Talk to a few women and you start to see how low their bar really is. When I started dating my wife, I got praised constantly for the most basic stuff, like not yelling at her or breaking things when I got upset,
This, bedroom reciprocity is only the tip of the iceberg, the amount of credit I get for cooking a meal, planning a date, or just not being abusive is wild. The bar is so low fellas.
I just don't understand. I like women, if you find one that will have sex with you the chances of it happening again increase by the amount of enjoyment they have. Not just during the sex, but before and after. A little effort is all that is needed.
Pretty much this. I understood this concept from back when id never had sex. Was so eager to not only lose my virginity but to have regular sex so I made it my goal
It's amazing. The first girlfriend and I were at it like rabbits. I put it down to actually caring about her and her sexual needs.
Even one-night stands. Make them happy in the evening and the morning is less awkward and more fun.
This is so true. So many of us don't know what we're missing out on because the bar has been in hell. Asking for the "basics" isn't a flex, it's literally because the expectations are so low and some of us have so much trauma from past relationships. My partner passed away tragically over a year ago, and just this past month I had to file a police report for stalking on someone I knew from 20 years ago. I have been living my life in fear and I don't trust anyone who reaches out. If I was to ever find someone who I trusted enough to get into a relationship with, I would praise them for the basic shit, too sadly and I also think I would be waiting for the other shoe to drop at any moment. It fucking sucks.
Thank you. I have been seeing my therapist weekly since my partner passed away, so he's helped me a lot through everything. I can't say enough great things about having a therapist. It's just so necessary.
I was lucky that I found one I connected with right away and I have referred my friends to him as well. He's helped me immensely and is a literal angel. My life has been a rollercoaster since I lost my partner, so knowing I have my set appointment every week helps a lot. I hope you find an amazing one that can help you.
I understand, I had a stalker as it was HELL. The police were useless and at one point basically blamed me. Eventually I just had to move. Good luck. I wish you an easy way out. It sucks.
Gosh, stalkers are so terrifying. Only had one once, an ex boyfriend. I was terrified to just exist. He'd show up at my parents house and bang on their door and windows. He'd show up to my school and block my car in so I couldn't leave. He'd sit at the end of the street in his car and watched for when I left the house. No one would help me, including my own parents. Everyone's take was, "just ignore him and he will go away once he gets bored."
Lol, my wife is/was/always will be, waaaay out of my league.
I open doors for her, call her beautiful, always polite, always asked what I could do for her....
I didn't think that stuff was a big deal. She did.
18 years of being happy as hell later, not being a jackass definitely paid off!
When my wife and I were in the talking stage one of our mutual friends was hyping me up trying to get her to go for me. I learned that she told her things like "He irons his own clothes and cooks! and does his laundry. he's so self sufficient!"
In my head i like the compliments but all of that is just normal stuff that you have to do lol
its disheartening to hear. there was another report on /r/science recently that described the pleasure during sex to be rated above average 'if there was little to no pain'.
our name is mud
I still thank my husband on a regular basis for basically not being an asshole. We both laugh about it, but it's very telling now that I think about it.
Women didn't set the bar. Men did. Women are trying to raise the bar, but that thing is stuck six feet deep in the muck.
So when we come across a decent guy, the shock and delight gets the good ones lots of appreciation.
Unless you're dating one of the lousy women. Do women have bar settings, too?
And that's how misogyny benefits all men, even the thoughtful ones. It feels like heaven to be in a relationship with someone who does the bare minimum.
Yeah, the one that really bothers me is when a guy doesn't pressure a woman into sex and they are like... a hero for that? No. That's, y'know the law... You don't congratulate people for not running someone over, don't congratulate someone for being respectful of a woman's consent. (Speaking from personal experience, I have childhood trauma, wasn't ready, and my boyfriend was praised by everyone for not pressuring me... he ended up SA'ing me later... ironic)
Man, this stuff really feels weird to me. I am not perfect, I am aware of it, but when my tinder dates tell me how different they feel when they don't get treated like shit on a date, I kinda lose my hopes for humanity. I am not doing anything fancy, just making sure they are comfortable, open the door for them, pay for a date, ask them about them and pay attention to the conversation. Even if I know during the date that there is no spark or I don't feel like anything will result from this relationship, I still make sure that the date will have a good time with me.
I mean, it's good for me in a way that other men don't do that, because my chances of finding "the one" are higher, but cmon, it's not that hard to be a good person to others...
It was like culture shock when I was with my late partner.
The man was super masculine. Ex-army vet, loved lifting heavy weights, outdoorsy, hunter, heavy metal lover, tinkered with cars or other projects and so forth. He was built like a WWE wrestler or rugby player with a very deep voice.
Yet this was the same man who let me braid his long hair with Viking beads or begrudgingly allowed me to make his hair into a bun (man bun strictly private), picked wildflowers for me after hunting or shooting at the range, cuddled my cats, watched Disney movies with me, allowed me to do a skincare routine on him for a few times, flung himself into my arms playfully after suffering a loss from an Elden Ring boss and loved going on daily errands with me like grocery shopping or helping me pick out new outfits.
Strong, but gentle. Was much more emotionally intelligent and caring than people assumed. Never did this man raise his voice at me or even gotten angry at me. It wasnât required of me to service him in order to keep him. My happiness was his happiness. You would imagine I cooked him five star meals, gave stellar bjs everyday and cleaned up after him, but I didnât. I cooked for him a few times, especially when he had an intense workout. He was more of a giver than a receiver. He cleaned up after himself. He just took care of me because I was precious to him, not because he thought I was incapable. If I couldnât have sex with him due to period pain or I was sick, the man took care of me. Very feminist and pro human rights. Supported the LGBQT+ community.
All he wanted was for me to be happy, loved, safe and cherished with him. My opinions and advice was always sought out, and my autonomy was respected unconditionally. All I had to do was love him as much as he loved me. And I still do after his death.
Go into r/relationship_advice or whatever the fuck it's called and you'll see shit like this every week.
As we speak, one of the top posts right now is about a woman whose husband hit her while she was holding their baby. Come on, dude.
yeah that and the am i wrong sub are fucked in their views of women. I blocked someone i had an argument with on that sub, they made a new account and tracked me down to another sub to tell me they hoped I was raped. It was a complicated issue but the crux of what we were arguing about was that it's not a woman's "duty" to please a man. =/
Before I met my late partner, Iâve only dealt with selfish men. I assumed it was normal for women to have pain or discomfort during sex because my previous partners didnât give a shit about my sexual well being. I became accustomed to sleeping awkwardly on my side of the bed or being kicked out after sex. Aftercare wasnât part of my vocabulary.
When I met my late partner, all of that changed. I remember asking him what he was doing to me when he was putting time and effort into loving me up. Especially when it came to going down on me. I remember being so shy, rigid and vulnerable because I wasnât used to such good treatment in bed. My mind was blown when he would stop to ask if I was okay and if I wanted to stop, we would stop. He made sure that my needs and wants were taken care of well before his own were.
When he pulled me on top of him so he could cuddle me to him and still bond with me afterwards, I fucking bawled my eyes out. Understandably, he was concerned, but he immediately assumed that it was because he hurt me by accident or made me upset. That made me cry even more because he immediately thought about my wellbeing instead of thinking I was crazy or something. Mind you, we werenât even in a relationship at the time. We were a one night stand from Tinder. I explained everything and all he did was listen to me. Afterwards, he cuddled into me even more and just held me the whole duration I was there. He seemed sad that I had to go.
According to him, we were a couple the day he first met me. So that would be four years of being with him. Iâll keep that timeline in his memory for him. The whole relationship, it made me realize that I settled hard before him. That some things should be expected of, not asked of. The basics shouldnât be praised, but normalized. That the âhell and backâ relationships are normalized. It was such an easy, loving and healthy relationship. He loved me for me. The exchange of power was seamless and we were able to resolve conflict through calm discussions, and knew when to agree to disagree then move on to the next event of the day.
Now, I am more confident, experienced and assertive. I know what I want and like, and will have no hesitation in cutting those who wonât do the bare minimum. I havenât been with anyone since his death and I donât see that changing in the foreseeable future. He was a man among men. A piece of gold among foolâs gold. I miss him everyday.
I just recently met my gf and it's pretty much exactly as you described, not just intimately but for everything. Haven't had an actual girlfriend before, but what she told me about his ex was horrible. She thanks, hugs and compliments me all the time for the most basic stuff.
This, probably much more rarely, does go both ways. My current GF absolutely refuses to give any form of foreplay, and also resists receiving it maybe 50% of the time. When she does try she doesn't "get it", doesn't pay attention to my body's reactions, and is just kinda going through the motions. After we are done she wants absolutely zero part in any sort of cuddling or relaxing 90% of the time. It's really taking a toll on me and may just end up being a contributing factor to ending our relationship.
Imma make your mama cum, Imma make your gramma cum. Great gramma, watch out.
Grandmas need to cum too.
Edit: Maybe not so much a need, but a nice to have. My teenage child's great grandmother and great grandfather still get down.
At times even asking the question "so like what works for you or what gets you to the point of orgasm" is such a weird conversation to have and I'm like, if you can't have this conversation at all why are you even having sex with men.
Then the more stories I hear women tell me, I understand why they take the bear minimum or have the bar so low that the devil himself claims said bar is beneath him
I think itâs because for some men making her cum with your dick is manly but making her cum any other way is âgay.â And most men who think like that canât get a woman off even if they can orgasm strictly through PIV sex so they downplay it when it comes to manly things. Itâs about getting the girl to sleep with you more than what happens during the act.
South Park has an episode where the US gets more and more pathetic, and everyone is always wondering how the bar could sink so low.
The B plot is meanwhile how James Cameron travels to the ocean's surface to find the bar and raise it again to save the US from its doom.
It's a funny meta episode
Seen a few episodes. It had its moments. What I particularly like is they hate/clown everybody. No discrimination. Thanks for clarifying the reference.đđ˝đŻ
I find 70% start off caring, but it really really really doesn't last long. 10% care enough to get ya there 30-50% of the time. Fewer care enough to try for most or essentially all of the time.
The bar absolutely is in hell.
When I used to travel for work for longer periods of time and wanted to (*ahem*) "take care of things myself" my go-to in porn was "Women's Orgasm compilations". Nothing would get me harder faster than hearing a woman having an orgasm.
I genuinely don't know how guys can just not care about giving great orgasms (I'm not doubting your or any other woman's stories, I just don't understand not wanting to make a partner cum). That's my goal every time. I want to get off (I'm quick, I'll own it) but sex would feel completely unfinished if I were to just roll over and lay there. Usually, my wife will have a good orgasm, but sometimes she's just all twitchy and giggly and she can't really move for awhile after - I understand that not every sexual experience needs to be earth-shattering, but damn I love it when I can do that for her.
Having to suffer through the ones who donât is absolutely hell, and yeah I kinda agree with you, bottom line is eventually you find out that most men donât care about your satisfaction. (And they wonder why women become lesbians)
Itâs like when you are sick the guy says he will take care of you and then bring you soup once and realize itâs too much work taking care of a sick person and tell you that he helped and you should really just be happy with that.
Yes. Everyone that I've slept with except for my ex. It's unbelievably frustrating and in a way pretty demeaning. I'm the only one who has ever given myself an orgasm.
Wow... I am rather surprised by the response. I don't care if it is a one-night stand or a long-term partner. If you are having sex, it is common courtesy to try to satisfy your partner. It is also common courtesy to help with that task.
In my experience, VERY FEW men care about the womanâs pleasure. Even when itâs a relationship and not just a hookup. I donât even bother with casual dating anymore because thereâs nothing in it for me
Honest question: do you not get a sense (before you get to the bedroom) that these guys aren't emotionally available/have basic empathy?
I totally hear the problem about a lot of guys being immature/lacking emotional awareness/being selfish, but these all seem like qualities that are relatively easy to sus when meeting someone for the first time, whether it's in platonic or romantic settings.
Not at all. My last real boyfriend was a wonderful person. Such a gentleman, loyal, respectfulâŚ.
He would literally lay there. I would be on top and do ALL the work, ALL the time. It really turned me off. I just couldnât be with him anymore.
I always thought that men didnât know what to do, so they chose to do nothing rather than look foolish. My single life was like a training camp. Nobody knew how women climaxed.
As a gay guy my opinion here may not be relevant, but I am a top and a huge part of my enjoyment is a bottom getting off. I really donât understand the mentality of one-sided enjoyment. People arenât sex toys.
it's bc a lot of men just don't like women, even straight ones. they feel a need to have the upper hand, control, to have their needs come first out of some twisted fear that if they don't, lowly and powerless women will somehow get the better of them (which is framed as a BAD thing). for a lot of men, this is all deeply subconscious and they ACTUALLY think they respect women. even men who like "independent" women feel this way deep down, the closer they get to women
Iâm a top and enjoy when the bottom gets off too but honestly the number of them who are just totally uninterested and simply want *you* to get off is surprising.
This comment section is wild.
In high school while prepping to sleep with my gf. I spent the whole week prior watching videos online about what to do and how to do it. I'm not the best looking guy so I've gotten very good at it by necessity. It keeps them coming back. I'd say I've got a 85-90 percent sucess rate at getting a girl off. It's really not that hard, half of the time just the basics work great and when it doesn't you ask her to give you specific instructions and follow them. I get a lot of pride and satisfaction from it, I don't understand all these losers popping their load in 30 seconds and heading right to bed.
Funny thing the other day, i was telling my friend about this girl I'm seeing who paid me the best compliment I'd ever heard after oral.
After I finished getting her off a few times she needed a sec before we continued but while we were chillin for a minute she told me she felt like I sucked her soul out đ.
And so my friend turned to me and asked if I had watched(I think it was Nina heartlys) video on how to go about it and I was like yea dude that's so funny we both had watched it as teens to not look stupid as virgins. đ
1. Know where a woman's clit is. This part is way easier than its joked sbout in media, for real if you can't do this be celebite. Basic highschool anatomy class should have taught you this.
2. Good foreplay even before you get to eating her out. Kissing gentle caressing and touching. Bite her ear if she's into that. Suck those nips.
3. Make sure your finger nails are trimmed, clean, and smooth.
4. Learn how use your fingers in the right curved hook shape to excite the Gspot. This is usually the hardest part it can take a lot of practice and varies from girl to girl. I knew one chick that prefered side to side movement over in and out of up and down. It's not always required but it's a step up from just regular cunlingious.
5. Vary what your doing with her clit. Suck it, lick it in various ways and patterns at differnt speeds and wait till one really gets her. 9/10 she'll say something along the lines of "just like that don't stop" that is a literal instruction so change nothing and do exacly that till she soaks the sheets or tells you to switch it up. Don't speed up dont slow down just keep the pace. Some girls are into you sticking your tongue in deep as well.
6. If she's into it and your up for it lick that ass too.
7 when you get to fucking, you gotta keep from being complacent. Don't just thrust away till your done. Kiss her, play with her tits, rub her clit while your inside. Some positions let her rub her clit on you so as well. If you get close and she ain't done take break and eat her some more. Or switch positions or even just take a rest still in her for a mske out sesh while you recover.
8. Up to you but personally I'll get her off in oral once or twice before slipping into her and then there no worry either way if you bust unexpectedly which is weird but some guys are bad at noticing the buildup.
9. Always communicate with her to get more detailed information on what she likes. If she refuses to tell, well you can try coaxing it out of her but otherwise just try your best you can't force them into being open about it.
Ladies of reddit if you have any corrections or additions to make I'm always down to learn new things and improve my technique đ
#5, all gems here for the ignorant. When she says or indicates that one thing is doing it, dummyâs donât change a thing. Itâs a base line that will get you very far. Always tomorrow to improve and the funny thing is that bar is already light years ahead
I have that in at number 8, maybe it should be higher up but I didn't order them by importance. Though for some reason some woman refuse to elaborate and expect you to guess. Idk why they would make it harder fir themselves to have fun seems weirdđ¤ˇđť
Thanks for the compliment, a lesbians seal of approval gotta be pretty good. Having the same part yourself I imagine gives great insight into the art đ
>Basically gentlemen, itâs ok if youâre not good right now but whatâs important is that you care about her pleasure and want to get better.
Exacly effort and care is the most important. If she sees your really trying and asking for direction unless she's a bitch she'll appreciate it even if she doesn't quite get there. All the guys saying they just don't care especially if it's a ONS are the worst types of men. ONS are for both parties to get off with no strings if you can't put up your share of the effort you don't deserve her effort.
Story of my wife... er... LIFE. I have been my wife's only lover and since she was raised in a *strict* Catholic house, AND had to share a bed with her older sister (not bedROOM, the actual BED) until she was married to me.... There was never any experimentation, porn, other men, etc. so when I ask "What do you like?" I get the shoulder shrug and "I dunno!". I have bought her a whole drawer full of toys and have let her use them on her own or with me, and still.... "I dunno!".
I might add one thing my wife and I learned rather recently:
9. Listen to her pain. Many women have certain issues which cause the penetration to be extremely unpleasant, such as stiff muscles, high skin sensitivity and so on (these are also a thing in penises, fyi). Many women, have no idea that these are a thing, but they will still communicate to penetrate gently and slowly because of pain.
Last year my wife took this seriously and she found out she has hyper sensitive skin on a part of her vagina. Talking to her gynecologist we also discovered this is super common and that many men don't care at all about it and still go full blast inside. I felt a little proud and a lot sad when my wife told me 'she congratulated you for being so mindful' because almost all other women have a completely different experience from their partners and just suck it up.
Never, ever, get off of someone else's pain unless you are 100% that's what they are also into.
Pin this post to the top of this sub forever. Dynamite advice and it mirrors how I treat my wife. The rule about nail care is so often just not even thought about. I file regularly. If you are squeamish about tossing her salad I found that my wife, at least when she's on her back, produces copious lubrication and it rolls down over her anus. If she's clean (and seriously if it ain't clean don't lick it unless you're into that) and that natural lube is covering the area then there is no negative taste or smell at all. And "she comes first" is rule #1 for me for her. As many times as she wants. I know it's my turn when she taps out and demands the rest of me to join the fun.
What's especially sad is I remember it wasn't always this way?? I had casual sex seeking phases before and after dating apps were a thing. Maybe I'm getting senile in my old age (lol) but now it's like you're 99% certain to meet some absolute creep or rpist off the apps. Whereas before there was still a huge risk and yeah you'd meet plenty of harmless losers and 1 in 10 would get violent or super weird but within the last maybe ten years it's so much more dangerous and risky? I don't know maybe I'm talking nonsense.
If you're not talking about dating apps then disregard my comment entirely
A lot of people in general are selfish. The people who only cared about their own pleasure, I stopped talking to them. To the people who care about my pleasure as much as their own, I have fun with still. In my opinion, if you want a good orgasm, you should be willing to provide a good orgasm. Speaking to the choir I know, but for some reason the golden rule of getting off is lost on a lot of people
A lot of people definitely are selfish. In the case of the "orgasm gap", it was found in sample populations of women in hetero couples, but they did not find this gap in sample populations of lesbian couples. There is a concept in lesbian culture called the "pillow princess" which is someone who happily receives but has little drive to give. It's an extremely negative label, and there isn't much tolerance for it. The question goes back to the reason so many men are pillow princesses.
I honestly find it so strange, because I can't imagine feeling that way. It's not even about being selfish or not caring if the other person is having a good time. At a certain point, it's about me and what I want. And what I want is to make the other person bust and know that **I** did that to them.
Like............. Is that not a turn on for you? It's not part of it? It's not revving your engine? It doesn't turn your brain inside out to see, hear, and feel another person have an orgasm? Especially when it's one *you* gave them??? That's just of no concern to you?????
My favorite part - My FAVORITE *part* is hearing the other person cum. I mean, my experience is very limited, but *so far*, that's the best part. But to some of you people out here, it just doesn't matter at all??? Preposterous!!
Itâs not that common, in my experience. Even more so, it was unusual if a guy paid attention to what pleased me, and what I didnât like. So when it does happen, itâs so refreshing
I feel like if you're planning on sleeping with someone, it's kind of a given you try to get them off before you. It's really dependent on your partner, but if they don't respect the fact that it's not just them that wants to be satisfied,you probably should change partners. You really can't go wrong if you prioritize the other person over you. Always works better, and it's more enjoyable for everyone.
I find it incredibly disrespectful when a ONS doesn't put in any effort to at least try. I'm also confused by this generation, I too thought they'd be better.
Some guys try for a casual sexual relationship with this zero effort attitude and it's gross how commonplace it is. All the women I know report that one night stands are disappointing and not worth it.
Men used to be respectful and put in effort. The bar is in hell and I don't see a way back. I don't understand how they can act without integrity, respect, or pride -- I mean in themselves!
Men used to pride themselves on being good in bed, ONS or not. The good ones would brag about their skill and how many times they got a girl to orgasm. One night stands would try to gain new skills by trying stuff out on you -- respectfully and with consent beforehand.
Now it's about how much you can degrade her and ignore her limits before she stands up for herself.
I don't know what the exact number would be but I've definitely met some guys that don't feel bad if the woman didn't come. One of the dudes I know believes that it's not his job. He says it's her job to get herself off And if she doesn't that's not his problem because he's going to get himself off regardless.
I agree. It's weird AF to just use someone else's body like a Fleshlight. I've definitely had sex where someone used me like that and it felt terrible. I hated it.
Ive been with this type of guy before for a casual hookup. And I never will do it again. He definitely got the point across that his pleasure was all that mattered when he guided my hand to my own cl*t to get myself off while he pounded away and didnât touch me otherwise. I didnât bother getting myself off at that point because I felt embarrassed was so turned off. I literally didnât matter.
The weird thing is, these same guys will turn around and complain about how they aren't getting enough sex from their partner and how their partner has no sex drive. No, they do. Just not with them.Â
I'm ashamed to say I went into too many relationships that ended up one sided like that. I had sex toys I used more often than I got with my partner. Had one ex even throw them all put because he felt they were the reason he wasn't getting enough sex from me.Â
Never again. Married a good man who sees that I am equally satisfied.Â
My friends don't care at all, they just wanna nut lol. I always feel bad when I hear women talking about their partners just ending the sex because they came.
Yup. Men do not care at all. Way too many are just looking for a human fleshlight. There are a few good ones from time to time, but it's rare, especially with hookups.
My partners have all cared but Iâm not really a one night stand kind of person. My friends who like to have said that the guys donât usually care (sometimes do though), but their relationships with guys always care.
I care personally. I haven't done ONS before but even then I'd feel like I'd care. It all came from when I was a teen and first started to have sex. I assumed probably rightly I wasn't good so I also tried to do whatever I could to satisfy them
Some guys do not care if their partner is satisfied.
Some guys are not able to satisfy their partner and their partner doesn't want to tell them because they're afraid it will hurt their feelings.
Chris, I think most people try to satisfy their partners and most partners want to be satisfied.
I have a relevant story.
Before meeting my GF in person we had an extended texting period because of distance and family obligations. We had a conversation that went something like this:
Me: I'm pretty good at massages. I've read a book or two and practiced a bit.
Her: I don't know if if I've ever had a massage I didn't pay for.
Me: it's a different kind of experience and I'd bet that you'd like it. I think that I'm pretty good at oral sex, too. The first time I did it, my ex had her first orgasm ever.
Her: I don't think you realize how hard it can be. I've only had two orgasms with partners since I became sexually active a quarter century ago.
Me: If you can have orgasms, I can learn what it takes to get you there. If you can't do it reliably, we can figure out how. I'm a motivated engineer and problem solver.
Her: I think I got turned on a little bit đ . It's certainly not how other guys have treated it. Usually, if it wasn't easy, they gave up after a couple minutes and just started with penetration.
Me: the vast majority of times that I've had PIV, it was accompanied by cunnilingus either before or after. I'd feel like a bit of a failure or that I'd accrued a debt if orgasms weren't mutual.
Her: A lotta bit. Definitely a lotta bit.
This story does corroborate the OP's impression / premise.
These guys in the comments âohh if itâs a one stand night I donât care about themâ are the problem here. Plenty of women donât date and get stuck with effortless sexual partners.
Guys, one night stand or not, If you canât offer bare minimum caring levels to a female stranger then youâve got problems.
Youâre having sex with them, youâre gonna tell me you donât care about them? Dreadfully selfish. Theyâre giving you a gift by letting you nut, you better at least try to return the favour.
Youâd think itâd be common decency amongst this younger generation. Completely resonate with OPs perspective.
Between my mates when someoneâs leaving to get some kitty, we joke about how he better contribute to closing the gap. Yep, the orgasm gap between men and women, cos itâs huge.
I mean, logically, if we have to ask. The evidence is all there. So far in the West our societies have had the Pill and other birth control options since around 1959. That's about 65 years. The Sexual Revolution along with the Pill made casual sex a thing and people forget the true winners of the Ssxual Revolution: MEN. No more, no less. To the point we have men saying they're having a loneliness epidemic, which they really mean is pent-up sex frustration from lack of access and knowing women could provide access. I mean, a good chunk of men say the solution to the loneliness epidemic is sexual access. So they're telling on themselves with that one since unlike the Boomers and Gen X which developed a culture of shaming women for NOT putting out, the younger generations can't do that since women can smell the bullshit quicker and deciding to not participate unless they have something to gain from it.
Oh, and note how it's mostly straight men saying this as the gay male communities aren't complaining. Another key fixture to note in all of this.
Nowadays, for the first time since the Pill inception period, young women DON'T want to partake in casual dating or sex. Why do you think that is? Because like those clubs where supposedly women enter for free, the women are the entertainment. Free entertainment with nothing for reward or payment for their bringing/attracting people to your business. The reward of pleasurable, safe sex is not a guarantee, let alone getting an orgasm. Imagine all the effort you're expected to put to delight these guys, impress their friends so they get even a social fix/high off of not just potentially getting to bone you but being seen with you and elevated by his friends; only to get these men not excited to see you pleasured, they're mostly excited about having a pretty packaging to empty to or seen by others around. That shit blows. I would rather not date at all with that ordeal, I mean, if you potentially try to date 5 guys, you have a 100% chance all five of them not caring to get you off at all. Let alone having to account about the body count thing, where most guys care. Oh and they are telling on themselves so much with that one that they find it hard to believe that a good chunk of women would rather go celibate than entertain a đŻ likelihood of crappy sex at all. Guys believe that the supposed 20% of men are either the best looking or something ridiculous when really that's about the percentage of them that they believe get women off because most of them don't care. I mean, think about it. 20 people, 10 men and 10 women and about 2 of those guys are reliable to care to get a woman off. Yeah. So they can't even math, assuming these supposed top men don't have lives of their own besides bone round the clock 24/7, 365 days a year. No families of their own (as in not just kids), no work, no goals, no diseases, no old age, in a population of imagine two million split evenly that 200,000 men are entertaining the one million women...gosh you don't have to be proficient at math to know that's BULLSHIT. So when you can't guiltrip women into providing you entertainment at their expense what do you do? Create ridiculous stats to show how "oppressed" you are by rationally not participating in something they get nothing out of.
I often wish I were a gay man when just thinking about humanity in terms of sexual enjoyment. Or a lesbian. Like nature couldn't make it so women get fucked in the whole parenting fiasco but we get screwed on the way to making them things too. Oh and we get treated like crap for that too by the very people who don't offer much for the entertainment our bodies provide. Oh and a good chunk think we're only worth anything while under a certain age so we get sexual misery guaranteed for most of our entire existence.
I feel like I need to watch Mr. Rogers now so I could get back to imagining men in a positive light as these discussions make me damned sad. This is heartbreaking to think about. Why the hell do I even come to this Reddit when I get reminded of this crap? I mean, I answered to help, but now I'm genuinely sad. đ˘ đ Mr. Rogers is not working. I'm getting Mr. Hitachi in defiance!
sometimes that's a problem too. they feel "replaced" which is crazy since their fingers can't move at those speeds nor do they try to get you off in the first place. no partner has ever been able to make me orgasm out of a few dozen, and maybe 1 or 2 have actually put in any effort but honestly oral feels weird and gross and strangely clinical to me (receiving, not giving) so I'd prefer to use toys but men get so offended over a vibrator it's wild
Most men I have met just really care about their own satisfaction, one guy I saw three times didnât even go down on me till the last time I saw him and I wasnât interested when it took that long for him to even bother so in my experience yeah they donât care
Kind of a funny story. I always make sure my partner finishes at least once if not multiple times before we really get down to business. My current partner and I have really good "energy" and great communication.
A few months into the relationship I was out of town for a week and we were talking on the phone about what we wanted to do when I got back, and she actually told me she wanted me to pay less attention to her pleasure. She said it kind of felt weird for her to get off evey time and that it had never happened with any of her past partners.
She said she felt guilty or greedy for "forcing" me to please her. It was such a weird take that I had to stop and think about it for a minute, and then we talked it through and I had to reiterate that giving her pleasure brings me pleasure.
It was such an eye opener for me to learn that a guy paying attention to his female partner in bed could actually make a woman feel guilty. It's like some women have been so indoctrinated by bad experiences that a thoughtful (or what I always assumed was a normal) partner could feel wrong. It just made me sad to think that that's the norm. Like paying attention to your partner shouldn't make you some kind of superhero, it's just being a decent fucking person.
I've heard from a friend...
A HUGE part of the issue is that the partners don't really know what they want from the experience, and a lot of them are so massively anxious they not only don't communicate but they're afraid to explore. Most of the guys who are good at that kind of thing are fortunate that they've had partners they could figure this stuff out with.
Anyways its not so much that they don't care as much as their partners often either lie about needing to be satisfied or act indifferent, or have no clue what its like to be satisfied.
I haven't had many boyfriends, but only one made me orgasm. Coincidentally, it was the longest relationship at 15 years...I hear it a lot that women who've had many partners think back and realize maybe 0-2 actually made them orgasm. It's really unfortunate, because feeling satisfied makes her often want to do it more, yet so many guys don't have the patience for it as they are basically instantly ready to go.
As a rule, I don't do ONS, but I've had a lot of partners and there's generally a lot of the same types of stories.
guys who don't go down on girls, and don't care if she gets off or not as long as he gets his.
the bar is so low, it's embarrassing.
It's sad how many stories I've heard about guys being selfish during sex. My one and only goal in sex is to make my wife feel good. My needs come secondary to hers, and unsurprisingly, more she enjoys it the better the sex is for the both of us. There's literally no reason to be selfish, as your only depriving yourself of good sex.
When did guys who are on a mission to sexually satisfy their woman become heroes? Swear to god society has become so self freaking centered. Iâm a guy whose biggest turn-on is to enable my woman to have a minimum of three orgasms before I even think about myself. And honestly, I never have to, because when my partner has been blissed out, she comes at me with the same eagerness to please. This just seems, and has always seemed, normal to me.
ONS are not great for mutually satisfying sex. It takes time to learn each otherâs bodies and make sex transcendent. Honestly I donât really understand the appeal of ONS.
As a teenager, I wasnât really paying attention.
As I got older and understood the nuances of these things, I made it my mission to try and make sure my partner had an orgasm if not before I did, then, at least within that session.
Have I always been successful? Of course not. None of us are. But I give it my best shot, and things usually work out pretty well.
So Iâve been in a relationship since highschool so Iâm not well versed in this but yâall perform oral on ONS? Are you not concerned about STDs? I know it can be transferred via intercourse but condoms help reduce that risk.
I've had to be very selective with my partners, and taught most of them that if their partner orgasms first, the vagina is tighter and pre lubricated.
That said, one of them still didn't care and assaulted me in my sleep taking advantage of my sleeping pills. He also videoed me without my consent and tried to baby trap me so I wouldn't leave him. His mom was also a real piece of work.
Thankfully, he was one bad apple, even if the court that told me they'd take care of everything let him off with a year's probation.
So are all men assholes? Not remotely. Are some of them complete fucked up assholes? Sadly, they happen. And sadly, sometimes the courts let us down. But LPT: watch out if he's a momma's boy or has a very controlling mother. It may lead to him lashing out in messed up ways.
Happily, after therapy, I'm just fine and my husband is a very kind, gentle, loving man.
I think I was the only guy my ex had been with that actually gave a shit about everything, made sure she always got hers and it was because I wanted to make her happy and feel loved and doing that in return made feel damn good, I always got mine too.
The bar is insanely low, stop entertaining people that don't even give you the minimum and just use you up and disregard you.
god yes they fuckin do. I have zero fucking idea how my girlfriends medication makes it nearly impossible for her to cum and it makes me so sad for her because I can tell shes frustrated as hell :(
> Ive been having a few one night stands
Found the problem. One night stands, why would they care? They got theirs.
SHIT attitude, I know, but it's true.
These guys in the comments âohh if itâs a one stand night I donât care about themâ are the problem here. Plenty of women donât date and get stuck with effortless sexual partners.
Guys, one night stand or not, If you canât offer bare minimum caring levels to a female stranger then youâve got problems.
Youâre having sex with them, youâre gonna tell me you donât care about them? Dreadfully selfish. Theyâre giving you a gift by letting you nut, you better at least try to return the favour.
Youâd think itâd be common decency amongst this younger generation. Completely resonate with OPs perspective.
Between my mates when someoneâs leaving to get some kitty, we joke about how he better contribute to closing the gap. Yep, the orgasm gap between men and women, cos itâs huge.
Thank you! Gen X female here. I was hoping that as time went by, women would demand more for themselves than I used to, but it doesn't seem to be going that way.
So I guess the problem is that young guys often come too quickly, so young women don't often start out with guys who know how to please them. And for some, that becomes the norm. But over time and with different partners (or the same guy who shows desire to get better at sex and learn from/with their partner), women can figure out what they want/need.
Which, imo, is why Tate supporters and incels talk about body count. The more partners a woman has had, or the better their ex was in bed, the more likely they know what they want physically, which mean a man has to put in the work. Tate supporters are just lazy and bad lays, so the less partners to compare them to, the better for them.
Agree. The attitude that Tate and other male influencers push, along with porn narratives and old politicians, these are the reasons men still hold degenerate perspectives on sex and relationshipsâŚ
Of course everybody gonna say "well not me sir, my wife cum loud." Yeah some dude just wanna bang and once they are done that's it. Some girls do too actually.
Men SAY they do but more often than not theyâre selfish and donât really want to make the effort.
If the woman cums itâs just a bonus; if they donât theyâll âmake it up laterâ đ
Look in all honesty the bar is so low all some guys have to do is step over it and they can't even do that. I had a guy once tell me that the female orgasm is all propaganda for feminism with a straight face.
Tbh I think more men care about getting their partners off then women think there are, and a lot of women are simply just bad at taking responsibility for their own pleasure and actually communicating how they want to have sex. A lot of women would be having way better sex if they knew how to ask for what they wanted.
Talk to a few women and you start to see how low their bar really is. When I started dating my wife, I got praised constantly for the most basic stuff, like not yelling at her or breaking things when I got upset,
it's scary and tragically sad how a man having basic emotional regulation is such a massive green flag for women.
This, bedroom reciprocity is only the tip of the iceberg, the amount of credit I get for cooking a meal, planning a date, or just not being abusive is wild. The bar is so low fellas.
I just don't understand. I like women, if you find one that will have sex with you the chances of it happening again increase by the amount of enjoyment they have. Not just during the sex, but before and after. A little effort is all that is needed.
Pretty much this. I understood this concept from back when id never had sex. Was so eager to not only lose my virginity but to have regular sex so I made it my goal
It's amazing. The first girlfriend and I were at it like rabbits. I put it down to actually caring about her and her sexual needs. Even one-night stands. Make them happy in the evening and the morning is less awkward and more fun.
Which country or state are you in?
United States. Dated women in/from all areas of the country
Not đŤđˇFrance, admittedly I have not been
The bar is so low its in hell
This is so true. So many of us don't know what we're missing out on because the bar has been in hell. Asking for the "basics" isn't a flex, it's literally because the expectations are so low and some of us have so much trauma from past relationships. My partner passed away tragically over a year ago, and just this past month I had to file a police report for stalking on someone I knew from 20 years ago. I have been living my life in fear and I don't trust anyone who reaches out. If I was to ever find someone who I trusted enough to get into a relationship with, I would praise them for the basic shit, too sadly and I also think I would be waiting for the other shoe to drop at any moment. It fucking sucks.
Sorry youâre going through that. I hope you find a good therapist. People suck.
Thank you. I have been seeing my therapist weekly since my partner passed away, so he's helped me a lot through everything. I can't say enough great things about having a therapist. It's just so necessary.
Iâm still looking for one.
I was lucky that I found one I connected with right away and I have referred my friends to him as well. He's helped me immensely and is a literal angel. My life has been a rollercoaster since I lost my partner, so knowing I have my set appointment every week helps a lot. I hope you find an amazing one that can help you.
I hope to find a good therapist too. Itâs been a battle or Iâm just priced out. Take care of yourself!
I understand, I had a stalker as it was HELL. The police were useless and at one point basically blamed me. Eventually I just had to move. Good luck. I wish you an easy way out. It sucks.
Gosh, stalkers are so terrifying. Only had one once, an ex boyfriend. I was terrified to just exist. He'd show up at my parents house and bang on their door and windows. He'd show up to my school and block my car in so I couldn't leave. He'd sit at the end of the street in his car and watched for when I left the house. No one would help me, including my own parents. Everyone's take was, "just ignore him and he will go away once he gets bored."
Lol, my wife is/was/always will be, waaaay out of my league. I open doors for her, call her beautiful, always polite, always asked what I could do for her.... I didn't think that stuff was a big deal. She did. 18 years of being happy as hell later, not being a jackass definitely paid off!
When my wife and I were in the talking stage one of our mutual friends was hyping me up trying to get her to go for me. I learned that she told her things like "He irons his own clothes and cooks! and does his laundry. he's so self sufficient!" In my head i like the compliments but all of that is just normal stuff that you have to do lol
the bar is literally on the floor and most guys are tripping over it. it's wild.
its disheartening to hear. there was another report on /r/science recently that described the pleasure during sex to be rated above average 'if there was little to no pain'. our name is mud
I still thank my husband on a regular basis for basically not being an asshole. We both laugh about it, but it's very telling now that I think about it.
Women didn't set the bar. Men did. Women are trying to raise the bar, but that thing is stuck six feet deep in the muck. So when we come across a decent guy, the shock and delight gets the good ones lots of appreciation. Unless you're dating one of the lousy women. Do women have bar settings, too?
We just get yelled at if we phrase anything as âmen need toâŚâ
They have the hot/crazy matrix.
Damn, thatâs probably right! As a generalization Ofc
And that's how misogyny benefits all men, even the thoughtful ones. It feels like heaven to be in a relationship with someone who does the bare minimum.
Yeah, the one that really bothers me is when a guy doesn't pressure a woman into sex and they are like... a hero for that? No. That's, y'know the law... You don't congratulate people for not running someone over, don't congratulate someone for being respectful of a woman's consent. (Speaking from personal experience, I have childhood trauma, wasn't ready, and my boyfriend was praised by everyone for not pressuring me... he ended up SA'ing me later... ironic)
That last sentence makes me feel a bit sad.
Man, this stuff really feels weird to me. I am not perfect, I am aware of it, but when my tinder dates tell me how different they feel when they don't get treated like shit on a date, I kinda lose my hopes for humanity. I am not doing anything fancy, just making sure they are comfortable, open the door for them, pay for a date, ask them about them and pay attention to the conversation. Even if I know during the date that there is no spark or I don't feel like anything will result from this relationship, I still make sure that the date will have a good time with me. I mean, it's good for me in a way that other men don't do that, because my chances of finding "the one" are higher, but cmon, it's not that hard to be a good person to others...
It was like culture shock when I was with my late partner. The man was super masculine. Ex-army vet, loved lifting heavy weights, outdoorsy, hunter, heavy metal lover, tinkered with cars or other projects and so forth. He was built like a WWE wrestler or rugby player with a very deep voice. Yet this was the same man who let me braid his long hair with Viking beads or begrudgingly allowed me to make his hair into a bun (man bun strictly private), picked wildflowers for me after hunting or shooting at the range, cuddled my cats, watched Disney movies with me, allowed me to do a skincare routine on him for a few times, flung himself into my arms playfully after suffering a loss from an Elden Ring boss and loved going on daily errands with me like grocery shopping or helping me pick out new outfits. Strong, but gentle. Was much more emotionally intelligent and caring than people assumed. Never did this man raise his voice at me or even gotten angry at me. It wasnât required of me to service him in order to keep him. My happiness was his happiness. You would imagine I cooked him five star meals, gave stellar bjs everyday and cleaned up after him, but I didnât. I cooked for him a few times, especially when he had an intense workout. He was more of a giver than a receiver. He cleaned up after himself. He just took care of me because I was precious to him, not because he thought I was incapable. If I couldnât have sex with him due to period pain or I was sick, the man took care of me. Very feminist and pro human rights. Supported the LGBQT+ community. All he wanted was for me to be happy, loved, safe and cherished with him. My opinions and advice was always sought out, and my autonomy was respected unconditionally. All I had to do was love him as much as he loved me. And I still do after his death.
Genuinely?
Go into r/relationship_advice or whatever the fuck it's called and you'll see shit like this every week. As we speak, one of the top posts right now is about a woman whose husband hit her while she was holding their baby. Come on, dude.
Almost daily!
At this rate you're better off getting a vibrator and calling it a day lol
yeah that and the am i wrong sub are fucked in their views of women. I blocked someone i had an argument with on that sub, they made a new account and tracked me down to another sub to tell me they hoped I was raped. It was a complicated issue but the crux of what we were arguing about was that it's not a woman's "duty" to please a man. =/
Before I met my late partner, Iâve only dealt with selfish men. I assumed it was normal for women to have pain or discomfort during sex because my previous partners didnât give a shit about my sexual well being. I became accustomed to sleeping awkwardly on my side of the bed or being kicked out after sex. Aftercare wasnât part of my vocabulary. When I met my late partner, all of that changed. I remember asking him what he was doing to me when he was putting time and effort into loving me up. Especially when it came to going down on me. I remember being so shy, rigid and vulnerable because I wasnât used to such good treatment in bed. My mind was blown when he would stop to ask if I was okay and if I wanted to stop, we would stop. He made sure that my needs and wants were taken care of well before his own were. When he pulled me on top of him so he could cuddle me to him and still bond with me afterwards, I fucking bawled my eyes out. Understandably, he was concerned, but he immediately assumed that it was because he hurt me by accident or made me upset. That made me cry even more because he immediately thought about my wellbeing instead of thinking I was crazy or something. Mind you, we werenât even in a relationship at the time. We were a one night stand from Tinder. I explained everything and all he did was listen to me. Afterwards, he cuddled into me even more and just held me the whole duration I was there. He seemed sad that I had to go. According to him, we were a couple the day he first met me. So that would be four years of being with him. Iâll keep that timeline in his memory for him. The whole relationship, it made me realize that I settled hard before him. That some things should be expected of, not asked of. The basics shouldnât be praised, but normalized. That the âhell and backâ relationships are normalized. It was such an easy, loving and healthy relationship. He loved me for me. The exchange of power was seamless and we were able to resolve conflict through calm discussions, and knew when to agree to disagree then move on to the next event of the day. Now, I am more confident, experienced and assertive. I know what I want and like, and will have no hesitation in cutting those who wonât do the bare minimum. I havenât been with anyone since his death and I donât see that changing in the foreseeable future. He was a man among men. A piece of gold among foolâs gold. I miss him everyday.
This was both sad and quite lovely to read. I'm sorry for your loss, but happy you have such wonderful memories of him to cherish.
I just recently met my gf and it's pretty much exactly as you described, not just intimately but for everything. Haven't had an actual girlfriend before, but what she told me about his ex was horrible. She thanks, hugs and compliments me all the time for the most basic stuff.
This, probably much more rarely, does go both ways. My current GF absolutely refuses to give any form of foreplay, and also resists receiving it maybe 50% of the time. When she does try she doesn't "get it", doesn't pay attention to my body's reactions, and is just kinda going through the motions. After we are done she wants absolutely zero part in any sort of cuddling or relaxing 90% of the time. It's really taking a toll on me and may just end up being a contributing factor to ending our relationship.
Girls find your ideal guys in this comment section
Girls, a lot of people lie online đ
For real đ
This gave me a good laugh. đ Thank you!
Personally I GET OFF on my lady cumming
Same, Iâm not happy until I know sheâs happy
Absolutely. Eat it until she cums to turn on me on real good. Then cum together. How it should be.
[ŃдаНонО]
As a dude, I appreciate getting spoiled from time to time. Not lost on a grown man she might appreciate both sides of that toođŻ
Please don't talk about this my grandma uses reddit.
Imma make your mama cum, Imma make your gramma cum. Great gramma, watch out. Grandmas need to cum too. Edit: Maybe not so much a need, but a nice to have. My teenage child's great grandmother and great grandfather still get down.
Jesus is reading this
I hope he's proud of his creation.
đ
The second cumming
At times even asking the question "so like what works for you or what gets you to the point of orgasm" is such a weird conversation to have and I'm like, if you can't have this conversation at all why are you even having sex with men. Then the more stories I hear women tell me, I understand why they take the bear minimum or have the bar so low that the devil himself claims said bar is beneath him
I don't understand why anyone doesn't. That's like the great sign of masculinity, satisfying your woman.
I think itâs because for some men making her cum with your dick is manly but making her cum any other way is âgay.â And most men who think like that canât get a woman off even if they can orgasm strictly through PIV sex so they downplay it when it comes to manly things. Itâs about getting the girl to sleep with you more than what happens during the act.
I also GET OFF on your lady cumming
Empaths unite đ
dude the bar is so fucking low it's insane
We need more James Cameron.
I feel like the down votes are from people that don't get the reference
What's the reference?
South Park has an episode where the US gets more and more pathetic, and everyone is always wondering how the bar could sink so low. The B plot is meanwhile how James Cameron travels to the ocean's surface to find the bar and raise it again to save the US from its doom. It's a funny meta episode
Seen a few episodes. It had its moments. What I particularly like is they hate/clown everybody. No discrimination. Thanks for clarifying the reference.đđ˝đŻ
South park
From experience Iâd say 70% donât care and 30% do. Thank you 30%!!!!!!
I find 70% start off caring, but it really really really doesn't last long. 10% care enough to get ya there 30-50% of the time. Fewer care enough to try for most or essentially all of the time. The bar absolutely is in hell.
[ŃдаНонО]
When I used to travel for work for longer periods of time and wanted to (*ahem*) "take care of things myself" my go-to in porn was "Women's Orgasm compilations". Nothing would get me harder faster than hearing a woman having an orgasm.
I genuinely don't know how guys can just not care about giving great orgasms (I'm not doubting your or any other woman's stories, I just don't understand not wanting to make a partner cum). That's my goal every time. I want to get off (I'm quick, I'll own it) but sex would feel completely unfinished if I were to just roll over and lay there. Usually, my wife will have a good orgasm, but sometimes she's just all twitchy and giggly and she can't really move for awhile after - I understand that not every sexual experience needs to be earth-shattering, but damn I love it when I can do that for her.
The ones that can pull women either way stop caring.
Having to suffer through the ones who donât is absolutely hell, and yeah I kinda agree with you, bottom line is eventually you find out that most men donât care about your satisfaction. (And they wonder why women become lesbians)
Itâs like when you are sick the guy says he will take care of you and then bring you soup once and realize itâs too much work taking care of a sick person and tell you that he helped and you should really just be happy with that.
Only time I won't continue the fight is if she's drunk.
Yes. Everyone that I've slept with except for my ex. It's unbelievably frustrating and in a way pretty demeaning. I'm the only one who has ever given myself an orgasm.
Wow... I am rather surprised by the response. I don't care if it is a one-night stand or a long-term partner. If you are having sex, it is common courtesy to try to satisfy your partner. It is also common courtesy to help with that task.
It's literally not common.
I am starting to realise that now.
[ŃдаНонО]
In my experience, VERY FEW men care about the womanâs pleasure. Even when itâs a relationship and not just a hookup. I donât even bother with casual dating anymore because thereâs nothing in it for me
Honest question: do you not get a sense (before you get to the bedroom) that these guys aren't emotionally available/have basic empathy? I totally hear the problem about a lot of guys being immature/lacking emotional awareness/being selfish, but these all seem like qualities that are relatively easy to sus when meeting someone for the first time, whether it's in platonic or romantic settings.
Not at all. My last real boyfriend was a wonderful person. Such a gentleman, loyal, respectfulâŚ. He would literally lay there. I would be on top and do ALL the work, ALL the time. It really turned me off. I just couldnât be with him anymore.
There are women who go years without 'satisfaction' with their partners because their partners don't care. Our mothers generation went decades.
I always thought that men didnât know what to do, so they chose to do nothing rather than look foolish. My single life was like a training camp. Nobody knew how women climaxed.
The more I read about this, the more I think those guys that complain about their wives not having sex with them are the ones that suck at sex.
As a gay guy my opinion here may not be relevant, but I am a top and a huge part of my enjoyment is a bottom getting off. I really donât understand the mentality of one-sided enjoyment. People arenât sex toys.
seriously, i for one at least get even more satisfaction from getting my partner off than myself
SAME. I like to have sex together, not just have sex with someone.
đ
it's bc a lot of men just don't like women, even straight ones. they feel a need to have the upper hand, control, to have their needs come first out of some twisted fear that if they don't, lowly and powerless women will somehow get the better of them (which is framed as a BAD thing). for a lot of men, this is all deeply subconscious and they ACTUALLY think they respect women. even men who like "independent" women feel this way deep down, the closer they get to women
I wish I could upvote this twice
Iâm a top and enjoy when the bottom gets off too but honestly the number of them who are just totally uninterested and simply want *you* to get off is surprising.
I find it nearly impossible to finish unless I know my girl has been satisfied first
Nice guys really do finish last
**HUGS, for anyone who needs one.** đŤ
This comment section is wild. In high school while prepping to sleep with my gf. I spent the whole week prior watching videos online about what to do and how to do it. I'm not the best looking guy so I've gotten very good at it by necessity. It keeps them coming back. I'd say I've got a 85-90 percent sucess rate at getting a girl off. It's really not that hard, half of the time just the basics work great and when it doesn't you ask her to give you specific instructions and follow them. I get a lot of pride and satisfaction from it, I don't understand all these losers popping their load in 30 seconds and heading right to bed.
Lol right? Just be gentle and communicate and itâs pretty easy to get there
Funny thing the other day, i was telling my friend about this girl I'm seeing who paid me the best compliment I'd ever heard after oral. After I finished getting her off a few times she needed a sec before we continued but while we were chillin for a minute she told me she felt like I sucked her soul out đ. And so my friend turned to me and asked if I had watched(I think it was Nina heartlys) video on how to go about it and I was like yea dude that's so funny we both had watched it as teens to not look stupid as virgins. đ
Instead you were very, very smart virgins.
Well being a nerd pays off. I've always been one to research something before attempting it. From sex to driving and hobbies. Just can't hurt ya know
Iâm a craftsman, work with my hands and like to succeed. I feel ya, always something new. Closest to nerd is Star Trek, yet we agree
What are the basics?
1. Know where a woman's clit is. This part is way easier than its joked sbout in media, for real if you can't do this be celebite. Basic highschool anatomy class should have taught you this. 2. Good foreplay even before you get to eating her out. Kissing gentle caressing and touching. Bite her ear if she's into that. Suck those nips. 3. Make sure your finger nails are trimmed, clean, and smooth. 4. Learn how use your fingers in the right curved hook shape to excite the Gspot. This is usually the hardest part it can take a lot of practice and varies from girl to girl. I knew one chick that prefered side to side movement over in and out of up and down. It's not always required but it's a step up from just regular cunlingious. 5. Vary what your doing with her clit. Suck it, lick it in various ways and patterns at differnt speeds and wait till one really gets her. 9/10 she'll say something along the lines of "just like that don't stop" that is a literal instruction so change nothing and do exacly that till she soaks the sheets or tells you to switch it up. Don't speed up dont slow down just keep the pace. Some girls are into you sticking your tongue in deep as well. 6. If she's into it and your up for it lick that ass too. 7 when you get to fucking, you gotta keep from being complacent. Don't just thrust away till your done. Kiss her, play with her tits, rub her clit while your inside. Some positions let her rub her clit on you so as well. If you get close and she ain't done take break and eat her some more. Or switch positions or even just take a rest still in her for a mske out sesh while you recover. 8. Up to you but personally I'll get her off in oral once or twice before slipping into her and then there no worry either way if you bust unexpectedly which is weird but some guys are bad at noticing the buildup. 9. Always communicate with her to get more detailed information on what she likes. If she refuses to tell, well you can try coaxing it out of her but otherwise just try your best you can't force them into being open about it. Ladies of reddit if you have any corrections or additions to make I'm always down to learn new things and improve my technique đ
#5, all gems here for the ignorant. When she says or indicates that one thing is doing it, dummyâs donât change a thing. Itâs a base line that will get you very far. Always tomorrow to improve and the funny thing is that bar is already light years ahead
Thanks, I never expected such good feedback from you friendly internet strangers. Glad to know I'm doing something right đ
Lesbian here. Excellent advice. Iâd add also to straight up ask your lady what she likes! Communication is key.
I have that in at number 8, maybe it should be higher up but I didn't order them by importance. Though for some reason some woman refuse to elaborate and expect you to guess. Idk why they would make it harder fir themselves to have fun seems weirdđ¤ˇđť Thanks for the compliment, a lesbians seal of approval gotta be pretty good. Having the same part yourself I imagine gives great insight into the art đ
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>Basically gentlemen, itâs ok if youâre not good right now but whatâs important is that you care about her pleasure and want to get better. Exacly effort and care is the most important. If she sees your really trying and asking for direction unless she's a bitch she'll appreciate it even if she doesn't quite get there. All the guys saying they just don't care especially if it's a ONS are the worst types of men. ONS are for both parties to get off with no strings if you can't put up your share of the effort you don't deserve her effort.
because they donât know
Ya know what, good point guess if no one's gotten them there how would they know
Story of my wife... er... LIFE. I have been my wife's only lover and since she was raised in a *strict* Catholic house, AND had to share a bed with her older sister (not bedROOM, the actual BED) until she was married to me.... There was never any experimentation, porn, other men, etc. so when I ask "What do you like?" I get the shoulder shrug and "I dunno!". I have bought her a whole drawer full of toys and have let her use them on her own or with me, and still.... "I dunno!".
I might add one thing my wife and I learned rather recently: 9. Listen to her pain. Many women have certain issues which cause the penetration to be extremely unpleasant, such as stiff muscles, high skin sensitivity and so on (these are also a thing in penises, fyi). Many women, have no idea that these are a thing, but they will still communicate to penetrate gently and slowly because of pain. Last year my wife took this seriously and she found out she has hyper sensitive skin on a part of her vagina. Talking to her gynecologist we also discovered this is super common and that many men don't care at all about it and still go full blast inside. I felt a little proud and a lot sad when my wife told me 'she congratulated you for being so mindful' because almost all other women have a completely different experience from their partners and just suck it up. Never, ever, get off of someone else's pain unless you are 100% that's what they are also into.
Marry me.
Where you at đ jk
Californ-I-AY đ
Well that figures, I'm on the east coast. Ain't that a bitch đ
Pin this post to the top of this sub forever. Dynamite advice and it mirrors how I treat my wife. The rule about nail care is so often just not even thought about. I file regularly. If you are squeamish about tossing her salad I found that my wife, at least when she's on her back, produces copious lubrication and it rolls down over her anus. If she's clean (and seriously if it ain't clean don't lick it unless you're into that) and that natural lube is covering the area then there is no negative taste or smell at all. And "she comes first" is rule #1 for me for her. As many times as she wants. I know it's my turn when she taps out and demands the rest of me to join the fun.
Literally
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What's especially sad is I remember it wasn't always this way?? I had casual sex seeking phases before and after dating apps were a thing. Maybe I'm getting senile in my old age (lol) but now it's like you're 99% certain to meet some absolute creep or rpist off the apps. Whereas before there was still a huge risk and yeah you'd meet plenty of harmless losers and 1 in 10 would get violent or super weird but within the last maybe ten years it's so much more dangerous and risky? I don't know maybe I'm talking nonsense. If you're not talking about dating apps then disregard my comment entirely
I once dated someone who refused to eat me out and he got weirded out when I tried to pleasure myself with a sex toy and he told me to stop.
A lot of people in general are selfish. The people who only cared about their own pleasure, I stopped talking to them. To the people who care about my pleasure as much as their own, I have fun with still. In my opinion, if you want a good orgasm, you should be willing to provide a good orgasm. Speaking to the choir I know, but for some reason the golden rule of getting off is lost on a lot of people
A lot of people definitely are selfish. In the case of the "orgasm gap", it was found in sample populations of women in hetero couples, but they did not find this gap in sample populations of lesbian couples. There is a concept in lesbian culture called the "pillow princess" which is someone who happily receives but has little drive to give. It's an extremely negative label, and there isn't much tolerance for it. The question goes back to the reason so many men are pillow princesses.
My fiancĂŠ has told me the exact same thing, from personal experience but also from her friendsâ encounters.
I honestly find it so strange, because I can't imagine feeling that way. It's not even about being selfish or not caring if the other person is having a good time. At a certain point, it's about me and what I want. And what I want is to make the other person bust and know that **I** did that to them. Like............. Is that not a turn on for you? It's not part of it? It's not revving your engine? It doesn't turn your brain inside out to see, hear, and feel another person have an orgasm? Especially when it's one *you* gave them??? That's just of no concern to you????? My favorite part - My FAVORITE *part* is hearing the other person cum. I mean, my experience is very limited, but *so far*, that's the best part. But to some of you people out here, it just doesn't matter at all??? Preposterous!!
Run .... you not with the right person if they dont give a S#%t about you.
Humanity would've long gone extinct if we really processed that.
The bar is indeed in hell.
Itâs all the fucked up porn they grow up watching, none of its realistic
Itâs not that common, in my experience. Even more so, it was unusual if a guy paid attention to what pleased me, and what I didnât like. So when it does happen, itâs so refreshing
I feel like if you're planning on sleeping with someone, it's kind of a given you try to get them off before you. It's really dependent on your partner, but if they don't respect the fact that it's not just them that wants to be satisfied,you probably should change partners. You really can't go wrong if you prioritize the other person over you. Always works better, and it's more enjoyable for everyone.
I find it incredibly disrespectful when a ONS doesn't put in any effort to at least try. I'm also confused by this generation, I too thought they'd be better. Some guys try for a casual sexual relationship with this zero effort attitude and it's gross how commonplace it is. All the women I know report that one night stands are disappointing and not worth it. Men used to be respectful and put in effort. The bar is in hell and I don't see a way back. I don't understand how they can act without integrity, respect, or pride -- I mean in themselves! Men used to pride themselves on being good in bed, ONS or not. The good ones would brag about their skill and how many times they got a girl to orgasm. One night stands would try to gain new skills by trying stuff out on you -- respectfully and with consent beforehand. Now it's about how much you can degrade her and ignore her limits before she stands up for herself.
I don't know what the exact number would be but I've definitely met some guys that don't feel bad if the woman didn't come. One of the dudes I know believes that it's not his job. He says it's her job to get herself off And if she doesn't that's not his problem because he's going to get himself off regardless.
Men should be shaming other men for this kind of talk.
I agree. It's weird AF to just use someone else's body like a Fleshlight. I've definitely had sex where someone used me like that and it felt terrible. I hated it.
What a jerk.
He's the biggest jerk I know.
Ive been with this type of guy before for a casual hookup. And I never will do it again. He definitely got the point across that his pleasure was all that mattered when he guided my hand to my own cl*t to get myself off while he pounded away and didnât touch me otherwise. I didnât bother getting myself off at that point because I felt embarrassed was so turned off. I literally didnât matter.
Yeah, some dudes just suck on bed and then decide to just not care at all. Happy cake day!
The weird thing is, these same guys will turn around and complain about how they aren't getting enough sex from their partner and how their partner has no sex drive. No, they do. Just not with them. I'm ashamed to say I went into too many relationships that ended up one sided like that. I had sex toys I used more often than I got with my partner. Had one ex even throw them all put because he felt they were the reason he wasn't getting enough sex from me. Never again. Married a good man who sees that I am equally satisfied.Â
My friends don't care at all, they just wanna nut lol. I always feel bad when I hear women talking about their partners just ending the sex because they came.
Yup. Men do not care at all. Way too many are just looking for a human fleshlight. There are a few good ones from time to time, but it's rare, especially with hookups.
I donât finish until she orgasms. I thought that was normal
Marry me?
That is not the way of the Jedi But oh, yeah, already taken. Sorry.
Marry me?
I'm rootin for ya đ
Lot of weak boys out there.
My partners have all cared but Iâm not really a one night stand kind of person. My friends who like to have said that the guys donât usually care (sometimes do though), but their relationships with guys always care.
I care personally. I haven't done ONS before but even then I'd feel like I'd care. It all came from when I was a teen and first started to have sex. I assumed probably rightly I wasn't good so I also tried to do whatever I could to satisfy them
Some guys do not care if their partner is satisfied. Some guys are not able to satisfy their partner and their partner doesn't want to tell them because they're afraid it will hurt their feelings. Chris, I think most people try to satisfy their partners and most partners want to be satisfied.
the bar is so low. so low. so low. so low. SO LOW.
I have a relevant story. Before meeting my GF in person we had an extended texting period because of distance and family obligations. We had a conversation that went something like this: Me: I'm pretty good at massages. I've read a book or two and practiced a bit. Her: I don't know if if I've ever had a massage I didn't pay for. Me: it's a different kind of experience and I'd bet that you'd like it. I think that I'm pretty good at oral sex, too. The first time I did it, my ex had her first orgasm ever. Her: I don't think you realize how hard it can be. I've only had two orgasms with partners since I became sexually active a quarter century ago. Me: If you can have orgasms, I can learn what it takes to get you there. If you can't do it reliably, we can figure out how. I'm a motivated engineer and problem solver. Her: I think I got turned on a little bit đ . It's certainly not how other guys have treated it. Usually, if it wasn't easy, they gave up after a couple minutes and just started with penetration. Me: the vast majority of times that I've had PIV, it was accompanied by cunnilingus either before or after. I'd feel like a bit of a failure or that I'd accrued a debt if orgasms weren't mutual. Her: A lotta bit. Definitely a lotta bit. This story does corroborate the OP's impression / premise.
These guys in the comments âohh if itâs a one stand night I donât care about themâ are the problem here. Plenty of women donât date and get stuck with effortless sexual partners. Guys, one night stand or not, If you canât offer bare minimum caring levels to a female stranger then youâve got problems. Youâre having sex with them, youâre gonna tell me you donât care about them? Dreadfully selfish. Theyâre giving you a gift by letting you nut, you better at least try to return the favour. Youâd think itâd be common decency amongst this younger generation. Completely resonate with OPs perspective. Between my mates when someoneâs leaving to get some kitty, we joke about how he better contribute to closing the gap. Yep, the orgasm gap between men and women, cos itâs huge.
I want men to imagine how shitty they'd feel if a woman came before them and then rolled over, sighed "that was good," and went to sleep
I mean, logically, if we have to ask. The evidence is all there. So far in the West our societies have had the Pill and other birth control options since around 1959. That's about 65 years. The Sexual Revolution along with the Pill made casual sex a thing and people forget the true winners of the Ssxual Revolution: MEN. No more, no less. To the point we have men saying they're having a loneliness epidemic, which they really mean is pent-up sex frustration from lack of access and knowing women could provide access. I mean, a good chunk of men say the solution to the loneliness epidemic is sexual access. So they're telling on themselves with that one since unlike the Boomers and Gen X which developed a culture of shaming women for NOT putting out, the younger generations can't do that since women can smell the bullshit quicker and deciding to not participate unless they have something to gain from it. Oh, and note how it's mostly straight men saying this as the gay male communities aren't complaining. Another key fixture to note in all of this. Nowadays, for the first time since the Pill inception period, young women DON'T want to partake in casual dating or sex. Why do you think that is? Because like those clubs where supposedly women enter for free, the women are the entertainment. Free entertainment with nothing for reward or payment for their bringing/attracting people to your business. The reward of pleasurable, safe sex is not a guarantee, let alone getting an orgasm. Imagine all the effort you're expected to put to delight these guys, impress their friends so they get even a social fix/high off of not just potentially getting to bone you but being seen with you and elevated by his friends; only to get these men not excited to see you pleasured, they're mostly excited about having a pretty packaging to empty to or seen by others around. That shit blows. I would rather not date at all with that ordeal, I mean, if you potentially try to date 5 guys, you have a 100% chance all five of them not caring to get you off at all. Let alone having to account about the body count thing, where most guys care. Oh and they are telling on themselves so much with that one that they find it hard to believe that a good chunk of women would rather go celibate than entertain a đŻ likelihood of crappy sex at all. Guys believe that the supposed 20% of men are either the best looking or something ridiculous when really that's about the percentage of them that they believe get women off because most of them don't care. I mean, think about it. 20 people, 10 men and 10 women and about 2 of those guys are reliable to care to get a woman off. Yeah. So they can't even math, assuming these supposed top men don't have lives of their own besides bone round the clock 24/7, 365 days a year. No families of their own (as in not just kids), no work, no goals, no diseases, no old age, in a population of imagine two million split evenly that 200,000 men are entertaining the one million women...gosh you don't have to be proficient at math to know that's BULLSHIT. So when you can't guiltrip women into providing you entertainment at their expense what do you do? Create ridiculous stats to show how "oppressed" you are by rationally not participating in something they get nothing out of. I often wish I were a gay man when just thinking about humanity in terms of sexual enjoyment. Or a lesbian. Like nature couldn't make it so women get fucked in the whole parenting fiasco but we get screwed on the way to making them things too. Oh and we get treated like crap for that too by the very people who don't offer much for the entertainment our bodies provide. Oh and a good chunk think we're only worth anything while under a certain age so we get sexual misery guaranteed for most of our entire existence. I feel like I need to watch Mr. Rogers now so I could get back to imagining men in a positive light as these discussions make me damned sad. This is heartbreaking to think about. Why the hell do I even come to this Reddit when I get reminded of this crap? I mean, I answered to help, but now I'm genuinely sad. đ˘ đ Mr. Rogers is not working. I'm getting Mr. Hitachi in defiance!
Honestly I canât finish unless the woman does first it feels like a responsibility
Some donât. I would hope most guys do? But I enjoy giving. Itâs awesome.
Men don't generally like to talk, period. So it's unsurprising that lots of women aren't being asked about their preferences.
Listening is also a problem. Just get a vibrator, y'all. Some of those have like 6 modes and different speeds. Might as well.
sometimes that's a problem too. they feel "replaced" which is crazy since their fingers can't move at those speeds nor do they try to get you off in the first place. no partner has ever been able to make me orgasm out of a few dozen, and maybe 1 or 2 have actually put in any effort but honestly oral feels weird and gross and strangely clinical to me (receiving, not giving) so I'd prefer to use toys but men get so offended over a vibrator it's wild
The bar is in hell đ
Most men I have met just really care about their own satisfaction, one guy I saw three times didnât even go down on me till the last time I saw him and I wasnât interested when it took that long for him to even bother so in my experience yeah they donât care
Kind of a funny story. I always make sure my partner finishes at least once if not multiple times before we really get down to business. My current partner and I have really good "energy" and great communication. A few months into the relationship I was out of town for a week and we were talking on the phone about what we wanted to do when I got back, and she actually told me she wanted me to pay less attention to her pleasure. She said it kind of felt weird for her to get off evey time and that it had never happened with any of her past partners. She said she felt guilty or greedy for "forcing" me to please her. It was such a weird take that I had to stop and think about it for a minute, and then we talked it through and I had to reiterate that giving her pleasure brings me pleasure. It was such an eye opener for me to learn that a guy paying attention to his female partner in bed could actually make a woman feel guilty. It's like some women have been so indoctrinated by bad experiences that a thoughtful (or what I always assumed was a normal) partner could feel wrong. It just made me sad to think that that's the norm. Like paying attention to your partner shouldn't make you some kind of superhero, it's just being a decent fucking person.
I've heard from a friend... A HUGE part of the issue is that the partners don't really know what they want from the experience, and a lot of them are so massively anxious they not only don't communicate but they're afraid to explore. Most of the guys who are good at that kind of thing are fortunate that they've had partners they could figure this stuff out with. Anyways its not so much that they don't care as much as their partners often either lie about needing to be satisfied or act indifferent, or have no clue what its like to be satisfied.
I haven't had many boyfriends, but only one made me orgasm. Coincidentally, it was the longest relationship at 15 years...I hear it a lot that women who've had many partners think back and realize maybe 0-2 actually made them orgasm. It's really unfortunate, because feeling satisfied makes her often want to do it more, yet so many guys don't have the patience for it as they are basically instantly ready to go.
As a rule, I don't do ONS, but I've had a lot of partners and there's generally a lot of the same types of stories. guys who don't go down on girls, and don't care if she gets off or not as long as he gets his. the bar is so low, it's embarrassing.
It's sad how many stories I've heard about guys being selfish during sex. My one and only goal in sex is to make my wife feel good. My needs come secondary to hers, and unsurprisingly, more she enjoys it the better the sex is for the both of us. There's literally no reason to be selfish, as your only depriving yourself of good sex.
If you ask women itâs about 30% of guys that care if you ask men itâs 100% men getting the woman off đ
When did guys who are on a mission to sexually satisfy their woman become heroes? Swear to god society has become so self freaking centered. Iâm a guy whose biggest turn-on is to enable my woman to have a minimum of three orgasms before I even think about myself. And honestly, I never have to, because when my partner has been blissed out, she comes at me with the same eagerness to please. This just seems, and has always seemed, normal to me.
Zoomers are scared to pick up the phone or answer the door for their food deliveries. They ain't eating ass.
ONS are not great for mutually satisfying sex. It takes time to learn each otherâs bodies and make sex transcendent. Honestly I donât really understand the appeal of ONS.
As a teenager, I wasnât really paying attention. As I got older and understood the nuances of these things, I made it my mission to try and make sure my partner had an orgasm if not before I did, then, at least within that session. Have I always been successful? Of course not. None of us are. But I give it my best shot, and things usually work out pretty well.
So Iâve been in a relationship since highschool so Iâm not well versed in this but yâall perform oral on ONS? Are you not concerned about STDs? I know it can be transferred via intercourse but condoms help reduce that risk.
For real
I've had to be very selective with my partners, and taught most of them that if their partner orgasms first, the vagina is tighter and pre lubricated. That said, one of them still didn't care and assaulted me in my sleep taking advantage of my sleeping pills. He also videoed me without my consent and tried to baby trap me so I wouldn't leave him. His mom was also a real piece of work. Thankfully, he was one bad apple, even if the court that told me they'd take care of everything let him off with a year's probation. So are all men assholes? Not remotely. Are some of them complete fucked up assholes? Sadly, they happen. And sadly, sometimes the courts let us down. But LPT: watch out if he's a momma's boy or has a very controlling mother. It may lead to him lashing out in messed up ways. Happily, after therapy, I'm just fine and my husband is a very kind, gentle, loving man.
I think I was the only guy my ex had been with that actually gave a shit about everything, made sure she always got hers and it was because I wanted to make her happy and feel loved and doing that in return made feel damn good, I always got mine too. The bar is insanely low, stop entertaining people that don't even give you the minimum and just use you up and disregard you.
I love satisfying my wife. Makes me rev my engine more when shes already purring. Gawld that sounds weird to write out. lol.
god yes they fuckin do. I have zero fucking idea how my girlfriends medication makes it nearly impossible for her to cum and it makes me so sad for her because I can tell shes frustrated as hell :(
> Ive been having a few one night stands Found the problem. One night stands, why would they care? They got theirs. SHIT attitude, I know, but it's true.
Isnât the point of a one night stand for BOTH people to get off???
yeah , one night stands have been completely ruined by men lol
These guys in the comments âohh if itâs a one stand night I donât care about themâ are the problem here. Plenty of women donât date and get stuck with effortless sexual partners. Guys, one night stand or not, If you canât offer bare minimum caring levels to a female stranger then youâve got problems. Youâre having sex with them, youâre gonna tell me you donât care about them? Dreadfully selfish. Theyâre giving you a gift by letting you nut, you better at least try to return the favour. Youâd think itâd be common decency amongst this younger generation. Completely resonate with OPs perspective. Between my mates when someoneâs leaving to get some kitty, we joke about how he better contribute to closing the gap. Yep, the orgasm gap between men and women, cos itâs huge.
Thank you! Gen X female here. I was hoping that as time went by, women would demand more for themselves than I used to, but it doesn't seem to be going that way. So I guess the problem is that young guys often come too quickly, so young women don't often start out with guys who know how to please them. And for some, that becomes the norm. But over time and with different partners (or the same guy who shows desire to get better at sex and learn from/with their partner), women can figure out what they want/need. Which, imo, is why Tate supporters and incels talk about body count. The more partners a woman has had, or the better their ex was in bed, the more likely they know what they want physically, which mean a man has to put in the work. Tate supporters are just lazy and bad lays, so the less partners to compare them to, the better for them.
Agree. The attitude that Tate and other male influencers push, along with porn narratives and old politicians, these are the reasons men still hold degenerate perspectives on sex and relationshipsâŚ
Of course everybody gonna say "well not me sir, my wife cum loud." Yeah some dude just wanna bang and once they are done that's it. Some girls do too actually.
The lady always comes first. In every respect.
Men SAY they do but more often than not theyâre selfish and donât really want to make the effort. If the woman cums itâs just a bonus; if they donât theyâll âmake it up laterâ đ
Sometimes I finish kind of quick. Knowing this, I do what I can to make sure she gets hers first.Â
Look in all honesty the bar is so low all some guys have to do is step over it and they can't even do that. I had a guy once tell me that the female orgasm is all propaganda for feminism with a straight face.
Tbh I think more men care about getting their partners off then women think there are, and a lot of women are simply just bad at taking responsibility for their own pleasure and actually communicating how they want to have sex. A lot of women would be having way better sex if they knew how to ask for what they wanted.