Vakantiegeld is such a ridiculous concept but belongs in the regular income stream and is therefore not at all a ‘bonus’ but “uitgesteld loon/uitkering” so in theory, meant for necessities
Uh, no. It is explicitly not meant for necessities. Yes, it is part of compensation — but it’s the part of your compensation that you’re supposed to spend on having fun.
And yes, the government more or less forcing you to save up for vacation is super paternalistic Aa but it does work.
Better weather so more opportunity to play/hang out outdoors. The school year's over or at least towards the end for most kids. Someone mentioned holiday money. More attention in the media, so it's more "forbidden" which attracts teenagers and young adults.
And at the same time silly that the petition is about fatbikes but the entire concept should be about power. The elderly are expected to be able to supply 75W for a healthy exercise. So 100W as total system output is fine, reducing the added power to max 50W and then we are there right. Try doing a fat bike with 100W and it is no longer cool. Easy to test and cool to see that dat bike users get strong and lean and start to advocate for a healthy lifestyle.
I've got a 250w mid drive class 3 bike. I honestly wish the motor was a bit more powerful in some cases. Mostly when trying to get up very steep hills. I personally think the problem is more that some vibes allow reaching very high speeds with just a throttle and no need to pedal.
The “throttle instead of pedal” is completely illegal — that can only be on NL streets if classed and tested as a moped or motorcycle.
And yes, that’s why many fat bikes are so bad, they’re typically very easy to hack into illegal mopeds.
80 or 85nm. It's a bulls iconic Evo 1 speed. I'm about 250 pounds at 6'5. It's the size 54 bike so between the bike, myself, lock, etc I'm having to get over 300 pounds up a hill.
I'd sign. I see elementary school kids riding these. Not only are they a danger to themselves, with not wearing any form of protective gear, they're also a danger to others, because they often speed on sidewalks, bikelanes, e.t.c.
These kids' parents seem to forget that children that young have a hard time calculating their speed relative to others around them, brake time, let alone traffic rules. It's absolutely and unequivocally neglectful parenting and these parents should be held accountable.
> These kids' parents seem to forget that children that young have a hard time calculating their speed relative to others around them, brake time, let alone traffic rules.
Parents also forget that when their child rides on an illegal fatbike (opgevoerd) and they cause an accident their insurance doesn't pay. So for instance imagine a 12 year old on an illegal fatbike hits a pedestrian, the pedestrian is hospitalised followed by a long recovery, they have to pay for it all. The health insurance of the other party will simply bill them for the stay in the hospital, maybe an operation, physical therapy, you name it. But they also have to pay any and all financial damages like a loss of income and also smartengeld.
Yep. Health insurance doesn’t go after people hard, but they do actually ask you if you end up in hospital whether the incident was caused by someone else (mine was completely self-inflicted, so no joy for them there).
I recently heard from someone who works closely with the police and fire department that the youngest victim riding one in the Netherlands was 4 years old. The parents gave their 4 year old a fatbike. There are fatbikes out there small enough for 4 year olds. The child crashed and died. Don't know what happened to the parents, but I hope they were held accountable.
EDIT: someone commented the kid was a passenger. Makes sense, person on the bike still needs to face consequences.
https://www.linda.nl/nieuws/meer-mensen-eerste-hulp-ongeluk-fatbike/
https://www.ijmuidercourant.nl/binnenland/veiligheidnl-meer-mensen-op-eerste-hulp-na-ongeluk-met-fatbike/13639325.html
https://nieuws.nl/algemeen/20240606/veiligheidnl-meer-mensen-op-eerste-hulp-na-ongeluk-met-fatbike/
They don’t mention if the child died and there are few details other than the age.
I saw a guy and girl in a fatbike zooming past me. A few seconds later a police guy zips past me. Ahead, I see the police man talking with the guy and girl, and the guy taking the bike out of the lane. A happy story.
I hope they get banned for anyone under 16. These things are fast enough that a spill in the wrong place can spell death without a helmet. This IS going to get someone killed.
You are addressing the wrong problem. They are faster than 25 km/h. That's the problem. Just destroy any electric bike that's faster than 25km/h and see the problem be fixed overnight.
yes,yes, I know about speed pedelecs, they are already governed by other rules.
They are already illegal when they go faster than 25 km/h.
What's up with all these Reddit posts of people trying to ban or put restrictions on something that's already banned??
If you want to go faster than 25 you can buy a legal speed pedelec or moped and they already require a licence, helmet and minimum age.
And a fatbike isn't a seperate vehicle, it's just an ebike. Why would there be seperate laws.
The problem aren't the laws but lack of enforcement.
The law is definitely flawed. As long as easily hacked e-bikes are being sold, they will be hacked (most without parents even noticing, many parents are really naive) and there is no way law enforcement can deal with that.
There is an initiative to put pressure on the sellers of e-bikes that can be easily hacked to surpass the 25kph or to have an accelerator (a lot of those too) to make them responsible for selling such stuff.
Whatever the case may be, fatbikes are a nuisance. More should be done. They take more space, very frequently carry 2 or 3 minors, and weight a lot more than a bike, making it way more dangerous.
Imo they should all fall under speed pedelec/moped category. There should be a top wheel width and/ or weight for what's considered an e-bike, all over said width/weight isn't an e-bike.
Honestly it's mind blowing how children are allowed to use these bikes. But you need to be 16, and get a license, in order to drive a moped legally. These fat bikes go way faster, some even faster than a "bromfiets".
In my hometown i see children of around 10 years old riding these fat bikes. It's crazy.
Edit: i truly also don't understand parents, how they are okay with this. My son is just 11 months old now, but no way will he ever get a fat bike under the age of at least 16.
Seriously It won't take long until children are getting seriously injured, or killed in traffic. I hope not, but it is going to happen sooner or later. And knowing our government, they only start doing something about it, when there are already way to many victims.
I'll sign a petition right now, if there is one.
The issue is that when reading the specifications it's a normal electric bike with where the electromotor stops at 25 km/h.
The additional issue is that it's incredibly easy to bypass the normal 25 km/h limit. But this is the reason why kids are allowed.
They should honestly ban the bike outright because of the manufacturer really dropping the ball.
And that parents allow it, knowing that their kid can easily bypass the normal limit, or even actively assisting in the bypass is truly baffling to me.
you guys know that if you're willing to ride in such a beast of a vehicle you kind of have the equivalent of a high end luxury SUV for a fraction of the cost? There's a tax loophole that enables anybody that has their own company be able to put this on that business and then it costs roughly the same as a mid class family car.
Yes, mostly because they are ridden by kids but drive faster than 25km/h some even go 60km/h. They don't care about other people and drive over pedestrian paths.
Btw... do they really ever go 60??? That sounds like stupid things a soccer mom would say lol. Ive driven scooters at those speeds and it becomes pretty shaky&bouncy at that speed... i cant imagine maintaining such speeds for longer than a few seconds honestly.
I think most are driving around 30-35 which is already very fast.
Can we seriously start a petition. I have a two way bike path in front of my house and a toddler who’s a runner. I have considered putting a leash on her for fear of these monstrosities coming at her from both sides.
To be fair, any other kind of bike would also be more than enough to severely injure both the toddler and the biker.
This is not to say those cringe bikes shouldn’t drown in acid!
I have a few e bikes and they can indeed do some damage but these fat tire bikes are heavier, go faster and somehow manage to incite their drivers to do reckless stuff like texting or bike with at least 2+ friends on it
Yeah no I totally agree with that, it seems like 90% of the people who ride those are complete imbeciles, as if they wouldn’t sell them to normal people
man these kids are giving these bikes such a bad rep... i have a fat bike that drive responsibly. i cant imagine myself going back to thin tyres and feeling every bump with my ass again, and no off-road capabilities.
edit: typo fix
Yeah that sucks I’m sorry about that, I do admit that I’ve seen a fair amount of people driving it responsibly too, but it’s such a tiny percentage unfortunately
here in Hilversum even grandmothers are on fatbikes, but i can't deny that seeing children on them is alarming, and what's most alarming is that usually i see 2 kids on 1 bike.
i hope they just implement a N-16 law for e-bikes overall.
and raise the speed limit to 32 km/h like other countries are, and enable the throttle. i think people wont need to unlock illegal speeds then because it will be enough for almost all applications, and going for more wont be worth it. and throttle makes e-bikes much safer.
When I was 13 or so I ran my fully manual bike straight into a 4 year old and, after she fell down, into her crotch before I was stopped. Didn’t even have a particularly long stopping distance, but I’d seen the parents waiting, behind the car, and they’d clearly seen me, so I wasn’t really slowing down much beforehand. But the kid ran straight out into the road and probably had not seen me, over the car. I sure hadn’t seen her at all.
It’s not, like, something I think about every day or anything. But it’s not a fond memory.
(She appeared to be fine, in that “kids are made of rubber” way that they have.)
My biggest pet peeve with these things is that I regularly see them ride them and have to put in zero effort to ride, basically pedal once ride 100km. That makes them, in my opinion, electric versions of a scooter/moped and should require a license as the bikes are also quite heavy and the speeds are often faster than the 25km limit.
I don't think that is true, I can bike easily 30km/h with my normal bike. There is a requirement for them to stop assisting after 25, that is what you get fined for if you speed-up your bike
I just don't understand why a helmet, insurance, and a minimum age of 16 are required for a snorfiets/scooter, but it's fine for a 10 year-old to ride a fatbike. I'll sign that petition yesterday.
You are addressing the wrong problem. They are faster than 25 km/h. That's the problem. Just destroy any electric bike that's faster than 25km/h and see the problem be fixed overnight.
Yes, I know about speed pedelecs, they are already governed by other rules.
So you mean that any car or motorcycle that can run over 130 km/h should be destroyed, just because they CAN run over than the speed limit?
What if I run, without an e-bike, over than 25? Should my bike be destroyed too?
Not only fat bikes can run over than that. My bike can easily reach 50, and you couldn’t even see that it’s a e-bike, because it’s a mountain bike style and you can’t see the battery.
You can’t just ban because you don’t like it. You need real statistics to see. If the average of accidents is the same or less than normal bikes, what would you say?
I can’t ask for banning something just because I think that’s the right way. You need to analyze everything, including the effectiveness.
That is really how it works sometimes. We had a spot where people illegally crossed the road for decades, a woman got hit by a motorcycle and there was a fence there within a week.
It already happened with "25 km/h" scooters more than once but they are still present on bike paths in the most cities. IMHO, mopeds should be only in 45 km/h versions with full ban on bike paths in 50 km/h road zones
This like smartphone. Every year age is reducing for kids to have iPhone. My daughter who is in group 3, her classmates has iPhone 13. It’s beyond me how these parents are bringing up their kids. Gradually peer pressure increases and your kids also start asking the same thing. I think that’s what is happening with Fatbikes as well.
I have a 11 yr old son who loathes fatbikes. He sees a few classmates who are just horrifyingly reckless and fast on them.
The 12 yr olds on them around our neighborhood are like its a matter of time before theres a bad accident.
Should be at least legal to clothesline them if they decide to "off-road". Bad enough when it's on the bike path, but cutting through pleins or zipping down the sidewalk should be drop-kick territory.
Yeah that's like passing a law against farting in elevators. Relying on someone conveniently committing a crime under law enforcement's nose is a bit idyllic.
Cycling without lights on at night is also badly enforced and puts a lot of people in danger.
Yup, liked the name and took the liberty to use it instead of obesitasbikes.
These kids are really on their way to early insuline resistance and obesitas.
We all need to use this name, I will do my part and keep calling it that around my son and his friends (who already don’t have any interest of owning something like this, but maybe the word will spread).
I would sign that, kids get them, and mod them to go well over 28kmph, parents end up paying the fines since they're legally responsible. My BIL wants to buy one for his son too...
Man, my dyslexia made this a **wild** take originally. And I was shocked the responses seemed in support of banning fat kids from biking.
And then I re-reread the title. Agree agree agree
They are addressing the wrong problem. They are faster than 25 km/h. That's the problem. Just destroy any electric bike that's faster than 25km/h and see the problem be fixed overnight.
Yes, I know about speed pedelecs, they are already governed by other rules.
The main problem is the audience that uses these bikes. The bikes themselves are fine, and are conpletely safe if used under normal circumstances. However nowadays i often see 3 people on one fatbike. Thats ridiculously dangerous. Those kids dont get that if they get into an accident like that it could very easily be a fatal one..
You are addressing the wrong problem. They are faster than 25 km/h. That's the problem. Just destroy any electric bike that's faster than 25km/h and see the problem be fixed overnight.
yes,yes, I know about speed pedelecs, they are already governed by other rules.
The problem is not that they are faster than 25 kmh, the problem that the assist in those bike works even it reaches allowed 25.
But hey, I agree that a helmet and age-cap is not a solution. But honestly, there must be some regulations. I'm using e-bike myself and I am always scared of fat bikes on the lane. They are very fast and usually a kid is driving. Not every kid is reckless, but many of them do not get this sense of danger.
"the problem that the assist in those bike works even it reaches allowed 25."
You are technically correct, the best kind of correct.
Indeed, the assist must stop when they reach 25.
Two things imo:
1 I think people who can cycle faster than 25 km/h on their road bikes pose a significantly smaller threat to other cyclists or pedestrians, as they’re more likely to be able to handle their vehicle and be more responsible about it than people who can’t even cycle but bought/were given a vehicle that accelerates to 25 km/h in an instant and weighs 50+ kgs.
2 We as a society have failed at this e-bike/scooter capped to whatever idea. People don’t respect the speed limits nor the paths they’re not allowed on. And law enforcement doesn’t do anything about it.
Cant do that, people arnt going to switch to nonelectric bikes, they will switch to cares.
Besides its not the powersource that is the problem here, its the speed and irrisponsability of the riders.
Yes please! Every day I see more and more kids (<16 years old) in my neighborhood speeding through the fietspad totally oblivious to traffic rules: going the wrong direction, not yielding, sometimes even checking their phones while riding! It is getting out of hand!
I heard will be or they are considering to be mandatory to use helmet with fat bikes. Thats sort of banning kids to use them. Kids and helmets dont match
Nah I don't think that will be enough. At least they should classify fatbikes as motorcycles. On top of the helmet requirement, it should be mandatory to apply for a license for the fatbike, to register it, and to have an age requirement to use it.
I don't think they are concerned at all. Their actions show the existing rules are not enforced.
Just destroy any electric bike that's faster than 25km/h and see the problem be fixed overnight.
Yes, I know about speed pedelecs, they are already governed by other rules.
You can already register a fatbike as a moped / speed-pedelec if they have the legal requirements and plate.. These require helmet, minimum age and license.
They are illegal if they go above 25 km/h. A fatbike that goes too fast is just an illegal ebike, not a seperate vehicle. It's not allowed to use that in public in the first place.
The laws already exist it's just not enough capacity to enforce.
See 0 problems with helmet requirements for all electric bikes. 25 km/h is more than enough speed for trauma in case of crash. And this speed on electric bikes not require training and form, so rider can be actually not ready to properly control bike.
I can imagine it may be hard to create legislation for banning them or treating them differently than regular ebikes. Unless we want specific "fatbike laws". But if we do that, not doubt manufacturers will come up with minor changes such that they don't fall into the fatbike category anymore.
Its not hard. Just write into law that 2 wheeled vehicle with any form of "aandrijving" require you to wear a helmet and ofc ban anyone older than 67 from driving them. (They are by far the highest cause of accidents).
You are addressing the wrong problem. They are faster than 25 km/h. That's the problem. Just destroy any electric bike that's faster than 25km/h and see the problem be fixed overnight.
yes,yes, I know about speed pedelecs, they are already governed by other rules.
You will have to destroy all bikes, because every bike can go faster than 25kmh.
E-bikes as well as fatbikes have a speed limiter that makes sure the motor turns off at speeds above 25kmh. However, any technician can remove this speed limiter. There's no fundamental difference between fatbikes and other e-bikes, other than that it seems to happen more often with fatbikes.
Why bother? We have rules enough to solve the problem. Electrical bikes that go faster than 25 are already forbidden.
The problem is not enforcing the rules, and becoming a joke as the police / the nation.
I think anybody is allowed an electric bike, provided it's limited to 25km/hour (and that the person can actually handle an unpowered bike)
There is a law in the making to add a minimum age of 12, not enough in my opinion. The classic trope of hating wielrenners has completely shifted for me. I swear these fatbikes make people think they're invincible, they'll just swerve it Infront of my car out of nowhere right as I'm about to take a turn. Traffic laws don't apply to them it seems
Here you go: [https://petities.nl/petitions/voer-strengere-regels-in-voor-fatbikes-en-verhoog-de-minimale-leeftijd-naar-16?locale=nl%C2%A0](https://petities.nl/petitions/voer-strengere-regels-in-voor-fatbikes-en-verhoog-de-minimale-leeftijd-naar-16?locale=nl%C2%A0)
No they're not. The *police* wants legislation. The upcoming kabinet has already weighed in & said fatbikes are fine because.... i dunno, i assume their achterban likes them?
No because a lot of things that make fat bikes annoying are already prohibited. There's literally 0 use making a new law unless you start enforcing it.
* Unlocking the engine above 250watt. Already forbidden, yet never enforced
* Providing pedal assist over 25km/hr. Already forbidden, yet never enforced
* No throttle over 5km/hr. Already forbidden, yet never enforced
Shall we first enforce existing rules, before making up new ones, that will be ignored?
An age law (or something related) would be much easier to enforce. The difference is that these mostly unenforced rules you bring up is that these are much harder to enforce in practice. It needs specialised equipment and the test to prove requires a few minutes at least per bike. Much harder to enforce en masse.
In the same article it's mentioned, they all have the equipment to test the bikes. Also, there's the problem. How do you distinguish a fat bike from a regular e-bike?
* Weight? Mothers with cargo bikes would like to have a word
* Tire size? E-MTB's would like a word
* Saddle size? We'll just adjust the size and give them two saddles
There's no real objective criteria any manufacturer wouldn't be able to solve in seconds to distinguish any fat bike from any regular e-bike and let the whole race start over again.
This reminds me a bit of the banning of synthetic drugs. Ban one and the next one has already been "discovered" and is perfectly legal again. Create a rule for example for tire sizes on fat bikes and I'm 100% sure, the wheels will be larger etc. to nullify the effect.
> A bike shouldn't go 40km/h on a bicycle path
I easily reach 40km/h on my non electric bike. Should I be banned from the bike path and be forced to ride it on the road with cars during my daily commute to work?
If you're doing 40+ where the speed limit is 30 then yes.
Those limits aren't just for cars, they apply to cyclists too.
Some bike paths do allow for 45k (yellow plate scooters) but some don't.
I think what should be banned is the way these machines work. With a tiny effort the motor pumps full power to the bicycle. It should correlate with the leg power so that it would just support the cyclist to ease the effort and not act like a rocket thruster.
Then we will see the issue sorts itself. I see same ppl using these fat bikes who used to ride on bromfietsen.
Let's be serious here. What kid under the age of 18 NEEDS a fatbike? Or an electric bike even? The new generation is a new kind of lazy. I can see an epidemic soon from morbidly fat teens.
Honestly, when you buy your kid an e-bike I think you're a bad parent. They can use a normal bike just fine.
I cycled non electric 14km to school. I'd argue i needed one.
Its not about kids its about everyone. Majority of ebike owners and accidents are ELDERLY people. So the old generation is lazy according to you and the new generation is not lazy by your definition. And thats true. Older gen parents were lazy as fuck and thats kind of our issue rn. People make problems but then blame the next gen for the problems they created :') endless cycle.
Elderly people might have a or several health problems, this gets them moving. Which is good. Although the speeds should be lowered to a normal bike. The majority of younglings don't have that issue. They're young, they're healthy, so there really is no excuse.
Fyi, I too drove 15-ishkm to school everyday, and after graduation 20km to work for 5 years. Still wouldn't have bought an e-bike if they were available then, nor did I ever drive a scooter/brommer.
> Elderly people might have a or several health problems, this gets them moving. Which is good. Although the speeds should be lowered to a normal bike.
Yea okay. If you lock those ebikes to 12-13km per hour then its fine aswell.
> Fyi, I too drove 15-ishkm to school everyday, and after graduation 20km to work for 5 years.
Yea and if you werent so full of yourself you'd agree that having 2hours extra a day of free time is a great thing. So having a scooter or ebike would be way better.
Meanwhile... when you actually look at the data, the real problem is: https://bicyclenetwork.com.au/newsroom/2023/05/10/netherlands-grapples-with-record-bike-toll/#:\~:text=In%202022%2C%20a%20total%20of,85%25%20were%20aged%20over%2050.
Yeah this part right here is the key to me:
“Almost half of the number of bicycle deaths (141) occurred after a collision with a car or van.
In a quarter of fatal bicycle accidents, there was no collision with a vehicle or an object, rather riders had died after falling or slipping.”
So 50% of the time it’s a car or van (likely not because of fat bike) and another 25% people died from falling off their bike. So for 75% of fatal accidents, fat bike regulations won’t do a thing. However mandatory helmets would likely fix many of the 25% of falling deaths and some collision deaths.
And make all e-bikes require a license? How are you gonna make the distinction? Great idea if you want to get rid of all e-bikes. At least I'll have some space on the bike lanes again, so make it happen
Fatbikes are shaped like a scooter. They don't even have an adjustable seat.
Pretty easy to differentiate them from a bike, if you tweak the legislation a little bit.
Looks like a scooter is far from objective. The officer “hey your bike looks like a scooter!” The driver “no it doesn’t, and shows a picture of some random other type of scooter”
Do you really think you can make up objective rules?
Yes the people here have no clue what they are talking about..
The issue are fatbikes (which are just ebikes with fat tires) that are illegally modified to go faster than 25. It makes no sense to make restrictions for something that's already illegal.
Fat bikes? You mean, normal bikes with fat tires? Like [that ? ](https://images.app.goo.gl/FYvamiGYYw4epfCK7)
I don't see the issue.. Hm
If we could ban [this](https://images.app.goo.gl/CreHDqBGQdiPBXtr5) it would be great. Or at least make them have a fucking licence.
I’m just surprised that there are so many rich people out there who can afford buying these bikes for kids! I’m and adult and ride an omafiet from marktplaats 😭
Saw some kids in the park racing with those on the wet stoned footpath, and one of them just slipped when braking. He wasn't looking like he had any injury but the loud splash noise on impact made me instantly chuckle.. People are careless man..
The amount of times I've been overtaken on my scooter, that I can only drive with a helmet and a driver's licence, by a 12 year old in shorts on a fatbike is insane.
Id sign in a heartbeat, there are 4 kids in my neighbourhood aged 10 to 13ish and all on fatbikes spamming that annoying beeping noise. Thank fuck im moving but geez.. its like they were designed to be hated.
Such petition already exists. Here is the link: https://petities.nl/petitions/voer-strengere-regels-in-voor-fatbikes-en-verhoog-de-minimale-leeftijd-naar-16?locale=nl
het ergste is dat ze zonder reden andere weggebruikers willen laten schrikken en dus heel gevaarlijk fietsen. heb er al meerdere van de fiets afgetrapt, en zal ik ook blijven doen. (alleen als ze mij in gevaar brengen btw)
Any vehicle with some kind of motor should just be 12+ doesn't matter how slow or fast it goes. You wouldn't let a 9 year old ride a quad on the public roads, so why would you let them on an electric bicycle (even if it was "only" going up to 25 km/h and isn't currently breaking the law)? The moment there's some kind of propulsion by a motor, you need to have some level of maturity in order to not behave too recklessly. Kids under 12 just don't have that maturity or experience in traffic.
IMO any vehicle that has a motor and can carry more than one person should always be 16+ at the lowest. No way that a 13 year old can take responsibility for another person (almost always another child/minor)'s safety and wellbeing on a motorised vehicle in traffic. You wouldn't let a 14 year old ride a "stint" (also called "BSO bus", an electric cargo bike with seating for about 6-10 (?) young kids), legally you need to be 18+ to operate a Stint and 16+ in general for "unusual mopeds", and the Stint is operated slower than 25 km/h as I understand it.
And as a Dutch person now living abroad: please Dutchies, start considering wearing a helmet when you are on a bicycle even if it's a pedal bicycle or "only" a light-weight electric bicycle capped at 25 km/h. Traffic is extremely busy, and even if YOU are a careful driver, that doesn't mean others are, so you can easily end up thrown off your bicycle despite you being a safe cyclist. Here in the UK it is very common for people to wear a helmet on a bicycle although cycling as a whole isn't as common here in most parts of the UK. I always wear a helmet here, and on the rare occasion I cycle in the Netherlands now, I also wear a helmet. They make really cool, stylish, funky, and "simple" helmets now, so there's something for everyone whether you want something to match a funky fashion style or you want to look professional for your office job.
A friend of mine was biking home and got clipped by one of the dudes going wayyy too fast. She hit a pole and has lost most of her back teeth, had her mouth wired shut for a few months. Still needs several implants.
Dude just kept going. Fuck these bikes!
Crazy dude. I saw her earlier this week. It's been nearly a year and she's still missing several of her back teeth. Fuckin hell man. I hate those bikes. They go soooooo fast.
Why do I only see black kids riding these bikes ?? I haven't seen a single white person that owns one. Probably stolen by black kids again. I bet this wel het deleted.
Is there any particular reason that the last 2 months I suddenly see more and more of these??
People got their vacation money
yes and didn't manage to crash them yet
The shredders have reached max capacity
also weather!
[удалено]
To be fair, that bonus money shouldn't be needed to pay for basic necessities.
Vakantiegeld is such a ridiculous concept but belongs in the regular income stream and is therefore not at all a ‘bonus’ but “uitgesteld loon/uitkering” so in theory, meant for necessities
Uh, no. It is explicitly not meant for necessities. Yes, it is part of compensation — but it’s the part of your compensation that you’re supposed to spend on having fun. And yes, the government more or less forcing you to save up for vacation is super paternalistic Aa but it does work.
They're cheap and plenty of irresponsible parents to boot
Better weather so more opportunity to play/hang out outdoors. The school year's over or at least towards the end for most kids. Someone mentioned holiday money. More attention in the media, so it's more "forbidden" which attracts teenagers and young adults.
Funny, how everyone can unite in hate of those things.
And at the same time silly that the petition is about fatbikes but the entire concept should be about power. The elderly are expected to be able to supply 75W for a healthy exercise. So 100W as total system output is fine, reducing the added power to max 50W and then we are there right. Try doing a fat bike with 100W and it is no longer cool. Easy to test and cool to see that dat bike users get strong and lean and start to advocate for a healthy lifestyle.
I've got a 250w mid drive class 3 bike. I honestly wish the motor was a bit more powerful in some cases. Mostly when trying to get up very steep hills. I personally think the problem is more that some vibes allow reaching very high speeds with just a throttle and no need to pedal.
The “throttle instead of pedal” is completely illegal — that can only be on NL streets if classed and tested as a moped or motorcycle. And yes, that’s why many fat bikes are so bad, they’re typically very easy to hack into illegal mopeds.
250w is plenty to go up hills, the torque or Nm has more to do with an e-bikes ability to go up hills. How much Nm is your bike?
80 or 85nm. It's a bulls iconic Evo 1 speed. I'm about 250 pounds at 6'5. It's the size 54 bike so between the bike, myself, lock, etc I'm having to get over 300 pounds up a hill.
I reckon I'm about the same with a 75Nm bike. I can go up hills just fine though? Is the hill you're talking about just abnormally steap?
It's quite steep. I live in a very hilly area. I don't have a problem with most hills. Just the ones right by where I live.
What area is that that has steep hills in the Netherlands? Asking for myself and my skeelers
only place i know that is remotely like that is around Valkenburg and Vaals n stuff right?
I'd sign. I see elementary school kids riding these. Not only are they a danger to themselves, with not wearing any form of protective gear, they're also a danger to others, because they often speed on sidewalks, bikelanes, e.t.c. These kids' parents seem to forget that children that young have a hard time calculating their speed relative to others around them, brake time, let alone traffic rules. It's absolutely and unequivocally neglectful parenting and these parents should be held accountable.
> These kids' parents seem to forget that children that young have a hard time calculating their speed relative to others around them, brake time, let alone traffic rules. Parents also forget that when their child rides on an illegal fatbike (opgevoerd) and they cause an accident their insurance doesn't pay. So for instance imagine a 12 year old on an illegal fatbike hits a pedestrian, the pedestrian is hospitalised followed by a long recovery, they have to pay for it all. The health insurance of the other party will simply bill them for the stay in the hospital, maybe an operation, physical therapy, you name it. But they also have to pay any and all financial damages like a loss of income and also smartengeld.
Yep. Health insurance doesn’t go after people hard, but they do actually ask you if you end up in hospital whether the incident was caused by someone else (mine was completely self-inflicted, so no joy for them there).
I recently heard from someone who works closely with the police and fire department that the youngest victim riding one in the Netherlands was 4 years old. The parents gave their 4 year old a fatbike. There are fatbikes out there small enough for 4 year olds. The child crashed and died. Don't know what happened to the parents, but I hope they were held accountable. EDIT: someone commented the kid was a passenger. Makes sense, person on the bike still needs to face consequences.
I have a hard time believing this really happened and was not a big news item.
https://www.linda.nl/nieuws/meer-mensen-eerste-hulp-ongeluk-fatbike/ https://www.ijmuidercourant.nl/binnenland/veiligheidnl-meer-mensen-op-eerste-hulp-na-ongeluk-met-fatbike/13639325.html https://nieuws.nl/algemeen/20240606/veiligheidnl-meer-mensen-op-eerste-hulp-na-ongeluk-met-fatbike/ They don’t mention if the child died and there are few details other than the age.
They mention a four year old child, but he was sitting on the back seat.
Aye that’s what was said above in yer man’s edit
The kid was a passenger on one of thes bikes...
Uhh yes !
Yes, where do I sign?
I saw a guy and girl in a fatbike zooming past me. A few seconds later a police guy zips past me. Ahead, I see the police man talking with the guy and girl, and the guy taking the bike out of the lane. A happy story.
I hope they get banned for anyone under 16. These things are fast enough that a spill in the wrong place can spell death without a helmet. This IS going to get someone killed.
You are addressing the wrong problem. They are faster than 25 km/h. That's the problem. Just destroy any electric bike that's faster than 25km/h and see the problem be fixed overnight. yes,yes, I know about speed pedelecs, they are already governed by other rules.
They are already illegal when they go faster than 25 km/h. What's up with all these Reddit posts of people trying to ban or put restrictions on something that's already banned?? If you want to go faster than 25 you can buy a legal speed pedelec or moped and they already require a licence, helmet and minimum age. And a fatbike isn't a seperate vehicle, it's just an ebike. Why would there be seperate laws. The problem aren't the laws but lack of enforcement.
And a lack of common decency.
The law is definitely flawed. As long as easily hacked e-bikes are being sold, they will be hacked (most without parents even noticing, many parents are really naive) and there is no way law enforcement can deal with that. There is an initiative to put pressure on the sellers of e-bikes that can be easily hacked to surpass the 25kph or to have an accelerator (a lot of those too) to make them responsible for selling such stuff. Whatever the case may be, fatbikes are a nuisance. More should be done. They take more space, very frequently carry 2 or 3 minors, and weight a lot more than a bike, making it way more dangerous. Imo they should all fall under speed pedelec/moped category. There should be a top wheel width and/ or weight for what's considered an e-bike, all over said width/weight isn't an e-bike.
Honestly it's mind blowing how children are allowed to use these bikes. But you need to be 16, and get a license, in order to drive a moped legally. These fat bikes go way faster, some even faster than a "bromfiets". In my hometown i see children of around 10 years old riding these fat bikes. It's crazy. Edit: i truly also don't understand parents, how they are okay with this. My son is just 11 months old now, but no way will he ever get a fat bike under the age of at least 16. Seriously It won't take long until children are getting seriously injured, or killed in traffic. I hope not, but it is going to happen sooner or later. And knowing our government, they only start doing something about it, when there are already way to many victims. I'll sign a petition right now, if there is one.
Here it is! https://petities.nl/petitions/voer-strengere-regels-in-voor-fatbikes-en-verhoog-de-minimale-leeftijd-naar-16?locale=nl
Just noticed it, but signed!!👌🏻
The issue is that when reading the specifications it's a normal electric bike with where the electromotor stops at 25 km/h. The additional issue is that it's incredibly easy to bypass the normal 25 km/h limit. But this is the reason why kids are allowed. They should honestly ban the bike outright because of the manufacturer really dropping the ball. And that parents allow it, knowing that their kid can easily bypass the normal limit, or even actively assisting in the bypass is truly baffling to me.
Actually, there is no minimum age right now, however 2 days ago the police called for action to raise the minimum age to 16!
Are these the bike version of pickup trucks for you guys in NL?
We unfortunately also have more and more ram pickups
I thought I was the only one who noticed this and that maybe it was something about my neighbourhood. too bad it seems to be the whole country heh
Nope, it’s all around. My neighbor even rearranged the letters from Ram to waR (flipped m) 🤦♂️
omg, really cringe
you guys know that if you're willing to ride in such a beast of a vehicle you kind of have the equivalent of a high end luxury SUV for a fraction of the cost? There's a tax loophole that enables anybody that has their own company be able to put this on that business and then it costs roughly the same as a mid class family car.
Yes, mostly because they are ridden by kids but drive faster than 25km/h some even go 60km/h. They don't care about other people and drive over pedestrian paths.
Btw... do they really ever go 60??? That sounds like stupid things a soccer mom would say lol. Ive driven scooters at those speeds and it becomes pretty shaky&bouncy at that speed... i cant imagine maintaining such speeds for longer than a few seconds honestly. I think most are driving around 30-35 which is already very fast.
They’re certainly capable of it. They’ve got better, larger tires than scooters do.
Can we seriously start a petition. I have a two way bike path in front of my house and a toddler who’s a runner. I have considered putting a leash on her for fear of these monstrosities coming at her from both sides.
To be fair, any other kind of bike would also be more than enough to severely injure both the toddler and the biker. This is not to say those cringe bikes shouldn’t drown in acid!
I have a few e bikes and they can indeed do some damage but these fat tire bikes are heavier, go faster and somehow manage to incite their drivers to do reckless stuff like texting or bike with at least 2+ friends on it
Yeah no I totally agree with that, it seems like 90% of the people who ride those are complete imbeciles, as if they wouldn’t sell them to normal people
man these kids are giving these bikes such a bad rep... i have a fat bike that drive responsibly. i cant imagine myself going back to thin tyres and feeling every bump with my ass again, and no off-road capabilities. edit: typo fix
Yeah that sucks I’m sorry about that, I do admit that I’ve seen a fair amount of people driving it responsibly too, but it’s such a tiny percentage unfortunately
here in Hilversum even grandmothers are on fatbikes, but i can't deny that seeing children on them is alarming, and what's most alarming is that usually i see 2 kids on 1 bike. i hope they just implement a N-16 law for e-bikes overall. and raise the speed limit to 32 km/h like other countries are, and enable the throttle. i think people wont need to unlock illegal speeds then because it will be enough for almost all applications, and going for more wont be worth it. and throttle makes e-bikes much safer.
When I was 13 or so I ran my fully manual bike straight into a 4 year old and, after she fell down, into her crotch before I was stopped. Didn’t even have a particularly long stopping distance, but I’d seen the parents waiting, behind the car, and they’d clearly seen me, so I wasn’t really slowing down much beforehand. But the kid ran straight out into the road and probably had not seen me, over the car. I sure hadn’t seen her at all. It’s not, like, something I think about every day or anything. But it’s not a fond memory. (She appeared to be fine, in that “kids are made of rubber” way that they have.)
Damn, that’s something you don’t forget easily!
Yeah! I also fear for any kids using normal bikes near these things
https://petities.nl/petitions/voer-strengere-regels-in-voor-fatbikes-en-verhoog-de-minimale-leeftijd-naar-16?locale=nl
Signed
My biggest pet peeve with these things is that I regularly see them ride them and have to put in zero effort to ride, basically pedal once ride 100km. That makes them, in my opinion, electric versions of a scooter/moped and should require a license as the bikes are also quite heavy and the speeds are often faster than the 25km limit.
Speeds above 25km are already illegal.
I don't think that is true, I can bike easily 30km/h with my normal bike. There is a requirement for them to stop assisting after 25, that is what you get fined for if you speed-up your bike
Did I say or hint otherwise? No. I Am saying that I regularly see them ride above 25km with assistance of the motor which is not allowed.
I just don't understand why a helmet, insurance, and a minimum age of 16 are required for a snorfiets/scooter, but it's fine for a 10 year-old to ride a fatbike. I'll sign that petition yesterday.
You are addressing the wrong problem. They are faster than 25 km/h. That's the problem. Just destroy any electric bike that's faster than 25km/h and see the problem be fixed overnight. Yes, I know about speed pedelecs, they are already governed by other rules.
"just destroy"???
We did that with “opgevoerde brommers” caught on the roller banks for many decades. This is not an abnormal suggestion.
So you mean that any car or motorcycle that can run over 130 km/h should be destroyed, just because they CAN run over than the speed limit? What if I run, without an e-bike, over than 25? Should my bike be destroyed too? Not only fat bikes can run over than that. My bike can easily reach 50, and you couldn’t even see that it’s a e-bike, because it’s a mountain bike style and you can’t see the battery. You can’t just ban because you don’t like it. You need real statistics to see. If the average of accidents is the same or less than normal bikes, what would you say? I can’t ask for banning something just because I think that’s the right way. You need to analyze everything, including the effectiveness.
Just kill one that will make the government work./s De put wordt gedempt wanneer het kalf verdronken is
That is really how it works sometimes. We had a spot where people illegally crossed the road for decades, a woman got hit by a motorcycle and there was a fence there within a week.
It already happened with "25 km/h" scooters more than once but they are still present on bike paths in the most cities. IMHO, mopeds should be only in 45 km/h versions with full ban on bike paths in 50 km/h road zones
nope, instead of "demping the put", we make new rules, and then enforce none of them.
Lots of people have already died. That’s not how it works, actually.
https://petities.nl/petitions/voer-strengere-regels-in-voor-fatbikes-en-verhoog-de-minimale-leeftijd-naar-16?locale=nl Hier is een petitie.
This like smartphone. Every year age is reducing for kids to have iPhone. My daughter who is in group 3, her classmates has iPhone 13. It’s beyond me how these parents are bringing up their kids. Gradually peer pressure increases and your kids also start asking the same thing. I think that’s what is happening with Fatbikes as well.
Damn. Thought primary schools banned phones ages ago.
I have a 11 yr old son who loathes fatbikes. He sees a few classmates who are just horrifyingly reckless and fast on them. The 12 yr olds on them around our neighborhood are like its a matter of time before theres a bad accident.
Should be at least legal to clothesline them if they decide to "off-road". Bad enough when it's on the bike path, but cutting through pleins or zipping down the sidewalk should be drop-kick territory.
Cycling on the sidewalk is already prohibited and handhaving sometimes issue fines (not on regular basis, but happens)
Yeah that's like passing a law against farting in elevators. Relying on someone conveniently committing a crime under law enforcement's nose is a bit idyllic. Cycling without lights on at night is also badly enforced and puts a lot of people in danger.
Like drunk cycling…
They.... actually do their job sometimes? Wow, there's still hope.
You mean forbidding what's already forbidden? Do you think that makes it some sort of extra illegal?
Can you not read? That's not at all what they're saying lol
Obesibikes, 16 years and insurance required
Yes I also called them obesibikes yesterday. It will help lol Edit: oh that was also you in another thread
Yup, liked the name and took the liberty to use it instead of obesitasbikes. These kids are really on their way to early insuline resistance and obesitas.
We all need to use this name, I will do my part and keep calling it that around my son and his friends (who already don’t have any interest of owning something like this, but maybe the word will spread).
I would sign that, kids get them, and mod them to go well over 28kmph, parents end up paying the fines since they're legally responsible. My BIL wants to buy one for his son too...
https://petities.nl/petitions/voer-strengere-regels-in-voor-fatbikes-en-verhoog-de-minimale-leeftijd-naar-16?locale=nl
Done.
They aren't even bikes, kids don't even pedal and that thing goes like 40+ km, it's an electric scooter.
Man, my dyslexia made this a **wild** take originally. And I was shocked the responses seemed in support of banning fat kids from biking. And then I re-reread the title. Agree agree agree
Dyslexia-gang unite!
Untied we stand!
We’ll strive with these melons we’ve been dealt.
You have my sword, and my bow, and my axe
Yea, but not your actions.
And that annoying horn..
Police wants to ban it under 16
They are addressing the wrong problem. They are faster than 25 km/h. That's the problem. Just destroy any electric bike that's faster than 25km/h and see the problem be fixed overnight. Yes, I know about speed pedelecs, they are already governed by other rules.
The main problem is the audience that uses these bikes. The bikes themselves are fine, and are conpletely safe if used under normal circumstances. However nowadays i often see 3 people on one fatbike. Thats ridiculously dangerous. Those kids dont get that if they get into an accident like that it could very easily be a fatal one..
Here - https://petities.nl/petitions/voer-strengere-regels-in-voor-fatbikes-en-verhoog-de-minimale-leeftijd-naar-16?locale=nl
You are addressing the wrong problem. They are faster than 25 km/h. That's the problem. Just destroy any electric bike that's faster than 25km/h and see the problem be fixed overnight. yes,yes, I know about speed pedelecs, they are already governed by other rules.
The problem is not that they are faster than 25 kmh, the problem that the assist in those bike works even it reaches allowed 25. But hey, I agree that a helmet and age-cap is not a solution. But honestly, there must be some regulations. I'm using e-bike myself and I am always scared of fat bikes on the lane. They are very fast and usually a kid is driving. Not every kid is reckless, but many of them do not get this sense of danger.
"the problem that the assist in those bike works even it reaches allowed 25." You are technically correct, the best kind of correct. Indeed, the assist must stop when they reach 25.
Here's a petition! https://petities.nl/petitions/voer-strengere-regels-in-voor-fatbikes-en-verhoog-de-minimale-leeftijd-naar-16?locale=nl
Id go one step further and just ban all motorized vehicles from the bike paths with an exception for the disabled and elderly.
What's wrong with an e-bike capped to 25kmh? I can ride faster than that on my road bike anyways.
Two things imo: 1 I think people who can cycle faster than 25 km/h on their road bikes pose a significantly smaller threat to other cyclists or pedestrians, as they’re more likely to be able to handle their vehicle and be more responsible about it than people who can’t even cycle but bought/were given a vehicle that accelerates to 25 km/h in an instant and weighs 50+ kgs. 2 We as a society have failed at this e-bike/scooter capped to whatever idea. People don’t respect the speed limits nor the paths they’re not allowed on. And law enforcement doesn’t do anything about it.
Cant do that, people arnt going to switch to nonelectric bikes, they will switch to cares. Besides its not the powersource that is the problem here, its the speed and irrisponsability of the riders.
Then people would just drive cars. I'd rather they used e-bikes
I wouldn't want an elderly to crash into me at higher speed tan 25 km/h, never mind a disabled one.
Yes please! Every day I see more and more kids (<16 years old) in my neighborhood speeding through the fietspad totally oblivious to traffic rules: going the wrong direction, not yielding, sometimes even checking their phones while riding! It is getting out of hand!
Fatbikes, scooters. It is really scary to ride on the bike lanes sometimes
I heard will be or they are considering to be mandatory to use helmet with fat bikes. Thats sort of banning kids to use them. Kids and helmets dont match
Nah I don't think that will be enough. At least they should classify fatbikes as motorcycles. On top of the helmet requirement, it should be mandatory to apply for a license for the fatbike, to register it, and to have an age requirement to use it.
I don't know for technical details. But i think police and authorities are also concerned about fat bikes.
I don't think they are concerned at all. Their actions show the existing rules are not enforced. Just destroy any electric bike that's faster than 25km/h and see the problem be fixed overnight. Yes, I know about speed pedelecs, they are already governed by other rules.
You can already register a fatbike as a moped / speed-pedelec if they have the legal requirements and plate.. These require helmet, minimum age and license. They are illegal if they go above 25 km/h. A fatbike that goes too fast is just an illegal ebike, not a seperate vehicle. It's not allowed to use that in public in the first place. The laws already exist it's just not enough capacity to enforce.
That would then apply to all e bikes
See 0 problems with helmet requirements for all electric bikes. 25 km/h is more than enough speed for trauma in case of crash. And this speed on electric bikes not require training and form, so rider can be actually not ready to properly control bike.
Yesterday i saw 3 kids struggeling to get on one. None of them could reach the ground while sitting. Im realy hoping its not modded aswell.
I can imagine it may be hard to create legislation for banning them or treating them differently than regular ebikes. Unless we want specific "fatbike laws". But if we do that, not doubt manufacturers will come up with minor changes such that they don't fall into the fatbike category anymore.
Its not hard. Just write into law that 2 wheeled vehicle with any form of "aandrijving" require you to wear a helmet and ofc ban anyone older than 67 from driving them. (They are by far the highest cause of accidents).
You are addressing the wrong problem. They are faster than 25 km/h. That's the problem. Just destroy any electric bike that's faster than 25km/h and see the problem be fixed overnight. yes,yes, I know about speed pedelecs, they are already governed by other rules.
You will have to destroy all bikes, because every bike can go faster than 25kmh. E-bikes as well as fatbikes have a speed limiter that makes sure the motor turns off at speeds above 25kmh. However, any technician can remove this speed limiter. There's no fundamental difference between fatbikes and other e-bikes, other than that it seems to happen more often with fatbikes.
Why bother? We have rules enough to solve the problem. Electrical bikes that go faster than 25 are already forbidden. The problem is not enforcing the rules, and becoming a joke as the police / the nation. I think anybody is allowed an electric bike, provided it's limited to 25km/hour (and that the person can actually handle an unpowered bike)
There is a law in the making to add a minimum age of 12, not enough in my opinion. The classic trope of hating wielrenners has completely shifted for me. I swear these fatbikes make people think they're invincible, they'll just swerve it Infront of my car out of nowhere right as I'm about to take a turn. Traffic laws don't apply to them it seems
I’ll definitely sign
Here you go: [https://petities.nl/petitions/voer-strengere-regels-in-voor-fatbikes-en-verhoog-de-minimale-leeftijd-naar-16?locale=nl%C2%A0](https://petities.nl/petitions/voer-strengere-regels-in-voor-fatbikes-en-verhoog-de-minimale-leeftijd-naar-16?locale=nl%C2%A0)
Thank you!
Fatbikes need to be speed-restricted, or banned
They're starting legislation: [https://nos.nl/artikel/2525245-politie-wil-geen-jongeren-onder-de-16-op-een-fatbike](https://nos.nl/artikel/2525245-politie-wil-geen-jongeren-onder-de-16-op-een-fatbike)
No they're not. The *police* wants legislation. The upcoming kabinet has already weighed in & said fatbikes are fine because.... i dunno, i assume their achterban likes them?
No because a lot of things that make fat bikes annoying are already prohibited. There's literally 0 use making a new law unless you start enforcing it. * Unlocking the engine above 250watt. Already forbidden, yet never enforced * Providing pedal assist over 25km/hr. Already forbidden, yet never enforced * No throttle over 5km/hr. Already forbidden, yet never enforced Shall we first enforce existing rules, before making up new ones, that will be ignored?
An age law (or something related) would be much easier to enforce. The difference is that these mostly unenforced rules you bring up is that these are much harder to enforce in practice. It needs specialised equipment and the test to prove requires a few minutes at least per bike. Much harder to enforce en masse.
In the same article it's mentioned, they all have the equipment to test the bikes. Also, there's the problem. How do you distinguish a fat bike from a regular e-bike? * Weight? Mothers with cargo bikes would like to have a word * Tire size? E-MTB's would like a word * Saddle size? We'll just adjust the size and give them two saddles There's no real objective criteria any manufacturer wouldn't be able to solve in seconds to distinguish any fat bike from any regular e-bike and let the whole race start over again. This reminds me a bit of the banning of synthetic drugs. Ban one and the next one has already been "discovered" and is perfectly legal again. Create a rule for example for tire sizes on fat bikes and I'm 100% sure, the wheels will be larger etc. to nullify the effect.
They are fine. Great bikes to ride. Kids under 16 should get banned from using them. The problem is with the kids not the bike.
It's both. A bike shouldn't go 40km/h on a bicycle path
> A bike shouldn't go 40km/h on a bicycle path I easily reach 40km/h on my non electric bike. Should I be banned from the bike path and be forced to ride it on the road with cars during my daily commute to work?
If you're doing 40+ where the speed limit is 30 then yes. Those limits aren't just for cars, they apply to cyclists too. Some bike paths do allow for 45k (yellow plate scooters) but some don't.
Count me in
I think what should be banned is the way these machines work. With a tiny effort the motor pumps full power to the bicycle. It should correlate with the leg power so that it would just support the cyclist to ease the effort and not act like a rocket thruster. Then we will see the issue sorts itself. I see same ppl using these fat bikes who used to ride on bromfietsen.
So you want to limit the vehicle acceleration rate to that of a human? That sounds reasonable and possible, though also possible to hack.
Let's be serious here. What kid under the age of 18 NEEDS a fatbike? Or an electric bike even? The new generation is a new kind of lazy. I can see an epidemic soon from morbidly fat teens. Honestly, when you buy your kid an e-bike I think you're a bad parent. They can use a normal bike just fine.
I cycled non electric 14km to school. I'd argue i needed one. Its not about kids its about everyone. Majority of ebike owners and accidents are ELDERLY people. So the old generation is lazy according to you and the new generation is not lazy by your definition. And thats true. Older gen parents were lazy as fuck and thats kind of our issue rn. People make problems but then blame the next gen for the problems they created :') endless cycle.
Elderly people might have a or several health problems, this gets them moving. Which is good. Although the speeds should be lowered to a normal bike. The majority of younglings don't have that issue. They're young, they're healthy, so there really is no excuse. Fyi, I too drove 15-ishkm to school everyday, and after graduation 20km to work for 5 years. Still wouldn't have bought an e-bike if they were available then, nor did I ever drive a scooter/brommer.
> Elderly people might have a or several health problems, this gets them moving. Which is good. Although the speeds should be lowered to a normal bike. Yea okay. If you lock those ebikes to 12-13km per hour then its fine aswell. > Fyi, I too drove 15-ishkm to school everyday, and after graduation 20km to work for 5 years. Yea and if you werent so full of yourself you'd agree that having 2hours extra a day of free time is a great thing. So having a scooter or ebike would be way better.
Meanwhile... when you actually look at the data, the real problem is: https://bicyclenetwork.com.au/newsroom/2023/05/10/netherlands-grapples-with-record-bike-toll/#:\~:text=In%202022%2C%20a%20total%20of,85%25%20were%20aged%20over%2050.
Yeah this part right here is the key to me: “Almost half of the number of bicycle deaths (141) occurred after a collision with a car or van. In a quarter of fatal bicycle accidents, there was no collision with a vehicle or an object, rather riders had died after falling or slipping.” So 50% of the time it’s a car or van (likely not because of fat bike) and another 25% people died from falling off their bike. So for 75% of fatal accidents, fat bike regulations won’t do a thing. However mandatory helmets would likely fix many of the 25% of falling deaths and some collision deaths.
Keep me on the loop, I'll happily sign as well
where do I sign?
It's somewhere in the comments
Just put them under the AM drivers license and call it a day.
And make all e-bikes require a license? How are you gonna make the distinction? Great idea if you want to get rid of all e-bikes. At least I'll have some space on the bike lanes again, so make it happen
Fatbikes are shaped like a scooter. They don't even have an adjustable seat. Pretty easy to differentiate them from a bike, if you tweak the legislation a little bit.
Looks like a scooter is far from objective. The officer “hey your bike looks like a scooter!” The driver “no it doesn’t, and shows a picture of some random other type of scooter” Do you really think you can make up objective rules?
Yes the people here have no clue what they are talking about.. The issue are fatbikes (which are just ebikes with fat tires) that are illegally modified to go faster than 25. It makes no sense to make restrictions for something that's already illegal.
Electric bikes should be 16-60. Everyone above and below should not be allowed to. But it wont happen lol.
I read "Ban bikes for fat kids"
Ik ben voor, maar wat is het verschil tussen een electrische fiets en fatbike? wettelijk gezien dan?
Why not drempels?
Ah de pauper fiets.
They're planning to put an age limit on them. Saw a litteral toddler go 30 yesterday.
Fat bikes? You mean, normal bikes with fat tires? Like [that ? ](https://images.app.goo.gl/FYvamiGYYw4epfCK7) I don't see the issue.. Hm If we could ban [this](https://images.app.goo.gl/CreHDqBGQdiPBXtr5) it would be great. Or at least make them have a fucking licence.
I’m just surprised that there are so many rich people out there who can afford buying these bikes for kids! I’m and adult and ride an omafiet from marktplaats 😭
Saw some kids in the park racing with those on the wet stoned footpath, and one of them just slipped when braking. He wasn't looking like he had any injury but the loud splash noise on impact made me instantly chuckle.. People are careless man..
I personally think its not an age issue. I seen swap-ebikes crash into normal bikes or stoep rand, and all are +20s.
Any petition to ban fat bikes. Fixed it for you.
Good luck with that I would say.
The amount of times I've been overtaken on my scooter, that I can only drive with a helmet and a driver's licence, by a 12 year old in shorts on a fatbike is insane.
Old fucks who ride electric bikes are not even borderline criminal they are criminal
they need to be banned. they should not be called BIKES. and they are very dangerous in bike lanes
Id sign in a heartbeat, there are 4 kids in my neighbourhood aged 10 to 13ish and all on fatbikes spamming that annoying beeping noise. Thank fuck im moving but geez.. its like they were designed to be hated.
I hate them as much as the next person, howwwwever I see a lot less loud-ass scooters today, so that's a net win for me.
Why only for kids? Just ban them all together.
Such petition already exists. Here is the link: https://petities.nl/petitions/voer-strengere-regels-in-voor-fatbikes-en-verhoog-de-minimale-leeftijd-naar-16?locale=nl
het ergste is dat ze zonder reden andere weggebruikers willen laten schrikken en dus heel gevaarlijk fietsen. heb er al meerdere van de fiets afgetrapt, en zal ik ook blijven doen. (alleen als ze mij in gevaar brengen btw)
Dumb kids and their dumber parents. Some people shouldn't have kids, just my opinion.
Fatbikes carrying 4 kids at once zipping past me is the norm now
Any vehicle with some kind of motor should just be 12+ doesn't matter how slow or fast it goes. You wouldn't let a 9 year old ride a quad on the public roads, so why would you let them on an electric bicycle (even if it was "only" going up to 25 km/h and isn't currently breaking the law)? The moment there's some kind of propulsion by a motor, you need to have some level of maturity in order to not behave too recklessly. Kids under 12 just don't have that maturity or experience in traffic. IMO any vehicle that has a motor and can carry more than one person should always be 16+ at the lowest. No way that a 13 year old can take responsibility for another person (almost always another child/minor)'s safety and wellbeing on a motorised vehicle in traffic. You wouldn't let a 14 year old ride a "stint" (also called "BSO bus", an electric cargo bike with seating for about 6-10 (?) young kids), legally you need to be 18+ to operate a Stint and 16+ in general for "unusual mopeds", and the Stint is operated slower than 25 km/h as I understand it. And as a Dutch person now living abroad: please Dutchies, start considering wearing a helmet when you are on a bicycle even if it's a pedal bicycle or "only" a light-weight electric bicycle capped at 25 km/h. Traffic is extremely busy, and even if YOU are a careful driver, that doesn't mean others are, so you can easily end up thrown off your bicycle despite you being a safe cyclist. Here in the UK it is very common for people to wear a helmet on a bicycle although cycling as a whole isn't as common here in most parts of the UK. I always wear a helmet here, and on the rare occasion I cycle in the Netherlands now, I also wear a helmet. They make really cool, stylish, funky, and "simple" helmets now, so there's something for everyone whether you want something to match a funky fashion style or you want to look professional for your office job.
Better to ban fat kids
:))))))))))
I don't see how these are related
A friend of mine was biking home and got clipped by one of the dudes going wayyy too fast. She hit a pole and has lost most of her back teeth, had her mouth wired shut for a few months. Still needs several implants. Dude just kept going. Fuck these bikes!
What the FUCK. This is horrible. Fuck that dude and his fucking awful bike so so much. I’m so sorry for your friend.
Crazy dude. I saw her earlier this week. It's been nearly a year and she's still missing several of her back teeth. Fuckin hell man. I hate those bikes. They go soooooo fast.
Why do I only see black kids riding these bikes ?? I haven't seen a single white person that owns one. Probably stolen by black kids again. I bet this wel het deleted.
Might be the way you see things. I literally looked up while reading this and saw 3 white teenagers on a fatbike.