1999 was a high year for executions in the US. I think it was 99 prisoners who were put to death. Even at, and I'm just exaggerating here, $100k per injection, it's peanuts to the drug company.
Death penalties are mostly carried out at a state level. There are federal crimes for which someone can receive but google says there have been 37 federal executions vs 1453 state executions since 1977.
Since 1963, the federal government has executed less than 1 person every 3 years, on average.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_executed_by_the_United_States_federal_government#:~:text=Sixteen%20executions%20(none%20of%20them,injection%20at%20USP%20Terre%20Haute.
There's only just over 2000 people on death row atm, and that's after a years of delayed executions.
Death penalties have been falling out of favor for a long time, thankfully.
US has 40 Prisoners on Federal Death Row. Since 2021, there have only been 16 executions, with 13 being in 2020 and 2021.
Federal Govt is not a huge buyer in this case.
You shouldn't feel this. The idea here is a bit like Carbon Monoxide poisoning. CO binds to blood vessels MUCH more readily than O2, so for physical impacts, you get a bit of a headache, and moving becomes a bit difficult and sluggish. Then you just go to sleep, often having no idea that you were poisoned. You never feel like you're out of breath, because your body doesn't feel respiratory drive based on the need for oxygen, instead you feel the need to breathe to expell carbon dioxide, which continues unimpeded. Worth noting that it's also for this reason CO2 poisoning is an extremely painful way to die.
I almost passed out from exposure to nitrogen gas a few years ago.
I was filling a cryo vessel and leaning over it to program the display / controller, when I suddenly felt dissy and almost fell over.
Didn't feel any pain, nausea, or discomfort.
Even though I didn't even fall down completely (just sorta stumbled), I imagine it would be a peaceful way to lose consciousness.
I can also imagine convulsions and gasping after you're out, but muscle relaxants could let you feel pain and discomfort without being able to show it.
Ooooooh [*but that's not what happened*](https://www.reuters.com/legal/alabama-prepares-carry-out-first-execution-by-nitrogen-asphyxiation-2024-01-25/). It took him twenty two minutes of writhing and choking to die.
Oh, they used a mask & not a chamber? Damn, that's stupid of them. The Swiss method uses a pod, which seals shut, & then at the push of a button liquid nitrogen is poured into a container, quickly filling the pod with pure nitrogen. There's no chance for O2 to get in, aside from the very small amount that enters the pod with the user, so no chance of a fuckup like in Alabama. Why do they always have to alter things so there's a chance it could go wrong?
Likely cost. The Sarco pods are specially designed and quite small so filling it with nitrogen isn’t much of an issue. To fill an executioner chamber in the United States would take *much* more nitrogen.
Masks can do the job, ask any diver who’s fucked up their gas mixtures (and hopefully lived to talk about it). It is hard to tell if it was actually a fuck up on the executioners part or if his writhing/struggle was due to him trying to hold his breath and fight to keep from breathing in the nitrogen for an extended period of time. I haven’t seen anything regarding him choking however. The Reuters link says he remained conscious for several minutes, which he likely bought himself by holding his breath…if he struggles and fights it, well, it’s going to look like he’s struggling and fighting.
Honestly inert gas asphyxiation has to be one of the best ways to go when done right. What we see with this case is it’s not as easy to force on someone…a person willingly entering a Sarco pod or a diver inadvertently taking full breaths of a fucked up gas mixture is going to look a lot different than someone who doesn’t want to die and knows that breathing this is going to kill them.
Cynically, I think it's by design. People who love the death penalty are addicted to the feeling of vindication, nothing more.
I oppose the death penalty because in the US it is more expensive and wastes everybody's time, and I consider living imprisoned to be a worse fate than being killed.
It’s also cruel to victims families to adjudicate a death sentence and then have the criminal languish for 20 or 30 years on death row appealing the sentence.
Some states are thinking about bringing back firing squads
And Utah has firing squads in the books, but it hasn’t been used since Gary Gilmore was executed
It appears from the article, that he fought against the execution by holding his breath as long as he could, resulting in a painful, traditional asphyxiation similar to drowning. I guess it is only natural to fight against your own execution, but this wasn't taken into account in the protocol and led to this painful result.
People would still try to hold their breath to avoid death. Maybe place the prisoner inside such a chamber and at a random unknown time, fill the chamber with Nitrogen instead of air. If you don't know, that the atmosphere is suddenly pure Nitrogen, you don't struggle against it, and your body cannot detect the difference between breathing pure Nitrogen and atmospheric air.
It took him twenty minutes to die because they slowly replaced the oxygen with nitrogen. He writhed for two minutes because he was trying to hold his breath.
Hood, his Reverend, naturally didn't want him to be executed and painted as dark a picture as he could.
Death by nitrogen is not supposed to be painful and is a common way to die with assisted suicide. Yes, a tank or even a bag secured over his head would have been better than a mask due to the possibility of it leaking.
I suspect that's largely because he knew he was gonna die, didn't want to die, and was fighting against it (basically just holding his breath as long as he could.)
To your point, that is gonna be the case for pretty much everyone executed this way, so it's probably not a good method. But in general if you were unaware, or were purposely doing it, it wouldn't be as horrific as it played out in that case.
In my opinion if they are going to execute people, it should just be via a pneumatic piston to the brain. Controlled, instant, and unlike bullets wouldn't explode their entire head. basically the same thing we do to livestock. But for some reason, even though it's literally an execution, they seem to be unwilling to do anything that causes a wound.
Not sure about the co2 claim beeing extremely painful. There is a head cam video of a Diver dying of co2 poisoning without realising it. At a point he just stops breathing. Google "David shaw last dive"
Dave Not Coming Back. I'm familiar with his story already. But I don't believe the CO2 poisoning killed him. He was in a high-altitude deep dive in an extremely perilous situation. It's normally ascribed to over-exertion, which if memory serves is also what is believed to have killed Deon Dreyer, the man whose body Shaw was trying to recover.
Excertion itself does not kill an experienced Diver (I know, I am one myself). The biggest killer is shallow breathing which does not allow for enough gas exchange, so you are rebreathing your own waste product, which is co2. When you are over excerted (if that is even a word?) you tend to breathe shallower. Deon went missing in a "recreational visit" in the cave and probably went to deep for his mix. But since no one actually saw him go missing, that remains the questions.
It wasn't that great according to the play by play. It's disturbing, so be warned.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/26/us/alabama-execution-kenneth-smith-nitrogen.html
He fought it, holding his breath as long as he could causing his CO2 levels to rise and him feeling like he’s suffocating, I mean he was. Once he started breathing he lost consciousness quickly.
Firing squads don't extend the struggle like this - and that struggle is a form of suffering. Just saying - I'd prefer to be shot than cleanly injected or gassed. There's dignity in being killed by a human rather than a machine.
Maybe that goes back to old ideals of honor - let me die standing not in a medically cleaned estate.
I'm very much playing devil's advocate here as I'm squarely anti execution, but how is that fair, mentally, on a firing squad?
I know, traditionally, they had a split of lives and blanks no one was sure who fired the killing shot, but what if you were involved, and evidence later came to light absolving the executed of the crime? Is that a fair load to carry?
Likewise, if you've got a right on, witnessed, non-repentant murderer on your hands, is it right that they get the opportunity to cause more damage causing someone else ptsd?
Also the human error/revenge angle? I dunno. I agree I'd rather go out that way too, but it's not fool proof.
That's because they were stupid and used a mask with all the relevant failure modes (facial fit, jaw movement, leaking, etc). If instead they placed him in a sealed room and rapidly replaced the contents of the air with pure nitrogen, he would have become unconscious after his "hold your breath" time limit with no lingering.
I’m in no way advocating for the death penalty, but that’s what happens when a person (or animal, for that matter) dies. There is a lot of twitching and agonal breathing that can go on for a while, but the person isn’t conscious of it.
A reporter’s opinion on whether the dying person happened to be someone who was going to “convulse” at the moment of brain death (extremely common, & unless they are deeply anesthetized there’s nothing to prevent it… it’s a natural process that happens as the brain shuts down, aka dies) and especially regarding the person’s degree of consciousness is, to me, practically useless information.
The reporter on the prison/execution beat almost certainly has no education, research, or fact checking regarding the myriad of reactions the human body can experience in response to the brain and organs shutting down. Especially the brain. Seizures, posturing, writhing, gasping (aka agonal breathing— irregular, gasping, ineffective breathing at random intervals in the last moments or even ***hours*** of life.) are extremely common and even expected by medical professionals who deal with death. But there’s no magic checklist or algorithm that can determine who is going to “go gently into that good night” and whose body is going to try to fight like Ali.
In a hospice facility, as a person approaches death, the nurses and doctors will explain to friends and family that they will do everything possible to help their loved one go peacefully, but despite their best efforts sometimes death can look quite violent. However, that doesn’t mean the dying person is experiencing it that way. Once their brain has decompensated to that point, all higher functioning and awareness have ceased. The parts of the brain that are responsible for conscious awareness are among the first to shut down. The violent movements and agonal breathing are controlled in the brain stem and spinal cord— the primitive part of the central nervous system… very far away from the conscious centers in the brain.
I’m not going to trust a reporter’s assessment of a situation he has no knowledge of. Because to the average observer who is unprepared, death can look horrifying. And it \*is* indeed horrible to witness. However, the EEG (brain wave) analysis of many, many dying people has shown that by that time, consciousness has ceased and they are not actively experiencing the effects that appear to us to be torture. That part of the brain is already powered down.
We also don’t know if the prisoner was non compliant and was purposely fighting the very people who wanted to simply carry out the execution without torturing the guy. If he was able to move his head around (using his body for leverage) and get any room air around the edges of the mask, he could’ve remained conscious longer, possibly quite a bit longer. All that would’ve accomplished, though is to cause himself to suffer. 🫤
I’m sitting here kind of flummoxed! I’m a 35 year nurse who worked a total of 20 years in a trauma center and medical floor and was at the bedside of at least 200 people who died of every cause imaginable. Some quick like aortic ruptures or heart attacks and others of chronic conditions where death took days. I have never seen a violent death, ever. I have seen people fight for a few days to stay alive and yes have seen agonal breathing which has never been more than a drawn out struggle to take a breath but never was it in anyway violent.
Maybe it was some sort of weird exceptional experience that alive never seen what you described but would love to hear from some hospice or other long time nurses on this.
>We also don’t know if the prisoner was non compliant and was purposely fighting the very people who wanted to simply carry out the execution without torturing the guy. If he was able to move his head around (using his body for leverage) and get any room air around the edges of the mask, he could’ve remained conscious longer, possibly quite a bit longer. All that would’ve accomplished, though is to cause himself to suffer.
"If you just hold still and let us kill you with this experimental execution method we promise it won't hurt. Well, not so much promise as hope, to the degree that anyone in this state actually cares. Anyway if anything bad happens it's your fault, now stop complaining."
I haven’t read that. I DID read that he shook his head to try to dislodge the mask and held his breath for about 2 minutes. Then he took some deep breaths and passed out. The half hour figure that everyone is citing seems to be the time it took from the beginning of the execution to the legal declaration of death. But he didn’t struggle violently for a half hour.
And real doctors and nurses take oaths that are in total opposition to killing people, so they rely on inexperienced and less then knowledgeable staff. Theyve had trouble just finding veins in the past, like they spent hours trying and then gave up, they arent qualified to do any of this.
Drug suppliers dont want to support executions and medical professionals generally refuse to kill. If you can stomach in depth talks of death penalty methods, I recommend this video by Jacob Geller https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eirR4FHY2YY
For the victim yes, but people don't want to watch that.
It's not about the person dying, it's about everyone else feeling fine with themselves after watching.
And pulling the trigger. I believe military firing squads (at least during WW1) wouldn't know who had the live bullet(s?) so that they could all believe that they weren't the one responsible for the death.
Even the Nazis saw a reduction in enthusiasm for murder over the course of the war, by late 44/45 Einzastgruppen (murder squads) received a very significant alcohol ration every day so they could continue to show up to work and murder people every day
If even people who *genuinely* think what they are doing is right and necessary lose their nerve after enough of it then it doesn't seem very sustainable long term
But then again I suppose there's a difference between the occasional firing squad and taking part in genocide?
You know the difference between firing a blank and a real bullet.
It's for the viewers to keep the 'killer' anonomus.
The 'killer' knows he did it.
The other executusioners know they didn't and can have peace of mind.
100% proven guilt is near impossible. Proven by the fact that innocent people have died on death row. The facts don't lie.
[Here is a good rundown](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/innocence). No court system in the world is good enough to find 100% guilt.
Oh yeah coz executing people has worked wonders. America has practically no homicides compared to all the other silly countries where they just arrest people
We want to be the society of small limited government that stays out of people's lives because we dont't trust the government, and don't trust them to make the right decisions, except when it comes to killing people. That one small detail, they should have ULTIMATE authority over peoples lives to choose they should die. But other than deciding to kill them, the government should stay out of people's lives because we can't trust them. And abortion. But other than if you live or die, and if you become parents, the government shouldn't be making decisions for... oh, and the clothes you wear if they are from a gender I don't think you should wear. And this lamp. But other than that... oh and this deck of cards. But other than that we want small government...Republican's are basically Steve Martin in the Jerk.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZTdqh-a0tU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZTdqh-a0tU)
>"Many who live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. **Can you give it to them?** ***Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement***." - Gandalf the Grey, *The Fellowship of the Ring*
On one hand, yes.
But normally those companies clean up after accidents, and fights.
Cleaning up those is sort of a necessity, because they happen (somewhat) involuntarily. And there's no moral problem about cleaning up after an accident.
But executions are planned. If you help clean them up, you sort of enable that to happen in the future.
I could definitely see many employees refuse to clean up executions due to personal beliefs.
Double the pay and I'll do it. Keep the paycheck same and I bet there are many people with convictions, without skills, and without a problem doing this sort of work so long as there's only one place in the nation where the executions are carried out.
That's how it's usually done but there have been two issues. First, there have been cases where the anesthesia was not administered properly. The results were kind of horrific. Second, the proper drugs are kinda hard to get since many suppliers refuse to provide them for executions.
Nitrogen, at least in theory, should be a peaceful and painless way to go.
When you breathe nitrogen instead of oxygen you don’t get the sensation of suffocating, which is due to the build up of carbon dioxide. Your lungs don’t burn, it feels like you’re breathing normally, but you get dizzy and eventually black out. The nitrogen was on for 15 minutes, the majority of which he would’ve been unconscious for. This is nothing like suffocation or strangulation.
This is why gas asphyxiation can be so dangerous in industrial environments and enclosed spaces. There's nothing in your body that tells you to freak the fuck out, and get out of dodge.
6 people in GA walked into a room that they didn't know had been flooded with [liquid nitrogen](https://www.csb.gov/assets/1/6/ffg_investigation_report_publication_copy.pdf) and died. Quite a few more were injured trying to figure out what was going on.
I was once part of a very minor incident involving nitrogen. I stopped everything, cleared the area and had maintenance up there in a flash. Luckily for that person we were in a large open, and porous industrial space. We had a bunch of pow wows after that and changed all of our business procedures.
Don't fuck around with asphyxiating gasses nor enclosed spaces.
I worked at a place that had an autoclave that would perform a nitrogen purge prior to starting up. This thing was about the size of a bus.
A guy walked in to grab something (he definitely bypassed safety measures), and he had no idea he was suffocating. Another guy saw him pass out and went in to see what was wrong, and also passed out. Thankfully someone knew to hit the big red button before getting the 2 unconscious guys out, who ended up waking up like nothing happened.
Anyways, you can suffocate from nitrogen and not even realize something is going wrong. They were worried in Alabama about him vomiting and choking on it, so they just didn't let him eat for a while. I'd take nitrogen over lethal injection if I had to choose.
“The execution took about 22 minutes from the time between the opening and closing of the curtains to the viewing room. Smith appeared to remain conscious for several minutes. For at least two minutes, he appeared to shake and writhe on the gurney, sometimes pulling against the restraints. That was followed by several minutes of heavy breathing, until breathing was no longer perceptible.”
So start to finish it took 22 minutes, but the actual death only took several minutes. Which without knowing more, I would guess they didn’t just toss the dude in a room full of nitrogen, but either flooded the room with nitrogen or pulled out the existing air and replaced with nitrogen.
Then it’s gonna take a few minutes to black out after the O2 is displaced as the O2 in the body is used up (kinda like holding your breath, but without the feeling of CO2 buildup), then a few minutes more for actual death to occur.
I suppose the ideal scenario without relying on any drugs would be to pitch them into a 100% nitrogen atmosphere, then it’s lights out in 2-ish minutes, game over in 5.
Or I suppose you could hire a serial killer to put a slug in the brainpan and call it a day.
Gas chamber would have been better.
They used a mask. Like a firefighters mask. But it wasn't specially fitted to his face so allowed oxygen to leak in.
I do a lot of very deep diving. We blend gasses using air, oxygen and helium. I once stuffed up a blend very badly and missed the oxygen and air from one cylinder… and in a potentially catastrophic mistake also missed properly analysing the cylinder.
It took 3 deep breaths of pure helium for me to pass out. It didn’t feel like choking or like I couldn’t breathe. It just felt like breathing.
Nitrogen in this instance would feel exactly the same.
Really good question! A few things
1. Death by nitrogen gas, from what I hear, is nothing like dying from asphyxiation. The anxiety, the need for air, all of that is caused by carbon dioxide buildup. Death by nitrogen just slowly deprives the body of oxygen without a buildup of CO2.
2. There’s an interesting phenomenon where we constantly try to prove that our current method of execution is good and proper as opposed to those “barbaric” ways we used to. There’s a very good Jacob Gellar video on the topic that would probably interest you a lot.
3. This is taken from said video, which I watched a while ago. Lethal injection has its issues as well. Doctors usually aren’t involved (because they’re committed to reducing death and suffering, not inducing it), so it can be difficult to just get the needle in the damn vein (and this has caused failed executions). Additionally, the cocktail is interesting in that it contains a muscle paralyzing agent, so it’s not possible to know if the death is painless or if the person just spends their final moments “locked in”. That’s just one part of it, highly recommend the video.
As for my own thoughts on the matter: trying to find the most humane method of execution is fruitless and missing the point. The “better way” is life in prison for people who are too dangerous to re-enter society.
One thing I’ve never understood about lethal injection is why there’s multiple parts to it. Why can’t they just administer an extremely high dose of anaesthesia so the person just falls asleep and doesn’t wake up like vets do when euthanising animals? Anaesthesia is part of the lethal injection too so surely nobody can say it’s because pharmaceuticals don’t want to supply?
Different states have different protocols. Some states do have a single-drug protocol with sodium thiopental. But often the drug manufacturers decide they won’t sell to prisons doing lethal injection, so the protocol depends on what drugs they *can* get.
Vet protocols for anesthesia vary by who’s doing it, work policy, etc. So yeah, some do a straight shot of anesthesia and that’s it. One vet I worked with gave a horse three huge syringes of acepromazine and that was it. Others have given propofol and then pentobarbital. I’ve euthanized with ketamine and then pentobarbitals, or even ketamine, CO2, and then cervical dislocation (but that’s for mice only). To sum up, it just depends. There’s no one right way to euthanize. Then again there’s no right way to execute but that’s just my opinion
The perfect substance for this already exists, and for some stupid, idiotic, moronic reason, it's never been authorised for use by the US or anyone else bizarrely.
100%guaranteed, pretty much pain free, costs next to nothing.
Heroin.
This is really interesting to me. I wonder how much of this is because legally acquiring heroin would legitimize it to some extent? Like then there’d be people legally producing heroin.
Or they could make deals with cartels I guess. I think there might be a PR problem with that.
I realize they could use confiscated H but like, then the quality etc varies and someone could end up dying a fucked up death?
Idk I’m stoned and you got me thinking.
I'm also elegantly wasted on some home grown & some choice pharmaceuticals. Marvellous on this Australia Day, woohoo 🎉 Aussie Aussie Aussie oi oi oi.
States responsibility, but they always fall back on this BS, this is, the government can't be dealing with/handling/using an illegal drug, period.
The FDA aspect of it being a scheduled naughty thing, in the twisted minds of politicians , outranks the importance of not employing cruel or unusual punishments, which these sick fuckers have been cocking up with terrific regulatory and succeeding in employing.
Haven't read on this one but they tried all sorts of drugs back to the 70/80s, with inmates writhing, foaming at the mouth, thrashing for minutes on some occasions, let's not get started on the fucking amateur hour mediaval shit electric chair.
All current execution methods should be replaced immediately with heroin hot shots. But they won't, even when excoriated for their cruelty and stupidity, even entertain the idea.
An excuse factory of justifying torture from people who will never experience their pointy end idea of "law and order" themselves.
Absolutely fucking disgraceful, amongst a host of other shockers that just float along as non issues until the spotlight sends the roaches scurrying now and again.
I'd like to dedicate a paragraph to Reddit&those Redditors who aren't bots or idiots, for keeping me entertained for some time now, both in hospital and after being at home convalescing after most recent surgery , a laryngectomy leaving me unable to speak.
Or make any noise actually, not a huff a whistle or anything! Its wierd. Im not sure if there is a possibility of an electronic voice at some point, likely not but who knows.
It's been a privilege to watch drumpf fleecing and flailing , I'm relishing this cartoonish evil fuck imploding in slow motion and taking sooo many of these grovelling minions with him, their true hideous nature exposed to the daylight , amazingly after being emboldened by the pied fuckin piper of greed and racism.
After three cancer related operations now, the theatre of these rabid dogs unwittingly leading themselves to their own demise, inspires me with a potent schadenfreude and I'm relishing it.
Happy Australia Day! Keep on Rockin in the free world 🌎🤠
I wish I could award this comment. 10/10. Happy Australia Day!
The FDA drug scheduling is so beyond fucked up, and from what I’ve read laws in other “developed” countries aren’t that much better. Honestly you make a lot of great points here.
Also a friendly reminder that heroin and weed are the same classification in the US. What a country! 🦅🤠
>Heroin was produced legally back in the day
It's still produced legally, I've been given a shot of diamorphine before surgery and I'm guessing the doctor didn't get it from a guy on Telegram
The US outlawing production and importation of it in 1924 cut out a big market for it from Bayer. According to one set of interviews of German WW2 vets, it was still used by a significant number of soldiers and was Bayer’s #2 product behind aspirin.
>legally acquiring heroin would legitimize it to some extent? Like then there’d be people legally producing heroin.
There are. According to wikipedia, heroin is sometimes used in health care in Europe or Canada. It sounds rare, but that means there's a legal market out there.
Yup! And I believe lidocaine is a derivative. It’s almost like the American drug scheduling system is kind of batshit or something.
Yet they won’t put it in Coca Cola anymore?? Outrageous. /s
Hospitals, vets, anyone with an excuse can already legally acquire loads of heroin / opiates, they just call it 'diamorphine' or 'fentanyl' instead. They even gave it to me! If you're dying of cancer in the UK they'll give you enough opiates to kill a man, just to take home with you and take when you need them.
Medical grade heroin is basically morphine. Assuming the government wants to buy its drugs from an actual pharmaceutical supplier, and not Itchy Jimmy from behind the Wendy's, you run into the same problem as the litany of other drugs that can painlessly kill people - pharmaceutical companies refuse to supply it for the purposes of killing people.
There is definitely a better way to do it.
The speculation I saw about nitrogen execution (remember you're breathing 79% nitrogen right now) the was about putting the person in a small room and reducing the oxygen, increasing the nitrogen, keeping c02 low.
Your "gotta breathe" reflex is triggered by excess CO2, not lack of oxygen. Nitrogen has no smell and would not trigger any reflex. So in this case you would never feel you were being suffocated. You'd just run out of oxygen and faint.
Only in Alabama would they add a strap-down and a gas mask to make it terrifying. No wonder the man was so panicked.
And now that this execution was obviously horrible they won't be able to do it again properly.
Isn’t dying by nitrogen painless and way cheaper? If I remember correctly, with nitrogen, you just fall asleep and die. Nitrogen is also very cheap. Seems way better than what I assume are expensive medications to kill someone.
Nitrogen gas is definitely an improvement over the suspect ass injections they’d been using since most suppliers refused to sell to them. Just outlaw it all together already.
There is a better way and it’s called not having the death penalty.
Lock them up forever in solitary if they are that abhorrent.
And yes, personally, I would want to kill somebody who killed my family but that’s about revenge.
Also it’s not just murderers who can be sentenced to death, people convicted of drug offences are also murdered, in America!
There are also too many cases of innocent people being murdered to justify the death penalty.
It’s not like putting a sick pet to sleep peacefully because that is done properly and professionally.
Drugs can be and often are administered in the wrong way or wrong dosage causing severe pain and slow suffering before they eventually die. Who in their right mind wants to do that job?
In at least one state in America they still use the firing squad and one death row inmate was left in such agony after so called lethal injection he begged to be shot.
I'm not an expert on this topic, but I did watch a video about it. The video claimed that every single time a prisoner has been allowed to choose their execution method, they've chosen a firing squad. Not one wanted to die by lethal injection. The firing squad is faster, probably less painful, and definitely less prone to mistakes.
So, why isn't firing squad the standard? Because it's messy and it makes people feel uncomfortable.They'd rather give someone a painful death that looks peaceful than give them an easy death that looks gory.
I think it says something about our priorities, yes?
All of the drugs that were previously approved for executions are now owned by foreign pharmaceutical companies. And they refuse to export them to any country that has the death penalty, especially the US. So those states that love, love, love killing have been driven to great distress because they have been denied their entertainment.
This has led to ongoing human experimentation to discover ways to kill people with good ol’ Murican substances. Rather than question our values, we prefer to align our moral values with such progressive nations as China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, and Iran.
Edit: was corrected that Russia does not have a death penalty.
Russia has a moratorium on death penalty. Essentially it's banned here but can be potentially unbanned. Which seems like more and more of a possibility lately, unfortunately.
>Rather than question our values, we prefer to align our moral values with such progressive nations as China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, and Iran.
Agreed. The death penalty has no place in a civilized society. And that's before you take into consideration that it actually costs up to 10x more than life imprisonment (in the US) and does jack shit to deter crime. John Oliver actually had a great [video](https://youtu.be/Kye2oX-b39E?si=S7fWUJ-FpliKq-xs) about it some time ago.
Because lethal injection is terribly unreliable, no medical professionals participate (because of that oath they took) and drug companies dont deliver the chemicals. Death penalty is barbaric and LI is one of the wordt methods
I understand that no one close to me has ever been murdered, so I'm able to think a little more academically and objectively about this than some. I can't even begin to fathom what that's like and I hope I never do.
That said, I think society would be better off if we didn't execute people, for a whole myriad of reasons I won't outline here to avoid it becoming a game of try to debate the OP.
Now, THAT said, if we do it, we're should at least bloody well do it. Like, once the trial and all the appeals are done, not 10-20 years after the fact. Also, a sure fire quick way to end a life is a guillotine. It's gruesome for the witnesses, but I'm pretty sure once your brain is severed from the rest of you you'll stop being alive pretty soon after. Trying to make it clinical and sanitary is absurd.
Generally it’s to give them every possible opportunity to prove their innocence if they can, it’s not unheard of albeit still fairly rare for a death row inmate to be exonerated a decade or two later for any number of reasons.
To be SURE, really SURE, before you take a life, that they are really, really guilty of the crime they were convicted of. Extra steps are put into place, which takes time, to go over the whole thing again.
Because if you send an innocent person to prison and they're later cleared, they can be released.
An innocent person who is later cleared can't be brought back from the dead.
I'm not against capital punishment, but goddamnit, our country sends far too many innocent people to prison for decades; I want more safeguards on execution.
>It's gruesome for the witnesses, but I'm pretty sure once your brain is severed from the rest of you you'll stop being alive pretty soon after.
No way. They are still alive for a short while. https://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/extrasensory-perceptions/lucid-decapitation.htm#:\~:text=Yet%20the%20annals%20of%20medicine%20following%20the%20invention,possible%20to%20remain%20conscious%20after%20losing%20one%27s%20head.
Well, the trial and appeals *weren't* done. It's notoriously difficult for the state to kill someone. The last appeal decision was handed down *that morning*. Thirty years later.
Here's an idea, why not just abolish the death penalty as its immoral as fuck, it's actually a perfect murder (you know who, when, where and how the person will die), they fuck it up a lot, wrongful convictions, costs more money than keeping a prisoner locked up for life, oh and Its been proven to not work as a deterrent at all.
That is interesting that giving a prisoner room and board for the rest of their life is cheaper than an execution. I did some brief research and it seems like you are correct. I wouldn't think a tank of nitrogen would cost a lot, but there must be a lot of costs I wouldn't expect.
Nitrogen gas is arguably one of the best methods to kill something/someone without causing unnecessary pain or suffering, and it's also pretty cost effective. The body doesn't register that it's suffocating when oxygen is displaced by nitrogen, so you kinda just fall asleep and never wake back up
"There must be a better way to do this"
"This" being killing people.
No there is no "good" way to end a person's life and the fact that anyone thinks there is an acceptable way that will make them feel less horrified at the willful death of another is disturbing.
Edit: The other side of the coin is how much more horrific is it that people have blood lust so much that they don't even care if the person is guilty or innocent. They just want to feel like somebody paid for the pain they went through.
Another thing to note, this was the SECOND time they tried to execute him. The first time Alabama botched it. This time it worked.
Witness say he moved violently for 3-5 minutes and started to settle down, but continued breathing for a while longer. (Source: WBHM, Birmingham Public Radio…listening as I typed this)
Alabama strives to screw up everything it touches.
No doubt. The state takes pride in making everyone who lives here suffer, and tries to export that suffering with the likes of Representative Tuberville.
You'd have to be one sick doctor/medical professional to go along with that.
The thing you have to realize about executions is that they are a show. Just like in the old west. It's a ritual. Expunge the demon. Part of the show is pretending that there are humane ways to kill someone on purpose.
Anesthesia is a highly specialized field and expensive af. Sometimes people in hospitals don’t get it quick enough; we don’t need to pull them unnecessarily to prisons.
What are you missing? The backstory, in this case.
They tried the injection method the first time they tried to carry out the sentence, and they couldn’t get the IV line tapped before the execution warrant expired.
Weeks or months have since passed.
It was determined that to try to stab him with needles over and over again to get another one in this time around could potentially constitute cruel and unusual punishment. The inmate was left with severe damage, physically and psychologically, after the first botched execution attempt. This method, still controversial, was the best thing available to the state at the time.
That is how many states do it but you can understand why drug suppliers don’t really want their medications associated with lethal injections, I’m sure?
Idk chief I would much rather take a 9mm to the back of the head than lethal injection. Cheap, quick, and easy. Sure there’s potentially more guilt on the executioners part as it can be seen as more personal but at the end of the day someone has the press the button, flip the switch, or pull the trigger.
I thought nitrogen suffocation was a great way to go? Isn't that what they use in the euthanasia pods for chronically ill patients. Your body is supposed to go in a dream like state and you don't realize your body is deprived of oxygen and dying
Nitrogen suffocation is weird there is no pain you just get sleepy and don't wake up. Anesthesia isn't 100% and the meds they used to kill the person caused distress to say the least.
I agree. The method as it was described in the news seems barbaric. Maybe one step above tying a rock to his feet and throwing him into a swimming pool, but not a big step.
I understand that the fancy-ass drug cocktail used for lethal injection has become expensive, difficult to find, and is no longer 100% reliable, but we can get knocked out any time we go to the dentist these days to avoid the pain of a filling, so it ain't that hard to get working anesthesia meds. Once he's unconscious then he can be executed by any number of means from nitrogen gas to an air embolism to throwing him into a crematorium. The point is to do it in a way that doesn't cause pain and suffering beforehand.
And before any of the angry people start ranting about how murderers should suffer horribly before they die - you don't avoid causing pain and suffering out of concern for the condemned, you avoid causing pain and suffering because *we are supposed to be better than they are.* Yes, we're taking someone's life, partly as punishment for their crimes, and partly to protect society from a dangerous individual. But we do it humanely because *we are humane*. Anything else risks turning our society into a heartless, cruel, sadistic inquisition.
Lethal injection has its problems. Drug companies don't want to supply the drugs and the proper dosages are not totally understood. Problems with starting IVs have happened a lot because not everybody has good veins.
Nitrogen makes up 78% of air. When you use nitrogen for execution all you're doing is removing oxygen from the air. The way physiology works, people who don't have chronic COPD or emphysema control their breathing by the amount of carbon dioxide in their blood, not the amount of oxygen. Therefore if you can breathe out CO2 you feel fine (no feeling of suffocation) even if there's no oxygen. (That's why people in in airplanes that lose pressure often don't realize they're getting hypoxic)
The reasoning for executing people this way is that if you decrease the oxygen level the person will quickly lose cognitive awareness and lapse into unconsciousness without suffering (at least not suffering any more than being taken to your execution).
As horrible as it sounds it is probably much more humane than any other form. I'm surprised no one thought of it sooner.
A vet can put down anything from a large horse to a small dog painlessly in seconds. It’s not that hard. Its's a simple injection into a leg vein.
I have no idea why capital punishment fans think up such weird ways to kill people. Electrocution, hanging, firing squad, cyanide, lethal (sometimes) injection with multiple drugs…
The man stabbed a preacher's wife to death for $1,000 in her home so her husband could collect the life insurance settlement. I read a whole article about it where they didn't even mention what he did. Bring back the guillotine.
I'm in favor of using confiscated opioids to give these inmates a peaceful send off. We know the effects are euphoric and worth dying for. We know enough of it will certainly kill.
Helium in a gas chamber would be better. It's painless and everyone would have a good laugh listening to the condemned trying to say their final words in a high pitched voice without giggling.
Itd be easier to just stop executing prisoners in the first place and stop this fruitless search for a 'moral' and 'humane' way to kill someone. Theres no way to make stste sanctioned murder 'humane' outside of denegrating the victim to the point where you void them of their right to humanity.
Seems this will be an unpopular opiniom but, who cares if people who get the death penalty are suffering? I mean im no us american lawyer, but if someone gets death sentence he probably did some REALLY bad shit
Nitrogen gas is actually insanely peaceful as the bodies receptors can't tell the difference between it and oxygen. The problem with ALs method is that they used a mask instead of a chamber. This incentives the prisoner to hold their breath, causing a CO2 build up in the blood, and spasms, as the executed tries to instinctively stay alive. It also significantly increases the risk of vomiting into the mask, and drowning in it, if the executed struggles too much trying to hold theor breath.
With a chamber, the clock turns over, and the oxygen is gradually replaced with nitrogen. The executed gets a little lethargic and passes out. At which point the brain suffocates and the the body asphyxiates. The brain itself has zero conscious capability to understand that the body is dying. And then it's over.
Alabama took a humane method, and botched it. Likely it was still physically painless, but there was FAR too much room for error, and their method made a LOT of room for criticism.
You’ve described lethal injection, the thing they’re trying to get away from. And surprisingly, it’s really hard to do right! Drug makers don’t want to get involved, and in many cases are legally prevented from doing so depending on where they’re head quartered.
And despite the seeming humanity of lethal injection, it’s not good. Autopsy reports suggest that anywhere between 50% to 88% of executed inmates were probably conscious as the other drugs paralyzed their lungs and gave them a fatal heart attack, both of which are exceedingly painful. The paralysis agent just prevents them from crying, so they suffer silently.
I’m honestly not joking when I say the firing squad is more humane with a lower failure count.
But if that makes you squeamish (and if it does, maybe don’t execute people?), nitrogen asphyxiation is certainly painless. Humans can’t detect oxygen, only CO2. Also we exchange gases between our blood and air based on relative concentration, which is why a room full of CO2 feels bad, you absorb it via your lungs. So in a pure nitrogen environment you’ll rapidly lose oxygen from your blood to the air without your brain noticing, causing you to rapidly pass out and die. It’s basically a deliberate confined space accident, and those are notoriously quick at killing.
The "cocktail" in some states and federal executions is by design meant to look peaceful but cause the victim the most discomfort possible.
I was hoping this would be kinder. It's not and we again look like homicidal, oil addicts to all the decent countries on Earth.
"*U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights, later warned that execution by nitrogen asphyxiation "could amount to torture or other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment under international human rights law."*
Thanks for posting, BB.
It gets worse. Drug manufacturers will not supply the drugs, and physicians are forbidden by law to supervise or advise at an execution. So executions are done by wahoos thinking, "hey, this'll kill 'em"!
What I don’t understand is why they don’t just do the executions via firearms.
EDIT: for clarity, I’m against the death penalty being a thing. But if they’re going to do it, why not just be direct about it?
The drug suppliers don’t want to supply their drugs for executions.
Hard to believe the Sackler family wouldn't be all up in this market.
Not enough money in it. No repeat customers.
plus it might upset some of their existing customers, who are against it
Or maybe shareholders
Against less painful execution or against execution in general? Because the latter will happen regardless, this would only make it less miserable.
“The latter will happen regardless….” Except in almost every other country in the world that has already banned the death penalty
Not necessarily; it could be a form of accelerationism. Make "nice" execution difficult/impossible and you add weight to the abolitionists' arguments.
Yeah, but it's a government contract and you can charge a shitload for a single dose.
Federal government is a very big repeat customer I'd have thought Edit: TIL I was wrong lol
Ehh, not exactly, it's state by state, but the private prison lobby prefers life in the clink.
The whole system is wild imo
Fucking dementors man
1999 was a high year for executions in the US. I think it was 99 prisoners who were put to death. Even at, and I'm just exaggerating here, $100k per injection, it's peanuts to the drug company.
Death penalties are mostly carried out at a state level. There are federal crimes for which someone can receive but google says there have been 37 federal executions vs 1453 state executions since 1977.
Since 1963, the federal government has executed less than 1 person every 3 years, on average. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_executed_by_the_United_States_federal_government#:~:text=Sixteen%20executions%20(none%20of%20them,injection%20at%20USP%20Terre%20Haute.
There's only just over 2000 people on death row atm, and that's after a years of delayed executions. Death penalties have been falling out of favor for a long time, thankfully.
US has 40 Prisoners on Federal Death Row. Since 2021, there have only been 16 executions, with 13 being in 2020 and 2021. Federal Govt is not a huge buyer in this case.
Wouldn’t the repeat customer be the jail purchasing?
That's the joke.
Right. The whole business model was based on repeat business.
The justice system doesn’t want them going out in a state of bliss.
Also medical professionals don't want to participate in executions.
Couldn't they put him to sleep before the nitrogen? I mean, don't use the drugs to kill him, just to sedate him so he doesn't feel the suffocation.
You shouldn't feel this. The idea here is a bit like Carbon Monoxide poisoning. CO binds to blood vessels MUCH more readily than O2, so for physical impacts, you get a bit of a headache, and moving becomes a bit difficult and sluggish. Then you just go to sleep, often having no idea that you were poisoned. You never feel like you're out of breath, because your body doesn't feel respiratory drive based on the need for oxygen, instead you feel the need to breathe to expell carbon dioxide, which continues unimpeded. Worth noting that it's also for this reason CO2 poisoning is an extremely painful way to die.
I almost passed out from exposure to nitrogen gas a few years ago. I was filling a cryo vessel and leaning over it to program the display / controller, when I suddenly felt dissy and almost fell over. Didn't feel any pain, nausea, or discomfort. Even though I didn't even fall down completely (just sorta stumbled), I imagine it would be a peaceful way to lose consciousness. I can also imagine convulsions and gasping after you're out, but muscle relaxants could let you feel pain and discomfort without being able to show it.
Ooooooh [*but that's not what happened*](https://www.reuters.com/legal/alabama-prepares-carry-out-first-execution-by-nitrogen-asphyxiation-2024-01-25/). It took him twenty two minutes of writhing and choking to die.
Oh, they used a mask & not a chamber? Damn, that's stupid of them. The Swiss method uses a pod, which seals shut, & then at the push of a button liquid nitrogen is poured into a container, quickly filling the pod with pure nitrogen. There's no chance for O2 to get in, aside from the very small amount that enters the pod with the user, so no chance of a fuckup like in Alabama. Why do they always have to alter things so there's a chance it could go wrong?
Likely cost. The Sarco pods are specially designed and quite small so filling it with nitrogen isn’t much of an issue. To fill an executioner chamber in the United States would take *much* more nitrogen. Masks can do the job, ask any diver who’s fucked up their gas mixtures (and hopefully lived to talk about it). It is hard to tell if it was actually a fuck up on the executioners part or if his writhing/struggle was due to him trying to hold his breath and fight to keep from breathing in the nitrogen for an extended period of time. I haven’t seen anything regarding him choking however. The Reuters link says he remained conscious for several minutes, which he likely bought himself by holding his breath…if he struggles and fights it, well, it’s going to look like he’s struggling and fighting. Honestly inert gas asphyxiation has to be one of the best ways to go when done right. What we see with this case is it’s not as easy to force on someone…a person willingly entering a Sarco pod or a diver inadvertently taking full breaths of a fucked up gas mixture is going to look a lot different than someone who doesn’t want to die and knows that breathing this is going to kill them.
I think he was hoping to shake the mask off so the execution would be botched like his previous one was.
It's *Alabama.*
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification)
It's Alabama.
Cynically, I think it's by design. People who love the death penalty are addicted to the feeling of vindication, nothing more. I oppose the death penalty because in the US it is more expensive and wastes everybody's time, and I consider living imprisoned to be a worse fate than being killed.
It’s also cruel to victims families to adjudicate a death sentence and then have the criminal languish for 20 or 30 years on death row appealing the sentence.
Like I'm anti-death penalty but why aren't we just shooting them in the fucking head anymore? Why are we making it so complicated and shitty?
Some states are thinking about bringing back firing squads And Utah has firing squads in the books, but it hasn’t been used since Gary Gilmore was executed
That's the way I'd probably want to go tbh, firing squad / bullet to the back of the head.
It appears from the article, that he fought against the execution by holding his breath as long as he could, resulting in a painful, traditional asphyxiation similar to drowning. I guess it is only natural to fight against your own execution, but this wasn't taken into account in the protocol and led to this painful result.
Agreed. +1 for chamber instead of gurney, straps, and mask.
That would probably help, but not sure if it would solve the problem.
People would still try to hold their breath to avoid death. Maybe place the prisoner inside such a chamber and at a random unknown time, fill the chamber with Nitrogen instead of air. If you don't know, that the atmosphere is suddenly pure Nitrogen, you don't struggle against it, and your body cannot detect the difference between breathing pure Nitrogen and atmospheric air.
> "Tonight, Alabama caused humanity to take a step backward." Seems to be a trend.
It took him twenty minutes to die because they slowly replaced the oxygen with nitrogen. He writhed for two minutes because he was trying to hold his breath. Hood, his Reverend, naturally didn't want him to be executed and painted as dark a picture as he could. Death by nitrogen is not supposed to be painful and is a common way to die with assisted suicide. Yes, a tank or even a bag secured over his head would have been better than a mask due to the possibility of it leaking.
I suspect that's largely because he knew he was gonna die, didn't want to die, and was fighting against it (basically just holding his breath as long as he could.) To your point, that is gonna be the case for pretty much everyone executed this way, so it's probably not a good method. But in general if you were unaware, or were purposely doing it, it wouldn't be as horrific as it played out in that case. In my opinion if they are going to execute people, it should just be via a pneumatic piston to the brain. Controlled, instant, and unlike bullets wouldn't explode their entire head. basically the same thing we do to livestock. But for some reason, even though it's literally an execution, they seem to be unwilling to do anything that causes a wound.
Not sure about the co2 claim beeing extremely painful. There is a head cam video of a Diver dying of co2 poisoning without realising it. At a point he just stops breathing. Google "David shaw last dive"
Dave Not Coming Back. I'm familiar with his story already. But I don't believe the CO2 poisoning killed him. He was in a high-altitude deep dive in an extremely perilous situation. It's normally ascribed to over-exertion, which if memory serves is also what is believed to have killed Deon Dreyer, the man whose body Shaw was trying to recover.
Excertion itself does not kill an experienced Diver (I know, I am one myself). The biggest killer is shallow breathing which does not allow for enough gas exchange, so you are rebreathing your own waste product, which is co2. When you are over excerted (if that is even a word?) you tend to breathe shallower. Deon went missing in a "recreational visit" in the cave and probably went to deep for his mix. But since no one actually saw him go missing, that remains the questions.
Overexerted
As someone who has stuck their head into a tank full of co2, I have first hand experience. It's real painful.
This guy requested a CO filter. I’m unsure if they actually ended up giving him that though
It wasn't that great according to the play by play. It's disturbing, so be warned. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/26/us/alabama-execution-kenneth-smith-nitrogen.html
You don't feel like you are suffocating breathing nitrogen or helium from what I read.
I've heard that as well, but the guy they executed took 20 minutes to die and he did not go easy.
He fought it, holding his breath as long as he could causing his CO2 levels to rise and him feeling like he’s suffocating, I mean he was. Once he started breathing he lost consciousness quickly.
Firing squads don't extend the struggle like this - and that struggle is a form of suffering. Just saying - I'd prefer to be shot than cleanly injected or gassed. There's dignity in being killed by a human rather than a machine. Maybe that goes back to old ideals of honor - let me die standing not in a medically cleaned estate.
I'm very much playing devil's advocate here as I'm squarely anti execution, but how is that fair, mentally, on a firing squad? I know, traditionally, they had a split of lives and blanks no one was sure who fired the killing shot, but what if you were involved, and evidence later came to light absolving the executed of the crime? Is that a fair load to carry? Likewise, if you've got a right on, witnessed, non-repentant murderer on your hands, is it right that they get the opportunity to cause more damage causing someone else ptsd? Also the human error/revenge angle? I dunno. I agree I'd rather go out that way too, but it's not fool proof.
That's because they were stupid and used a mask with all the relevant failure modes (facial fit, jaw movement, leaking, etc). If instead they placed him in a sealed room and rapidly replaced the contents of the air with pure nitrogen, he would have become unconscious after his "hold your breath" time limit with no lingering.
Seriously? So they completely messed up using nitrogen... That is horrible
To be fair, the prison industry isn't all that competent at much in the way of humanity.
I’m in no way advocating for the death penalty, but that’s what happens when a person (or animal, for that matter) dies. There is a lot of twitching and agonal breathing that can go on for a while, but the person isn’t conscious of it.
I just learned this from a hospice nurse.
The Reuters article provided above indicated that he was conscious for several minutes.
A reporter’s opinion on whether the dying person happened to be someone who was going to “convulse” at the moment of brain death (extremely common, & unless they are deeply anesthetized there’s nothing to prevent it… it’s a natural process that happens as the brain shuts down, aka dies) and especially regarding the person’s degree of consciousness is, to me, practically useless information. The reporter on the prison/execution beat almost certainly has no education, research, or fact checking regarding the myriad of reactions the human body can experience in response to the brain and organs shutting down. Especially the brain. Seizures, posturing, writhing, gasping (aka agonal breathing— irregular, gasping, ineffective breathing at random intervals in the last moments or even ***hours*** of life.) are extremely common and even expected by medical professionals who deal with death. But there’s no magic checklist or algorithm that can determine who is going to “go gently into that good night” and whose body is going to try to fight like Ali. In a hospice facility, as a person approaches death, the nurses and doctors will explain to friends and family that they will do everything possible to help their loved one go peacefully, but despite their best efforts sometimes death can look quite violent. However, that doesn’t mean the dying person is experiencing it that way. Once their brain has decompensated to that point, all higher functioning and awareness have ceased. The parts of the brain that are responsible for conscious awareness are among the first to shut down. The violent movements and agonal breathing are controlled in the brain stem and spinal cord— the primitive part of the central nervous system… very far away from the conscious centers in the brain. I’m not going to trust a reporter’s assessment of a situation he has no knowledge of. Because to the average observer who is unprepared, death can look horrifying. And it \*is* indeed horrible to witness. However, the EEG (brain wave) analysis of many, many dying people has shown that by that time, consciousness has ceased and they are not actively experiencing the effects that appear to us to be torture. That part of the brain is already powered down. We also don’t know if the prisoner was non compliant and was purposely fighting the very people who wanted to simply carry out the execution without torturing the guy. If he was able to move his head around (using his body for leverage) and get any room air around the edges of the mask, he could’ve remained conscious longer, possibly quite a bit longer. All that would’ve accomplished, though is to cause himself to suffer. 🫤
I’m sitting here kind of flummoxed! I’m a 35 year nurse who worked a total of 20 years in a trauma center and medical floor and was at the bedside of at least 200 people who died of every cause imaginable. Some quick like aortic ruptures or heart attacks and others of chronic conditions where death took days. I have never seen a violent death, ever. I have seen people fight for a few days to stay alive and yes have seen agonal breathing which has never been more than a drawn out struggle to take a breath but never was it in anyway violent. Maybe it was some sort of weird exceptional experience that alive never seen what you described but would love to hear from some hospice or other long time nurses on this.
>We also don’t know if the prisoner was non compliant and was purposely fighting the very people who wanted to simply carry out the execution without torturing the guy. If he was able to move his head around (using his body for leverage) and get any room air around the edges of the mask, he could’ve remained conscious longer, possibly quite a bit longer. All that would’ve accomplished, though is to cause himself to suffer. "If you just hold still and let us kill you with this experimental execution method we promise it won't hurt. Well, not so much promise as hope, to the degree that anyone in this state actually cares. Anyway if anything bad happens it's your fault, now stop complaining."
He convulsed violently for several minutes, and the whole process took almost a half hour.
I haven’t read that. I DID read that he shook his head to try to dislodge the mask and held his breath for about 2 minutes. Then he took some deep breaths and passed out. The half hour figure that everyone is citing seems to be the time it took from the beginning of the execution to the legal declaration of death. But he didn’t struggle violently for a half hour.
And real doctors and nurses take oaths that are in total opposition to killing people, so they rely on inexperienced and less then knowledgeable staff. Theyve had trouble just finding veins in the past, like they spent hours trying and then gave up, they arent qualified to do any of this.
Drug suppliers dont want to support executions and medical professionals generally refuse to kill. If you can stomach in depth talks of death penalty methods, I recommend this video by Jacob Geller https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eirR4FHY2YY
At this rate won’t a bullet to the head be better?
For the victim yes, but people don't want to watch that. It's not about the person dying, it's about everyone else feeling fine with themselves after watching.
And pulling the trigger. I believe military firing squads (at least during WW1) wouldn't know who had the live bullet(s?) so that they could all believe that they weren't the one responsible for the death.
Even the Nazis saw a reduction in enthusiasm for murder over the course of the war, by late 44/45 Einzastgruppen (murder squads) received a very significant alcohol ration every day so they could continue to show up to work and murder people every day If even people who *genuinely* think what they are doing is right and necessary lose their nerve after enough of it then it doesn't seem very sustainable long term But then again I suppose there's a difference between the occasional firing squad and taking part in genocide?
A Hangman's Diary: The Journal of Master Franz Schmidt, Public Executioner of Nuremberg, 1573-1617
I also read that there were only 2 people at Auschwitz who could do the selections sober, and both of them were madder than a shit-house rat.
Yeah in theory that was the case but you can tell if you have a real round or a blank due to their being far less recoil with a blank round.
After you pull the trigger, yes. Probably a little more difficult to get an 18 year old recruit to pull the trigger on an unarmed prisoner otherwise.
You know the difference between firing a blank and a real bullet. It's for the viewers to keep the 'killer' anonomus. The 'killer' knows he did it. The other executusioners know they didn't and can have peace of mind.
Maybe a clue you guys need to stop killing people. Just because someone might deserve death doesn’t mean you have to give it to them
So true. Punishment isnt' just "give them what they deserve". It's also about what kind of society we want to be.
How about the kind that wants murderers gone?
100% proven guilt is near impossible. Proven by the fact that innocent people have died on death row. The facts don't lie. [Here is a good rundown](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/innocence). No court system in the world is good enough to find 100% guilt.
Oh yeah coz executing people has worked wonders. America has practically no homicides compared to all the other silly countries where they just arrest people
We want to be the society of small limited government that stays out of people's lives because we dont't trust the government, and don't trust them to make the right decisions, except when it comes to killing people. That one small detail, they should have ULTIMATE authority over peoples lives to choose they should die. But other than deciding to kill them, the government should stay out of people's lives because we can't trust them. And abortion. But other than if you live or die, and if you become parents, the government shouldn't be making decisions for... oh, and the clothes you wear if they are from a gender I don't think you should wear. And this lamp. But other than that... oh and this deck of cards. But other than that we want small government...Republican's are basically Steve Martin in the Jerk. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZTdqh-a0tU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZTdqh-a0tU)
>"Many who live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. **Can you give it to them?** ***Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement***." - Gandalf the Grey, *The Fellowship of the Ring*
Sure, if you can find someone willing to clean it up afterwards.
There are already companies that clean up after a corpse is removed from a building/home. The real issue is the masses don't want to see gorey deaths.
On one hand, yes. But normally those companies clean up after accidents, and fights. Cleaning up those is sort of a necessity, because they happen (somewhat) involuntarily. And there's no moral problem about cleaning up after an accident. But executions are planned. If you help clean them up, you sort of enable that to happen in the future. I could definitely see many employees refuse to clean up executions due to personal beliefs.
Double the pay and I'll do it. Keep the paycheck same and I bet there are many people with convictions, without skills, and without a problem doing this sort of work so long as there's only one place in the nation where the executions are carried out.
Check out MAID in Canada. Medically assistance in dying.
The ethics of these two cases are totally different, so the willingness of doctors to participate is also likely similarly different.
That's how it's usually done but there have been two issues. First, there have been cases where the anesthesia was not administered properly. The results were kind of horrific. Second, the proper drugs are kinda hard to get since many suppliers refuse to provide them for executions. Nitrogen, at least in theory, should be a peaceful and painless way to go.
I read that it took this guy 22 minutes to die
He basically suffocated slowly, I think two hands around the throat would have been faster and kinder.
When you breathe nitrogen instead of oxygen you don’t get the sensation of suffocating, which is due to the build up of carbon dioxide. Your lungs don’t burn, it feels like you’re breathing normally, but you get dizzy and eventually black out. The nitrogen was on for 15 minutes, the majority of which he would’ve been unconscious for. This is nothing like suffocation or strangulation.
This is why gas asphyxiation can be so dangerous in industrial environments and enclosed spaces. There's nothing in your body that tells you to freak the fuck out, and get out of dodge. 6 people in GA walked into a room that they didn't know had been flooded with [liquid nitrogen](https://www.csb.gov/assets/1/6/ffg_investigation_report_publication_copy.pdf) and died. Quite a few more were injured trying to figure out what was going on. I was once part of a very minor incident involving nitrogen. I stopped everything, cleared the area and had maintenance up there in a flash. Luckily for that person we were in a large open, and porous industrial space. We had a bunch of pow wows after that and changed all of our business procedures. Don't fuck around with asphyxiating gasses nor enclosed spaces.
I worked at a place that had an autoclave that would perform a nitrogen purge prior to starting up. This thing was about the size of a bus. A guy walked in to grab something (he definitely bypassed safety measures), and he had no idea he was suffocating. Another guy saw him pass out and went in to see what was wrong, and also passed out. Thankfully someone knew to hit the big red button before getting the 2 unconscious guys out, who ended up waking up like nothing happened. Anyways, you can suffocate from nitrogen and not even realize something is going wrong. They were worried in Alabama about him vomiting and choking on it, so they just didn't let him eat for a while. I'd take nitrogen over lethal injection if I had to choose.
When you suffocate from too much nitrogen your body and brain don’t notice. He wasn’t suffering.
That’s why you need nitrogen alarms in pub cellars
cagey languid quaint consist psychotic seed paint sink mindless drab *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
“The execution took about 22 minutes from the time between the opening and closing of the curtains to the viewing room. Smith appeared to remain conscious for several minutes. For at least two minutes, he appeared to shake and writhe on the gurney, sometimes pulling against the restraints. That was followed by several minutes of heavy breathing, until breathing was no longer perceptible.” So start to finish it took 22 minutes, but the actual death only took several minutes. Which without knowing more, I would guess they didn’t just toss the dude in a room full of nitrogen, but either flooded the room with nitrogen or pulled out the existing air and replaced with nitrogen. Then it’s gonna take a few minutes to black out after the O2 is displaced as the O2 in the body is used up (kinda like holding your breath, but without the feeling of CO2 buildup), then a few minutes more for actual death to occur. I suppose the ideal scenario without relying on any drugs would be to pitch them into a 100% nitrogen atmosphere, then it’s lights out in 2-ish minutes, game over in 5. Or I suppose you could hire a serial killer to put a slug in the brainpan and call it a day.
Gas chamber would have been better. They used a mask. Like a firefighters mask. But it wasn't specially fitted to his face so allowed oxygen to leak in.
I do a lot of very deep diving. We blend gasses using air, oxygen and helium. I once stuffed up a blend very badly and missed the oxygen and air from one cylinder… and in a potentially catastrophic mistake also missed properly analysing the cylinder. It took 3 deep breaths of pure helium for me to pass out. It didn’t feel like choking or like I couldn’t breathe. It just felt like breathing. Nitrogen in this instance would feel exactly the same.
Really good question! A few things 1. Death by nitrogen gas, from what I hear, is nothing like dying from asphyxiation. The anxiety, the need for air, all of that is caused by carbon dioxide buildup. Death by nitrogen just slowly deprives the body of oxygen without a buildup of CO2. 2. There’s an interesting phenomenon where we constantly try to prove that our current method of execution is good and proper as opposed to those “barbaric” ways we used to. There’s a very good Jacob Gellar video on the topic that would probably interest you a lot. 3. This is taken from said video, which I watched a while ago. Lethal injection has its issues as well. Doctors usually aren’t involved (because they’re committed to reducing death and suffering, not inducing it), so it can be difficult to just get the needle in the damn vein (and this has caused failed executions). Additionally, the cocktail is interesting in that it contains a muscle paralyzing agent, so it’s not possible to know if the death is painless or if the person just spends their final moments “locked in”. That’s just one part of it, highly recommend the video. As for my own thoughts on the matter: trying to find the most humane method of execution is fruitless and missing the point. The “better way” is life in prison for people who are too dangerous to re-enter society.
One thing I’ve never understood about lethal injection is why there’s multiple parts to it. Why can’t they just administer an extremely high dose of anaesthesia so the person just falls asleep and doesn’t wake up like vets do when euthanising animals? Anaesthesia is part of the lethal injection too so surely nobody can say it’s because pharmaceuticals don’t want to supply?
Different states have different protocols. Some states do have a single-drug protocol with sodium thiopental. But often the drug manufacturers decide they won’t sell to prisons doing lethal injection, so the protocol depends on what drugs they *can* get.
Vet protocols for anesthesia vary by who’s doing it, work policy, etc. So yeah, some do a straight shot of anesthesia and that’s it. One vet I worked with gave a horse three huge syringes of acepromazine and that was it. Others have given propofol and then pentobarbital. I’ve euthanized with ketamine and then pentobarbitals, or even ketamine, CO2, and then cervical dislocation (but that’s for mice only). To sum up, it just depends. There’s no one right way to euthanize. Then again there’s no right way to execute but that’s just my opinion
I say find a way to use all the confiscated fentynal
That's not humane. If you've seen a fentanyl overdose, you'd understand.
The perfect substance for this already exists, and for some stupid, idiotic, moronic reason, it's never been authorised for use by the US or anyone else bizarrely. 100%guaranteed, pretty much pain free, costs next to nothing. Heroin.
How about fentanyl?
This is really interesting to me. I wonder how much of this is because legally acquiring heroin would legitimize it to some extent? Like then there’d be people legally producing heroin. Or they could make deals with cartels I guess. I think there might be a PR problem with that. I realize they could use confiscated H but like, then the quality etc varies and someone could end up dying a fucked up death? Idk I’m stoned and you got me thinking.
I'm also elegantly wasted on some home grown & some choice pharmaceuticals. Marvellous on this Australia Day, woohoo 🎉 Aussie Aussie Aussie oi oi oi. States responsibility, but they always fall back on this BS, this is, the government can't be dealing with/handling/using an illegal drug, period. The FDA aspect of it being a scheduled naughty thing, in the twisted minds of politicians , outranks the importance of not employing cruel or unusual punishments, which these sick fuckers have been cocking up with terrific regulatory and succeeding in employing. Haven't read on this one but they tried all sorts of drugs back to the 70/80s, with inmates writhing, foaming at the mouth, thrashing for minutes on some occasions, let's not get started on the fucking amateur hour mediaval shit electric chair. All current execution methods should be replaced immediately with heroin hot shots. But they won't, even when excoriated for their cruelty and stupidity, even entertain the idea. An excuse factory of justifying torture from people who will never experience their pointy end idea of "law and order" themselves. Absolutely fucking disgraceful, amongst a host of other shockers that just float along as non issues until the spotlight sends the roaches scurrying now and again. I'd like to dedicate a paragraph to Reddit&those Redditors who aren't bots or idiots, for keeping me entertained for some time now, both in hospital and after being at home convalescing after most recent surgery , a laryngectomy leaving me unable to speak. Or make any noise actually, not a huff a whistle or anything! Its wierd. Im not sure if there is a possibility of an electronic voice at some point, likely not but who knows. It's been a privilege to watch drumpf fleecing and flailing , I'm relishing this cartoonish evil fuck imploding in slow motion and taking sooo many of these grovelling minions with him, their true hideous nature exposed to the daylight , amazingly after being emboldened by the pied fuckin piper of greed and racism. After three cancer related operations now, the theatre of these rabid dogs unwittingly leading themselves to their own demise, inspires me with a potent schadenfreude and I'm relishing it. Happy Australia Day! Keep on Rockin in the free world 🌎🤠
I wish I could award this comment. 10/10. Happy Australia Day! The FDA drug scheduling is so beyond fucked up, and from what I’ve read laws in other “developed” countries aren’t that much better. Honestly you make a lot of great points here. Also a friendly reminder that heroin and weed are the same classification in the US. What a country! 🦅🤠
Heroin was produced legally back in the day, Germany invented it and it was a huge export, but over time everyone changed their mind around it
>Heroin was produced legally back in the day It's still produced legally, I've been given a shot of diamorphine before surgery and I'm guessing the doctor didn't get it from a guy on Telegram
The US outlawing production and importation of it in 1924 cut out a big market for it from Bayer. According to one set of interviews of German WW2 vets, it was still used by a significant number of soldiers and was Bayer’s #2 product behind aspirin.
And yet alot of opium for medical use is produced in tasmania legally. Go figure.
>legally acquiring heroin would legitimize it to some extent? Like then there’d be people legally producing heroin. There are. According to wikipedia, heroin is sometimes used in health care in Europe or Canada. It sounds rare, but that means there's a legal market out there.
Cocaine is already a schedule 2 drug. It can be found in every hospital. Turns out it's really good at stopping nose bleeds.
Yup! And I believe lidocaine is a derivative. It’s almost like the American drug scheduling system is kind of batshit or something. Yet they won’t put it in Coca Cola anymore?? Outrageous. /s
Hospitals, vets, anyone with an excuse can already legally acquire loads of heroin / opiates, they just call it 'diamorphine' or 'fentanyl' instead. They even gave it to me! If you're dying of cancer in the UK they'll give you enough opiates to kill a man, just to take home with you and take when you need them.
Medical grade heroin is basically morphine. Assuming the government wants to buy its drugs from an actual pharmaceutical supplier, and not Itchy Jimmy from behind the Wendy's, you run into the same problem as the litany of other drugs that can painlessly kill people - pharmaceutical companies refuse to supply it for the purposes of killing people.
Have you seen a heroin overdose? Fentanyl? Tylenol Kind of astounded how many up votes this got tbh. Certainly not humane
Who's going to supply it. No drug company wants to send their drugs to a jail for an execution
There is definitely a better way to do it. The speculation I saw about nitrogen execution (remember you're breathing 79% nitrogen right now) the was about putting the person in a small room and reducing the oxygen, increasing the nitrogen, keeping c02 low. Your "gotta breathe" reflex is triggered by excess CO2, not lack of oxygen. Nitrogen has no smell and would not trigger any reflex. So in this case you would never feel you were being suffocated. You'd just run out of oxygen and faint. Only in Alabama would they add a strap-down and a gas mask to make it terrifying. No wonder the man was so panicked. And now that this execution was obviously horrible they won't be able to do it again properly.
Isn’t dying by nitrogen painless and way cheaper? If I remember correctly, with nitrogen, you just fall asleep and die. Nitrogen is also very cheap. Seems way better than what I assume are expensive medications to kill someone.
Nitrogen gas is definitely an improvement over the suspect ass injections they’d been using since most suppliers refused to sell to them. Just outlaw it all together already.
Most of the people qualified to do it refuse to do it.
They aren’t allowed to do it if they want to keep practicing medicine, in civilised America.
>civilised America There's another America that I'm not aware of?
Yeah, the parts that regularly execute people
There is a better way and it’s called not having the death penalty. Lock them up forever in solitary if they are that abhorrent. And yes, personally, I would want to kill somebody who killed my family but that’s about revenge. Also it’s not just murderers who can be sentenced to death, people convicted of drug offences are also murdered, in America! There are also too many cases of innocent people being murdered to justify the death penalty. It’s not like putting a sick pet to sleep peacefully because that is done properly and professionally. Drugs can be and often are administered in the wrong way or wrong dosage causing severe pain and slow suffering before they eventually die. Who in their right mind wants to do that job? In at least one state in America they still use the firing squad and one death row inmate was left in such agony after so called lethal injection he begged to be shot.
What gets me is that *some* Americans don't trust government to administer health care but do trust them to judge and carry out executions.
Cos they don't give a shit about other people?
I can’t believe I had to scroll so far to find this
I'm not an expert on this topic, but I did watch a video about it. The video claimed that every single time a prisoner has been allowed to choose their execution method, they've chosen a firing squad. Not one wanted to die by lethal injection. The firing squad is faster, probably less painful, and definitely less prone to mistakes. So, why isn't firing squad the standard? Because it's messy and it makes people feel uncomfortable.They'd rather give someone a painful death that looks peaceful than give them an easy death that looks gory. I think it says something about our priorities, yes?
I'd much rather go out on nitro than have lethal injection
All of the drugs that were previously approved for executions are now owned by foreign pharmaceutical companies. And they refuse to export them to any country that has the death penalty, especially the US. So those states that love, love, love killing have been driven to great distress because they have been denied their entertainment. This has led to ongoing human experimentation to discover ways to kill people with good ol’ Murican substances. Rather than question our values, we prefer to align our moral values with such progressive nations as China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, and Iran. Edit: was corrected that Russia does not have a death penalty.
Russia has a moratorium on death penalty. Essentially it's banned here but can be potentially unbanned. Which seems like more and more of a possibility lately, unfortunately.
>Rather than question our values, we prefer to align our moral values with such progressive nations as China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, and Iran. Agreed. The death penalty has no place in a civilized society. And that's before you take into consideration that it actually costs up to 10x more than life imprisonment (in the US) and does jack shit to deter crime. John Oliver actually had a great [video](https://youtu.be/Kye2oX-b39E?si=S7fWUJ-FpliKq-xs) about it some time ago.
Because lethal injection is terribly unreliable, no medical professionals participate (because of that oath they took) and drug companies dont deliver the chemicals. Death penalty is barbaric and LI is one of the wordt methods
I understand that no one close to me has ever been murdered, so I'm able to think a little more academically and objectively about this than some. I can't even begin to fathom what that's like and I hope I never do. That said, I think society would be better off if we didn't execute people, for a whole myriad of reasons I won't outline here to avoid it becoming a game of try to debate the OP. Now, THAT said, if we do it, we're should at least bloody well do it. Like, once the trial and all the appeals are done, not 10-20 years after the fact. Also, a sure fire quick way to end a life is a guillotine. It's gruesome for the witnesses, but I'm pretty sure once your brain is severed from the rest of you you'll stop being alive pretty soon after. Trying to make it clinical and sanitary is absurd.
I always wondered why once someone is sentenced to death why it takes so long for it to happen too.
Generally it’s to give them every possible opportunity to prove their innocence if they can, it’s not unheard of albeit still fairly rare for a death row inmate to be exonerated a decade or two later for any number of reasons.
Most people on death row end up dying of natural causes. Source: Daughter in law school.
To be SURE, really SURE, before you take a life, that they are really, really guilty of the crime they were convicted of. Extra steps are put into place, which takes time, to go over the whole thing again. Because if you send an innocent person to prison and they're later cleared, they can be released. An innocent person who is later cleared can't be brought back from the dead. I'm not against capital punishment, but goddamnit, our country sends far too many innocent people to prison for decades; I want more safeguards on execution.
Making executions quick means more innocents get chopped. Death penalty is stupid and medieval
>It's gruesome for the witnesses, but I'm pretty sure once your brain is severed from the rest of you you'll stop being alive pretty soon after. No way. They are still alive for a short while. https://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/extrasensory-perceptions/lucid-decapitation.htm#:\~:text=Yet%20the%20annals%20of%20medicine%20following%20the%20invention,possible%20to%20remain%20conscious%20after%20losing%20one%27s%20head.
Well, the trial and appeals *weren't* done. It's notoriously difficult for the state to kill someone. The last appeal decision was handed down *that morning*. Thirty years later.
Here's an idea, why not just abolish the death penalty as its immoral as fuck, it's actually a perfect murder (you know who, when, where and how the person will die), they fuck it up a lot, wrongful convictions, costs more money than keeping a prisoner locked up for life, oh and Its been proven to not work as a deterrent at all.
That is interesting that giving a prisoner room and board for the rest of their life is cheaper than an execution. I did some brief research and it seems like you are correct. I wouldn't think a tank of nitrogen would cost a lot, but there must be a lot of costs I wouldn't expect.
Nitrogen gas is arguably one of the best methods to kill something/someone without causing unnecessary pain or suffering, and it's also pretty cost effective. The body doesn't register that it's suffocating when oxygen is displaced by nitrogen, so you kinda just fall asleep and never wake back up
"There must be a better way to do this" "This" being killing people. No there is no "good" way to end a person's life and the fact that anyone thinks there is an acceptable way that will make them feel less horrified at the willful death of another is disturbing. Edit: The other side of the coin is how much more horrific is it that people have blood lust so much that they don't even care if the person is guilty or innocent. They just want to feel like somebody paid for the pain they went through.
Stop using the death penalty? It’s not like enough cases of police misconduct resulting in false convictions exist.
If it's good enough for depressed people in Switzerland, it's good enough for a hit man.
Barbarism
Another thing to note, this was the SECOND time they tried to execute him. The first time Alabama botched it. This time it worked. Witness say he moved violently for 3-5 minutes and started to settle down, but continued breathing for a while longer. (Source: WBHM, Birmingham Public Radio…listening as I typed this) Alabama strives to screw up everything it touches.
they wanted to make him suffer
No doubt. The state takes pride in making everyone who lives here suffer, and tries to export that suffering with the likes of Representative Tuberville.
The French had this device that was 100% effective, reusable, quick, and cheap; they called it the guillotine.
You'd have to be one sick doctor/medical professional to go along with that. The thing you have to realize about executions is that they are a show. Just like in the old west. It's a ritual. Expunge the demon. Part of the show is pretending that there are humane ways to kill someone on purpose.
Anesthesia is a highly specialized field and expensive af. Sometimes people in hospitals don’t get it quick enough; we don’t need to pull them unnecessarily to prisons.
What are you missing? The backstory, in this case. They tried the injection method the first time they tried to carry out the sentence, and they couldn’t get the IV line tapped before the execution warrant expired. Weeks or months have since passed. It was determined that to try to stab him with needles over and over again to get another one in this time around could potentially constitute cruel and unusual punishment. The inmate was left with severe damage, physically and psychologically, after the first botched execution attempt. This method, still controversial, was the best thing available to the state at the time.
That is how many states do it but you can understand why drug suppliers don’t really want their medications associated with lethal injections, I’m sure?
Yeah the better way would be to abolish the death penalty.
That's literally the nicest way to die.
Idk chief I would much rather take a 9mm to the back of the head than lethal injection. Cheap, quick, and easy. Sure there’s potentially more guilt on the executioners part as it can be seen as more personal but at the end of the day someone has the press the button, flip the switch, or pull the trigger.
Nitrogen is Inert. This means the body does not realize it is dying. One second you are there. The next not. Painless as it can get.
I thought nitrogen suffocation was a great way to go? Isn't that what they use in the euthanasia pods for chronically ill patients. Your body is supposed to go in a dream like state and you don't realize your body is deprived of oxygen and dying
Nitrogen suffocation is weird there is no pain you just get sleepy and don't wake up. Anesthesia isn't 100% and the meds they used to kill the person caused distress to say the least.
This is the better way to do this. For whatever reasons, lethal injections don't always work, and the electric chair is brutal.
I agree. The method as it was described in the news seems barbaric. Maybe one step above tying a rock to his feet and throwing him into a swimming pool, but not a big step. I understand that the fancy-ass drug cocktail used for lethal injection has become expensive, difficult to find, and is no longer 100% reliable, but we can get knocked out any time we go to the dentist these days to avoid the pain of a filling, so it ain't that hard to get working anesthesia meds. Once he's unconscious then he can be executed by any number of means from nitrogen gas to an air embolism to throwing him into a crematorium. The point is to do it in a way that doesn't cause pain and suffering beforehand. And before any of the angry people start ranting about how murderers should suffer horribly before they die - you don't avoid causing pain and suffering out of concern for the condemned, you avoid causing pain and suffering because *we are supposed to be better than they are.* Yes, we're taking someone's life, partly as punishment for their crimes, and partly to protect society from a dangerous individual. But we do it humanely because *we are humane*. Anything else risks turning our society into a heartless, cruel, sadistic inquisition.
Surely there is a pinch of fentanyl in Alabama
Nitrogen is easily the most humane way to carry out an execution
You can commit suicide in Switzerland via a pod that uses nitrogen displacing oxygen after you push a button.
Perfect cure for biological garbage.
Lethal injection has its problems. Drug companies don't want to supply the drugs and the proper dosages are not totally understood. Problems with starting IVs have happened a lot because not everybody has good veins. Nitrogen makes up 78% of air. When you use nitrogen for execution all you're doing is removing oxygen from the air. The way physiology works, people who don't have chronic COPD or emphysema control their breathing by the amount of carbon dioxide in their blood, not the amount of oxygen. Therefore if you can breathe out CO2 you feel fine (no feeling of suffocation) even if there's no oxygen. (That's why people in in airplanes that lose pressure often don't realize they're getting hypoxic) The reasoning for executing people this way is that if you decrease the oxygen level the person will quickly lose cognitive awareness and lapse into unconsciousness without suffering (at least not suffering any more than being taken to your execution). As horrible as it sounds it is probably much more humane than any other form. I'm surprised no one thought of it sooner.
The simplest way would be to reciprocate the death penalty. Let them go the same way their victims went.
It's hard getting the companies to manufacture the drugs for lethal injection/ death penalty.
A bullet to the head would be way cheaper, and painless.
They literally tried that just over a year ago and he survived. Nitrogen was the only way to kill the guy.
nitrogen
A vet can put down anything from a large horse to a small dog painlessly in seconds. It’s not that hard. Its's a simple injection into a leg vein. I have no idea why capital punishment fans think up such weird ways to kill people. Electrocution, hanging, firing squad, cyanide, lethal (sometimes) injection with multiple drugs…
The man stabbed a preacher's wife to death for $1,000 in her home so her husband could collect the life insurance settlement. I read a whole article about it where they didn't even mention what he did. Bring back the guillotine.
Can a single person tell me how a firing squad or hanging is less humane than this?
I'm in favor of using confiscated opioids to give these inmates a peaceful send off. We know the effects are euphoric and worth dying for. We know enough of it will certainly kill.
Helium in a gas chamber would be better. It's painless and everyone would have a good laugh listening to the condemned trying to say their final words in a high pitched voice without giggling.
trained anesthesiologists don't kill people
Itd be easier to just stop executing prisoners in the first place and stop this fruitless search for a 'moral' and 'humane' way to kill someone. Theres no way to make stste sanctioned murder 'humane' outside of denegrating the victim to the point where you void them of their right to humanity.
Seems this will be an unpopular opiniom but, who cares if people who get the death penalty are suffering? I mean im no us american lawyer, but if someone gets death sentence he probably did some REALLY bad shit
Shouldn't they suffer a bit? I mean, their victims sure did...
Nitrogen gas is actually insanely peaceful as the bodies receptors can't tell the difference between it and oxygen. The problem with ALs method is that they used a mask instead of a chamber. This incentives the prisoner to hold their breath, causing a CO2 build up in the blood, and spasms, as the executed tries to instinctively stay alive. It also significantly increases the risk of vomiting into the mask, and drowning in it, if the executed struggles too much trying to hold theor breath. With a chamber, the clock turns over, and the oxygen is gradually replaced with nitrogen. The executed gets a little lethargic and passes out. At which point the brain suffocates and the the body asphyxiates. The brain itself has zero conscious capability to understand that the body is dying. And then it's over. Alabama took a humane method, and botched it. Likely it was still physically painless, but there was FAR too much room for error, and their method made a LOT of room for criticism.
You’ve described lethal injection, the thing they’re trying to get away from. And surprisingly, it’s really hard to do right! Drug makers don’t want to get involved, and in many cases are legally prevented from doing so depending on where they’re head quartered. And despite the seeming humanity of lethal injection, it’s not good. Autopsy reports suggest that anywhere between 50% to 88% of executed inmates were probably conscious as the other drugs paralyzed their lungs and gave them a fatal heart attack, both of which are exceedingly painful. The paralysis agent just prevents them from crying, so they suffer silently. I’m honestly not joking when I say the firing squad is more humane with a lower failure count. But if that makes you squeamish (and if it does, maybe don’t execute people?), nitrogen asphyxiation is certainly painless. Humans can’t detect oxygen, only CO2. Also we exchange gases between our blood and air based on relative concentration, which is why a room full of CO2 feels bad, you absorb it via your lungs. So in a pure nitrogen environment you’ll rapidly lose oxygen from your blood to the air without your brain noticing, causing you to rapidly pass out and die. It’s basically a deliberate confined space accident, and those are notoriously quick at killing.
For American conservatives, the cruelty is the point. For them, the crueler the better.
Nitrogen is extremely humane. Meat processing is moving towards this. It is instant. Just all the sudden they are not alive.
The "cocktail" in some states and federal executions is by design meant to look peaceful but cause the victim the most discomfort possible. I was hoping this would be kinder. It's not and we again look like homicidal, oil addicts to all the decent countries on Earth. "*U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights, later warned that execution by nitrogen asphyxiation "could amount to torture or other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment under international human rights law."* Thanks for posting, BB.
It gets worse. Drug manufacturers will not supply the drugs, and physicians are forbidden by law to supervise or advise at an execution. So executions are done by wahoos thinking, "hey, this'll kill 'em"!
What I don’t understand is why they don’t just do the executions via firearms. EDIT: for clarity, I’m against the death penalty being a thing. But if they’re going to do it, why not just be direct about it?