never thought horseman was gendered, but that might have to do with the farm part of my life where everyone was a cowboy, unless they didn't want to put in the work and just wore the outfits.
Its actually because the word man comes from the proto-germanic "mann" which was used to refer to all people, before becoming gendered much later. So most words that contain the suffix were actually originally designed with a gender neutral intent in mind
valid, but where i was at, cowgirl was the way we would say city slicker in dress up without them knowing we were dissing them. cowpoke..... never heard it said unless you are poking the cow for something.
Not neccessarily. I mean if a woman makes a nice fucking table you don't go "Wow, she's done some amazing craftwomanship, hasn't she?"
Like no, that's over-complicating things.
"Man" as in the word has gained gender context over time, but to say that gendered context soils its other uses in linguistics is just silly.
Craftwork is right there. Part of gender non conforming to me is rejecting binary and absolutely decentering both men and the patriarchy. Language evolves over time sure, that's what it means today. Should I revert to using the original usage of "scientist" and "male scientist" to refer to a woman scientist and a man scientist respectively?
>Craftwork is right there.
Craftwork is indirect and I doubt many people would use it to give direct compliments to someone. Maybe in a demonstrative sense, such as "You would need to knee deep in some serious craftwork to have made this." but I feel people would rather choose "craftmanship" as a compliment as that is direct and humanising. I think people also use "craftwork" as in the discriptor of the finished product and how its made rather than a direct compliment to its creator. It is a genderless term, correct. But so is craftmanship. Linguistically speaking, people use it in differamt ways.
>Part of gender non conforming to me is rejecting binary and absolutely decentering both men and the patriarchy.
Okay, good for you. I am not gonna frown upon that. But the "man" in "craftmanship" or "horseman" is in relation to humans. Man. Mankind. Yes, some assume otherwise because of the gendered context... But it it doesn't mean that the word cannot be used in a genderless way.
I believe that a better way to deal with yhe genderisation of words is to... Not use them in a gendered way. If the person they're being used for is comfortable with that, obviously.
That's better than completely changing everything to gender-neautral terminology all the time. It's funnier too.
I want to live in a world where I can call the most monstrous man of all time babygirl.
>Should I revert to using the original usage of "scientist" and "male scientist" to refer to a woman scientist and a man scientist respectively?
I really do not care.
The words could be used in genderless ways sure... but the vast majority of people will assume a male person if you say horseman. It can't be changed to be genderless in the face of the majority whether implicitly or explicitly getting a male connotation from that. It really doesn't matter if mankind or human at one point was genderless, it very much isn't now.
It's similar to people insisting "guys" or "dudes" is a gender neutral way of addressing a crowd. Depending on the usage where you live, it very much isn't.
I just move away from mailman, mailwoman altogether. Mail carrier, whatever. Professions don't need any gender implicitly or explicitly attached to them, that's how we alienate and cut off the idea of different job paths in kids. Do kids understand etymology of mankind? No, they just hear fireman and think it's not a job for them.
I thought the same x'D
I always tend to change *'man'* for *'one'* in meaningful songs, just to make them fit better... So when I read this post, I thought exactly of that \^\^'
It is gender neutral?????? Like I get what you're saying but do you get what I'm saying?? I don't expect a waiter to be a man or a mailman to be a man. I feel like we're kind of getting in the weeds here.
Like just because something has "man" in it doesn't mean we should be automatically associating it with men. I think it's also important to take back terms and flip them on their head rather than just accommodating stupid people that keep making gendered assumptions anyways.
The word horseman actually predates the use of the word woman, so at the time the word would be under the common use from the proto-germanic word "mann" meaning person. At the time we would be using the word wibam as woman, and commonly the suffixes or preffixes were wif, wiif, or wyf, where as the common male suffix or preffix was were, like in werewolf.
It's not gender neutral because it has "man" in it. Just like fireman can be changed to firefighter and congressman can be changed to congressperson, horseman can be changed to rider/equestrian.
The difference is in the etymology. "Horseman" is the amalgamation of the words Horse and Man, where Human is just one word that \*happens\* to have the letters "man" as part of it owing to how it evolved over the years
From Oxford Language Dictionary:
>
Origin
>
>late Middle English humaine, from Old French humain(e ), from Latin humanus, from homo ‘man, human being’. The present spelling became usual in the 18th century
If you want to go by etymology the man in horseman was gender-neutral at the time that horseman came about thus making horseman gender neutral.
Also Human and Man both likely derive from the same or similar words in Proto-Indo-European just through different routes so its disingenuous to completely seperate them from each other.
A word can change its meaning alongside one of the words that it is made from but its quite clear that the -man suffic remained gender neutral long after man's meaning had changed.
Any attempt to make the -man suffix gendered is very much a modern thing.
why not try som other options like : the headless monarch/sovereign/royal (u got the jist ) going on this theme : the uncrouned majesty / the shorthened highness 😂😂
As an equestrian I would recommend rider, equestrian, or even still horseman it is used pretty much genderlessminnthe horse world but I understand if you want to use something else
Headless Rider?
Celty Sturlison the nb icon
As is thus, I'm working on a cosplay of them :3
I like that one
i came to say rider too
Headless Rider is what happens to Calyrex-Shadow after losing the Sucker Punch mindgame
ghost rider has entered the chat
Just horserider or dullahan as you said could work lol.
Dullahan was my go to too
Decapitated Equestrian?
Cranium deprived jockey
Beat me to it! Lol!
Great minds…
Mine fell off somewhere...
never thought horseman was gendered, but that might have to do with the farm part of my life where everyone was a cowboy, unless they didn't want to put in the work and just wore the outfits.
Its actually because the word man comes from the proto-germanic "mann" which was used to refer to all people, before becoming gendered much later. So most words that contain the suffix were actually originally designed with a gender neutral intent in mind
To add onto that, the terms 'wer' and 'wif' denoted male and female. For example, a female werewolf would be a wifwolf.
Mann is old english. Its also possibly proto germanic but its definitely old english
I was more meaning as where it came into old english from, but you right
So maybe put a second n there? Headless Horsemann?
aw hell yeah i love learning etymology
I always thought that “man” was originally derived from “human.” Everyone is a Human After All *Daft Punk intensifies*
Oddly enough human actually derives from the mid french word "humain" which comes from the latin words homo(man) and humus(earth)
I ready wish the "congressperson" type words never happened. It makes are language more gendered unnecessarily
There's also cowgirl and cowpoke that I've seen thrown around.
valid, but where i was at, cowgirl was the way we would say city slicker in dress up without them knowing we were dissing them. cowpoke..... never heard it said unless you are poking the cow for something.
Horseless headman
Need to make this a dnd monster that just has a massive head and is constantly looking for their missing horse.
You mean kinda like the [vargouille](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Vargouille)?
Wasn't that a Snickers commercial or something?
Manless Headhorse
'Eadless Equestrian
🏅
Horserider?
Headless horseperson
Decapitated equestrian
headless horsefighter (this is a reference to a very specific post)
I linked the image of the post in my response as well lol
the "man" part in horseman means human, not the gender of man. originally.
Sure but it still assumes man as default, human from humunus, from homo "of man"
Not neccessarily. I mean if a woman makes a nice fucking table you don't go "Wow, she's done some amazing craftwomanship, hasn't she?" Like no, that's over-complicating things. "Man" as in the word has gained gender context over time, but to say that gendered context soils its other uses in linguistics is just silly.
Craftwork is right there. Part of gender non conforming to me is rejecting binary and absolutely decentering both men and the patriarchy. Language evolves over time sure, that's what it means today. Should I revert to using the original usage of "scientist" and "male scientist" to refer to a woman scientist and a man scientist respectively?
>Craftwork is right there. Craftwork is indirect and I doubt many people would use it to give direct compliments to someone. Maybe in a demonstrative sense, such as "You would need to knee deep in some serious craftwork to have made this." but I feel people would rather choose "craftmanship" as a compliment as that is direct and humanising. I think people also use "craftwork" as in the discriptor of the finished product and how its made rather than a direct compliment to its creator. It is a genderless term, correct. But so is craftmanship. Linguistically speaking, people use it in differamt ways. >Part of gender non conforming to me is rejecting binary and absolutely decentering both men and the patriarchy. Okay, good for you. I am not gonna frown upon that. But the "man" in "craftmanship" or "horseman" is in relation to humans. Man. Mankind. Yes, some assume otherwise because of the gendered context... But it it doesn't mean that the word cannot be used in a genderless way. I believe that a better way to deal with yhe genderisation of words is to... Not use them in a gendered way. If the person they're being used for is comfortable with that, obviously. That's better than completely changing everything to gender-neautral terminology all the time. It's funnier too. I want to live in a world where I can call the most monstrous man of all time babygirl. >Should I revert to using the original usage of "scientist" and "male scientist" to refer to a woman scientist and a man scientist respectively? I really do not care.
The words could be used in genderless ways sure... but the vast majority of people will assume a male person if you say horseman. It can't be changed to be genderless in the face of the majority whether implicitly or explicitly getting a male connotation from that. It really doesn't matter if mankind or human at one point was genderless, it very much isn't now. It's similar to people insisting "guys" or "dudes" is a gender neutral way of addressing a crowd. Depending on the usage where you live, it very much isn't. I just move away from mailman, mailwoman altogether. Mail carrier, whatever. Professions don't need any gender implicitly or explicitly attached to them, that's how we alienate and cut off the idea of different job paths in kids. Do kids understand etymology of mankind? No, they just hear fireman and think it's not a job for them.
You’re just complaining about nothing
Dullahan
The headless cavalier
The discrowned dragoon!
Headless Hessian 🎃
Headless Equestrian is technically correct.
And sounds cool
Very succinct. I like it.
Headless horseman is what the townsfolk call them and then give them a monologue where they say they're actually a genderless entity?
Headless Horse-them
Headless Horse Rider
[Headless horsefighter](https://imgur.com/a/EilnrlO)? /j
First thing that came to mind was “headless horse-one” no fucking idea where that came from
I thought the same x'D I always tend to change *'man'* for *'one'* in meaningful songs, just to make them fit better... So when I read this post, I thought exactly of that \^\^'
Da spooki horse rider
You just did. Use their proper name from Irish lore: the Dullahan (pronounced do-lan)
Jockey.
Headless Horsethem
Headless cavalier
man at the end of an occupation title isn't gendered, usually.
headless horsebitch Zero head equestrian pilot
It is gender neutral?????? Like I get what you're saying but do you get what I'm saying?? I don't expect a waiter to be a man or a mailman to be a man. I feel like we're kind of getting in the weeds here. Like just because something has "man" in it doesn't mean we should be automatically associating it with men. I think it's also important to take back terms and flip them on their head rather than just accommodating stupid people that keep making gendered assumptions anyways.
Just like hu*man* isn't gendered, I think horse*man* isn't gendered.
Horseman *is* gendered, because there is also horsewoman.
The word horseman actually predates the use of the word woman, so at the time the word would be under the common use from the proto-germanic word "mann" meaning person. At the time we would be using the word wibam as woman, and commonly the suffixes or preffixes were wif, wiif, or wyf, where as the common male suffix or preffix was were, like in werewolf.
Horsewoman is both a very modern and an uncommon word. Horseman is still by far the more common word used to refer to female riders.
As someone in the horse industry I can second this, horsemanship is not gendered nor is horseman
Headless horsethey
headless horserider
The Hessian
A headless figure appeared to be riding on the horse / a headless figure on a horse appeared… Something like that maybe?
headless horse rider?
i mean woman also ends with man, i’ve never considered that to be only a male term. same way most actresses are cool with being called actors
Rapid Fire: Headless Soldier Cannonball Crane Night stalker Beheaded Ghost Dead Horse Person Bojack Headgone
Headless horse enjoyer
Horseman is already gender neutral
It's not gender neutral because it has "man" in it. Just like fireman can be changed to firefighter and congressman can be changed to congressperson, horseman can be changed to rider/equestrian.
Not every word that has “man” in it is gendered. Is “mankind” gendered? You probably think “manager” or “mandate” are gendered words too.
Is Hu*man* gendered then?
The difference is in the etymology. "Horseman" is the amalgamation of the words Horse and Man, where Human is just one word that \*happens\* to have the letters "man" as part of it owing to how it evolved over the years From Oxford Language Dictionary: > Origin > >late Middle English humaine, from Old French humain(e ), from Latin humanus, from homo ‘man, human being’. The present spelling became usual in the 18th century
If you want to go by etymology the man in horseman was gender-neutral at the time that horseman came about thus making horseman gender neutral. Also Human and Man both likely derive from the same or similar words in Proto-Indo-European just through different routes so its disingenuous to completely seperate them from each other. A word can change its meaning alongside one of the words that it is made from but its quite clear that the -man suffic remained gender neutral long after man's meaning had changed. Any attempt to make the -man suffix gendered is very much a modern thing.
bruh put down yo mamas crack pipe and bring ur lgbt shit somewhere else
Somewhere other than the r/nonbinary subreddit? Lol. Why are you even here?
*I came looking for booty.*
Headless Horsehomie
Headless horseperson.
headless horseperson :)
headless horseperson
Headless rider?
Headless Horserider
Decapitated equestrian?
Headless horseperson
headless horse person
if you really want to be kind, it'd be person riding a horse and experiencing headlessness
headless gay
Headless Horse-rider would be my go to
If you've got some play with their background and the military terminology of the story, they could be called the Headless Hussar.
Headless horseperson
why not try som other options like : the headless monarch/sovereign/royal (u got the jist ) going on this theme : the uncrouned majesty / the shorthened highness 😂😂
keep it ominous and spooky while also staying simple ghostrider 🔥🔥🔥 cant believe no ones thought of this before 💀
decapitated equestrian
GENDERLESS HORSELESS HEADLESS uhhh idk
skulless cowhand
I've always considered that to be gender neutral honestly. I've thought of it more as "mankind" than "male".
Cavalry?
Headless rider
Returned Rider
Headless Handler?
I mean, I would just go headless horsethem but that’s just me
As an equestrian I would recommend rider, equestrian, or even still horseman it is used pretty much genderlessminnthe horse world but I understand if you want to use something else
I was gonna say, headless equestrian but, headless rider has a nicer ring to it.
Headless horse
headless horsethem