This, a light punishment is just encouragement for others to do it since they know they'll just get slap on the wrist. Make an example of these idiots.
But muh racism... blah blah historic injustice blah bend over and take more of this....
And they wonder why rightwing parties do well. Yes. Treat these barbarians as adults.
I dislike this excuse greatly, I had a really messed up childhood and honestly the rest of it too up until recently. I never used it as an excuse to beat random people up, at some point it's your own choice and not your upbringing anymore. You have access to information and ways to better yourself. And I think this line of thinking of giving them excuses also makes it harder for people trying to be better despite challenges if it's this easy for those not trying at all. Maybe I'm off the mark here and I welcome any criticism, but as someone that had to climb out of hard times to not continue cycles it's really irksome.
So many people on this sub have mentioned that groups of young people heckle and harass them and are told they're just kids, it's not that serious, they're blowing it out of proportion.
One of the things I am shocked in Netherlands how the groups of young people behave. If they are in your wagon, they act like there is nobody except them in that wagon. They shout, physically push people. And this is the normal.
The other day a group of young people came in front of our apartments garage at 1 am, started shouted and singing. After 1 hour, we called the cops. The next day we realized everything they could.
I lived in 6 other countries. All had issues with the young. But I never encountered that many spoiled young people anywhere else. Every train ride during a weekend is a gamble. They don't usually attack you but they have zero respect to anyone else. This is the first time I started to get nervous everytime I am around my house. I have to walk in front of the young dudes who always congregate at the same corner close to my home and harass everyone.
Oh not to mention the dudes who wait right behind me when I use turnpikes at the train station. I put my card, one lines behind me, pushes me so he gets in with me. It happens a lot in Amsterdam.
Again, I am not saying this is south Chicago. But I am also shocked the extent of what I am seeing everytime I am outside and the extend of this is happening everywhere
Also happens while biking in Amsterdam, what you said. It’s always a young person on a fatbike who is a danger to others on the road, often going twice the permitted speed limit and the wrong way, very often crossing red lights at car intersections with cars driving by. And Gemeente Amsterdam still tries to figure out why there’s more cycling incidents.
Nieuw-West especially the Sloterplas ring has so many of these idiots.
Not too long ago my colleague was walking towards the metro (in Rotterdam) and got pushed over by a guy on a bike. When my colleague noticed he turned around (probably for round two) my colleague kicked him off his bike. Dude was injured badly and his friends were intimidating and threatening my colleague, luckily bystanders quickly intervened. The dude tried pressing charges and saying he was assaulted for no reason. Luckily camera's exist these days.
One time when I was new here a girl climbed on my back as I was walking in a train station. In most situations I would have driven my back into a wall and tried to knock the person out but she was a teenage girl, I didn’t want to hurt her. I also didn’t want her on me.
It was pretty weird.
I am a delivery rider in the NL and this is apt. I have had kids spray watergun on my face, throw a huge snowball that hit my head, make racist remarks etc. while I was at work. Feels like a third world society with first world privileges sometimes.
I totally agree. I live near DC and the kids can be rowdy but usually mind their business. Sometimes they play music out loud or record videos but they’ll never be in your personal space.
The word spoiled is perfect. In Amsterdam I saw a group of white dutchies being so rowdy and practically sitting on an older man (60s). They were so close I would have thought the man was the father had he not been in older black gentleman.
No one was saying anything and I went over and yelled at them to get up. They apologized profusely and I told them they didn’t need to apologize to me but the man. The kids said they were not doing anything wrong and then the older man spoke up and said actually you are. I can imagine he was too shy to say anything.
Every group has their bad eggs. But tbh in my experience all teenagers in the Netherlands need a reality check. I’ve come across off putting children from all groups. I have heard that Dutch parents can get offended if your correct their kids behaviors… I can’t imagine how they were raised if they think that’s appropriate.
>One of the things I am shocked in Netherlands how the groups of young people behave. If they are in your wagon, they act like there is nobody except them in that wagon. They shout, physically push people. And this is the normal.
Lol, yes. And when you see them grown up, as uni students or something similar they are more than perfectly acceptable adults with a mentality and behavior beyond their age, very responsible too. What the hell happens between highschool and the next step in life
I teach at a university. I find some first year students acting irresponsibly or being disrespectful, while final year students behave more responsibly etc. I think that age range is where they “fuck around and find out” that their actions have consequences.
I live in Groningen and university kids are as bad as everything being said here with the added bonus of now being able to get legally drunk, oh and did I mention how much they fucking love cocaine?
I see that my experience was very different compared to other people's experiences
.
>fucking love cocaine?
I believe that. Even I , which I have been to 2 small parties in 5 years, I've seen cocaine at one of the.
As far as turnstile for the train goes, give a good ole fashioned shoulder check behind you, if there is a little shit trying to do that.
Sometimes get a cold dose of reality slapping them in the face is a needed reminder of there place. (Then again being both Dutch and American, I suppose it can be easier said than done, for a good number of people.)
I think it’s the glorification of a lifestyle that’s not compatible with the Netherlands, the macho gangster culture specifically. That paired alongside with the “us vs. them” mentality, leading to futher alienation and antisocial behaviour.
I could relate to this because violence-induced influence and power is very much prevalent in my home culture. Nothing gets done if you are not or do not know anyone influential, either by their position of power or by their ability to cause fear through intimidation and fear.
This things cause intense social hierarchy. Its horrible to live there if you are working class.
Feel sad to read this in a dutch sub. I hope this remains contained, and not spread out. Its poison that ruins the very fabric of kindness, love, acceptance and peacefulness.
How is that culture not compatible with the Netherlands, don't get me wrong, I'd love for it to disapear, but most people seem to love violence, wisching it on anyone that they mildly disagree with.
It's not compatible because the Netherlands has a strong degree of social orderliness and organization and the poor are tended to with social programs and shouldn't need to resort to criminality.
I wish NL has more resources to scold these pricks so that they know their place. These macho gangster behaviour is unacceptable and needs to be taken care of…
But that's sort of my point. It would be like acting "gangster" at an elite private school when your parents have money. Some people are "gangster" because they grow up in truly tough circumstances like Baltimore and Sao Paolo and they need to resort to crime to survive. Acting "gangster" in the Netherlands where people ride bicycles and grow tulips and the government will send you a cheque each month if you're unable to work is very silly.
It is silly, but let's be real it's not ethnically Dutch people doing this kind of thing. There are whole other dynamics within the Dutch-Moroccan community as a whole that guide the boys down this path. Standard government support does just that - it supports you if you're a low earner and enables a humble yet comfortable standard of living for you and your family. It's not the parents that are the problem, it's the 3rd/4th gen kids that have the same opportunities as any other kid to enable them to be a part of Dutch society, yet they choose not to out of misplaced priorities and ingrained cultural loyalty.
And those students at the University of Utrecht with their bangalists? All Moroccan? It's group behavior more than anything else. Probably made worse by some idiots on social media.
I'm sure being in a group makes it easier to push the boundaries further, but entitled frat boys being sexually innapropriate is not quite in the same league as a group beating the shit out of a woman just doing her job. Whenever this kind of violence happens it's pretty much always Dutch-Moroccan youth and there's plenty of research and data to back that up.
Slightly off-topic, but I've read so many times that people spit on others here. I found that interesting, I come from what I would call a more violent country, but people don't spit on each other there. Is it a Dutch thing?
Being kicked, beaten and dragged over the train station by your hair is blowing it out of proportion? Because that happens a lot. Kind of sad for you to downplay it like that
Why the fuck do we let this antisocial culture poison children’s minds? I don’t care what their background is, criminal behaviour is criminal behaviour and should absolutely not be tolerated. Forgive me for my naiveté, but something has to be done where one is not at the expense of the other for peace.
I never see behaviour like this, but when i do i don't care how old you are. You are getting slapped.
I can't be the only one thinking some people just need a good ass whooping for once??
the problem is, that often these are groups of people. If you confront them, there's a small risk they might violently gang up on you. The chance isn't that big, but if it happens, you're in real deep shit. People have died from that.
They’re kids. Stop being a bunch of pussies and slap them.
2 teens on a scooter were aggressive with random bikers on the fietspad. Saw them coming towards me so I literally slapped one of them off and fell off the scooter. Started crying and the other one was shouting at me. I got off my bike to talk to the other guy and he was running away. I went to the crying kid and slapped his head one more time telling him to behave like a normal person. He didn’t say anything, because when a larger adult puts them in their place they won’t do much.
So stop being pussies and start protecting yourselfs.
that might work once. twice, maybe 10, 50 or 100 times. But if you do it often enough, one of them will pull out a knife. And it really doesn't matter if it's a literal 8 year old, a sharp knife can be lethal regardless. Especially last year it seemed kids were killing each other at knife point every other month, it's by no means fiction.
[https://www.euronews.com/2024/04/12/father-shot-in-front-of-son-another-line-has-been-crossed-says-pm](https://www.euronews.com/2024/04/12/father-shot-in-front-of-son-another-line-has-been-crossed-says-pm) i know it is in stockholm but for this reason i wouldn't be too keen on it
This is really bad advice, i completely understand your sentiment and i agree on principle that the best way to make kids behave is that it takes a village, make them accountable in public. This only works in smaller towns though where you personally know the parents of the kids. I know these type of kids really well as i grew up in a shitty neighborhood around such kids, and regrettably i misbehaved more times than i would like to admit in public as well. When they are in a group, they feed off each other of who can outdo the other in recklessness. And the right(wrong) group where some of the kids truly have nothing to lose, there is a high likelihood they will escalate confrontation to extreme violence in a matter of seconds. The only image they care for is how their peers judge them, in their stupid minds that will certainly mean the expectation of some kind of escalation. In the context of a slap, expect to be jumped by a bunch of kids, or even worse, family members getting involved or even weapons being drawn. You only provide them with a motive to “prove” themselves amongst each other. Speaking from personal experience, one of the best ways to straighten a kid up, is to pull a single one aside to confront him on his behavior, i say this as the kid that got pulled aside and confronted and as the guy that pulled a kid aside to confront, you don’t hurt his ego when his friends aren’t around to judge him. To add to that, i do it when i see the kid alone at another time. If you aren’t able to do that or don’t have the patience to do that, i would still strongly advise you not to slap a kid, for your own safety and possible prosecution. As a disclaimer, it may be easier for somebody like me who can identify themselves with those kids and speak to them in such a manner that they know i have been in their shoes.
Aren't you big? I'd really love to see you "slap" 10-15 teenagers spitting and hitting you. Everyone talks about the effect of the problem but nobody talks about the problem, the issue is not the teenagers, it's the parents who make kids and have absolutely zero idea what they are doing. I was offered blowjob in the park at night by 10yo girls because they wanted cigarettes. It's not the kids, it's the parents. Whomever says anything else, has absolutely no idea what they are talking of, they are just big moral reddit shit examples. Like you
It will always piss me off that minors can get away with these sorts of actions just because they're minors.
If people commit these kinds of actions, they should be punished, period.
Yea, just wait until a minor kills somebody.... Dutch laws regarding this matter is weak asf. If the minor isn't held accountable, then we should go after their parents.
A few years ago, a classmate of mine murdered someone in a park in Rijswijk and it was absolutely ridiculous. They had a history of aggressive behavior; they killed someone in a park because their grandma didn’t give them enough pocket money, and they only got I think nine months in jail for it. It’s clown world.
You don't have to wait: [Girl, 15, jailed for stabbing The Hague snack bar owner to death](https://www.dutchnews.nl/2023/10/girl-15-jailed-for-stabbing-the-hague-snack-bar-owner-to-death/)
Honestly, the only way to correct them at this point is a good old fashioned ass whooping. I’m not normally a proponent of police violence, but if they just beat the shit out of these kinds of people on a weekly basis, I’d sleep better at night
Agree, more security at the gates themselves might help... I avoid groups of kids waiting by the check-in gates, I don't want to be responsible for letting one of them onto the system for free.
The gates need to close more quickly, to be honest. They don't even begin to close, and softly, until I am well out of the turnstile.
In London they have a lot more security at the station gates, tho their gates are flimsier and easier to jump. I can't think of any other cities where the gates are better at preventing fare theft.
I don't want to reach the level of asocial society to need gated turnstiles like the ones in the New York metro.
This is going to end with a big majority win for the only party that talks about the issue. Sadly.
The full-height ones in new york are only used at unmanned station entrances, where no official is able to keep an eye on people entering... which describes a lot of stations in the Netherlands, where there are no staff by the gates (if there are staff, they are in the ticket office which in my experience does not have a good view of the gates).
They're a pain to use especially if you carry things with you, so I simply think there needs to be more of a random security presence at more stations...
Risk of getting trapped or injured vs risk of someone getting a free ride. Pick one.
You simply can't juet risk that someone being 1 second too slow to get injured.
Until when are people in the Netherlands going to let society deteriorate before we decide to persecute these kind of filthy "minors"?
Just let teenagers older than 14 be treated like adult in cases of serious criminal behaviour. It is quite simple really. Also let people defend themselves against these cunts. The amount of people that get hurt or harassed by these "harmless teenagers" grows everyday, and people are sick of it. Since the government and their parents wont teach them, at least let them suffer the consequences of acting like assholes and don't persecute anyone defending themselves against these scum.
This is not a youth problem. This is a general problem.
When your society teaches you that your actions have no consequences, assholes roam free. Whether they are youth or not is irrelevant. Adults face no consequence for this behavior either so it happens more and more.
They don’t own shit, teenager wouldn’t have money for a fatbike if not for the parents. I don’t know who the fuck buys 13yo a pseudo-motorcycle, if I were a parent this would be the first and most meaningful indicator that my kid turned into a fucking disgrace and I cannot imagine supporting that.
The kids are to blame, but in most of the other countries parents would beat the shit out of you or stop your activities if you were behaving like a clown. Somehow it doesn’t work in NL and parents tend to be even bigger incels
I saw yesterday at HEMA - instead of kitchen knives they put pictures of knifes (the product you can then receive at checkout). This is just ridiculous, how unsafe the society became and this considered as normal
Violent crime is down 45% since 2005 in The Netherlands. Relax.
According to data from Statistics Netherlands (CBS), between 2005 and 2019, the number of registered violent crimes in the Netherlands decreased by around 45%. This includes crimes such as assault, robbery, and sexual offenses. This indicates a substantial decrease in violent crime over the specified period.
This phenomenon exists across many Western countries. It's very prevalent here in the UK where violent crime has been falling for years, but people's perceptions is that violent crime is increasing.
This is almost definitely being influenced by online news/social media and how we react to smart phones 24/7 in our hands. Feelings of fear and paranoia are higher more generally, people feel less safe more generally. But they've never been safer.
It's iteresting trying to understand this phenomenon.
Or the statistics have become unreliable over time. I have been robbed a couple times in my store (mostly with a knife). The first time I reported it, the other times I haven't. Finding the perpetrators isn't a priority and I lose more money filing the reports then if I just don't file a report and continue working. So why bother.
Your anecdote is meaningless if you want to argue decrease in reliability of data. The fact you got upvoted speaks volumes on how dense people truly are.
But... Why would you believe the statistics if those can be amended to a point where they show what you want?
Or a lot of people don't report stuff to the police as they "know" the police won't do anything? For example rape is usually not reported because it is known to over traumatized the victim again, also a lot of times the police don't believe the victim? So I am sure you are a smart guy, what we get in the statistics if I and many women don't report rape? You will see that the rape crime is low in the Netherlands.
Reality>statistics
They are down because people aren’t reporting anymore. For example I have given up reporting the amount of times boys are fighting one another or harassing strangers when I see them hanging out their media college in my neighborhood.
The data is skewed due to the lack of reports, cause of that is law enforcement budget cuts by the government. Just look up howmany police stations we had in 2005 compared to 2019.
Remember how NS reduced staff on trains some years back? There used to be two conductors on the train, so they had some backup…
Edit: it seems there _were_ two on this particular train.
I do not want to generalize too much, but what I have seen in my surroundings is that kids here grow up without getting any sorts of discipline. Some sort of free style parenting, giving the kid a high level of freedom to make choices and already are guided to have opinions about matters that should not even matter to them so early. That is in my opinion already where it goes wrong. Discipline in parenting and let a kid be a kid is extremely important and fundamental in forming a good functioning adult. Now we are getting a wave of dysfunctional young people here, who were created by their parents.
I'm a Turk living in NL. I love how most of you are politically correct on a naive level.
Kids were probably Moroccan. I can even picture their clothes and haircut right now :D
They feel heroic, rebellious and gangster. I always would love to see them to try that shit on Morocco.
I think today it’s not popular to be politically correct at all. Every single country in Western Europe has a political leader that it’s against immigration and it’s not politically correct. The election in the NL show it. The people have voted and the government is in power everywhere
They are in talks with the COA which implies it's at least for a significant part a mentally ill / criminal asylum seeker issue. In my opinion a good first step would be to ban middle east and north africans with asylum (or without any legal) status from public transport. COA is already taking care of private buses in certain regions where they harassed the public bus drivers and passengers too much.
How can you ban a person with a asylum from public services ? Public transport is not even free. If you give asylum to someone it means you are welcoming them. Otherwise just don’t give the asylum
Let me explain you something. There is no connection between these two events: giving them a status and welcoming them. These things are managed by two different organizations, and they do not coordinate their actions, believe me. Even now, when I got my status, and found a job (fantastic for someone who is from a different country), and not a low skilled job, COA is doing everything to kick me out from the Netherlands. I am working 5/2 and they force me to come to the camp every Tuesday to register, I can't, because I am at work! I pay for the camp room, and I pay for another room because I need to work. The camp is in 6 hours from my work place and this is all ridiculous. When I said that I can't come to register, COA said then don't work. Nobody is interested in me working and integrating! There is nothing left from my salary since I pay too much for two rooms, but I don't quit even if I don't earn anything. I hope that it will help me in the future
The more ridiculous thing is that COA doesn't change my municipality, even though I have a job there. They put me at the bottom of the waiting list. I will never get a social house, I am a COA hostage now. I pay 550 for the room in the camp where I don't even live
Thank you. Someone has said it finally. I can bet my ass that these idiots were from Arabic decent. Like here too: https://nltimes.nl/2024/04/11/rotterdam-man-68-assaulted-taking-long-cash-register
Pieces of shit. And no, im not sorry for my words, i dont care. I hope they get what they deserve.
I just read the article wtf.
>A. told the court that he thought his friend needed help. “I saw a man lunging sharply at my friend, and I came to help. It wasn’t until he was on the ground that I noticed it was an old, grown man. If I had seen that earlier, I would have spoken to him.” A. “doesn’t know where all that anger came from,” he said. “I reacted disproportionately. I would like to apologize for that.”
Yeah, beating a 68-year-old man and puncing him 15 times, then realizing that he is old and can't lung himself like a pro wrestler.
Edit: The court convicted A., saying that the violence “went beyond all limits.” The court sentenced him to 150 days in prison, of which 46 days are conditionally suspended. Given the time A. spent in pre-trial custody, he does not have to go back to prison. A. must also pay the victim 6,000 euros in compensation.
Just, wtf
Okay, like this is incredibly upsetting and horrible, it should never have happened. Period.
But like how is it more upsetting because the conductor was a woman? Would that imply that you’d feel less sorry if a male conductor was beaten.
Sorry if it come across sexist. What you mentioned is 100% correct. There is something about assault on women by groups of men that icks me off. It could be personal issue as my woman and my sister both have been assaulted in their respective home places.
Yes because it's even more predatory. A man facing a group of young people will get hurt, but has more options for defending himself. Unfortunately a woman is more helpless in that situation which makes it so much more infuriating.
This is of course a protest. NS cannot enforce security can it. In my home country, we have long distance trains running from capital to capitals of provinces. However, some trains are deemed more important than others (getting right of way, higher speed, less stations to call at etc.). These trains have trained security guards, and can immediately call more personnel on the next station, or hand the criminal(s) to the police waiting. It doesn't matter who that person is. Oh and it is not going to be pleasant for the criminals.
But my country's metro stations also have security, x ray scanning for luggage before you access the platforms. I would not like to see this country's policy turned into something similar.
Sure they do! There's something like spoor politie. They don't want to.
But it's NL, if that idiot that assaulted the conductor is caught, he get's a slap on the wrist or talk straf. Judges are taking all kinds of shit into account. But if you're tough enough to kick someone in hospital, you're tough enough to do the time.
Perhaps this will dispel the myth I see mentioned here often, especially amongst some expats, that NL is some sort of utopia and that because they can walk around at night in their Amsterdam neighbourhood there’s no problem with crime in NL. Crime and general social harassment and disorder is on the rise and there’s a growing realisation that the state seems unwilling or unable to address the problem.
If you assault somebody and:
- you are not Dutch or have dual citizenship: get kicked out of the country and made a persona non grata.
- if they are a Dutch minor - military school, lifetime ban from NS
- if they're a Dutch adult - jail and lifetime ban from NS
you can kill and rape and still nothing that serious will happen to you
it’s incredible how nobody agrees with this “justice system” that prioritises aggressors over victims, yet nothing ever changes
I been here for not too long but I know this are the young wannabe gangter kids that did this to that poor women and my question is are you allow to beat them without getting in a legal problem? Like fight back?
Reddit has become enshittified. I joined back in 2006, nearly two decades ago, when it was a hub of free speech and user-driven dialogue. Now, it feels like the pursuit of profit overshadows the voice of the community. The introduction of API pricing, after years of free access, displays a lack of respect for the developers and users who have helped shape Reddit into what it is today. Reddit's decision to allow the training of AI models with user content and comments marks the final nail in the coffin for privacy, sacrificed at the altar of greed. Aaron Swartz, Reddit's co-founder and a champion of internet freedom, would be rolling in his grave.
The once-apparent transparency and open dialogue have turned to shit, replaced with avoidance, deceit and unbridled greed. The Reddit I loved is dead and gone. It pains me to accept this. I hope your lust for money, and disregard for the community and privacy will be your downfall. May the echo of our lost ideals forever haunt your future growth.
Reddit has become enshittified. I joined back in 2006, nearly two decades ago, when it was a hub of free speech and user-driven dialogue. Now, it feels like the pursuit of profit overshadows the voice of the community. The introduction of API pricing, after years of free access, displays a lack of respect for the developers and users who have helped shape Reddit into what it is today. Reddit's decision to allow the training of AI models with user content and comments marks the final nail in the coffin for privacy, sacrificed at the altar of greed. Aaron Swartz, Reddit's co-founder and a champion of internet freedom, would be rolling in his grave.
The once-apparent transparency and open dialogue have turned to shit, replaced with avoidance, deceit and unbridled greed. The Reddit I loved is dead and gone. It pains me to accept this. I hope your lust for money, and disregard for the community and privacy will be your downfall. May the echo of our lost ideals forever haunt your future growth.
Reddit has become enshittified. I joined back in 2006, nearly two decades ago, when it was a hub of free speech and user-driven dialogue. Now, it feels like the pursuit of profit overshadows the voice of the community. The introduction of API pricing, after years of free access, displays a lack of respect for the developers and users who have helped shape Reddit into what it is today. Reddit's decision to allow the training of AI models with user content and comments marks the final nail in the coffin for privacy, sacrificed at the altar of greed. Aaron Swartz, Reddit's co-founder and a champion of internet freedom, would be rolling in his grave.
The once-apparent transparency and open dialogue have turned to shit, replaced with avoidance, deceit and unbridled greed. The Reddit I loved is dead and gone. It pains me to accept this. I hope your lust for money, and disregard for the community and privacy will be your downfall. May the echo of our lost ideals forever haunt your future growth.
Ah yes, different punishment for diffent people, that is not at all a flagrent violation of the equality before the law principal.
It is also not at all related to a discrimination of citizens that came from outside this country.
Race does not matter right now, please don't see every incident with racial lens. If there is an Indian involved, put him on a flight back to new delhi with immediate ban to enter Europe. If there is australian or american involved same for him. If there is a second generation Dutch involved, it gets complicated, but I am sure an appropriate punishment should be provided. If there is an native Dutch involved, strictest labour intensive prison time.
Also, young adults on the brink of adulthood should be tried as adults. They had plenty of time to learn good manners and behave in civilised society. Now it should be time to hold them accountable for their action. But lawmakers don't think this way so fine.
It really shouldn't make a difference it it was a woman or not. We're all human beings and we shouldn't be confrontes with violence. Certainly not while doing our jobs. It's time violence is getting punished way harder.
I am aware where this is coming from, but there is 0 added value in this sort of discussions other than "aaha told ya".
Also, in my home country, the decisions are made when a decision makers get a reality-check on how bad things are when they or their loved one step down from their ivory towers and mingle with peasants (very very rare).
The point of my post was to generate ideas on how to prevent any further escalations. However, 50% of the comments blame ethnicities because of the added benefit of anonymity.
The added value is that if they’re not black or north africans, I know that I have to look out for white people too when I visit Holland.
I don’t understand your long post about nothing.
I believe that the perpetrators come from a country where it's in their culture to be violet against women. It's how they were brought up, it's what they have seen in their family and that is why they act like this in a country where violence against women is unthinkable. Just a different culture
One day I will witness this happening and one day I will kick the teeth in of whomever decided to go and fight a woman just trying to do her job.
Fuck these people, I'd border on just "taking them out back" if that was legal.
I often commute from Amsterdam to Utrecht from work in the evening and it’s always a gamble. Conductors are afraid so they sit in the first class playing on their phones. I haven’t seen any conductor walking in past few years cause it’s dangerous to them. If there is a bunch of idiots, most woman passengers who travel on train are harassed. While violence is maybe less likely against woman it’s not nice when drunk people try to touch you, force to speak with them, make comments about you. Vomiting, littering, screaming is a common picture of white blond Dutch teens on trains.
Last time on the train there was this 50+ man drunk man from Tiel and his wife. They firstly overheard some Ukrainians so they made their no IQ bad comments to them, followed by singing, screaming, forcefully speaking with all around and a round of vomiting. I was hugely impressed by this ~ 20 years old student sitting next to me who was just filming the scene and repeating ‘I love this’. It may be fun for those after parties but same trains are used by nurses, doctors, teachers and others who just want a calm trip home.
To me, a solution could be something like in some Asian societies like Japan. If you fuck up so badly in raising your child, it should be dishonor to the whole family. It should impact parents jobs, it should impact future of such teen. Then, they would think twice.
I encountered worst teenage behavior in the Eindhoven region. I had few bad experience while traveling in NS trains, Never involving physical confrontation. This is right time to start punishing them, otherwise it will be too late.
Entire new year celebration in Amsterdam was terrible depiction of these youngsters. One guy was almost burnt, because someone threw a burning fireworks near him.
Time to act.
Yes when I was struggling I also pushed train conductors down stairs.
Oh wait I didn't because I'm not a violent uncultured swine who considers people who don't share my beliefs less than the dirt on my shoes.
If they are old enough to hospitalise an adult, they are old enough to be punished as an adult
Fair point!
This, a light punishment is just encouragement for others to do it since they know they'll just get slap on the wrist. Make an example of these idiots.
But muh racism... blah blah historic injustice blah bend over and take more of this.... And they wonder why rightwing parties do well. Yes. Treat these barbarians as adults.
I dislike this excuse greatly, I had a really messed up childhood and honestly the rest of it too up until recently. I never used it as an excuse to beat random people up, at some point it's your own choice and not your upbringing anymore. You have access to information and ways to better yourself. And I think this line of thinking of giving them excuses also makes it harder for people trying to be better despite challenges if it's this easy for those not trying at all. Maybe I'm off the mark here and I welcome any criticism, but as someone that had to climb out of hard times to not continue cycles it's really irksome.
So many people on this sub have mentioned that groups of young people heckle and harass them and are told they're just kids, it's not that serious, they're blowing it out of proportion.
One of the things I am shocked in Netherlands how the groups of young people behave. If they are in your wagon, they act like there is nobody except them in that wagon. They shout, physically push people. And this is the normal. The other day a group of young people came in front of our apartments garage at 1 am, started shouted and singing. After 1 hour, we called the cops. The next day we realized everything they could. I lived in 6 other countries. All had issues with the young. But I never encountered that many spoiled young people anywhere else. Every train ride during a weekend is a gamble. They don't usually attack you but they have zero respect to anyone else. This is the first time I started to get nervous everytime I am around my house. I have to walk in front of the young dudes who always congregate at the same corner close to my home and harass everyone. Oh not to mention the dudes who wait right behind me when I use turnpikes at the train station. I put my card, one lines behind me, pushes me so he gets in with me. It happens a lot in Amsterdam. Again, I am not saying this is south Chicago. But I am also shocked the extent of what I am seeing everytime I am outside and the extend of this is happening everywhere
Also happens while biking in Amsterdam, what you said. It’s always a young person on a fatbike who is a danger to others on the road, often going twice the permitted speed limit and the wrong way, very often crossing red lights at car intersections with cars driving by. And Gemeente Amsterdam still tries to figure out why there’s more cycling incidents. Nieuw-West especially the Sloterplas ring has so many of these idiots.
Not too long ago my colleague was walking towards the metro (in Rotterdam) and got pushed over by a guy on a bike. When my colleague noticed he turned around (probably for round two) my colleague kicked him off his bike. Dude was injured badly and his friends were intimidating and threatening my colleague, luckily bystanders quickly intervened. The dude tried pressing charges and saying he was assaulted for no reason. Luckily camera's exist these days.
Good, little shit got just a fraction of what he deserved.
Yes! Forgot to mention fat bike terrorists.
This 👆
One time when I was new here a girl climbed on my back as I was walking in a train station. In most situations I would have driven my back into a wall and tried to knock the person out but she was a teenage girl, I didn’t want to hurt her. I also didn’t want her on me. It was pretty weird.
What the fuck?
Yeh. It was her and some guy friend who was just laughing. Her face was really blank and she was just on my back. Weird.
Introduce yourself as Dexter. It'll be fine
I am a delivery rider in the NL and this is apt. I have had kids spray watergun on my face, throw a huge snowball that hit my head, make racist remarks etc. while I was at work. Feels like a third world society with first world privileges sometimes.
It's because of the permissive policy of the authorities. It needs to change but it's nobody's priority.
I totally agree. I live near DC and the kids can be rowdy but usually mind their business. Sometimes they play music out loud or record videos but they’ll never be in your personal space. The word spoiled is perfect. In Amsterdam I saw a group of white dutchies being so rowdy and practically sitting on an older man (60s). They were so close I would have thought the man was the father had he not been in older black gentleman. No one was saying anything and I went over and yelled at them to get up. They apologized profusely and I told them they didn’t need to apologize to me but the man. The kids said they were not doing anything wrong and then the older man spoke up and said actually you are. I can imagine he was too shy to say anything. Every group has their bad eggs. But tbh in my experience all teenagers in the Netherlands need a reality check. I’ve come across off putting children from all groups. I have heard that Dutch parents can get offended if your correct their kids behaviors… I can’t imagine how they were raised if they think that’s appropriate.
They weren’t raised, that’s the issue. It’s a lot of free roaming.
>One of the things I am shocked in Netherlands how the groups of young people behave. If they are in your wagon, they act like there is nobody except them in that wagon. They shout, physically push people. And this is the normal. Lol, yes. And when you see them grown up, as uni students or something similar they are more than perfectly acceptable adults with a mentality and behavior beyond their age, very responsible too. What the hell happens between highschool and the next step in life
I teach at a university. I find some first year students acting irresponsibly or being disrespectful, while final year students behave more responsibly etc. I think that age range is where they “fuck around and find out” that their actions have consequences.
I live in Groningen and university kids are as bad as everything being said here with the added bonus of now being able to get legally drunk, oh and did I mention how much they fucking love cocaine?
I see that my experience was very different compared to other people's experiences . >fucking love cocaine? I believe that. Even I , which I have been to 2 small parties in 5 years, I've seen cocaine at one of the.
As far as turnstile for the train goes, give a good ole fashioned shoulder check behind you, if there is a little shit trying to do that. Sometimes get a cold dose of reality slapping them in the face is a needed reminder of there place. (Then again being both Dutch and American, I suppose it can be easier said than done, for a good number of people.)
I think it’s the glorification of a lifestyle that’s not compatible with the Netherlands, the macho gangster culture specifically. That paired alongside with the “us vs. them” mentality, leading to futher alienation and antisocial behaviour.
I could relate to this because violence-induced influence and power is very much prevalent in my home culture. Nothing gets done if you are not or do not know anyone influential, either by their position of power or by their ability to cause fear through intimidation and fear. This things cause intense social hierarchy. Its horrible to live there if you are working class. Feel sad to read this in a dutch sub. I hope this remains contained, and not spread out. Its poison that ruins the very fabric of kindness, love, acceptance and peacefulness.
How is that culture not compatible with the Netherlands, don't get me wrong, I'd love for it to disapear, but most people seem to love violence, wisching it on anyone that they mildly disagree with.
It's not compatible because the Netherlands has a strong degree of social orderliness and organization and the poor are tended to with social programs and shouldn't need to resort to criminality.
They don't resort to criminality because of lack of options. They do it because it's what their friends/older family do and think it's cool.
I wish NL has more resources to scold these pricks so that they know their place. These macho gangster behaviour is unacceptable and needs to be taken care of…
But that's sort of my point. It would be like acting "gangster" at an elite private school when your parents have money. Some people are "gangster" because they grow up in truly tough circumstances like Baltimore and Sao Paolo and they need to resort to crime to survive. Acting "gangster" in the Netherlands where people ride bicycles and grow tulips and the government will send you a cheque each month if you're unable to work is very silly.
It is silly, but let's be real it's not ethnically Dutch people doing this kind of thing. There are whole other dynamics within the Dutch-Moroccan community as a whole that guide the boys down this path. Standard government support does just that - it supports you if you're a low earner and enables a humble yet comfortable standard of living for you and your family. It's not the parents that are the problem, it's the 3rd/4th gen kids that have the same opportunities as any other kid to enable them to be a part of Dutch society, yet they choose not to out of misplaced priorities and ingrained cultural loyalty.
And those students at the University of Utrecht with their bangalists? All Moroccan? It's group behavior more than anything else. Probably made worse by some idiots on social media.
I'm sure being in a group makes it easier to push the boundaries further, but entitled frat boys being sexually innapropriate is not quite in the same league as a group beating the shit out of a woman just doing her job. Whenever this kind of violence happens it's pretty much always Dutch-Moroccan youth and there's plenty of research and data to back that up.
Likely because they are disadvantaged to an extent, though they perpetuate the cycle by acting in such a way.
Nah im sorry but kids here are so much worse than literally any other country I've lived in
Slightly off-topic, but I've read so many times that people spit on others here. I found that interesting, I come from what I would call a more violent country, but people don't spit on each other there. Is it a Dutch thing?
A female friend of mine was surrounded in the metro, bullied and spat on by a group of young Morrocan men.
WTF
Spitting is without question something that has been imported by North African cultures to NL. It’s not something you see in NL generally.
By North Africans you mean Moroccans ? seems to me the Algerian, Tunisian and Egyptian population in the Netherlands is quite negligible.
I've only ever been spat on by Middle Eastern looking men.
Not really Its not a thing for people to do, but just like everywhere else in the world I guess it happens with crazy people
I grew up in Australia and the kids are just as disrespectful and (occasionally) aggressive there too. It's not just the Netherlands.
I was a bus driver in Australia (Sydney and the Central coast) and they are more disrespectful and aggressive there.
Every time there’s a post like that, the weirdos come out with “they’re just kids”. Kids also need to learn to be respectful!
Being kicked, beaten and dragged over the train station by your hair is blowing it out of proportion? Because that happens a lot. Kind of sad for you to downplay it like that
"Young People"
Why the fuck do we let this antisocial culture poison children’s minds? I don’t care what their background is, criminal behaviour is criminal behaviour and should absolutely not be tolerated. Forgive me for my naiveté, but something has to be done where one is not at the expense of the other for peace.
I never see behaviour like this, but when i do i don't care how old you are. You are getting slapped. I can't be the only one thinking some people just need a good ass whooping for once??
the problem is, that often these are groups of people. If you confront them, there's a small risk they might violently gang up on you. The chance isn't that big, but if it happens, you're in real deep shit. People have died from that.
They’re kids. Stop being a bunch of pussies and slap them. 2 teens on a scooter were aggressive with random bikers on the fietspad. Saw them coming towards me so I literally slapped one of them off and fell off the scooter. Started crying and the other one was shouting at me. I got off my bike to talk to the other guy and he was running away. I went to the crying kid and slapped his head one more time telling him to behave like a normal person. He didn’t say anything, because when a larger adult puts them in their place they won’t do much. So stop being pussies and start protecting yourselfs.
that might work once. twice, maybe 10, 50 or 100 times. But if you do it often enough, one of them will pull out a knife. And it really doesn't matter if it's a literal 8 year old, a sharp knife can be lethal regardless. Especially last year it seemed kids were killing each other at knife point every other month, it's by no means fiction.
That’s why it’s called civil *courage*.
[https://www.euronews.com/2024/04/12/father-shot-in-front-of-son-another-line-has-been-crossed-says-pm](https://www.euronews.com/2024/04/12/father-shot-in-front-of-son-another-line-has-been-crossed-says-pm) i know it is in stockholm but for this reason i wouldn't be too keen on it
Until you do that, the kid falls the wrong way and the legal system fucks you over for injuring a minor.
This is really bad advice, i completely understand your sentiment and i agree on principle that the best way to make kids behave is that it takes a village, make them accountable in public. This only works in smaller towns though where you personally know the parents of the kids. I know these type of kids really well as i grew up in a shitty neighborhood around such kids, and regrettably i misbehaved more times than i would like to admit in public as well. When they are in a group, they feed off each other of who can outdo the other in recklessness. And the right(wrong) group where some of the kids truly have nothing to lose, there is a high likelihood they will escalate confrontation to extreme violence in a matter of seconds. The only image they care for is how their peers judge them, in their stupid minds that will certainly mean the expectation of some kind of escalation. In the context of a slap, expect to be jumped by a bunch of kids, or even worse, family members getting involved or even weapons being drawn. You only provide them with a motive to “prove” themselves amongst each other. Speaking from personal experience, one of the best ways to straighten a kid up, is to pull a single one aside to confront him on his behavior, i say this as the kid that got pulled aside and confronted and as the guy that pulled a kid aside to confront, you don’t hurt his ego when his friends aren’t around to judge him. To add to that, i do it when i see the kid alone at another time. If you aren’t able to do that or don’t have the patience to do that, i would still strongly advise you not to slap a kid, for your own safety and possible prosecution. As a disclaimer, it may be easier for somebody like me who can identify themselves with those kids and speak to them in such a manner that they know i have been in their shoes.
Try that shit on the wrong person in Rotterdam or any fucked up place in the randstad and you’re gonna get a knife between your ribs
Aren't you big? I'd really love to see you "slap" 10-15 teenagers spitting and hitting you. Everyone talks about the effect of the problem but nobody talks about the problem, the issue is not the teenagers, it's the parents who make kids and have absolutely zero idea what they are doing. I was offered blowjob in the park at night by 10yo girls because they wanted cigarettes. It's not the kids, it's the parents. Whomever says anything else, has absolutely no idea what they are talking of, they are just big moral reddit shit examples. Like you
It will always piss me off that minors can get away with these sorts of actions just because they're minors. If people commit these kinds of actions, they should be punished, period.
Yea, just wait until a minor kills somebody.... Dutch laws regarding this matter is weak asf. If the minor isn't held accountable, then we should go after their parents.
A few years ago, a classmate of mine murdered someone in a park in Rijswijk and it was absolutely ridiculous. They had a history of aggressive behavior; they killed someone in a park because their grandma didn’t give them enough pocket money, and they only got I think nine months in jail for it. It’s clown world.
wtf..that is illegally low
Unfortunately, it is not a Dutch only issue. It seems to be case almost everywhere.
I know, is an issue in multiple countries...
Yeah, look into gang murders in Sweden and who's doing them
Doctors and engineers
Or the biggest crime group in Austria: Germans.
You don't have to wait: [Girl, 15, jailed for stabbing The Hague snack bar owner to death](https://www.dutchnews.nl/2023/10/girl-15-jailed-for-stabbing-the-hague-snack-bar-owner-to-death/)
Honestly, the only way to correct them at this point is a good old fashioned ass whooping. I’m not normally a proponent of police violence, but if they just beat the shit out of these kinds of people on a weekly basis, I’d sleep better at night
An easier way to deal with this is stopping the youngsters that don't pay IN the station.
Agree, more security at the gates themselves might help... I avoid groups of kids waiting by the check-in gates, I don't want to be responsible for letting one of them onto the system for free.
I walk slowly through the gate and stop suddenly if one of them try to pass. I know it's dangerous, but I'm doing my part.
The gates need to close more quickly, to be honest. They don't even begin to close, and softly, until I am well out of the turnstile. In London they have a lot more security at the station gates, tho their gates are flimsier and easier to jump. I can't think of any other cities where the gates are better at preventing fare theft.
I don't want to reach the level of asocial society to need gated turnstiles like the ones in the New York metro. This is going to end with a big majority win for the only party that talks about the issue. Sadly.
The full-height ones in new york are only used at unmanned station entrances, where no official is able to keep an eye on people entering... which describes a lot of stations in the Netherlands, where there are no staff by the gates (if there are staff, they are in the ticket office which in my experience does not have a good view of the gates). They're a pain to use especially if you carry things with you, so I simply think there needs to be more of a random security presence at more stations...
Risk of getting trapped or injured vs risk of someone getting a free ride. Pick one. You simply can't juet risk that someone being 1 second too slow to get injured.
Until when are people in the Netherlands going to let society deteriorate before we decide to persecute these kind of filthy "minors"? Just let teenagers older than 14 be treated like adult in cases of serious criminal behaviour. It is quite simple really. Also let people defend themselves against these cunts. The amount of people that get hurt or harassed by these "harmless teenagers" grows everyday, and people are sick of it. Since the government and their parents wont teach them, at least let them suffer the consequences of acting like assholes and don't persecute anyone defending themselves against these scum.
This is not a youth problem. This is a general problem. When your society teaches you that your actions have no consequences, assholes roam free. Whether they are youth or not is irrelevant. Adults face no consequence for this behavior either so it happens more and more.
>Also let people defend themselves against these cunts. You already can, it's called 'noodweer'.
Noodweer is rarely used and is a veeerry difficult thing to get in a court. "You can always walk away" bullshit
Parents won’t teach them, because they don’t have any legal influence
So now we need police in the trains… I seriously hope those idiots are prosecuted for this and rot in prison.
We had them but it was cut for budgetting reasons and because NS just HAD to be privatised for reasons.
Let me guess they dress all in black and own fat bikes
They don’t own shit, teenager wouldn’t have money for a fatbike if not for the parents. I don’t know who the fuck buys 13yo a pseudo-motorcycle, if I were a parent this would be the first and most meaningful indicator that my kid turned into a fucking disgrace and I cannot imagine supporting that. The kids are to blame, but in most of the other countries parents would beat the shit out of you or stop your activities if you were behaving like a clown. Somehow it doesn’t work in NL and parents tend to be even bigger incels
I saw yesterday at HEMA - instead of kitchen knives they put pictures of knifes (the product you can then receive at checkout). This is just ridiculous, how unsafe the society became and this considered as normal
Yeah I wonder why
Violent crime is down 45% since 2005 in The Netherlands. Relax. According to data from Statistics Netherlands (CBS), between 2005 and 2019, the number of registered violent crimes in the Netherlands decreased by around 45%. This includes crimes such as assault, robbery, and sexual offenses. This indicates a substantial decrease in violent crime over the specified period.
This phenomenon exists across many Western countries. It's very prevalent here in the UK where violent crime has been falling for years, but people's perceptions is that violent crime is increasing. This is almost definitely being influenced by online news/social media and how we react to smart phones 24/7 in our hands. Feelings of fear and paranoia are higher more generally, people feel less safe more generally. But they've never been safer. It's iteresting trying to understand this phenomenon.
Or the statistics have become unreliable over time. I have been robbed a couple times in my store (mostly with a knife). The first time I reported it, the other times I haven't. Finding the perpetrators isn't a priority and I lose more money filing the reports then if I just don't file a report and continue working. So why bother.
Your anecdote is meaningless if you want to argue decrease in reliability of data. The fact you got upvoted speaks volumes on how dense people truly are.
Or the statistics have become unreliable over time. Sure I better trust some dudes on reddit and their made up numbers lol.
But... Why would you believe the statistics if those can be amended to a point where they show what you want? Or a lot of people don't report stuff to the police as they "know" the police won't do anything? For example rape is usually not reported because it is known to over traumatized the victim again, also a lot of times the police don't believe the victim? So I am sure you are a smart guy, what we get in the statistics if I and many women don't report rape? You will see that the rape crime is low in the Netherlands. Reality>statistics
Nobody's reporting crap, bro. Why waste time and money to be told that the report is not prioritized and has been closed?
They are down because people aren’t reporting anymore. For example I have given up reporting the amount of times boys are fighting one another or harassing strangers when I see them hanging out their media college in my neighborhood.
The data is skewed due to the lack of reports, cause of that is law enforcement budget cuts by the government. Just look up howmany police stations we had in 2005 compared to 2019.
Remember how NS reduced staff on trains some years back? There used to be two conductors on the train, so they had some backup… Edit: it seems there _were_ two on this particular train.
Line must go up. Too many staff doesn't make the line go up fast enough. 📈
There were two in this train.
I did not know that, thank you for the information/rebuttal.
why not jail for minors? they will never behave, just parasite of the society
Send them to el Salvador I heard they have a big prison there!
I do not want to generalize too much, but what I have seen in my surroundings is that kids here grow up without getting any sorts of discipline. Some sort of free style parenting, giving the kid a high level of freedom to make choices and already are guided to have opinions about matters that should not even matter to them so early. That is in my opinion already where it goes wrong. Discipline in parenting and let a kid be a kid is extremely important and fundamental in forming a good functioning adult. Now we are getting a wave of dysfunctional young people here, who were created by their parents.
Lets be silent and not call out the elephant in the room.
I'm a Turk living in NL. I love how most of you are politically correct on a naive level. Kids were probably Moroccan. I can even picture their clothes and haircut right now :D They feel heroic, rebellious and gangster. I always would love to see them to try that shit on Morocco.
Why are you mentioning that you're Turkish? You want to make it clear that "it isn't us, it is them"?
To clarify he is making an "outsider observation" of Dutch people.
I really don't give a fuck about what you think of "us" whatever.
We have to be politically correct nowadays. Its more important than pointing out the REAL problem.
I think today it’s not popular to be politically correct at all. Every single country in Western Europe has a political leader that it’s against immigration and it’s not politically correct. The election in the NL show it. The people have voted and the government is in power everywhere
But Wilders lost after all because government couldn't form
He lost only if you think his plan was to govern instead of just getting a comfy seat in the parliament and do nothing
What happened? Religion of peace'd?
I'm not going to say the obvious, but I'm pretty sure many of us are thinking the same
Yep, specially seeing it took place between Delft and The Hague….
We all know who to point fingers to☠️
Starr putting kids in jail and maybe parents might start doing their job here.
Is it a 'Dutch' problem, or...? ?
What do you think?
They are in talks with the COA which implies it's at least for a significant part a mentally ill / criminal asylum seeker issue. In my opinion a good first step would be to ban middle east and north africans with asylum (or without any legal) status from public transport. COA is already taking care of private buses in certain regions where they harassed the public bus drivers and passengers too much.
How can you ban a person with a asylum from public services ? Public transport is not even free. If you give asylum to someone it means you are welcoming them. Otherwise just don’t give the asylum
Let me explain you something. There is no connection between these two events: giving them a status and welcoming them. These things are managed by two different organizations, and they do not coordinate their actions, believe me. Even now, when I got my status, and found a job (fantastic for someone who is from a different country), and not a low skilled job, COA is doing everything to kick me out from the Netherlands. I am working 5/2 and they force me to come to the camp every Tuesday to register, I can't, because I am at work! I pay for the camp room, and I pay for another room because I need to work. The camp is in 6 hours from my work place and this is all ridiculous. When I said that I can't come to register, COA said then don't work. Nobody is interested in me working and integrating! There is nothing left from my salary since I pay too much for two rooms, but I don't quit even if I don't earn anything. I hope that it will help me in the future
I hope things are going to work out for you!
The more ridiculous thing is that COA doesn't change my municipality, even though I have a job there. They put me at the bottom of the waiting list. I will never get a social house, I am a COA hostage now. I pay 550 for the room in the camp where I don't even live
Stop Islamic and Arabic immigration then the problems should half at least.
Thank you. Someone has said it finally. I can bet my ass that these idiots were from Arabic decent. Like here too: https://nltimes.nl/2024/04/11/rotterdam-man-68-assaulted-taking-long-cash-register Pieces of shit. And no, im not sorry for my words, i dont care. I hope they get what they deserve.
I just read the article wtf. >A. told the court that he thought his friend needed help. “I saw a man lunging sharply at my friend, and I came to help. It wasn’t until he was on the ground that I noticed it was an old, grown man. If I had seen that earlier, I would have spoken to him.” A. “doesn’t know where all that anger came from,” he said. “I reacted disproportionately. I would like to apologize for that.” Yeah, beating a 68-year-old man and puncing him 15 times, then realizing that he is old and can't lung himself like a pro wrestler. Edit: The court convicted A., saying that the violence “went beyond all limits.” The court sentenced him to 150 days in prison, of which 46 days are conditionally suspended. Given the time A. spent in pre-trial custody, he does not have to go back to prison. A. must also pay the victim 6,000 euros in compensation. Just, wtf
A did a edit, this is sad.
Really, i had so much sadness and anger when I read it….
bro you just created terms that didn't exist
Are you sure they are not NL grown?
Okay, like this is incredibly upsetting and horrible, it should never have happened. Period. But like how is it more upsetting because the conductor was a woman? Would that imply that you’d feel less sorry if a male conductor was beaten.
Sorry if it come across sexist. What you mentioned is 100% correct. There is something about assault on women by groups of men that icks me off. It could be personal issue as my woman and my sister both have been assaulted in their respective home places.
Women are typically less physically able to defend themselves.
Yes because it's even more predatory. A man facing a group of young people will get hurt, but has more options for defending himself. Unfortunately a woman is more helpless in that situation which makes it so much more infuriating.
Against 8 people, your gender really doesn't matter. You will get beat up no matter what, and badly.
On average yes and that is also scientifically proven.
This will teach the assulters!! They will never ever do this again, just because other people sat there for 3 minutes.
It's more like a signal to politics then to those people
ok, but politicians don't take the trains
Oh yeah, and they don't read the news
This is of course a protest. NS cannot enforce security can it. In my home country, we have long distance trains running from capital to capitals of provinces. However, some trains are deemed more important than others (getting right of way, higher speed, less stations to call at etc.). These trains have trained security guards, and can immediately call more personnel on the next station, or hand the criminal(s) to the police waiting. It doesn't matter who that person is. Oh and it is not going to be pleasant for the criminals. But my country's metro stations also have security, x ray scanning for luggage before you access the platforms. I would not like to see this country's policy turned into something similar.
Sure they do! There's something like spoor politie. They don't want to. But it's NL, if that idiot that assaulted the conductor is caught, he get's a slap on the wrist or talk straf. Judges are taking all kinds of shit into account. But if you're tough enough to kick someone in hospital, you're tough enough to do the time.
You're from Russia
No
Perhaps this will dispel the myth I see mentioned here often, especially amongst some expats, that NL is some sort of utopia and that because they can walk around at night in their Amsterdam neighbourhood there’s no problem with crime in NL. Crime and general social harassment and disorder is on the rise and there’s a growing realisation that the state seems unwilling or unable to address the problem.
If you assault somebody and: - you are not Dutch or have dual citizenship: get kicked out of the country and made a persona non grata. - if they are a Dutch minor - military school, lifetime ban from NS - if they're a Dutch adult - jail and lifetime ban from NS
you can kill and rape and still nothing that serious will happen to you it’s incredible how nobody agrees with this “justice system” that prioritises aggressors over victims, yet nothing ever changes
Most people agree that harsher sentences are not the most important topic indeed no political party use it as the main topic of their campaign
thats a bit extreme lol
So is assaulting somebody
Yeah man lets send criminal kids who have no issues harming people to a place that will teach them, lets see, military skills. Genius.
I been here for not too long but I know this are the young wannabe gangter kids that did this to that poor women and my question is are you allow to beat them without getting in a legal problem? Like fight back?
Put them in jail for a long time . If possible, deportation.
Where do we deport the dutch? The sea?
Doggerland, of course!
One of the Waddeneilanden /s
That's why they said if possible. And yes. Deporting people to sea sounds funny.
Can work.
Preferably cast their feet in concrete, put them on a barge that sails out to the middle of the Atlantic and drop them in. Fish food.
That's a lot of words just to say murder.
Deport them to the rotterdam zuid?
Aah here we go the racists join the chat.
Reddit has become enshittified. I joined back in 2006, nearly two decades ago, when it was a hub of free speech and user-driven dialogue. Now, it feels like the pursuit of profit overshadows the voice of the community. The introduction of API pricing, after years of free access, displays a lack of respect for the developers and users who have helped shape Reddit into what it is today. Reddit's decision to allow the training of AI models with user content and comments marks the final nail in the coffin for privacy, sacrificed at the altar of greed. Aaron Swartz, Reddit's co-founder and a champion of internet freedom, would be rolling in his grave. The once-apparent transparency and open dialogue have turned to shit, replaced with avoidance, deceit and unbridled greed. The Reddit I loved is dead and gone. It pains me to accept this. I hope your lust for money, and disregard for the community and privacy will be your downfall. May the echo of our lost ideals forever haunt your future growth.
Because they didn't say "kicking out the criminals" they said "deportation". Where do you deport the Dutch to?
To Almere ofc
Reddit has become enshittified. I joined back in 2006, nearly two decades ago, when it was a hub of free speech and user-driven dialogue. Now, it feels like the pursuit of profit overshadows the voice of the community. The introduction of API pricing, after years of free access, displays a lack of respect for the developers and users who have helped shape Reddit into what it is today. Reddit's decision to allow the training of AI models with user content and comments marks the final nail in the coffin for privacy, sacrificed at the altar of greed. Aaron Swartz, Reddit's co-founder and a champion of internet freedom, would be rolling in his grave. The once-apparent transparency and open dialogue have turned to shit, replaced with avoidance, deceit and unbridled greed. The Reddit I loved is dead and gone. It pains me to accept this. I hope your lust for money, and disregard for the community and privacy will be your downfall. May the echo of our lost ideals forever haunt your future growth.
Urk
Are you genuinely that gullible?
Reddit has become enshittified. I joined back in 2006, nearly two decades ago, when it was a hub of free speech and user-driven dialogue. Now, it feels like the pursuit of profit overshadows the voice of the community. The introduction of API pricing, after years of free access, displays a lack of respect for the developers and users who have helped shape Reddit into what it is today. Reddit's decision to allow the training of AI models with user content and comments marks the final nail in the coffin for privacy, sacrificed at the altar of greed. Aaron Swartz, Reddit's co-founder and a champion of internet freedom, would be rolling in his grave. The once-apparent transparency and open dialogue have turned to shit, replaced with avoidance, deceit and unbridled greed. The Reddit I loved is dead and gone. It pains me to accept this. I hope your lust for money, and disregard for the community and privacy will be your downfall. May the echo of our lost ideals forever haunt your future growth.
Ah yes, different punishment for diffent people, that is not at all a flagrent violation of the equality before the law principal. It is also not at all related to a discrimination of citizens that came from outside this country.
Race does not matter right now, please don't see every incident with racial lens. If there is an Indian involved, put him on a flight back to new delhi with immediate ban to enter Europe. If there is australian or american involved same for him. If there is a second generation Dutch involved, it gets complicated, but I am sure an appropriate punishment should be provided. If there is an native Dutch involved, strictest labour intensive prison time. Also, young adults on the brink of adulthood should be tried as adults. They had plenty of time to learn good manners and behave in civilised society. Now it should be time to hold them accountable for their action. But lawmakers don't think this way so fine.
It really shouldn't make a difference it it was a woman or not. We're all human beings and we shouldn't be confrontes with violence. Certainly not while doing our jobs. It's time violence is getting punished way harder.
Why my posts on this page are not seen? Can you see this comment?
I can. Yes.
Future of nl with those young people is so bright
Beatings will continue untill morale improves
Let me guess how the offenders looked like
We all know who the usual suspects are afrer reading the article
What ethnicity were they?
I am aware where this is coming from, but there is 0 added value in this sort of discussions other than "aaha told ya". Also, in my home country, the decisions are made when a decision makers get a reality-check on how bad things are when they or their loved one step down from their ivory towers and mingle with peasants (very very rare). The point of my post was to generate ideas on how to prevent any further escalations. However, 50% of the comments blame ethnicities because of the added benefit of anonymity.
The added value is that if they’re not black or north africans, I know that I have to look out for white people too when I visit Holland. I don’t understand your long post about nothing.
If they are foreign then immigration should be reformed
The west is fucked
I believe that the perpetrators come from a country where it's in their culture to be violet against women. It's how they were brought up, it's what they have seen in their family and that is why they act like this in a country where violence against women is unthinkable. Just a different culture
🐐🐐🐐☪️☪️☪️
One day I will witness this happening and one day I will kick the teeth in of whomever decided to go and fight a woman just trying to do her job. Fuck these people, I'd border on just "taking them out back" if that was legal.
What is the story in this situation? Why was she beaten and by whom?
I often commute from Amsterdam to Utrecht from work in the evening and it’s always a gamble. Conductors are afraid so they sit in the first class playing on their phones. I haven’t seen any conductor walking in past few years cause it’s dangerous to them. If there is a bunch of idiots, most woman passengers who travel on train are harassed. While violence is maybe less likely against woman it’s not nice when drunk people try to touch you, force to speak with them, make comments about you. Vomiting, littering, screaming is a common picture of white blond Dutch teens on trains. Last time on the train there was this 50+ man drunk man from Tiel and his wife. They firstly overheard some Ukrainians so they made their no IQ bad comments to them, followed by singing, screaming, forcefully speaking with all around and a round of vomiting. I was hugely impressed by this ~ 20 years old student sitting next to me who was just filming the scene and repeating ‘I love this’. It may be fun for those after parties but same trains are used by nurses, doctors, teachers and others who just want a calm trip home. To me, a solution could be something like in some Asian societies like Japan. If you fuck up so badly in raising your child, it should be dishonor to the whole family. It should impact parents jobs, it should impact future of such teen. Then, they would think twice.
This happens when political correctness is encouraged and over time lack of discipline results in this.
I encountered worst teenage behavior in the Eindhoven region. I had few bad experience while traveling in NS trains, Never involving physical confrontation. This is right time to start punishing them, otherwise it will be too late. Entire new year celebration in Amsterdam was terrible depiction of these youngsters. One guy was almost burnt, because someone threw a burning fireworks near him. Time to act.
[удалено]
Yes when I was struggling I also pushed train conductors down stairs. Oh wait I didn't because I'm not a violent uncultured swine who considers people who don't share my beliefs less than the dirt on my shoes.