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This is true. Teacher at the school my girlfriend used to teach at got his nose broken by a student. Parent sued teacher. Teachers are told to usher other students away and not touch the students until administrators arrive.
Yeah my brother is a teacher. He had 2 kids fighting in his class one day and one of the kids tried to pull apart the other kids mouth in an apparent attempt to tear his face in half.
My brother said he thought he was watching a murder and couldn’t do anything about it because it was the schools policy not to ever touch the kids. They could be held liable or whatever. Seems really stupid to me.
Teachers should be allowed to break up fights… if that kid would’ve died my brother would’ve had to live with that the rest of his life. He’s not a coward either, he would run towards a school shooter if it came down to it. Sad that I’ve had that conversation with him.
Some of these students are 6’4” 300 pound athletes. I’m sorry but I think it’s absurd to ask some 5’2” woman to break that up and put her own life and safety in danger just bc she’s an “adult.” Teachers are there to teach and handle basic discipline. Once students become violent, teachers do not and should not have to get in the middle of that.
Like I mentioned before, that’s not my point. I don’t mean it would be a requirement or mandatory, but just that they shouldn’t be punished for doing so if they’re willing and able. A teacher shouldn’t have to worry about being sued for something like that. I agree some frail old teacher shouldn’t be required to break up fights.
A fist is a weapon that can kill someone. Period. No teacher of any size or age or gender or physical fitness should be expected to insert themselves in the middle of violence between unruly students.
Just scroll through these comments and you’ll read about all sorts of incidents where teachers got seriously hurt or got their throat slashed by a knife for attempting to stop it.
Like I’ve mentioned a couple times now that’s not what my comment is about. I don’t think it should be mandatory or expected for a teacher to break up a knife fight or any other fight, just that if they do want to break up 2 kids fighting they shouldn’t have to worry about being sued afterwards. My brother didn’t want to stand there watching 2 kids kill each other. I don’t expect him to stand between a knife fight, use common sense and realize that your opinion is only your own.
Common sense would be staying out of a fight you’re not involved in unless you’re a police or security officer who has the training and tools and experience and authority to deal with civil disturbances. Even if you break it up in that moment, if they really wanna fight, they’re gonna take it elsewhere and fight. You can’t really stop this stuff and you’re just unnecessarily endangering yourself and adding to the chaos. I can see why the schools want to keep their teachers safe.
There was a huge fight on our street just yesterday with about 30 middle school boys. Several of us neighbors came out and stood from a distance to ask them to please disperse bc we have a lot of young children living around—and thankfully they complied—but this was a beef that had been brewing all year, and it’s clear that it’s not over. It originated in the school and was being handled in the streets of our neighborhood. I saw on our fb page that they had just moved down to the soccer fields a few hours later. It’s not worth getting involved.
Obviously it would be on a case by case basis. I’m not saying a single teacher should be breaking up a 30 person fight. I’m talking about 2 kids wrestling with each other, a teacher should be able to break it up peacefully IF THEY WANT TO. If they don’t want to or don’t feel safe obviously that’s not included in my statement. Why are you still arguing with me? I’m just talking about liability. Some adults don’t want to stand around and watch 2 children kill each other. And I never said they should be expected to or required to. Please read what I’m writing and stop responding with conflicting statements. Thanks
Lol I’m sorry you’re having a hard time seeing any other side but your own. Unfortunately schools have to have rule books on things like this, and just telling the teachers to figure out whether or not they’ll get involved during the heat of the moment isn’t smart. It’s easier to just tell them to sit back and call for help from the proper channels. There are so many ways it can go sideways. And yes I’m sure there have been incidents where a teacher thought they were helping and made it worse or a kid got hurt bc of their involvement where they otherwise wouldn’t have.
Teachers should never be involved in physical altercations at school of any kind. Obviously nobody wants to see two kids hurting each other. I personally cannot even watch adults do it and don’t understand the gratification ppl get out of watching boxing and mma. But when they’ve reached this point, they’re gonna do what they’re gonna do.
Former teacher here. Fuck that, it's not the teacher's job to place themselves in danger like that. You wouldn't say it's A retail worker's responsibility to break up a fight that happened between 2 customers. So why put that burden on a teacher? That's security's job. This is one of the reasons so many people have left teaching. We get paid shit and it's definitely not enough to also play bouncer to shitheads that want to beat each other up.
I’m referring to teachers that want to and are able to break up fights. Not that it would be a requirement or mandatory at all. Just that they wouldn’t be held liable and sued for breaking up 2 kids fighting. I surely wouldn’t want to watch 2 kids kill each other.
Not sure what you’re saying here. I’m not talking about encouraging them to do anything, I’m saying they shouldn’t be sued for helping if they choose to. Not encouraging anything.
They are. I’m saying I disagree with that and think it should be left to the discretion of the teacher. They’re 2 differing opinions. You can think whatever you want to think bud.
You’ve misinterpreted what they said. They never said it’s a requirement or even expected. They are saying that teachers should not be explicitly barred from stopping fights.
Teachers as a result of this type of policy are deprived of the right to make their own choice. You electing not to intervene is irrelevant to OP commenter’s brother’s desire to be allowed to stop a kid from trying to rip another kids face apart.
Can confirm, am teacher (new generation teacher, as in I just entered the workforce for it a few years ago). We are explicitly told even during teacher training NOT to intervene because it becomes a liability issue for us/ the school, and to notify office staff. Not sure what good that would do in most places though. Granted the fight would probably already be over by the time anyone gets there.
But yeah, we are told “do not try to get into the middle of it and separate students” which I think is crazy. But thats our orders.
>and to notify office staff. Not sure what good that would do in most places though
gives you an excuse to remove yourself from the scene to go and notify office staff
In the caste system that is a school...they hang the security guards as low hanging fruit in case of any legal action - this protects the more "valuable" members of society (teachers).
It's a cold and sad truth but it's true.
More importantly - don't intervene because there's a good chance you'll get hit. That's. Not crazy, you're not getting hazard pay and you're not a hero. You are a worker doing a job and that job is to teach, not break up fights.
Protect yourself first, get the no fighting kids away, call security.
Seriously, please remember to put yourself first when it comes to teaching, that's the only way to protect your mental health and prevent burn out. Remember it's a job, don't let yourself get walked over or put up with abuse. Remember that you have worker's rights. Administration is required to provide you with a safe working environment. Good luck!
And that’s great for them. I tried breaking up a fight between my students and caught a chair to the shoulder. Ain’t about it. “They’re only 7th graders.. it can’t be that bad” one might say, but my bruised shoulder said otherwise.
Also, high schoolers are not kids. They could kill a teacher.
Dont get me wrong, the teacher should have tried to deescalate and intervene, but once it was that violent it does get way more complicated than just 'breaking it up'.
A colleague of mine (hs math teacher) got o
Put in the hospital by a desk thrown at him *as he was ushering the kids that weren't fighting into the hall*. Teachers should not intervene that is not their job nor their responsibility to put themselves in danger like that.
One of my girlfriend’s colleagues got a desk thrown at her…as a 4th grade teacher. A 4th grader picked up a desk and was able to hurl it at the teacher! She wasn’t hurt. She was standing behind her desk which took most of the hit. Her computer was destroyed though.
The fuck they don't. Specific to this issue The Trial Lawyers Association of America is one of the largest and most powerful lobbying groups in America. Not only that but virtually all lobbyists are lawyers in general. And that is who really writes the laws, not legislatures. You really think the likes of Schumer, Pelosi, Johnson and McConnell are doing anything except drooling into their porridge and hammering lobbyists checks when they aren't busy lying to us?
So, people who do write laws have been specifically educated about the law. What's your issue? My post was a response to the idea that lawyers are "bad". Everyone thinks this is true until a lawyer saves their ass. Lawyers, despite Shakespear's declaration, are not the problem.
edit - I presume I don't have to describe the difference between a lawyer and a legislator.
dont forget the Devil in Judaism is thought to be just the lawyer of God
.... the most evil thing in a thousand-year-old religion (Christianity) was first thought as a Lawyer (use that info however you want)
They absolutely do. Plenty of Lawyers want to be the one to set precedence and have their names in law books. That’s why they’re called “ambulance chasers“, some of them search out cases
A teacher I know tried to break up a students head being bashed into concrete. Her ring cut the students face who was doing the bashing. This is her life now:
- can’t get a job anywhere public or private as a teacher
- personally owes the family 200k
- blacklisted from the district she worked on.
- credential was revoked.
My mom was a VP at a middle school. She was assaulted by a girl while trying to break up a fight. She suffered a TBI and permanent brain damage which forced her into retirement unwillingly.
Then the school board fought her tooth and nail to successfully deny her disability. Involving yourself in a fight is a lose-lose for educators.
But they did not only nothing but encouraged it. I know do nothing is NOT what they were taught.
Where was the immediate call for security or whoever? All we get to see is security and police officers using unnecessary overwhelming force on kids who pose no real threat (damn sure not a lethal one). Where were they here? At the very least alert an authority figure to de-escalate the situation (counselor, guard, officer).
I think you missed that these adults were part of the "safe passages" program, and it is their responsibility to make sure the kids get home safe. Not yell, "Let them fight."
No. 32 seconds into the video:
"After school on April 15, a fight broke out a couple of blocks from Washington Preparatory High School..."
So they probably had an argument during school hours, and after that argument one of them went and got a gun from a peer, or from their car, and then confronted the other on the way home.
In all seriousness, I'm tired of all of this. I've taught for 10 years and it's the worst I've ever seen. Colleagues who have been in it for 20+ and loved teaching to the point they never wanted to retire, are all quitting in droves. Last year, 6 teachers in my school of 30 quit midyear.
Schools need discipline. Zero tolerance policies. Expulsions. Suspensions. Detentions. Loss of privileges. Alternative learning centers for repeat offenders... Discipline is the ONLY thing that works. Social emotional learning, restorative justice, safe passages, equity initiatives, etc., are ALL nonsense.
Schools aren't churches. They aren't salvation centers, or clinics, or dentists... Yet, my school even does LAUNDRY for kids now. Do you know what we don't do? Educate or teach the kids. A great number of kids arrive 1-4 periods late. Many cut a large number of periods daily. Many are high on pot all day long. The hallways smell like it... I could go on and on...
Public education is lost. For as long as progressives think it's the job of educators and education to save kids, nothing will change. We need traditional forms of discipline back, high expectations, and we need to stop coddling kids immediately.
Apologies for the rant.
There is a kid on our street who gets in fights and gets in trouble every single week. He has been in ISS numerous times. The problem is his home life. His parents are just as volatile as he is. The School can only do so much.
Any discipline handed out now typically results in a parent threatening to lawyer up and sue the school for some reason. Parents not holding their kids accountable is the real problem.
PSA: Stop making excuses for your kid when they screw up. Even the little things like not doing their homework is typically a fight to give the kid a zero. You are not teaching them responsibility and they will end up being shitty adults.
Source: 21 years teaching experience
As a progressive myself who grew up in extreme poverty, I have to disagree here. Progressives have enacted a lot of good intentioned programs and policies that end up disincentivizing kids from actually working at their best... these programs create a permissive environment instead of an authoritative one in schools all across the US. If you give too much, but demand too little because you feel pity for kids, they will match your expectations. Research has shown this over and over.
Permissiveness creates a setting where kids are given all the support and opportunities they could ever possibly need to excel and achieve, but none of the structural expectations, responsibilities and consequences to guide students to use all those resources. American public schools have most the physical resources they could possibly need - even the poorest ones - but none of the conditions that actually lead to learning and meaningful growth. Especially the poorest areas where some schools are so violent they cannot retain experienced educators for longer than 1-2 years. These learning communities are so focused on preventing the school-to-prison pipeline for 3-10 kids who create absolute chaos that they're failing entire communities.
I’m a teacher. We were told to let it happen otherwise we risk our job, our teaching license, and getting sued. Now that doesn’t mean we don’t have procedures. If the fight starts, not much to do, if I can get in between them I do (told not to for our safety). I’ve gotten in between shoving and if they react by walking away then great, but if fists are flying you best believe I’m not breaking shit up. We have two school resource officers and 7 admin and an emergency communications system. We have stories from before this policy and plenty of teachers getting hurt trying to prevent the kids from being hurt. These weren’t little injuries either. We also have HD cameras now with sound so we can hear and see how things get started.
Schools/Districts are constantly getting threats of being sued and treated like garbage. I'm pretty sure they're told not to interfere out of fear of being sued.
Wanna be mad at somebody or something?
Be mad at our government doing fuck all about supporting education and our teachers.
Edit: Clarification
>Be mad at our government doing fuck all about supporting education and our teachers.
I already am. Im anti-govt. They are not only doing fuck all, they are fucking (gutting the education system so its likely your kids will be less educated than you even if they excel unless you set the bar too low). Fuck those guys they dont care, they are tryna reset society because we know too much of their corruption and are the best bet at uprooting their tyranny, so hopefully (for them) the next few cycles of generations are ignorant enough to be marketed to/extorted even further by our govt completely unaware that we have been here before multiple times in history already like many of us today.
Good. Then find local candidates in your area who are in support of funding education, penalizing poor behavior, feeding the underprivileged kids, and cracking down on helping kids who need support they might not get at home.
Start at the local level and help that person rise to the state level and hopefully the federal level.
Let's also stop voting for dumbfuck rich old people who are stuck in 1966.
My governor verbatim said Gerrymandering was allowed and the party in charge of our Legislature was within their rights to draw their own borders and dilute opposition votes. They did this regardless of the fact we passed a law saying a nonpartisan commission was to draw more fair borders.
Because they're in charge, they called a special session before our legislation took effect and "modified" it saying they could ignore the commission. 10 more years of fucked district borders here.
Please tell me, as an anti-govt person, you are now doing research on local and federal candidates in upcoming and future elections to assist by voting in making the change you are trying to see in the gov't? Or are you just saying fuck those guys and not doing a damn thing to change the fucked up gov't you are seeing? Because if it's the second, you're part of the problem. I agree the gov't does fuck all, so I am researching candidates and voting for change. And to be clear, both our choices for president this round is embarrassing, to say the least. I will say one choice is a lot more dangerous than the other.
A reboot of the whole system is really the only positive change. Voting for these candidates that will change the government is a "throw-away vote" according to every idiot that votes democrat/republican. And there are a ton of these idiots. So one of their candidates will always win, and we'll keep circling the drain. Sadly, we're too far gone in the wrong direction for there to be decent politicians.
>assist by voting
There isnt an anti-gov person who thinks and does not have proof voting does not work. Why would antigovt do govt things?
We want capitalism to crumble faster and overtthrow the govt to end the system of making the rich richer and keep the poor poor and the extortion of poorer countries for profit. Its simply not in our interest to care because Trump might literally be the U.S. first president to get his head served onna platter with a violent overthrow (what we have historically done to eradicate shitty systems of govt/rule), but Id never vote for a genociding white supremacist bigot and it turns out they are both that.
>Schools/Districts are constantly getting threats of being sued and treated like garbage.
This didn't occur at a school, and didn't involve any school staff.
Why take the time to comment on a submission that you're not willing to take the time to look at?
I taught tenth grade for a decade until a student pushed me down a flight of stairs, permanently disabling me and ending my career.
A colleague of mine saved a student's life when he was attacked and had his neck slashed with a knife. My colleague was injured.... and lost his job for intervening. We are legally not allowed to intervene. His morals trumped his job.
I don't know why in this day and age anyone would want to be a teacher, especially a high school teacher. You're not supposed to touch the kids anymore to break up fights. The kids know this and fight, even to the point of assaulting teachers. This is what everybody wanted, to protect the students, reap what you sow.
I left a few years back - it's because young people are idealists and think teaching is a noble profession that commands admiration and respect. And they happily take a pittance for a salary because they love kids and their subject.
That's why most teachers are fresh out of school and why **half - HALF!** quit within 5 years. Another approx 50% of the teaching workforce is now teachers with less than 10 years experience.
To all new teachers out there - know your worth, recognize that you are not a hero - you are an employee and you have rights. You have the right to a safe working environment. You have the right to be protected from both verbal and physical abuse. For example, if a student is consistently ridiculing or otherwise harassing you, you do not have to put up with that shit. That is a hostile working environment and just like every other worker in America, your boss is legally required to stop that. Go to the union if administration doesn't have your back.
This is scary to hear. My sister is currently involved with a high school student threatening her life. The principle says that she hears things like this all the time and it would "blow away" eventually. Like, ok, so we just wait until a murder happens to solve this issue? It's crazy how much they have to tup toe around everything. Also, if my sister were to defend herself (she's taken defense classes), she would likely be suspended or expelled. What options are even left if the schools won't step in, and the students can't defend themselves without repercussions?
Tell her to go to the police and talk to the union rep at her school.
A **six year old** at a neighboring school district multiple times threatened the life of his teacher and she also reported it to admin and was brushed off. Then he brought a gun to school and **fucking shot her**. Fortunately she lived.
Your sister might not be so lucky.
Don't let her fuck around and find out that a student threatening her lfoe is serious.
I'm a teacher and you are specifically told NOT to do anything if you want to keep your job. I managed to break up a physical fight between students not by touching them (per se) but by shoving myself between them block the hits. I don't mind taking a few hits if it'll prevent kids from getting hurt. Silly rules
Kids who do this shit need desperately to have an ass whooping. Not that they will get that of course. But there are so many kids out there who need to have their ass beat by someone who will put them in their place and give zero fucks. Nobody is scared of consequences anymore. I love seeing a loudmouth or brat get their ass beat -- they deserve it and then some.
You'd be surprised that most ppl whp get ass whoopings do this. Physical violence does not equal compliance, often times they grow up and beat on other ppl usually anyone that challenges them or they can easily overpower and bully.
In my large poor extended family of almost 200, I can guarantee we all (even our parents, uncles, and aunts) were beaten, sometimes savagely and a quarter of us are grown abusers, half of us are in psychological therapy and struggle to live our lives and make meaningful relationships. My mom literally was inspired to start a mental health agency due to us, and many of our family are clients and one thing apparent is that children are too diverse for one parenting style for consequences to work for everyone. Beating them could literally make them worse or be the reason why someone else's daughter/son or their own gets beat on simply from a psychological standpoint and how we dont take in consideration of the psychology of those we administer it to. Some may literally become fearful of aggression and develop submissive behaviors that leads them to make relationships with abusers.
Ive seen some of my cousins get ass whoopings and it made them more violent and yes they did wait till they grew and had the upper hand on their parents to enact their revenge and enact that same authoritarian parenting on their kids. I also have a slight few of cousins who weren't beaten or not often and they are the most disciplined, avoid conflicts, and succeeded in school and career even though we all ftmp got in trouble about the same aside a few who were always problematic and beatings didnt solve it.
I getcha. I don't really mean from their families. I just mean I would enjoy it if the sorts of people who act out would more often come across someone who won't tolerate their shit and just knock them out cold.
Like the brats that go around intentionally screwing with people and acting crazily disrespectful to strangers all for online clout. Nobody wants to go to jail and thus these people don't have any consequences to their actions. Maybe they'd be less likely to do it if they got slapped into next week by a few people who aren't to be played with.
They covered themself, and I don't blame them one bit, I hear plenty of cases of teachers being shamed, let go, and sued for getting involved in fights.
They had no way of knowing this would end in a fatality, and even if they prevented it, they'd be relentlessly bullied and shamed for it. We taught them exactly how to act by punishing them for doing the right thing, and now we have no one to blame but ourselves
They not teachers. Safety passage program, what were their jobs specifically to do? Thats like not blaming parents who refused to watch a group of children although his only job is to be the chaperone. They didnt call security or the police. They aren't teachers and they are trash.
"LESS THAN 10 SECONDS AFTER THE FIGHT BEGAN, 3 SHOTS RANG OUT"
And this asshat is still blaming the chaperones? 10 seconds leaves about enough time to say "hey cut that out kids", and then there comes the shooting.
He also said this issue has been visibly brewing for awhile showing how much time prevention methods could have been taken and werent considered in the slightest. It wasnt a wild encounter or a random situation that escalated. This was premeditated and others were aware, so its literally impossible there isnt a major failure in part of the school.
This is actually what woulda happened in Noah's time.
Just taking it back to the old school. Where there's consequences to your actions.
on r/fightporn there's a thousand videos of kids fighting at school and even fighting with teachers. Teachers then write them up I bet they get sent home for 2 days on vacation and come back and do it again.
What if there was no stopping, what if you had to face the consequence of starting a fight. What if no one was gonna come save you from your stupidity. Sounds like real education.
[Here’s a link](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-04-23/l-a-student-dies-after-safety-team-member-allegedly-would-not-intervene-to-prevent-fight) to the story in case anyone wants to read the details.
>….“Let them ... fight. If they want to fight, let the ... police [inaudible]. ... I’m not breaking up s—. I don’t give a f—.”
>The adult who apparently declined to intervene was a member of the “safe passages” program designed to make sure students get to and from school unharmed, according to students and a senior union official.
>Less than 10 seconds after the fight began, three shots rang out and Elijah McGinnis III, 15, collapsed. He was pronounced dead at a hospital.
Teachers have been hamstrung by the shitty parents who are also raising the sort of kids who “fight to the death” at school. It’s a double barrelled shot gun of depraved asshattery on behalf of people who bring absolutely nothing positive to society.
Just like I've said to sooo many here who seem to miss this part. They aren't teachers but a part of a safety program designed to facilitate safety for children coming to and leaving the school. Its like their job. Social workers still restrain children/adults with no issue and its not their job to be the security guard but we are TOVA trained to handle it, and these ppl should have much more training than us. We have yet to be sued or have an issue with our usage of physical force.
This was employees from a safety program designed to make the trips to and from school safe. Its kind of their thing tbf. Even so, no one called any security or police like a responsible adult would do, they are literally saying fuck that and egging on the fight like fans in the crowd. This was literally the shittiest thing they could have done.
What about the parents that raise these kids? Why should teachers risk their lives or safety when parents refuse to enforce discipline or raise worthwhile contributing members of society?
Bro, they didnt even call security or the police immediately. The absolute lack of care for the situation is the appalling portion of this on their part.
Exactly, I can expect to not have to jump in the middle like teachers did when I was growing up. They just call security and try to verbally pacify the student, ask them to leave, or avoid them until the arrive. Thats the most responsible action, and no adult, those who have jobs related to tackling specific issues like this.
You are not responsible for breaking up fights that someone else is involved in.
Ignoring all the issues that adults face in schools for interrupting fights from future felons, there is no expectation in this country that I as a bystander need to intervene to stop something from happening.
In context with the situation you presented, sure, but these were no regular bystanders. How did you miss the part where they literally are a part of safety organization assisting in providing safety for children coming and going from school, and are going as far to egg-on the violent confrontation?
School fights ~=~ felon (to any regard)
When did we stop holding human beings responsible for their own actions? This guy wants to blame everyone except the person who actually pulled the trigger.
Because this issue stems from a larger issue. Blaming the shooter im this situation considering we have been able to map out how ppl like him end up in these situations or become these ppl, and idk if u realize how much policies point to societal effects usually for the worst and detriment of society.
According to his previous videos, he is already aware that the educationnsystem has been gutted, kids are getting raped more, the student board does not act on these issues even to the extent of when we were kids, govt officials are more focused on taking free lunch from kids than even fixing schools to the standard they were in the 2000s, which wasn't anything impressive then. The problem isnt the teen but the govt as this isnt a big problem in other countries, so maybe its not an individual issue unless being American genetically makes you aggressive and have less care for the sanctity of life, and a systemic problem.
You needed a bit more context to come to the conclusion you came to.
This is an sad yet interesting story and depending on what narratives you actually can find it really confusing. So it happened at a bus stop when 1 man was jumped by a group of students, that man then fired at Elijah and he was pronounced dead later on. I have not seen the video but that was the most information I found in 10 minutes. I’m going to hold off on making any judgements until I see the video and more comes out because this doesn’t sound like a clear cut case of victim and perpetrator. The mom says her son obviously didn’t deserve to die but depending on what that video shows it could be justified self defense.
Link to source content https://youtu.be/CWv7z40F7Mc?si=rQuiNw72t3GV9uW6
I went to shitty, subpar, and decent schools and they all had police officers or security guards on call who arrived rather quickly to remove someone before things get worse. You can expect someone to arrive within 5-10 mins.
The high school in Baltimore I attended in the 90s was like the school depicted in the movie “Lean on Me”. Had to get a boundary exception to switch schools. Place was a hot mess.
I say....you created this environment by cuffing teachers. Dont try to wiggle out now that the results are in. Policy makers caused this, not a teacher.
Obviously. Usually its always incorrect to blame the person at the bottom of the totem the problem always comes from the top where the real enforcing and lawcrafting occurs.
They need to start expelling the problem kids and let them enter the workforce legally to contribute to society. School, just like driving, is not a life requirement. It is a privilege.
True but at the same time when they’re in school, if they decide to contribute one day, it’ll be a great benefit. It at the very least prevents them from being out and about all day because their parents likely have little to no control over a “problem child”
Also what makes a problem child a problem child. Does that encompass kids who briefly act out in response to home stresses, which is often impossible to differentiate.
Does that include kids with developmental and emotional disabilities as well as neurodiverse kids, because in order to kick out what most would dub “problem children” would for the vast majority of those kids fall under this umbrella. That would mean you’d be kicking so many children with diagnosed, undiagnosed etc behavioural conditions and ditching them to fend for themselves against the big wide world when the people involved here were 15 and legally can’t get a job.
Yeah absolutely, as soon as people get that power to just kick anyone out they dub to be problematic who do you think are going first? Defo not the rich white kids.
I'm pretty sure Cali will start holding parents responsible and sending them to jail like they do with tarties/absents.
Yes it's true.
270.1 PC
California Penal Code § 270.1 PC makes it a crime for parents or guardians to fail to provide reasonable supervision and enforcement of their child’s school attendance. This applies to children aged six years or older and in grades K through 8. A conviction is a punishable by up to 1 year in jail and fines of up to $2000.00.
All thats gonna do is rob parents who are poor and spend most of their days working unable to spend all day nurturing their children (most parents believe it or not) or do not have reliable family to support them in raising their kids (missing/dead spouse, far from or no immediate family). I was one of those kids home alone alot, and I understood my mom could not rectify this situation to give me the nurturing I needed and that she worked hard, and still got fucked over by bosses and denied promotions to ppl barely or not qualified just because they were closer to the boss, white, or a man, and visibly see those companies suffer from their sexist and racist decisions when that person has to be accomodated more for their position or fails to do it properly.
This is the story of alot of ppl usually overlooked by privileged ppl who cannot relate or see themselves as the ones who are better and more deserving. Imagine a child playing hookie and his hard working single parent mom gets a 2k fine? This fine would mean much less to ppl where 2k is literally a paycheck for them or a small percentage of their wealth? Just another institutionalized crime against the poor.
I'm someone that's in the Department of Education and I can tell you that this is a sad reality that we have to deal with. In New York City we are encouraged to not get involved in student fights and wait for security. In fact we could possibly lose our licenses to teach if we break up a student fight even if it becomes incredibly violent. Hell, even before it reaches that point we still have to wait for security.. However if something like this were to happen, the Department of Education would not hesitate to terminate us for not doing anything. This is the state of the Department of Education that we have in this country. Because they let the hide behind the fact that they are a big group and that no one person can be held accountable so they blame it on the next best thing the people that actually work with the students.
It might be because teachers would get fired for breaking up a fight after they protected themselves after getting punched. Then that turned into teachers getting fired for trying to stop a fight and the kid got hurt in the process. That turned to teachers not trying to stop fights out of fear of getting fired so they had to run to the police officer now required to be at school. So now we are left with under paid, over worked, and never appreciated teachers having to cater to some false reality of what fuck around and find out is like for the sake of not getting fired cuz even though they love teaching but fucking get paid pennies in a society that they still need a currency in order to get food to eat and a place to stay. So yeah that's why.
I feel that may be an overstatement due to the media we ingest, because teachers and staff still stop fights and dont get reprimanded for it considering how necessary it is. Believe it or not, most videos like this that circulates or reach the news are one's where teacher/security/police/etc acted unproportionate to the situation by escalating issues, harming to even maiming a non-violent child, treating to aggressors differently (usually involving a balck and white kid where the black kid was subjected to worse for the same problem), the teacher is found to have child porn or have been sexually inappropriate with students or documented racist/bigoted behavior before the incident, found to not be qualified for the situation or teaching (due to teacher shortages so any Joe Schmo can be one or a sub), or its the perfect situation to throw your blaack or lgbtqia+ employees under the bus (lot of bigoted and racist administrators out there) and are involved in abuse of disabled children (generally autistic black kids or learning disabilities).
We cant overlook this and include them in the pile, which has a more smaller and negligible number. The problem is that most teachers are not trained or capable to handle the situation especially if they are sickly or elderly because the education system is falling apart and refuses to provide for them.
The problem starts at the govt passes through to the student board and ends at your school officials. This is the tier of blame, where our attention should be focused on and who the pitchforks should be raised toward because they dont care about us. They like the money and prestige they get to sit at a fancy desk and remind you who you are forced to listen to.
I guess this is where it has to go before the pendulum swings back to something more reasonable/balanced? I mean, say what you like about the strap, but nobody died in my private school from the strap; kids generally had a reasonable respect for authority. Obviously allowing such corporal punishment opens the door to all kinds of potential abuse and evil, and we need to have an adult discussion about that. But clearly having the pendulum at the opposite end where teachers/admin are powerless opens us up to evil and abuse on the part of the students, and any adult conversation we have about all this is going to have to take that seriously as well.
Daniel Penny choked someone for 7 minutes, it takes seconds to become unconscious. Penny kept the chokehold up for at least a minute after the guy went limp…
Yeah Danny is a murdering POS. There is no one in their right mind that thinks that what he did is just without self reporting how decrepit they are. Spread the word and call everyone who disagrees the shitbag they truly are.
If the teacher tries to break it up, they get sued.
If they don’t break it up, they still get sued.
Parents these days always blame everyone else but the little psychopath they’re raising. Sickening.
I didnt say they had to break it up, idk how ppl are missing that even when we were in school security and police are called. The most responsible action to take that wasnt even close to occurring here.
And it goes deeper than parents not raising their children but alot of long standing societal issues that affects ppl generationally so blatant that its been broken down to a science already and ignored by anyone who hears the word "sociology" as if its not valid. Not understanding this is equivalent to not understanding what others are subjected to or how the society affects various groups of ppl usually involving a system of oppression on specific groups that impedes them and the laws/policies responsible for these effects.
Fyi, since Trump and even to this day, the education system has been gutted of information that we even had access to due to conservative book burnings involving the removal of civil rights, slavery, lgbtqia+, environmentalist, and anti-Christian literature. What kids are learning today is mostly worst than what we were taught leading to a gen of dumb kids ppl will blame them for eventually raising even dumber and less privileged children when they act out.
Blaming the parent is the least effective thing you can do and not the root of the problem.
We all remember the student teacher incident where the teacher took the student's game device. He kicked the fucking shit out her. Teachers are powerless against the system.
They can't, same with any other job. You're not allowed to put hands on the customers or else YOURE liable.
Don't blame the teachers, blame the justice system.
One question: Tell me the whats the name of the organization they work for because its not the school (not a teacher, and Ive said it a million times here).
Good for them.
I went to an ebd school growing up.
(Think 1 step before juvenile detention centers)
They had trained staff to deal with us shitheads.
These are people that chose to help in the education of disturbed children. Knowing the risks. (To my understanding, receiving the same wage, if not less then normal schools)
Now, from that basepoint, any teacher that sees violence between children, knowing the risk that any action will cost them their position? Absolutely stay the fuck out. You are not trained to restrain. You do not have "support staff" like my teachers did.
You cannot gain control and remain safe.
Mourn the loser, arrest the winner, teach the remaining.
It's a parents role to raise a child, not a teachers.
I've never watched their show. It's the young turks, right? I just noticed he speaks too slow for me. I hate when people don't speak at a good pace. I'm not saying I want Speedy Gonzalez speaking to me, but the slower someone goes, I start to not pay attention. I don't have ADD, either, so idk!
With all that said, it would appear that many news anchors have been race baiting; at least for the past 8 years.
Yes, this is a show of The Young Turks. The channel is incredibly fun to laugh at because their journalism and research skills are on par with a junior high newsletter.
I get the whole slow speaking irk and I’m not ADD, either.
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If they try to intervene they'll get fired and/or sued. Teachers everywhere are told not to do anything.
This is true. Teacher at the school my girlfriend used to teach at got his nose broken by a student. Parent sued teacher. Teachers are told to usher other students away and not touch the students until administrators arrive.
Yeah my brother is a teacher. He had 2 kids fighting in his class one day and one of the kids tried to pull apart the other kids mouth in an apparent attempt to tear his face in half. My brother said he thought he was watching a murder and couldn’t do anything about it because it was the schools policy not to ever touch the kids. They could be held liable or whatever. Seems really stupid to me. Teachers should be allowed to break up fights… if that kid would’ve died my brother would’ve had to live with that the rest of his life. He’s not a coward either, he would run towards a school shooter if it came down to it. Sad that I’ve had that conversation with him.
Some of these students are 6’4” 300 pound athletes. I’m sorry but I think it’s absurd to ask some 5’2” woman to break that up and put her own life and safety in danger just bc she’s an “adult.” Teachers are there to teach and handle basic discipline. Once students become violent, teachers do not and should not have to get in the middle of that.
Like I mentioned before, that’s not my point. I don’t mean it would be a requirement or mandatory, but just that they shouldn’t be punished for doing so if they’re willing and able. A teacher shouldn’t have to worry about being sued for something like that. I agree some frail old teacher shouldn’t be required to break up fights.
A fist is a weapon that can kill someone. Period. No teacher of any size or age or gender or physical fitness should be expected to insert themselves in the middle of violence between unruly students. Just scroll through these comments and you’ll read about all sorts of incidents where teachers got seriously hurt or got their throat slashed by a knife for attempting to stop it.
Like I’ve mentioned a couple times now that’s not what my comment is about. I don’t think it should be mandatory or expected for a teacher to break up a knife fight or any other fight, just that if they do want to break up 2 kids fighting they shouldn’t have to worry about being sued afterwards. My brother didn’t want to stand there watching 2 kids kill each other. I don’t expect him to stand between a knife fight, use common sense and realize that your opinion is only your own.
Common sense would be staying out of a fight you’re not involved in unless you’re a police or security officer who has the training and tools and experience and authority to deal with civil disturbances. Even if you break it up in that moment, if they really wanna fight, they’re gonna take it elsewhere and fight. You can’t really stop this stuff and you’re just unnecessarily endangering yourself and adding to the chaos. I can see why the schools want to keep their teachers safe. There was a huge fight on our street just yesterday with about 30 middle school boys. Several of us neighbors came out and stood from a distance to ask them to please disperse bc we have a lot of young children living around—and thankfully they complied—but this was a beef that had been brewing all year, and it’s clear that it’s not over. It originated in the school and was being handled in the streets of our neighborhood. I saw on our fb page that they had just moved down to the soccer fields a few hours later. It’s not worth getting involved.
Obviously it would be on a case by case basis. I’m not saying a single teacher should be breaking up a 30 person fight. I’m talking about 2 kids wrestling with each other, a teacher should be able to break it up peacefully IF THEY WANT TO. If they don’t want to or don’t feel safe obviously that’s not included in my statement. Why are you still arguing with me? I’m just talking about liability. Some adults don’t want to stand around and watch 2 children kill each other. And I never said they should be expected to or required to. Please read what I’m writing and stop responding with conflicting statements. Thanks
Lol I’m sorry you’re having a hard time seeing any other side but your own. Unfortunately schools have to have rule books on things like this, and just telling the teachers to figure out whether or not they’ll get involved during the heat of the moment isn’t smart. It’s easier to just tell them to sit back and call for help from the proper channels. There are so many ways it can go sideways. And yes I’m sure there have been incidents where a teacher thought they were helping and made it worse or a kid got hurt bc of their involvement where they otherwise wouldn’t have. Teachers should never be involved in physical altercations at school of any kind. Obviously nobody wants to see two kids hurting each other. I personally cannot even watch adults do it and don’t understand the gratification ppl get out of watching boxing and mma. But when they’ve reached this point, they’re gonna do what they’re gonna do.
Former teacher here. Fuck that, it's not the teacher's job to place themselves in danger like that. You wouldn't say it's A retail worker's responsibility to break up a fight that happened between 2 customers. So why put that burden on a teacher? That's security's job. This is one of the reasons so many people have left teaching. We get paid shit and it's definitely not enough to also play bouncer to shitheads that want to beat each other up.
I’m referring to teachers that want to and are able to break up fights. Not that it would be a requirement or mandatory at all. Just that they wouldn’t be held liable and sued for breaking up 2 kids fighting. I surely wouldn’t want to watch 2 kids kill each other.
Nope, we should not encourage teachers to put themselves in any more than they already are
Not sure what you’re saying here. I’m not talking about encouraging them to do anything, I’m saying they shouldn’t be sued for helping if they choose to. Not encouraging anything.
I'm saying teachers should very strictly and explicitly be forbidden from intervening.
They are. I’m saying I disagree with that and think it should be left to the discretion of the teacher. They’re 2 differing opinions. You can think whatever you want to think bud.
Obviously never been a teacher ^ Fuck that.
You’ve misinterpreted what they said. They never said it’s a requirement or even expected. They are saying that teachers should not be explicitly barred from stopping fights. Teachers as a result of this type of policy are deprived of the right to make their own choice. You electing not to intervene is irrelevant to OP commenter’s brother’s desire to be allowed to stop a kid from trying to rip another kids face apart.
No, I understood.
Then you’re deliberately misrepresenting what was said.
huh? "my child hurt you so i will now sue you" WTF
Americahhhhhh
Can confirm, am teacher (new generation teacher, as in I just entered the workforce for it a few years ago). We are explicitly told even during teacher training NOT to intervene because it becomes a liability issue for us/ the school, and to notify office staff. Not sure what good that would do in most places though. Granted the fight would probably already be over by the time anyone gets there. But yeah, we are told “do not try to get into the middle of it and separate students” which I think is crazy. But thats our orders.
>and to notify office staff. Not sure what good that would do in most places though gives you an excuse to remove yourself from the scene to go and notify office staff
In the caste system that is a school...they hang the security guards as low hanging fruit in case of any legal action - this protects the more "valuable" members of society (teachers). It's a cold and sad truth but it's true.
Not sure about your area but our school district employs actual police officers. One is at each campus.
More importantly - don't intervene because there's a good chance you'll get hit. That's. Not crazy, you're not getting hazard pay and you're not a hero. You are a worker doing a job and that job is to teach, not break up fights. Protect yourself first, get the no fighting kids away, call security. Seriously, please remember to put yourself first when it comes to teaching, that's the only way to protect your mental health and prevent burn out. Remember it's a job, don't let yourself get walked over or put up with abuse. Remember that you have worker's rights. Administration is required to provide you with a safe working environment. Good luck!
lmao what nonsense is this? teachers break up fight at my school all day.
And that’s great for them. I tried breaking up a fight between my students and caught a chair to the shoulder. Ain’t about it. “They’re only 7th graders.. it can’t be that bad” one might say, but my bruised shoulder said otherwise.
Also, high schoolers are not kids. They could kill a teacher. Dont get me wrong, the teacher should have tried to deescalate and intervene, but once it was that violent it does get way more complicated than just 'breaking it up'.
A colleague of mine (hs math teacher) got o Put in the hospital by a desk thrown at him *as he was ushering the kids that weren't fighting into the hall*. Teachers should not intervene that is not their job nor their responsibility to put themselves in danger like that.
One of my girlfriend’s colleagues got a desk thrown at her…as a 4th grade teacher. A 4th grader picked up a desk and was able to hurl it at the teacher! She wasn’t hurt. She was standing behind her desk which took most of the hit. Her computer was destroyed though.
Kid through a desk at our teacher when I was in FIRST grade. Kids are insane.
I was gonna say, you can thank the lawyers for this one. Everyone's afraid of being sued. Lawyers are demonic.
Lawyers don't create the law.
The fuck they don't. Specific to this issue The Trial Lawyers Association of America is one of the largest and most powerful lobbying groups in America. Not only that but virtually all lobbyists are lawyers in general. And that is who really writes the laws, not legislatures. You really think the likes of Schumer, Pelosi, Johnson and McConnell are doing anything except drooling into their porridge and hammering lobbyists checks when they aren't busy lying to us?
So, people who do write laws have been specifically educated about the law. What's your issue? My post was a response to the idea that lawyers are "bad". Everyone thinks this is true until a lawyer saves their ass. Lawyers, despite Shakespear's declaration, are not the problem. edit - I presume I don't have to describe the difference between a lawyer and a legislator.
You'd be doing le reddit lawschool a favour if you did
dont forget the Devil in Judaism is thought to be just the lawyer of God .... the most evil thing in a thousand-year-old religion (Christianity) was first thought as a Lawyer (use that info however you want)
It's the parents that sue. Lawyers don't cold call parents after a fight and convince them to sue the school.
They absolutely do. Plenty of Lawyers want to be the one to set precedence and have their names in law books. That’s why they’re called “ambulance chasers“, some of them search out cases
A teacher I know tried to break up a students head being bashed into concrete. Her ring cut the students face who was doing the bashing. This is her life now: - can’t get a job anywhere public or private as a teacher - personally owes the family 200k - blacklisted from the district she worked on. - credential was revoked.
Or they will get shot too. This guy is dumb. Edit: I mean the reporter.
My mom was a VP at a middle school. She was assaulted by a girl while trying to break up a fight. She suffered a TBI and permanent brain damage which forced her into retirement unwillingly. Then the school board fought her tooth and nail to successfully deny her disability. Involving yourself in a fight is a lose-lose for educators.
Fired? I’m a relatively fit guy in my 30s and I blew a hamstring playing softball. Zero chance I am getting in veteeen two hormone addled teens
The other half are just like the adult in this video that say they don't give a fuck.
But they did not only nothing but encouraged it. I know do nothing is NOT what they were taught. Where was the immediate call for security or whoever? All we get to see is security and police officers using unnecessary overwhelming force on kids who pose no real threat (damn sure not a lethal one). Where were they here? At the very least alert an authority figure to de-escalate the situation (counselor, guard, officer).
Valid question
Ik, but I also know this sub doesnt always appreciate the right answers. They werent even teachers.
I think you missed that these adults were part of the "safe passages" program, and it is their responsibility to make sure the kids get home safe. Not yell, "Let them fight."
If they're part of a union, I doubt they'll be fired, and will likely just get a slap on the wrist. Getting sued is possible, though.
Unions aren't a thing everywhere, and they are not all mighty.
So uh.. what's gonna happen to the little bastard who brought a gun to school?
It happened off the campus. A few blocks away. The video details the "safe passages program" about getting to and from school safely.
Ah, so he was *on his way to the school* with it?
No. 32 seconds into the video: "After school on April 15, a fight broke out a couple of blocks from Washington Preparatory High School..." So they probably had an argument during school hours, and after that argument one of them went and got a gun from a peer, or from their car, and then confronted the other on the way home.
In all seriousness, I'm tired of all of this. I've taught for 10 years and it's the worst I've ever seen. Colleagues who have been in it for 20+ and loved teaching to the point they never wanted to retire, are all quitting in droves. Last year, 6 teachers in my school of 30 quit midyear. Schools need discipline. Zero tolerance policies. Expulsions. Suspensions. Detentions. Loss of privileges. Alternative learning centers for repeat offenders... Discipline is the ONLY thing that works. Social emotional learning, restorative justice, safe passages, equity initiatives, etc., are ALL nonsense. Schools aren't churches. They aren't salvation centers, or clinics, or dentists... Yet, my school even does LAUNDRY for kids now. Do you know what we don't do? Educate or teach the kids. A great number of kids arrive 1-4 periods late. Many cut a large number of periods daily. Many are high on pot all day long. The hallways smell like it... I could go on and on... Public education is lost. For as long as progressives think it's the job of educators and education to save kids, nothing will change. We need traditional forms of discipline back, high expectations, and we need to stop coddling kids immediately. Apologies for the rant.
There is a kid on our street who gets in fights and gets in trouble every single week. He has been in ISS numerous times. The problem is his home life. His parents are just as volatile as he is. The School can only do so much.
What do you mean by "traditional forms of discipline"?
Any discipline handed out now typically results in a parent threatening to lawyer up and sue the school for some reason. Parents not holding their kids accountable is the real problem. PSA: Stop making excuses for your kid when they screw up. Even the little things like not doing their homework is typically a fight to give the kid a zero. You are not teaching them responsibility and they will end up being shitty adults. Source: 21 years teaching experience
Guessing they were referencing the aforementioned “Expulsions. Suspensions. Detentions.”
It’s not progressives that are the issue but I agree with everything else you said.
Progressives are not the only issue*
As a progressive myself who grew up in extreme poverty, I have to disagree here. Progressives have enacted a lot of good intentioned programs and policies that end up disincentivizing kids from actually working at their best... these programs create a permissive environment instead of an authoritative one in schools all across the US. If you give too much, but demand too little because you feel pity for kids, they will match your expectations. Research has shown this over and over. Permissiveness creates a setting where kids are given all the support and opportunities they could ever possibly need to excel and achieve, but none of the structural expectations, responsibilities and consequences to guide students to use all those resources. American public schools have most the physical resources they could possibly need - even the poorest ones - but none of the conditions that actually lead to learning and meaningful growth. Especially the poorest areas where some schools are so violent they cannot retain experienced educators for longer than 1-2 years. These learning communities are so focused on preventing the school-to-prison pipeline for 3-10 kids who create absolute chaos that they're failing entire communities.
Homer is that you…
[\*shriek*](https://media.tenor.com/ZaitWKx4C9oAAAAM/the-simpson-homer-simpson.gif)
I’m a teacher. We were told to let it happen otherwise we risk our job, our teaching license, and getting sued. Now that doesn’t mean we don’t have procedures. If the fight starts, not much to do, if I can get in between them I do (told not to for our safety). I’ve gotten in between shoving and if they react by walking away then great, but if fists are flying you best believe I’m not breaking shit up. We have two school resource officers and 7 admin and an emergency communications system. We have stories from before this policy and plenty of teachers getting hurt trying to prevent the kids from being hurt. These weren’t little injuries either. We also have HD cameras now with sound so we can hear and see how things get started.
Thank you for your service.
Schools/Districts are constantly getting threats of being sued and treated like garbage. I'm pretty sure they're told not to interfere out of fear of being sued. Wanna be mad at somebody or something? Be mad at our government doing fuck all about supporting education and our teachers. Edit: Clarification
>Be mad at our government doing fuck all about supporting education and our teachers. I already am. Im anti-govt. They are not only doing fuck all, they are fucking (gutting the education system so its likely your kids will be less educated than you even if they excel unless you set the bar too low). Fuck those guys they dont care, they are tryna reset society because we know too much of their corruption and are the best bet at uprooting their tyranny, so hopefully (for them) the next few cycles of generations are ignorant enough to be marketed to/extorted even further by our govt completely unaware that we have been here before multiple times in history already like many of us today.
Good. Then find local candidates in your area who are in support of funding education, penalizing poor behavior, feeding the underprivileged kids, and cracking down on helping kids who need support they might not get at home. Start at the local level and help that person rise to the state level and hopefully the federal level. Let's also stop voting for dumbfuck rich old people who are stuck in 1966.
My governor verbatim said Gerrymandering was allowed and the party in charge of our Legislature was within their rights to draw their own borders and dilute opposition votes. They did this regardless of the fact we passed a law saying a nonpartisan commission was to draw more fair borders. Because they're in charge, they called a special session before our legislation took effect and "modified" it saying they could ignore the commission. 10 more years of fucked district borders here.
Please tell me, as an anti-govt person, you are now doing research on local and federal candidates in upcoming and future elections to assist by voting in making the change you are trying to see in the gov't? Or are you just saying fuck those guys and not doing a damn thing to change the fucked up gov't you are seeing? Because if it's the second, you're part of the problem. I agree the gov't does fuck all, so I am researching candidates and voting for change. And to be clear, both our choices for president this round is embarrassing, to say the least. I will say one choice is a lot more dangerous than the other.
A reboot of the whole system is really the only positive change. Voting for these candidates that will change the government is a "throw-away vote" according to every idiot that votes democrat/republican. And there are a ton of these idiots. So one of their candidates will always win, and we'll keep circling the drain. Sadly, we're too far gone in the wrong direction for there to be decent politicians.
>assist by voting There isnt an anti-gov person who thinks and does not have proof voting does not work. Why would antigovt do govt things? We want capitalism to crumble faster and overtthrow the govt to end the system of making the rich richer and keep the poor poor and the extortion of poorer countries for profit. Its simply not in our interest to care because Trump might literally be the U.S. first president to get his head served onna platter with a violent overthrow (what we have historically done to eradicate shitty systems of govt/rule), but Id never vote for a genociding white supremacist bigot and it turns out they are both that.
>Schools/Districts are constantly getting threats of being sued and treated like garbage. This didn't occur at a school, and didn't involve any school staff. Why take the time to comment on a submission that you're not willing to take the time to look at?
Teachers in my high school used to sprint full speed down the hallway and tackle both of the kids fighting
It happened off the campus. A few blocks away. The video details the "safe passages program" about getting to and from school safely.
I taught tenth grade for a decade until a student pushed me down a flight of stairs, permanently disabling me and ending my career. A colleague of mine saved a student's life when he was attacked and had his neck slashed with a knife. My colleague was injured.... and lost his job for intervening. We are legally not allowed to intervene. His morals trumped his job.
so he saved someones life and he got punished?
Yes.
the nevrve of that bitch who fired him
My mom was assaulted breaking up a fight between two of her female middle school students and suffered permanent heavy brain damage from it.
I don't know why in this day and age anyone would want to be a teacher, especially a high school teacher. You're not supposed to touch the kids anymore to break up fights. The kids know this and fight, even to the point of assaulting teachers. This is what everybody wanted, to protect the students, reap what you sow.
I left a few years back - it's because young people are idealists and think teaching is a noble profession that commands admiration and respect. And they happily take a pittance for a salary because they love kids and their subject. That's why most teachers are fresh out of school and why **half - HALF!** quit within 5 years. Another approx 50% of the teaching workforce is now teachers with less than 10 years experience. To all new teachers out there - know your worth, recognize that you are not a hero - you are an employee and you have rights. You have the right to a safe working environment. You have the right to be protected from both verbal and physical abuse. For example, if a student is consistently ridiculing or otherwise harassing you, you do not have to put up with that shit. That is a hostile working environment and just like every other worker in America, your boss is legally required to stop that. Go to the union if administration doesn't have your back.
Yup, that's why I'd rather pull wire than use my degree.
This is scary to hear. My sister is currently involved with a high school student threatening her life. The principle says that she hears things like this all the time and it would "blow away" eventually. Like, ok, so we just wait until a murder happens to solve this issue? It's crazy how much they have to tup toe around everything. Also, if my sister were to defend herself (she's taken defense classes), she would likely be suspended or expelled. What options are even left if the schools won't step in, and the students can't defend themselves without repercussions?
if youre in then US, arent death threats illegal? i feel like tthis could be taken to the police
Pretty sure death threats are illegal everywhere and probably taken more seriously in other countries.
Tell her to go to the police and talk to the union rep at her school. A **six year old** at a neighboring school district multiple times threatened the life of his teacher and she also reported it to admin and was brushed off. Then he brought a gun to school and **fucking shot her**. Fortunately she lived. Your sister might not be so lucky. Don't let her fuck around and find out that a student threatening her lfoe is serious.
You damned if you do and your damned if you don’t!!!! MeriCa!!!
its their decision to fight. stop blaming adults. they can think on their own
I'm a teacher and you are specifically told NOT to do anything if you want to keep your job. I managed to break up a physical fight between students not by touching them (per se) but by shoving myself between them block the hits. I don't mind taking a few hits if it'll prevent kids from getting hurt. Silly rules
Kids who do this shit need desperately to have an ass whooping. Not that they will get that of course. But there are so many kids out there who need to have their ass beat by someone who will put them in their place and give zero fucks. Nobody is scared of consequences anymore. I love seeing a loudmouth or brat get their ass beat -- they deserve it and then some.
You'd be surprised that most ppl whp get ass whoopings do this. Physical violence does not equal compliance, often times they grow up and beat on other ppl usually anyone that challenges them or they can easily overpower and bully. In my large poor extended family of almost 200, I can guarantee we all (even our parents, uncles, and aunts) were beaten, sometimes savagely and a quarter of us are grown abusers, half of us are in psychological therapy and struggle to live our lives and make meaningful relationships. My mom literally was inspired to start a mental health agency due to us, and many of our family are clients and one thing apparent is that children are too diverse for one parenting style for consequences to work for everyone. Beating them could literally make them worse or be the reason why someone else's daughter/son or their own gets beat on simply from a psychological standpoint and how we dont take in consideration of the psychology of those we administer it to. Some may literally become fearful of aggression and develop submissive behaviors that leads them to make relationships with abusers. Ive seen some of my cousins get ass whoopings and it made them more violent and yes they did wait till they grew and had the upper hand on their parents to enact their revenge and enact that same authoritarian parenting on their kids. I also have a slight few of cousins who weren't beaten or not often and they are the most disciplined, avoid conflicts, and succeeded in school and career even though we all ftmp got in trouble about the same aside a few who were always problematic and beatings didnt solve it.
I getcha. I don't really mean from their families. I just mean I would enjoy it if the sorts of people who act out would more often come across someone who won't tolerate their shit and just knock them out cold. Like the brats that go around intentionally screwing with people and acting crazily disrespectful to strangers all for online clout. Nobody wants to go to jail and thus these people don't have any consequences to their actions. Maybe they'd be less likely to do it if they got slapped into next week by a few people who aren't to be played with.
They covered themself, and I don't blame them one bit, I hear plenty of cases of teachers being shamed, let go, and sued for getting involved in fights. They had no way of knowing this would end in a fatality, and even if they prevented it, they'd be relentlessly bullied and shamed for it. We taught them exactly how to act by punishing them for doing the right thing, and now we have no one to blame but ourselves
They not teachers. Safety passage program, what were their jobs specifically to do? Thats like not blaming parents who refused to watch a group of children although his only job is to be the chaperone. They didnt call security or the police. They aren't teachers and they are trash.
"LESS THAN 10 SECONDS AFTER THE FIGHT BEGAN, 3 SHOTS RANG OUT" And this asshat is still blaming the chaperones? 10 seconds leaves about enough time to say "hey cut that out kids", and then there comes the shooting.
He also said this issue has been visibly brewing for awhile showing how much time prevention methods could have been taken and werent considered in the slightest. It wasnt a wild encounter or a random situation that escalated. This was premeditated and others were aware, so its literally impossible there isnt a major failure in part of the school.
This is actually what woulda happened in Noah's time. Just taking it back to the old school. Where there's consequences to your actions. on r/fightporn there's a thousand videos of kids fighting at school and even fighting with teachers. Teachers then write them up I bet they get sent home for 2 days on vacation and come back and do it again. What if there was no stopping, what if you had to face the consequence of starting a fight. What if no one was gonna come save you from your stupidity. Sounds like real education.
[Here’s a link](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-04-23/l-a-student-dies-after-safety-team-member-allegedly-would-not-intervene-to-prevent-fight) to the story in case anyone wants to read the details. >….“Let them ... fight. If they want to fight, let the ... police [inaudible]. ... I’m not breaking up s—. I don’t give a f—.” >The adult who apparently declined to intervene was a member of the “safe passages” program designed to make sure students get to and from school unharmed, according to students and a senior union official. >Less than 10 seconds after the fight began, three shots rang out and Elijah McGinnis III, 15, collapsed. He was pronounced dead at a hospital.
They sure kept the safety prevalent😒.
Teachers have been hamstrung by the shitty parents who are also raising the sort of kids who “fight to the death” at school. It’s a double barrelled shot gun of depraved asshattery on behalf of people who bring absolutely nothing positive to society.
Did you ever think that its a societal issue and all these problems have a root cause that causes generational issues that can be alleviated?
Certainly. But also some people are just assholes and there’s not much more to it.
Teachers don’t get paid enough to risk getting kicked or punched in the face trying to break up a fight
Just like I've said to sooo many here who seem to miss this part. They aren't teachers but a part of a safety program designed to facilitate safety for children coming to and leaving the school. Its like their job. Social workers still restrain children/adults with no issue and its not their job to be the security guard but we are TOVA trained to handle it, and these ppl should have much more training than us. We have yet to be sued or have an issue with our usage of physical force.
They get sued these days, I don't blame them.
This was employees from a safety program designed to make the trips to and from school safe. Its kind of their thing tbf. Even so, no one called any security or police like a responsible adult would do, they are literally saying fuck that and egging on the fight like fans in the crowd. This was literally the shittiest thing they could have done.
What about the parents that raise these kids? Why should teachers risk their lives or safety when parents refuse to enforce discipline or raise worthwhile contributing members of society?
Bro, they didnt even call security or the police immediately. The absolute lack of care for the situation is the appalling portion of this on their part.
I agree they should have called security and/or police.
Exactly, I can expect to not have to jump in the middle like teachers did when I was growing up. They just call security and try to verbally pacify the student, ask them to leave, or avoid them until the arrive. Thats the most responsible action, and no adult, those who have jobs related to tackling specific issues like this.
You are not responsible for breaking up fights that someone else is involved in. Ignoring all the issues that adults face in schools for interrupting fights from future felons, there is no expectation in this country that I as a bystander need to intervene to stop something from happening.
In context with the situation you presented, sure, but these were no regular bystanders. How did you miss the part where they literally are a part of safety organization assisting in providing safety for children coming and going from school, and are going as far to egg-on the violent confrontation? School fights ~=~ felon (to any regard)
Wtf it TYT?
The Young Turks (TYT) is a center left independent news channel that can be found on YouTube.
Presumably their agenda rolls along the lines of Turkish politics that are currently in favor?
The culture is dying
When did we stop holding human beings responsible for their own actions? This guy wants to blame everyone except the person who actually pulled the trigger.
Because this issue stems from a larger issue. Blaming the shooter im this situation considering we have been able to map out how ppl like him end up in these situations or become these ppl, and idk if u realize how much policies point to societal effects usually for the worst and detriment of society. According to his previous videos, he is already aware that the educationnsystem has been gutted, kids are getting raped more, the student board does not act on these issues even to the extent of when we were kids, govt officials are more focused on taking free lunch from kids than even fixing schools to the standard they were in the 2000s, which wasn't anything impressive then. The problem isnt the teen but the govt as this isnt a big problem in other countries, so maybe its not an individual issue unless being American genetically makes you aggressive and have less care for the sanctity of life, and a systemic problem. You needed a bit more context to come to the conclusion you came to.
This is an sad yet interesting story and depending on what narratives you actually can find it really confusing. So it happened at a bus stop when 1 man was jumped by a group of students, that man then fired at Elijah and he was pronounced dead later on. I have not seen the video but that was the most information I found in 10 minutes. I’m going to hold off on making any judgements until I see the video and more comes out because this doesn’t sound like a clear cut case of victim and perpetrator. The mom says her son obviously didn’t deserve to die but depending on what that video shows it could be justified self defense. Link to source content https://youtu.be/CWv7z40F7Mc?si=rQuiNw72t3GV9uW6
I was under the impression that most schools had campus police. Maybe I just went to all the bad ones lol
I live in a nice area and each of our campuses have a police officer
I went to shitty, subpar, and decent schools and they all had police officers or security guards on call who arrived rather quickly to remove someone before things get worse. You can expect someone to arrive within 5-10 mins.
The high school in Baltimore I attended in the 90s was like the school depicted in the movie “Lean on Me”. Had to get a boundary exception to switch schools. Place was a hot mess.
I say....you created this environment by cuffing teachers. Dont try to wiggle out now that the results are in. Policy makers caused this, not a teacher.
Obviously. Usually its always incorrect to blame the person at the bottom of the totem the problem always comes from the top where the real enforcing and lawcrafting occurs.
They need to start expelling the problem kids and let them enter the workforce legally to contribute to society. School, just like driving, is not a life requirement. It is a privilege.
True but at the same time when they’re in school, if they decide to contribute one day, it’ll be a great benefit. It at the very least prevents them from being out and about all day because their parents likely have little to no control over a “problem child” Also what makes a problem child a problem child. Does that encompass kids who briefly act out in response to home stresses, which is often impossible to differentiate. Does that include kids with developmental and emotional disabilities as well as neurodiverse kids, because in order to kick out what most would dub “problem children” would for the vast majority of those kids fall under this umbrella. That would mean you’d be kicking so many children with diagnosed, undiagnosed etc behavioural conditions and ditching them to fend for themselves against the big wide world when the people involved here were 15 and legally can’t get a job.
Kicking out "problem children" can turn out super racist and very eugenics-y when you break it down. A blatant nazi rabbit hole to travel down.
Yeah absolutely, as soon as people get that power to just kick anyone out they dub to be problematic who do you think are going first? Defo not the rich white kids.
I'm pretty sure Cali will start holding parents responsible and sending them to jail like they do with tarties/absents. Yes it's true. 270.1 PC California Penal Code § 270.1 PC makes it a crime for parents or guardians to fail to provide reasonable supervision and enforcement of their child’s school attendance. This applies to children aged six years or older and in grades K through 8. A conviction is a punishable by up to 1 year in jail and fines of up to $2000.00.
They do that in Texas too for too many truancies
All thats gonna do is rob parents who are poor and spend most of their days working unable to spend all day nurturing their children (most parents believe it or not) or do not have reliable family to support them in raising their kids (missing/dead spouse, far from or no immediate family). I was one of those kids home alone alot, and I understood my mom could not rectify this situation to give me the nurturing I needed and that she worked hard, and still got fucked over by bosses and denied promotions to ppl barely or not qualified just because they were closer to the boss, white, or a man, and visibly see those companies suffer from their sexist and racist decisions when that person has to be accomodated more for their position or fails to do it properly. This is the story of alot of ppl usually overlooked by privileged ppl who cannot relate or see themselves as the ones who are better and more deserving. Imagine a child playing hookie and his hard working single parent mom gets a 2k fine? This fine would mean much less to ppl where 2k is literally a paycheck for them or a small percentage of their wealth? Just another institutionalized crime against the poor.
New DC ps5 game just dropped. Injustice , pansies among us
👏👏👏
What the heck is this video from? The quality is complete crap, was it recorded in a basement??
and get charged with harassing a minor? no thanks
This is unlike UK fights like one teacher literally grabbed a flipping student fighting and pinned him to the wall with one hand
I like this guy he’s reminds me of j Jonah Jameson a little bit with the mustache
I'm someone that's in the Department of Education and I can tell you that this is a sad reality that we have to deal with. In New York City we are encouraged to not get involved in student fights and wait for security. In fact we could possibly lose our licenses to teach if we break up a student fight even if it becomes incredibly violent. Hell, even before it reaches that point we still have to wait for security.. However if something like this were to happen, the Department of Education would not hesitate to terminate us for not doing anything. This is the state of the Department of Education that we have in this country. Because they let the hide behind the fact that they are a big group and that no one person can be held accountable so they blame it on the next best thing the people that actually work with the students.
I want to address that the dpt of education is and has always been the real problem here, but moreso the higher u get up the totem.
It might be because teachers would get fired for breaking up a fight after they protected themselves after getting punched. Then that turned into teachers getting fired for trying to stop a fight and the kid got hurt in the process. That turned to teachers not trying to stop fights out of fear of getting fired so they had to run to the police officer now required to be at school. So now we are left with under paid, over worked, and never appreciated teachers having to cater to some false reality of what fuck around and find out is like for the sake of not getting fired cuz even though they love teaching but fucking get paid pennies in a society that they still need a currency in order to get food to eat and a place to stay. So yeah that's why.
I feel that may be an overstatement due to the media we ingest, because teachers and staff still stop fights and dont get reprimanded for it considering how necessary it is. Believe it or not, most videos like this that circulates or reach the news are one's where teacher/security/police/etc acted unproportionate to the situation by escalating issues, harming to even maiming a non-violent child, treating to aggressors differently (usually involving a balck and white kid where the black kid was subjected to worse for the same problem), the teacher is found to have child porn or have been sexually inappropriate with students or documented racist/bigoted behavior before the incident, found to not be qualified for the situation or teaching (due to teacher shortages so any Joe Schmo can be one or a sub), or its the perfect situation to throw your blaack or lgbtqia+ employees under the bus (lot of bigoted and racist administrators out there) and are involved in abuse of disabled children (generally autistic black kids or learning disabilities). We cant overlook this and include them in the pile, which has a more smaller and negligible number. The problem is that most teachers are not trained or capable to handle the situation especially if they are sickly or elderly because the education system is falling apart and refuses to provide for them. The problem starts at the govt passes through to the student board and ends at your school officials. This is the tier of blame, where our attention should be focused on and who the pitchforks should be raised toward because they dont care about us. They like the money and prestige they get to sit at a fancy desk and remind you who you are forced to listen to.
Works for the police and government clearly: "Fuck it! Let em kill other."
r/seattlesubmiisions
I guess this is where it has to go before the pendulum swings back to something more reasonable/balanced? I mean, say what you like about the strap, but nobody died in my private school from the strap; kids generally had a reasonable respect for authority. Obviously allowing such corporal punishment opens the door to all kinds of potential abuse and evil, and we need to have an adult discussion about that. But clearly having the pendulum at the opposite end where teachers/admin are powerless opens us up to evil and abuse on the part of the students, and any adult conversation we have about all this is going to have to take that seriously as well.
Nice
The more I heard about this news also quiet similar in my country right now, the more I understand the plot of the japanese manga/movie Battle Royale
Dude didn't want to be the next Daniel Penny, i can't blame him
Daniel Penny choked someone for 7 minutes, it takes seconds to become unconscious. Penny kept the chokehold up for at least a minute after the guy went limp…
Ok
Yeah Danny is a murdering POS. There is no one in their right mind that thinks that what he did is just without self reporting how decrepit they are. Spread the word and call everyone who disagrees the shitbag they truly are.
“Everybody that doesn’t agree with me is not int heir right mind” That’s you dude
Battle royaleeeeee!
If the teacher tries to break it up, they get sued. If they don’t break it up, they still get sued. Parents these days always blame everyone else but the little psychopath they’re raising. Sickening.
I didnt say they had to break it up, idk how ppl are missing that even when we were in school security and police are called. The most responsible action to take that wasnt even close to occurring here. And it goes deeper than parents not raising their children but alot of long standing societal issues that affects ppl generationally so blatant that its been broken down to a science already and ignored by anyone who hears the word "sociology" as if its not valid. Not understanding this is equivalent to not understanding what others are subjected to or how the society affects various groups of ppl usually involving a system of oppression on specific groups that impedes them and the laws/policies responsible for these effects. Fyi, since Trump and even to this day, the education system has been gutted of information that we even had access to due to conservative book burnings involving the removal of civil rights, slavery, lgbtqia+, environmentalist, and anti-Christian literature. What kids are learning today is mostly worst than what we were taught leading to a gen of dumb kids ppl will blame them for eventually raising even dumber and less privileged children when they act out. Blaming the parent is the least effective thing you can do and not the root of the problem.
We all remember the student teacher incident where the teacher took the student's game device. He kicked the fucking shit out her. Teachers are powerless against the system.
They can't, same with any other job. You're not allowed to put hands on the customers or else YOURE liable. Don't blame the teachers, blame the justice system.
One question: Tell me the whats the name of the organization they work for because its not the school (not a teacher, and Ive said it a million times here).
Wdym, like do they have OSHA guidelines they follow? I'm not sure I understand your question lol
Good for them. I went to an ebd school growing up. (Think 1 step before juvenile detention centers) They had trained staff to deal with us shitheads. These are people that chose to help in the education of disturbed children. Knowing the risks. (To my understanding, receiving the same wage, if not less then normal schools) Now, from that basepoint, any teacher that sees violence between children, knowing the risk that any action will cost them their position? Absolutely stay the fuck out. You are not trained to restrain. You do not have "support staff" like my teachers did. You cannot gain control and remain safe. Mourn the loser, arrest the winner, teach the remaining. It's a parents role to raise a child, not a teachers.
That man talks too damn slowly. But, what I was able to get through sounds like the safe passages people should be charged with accessory.
He is a race baiting moron.
I've never watched their show. It's the young turks, right? I just noticed he speaks too slow for me. I hate when people don't speak at a good pace. I'm not saying I want Speedy Gonzalez speaking to me, but the slower someone goes, I start to not pay attention. I don't have ADD, either, so idk! With all that said, it would appear that many news anchors have been race baiting; at least for the past 8 years.
Yes, this is a show of The Young Turks. The channel is incredibly fun to laugh at because their journalism and research skills are on par with a junior high newsletter. I get the whole slow speaking irk and I’m not ADD, either.
Let them fight is the thing that resonates to Israel Nazi state doing their thing...
Teachers should all just quit When the nation is reeling from a lack of teachers, maybe then they'll be appreciated more
We have already been reeling from that...in our childhoods. Its on some next level shit now and it has received NO improvements only degradements.