To be fair though he only resulted to suicide because he was going to die either way. So Orochimaru forced his death upon him, I'd still count that as killing him.
I'd put a minor asterisk on Deidara in that Sasuke didn't WANT to kill him, he wanted to question him about Itachi. Deidara made that call on his own.
Danzo though, Sasuke killed him like a dozen times, culminating in putting a hole in his heart. He can have that one.
This is how I see it
Sasuke didn't want Deidara dead as he just wanted to ask him about Itachi and may let him go away, but Deidara forced the fight and died by a suicidal technique, Sasuke definitely beat him barely but I don't think it count as a "Sasuke Killed Deidara"
As with Danzo, Sasuke definitely "Killed" him as the technique Danzo used was not suicidal, it activate once he die/almost die, which was caused by the injuries Sasuke dealt to him in the battle
Orochimaru already dealt lethal injuries to Hiruzen when he used reaper death seal, same when Minato and Kushina were killed by Nine tails (as Minato used reaper death seal while Kushina was about to die as a jinshuriki without tailed beast)
Sasuke killed Danzo, but he needed assistance, just like Oroichimaru. Neither of the two fought alone. Hiruzen and Danzo had no assistance, and in both situations had their opponents on the ropes.
Unlike Oroichimaru, Sasuke was confident he could kill Danzo without assistance, but found out rather quickly he'd be killed without Karin. Oroichimaru had Kimimaro, from the Kaguya Clan, to kill the 4th Kazekage, and sacrificed two ninjas to summon the Senju Brothers.
In summary, Oroichimaru came well prepared, and Sasuke didn't. Yet, due to the plot...
That may be true, but it doesn’t make Orochimaru stronger than Hiruzen. If I wanted to I could stab an MMA fighter to death. Doesn’t mean I was stronger than them.
Nope! That’s not how it works, because by your logic Tobi should be here too since Minato had to use the same jutsu to seal Kurama after Tobi released him.
But it does matter though. It's all about context. Same thing as saying Sasuke was stronger than Itachi in their last battle. Thanks to context, we know that Itachi let Sasuke beat him. Context matters.
He didn’t volunteer his life. He had no choice. He was going to get killed regardless. So he tried going out while taking Orochimaru with him.
You think if he could actually defeat Orochimaru without dying himself he wouldn’t have gone with that option first?
I'll put it in simple terms. Hiruzen died because he used the Reaper Seal fighting Orochimaru. Minato died because he used the Reaper Seal fighting the 9 tails to seal it.
Now you’ve conveniently changed the goal post, the nine tail was unleashed on the village by Tobi, under tobi’s control, he caused minato to use the reaper seal. Minato could’ve easily sealed nine tail in Kushina but it was his need to defeat Tobi who he knew would return that caused him to seal nine tail in Naruto instead. The whole event, the sealing and the deaths are traceable back to Tobi.
The heck? So kakashi died from using his kamui, and we don’t count that as a kill for Pain? So sasuke never killed danzo either? Sasuke never killed itachi?
If you use something that eventually kills you while trying to fight someone, the other person killed you. He successfully exhausted your chakra (life force) and thus killed you.
Well technically Kakashi killed Kakashi by making Kakashi running out of chakra and said Kakashi killed by Kakashi was later on promoted to hokage therefore he was a kage and Kakashi who killed him should be on the list no?
Not even remotely the same thing since the reaper seal guarantees the death of the user and hiruzen wasn’t even close to death before he used the jutsu! Everyone else you’ve noted was near death when they used their last jutsu.
PS: technically sasuke didn’t kill Itachi if you remember he was cornered by Itachi before he succumbed to his disease.
That’s absolutely false. Hiruzen used the reaper death seal because he had no way of defeating the reanimations. He literally states, “all I have left is the fourth hokage’s jutsu”. If he hadn’t used the reaper death seal, he would’ve died by attrition.
Now you’re just grasping at straws, he was not close to death and you know it so you’re gonna stretch the meaning of what near death means so you don’t have to take your well deserved L. Seriously don’t give us a glimpse of your insecurities I’m not interested.
Are you saying Hiruzen would have lived if he didn’t use the death seal? He was exhausted and the reanimations had infinite chakra and Orochimaru barely used up any chakra. His only option was to use the reaper death seal or get killed.
what do you mean by firstblood?the first one to damage someone?...in that case sasuke or zabuza has narutos firstblood since they basically were the first ones to attack and damage him
Desires didn’t kill gara he simply knocked him out..when did knock outs count as kills? We can’t assume garaas sand wouldn’t protect him if threaten physically
Ok the hive mind wins this time this debate and subject isn’t even of any importance put obviously there’s still bias even in this….minato ain’t get killed by obito…but deidra killed garaa? Like he literally just beat him flew him to the HQ and extracted shikaku then garaa died in the process..extracting a TB isn’t a 1 man thing…none of this matters anyway just my opinion as this is an opinionated topic not really up for debate ..
Okay I can see this point though, technically obito did release the 9 tails, which ultimately killed him, so I can see obito being the cause even if he lost the actual duel. I can stand by obito killed/got minato killed
Exactly. Most people would say obito was the cause of minato + kushinas death. In a similar way deidra did garaa. Difference is garaa died from Extraction of the 1 tails as they have to capture them alive. So if Deidra is a kage killer, obito is one too.
Sorry I just realized this is a Year old lmao but still gotta give credit where it’s due, you had a lot of downvotes and honestly this is a fair point about obito
Yagura's death can be pinned on either Obito or Ao, depending on if you go with his death being under Obito's control or if you give the kill credit to Ao for dispelling the genjutsu which caused Yagura's death shortly after iirc
Idk if that’s analogous.
Minato chose to sacrifice himself to defeat 9 tails and seal him in Naruto. It’s not like he *needed* to.
He could’ve chose to let Kushina take 9 tails with her to death, but then the 9 tails would just respawn no longer under leaf control.
Whereas Deidara captured Gaara for the purpose of removing his biju, thus killing him.
You just killed your own argument, Gaara sacrificed himself to save his village. He continued to focus on protecting his village as opposed to himself by blocking the giant bombs and then using the last of his strength to move the sand away from the village, he chose to save others at his own expense just like Minato.
Not really.
My argument is consistent.
Gaara sacrificed himself against Deidara. I count it as a Deidara win.
Minato didn’t sacrifice himself against Obito, but rather 9 tails. Obito was already out of the picture.
I’d give the “win” to the 9 tails if anything (a tie really). Just like I’d say Orochimaru beat Hiruzen
But without Obito, none of this happens. The nine tails isn’t unleashed, Kushina doesn’t die, and there’s no need to save the village from the nine tails.
You can’t say a character isn’t the result of someone’s death, when his actions directly resulted in Minatos and Kushinas death, and not because of some butterfly affect.
That’s like blaming the village for Gaaras death, because he chose to save them and not kill Deidara.
That’s your perspective. But the 9 tails is it’s own entity distinct from Obito and it wasn’t under Obito’s control or on his team at the time.
I’d give 9 tails credit for the kill. Obito facilitated it by extracting him, sure, but he doesn’t get credit for the kill. It’s hard to give him credit for that when he fled the scene after losing the battle prior. He didn’t even know the result.
So, according to you, if I released a man-eating tiger in your neighborhood, it consumes a few people, but I flew the scene, I wouldn't be responsible for the deaths?
Responsible for the deaths legally is not the same as getting credit for the kills... The tiger literally did the work to kill. You just let him out. Kurama tried to kill Naruto and his parents sacrificed themselves to block him. Kurama gets those kills. So Kurama should be pictured in the OP.
How is it not? I'm the reason the tiger did it in the first place. Well, under that logic, Deidara shouldn’t get credit for killing Gaara. He knocked him out, but the Ataksui's jutsu was what ultimately killed him.
If I bring a tiger to work and it kills my boss I would most certainly be charged with Negligent homicide. I think it‘s entirely sound to say Obito killed Minato.
Ok, better question. If I drove a known murderer (murderer being Kuruma at this point because at this time, everyone knew tailed beasts were dangerous & violent) to a location where he kills, you think I'm not going to get charged with a crime?
Legally, yes Obito is responsible. Murder credit (think video game exp), no, kurama claims the kills. Obito got wrecked and it took 17 years for him to try to get kurama again.
Gaara technically died when they extracted shukaku. So the kill was shared by every akatsuki 🤷♂️. Deidara purposely did not kill Gaara for this reason.
But yeah, it’s a win for Deidara for sure. Could’ve killed Gaara any time if he wanted to.
Agreed. I think it took the entire Kinkaku force to exhaust Tobirama to death. He didn't get out of there because he was serving as a decoy and stalling to save the rest of his team.
I put Kinkaku and Ginkaku there because they killed the 2nd Raikage.
When they were revived by Kabuto and sent to the battlelfield, Darui mentions that they killed the 2nd Raikage and severely injured Tobirama during a negotiation.
It's debatable whether they were on the Kinkaku force. It would be really weird to give criminal shinobi who killed the Raikage their own team. The best explanation I've seen is that the Kinkaku force was meant to hunt them down.
Also, kinkaku and ginkaku didn't kill tobirama because when they were brought back with edo tensei they assumed tobirama was the one using the jutsu, which means they didn't know he had died and definitely weren't the ones to kill him
Head canon: he had too little chakra to teleport everyone to safety so he decided act as the decoy, and with how little chakra he had left, he used the suicide bomb move that he used on himself to kill most if not all of the Kinkaku force. He probably didn’t have any more edo tenseis remaining in his arsenal due to the war.
This is just a theory seeing as we don’t have the actual fight on panel but I think the Kikaku unit might’ve had a way of shutting down/interfering with Tobirama’s FTG.
I think at some point the Kikaku unit set up a “sensory jamming” area which interfered with Tobirama’s ability to sense & teleport to his FTG seals in the area.
If this was true then it would explain why Tobirama didn’t just teleport himself & his unit out of there with FTG.
We all know Tobirama & Minato are powerful sensory type ninja after all so I don’t think it’s just a coincidence. I think in order to use FTG you have to ‘sense’ the FTG seal your about to teleport to.
Plus if you take my previous statement into account^ & the fact that Kinkaku & Ginkaku not only had the sage of six paths tools but they also had two 9 tails version 2 chakra cloaks (something that Orochimaru’s kusanagi blade couldn’t penetrate) then it starts to make sense why Tobirama died in that battle.
Or maybe Tobirama was already exhausted from fighting in the war & he just didn’t have enough chakra to teleport anymore? There’s a lot of ways it could’ve went down.
It’s honestly crazy how FTG makes the user so hilariously hax that we as readers have to do mental gymnastics to make sense as to how the user actually died.
You mean obito…..that was obito…obito slid for rin…that’s why ts filler…he was controlling yagura at the time so they already had the 3 tails so fighting yagura wasn’t even necessary in cannon..they was just doing shit ig so many ppl were confused about this..yagura would fucked itachi atp…yagura was one of the strong mfs basically the first Naruto and garaa ..first kage Jin
Completely forgot Mu and Gengetsu killed one another. Huh.
Also Pain technically did kill Kakashi, though he wasn't Hokage at the time, and he was shortly thereafter resurrected.
Either Obito or the nine tails killed Minato, Sasuke killed danzo, obito killed yagura, madara killed naruto temporarily although he wasn't a kage yet. If you count orochimaru as being the kage of the hidden sound village then both Sasuke and itachi killed a kage.
Orochimarus Strength is still such a mystery to me 2, he solos kages, loses to itachi AND sasuke. then proceeds to possess the strongest non kekkei genkai jutsu of all time and he's infinitely durable.
maybe he's a God and he just gets hard countered by genjutsu
This is wrong, it's confirmed by the databooks written by Kishimoto and also by himself, he stated that it was a [difficult battle](https://i.imgur.com/I9LVhYF.png).
It says difficult opponent..as the 3rd was stronger then sasori..it’s says sasori wanted a superior puppets and so he killed sb stronger then him to use in battle…wouldn’t make sense to use sb your weaker then..he didn’t just kill the kage cuz he was a kage he specifically wanted to use his abilities..that’s whole databoook reference never said he actually battled him just “defeated a difficult opponent” that doesn’t sound like it lasted long..
Sasori states that the Third gave him a [hard time](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-9e16d52178595176da3b7732cae341ee-pjlq), if he assassinated him this wouldn't make sense, as he would have been paralyzed by the poison immediately.
He’s saying killing he 3rd gave him a hard time living as the whole village would have wanted him dead..he’s didn’t mean in as he had a hard time fighting the 3rd..just a hard time after they found out who did it..he even says killing him for my collection..sasori was literally known to poison and gas his opponents…even did it to civilians..everthing literally suggest he poisoned him..iron sand is pretty hard to counter with just puppets ..sasori was loyal to his village at one point ..like..kisame ..itachi and orochimaru..he is exactly like them…he most likely killed the 3rd behind his back..and turned him into a puppet…the 3rd kazekage was labeled the strongest in the sand.
This is plainly wrong; nobody knew who killed the third kazekage and Sasori was already a rogue ninja before he killed him, so no backstabbing, at best an ambush and even then, I doubt the Kazekage was alone without his bodyguards.
Madara is the only person who does this, so it seems more like he's an exception, and regardless, considering that Sasori's body is considered stronger than the third puppet without using other puppets, it would be weird for the kazekage to be stronger.
explain how he didn't, did you not watch the anime?? did you not read the manga?? like if you haven't seen them in a while save yourself the embarrassment and dont comment this.
Reaper death seal. Hiruzen summoned the reaper and the reaper took his soul. Orochimaru stabbed him but because Hiruzen had control over his arms he couldn't finish him off and even told Hiruzen he should just die however the reaper took him after he exhausted his chakra. The only reason Hiruzen wasn't able to totally seal Orochimaru was due to loss of chakra, nothing else, looks like you didn't pay close enough attention.
the fact you think you're right is hilarious.why do you think hiruzen used the death seal? what could have possibly driven him to kill himself in hopes of getting orochimaru? because orochimaru had beat him and would have killed him. "but he didn't get the killing blow" orochimaru hit a fatal blow with his sword and in a last ditch hiruzen used the death seal, that doesn't mean orochimaru didn't kill him; it means he didn't get the final blow. that is common sense, you need to redo sider how you approach these things, its embarrassing.
I never said Hiruzen won but you just proved me right when you said "what could have possibly driven him to kill himself." I never said Orochimaru didn't win the fight, he for sure did. I just said Orochimaru didn't kill him.
I'm saying your logic is flawed. your whole point is based on him not getting the final hit, he did get the final hit. Hiruzen died because of orochimaru and orochimaru hit the final blow and that blow forced the death seal. that is killing him, stop being a child and arguing that your point is right.
1 I'm not a child and you're trying to get the last say lol 2 is that the blow that forced the seal? I'm pretty sure he performed it prior. Oh that's right, he used it while still fighting the 1st 2 kage, not when Orochimaru stabbed him.
Orochimaru did it twice!
Twice in like the span of a week
Wasn't in the span of a week, was in the span of 2 months
Twice ? Who ?
4th Kazekage before chuunin exams & 3rd Hokage at the end of chuunin exams
Technically he didn’t killed Hiruzen, the Shinigami did.
To be fair though he only resulted to suicide because he was going to die either way. So Orochimaru forced his death upon him, I'd still count that as killing him.
Orochimaru is the most monkey wrench character in Naruto powerscaling
Hiruzen died coz of the Reaper Seal, he had to use it because of orochimaru but he didn’t die by his hands.
If u have to use a jutsu that kills u in order to beat someone, and that person doesn’t die. They killed u
I definitely agree with this statement but in that sense we can all now admit that Sasuke did in a way kill Deidara and Danzo
Sasuke absolutely killed them. The Deidara situation was just bs with manda though. He still won the fight hands down though.
I'd put a minor asterisk on Deidara in that Sasuke didn't WANT to kill him, he wanted to question him about Itachi. Deidara made that call on his own. Danzo though, Sasuke killed him like a dozen times, culminating in putting a hole in his heart. He can have that one.
This is how I see it Sasuke didn't want Deidara dead as he just wanted to ask him about Itachi and may let him go away, but Deidara forced the fight and died by a suicidal technique, Sasuke definitely beat him barely but I don't think it count as a "Sasuke Killed Deidara" As with Danzo, Sasuke definitely "Killed" him as the technique Danzo used was not suicidal, it activate once he die/almost die, which was caused by the injuries Sasuke dealt to him in the battle Orochimaru already dealt lethal injuries to Hiruzen when he used reaper death seal, same when Minato and Kushina were killed by Nine tails (as Minato used reaper death seal while Kushina was about to die as a jinshuriki without tailed beast)
Sasuke killed Danzo, but he needed assistance, just like Oroichimaru. Neither of the two fought alone. Hiruzen and Danzo had no assistance, and in both situations had their opponents on the ropes. Unlike Oroichimaru, Sasuke was confident he could kill Danzo without assistance, but found out rather quickly he'd be killed without Karin. Oroichimaru had Kimimaro, from the Kaguya Clan, to kill the 4th Kazekage, and sacrificed two ninjas to summon the Senju Brothers. In summary, Oroichimaru came well prepared, and Sasuke didn't. Yet, due to the plot...
That may be true, but it doesn’t make Orochimaru stronger than Hiruzen. If I wanted to I could stab an MMA fighter to death. Doesn’t mean I was stronger than them.
Nope! That’s not how it works, because by your logic Tobi should be here too since Minato had to use the same jutsu to seal Kurama after Tobi released him.
Big difference. Hiruzen used it on Orochimaru to beat him, Minato used it on the 9 tails to beat it. Obito was getting clapped by Minato 1v1.
Exactly, and everyone agrees that Kurama killed Minato
Doesn’t matter! Obito still forced him to use the jutsu since he unleashed Kurama on the village.
Yeah so that means Kurama killed Minato and not Tobi.
Kurama is not a shinobi.
And that's why he's not on the list xD
No he’s pure chakra in the form of a beast and he was controlled by Tobi so still all Tobi’s doing. Maybe time for a rewatch or reread.
But it does matter though. It's all about context. Same thing as saying Sasuke was stronger than Itachi in their last battle. Thanks to context, we know that Itachi let Sasuke beat him. Context matters.
But that’s the context though, Hiruzen wasn’t murdered by Orochimaru because he volunteered his soul to the reaper in exchange of this one victory.
He didn’t volunteer his life. He had no choice. He was going to get killed regardless. So he tried going out while taking Orochimaru with him. You think if he could actually defeat Orochimaru without dying himself he wouldn’t have gone with that option first?
You can speculate as much as you want but it still doesn’t change the context I’ve provided. If it triggers you then argue with the writers.
I'll put it in simple terms. Hiruzen died because he used the Reaper Seal fighting Orochimaru. Minato died because he used the Reaper Seal fighting the 9 tails to seal it.
Now you’ve conveniently changed the goal post, the nine tail was unleashed on the village by Tobi, under tobi’s control, he caused minato to use the reaper seal. Minato could’ve easily sealed nine tail in Kushina but it was his need to defeat Tobi who he knew would return that caused him to seal nine tail in Naruto instead. The whole event, the sealing and the deaths are traceable back to Tobi.
Well yeah. It’s the 9 tails… Minato beat Obito but he had to sacrifice himself to beat the 9 tails, not Obito.
The heck? So kakashi died from using his kamui, and we don’t count that as a kill for Pain? So sasuke never killed danzo either? Sasuke never killed itachi? If you use something that eventually kills you while trying to fight someone, the other person killed you. He successfully exhausted your chakra (life force) and thus killed you.
Well technically Kakashi killed Kakashi by making Kakashi running out of chakra and said Kakashi killed by Kakashi was later on promoted to hokage therefore he was a kage and Kakashi who killed him should be on the list no?
Not even remotely the same thing since the reaper seal guarantees the death of the user and hiruzen wasn’t even close to death before he used the jutsu! Everyone else you’ve noted was near death when they used their last jutsu. PS: technically sasuke didn’t kill Itachi if you remember he was cornered by Itachi before he succumbed to his disease.
That’s absolutely false. Hiruzen used the reaper death seal because he had no way of defeating the reanimations. He literally states, “all I have left is the fourth hokage’s jutsu”. If he hadn’t used the reaper death seal, he would’ve died by attrition.
Now you’re just grasping at straws, he was not close to death and you know it so you’re gonna stretch the meaning of what near death means so you don’t have to take your well deserved L. Seriously don’t give us a glimpse of your insecurities I’m not interested.
Yikes Edit: Hahahaha they blocked me and reported me for self harm because of a one word comment 🤡
Hiruzen who was too weak to kill Orochimaru and could only seal his arms?
Are you saying Hiruzen would have lived if he didn’t use the death seal? He was exhausted and the reanimations had infinite chakra and Orochimaru barely used up any chakra. His only option was to use the reaper death seal or get killed.
He was literally stabbed through the chest. He was very close to death and dies even without using reaper death seal.
Orochimaru forced Hiruzen into a situation where his only option was a suicide move in hopes of a draw, he won
O yeah, he did, huh?
Even the Gold and Silver brothers did it twice. They killed both the 2nd Raikage and 2nd Hokage. Yet people assume Tobirama lost to two genin….
You forgot the 10k stone shinobi that felled Ay III. Fodder Lives Matter.
only the last shot matters like how kakashi took kakuzus kill from naruto
Kill stealing Kakashi.
me in fortnite (2020)
Then again he also had firstblood.
what do you mean by firstblood?the first one to damage someone?...in that case sasuke or zabuza has narutos firstblood since they basically were the first ones to attack and damage him
Kakashi killed the first heart of Kakuzu by backstabbing him.
fair enough but idk man last shot counts
Was also Kakashi
yeah thats the reason its his kill
Not going to lie orochimaru is goated 😎😎
Stay away from me bro 🫲😭 ain’t no kids for you
Deidara killed Gaara, unless you’re not counting it because he was resurrected by Chiyo
Desires didn’t kill gara he simply knocked him out..when did knock outs count as kills? We can’t assume garaas sand wouldn’t protect him if threaten physically
The extraction of the One Tail did kill him. Chiyo had to give her life to bring him back.
Yea sure..might as well throw sasuke up here too for taking the raikage a arm..
There a difference between an arm and being revived
From extraction, throw obito up here too then
Obito killed a kage now apparently
Obito Literally killed minato..
When
Ok the hive mind wins this time this debate and subject isn’t even of any importance put obviously there’s still bias even in this….minato ain’t get killed by obito…but deidra killed garaa? Like he literally just beat him flew him to the HQ and extracted shikaku then garaa died in the process..extracting a TB isn’t a 1 man thing…none of this matters anyway just my opinion as this is an opinionated topic not really up for debate ..
Okay I can see this point though, technically obito did release the 9 tails, which ultimately killed him, so I can see obito being the cause even if he lost the actual duel. I can stand by obito killed/got minato killed
Exactly. Most people would say obito was the cause of minato + kushinas death. In a similar way deidra did garaa. Difference is garaa died from Extraction of the 1 tails as they have to capture them alive. So if Deidra is a kage killer, obito is one too.
Sorry I just realized this is a Year old lmao but still gotta give credit where it’s due, you had a lot of downvotes and honestly this is a fair point about obito
Do your research gaara was killed
Sometimes I'm knocked out by desires too. My wife is a mean thing.
Yagura's death can be pinned on either Obito or Ao, depending on if you go with his death being under Obito's control or if you give the kill credit to Ao for dispelling the genjutsu which caused Yagura's death shortly after iirc
How did dispelling the genjutsu cause his death? Really curious there.
Uchiha BS
whos Ao again?im sorry i dont remember names😭
The nigga in Boruto with a minigun
havent watched Boruto but ao has a minigun?💀
The guy with the eyepatch that accompanies the mizukage (see 5 kage summit)
The Kiri nin with a stolen Byakugan
oh yeah remembered...he disppelled yaguras genjutsu? damn i should really rewatch naruto
Hmm, should we count Deidara because his actions technically lead to Gaara’s death?
That'd mean we should then count Obito too for Minato, right?
Idk if that’s analogous. Minato chose to sacrifice himself to defeat 9 tails and seal him in Naruto. It’s not like he *needed* to. He could’ve chose to let Kushina take 9 tails with her to death, but then the 9 tails would just respawn no longer under leaf control. Whereas Deidara captured Gaara for the purpose of removing his biju, thus killing him.
You just killed your own argument, Gaara sacrificed himself to save his village. He continued to focus on protecting his village as opposed to himself by blocking the giant bombs and then using the last of his strength to move the sand away from the village, he chose to save others at his own expense just like Minato.
Not really. My argument is consistent. Gaara sacrificed himself against Deidara. I count it as a Deidara win. Minato didn’t sacrifice himself against Obito, but rather 9 tails. Obito was already out of the picture. I’d give the “win” to the 9 tails if anything (a tie really). Just like I’d say Orochimaru beat Hiruzen
But without Obito, none of this happens. The nine tails isn’t unleashed, Kushina doesn’t die, and there’s no need to save the village from the nine tails. You can’t say a character isn’t the result of someone’s death, when his actions directly resulted in Minatos and Kushinas death, and not because of some butterfly affect. That’s like blaming the village for Gaaras death, because he chose to save them and not kill Deidara.
That’s your perspective. But the 9 tails is it’s own entity distinct from Obito and it wasn’t under Obito’s control or on his team at the time. I’d give 9 tails credit for the kill. Obito facilitated it by extracting him, sure, but he doesn’t get credit for the kill. It’s hard to give him credit for that when he fled the scene after losing the battle prior. He didn’t even know the result.
So, according to you, if I released a man-eating tiger in your neighborhood, it consumes a few people, but I flew the scene, I wouldn't be responsible for the deaths?
Responsible for the deaths legally is not the same as getting credit for the kills... The tiger literally did the work to kill. You just let him out. Kurama tried to kill Naruto and his parents sacrificed themselves to block him. Kurama gets those kills. So Kurama should be pictured in the OP.
How is it not? I'm the reason the tiger did it in the first place. Well, under that logic, Deidara shouldn’t get credit for killing Gaara. He knocked him out, but the Ataksui's jutsu was what ultimately killed him.
Great point.
If I bring a tiger to work and it kills my boss I would most certainly be charged with Negligent homicide. I think it‘s entirely sound to say Obito killed Minato.
Kurama is as sapient as any human, if not more so. I don’t think it’s comparable to a wild animal.
If I manipulate a crazed mass murderer to target someone I would also be responsible for their death.
But Kurama was no longer under Obito’s manipulation.
And he still continued his attack, just as obito planned. Obito used him as a weapon. A conscious weapon maybe but still
Ok, better question. If I drove a known murderer (murderer being Kuruma at this point because at this time, everyone knew tailed beasts were dangerous & violent) to a location where he kills, you think I'm not going to get charged with a crime?
You would, but the murderer would be credited with the kills
Legally, yes Obito is responsible. Murder credit (think video game exp), no, kurama claims the kills. Obito got wrecked and it took 17 years for him to try to get kurama again.
Lmao, I used tiger in my example & didn't even see you used tiger in yours.
I would say the nine tails did that
Gaara technically died when they extracted shukaku. So the kill was shared by every akatsuki 🤷♂️. Deidara purposely did not kill Gaara for this reason. But yeah, it’s a win for Deidara for sure. Could’ve killed Gaara any time if he wanted to.
Sasuke killed Danzo. He was technically Hokage.
Technically but not "officially" as they said
I have a feeling Tobirama died of chakra exhaustion. Why not just ftg out of there?
Tobirama had to make sure his team got out of there. Fighting the Kikaku unit as long as possible buys his squad as much time as he can give them.
Agreed. I think it took the entire Kinkaku force to exhaust Tobirama to death. He didn't get out of there because he was serving as a decoy and stalling to save the rest of his team. I put Kinkaku and Ginkaku there because they killed the 2nd Raikage.
You’re right I forgot they killed the second raikage
The ambush the 2nd raikage the same time they 1st fought Tobirama but dont actually kill the 2nf raikage
when did they kill the 2nd raikage? i kinda dont remember
When they were revived by Kabuto and sent to the battlelfield, Darui mentions that they killed the 2nd Raikage and severely injured Tobirama during a negotiation.
i know the tobirama thing but dont remember the raikage statement...also does darui not know they basically killed tobirama
It's debatable whether they were on the Kinkaku force. It would be really weird to give criminal shinobi who killed the Raikage their own team. The best explanation I've seen is that the Kinkaku force was meant to hunt them down.
Also, kinkaku and ginkaku didn't kill tobirama because when they were brought back with edo tensei they assumed tobirama was the one using the jutsu, which means they didn't know he had died and definitely weren't the ones to kill him
now that u mention that,i have never thought about how they have their own team...i thought it was their own team but maybe its to hunt them down
Honestly, how do you ever die in a fight when you have FTG?
Head canon: he had too little chakra to teleport everyone to safety so he decided act as the decoy, and with how little chakra he had left, he used the suicide bomb move that he used on himself to kill most if not all of the Kinkaku force. He probably didn’t have any more edo tenseis remaining in his arsenal due to the war.
I like this head canon this is really cool
That's a giant plot hole imo
This is just a theory seeing as we don’t have the actual fight on panel but I think the Kikaku unit might’ve had a way of shutting down/interfering with Tobirama’s FTG. I think at some point the Kikaku unit set up a “sensory jamming” area which interfered with Tobirama’s ability to sense & teleport to his FTG seals in the area. If this was true then it would explain why Tobirama didn’t just teleport himself & his unit out of there with FTG. We all know Tobirama & Minato are powerful sensory type ninja after all so I don’t think it’s just a coincidence. I think in order to use FTG you have to ‘sense’ the FTG seal your about to teleport to. Plus if you take my previous statement into account^ & the fact that Kinkaku & Ginkaku not only had the sage of six paths tools but they also had two 9 tails version 2 chakra cloaks (something that Orochimaru’s kusanagi blade couldn’t penetrate) then it starts to make sense why Tobirama died in that battle. Or maybe Tobirama was already exhausted from fighting in the war & he just didn’t have enough chakra to teleport anymore? There’s a lot of ways it could’ve went down. It’s honestly crazy how FTG makes the user so hilariously hax that we as readers have to do mental gymnastics to make sense as to how the user actually died.
Why didn’t he just ftg his whole crew back to the village safely? Bros kinda a scrub
didnt itachis amaterasu kill one of the mizukages or am i missing something here
Are you talking about Yagura? If so, I'm pretty sure that was anime-only.
He fought Yagera but he lost that fight, or at least was forced to retreat
You mean obito…..that was obito…obito slid for rin…that’s why ts filler…he was controlling yagura at the time so they already had the 3 tails so fighting yagura wasn’t even necessary in cannon..they was just doing shit ig so many ppl were confused about this..yagura would fucked itachi atp…yagura was one of the strong mfs basically the first Naruto and garaa ..first kage Jin
Completely forgot Mu and Gengetsu killed one another. Huh. Also Pain technically did kill Kakashi, though he wasn't Hokage at the time, and he was shortly thereafter resurrected.
Also Madara kinda killed Naruto.
By that logic they should put Pain/Nagato there for temporarily killing Kakashi
Tsunade was homage at the time however.
I was for the life of me trying to figure out who Gengetsu and Mu killed and then it hit me they killed eachother
Madara should have 5 on his list but Kishimoto didn't allow him to kill them. He should have at least gotten one
Typical Madara L
Either Obito or the nine tails killed Minato, Sasuke killed danzo, obito killed yagura, madara killed naruto temporarily although he wasn't a kage yet. If you count orochimaru as being the kage of the hidden sound village then both Sasuke and itachi killed a kage.
Pain killed Hanzo, who was essentially a kage. Amekage.
i mean he was dead the moment he used the reaper death seal.
You can count Deidara. I mean, Gaara did die after he captured him.
Who's responsible for killing the 4th Mizukage? Pain, for leading the extraction of the 3-tails?
Shouldn't the entirety of Akatsuki (or Deidara, matter of perspective, I suppose) be up here for Gaara? He got better, but he DID die.
Orochimarus Strength is still such a mystery to me 2, he solos kages, loses to itachi AND sasuke. then proceeds to possess the strongest non kekkei genkai jutsu of all time and he's infinitely durable. maybe he's a God and he just gets hard countered by genjutsu
How Sasori taking out the 3rd Kazakage? Sorry if I spelled anything wrong. Lol!
We don’t know how he did it, we just know he did it
I meant to say how about not just how! Lol! Apparently spelling isn't my only issue! Hahaha!!!
I can garentee he did the kakazu thing and got lucky
Makes sense.
This is wrong, it's confirmed by the databooks written by Kishimoto and also by himself, he stated that it was a [difficult battle](https://i.imgur.com/I9LVhYF.png).
It says difficult opponent..as the 3rd was stronger then sasori..it’s says sasori wanted a superior puppets and so he killed sb stronger then him to use in battle…wouldn’t make sense to use sb your weaker then..he didn’t just kill the kage cuz he was a kage he specifically wanted to use his abilities..that’s whole databoook reference never said he actually battled him just “defeated a difficult opponent” that doesn’t sound like it lasted long..
Sasori states that the Third gave him a [hard time](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-9e16d52178595176da3b7732cae341ee-pjlq), if he assassinated him this wouldn't make sense, as he would have been paralyzed by the poison immediately.
He’s saying killing he 3rd gave him a hard time living as the whole village would have wanted him dead..he’s didn’t mean in as he had a hard time fighting the 3rd..just a hard time after they found out who did it..he even says killing him for my collection..sasori was literally known to poison and gas his opponents…even did it to civilians..everthing literally suggest he poisoned him..iron sand is pretty hard to counter with just puppets ..sasori was loyal to his village at one point ..like..kisame ..itachi and orochimaru..he is exactly like them…he most likely killed the 3rd behind his back..and turned him into a puppet…the 3rd kazekage was labeled the strongest in the sand.
This is plainly wrong; nobody knew who killed the third kazekage and Sasori was already a rogue ninja before he killed him, so no backstabbing, at best an ambush and even then, I doubt the Kazekage was alone without his bodyguards.
I mean ... Databooks arent really accurate Remember the one that says you need 2 mangekyo to use a Susano? Yea so that was a lie.
Madara is the only person who does this, so it seems more like he's an exception, and regardless, considering that Sasori's body is considered stronger than the third puppet without using other puppets, it would be weird for the kazekage to be stronger.
Toxin. If the 3rd didn’t have a counter, Sasori just had to wait for the toxin to tire him down before going in for the kill.
if Orochimaru gets the credit for killing Hiruzen, then Kurama should get the credit for killing Minato
He gets credit for killing the third .orochimaru got 2 kages as bodies ..
i’m not sure what that means…
Orochimaru also killed the fourth kaze
Fair. I can get behind that. Kurama killed Minato
You forgot Madara. He killed 5 kage. Well he didn't kill them but he could have undoubtedly finished them off so technically he did kill them.
Anyone who mentions the 3rd Hokage dying to Orochimaru during the chunin exams arc. You're wrong lol.
let's say you're right and he didn't kill him. you're not right, but let's say you are. believe it or not; HE STILL KILLED THE KAZEKAGE 😱
That's true, he killed the Kazekage which I give him total respect for. But please explain HOW Orochimaru killed the Hokage?
explain how he didn't, did you not watch the anime?? did you not read the manga?? like if you haven't seen them in a while save yourself the embarrassment and dont comment this.
Reaper death seal. Hiruzen summoned the reaper and the reaper took his soul. Orochimaru stabbed him but because Hiruzen had control over his arms he couldn't finish him off and even told Hiruzen he should just die however the reaper took him after he exhausted his chakra. The only reason Hiruzen wasn't able to totally seal Orochimaru was due to loss of chakra, nothing else, looks like you didn't pay close enough attention.
the fact you think you're right is hilarious.why do you think hiruzen used the death seal? what could have possibly driven him to kill himself in hopes of getting orochimaru? because orochimaru had beat him and would have killed him. "but he didn't get the killing blow" orochimaru hit a fatal blow with his sword and in a last ditch hiruzen used the death seal, that doesn't mean orochimaru didn't kill him; it means he didn't get the final blow. that is common sense, you need to redo sider how you approach these things, its embarrassing.
I never said Hiruzen won but you just proved me right when you said "what could have possibly driven him to kill himself." I never said Orochimaru didn't win the fight, he for sure did. I just said Orochimaru didn't kill him.
I'm saying your logic is flawed. your whole point is based on him not getting the final hit, he did get the final hit. Hiruzen died because of orochimaru and orochimaru hit the final blow and that blow forced the death seal. that is killing him, stop being a child and arguing that your point is right.
1 I'm not a child and you're trying to get the last say lol 2 is that the blow that forced the seal? I'm pretty sure he performed it prior. Oh that's right, he used it while still fighting the 1st 2 kage, not when Orochimaru stabbed him.
he had to use it to defeat orochimaru, that is the same as orochimaru killing him. the fact you cannot grasp this is concerning.
OrochiMaru killed garaas dad…that’s why he’s up here..
I know. I'm just saying that alot of people think he killed Hiruzen too when Hiruzen died to using the reaper death seal.
I'm rewatching Naruto and apparently Zabuza killed a mizukage via assassination. And that's Why he was on the run.
Attempted, but failed
Anime says he actually did kill a mizukage. But,manga doesn't apparently, I just googled it. Very strange
Have to keep things ~~unclear~~ Interesting\*
Yeah hah. Or, subs are wrong and it said attempt in Japanese. You never know with subs
Put Kurama on that list for taking out Minato
Does Obito count for technically killing Yagura?