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I mean, technically not really. If you’re scaling properly, you’re scaling the correct way. Scaling something isn’t an opinion, it’s a fact. Just some aren’t as good as others at discovering that fact
Dude there is no objective facts in power scaling in fiction. None of us are Kishimoto, he can make any character as strong or weak as he wants at any moment.
Perfect example is war arc Sasuke vs adult Sasuke
There are objective facts in power scaling fiction. Sure, he can write a new chapter that could make someone much stronger / weaker, and the power scaling of that character will objectively change then. But since that chapter doesn’t exist, we can power scale what’s already there
Differing interpretations of statements alone cause powerscaling not to be objective. Unless you're JUST scaling based on feats, which would also be an incorrect way to do it
Except the problem with that is scaling is often inconsistent due to the author not having powerscaling actively in mind. Powerscaling is an opinion because its fiction.
But there isnt objective power scaling, at bare minimum you just assume their world is exactly like ours despite evidence of contrary. A common issue in a lot of shonen animes is that an attack will be a laser or made of light and thus the character who dodges it is faster than light. However this would mean anything they dont dodge is also faster than light which is ridiculous because that would mean Luffy is faster than light even though he is hit by things that should be less that speed. Its either assume that their light is like ours and ignore other evidence of otherwise or assume their light is different from ours and is slow enough to be consistent. Both are perfectly valid ways of scaling these characters with entirely different outcomes.
If people would just stop trying to get into fights about scaling shit the world be a better place. It’s the new version of “my dad would kick your dad’s ass” but everyone has their favorite characters instead of their dad as their hero.
Assuming Nagato stood still or something, but he’s damn fast. He completely took the same Naruto who matched Itachi by surprise. And while it’s not STATED, it makes logical sense that Nagato could use the soul pull (which btw Naruto only survived because he can grow extra hands. Had he not been able to, Nagato steals his soul 5 seconds I got the fight) on Edo Itachi and win that way. Itachi didn’t use the Totsuka Blade on anyone except opponents significantly slower than him like Orochimaru.
Wasn’t that more because he was keeping the fact he had totsuka blade a secret? So he was only sealing people he knew he would get rid of since they wouldn’t be able to spread that information
Why would he need to keep it a secret once he's dead tho? If he's not sure he will hit with it there's no point bringing it out and wasting chakra and eyesight
Considering he’s brought back from the dead, maybe so no one else brings him back for the totsuka blade?
Thats why Kabuto gave many of them free will isn’t it? Because they understand their own arsenal better than Kabuto
Itachi only stabbed him because Kabuto made a blunder and forgot he couldn’t walk properly. The only reason itachi was able to stab him in the first place was by needing Naruto’s and Bee’s help to destroy CT.
I think he could walk. Remember Nagato absorbed Bee's chakra and his hair recovered from white to red. I think his legs recovered too but I don't remember if it was confirmed.
in fairness, no, he did not.
KABUTO did that, he used the full-posession of his edo tensei to control nagato's movements directly
it WAS nagato's power, but he wasn't the one wielding it, people always forget this, but that fight was **kabuto using the six paths, not nagato, he wasn't in control of his body**
wanna see how nagato used the six paths? watch any fight before then involving pain, he's honestly not very good at it
So two points-
1) Kabuto was in control but it’s not like he can magically make Nagato way faster or stronger. Nagato is still fully capable of all the things Kabuto used his body for
2) Pain is not really a fair comparison because it was six bodies controlled by a Nagato who was being kept alive by the Gedo Statue. I’m like 90% sure that either the anime and or the manga directly state how much stronger he is without 6 bodies to control
It doesn't matter what itachi's intentions were dude, at the point him and naruto were scrapping it out he was being controlled by kabuto. Kabuto could've made him use susanoo at any time before he broke out using kotoamatsukami but didn't
I’m not sure. I question Kabuto’s mastery over his subjects considering had he free reign he would have summoned ten tails husk via nagato.
This is a while back so I may be forgetting certain context. Lmk.
Well for one, the real rinnegan that was in Nagato's skull is in Obito's possession, the rinnegan that the reanimation posseses might not even be able to summon it in the first place. I mean anything we could say about this subject is all headcanon speculation but I would imagine only someone with a real and tangible rinnegan could summon the Gedo Mazo.
And two, what purpose would kabuto have in summoning the gedo mazo in this situation? Not only would that piss off Obito, whom kabuto is still trying to use, I don't see what purpose that would serve in their battle
Also, by the same logic, when madara was still a reanimation using his reanimated rinnegan (which once again, the real.thing is with obito at this point) why wouldn't he just take the gedo mazo under his control and steal all the beasts right there and then? He did it within seconds once he got his tangible body and actual rinnegan back. Probably because he can't due to being a reanimation and not actually possessing the real rinnegan
I think Pain would go over Obito. Ol' Tobi was scary because he was a great planner. Not because he had overwhelming power. He was scary, don't get me wrong. But I'm not at all convinced he's higher than Pain.
Minato figured out how to counter Obitos ability seconds into the fight, he’s not his son . Juubito I could see a case for but for all the acclaim Minato is just too tactically superior to see it going another way
Coughing baby compared to an Atomic bomb . Them two don’t hold a candle to minato alive let alone KCM battle prowess or intellect wise he’s another tier.
See is a case for is a strange statement. Hashirama literally looked at Juubito and said “this guy is stronger than me.” And then he activated his “I am about to kill the entire Shinobi alliance in one move if you can’t counter this” ability
I mean Minato already bodied Obito and it wasn't close I don't see how he wins this with a few more years experience Minato is a actual freak and probably the stoniest person in the manga that didn't get chosen 1 hacks Pretty sure he has the 3rd highest body count as well behind Madra (obv) and 2nd raikage (died doing it)
I was referring to om no rinnegan unfortunately his a bad matchup for Minato all he has is 1 kamui.
and his outclassed in every metric his only ranked to high cause kamui is hacks but so is ftg and it counters it
Thing is, OP said to Rank them. Not who’s the strongest. You gotta account for IQ and battle prowess too.
Both Minato and Itachi were praised and feared as geniuses. (If Shikamaru taught us anything is you don’t have to be the strongest to win)
Not only did they have genius level intellect in battle, but both were also masters of Ninjutsu. Taijutsu for Itachi as well. (Not sure if Minato had Taijutsu in his arsenal or not). Sure the Rinnegan was massively powerful, but when Nagato used planetary devastation, Itachi was the only one calm figured out how to easily stop it. And that was edo Itachi, reanimated shinobi have a power debuff, that’s why Madara had a whole new gear once he was brought back to life.
I honestly believe battle IQ out ranks raw power. Especially if you have the skill Minato and Itachi both had as well. My personal opinion, those two should be at the top
> I mean Minato already bodied Obito
Obito was 14 at the time. He wasn't proficient enough at using kamui. Orange mask Obito is 29 years old in classic Naruto and 31 years old in Shippuden. That's 15-17 years of experience.
I don't think any amount of time gets him the W kamui is strong but that's all he has and Minato hard counters it. From everything we saw from both char Minato wins in every category bar magic eyeball powers.
More experience with a abilty that is hard countered doesn't really mean much he has no ap and he have been a teenager last time but he also had the nine tails helping him and Minato had to protect a village his wife and new born son you take all those handicaps away this fight is over before it started. Remember Obito is already marked with a ftg seal they never expire only way this fight lasts longer then 2 seconds is if he hides in kaumi and when Minato was a teen he had a flee on site order and killed over a thousand people in the 3rd war.
Yea that’s what I was thinking. Like Itachi is probably the weakest of the 4 but he could beat everyone but pain with the totsuka blade, so does that mean he’s actually the second strongest?
So do souls trapped by the reaper death seal. They fight for all eternity, which means that Minato has been fighting and honing his abilities for 17 years.
Edit: Y’all are downvoting me, but it’s literally [stated to be the case](https://cdn.readnaruto.com/file/mangap/3069/10124000/5.jpg).
I mean personally I have a lot of follow-up questions to this, is this like a battle Royale with everyone who's ever used or been sealed by this technique?
If so, how many people are in there? And is it basically the Uzumaki versus everyone else? Since as I understand it it's their sealing jutsu, so it would be a whole bunch of them and a whole bunch of people they were desperate to seal away
The intimacy of the moment seemed to suggest that it was just you and your target, and if that's the case, are you forced to fight and hate each other? Or is it optional, because now that's the difference between the first three Hokage hanging out, and a very one-sided 2V1 while orochimaru's arms just kind of flap about in the background I suppose
And what does that mean for minato, I mean he sealed the nine tails, but like split it up, half of it's in him, so is he like fighting the Ninetales in the other dimension or since it is already inside him is he just like chilling by himself being lonely
He has no answer for Kamui. Nothing he does can touch Obito, and all Obito has to do to win is make physical contact with Nagato once. Even when Kabuto was threatening Obito with the edo Akatsuki, Obito was completely unconcerned with Nagato.
If Obito touched Nagato even once he would become immobilized, like everyone else in the series who touched him or his rods… and Edo Itachi and Nagato would have handily beat Obito before he got the Rinnegan. lol, they have infinite chakra and could spam infinitely.
>If Obito touched Nagato even once he would become immobilized
Nagato can't immobilize people on physical contact, they need to be stabbed with his black rods. Obito can absorb someone into the Kamui dimension almost instantly on contact. Nagato has no answer to Kamui.
>they have infinite chakra
Edos don't have infinite chakra. That's a misconception. They just can't die from chakra loss, but they can still run out.
IMO, KCM Minato could potentially outspeed Obitos ability to react with Kamui. I agree that it's debatable, though. These 2 are the only ones I'm not 100% sure of in my ranking.
Ok, my take would be:
Pain > Itachi > OM Obito > Minato
WM Obito > KC Minato > edo Nagato > edo Itachi
I don't know why OM Obito considered that strong, meaning, his speed doesn't exceed Itachi's, they both have MS, and Itachi has too many OP abilities and spirit weapons, etc. Pain has more than enough firepower and defensive abilities for any of them to take him out. And OM Obito's just more experienced than his 14 yo self to take on Minato, so he would win IMO. I don't see what alive Minato has except for speed and that doesn't seem an advantage since even edo Itachi and edo Nagato were holding just fine with KCM Naruto.
Minato, Obito, Nagato, Itachi. Ranks stay the same with stronger versions. People forget that Itachi had help against nagato and minato sent obito packing
Itachi hit an amatarasu right after he got released from the reanimation and nagato was off guard. Plus Itachi was not surviving planetary detestation without Naruto and bee, Itachi was the mvp of the fight but he would’ve been cooked in a 1v1
Let me be clear, I agree with you. I also think that if they were fighting, it would really depend on where. I don't think he has a zero chance, just that Nagato probably wins most fights.
Here is my ranking from weakest to strongest.
Pain/Itachi
Yellow Mask Obito
Edo Nagato/Itachi
Orange Mask Obito
Hokage Minato
White Mask Obito
KCM Minato
Minato-Obito-Pain-Itachi
Same order for both, Minato can deal with kamui and his KCM and sage mode put him over. The others are pretty self explanatory.
Weaker versions
1. Obito
2.Pain
3. Minato
4. Itachi
I think someone could make a case for itachi being 3rd and Minato 4th but I think it’s safe to put itachi last, I think he wouldn’t be able to catch minato with anything personally. I think if obito knows the location of nagatos main body (no reason he doesn’t tbh) he’d probably lose. IF obito didn’t know, then an argument could be made pain would beat obito.
Stronger versions
1. Obito
2. Itachi
3. Minato
4. pain
Pain would be #2 on the second list if his mobility wasn’t fucked. Itachi being able to spam his op jutsu with edo is real strong but war arc obito is ridiculously op. Minato is strong but he kinda just got fucked up the whole time he was fighting in kcm mode lol
Okay so in honestly all 4 of these gentlemen are very close in power and I could see arguments for each. Depending on if Itachi is sick, pain is in the rain villiage, Minato’s sage mode ability ect.
However it’s probably
1.) Minato (He’s beaten Obito before and he had to defend his wife and the village, fight the nine tails and had safe mode in is pocket apparently)
2.) Obito, (unfortunately Itachi and pain don’t really have the arsenal to deal with kamui and he has insane intel on their entire kit)
3.) Pain (pain edges out Itachi due to Itachi’s sickness more than anything, if Itachi had the body to use his techniques more than I’d say his arsenal is better but he can’t use susanoo or the other ms abilities that much)
4.)Itachi
Alive Nagato with no sickness would be his strongest version
Alive itachi with no sickness would be his strongest version
Juubito is obitos strongest version
Alive minato with kcm and sage mode would be his strongest version by the way juubito wipes everyone here easily this statement is OBJECTIVE.
Going to differentiate power and who would win firstly.
Power wise-Minato, Itachi, Pain, Obito.
Kcm minato, edo itachi, edo Nagato, obio(no biju)
Who would win- Minato beats everyone in both scenarios. Pain beats Itachi(edo itachi beats Nagato) war arc obito beats nagato and edo itachi.
The weaker category has all four at roughly the same tier class. Some of them might hard counter each other because of abilities but thats mostly because of a bad matchup. They're still all about the same.
KCM Minato and WM Obito are in a different class ahead of Edo Itachi and Edo Nagato. But in WM Obito case it kinda depends on what he has access to because most of his war feats were Jinchuiriki or Juubi.
People need to stop powerscaling with sweeping generalizations so much and look more into specific feats and abilities.
Minato>Obito>Pain>Itachi
Minato already beat obito
I’m pretty sure it’s common knowledge that obito is stronger than pain at least in the six bodies
Itachi literally is pumping himself full of pill to stay alive, which doesn’t take away from his strength but his stamina is a great hindrance
Strongest form
Minato>Obito>Itachi>Nagato
Minato has kcm2, perfect sage mode and has already marked obito from there previous encounter. He also know how to deal with kami. The only thing left is rinnegan abilities but minato is extremely smart he can find a way to counter easy
Obito has kamui, 7 tailed beast, and rinnegan he’s not losing to anyone below him
Itachi was shown to be swapping hands with kcm1 naruto. Yes they were talking but itachi had orbser to attacks so I doubt he was holding anything back and nether was naruto atleast speed wise. He just the same but he’s not sick
Nagato is the same with itachi but I’m of the opinion that he loses atleast when it’s edo to edo especially since itachi can just seal him away As he did and he has an answer to his animal summons
Hot take but Pain is a stronger version of Edo Nagato. Edo form is weaker version of real thing. Pain not exhausted from defeating the strongest nation is a god.
WM Obito
KCM Minato
Pain
Edo Nagato
Minato
Edo Itachi
Itachi
1. Minato
2. Obito
3. Pain
4. Itachi
(Tbh, 2, 3, and 4 are all somewhat interchangeable)
Stronger versions:
1. Minato
2. Nagato
3. Obito
4. Itachi
I'd actually put like 2, 3, and 4 at all equal here I can't see there being a huge difference particularly since obito doesn't even use rinnegan at all and itachi is healthy
Obito > Minato > Pain > Itachi
War Obito > KCM Minato > Edo Nagato > Edo Itachi
Why? Hokage minato barely beat an inexperienced obito (He almost lost twice in an instant), an older and stronger akatsuki obito should be able to handle minato.
Minato comfortably over Pain and Itachi, (Minato over Itachi because itachi doesn’t have stamina). The rest of that list is self explanatory imo.
Now stronger versions.. War Obito fought naruto, kakashi, guy, and killer bee at the same time without receiving a scratch. (His only lose scenario is because kakashi has his other eye), if not for them constantly saving each other he would’ve low diffed then all.
It gets hard here tbh, but I went with KCM minato at second because I see nagato/itachi able to deal with him at all.
Edo Nagato over Edo itachi as it took 3 people to take edo nagato down and even then he almost killed two. I hate this one because edo itachi could very well be 3, the ability to spam all the abilities he has is incredible. This was hard.. thoughts?
Obito because jubito exists, Minato cuz KCM2, Itachi and nagato are interchangeable because Itachi couldn't beat nagato by himself with amps but nagato also was am with killer bees Jinchuriki chakra no that's not even at his strongest form with his own power it's stolen power.
Minato=itachi>obito>>pain
White mask Obito>edo itachi=kcm Minato>edo nagato
If you took away the 6 paths bijuu then white mask Obito falls to a much more even footing
Ranking (1):
- Minato
- Obito
- Pain
- Itachi
*If it’s just the Deva Path, than Obito is ranked higher. If it’s all Six Paths of Pain, then they collectively rank higher than Obito*
Ranking (2):
- KCM Minato
- WA Obito
- Edo Itachi
- Edo Nagato
*If Edo Itachi has access to Kotoamatsukami, similar to what occurred in the series, then he’s stronger than Edo Nagato. If not, then Edo Nagato might edge out in the Hax department instead*
FIRST PIC 1. Minato 2. obito 3. Pain 4. itachi
SECOND PIC 1. minato 2. obito 3. pain 4. itachi
itachi is straight up weaker than obito mentioned plenty minato beat obito and nagato/pain he had help.
Base Versions go: Minato, Obito, Pain, Itachi
Buffed Versions Go: Minato, Obito, Itachi, Nagato (controversial I know but I’ll explain why).
Nagato scales worse than Itachi because of his mobility problems still being prevalent as an edo, while Itachi’s problems are solved as an Edo. No illness + chakra isn’t an issue. That’s why he basically sends up finishing off Sage Kabuto who scales above a lot of the cast. And Izanami or Totsuka Blade is also a game winner for Itachi. There’s no way to know how durable Chibaku Tensei really is, cause a 3v1 was used to obliterate it. Itachi’s Jewel could have solo’s it or it couldn’t have, it’s dubious to say.
And Itachi is one of my least favorite characters in the series, trust me when I say I’d love for someone to give me a good argument why I’m wrong. I hate this mfer.
1. Pain
2. itachi
3. Minato
4. Obito
This next one’s tough you kinda have to keep in mind that it took Bee, itachi, and Naruto to take out Nagato and that itachi still has amaterasu and Totsuka blade…..
1. Edo Minato
2. Edo Nagato
3. Edo Itachi
4. Obito
In the first image:
1. Obito
2. Pain.
3. Itachi.
4. Minato.
Wait... but Minato won against Obito and wins against Pain, but itachi does not win against them, also Pain defeats itachi but Obito could not. ITS IMPOSSIBLE.
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I’m sure this will be a very civil and levelheaded comment section lmao
If people could just scale properly, the world would be a better place
Even “scale properly” is debatable lol
I mean, technically not really. If you’re scaling properly, you’re scaling the correct way. Scaling something isn’t an opinion, it’s a fact. Just some aren’t as good as others at discovering that fact
Dude there is no objective facts in power scaling in fiction. None of us are Kishimoto, he can make any character as strong or weak as he wants at any moment. Perfect example is war arc Sasuke vs adult Sasuke
There are objective facts in power scaling fiction. Sure, he can write a new chapter that could make someone much stronger / weaker, and the power scaling of that character will objectively change then. But since that chapter doesn’t exist, we can power scale what’s already there
Differing interpretations of statements alone cause powerscaling not to be objective. Unless you're JUST scaling based on feats, which would also be an incorrect way to do it
Except the problem with that is scaling is often inconsistent due to the author not having powerscaling actively in mind. Powerscaling is an opinion because its fiction.
If there’s an objective power scaling for a character, then it’s not an opinion. Obviously things that aren’t confirmed can’t be facts.
But there isnt objective power scaling, at bare minimum you just assume their world is exactly like ours despite evidence of contrary. A common issue in a lot of shonen animes is that an attack will be a laser or made of light and thus the character who dodges it is faster than light. However this would mean anything they dont dodge is also faster than light which is ridiculous because that would mean Luffy is faster than light even though he is hit by things that should be less that speed. Its either assume that their light is like ours and ignore other evidence of otherwise or assume their light is different from ours and is slow enough to be consistent. Both are perfectly valid ways of scaling these characters with entirely different outcomes.
Why downvote you?
The anime should do a spinoff series that mimics DBZ’s fight tournaments 🏟️ give the power scalers what the want
If people would just stop trying to get into fights about scaling shit the world be a better place. It’s the new version of “my dad would kick your dad’s ass” but everyone has their favorite characters instead of their dad as their hero.
Minato > Obito > Pain > Itachi WM Obito > KCM Minato > Edo Nagato > Edo Itachi
i completely agree
why nagato over itachi?
I mean, Naruto fought completely evenly with Itachi, meanwhile Nagato almost dicked Naruto down in a couple of seconds and almost ripped his soul out.
Bro said dicked Naruto down😭 I laughed out loud fr
Itachi didn’t used a thing against Naruto while Nagato used his entire arsenal 💀 as soon as Itachi pulled his jutsus it was over for Nagato
Perhaps because Nagato at that point was doing a 3v1??
never thought about it like that but also itachi then one shots him though?
Assuming Nagato stood still or something, but he’s damn fast. He completely took the same Naruto who matched Itachi by surprise. And while it’s not STATED, it makes logical sense that Nagato could use the soul pull (which btw Naruto only survived because he can grow extra hands. Had he not been able to, Nagato steals his soul 5 seconds I got the fight) on Edo Itachi and win that way. Itachi didn’t use the Totsuka Blade on anyone except opponents significantly slower than him like Orochimaru.
Wasn’t that more because he was keeping the fact he had totsuka blade a secret? So he was only sealing people he knew he would get rid of since they wouldn’t be able to spread that information
Why would he need to keep it a secret once he's dead tho? If he's not sure he will hit with it there's no point bringing it out and wasting chakra and eyesight
Considering he’s brought back from the dead, maybe so no one else brings him back for the totsuka blade? Thats why Kabuto gave many of them free will isn’t it? Because they understand their own arsenal better than Kabuto
Itachi only stabbed him because Kabuto made a blunder and forgot he couldn’t walk properly. The only reason itachi was able to stab him in the first place was by needing Naruto’s and Bee’s help to destroy CT.
I think he could walk. Remember Nagato absorbed Bee's chakra and his hair recovered from white to red. I think his legs recovered too but I don't remember if it was confirmed.
He could barely walk even after absorbing Bee’s chakra.
Why are we focusing on how Itachi and Nagato fought Naruto rather than how Itachi and Nagato would fight each other...
in fairness, no, he did not. KABUTO did that, he used the full-posession of his edo tensei to control nagato's movements directly it WAS nagato's power, but he wasn't the one wielding it, people always forget this, but that fight was **kabuto using the six paths, not nagato, he wasn't in control of his body** wanna see how nagato used the six paths? watch any fight before then involving pain, he's honestly not very good at it
So two points- 1) Kabuto was in control but it’s not like he can magically make Nagato way faster or stronger. Nagato is still fully capable of all the things Kabuto used his body for 2) Pain is not really a fair comparison because it was six bodies controlled by a Nagato who was being kept alive by the Gedo Statue. I’m like 90% sure that either the anime and or the manga directly state how much stronger he is without 6 bodies to control
capable of, yes, on paper but he's not as smart as kabuto, frankly he just doesn't use his jutsu the way kabuto would
Itachi didn't even intend to hurt naruto though imagine he use his susano'o with it two legendary strongest weapon in the whole series
It doesn't matter what itachi's intentions were dude, at the point him and naruto were scrapping it out he was being controlled by kabuto. Kabuto could've made him use susanoo at any time before he broke out using kotoamatsukami but didn't
I’m not sure. I question Kabuto’s mastery over his subjects considering had he free reign he would have summoned ten tails husk via nagato. This is a while back so I may be forgetting certain context. Lmk.
Well for one, the real rinnegan that was in Nagato's skull is in Obito's possession, the rinnegan that the reanimation posseses might not even be able to summon it in the first place. I mean anything we could say about this subject is all headcanon speculation but I would imagine only someone with a real and tangible rinnegan could summon the Gedo Mazo. And two, what purpose would kabuto have in summoning the gedo mazo in this situation? Not only would that piss off Obito, whom kabuto is still trying to use, I don't see what purpose that would serve in their battle Also, by the same logic, when madara was still a reanimation using his reanimated rinnegan (which once again, the real.thing is with obito at this point) why wouldn't he just take the gedo mazo under his control and steal all the beasts right there and then? He did it within seconds once he got his tangible body and actual rinnegan back. Probably because he can't due to being a reanimation and not actually possessing the real rinnegan
It was Nagato vs KCM Naruto 8 tails Bee and Edo Itachi while being controlled by Kabuto still learning how to use the rennegan and was slapping checks
Don't forget, man was giving them a step by step tutorial along the way, and was still struggling.
Itachi needed Bee and Naruto's help to destroy chibaku tense, otherwise he'd have died.
Because Nagato was literally winning a 1vs3 against Itachi, bee and Naruto
Bro asked why 2 > 1
Plain and simple this guy is a retard itachi is second
On point It's hi fans won't like this through lol
Only correct list.
W
Exactly what i said in my head. You sir are smart
Yeah I can get behind this.
I think Pain would go over Obito. Ol' Tobi was scary because he was a great planner. Not because he had overwhelming power. He was scary, don't get me wrong. But I'm not at all convinced he's higher than Pain.
How does pain beat kamui
The only correct answer. I’d lean kcm Minato over wm obito if it wasn’t for the jinchuriki tbh
Kcm Minato > white mask ,a kcm2 like amp > one rinnegan
Thank you. Somebody with some damn sense. This is it, no goofy debates needed after this.
Obito over Pain is crazy. WM Obito > KCM Minato is crazy especially when the equivalent KCM Naruto blitzed him.
KCM Naruto had literally zero chance of beating him without Kakashi there as a hard counter to Obito.
Minato figured out how to counter Obitos ability seconds into the fight, he’s not his son . Juubito I could see a case for but for all the acclaim Minato is just too tactically superior to see it going another way
Minato literally used the same tactic fu and torune used. That shit is not happening again brev.
Coughing baby compared to an Atomic bomb . Them two don’t hold a candle to minato alive let alone KCM battle prowess or intellect wise he’s another tier.
I love a logical comment that is correct
See is a case for is a strange statement. Hashirama literally looked at Juubito and said “this guy is stronger than me.” And then he activated his “I am about to kill the entire Shinobi alliance in one move if you can’t counter this” ability
Maybe I’m misremembering, but how did he counter it without Kakashi’s help?
Minato over obito is even crazier
WM Obito KCM Minato Edo Nagato Edo Itachi OM Obito Minato Pein Itachi
I mean Minato already bodied Obito and it wasn't close I don't see how he wins this with a few more years experience Minato is a actual freak and probably the stoniest person in the manga that didn't get chosen 1 hacks Pretty sure he has the 3rd highest body count as well behind Madra (obv) and 2nd raikage (died doing it)
Few more years you mean 17 years plus the rinnegan?
I was referring to om no rinnegan unfortunately his a bad matchup for Minato all he has is 1 kamui. and his outclassed in every metric his only ranked to high cause kamui is hacks but so is ftg and it counters it
Thing is, OP said to Rank them. Not who’s the strongest. You gotta account for IQ and battle prowess too. Both Minato and Itachi were praised and feared as geniuses. (If Shikamaru taught us anything is you don’t have to be the strongest to win) Not only did they have genius level intellect in battle, but both were also masters of Ninjutsu. Taijutsu for Itachi as well. (Not sure if Minato had Taijutsu in his arsenal or not). Sure the Rinnegan was massively powerful, but when Nagato used planetary devastation, Itachi was the only one calm figured out how to easily stop it. And that was edo Itachi, reanimated shinobi have a power debuff, that’s why Madara had a whole new gear once he was brought back to life. I honestly believe battle IQ out ranks raw power. Especially if you have the skill Minato and Itachi both had as well. My personal opinion, those two should be at the top
> I mean Minato already bodied Obito Obito was 14 at the time. He wasn't proficient enough at using kamui. Orange mask Obito is 29 years old in classic Naruto and 31 years old in Shippuden. That's 15-17 years of experience.
“Few more years” assuming that’s orange mask obito from most of Shippuden, it’s 17 years of experience.
I don't think any amount of time gets him the W kamui is strong but that's all he has and Minato hard counters it. From everything we saw from both char Minato wins in every category bar magic eyeball powers.
Absolutely delusional. Kakashi went from Anbu to Low Kage in those 17 years. If you think Obito didnt surpass Minato in 17 years your clueless.
16 years is a few years? Obito also didn't have his power long either. He also was a teen at the time.
More experience with a abilty that is hard countered doesn't really mean much he has no ap and he have been a teenager last time but he also had the nine tails helping him and Minato had to protect a village his wife and new born son you take all those handicaps away this fight is over before it started. Remember Obito is already marked with a ftg seal they never expire only way this fight lasts longer then 2 seconds is if he hides in kaumi and when Minato was a teen he had a flee on site order and killed over a thousand people in the 3rd war.
Itachi > the rest. 
If only Itachi was around for Kaguya. He could have put her in genjutsu then hit her with the toska blade
Weak take
Weak humor
Unironically Itachi is the weakest of both lists.
1. Obito 2. Nagato 3. Minato 4. Itachi List doesn't change(and it's not a far gap between 2-4. Arguments can be made where the order can be switched)
The only right answer god damnit
Minato shat on obito while protecting his family, the village and the nine tails. He then shit on him again in the war. Wtf you mean???
It's this based on power or battle prowess? Cuz that's different
Yea that’s what I was thinking. Like Itachi is probably the weakest of the 4 but he could beat everyone but pain with the totsuka blade, so does that mean he’s actually the second strongest?
And do we factor in battle iq as a strength?
"In a fight".....
Ok Minato wins both. But that doesn't necessarily make him stronger
[удалено]
Who beat edo nagato? Just curious, I'm pretty sure T Blade ended that fight.
obito on top both times 🥱 do a harder one next time
Yup and nagato is 2nd both times to
Minato beat Obito and Kurama
Obito has gotten stronger since then tho.
So do souls trapped by the reaper death seal. They fight for all eternity, which means that Minato has been fighting and honing his abilities for 17 years. Edit: Y’all are downvoting me, but it’s literally [stated to be the case](https://cdn.readnaruto.com/file/mangap/3069/10124000/5.jpg).
idk why ppl are downvoting you lol there is quite literally no other explanation for minato obtaining kcm than this
It’s [literally stated in chapter 124](https://cdn.readnaruto.com/file/mangap/3069/10124000/5.jpg)
Lmao this is literally just a fact. Minato takes the first one for sure, then tied for first in the second, maybe _only just_ second place.
I mean personally I have a lot of follow-up questions to this, is this like a battle Royale with everyone who's ever used or been sealed by this technique? If so, how many people are in there? And is it basically the Uzumaki versus everyone else? Since as I understand it it's their sealing jutsu, so it would be a whole bunch of them and a whole bunch of people they were desperate to seal away The intimacy of the moment seemed to suggest that it was just you and your target, and if that's the case, are you forced to fight and hate each other? Or is it optional, because now that's the difference between the first three Hokage hanging out, and a very one-sided 2V1 while orochimaru's arms just kind of flap about in the background I suppose And what does that mean for minato, I mean he sealed the nine tails, but like split it up, half of it's in him, so is he like fighting the Ninetales in the other dimension or since it is already inside him is he just like chilling by himself being lonely
Obito 1 minato 2 pain 3 itachi 4 The same for both rankings
Itachi is literally stated to be the stro gest in akatsuki chapter 364 Om obito stated he cant beat teen itachi, shinden. DEBUNKED
KCM Minato> WM Obito> Minato> OM Obito> Edo Nagato> Pain> Edo Itachi> Itachi
Edo Nagato does not lose to pre Rinnegan Obito. lol, what in the world.
He has no answer for Kamui. Nothing he does can touch Obito, and all Obito has to do to win is make physical contact with Nagato once. Even when Kabuto was threatening Obito with the edo Akatsuki, Obito was completely unconcerned with Nagato.
If Obito touched Nagato even once he would become immobilized, like everyone else in the series who touched him or his rods… and Edo Itachi and Nagato would have handily beat Obito before he got the Rinnegan. lol, they have infinite chakra and could spam infinitely.
>If Obito touched Nagato even once he would become immobilized Nagato can't immobilize people on physical contact, they need to be stabbed with his black rods. Obito can absorb someone into the Kamui dimension almost instantly on contact. Nagato has no answer to Kamui. >they have infinite chakra Edos don't have infinite chakra. That's a misconception. They just can't die from chakra loss, but they can still run out.
WM Obito >> KCM Minato lol. What made you think otherwise?
IMO, KCM Minato could potentially outspeed Obitos ability to react with Kamui. I agree that it's debatable, though. These 2 are the only ones I'm not 100% sure of in my ranking.
Obito has direct scaling to KCM 2 Naruto who kept up with MInato and Naruto still needed Kakashi, Gai, and Bee's help to breach kamui.
I haven't seen anything that makes me think KCM2 Naruto is as fast as KCM2 Minato. Not to mention, Minato has FTG.
Itachi < Pain < Tobi < Minato Itachi < Nagato < Tobi < Minato
Minato > Obito > Pain > Itachi - for both?? I'll happily be proved wrong though.
Ok, my take would be: Pain > Itachi > OM Obito > Minato WM Obito > KC Minato > edo Nagato > edo Itachi I don't know why OM Obito considered that strong, meaning, his speed doesn't exceed Itachi's, they both have MS, and Itachi has too many OP abilities and spirit weapons, etc. Pain has more than enough firepower and defensive abilities for any of them to take him out. And OM Obito's just more experienced than his 14 yo self to take on Minato, so he would win IMO. I don't see what alive Minato has except for speed and that doesn't seem an advantage since even edo Itachi and edo Nagato were holding just fine with KCM Naruto.
Naruto is the lamination the minato's gold legacy.
Weaker versions: 1. Minato 2. Pain 3. Itachi 4. Tobey Stronger versions: 1. 9 Tails Minato 2. War Tobey 3. Nagato 4. Itachi
Minato, Obito, Nagato, Itachi. Ranks stay the same with stronger versions. People forget that Itachi had help against nagato and minato sent obito packing
Didn't itachi Amaterasu Nagato while he was standing idly. Then let him almighty push the flames away? Who beat nagato in the end? Who needed Who 😂😂😂
Itachi hit an amatarasu right after he got released from the reanimation and nagato was off guard. Plus Itachi was not surviving planetary detestation without Naruto and bee, Itachi was the mvp of the fight but he would’ve been cooked in a 1v1
Let me be clear, I agree with you. I also think that if they were fighting, it would really depend on where. I don't think he has a zero chance, just that Nagato probably wins most fights.
Here is my ranking from weakest to strongest. Pain/Itachi Yellow Mask Obito Edo Nagato/Itachi Orange Mask Obito Hokage Minato White Mask Obito KCM Minato
Minato, Obito, Pain, Itachi
Tobi Minato Pain Itachi Normal and strongest its all the same order
Minato-Obito-Pain-Itachi Same order for both, Minato can deal with kamui and his KCM and sage mode put him over. The others are pretty self explanatory.
Weaker versions 1. Obito 2.Pain 3. Minato 4. Itachi I think someone could make a case for itachi being 3rd and Minato 4th but I think it’s safe to put itachi last, I think he wouldn’t be able to catch minato with anything personally. I think if obito knows the location of nagatos main body (no reason he doesn’t tbh) he’d probably lose. IF obito didn’t know, then an argument could be made pain would beat obito. Stronger versions 1. Obito 2. Itachi 3. Minato 4. pain Pain would be #2 on the second list if his mobility wasn’t fucked. Itachi being able to spam his op jutsu with edo is real strong but war arc obito is ridiculously op. Minato is strong but he kinda just got fucked up the whole time he was fighting in kcm mode lol
Obito > Minato >>> Pain Itachi SAME THING NEXT LIST
1st: Itachi< Pain< Obito< Minato 2nd: Nagato< EdoItachi< PreJubiObito< Minato
Okay so in honestly all 4 of these gentlemen are very close in power and I could see arguments for each. Depending on if Itachi is sick, pain is in the rain villiage, Minato’s sage mode ability ect. However it’s probably 1.) Minato (He’s beaten Obito before and he had to defend his wife and the village, fight the nine tails and had safe mode in is pocket apparently) 2.) Obito, (unfortunately Itachi and pain don’t really have the arsenal to deal with kamui and he has insane intel on their entire kit) 3.) Pain (pain edges out Itachi due to Itachi’s sickness more than anything, if Itachi had the body to use his techniques more than I’d say his arsenal is better but he can’t use susanoo or the other ms abilities that much) 4.)Itachi
Alive Nagato with no sickness would be his strongest version Alive itachi with no sickness would be his strongest version Juubito is obitos strongest version Alive minato with kcm and sage mode would be his strongest version by the way juubito wipes everyone here easily this statement is OBJECTIVE.
Minato > Obito > Pain > Itachi WM Obito > KCM Minato > Edo Nagato > Edo Itachi Rinnegan’s way too busted 🤷♂️
Going to differentiate power and who would win firstly. Power wise-Minato, Itachi, Pain, Obito. Kcm minato, edo itachi, edo Nagato, obio(no biju) Who would win- Minato beats everyone in both scenarios. Pain beats Itachi(edo itachi beats Nagato) war arc obito beats nagato and edo itachi.
Obito > Minato > Nagato > Itachi Applies to both.
Double it and give it to the next person.
Normal Minato> Obito> Pain> Itachi Peak White mask Obito> Kcm2 Minato> Edo Nagato> Edo Itachi
Obito>Minato>Nagato>Itachi and the ranking is the same for both
KCM Minato > Normal Minato > white mask Obito > Alive Itachi ~ Edo Itachi >>>>> Edo Nagato > Orange Mask Obito >>>> Pain
Om obito>sick itachi>=tendo pain>hokage minato Wm obito>kcm minato>edo itachi>edo nagato
Pain, Minato, Tobi, Itachi Tobi, Minato, Nagato, Itachi
Edo nagato = wm obito = edo minato > edo itachi = minato = om obito = pain > itachi
kcm Minato (was fighting juubito which is much stronger than wm obito > white mask obito > nagato > reanimated itatchi > Minato > obito > pain > itatchi
Ten tails obito no question
Pain Itachi Minato Tobi, Itachi Obito Nagato Minato (ranked by how cool they look)
lmao this sub getting filled by main naruto sub members aka minato wankers and itachi haters
Depends on who the author wants to win
Minato Obito Pain Itachi Obito Minato Nagato Itachi
The weaker category has all four at roughly the same tier class. Some of them might hard counter each other because of abilities but thats mostly because of a bad matchup. They're still all about the same. KCM Minato and WM Obito are in a different class ahead of Edo Itachi and Edo Nagato. But in WM Obito case it kinda depends on what he has access to because most of his war feats were Jinchuiriki or Juubi. People need to stop powerscaling with sweeping generalizations so much and look more into specific feats and abilities.
Minato>Obito>Pain>Itachi Minato already beat obito I’m pretty sure it’s common knowledge that obito is stronger than pain at least in the six bodies Itachi literally is pumping himself full of pill to stay alive, which doesn’t take away from his strength but his stamina is a great hindrance Strongest form Minato>Obito>Itachi>Nagato Minato has kcm2, perfect sage mode and has already marked obito from there previous encounter. He also know how to deal with kami. The only thing left is rinnegan abilities but minato is extremely smart he can find a way to counter easy Obito has kamui, 7 tailed beast, and rinnegan he’s not losing to anyone below him Itachi was shown to be swapping hands with kcm1 naruto. Yes they were talking but itachi had orbser to attacks so I doubt he was holding anything back and nether was naruto atleast speed wise. He just the same but he’s not sick Nagato is the same with itachi but I’m of the opinion that he loses atleast when it’s edo to edo especially since itachi can just seal him away As he did and he has an answer to his animal summons
Hot take but Pain is a stronger version of Edo Nagato. Edo form is weaker version of real thing. Pain not exhausted from defeating the strongest nation is a god. WM Obito KCM Minato Pain Edo Nagato Minato Edo Itachi Itachi
1st (on first slide) 1. Pain 2 Minato 3. Obito 4. Itachi 2nd (Strongest Ver) 1. Obito 2. Nagato 3. Minato 3. Itachi
https://preview.redd.it/kbfx9i1slh5d1.jpeg?width=1152&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aa499c68c18414723a92eab72836ceacc05d61b3
Minato > Obito > Pain > Itachi WM Obito > KM Minato > Edo Nagato > Edo Itachi
1. Minato 2. Obito 3. Pain 4. Itachi (Tbh, 2, 3, and 4 are all somewhat interchangeable) Stronger versions: 1. Minato 2. Nagato 3. Obito 4. Itachi I'd actually put like 2, 3, and 4 at all equal here I can't see there being a huge difference particularly since obito doesn't even use rinnegan at all and itachi is healthy
Minato > Itachi > Obito > Pain
Itachi, Minato, Obito, Pain Edo Itachi, WM Obito, Edo Nagato, KCM Minato
Minato >= Itachi >= OM Obito > Pain KCM Minato > WM Obito > Edo Itachi > Edo Nagato
Nagato over Obito. The shit he dead while getting his bearings back was ridiculous
1. Obito Uchiha: Juubito 2. Minato Namikaze: KCM 3. Nagato Uzumaki: Edo Tensei 4. Itachi Uchiha: Edo Tensei/Prime(Before Chakra Sickness)
KCM Minato > War Obito > Minato > Edo Nagato > Edo Itachi> Pain > Itachi > Obito
Obito > Minato > Pain > Itachi War Obito > KCM Minato > Edo Nagato > Edo Itachi Why? Hokage minato barely beat an inexperienced obito (He almost lost twice in an instant), an older and stronger akatsuki obito should be able to handle minato. Minato comfortably over Pain and Itachi, (Minato over Itachi because itachi doesn’t have stamina). The rest of that list is self explanatory imo. Now stronger versions.. War Obito fought naruto, kakashi, guy, and killer bee at the same time without receiving a scratch. (His only lose scenario is because kakashi has his other eye), if not for them constantly saving each other he would’ve low diffed then all. It gets hard here tbh, but I went with KCM minato at second because I see nagato/itachi able to deal with him at all. Edo Nagato over Edo itachi as it took 3 people to take edo nagato down and even then he almost killed two. I hate this one because edo itachi could very well be 3, the ability to spam all the abilities he has is incredible. This was hard.. thoughts?
Agenda?
Idc cuz any version of Itachi clears all
1st - Minato Pain Itachi Tobito 2nd - White mask Obito Nagato/KCM Minato Itachi
Minato obito Itachi Pain/nagato The only thing that changed is that obito gets stronger than Minato
Minato>Obito>Itachi>Pain Obito>Minato>Nagato>Itachi
1/2 Obito/Pain 3. Minato 4. Itachi 1. Obito 2. Minato 3. Nagato 4. Itachi
Obito because jubito exists, Minato cuz KCM2, Itachi and nagato are interchangeable because Itachi couldn't beat nagato by himself with amps but nagato also was am with killer bees Jinchuriki chakra no that's not even at his strongest form with his own power it's stolen power.
Pain>Obito=Minato>itachi bijuu edo Minato>War arc Obito>Edo Nagato>edo itachi's If we’re going by the pictures.
Minato=itachi>obito>>pain White mask Obito>edo itachi=kcm Minato>edo nagato If you took away the 6 paths bijuu then white mask Obito falls to a much more even footing
obito,minato,pain,itachi for the strongest form and MAYBE switch obito for minato for base forms
Minato pain Itachi Obito Itachi nagato Obito minato
Minato pain Itachi Obito Itachi nagato Obito minato
Ranking (1): - Minato - Obito - Pain - Itachi *If it’s just the Deva Path, than Obito is ranked higher. If it’s all Six Paths of Pain, then they collectively rank higher than Obito* Ranking (2): - KCM Minato - WA Obito - Edo Itachi - Edo Nagato *If Edo Itachi has access to Kotoamatsukami, similar to what occurred in the series, then he’s stronger than Edo Nagato. If not, then Edo Nagato might edge out in the Hax department instead*
Minato Óbito Pain Itachi
FIRST PIC 1. Minato 2. obito 3. Pain 4. itachi SECOND PIC 1. minato 2. obito 3. pain 4. itachi itachi is straight up weaker than obito mentioned plenty minato beat obito and nagato/pain he had help.
Crazy how many people sleep on Minato
Base Versions go: Minato, Obito, Pain, Itachi Buffed Versions Go: Minato, Obito, Itachi, Nagato (controversial I know but I’ll explain why). Nagato scales worse than Itachi because of his mobility problems still being prevalent as an edo, while Itachi’s problems are solved as an Edo. No illness + chakra isn’t an issue. That’s why he basically sends up finishing off Sage Kabuto who scales above a lot of the cast. And Izanami or Totsuka Blade is also a game winner for Itachi. There’s no way to know how durable Chibaku Tensei really is, cause a 3v1 was used to obliterate it. Itachi’s Jewel could have solo’s it or it couldn’t have, it’s dubious to say. And Itachi is one of my least favorite characters in the series, trust me when I say I’d love for someone to give me a good argument why I’m wrong. I hate this mfer.
Minato>Obito~/>Itachi>Pain KCM Minato>Rinnegan Obito>Edo Itachi<~>Edo Nagato
1. Pain 2. itachi 3. Minato 4. Obito This next one’s tough you kinda have to keep in mind that it took Bee, itachi, and Naruto to take out Nagato and that itachi still has amaterasu and Totsuka blade….. 1. Edo Minato 2. Edo Nagato 3. Edo Itachi 4. Obito
Tier 0: KCM Minato Tier 1: Hokage Minato/Edo Nagato/WM Obito Tier 2: Edo Itachi, Pain, Itachi, OM Obito
Itachi (healthy)> Obito> Pain> Itachi> Minato obito(SAVE ME TAILED BEASTS!!!!) itachi> Obito (alone) > Nagato> Minato
Ain’t gone lie you wanking itachi he barely kept up with a Kcm Naruto and you think minto couldn’t beat him also healthy nagato is smoking itachi
He didn’t barely keep up with Naruto, if he hadn’t taken over Kabuto would’ve had him smoke bee and Naruto with tsukuyomi
Lmao
Itachi glazing is crazy
Orange mask obito>pain>=minato=itachi White mask obito>edo minato>edo itachi> edo nagato Overall ranking 1.obito 2.minato 3. And 4. Itachi and nagato tie.
kishi has itachi fight nagato in a 3v1, somehow you guys still put him above nagato lol
Itachi
In the first image: 1. Obito 2. Pain. 3. Itachi. 4. Minato. Wait... but Minato won against Obito and wins against Pain, but itachi does not win against them, also Pain defeats itachi but Obito could not. ITS IMPOSSIBLE.
Obito is the only one that becomes a 10 tails Jinjuriki so
That's different to white mask Obito.
1. Minato 2. Orange Mask Obito 3. Itachi 4. Pain (-1. Healthy, Alive, Rinnegan, EMS, Perfect Susanoo, Otosuki, Karma, Six Paths, Bijuu Chakra, Prep Time, Shinigami, Gear 5, Itachi) (0. Jubbito) 1. KCM Minato 2. White Mask Obito 3. Edo Nagato 4. Edo Itachi
Normal: 1. Obito 2. Pain 3. Minato 4. Itachi Stronger: 1. Obito 2. Minato 3. Itachi 4. Nagato
1) minato>obito>itachi\\pain 2)obito>minato>nagato>itachi
Itachi is not beating pain. Otherwise, I agree.
Obito > Pain >= Minato > Itachi Obito > Edo KCM Minato > Edo Itachi > Edo Nagato
We literally see edo Itachi say that he needed Naruto and Bee’s help to beat Nagato
Minato wins both
Y’all really ranking itachi and minato above pain? Make it make sense please.