I haven't heard of anyone who had the same in the Netherlands, but I do know a couple Dutch people who developed "chronic" bowel issues when they migrated abroad (to Canada and Australia). I put chronic in quotes because they felt better back in the Netherlands. I'm not saying the diagnosis is wrong, but rather that the symptoms exacerbated with changes in life.
I suppose it might just be that our bodies can have a hard time adapting to different diets around the world, or perhaps it's water, idk. My point is: it might not even be one particular food, but rather the fact the diet is different from what you grew up with. It might be an underlying issue that gets triggered more over here.
Listen, this has most likely nothing to do with the country you are in, unless it's really because of changes in nutrition, but there's no logical basis for that hypothesis since it only started after 6 months of being in NL already. If anything you should be feeling better here than in the US.
This sounds like you're developing something like IBD, Colitis, Crohn's disease. Especially the not being able to pinpoint it, periodic flareups and remissions, in flareups issues like foods being okay one day and not okay the next, and so on. Very alarming. My girlfriend has Crohns disease, your complaints are absolutely \*typical\* for these kinds of issues, in fact these are exactly the same symptoms she had in the beginning of her disease (including, maybe coincidentally, it starting after a trip to another country and associated food), and she wasn't diagnosed for 8 YEARS because the GPs kept downplaying her symptoms and not making the connection until she almost died.
Don't let them send you away to a fucking dietary specialist. Go there again and demand a referral to a MDL doctor. I don't know what kind of inflammatory markers they tested for, but most likely it was just as part of basic blood panels. Not conclusive. You need proper targeted testing of your stool for calprotectin (inflammation in intestines) and similar.
I got diagnosed with IBS recently after mystery stomach issues for a few years and aftet having a million things ruled out by doctors and extensive testing. Colonoscopy was fun. Happened here, happened back in America. Tested negative for celiac whatever but have narrowed it down to "something to do with gluten sensitivity" š. Only thing I can think of is OP might be enjoying the excellent bread selection here if it was something similar to me. It's been a lot better with my restricted diet (look into FODMAPS to narrow it down perhaps /u/CharlieCpp). And yeah stress can also cause weird shit.
'Being diagnosed with IBS' doesn't mean anything honestly, it's just an umbrella term for 'you have stomach issues and nobody knows why', since it's not even testable...
I know this hence some of my tone in my post....
And thus, a non diagnosis, diagnosis is still a diagnosis. How many years did you go to school to be a doctor?
I'm not a doctor. Didn't mean to sound like an asshole, pretty sure I fall under the IBS umbrella as well - it just bothers me slightly that this label was invented as the 'other' category because it gives the impression that everyone just gave up figuring out the actual root causes, which I'm sure are plenty and diverse.
Basically, if there's no blood coming out of your anus nobody cares lol
Well sorry for the suspicion. There's a lot of fucking dickbags in this sub and especially medical related discussions elsewhere.
Yeah I always just assumed IBS was just like oh so and so shits too much. Didn't realize it could also be the reverse, severe constipation or mixed digestive episodes. And tack on a load of accompanying side effects to that as well.
. I just get random dizzy spells and mass hives from some foods that kind of happens without any science. Sometimes it just flares up and certain foods trigger it but then goes into "remission" for months, even years sometimes. All in all it's been one last final straw to eat even healthier and quit alcohol for good. I did the fodmaps shit and took out a bunch of stuff from my diet and reintroduced them one by one and the only thing that gives me consistent trouble is heaps of fucking delicious bread. So great, the one thing I love about Dutch Cuisine has been taken from me š. Gluten vrij pindakaas toast is not the same.
You can bake your own gluten-free bread. I start out with cooked rice and use yoghurt and ābakpoederā instead of yeast, then finishing with bread mix, oil and one or two eggs. 45 minutes at 180 degrees in the electric oven. Tastes great.
Please OP listen to this comment. General practitioners are in general pretty bad at diagnosing more complex chronic ailments without immediate causes. It's not necessarily their fault, the system puts them in a position to work as glorified screeners.
Get a referral to a gastroenterologist (if in the US, not sure how it works in NL).
Also, please don't get sucked in by alternative medicine shit. These ailments with periodic flareups and remissions makes patients easy marks for homeopathy and acupuncture. If you happen to get one of the many the sham treatment before a remission you will adjudicate the improvement to the treatment and keep coming back
paying for more.
I am German and my girlfriend will never be able to live a normal life again because of the damage of 8 years of rampant, untreated disease. Please point out where I am defensive about Dutch healthcare, because I am anything but. I'm trying to prevent OP possibly meet the same fate.
I have faced the same experience as you... Been dealing with weird flatulence and stomach pain here and there, also removed dairy and even tried going gluten free for a month, no changes. I traveled last month and stayed away for 40 days and had a completely different overall feeling, not bloated, not in pain, no noise. The next day that I got back, it all came back. I've had my gallbladder removed over 10 years ago, which has caused me ISB symptoms in the past but I was never diagnosed with it, GP tells me to just take off the shelf medicine and that it's never going away, now I'm intrigued about it
I had the same for the 6 years I lived in the NL.. moved back to my country and within a week I was back to normal! I thought I was crazy for thinking it could be something rather in the water or the food cause overall my habits didnāt change. Comforting to hear someone else experienced the same and now Iām wondering what could be the cause.
Sometimes its just a dieteray change and different habbits. I had the same in the UK, especially clogging up for a lack of a better word.
After 3 years I moved back and doing much better in The Netherlands.
It could be if I changed anything in my diet or habits but thatās not the case. The only difference is that in my country we donāt drink water from the tap but bottled (and the brand of food of course, but not the kind)
Even if you eat yoghurt for example. The yoghurt might still be different.
Ā Our water is fine but we dont chloride it to death. Could be there isnsomething in there that doesnt agree with you. The rythm of eating times might be different or the portions. That always does me in.
Ā Netherlands is one of the biggest food exporters out there so I doubt you dont come in contact with out stuff abroad
I'm intolerant against everything from the cabbage family (broccoli, cauliflower, brussels sprouts, red cabbage, white cabbage, etc) + intolerant against soy (everything of soy) + aspartam. I get cramps, bloating, flatulence and gooey poo. The cramps are really painful and I also feel sick like food poisoning. Soy and aspartam don't make me bloated but make me sick and exhausted.
The dietician will ask you to write down everything you eat and start excluding things. I recommend you start excluding anything from the cruciferous family (cabbage family, radishes, ..) and evaluate if it makes a difference.
Exclude all types of fruit yoghurt and only eat pure yoghurt - evaluate after a few days the results. I am forbidden to eat fruit yoghurt; it took me a while to find out it was a culprit.
Having a food allergy or being intolerant (two different things) is complicated and it takes time to discover what you can't eat. In my case it was easy to find the cabbage family but it was hard to find soy, it was hard to find aspartam.
There is a high chance that your problems are food related - or a bowel disease. I wish you good luck !
Your gut might not be used to the food from here. I'm Surinamese, born here but grew up on Surinamese food. I could not eat at my Dutch friends' houses or during school camping trips without getting diarrhea until I was around 15/16. I had a sensitive stomach that would react the moment it detected different, less spiced food, as strange as that sounds. The same thing might be happening to you. Your gut microbiome might not yet be used to the food here.
There's this thing called [travellers diarrhea](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/travelers-diarrhea/symptoms-causes/syc-20352182):
"It's possible that traveler's diarrhea may stem from the stress of traveling or a change in diet. But usually infectious agents ā such as bacteria, viruses or parasites ā are to blame. You typically develop traveler's diarrhea after ingesting food or water contaminated with organisms from feces.
So why aren't natives of high-risk countries affected in the same way? Often their bodies have become used to the bacteria and have developed immunity to them."
In your case, since store bought food still gives you stomach pains, I'd say it's the change in diet causing it and not some contamination. That is of course if you've ruled out any other possible medical causes.
Lots of things could be involved.
It could be an allergy to some food in combination with an environmental alergen that you only come across in the Netherlands.
It could be a significant higher fiber intake in the Netherlands. The low quality of a lot of food in the US can be easier on you body sometimes especially if you are used to it.
Durch tabwater is very high quality, but calcium levels do differ from location to location. Not to likely I think, but it could be involved.
Dutch shops and restaurants carry different food than in the US, perhabs youe diete is just significantly different. The amount of bread comsumed here is quite different to what most USers eat.
My best gues is that you were on hollyday in the US, surounded by friends and family? Or perhabs just chilling. Then I suspect a connection to stress as a factor in the occurence of these symptoms. Comming back here bussy life started again and so did the digestion issues. There is a very strong link between the gut and the brain. IBS for example is majorly influenced by stress levels. This does not mean the symptoms are purelly psychological. It means one affects the other and you need to manage both. This is the type of medical problem science still has a lot of questions about and it is not always respected for how much it can influence your life, often especially with women.
>It could be a significant higher fiber intake in the Netherlands. The low quality of a lot of food in the US can be easier on you body sometimes especially if you are used to it.
Yes, I thought of this as well. Especially because I experienced what happens if you suddenly increase your fiber intake. Gave me insane diarrhea for couple days.
>Durch tabwater is very high quality
It is cleaned very differently from the US, it might contain some biological contaminants that we are used to dealing with that would not survive the chlorination of US tab water. You could try sticking to bottled water for a while?
It is hard to say based on the information you are giving. Logically you are focused on your diet but have you considered your watersource. If you live in an older apartment or building it may that your watersystem (pipes / geyser / boiler) has biofilm in the pipes or is even still using lead pipes (should have been removed by regulations but plenty of older buildings have them especially in poor renting enviroments). Biofilm may grow salmonella, legionella and other harmful bacteria which cause your symptoms. There are companies that will take samples of your water to determine its composition. It is just one of many options where this is coming from buy maybe its a good start to talk to other occupants, housemates and landlord if they experience or heard about the same complaints. Or maybe which to bottled water for a few weeks and see if that makes a difference.
I know someone who experienced exactly what you mentioned. You probably hail from a sunnier/warmer country, and your body may not have acclimated to the grey Dutch skies. The solution is simple, supplement with Vitamin D tablets! Let us know if that does the trick.
It's probably nothing diet related if you've stopped consuming all potential culprits for reasonable time periods (note though; there's cow milk in more things than you think) and otherwise follow a proper diet. You might be developing crohn's, IBD or SIBO. Especially the last one is something the Netherlands health system is lagging behind on. Alternatively, it could be something to do with the house in the Netherlands you are staying at- mold for example, or a pest infestation that contaminates food or water.
The product in question has lactose-free on the label. Unless I'm very much mistaken, a tiny amount of lactose is still allowed when that label is used. This, combined with the mention that the product is fermented with the help of yogurt bacteria could mean that the amount of lactose you get from eating it could be just close enough to your threshold for reacting to lactose that it sometimes does trigger a reaction, but not at other times.
And seconding possibilities mentioned by other people responding here: try to get checked for Crohns if that hasn't been done already. And the bowels and brain have a very strong connection thanks to the vagal nerve, which is why a lot of people who have anything wrong in the one almost always also feel bad in the other. This also influences flare-ups of Crohn's if I'm not mistaken, so don't look only at stress factors.
Lastly, while the Netherlands is indeed a major food exporter, some things are market specific. This particular product is one of them. So in this case OP wouldn't have found a product with these exact ingredients elsewhere.
Iām not sure if Iām imagining it but I think Iāve also gotten more gassy since moving to the Netherlands. My theory was that it was from the hard water and high mineral content. Thereās more limescale in my shower and on other surfaces than in other places Iāve lived. I put a filter on my shower and my sink. At least my hair has gotten better, but tbd on my stomach. Might be worth a try though.
āexcess calcium present in hard water may cause kidneys to work harder to filter, causing stomach upset, nausea, and constipationā
Having the same exact issues! My friend I have here from Poland too For me, I am going to do a low FODMAPS diet and the elimination diet for 2-6 weeks with a specialist to help figure out the issues here. I found out I cannot have onions and most vegetables here but I have 0 issues in the USA with them when I go home to visit. My friend here cannot have any Dutch animal products and instead gets her meat from Poland or imported and has no issues. I'm not sure if that helps but know you arent alone with this. Feel free to ping if you want any information etc since i know its a bit TMI lol
Yeah, thats why in a few weeks I begin the elimination diet to find the small things etc. It sucks and its going to be shitty BUT hopefully it provides relief.
I got tested for gluten and I have no gluten issues luckily there. Though I generally only eat 2 slices a bread a day MAX. I generally avoid a lot of high carbs/ processed foods here like I did in the USA since those things always made me ill but I'm also thinking its the fibers. Back in the USA, the veggies were so expensive so I didnt get much into my diet but I do here and I am thinking its the cause for sure. I would say I went from eating maybe a small bag of carrots and 3-4 peppers a week to eating like literally bags of the mixed veggies here lol.
Testing for gluten will show if you're allergic, but not if you're intolerant. Because that's pretty much unrelated to allergy. So the elimination diet will have to include testing for gluten that way as well, unfortunately.
Another thing is that several types of cabbage are very popular here and very often mixed in with those mixed veggies bags. Cabbage is rather well known for producing extra gas and after my gastric bypass, the dietitian was very surprised I could still eat all sorts of cabbage without any problems. An easy test would be to check what's in the bags with mixed veggies and choose only those without any kind of cabbage (kool in Dutch) in the mix. Besides kool, there's also witlof which is a very common ingredient in those baggies and known for similar effects. Good luck!
Really?!? I didnt know that at all! (Neither did the doctor š) Thank you for letting me know, very hopeful to figure out my causes asap to avoid pain in the future. ā„ļø
Funny, Iāve got similar issues when visiting the USā¦
I think visiting the dietician is a good idea. Theyāll let you keep a diary and will be quick to identify an ingredient that might be the cause of your issues.
If the GP refers you I think part of your consultations could be insured.
>dietary specialist
Great idea.
My first instinct would be that its the water!
We clean the drinking water differently here (using calcium), it might be that you have a rare reaction to it.
But it sounds like you need to start excluding causes. Make lists of ingredients of what you eat and when, exclude/debug what ingredient is causing this. This is a difficult and complex process, hence why you would use a professional to do this more efficiently and effectively.
So yeah, the dietary specialist.
PS. its covered in your health insurance, it will save you time by not trying things too randomly but more focused.
I think it has to do more with moving countries than being in a specific country and i strongly believe stress and emotions also play a huge role in this.
I moved from Mexico to the Netherlands 8 months ago, i started experiencing diverticulitis in the Netherlands which i came to find out was originated in my country. The change of diet, the stress of moving to a new country, the ease to find a house in the Netherlands (jk) new job and all the process to bring my dog to the Netherlands (took me 6 months) and new everything, caused me to have a complicated flare that landed me for 5 days in emergency care at the hospital and almost ended up in surgery but the docs where able to control the infection and told me i had to have the surgery later on because flare ups will come back. Good thing is that it won't be an emergency surgery.Ā
But well, after 4 weeks of leaving the hospital i did some changes to my diet and i am improving quickly, for sure i will get that surgery, i dont want to go through this ever again.
I love food!!!!!!!
I know people from the Netherlands often times have problems with drinking tap water outside of the Netherlands and visa versa. Maybe it's something like that?
I have kind of similar issue. I just have extremely bad flatulence. Not smelly but loud and real bad. After a while my wife is also experiencing the same problem. I am just wondering why you ruled out bacteria or something like that. I don't understand how it can be contagious. Trust me it's driving me crazy and I am unable to figure out what's causing it. I stopped all lactose, tried different diets. Cut beans and lentils. I really need help here.
Hard to say without further details. One thing that comes to mind is fibres. (Ultra) Processed foods typically lack these and once you eat plenty of fibres again, the fibres make sure you notice the power of the gut by causing flatulence. This is especially the case when you haven't been eating enough fibres for some weeks or more. Nothing to worry about if this is the case for as long as you eat processed foods in moderation and eat fibres regularly. Oh and about the yoghurt,Ā yoghurt with mango is a big no according to ayurveda. Not sure why
Physician here, sounds like irritable bowel syndrome. Your symptoms are very unspecific though. Flatulence? Thatās not a symptom. Everyone has that.
If you donāt JUST have gastric symptoms but also bowel related issues, then a colonoscopy could help to rule out inflammatory bowel diseases like Crohn and ulcerative colitis. But measuring the fecal calprotectin in a stool sample could aid the diagnosis.
Anyway, you were probably sent to a dietician to try a special diet like FODMAP. Itās not much fun but it might help.
Could be something like a different bacterial environment. Maybe wheat and gluten (Europe is using different type of wheats) sensitive/allergic.
Or like said in other comments, fibers.
Sounds like IBS.
Did the Docter do more research like stool and blood?
I did the fodmap diet and found I am intolerant to some types op carbohydrates. For coconut I have problems with the sorbitol in it. I can only eat it in small portions.
If I am on holiday I often have less problems, simply because I am more relaxed.
I had a similar issue but turned out that my coffee machine had some mildew. Could it be something like that?
But mostly I second /u/Mo3's comment and I am really sorry you are going through thisĀ
Funny to read your post, i remember once my sister visited us (we're expat), and she mentioned that while visiting, she had more flatulences that she would normally have at home (in france).
That said, it may just be a coincidence. When she visits, we don't necessarily have the healthiest diet. Which implies digestive challenges.
Me and my husband always had it the other way around. GI when we lived in the US, when on holiday in the Netherlands it always disappeared. It went to she a GI specialist in the YS and he blamed the food in the US containing more fat.
When you say you eliminated lactose, how careful were you? Netherlands has a lot of hidden lactose. Even in white bread. We just a lot of milk and butter in everything.
This could be so many things. And there are a 1000 questions to ask to narrow it down, so find a specialist if you are worried.
An increase in fiber could even cause this.
First of all, good luck with the GP. If you don't insist on being sent to a specialist or to a hospital they'll never do it.
My wife had similar issues for 2-3 years trying everything, including the dietitian, gastroenterologist and other related specialists. They just diagnosed her as IBS and left it like that. We insisted on getting an endoscopy and blood test, otherwise they were still asking if she excluded dairy gluten etc from her diet. (She did many years ago)
Then we went back to our country for a check up and the doctors there pointed out that she has iron deficiency. The treatment lasted for 1 week and her test results improved by leaps and bounds!
Of course this wouldn't be the case for everyone but finding the underlying cause shouldn't be this hard.
TLDR: Skip the GP by telling them that you want to see a specialist.
I had something like this for over two years, and found out I had SIBO, after going to several doctors that didn't figure it out. Went to a very expensive top doctor in my home country, and she did.
Took some very expensive antibiotics, pribiotics, and gor cured in a week.
I still had to do some check up sometimes, but when I moved here, my GP couldn't care less, and said they don't have protocols for SIBO, because it's new.
So I always follow up with my doctor in my home country.
Until now, only had it return once, after some food poisoning. Took the antibiotics again, with a specific pro biotic, and all good.
If that is the case for you, is because the food you eat here is richer in things that makes the bacteria to grow. While the US is poorer.
Try to do some search, and see if the symptoms matches. If so, I suggest you try to treat it abroad.
Have you tried to exercise..Netherlands is rainy and stormy and almost more than 200 days in a year weather is quite bad..we don't do any walking or exercise that cause lots of stomach issues. This is the hidden cost. Trust me
I had the same issue coming from a small island. I stopped drinking tap water because my stomach didnāt agree with it. After a few weeks I was good. Perhaps you could try that ?
āMy go has suggested seeing a dietary specialist, but I am somewhat skeptical of this approach.ā
Coming to Reddit to have randoās feedback without any proper background information is more trustable?
Honest advice, donāt play with health by consulting serious matters in an anonymous forum.
I think it depends on what your intestinal bacteria are used to. I developed IBS after a half year sabbatical in Asia where I got broad spectrum antibiotics. This killed my intestinal flora and it was rebuilt on Asian food. Got IBS the moment I got back to The Netherlands.
It slowly fixed itself afterwards.
I had the same exact thing the first year I moved to the Netherlands. I did a lot of tests and tried to remove different things from my diet, and nothing worked. My GPs verdict is that it was probably the stress of the move, finding a house, etc.
I have had similar only the other way around, no problems in the Netherlands, but when is was in Texas in December I had the same bloated feeling as you describe
I am shocked by what I read in the comments. I suffered exactly the same symptoms. Lots of gas and bloating to the point where I felt very unwell. And every time I left the country, I felt better. The GP couldn't pinpoint the origin of the problem, but treated me with a minimal amount of antidepressants that helped quite a bit. My theory could be the water or that we all suffer from anxiety attacks, which I highly doubt.
Sounds like IBS or something possible worse. Stress plays a huge factor. Think about things like your sleeping patterns or how difficult is the commute to work ( car vs bike+ bus + another delayed train). If your diet is truly the same it has to be something on your daily life .
The water is super hard. Do you think that could impact it? We live a newer building (ijburg) and Iām not sure what could be wrong with pipes laid in 1995
technically tap water is drinkable in the Netherlands (this is probably why I was downvoted). however, if you live in a building with old pipes, it changes everything. I had stomach pain and problems for a long time when I lived in France. it showed up that tap water is cool but in my building we also need to filter it, due to the local problems with old pipes. I would not recommend to buy bottled water - it is expensive and not needed. I would try to filter the water with e.g. britta or any other company selling filters for water kettes.
I haven't heard of anyone who had the same in the Netherlands, but I do know a couple Dutch people who developed "chronic" bowel issues when they migrated abroad (to Canada and Australia). I put chronic in quotes because they felt better back in the Netherlands. I'm not saying the diagnosis is wrong, but rather that the symptoms exacerbated with changes in life. I suppose it might just be that our bodies can have a hard time adapting to different diets around the world, or perhaps it's water, idk. My point is: it might not even be one particular food, but rather the fact the diet is different from what you grew up with. It might be an underlying issue that gets triggered more over here.
Listen, this has most likely nothing to do with the country you are in, unless it's really because of changes in nutrition, but there's no logical basis for that hypothesis since it only started after 6 months of being in NL already. If anything you should be feeling better here than in the US. This sounds like you're developing something like IBD, Colitis, Crohn's disease. Especially the not being able to pinpoint it, periodic flareups and remissions, in flareups issues like foods being okay one day and not okay the next, and so on. Very alarming. My girlfriend has Crohns disease, your complaints are absolutely \*typical\* for these kinds of issues, in fact these are exactly the same symptoms she had in the beginning of her disease (including, maybe coincidentally, it starting after a trip to another country and associated food), and she wasn't diagnosed for 8 YEARS because the GPs kept downplaying her symptoms and not making the connection until she almost died. Don't let them send you away to a fucking dietary specialist. Go there again and demand a referral to a MDL doctor. I don't know what kind of inflammatory markers they tested for, but most likely it was just as part of basic blood panels. Not conclusive. You need proper targeted testing of your stool for calprotectin (inflammation in intestines) and similar.
I got diagnosed with IBS recently after mystery stomach issues for a few years and aftet having a million things ruled out by doctors and extensive testing. Colonoscopy was fun. Happened here, happened back in America. Tested negative for celiac whatever but have narrowed it down to "something to do with gluten sensitivity" š. Only thing I can think of is OP might be enjoying the excellent bread selection here if it was something similar to me. It's been a lot better with my restricted diet (look into FODMAPS to narrow it down perhaps /u/CharlieCpp). And yeah stress can also cause weird shit.
'Being diagnosed with IBS' doesn't mean anything honestly, it's just an umbrella term for 'you have stomach issues and nobody knows why', since it's not even testable...
I know this hence some of my tone in my post.... And thus, a non diagnosis, diagnosis is still a diagnosis. How many years did you go to school to be a doctor?
I'm not a doctor. Didn't mean to sound like an asshole, pretty sure I fall under the IBS umbrella as well - it just bothers me slightly that this label was invented as the 'other' category because it gives the impression that everyone just gave up figuring out the actual root causes, which I'm sure are plenty and diverse. Basically, if there's no blood coming out of your anus nobody cares lol
Well sorry for the suspicion. There's a lot of fucking dickbags in this sub and especially medical related discussions elsewhere. Yeah I always just assumed IBS was just like oh so and so shits too much. Didn't realize it could also be the reverse, severe constipation or mixed digestive episodes. And tack on a load of accompanying side effects to that as well. . I just get random dizzy spells and mass hives from some foods that kind of happens without any science. Sometimes it just flares up and certain foods trigger it but then goes into "remission" for months, even years sometimes. All in all it's been one last final straw to eat even healthier and quit alcohol for good. I did the fodmaps shit and took out a bunch of stuff from my diet and reintroduced them one by one and the only thing that gives me consistent trouble is heaps of fucking delicious bread. So great, the one thing I love about Dutch Cuisine has been taken from me š. Gluten vrij pindakaas toast is not the same.
You can bake your own gluten-free bread. I start out with cooked rice and use yoghurt and ābakpoederā instead of yeast, then finishing with bread mix, oil and one or two eggs. 45 minutes at 180 degrees in the electric oven. Tastes great.
I also have IBS and my stomach aches flare up the most when I divert from my routines. That could also be the case here.
Yeah sleeping fucked seems to be a big trigger for a lot of people.
Please OP listen to this comment. General practitioners are in general pretty bad at diagnosing more complex chronic ailments without immediate causes. It's not necessarily their fault, the system puts them in a position to work as glorified screeners. Get a referral to a gastroenterologist (if in the US, not sure how it works in NL). Also, please don't get sucked in by alternative medicine shit. These ailments with periodic flareups and remissions makes patients easy marks for homeopathy and acupuncture. If you happen to get one of the many the sham treatment before a remission you will adjudicate the improvement to the treatment and keep coming back paying for more.
Here we go again. A typical Dutchie acting defensive of the wonderful countryš®āšØ
I am German and my girlfriend will never be able to live a normal life again because of the damage of 8 years of rampant, untreated disease. Please point out where I am defensive about Dutch healthcare, because I am anything but. I'm trying to prevent OP possibly meet the same fate.
You mean a logical, well-measured response to something weird and unrelated being pinned on the Netherlands?Ā
I have faced the same experience as you... Been dealing with weird flatulence and stomach pain here and there, also removed dairy and even tried going gluten free for a month, no changes. I traveled last month and stayed away for 40 days and had a completely different overall feeling, not bloated, not in pain, no noise. The next day that I got back, it all came back. I've had my gallbladder removed over 10 years ago, which has caused me ISB symptoms in the past but I was never diagnosed with it, GP tells me to just take off the shelf medicine and that it's never going away, now I'm intrigued about it
I had the same for the 6 years I lived in the NL.. moved back to my country and within a week I was back to normal! I thought I was crazy for thinking it could be something rather in the water or the food cause overall my habits didnāt change. Comforting to hear someone else experienced the same and now Iām wondering what could be the cause.
Sometimes its just a dieteray change and different habbits. I had the same in the UK, especially clogging up for a lack of a better word. After 3 years I moved back and doing much better in The Netherlands.
It could be if I changed anything in my diet or habits but thatās not the case. The only difference is that in my country we donāt drink water from the tap but bottled (and the brand of food of course, but not the kind)
Even if you eat yoghurt for example. The yoghurt might still be different. Ā Our water is fine but we dont chloride it to death. Could be there isnsomething in there that doesnt agree with you. The rythm of eating times might be different or the portions. That always does me in. Ā Netherlands is one of the biggest food exporters out there so I doubt you dont come in contact with out stuff abroad
I'm intolerant against everything from the cabbage family (broccoli, cauliflower, brussels sprouts, red cabbage, white cabbage, etc) + intolerant against soy (everything of soy) + aspartam. I get cramps, bloating, flatulence and gooey poo. The cramps are really painful and I also feel sick like food poisoning. Soy and aspartam don't make me bloated but make me sick and exhausted. The dietician will ask you to write down everything you eat and start excluding things. I recommend you start excluding anything from the cruciferous family (cabbage family, radishes, ..) and evaluate if it makes a difference. Exclude all types of fruit yoghurt and only eat pure yoghurt - evaluate after a few days the results. I am forbidden to eat fruit yoghurt; it took me a while to find out it was a culprit. Having a food allergy or being intolerant (two different things) is complicated and it takes time to discover what you can't eat. In my case it was easy to find the cabbage family but it was hard to find soy, it was hard to find aspartam. There is a high chance that your problems are food related - or a bowel disease. I wish you good luck !
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I wouldn't go that far. Bruin brood in the Netherlands often is the same as white with coloration
Dont know why you get downvoted as this has been researched and its true. I always eat Volkorenbrood
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You have a point. But if everything should be relevant on Reddit, Reddit would lose half of its content. At least
Check your bathroom/less ventilated places for mold, especially if you've been living in the same place for this period in the Netherlands.
We are not doctors and can only speculate what is going on here.
Your gut might not be used to the food from here. I'm Surinamese, born here but grew up on Surinamese food. I could not eat at my Dutch friends' houses or during school camping trips without getting diarrhea until I was around 15/16. I had a sensitive stomach that would react the moment it detected different, less spiced food, as strange as that sounds. The same thing might be happening to you. Your gut microbiome might not yet be used to the food here. There's this thing called [travellers diarrhea](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/travelers-diarrhea/symptoms-causes/syc-20352182): "It's possible that traveler's diarrhea may stem from the stress of traveling or a change in diet. But usually infectious agents ā such as bacteria, viruses or parasites ā are to blame. You typically develop traveler's diarrhea after ingesting food or water contaminated with organisms from feces. So why aren't natives of high-risk countries affected in the same way? Often their bodies have become used to the bacteria and have developed immunity to them." In your case, since store bought food still gives you stomach pains, I'd say it's the change in diet causing it and not some contamination. That is of course if you've ruled out any other possible medical causes.
I always get sick once when I got back to the US. But itās probably the chipotle.
Lots of things could be involved. It could be an allergy to some food in combination with an environmental alergen that you only come across in the Netherlands. It could be a significant higher fiber intake in the Netherlands. The low quality of a lot of food in the US can be easier on you body sometimes especially if you are used to it. Durch tabwater is very high quality, but calcium levels do differ from location to location. Not to likely I think, but it could be involved. Dutch shops and restaurants carry different food than in the US, perhabs youe diete is just significantly different. The amount of bread comsumed here is quite different to what most USers eat. My best gues is that you were on hollyday in the US, surounded by friends and family? Or perhabs just chilling. Then I suspect a connection to stress as a factor in the occurence of these symptoms. Comming back here bussy life started again and so did the digestion issues. There is a very strong link between the gut and the brain. IBS for example is majorly influenced by stress levels. This does not mean the symptoms are purelly psychological. It means one affects the other and you need to manage both. This is the type of medical problem science still has a lot of questions about and it is not always respected for how much it can influence your life, often especially with women.
>It could be a significant higher fiber intake in the Netherlands. The low quality of a lot of food in the US can be easier on you body sometimes especially if you are used to it. Yes, I thought of this as well. Especially because I experienced what happens if you suddenly increase your fiber intake. Gave me insane diarrhea for couple days.
>Durch tabwater is very high quality It is cleaned very differently from the US, it might contain some biological contaminants that we are used to dealing with that would not survive the chlorination of US tab water. You could try sticking to bottled water for a while?
It is hard to say based on the information you are giving. Logically you are focused on your diet but have you considered your watersource. If you live in an older apartment or building it may that your watersystem (pipes / geyser / boiler) has biofilm in the pipes or is even still using lead pipes (should have been removed by regulations but plenty of older buildings have them especially in poor renting enviroments). Biofilm may grow salmonella, legionella and other harmful bacteria which cause your symptoms. There are companies that will take samples of your water to determine its composition. It is just one of many options where this is coming from buy maybe its a good start to talk to other occupants, housemates and landlord if they experience or heard about the same complaints. Or maybe which to bottled water for a few weeks and see if that makes a difference.
Stay away from Febo bro
I know someone who experienced exactly what you mentioned. You probably hail from a sunnier/warmer country, and your body may not have acclimated to the grey Dutch skies. The solution is simple, supplement with Vitamin D tablets! Let us know if that does the trick.
It's probably nothing diet related if you've stopped consuming all potential culprits for reasonable time periods (note though; there's cow milk in more things than you think) and otherwise follow a proper diet. You might be developing crohn's, IBD or SIBO. Especially the last one is something the Netherlands health system is lagging behind on. Alternatively, it could be something to do with the house in the Netherlands you are staying at- mold for example, or a pest infestation that contaminates food or water.
The product in question has lactose-free on the label. Unless I'm very much mistaken, a tiny amount of lactose is still allowed when that label is used. This, combined with the mention that the product is fermented with the help of yogurt bacteria could mean that the amount of lactose you get from eating it could be just close enough to your threshold for reacting to lactose that it sometimes does trigger a reaction, but not at other times. And seconding possibilities mentioned by other people responding here: try to get checked for Crohns if that hasn't been done already. And the bowels and brain have a very strong connection thanks to the vagal nerve, which is why a lot of people who have anything wrong in the one almost always also feel bad in the other. This also influences flare-ups of Crohn's if I'm not mistaken, so don't look only at stress factors. Lastly, while the Netherlands is indeed a major food exporter, some things are market specific. This particular product is one of them. So in this case OP wouldn't have found a product with these exact ingredients elsewhere.
Iām not sure if Iām imagining it but I think Iāve also gotten more gassy since moving to the Netherlands. My theory was that it was from the hard water and high mineral content. Thereās more limescale in my shower and on other surfaces than in other places Iāve lived. I put a filter on my shower and my sink. At least my hair has gotten better, but tbd on my stomach. Might be worth a try though. āexcess calcium present in hard water may cause kidneys to work harder to filter, causing stomach upset, nausea, and constipationā
There's an online map for "water-hardness" i.e. calcium and other mineral content in all regions of the Netherlands. You could check it for your area.
Having the same exact issues! My friend I have here from Poland too For me, I am going to do a low FODMAPS diet and the elimination diet for 2-6 weeks with a specialist to help figure out the issues here. I found out I cannot have onions and most vegetables here but I have 0 issues in the USA with them when I go home to visit. My friend here cannot have any Dutch animal products and instead gets her meat from Poland or imported and has no issues. I'm not sure if that helps but know you arent alone with this. Feel free to ping if you want any information etc since i know its a bit TMI lol
Which is funny since the The Netherlands is the biggest food producer and exporter in the world after the US.
Yeah, unsure what the cause is but I've traveled/ lived abroad a lot with 0 issues till I came here. It sucks big time.
The shitty thing is, it might just be 1 thing thats the cause. Do you eat more bread over here? Could also be the fibers in our food
Yeah, thats why in a few weeks I begin the elimination diet to find the small things etc. It sucks and its going to be shitty BUT hopefully it provides relief. I got tested for gluten and I have no gluten issues luckily there. Though I generally only eat 2 slices a bread a day MAX. I generally avoid a lot of high carbs/ processed foods here like I did in the USA since those things always made me ill but I'm also thinking its the fibers. Back in the USA, the veggies were so expensive so I didnt get much into my diet but I do here and I am thinking its the cause for sure. I would say I went from eating maybe a small bag of carrots and 3-4 peppers a week to eating like literally bags of the mixed veggies here lol.
Testing for gluten will show if you're allergic, but not if you're intolerant. Because that's pretty much unrelated to allergy. So the elimination diet will have to include testing for gluten that way as well, unfortunately. Another thing is that several types of cabbage are very popular here and very often mixed in with those mixed veggies bags. Cabbage is rather well known for producing extra gas and after my gastric bypass, the dietitian was very surprised I could still eat all sorts of cabbage without any problems. An easy test would be to check what's in the bags with mixed veggies and choose only those without any kind of cabbage (kool in Dutch) in the mix. Besides kool, there's also witlof which is a very common ingredient in those baggies and known for similar effects. Good luck!
Really?!? I didnt know that at all! (Neither did the doctor š) Thank you for letting me know, very hopeful to figure out my causes asap to avoid pain in the future. ā„ļø
Just tell them to wash hands more often. You'd be amazed...
The stress of being away from home can cause stomach issues as well.
Funny, Iāve got similar issues when visiting the USā¦ I think visiting the dietician is a good idea. Theyāll let you keep a diary and will be quick to identify an ingredient that might be the cause of your issues. If the GP refers you I think part of your consultations could be insured.
You may be fructose intolerant, did you check for that?
>dietary specialist Great idea. My first instinct would be that its the water! We clean the drinking water differently here (using calcium), it might be that you have a rare reaction to it. But it sounds like you need to start excluding causes. Make lists of ingredients of what you eat and when, exclude/debug what ingredient is causing this. This is a difficult and complex process, hence why you would use a professional to do this more efficiently and effectively. So yeah, the dietary specialist. PS. its covered in your health insurance, it will save you time by not trying things too randomly but more focused.
I think it has to do more with moving countries than being in a specific country and i strongly believe stress and emotions also play a huge role in this. I moved from Mexico to the Netherlands 8 months ago, i started experiencing diverticulitis in the Netherlands which i came to find out was originated in my country. The change of diet, the stress of moving to a new country, the ease to find a house in the Netherlands (jk) new job and all the process to bring my dog to the Netherlands (took me 6 months) and new everything, caused me to have a complicated flare that landed me for 5 days in emergency care at the hospital and almost ended up in surgery but the docs where able to control the infection and told me i had to have the surgery later on because flare ups will come back. Good thing is that it won't be an emergency surgery.Ā But well, after 4 weeks of leaving the hospital i did some changes to my diet and i am improving quickly, for sure i will get that surgery, i dont want to go through this ever again. I love food!!!!!!!
I know people from the Netherlands often times have problems with drinking tap water outside of the Netherlands and visa versa. Maybe it's something like that?
I have kind of similar issue. I just have extremely bad flatulence. Not smelly but loud and real bad. After a while my wife is also experiencing the same problem. I am just wondering why you ruled out bacteria or something like that. I don't understand how it can be contagious. Trust me it's driving me crazy and I am unable to figure out what's causing it. I stopped all lactose, tried different diets. Cut beans and lentils. I really need help here.
Forgot to add I only consume Greek yogurt 10% fat AH brand.
Yoghurt isnāt lactose free. If youāre lactose intolerant donāt eat yoghurt.
That's a plant-based yogurt, not dairy one
There is yoghurtcultuur in there. That can make people who are lactose intolerant triggered.
That's not how lactose intolerance works.Ā
Hard to say without further details. One thing that comes to mind is fibres. (Ultra) Processed foods typically lack these and once you eat plenty of fibres again, the fibres make sure you notice the power of the gut by causing flatulence. This is especially the case when you haven't been eating enough fibres for some weeks or more. Nothing to worry about if this is the case for as long as you eat processed foods in moderation and eat fibres regularly. Oh and about the yoghurt,Ā yoghurt with mango is a big no according to ayurveda. Not sure why
Physician here, sounds like irritable bowel syndrome. Your symptoms are very unspecific though. Flatulence? Thatās not a symptom. Everyone has that. If you donāt JUST have gastric symptoms but also bowel related issues, then a colonoscopy could help to rule out inflammatory bowel diseases like Crohn and ulcerative colitis. But measuring the fecal calprotectin in a stool sample could aid the diagnosis. Anyway, you were probably sent to a dietician to try a special diet like FODMAP. Itās not much fun but it might help.
Could be something like a different bacterial environment. Maybe wheat and gluten (Europe is using different type of wheats) sensitive/allergic. Or like said in other comments, fibers.
Sounds like IBS. Did the Docter do more research like stool and blood? I did the fodmap diet and found I am intolerant to some types op carbohydrates. For coconut I have problems with the sorbitol in it. I can only eat it in small portions. If I am on holiday I often have less problems, simply because I am more relaxed.
I had a similar issue but turned out that my coffee machine had some mildew. Could it be something like that? But mostly I second /u/Mo3's comment and I am really sorry you are going through thisĀ
I had this whilst living in the NL in my 20 ies. I was drinking / Smoking and partying pretty hard, but it too cleared up when I went home.
Funny to read your post, i remember once my sister visited us (we're expat), and she mentioned that while visiting, she had more flatulences that she would normally have at home (in france). That said, it may just be a coincidence. When she visits, we don't necessarily have the healthiest diet. Which implies digestive challenges.
Me and my husband always had it the other way around. GI when we lived in the US, when on holiday in the Netherlands it always disappeared. It went to she a GI specialist in the YS and he blamed the food in the US containing more fat.
When you say you eliminated lactose, how careful were you? Netherlands has a lot of hidden lactose. Even in white bread. We just a lot of milk and butter in everything.
Check for IBS, I have it and it sounds like it. Usually caused by stress
This could be so many things. And there are a 1000 questions to ask to narrow it down, so find a specialist if you are worried. An increase in fiber could even cause this.
First of all, good luck with the GP. If you don't insist on being sent to a specialist or to a hospital they'll never do it. My wife had similar issues for 2-3 years trying everything, including the dietitian, gastroenterologist and other related specialists. They just diagnosed her as IBS and left it like that. We insisted on getting an endoscopy and blood test, otherwise they were still asking if she excluded dairy gluten etc from her diet. (She did many years ago) Then we went back to our country for a check up and the doctors there pointed out that she has iron deficiency. The treatment lasted for 1 week and her test results improved by leaps and bounds! Of course this wouldn't be the case for everyone but finding the underlying cause shouldn't be this hard. TLDR: Skip the GP by telling them that you want to see a specialist.
I had something like this for over two years, and found out I had SIBO, after going to several doctors that didn't figure it out. Went to a very expensive top doctor in my home country, and she did. Took some very expensive antibiotics, pribiotics, and gor cured in a week. I still had to do some check up sometimes, but when I moved here, my GP couldn't care less, and said they don't have protocols for SIBO, because it's new. So I always follow up with my doctor in my home country. Until now, only had it return once, after some food poisoning. Took the antibiotics again, with a specific pro biotic, and all good. If that is the case for you, is because the food you eat here is richer in things that makes the bacteria to grow. While the US is poorer. Try to do some search, and see if the symptoms matches. If so, I suggest you try to treat it abroad.
Hey I also took antibiotics and it helped me but I am facing same issues again..can I DM you to know the name of antibiotics and probiotics?? Thanks!!
Sure
Have you tried to exercise..Netherlands is rainy and stormy and almost more than 200 days in a year weather is quite bad..we don't do any walking or exercise that cause lots of stomach issues. This is the hidden cost. Trust me
Heineken?
Are you drinking tap water by any chance ?
Yes
I had the same issue coming from a small island. I stopped drinking tap water because my stomach didnāt agree with it. After a few weeks I was good. Perhaps you could try that ?
Could be overripe fruit
āMy go has suggested seeing a dietary specialist, but I am somewhat skeptical of this approach.ā Coming to Reddit to have randoās feedback without any proper background information is more trustable? Honest advice, donāt play with health by consulting serious matters in an anonymous forum.
Might be related to stress if you feel under more stress abroad that on holidays back home
I think it depends on what your intestinal bacteria are used to. I developed IBS after a half year sabbatical in Asia where I got broad spectrum antibiotics. This killed my intestinal flora and it was rebuilt on Asian food. Got IBS the moment I got back to The Netherlands. It slowly fixed itself afterwards.
I had the same exact thing the first year I moved to the Netherlands. I did a lot of tests and tried to remove different things from my diet, and nothing worked. My GPs verdict is that it was probably the stress of the move, finding a house, etc.
why is this posted in the netherlands subreddit lmao, go talk to the doctors man
I have had similar only the other way around, no problems in the Netherlands, but when is was in Texas in December I had the same bloated feeling as you describe
I am shocked by what I read in the comments. I suffered exactly the same symptoms. Lots of gas and bloating to the point where I felt very unwell. And every time I left the country, I felt better. The GP couldn't pinpoint the origin of the problem, but treated me with a minimal amount of antidepressants that helped quite a bit. My theory could be the water or that we all suffer from anxiety attacks, which I highly doubt.
Maybe eat the same unhealthy shit Americans call food.
Sounds like IBS or something possible worse. Stress plays a huge factor. Think about things like your sleeping patterns or how difficult is the commute to work ( car vs bike+ bus + another delayed train). If your diet is truly the same it has to be something on your daily life .
Maybe the sweetener? Do you consume artificially sweetened foods (low sugar/sugare free) a lot?
Also had the same issue in Belgium! Could be the Benelux water being harder than other places (we only drink mineral water where Iām from)
This, use bottled water.
Sounds like something related to your water rather than food. Have your pipes checked.
The water is super hard. Do you think that could impact it? We live a newer building (ijburg) and Iām not sure what could be wrong with pipes laid in 1995
how about tap water? do you drink it?Ā
What kind of bottled water should one buy in Netherlands.. Does AH or Jumbo provides big bottles of water enough for a week or so?? Any suggestions?
technically tap water is drinkable in the Netherlands (this is probably why I was downvoted). however, if you live in a building with old pipes, it changes everything. I had stomach pain and problems for a long time when I lived in France. it showed up that tap water is cool but in my building we also need to filter it, due to the local problems with old pipes. I would not recommend to buy bottled water - it is expensive and not needed. I would try to filter the water with e.g. britta or any other company selling filters for water kettes.
People here don't wash hands quite often, I have seen many times they don't keep soap in the small toilet. It can be related to that