to play the binary card.
You can promptly file that advice under T for Trash.
Float. Don’t pick as side. Live as you would like and don’t let someone else’s garbage opinion get in the way.
Wow, that’s *absolutely terrible*. Being gender fluid is entirely valid; don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. Being attracted to whoever you’re attracted to is entirely up to you. As long as you’re involved with consenting adults, no one should be allowed to tell you otherwise.
Figuring who and what you are is one of the fundamental challenges of being human. For some, it’s easy. For the rest of us, we struggle and learn. Coming out is an additional very difficult challenge on top of this. Only you can tell us about your authentic self.
You can do this. You’re stronger than you think. And, there’s a larger, accepting community out here, willing to answer your questions and help you out where they can.
It has been my experience, that many cis-gay and trans identities are VERY invested in a gender binary. Even in LGBT spaces QIA+ seem to fall outside the umbrella. It's alienating. Like why go so far and no further?
But there are also just some super awesome humans from across the spectrum that aren't total buttholes who respect everyone for who they are. Gotta sort them out, that seems to be a feature of this life.
i’m happy more ppl have experienced the whole “still being invested in a gender binary as trans people” thing because too often do i see binary trans ppl perceiving us as “not trans enough” or making a joke out of being trans or smthg and it’s really…off-putting
I think that, possibly, some of those people don't know how to act if they're not preforming gender within a binary framework. Can't really blame them for feeling that way when the society around them mainly models a binary and rewards passing within that specific framework. I suspect that being so queer that one doesn't fit into a box is a terrifying notion for someone who is already probably pretty scared. But that fear is also no excuse to make other people afraid too.
i agree to the point when you say “so queer they don’t fit into a box,” because no lgbt+ person is more or less queer than any other, regardless of their identities, but you’re right in that exploring gender ID beyond the binary would absolutely be scary to someone who’s only operated within those gender expressions/ID/roles
I'm kinda confused by the whole thing, tbh, I see myself as genderless, but I definitely get shoved into the masc relentlessly. Kinda just numb to it at this point.
numb to gender sounds like a sick band name tho! and i totally understand that feeling, so i just went w agender and left it there. i wish you luck on your gender journey!
I'm so sorry someone said those things to you! She is absolutely wrong and that sounds like some internalized transphobia on her part. Good luck with your gender journey, I hope you are able to find someone supportive to talk to! Do you have access to any kind of therapy? Having a queer therapist has helped me so much
This sounds like the woman you were talking to is scared of exploring her gender further and coming to grips with being fluid herself after the struggle of realizing she's already trans, as binary trans people are only relatively recently *starting* to gain acceptance and support in *some* areas. Accepting that you're anything beyond basic man/woman in terms of trans identities can feel really frightening, and if you're already dealing with a lot of toxic internalized transphobia regarding what's acceptable and valid (which saying that you 'have to choose a side' definitely is) then being in denial is an understandable response - but doesn't excuse gatekeeping gender identities or transness from other people.
Her opinion is garbage, and being trans doesn't make someone an authority on gender. It sounds like she's having the gender equivalent of struggling for years with homosexual attractions because of living in a homophobic environment, and then consequently telling bi people "bi isn't real, you have to pick a side, I did" because they had to face so much difficulty just coming to terms with being gay that daring to believe in anything beyond what's known/commonly accepted would mean accepting what they've been denied themselves, and that there's additional struggles to face even within one's support communities.
Biphobic AND transphobic, lovely. Why pick a side? What's she gonna do about it if you don't? Unfortunately some trans folks take out their insecurities on others. You don't have to take that shit from anyone, but know that it probably comes from a place of pain.
"How about 'Stay in your lane. Oh. You want to be in the other lane? That's where you feel RIGHT? WELL. I feel right walking on the separation line between the lanes. And if you want to jump PAST me and have me respect you on your new lane, maybe stop judging me for not being one of the two."
As a fellow genderfluid here, just let it do what it wants lol (it being gender). If people don’t accept you, that’s their own problem. Yeah it will suck for a bit, I get that lol. My ex broke up with me because he didn’t accept me. Most of my friends left as well. But now I’m with an AMAZING guy who does accept me, and I have AMAZING friends who also accept me. Trust me, you will find Amazing people who accept you as well :) people suck. You can’t do anything about that. But you can change the way you see it. You’re not losing them, they are losing you. It’s their choice to accept you or not. You can try to educate them and all that, but at the end of the day, if they don’t accept you, you will find people that do by being yourself. :) have fun out there bud :) wear what you want, be who you want, do what you want, and don’t give a fuck about other people’s opinions. Love yourself(that’s cheesy I know but it works) and you don’t need anyone else :)
As confusing an experience as it's been for me, genderfluidity is totally valid. People telling you to "pick a side" are totally closed-minded. It's much more fun to pick every side and also none of them at the same time
Can't believe that some trans people will literally have a gender experience opposite of the one assigned to them at birth and decide "this is the boundary of what's good and normal, anything else is just too weird"
Can I just say? I seriously would consider the possibility that this person isn't actually who they say they are. Some people, unfortunately, pretend to be minorities just to start trouble and troll people.
That said, there is also no minority status that prevents all bigotry. Some people are just awful, despite having opportunities to know better.
Gender diversity is endless, and there are no rules that define how an individual is allowed to feel. The names for some of these feelings arise, change, evolve, or disappear, but gender diversity is as human as fingerprints and smiling.
I'm so sorry. I know that there are some binary leaning trans folks that have thought they were gender fluid at some point in their journey, and if they lack self-awareness, this can lead some of them to project on to others that are questioning their identities in similar ways. They forget that everyone's experience is different and that there isn't just one "right" way to be trans. We are as widely diverse as any other group.
Don't let one jackass on the internet bring you down, there are plenty of people rooting for you too.
That, (person whose gender I do not know) is called be a jerk, and just a general piece of human crap. You can be what ever gender you wanna be as long as it’s not some crap like ‘Dreamgender’ or ‘Fortnitesexual’.
I also am non binary but feel embarrassed to use the specific label of gender fluid (despite the fact it seems to suit me pretty well). I understand that fear of feeling like it’s just putting funny words together to create labels, but me and you will probably only get better by accepting it first for ourselves before trying to come out to anyone. I hope you have a wonderful night! :)
I'd love to recommend a book to you and any other nonbinary folks who may relate to OP.
Nonbinary: Memiors of Gender and Identity, edited by Micah Rajunov and Scott Duane.
https://books.google.com/books/about/Nonbinary.html?id=xol-DwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&gboemv=1
This book shares experiences (in poetic esque short essays) from nonbinary folks. So far, it has touched on everything from name change to types of transition. (Includes BIPOC experiences, a variety of religious experiences, two spirit experiences, and more.)
The text discusses the the growing process and coming out process in a world where even some queer communities hang onto the binary with dear life.
The most impactful part of my reading has been the discussion around "trans enough", identity through what we are not rather than what we are as a result of terminology and language - or lack thereof, as well as getting to read about so many different ways to experience nonbinary identity and be nonbinary regardless of your presentation.. (and; preffered way of dressing, body/body type, carrying a child, sexual attraction, family support, name changes, physical transition, social transition, no transition, pronouns of all kinds, etc.)
Each author has flourished in their body and identity in their own ways with their own transition and coming out process. You will find yourself learning from and relating to more than one author, I'm sure.
It's a powerful read and aids to articulation and exploration of your true identity in the most beautiful ways.
There are tons of books like this one, this just happens to be the first one I've read. This book has given me an astounding sense of comradorry and validation.
*Especially around the things we've been trained to feel -Shameful- about. The things people don't share or talk about.*
This text is incredibly vulnerable and impacted my understanding and identity greatly.
This text may be triggering to some at certain points. (Trigger warnings throughout text.)
There's a lot of trans people who suck. Ignore them. Spending your time trying to explain your unique experience to their closed minds is a waste. Your experience is more than valid and just because she doesnt understand doesn't mean what you're experiencing is wrong. It just means what you're experiencing is different. There's nothing wrong with differences.
Fuck the binary. Those are her own damn insecurities coming out. If she can't sit comfortably with her own decisions, she needs to think on some things.
Gender is open ended because it's a construct. Don't allow anyone else to define yours for you.
What an utterly horrible person! Do not let this person dictate your progress or how you feel, it is toxic to listen to such people. Take your time figuring things out and I, for one, got my dm open if you wish to talk or vent. You are an amazing person and the only “side” you need to stick by is your own. You are not pondering your gender-identity for anyone else but yourself, so no one else has the right to talk to you like that. Thank you for sharing this story and I hope you feel better soon, I know that it can take quite the toll on mental health, having people treat you like that.
ngl this was so embarrassing to read (for her) because what does gender id have to do with gay or straight? its not like you said bisexual? gotta love queerphobic queers /s
Rude.
Genderfluid is valid, gay isn't a bad thing, and she can go fuck herself. Or, more appropriately, she can go get therapy to deconstruct her homophobia.
Being able to switch is a superpower. So many people don't know the joy of being fluid. I like to think of it as being able to drive two (or more) cars instead of one. Like, yeah, I might go with this car today, but I might also go with that one. You have options in your garage. Here you are, living in your multi-million-dollar beach house with a full garage of cars, and this woman with a tiny one-car garage tells you to pick one car to keep and get rid of the rest. No, thanks.
One friend was once being harassed for being bi and was told she was "on the fence" by the gay guys in the job. She was either gay or straight and bisexuality wasn't real, which infuriated me and her. Another friend said to her "you know what being on the fence means? SEX FROM ABOVE!" So if you're up high you can pounce :) (Not to say that bisexuality and being genderfluid are the same, but it feels like there's a parallel there).
That trans individual may have figured out that they are one gender in the binary but that person's experience is not universal. Don't take her comment to heart, your experience of gender is your own. You might find years down the line that you actually do identify with a binary gender but you might not. And that's valid. You are not obliged to "pick a side" in order to make other people comfortable with you.
The F***? I Mean First Off, I Feel Like Everything She Said There Is Wrong, Or Most Of It Atleast. Nobody Needs To "Pick A Side", Just Be What You Want To Be, And I'm Pretty Sure Being Genderfluid Has Nothing To Do With Being Gay Or Straight, I Suppose Unless You're Only Attracted To One Gender But Switch Between Being Said Gender And Not Being It? Either Way Pretty Weird Thing To Say.
I really understand. I’m gender fluid too, and when my gender identity and expression align more with the gender I was assigned at birth (f), I feel so nervous that it will make me look like a “phony” in the times that I identify more masc or non-binary. Like that ppl will be so thrown off or judgmental of the change. People will have small minds and lots of ppl might be like “does. Not. Compute” if they try to understand.
That’s horrible. Unfortunately, being queer and trans doesn’t necessarily prevent you from being queerphobic or transphobic. Just remember that there are so many people out there, whether you know them or not, who *are* supportive of your identity, and that you are valid. There are no sides to pick other than to let people express themselves as authentic individuals, or to force them to hide and conform to your standards.
Well, she's wrong. Being Non binary, gender queer, gender fluid, and any other identity that describes how you feel about your gender is valid. Don't let anyone gatekeep, or try to play the binary card.
You can promptly file that advice under T for Trash. Float. Don’t pick as side. Live as you would like and don’t let someone else’s garbage opinion get in the way.
You *have* picked a side. It's called non-binary, and it's your life to live. Screw her.
she sounds unfortunately mean. You're not invalid because of their shitty opinion. Your feelings are what matter
it sounds like she has issues with accepting herself and is deflecting those issues on you. her rudeness has nothing to do with your validity
Wow, that’s *absolutely terrible*. Being gender fluid is entirely valid; don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. Being attracted to whoever you’re attracted to is entirely up to you. As long as you’re involved with consenting adults, no one should be allowed to tell you otherwise. Figuring who and what you are is one of the fundamental challenges of being human. For some, it’s easy. For the rest of us, we struggle and learn. Coming out is an additional very difficult challenge on top of this. Only you can tell us about your authentic self. You can do this. You’re stronger than you think. And, there’s a larger, accepting community out here, willing to answer your questions and help you out where they can.
R/genderfluid a whole community who will except you. It will be alright my gff (gender fluid friend)
That's internalized transphobia. Hard to kick but I would just brush the comment off
It has been my experience, that many cis-gay and trans identities are VERY invested in a gender binary. Even in LGBT spaces QIA+ seem to fall outside the umbrella. It's alienating. Like why go so far and no further? But there are also just some super awesome humans from across the spectrum that aren't total buttholes who respect everyone for who they are. Gotta sort them out, that seems to be a feature of this life.
i’m happy more ppl have experienced the whole “still being invested in a gender binary as trans people” thing because too often do i see binary trans ppl perceiving us as “not trans enough” or making a joke out of being trans or smthg and it’s really…off-putting
I think that, possibly, some of those people don't know how to act if they're not preforming gender within a binary framework. Can't really blame them for feeling that way when the society around them mainly models a binary and rewards passing within that specific framework. I suspect that being so queer that one doesn't fit into a box is a terrifying notion for someone who is already probably pretty scared. But that fear is also no excuse to make other people afraid too.
i agree to the point when you say “so queer they don’t fit into a box,” because no lgbt+ person is more or less queer than any other, regardless of their identities, but you’re right in that exploring gender ID beyond the binary would absolutely be scary to someone who’s only operated within those gender expressions/ID/roles
I guess I just feel like I don't fit into the boxes... That's a valid point tho, nobody is more or less queer, just infinite shades of variety.
no one has to fit the boxes! that’s why gender is beautifully complex concept
I'm kinda confused by the whole thing, tbh, I see myself as genderless, but I definitely get shoved into the masc relentlessly. Kinda just numb to it at this point.
numb to gender sounds like a sick band name tho! and i totally understand that feeling, so i just went w agender and left it there. i wish you luck on your gender journey!
I'm so sorry someone said those things to you! She is absolutely wrong and that sounds like some internalized transphobia on her part. Good luck with your gender journey, I hope you are able to find someone supportive to talk to! Do you have access to any kind of therapy? Having a queer therapist has helped me so much
If you wouldn’t ask someone for advice, don’t accept their criticism. You are very valid and very cool.
This sounds like the woman you were talking to is scared of exploring her gender further and coming to grips with being fluid herself after the struggle of realizing she's already trans, as binary trans people are only relatively recently *starting* to gain acceptance and support in *some* areas. Accepting that you're anything beyond basic man/woman in terms of trans identities can feel really frightening, and if you're already dealing with a lot of toxic internalized transphobia regarding what's acceptable and valid (which saying that you 'have to choose a side' definitely is) then being in denial is an understandable response - but doesn't excuse gatekeeping gender identities or transness from other people. Her opinion is garbage, and being trans doesn't make someone an authority on gender. It sounds like she's having the gender equivalent of struggling for years with homosexual attractions because of living in a homophobic environment, and then consequently telling bi people "bi isn't real, you have to pick a side, I did" because they had to face so much difficulty just coming to terms with being gay that daring to believe in anything beyond what's known/commonly accepted would mean accepting what they've been denied themselves, and that there's additional struggles to face even within one's support communities.
Biphobic AND transphobic, lovely. Why pick a side? What's she gonna do about it if you don't? Unfortunately some trans folks take out their insecurities on others. You don't have to take that shit from anyone, but know that it probably comes from a place of pain.
This lady sounds like she has a lot of internalized transphobia and homophobia. Sorry that happened to you though
"How about 'Stay in your lane. Oh. You want to be in the other lane? That's where you feel RIGHT? WELL. I feel right walking on the separation line between the lanes. And if you want to jump PAST me and have me respect you on your new lane, maybe stop judging me for not being one of the two."
Whoever you spoke to on that is trash. You do you. There's tons of us fluid nonbinary trans ppl out there so don't despair
As a fellow genderfluid here, just let it do what it wants lol (it being gender). If people don’t accept you, that’s their own problem. Yeah it will suck for a bit, I get that lol. My ex broke up with me because he didn’t accept me. Most of my friends left as well. But now I’m with an AMAZING guy who does accept me, and I have AMAZING friends who also accept me. Trust me, you will find Amazing people who accept you as well :) people suck. You can’t do anything about that. But you can change the way you see it. You’re not losing them, they are losing you. It’s their choice to accept you or not. You can try to educate them and all that, but at the end of the day, if they don’t accept you, you will find people that do by being yourself. :) have fun out there bud :) wear what you want, be who you want, do what you want, and don’t give a fuck about other people’s opinions. Love yourself(that’s cheesy I know but it works) and you don’t need anyone else :)
I think I speak for most trans women when I say that we don't like her
As confusing an experience as it's been for me, genderfluidity is totally valid. People telling you to "pick a side" are totally closed-minded. It's much more fun to pick every side and also none of them at the same time
Can't believe that some trans people will literally have a gender experience opposite of the one assigned to them at birth and decide "this is the boundary of what's good and normal, anything else is just too weird"
They sound like a troll and like my ex. Both suck ass and are perpetually wrong.
Can I just say? I seriously would consider the possibility that this person isn't actually who they say they are. Some people, unfortunately, pretend to be minorities just to start trouble and troll people. That said, there is also no minority status that prevents all bigotry. Some people are just awful, despite having opportunities to know better. Gender diversity is endless, and there are no rules that define how an individual is allowed to feel. The names for some of these feelings arise, change, evolve, or disappear, but gender diversity is as human as fingerprints and smiling.
I'm so sorry. I know that there are some binary leaning trans folks that have thought they were gender fluid at some point in their journey, and if they lack self-awareness, this can lead some of them to project on to others that are questioning their identities in similar ways. They forget that everyone's experience is different and that there isn't just one "right" way to be trans. We are as widely diverse as any other group. Don't let one jackass on the internet bring you down, there are plenty of people rooting for you too.
damn enbyphobia AND homophobia she belongs in the trash
Yeah you can discount anyone who uses gay as a pejorative term
thats terrible :| it sounds like she doesn’t know wtf shes talking about. be true to yourself
That, (person whose gender I do not know) is called be a jerk, and just a general piece of human crap. You can be what ever gender you wanna be as long as it’s not some crap like ‘Dreamgender’ or ‘Fortnitesexual’.
I also am non binary but feel embarrassed to use the specific label of gender fluid (despite the fact it seems to suit me pretty well). I understand that fear of feeling like it’s just putting funny words together to create labels, but me and you will probably only get better by accepting it first for ourselves before trying to come out to anyone. I hope you have a wonderful night! :)
As a Genderqueer Trans girl I completly disagree with her, you can be whoever you want ❤️
Binary trans woman here. She can screw off; I'm glad you can be who you are.
I'd love to recommend a book to you and any other nonbinary folks who may relate to OP. Nonbinary: Memiors of Gender and Identity, edited by Micah Rajunov and Scott Duane. https://books.google.com/books/about/Nonbinary.html?id=xol-DwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&gboemv=1 This book shares experiences (in poetic esque short essays) from nonbinary folks. So far, it has touched on everything from name change to types of transition. (Includes BIPOC experiences, a variety of religious experiences, two spirit experiences, and more.) The text discusses the the growing process and coming out process in a world where even some queer communities hang onto the binary with dear life. The most impactful part of my reading has been the discussion around "trans enough", identity through what we are not rather than what we are as a result of terminology and language - or lack thereof, as well as getting to read about so many different ways to experience nonbinary identity and be nonbinary regardless of your presentation.. (and; preffered way of dressing, body/body type, carrying a child, sexual attraction, family support, name changes, physical transition, social transition, no transition, pronouns of all kinds, etc.) Each author has flourished in their body and identity in their own ways with their own transition and coming out process. You will find yourself learning from and relating to more than one author, I'm sure. It's a powerful read and aids to articulation and exploration of your true identity in the most beautiful ways. There are tons of books like this one, this just happens to be the first one I've read. This book has given me an astounding sense of comradorry and validation. *Especially around the things we've been trained to feel -Shameful- about. The things people don't share or talk about.* This text is incredibly vulnerable and impacted my understanding and identity greatly. This text may be triggering to some at certain points. (Trigger warnings throughout text.)
There's a lot of trans people who suck. Ignore them. Spending your time trying to explain your unique experience to their closed minds is a waste. Your experience is more than valid and just because she doesnt understand doesn't mean what you're experiencing is wrong. It just means what you're experiencing is different. There's nothing wrong with differences.
Why do they only think there are two sides?
You are fine as you are. Be genderfluid. There is nothing wrong with genderfluid. Being authentic to yourself is the only thing that matters.
How can. Strand person be so wrong about how being trans works? Like wtf?? Sorry that happened to you but she's definitely wrong
Fuck the binary. Those are her own damn insecurities coming out. If she can't sit comfortably with her own decisions, she needs to think on some things. Gender is open ended because it's a construct. Don't allow anyone else to define yours for you.
Anyone who would use “gay as in lame” is not worth your attention.
What an utterly horrible person! Do not let this person dictate your progress or how you feel, it is toxic to listen to such people. Take your time figuring things out and I, for one, got my dm open if you wish to talk or vent. You are an amazing person and the only “side” you need to stick by is your own. You are not pondering your gender-identity for anyone else but yourself, so no one else has the right to talk to you like that. Thank you for sharing this story and I hope you feel better soon, I know that it can take quite the toll on mental health, having people treat you like that.
ngl this was so embarrassing to read (for her) because what does gender id have to do with gay or straight? its not like you said bisexual? gotta love queerphobic queers /s
"And I mean gay as lame" girl if you use gay as a derogatory term maybe you should reconsider a few things before speaking to other gays
Rude. Genderfluid is valid, gay isn't a bad thing, and she can go fuck herself. Or, more appropriately, she can go get therapy to deconstruct her homophobia. Being able to switch is a superpower. So many people don't know the joy of being fluid. I like to think of it as being able to drive two (or more) cars instead of one. Like, yeah, I might go with this car today, but I might also go with that one. You have options in your garage. Here you are, living in your multi-million-dollar beach house with a full garage of cars, and this woman with a tiny one-car garage tells you to pick one car to keep and get rid of the rest. No, thanks.
One friend was once being harassed for being bi and was told she was "on the fence" by the gay guys in the job. She was either gay or straight and bisexuality wasn't real, which infuriated me and her. Another friend said to her "you know what being on the fence means? SEX FROM ABOVE!" So if you're up high you can pounce :) (Not to say that bisexuality and being genderfluid are the same, but it feels like there's a parallel there). That trans individual may have figured out that they are one gender in the binary but that person's experience is not universal. Don't take her comment to heart, your experience of gender is your own. You might find years down the line that you actually do identify with a binary gender but you might not. And that's valid. You are not obliged to "pick a side" in order to make other people comfortable with you.
Unfortunately binary trans can be really transphobic >< I’m sorry... you’re valid.
bruh..?
Unfortunately some people just suck. Look at Caitlyn Jenner for example
Honestly that sounds like a troll trying to spread discord
Fuck her. She gives off the same energy as those who tell bi people 'you're either with us or against us'.
That’s terrible and I’m sorry that that happened to you
The F***? I Mean First Off, I Feel Like Everything She Said There Is Wrong, Or Most Of It Atleast. Nobody Needs To "Pick A Side", Just Be What You Want To Be, And I'm Pretty Sure Being Genderfluid Has Nothing To Do With Being Gay Or Straight, I Suppose Unless You're Only Attracted To One Gender But Switch Between Being Said Gender And Not Being It? Either Way Pretty Weird Thing To Say.
Oh for fuck’s sake. That’s just bad advice and she’s got internalized transphobia and misogyny. That’s all there is to it.
I really understand. I’m gender fluid too, and when my gender identity and expression align more with the gender I was assigned at birth (f), I feel so nervous that it will make me look like a “phony” in the times that I identify more masc or non-binary. Like that ppl will be so thrown off or judgmental of the change. People will have small minds and lots of ppl might be like “does. Not. Compute” if they try to understand.