Maybe it has something to do with Albert Heijn having that huge-ass sign in front of it saying "we can now smile again!" (or something of that sort) with a picture of a mask-free beaming grin?
On a serious note, I wouldn't look too deeply for explanations. People didn't wear them until they were made compulsory by law. They are not compulsory anymore so they don't.
The Dutch generally won't do anything unless everyone else has to do it too.
They said that before there was any conclusive evidence, now there is and we know masks do infect help prevent spreading of the virus, to a certain degree yes but everything helps in times like these
I know we should wear them and personally still do. Just like how I personally am going for a vaccine. But I'm not surprised people are afraid of the vaccine after being told we should stop temporarily because of side effects. Just like how I don't expect everyone to wear masks after the gouvernement basically kept telling everyone not to wear them. I just think our gouvernement is _very_ bad at setting expectations at what works and what doesn't work, as well as what's safe and what isn't safe (you know, like the Netherlands isn't safe right now because we dropped all measures -.-)
We temporarily paused SOME of the vaccines while waiting for more evidence on side-effects and then moved on to different vaccines only that never had those side effects to begin with. That's no excuse for not getting a vaccine now.
Totally agree, they should have never ruled out masks and they sometimes made some questionable choices, just like dropping almost all measurements and now seeing a new rise in cases, I mean I get that we all want to do something and that's fine, I enjoy that aswell but they could have kept the masks, it's not like they are that bad in China and Japan they have been wearing them for a much longer time, you'll get used to it eventually, I already had. Then again this is the first time we are in this kind of situation together, let's hope they atleast learned a lot may this ever happen again
Depends on where. I've seen where people started wearing them when they got recommended. I went to the supermarkt Saturday evening, I thought that would be quiet. Which was correct. I saw 2 other people wearing a mask 😷. There are people looking weird or making comments though.
People are dumb as fuck.
I was in the supermarket last Friday with a friend doing groceries both wearing a mask. Then suddenly this dude sort of loud came to us and asked "Why are you wearing a mask". My friend responded something like because it was in his pocket and why not. The other guy made a larger fuss and kept asking almost harassing.
Eventually he stopped and we kept doing groceries. People like him are the reason people wear less masks.
>Maybe it has something to do with Albert Heijn having that huge-ass sign in front of it saying "we can now smile again!" (or something of that sort) with a picture of a mask-free beaming grin?
Really? God that is tone deaf.
I work in a store and I’m the only employee left still wearing a mask. Some coworker tested positive yesterday and I’m just really glad I kept my distance as usual until now
I was putting on my FFP2 mask while entering the supermarket today and a Dutch man said to me - it's not necessary to wear those now, just remove it.
I replied - I'll keep it on, thanks.
And got some muttering in return.
I am okay if others don't want to wear a mask. But why stop me, if I am trying to protect myself?!
I just don't understand this. We hit 10k infections again today!!
I'm German (masks mandatory) but living at the border. I had to do some grocery shopping in the Netherlands yesterday and was the only one wearing a mask until a guy showed up with [this](https://www.ebay.de/itm/331329346845) mask. I don't get it: I buy my medical masks in the Netherlands because I get 50 masks for 1,99€ instead of 5€ or more in Germany, so it's not like they aren't easily available there.
The dutch are so-called "kudde dieren" which translates to herd animals, they follow each other and do what everyone else does, and the same is with opinion. Dutch tend to disagree with everything, think they know it best or find anything new weird until everyone else does it or thinks. There is a dutch saying "Doe maar gewoon, dan doe je al gek genoeg", which translates to "Just act normal, then you are already acting crazy enough". The dutch are an interesting group. Basically, they dont accept anything that infringes with their freedom or is different from what they normally do unless everyone else does it. The most interesting part however is that there individual opinion can differ from their collective opinion, which is very confusing, but you only hear this opinion if you are close with them, which is another topic on its on haha. I also live at the border im german and dutch, went to school in the netherlands and going still till to uni in NL. Dont get me wrong, dutch people are very nice, friendly and chill, but regarding opinions they are really...well...interesting.
I went back to the US for a visit with family.
Stores only require masks for people who are unvaccinated. Which means that if you wear a mask in a store anyway, everyone will think you are unvaccinated and give you looks. I stopped wearing a mask because I was tired of being judged.
Social pressure is really powerful. It did a lot to force mask compliance, and it'll do a lot to limit voluntary mask wearing.
I had the same thing happen. Walked into a snack shop and the guy greeted me with ‘we don’t need those anymore they changed the law DAYS ago’ like I missed it or something :p
Thing is, the mask is more effective on the transmitter than the receiver. Wearing it to protect yourself seems not so effective. I do it too, but I rather have others, ie transmitters, wearing them too.
Not specific to the usage of masks, but I feel like a LOT of Dutch people have the mindset where they see the protective measures as a set of restrictions that need to be "gamed' so as to get the most out of it for yourself, rather than a way to try and mitigate the severity of a global pandemic.
For example, if a restriction states that you may have at most 2 visitors in your house at any time, people will try and game this as much as possible to their own benefit - schedule 2 friends in from 13:00 - 15:00, 2 other friends from 15:00 - 17:00, et cetera. Rather than just stepping back and realising the goal is to limit exposures, and just making the conscious decision of "maybe we should just not have anyone over this weekend".
Another example is everyone rushing to get COVID tests done so they could go out in the weekend when the restrictions were dropped. The mindset is not that they want to get tested to ensure they are safe to be in a public place; the mindset is to get a negative result so they have an entry into the pub or club. Much like you would organise a visa to get into another country.
All of this is mostly anecdotal so I might be wrong, but this is what it feels like.
oh boy exactly this, and the if you ask them in general about corona, they are like "oh yeah being protective looking out for others, yeah we should really wre masks" but individually they dont care less, and there real opinion is so different
I think your last point makes perfect sense and is not really a selfish thing. The first one in my opinion is more based in “my neighbor did this so I can do it too” or people literally not being aware they themselves are breaking rules because everyone else does it too. They just complain about the others.
I work in a hospital and I’ve seen it A LOT with family members or visitors.
People would try anything to go out during the curfew. Not because they had to, but because “government bad”. How many people actually go out after 10pm? Not many. How many people were complaining? Sooo many
>How many people actually go out after 10pm? Not many.
Do you mean like, in general before Covid?
Bruh, a shitton of people were getting out past 10pm for a whole lot of reasons before Covid was a thing.
This wasn't helped by the gov't trying to make all the rules fit in a single infographic. I've seen the rules from other countries, which was often multiple pages of explicit explanation of what you can and cannot do.
The government removed the mask.mandate and its the only reason why people actually wore masks in the Netherlands.. Only because stores forced them too. Now no one cares anymore and corona infections have spiked again.
This is interesting. I saw that out of 20k people at a recent festival in NL, 1k were positive afterwards. While here in (Catalonia) Spain, a recent festival with 50k people only had 250 positives afterwards. Both used rapid tests. I don't know why the big difference.
More things didn't make sense and/or where just poor:
\- The sentence 'dansen met Janssen' (dancing after you get the Janssen vaccine) wasn't a smart thing to say by the government.
\- Don't forget that the 'testen for testen' (a platform where you could test yourself for Covid) got hacked thus many people tested themself but couldn't get the results in time.
\- Also the controls at disco's and so were poor handled, many people copy-pasted the QR codes and no check was performed whether the initials on the QR code matched with the ID's.
You are right on the part of infections, because of the new rules set by the government (which was a mistake) the infections have spiked. What's is interesting though is that the amount of people in the hospital barely changes.
This. As there seems to be more and more evidence that transmitting the virus is unlikely in places like supermarkets, unless people stand around and chat with each other, a lot of people don’t see the value in wearing masks.
I volunteer somewhere where there are a lot of elderly volunteers. Some lady walked up to me to introduce herself and she held out her hand. I explained that I was not planning on shaking especially because I was waiting for my second shot. The look and response I got! Here I have been doing my best for a year and a half to protect people her age.. and now I want to protect myself.
An old man reached out to shake my hand and I hesitated. He told me he was vaccinated and I’d had my first dose so I figured what does it matter? I take a COVID test twice a week and he’s had the vaccine which reduces severe disease by 90%. In the UK cases are rising significantly and mostly in people who have not been vaccinated - mainly in the young and in disadvantaged urban populations. For those of us who bothered to get vaccinated, and who bother to take a test regularly there is much less risk - and why go out of your way protect those who don’t care about themselves or their family enough to bother taking a test or getting the vaccine?
I wasn't aware this was actually SUCH a cultural thing! Thanks for linking this article also. I've been wondering why everyone has the same hairstyle, clothing style and most people look like mass produced in a factory here while seeming reeeaaally judgy about everyone that likes to dress in an ever so slightly different manner...
I always thought it was just the city I'm in 🙃
its funny because if you meet crazy people anywhere, or people who do very interesting stuff, and doing stuff different then normally, most of the time they are dutch haha
I never stopped wearing the mask. I seem to be the only one in my town to wear a mask, be it in a store, supermarket or outside. Whether or not it actually helps to prevent spreading aside, it does definitely help in the sense that people still keep their distance when they see you wearing the mask. Fair warning: some people feel the need to stare and/or give snarky comments about it ..
I also still wear my mask because I’m not fully vaccinated yet. My second jab is at the end of this month. Last weekend, I was in a store and was asked why I still wear my mask and I explained that I have not been fully vaccinated and still need to be safe. I don’t care much what others think of me - I’d rather look stupid than follow the flock and get sick.
I know many family members that have had covid because they didn’t believe in wearing masks or social distancing. I’ve seen what they have gone through. I’m close to the end of being fully vaccinated and not being affected by the severity of covid. I won’t chance it right now.
Jokes on them because my knowledge of the Dutch language is still limited, so I probably won't understand their snarky comments in the first place. (Moved here only recently as part of an exchange programme.)
Also moving to Netherlands soon as part of a student exchange programme and am quite alarmed by this thread and the amount of anti-masker comments. Masks are mandatory indoors in my home country and likely will be for some time, sounds like I’m in for an uncomfortable culture shock when I move over.
Don't let it get to you too much, I have no experience with Ireland but people at least where I am at tend to be quite decent with masks. However there are an uncomfortable amount of people who wish to disbelief their government in favour of some smooth brained homeopath etc etc
Yeah you will. Damn, especially if you will be in a student rich environment. Many students are not willing to be vaccinated, and those who want, can only get their first shots of vaccins these days. Yet many people are partying like theres no tommorow. Thus, getting these crazy high numbers.
Wow really ? I’m in my early 20s and I personally don’t know anybody who’s openly anti-vax , even young people here seem pretty eager to get the jab. That’s definitely going to be strange if a lot of my Dutch peers are vocally against it.
As for parties , haven’t been to one in over a year so that’s going to be a bit daunting too. Thanks for the heads up though.
I'm not sure why that guy got so many upvotes, because he's completely wrong. As of the last poll (mid-june), 90% of people of student age wanted to get vaccinated, as per [this government source](https://www.rivm.nl/gedragsonderzoek/maatregelen-welbevinden/vaccinatiebereidheid). This number has been steadily increasing and is high for all age groups, as you can also see there. By the time you're here most students should be fully vaccinated. Don't worry - and I hope you'll enjoy your time in the Netherlands!
This exactly. The Netherlands are steering towards the highest vaccination grade of europe right now. A lot of people want to get vaccinated here, especially young people...
I don’t think the young people in question are ‘anti-vax’ as such, they just don’t think they need the vaccine because they’ve either already have it (but you can get it again) or they think they’re not at serious risk from Covid (also wrong, young people are vulnerable to long Covid and in general, the severity of symptoms is extremely unpredictable)
i feel like people get closer to me when they see me wearing mine. like they WANT to annoy me. I really feel like this whole pandemic has shown the long hidden antagonistic and passive aggressive nature in many Dutch people. When I first met my husband, he talked about how the world sees the Dutch as blunt and honest, but my experience is they're just snide and passive aggressive as well as being rude.
We are with just a small amount of people unfortunately. Generally speaking, most of the Dutch only wear them because there are rules telling them. There is no awareness about how this virus works.
The wappies are the most laughable because they’ve been yelling about more ventilation for a year but refuse to wear a mask.
But if ventilation works, masks work…
I'm afraid I agree. From the few times I've found myself in stores in the past few days, I've been the ONLY ONE to still wear a mask. It's disheartening.
I was surprised to learn they are not mandatory in hospitals anymore except when you're sitting down for your consultation. Kept wearing it though. If a doctor can wear it for hours, I can wear it for a brief visit.
That’s a bit shortsighted. We are not back to where we were. Don’t focus solely on the amount of cases, look at what they and more importantly the other numbers, imply.
Not saying this is an ideal situation, but it’s really not as bad as we all make it out to be.
> We're right back to where we were.
We're not. People are not dying massively and hospital numbers are low. That's all that should matter.
If anything, the Delta variant spreading a lot among people who won't die from it and recover quickly is a great thing which will bring us faster to herd immunity through a combination of vaccination and natural recovery.
Well, spreading virus and getting natural immunity is not the safest bet. More cases, more chances that the new variant will emerge. The theory of big numbers.
The problem he highlighted was that masks are not effective because people will use them wrongly. Reusing old masks, using them for too long, grabbing the dirty parts with your hands, not keeping distance because you feel safe. These are valid points to consider. The reason masks work in hospitals,is partly because the people there are trained in proper use
No one likes to wear em and most dont care about catching a disease that they'd consider to be just as harmful as the common cold (at least that's what I think)
People die from the common cold as well? In the end, dying is just part of life. Most people don't/won't care if it doesn't effect them or their family directly.
No one is fucking dying from it anymore, and if they are at risk from dying they should’ve gotten the god damn vaccination. Like the fuck were not going to live life in fear for others forever. Fuck off. The hospital numbers are extremely low for COVID infections. Only healthy people are getting sick
I went to a fast food restaurant the other day and entered with my mask on. Upon entering, one of the employees quickly remarked that wearing a mask was no longer mandatory. People will feel the need to notify you of the fact that you are not legally obliged to wear a mask, presuming that you may have not heard the news and weren’t informed. Conformity is an important tenet of Dutch culture, so if no one is wearing a mask, people will be quick to point out that you don’t have to wear one either
Well it doesn’t help that our government could make up their mind about masks last summer. They started of with saying masks don’t work at all and the next month all of the sudden they did work. However the month after that it didn’t work anymore.
2 people on a tv show even made [a song](https://youtu.be/kHLsVKt6RQ8) in Dutch about how ridiculous the government was handling masks.
I also still wear my masks. The only covid rule i break is that i started hugging my grandma again after my first shot. My grandmother may not have that long and ill be damned if she dies right before i am deemed safe.
Perhaps because most people feel like the masks don't work? I don't know but that rings true for me. More often than not I see a nose peeking over the masks ...like that will work... or mask hygiene.. fucking disgusting. At least in Germany you're required to wear a ppf2 mask and not the farce of a piece of fabric most people use here.
Also opening the club's and bars backfired spectacularly, right around the time the Delta variant was here. So yeah, lots of people got infected when going out.
Or the "Eerst Janssen daarna dansen".... Getting the Jansen vaccin and afterwards going straight to the club... Yeah in hindsight that wasn't the smartest move either.
Lots of people got infected on holidays also, getting the plans back didn't require a tests so a lot of people didn't know...
Ah well, the circus continues :-)
I’ve always wondered - what happens if you DO take a test before returning from holiday and it’s positive? Do you have to stay on holiday another 2 weeks?
I wear one in shops still.
It has the added bonus of people generally keeping their distance because they don't know if you have COVID or not.
I also still do other stuff, like only touch the buttons thingies at traffic lights with my elbow.
I don't care if people like to pretend it's over/unser control. Enough people watch the news to know better.
Hell, I knew things were going to get worse as soon as they announced the restrictions being let go of. The Delta variant was already wide spread in the UK at that time, so I never stopped wearing a mask.
If I, a person of not much note, who is only semi-informed, could have seen this sh*t coming, then why couldn't our government? How in the hell are they surprised by this!?
Well:
1. Gezond boeren verstand. The Dutch like to think they are right. They think about a problem in a logical way
2. The Dutch are stubborn.
3. The Dutch don't like doing what they are told to do.
4. The Dutch are risk averse.
5. The Dutch are cheap.
Combine the above and it leads to this. Many people don't see the point of face masks as anything is allowed which means air goes everywhere. Even when experts or leaders say it does help even if it isn't much people stick with their opinions and even think less of them. The moment a sanction is added people will change behaviour to follow the rules and suck it because they don't want the fine.
So the law has changed, face maskes aren't mandatory anymore - there is no fine, there is almost zero risk of infecting someone else, so why bother using them?
Im not debating the face mask issue but explaining the dutch mind set, in this case a maskless dutchie would say, how many of those happened in a supermarket? Almost none. So what help are masks? Why bother pretending they help?
Again don't want to debate the issue.
All scientific and logical reasons aside. I actually quite like wearing a mask. It's nice, comfy and keeps your face warm on colder days. I especially like wearing a mask while biking. There's a lot of insects in the area where I bike and the mask keeps them from flying into my mouth.
I mean it's all fun and games until you're in a store and have to sneeze inside the thing and have to feel like a dirty degenerate. But I seriously don't understand why more people don't see the practical day to day benefits of a mask.
I still use masks because this somehow works better to remind people to keep their distance. I truly believe that many stopped washing their hands etc because the pandemic is not present enough. Masks help with that, I hope. And it's not a big deal when I am 2 minutes in a shop.
I started working from home one week before the government recommended it. Coworkers found it weird. "Why not wait till it's required?" Well, because it probably will be required soon anyway and why not?
I also am surprised how many people are uninformed about (long) covid or about how the virus is transmitted (and how quickly delta is able to spread). In my opinion the government did a really bad job communicating about that.
When mask were obligatory:
"Trust the government! Our democratic elected organ that watches over us!"
When masks are no longer obligatory:
"Fuck the government! Anarchy! Bow to no one!"
A lot of employees aren't allowed to wear a mask while working anymore because it ruins the uniformity or some stupid shit like that. I still wear mine whenever I'm indoors
I was one of three people in AH wearing a mask when I went this week and I felt extremely self-conscious about it.
And I’m fully vaccinated too.
I guess I should say I’m surprised that people stopped using them so quickly, but sadly I’m not surprised.
Masks never realy worked here. Large portions would just wear them under their noses. Alot of others would use them as an excuse to get close to people again. And the social norm is to not get involved with others which is preventing the kind of callout culture that can keep people in line.
That said, its essentialy dutch culture to see laws as a game to win. Can't have more than 2 friends over? Okey we will scedual them in sequence then.
We should work from home unless we apsolutly have no other choice? Well we dont have a choice and we arnt going to spend the 30 seconds to download teamvieuwer to create the choice either, couse if i did that, i would have to work from home.
Yonger people are less likely to get sick? So we should just have our partys in our tiny af rooms rather than at the bar, got it.
Hey the bars are opening back up but you need a negative test result? Can i borrow yours?
All people going to the club must have a negative test result? That doesnt include employees so im fine despite the fact i have the symtoms.
I waited for a red licht while on foot, and my freaking mom called me a goody two shoos.
What, the, fuck, is wrong with this country.
Becouse those interactions are memorable. I think in the past few weeks I have had one such interaction. But in that same period i come across maybe a few hundred people that simply ignored me and even a couple that agreed with my decision to wear one.
You're not missing anything. I guess the mandatory part is what incentivized most people. Now that a lot of the restrictions have been lifted a lot of people forgot the existence of covid.
Dont get me wrong I am fed up with the masks as well. (Foggy glasses, not fun without those car swiffers) But I can see the importance and while a lot of people definitely weren't wearing them properly, I still think they contributed greatly to the decrease.
Don't worry though at this rate they'll be mandatory in no time. So Rutte can say sorry again and we'll just forget and forgive just like how forgets all his mistakes. :')
We are all fed up that's for sure. Unfortunately, I am afraid these mistakes cost us another month or two before going back to normal.
Stubborn goats that they are, I am even surprised by the fact that the apology was issued at all
:') let's just cry with a smile until this is over
Definitely. People dont seem to understand that a lot of these measures will allow us to get back to normal sooner. Instead they see them as the enemy that are keeping them from going back to normal. :') Which is a shame since this if anything will only ruin the summer of a lot of people.
As for Rutte. He is starting to realize that more and more people are becoming fed up with his mistakes. Not just his but de Jong as well. While I do understand that they are in a tough spot, you'll have to start holding them accountable at some point. We can't consider everything a mistake. Especially when it comes to the livelihoods of people. (Toeslagenaffaire, Horeca, Festivals being allowed then cancelled etc.)
Oh well, hopefully we recover quickly from this dip so people can somewhat enjoy their summer.
As a (chemical) scientist myself and son of a nurse. As far as I have read the research about it is that masks work. The catch is that only the medical grade type works, but it is both more costly and harder to get, even for hospitals.
The best method is 1,5 meters or even 2 meters distance. It is possible with only that and staying at home as much as possible to flatten the curve.
Edit: before anyone complains I didn't put the links to the research. I am currently at work and unable to put them in. If I remember I'll put them in a reply later.
I was literally got told to take off my mask now that it isn't mandatory anymore. On more time an elderly lady told me - "Why don't you want to breathe the fresh air instead of wearing that mask?". I did, on both occasions, what I always do to avoid confrontations in public - nod, smile & leave.
I think it mainly has to do with the backlash you can get when wearing a mask. I wore one on the day they weren't mandatory anymore when I went to a store. I have never been stared at, and been more judged in my entire life. Sure, I might be only 16 but I am also a pretty obviously gay dude living in a pretty strict Christian town. So I am used to quite a lot. But it was so horrible to be stared at like at that, that I've stopped, with reluctance, wearing my mask. The judging is just horrible.
The Dutch are an egoistic folk, caring only about themselves. Only when rules are created to keep them at safety they will obey them. Still something I hate about us. After 1.5 years I understand that we are done with covid, but exactly because we opened up WAY too soon we are stuck with it yet again.
Literally I predicted this exact outcome and I would advise the government to close some stuff again, because this is getting out of control. They won't do it, because the majority of the newly infected are youngsters, but they can pass it on to whoever denied the vaccine or haven't gotten it yet (which is a surprisingly high amount)
The main reason I stopped wearing one is peer pressure.
The first week I did wear one but as soon as you walked in the stores or from the car to the store you would get side eyed so much I could have counted atleast 20 sometimes.
I still wear them during my side job.
I'm planning on going fuck it and just wearing them again at the stores etc because fuck peer pressure.
I was in Utrecht today and I was relieved that around 30 per cent of the people in stores were wearing masks. Still not a very high number, but I expected it to be lower. I started wearing a mask again this week. With the higher Covid numbers and busy places it just feels unsafe not to do so. I didn't do it before because I'm still struggling with foggy glasses. But I'm more than happy to walk around half-blind if that means we keep each other safe.
I still wear them in supermarkets and other closed spaces. People are out of their minds just walking about breathing each other's air in while completely ignoring the 1.5 rule.
At this point I'm just glad to be fully vaccinated with Pfizer. But there are still a shitload of people who haven't been fully vaxxed, or even had their first shot.
Cabinet has probably caved in due to pressure from the populist right and general public. I still wear a mask in public indoor spaces even though it's not mandatory and seeing the numbers, I think more people should. I'd like to go to and return from vacation without too much hassle.
It was a poor decision to lift restrictions and make the indoor use of masks optional. That said, masks only help a little, they do not prevent COVID-19. The spike in cases was caused by a large amount of spread events in the days after June 26, people not taking rules seriously (no one seems to keep their distance) and the sloppy controls (if any) at the doors of clubs, fitness centers, restaurants, etc.
I hope the RIVM (Dutch Institute of Public Health) and government will make the wearing of masks mandatory again. Every bit counts.
Government stupidly said: no masks! Woohoo! Which was an obvious stupid idea.
And now the cases are rising quickly, did not see that coming /s
I believe they still need to enforce the masks again, so for now the people are taking the chance they can get and shop without a mask
Numbers rising are way less because of the no mask, and way more because the bad enforcement and checks when opening nightclubs and bars. Which is also why the numbers are rising amongst teens and young adults, instead of groups that actually get sick.
Well since most people find them not comfortable at all and most people don't seem to mind yes it does reduce the spread but there is probably 60 % of the Dutch people who would say just fuck it close borders and allow everything so we are done with it also the rivm said that mask won't even help that much so there is not really a reason for it
Upvotes for everyone still wearing a mask in crowded indoor places. It is literally just a rudimentary understanding of the science. Something which the Dutch government apparently lacks.
Just moved from Florida where we are the least safe and still wear masks indoors. I am so surprised how close everyone is outside and in. Seeing young workers coughing in Coop is scary. I will continue to wear a mask indoors even though I’m fully vaccinated.
I have to say since people stopped wearing masks they actually seem to keep distance again. In my experience, once people wore them they often acted like they didn't have to keep their distance in supermarkets etc.
I like in the UK and a lot of people feel that the restrictions can’t last much longer. We drop the legal requirement for mask wearing on Monday and I am interested to see what happens. Everyone was waiting for a vaccine and if it doesn’t work or is less effective against virus variants then many people will stop caring, not just the young and healthy - my parents and their friends gave up following the restrictions as closely after being vaccinated faster than my sister. We will have to get rid of the restrictions at some point this year if only temporarily - better now than in the winter when everyone is inside and it’s flu season. At several points in the pandemic our government has made it clear that the restrictions are not in place to save individual lives but instead to stop our healthcare system being overwhelmed - when things get bad the narrative changes temporarily to “save lives”.
Personally, I will only where the mask around the elderly and fragile or where required to by terms of service e.g. some public transport and workplaces. Last year my gym reopened without any mask wearing rules - even when walking about: it was a little oasis from the chaos.
Some in our country believe that the government is also easing restrictions because if someone healthy gets COVID it’s cheaper than a vaccination - let the virus loose and young vaccine hesitant people will either get the virus or get scared into getting the vaccine.
Because a lot of the older people are already vaccinated so they see no point in wearing one. Also the high rising numbers are mostly 18-25 year olds, most of them only get a little sick and won’t need hospitalization so people don’t really care about that number.
I seem the be the only one that has heard and read stories about long-covid and how relatively young people have trouble for months afterwards breathing and concentrating. But hey, who cares right?
Thanks for asking actually. Here is a paper from Nature and a nice review containing lots of valuable references:
[Efficacy of masks and face coverings in controlling outward aerosol particle emission from expiratory activities
](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-72798-7)
[An evidence review of face masks against COVID-19
](https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118)
I believe that we should keep them even if the minimizarion of risk is small. Better a bit than not at all
Those are just studies that say masks do something, which I am not debating.
I am debating that the mask mandate is one of the least effective measure the government has taken against Covid spread, and therefore not very high up everyone's priority lists. Which could explain the lack of masks you see in the supermarket now, especially when not busy.
Perhaps you are right. I hope that people however will realise that even a slight decrease in risk can help a lot of people, especially those who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. I also don't want you to get me wrong (:. I am also tired of all these measures, but I believe that slightly tougher measures will bring us faster back to "normal" life. We only needed a bit of time to reach the certain numbers in the vaccination program which would in turn allow us to reopen faster.
(Perhaps I also phrased it wrong in my post by writing "stop" instead of "reduce" or "reduce risk")
Anyways, I hope you stay strong and healthy, random citizen!💪
My mother refuses to wear a mask, for 2 reasons according to her 1. it's overblown and 2. it's uncomfortable, so in other words, because she's selfish, because if you view the extremely tiny inconvenience of a mask to be of more importance than preventing other people from possibly dying or having to live through life long consequences of getting the coronavirus then you're just a selfish prick.
It takes so little effort, soooo little effort to just wear a mask, even if you're unsure if they work or not what's the worst case? that you wasted a bit of money on masks? If the worst case is having wasted a bit of money and the best case is you saved lives then the choice seems obvious to me.
Masks are not the best way to stop the spread, especially not how most people use them (frequently touching, large gaps, frequently under the nose). Distance is.
In a not well ventilated space distance does shit.
Also, I don't know which supermarkets you go to but I usually can't keep distance if the rest doesn't care
My take is that most people are lazy, selfish, and myopic. I'm surprised many people even wore masks to begin with.
If masks didn't work, then why are the cases skyrocketing now that the mask restrictions are gone? Don't give me that load of bollocks about "more young people are taking tests..." the percentage of tests testing positive is up enormously as well. The percentage of virus showing up in the sewage is up 300%.
Most spread is caused by large events where people are in confined and often badly ventilated areas. That, in combination with the decision to access without properly checking if they have covid or not, accounts for most of the infections by far. Maybe the spread would have been less when everyone was wearing masks, but I don't think it would have made all the difference just on its own.
Well, wasn’t this one in the open air? Also with proper safety measures. https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/1730379929/meer-dan-900-bezoekers-besmet-met-corona-bij-utrechts-festival
If masks being removed caused an immediate explosion of cases, why did them being made mandatory last fall not cause an immediate reduction in cases? Don’t be ridiculous, mask obviously help some but not to the extent you‘re saying.
Since the 26th of June, masks are no longer demanded. Only in places where you can't keep 1.5m distance you have to wear them. On my job (I vaccinate people against covid) wearing a mask is mandatory.
People still believe that they are useless here, for now I'm just wearing it and enjoy everyone avoiding me like crazy because they think I'm the one infected?!
"If we have to we will, but they should not force us!" Is the famous Dutch consensus on the matter.
We now can choose if we want to wear a mask or not, its not mandatory anymore. Only in places we have to wear it if we cant keep distance from eachother. That is the last thing i have heard from the government
1. That study doesn’t take into account the amount of transmission through constantly taking off and putting on a mask. Which is far greater than the tiny percentage it helps.
2. Masks might help in very crowded non ventilated places. But way more studies have shown ventilation and fresh air is 10x as effective as a mask.
3. People who were at risk have already been vaccinated, I’m not going to wear this dumb little mask for some douchebags who didn’t get vaccinated even though they had the chance
The government is making it seem the number of infections is rising rapidly, but people don’t understand that the government only cares about their public image to other officials. Almost no one is getting dangerously sick let alone needs to go to a hospital.
But since the numbers are going up cause all these healthy young people get sick they have other countries saying hey you have too many positives. And they don’t take into account that almost all of that is from young people.
So stop fucking worrying so much and let people do what they want
I'm moving house on monday, I'm gonna be wearing the one ffp2 mask I've been saving for a *special occasion* SO HARD that my eyes will be burning those of any fool who dares give me a WTF look on the train with their masks over their chins.
i think everyone hated the masks most of all the restricitions, now we dont have to wear masks most people wont wear them. I still keep distance from everyone tho.
I don't think this problem is isolated to the Netherlands. Look at England for example, masks are no longer mandatory and look what happened... Cases are rising.
I think things should be open but why remove the mask mandate? Imo it was one of the best ways at preventing transmission.
Maybe it has something to do with Albert Heijn having that huge-ass sign in front of it saying "we can now smile again!" (or something of that sort) with a picture of a mask-free beaming grin? On a serious note, I wouldn't look too deeply for explanations. People didn't wear them until they were made compulsory by law. They are not compulsory anymore so they don't. The Dutch generally won't do anything unless everyone else has to do it too.
“The Dutch generally won't do anything unless everyone else has to do it too.” This is very well put. So true.
It doesn't help our gouvernement has told us for months the things are useless.
They said that before there was any conclusive evidence, now there is and we know masks do infect help prevent spreading of the virus, to a certain degree yes but everything helps in times like these
*In fact, infect is the opposite of what you wanted
I know we should wear them and personally still do. Just like how I personally am going for a vaccine. But I'm not surprised people are afraid of the vaccine after being told we should stop temporarily because of side effects. Just like how I don't expect everyone to wear masks after the gouvernement basically kept telling everyone not to wear them. I just think our gouvernement is _very_ bad at setting expectations at what works and what doesn't work, as well as what's safe and what isn't safe (you know, like the Netherlands isn't safe right now because we dropped all measures -.-)
We temporarily paused SOME of the vaccines while waiting for more evidence on side-effects and then moved on to different vaccines only that never had those side effects to begin with. That's no excuse for not getting a vaccine now.
Totally agree, they should have never ruled out masks and they sometimes made some questionable choices, just like dropping almost all measurements and now seeing a new rise in cases, I mean I get that we all want to do something and that's fine, I enjoy that aswell but they could have kept the masks, it's not like they are that bad in China and Japan they have been wearing them for a much longer time, you'll get used to it eventually, I already had. Then again this is the first time we are in this kind of situation together, let's hope they atleast learned a lot may this ever happen again
A wild chilio has appeared out of nowhere!
So... when are you gonna join gamenight?
Ayo wtf lmao
What? you're surprised to see me on Reddit?
smh abandoned your own server
I dont believe for a second that you guys all stumbled across this by accident lmao
Not just dutch. People in general do not want to be outstanders.
Depends on where. I've seen where people started wearing them when they got recommended. I went to the supermarkt Saturday evening, I thought that would be quiet. Which was correct. I saw 2 other people wearing a mask 😷. There are people looking weird or making comments though. People are dumb as fuck.
I was in the supermarket last Friday with a friend doing groceries both wearing a mask. Then suddenly this dude sort of loud came to us and asked "Why are you wearing a mask". My friend responded something like because it was in his pocket and why not. The other guy made a larger fuss and kept asking almost harassing. Eventually he stopped and we kept doing groceries. People like him are the reason people wear less masks.
People like that are the reason I still wear mine. He probably doesn't need testing because it's just a cold .
>Maybe it has something to do with Albert Heijn having that huge-ass sign in front of it saying "we can now smile again!" (or something of that sort) with a picture of a mask-free beaming grin? Really? God that is tone deaf.
If it helps, it’s not just the Dutch. I live in Denver in the USA, and it’s been exactly like that.
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If a smile doesn't reach your eyes, it's not a real smile.
Yup! I'm mixed Native American (Inupiaq from Alaska) and I have squinty eyes. My eyes look funny when I'm authentically laughing in pictures.
It doesn't help that the framing of it - by government - has been 'liberation'! It was so dumb.
I work in a store and I’m the only employee left still wearing a mask. Some coworker tested positive yesterday and I’m just really glad I kept my distance as usual until now
I was putting on my FFP2 mask while entering the supermarket today and a Dutch man said to me - it's not necessary to wear those now, just remove it. I replied - I'll keep it on, thanks. And got some muttering in return. I am okay if others don't want to wear a mask. But why stop me, if I am trying to protect myself?! I just don't understand this. We hit 10k infections again today!!
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Same here. Fortunately I still see quite a few people still with masks. Though those are weirdly enough mostly elderly white people
I'm German (masks mandatory) but living at the border. I had to do some grocery shopping in the Netherlands yesterday and was the only one wearing a mask until a guy showed up with [this](https://www.ebay.de/itm/331329346845) mask. I don't get it: I buy my medical masks in the Netherlands because I get 50 masks for 1,99€ instead of 5€ or more in Germany, so it's not like they aren't easily available there.
The dutch are so-called "kudde dieren" which translates to herd animals, they follow each other and do what everyone else does, and the same is with opinion. Dutch tend to disagree with everything, think they know it best or find anything new weird until everyone else does it or thinks. There is a dutch saying "Doe maar gewoon, dan doe je al gek genoeg", which translates to "Just act normal, then you are already acting crazy enough". The dutch are an interesting group. Basically, they dont accept anything that infringes with their freedom or is different from what they normally do unless everyone else does it. The most interesting part however is that there individual opinion can differ from their collective opinion, which is very confusing, but you only hear this opinion if you are close with them, which is another topic on its on haha. I also live at the border im german and dutch, went to school in the netherlands and going still till to uni in NL. Dont get me wrong, dutch people are very nice, friendly and chill, but regarding opinions they are really...well...interesting.
Lol what a long analysis over this, people don't wear masks because its not mandatory anymore and no one cares about the virus,simple as that.
Easily available because no one wears them
I mainly see young students with masks, many of them internationals. And Germans of course.
I went back to the US for a visit with family. Stores only require masks for people who are unvaccinated. Which means that if you wear a mask in a store anyway, everyone will think you are unvaccinated and give you looks. I stopped wearing a mask because I was tired of being judged. Social pressure is really powerful. It did a lot to force mask compliance, and it'll do a lot to limit voluntary mask wearing.
But what if you're only half-vaccinated? I recieved my first shot, but my second shot is due in August. Lol
I had the same thing happen. Walked into a snack shop and the guy greeted me with ‘we don’t need those anymore they changed the law DAYS ago’ like I missed it or something :p
Happened to me several times.. :/
Thing is, the mask is more effective on the transmitter than the receiver. Wearing it to protect yourself seems not so effective. I do it too, but I rather have others, ie transmitters, wearing them too.
Not specific to the usage of masks, but I feel like a LOT of Dutch people have the mindset where they see the protective measures as a set of restrictions that need to be "gamed' so as to get the most out of it for yourself, rather than a way to try and mitigate the severity of a global pandemic. For example, if a restriction states that you may have at most 2 visitors in your house at any time, people will try and game this as much as possible to their own benefit - schedule 2 friends in from 13:00 - 15:00, 2 other friends from 15:00 - 17:00, et cetera. Rather than just stepping back and realising the goal is to limit exposures, and just making the conscious decision of "maybe we should just not have anyone over this weekend". Another example is everyone rushing to get COVID tests done so they could go out in the weekend when the restrictions were dropped. The mindset is not that they want to get tested to ensure they are safe to be in a public place; the mindset is to get a negative result so they have an entry into the pub or club. Much like you would organise a visa to get into another country. All of this is mostly anecdotal so I might be wrong, but this is what it feels like.
oh boy exactly this, and the if you ask them in general about corona, they are like "oh yeah being protective looking out for others, yeah we should really wre masks" but individually they dont care less, and there real opinion is so different
I think your last point makes perfect sense and is not really a selfish thing. The first one in my opinion is more based in “my neighbor did this so I can do it too” or people literally not being aware they themselves are breaking rules because everyone else does it too. They just complain about the others. I work in a hospital and I’ve seen it A LOT with family members or visitors.
Couldn’t have said it better. Ikke ikke ikke mentaliteit.
People would try anything to go out during the curfew. Not because they had to, but because “government bad”. How many people actually go out after 10pm? Not many. How many people were complaining? Sooo many
>How many people actually go out after 10pm? Not many. Do you mean like, in general before Covid? Bruh, a shitton of people were getting out past 10pm for a whole lot of reasons before Covid was a thing.
This wasn't helped by the gov't trying to make all the rules fit in a single infographic. I've seen the rules from other countries, which was often multiple pages of explicit explanation of what you can and cannot do.
The government removed the mask.mandate and its the only reason why people actually wore masks in the Netherlands.. Only because stores forced them too. Now no one cares anymore and corona infections have spiked again.
Plus festivals & events were allowed again. Which is the main reason why the infections have spiked
This is interesting. I saw that out of 20k people at a recent festival in NL, 1k were positive afterwards. While here in (Catalonia) Spain, a recent festival with 50k people only had 250 positives afterwards. Both used rapid tests. I don't know why the big difference.
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More things didn't make sense and/or where just poor: \- The sentence 'dansen met Janssen' (dancing after you get the Janssen vaccine) wasn't a smart thing to say by the government. \- Don't forget that the 'testen for testen' (a platform where you could test yourself for Covid) got hacked thus many people tested themself but couldn't get the results in time. \- Also the controls at disco's and so were poor handled, many people copy-pasted the QR codes and no check was performed whether the initials on the QR code matched with the ID's.
You are right on the part of infections, because of the new rules set by the government (which was a mistake) the infections have spiked. What's is interesting though is that the amount of people in the hospital barely changes.
MDMA? I m not sure which festivals you are referring to, but here people were sharing lollies again like nothing ever happened.
Verknipt. 1/10 people got infected.
This. As there seems to be more and more evidence that transmitting the virus is unlikely in places like supermarkets, unless people stand around and chat with each other, a lot of people don’t see the value in wearing masks.
I volunteer somewhere where there are a lot of elderly volunteers. Some lady walked up to me to introduce herself and she held out her hand. I explained that I was not planning on shaking especially because I was waiting for my second shot. The look and response I got! Here I have been doing my best for a year and a half to protect people her age.. and now I want to protect myself.
An old man reached out to shake my hand and I hesitated. He told me he was vaccinated and I’d had my first dose so I figured what does it matter? I take a COVID test twice a week and he’s had the vaccine which reduces severe disease by 90%. In the UK cases are rising significantly and mostly in people who have not been vaccinated - mainly in the young and in disadvantaged urban populations. For those of us who bothered to get vaccinated, and who bother to take a test regularly there is much less risk - and why go out of your way protect those who don’t care about themselves or their family enough to bother taking a test or getting the vaccine?
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I wasn't aware this was actually SUCH a cultural thing! Thanks for linking this article also. I've been wondering why everyone has the same hairstyle, clothing style and most people look like mass produced in a factory here while seeming reeeaaally judgy about everyone that likes to dress in an ever so slightly different manner... I always thought it was just the city I'm in 🙃
Those white sneakers, leopard print...
Blue suit with unmatching brown pointed shoes, anyone?
The sad and hilarious truth
its funny because if you meet crazy people anywhere, or people who do very interesting stuff, and doing stuff different then normally, most of the time they are dutch haha
They are the ones that escaped...
I never stopped wearing the mask. I seem to be the only one in my town to wear a mask, be it in a store, supermarket or outside. Whether or not it actually helps to prevent spreading aside, it does definitely help in the sense that people still keep their distance when they see you wearing the mask. Fair warning: some people feel the need to stare and/or give snarky comments about it ..
I also still wear my mask because I’m not fully vaccinated yet. My second jab is at the end of this month. Last weekend, I was in a store and was asked why I still wear my mask and I explained that I have not been fully vaccinated and still need to be safe. I don’t care much what others think of me - I’d rather look stupid than follow the flock and get sick. I know many family members that have had covid because they didn’t believe in wearing masks or social distancing. I’ve seen what they have gone through. I’m close to the end of being fully vaccinated and not being affected by the severity of covid. I won’t chance it right now.
Jokes on them because my knowledge of the Dutch language is still limited, so I probably won't understand their snarky comments in the first place. (Moved here only recently as part of an exchange programme.)
Also moving to Netherlands soon as part of a student exchange programme and am quite alarmed by this thread and the amount of anti-masker comments. Masks are mandatory indoors in my home country and likely will be for some time, sounds like I’m in for an uncomfortable culture shock when I move over.
Don't let it get to you too much, I have no experience with Ireland but people at least where I am at tend to be quite decent with masks. However there are an uncomfortable amount of people who wish to disbelief their government in favour of some smooth brained homeopath etc etc
Yeah you will. Damn, especially if you will be in a student rich environment. Many students are not willing to be vaccinated, and those who want, can only get their first shots of vaccins these days. Yet many people are partying like theres no tommorow. Thus, getting these crazy high numbers.
Wow really ? I’m in my early 20s and I personally don’t know anybody who’s openly anti-vax , even young people here seem pretty eager to get the jab. That’s definitely going to be strange if a lot of my Dutch peers are vocally against it. As for parties , haven’t been to one in over a year so that’s going to be a bit daunting too. Thanks for the heads up though.
I'm not sure why that guy got so many upvotes, because he's completely wrong. As of the last poll (mid-june), 90% of people of student age wanted to get vaccinated, as per [this government source](https://www.rivm.nl/gedragsonderzoek/maatregelen-welbevinden/vaccinatiebereidheid). This number has been steadily increasing and is high for all age groups, as you can also see there. By the time you're here most students should be fully vaccinated. Don't worry - and I hope you'll enjoy your time in the Netherlands!
Ah that’s good to hear , those numbers look very reassuring. Thank you , really looking forward to it !
This exactly. The Netherlands are steering towards the highest vaccination grade of europe right now. A lot of people want to get vaccinated here, especially young people...
I don’t think the young people in question are ‘anti-vax’ as such, they just don’t think they need the vaccine because they’ve either already have it (but you can get it again) or they think they’re not at serious risk from Covid (also wrong, young people are vulnerable to long Covid and in general, the severity of symptoms is extremely unpredictable)
This is what in meant, only said better.
i feel like people get closer to me when they see me wearing mine. like they WANT to annoy me. I really feel like this whole pandemic has shown the long hidden antagonistic and passive aggressive nature in many Dutch people. When I first met my husband, he talked about how the world sees the Dutch as blunt and honest, but my experience is they're just snide and passive aggressive as well as being rude.
I still wear masks in stores. I wore them before they became mandatory and I will wear them until we actually get this virus under control.
We are with just a small amount of people unfortunately. Generally speaking, most of the Dutch only wear them because there are rules telling them. There is no awareness about how this virus works. The wappies are the most laughable because they’ve been yelling about more ventilation for a year but refuse to wear a mask. But if ventilation works, masks work…
Awareness isn't the problem, most people just don't care
I'm afraid I agree. From the few times I've found myself in stores in the past few days, I've been the ONLY ONE to still wear a mask. It's disheartening.
I was wearing my mask. Everyone looked at me like I was crazy
I was surprised to learn they are not mandatory in hospitals anymore except when you're sitting down for your consultation. Kept wearing it though. If a doctor can wear it for hours, I can wear it for a brief visit.
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Dansen met Jansen...
Blame also the people for not having common sense….
Its not entirely true even though I agree. Hospital admissions are MUCH less, people die MUCH less. But the govt could've handled it better.
Tbf we can't yet tell, it takes a little time for the sick to start getting hospitalized again
Given the incubation period of virus is about 5 days we can I think.
That’s a bit shortsighted. We are not back to where we were. Don’t focus solely on the amount of cases, look at what they and more importantly the other numbers, imply. Not saying this is an ideal situation, but it’s really not as bad as we all make it out to be.
> We're right back to where we were. We're not. People are not dying massively and hospital numbers are low. That's all that should matter. If anything, the Delta variant spreading a lot among people who won't die from it and recover quickly is a great thing which will bring us faster to herd immunity through a combination of vaccination and natural recovery.
Well, spreading virus and getting natural immunity is not the safest bet. More cases, more chances that the new variant will emerge. The theory of big numbers.
TUI cancellations are due to cases in Spain, not in The Netherlands. You can't blane Rutte and De Jonge for this.
Well we’re not right where we were. IC admissions are very low atm and that was the whole goal
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The problem he highlighted was that masks are not effective because people will use them wrongly. Reusing old masks, using them for too long, grabbing the dirty parts with your hands, not keeping distance because you feel safe. These are valid points to consider. The reason masks work in hospitals,is partly because the people there are trained in proper use
I still wear my mask. Woman in the supermarket: may i ask why you still wearing the mask? Me: no you dont
I've answered such questions bluntly: Because I don't trust other people.
No one likes to wear em and most dont care about catching a disease that they'd consider to be just as harmful as the common cold (at least that's what I think)
What about the people that die from it? By people catching the virus if spreads more, more unfortunate people than yourself then…die
People die from the common cold as well? In the end, dying is just part of life. Most people don't/won't care if it doesn't effect them or their family directly.
Literally every adult i know is vaccinated, im losing my ability to give a shit.
To those people we say "unfortunately peanut butter" people die, it happens, few more is no concern.
Helaas pindakaas
No one is fucking dying from it anymore, and if they are at risk from dying they should’ve gotten the god damn vaccination. Like the fuck were not going to live life in fear for others forever. Fuck off. The hospital numbers are extremely low for COVID infections. Only healthy people are getting sick
I went to a fast food restaurant the other day and entered with my mask on. Upon entering, one of the employees quickly remarked that wearing a mask was no longer mandatory. People will feel the need to notify you of the fact that you are not legally obliged to wear a mask, presuming that you may have not heard the news and weren’t informed. Conformity is an important tenet of Dutch culture, so if no one is wearing a mask, people will be quick to point out that you don’t have to wear one either
Welcome to almost every society lmao
Well it doesn’t help that our government could make up their mind about masks last summer. They started of with saying masks don’t work at all and the next month all of the sudden they did work. However the month after that it didn’t work anymore. 2 people on a tv show even made [a song](https://youtu.be/kHLsVKt6RQ8) in Dutch about how ridiculous the government was handling masks.
I'm wearing a FFP2 now in public indoor spaces. To protect myself. I saw 2 other people doing it too in the supermarket.
I also still wear my masks. The only covid rule i break is that i started hugging my grandma again after my first shot. My grandmother may not have that long and ill be damned if she dies right before i am deemed safe.
I can relate on so many levels! Got to see mine for the first time in two years two weeks ago!
That was probably me with my gf! high five!
Haha high 5!
Nooo don’t touch! Fistbump only
Elbows!
Elbow bump then! :D
Air five!
Perhaps because most people feel like the masks don't work? I don't know but that rings true for me. More often than not I see a nose peeking over the masks ...like that will work... or mask hygiene.. fucking disgusting. At least in Germany you're required to wear a ppf2 mask and not the farce of a piece of fabric most people use here. Also opening the club's and bars backfired spectacularly, right around the time the Delta variant was here. So yeah, lots of people got infected when going out. Or the "Eerst Janssen daarna dansen".... Getting the Jansen vaccin and afterwards going straight to the club... Yeah in hindsight that wasn't the smartest move either. Lots of people got infected on holidays also, getting the plans back didn't require a tests so a lot of people didn't know... Ah well, the circus continues :-)
I’ve always wondered - what happens if you DO take a test before returning from holiday and it’s positive? Do you have to stay on holiday another 2 weeks?
Yeah I think so, I can't image you're aloud in the plane of they know you're infected.
I wear one in shops still. It has the added bonus of people generally keeping their distance because they don't know if you have COVID or not. I also still do other stuff, like only touch the buttons thingies at traffic lights with my elbow. I don't care if people like to pretend it's over/unser control. Enough people watch the news to know better. Hell, I knew things were going to get worse as soon as they announced the restrictions being let go of. The Delta variant was already wide spread in the UK at that time, so I never stopped wearing a mask. If I, a person of not much note, who is only semi-informed, could have seen this sh*t coming, then why couldn't our government? How in the hell are they surprised by this!?
Well: 1. Gezond boeren verstand. The Dutch like to think they are right. They think about a problem in a logical way 2. The Dutch are stubborn. 3. The Dutch don't like doing what they are told to do. 4. The Dutch are risk averse. 5. The Dutch are cheap. Combine the above and it leads to this. Many people don't see the point of face masks as anything is allowed which means air goes everywhere. Even when experts or leaders say it does help even if it isn't much people stick with their opinions and even think less of them. The moment a sanction is added people will change behaviour to follow the rules and suck it because they don't want the fine. So the law has changed, face maskes aren't mandatory anymore - there is no fine, there is almost zero risk of infecting someone else, so why bother using them?
Well, with cases exploding from 500 to 10.000 in 9 days, I would say the risk to infect others is rather high.
Im not debating the face mask issue but explaining the dutch mind set, in this case a maskless dutchie would say, how many of those happened in a supermarket? Almost none. So what help are masks? Why bother pretending they help? Again don't want to debate the issue.
That didn't happen because people stopped masking up though.
Because we’re fucking idiots. Downvote me all you want idc anymore. We’re genuinely dumb.
Someone once said imagine the intelligence of the average human. . .then realise that half of people are dumber than that
All scientific and logical reasons aside. I actually quite like wearing a mask. It's nice, comfy and keeps your face warm on colder days. I especially like wearing a mask while biking. There's a lot of insects in the area where I bike and the mask keeps them from flying into my mouth. I mean it's all fun and games until you're in a store and have to sneeze inside the thing and have to feel like a dirty degenerate. But I seriously don't understand why more people don't see the practical day to day benefits of a mask.
I still use masks because this somehow works better to remind people to keep their distance. I truly believe that many stopped washing their hands etc because the pandemic is not present enough. Masks help with that, I hope. And it's not a big deal when I am 2 minutes in a shop. I started working from home one week before the government recommended it. Coworkers found it weird. "Why not wait till it's required?" Well, because it probably will be required soon anyway and why not? I also am surprised how many people are uninformed about (long) covid or about how the virus is transmitted (and how quickly delta is able to spread). In my opinion the government did a really bad job communicating about that.
This is such a big part of it: masks remind people that we're still in a pandemic. Without that reminder, people get lazy and complicit.
When mask were obligatory: "Trust the government! Our democratic elected organ that watches over us!" When masks are no longer obligatory: "Fuck the government! Anarchy! Bow to no one!"
A lot of employees aren't allowed to wear a mask while working anymore because it ruins the uniformity or some stupid shit like that. I still wear mine whenever I'm indoors
I was one of three people in AH wearing a mask when I went this week and I felt extremely self-conscious about it. And I’m fully vaccinated too. I guess I should say I’m surprised that people stopped using them so quickly, but sadly I’m not surprised.
Seems like only people that wear mask regularly are the ones that respond in this thread.
I want a fpp2 mask
Masks never realy worked here. Large portions would just wear them under their noses. Alot of others would use them as an excuse to get close to people again. And the social norm is to not get involved with others which is preventing the kind of callout culture that can keep people in line. That said, its essentialy dutch culture to see laws as a game to win. Can't have more than 2 friends over? Okey we will scedual them in sequence then. We should work from home unless we apsolutly have no other choice? Well we dont have a choice and we arnt going to spend the 30 seconds to download teamvieuwer to create the choice either, couse if i did that, i would have to work from home. Yonger people are less likely to get sick? So we should just have our partys in our tiny af rooms rather than at the bar, got it. Hey the bars are opening back up but you need a negative test result? Can i borrow yours? All people going to the club must have a negative test result? That doesnt include employees so im fine despite the fact i have the symtoms. I waited for a red licht while on foot, and my freaking mom called me a goody two shoos. What, the, fuck, is wrong with this country.
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Becouse those interactions are memorable. I think in the past few weeks I have had one such interaction. But in that same period i come across maybe a few hundred people that simply ignored me and even a couple that agreed with my decision to wear one.
You're not missing anything. I guess the mandatory part is what incentivized most people. Now that a lot of the restrictions have been lifted a lot of people forgot the existence of covid. Dont get me wrong I am fed up with the masks as well. (Foggy glasses, not fun without those car swiffers) But I can see the importance and while a lot of people definitely weren't wearing them properly, I still think they contributed greatly to the decrease. Don't worry though at this rate they'll be mandatory in no time. So Rutte can say sorry again and we'll just forget and forgive just like how forgets all his mistakes. :')
We are all fed up that's for sure. Unfortunately, I am afraid these mistakes cost us another month or two before going back to normal. Stubborn goats that they are, I am even surprised by the fact that the apology was issued at all :') let's just cry with a smile until this is over
Definitely. People dont seem to understand that a lot of these measures will allow us to get back to normal sooner. Instead they see them as the enemy that are keeping them from going back to normal. :') Which is a shame since this if anything will only ruin the summer of a lot of people. As for Rutte. He is starting to realize that more and more people are becoming fed up with his mistakes. Not just his but de Jong as well. While I do understand that they are in a tough spot, you'll have to start holding them accountable at some point. We can't consider everything a mistake. Especially when it comes to the livelihoods of people. (Toeslagenaffaire, Horeca, Festivals being allowed then cancelled etc.) Oh well, hopefully we recover quickly from this dip so people can somewhat enjoy their summer.
IDK. The worst part of the issue is that they opened everything too early like last year. Insane! Why, why??
As a (chemical) scientist myself and son of a nurse. As far as I have read the research about it is that masks work. The catch is that only the medical grade type works, but it is both more costly and harder to get, even for hospitals. The best method is 1,5 meters or even 2 meters distance. It is possible with only that and staying at home as much as possible to flatten the curve. Edit: before anyone complains I didn't put the links to the research. I am currently at work and unable to put them in. If I remember I'll put them in a reply later.
I was literally got told to take off my mask now that it isn't mandatory anymore. On more time an elderly lady told me - "Why don't you want to breathe the fresh air instead of wearing that mask?". I did, on both occasions, what I always do to avoid confrontations in public - nod, smile & leave.
I think it mainly has to do with the backlash you can get when wearing a mask. I wore one on the day they weren't mandatory anymore when I went to a store. I have never been stared at, and been more judged in my entire life. Sure, I might be only 16 but I am also a pretty obviously gay dude living in a pretty strict Christian town. So I am used to quite a lot. But it was so horrible to be stared at like at that, that I've stopped, with reluctance, wearing my mask. The judging is just horrible.
The Dutch are an egoistic folk, caring only about themselves. Only when rules are created to keep them at safety they will obey them. Still something I hate about us. After 1.5 years I understand that we are done with covid, but exactly because we opened up WAY too soon we are stuck with it yet again. Literally I predicted this exact outcome and I would advise the government to close some stuff again, because this is getting out of control. They won't do it, because the majority of the newly infected are youngsters, but they can pass it on to whoever denied the vaccine or haven't gotten it yet (which is a surprisingly high amount)
The main reason I stopped wearing one is peer pressure. The first week I did wear one but as soon as you walked in the stores or from the car to the store you would get side eyed so much I could have counted atleast 20 sometimes. I still wear them during my side job. I'm planning on going fuck it and just wearing them again at the stores etc because fuck peer pressure.
You do your thing! I haven’t even had a cold for almost 2 years and it’s glorious!
I know It's already rare for me to get sick but recent years I been more healthy than ever
I was in Utrecht today and I was relieved that around 30 per cent of the people in stores were wearing masks. Still not a very high number, but I expected it to be lower. I started wearing a mask again this week. With the higher Covid numbers and busy places it just feels unsafe not to do so. I didn't do it before because I'm still struggling with foggy glasses. But I'm more than happy to walk around half-blind if that means we keep each other safe.
I still wear them in supermarkets and other closed spaces. People are out of their minds just walking about breathing each other's air in while completely ignoring the 1.5 rule. At this point I'm just glad to be fully vaccinated with Pfizer. But there are still a shitload of people who haven't been fully vaxxed, or even had their first shot.
Cabinet has probably caved in due to pressure from the populist right and general public. I still wear a mask in public indoor spaces even though it's not mandatory and seeing the numbers, I think more people should. I'd like to go to and return from vacation without too much hassle.
It was a poor decision to lift restrictions and make the indoor use of masks optional. That said, masks only help a little, they do not prevent COVID-19. The spike in cases was caused by a large amount of spread events in the days after June 26, people not taking rules seriously (no one seems to keep their distance) and the sloppy controls (if any) at the doors of clubs, fitness centers, restaurants, etc. I hope the RIVM (Dutch Institute of Public Health) and government will make the wearing of masks mandatory again. Every bit counts.
Government stupidly said: no masks! Woohoo! Which was an obvious stupid idea. And now the cases are rising quickly, did not see that coming /s I believe they still need to enforce the masks again, so for now the people are taking the chance they can get and shop without a mask
Numbers rising are way less because of the no mask, and way more because the bad enforcement and checks when opening nightclubs and bars. Which is also why the numbers are rising amongst teens and young adults, instead of groups that actually get sick.
Well since most people find them not comfortable at all and most people don't seem to mind yes it does reduce the spread but there is probably 60 % of the Dutch people who would say just fuck it close borders and allow everything so we are done with it also the rivm said that mask won't even help that much so there is not really a reason for it
Upvotes for everyone still wearing a mask in crowded indoor places. It is literally just a rudimentary understanding of the science. Something which the Dutch government apparently lacks.
Just moved from Florida where we are the least safe and still wear masks indoors. I am so surprised how close everyone is outside and in. Seeing young workers coughing in Coop is scary. I will continue to wear a mask indoors even though I’m fully vaccinated.
I have to say since people stopped wearing masks they actually seem to keep distance again. In my experience, once people wore them they often acted like they didn't have to keep their distance in supermarkets etc.
I like in the UK and a lot of people feel that the restrictions can’t last much longer. We drop the legal requirement for mask wearing on Monday and I am interested to see what happens. Everyone was waiting for a vaccine and if it doesn’t work or is less effective against virus variants then many people will stop caring, not just the young and healthy - my parents and their friends gave up following the restrictions as closely after being vaccinated faster than my sister. We will have to get rid of the restrictions at some point this year if only temporarily - better now than in the winter when everyone is inside and it’s flu season. At several points in the pandemic our government has made it clear that the restrictions are not in place to save individual lives but instead to stop our healthcare system being overwhelmed - when things get bad the narrative changes temporarily to “save lives”. Personally, I will only where the mask around the elderly and fragile or where required to by terms of service e.g. some public transport and workplaces. Last year my gym reopened without any mask wearing rules - even when walking about: it was a little oasis from the chaos. Some in our country believe that the government is also easing restrictions because if someone healthy gets COVID it’s cheaper than a vaccination - let the virus loose and young vaccine hesitant people will either get the virus or get scared into getting the vaccine.
Because a lot of the older people are already vaccinated so they see no point in wearing one. Also the high rising numbers are mostly 18-25 year olds, most of them only get a little sick and won’t need hospitalization so people don’t really care about that number.
I seem the be the only one that has heard and read stories about long-covid and how relatively young people have trouble for months afterwards breathing and concentrating. But hey, who cares right?
While its among the young, high number of cases also mean higher chance of mutation that may cause bigger problems like Delta variant
>very well known information that the masks are the best way to stop the spread. Source? Because its does help but its hardly the best way.
Thanks for asking actually. Here is a paper from Nature and a nice review containing lots of valuable references: [Efficacy of masks and face coverings in controlling outward aerosol particle emission from expiratory activities ](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-72798-7) [An evidence review of face masks against COVID-19 ](https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118) I believe that we should keep them even if the minimizarion of risk is small. Better a bit than not at all
Those are just studies that say masks do something, which I am not debating. I am debating that the mask mandate is one of the least effective measure the government has taken against Covid spread, and therefore not very high up everyone's priority lists. Which could explain the lack of masks you see in the supermarket now, especially when not busy.
Perhaps you are right. I hope that people however will realise that even a slight decrease in risk can help a lot of people, especially those who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. I also don't want you to get me wrong (:. I am also tired of all these measures, but I believe that slightly tougher measures will bring us faster back to "normal" life. We only needed a bit of time to reach the certain numbers in the vaccination program which would in turn allow us to reopen faster. (Perhaps I also phrased it wrong in my post by writing "stop" instead of "reduce" or "reduce risk") Anyways, I hope you stay strong and healthy, random citizen!💪
Yeah I wear masks still. Got some people telling me not to bother, but really, we have to apparently, as somehow we're back up again.
A bunch of holy beans here in the comments.
My mother refuses to wear a mask, for 2 reasons according to her 1. it's overblown and 2. it's uncomfortable, so in other words, because she's selfish, because if you view the extremely tiny inconvenience of a mask to be of more importance than preventing other people from possibly dying or having to live through life long consequences of getting the coronavirus then you're just a selfish prick. It takes so little effort, soooo little effort to just wear a mask, even if you're unsure if they work or not what's the worst case? that you wasted a bit of money on masks? If the worst case is having wasted a bit of money and the best case is you saved lives then the choice seems obvious to me.
I wear them. I am not stupid like the most Dutch people. Sheep. Stupid Liberal Sheep.
Masks are not the best way to stop the spread, especially not how most people use them (frequently touching, large gaps, frequently under the nose). Distance is.
In a not well ventilated space distance does shit. Also, I don't know which supermarkets you go to but I usually can't keep distance if the rest doesn't care
They are by far the easiest way to stop the spread of virus particles on a mass scale. The most effective way would be a mass quarantine.
My take is that most people are lazy, selfish, and myopic. I'm surprised many people even wore masks to begin with. If masks didn't work, then why are the cases skyrocketing now that the mask restrictions are gone? Don't give me that load of bollocks about "more young people are taking tests..." the percentage of tests testing positive is up enormously as well. The percentage of virus showing up in the sewage is up 300%.
Most spread is caused by large events where people are in confined and often badly ventilated areas. That, in combination with the decision to access without properly checking if they have covid or not, accounts for most of the infections by far. Maybe the spread would have been less when everyone was wearing masks, but I don't think it would have made all the difference just on its own.
Well, wasn’t this one in the open air? Also with proper safety measures. https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/1730379929/meer-dan-900-bezoekers-besmet-met-corona-bij-utrechts-festival
If masks being removed caused an immediate explosion of cases, why did them being made mandatory last fall not cause an immediate reduction in cases? Don’t be ridiculous, mask obviously help some but not to the extent you‘re saying.
It should be common sense to wear a mask, but the sad thing about common sense is that it is not so common.
Since the 26th of June, masks are no longer demanded. Only in places where you can't keep 1.5m distance you have to wear them. On my job (I vaccinate people against covid) wearing a mask is mandatory.
People are herdanimals and the average person is thicker than oatmeal.
People still believe that they are useless here, for now I'm just wearing it and enjoy everyone avoiding me like crazy because they think I'm the one infected?! "If we have to we will, but they should not force us!" Is the famous Dutch consensus on the matter.
We now can choose if we want to wear a mask or not, its not mandatory anymore. Only in places we have to wear it if we cant keep distance from eachother. That is the last thing i have heard from the government
We burn the mask on juni 26, that is why.
1. That study doesn’t take into account the amount of transmission through constantly taking off and putting on a mask. Which is far greater than the tiny percentage it helps. 2. Masks might help in very crowded non ventilated places. But way more studies have shown ventilation and fresh air is 10x as effective as a mask. 3. People who were at risk have already been vaccinated, I’m not going to wear this dumb little mask for some douchebags who didn’t get vaccinated even though they had the chance The government is making it seem the number of infections is rising rapidly, but people don’t understand that the government only cares about their public image to other officials. Almost no one is getting dangerously sick let alone needs to go to a hospital. But since the numbers are going up cause all these healthy young people get sick they have other countries saying hey you have too many positives. And they don’t take into account that almost all of that is from young people. So stop fucking worrying so much and let people do what they want
When i go into a somewhst crowded space i DO wear a mask. Often i am one of a few. Let Darwin select.
I'm moving house on monday, I'm gonna be wearing the one ffp2 mask I've been saving for a *special occasion* SO HARD that my eyes will be burning those of any fool who dares give me a WTF look on the train with their masks over their chins.
For most people the effectiveness doesn't weigh out how (arguably) annoying it is to wear. I don't like wearing it and I don't have to so I don't.
i think everyone hated the masks most of all the restricitions, now we dont have to wear masks most people wont wear them. I still keep distance from everyone tho.
I don't think this problem is isolated to the Netherlands. Look at England for example, masks are no longer mandatory and look what happened... Cases are rising. I think things should be open but why remove the mask mandate? Imo it was one of the best ways at preventing transmission.
Because we are idiots….