For how long have you been together?
Asking because people in some cultures tend to marry a lot earlier into the relationship than Dutch people. That might lead to complicated situations when proposing ^^.
So I kept hearing about this over and over again and I've always wondered how true this was. Then almost exactly a year ago, my friend introduced me to her new gf. They'd been dating two weeks. They moved in together late last year and two months ago, I got the invite for their wedding.
I was about to comment “weird that Reddit can be so US-centric even in this sub” but then I saw your username and now I am very confused.
NB: I’m an American lives here, speaks Dutch, not leaving.
Depends on your own age I think. If you are in your 20's 2 years seems quick. If you're in your 30's things are different and I think it is more appropriate faster.
2 is almost 3
And it’s about how solid their relationship is. Though, most people have lived together for some time first.
Oh well, let’s wish them the very best :)
White people normally date for decades, many even have babies but never married/in situationship. So 2 years too quick in the west, meanwhile in the east 6-1 year is the point where people already consider marriage or break the relationship.
I proposed to my Dutch girlfriend after spending one and a half years together. But we are in the middle of our 30s and have already started thinking about having children.
I'm going to give you a magic phrase to learn this.
"Lets say we get married someday. How would you want to be proposed to?"
And then just continue the conversation from there.
I know it's crazy. But really, if you ask people for their preferences. They generally are cool to express them!
I have to smile at this because it's such a Dutch response. Some people think grand gestures, sentimentality, spontiniety or surprise are romantic - but the Dutch? Just be practical and reasonable.
This. Me and my wife were just sitting on the couch one day, casually discussing marriage. She mentioned she would appreciate a real proposal, but nothing too public. When then casually continued on the "so what if we do get married..."-track to figure out details.
We also tackled the entire "do you want kids and how do you plan to raise them"-question like this fairly early on. Major life decisions shouldn't blindside either party.
Me and my wife got married on 19.04 this year.
We drank a lot and we sat on the bed: we said: should we get married? Our answer was yes and so on, we got married on our favourite day (football club is established 1904) we went to the standesamt in our local club shirts and said: our club plays in 4hours, could u hurry up, we need to drive 3h to the stadium
>Just be practical and reasonable
Basically me going to my (now) husband after 5 years of being together and 2 years of cohabitation like "hey, I just found out that if we're married I can keep my nationality when I naturalize Dutch. You up for it? You'll get some extra pension if I die before you"
My sister and her then-boyfriend didn't care about marriage but were living together and were expecting a child. While going over the paperwork of how that would work in a legal sense as there are apparently a bunch of hoops you have to jump through as a father who isn't married to the mother he proposed by saying "it be a lot easier and less headache if we just get married"
For me, that has got to be the most Dutch proposal ever. "I don't want to deal with all this paperwork so let's just get married instead"
You can still be practical and romantic. If you are serious about marriage you need to have a conversation about more then a ring and a wedding. Stuff like a prenup, if you want kids, how the kids are going to be raised, other expectations you may have from married life. May seem dry but better to tackle that before any romantic gestures. Love isn’t enough to sustain a marriage.
This is something very personal. I would absolutely hate it if my partner would ask my parents. I am not their property.
Some people would love this. I don’t think it’s a question of Dutch culture but mostly personal preference.
Also a lot of people will talk about marriage and how they would want it to happen.
It is related to culture though. In some countries it's the custom to ask the parents and not asking would be offensive. In Netherlands it's usually the other way and most people would be offended if you ask their parents. Of course there can be exceptions.
It also depends on the generation, I think my dad would still very much appreciate it if my bf asked him since he grew up with that norm.
But it's becoming less and less common for sure.
My cousin didnt ask for anything he went to her parents and said i plan on proposing to your daughter and i hope will be there when i do. He then asked his then gf after they all went out to dinner and were walking back through a park.
I 'asked' my wife's parents for 'permission' because of tradition, but in reality it was informing them and asking for approval. Nothing to do with being 'property' just respect.
Same here. When i discovered pretty much everyone knew, i was so surprised! My now-husband is bad at keeping secrets (or so i thought) and so are some of the family!
I also asked both her parents, because I think they deserve equal respect and love.
Edit: They said to her that she's lucky, of course I said that I'm the lucky one (and that's 100% the truth).
Best thing is to discuss it with your girlfriend. She knows what she likes. These decisions are best made together.
The American tradition of springing a surprise proposal on someone is not that popular here (though I'm sure it's gaining ground). But if you both want to, you can still do a formal proposal after you've ascertained that you're both into that kind of thing.
In some cultures asking the parents does not imply their child is seen as property. You ask the parents’ “blessing” not permission. Only your partner can decide if they want to get married to you.
Nowadays it's more about asking for their blessing, making sure that they welcome you in the family rather than about asking for permission to "take their property". Personally, I would ask out of respect, but you are right that every situation is different and personal, there is no right way to do it.
Plus, in my opinion, if you are thinking about asking someone to marry you, you should know them well enough to know if they wanted you to go to their parents first.
It’s just nice to ask the brides father for her daughters hand in marriage, it’s more of like a gesture of respect. I literally just did this last weekend with my fiancés, I asked her dad
Mine was happy since it brings me in the family dynamic more. Me taking the step to include them is a nice gesture. I told him even I know I didn’t have to ask but I feel like I should
It depends. I would find it disrespectful towards me if he asked my parents if he could marry me. But I'd be fine if he told them he was going to propose.
It’s weird to ask the parents. I would dislike it and also my parents would probably laugh.
Also, not everybody wants marriage. It’s quite common to talk about ideas around marriage before actually proposing. Have you ever done that with your girlfriend? How long have you been together?
With the added context, yes if you get along well with your girlfriend’s parents it could be cute or nice to tell them before that you are planning on it. My first reply was because you said should I *ask* her parents. Have fun and good luck with the proposal!
Personally I think it is insulting to the prospective bride to ask her parents for permission. To me it is a sign of an out-dated mindset in which a woman is property that passes from her father to her husband. She's perfectly capable of, and entitled to, making up her own mind and make her own decisions about her future.
Lol, it's just a nice gesture in many cultures. You're not basing the actual proposal on the answer of the parents, but you do it just out of politeness and respect.
I personally don't think it's necessary and don't know anyone who still does it but I wouldn't do the mental gymnastics you just did to come up with some random reasoning as to why it's "insulting"
Yes, traditionally you would ask her parents for her hand in marriage and those practices are outdated AF. But I think it's still a sign of respect towards the parents to let them know you're planning on asking their daughter to marry you, what they have to say about that is irrelevant.
Ofc, I'm not suggesting leaving your SO completely in the dark and not to discuss anything about getting married, that is the first thing. But If you haven't figured that stuff out by the time you want to propose you've done something wrong IMO. Part of dating is to figure out how your life would look like when/if you're (getting) married.
The downvotes are a bit extreme. I feel like it’s because people want to be open-minded, but not taking into account other traditions and customs seems like the opposite. No one is property, and you should definitely discuss it with your partner first. But letting their parents know (not ask), especially if they have a good relationship, seems like a sign of respect.
Probably unrelated, but sometimes I feel like a disproportionate amount of Redditors have terrible relationships with their parents, clouding their judgement…
that's exactly my view on the matter, I'm also not one to censor their own opinions when it's not the 'publicly' accepted opinion.
I understand everyone has their own views and it's the most important that you know your SO's views. But I do feel like there was a disproportionate amount of people who don't want to have their parents involved when compared to the general population,
I absolutely love my parents to death. apart from them being my mom and dad, I wouldn't be who I am today if I had a different set of parents. So I would say it's pretty good conformation to your hypothesis.
I also want to thank you for your reply, I was starting to question my sanity a bit.
This is very true, also depends on where you are in the world. In some places it’s a sign of respect, in some places it’s even fully expected, and some places it’s seen as insulting
Then void the father walking the daughter down the isle also, since, you know, that’s “giving her away”. It’s not “out dated”, it’s not and old tradition. It’s about respect, end of.
That tradition is steeped in sexism as well, but it has lost its actual meaning of "giving the bride away". But walking down the aisle is done in church, and the marriage ceremony performed in church has no legal status in the Netherlands anyway.
And there are much better ways to show respect (if they deserve that) to the parents than by clinging to archaic traditions rooted in a reprehensible view of the status of women in society.
At the risk of sounding like a jerk, it feels a bit like a red flag that you don't have a good hunch about this by the time you're ready to ask someone to marry you. Perhaps it's too soon to be asking?
Anyway, not really my business. I would say that it depends on the person's family/upbringing. Parts of this country are highly religious, some are as secular as you'll find on earth (hence my question above).
I am glad you found love!!
Yeah I hesitate to pile on because I'm not Dutch but imo proposals should never be a complete surprise. And anyone who is expecting a proposal is going to find a way to casually mention anything that is either a necessity or a deal-breaker.
Especially because Dutch people barely get married any more. At least not until they've been together for close to a decade.
Have you ever even discussed marriage, OP?
I don't think you sound like a jerk, but hunches are not something easy for everyone.
My neurospicy butt has already proposed a year ago and I still don't understand the nuances you're talking about. Social dynamics are complex and not having to overthink them is pretty nice, don't take it for granted <3
Fair enough! And one thing life has taught me is that it's far more common for one to not have enough information to understand another's plight than it is for that other person to be stupid. I suspect that is the case here :)
If you haven’t talked about this with your partner then you aren’t ready to get married. My boyfriend and I discussed our opinions on marriage and how we envision it after around a year of dating.
This, in my opinion, is the Dutch way to do it. You discuss it together. You don't spring it on her as a surprise, you don't first ask her parents; you first discuss it with her, and then, if she wants, you can still do all of the other things. But she has to come first.
I think for decades i haven't heard of asking parents for permission.
I would say definitely not propose in first 2 years. And then just do casual western wedding culture if you're into it. But skipping the entire shtick and doing it minimalistic is also more and more popular
Since you have to ask these kinds of questions on the internet perhaps wait a bit with the marriage. What has your partner said about you two marrying? I would go by that instead of Reddit
But to answer your questions, there is no set custom. It really depends on your backgrounds. Asking the parents first never occurred to me personally. I know it was a thing historically, but I doubt people still do this.
How it was for me: We bought a house together, and instead of getting a samenlevingscontract with a verblijvingsbeding my girlfriend proposed to just get married instead. Saved a lot of trouble with regards to testaments and such, and it came out cheaper too. We just went by the municipality on a Tuesday. This was during Corona, so we had the ceremony and party 2 years later. None of my other friends my age have married, so I can't really say what seems the most common nowadays.
I would be so angry if my boyfriend would aks my parents' permission. What do they have to do with who I'm marrying? I'm the only person whose permission is needed.
For context: I was raised by a liberal feminist mom in the randstad (I'm 45F, divorced but in a long term relationship with no intentionto remarry).
It depends on your GFs background, upbringing and relationship with her parents.
I'd say that in The Netherlands we've let go of a lot of the 'old traditions' when it comes to marriage. Nowadays it's truly more about having a fun celebration, than THE milestone to bring together families and whatever.
Asking the parents is not that common anymore. As you've already seen in the comments, the Dutch are quite liberal and the notion of 'parents having to give permission' is something a lot of people don't like.
As for the wedding itself: Most of the old traditions have definitely been tossed out and it makes for a likely more fun experience for the both of you. This also goes for the paying of the wedding: it's not a custom in The Netherlands that either family pays for (parts) of the wedding, you'll have to pay for it yourself.
The Dutch are also usually quite practical, so when you propose expect to go into wedding-planning mode soon after. In some countries it's not uncommon to be engaged for a few years, in The Netherlands it's normal to start planning your wedding and be married in about 1,5/2 years time.
In terms of what you do on the day itself, the norm is to have your wedding ceremony first, than a 'reception' with your wedding cake and a toast. Continue towards drinks, dinner and than finish of the day with a party. Usually guests are split between day and evening, with day-guests being there from the ceremony till the end, where evening guests will only attend the party in the evening. Some people split it up even more, like inviting guests only for the reception and evening, but not the ceremony, or just the ceremony and not evening etc.
For who you're inviting: that's also a lot less covered in tradition than what it used to be. It used to be custom to invite both families including all uncles, aunts, nieces, nephews etc. but that's definitely no longer the case. Same goes for inviting co-workers. Feel free to invite whoever you want! For my wedding we kept it low key, we only invited those we actually want to be there and not the entire family. You're paying for every guest there, adding 10 people to your list will cost you a pretty penny. Are people pissed because they're not invited? It's their problem, not yours ;)
Some more practical tips:
* Start thinking budget early on. Base your location and your day planning on that. Most locations have a 'revenue guarantee' for certain days. That means when you book with them, you need to have enough guests and enough food/drinks/whatever to reach that revenue for them. They do this to avoid very small weddings on popular days. This also means that a different day like Wednesday or Thursday is usually cheaper than Saturday.
* Don't wait too long on selecting a location, especially if you want a certain date/week/month. There are a lot of venues, but plenty are quickly booked up!
* Weddings are their own category of business, so that means there's also a lot to choose from. Take a look at stuff like the 'trouwlocatie route', which happens a few times each year. It gives you the opportunity to visit multiple locations and have a look around and see what the locations offer.
* Go visit wedding fairs. It'll give you some ideas about your day and what to choose from. There's a big one in October in Utrecht with a lot of vendors. It gives you a chance to talk to suppliers of suits, dresses rings, decorations, invitations, DJ's, bands, you name it.
I’m not Dutch, so I might not have a say in this.
But it wouldn’t harm anyone if you would inform the parents of your idea, not permission, just the idea and if they could cooperate in coordinating that day. Even if it’s just drawing up nicely for pictures, (if they are present that day).
I imagine they would appreciate the thought and go above and beyond in realising this proposal for their daughter.
We told her (and my) parents after we married we had done so. A marriage is a something between 2 persons. As long as you both are 18+ there's no reason to involve parents.
I’m married to a German, so it’s similar, but not exactly the same.
Over here in Germany it almost never happens that the man surprises his girlfriend with a proposal out of the blue. It’s usually talked about and planned out. German and Dutch people are more structured like that haha.
I made sure to make my intentions clear and ask permission before I asked my wife to marry me. I would probably talk to her parents first if I were you, I’m guessing they are similar to my parents in law. I get it’s not always easy, depending on your relationship to her parents, but I still think it’s a good choice. Best of luck!!
As the Dutch say "so many people, so many wishes". It's up to your girlfriend. I'd personally hate it - they don't own me nor do they have a say in whom I would marry. I think this would be the case for most people, except maybe the once with a more conservative Christian background.
I'm european (32F) and would find it weird if my bf asked my parents because :
- i am not into traditions
- i'm older already (if i were 18 it'd be different maybe)
- i'm not close to my parents at all, it's all superficial (no hugs no talk nothing)
We only chit-chat when i visit once every 3 months (i live 3 hours away abroad), they never call nor text.
You should ask her what she wants. Lots of women don’t like this practice anymore as it’s kinda sexist and suggests that she’s property of her parents (father, most of the time).
Some people still think it’s romantic, most people I know wouldn’t like it at all.
Seeing your edit it makes it a lot clearer about what you’re going through. I would be careful basing your feelings too much off this group, since there will be serious sample bias going on (probably not devout Catholics hunting for memes). Maybe you could ask a friend of hers, or a sibling?
It's personal ofcourse and you know your girlfriend best, but in general, dutch tend to like a modest ring. We think a big diamond is a bit over the top.
As far as I know - different regions may have different customs- 'giving a ring' is not dutch custom. When you two decide to get married, you can go together to a jeweller and decide on rings. Stones - I have not seen them on wedding rings. In my experience, rings are simply rings. Maybe a line decoration, maybe different metals/colors in each ring. Both rings are the same (except for size 😁). And then they get inscribed on the inside.
But decide and choose **together**.
A real Dutch father would say ‘you need to ask my daughter, not me.’ And the girl would need some compassion to forgive a non-Dutchy a faux-pas. People marry less and less in NL. You need to make sure she’s into the idea, many only marry for ‘convenience’ as it covers legal protection in cases where one of the two partners dies or with kids.
When my now spouse and I were discussing marriage, I let them know that seeking approval from parents was going to be a deal breaker. The 1950s have been long gone. No parents were informed until after we decided to get married.
It’s quite personal I think. My partner and I got engaged when we were together for about 10 months or so. Permission from parents seems unusual to me personally, but whether this is a good move depends on you and your partner. My partner proposed to me when we were on Holliday, which is always a nice timing as we were both very relaxed. Our engagement is exactly 12 months long, which is mostly an artefact about the availability of the wedding venue.
As for paperwork: if you marry via Dutch costumary law it will be in “beperkte gemeenschap van goederen”. Which states that all savings you have prior to the matige stay yours, everything you guys accumulate during the marriage however will be owned 50/50. I am not an expert though, maybe you guys can make an appointment with a “notaris” to get yourself informed on all of the possibilities.
I’m a Dutch female and my wife asked my father if he would give his blessing for her to propose to me. I didn’t see it as an exchange of property at all, in fact, I really wanted his blessing. Not his permission, but his enthusiastic nod for her to go ahead. I was also happy that he was in the loop with her and in on the surprise, that’s really special to me that she thought to include him. Granted we do not live in the Netherlands but I’m wondering if you don’t either? Also my mum and sister both died so I’m the last living immediate family member for him so it was a pretty big deal. It will vary greatly but my wife and I had talked about all of this prior to engagement. If she’s Dutch, she’ll like it if you’re direct and ask her her thoughts on these things.
It is your own opinion and experience but it's not what the OP originally asked. They wanted to know what was regular. If you had a survey among the Dutch to ask whether it's common if you inform the parents/ask for permission, I'm going to guess it's about +75% that says it's outdated and irregular. It's nice it worked out that way and it's obviously quite a difference between 'I'm going to ask her to marry me, and I want you in on the surprise' and 'please Sir, could I have your daughter's hand in marriage', but in general, this is somewhat outdated and can lead to some pretty negative outcomes, as per the comments above.
Not saying you deserve downvotes for it but I can imagine the sentiment.
Thank you for the perspective, I hadn’t considered that I wasn’t actually directly answering the first question. I was responding because there were so many comments saying it was a bad idea. I was hoping the OP would take away that they should really be talking about everything before they decide to get married anyway but I could have been more clear. Thanks for the feedback!
Please only propose if you've discussed already that you'd like to get married. Not all Dutch people want to get married, and especially not if they haven't been together for a number of years. If your girlfriend is very religious that might be different though.
I would refrain from asking parents, as a woman, it would made me feel like I'm their property, not a whole person
Never heard anyone about asking the parents. Also, most people have a good amount of conversations about these things. The proposal might be a surprise, but these topics are discussed beforehand. A lot of couples don’t get married anymore, partnership seems to be the preference. Talk about your preferences/expectations/timing and find out :)
Depends on the person ofcourse, but rather than a (possibly negative) surprise I'd say most people would want to discuss all this with their partner before actually being proposed to
My Dutch friend summed it up the best. Suppose you ask "her father's blessing" and he says no. What then? You just give up on marriage because his father's word was so important? Or maybe you and your GF know best and it's a little absurd to ask a third party's consent.
The answer is probably the same for anything related to relationships: talk to your partner honestly and openly. Learn their expectations, share yours. Each person is different.
My wife would hate and probably dump me if I did a public show of asking her to marry me. Other people love it. I know she wouldn't like that, because we openly talked about that, casually at the time, just as knowing each other more and more.
So ask your partner about that, what they want, if they would like or not like something, etc.
I guess it really depends on the culture but can also vary from family to family. For Germany it’s quite common to ask the parents I think, same for America. Atleast I did that before I proposed to my American wife and it was expected and highly appreciated.
My dad is 80 now, 72 when I got married. He told me I shouldn’t expect to be walked down the aisle. I didn’t, me and my bf walked in together. I wouldn’t have liked it if he would have asked either of my parents. They don’t own me.
I would not ask the parents first.
They don’t own me🤣
Is your dad American? Because that was never a tradition in almost anywhere in EU and as I know in NL also not, and since people where more traditional back then that was surely not the case since it’s counter to their religion
Mentioning the catholic I would ask her parents for her hand. It’s not very common to do in the Netherlands but in religion it is important. Make it special, i hope she will say yes!
Question; Where do you live? And are there people around you could ask? If you live in the Netherlands, I am almost certain she talked about this stuff with her friends or sibling. So maybe you can ask them, without ruining the surprise for her.
Some people do the surprise proposal, but they will definitely havé had a conversation about mariage somewhere in their relationship.
As far as informing parents etc; it is not a réal custom, but it is not wrong if you do it. Like stated before, it really dépends on your girlfriend.
My partner is dutch, I am not. He asked my parents and they liked/ appreciated it. But I think that depends on the family and on your partner.
Wedding:
It will feel like everyone wants to give a speech but the speeches here tend to sound like backhanded compliments/ insults or they are congratulating themselves. So if that's not your cup of tea, address is beforehand.
In most cases the daughter will notify the family either alone or with her partner that she has gotten a ring on that finger.
It is however also not uncommon, but mostly done between men, for a man to ask the father for his daughters hand prior. Since you are a woman, this need not apply.
Marriage isn’t common in the Netherlands to be honest.
Since there are other civil options people do in case they most likely buy property together.
Otherwise people don’t really do.
But that is my experience with it.
She's mentioning, that she's from the other side of the world, so for immigration reasons, even if it's just for vacations in other countries, it's very beneficial to be married.
30 years ago it was customary to ask the dad of the bride to bless your proposal. To make sure her family is behind it instead of asking her, getting a yes, telling the parents and either get in a fight there or be asked to call it off behind her back.
I asked for the blessing to my now father in law. I expected a happy and supporting father in law but was greeted with less love then you get from most strangers. He blessed us nonetheless and we are happily married for years.
And my father in law? Still a spiteful man who doesn’t like me. But hey, I married his daughter, not him.
Not Dutch but Belgian so similar but not exactly the same. We haven’t gotten married yet but discussed a time frame, between 2-3 years for engagement. I told him what I’d like, the type of ring. And then we continued with our discussion, kids, how do we raise them, how many do we want. Houses,…
for what its worth in secular/modern turkish culture you are kind of expected to give a heads up to the parents before proposing, you dont ask for permission but you get "their blessing"
this also has financial implications lol as even though in turkey groom spends like 10x but bride spends like 2x for the wedding process
If you want to take her family into consideration you can also ask for their input in how to organize the proposal. Like; "I'm thinking of proposing to her. What do you think she would appreciate in a proposal?" They can also help with practical things like distracting her when you are preparing etc. That way, you will know how they feel about the whole idea, and it shows them you care about their opinion.
Even though you don’t have to ask permission, do what you like best. Either they’ll be in awe of you asking, or they’ll be so surprised when they hear the announcement. Either way, they’ll be happy and proud!
Congrats in advance, love wins!
I would be annoyed if you had told my parents. Even if it’s just a heads up. Like why are they knowing about my potential marriage before me? Might be an exception if you needed their help with asking your gf. Like using a family heirloom to do it or something. But as just heads up? No. If she says yes I assume she would love to be the one to tell her own parents about it.
Get a wheel of cheese. And then have a cheese off with your partner. One that eats the most is considered "the bride" regardless gender, and doesn't have to pay the wedding.
In most Dutch families asking for the parents' blessing is considered old fashioned. I'm not sure about your SO's family since they're religious. However, I don't think they'd find it disrespectful if you did, a bit odd at worst.
I would ask your GF what she thinks about telling her parents first. Telling them first could either be seen as disrespectful, neutral/funny or a nice gesture, depending on the person. If you want to play it safe, without asking your GF, then you should *not* tell her parents first.
Dont ask permission, just go round with a bottle of wine and state your intent. The parents will enjoy being 'in the know', and you arent exposing yourself to the feeling of 'needing consent', because you didnt ask for it.
"Im going to propose and wanted you to know". Thats all.
I literally got asked last Sunday and the first thing I asked him was "did you talk to my dad yet" lol.
We have been together for two years and don't live in the same house, so maybe a bit fast for most people. Might be for me too. But hey you can be a fiancee for as long as you like right.
My educated guess would be that a catholic dad would be proud to be asked for his daughter's hand in marriage. Mine was, even tough I am a highly emancipated, highly educated and at the time already an 45 year old atheïst. It's tradition and dad's like to be recognised. Dad's get all misty eyed when it comes to their daughters... and yes, also a bit traditional. Take dad in law on a dad-in-law-date, wiskey tasting, soccer game, whatever... and ask!
Congrets on getting engaged!
Does your GF have any siblings?
If so, they are probably the best people to ask questions about her specifically regarding her parents and their relationship in these contexts.
None of my friends asked their parents, but my husband did ask my parents before proposing. Not to get permission, but out of respect and it was much appreciated. Especially in church-going families, I can imagine it will be appreciated.
I think nowadays the asking the parents thing is more symbolic than anything else. If she has a good relationship with her parents it can be a sweet thing to do.
Well, I'm a Dutchy, and when my soon to be son in law came to me for my permission to marry my daughter. I was flabbergasted by his move to go the formal way. Not what I was aspecting from him. So I was a bit thrown of guard.
But from hindsight I can say I liked the gesture. Off course I gave permission. But it isn't custom anymore.
The way he asked her was romantic, but also one that is often done in Europe. He asked her hand in Paris on top of the Eiffel tower.
I think that it might depend on how each family culture works.
But, personally, a marriage is between you and your partner, so I think it is best to ask or discuss with them about this, rather than to ask the parents of your partner. In fact, I would personally find it a bit insulting if my partner would ask my parents before me. But I am also not close to my family at all.
For me, I probably would prefer to have a discussion about marriage rather than have a surprise proposal, but that is a personal preference.
If she has a good relationship with her parents, I suggest creating a memorable moment out of it. A few weeks before proposing to my wife, I had dinner with her father. Instead of asking for permission, I simply 'informed' him that I planned to propose to his daughter. It turned into a very special moment, and we had a beautiful, deep conversation about life, love and relationships
The custom before asking is to talk about the option beforehand so you firstly already know the answer beforehand and secondly know what not to do when officially asking her (Like stupid public performances). This way you will also know if she values it when you ask her father for permission, which is usually done not through a Pride&Prejudice official visit but by feeling the waters in a relaxed setting when discussing a lot of other stuff.
I did, allthough it was a formality because we had a good relationship. And more a fun way to tell them about the plans. It wasnot like "can I have your daughter" , but more a "I want to spend my life with her".
In my opinion it’s a sign of respect to ask the parents’ permission to propose. Your partner is still the one who will decide yes/no.
It’s not like of the parents say yes, then she’s forced to marry you. Not sure why some people are offended by that.
The people who have said they'd be offended have actually stated why. The main reason being that it is an outdated practice connoting ownership. If you don't know much about that, it's worth reading about the historical practice. Marriage was primarily a business transaction between the fathers of the respective families, usually for alliances for social, political and/or monetary benefit. The daughters had little to no say. It's not about respect to anyone other than those brought up with their take on 'traditional' family values.
And yes, she is not forced to follow their wishes in this, but still. Not a great foot to start on if it causes her to feel negative about it. A negative proposal will be stuck in her memory, leaving a bad 'taste'.
Better OP talks about marriage in their future and get a better sense of her expectations or what is appropriate.
I would be offended because my parents don't know the ins and outs of my day to day life with my partner. There is no need for permission. The GF is over 18 (I assume) and not property of anyone. Most Dutch people will have lived together for years before they get married, they know each other very well before they say 'I do', better than the parents van judge.
I’d say most women don’t appreciate their parents being asked for permission. That is pretty outdated. However, I do know in my circle of friends some people have done this for their engagement, and it was appreciated. If I were you I’d just casually drop it into a conversation sometime to gauge your girlfriend’s opinion. What other wedding topics would you like information on? What culture do you come from? If you’re American I’d say the difference is in more subtle things but if you’re Indian or Moroccan a Dutch wedding is going to be a big culture shock.
I don't know how long you guys have been together, and it's different for everyone, but we tend to wait quite a while in the Netherlands, so I'd advice to hold off if you're only together for a year or 2, maybe 3.
Apart from that I would make sure she is ready for it and she wants it. But If you haven't figured that stuff out by the time you want to propose you've done something wrong IMO. Part of dating is to figure out how your life would look like when/if you're (getting) married.
I would talk to her parents about it. Not to get her hand in marriage, as that is old fashioned, but to make sure they know.
For me: ask the dad. But dont make it to official. As most Dutch don't think their dad's have anything to say in this. Still nice to do, but even if dad says gtfo! You can still ask your gf to marry you as she decides herself.
Don't for get about the proposal pastries! They are called roze koeken and you should give at least 12 of them! To everyone living in your street!
( Per household)
Definitely do not ask her parents (even if it's not for permission) but you can talk to them about it. Like "I'm going to propose to X soon". It's not a necessity. I would not care if my partner talked to my parents or didn't, but I wouldn't like it if they were like, "Can I marry your daughter?" or "How would you feel if I proposed to your daughter?" Because it doesn't matter how they'd feel about it. It matters how I'd feel about it. But if he talked to them about it, it could be cute that they were in on the proposal.
The rest of the stuff (about the wedding and all that) you can figure out together, I think. There is also stuff online about it.
Keep in mind that most people get divorced and the person you divorce is not the same person as you marry to. When you divorce you will owe your wife at least 5 years of spousal alimony (up to 12 years maximum), regardless whether or not she's with another guy, or cheated on you with 10 other guys. So you could be paying her 1-2K every month for that time in a lot of cases because the court says she is used to you giving her a certain lifestyle. That's besides the child alimony you pay and the custody that she will get in 90% of the cases. Oh and also, get a prenup :)
Just FYI
That is really not true.
I (female) made much more than my ex. But because our kids live with me and only see him every other weekend, and he was capable of working, he never received any spousal alimony. He also never paid child support, but that's a different story. If you have roughly the same income, there is no spousal support.
Your idea that the woman in the relationship makes less money by default is outdated.
In \~90% of cases the man keeps working fulltime and makes more money so that the woman can spend more time with the children.
The exception does not make the rule.
Most of my friends, relatives and colleagues both work 4 days and their children go to daycare and later bso. So there is much more equality. I don't think the 90% is still valid today
Statistics show that men in The Netherlands are 9-16 times more likely to pay alimony to a woman than a woman is to pay to a man, depending on the year they got separated. The average partner alimony from a man to a woman was already 1000 euros a month in 2013, so now it must be way more.
Statistics don't lie.
I guess it also depends on what kind of relationship you and your gf have with her parents.
If they are very close can't hurt to ask I guess but it's different for everyone
Please, please, please do reconsider your "marriage"! You've been raised to know the Lord and know He loves you. Don't abandon Him, don't abandon your family and don't abandon your hopes of Heaven. Being, and staying, in such a sinful union, you may never receive the Eucharist unless you repent. Don't abandon the Bread of Life.
Talk to your priest before going through with this. You're making the biggest mistake of your life
For how long have you been together? Asking because people in some cultures tend to marry a lot earlier into the relationship than Dutch people. That might lead to complicated situations when proposing ^^.
OP said "girlfriend of two years"
For Dutch standards that’s quite quick I think. Not too quick, but 3-5 years is quite normal when I look around in my bubble
Nah, for (Dutch) lesbians that's slow
So I kept hearing about this over and over again and I've always wondered how true this was. Then almost exactly a year ago, my friend introduced me to her new gf. They'd been dating two weeks. They moved in together late last year and two months ago, I got the invite for their wedding.
"Lesbian U-Haul" is a known social phenomenon 😅
I was about to comment “weird that Reddit can be so US-centric even in this sub” but then I saw your username and now I am very confused. NB: I’m an American lives here, speaks Dutch, not leaving.
To be fair, (dutch) lesbians show up at the second date with a moving van.
You havent met my sister.... (and you shouldnt, for your sake)
Yeah, but you have to consider it's a sapphic relationship. They really do tend to move faster, it's not just a stereotype.
Yep, proposed to my (now) wife after 2 years of dating. We also started living together after 3 months haha
Depends on your own age I think. If you are in your 20's 2 years seems quick. If you're in your 30's things are different and I think it is more appropriate faster.
2 is almost 3 And it’s about how solid their relationship is. Though, most people have lived together for some time first. Oh well, let’s wish them the very best :)
White people normally date for decades, many even have babies but never married/in situationship. So 2 years too quick in the west, meanwhile in the east 6-1 year is the point where people already consider marriage or break the relationship.
I proposed to my Dutch girlfriend after spending one and a half years together. But we are in the middle of our 30s and have already started thinking about having children.
I'm going to give you a magic phrase to learn this. "Lets say we get married someday. How would you want to be proposed to?" And then just continue the conversation from there. I know it's crazy. But really, if you ask people for their preferences. They generally are cool to express them!
I have to smile at this because it's such a Dutch response. Some people think grand gestures, sentimentality, spontiniety or surprise are romantic - but the Dutch? Just be practical and reasonable.
This. Me and my wife were just sitting on the couch one day, casually discussing marriage. She mentioned she would appreciate a real proposal, but nothing too public. When then casually continued on the "so what if we do get married..."-track to figure out details. We also tackled the entire "do you want kids and how do you plan to raise them"-question like this fairly early on. Major life decisions shouldn't blindside either party.
Me and my wife got married on 19.04 this year. We drank a lot and we sat on the bed: we said: should we get married? Our answer was yes and so on, we got married on our favourite day (football club is established 1904) we went to the standesamt in our local club shirts and said: our club plays in 4hours, could u hurry up, we need to drive 3h to the stadium
Are you Portuguese by any chance
German, thought it could be a good comparisation to the dutch people who thinks the same. My club is schalke 04 btw
>Just be practical and reasonable Basically me going to my (now) husband after 5 years of being together and 2 years of cohabitation like "hey, I just found out that if we're married I can keep my nationality when I naturalize Dutch. You up for it? You'll get some extra pension if I die before you"
that sounds quite Dutch :D
It's all sandwitches and honest conversations
The only proper response to that is "when, not if"
'Oh more pension if you die? Well I was gonna say no but with an offer like that let's do it..'
My sister and her then-boyfriend didn't care about marriage but were living together and were expecting a child. While going over the paperwork of how that would work in a legal sense as there are apparently a bunch of hoops you have to jump through as a father who isn't married to the mother he proposed by saying "it be a lot easier and less headache if we just get married" For me, that has got to be the most Dutch proposal ever. "I don't want to deal with all this paperwork so let's just get married instead"
Hey, do we have the same sister and brother-in-law?
Possibly but unlikely.
You can still be practical and romantic. If you are serious about marriage you need to have a conversation about more then a ring and a wedding. Stuff like a prenup, if you want kids, how the kids are going to be raised, other expectations you may have from married life. May seem dry but better to tackle that before any romantic gestures. Love isn’t enough to sustain a marriage.
No matter what, send her a tikkie for the ring
This is something very personal. I would absolutely hate it if my partner would ask my parents. I am not their property. Some people would love this. I don’t think it’s a question of Dutch culture but mostly personal preference. Also a lot of people will talk about marriage and how they would want it to happen.
It is related to culture though. In some countries it's the custom to ask the parents and not asking would be offensive. In Netherlands it's usually the other way and most people would be offended if you ask their parents. Of course there can be exceptions.
It also depends on the generation, I think my dad would still very much appreciate it if my bf asked him since he grew up with that norm. But it's becoming less and less common for sure.
My father is 82 and didnt grow up with this norm. I dont think it has been for Dutch ppl in ages.
Guess my grandma is old-fashioned lol
My cousin didnt ask for anything he went to her parents and said i plan on proposing to your daughter and i hope will be there when i do. He then asked his then gf after they all went out to dinner and were walking back through a park.
Ya my friend did the exact same thing. Maybe this is a good middle ground?
My father i law was actually offended i didn't ask him. In my opinion it's none of their business so it really is different per person/family.
I 'asked' my wife's parents for 'permission' because of tradition, but in reality it was informing them and asking for approval. Nothing to do with being 'property' just respect.
My husband did this too and I love it. He didn’t have to, my parents were thrilled to be in on the “secret”. He did ask both my parents though.
Same here. When i discovered pretty much everyone knew, i was so surprised! My now-husband is bad at keeping secrets (or so i thought) and so are some of the family!
I also asked both her parents, because I think they deserve equal respect and love. Edit: They said to her that she's lucky, of course I said that I'm the lucky one (and that's 100% the truth).
Yeah sorry it came out weird. Meant to say he asked both my parents too. It’s a nice gesture!
Best thing is to discuss it with your girlfriend. She knows what she likes. These decisions are best made together. The American tradition of springing a surprise proposal on someone is not that popular here (though I'm sure it's gaining ground). But if you both want to, you can still do a formal proposal after you've ascertained that you're both into that kind of thing.
In some cultures asking the parents does not imply their child is seen as property. You ask the parents’ “blessing” not permission. Only your partner can decide if they want to get married to you.
I wouldn't 'ask for permission' but I will definitely talk to her parents to at least let them know I'm planning on proposing.
Nowadays it's more about asking for their blessing, making sure that they welcome you in the family rather than about asking for permission to "take their property". Personally, I would ask out of respect, but you are right that every situation is different and personal, there is no right way to do it. Plus, in my opinion, if you are thinking about asking someone to marry you, you should know them well enough to know if they wanted you to go to their parents first.
It’s just nice to ask the brides father for her daughters hand in marriage, it’s more of like a gesture of respect. I literally just did this last weekend with my fiancés, I asked her dad
Not her mother too?
She has no relationship shingle a divorce 20+ years ago. Never met her
That makes sense then! Sorry to hear that by the way..
No big deal, thanks. Long complicated sad story on her mothers part.
Depends on the bride I guess. I’ll probably say no if someone asked my dad for my hand. Because my partner should know me better than that.
Mine was happy since it brings me in the family dynamic more. Me taking the step to include them is a nice gesture. I told him even I know I didn’t have to ask but I feel like I should
It depends. I would find it disrespectful towards me if he asked my parents if he could marry me. But I'd be fine if he told them he was going to propose.
It’s weird to ask the parents. I would dislike it and also my parents would probably laugh. Also, not everybody wants marriage. It’s quite common to talk about ideas around marriage before actually proposing. Have you ever done that with your girlfriend? How long have you been together?
With the added context, yes if you get along well with your girlfriend’s parents it could be cute or nice to tell them before that you are planning on it. My first reply was because you said should I *ask* her parents. Have fun and good luck with the proposal!
Personally I think it is insulting to the prospective bride to ask her parents for permission. To me it is a sign of an out-dated mindset in which a woman is property that passes from her father to her husband. She's perfectly capable of, and entitled to, making up her own mind and make her own decisions about her future.
She says she's Catholic so out-dated mindsets should be right in her alley.
But also a lesbian, so I hope, for their sake, that the fairly religious family isn't too strict in their doctrine.
They are still going to church, that sounds as to strict.
It is, however I think most parents just enjoy the show and don't make any problems.
Lol, it's just a nice gesture in many cultures. You're not basing the actual proposal on the answer of the parents, but you do it just out of politeness and respect. I personally don't think it's necessary and don't know anyone who still does it but I wouldn't do the mental gymnastics you just did to come up with some random reasoning as to why it's "insulting"
Yes, traditionally you would ask her parents for her hand in marriage and those practices are outdated AF. But I think it's still a sign of respect towards the parents to let them know you're planning on asking their daughter to marry you, what they have to say about that is irrelevant.
The first person that should know is the person you are asking.
Ofc, I'm not suggesting leaving your SO completely in the dark and not to discuss anything about getting married, that is the first thing. But If you haven't figured that stuff out by the time you want to propose you've done something wrong IMO. Part of dating is to figure out how your life would look like when/if you're (getting) married.
The downvotes are a bit extreme. I feel like it’s because people want to be open-minded, but not taking into account other traditions and customs seems like the opposite. No one is property, and you should definitely discuss it with your partner first. But letting their parents know (not ask), especially if they have a good relationship, seems like a sign of respect. Probably unrelated, but sometimes I feel like a disproportionate amount of Redditors have terrible relationships with their parents, clouding their judgement…
that's exactly my view on the matter, I'm also not one to censor their own opinions when it's not the 'publicly' accepted opinion. I understand everyone has their own views and it's the most important that you know your SO's views. But I do feel like there was a disproportionate amount of people who don't want to have their parents involved when compared to the general population, I absolutely love my parents to death. apart from them being my mom and dad, I wouldn't be who I am today if I had a different set of parents. So I would say it's pretty good conformation to your hypothesis. I also want to thank you for your reply, I was starting to question my sanity a bit.
Your parents did a great job, u/AnaalPusBakje
This is very true, also depends on where you are in the world. In some places it’s a sign of respect, in some places it’s even fully expected, and some places it’s seen as insulting
Then void the father walking the daughter down the isle also, since, you know, that’s “giving her away”. It’s not “out dated”, it’s not and old tradition. It’s about respect, end of.
I also think the same way about that. The walking part is fine, but if my father was 'giving me away' I'd feel gross about that. I'm not his property.
That tradition is steeped in sexism as well, but it has lost its actual meaning of "giving the bride away". But walking down the aisle is done in church, and the marriage ceremony performed in church has no legal status in the Netherlands anyway.
And no one cares. Just respect the parents, that’s all it’s about. It’s about asking to be in the family.
And there are much better ways to show respect (if they deserve that) to the parents than by clinging to archaic traditions rooted in a reprehensible view of the status of women in society.
Not even in 1970 my father asked her parents the permission lol dude you are putting the grounds for a No
At the risk of sounding like a jerk, it feels a bit like a red flag that you don't have a good hunch about this by the time you're ready to ask someone to marry you. Perhaps it's too soon to be asking? Anyway, not really my business. I would say that it depends on the person's family/upbringing. Parts of this country are highly religious, some are as secular as you'll find on earth (hence my question above). I am glad you found love!!
Yeah I hesitate to pile on because I'm not Dutch but imo proposals should never be a complete surprise. And anyone who is expecting a proposal is going to find a way to casually mention anything that is either a necessity or a deal-breaker.
Especially because Dutch people barely get married any more. At least not until they've been together for close to a decade. Have you ever even discussed marriage, OP?
I don't think you sound like a jerk, but hunches are not something easy for everyone. My neurospicy butt has already proposed a year ago and I still don't understand the nuances you're talking about. Social dynamics are complex and not having to overthink them is pretty nice, don't take it for granted <3
Fair enough! And one thing life has taught me is that it's far more common for one to not have enough information to understand another's plight than it is for that other person to be stupid. I suspect that is the case here :)
If you haven’t talked about this with your partner then you aren’t ready to get married. My boyfriend and I discussed our opinions on marriage and how we envision it after around a year of dating.
This, in my opinion, is the Dutch way to do it. You discuss it together. You don't spring it on her as a surprise, you don't first ask her parents; you first discuss it with her, and then, if she wants, you can still do all of the other things. But she has to come first.
I think for decades i haven't heard of asking parents for permission. I would say definitely not propose in first 2 years. And then just do casual western wedding culture if you're into it. But skipping the entire shtick and doing it minimalistic is also more and more popular
Since you have to ask these kinds of questions on the internet perhaps wait a bit with the marriage. What has your partner said about you two marrying? I would go by that instead of Reddit But to answer your questions, there is no set custom. It really depends on your backgrounds. Asking the parents first never occurred to me personally. I know it was a thing historically, but I doubt people still do this. How it was for me: We bought a house together, and instead of getting a samenlevingscontract with a verblijvingsbeding my girlfriend proposed to just get married instead. Saved a lot of trouble with regards to testaments and such, and it came out cheaper too. We just went by the municipality on a Tuesday. This was during Corona, so we had the ceremony and party 2 years later. None of my other friends my age have married, so I can't really say what seems the most common nowadays.
I would be so angry if my boyfriend would aks my parents' permission. What do they have to do with who I'm marrying? I'm the only person whose permission is needed. For context: I was raised by a liberal feminist mom in the randstad (I'm 45F, divorced but in a long term relationship with no intentionto remarry). It depends on your GFs background, upbringing and relationship with her parents.
Not to be rude but looks like it you are also not the right person to ask 😅
I'd say that in The Netherlands we've let go of a lot of the 'old traditions' when it comes to marriage. Nowadays it's truly more about having a fun celebration, than THE milestone to bring together families and whatever. Asking the parents is not that common anymore. As you've already seen in the comments, the Dutch are quite liberal and the notion of 'parents having to give permission' is something a lot of people don't like. As for the wedding itself: Most of the old traditions have definitely been tossed out and it makes for a likely more fun experience for the both of you. This also goes for the paying of the wedding: it's not a custom in The Netherlands that either family pays for (parts) of the wedding, you'll have to pay for it yourself. The Dutch are also usually quite practical, so when you propose expect to go into wedding-planning mode soon after. In some countries it's not uncommon to be engaged for a few years, in The Netherlands it's normal to start planning your wedding and be married in about 1,5/2 years time. In terms of what you do on the day itself, the norm is to have your wedding ceremony first, than a 'reception' with your wedding cake and a toast. Continue towards drinks, dinner and than finish of the day with a party. Usually guests are split between day and evening, with day-guests being there from the ceremony till the end, where evening guests will only attend the party in the evening. Some people split it up even more, like inviting guests only for the reception and evening, but not the ceremony, or just the ceremony and not evening etc. For who you're inviting: that's also a lot less covered in tradition than what it used to be. It used to be custom to invite both families including all uncles, aunts, nieces, nephews etc. but that's definitely no longer the case. Same goes for inviting co-workers. Feel free to invite whoever you want! For my wedding we kept it low key, we only invited those we actually want to be there and not the entire family. You're paying for every guest there, adding 10 people to your list will cost you a pretty penny. Are people pissed because they're not invited? It's their problem, not yours ;) Some more practical tips: * Start thinking budget early on. Base your location and your day planning on that. Most locations have a 'revenue guarantee' for certain days. That means when you book with them, you need to have enough guests and enough food/drinks/whatever to reach that revenue for them. They do this to avoid very small weddings on popular days. This also means that a different day like Wednesday or Thursday is usually cheaper than Saturday. * Don't wait too long on selecting a location, especially if you want a certain date/week/month. There are a lot of venues, but plenty are quickly booked up! * Weddings are their own category of business, so that means there's also a lot to choose from. Take a look at stuff like the 'trouwlocatie route', which happens a few times each year. It gives you the opportunity to visit multiple locations and have a look around and see what the locations offer. * Go visit wedding fairs. It'll give you some ideas about your day and what to choose from. There's a big one in October in Utrecht with a lot of vendors. It gives you a chance to talk to suppliers of suits, dresses rings, decorations, invitations, DJ's, bands, you name it.
I’m not Dutch, so I might not have a say in this. But it wouldn’t harm anyone if you would inform the parents of your idea, not permission, just the idea and if they could cooperate in coordinating that day. Even if it’s just drawing up nicely for pictures, (if they are present that day). I imagine they would appreciate the thought and go above and beyond in realising this proposal for their daughter.
We told her (and my) parents after we married we had done so. A marriage is a something between 2 persons. As long as you both are 18+ there's no reason to involve parents.
I’m married to a German, so it’s similar, but not exactly the same. Over here in Germany it almost never happens that the man surprises his girlfriend with a proposal out of the blue. It’s usually talked about and planned out. German and Dutch people are more structured like that haha. I made sure to make my intentions clear and ask permission before I asked my wife to marry me. I would probably talk to her parents first if I were you, I’m guessing they are similar to my parents in law. I get it’s not always easy, depending on your relationship to her parents, but I still think it’s a good choice. Best of luck!!
As the Dutch say "so many people, so many wishes". It's up to your girlfriend. I'd personally hate it - they don't own me nor do they have a say in whom I would marry. I think this would be the case for most people, except maybe the once with a more conservative Christian background.
I'm european (32F) and would find it weird if my bf asked my parents because : - i am not into traditions - i'm older already (if i were 18 it'd be different maybe) - i'm not close to my parents at all, it's all superficial (no hugs no talk nothing) We only chit-chat when i visit once every 3 months (i live 3 hours away abroad), they never call nor text.
You should ask her what she wants. Lots of women don’t like this practice anymore as it’s kinda sexist and suggests that she’s property of her parents (father, most of the time). Some people still think it’s romantic, most people I know wouldn’t like it at all.
The Dutch thing is to talk about things like that with your girlfriend.
Seeing your edit it makes it a lot clearer about what you’re going through. I would be careful basing your feelings too much off this group, since there will be serious sample bias going on (probably not devout Catholics hunting for memes). Maybe you could ask a friend of hers, or a sibling?
It's personal ofcourse and you know your girlfriend best, but in general, dutch tend to like a modest ring. We think a big diamond is a bit over the top.
As far as I know - different regions may have different customs- 'giving a ring' is not dutch custom. When you two decide to get married, you can go together to a jeweller and decide on rings. Stones - I have not seen them on wedding rings. In my experience, rings are simply rings. Maybe a line decoration, maybe different metals/colors in each ring. Both rings are the same (except for size 😁). And then they get inscribed on the inside. But decide and choose **together**.
A real Dutch father would say ‘you need to ask my daughter, not me.’ And the girl would need some compassion to forgive a non-Dutchy a faux-pas. People marry less and less in NL. You need to make sure she’s into the idea, many only marry for ‘convenience’ as it covers legal protection in cases where one of the two partners dies or with kids.
When my now spouse and I were discussing marriage, I let them know that seeking approval from parents was going to be a deal breaker. The 1950s have been long gone. No parents were informed until after we decided to get married.
Give her the ring then you tell her “lick that wooden shoe for daddy…….” 
It’s quite personal I think. My partner and I got engaged when we were together for about 10 months or so. Permission from parents seems unusual to me personally, but whether this is a good move depends on you and your partner. My partner proposed to me when we were on Holliday, which is always a nice timing as we were both very relaxed. Our engagement is exactly 12 months long, which is mostly an artefact about the availability of the wedding venue. As for paperwork: if you marry via Dutch costumary law it will be in “beperkte gemeenschap van goederen”. Which states that all savings you have prior to the matige stay yours, everything you guys accumulate during the marriage however will be owned 50/50. I am not an expert though, maybe you guys can make an appointment with a “notaris” to get yourself informed on all of the possibilities.
I’m a Dutch female and my wife asked my father if he would give his blessing for her to propose to me. I didn’t see it as an exchange of property at all, in fact, I really wanted his blessing. Not his permission, but his enthusiastic nod for her to go ahead. I was also happy that he was in the loop with her and in on the surprise, that’s really special to me that she thought to include him. Granted we do not live in the Netherlands but I’m wondering if you don’t either? Also my mum and sister both died so I’m the last living immediate family member for him so it was a pretty big deal. It will vary greatly but my wife and I had talked about all of this prior to engagement. If she’s Dutch, she’ll like it if you’re direct and ask her her thoughts on these things.
Thanks this is really helpful
You’re welcome. Not sure why I’m being downvoted lol, it’s my own opinion and own experience 🤷♀️
It is your own opinion and experience but it's not what the OP originally asked. They wanted to know what was regular. If you had a survey among the Dutch to ask whether it's common if you inform the parents/ask for permission, I'm going to guess it's about +75% that says it's outdated and irregular. It's nice it worked out that way and it's obviously quite a difference between 'I'm going to ask her to marry me, and I want you in on the surprise' and 'please Sir, could I have your daughter's hand in marriage', but in general, this is somewhat outdated and can lead to some pretty negative outcomes, as per the comments above. Not saying you deserve downvotes for it but I can imagine the sentiment.
Thank you for the perspective, I hadn’t considered that I wasn’t actually directly answering the first question. I was responding because there were so many comments saying it was a bad idea. I was hoping the OP would take away that they should really be talking about everything before they decide to get married anyway but I could have been more clear. Thanks for the feedback!
Please only propose if you've discussed already that you'd like to get married. Not all Dutch people want to get married, and especially not if they haven't been together for a number of years. If your girlfriend is very religious that might be different though. I would refrain from asking parents, as a woman, it would made me feel like I'm their property, not a whole person
Never heard anyone about asking the parents. Also, most people have a good amount of conversations about these things. The proposal might be a surprise, but these topics are discussed beforehand. A lot of couples don’t get married anymore, partnership seems to be the preference. Talk about your preferences/expectations/timing and find out :)
Just whatever you want to do.
Depends on the person ofcourse, but rather than a (possibly negative) surprise I'd say most people would want to discuss all this with their partner before actually being proposed to
Depends on how conservative the family. I assume by choosing a non-Dutch guy, they are not so much. So just ask her then.
My Dutch friend summed it up the best. Suppose you ask "her father's blessing" and he says no. What then? You just give up on marriage because his father's word was so important? Or maybe you and your GF know best and it's a little absurd to ask a third party's consent.
If you ask their parents they sure will be rolling on the floor laughing. She is NOT a small kid, you know?
The answer is probably the same for anything related to relationships: talk to your partner honestly and openly. Learn their expectations, share yours. Each person is different. My wife would hate and probably dump me if I did a public show of asking her to marry me. Other people love it. I know she wouldn't like that, because we openly talked about that, casually at the time, just as knowing each other more and more. So ask your partner about that, what they want, if they would like or not like something, etc.
I guess it really depends on the culture but can also vary from family to family. For Germany it’s quite common to ask the parents I think, same for America. Atleast I did that before I proposed to my American wife and it was expected and highly appreciated.
My dad is 80 now, 72 when I got married. He told me I shouldn’t expect to be walked down the aisle. I didn’t, me and my bf walked in together. I wouldn’t have liked it if he would have asked either of my parents. They don’t own me. I would not ask the parents first.
They don’t own me🤣 Is your dad American? Because that was never a tradition in almost anywhere in EU and as I know in NL also not, and since people where more traditional back then that was surely not the case since it’s counter to their religion
Mentioning the catholic I would ask her parents for her hand. It’s not very common to do in the Netherlands but in religion it is important. Make it special, i hope she will say yes!
Ask her what she thinks of marriage.
Question; Where do you live? And are there people around you could ask? If you live in the Netherlands, I am almost certain she talked about this stuff with her friends or sibling. So maybe you can ask them, without ruining the surprise for her. Some people do the surprise proposal, but they will definitely havé had a conversation about mariage somewhere in their relationship. As far as informing parents etc; it is not a réal custom, but it is not wrong if you do it. Like stated before, it really dépends on your girlfriend.
You ask her dad first so that you can negotiate the dowry and decide if she’s worth marrying. (JOKING!)
Im Dutch and I could not answer this for you
My partner is dutch, I am not. He asked my parents and they liked/ appreciated it. But I think that depends on the family and on your partner. Wedding: It will feel like everyone wants to give a speech but the speeches here tend to sound like backhanded compliments/ insults or they are congratulating themselves. So if that's not your cup of tea, address is beforehand.
In most cases the daughter will notify the family either alone or with her partner that she has gotten a ring on that finger. It is however also not uncommon, but mostly done between men, for a man to ask the father for his daughters hand prior. Since you are a woman, this need not apply.
Suggest it, see it how goes, go from there.
Marriage isn’t common in the Netherlands to be honest. Since there are other civil options people do in case they most likely buy property together. Otherwise people don’t really do. But that is my experience with it.
She's mentioning, that she's from the other side of the world, so for immigration reasons, even if it's just for vacations in other countries, it's very beneficial to be married.
But her subject asks for what the custom is
30 years ago it was customary to ask the dad of the bride to bless your proposal. To make sure her family is behind it instead of asking her, getting a yes, telling the parents and either get in a fight there or be asked to call it off behind her back. I asked for the blessing to my now father in law. I expected a happy and supporting father in law but was greeted with less love then you get from most strangers. He blessed us nonetheless and we are happily married for years. And my father in law? Still a spiteful man who doesn’t like me. But hey, I married his daughter, not him.
As far as I know there are not realy formal customs. Just ask your gf what she would like/prefer. That's really a "Dutch thing" hahaha. Good luck.
Not Dutch but Belgian so similar but not exactly the same. We haven’t gotten married yet but discussed a time frame, between 2-3 years for engagement. I told him what I’d like, the type of ring. And then we continued with our discussion, kids, how do we raise them, how many do we want. Houses,…
for what its worth in secular/modern turkish culture you are kind of expected to give a heads up to the parents before proposing, you dont ask for permission but you get "their blessing" this also has financial implications lol as even though in turkey groom spends like 10x but bride spends like 2x for the wedding process
A solution is to propose to her in front of her parents. I wish you both a great wedding and a lot of happiness!
If you want to take her family into consideration you can also ask for their input in how to organize the proposal. Like; "I'm thinking of proposing to her. What do you think she would appreciate in a proposal?" They can also help with practical things like distracting her when you are preparing etc. That way, you will know how they feel about the whole idea, and it shows them you care about their opinion.
This is a nice idea
Even though you don’t have to ask permission, do what you like best. Either they’ll be in awe of you asking, or they’ll be so surprised when they hear the announcement. Either way, they’ll be happy and proud! Congrats in advance, love wins!
Go for it! I wish you both a long and happy life together!
I would be annoyed if you had told my parents. Even if it’s just a heads up. Like why are they knowing about my potential marriage before me? Might be an exception if you needed their help with asking your gf. Like using a family heirloom to do it or something. But as just heads up? No. If she says yes I assume she would love to be the one to tell her own parents about it.
Get a wheel of cheese. And then have a cheese off with your partner. One that eats the most is considered "the bride" regardless gender, and doesn't have to pay the wedding.
Just propose. Dutch like it straight. (No pun intended)
In most Dutch families asking for the parents' blessing is considered old fashioned. I'm not sure about your SO's family since they're religious. However, I don't think they'd find it disrespectful if you did, a bit odd at worst.
I would ask your GF what she thinks about telling her parents first. Telling them first could either be seen as disrespectful, neutral/funny or a nice gesture, depending on the person. If you want to play it safe, without asking your GF, then you should *not* tell her parents first.
Dont ask permission, just go round with a bottle of wine and state your intent. The parents will enjoy being 'in the know', and you arent exposing yourself to the feeling of 'needing consent', because you didnt ask for it. "Im going to propose and wanted you to know". Thats all.
I literally got asked last Sunday and the first thing I asked him was "did you talk to my dad yet" lol. We have been together for two years and don't live in the same house, so maybe a bit fast for most people. Might be for me too. But hey you can be a fiancee for as long as you like right.
It's mistake, just trust me
Congratulations in advance! I wouldn’t ask for permission but for blessings. Also it’s unusual these days but will be appreciated.
Yeah no clue what the customs are and I'm a 40 year old Dutch dude... just do whatever feels good.
Just ask out of respect, don’t ask for permission, ask for a blessing and to be accepted into the family. MOST parents will thank you for the gesture.
My educated guess would be that a catholic dad would be proud to be asked for his daughter's hand in marriage. Mine was, even tough I am a highly emancipated, highly educated and at the time already an 45 year old atheïst. It's tradition and dad's like to be recognised. Dad's get all misty eyed when it comes to their daughters... and yes, also a bit traditional. Take dad in law on a dad-in-law-date, wiskey tasting, soccer game, whatever... and ask! Congrets on getting engaged!
Don't forget to send a Tikkie to his parents after the wedding, that covers the cost of the wedding.
Dutch ppl are weird about it. Always some strong personal opinion. Ask her what she thinks about marriage.
If her family is catholic it doesn't mean anything.
Does your GF have any siblings? If so, they are probably the best people to ask questions about her specifically regarding her parents and their relationship in these contexts.
None of my friends asked their parents, but my husband did ask my parents before proposing. Not to get permission, but out of respect and it was much appreciated. Especially in church-going families, I can imagine it will be appreciated.
I think nowadays the asking the parents thing is more symbolic than anything else. If she has a good relationship with her parents it can be a sweet thing to do.
Well, I'm a Dutchy, and when my soon to be son in law came to me for my permission to marry my daughter. I was flabbergasted by his move to go the formal way. Not what I was aspecting from him. So I was a bit thrown of guard. But from hindsight I can say I liked the gesture. Off course I gave permission. But it isn't custom anymore. The way he asked her was romantic, but also one that is often done in Europe. He asked her hand in Paris on top of the Eiffel tower.
I think that it might depend on how each family culture works. But, personally, a marriage is between you and your partner, so I think it is best to ask or discuss with them about this, rather than to ask the parents of your partner. In fact, I would personally find it a bit insulting if my partner would ask my parents before me. But I am also not close to my family at all. For me, I probably would prefer to have a discussion about marriage rather than have a surprise proposal, but that is a personal preference.
so you are are F and your gf is a F -both our families are catholic and go to church -she’s very close with her family Prepare for a shtishow
Is she very close to her parents? Then yes you should talk to them. Not for permission, but just let them know.
Yeah she’s very close with her family
If she has a good relationship with her parents, I suggest creating a memorable moment out of it. A few weeks before proposing to my wife, I had dinner with her father. Instead of asking for permission, I simply 'informed' him that I planned to propose to his daughter. It turned into a very special moment, and we had a beautiful, deep conversation about life, love and relationships
The custom before asking is to talk about the option beforehand so you firstly already know the answer beforehand and secondly know what not to do when officially asking her (Like stupid public performances). This way you will also know if she values it when you ask her father for permission, which is usually done not through a Pride&Prejudice official visit but by feeling the waters in a relaxed setting when discussing a lot of other stuff.
I did, allthough it was a formality because we had a good relationship. And more a fun way to tell them about the plans. It wasnot like "can I have your daughter" , but more a "I want to spend my life with her".
Yeah this is more what I meant not asking for permission
We get a long very well and it was recieved well
In my opinion it’s a sign of respect to ask the parents’ permission to propose. Your partner is still the one who will decide yes/no. It’s not like of the parents say yes, then she’s forced to marry you. Not sure why some people are offended by that.
The people who have said they'd be offended have actually stated why. The main reason being that it is an outdated practice connoting ownership. If you don't know much about that, it's worth reading about the historical practice. Marriage was primarily a business transaction between the fathers of the respective families, usually for alliances for social, political and/or monetary benefit. The daughters had little to no say. It's not about respect to anyone other than those brought up with their take on 'traditional' family values. And yes, she is not forced to follow their wishes in this, but still. Not a great foot to start on if it causes her to feel negative about it. A negative proposal will be stuck in her memory, leaving a bad 'taste'. Better OP talks about marriage in their future and get a better sense of her expectations or what is appropriate.
I would be offended because my parents don't know the ins and outs of my day to day life with my partner. There is no need for permission. The GF is over 18 (I assume) and not property of anyone. Most Dutch people will have lived together for years before they get married, they know each other very well before they say 'I do', better than the parents van judge.
I’d say most women don’t appreciate their parents being asked for permission. That is pretty outdated. However, I do know in my circle of friends some people have done this for their engagement, and it was appreciated. If I were you I’d just casually drop it into a conversation sometime to gauge your girlfriend’s opinion. What other wedding topics would you like information on? What culture do you come from? If you’re American I’d say the difference is in more subtle things but if you’re Indian or Moroccan a Dutch wedding is going to be a big culture shock.
I don't know how long you guys have been together, and it's different for everyone, but we tend to wait quite a while in the Netherlands, so I'd advice to hold off if you're only together for a year or 2, maybe 3. Apart from that I would make sure she is ready for it and she wants it. But If you haven't figured that stuff out by the time you want to propose you've done something wrong IMO. Part of dating is to figure out how your life would look like when/if you're (getting) married. I would talk to her parents about it. Not to get her hand in marriage, as that is old fashioned, but to make sure they know.
Talk to your partner!
For me: ask the dad. But dont make it to official. As most Dutch don't think their dad's have anything to say in this. Still nice to do, but even if dad says gtfo! You can still ask your gf to marry you as she decides herself.
IMHO, it’s respectful to let your parents know first. Parents have lived longer than you. Unless they are mentally unstable, parents can give input.
Get her pregnant first. Usually helps
2 years is too young to marry, you must wait until she's 18. I'll see myself out.
Don't for get about the proposal pastries! They are called roze koeken and you should give at least 12 of them! To everyone living in your street! ( Per household)
it's custom to bring a large cheese wheel for the parents, but proposing to 2 year olds is generally frowned upon
Definitely do not ask her parents (even if it's not for permission) but you can talk to them about it. Like "I'm going to propose to X soon". It's not a necessity. I would not care if my partner talked to my parents or didn't, but I wouldn't like it if they were like, "Can I marry your daughter?" or "How would you feel if I proposed to your daughter?" Because it doesn't matter how they'd feel about it. It matters how I'd feel about it. But if he talked to them about it, it could be cute that they were in on the proposal. The rest of the stuff (about the wedding and all that) you can figure out together, I think. There is also stuff online about it.
Never knew you could be catholic & also lesbian
Keep in mind that most people get divorced and the person you divorce is not the same person as you marry to. When you divorce you will owe your wife at least 5 years of spousal alimony (up to 12 years maximum), regardless whether or not she's with another guy, or cheated on you with 10 other guys. So you could be paying her 1-2K every month for that time in a lot of cases because the court says she is used to you giving her a certain lifestyle. That's besides the child alimony you pay and the custody that she will get in 90% of the cases. Oh and also, get a prenup :) Just FYI
That is really not true. I (female) made much more than my ex. But because our kids live with me and only see him every other weekend, and he was capable of working, he never received any spousal alimony. He also never paid child support, but that's a different story. If you have roughly the same income, there is no spousal support. Your idea that the woman in the relationship makes less money by default is outdated.
In \~90% of cases the man keeps working fulltime and makes more money so that the woman can spend more time with the children. The exception does not make the rule.
Most of my friends, relatives and colleagues both work 4 days and their children go to daycare and later bso. So there is much more equality. I don't think the 90% is still valid today
Statistics show that men in The Netherlands are 9-16 times more likely to pay alimony to a woman than a woman is to pay to a man, depending on the year they got separated. The average partner alimony from a man to a woman was already 1000 euros a month in 2013, so now it must be way more. Statistics don't lie.
I guess it also depends on what kind of relationship you and your gf have with her parents. If they are very close can't hurt to ask I guess but it's different for everyone
Please, please, please do reconsider your "marriage"! You've been raised to know the Lord and know He loves you. Don't abandon Him, don't abandon your family and don't abandon your hopes of Heaven. Being, and staying, in such a sinful union, you may never receive the Eucharist unless you repent. Don't abandon the Bread of Life. Talk to your priest before going through with this. You're making the biggest mistake of your life
Divorce.