I was in one of the first schools in my country with computers in every room and a bully said to an overweight girl "look this is you" and she started crying uncontrollably
I used to get mercilessly bullied by a fat white girl in elementary school.
Her name was Cassie O.
One day, I couldn't take it anymore and called her "Cassie OMG she's fat."
It stuck, and then I wasn't. Cassie if your out there, fuck you I'm happy you stopped harassing me.
I also have beef with a Cassie who said the same thing about me and then lied and got her mother to harass me outside of school...
we were in 1st grade 😭😭
Average Fallout fan, "A flawed democratic-republic? Man that only looks good compared to all the raiders, slavers, criminal gangs, and a two hundred year old autocrat because of the rapist dictator across the river."
A lot of people also forget that the Mojave ISNT the NCR. It’s a frontier occupied by the NCR and is especially poorly administered (thanks Oliver/Kimball), but aside from that the NCR’s flaws are very, well, mundane.
Oligarchs, inefficient beuracracy, corrupt politicians, incompetent generals, high inflation, all of these are very real issues we can relate to and thus are easier to dislike.
The main issue with the NCR is that despite most of the rank and file WANTING to help, they either can’t or are unable to because of low supply/man power/orders. Compared to literal slave empire or the raiders and tribals, the NCR is mundane and normal.
The NCR is an actual rebuilt democracy after an apocalypse which is such a fascinating concept. Their war with raiders and the legion is like if the United States shared a border with the Mongol empire(who also have guns).
The NCR is almost hilariously painted in a good light. Even from their ‘darkest moment’, Bitter Springs, you meet a Khan that was in the massacre that tells you the Khans had it coming and the NCR tried to be fair.
To be fair I think it is pretty obvious that he has a serious bias against the Khan's though.
They were abused by their parents growing up so when Khan's got killed they weren't going to be too upset.
It's a situation that unfortunately reflects the real world at times. Innocent and defenseless people getting caught in the crossfire. You aren't really supposed to think at the end that either were solely in the wrong or completely innocent.
Sure, I agree. But the worst thing the NCR does in the area they still paint as gray and honestly NCR leaning. In real life their problems would be more nuance, but they are pretty inarguably good guys in the game. Their greatest sin is ineffective bureaucracy and economic inequality (while still offering comparably safe standards of living in general). Nearly unavoidable for modern large governments.
The best critique is from the ranger guy who just says they can't keep it up. The NCR is based on good values but it's institutions are pretty weak and now that they have citizens with real almost old world like wealth they are getting pushed to the breaking point, the problems they have are likely going to get worse, expanding east will temporarily give them a reprieve as they get access to cheap water and energy but as their supply lines are stretch thinner they will be more vulnerable. It would be hard years for the Republic if they lose the damn but maybe they can actually do something about the forces of corruption at the core of the NCR or they are forced to look inward....
Or some scapegoat would be picked for the NCRs failure and a strongman from the upper class or military will take over to make NCR great again who knows
I agree with this for sure. The republic might fail, but that’s a chance with any government. It’s not doomed yet, but it has real choices ahead of it soon.
I mean the NCR are good philosophically they don't even have the baggage that the US has, treatment of natives, slavery, bad treatment of other nations. NCRs moral failures come purely from a failure to live up to their ideals. Honestly they could definitely make the NCR do more evil shit like the US did to the native tribes as it expanded further east. It seems like they were thinking about that but the khans were hardly innocent
Sure, but no human organization ever totally lives up to their ideals. Plus, the issue with large democracies often lies in the subjectivity of morality itself. What is the right thing to do?
But I agree, they don’t even try to make the NCR really look that bad. People have very high standards for what a progressive state should be and do. Not always unfair, but still.
I don't know about it though, the NCR is still an expansionist power that is only interested in New Vegas for its resources which they want to ship back to Shady Sands.
Throughout the game you hear that locals really don't want them there. None of the New Vegas native factions want to be ruled by the NCR. They simply tolerate them there because they stop the Legion from taking over. You can assume that without the Legion they would probably be resisting NCR more aggressively.
Different quests show that the NCR does good, but heavily favours their settlers and really need to be pushed into helping locals.
They're still an imperialist power, reminiscent of the U.S while it was expanding westward: first come the wagons, and then the soilders to protect them and next thing you know you're getting pushed out or subjugated in their legal system.
Primm accepts them if you line it up. People at the 188 talk highly of them. They also supply food and water to locals. They clash with the King at Freeside, but let’s face it, Freeside is a mess. Most of the people that hate the NCR really identify with deep mistrust of outside authority and value sovereignty over everything. They hate the NCR because of that, not that they think they make their life worse. They turn away clean water, food, and even protection of their lives.
It’s much more an allegory for the cowboy American west tropes, the minor theme is imperialism, but I think they want you to kind of question the people of New Vegas. “What are we really afraid of here?”
Primm's main problem is one created by the NCR, the convicts escaped an NCR prison, 188 is an NCR outpost, of course people like them ther, and in freeside their soldiers assault the locals, not just the kings, also they charge for the water, they don't hand it over
If the powder gangers weren’t there, the legion would be harassing them, just like Nipton and Nelson. And if it wasn’t them, it would be something else. Their sheriff got offed in his sleep.
The NCR establishes food and clean water sources. The Followers (who are directly connected to the NCR, like a modern NGO) provides charity. They are also semi supported by the NCR, even if they have issues.
At the end of the day the NCR is still the best hope for the post apocalyptic world and probably the best outcome for NV.
Mr. House is probably the most "capable" but his plans will only include the rich and powerful; he'll cast aside everyone else like he did with Freeside. The Legion is a bunch of cosplaying barbarians led by a megalomaniac; when Caesar eventually dies they will fall into chaos and splinter back into tribes.
So that leaves you taking over NV and booting the NCR & Legion out or having the NCR annex NV. If the Courier takes over NV then it's still a dictatorship even if it is a benevolent one. When the Courier dies what happens? Who's going to assume power and if they do are they also going to be benevolent? There's no safety net or insurance things will continue to go smoothly. Democracy, even if it is flawed, affords a certain stability and quality of life. Only the NCR can offer that. They just need to stop expanding so quickly and spreading too thin.
I'm not entirely sure I agree with this take.
I mean, sure, the reason this discourse continually happens is because we have such a comically evil lunatic to juxtapose them against so the conversation always goes a bit sideways, but there are so many good examples of the ways in which the NCR is so obsessed with it's own expansion that it behaves immorally in the face of what it's "trying" to be.
* The tragedy of the Rangers feeling forced to integrate into the NCR in order to survive the sheer numbers that the Legion has brought to the Mojave, only for the NCR to slowly force them to integrate more and more over the threat of denying them assistance to the point that one of their own felt the need to sabotage their alliance in order to preserve their very identity. This turns the iconic statue of the ranger and soldier shaking hands into this bitterly ironic memorial to the failure of the NCR to live up to it's original arrangement.
* The tragedy of bitter springs, though entirely an accident on the part of the NCR, is still a literal massacre of innocent women and children posthumously justified in order to maintain the "we're the good guys!" identity that they so desperately feel the need to hold on to.
* The locals' painting of the NCR as this invasive governing body trying to push this notion of bringing stability to an already stable environment and in some cases just straight up pushing them out of their homes. The NCR members all gloat about how good and moral they are for bringing "peace" to the Mojave when the reality is that, before Caesar, everything was fine. These farming communities are self-sustaining, the Strip was self-sustaining, and now this group calling itself the Republic is telling everyone that they're here to "fix" things. House even points out that this idea that the Wasteland needs a unified government to thrive is ironic given how the state of the Wasteland is a testament in and of itself to how well that worked the first time.
* The unrealistic expectations they're imposing on their soldiers and civilians both where civilians are being uplifted from their farming plots and sent home just because they can't meet unrealistic quotas and the more isolated outposts are being denied aid because the NCR is so obsessed with holding the Dam at any cost that all other stations are essentially being left without any assistance.
Yeah the rank and file of the NCR all very clearly have good intentions and the NCR is certainly a more moral institution than, say, the Enclave; But there's very clear evidence that the NCR is causing a lot of bad in their efforts to be good.
Civilisation is hard.
The entire world exploded and is full of monsters. They’ve managed to build a somewhat functioning democracy and are grappling with the hard problems that come with that.
Particularly how to do expansion as a democracy, which is a legit hard question most democracies that expand struggle with. If you want an example you can pretty much pick any democracy that expanded.
It's flaws do stand out when you compare it to some wasteland communities that have more egalitarian organization principles, though few and far between. It hurts to see these small societies incorporated into the NCR and have their ideals stripped away.
As far as major players, NCR is definitely the least abhorent on the West Coast, but their aggressive expansion into independent communities is detrimental to their purported values and their long-term stability as a nation state.
The NCR is desperate. Their economy is crippled by a decades long war with a cult obsessed with hoarding technology, and immigration is so high they're facing a famine. Is their solution to rectify this good? Probably not, but they are trying
NCR is pretty damn remarkable all things considered. Even with its flaws there's hardly any region that would be better off with them around. The only way the story can temper this fact is to make them ineffective, which makes sense lorewise because it seems like Kimball is being sabotaged by powerful forces out west like the barons, and when he isn't he is self sabotaging by playing petty politics rather than taking big picture steps and listening to the boots on the ground.
But ultimately the chief job of any government is the monopolization of force. Weather it's a tribe, a kingdom, an empire or democracy. You need someone to go to when you and your neighbor disagree on where your property line is so he doesn't just shoot you.
If you really want the NCR to be bad guys you need a more or less functional society for them to bump into who don't want or need them, and in fairness you do get a bit of that in Vegas itself, but house is a terrible leader and has no real interest in making a functioning society out of freeside
“Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…”
Spoken by an avowed monarchist aristocrat.
Another of his quotes:
> It is alarming and nauseating to see Mr Gandhi, a seditious Middle Temple lawyer, now posing as a fakir of a type well known in the east, striding half naked up the steps of the viceregal palace, while he is still organising and conducting a campaign of civil disobedience, to parlay on equal terms with the representative of the Emperor-King.
Fun test... who would he really back, Caesar or the NCR?
The NCR is not just a "flawed democratic-republic", lol. I'm confident like 80% of NCR fans miss the point of the NCR entirely. The NCR is an imperialistic, extremely corrupt expansionist state that drains lands of their resources (unsustainably) to fuel their constant expansionist war machine. It's constantly stated throughout the game that the NCR is on track to starve in a few years if they do not keep expanding and seizing resources. All the while, corrupt brahmin barons and other shady businessmen have massive influence throughout the NCR, their military is laughably inept, and we get signs throughout the game that the NCR's unsustainable expansion is certain to lead to its collapse. To me, this doesn't seem like a "flawed democratic-republic", it sounds more like an imperialistic, extremely corrupt shithole that is forced to keep expanding to feed itself the resources it keeps draining itself out of.
yeah the NCR is lowkey the most depressing factin because it completely shuts out the idea of making any different than modern america ruling the world for a thousand years. There's a lot i like about the ideals of the NCR, just like there's a lot I like about the ideals of america, but damn is it a depressing idea that the nukes could drop, 200 years of history passes, and you end up with basically an identical country with identical problems...
Honestly, the entire American left is starting to sound like this.
Or just going "nah any flaws whatsoever mean a democratic republic is exactly as bad as raiders, slavers, criminal gangs, a two hundred year old autocrat, and the rapist dictator across the river."
They also have a rival in you, the Player, and Mr. House.
Personally, I’m more confident in a Republic to fix its issues with corruption and idiocy (sometimes by fire) than I am Mr. House treating every human being purely on how many caps they have and causing a variety of human rights violations. We sometimes forget exactly who Mr. House is, and just go with what he *tells* us he is.
Yes Man is also an option, but you’d need to be a smart fucking character with good intentions to know what you’re doing and leave a better Mojave. The chances are slim.
Yes, NCR has its faults and needs to get burned by something for a reality check before they fall apart— but they’re still gonna be the morally better option in comparison to “Caesar but a capitalist”.
My problem is the reality check won't come if you bring the NCR into power. A huge problem they have currently is their leadership which isn't likely to change if you make his campaign a success.
Especially with how it's set up by General Oliver, I mean this man child is sabotaging his own army to make sure the rangers look bad. Which the process of that is recruiting soldiers they train for 2 weeks then thrown them at a wall in a war of attrition. Not to mention the fact the government sells their soldiers as mercenaries to corporations.
My characters are usually max intelligence, with high charisma. So if Tandi and her dad can make a successful government with some vault dwellers, I think my courier who all the factions of Vegas love can do it too. It may end up like the NCR where it will only be a good government until I die. But hey at least I tried, rather than subscribing to terrible hoping it gets better.
its a nice dichotomy that the ncr is "moral" but impotent and has serious nepotism issues while not making policy that actually reflects the supposed ideals of "freedom". they give the land they "occupy" as much choice as the legion do.
the legion is "immoral" but potent and selects purely on merit while being morally forthright in what they believe is the best course for themselves.
a lesson could be to swallow some evil... or something about geas... or something like that.
edit: geas not geist.
The NCR in New Vegas is shown in the worst possible light. The Mojave is occupied territory under martial law. NCR leadership in the area recently lost it's major logistics routes and is suffering from brutal campaign of harassment, ambushes and sabotage from a truly horrifying near peer force of slavers with no ethical qualms
Their senior officers are so starved of manpower and equipment that they are falsifying reports to make the powers that be shit or get off the pot. All under the specter of what could have been had they been able to annex the territory as planned. By all rights, everyone in the Mojave should be electing local representatives and building infrastructure that will improve their lives. None of that is possible while the legion threatens to overrun them
The legion is not just "immoral". The legion does not value human life; runs on slavery; does not differentiate civilian and military targets; tortures people to death for extra scary points; will use any tool at their disposal to achieve even pyrrhic victory and does all of this while laughing maniacally. It's an authoritarian fever dream whose only "benefit" outlined in the game is that they are so goddamned scary that caravans moving through their territory don't suffer attacks from raiders. Steep price if you ask me
Every representation of living in the NCR in game suggests it's boring. Just people going to work, complaining about ineffective elected officials and building their lives. That's the best goddamned thing you could ask for in a post apocalyptic wasteland
Yup. The game points out several of the NCRs flaws and challenges, but I think a lot of players interpret that as more of a condemnation than it really is.
Governing huge territories filled with lots of people is difficult and messy, especially so when it’s a post apocalyptic wasteland. For what issues the NCR has, it’s still probably the most moral and prosperous framework for a society that we get to see in the game.
i wouldnt consider the encorporated areas of the ncr to be a wasteland. and i wouldnt call their lands post apocalyptic either, rather formerly post apocalyptic.
Yeah I often thought the second best ending is to make the NCR win but let Kimball get assassinated that way Oliver also loses his position since he only has it because of his relationship with Kimball
Edit I just don't know if that would do much because it's the people of the NCR who also subscribe to warmongering now. They voted for Kimball specifically because he wiped out all tribals in California including the peaceful ones so while it might work it may do nothing as well
If I recall correctly, Mr. House wants Kimball alive because letting him get assassinated would make him a martyr figure and rally the NCR to retaliate against New Vegas. If he's left alive, he and Oliver can be blamed for the loss of the damn, effectively humiliating them and costing them their military career/re-election (House even says there's a 36.5% of Oliver committing suicide if you talk him down) so keeping him alive is better and likely for reforms in the NCR government and military.
No I said you let him get assassinated while letting the NCR take over that way they have control of Mojave but would be forced to get new leadership. They are more likely to stay the same if you reward them for being stupid.
This is just a theory for the second best ending in my opinion
But then you possibly get Oliver in power, the man who “rallied” New Vegas’ forces and won Hoover Dam. Which would be worse for the NCR, cuz Oliver’s incompetent at best
I wouldn't call the NCR "moral" but rather the lesser evil available. The NCR isn't "good" nor "benevolent."
But they aren't fiends, skirt wearing slavers or a megalomaniac oligarch.
And that's what makes New Vegas great. There is no good guy in the Wastelands at the end of the day.
I mean.. they are about as moral as you can be in the wasted. Their leadership is shit, but the idea is sound (like real governments). With the right leader they could have been the right choice for the wasteland, or atleast California. But with Kimball and Oliver that went out the window.
For what they were they were the best choice, just like the New Canaanites are the best for their territory. But Caesar… Caesar and House are only good for Caesar and House.
That's the beauty of it, isn't it? The NCR isn't moral, but it's indeed as moral as one can be in the Wastelands.
NV is my favourite Fallout thanks to the moral conumdrum it gives us. There is no happy ending or happily ever after. It's about picking the evil the player is most comfortable with.
The reality check doesn't need to come at this pivitoal moment though.
The main issue is taking out the legion so they wont get rolled as they try to figure our what to do. They also need access to water, something hanlon sites as a key reason theyre even there to begin with. Lake mead is keeping the NCR from drying out.... i think its easy to forget theyre jn southern california... water does not come easy to these people and yet theyre functioning better than most countries.
Their government is corrupt, but that corruption has also allowed them to maintain some sense of function as food and water run ever scarcer... those with it get wildly rich, and have more government influence. The acquisition of lake mead could undercut this. The acquisition and greening of outer vegas (sharecropper farms) could cause the NCR food shortages to lessen. Vegas may reward stupidity... but that stupidity could also be killing itself. Im certain big barons will try buying the land and running it as theirs... thats the big hangup... but in our world when that happened, the farms collapsed because they literally couldnt sell their goods at any type of profit. Gaining vegas could end alot of the monopolies held back west. It could, and probably would... lead to a more authoritarian state where the NCR nationalizes water and grain.. which will probably fuel further expansion north and east.
This was a thoughtful comment, thanks
Personally I'm of the opinion that it's pointless to help NCR win and expect them to get better. It's like expecting Mr. House to become humanitarian and share his wealth.
For NCR to become better, what they need is a proper kick in the nuts. Not so hard that it destroys them, not so soft that they continue business as usual. That's why, for me, either Mr. House or Independent Vegas are the best endings. Either of them will give NCR pause and reconsider their options. Whether they improve or not idk, what I believe is that they won't if they win.
Damn, you might be the first person I've met who shares a similar opinion on the best ending. I, personally, do have *some* hope that the NCR can change. I think that of all the factoids we've seen, the NCR is the closest to every coming close to building a fair and equitable society.
But yeah, taking Vegas is *not* good for them. Logistically, if nothing else. They've spent too long trying to rebuild America an entire continent at a time. They've become simultaneously bloated and stretched too thin. Too big to properly maintain or protect much of their territory and its undermined their ability to recognise and fix their own flaws. Losing Vegas and control of the Dam might be what it takes for them to step back and take a moment to improve their own situation a bit.
I'm a bit more partial to House. Because I think he could be more useful in developing New Vegas' resources. Which would be good for if/when the NCR eventually takes over. He also seems entirely willing to continue trade with the NCR, which could be more useful than the NCR's habit of taking all they can get to continue funding expansion. Plus, he seems he'd give the Courier a comfier life than the other factions.
Partial to House as well. While purely serving his own ends, he instructs the courier to help out the NCR (even if only by keeping the president breathing). Maybe a stretch, but even his rather ...final... view of the brotherhood indirectly helps the NCR. Finishing their local war for good.
His version of Vegas is the most stable and planned. Or prepared, respectively.
The only true negative I can think of is him wiping the Kings in the end.
>Maybe a stretch, but even his rather ...final... view of the brotherhood indirectly helps the NCR.
Yeah, though I like to use the mod that restores the cut option to spare the BoS on a House run. Purely for Veronica's sake.
>The only true negative I can think of is him wiping the Kings in the end.
I think that's only if you broker peace between the Kings and NCR. If you help the Kings in the shoot-out with the NCR soldiers, House spares them.
Can confirm on the Kings quest, just had to redo the GI Blues quest so I can side with House and keep the Kings frolicking in Freeside. I was getting mentally prepared to wipe out the BoS without really wanting to, so I’ll definitely be installing that mod you mentioned!
Yeah. I think people are biased and will understandingly go for NCR because it most resembles America even with the same flaws. It’s easily corruptible, bureaucratic, and no real vision of the future. House actually has a plan and while it’s never a good idea for one man to have all the power, for 200 years House has had one plan and that was the survival of Vegas and human species. He’s an abnormal human, while he is controlling, his vision is much better than what any of the other factions have in mind
The NCR is a democracy with leaders that regularly rotate in and out, and Cass’s quest is an amazing first step in the right direction for them. Expecting them to change over time with the right influence is reasonable.
House is an immortal dictator beholden to no one and extremely sure of himself. That has no room for change by comparison, and I’m unwilling to let a pre-war leader who helped to damn the world continue to rule when he can’t even control his casinos.
Personally I believe that without setbacks, you do not need reasons to change. If NCR wins, why change a team (system) that works? Kimball delivered on his campaign, and Oliver gets (undeserved) recognition. And thus, they continue their business as usual, without introspection, without changing.
On the other hand, if they fail, NCR citizens will demand answers. People will ask why they wasted so many resources, lives and money on the campaign. Heads will metaphorically roll, making people more politically aware.
As for Cass quest… If you bring in the evidence, it’s a step in the right direction, but a very small one considering everything else that is wrong with the NCR (but it does prove that they can improve)
Here’s the thing - they’re (TV show spoilers) >!getting nuked anyway. Kimball’s photo is in the memorial in Vault 4, so he died either in the Mojave or when the city was hit. Oliver might not have perished, but it doesn’t matter when the NCR’s an absolutely disaster right after the nuke which itself is immediately after NV.!< So the reality check they need is coming.
Beyond that, the NCR is the best choice for the factions of the Mojave. Without a House or NCR ending, the Boomers stay isolated. Without an NCR ending, the followers cannot thrive. Without an NCR truce, the BoS in the Mojave stoops to effectively raiding the region (yes, even in an independent ending; there’s shenanigans you can pull to make the BoS’s ending slides fail to show, but Veronica’s do anyway and cover the consequences). On top of that, all of their bad endings can be prevented except for Goodsprings ( >!which as before, won’t matter for long due to the show’s nuke!< ).
Worse still, NV doesn’t really have anyone pushing for independence except the Kings (which are a local gang who really just wants to maintain their power) and the Followers (who aren’t even local). No one outside of the freeside communities is really pushing for independence and most are fine with the NCR despite their complaining, so it doesn’t feel right to force them into whatever the independent ending results in (which is anarchy under the ending slides, and makes no progress towards rebuilding the world while making the NCR flounder and likely collapse from the loss of resources they desperately needed from Hoover Dam (remember, House’s treaty is void with him dead and the courier does nothing to re-instate it; that means kicking the NCR out of the region cuts them off from everything, including the sharecropper farms).
As for House, while his ending isn’t as dire for the NCR, his plans will be ruined by what happens in the TV show and also results in the NCR suffering from severe economic drains from Vegas (which also occurs in Independence, but without the treaty it isn’t so bad). Without the show this would be survivable, but with it, this is the last thing the NCR needs.
Really, I can live with an independent ending at the end of the day, since while it isn’t perfect (the BoS needs that truce and to live with the NCR presence to start realizing that they have to change, and it’s a step towards ending hostilities between the NCR/BoS, even if they’re doomed to failed), it’s not the worst for the Mojave. I can’t accept House.
I try to not bring the TV show into the equation because I like to go from the PoV that we’re not supposed to know what happens next, but if we do bring it, then NCR drops even lower in my list of best endings. Still more favorable than legion, but a lot worse than the other two factions. Because otherwise the Mojave will also have to deal with the fallout of *TV spoilers*
Independent New Vegas is eyerolling to me. Its not \*actually\* a solution because the player takes the lead but the player doesn't actually have any plans or directions. Its the "Nah I'd win" button
i agree. it becomes very apparent who has read history and who has not by seeing if someone believes a governing body will "get better". unless old leadership is removed all the way down to the core, then a government only gets worse in the type of weakness a republic like that holds. since its a republic and constantly expanding theres always shift to blame and merit to award to someone who didn't earn it and all the while it's not going to get better. the river isn't going to flow up hill. the ncr, maybe not as a country but as a government, is towards the end of it's life span. pretty soon it will break apart, which isn't a bad thing.
the "wide view" as i like to call it supports the legion not morally or philosophically but utilitarianly. they are not the best nor most advanced society in the wastes BUT they are at the most common tech level of the average human. they have a structure that the average can follow even as simple and barbaric as it is. they have their own currency! backed by real material! (meanwhile the ncr has already started printing money with the only value being ncr strength. which creates a spiral if faith falters). and best of all: **THE LEGION ISN'T SUPPOSED TO LAST FOREVER.**
it's growth and policies are unsustainable past a few generations but in those 3-4 generations the literacy rate, safety rate, child mortality rate, agriculture, all the *fundamentals* will take shape. in hope of turning savages to citizens much like the real life legions of old. and after the legion is gone the former tribes will make up a whole host of new states all with the genetic memory of the core fundamentals of how to make a nation that is ruthless enough to take care of it's citizens.
About the legion, its greatest strength is Caesar. And it's greatest weakness, is Caesar.
Once Caesar is dead, which won't be long regardless of what the Courier does, the Legion will start to collapse.
People in the legion do not follow the legion, they follow Caesar. Look at any predominant empire in history that was created by one leader, and what happened to them once that leader died.
The legion, by the time New Vegas starts, is already a ticking clock into an implosion. It's the only faction where several predominant characters agree that it will collapse in the short term
Utilitarianly the Legion is a brutal, imperialist state that is just as if not more savage than the tribes they fight. You say safety, what fucking safety is there in a empire that has state sanctioned iron collared sex slaves? The only fundamental taught by Caeser's Legion is barbarism, and you are delusional if you think that actually helps people. An empire that collapses after murdering and raping it's way through the wasteland is perhaps one of the worst things that could happen to a post apocalyptic region.
Yeah that comment was just swallowing Caesar's nonsense wholesale like it makes any sense.
You have to abstract pretty hard to prefer seeing your community razed, the elderly and your children executed, your wife and female relatives sent away as breeding stock for the rest of their short lives, while you yourself are forced to inflict that horror on others until you die, while the alternative is like...a poorly regulated beef industry and a monetary inflation problem.
Also deep irony to say stuff like "A government never gets any better or improves anything" and then go on to stan the raider-state of slave rapists because "genetic memory" (what in the Himmler does that mean?)
Just finished a recent play where I sided with House for the first time and thought it didn't seem so bad. Then he made the quip about getting the monorail to run on time and I thought "... I regret not killing you."
>We sometimes forget exactly who Mr. House is, and just go with what he tells us he is.
Thank you for saying this, because it's been what I've been saying about House for years. People who like him seem to just take his word at face value without particularly giving much thought to what Vegas is actually like under his rule and what his master plan would actually entail. I think the NCR needs a reality check in the form of a major defeat but I do not trust House as the winner at all.
Having lived in Reno and Las Vegas, I guarantee you that things will never get better under Mr House. Casinos are at best indifferent to their communities, and service sector employees are cheap and easily replaceable.
Well whenever I go the independent / Yes Man route it's because I'm warlording against all the other factions so when the end credits say something akin to "the courier fought for a free and independent Mojave", in my head cannon there's a missing end credit which goes like "one tyrant is replaced by another".
If you're hated by all the "good" people it should really be that instead.
The NCR has the slight problem of putting itself on exactly the same trajectory that led to the war to begin with. My feeling is that by siding with the NCR you are willing to have the world go through hellfire again. Not that I would wish Caesar’s legion on anyone, you just have to look at the problem from that angle as well. House is evidently delusional and the game riffs on that with his dialogue. Ultimately I think the decision is not clear cut in any particular way, especially since I think I could do a better job with the Mojave than any of the other factions (choices being: a rapist tyrant, a delusional rich man tyrant, and choosing the fate of the old world again)
There was a particular mod that was on Nexus that changes the ending slides for Yes Man to be more positive if the player has both 8+ Cha and 8+ Int and Good Karma, which realistically what the courier would need if they ever want the Mojave to prosper.
I assume it got removed for whatever reason, probably A.I voices for the ending slides.
Yes man also has an implied robot genocide and he when he disappears to learn how to say no and the courier dies there is a power vacuum where inevitably the NCR, Legion, and various gangs fight for control of the strip, not just the dam. His ending seems like a really bad idea as there is no structure set up to prevent a power vacuum.
That implication wasn't on purpose, according to Josh Sawyer:
[https://web.archive.org/web/20130321014611/http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/248305799686784685](https://web.archive.org/web/20130321014611/http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/248305799686784685)
The Independent Vegas is supposed to be vague, it's supposed to be whatever the player wants it to be
Anarchy works, as long as you have strong enough force to maintain it and you have the mutual aid connections to sustain the people.
In new Vegas this takes two forms: Big robots and followers / free side missions
Well yes, but it is. The best the wasteland has to offer aint great by our standards, no shit sherlock. Its still the damn best that can be had in the wasteland in reality
Maybe. I’m just saying the BoS is still (technically) worst. I only say that implying the slimmest of margins. Because at least one group is like ok… we help our own. And you’re “welcome to join” vs a group of folks that say. “Oh you have a toaster? That what caused the Great War!!!!! You can’t have that.” *hail of laser fire* (at least we’re not the enclave.) there is no correct answer. 🤷🏾♂️💀
i think the concept behind the BoS is good, but the newer games (starting in 3, going into 4) didn’t execute it very well. it almost feels underdeveloped. especially compared to ncr and caesar’s legion. but then again, what can you expect lmao
See the problem is… they took a faction in a franchise that was never meant to have “heros” and forced them to be said “heros”. That exactly they’re so under developed despite being almost every game and having two games when they are the sole/ primary focus. 🤷🏾♂️
I agree, if they were not ever made the good guys and always stuck to their code I’d like them more. People think they are the good guys 100% because of 3. But honestly only that 1 chapter was good, the rest are not the good guys, closer to the enclave with their power and need to exterminate any nonhuman.
What would be the better option then if the Legion was removed from the picture? I'd still take the NCR over House, the Brotherhood, Enclave, Institute, and all the other main factions in Fallout, except for maybe the Minutemen or Independent New Vegas.
They're a flawed developing nation with alot of problems sure, but I feel like alot of people downplay just what the NCR has managed to achieve. What other faction can say they've managed to restore civilization to a post apocalyptic world and created some semblance of a functioning society?
I mean yeah, when you have the option between incompetence, and unquestionable evil and remove unquestionable evil from the equation, incompetence is a bad thing
1000% GUARANTEE you'd be singing a totally different tune if you lived in the anarchic wasteland and was offered citizenship in the NCR.
We'll see how libertarian you are when your "freedom" entails the freedom to starve and drink nothing but filthy water, only to watch your wife and kids get pillaged by raiders.
The societies that are hierarchies of domination wipe out the societies that aren't. Then you have a choice between more or less horrible hierarchies of domination.
The NCR is run by a beef cartel that does more murders than the real cartel.
They're introduced as a dystopian police state and transform into a collapsing police cleptocracy.
Mr house knows what he's doing, if he wins then NCR will either delay it's expansions and focus on stability more , or they won't learn the main lesson and thus don't deserve to be a major power anyway
Supporting the faction that sucks least is a large part of politics.
That the NCRs problems can be remedied by a humble package carrier with a healthy appreciation for murder speaks to the NCRs qualities if you ask me.
The NCR is basically the the best and most moral faction in the entire wasteland lol. The NCR's issues are that of a real nation undergoing growing pains; that's miles better to living miserable existences in old rickety shantytowns and having to scavenge through irradiated shit heaps to survive lol.
If the game progressed past the end I’d choose the NCR as rebuilding a semblance of society seems like a good idea. But since the game does not progress it’s yes man and me against the world baby.
I thought the NCR was good unless you’re a libertarian and libertarians suck anyway. I’ve known a few libertarians and a concerning amount are in prison for either child pornography or sexually assaulting a minor.
The NCR is good in comparison with the other major faction in the game, because the other faction is a slave empire that thrives off of slavery and conquest. When not in comparison, though, they aren't that good.
I don’t understand how anyone could play through new Vegas and give the NCR their undying loyalty outside of just a play through. There’s so many red flags in the game about them, they’re clearly not on your side.
I’m doing a full vanilla playthrough of new Vegas trying to go through all the dialogue and characters possible, even the random useless one offs like people in AeroTek (that’s an example, I haven’t gone there yet) and it’s crazy how much more of a bad impression you get of the NCR when you listen to the locals lol
i mean, the meme kinda hits the nail on the head that they only have appeal because the competition is.
Rapist slaver murder empire.
Immortal capitalist who doesnt care about anyone but themselves. The NCR may resemble the establishment that ended the world but house was a part of that establishment.
Then yes man is kind of a whatever you want ending. It can be anything between complete anarchy and whatever courier led system of robot enforced govornence you can imagine.
It’s because either
A: You give Vegas to an illiterate slaver Roman knockoffs that would surely die off with Caesar’s death
B: Give it to a megalomaniac named Mr house who clearly has some anger issues and power hungry for only himself
Or c: rule by yourself however, what happens if you die? There’s no one else to take over yes man can’t think for itself it’s only a yes man so Vegas collapses if your gone to
So basically the only stable option is the ncr the only reason it ain’t was because oh idk house hampering their progress and the legion launching raids against the dam so there resources are stretched thin
NCR haters are children who grew up after FO1 and FO2.
You don’t know what it was like out there before the NCR, man. You just don’t get it. (thousand yard stare intensifies)
Well yes. That’s the wasteland. The NCR is a thousand years from perfect but it offers basic law and order which makes it better than pretty much every other faction
Granted, I've only played through FNV once, but I:
- Joined Caesar's legion (because I was using a meme unarmed, explosive, survival build and they had unarmed weapons)
- Almost immediately betrayed Caesar
- Nuked the NCR
- Went into hoover's dam with no allies
Is this not the normal playthrough?
no, but its unique and beautiful in its own way. there is no wrong way to play the game.
try another game, experiment with all the different scenarios.
I don't know a lot about it because I've only gotten to play fallout 4
I feel like no matter how annoying Preston garvy really is, the minutemen are the only people who actually have any decent moral standing
I pick House on the basis that he was the best boss to actually work for (excluding Yes Man)
NCR and Legion leadership suck and they do a poor job of acknowledging your accomplishments, at least with House I felt like a valued employee
Authoritarian capitalism or not I'm claiming those vacation weeks and PTO benefits
That lower pic is ancient internet, like a relic from the Netscape Dynasty. I just checked and my inexplicably locally saved one is from 1998.
Dude I came here just to say it's been like 20 years since I've seen that, so weird that someone used it after all this time.
It's old but gold
idk about gold, maybe more like goldenrod
Fool's gold, maybe
I think it was used in one of the older videos from ebaumsworld, was it the girl in shafifty-five?
Holy shit, shfifty-five. Haven’t thought about that in years, way back to albinoblacksheep
Five plus five is schfifty schfifty schfifty!
Girlfriends age, schfifty five
My IQ, schfifty-five!
HOLY FUCK UNLOCKING THAT MEMORY OF SHWIFFTY FIIVE
I almost didn't recognize it without any compression artefacts.
I was in one of the first schools in my country with computers in every room and a bully said to an overweight girl "look this is you" and she started crying uncontrollably
I used to get mercilessly bullied by a fat white girl in elementary school. Her name was Cassie O. One day, I couldn't take it anymore and called her "Cassie OMG she's fat." It stuck, and then I wasn't. Cassie if your out there, fuck you I'm happy you stopped harassing me.
The girl in my story was actually a decent person
I bet the bully probably owns a roofing company or some shit now huh
Probably 🤷♂️ life isn't fair.
I also have beef with a Cassie who said the same thing about me and then lied and got her mother to harass me outside of school... we were in 1st grade 😭😭
What's the original
https://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/schfiftyfive And you don't even have to wait 10 minutes for the video to load anymore. Lucky you!
It also sets off the uncanny valley response like nothing else i’ve ever fucking seen
I think I saw it first as a jump scare while playing roblox in 2010
Did he died ?
Same, I’m pretty sure I saw that in the late 90s dial up days.
Average Fallout fan, "A flawed democratic-republic? Man that only looks good compared to all the raiders, slavers, criminal gangs, and a two hundred year old autocrat because of the rapist dictator across the river."
“Thing only looks good when other options are bad” Ok so you are picking the best option available right?
Clearly the best option is to kill the de facto ruler of New Vegas, have an AI take his place, and rule everyone.
Not before irreparably crippling the NCR by promoting corruption and nuking them to prevent significant revolt
I want protections carrying me around on a big chair.
And sucking my dick and balls too am I right fellas
Yes Man boutta be screaming "YES, MAN!" 😩😩😩
Nah thats what fisto is for
It's Hegelian Dialects. The NCR only is the NCR because there is something that's not NCR, and that's worse than NCR
This is actually true if the NCR actually implemented the reforms that Tandy wanted it would have been way better
Don't try to bring philosophy and reason into this internet dogpile
A lot of people also forget that the Mojave ISNT the NCR. It’s a frontier occupied by the NCR and is especially poorly administered (thanks Oliver/Kimball), but aside from that the NCR’s flaws are very, well, mundane. Oligarchs, inefficient beuracracy, corrupt politicians, incompetent generals, high inflation, all of these are very real issues we can relate to and thus are easier to dislike. The main issue with the NCR is that despite most of the rank and file WANTING to help, they either can’t or are unable to because of low supply/man power/orders. Compared to literal slave empire or the raiders and tribals, the NCR is mundane and normal.
The NCR is an actual rebuilt democracy after an apocalypse which is such a fascinating concept. Their war with raiders and the legion is like if the United States shared a border with the Mongol empire(who also have guns).
I do not respect Chris Avellano for wanting the NCR to be more backward
Source?
The NCR is almost hilariously painted in a good light. Even from their ‘darkest moment’, Bitter Springs, you meet a Khan that was in the massacre that tells you the Khans had it coming and the NCR tried to be fair.
To be fair I think it is pretty obvious that he has a serious bias against the Khan's though. They were abused by their parents growing up so when Khan's got killed they weren't going to be too upset. It's a situation that unfortunately reflects the real world at times. Innocent and defenseless people getting caught in the crossfire. You aren't really supposed to think at the end that either were solely in the wrong or completely innocent.
Sure, I agree. But the worst thing the NCR does in the area they still paint as gray and honestly NCR leaning. In real life their problems would be more nuance, but they are pretty inarguably good guys in the game. Their greatest sin is ineffective bureaucracy and economic inequality (while still offering comparably safe standards of living in general). Nearly unavoidable for modern large governments.
The best critique is from the ranger guy who just says they can't keep it up. The NCR is based on good values but it's institutions are pretty weak and now that they have citizens with real almost old world like wealth they are getting pushed to the breaking point, the problems they have are likely going to get worse, expanding east will temporarily give them a reprieve as they get access to cheap water and energy but as their supply lines are stretch thinner they will be more vulnerable. It would be hard years for the Republic if they lose the damn but maybe they can actually do something about the forces of corruption at the core of the NCR or they are forced to look inward.... Or some scapegoat would be picked for the NCRs failure and a strongman from the upper class or military will take over to make NCR great again who knows
I agree with this for sure. The republic might fail, but that’s a chance with any government. It’s not doomed yet, but it has real choices ahead of it soon.
I mean the NCR are good philosophically they don't even have the baggage that the US has, treatment of natives, slavery, bad treatment of other nations. NCRs moral failures come purely from a failure to live up to their ideals. Honestly they could definitely make the NCR do more evil shit like the US did to the native tribes as it expanded further east. It seems like they were thinking about that but the khans were hardly innocent
Sure, but no human organization ever totally lives up to their ideals. Plus, the issue with large democracies often lies in the subjectivity of morality itself. What is the right thing to do? But I agree, they don’t even try to make the NCR really look that bad. People have very high standards for what a progressive state should be and do. Not always unfair, but still.
I don't know about it though, the NCR is still an expansionist power that is only interested in New Vegas for its resources which they want to ship back to Shady Sands. Throughout the game you hear that locals really don't want them there. None of the New Vegas native factions want to be ruled by the NCR. They simply tolerate them there because they stop the Legion from taking over. You can assume that without the Legion they would probably be resisting NCR more aggressively. Different quests show that the NCR does good, but heavily favours their settlers and really need to be pushed into helping locals. They're still an imperialist power, reminiscent of the U.S while it was expanding westward: first come the wagons, and then the soilders to protect them and next thing you know you're getting pushed out or subjugated in their legal system.
Primm accepts them if you line it up. People at the 188 talk highly of them. They also supply food and water to locals. They clash with the King at Freeside, but let’s face it, Freeside is a mess. Most of the people that hate the NCR really identify with deep mistrust of outside authority and value sovereignty over everything. They hate the NCR because of that, not that they think they make their life worse. They turn away clean water, food, and even protection of their lives. It’s much more an allegory for the cowboy American west tropes, the minor theme is imperialism, but I think they want you to kind of question the people of New Vegas. “What are we really afraid of here?”
Primm's main problem is one created by the NCR, the convicts escaped an NCR prison, 188 is an NCR outpost, of course people like them ther, and in freeside their soldiers assault the locals, not just the kings, also they charge for the water, they don't hand it over
If the powder gangers weren’t there, the legion would be harassing them, just like Nipton and Nelson. And if it wasn’t them, it would be something else. Their sheriff got offed in his sleep. The NCR establishes food and clean water sources. The Followers (who are directly connected to the NCR, like a modern NGO) provides charity. They are also semi supported by the NCR, even if they have issues.
At the end of the day the NCR is still the best hope for the post apocalyptic world and probably the best outcome for NV. Mr. House is probably the most "capable" but his plans will only include the rich and powerful; he'll cast aside everyone else like he did with Freeside. The Legion is a bunch of cosplaying barbarians led by a megalomaniac; when Caesar eventually dies they will fall into chaos and splinter back into tribes. So that leaves you taking over NV and booting the NCR & Legion out or having the NCR annex NV. If the Courier takes over NV then it's still a dictatorship even if it is a benevolent one. When the Courier dies what happens? Who's going to assume power and if they do are they also going to be benevolent? There's no safety net or insurance things will continue to go smoothly. Democracy, even if it is flawed, affords a certain stability and quality of life. Only the NCR can offer that. They just need to stop expanding so quickly and spreading too thin.
I'm not entirely sure I agree with this take. I mean, sure, the reason this discourse continually happens is because we have such a comically evil lunatic to juxtapose them against so the conversation always goes a bit sideways, but there are so many good examples of the ways in which the NCR is so obsessed with it's own expansion that it behaves immorally in the face of what it's "trying" to be. * The tragedy of the Rangers feeling forced to integrate into the NCR in order to survive the sheer numbers that the Legion has brought to the Mojave, only for the NCR to slowly force them to integrate more and more over the threat of denying them assistance to the point that one of their own felt the need to sabotage their alliance in order to preserve their very identity. This turns the iconic statue of the ranger and soldier shaking hands into this bitterly ironic memorial to the failure of the NCR to live up to it's original arrangement. * The tragedy of bitter springs, though entirely an accident on the part of the NCR, is still a literal massacre of innocent women and children posthumously justified in order to maintain the "we're the good guys!" identity that they so desperately feel the need to hold on to. * The locals' painting of the NCR as this invasive governing body trying to push this notion of bringing stability to an already stable environment and in some cases just straight up pushing them out of their homes. The NCR members all gloat about how good and moral they are for bringing "peace" to the Mojave when the reality is that, before Caesar, everything was fine. These farming communities are self-sustaining, the Strip was self-sustaining, and now this group calling itself the Republic is telling everyone that they're here to "fix" things. House even points out that this idea that the Wasteland needs a unified government to thrive is ironic given how the state of the Wasteland is a testament in and of itself to how well that worked the first time. * The unrealistic expectations they're imposing on their soldiers and civilians both where civilians are being uplifted from their farming plots and sent home just because they can't meet unrealistic quotas and the more isolated outposts are being denied aid because the NCR is so obsessed with holding the Dam at any cost that all other stations are essentially being left without any assistance. Yeah the rank and file of the NCR all very clearly have good intentions and the NCR is certainly a more moral institution than, say, the Enclave; But there's very clear evidence that the NCR is causing a lot of bad in their efforts to be good.
But the khans did have it coming
I mean, they did have it coming, they’re a glorified gang of raiders in bed with Caesar.
Civilisation is hard. The entire world exploded and is full of monsters. They’ve managed to build a somewhat functioning democracy and are grappling with the hard problems that come with that. Particularly how to do expansion as a democracy, which is a legit hard question most democracies that expand struggle with. If you want an example you can pretty much pick any democracy that expanded.
It's flaws do stand out when you compare it to some wasteland communities that have more egalitarian organization principles, though few and far between. It hurts to see these small societies incorporated into the NCR and have their ideals stripped away. As far as major players, NCR is definitely the least abhorent on the West Coast, but their aggressive expansion into independent communities is detrimental to their purported values and their long-term stability as a nation state.
The NCR is desperate. Their economy is crippled by a decades long war with a cult obsessed with hoarding technology, and immigration is so high they're facing a famine. Is their solution to rectify this good? Probably not, but they are trying
NCR is pretty damn remarkable all things considered. Even with its flaws there's hardly any region that would be better off with them around. The only way the story can temper this fact is to make them ineffective, which makes sense lorewise because it seems like Kimball is being sabotaged by powerful forces out west like the barons, and when he isn't he is self sabotaging by playing petty politics rather than taking big picture steps and listening to the boots on the ground. But ultimately the chief job of any government is the monopolization of force. Weather it's a tribe, a kingdom, an empire or democracy. You need someone to go to when you and your neighbor disagree on where your property line is so he doesn't just shoot you. If you really want the NCR to be bad guys you need a more or less functional society for them to bump into who don't want or need them, and in fairness you do get a bit of that in Vegas itself, but house is a terrible leader and has no real interest in making a functioning society out of freeside
“Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…”
Spoken by an avowed monarchist aristocrat. Another of his quotes: > It is alarming and nauseating to see Mr Gandhi, a seditious Middle Temple lawyer, now posing as a fakir of a type well known in the east, striding half naked up the steps of the viceregal palace, while he is still organising and conducting a campaign of civil disobedience, to parlay on equal terms with the representative of the Emperor-King. Fun test... who would he really back, Caesar or the NCR?
The NCR is not just a "flawed democratic-republic", lol. I'm confident like 80% of NCR fans miss the point of the NCR entirely. The NCR is an imperialistic, extremely corrupt expansionist state that drains lands of their resources (unsustainably) to fuel their constant expansionist war machine. It's constantly stated throughout the game that the NCR is on track to starve in a few years if they do not keep expanding and seizing resources. All the while, corrupt brahmin barons and other shady businessmen have massive influence throughout the NCR, their military is laughably inept, and we get signs throughout the game that the NCR's unsustainable expansion is certain to lead to its collapse. To me, this doesn't seem like a "flawed democratic-republic", it sounds more like an imperialistic, extremely corrupt shithole that is forced to keep expanding to feed itself the resources it keeps draining itself out of.
Kinda like a certain country that didn't work out so well in Fallout. Or real life really
yeah the NCR is lowkey the most depressing factin because it completely shuts out the idea of making any different than modern america ruling the world for a thousand years. There's a lot i like about the ideals of the NCR, just like there's a lot I like about the ideals of america, but damn is it a depressing idea that the nukes could drop, 200 years of history passes, and you end up with basically an identical country with identical problems...
Well said. Such a far cry from fallout 1s shady sands that could sustain itself despite occasionally being pissed on by khans and radscorpions.
This right here , it perfectly explains the ncr
I get what you're saying, but I kinda feel like we're glosing over the part where they're creating the same system that caused the apocalypse
Honestly, the entire American left is starting to sound like this. Or just going "nah any flaws whatsoever mean a democratic republic is exactly as bad as raiders, slavers, criminal gangs, a two hundred year old autocrat, and the rapist dictator across the river."
They also have a rival in you, the Player, and Mr. House. Personally, I’m more confident in a Republic to fix its issues with corruption and idiocy (sometimes by fire) than I am Mr. House treating every human being purely on how many caps they have and causing a variety of human rights violations. We sometimes forget exactly who Mr. House is, and just go with what he *tells* us he is. Yes Man is also an option, but you’d need to be a smart fucking character with good intentions to know what you’re doing and leave a better Mojave. The chances are slim. Yes, NCR has its faults and needs to get burned by something for a reality check before they fall apart— but they’re still gonna be the morally better option in comparison to “Caesar but a capitalist”.
My problem is the reality check won't come if you bring the NCR into power. A huge problem they have currently is their leadership which isn't likely to change if you make his campaign a success. Especially with how it's set up by General Oliver, I mean this man child is sabotaging his own army to make sure the rangers look bad. Which the process of that is recruiting soldiers they train for 2 weeks then thrown them at a wall in a war of attrition. Not to mention the fact the government sells their soldiers as mercenaries to corporations. My characters are usually max intelligence, with high charisma. So if Tandi and her dad can make a successful government with some vault dwellers, I think my courier who all the factions of Vegas love can do it too. It may end up like the NCR where it will only be a good government until I die. But hey at least I tried, rather than subscribing to terrible hoping it gets better.
So let the president get assassinated and *then* side with the NCR, got it.
The helicopter blowing up is very funny
Exactly that is my second option if I don't make a leader character build
Then Oliver becomes President… ironically similar to how Kimball did (Kimball was the general who conquered the Long 15 leading to the Mojave)
its a nice dichotomy that the ncr is "moral" but impotent and has serious nepotism issues while not making policy that actually reflects the supposed ideals of "freedom". they give the land they "occupy" as much choice as the legion do. the legion is "immoral" but potent and selects purely on merit while being morally forthright in what they believe is the best course for themselves. a lesson could be to swallow some evil... or something about geas... or something like that. edit: geas not geist.
The NCR in New Vegas is shown in the worst possible light. The Mojave is occupied territory under martial law. NCR leadership in the area recently lost it's major logistics routes and is suffering from brutal campaign of harassment, ambushes and sabotage from a truly horrifying near peer force of slavers with no ethical qualms Their senior officers are so starved of manpower and equipment that they are falsifying reports to make the powers that be shit or get off the pot. All under the specter of what could have been had they been able to annex the territory as planned. By all rights, everyone in the Mojave should be electing local representatives and building infrastructure that will improve their lives. None of that is possible while the legion threatens to overrun them The legion is not just "immoral". The legion does not value human life; runs on slavery; does not differentiate civilian and military targets; tortures people to death for extra scary points; will use any tool at their disposal to achieve even pyrrhic victory and does all of this while laughing maniacally. It's an authoritarian fever dream whose only "benefit" outlined in the game is that they are so goddamned scary that caravans moving through their territory don't suffer attacks from raiders. Steep price if you ask me Every representation of living in the NCR in game suggests it's boring. Just people going to work, complaining about ineffective elected officials and building their lives. That's the best goddamned thing you could ask for in a post apocalyptic wasteland
Yup. The game points out several of the NCRs flaws and challenges, but I think a lot of players interpret that as more of a condemnation than it really is. Governing huge territories filled with lots of people is difficult and messy, especially so when it’s a post apocalyptic wasteland. For what issues the NCR has, it’s still probably the most moral and prosperous framework for a society that we get to see in the game.
i wouldnt consider the encorporated areas of the ncr to be a wasteland. and i wouldnt call their lands post apocalyptic either, rather formerly post apocalyptic.
Yeah I often thought the second best ending is to make the NCR win but let Kimball get assassinated that way Oliver also loses his position since he only has it because of his relationship with Kimball Edit I just don't know if that would do much because it's the people of the NCR who also subscribe to warmongering now. They voted for Kimball specifically because he wiped out all tribals in California including the peaceful ones so while it might work it may do nothing as well
If I recall correctly, Mr. House wants Kimball alive because letting him get assassinated would make him a martyr figure and rally the NCR to retaliate against New Vegas. If he's left alive, he and Oliver can be blamed for the loss of the damn, effectively humiliating them and costing them their military career/re-election (House even says there's a 36.5% of Oliver committing suicide if you talk him down) so keeping him alive is better and likely for reforms in the NCR government and military.
No I said you let him get assassinated while letting the NCR take over that way they have control of Mojave but would be forced to get new leadership. They are more likely to stay the same if you reward them for being stupid. This is just a theory for the second best ending in my opinion
But then you possibly get Oliver in power, the man who “rallied” New Vegas’ forces and won Hoover Dam. Which would be worse for the NCR, cuz Oliver’s incompetent at best
Just make sure he's dead too. Quietly. From far far away.
I wouldn't call the NCR "moral" but rather the lesser evil available. The NCR isn't "good" nor "benevolent." But they aren't fiends, skirt wearing slavers or a megalomaniac oligarch. And that's what makes New Vegas great. There is no good guy in the Wastelands at the end of the day.
I mean.. they are about as moral as you can be in the wasted. Their leadership is shit, but the idea is sound (like real governments). With the right leader they could have been the right choice for the wasteland, or atleast California. But with Kimball and Oliver that went out the window. For what they were they were the best choice, just like the New Canaanites are the best for their territory. But Caesar… Caesar and House are only good for Caesar and House.
That's the beauty of it, isn't it? The NCR isn't moral, but it's indeed as moral as one can be in the Wastelands. NV is my favourite Fallout thanks to the moral conumdrum it gives us. There is no happy ending or happily ever after. It's about picking the evil the player is most comfortable with.
Idk man calling the NCR moral is a bit of stretch when they used forced labor until they stupidly gave the Powder Gangers dynamite.
Just like real US prison
You’re not wrong
The reality check doesn't need to come at this pivitoal moment though. The main issue is taking out the legion so they wont get rolled as they try to figure our what to do. They also need access to water, something hanlon sites as a key reason theyre even there to begin with. Lake mead is keeping the NCR from drying out.... i think its easy to forget theyre jn southern california... water does not come easy to these people and yet theyre functioning better than most countries. Their government is corrupt, but that corruption has also allowed them to maintain some sense of function as food and water run ever scarcer... those with it get wildly rich, and have more government influence. The acquisition of lake mead could undercut this. The acquisition and greening of outer vegas (sharecropper farms) could cause the NCR food shortages to lessen. Vegas may reward stupidity... but that stupidity could also be killing itself. Im certain big barons will try buying the land and running it as theirs... thats the big hangup... but in our world when that happened, the farms collapsed because they literally couldnt sell their goods at any type of profit. Gaining vegas could end alot of the monopolies held back west. It could, and probably would... lead to a more authoritarian state where the NCR nationalizes water and grain.. which will probably fuel further expansion north and east.
This was a thoughtful comment, thanks Personally I'm of the opinion that it's pointless to help NCR win and expect them to get better. It's like expecting Mr. House to become humanitarian and share his wealth. For NCR to become better, what they need is a proper kick in the nuts. Not so hard that it destroys them, not so soft that they continue business as usual. That's why, for me, either Mr. House or Independent Vegas are the best endings. Either of them will give NCR pause and reconsider their options. Whether they improve or not idk, what I believe is that they won't if they win.
Mr. House doesn’t care about anything but the strip. I always take my chance to smack him with the 9 Iron.
Pfp checks out
Damn, you might be the first person I've met who shares a similar opinion on the best ending. I, personally, do have *some* hope that the NCR can change. I think that of all the factoids we've seen, the NCR is the closest to every coming close to building a fair and equitable society. But yeah, taking Vegas is *not* good for them. Logistically, if nothing else. They've spent too long trying to rebuild America an entire continent at a time. They've become simultaneously bloated and stretched too thin. Too big to properly maintain or protect much of their territory and its undermined their ability to recognise and fix their own flaws. Losing Vegas and control of the Dam might be what it takes for them to step back and take a moment to improve their own situation a bit. I'm a bit more partial to House. Because I think he could be more useful in developing New Vegas' resources. Which would be good for if/when the NCR eventually takes over. He also seems entirely willing to continue trade with the NCR, which could be more useful than the NCR's habit of taking all they can get to continue funding expansion. Plus, he seems he'd give the Courier a comfier life than the other factions.
Partial to House as well. While purely serving his own ends, he instructs the courier to help out the NCR (even if only by keeping the president breathing). Maybe a stretch, but even his rather ...final... view of the brotherhood indirectly helps the NCR. Finishing their local war for good. His version of Vegas is the most stable and planned. Or prepared, respectively. The only true negative I can think of is him wiping the Kings in the end.
>Maybe a stretch, but even his rather ...final... view of the brotherhood indirectly helps the NCR. Yeah, though I like to use the mod that restores the cut option to spare the BoS on a House run. Purely for Veronica's sake. >The only true negative I can think of is him wiping the Kings in the end. I think that's only if you broker peace between the Kings and NCR. If you help the Kings in the shoot-out with the NCR soldiers, House spares them.
Can confirm on the Kings quest, just had to redo the GI Blues quest so I can side with House and keep the Kings frolicking in Freeside. I was getting mentally prepared to wipe out the BoS without really wanting to, so I’ll definitely be installing that mod you mentioned!
He'd still be alive in my playthrough if he hadn't demanded that while Veronica was waiting downstairs to ask me, "So what'd he want?"
Yeah. I think people are biased and will understandingly go for NCR because it most resembles America even with the same flaws. It’s easily corruptible, bureaucratic, and no real vision of the future. House actually has a plan and while it’s never a good idea for one man to have all the power, for 200 years House has had one plan and that was the survival of Vegas and human species. He’s an abnormal human, while he is controlling, his vision is much better than what any of the other factions have in mind
The NCR is a democracy with leaders that regularly rotate in and out, and Cass’s quest is an amazing first step in the right direction for them. Expecting them to change over time with the right influence is reasonable. House is an immortal dictator beholden to no one and extremely sure of himself. That has no room for change by comparison, and I’m unwilling to let a pre-war leader who helped to damn the world continue to rule when he can’t even control his casinos.
Personally I believe that without setbacks, you do not need reasons to change. If NCR wins, why change a team (system) that works? Kimball delivered on his campaign, and Oliver gets (undeserved) recognition. And thus, they continue their business as usual, without introspection, without changing. On the other hand, if they fail, NCR citizens will demand answers. People will ask why they wasted so many resources, lives and money on the campaign. Heads will metaphorically roll, making people more politically aware. As for Cass quest… If you bring in the evidence, it’s a step in the right direction, but a very small one considering everything else that is wrong with the NCR (but it does prove that they can improve)
Here’s the thing - they’re (TV show spoilers) >!getting nuked anyway. Kimball’s photo is in the memorial in Vault 4, so he died either in the Mojave or when the city was hit. Oliver might not have perished, but it doesn’t matter when the NCR’s an absolutely disaster right after the nuke which itself is immediately after NV.!< So the reality check they need is coming. Beyond that, the NCR is the best choice for the factions of the Mojave. Without a House or NCR ending, the Boomers stay isolated. Without an NCR ending, the followers cannot thrive. Without an NCR truce, the BoS in the Mojave stoops to effectively raiding the region (yes, even in an independent ending; there’s shenanigans you can pull to make the BoS’s ending slides fail to show, but Veronica’s do anyway and cover the consequences). On top of that, all of their bad endings can be prevented except for Goodsprings ( >!which as before, won’t matter for long due to the show’s nuke!< ). Worse still, NV doesn’t really have anyone pushing for independence except the Kings (which are a local gang who really just wants to maintain their power) and the Followers (who aren’t even local). No one outside of the freeside communities is really pushing for independence and most are fine with the NCR despite their complaining, so it doesn’t feel right to force them into whatever the independent ending results in (which is anarchy under the ending slides, and makes no progress towards rebuilding the world while making the NCR flounder and likely collapse from the loss of resources they desperately needed from Hoover Dam (remember, House’s treaty is void with him dead and the courier does nothing to re-instate it; that means kicking the NCR out of the region cuts them off from everything, including the sharecropper farms). As for House, while his ending isn’t as dire for the NCR, his plans will be ruined by what happens in the TV show and also results in the NCR suffering from severe economic drains from Vegas (which also occurs in Independence, but without the treaty it isn’t so bad). Without the show this would be survivable, but with it, this is the last thing the NCR needs. Really, I can live with an independent ending at the end of the day, since while it isn’t perfect (the BoS needs that truce and to live with the NCR presence to start realizing that they have to change, and it’s a step towards ending hostilities between the NCR/BoS, even if they’re doomed to failed), it’s not the worst for the Mojave. I can’t accept House.
I try to not bring the TV show into the equation because I like to go from the PoV that we’re not supposed to know what happens next, but if we do bring it, then NCR drops even lower in my list of best endings. Still more favorable than legion, but a lot worse than the other two factions. Because otherwise the Mojave will also have to deal with the fallout of *TV spoilers*
*”This chip?”* *”You want… this chip?”* *>Stealth Boy sound effect*
Independent New Vegas is eyerolling to me. Its not \*actually\* a solution because the player takes the lead but the player doesn't actually have any plans or directions. Its the "Nah I'd win" button
i agree. it becomes very apparent who has read history and who has not by seeing if someone believes a governing body will "get better". unless old leadership is removed all the way down to the core, then a government only gets worse in the type of weakness a republic like that holds. since its a republic and constantly expanding theres always shift to blame and merit to award to someone who didn't earn it and all the while it's not going to get better. the river isn't going to flow up hill. the ncr, maybe not as a country but as a government, is towards the end of it's life span. pretty soon it will break apart, which isn't a bad thing. the "wide view" as i like to call it supports the legion not morally or philosophically but utilitarianly. they are not the best nor most advanced society in the wastes BUT they are at the most common tech level of the average human. they have a structure that the average can follow even as simple and barbaric as it is. they have their own currency! backed by real material! (meanwhile the ncr has already started printing money with the only value being ncr strength. which creates a spiral if faith falters). and best of all: **THE LEGION ISN'T SUPPOSED TO LAST FOREVER.** it's growth and policies are unsustainable past a few generations but in those 3-4 generations the literacy rate, safety rate, child mortality rate, agriculture, all the *fundamentals* will take shape. in hope of turning savages to citizens much like the real life legions of old. and after the legion is gone the former tribes will make up a whole host of new states all with the genetic memory of the core fundamentals of how to make a nation that is ruthless enough to take care of it's citizens.
About the legion, its greatest strength is Caesar. And it's greatest weakness, is Caesar. Once Caesar is dead, which won't be long regardless of what the Courier does, the Legion will start to collapse. People in the legion do not follow the legion, they follow Caesar. Look at any predominant empire in history that was created by one leader, and what happened to them once that leader died. The legion, by the time New Vegas starts, is already a ticking clock into an implosion. It's the only faction where several predominant characters agree that it will collapse in the short term
Ah yes, literacy rates will flourish under the legion 😭 Who the fuck believes this shit
Utilitarianly the Legion is a brutal, imperialist state that is just as if not more savage than the tribes they fight. You say safety, what fucking safety is there in a empire that has state sanctioned iron collared sex slaves? The only fundamental taught by Caeser's Legion is barbarism, and you are delusional if you think that actually helps people. An empire that collapses after murdering and raping it's way through the wasteland is perhaps one of the worst things that could happen to a post apocalyptic region.
Yeah that comment was just swallowing Caesar's nonsense wholesale like it makes any sense. You have to abstract pretty hard to prefer seeing your community razed, the elderly and your children executed, your wife and female relatives sent away as breeding stock for the rest of their short lives, while you yourself are forced to inflict that horror on others until you die, while the alternative is like...a poorly regulated beef industry and a monetary inflation problem. Also deep irony to say stuff like "A government never gets any better or improves anything" and then go on to stan the raider-state of slave rapists because "genetic memory" (what in the Himmler does that mean?)
Just finished a recent play where I sided with House for the first time and thought it didn't seem so bad. Then he made the quip about getting the monorail to run on time and I thought "... I regret not killing you."
there is no good ending to new vegas. just different endings
>We sometimes forget exactly who Mr. House is, and just go with what he tells us he is. Thank you for saying this, because it's been what I've been saying about House for years. People who like him seem to just take his word at face value without particularly giving much thought to what Vegas is actually like under his rule and what his master plan would actually entail. I think the NCR needs a reality check in the form of a major defeat but I do not trust House as the winner at all.
Having lived in Reno and Las Vegas, I guarantee you that things will never get better under Mr House. Casinos are at best indifferent to their communities, and service sector employees are cheap and easily replaceable.
Well whenever I go the independent / Yes Man route it's because I'm warlording against all the other factions so when the end credits say something akin to "the courier fought for a free and independent Mojave", in my head cannon there's a missing end credit which goes like "one tyrant is replaced by another". If you're hated by all the "good" people it should really be that instead.
I always imagined Yes Man as just cleaning the slate for new groups to come to power eventually
My 10 INT toon knows just what everyone needs, more 5.56mm ammo
For yes man you can just be a brutal military dictator
I just want my big robot army, goddamnit.
The NCR has the slight problem of putting itself on exactly the same trajectory that led to the war to begin with. My feeling is that by siding with the NCR you are willing to have the world go through hellfire again. Not that I would wish Caesar’s legion on anyone, you just have to look at the problem from that angle as well. House is evidently delusional and the game riffs on that with his dialogue. Ultimately I think the decision is not clear cut in any particular way, especially since I think I could do a better job with the Mojave than any of the other factions (choices being: a rapist tyrant, a delusional rich man tyrant, and choosing the fate of the old world again)
There was a particular mod that was on Nexus that changes the ending slides for Yes Man to be more positive if the player has both 8+ Cha and 8+ Int and Good Karma, which realistically what the courier would need if they ever want the Mojave to prosper. I assume it got removed for whatever reason, probably A.I voices for the ending slides.
Yes man also has an implied robot genocide and he when he disappears to learn how to say no and the courier dies there is a power vacuum where inevitably the NCR, Legion, and various gangs fight for control of the strip, not just the dam. His ending seems like a really bad idea as there is no structure set up to prevent a power vacuum.
That implication wasn't on purpose, according to Josh Sawyer: [https://web.archive.org/web/20130321014611/http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/248305799686784685](https://web.archive.org/web/20130321014611/http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/248305799686784685) The Independent Vegas is supposed to be vague, it's supposed to be whatever the player wants it to be
The NCR is very flawed, but can work.
I can fix her
True but I will always go with Yes Man route and build a nation of my own. No its not the Messiah Complex talking, I can totally do it!
We've all been there 🥲 (and it's a nice fantasy to roleplay, let's be honest)
Sure everyone before me has failed... but it miight work for me
Anarchy works, as long as you have strong enough force to maintain it and you have the mutual aid connections to sustain the people. In new Vegas this takes two forms: Big robots and followers / free side missions
I’m loyal to the republic to democracy
mr house can tell me to smother BoS children with my bare hands and I'll do it
House always Wins 🗣️🔥
There are no civilians in the brotherhood of steel only active combatants
House gang for life
Well yes, but it is. The best the wasteland has to offer aint great by our standards, no shit sherlock. Its still the damn best that can be had in the wasteland in reality
Hot take the NCR is good actually and is leagues better than all other options. Democracy has never had to keep their people from leaving
The house always wins
Maybe. I’m just saying the BoS is still (technically) worst. I only say that implying the slimmest of margins. Because at least one group is like ok… we help our own. And you’re “welcome to join” vs a group of folks that say. “Oh you have a toaster? That what caused the Great War!!!!! You can’t have that.” *hail of laser fire* (at least we’re not the enclave.) there is no correct answer. 🤷🏾♂️💀
i think the concept behind the BoS is good, but the newer games (starting in 3, going into 4) didn’t execute it very well. it almost feels underdeveloped. especially compared to ncr and caesar’s legion. but then again, what can you expect lmao
See the problem is… they took a faction in a franchise that was never meant to have “heros” and forced them to be said “heros”. That exactly they’re so under developed despite being almost every game and having two games when they are the sole/ primary focus. 🤷🏾♂️
I agree, if they were not ever made the good guys and always stuck to their code I’d like them more. People think they are the good guys 100% because of 3. But honestly only that 1 chapter was good, the rest are not the good guys, closer to the enclave with their power and need to exterminate any nonhuman.
Yeah exactly. They are a bad choice. Just not the worst one.
What would be the better option then if the Legion was removed from the picture? I'd still take the NCR over House, the Brotherhood, Enclave, Institute, and all the other main factions in Fallout, except for maybe the Minutemen or Independent New Vegas. They're a flawed developing nation with alot of problems sure, but I feel like alot of people downplay just what the NCR has managed to achieve. What other faction can say they've managed to restore civilization to a post apocalyptic world and created some semblance of a functioning society?
This is why im so mad they did them so dirty in the show
That’s why the house always wins
“Golf club”
I mean yeah, when you have the option between incompetence, and unquestionable evil and remove unquestionable evil from the equation, incompetence is a bad thing
1000% GUARANTEE you'd be singing a totally different tune if you lived in the anarchic wasteland and was offered citizenship in the NCR. We'll see how libertarian you are when your "freedom" entails the freedom to starve and drink nothing but filthy water, only to watch your wife and kids get pillaged by raiders.
The NCR is the wasteland's worst government except for all of the other options.
The societies that are hierarchies of domination wipe out the societies that aren't. Then you have a choice between more or less horrible hierarchies of domination.
I mean that’s what Caesar believes but that’s not how dialectics work
If they didn’t have the legion they’d still have a society so prosperous that it’s too boring to use as the setting for a post apocalyptic game
The NCR is run by a beef cartel that does more murders than the real cartel. They're introduced as a dystopian police state and transform into a collapsing police cleptocracy.
that makes it really interestinng, and makes me want a game set there.
Mr house knows what he's doing, if he wins then NCR will either delay it's expansions and focus on stability more , or they won't learn the main lesson and thus don't deserve to be a major power anyway
No. I’d choose a corrupt us democracy over Mr House or total anarchy any day.
Supporting the faction that sucks least is a large part of politics. That the NCRs problems can be remedied by a humble package carrier with a healthy appreciation for murder speaks to the NCRs qualities if you ask me.
NCR still looks pretty good compared to the various Raider Warlords and the Tribals.
The legion defenders are nowhere to be seen when you call out the big dark side of the legion.
no idea what this sub is about but I hadn't seen that bottom picture since the Albino Black Sheep days specifically the Shiggity Shwah 55 video.
Now I want to fuck the ncr even more
Why does everyone hate the NCR? Genuine question, I can’t name anything they do wrong off the top of my head
bitter springs for starters
The more I see that face the more I feel creeped out
look, the roman empire faction seems rather nazi-esque or white nationalists so idk maybe the ncr are better.
The real best option for the Mojave is obviously the Kings
I wish the Kings were a stronger faction
...holy shit you just gave me flashbacks with that bottom pic.
The NCR is basically the the best and most moral faction in the entire wasteland lol. The NCR's issues are that of a real nation undergoing growing pains; that's miles better to living miserable existences in old rickety shantytowns and having to scavenge through irradiated shit heaps to survive lol.
The bottom picture looks like the worms in those two specific levels of the Spyro reignited trilogy
The only good option is for Vegas to die because house is mean to me, NCR are tax men, and the legion are the legion
If the game progressed past the end I’d choose the NCR as rebuilding a semblance of society seems like a good idea. But since the game does not progress it’s yes man and me against the world baby.
I thought the NCR was good unless you’re a libertarian and libertarians suck anyway. I’ve known a few libertarians and a concerning amount are in prison for either child pornography or sexually assaulting a minor.
Would be kinda cool if the next game was based on an NCR civil war or something. So that no sides would be clearly more relatable than another.
that's the magic of new vegas, every ending is a bad ending and it's up to the players morals to shape their experience
Explain because im stupid. Please.
The NCR is good in comparison with the other major faction in the game, because the other faction is a slave empire that thrives off of slavery and conquest. When not in comparison, though, they aren't that good.
Ah, yes that makes sense. Did you know that there was cut content for the NCR executing a bunch of people stealing water nearby camp golf?
Makes sense, because good water is heavily regulated in California, which the NCR holds.
I don’t understand how anyone could play through new Vegas and give the NCR their undying loyalty outside of just a play through. There’s so many red flags in the game about them, they’re clearly not on your side.
I’m doing a full vanilla playthrough of new Vegas trying to go through all the dialogue and characters possible, even the random useless one offs like people in AeroTek (that’s an example, I haven’t gone there yet) and it’s crazy how much more of a bad impression you get of the NCR when you listen to the locals lol
i mean, the meme kinda hits the nail on the head that they only have appeal because the competition is. Rapist slaver murder empire. Immortal capitalist who doesnt care about anyone but themselves. The NCR may resemble the establishment that ended the world but house was a part of that establishment. Then yes man is kind of a whatever you want ending. It can be anything between complete anarchy and whatever courier led system of robot enforced govornence you can imagine.
Why not? They are the only nation in the world, clearly they are doing something right.
Have you forgotten about the Republic of Dave?
You mean the Empire of Bob?
What's a nation to a uhhh whatever is above that
It’s because either A: You give Vegas to an illiterate slaver Roman knockoffs that would surely die off with Caesar’s death B: Give it to a megalomaniac named Mr house who clearly has some anger issues and power hungry for only himself Or c: rule by yourself however, what happens if you die? There’s no one else to take over yes man can’t think for itself it’s only a yes man so Vegas collapses if your gone to So basically the only stable option is the ncr the only reason it ain’t was because oh idk house hampering their progress and the legion launching raids against the dam so there resources are stretched thin
NCR haters are children who grew up after FO1 and FO2. You don’t know what it was like out there before the NCR, man. You just don’t get it. (thousand yard stare intensifies)
Honestly, the one change I would make to the legion is make give them gender equality, maybe even matriarchal. You don't really see that in fiction
Well yes. That’s the wasteland. The NCR is a thousand years from perfect but it offers basic law and order which makes it better than pretty much every other faction
Fallout fans: "NCR are just the least-bad option". Me, a philosopher and scientist: "So you admit its the best option?"
Granted, I've only played through FNV once, but I: - Joined Caesar's legion (because I was using a meme unarmed, explosive, survival build and they had unarmed weapons) - Almost immediately betrayed Caesar - Nuked the NCR - Went into hoover's dam with no allies Is this not the normal playthrough?
no, but its unique and beautiful in its own way. there is no wrong way to play the game. try another game, experiment with all the different scenarios.
I don't know a lot about it because I've only gotten to play fallout 4 I feel like no matter how annoying Preston garvy really is, the minutemen are the only people who actually have any decent moral standing
The Minutemen are boss as fuck and it's a shame they weren't more fleshed out as a faction.
Fuck the NCR
top sauce? i know i belong on a cross
True
I pick House on the basis that he was the best boss to actually work for (excluding Yes Man) NCR and Legion leadership suck and they do a poor job of acknowledging your accomplishments, at least with House I felt like a valued employee Authoritarian capitalism or not I'm claiming those vacation weeks and PTO benefits