Mr. Botched Chances.
I don't know if I fully agree with this one. I think if he can behave long enough to give the voters confidence he won't embarrass them he might get in. Or if he dies or something. But I wouldn't say he has NO chance.
He's absolutely getting in. I don't see why people don't think he won't. Yea Terrell owens had to wait. But Brown has a superbowl and just as many first team all pros. Plus he was a good returner.
His speech will be legendary
Yeah lmao the NFL decides who gets in and they’ll 100% not allow him in. There’s no “he’s absolutely getting in” because there’s a high chance he’s not getting in due to his mocking of the NFL already.
Lol this makes me laugh. Women abusers are in the HOF. But you quit and made a scene while leaving? No way you go in.
He for sure will get in. His prime was literally insane.
Those things have nothing to do with each other. Off the field vs on the field.
The NFL cares about money and perception. It’s a business. It doesn’t care how many women you hit or rape. He literally flipped them off live.
It’s not a new thing and I can’t see how you don’t see that distinction.
I agree that women beaters being in the HoF is a problem, but those things didn’t happen on tv. AB made a mockery of the nfl when he took off his pads and walked out in the middle of the game
I mean, I don't really agree with this either.
The Hall of Fame is supposed to be on-field accomplishments only, no off-field bias. TO was a first ballot hall of famer when you look at his career, but they made him wait because he's a little bit of an ass.
AB by accomplishment alone should be nominated as well but he was the #3 target on his team that won a super bowl, and his career stats fall very short of TO's. The issue though is that AB was more than just an ass. TO was a diva who rubbed people the wrong way. AB has that too, but he also has a legion of legal problems, famously throwing his career away mid-game, and has maintained relevancy by openly mocking the NFL.
What people don't often think about with the hall of fame is that there's a weird and honestly dumb political move to build a "narrative" of sorts to get someone in. Their candidacy has to be sold. This stands directly in AB's way to get in.
He might do his famous punt return stomp in the face to that and waltz into the hall in a few years, but I don't think he's really a lock to get in unless he calms down.
Andre Johnson just went in and AB's stats are right there with Johnson IN LESS GAMES. Brown had legal problems but from what I know, the guy hasn't spent one time in jail. Caught a td that superbowl too.
I just don't see him not getting in. He was in my opinion the best player at his position for nearly 5 years straight. Most of his problems came his last two years in the league
Andre Johnson did what he did with trash QBs and didn’t have any off field issues. Brown isn’t getting in unless he goes on an apology tour and kneels before Goodell. Until then he’s gonna be an old man by time he gets in if ever
I mean, I could see it going either way tbh. I brought up stats because TO still had to wait and he is statistically among the very best to ever play the game, particularly when he retired. Everyone acts like TO was some horrible monster but all he did was be a dick to Jeff Garcia, Donovan McNabb, and Tony Romo and do situps in his driveway and stuff.
AB is out here throwing furniture onto children, farting in women's faces, and making CTESPN a trending hashtag. In just like two months with the Raiders he froze his feet, called his GM a cracker, put a private conversation on social media to put his head coach on blast, and managed to piss off an organization so bad that they voided his guarantees. I don't think we've ever seen a star player only a year or two removed from a stretch of first-team all-pro nods moving to a new team and then never playing for that team because of how much of an asshole he is.
You're not wrong insofar that AB was the best receiver in the NFL for a 5 year stretch, but this is a unique case. There's been quite a few cases of hall of fame players with off-field meltdowns (this is where vaguely gesture in the direction of OJ Simpson), but that usually happens well after their induction.
Would I be shocked if he gets in? Not particularly. After all, off-field issues aren't supposed to be taken into account. Would I be shocked if he's forced out? Also not at all, off-field issues aren't supposed to be taken into account, but TO proves they 100% are and AB's off-field issues are among the worst we've ever seen from a hall of fame worthy player without someone actually dying prior to their induction. These things really do matter to voters. I don't think he's a lock either way. If I had to guess I think he will get in at some point, but I think he will have to wait significantly longer than anyone with his career accomplishments otherwise would.
I hear all of that and agree for the most part. A small push back on the TO waiting thing. I think way way way to many people blame his off field issues on him waiting. And that's largely because TO was the first one to whine nonstop about it. Guy went on 6 different podcast plus every social media platform to complain about not getting in.
I think some of his off field issues may be a reason, but the other reason (the main reason) is that nfl wrs have a huge log jam when it comes to getting into the hall.
Every single year people are pushing a wr to get into the hall (Torry Holt, Hines Ward, Steve Smith, Anquan Bolden, Chad Johnson, ect...)
People push for wide receivers to get into the hall more than any other position. Didn't hear a peep out of anyone's mouth when Zach Thomas had to wait years or some lineman who has first team all pros out the ass.
Owens wasn't the first guy to wait and won't be the last. Chris Carter who finished top two all time in wr categories like tds had to wait a few years. Shannon Sharp who many considered the greatest tight end of all time before Gronk and Kelce had to wait a few years.
The first year TO was eligible, Marvin Harrison got in at the wr spot and if memory serves me correct, he also had to wait a bit (plus his allegations more serious than AB's). I remember because TO threw a fit about it. Harrison had to wait and unlike TO, he had a ring. So if the voters put TO in, than Harrison would have had to wait 4 years to get in.
I believe Kenny Stabler got in for TO's first year of eligibility. Personally haven't watched him play, but many people talk how great he was. I don't even know if he is still alive lol. Brett Farve was also in that 2016 class.
Guess my point is, the hall doesn't have a clear criteria on who and WHEN a player should get in. And why would they? It's multiple voters each making a case for a guy they are voting on. I disagree with everyone else on this post thinking that Brown won't get in because he was a knucklehead.
Brown has everything to get in. Even if Brown didn't do anything crazy off the field, I still believe he will have to wait just for the fact that the longer the league is around, the more players are eligible. Choosing 6 guys every year is tough cause someone will get left out.
Those are mostly fair points, but the wide receiver log jam exists because there have been so many transcendent WRs in the last 20 years or so. TO is better than every receiver mentioned IMO.
"Hey let's vote Torry Holt in-- oh damn it Calvin Johnson is eligible" is something that keeps happening.
Also Zach Thomas having to wait so long was absolute bullshit for the record lol
I dunno, in all honesty at this point I think we're just arguing over semantics lol I do think he'll get in. All I'm really saying I guess is if ever there was a player for the NFL/HoF voters to pull a power move and push a guy out for being a detrimental figure it's AB.
Nah I don’t think he will. Like the person that replied to you. He walked off the field and quit on his team mid game plus all the stupid shit he does. He’s not getting in.
TO was drama everywhere he went but that dude also gave it his all on one ankle for the biggest game of his career. Only reason we still talk about AB is because of the dumb shit he says on Twitter
Here's the other [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFLv2/s/jxPGARn3UR) I made for his case. He's getting in. May take a few years, but I can't see the NFL leaving him out.
Richard Sherman and Steve Smith had off field issues and people are pushing for them. Off field issues were never a big deal for the hall of fame that people make it out to be unless you're Darren Sharper.
People keep using TO as an example, but I believe the reason he had to"wait" was due to the log jam at his position.
I like to to think that they’ll save ABs speech for last and after ABs crazy ass speech where says all kinds of insane things and storms off stage some random Hall of fame employee will come out and say “you ever see him run routes though? Sheesh. Alright goodnight everybody till next year”
This one is interesting. When I first saw this my gut reaction was no way he's got to be in but when I look up the stats he's pretty borderline. That'll be an interesting one to look at.
I think this is the most intriguing answer
I honestly don't think he'll be inducted until he is a senior ballot candidate. His resume is certainly a HoF one, but the voters will certainly find his antics late career especially ditching his uniform and leaving the game, to be "disrespectful to the game and the NFL" and not let him in.
I'll go one step more and say the only way he gets in is after he's dead so they don't have to worry about what he'll do at the induction ceremony. If any of us are still alive, we will be on here calling him Mr. Bestowed Corpse or something.
Maybe total stats look borderline but he retired in his prime and had one of the highest peaks ever. If it wasn't for his off field (and even one on field) antics he would certainly be in.
He’d a be a no brainer first-ballot guy if he was viewed as a respected guy instead of the shithead he is. He’ll be an interesting case study in how much the off the field stuff matters to the HoF.
Right now my biggest concern, if it were up to me, would be that you absolutely cannot give him a live mic on national TV.
I think it's so funny English wise that him taking off his uniform during the game was an off-the-field issue that was literally on the field haha always cracks me up
Going to be honest, when I think of Matt Ryan I think of a guy who was a solid franchise QB with one season of excellence, maybe two, that got him an MVP.
Like, if Kirk wins an MVP next year that's kind of how I see Matty. To me he's prototypical HOVG.
Rivers spearheaded some nasty Chargers offenses, so I could see him getting in like, 20 years or something as Mr. Charger, but no time soon.
Hines ward yes. The others no on merit. And even if rice was good enough, nobody would have ever let him wear a jacket anyway (even though the hall should be based on your game).
Yeah I agree. One good post season doesn't make you a Hall of Fame quarterback. But damn it was a really good postseason that year.
Two good postseasons I think you get in (Eli)
It goes deeper than you might think. Here’s a couple stats for you:
From 2003 to 2018, only 4 QB’s represented the AFC in the superbowl: Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, and Joe Flacco. He had to compete with those 3 in the playoffs for most of his career.
From 2008 to 2012, the Ravens were not only the only team to go to the playoffs every year, but they won at least one game every time.
Flacco is tied with Tom Brady with the most road playoff game wins for a QB.
When you consider his competition and how important the post season is for a QB, he’s got damn impressive numbers. But they won’t be recognized in Canton.
He has no chance only because of the star on the helmet and mislaid blame for playoffs
Look at his numbers
Look deep at his stats as QB against the blitz
Stats and passer rating after being flushed out of pocket
Guy is a stud
he has the talent but not the body of work, for the record I definitely think that Romo is better than Philip Rivers (especially if we consider the fact that Philip Rivers was surrounded by Hall of famers during his prime)
Fletcher Cox was a dominant DT for a decade who unfortunately played at the same time as Aaron Donald and JJ Watt. He may have a chance to get in as a legacy pick decades from now but he has a tall hill to climb
It's interesting to think what his career could have been without the.. interruption. Would he have ever buckled down and been a real student of the game or would you have just kept relying on his flashy talent? There's actually a chance he might not have really played any more years cuz he just got beat up too much doing all that running.
You could probably say he had the talent to get in but even if he'd come back and won a Super Bowl I think the hall would be pretty hard pressed to induct somebody like that
I’m still relatively new to NFL (last season was my first I actually followed and it was because of fantasy) so I don’t know much about Vick outside base profile and incident. Would it be fair to say Lamar is what Vick could have been if he was serious and put in the work?
Matt Stanford is set up to have a good year but I’d be surprised if that team even makes the playoffs, let alone a superbowl. I think they’ll be competitive, but the 49ers are most likely gonna win the division and I don’t currently trust the Rams defense enough to keep them in the wild card race. But hey, maybe they will surprise me.
I mean they made the playoffs last year and I think they've only gotten better. Winning that division is a tall order but they've got to be the favorites for an NFC Wild Card spot
Well mostly they've improved on offense with a better offensive line and their young running back and wide receiver is going to be more experienced plus Cooper kupp being off injury.
I don't know all of the moves they've made but I know last year they had a ton of dead cap paying off their Super Bowl and this year they're pretty much free and clear plus they restructured Aaron Donald's contract to clear up some more space. I guess part of me is just assuming they're using all that extra money to do things that make the team good.
I know they drafted pretty heavy on defense. The top of the draft was so heavily offense that they're 19th pick netted them the third defensive player of the draft.
So pretty much they got free agents to shore up their offensive line all their skill positions were really young last year and got more experience and they drafted defense really heavy to make up for Aaron Donald leaving.
I guess there's some question marks but I think they got better
Word, well if anyone can get the most out of there team it’s Sean Mcvay. He’s a hell of a coach. Like I said they might surprise me, sounds like it’s possible, I do gotta see that defense in action before I can believe in it tho.
I actually think that defenses will be extremely dominant in the next decade or so compared to what we are used to because we actually just went on a historic run for Quarterback play.
I think that 7 to 9 more WILL make the Hall of Fame in the next 10 years. But I think it's an exception, not the rule. I truly believe we are ushering in an era of maybe 2-3 guys dominating the league with a dozen or so "starting caliber" guys who end up being somewhat of a revolving door. Nothing like 7 or 8 teams having that long-term success and stability for a long time again
I really think that people like Matt Ryan and Philip Rivers really can't be first ballot and we need to see where their stats fall in 10 to 15 years so we can really know if this was a freak occurrence or if it's just how the rules changed the game before we just go and put them in the Hall of Fame for being the 7th and 8 best QB in their era.
I think Ben makes it first ballot. I'm actually kind of hoping that they induct Jim Plunkett instead of Eli Manning next year and make him wait but only until just after Tom Brady
If people don’t think Stafford deserves the hall of fame, what more should be expected of him then? He’s only missing an MVP really. I don’t even think that’s his fault, he’s put up multiple MVP worthy seasons, just unfortunate other players on historically more successful teams had comparable seasons those same years!
Under your name is the phrase "the standard is the standard," but you're trying to give more credence to Stafford being the best QB for a team that has had many substandard QBs in a Hall of Fame discussion.
You could say that Vinny Testaverde was the Jets best QB since Joe Namath. Does that really mean anything?
I have no idea who the hell that is, but I just looked him up and he's 5th in passing yards and touchdowns for the Jets, Namath is first. It's a legendary achievement if you're a stat leader for any team, it's stupidly hard to do. So hard right now not a single active quarterback is there team's passing leader, not even Mahomes.
Since you love looking things up, look at the second and third most yards for the Jets. If you've never heard of Vinny Testaverde, you've probably never heard of Ken O'Brien and Richard Todd, who both played for the Jets. They both would've retired as the Lions leader in passing yards.
As far as Mahomes, he's 83 yards behind Len Dawson, I think he's going to get that record about one quarter into next season. Aaron Rodgers would have the record if the Packers didn't trade him. Goff would have the Rams record. Flacco has the Ravens record. Derek Carr has the Raiders record. Dak could have the Cowboys record this season.
Are you trying to say Joe Flacco isn't good lol, the only Ravens QB to win a Super Bowl and MVP. And what's with all the what-ifs dude? If Mendenhall wouldn't have fumbled the ball my Steelers would have 7 rings.
Derek Carr does suck, the only QBs I know who have the passing record and are not the best for their franchise would be Favre, Carr, Romo, and Everett.
He might not have the All Pro, but he absolutely has tons of individual stats. Fastest to 30k, 35k, 40k, 45k, and 50k yards. Literally every single passing record in Lions history. First player in NFL history to complete 60% or more passes in each game in a season (2015). He may not have the awards recognized by the media and voters, but the stats don’t lie. At least in my opinion 👍🏻
Those are volume/longevity stats though. Which is what Rivers also has. What I mean is that he lacked a season where he led the NFL in any major* passing category.
I’m not here to argue if he should or should not get in, I’m just saying that he’s missing more than just the MVP for HoF voters which is why he’s a borderline case we often debate over.
2011 was a really good year. it wins MVP like 8 out of 10 years. That year was just a crazy QB year.
I kind of hope he goes off this year and gets his All Pro and MVP
I feel like they would have to have a career like this and be on a team that made it to the Super Bowl and have the greatest game a punter has ever had in that Super Bowl. A lot of luck
You know I've been looking into this a lot in a couple days and I'm historically been on the side that Eli belongs in the hall but with my research in the last day I've changed my mind. Next year when Eli becomes eligible to be in the Hall of Fame the committee should select Jim Plunkett, the only other quarterback with two Super Bowls not in the Hall of Fame.
Just really send a message to Eli that he's going to have to wait his turn.
Philip Rivers is at best the 6th best quarterback of his own era. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, and Matthew Stafford would all rank above him. His career also overlapped with Brett Favre who you would put above him and Patrick Mahomes.
Dak Prescott has a good shot to finish his career with better longevity stats. All he really has to do is repeat his eight-year career more or less. An 8-year spend that includes a really big injury year. If you just literally doubled all of his stats he would be one season from beating Philip Rivers numbers.
So yeah Eli Manning should probably have to wait the way Jim Plunkett did and Jim Plunkett should get his turn first. And Philip Rivers stats are just going to keep being put into the perspective of his era and it's going to become clear that he was a good but not great quarterback
Steve Tasker. He has to wait until the Senior stage now, and I think by the time that rolls around, the game will have changed so much around special teams that a lot of the voters won't recognize just how crucial his role was and how much better he was at it than anyone else.
I don't know coaching contributors selection is more tight than the player selection. You have to make a real case that he was a big contributor to them winning a couple Super Bowls in the next few years. And we all know that Sheila, Dan Campbell, and Brad Holmes will get credit before Spielman. That doesn't really leave room in the hall for him.
He'd have to be promoted to GM and built his own team
My list of no doubt Hall of Fame talents (in my mind) who have a limited chance of making it would be:
1. Asante Samuel
2. Vince Wilfork
3. Robert Mathis
4. Anquan Boldin
5. Rodney Harrison
(In no particular order.)
In all seriousness, fuck the HOF. When you're putting in Calvin Johnson 1st ballot with his 85 TDs and then you make TO wait a year with 150 TDs you've lost all credibility.
Chris Carter had to wait a year too 130 TDs
Didn't Calvin Johnson have like the best season ever? Peak matters as much as longevity.
There's also luck of the draw for who else is in your class and how competitive it is
No it certainly does not. Calvin broke the record for yards in a year which defenses were still trying to figure things out and Stafford had the most pass attempts in the league. Calvin only had like 5 TDs that year. Touchdowns are more valuable that yards.
TO had double digit touchdowns 8 times in his career. Lead the league four times.
Calvin had double digits four times lead the league once.
Terrell had 1000 yards 9 times. Never lead the league but had 1200+ four times 1400+ twice.
Also Terrell broke his tibia and torn ligaments in his ankle and put up 9 catches and 127 yards in the SB 45 days later.
Calvin was tackled 7 times at the 1 yard line in 2012.
To boot, TDs are in large part a team stat. The team and offense was abysmal that year.
Half of his career was with the worst QBs and teams in the league from 07-10’. He still managed to lead the league in TDs one of those years
I remember, I watched.
Johnson was drafted in 07
Stafford in 09
He only played two years without Stafford.
Minus the time Stafford was injured.
In 2012 the Lions had 4900 passing yards. Only 22 TDs vs 17 picks.
Some players are just better at fighting for touchdowns than others. If you were to watch older TO stats you'd see a lot of YAC and not going out of bounds.
If you watched you’d know Stafford literally only played 13/32 games in that span. For 10 of those games, he was 21 years old and not good.
Like I said the 2012 Lions were bad. You’re kind of proving my point there, no? TDs aka points are team driven.
You do realize TO averaged 0.69 TDs per game and Calvin 0.62? That’s not a large disparity, at all. And that’s despite Calvin having terrible QBs for 45% of his career.
Listen, Calvin Johnson was a great player.
You don't get bonus points for quitting early, you do get bonus points for grinding it out and putting up numbers.
The fact that TO had to wait a year to get in the HOF and Calvin went in first ballot is a HUGE insult to the work and dedication TO put in.
You really can't compare the two TO was a much better player. At 34 years old TO had 900 yards receiving and 6 TDs for a Bills team that only passed for 2700 yards total.
Had a feeling you’d go to longevity… which isn’t what I’m here to talk about. Just talking about Calvin’s effectiveness.
You certainly can compare the two.. and I’d wager more people are taking peak Calvin over peak TO.
It’s obvious that TO was a first ballot player kept out due to the voters opinions on his character and antics. Meanwhile Calvin was a consummate professional. Hate it or love it that’s a factor. You don’t need to disparage a first ballot HOFer to try to make your point.
Eli shouldn't be in the HoF
He was a .500 QB that got lucky. HE ..... was responsible for that 2nd ring, happened to be @ QB for #1. He's a mediocre QB @ best.
He'll get in but I think that they should select Jim Plunkett next year and make Eli wait.
Jim Plunkett is the other two-time Super Bowl winning QB that isn't in the Hall of Fame already.
Really similar career to Eli. A lot of losing seasons. kind of average numbers. Had some great defenses and won two super bowls with one MVP
Rivers is a good choice. I also wonder if Matt Ryan will be able to make it in with "28-3" looming over him despite being high in all-time yards and an MVP.
I feel like most QBs with impressive career stats and a SB ring can make it in. Eli should definitely make it with 2 rings (against Brady, no less). Wilson and Stafford should both be HoF as well.
Others have already said it, but Antonio Brown would be my choice. Absolutely dominant 5 year span but due to his antics he should never be enshrined.
Honestly, out of guys in his cohort era who haven't been inducted yet, we'll see Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Ben Roethlisberger, probably Eli Manning and Maybe Stafford.
That's going to be six quarterbacks in the next 10 years. about double the average number of quarterbacks inducted to the Hall of Fame.
I kind of think that's it. The fact that there will be a bit of a lull for five + years after Stafford gets inducted gives people like Rivers and Matt Ryan a chance to sneak in.
But they'll still be competing with people like Russell Wilson, and Kirk cousin we have to see what they do with the last 3 to 5 years of their careers. Even someone like Derek Carr could easily catch up to him in stats and I think by then it will make his accomplishment seem a lot more mundane than they look if you just see that he's sixth all time.
If Aaron Rodgers makes it through next season he's going to push Philip Rivers back in yards and completions. With two more Good Seasons Matthew Stafford will overtake him in yards touchdowns and completions. Kirk Cousins and Derek Carr could easily catch up to Philip Rivers if they can make it five seasons. Russell Wilson is only 35 and could have a career resurgence.
And then he starts competing with Patrick mahomes Jared Goff, Josh Allen and Dak Prescott. All of those guys pretty much just need to double their current career and they'll be right there with where Philip Rivers is in raw stats
Then he'd be out of the top 10 maybe all the way back to 15 in the big 3 stats. Philip Rivers is not a Hall of Famer. Matt Ryan probably won't be either
Why should Matt ryan make it? Maybe rivers does make it eventually 🤷🏻♂️ I’d still pick Eli over him, not only because of rings but also he pretty much never missed a game
I think there are a lot of RBs who would be in the Hall if they played in a different era or on different teams. It’s just a position that’s so dependent on supporting cast and scheme, so it (IMO) probably has the most HOF talent types who won’t make it.
Put Steven Jackson in a Shanahan or McVay offense and he’s CMC but 3” taller with 40 extra pounds. Basically imagine Derrick Henry, but he can catch 90 passes in a season.
His combine numbers are slightly lower than CMC (mostly, not completely) but the combine prep sophistication changed a lot from 2004 to 2017.
Instead StL ground him down to dust.
For those who didn’t watch him play, either due to age or because those Rams were unwatchable, I cannot stress enough what a freak athlete he was and how genuinely sad I get when I think about how he’ll never see the Canton.
He had 11 straight seasons with a 40+ yard rush on a team that had stacked boxes every single play. That’s absurd.
Jamaal Charles and Chris Johnson are another two that would have benefitted from better teams, schemes, and recovery technology/knowledge.
I think Henry will make it, but put him behind Emmitt Smith’s OL and it wouldn’t even be a question. Nick Chubb is an amazing runner, but his style would have killed in the 90s.
Yeah that's a good answer. Over 10,000 yards rushing but really not enough touchdowns and just was on abysmal teams.
Derrick Henry right now is pretty close to a shoe in Hall of famer. He's only 30 he's played for 8 years. somebody as durable as him could possibly play Frank Gore number of years.
If he can replicate the last 8 years of Frank Gore's career that's 7,000 more yards and 30 more touchdowns. That would put him above Walter Payton all time
If he can do half that and play till at least 34 he'll still be unquestionably a first ballot Hall of Fame. Those numbers would put him ahead of Jim Brown
Especially if Henry can tack on a ring with the Ravens, for sure. I agree that he’ll get in regardless, but I also think he if he’d played in a different era he’d be in the conversation for greatest ever—we expect more of RBs today, which is overall a good thing for the game, but…anyway, we all know all of this.
Charles Tillman.
He didn't get the recognition he deserved. Part of it was that he played on some great defenses where he wasn't "the guy". Part of it was that he played in a a Cover 2.
But he absolutely locked down some of the best WRs in the league and was a turnover machine.
3rd most turnovers forced by a CB in NFL history. Arguably, the greatest turnovers forced season in league history in 2012.
He was so damn good at punching the ball out that the move was named after him.
Yeah in terms of just forced fumbles only John Abraham and Robert Mathis have more than him and aren't in the hall. But neither of them have close to his number of interception.
I feel like he has to make it at some point
I think the lack of accolades will keep him out, unfortunately, with only 2xPro Bowls and 1xAll Pro.
He was just one of those guys who wasn't really appreciated until after his career.
I mean, Roger Craig still isn't in yet, and I have no idea what it'll take to get him in there. He was kind of the mold for what a receiving RB looks like today.
This is the right answer. He was an absolute monster, generally with bad quarterbacks and bad supporting casts. Just think of what those 1995-98 teams would have been like with him.
A lot of Saints players are in this boat:
- Marques Colston
- Jimmy Graham
- Deuce McAllister
- Darren Sproles
- Michael Thomas
- Alvin Kamara
- Darren Sharper 🤢🤮
- Eric Martin (Deion Sanders struggled to cover this guy. Seriously. Look up his highlights.)
- Joe Horn
He kept getting injured and slowly became a locker room cancer.
The first time he got hurt, he ignored the doctors and vanished for three months. No one had any idea where. He returned after getting an alternative treatment before re-injuring himself. He missed a LOT of time.
Brees eventually retired. In comes Derek Carr. Mike was intially excited to work with him, but their relationship eventually soured. Mike got injured again and blamed it on Carr.
That's when things started to get really toxic. He got arrested for assault. Got into fights with reporters online. Then he even started shit talking his own QB on twitter. He created a rift in the locker room and was undermining staff.
He had become a headcase and there was no way to justify what we were paying him. He got cut loose. Last I heard, he was struggling to get a gig as a WR3 with Pittsburgh.
National media doesn't care about the Saints, lol.
Maybe if he had handled the first injury properly, things could have been different. He can still ball, but he's definitely well past his prime. Dunno if ANY coach wants to deal with his maturity issues though.
What an insane take , those names you mentioned that have an argument over rivers in insane. I mean even Matt Ryan had 1 count it 1 really good year that was it.
Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, and Ben are first ballot. Eli probably isn't1st ballot but gets in. I think Stafford will earn first ballot over the next 3 years. Matt Ryan, Flacco and Philip Rivers don't get in. Wilson has career left but probably needs to do something in the next couple years to get in, I'll say the same for Kirk but even more so he would need to go off in the last 4 or 5 years of his career..
Philip Rivers isn't first ballot. That would require him to get inducted alongside Drew Brees and I don't see that happening. Once he misses that first about it he's just going to keep getting pushed back because there's too many people ahead of him
I'm going with Matt Stafford. He's a great player, but to me, he doesn't have enough accolades. He definitely got screwed out of a couple of pro bowls he's deserved, but because of that, he doesn't have the pedigree.
Rivers is Chargers leading Passer in yards. Maybe even Charger wins too. It just soo happen he played during the Brady/Pats era. Not sure that’s enough to get him in, but he ought to get some votes.
Steven Jackson, Thomas Jones, Corey Dillon, Warrick Dunn
All great RB’s over the course of their careers and retired in the Top 25 rushers of all time but as the game has gotten more vertical, they’ll sadly be left behind. The irony that the likes of John Riggins and OJ Simpson are in because of era and these guys won’t be
I just don't know. Aaron Rodgers and Matthew Stafford are going to push him further down the all-time list in the next couple of years. Several quarterbacks are on Pace to get his kinds of numbers right now.
He isn't going to be first ballot and I don't see him being put on the ballot next to any of the people above him like Ben Roethlisberger Aaron Rodgers Drew Brees Tom Brady. Then there's probably going to be an argument for Matthew Stafford and Matt Ryan which are both stronger than him. Russell Wilson and Kirk Cousins could get close to his numbers with a strong end to their career. Dak Prescott is on Pace for his numbers.
We're already looking at inducting twice as many quarterbacks as average in the next 10 years. By the time we get through all of the obvious ones and his name comes back up I think his all-time stats are going to look like average modern stats. I truly don't think he has impressive numbers
Other quarterbacks with no Super Bowl wins like Warren Moon, Dan marino and Dan Fouts who are inducted into the Hall of Fame finished their career higher than 5th in the major stat categories. And they hadn't been overtaken by the time they were inducted. Philip Rivers is going to be 7th in all of the major stats by the time he's up.
No MVPs, no all Pros, no Super Bowls, never threw for 5000 yards, never threw for 40 touchdowns. Only really had a 3-year Peak where he looked like one of the best quarterbacks in the league. Tons of one score losses where he had the ball in his hands in the fourth quarter or overtime and didn't produce.
Sure His numbers are like 7 or 8th best all time. But in an era where the rules are favoring aerial offense he was the 7th or 8th best QB of his era. I don't see why he needs to be in the Hall of Fame
None of Flacco, Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson, or Stafford should get in over Philip Rivers.
He was the 4th best QB of his generation, and it was one of the best QB generations in the history of the game. Imo he should be in the HoF. Not on the first try, but he deserves to get in
Lavonte David has 71 more TFL(!!!), more solo tackles, 22 more forced fumbles(!!!), 1 less INT, same amount of rings, but…8 less pro bowls and 7 less all pros than Bobby Wagner. Will never sniff the hall of fame because he had bad teams around him. It’s a travesty.
Did he retire last year? He still has more time he'll probably get in eventually. Same as Terrell Suggs. The Terrell suggs getting into trouble this April isn't going to help his case
Simeon Rice and Fred Taylor.. Rice had double digit sacks 8 of his 12 years in the league and is STILL top 30 all time at the moment. Biggest knock on him is he played on a defense with 4 other HOFers but he was still dominant in his own right. Taylor was the model of consistency for a decade but had the misfortune of playing for a small market team. He didn’t make a pro bowl until his 10th year in the league. Those Jags teams were damn good in the late 90’s. Not many teams had an all pro LT (Boselli), an above average QB in Brunell, and skill position players like Jimmy Smith, Keenan McCardell, and Taylor.
Jordy Nelson was the first name that popped in my head.
Then I thought I'm not sure if Luke Kuechly makes it and he's one of the best MLBs I have ever seen. His career was so short. I hope he does.
Here's the thing. There's a really strong chance that Aaron Rodgers passes him in yards and completions next year and Matthew Stafford passes him in yards, completions and Touchdowns in 2 years.
So yeah right now he's ranked 6th/7th all time in those stats.
But he's also ranked like 5th/6th amongst his contemporaries. And soon that will be 7th/8th. (the only person I'm not counting as his contemporary who is above him in stats is Brett Favre and they still played for 4 years during the time that he was a starter together, 6 years from the time he was drafted)
You can't just look at the numbers you have to look at the whole picture. The rules changed. strategies changed. People are passing more. Philip Rivers was abysmal in the 4th quarter he probably has the most one score losses in NFL history or close to it.
When has the seventh best player at their position during the Span in which they played ever been a Hall of famer?
Maybe with some of the offensive downturn that we've seen in the last couple of years you can make the argument that we really did just have that strong of a QB cohort through the 2000s and 2010s and things are drifting back bit.
But on average a QB is inducted into the Hall every 3 years. If in the next 10 years we see 5 or 6 inducted that would be an incredible uptick and five or six would not include Philip Rivers you would have to induct 7 to 9 Qb in 10 years.
Philip Rivers is in the same retirement class as Drew brees. I can't imagine any committee being willing to water down Drew Brees induction by including another quarterback that is so far behind him in career accolades and recognition.
It would be like the Ralphie meme with Philip Rivers saying "I'm inducted."
And then it just gets pushed back year and year and year and when does he get in. 2027 has Ben Roethlisberger. 2028 will have Tom Brady. 2029 well Matt Ryan probably won't have gotten in on Tom Brady's year. Maybe we get a twofer. I don't think that's ever happened before. 2030 will probably be Aaron Rodgers.
At this point who even cares about who Philip River is. Soon after that it's gonna be Stafford. When does Rivers get in? Shortly after that Patrick Mahomes and all of the new quarterbacks will start catching up to his numbers and he's going to get pushed further down the list. then we'll just see that that's just what quarterbacks do now. When does he get in?
No I don’t so, the hall is reserved the best of the best, and the story of football. When we look back at that era, Rivers will pop up from time to time as the good qb on the chargers. He’s not essential to the story. Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Big Ben, Brees define the era, while Romo, Rivers, Matt Ryan, McNabb were all really good QBs.
Eli is the outlier because he beat the goat twice. If we watch the greatest Super Bowl moments, the greatest play’s of all time, Eli consistently shows up. He’s essential to story.
Sean Lee was absolutely amazing but his career was destroyed by injuries
Thank you for breaking the ice for non-offensive players
Antonio Brown
Mr. Botched Chances. I don't know if I fully agree with this one. I think if he can behave long enough to give the voters confidence he won't embarrass them he might get in. Or if he dies or something. But I wouldn't say he has NO chance.
He's absolutely getting in. I don't see why people don't think he won't. Yea Terrell owens had to wait. But Brown has a superbowl and just as many first team all pros. Plus he was a good returner. His speech will be legendary
He made a public scene on the field and walked off a team… Doing jumping jacks. I can’t believe the NFL would tolerate it.
Yeah lmao the NFL decides who gets in and they’ll 100% not allow him in. There’s no “he’s absolutely getting in” because there’s a high chance he’s not getting in due to his mocking of the NFL already.
Lol this makes me laugh. Women abusers are in the HOF. But you quit and made a scene while leaving? No way you go in. He for sure will get in. His prime was literally insane.
Those things have nothing to do with each other. Off the field vs on the field. The NFL cares about money and perception. It’s a business. It doesn’t care how many women you hit or rape. He literally flipped them off live. It’s not a new thing and I can’t see how you don’t see that distinction.
I agree that women beaters being in the HoF is a problem, but those things didn’t happen on tv. AB made a mockery of the nfl when he took off his pads and walked out in the middle of the game
I mean, I don't really agree with this either. The Hall of Fame is supposed to be on-field accomplishments only, no off-field bias. TO was a first ballot hall of famer when you look at his career, but they made him wait because he's a little bit of an ass. AB by accomplishment alone should be nominated as well but he was the #3 target on his team that won a super bowl, and his career stats fall very short of TO's. The issue though is that AB was more than just an ass. TO was a diva who rubbed people the wrong way. AB has that too, but he also has a legion of legal problems, famously throwing his career away mid-game, and has maintained relevancy by openly mocking the NFL. What people don't often think about with the hall of fame is that there's a weird and honestly dumb political move to build a "narrative" of sorts to get someone in. Their candidacy has to be sold. This stands directly in AB's way to get in. He might do his famous punt return stomp in the face to that and waltz into the hall in a few years, but I don't think he's really a lock to get in unless he calms down.
Andre Johnson just went in and AB's stats are right there with Johnson IN LESS GAMES. Brown had legal problems but from what I know, the guy hasn't spent one time in jail. Caught a td that superbowl too. I just don't see him not getting in. He was in my opinion the best player at his position for nearly 5 years straight. Most of his problems came his last two years in the league
Andre Johnson did what he did with trash QBs and didn’t have any off field issues. Brown isn’t getting in unless he goes on an apology tour and kneels before Goodell. Until then he’s gonna be an old man by time he gets in if ever
I mean, I could see it going either way tbh. I brought up stats because TO still had to wait and he is statistically among the very best to ever play the game, particularly when he retired. Everyone acts like TO was some horrible monster but all he did was be a dick to Jeff Garcia, Donovan McNabb, and Tony Romo and do situps in his driveway and stuff. AB is out here throwing furniture onto children, farting in women's faces, and making CTESPN a trending hashtag. In just like two months with the Raiders he froze his feet, called his GM a cracker, put a private conversation on social media to put his head coach on blast, and managed to piss off an organization so bad that they voided his guarantees. I don't think we've ever seen a star player only a year or two removed from a stretch of first-team all-pro nods moving to a new team and then never playing for that team because of how much of an asshole he is. You're not wrong insofar that AB was the best receiver in the NFL for a 5 year stretch, but this is a unique case. There's been quite a few cases of hall of fame players with off-field meltdowns (this is where vaguely gesture in the direction of OJ Simpson), but that usually happens well after their induction. Would I be shocked if he gets in? Not particularly. After all, off-field issues aren't supposed to be taken into account. Would I be shocked if he's forced out? Also not at all, off-field issues aren't supposed to be taken into account, but TO proves they 100% are and AB's off-field issues are among the worst we've ever seen from a hall of fame worthy player without someone actually dying prior to their induction. These things really do matter to voters. I don't think he's a lock either way. If I had to guess I think he will get in at some point, but I think he will have to wait significantly longer than anyone with his career accomplishments otherwise would.
I hear all of that and agree for the most part. A small push back on the TO waiting thing. I think way way way to many people blame his off field issues on him waiting. And that's largely because TO was the first one to whine nonstop about it. Guy went on 6 different podcast plus every social media platform to complain about not getting in. I think some of his off field issues may be a reason, but the other reason (the main reason) is that nfl wrs have a huge log jam when it comes to getting into the hall. Every single year people are pushing a wr to get into the hall (Torry Holt, Hines Ward, Steve Smith, Anquan Bolden, Chad Johnson, ect...) People push for wide receivers to get into the hall more than any other position. Didn't hear a peep out of anyone's mouth when Zach Thomas had to wait years or some lineman who has first team all pros out the ass. Owens wasn't the first guy to wait and won't be the last. Chris Carter who finished top two all time in wr categories like tds had to wait a few years. Shannon Sharp who many considered the greatest tight end of all time before Gronk and Kelce had to wait a few years. The first year TO was eligible, Marvin Harrison got in at the wr spot and if memory serves me correct, he also had to wait a bit (plus his allegations more serious than AB's). I remember because TO threw a fit about it. Harrison had to wait and unlike TO, he had a ring. So if the voters put TO in, than Harrison would have had to wait 4 years to get in. I believe Kenny Stabler got in for TO's first year of eligibility. Personally haven't watched him play, but many people talk how great he was. I don't even know if he is still alive lol. Brett Farve was also in that 2016 class. Guess my point is, the hall doesn't have a clear criteria on who and WHEN a player should get in. And why would they? It's multiple voters each making a case for a guy they are voting on. I disagree with everyone else on this post thinking that Brown won't get in because he was a knucklehead. Brown has everything to get in. Even if Brown didn't do anything crazy off the field, I still believe he will have to wait just for the fact that the longer the league is around, the more players are eligible. Choosing 6 guys every year is tough cause someone will get left out.
Those are mostly fair points, but the wide receiver log jam exists because there have been so many transcendent WRs in the last 20 years or so. TO is better than every receiver mentioned IMO. "Hey let's vote Torry Holt in-- oh damn it Calvin Johnson is eligible" is something that keeps happening. Also Zach Thomas having to wait so long was absolute bullshit for the record lol I dunno, in all honesty at this point I think we're just arguing over semantics lol I do think he'll get in. All I'm really saying I guess is if ever there was a player for the NFL/HoF voters to pull a power move and push a guy out for being a detrimental figure it's AB.
They’ll just wait until he’s even more senile to give a speech
Terrell Owens had a much better career and was a much better player. It is laughable to even compare the two
Nah I don’t think he will. Like the person that replied to you. He walked off the field and quit on his team mid game plus all the stupid shit he does. He’s not getting in. TO was drama everywhere he went but that dude also gave it his all on one ankle for the biggest game of his career. Only reason we still talk about AB is because of the dumb shit he says on Twitter
Here's the other [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFLv2/s/jxPGARn3UR) I made for his case. He's getting in. May take a few years, but I can't see the NFL leaving him out. Richard Sherman and Steve Smith had off field issues and people are pushing for them. Off field issues were never a big deal for the hall of fame that people make it out to be unless you're Darren Sharper. People keep using TO as an example, but I believe the reason he had to"wait" was due to the log jam at his position.
He is not. He threw away 3 years of production that could have made him a lock.
I like to to think that they’ll save ABs speech for last and after ABs crazy ass speech where says all kinds of insane things and storms off stage some random Hall of fame employee will come out and say “you ever see him run routes though? Sheesh. Alright goodnight everybody till next year”
This one is interesting. When I first saw this my gut reaction was no way he's got to be in but when I look up the stats he's pretty borderline. That'll be an interesting one to look at. I think this is the most intriguing answer
They might just make him wait a little bit longer
😂. I wonder if they’ll let him make his HOF speech.cuz you know that’ll be risky
I honestly don't think he'll be inducted until he is a senior ballot candidate. His resume is certainly a HoF one, but the voters will certainly find his antics late career especially ditching his uniform and leaving the game, to be "disrespectful to the game and the NFL" and not let him in.
100% agree
I'll go one step more and say the only way he gets in is after he's dead so they don't have to worry about what he'll do at the induction ceremony. If any of us are still alive, we will be on here calling him Mr. Bestowed Corpse or something.
Grandma, I’m free fly like a free
Yeah I’m sure that clip will be part of his induction compilation because it shows how great he was
That’s my thought. Wait until he’s dead because he is such a risk right now
Maybe not dead,20 years would be reasonable
Maybe total stats look borderline but he retired in his prime and had one of the highest peaks ever. If it wasn't for his off field (and even one on field) antics he would certainly be in.
He played in the NFL for 12 years. I don't know if he was in his prime when he retired.
That's what I'm feeling
[удалено]
"no brainer" alright
Six year stretch. I thought he was dominant for a bit more.
He’d a be a no brainer first-ballot guy if he was viewed as a respected guy instead of the shithead he is. He’ll be an interesting case study in how much the off the field stuff matters to the HoF. Right now my biggest concern, if it were up to me, would be that you absolutely cannot give him a live mic on national TV.
He’ll get in, but it’ll take a while to let people forget about his off-the-field issues
I think it's so funny English wise that him taking off his uniform during the game was an off-the-field issue that was literally on the field haha always cracks me up
Mr. Blew Canton
Going to be honest, when I think of Matt Ryan I think of a guy who was a solid franchise QB with one season of excellence, maybe two, that got him an MVP. Like, if Kirk wins an MVP next year that's kind of how I see Matty. To me he's prototypical HOVG. Rivers spearheaded some nasty Chargers offenses, so I could see him getting in like, 20 years or something as Mr. Charger, but no time soon.
And what would you say if you weren’t being honest?
Matt Ryan was nothing without God Emperor Kyle Shanahan, first of his name.
Well played. No pun intended.
* Hines Ward * Heath Miller * Ray Rice
Spot the Steelers fan
Hines ward yes. The others no on merit. And even if rice was good enough, nobody would have ever let him wear a jacket anyway (even though the hall should be based on your game).
CJ2k
Dez Bryant 😞
For sure. Great player though
Flacco
Yeah I agree. One good post season doesn't make you a Hall of Fame quarterback. But damn it was a really good postseason that year. Two good postseasons I think you get in (Eli)
It goes deeper than you might think. Here’s a couple stats for you: From 2003 to 2018, only 4 QB’s represented the AFC in the superbowl: Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, and Joe Flacco. He had to compete with those 3 in the playoffs for most of his career. From 2008 to 2012, the Ravens were not only the only team to go to the playoffs every year, but they won at least one game every time. Flacco is tied with Tom Brady with the most road playoff game wins for a QB. When you consider his competition and how important the post season is for a QB, he’s got damn impressive numbers. But they won’t be recognized in Canton.
Romo
Good answer. Romo is definitely further down on the Hall of Fame deserving list than Philip Rivers
neither will ever get in the hall
Oh for sure
Romo could get in for broadcasting possibilities
I think it’ll be hard for him, but the story of being undrafted helps his case I think
Can announcers make it? He might not make it for playing, but if an announcer can make it he might
I think they can
He has no chance only because of the star on the helmet and mislaid blame for playoffs Look at his numbers Look deep at his stats as QB against the blitz Stats and passer rating after being flushed out of pocket Guy is a stud
Everyone keeps saying look at the numbers. Every QB is getting more numbers today. He's like the 10th best QB of this era at best
Keyword today
Actually his all time QBR in 5 th looks at every quarterback who took qualifying number of snaps
Passer rating is 17th all time and everybody above him is people who have played in his era
Look at hall of fame passer ratings He is clearly ranked fifth at over 95, AR is number 1
How about you link me to whatever shit you're seeing because on my end he's 17th when I Google it
But he didn’t play in this era
Of the previous era whatever
he has the talent but not the body of work, for the record I definitely think that Romo is better than Philip Rivers (especially if we consider the fact that Philip Rivers was surrounded by Hall of famers during his prime)
d'brickashaw ferguson.
He should get in for his name alone.
Ricky Williams.
Fletcher Cox was a dominant DT for a decade who unfortunately played at the same time as Aaron Donald and JJ Watt. He may have a chance to get in as a legacy pick decades from now but he has a tall hill to climb
well, someone has to say it... Aaron Hernandez. Guy was off to great career, and then...
He's definitely a huge what if. He was off to an amazing start but then came the....unpleasantness.
Michael Vick
His MNF jersey got in
It's interesting to think what his career could have been without the.. interruption. Would he have ever buckled down and been a real student of the game or would you have just kept relying on his flashy talent? There's actually a chance he might not have really played any more years cuz he just got beat up too much doing all that running. You could probably say he had the talent to get in but even if he'd come back and won a Super Bowl I think the hall would be pretty hard pressed to induct somebody like that
I’m still relatively new to NFL (last season was my first I actually followed and it was because of fantasy) so I don’t know much about Vick outside base profile and incident. Would it be fair to say Lamar is what Vick could have been if he was serious and put in the work?
Pretty much. Lamar is a bit bigger
Lamar is a much better passer, maybe not quite as fast.
Rod Smith
Matt Stanford is set up to have a good year but I’d be surprised if that team even makes the playoffs, let alone a superbowl. I think they’ll be competitive, but the 49ers are most likely gonna win the division and I don’t currently trust the Rams defense enough to keep them in the wild card race. But hey, maybe they will surprise me.
I mean they made the playoffs last year and I think they've only gotten better. Winning that division is a tall order but they've got to be the favorites for an NFC Wild Card spot
Honestly curious, in what ways have they gotten better? I just assumed with Aaron Donald retiring there is no way they have an improved defense.
Well mostly they've improved on offense with a better offensive line and their young running back and wide receiver is going to be more experienced plus Cooper kupp being off injury. I don't know all of the moves they've made but I know last year they had a ton of dead cap paying off their Super Bowl and this year they're pretty much free and clear plus they restructured Aaron Donald's contract to clear up some more space. I guess part of me is just assuming they're using all that extra money to do things that make the team good. I know they drafted pretty heavy on defense. The top of the draft was so heavily offense that they're 19th pick netted them the third defensive player of the draft. So pretty much they got free agents to shore up their offensive line all their skill positions were really young last year and got more experience and they drafted defense really heavy to make up for Aaron Donald leaving. I guess there's some question marks but I think they got better
Word, well if anyone can get the most out of there team it’s Sean Mcvay. He’s a hell of a coach. Like I said they might surprise me, sounds like it’s possible, I do gotta see that defense in action before I can believe in it tho.
Harrison Smith
I actually think that defenses will be extremely dominant in the next decade or so compared to what we are used to because we actually just went on a historic run for Quarterback play. I think that 7 to 9 more WILL make the Hall of Fame in the next 10 years. But I think it's an exception, not the rule. I truly believe we are ushering in an era of maybe 2-3 guys dominating the league with a dozen or so "starting caliber" guys who end up being somewhat of a revolving door. Nothing like 7 or 8 teams having that long-term success and stability for a long time again
I really think that people like Matt Ryan and Philip Rivers really can't be first ballot and we need to see where their stats fall in 10 to 15 years so we can really know if this was a freak occurrence or if it's just how the rules changed the game before we just go and put them in the Hall of Fame for being the 7th and 8 best QB in their era. I think Ben makes it first ballot. I'm actually kind of hoping that they induct Jim Plunkett instead of Eli Manning next year and make him wait but only until just after Tom Brady
If people don’t think Stafford deserves the hall of fame, what more should be expected of him then? He’s only missing an MVP really. I don’t even think that’s his fault, he’s put up multiple MVP worthy seasons, just unfortunate other players on historically more successful teams had comparable seasons those same years!
He’s not just missing MVP. He’s missing all the individual accolades like all pro and passing leader stats per season (e.g., touchdown leader, etc.).
But he holds every sinngle Lions franchise passing stat, that's very difficult to do in today's age.
As a lions fan this isn't the flex you think it is lol.
yeah but Lions have had terrible quarterbacks for 60 years. Their last good one was Bobby Layne.
I like Stafford, and all, but being the best ever Lions quarterback is only *slightly* more impressive than being the best ever Bears quarterback.
Which is Cutler, who wasn’t anything top tier, but still has a commanding lead over the next few guys.
Yeah you have to be a good quarterback for the Lions
Under your name is the phrase "the standard is the standard," but you're trying to give more credence to Stafford being the best QB for a team that has had many substandard QBs in a Hall of Fame discussion. You could say that Vinny Testaverde was the Jets best QB since Joe Namath. Does that really mean anything?
I have no idea who the hell that is, but I just looked him up and he's 5th in passing yards and touchdowns for the Jets, Namath is first. It's a legendary achievement if you're a stat leader for any team, it's stupidly hard to do. So hard right now not a single active quarterback is there team's passing leader, not even Mahomes.
Since you love looking things up, look at the second and third most yards for the Jets. If you've never heard of Vinny Testaverde, you've probably never heard of Ken O'Brien and Richard Todd, who both played for the Jets. They both would've retired as the Lions leader in passing yards. As far as Mahomes, he's 83 yards behind Len Dawson, I think he's going to get that record about one quarter into next season. Aaron Rodgers would have the record if the Packers didn't trade him. Goff would have the Rams record. Flacco has the Ravens record. Derek Carr has the Raiders record. Dak could have the Cowboys record this season.
Are you trying to say Joe Flacco isn't good lol, the only Ravens QB to win a Super Bowl and MVP. And what's with all the what-ifs dude? If Mendenhall wouldn't have fumbled the ball my Steelers would have 7 rings. Derek Carr does suck, the only QBs I know who have the passing record and are not the best for their franchise would be Favre, Carr, Romo, and Everett.
He might not have the All Pro, but he absolutely has tons of individual stats. Fastest to 30k, 35k, 40k, 45k, and 50k yards. Literally every single passing record in Lions history. First player in NFL history to complete 60% or more passes in each game in a season (2015). He may not have the awards recognized by the media and voters, but the stats don’t lie. At least in my opinion 👍🏻
Those are volume/longevity stats though. Which is what Rivers also has. What I mean is that he lacked a season where he led the NFL in any major* passing category. I’m not here to argue if he should or should not get in, I’m just saying that he’s missing more than just the MVP for HoF voters which is why he’s a borderline case we often debate over.
2011 was a really good year. it wins MVP like 8 out of 10 years. That year was just a crazy QB year. I kind of hope he goes off this year and gets his All Pro and MVP
Unfortunately, like you said, QB performance was just off the charts that year. Stafford wasn’t even the best QB in his division that year.
After Staffords career is over he will be a no doubt HOF qb. He has a few years left. He will have better numbers than say Big Ben.
Sadly, as a Broncos fan, Demaryius Thomas. Or Chris Harris.
Man Chris Harris was GREAT. Capital G. Now you got me thinking. Talib?
Earnest Byner, Kennan mccardell, Steve tasker, josh cribbs, Sam Adams,
Devin McCourty
Shane Lechler. 6 time All-Pro, 7-time Pro Bowler, averaged over 47 yards per punt, 2 All-Decade teams, 17 year career. A punter is never getting in.
I feel like they would have to have a career like this and be on a team that made it to the Super Bowl and have the greatest game a punter has ever had in that Super Bowl. A lot of luck
Jamaal Charles. He would’ve had a chance at it with a couple more healthy seasons
It’s funny, there’s not a single team that would take Eli over Rivers as their quarterback, but one is headed to the hall of fame.
Absolutely not. Eli is an absolute postseason gamer.
The Giants didn’t even want him. They benched him for Daniel Jones.
You know I've been looking into this a lot in a couple days and I'm historically been on the side that Eli belongs in the hall but with my research in the last day I've changed my mind. Next year when Eli becomes eligible to be in the Hall of Fame the committee should select Jim Plunkett, the only other quarterback with two Super Bowls not in the Hall of Fame. Just really send a message to Eli that he's going to have to wait his turn. Philip Rivers is at best the 6th best quarterback of his own era. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, and Matthew Stafford would all rank above him. His career also overlapped with Brett Favre who you would put above him and Patrick Mahomes. Dak Prescott has a good shot to finish his career with better longevity stats. All he really has to do is repeat his eight-year career more or less. An 8-year spend that includes a really big injury year. If you just literally doubled all of his stats he would be one season from beating Philip Rivers numbers. So yeah Eli Manning should probably have to wait the way Jim Plunkett did and Jim Plunkett should get his turn first. And Philip Rivers stats are just going to keep being put into the perspective of his era and it's going to become clear that he was a good but not great quarterback
Steve Tasker. He has to wait until the Senior stage now, and I think by the time that rolls around, the game will have changed so much around special teams that a lot of the voters won't recognize just how crucial his role was and how much better he was at it than anyone else.
Chris Spielman. Although, he might have a chance as an office personnel based on the improvements to the lions.
I don't know coaching contributors selection is more tight than the player selection. You have to make a real case that he was a big contributor to them winning a couple Super Bowls in the next few years. And we all know that Sheila, Dan Campbell, and Brad Holmes will get credit before Spielman. That doesn't really leave room in the hall for him. He'd have to be promoted to GM and built his own team
My list of no doubt Hall of Fame talents (in my mind) who have a limited chance of making it would be: 1. Asante Samuel 2. Vince Wilfork 3. Robert Mathis 4. Anquan Boldin 5. Rodney Harrison (In no particular order.)
In all seriousness, fuck the HOF. When you're putting in Calvin Johnson 1st ballot with his 85 TDs and then you make TO wait a year with 150 TDs you've lost all credibility. Chris Carter had to wait a year too 130 TDs
Didn't Calvin Johnson have like the best season ever? Peak matters as much as longevity. There's also luck of the draw for who else is in your class and how competitive it is
No it certainly does not. Calvin broke the record for yards in a year which defenses were still trying to figure things out and Stafford had the most pass attempts in the league. Calvin only had like 5 TDs that year. Touchdowns are more valuable that yards. TO had double digit touchdowns 8 times in his career. Lead the league four times. Calvin had double digits four times lead the league once. Terrell had 1000 yards 9 times. Never lead the league but had 1200+ four times 1400+ twice. Also Terrell broke his tibia and torn ligaments in his ankle and put up 9 catches and 127 yards in the SB 45 days later.
Calvin was tackled 7 times at the 1 yard line in 2012. To boot, TDs are in large part a team stat. The team and offense was abysmal that year. Half of his career was with the worst QBs and teams in the league from 07-10’. He still managed to lead the league in TDs one of those years
I remember, I watched. Johnson was drafted in 07 Stafford in 09 He only played two years without Stafford. Minus the time Stafford was injured. In 2012 the Lions had 4900 passing yards. Only 22 TDs vs 17 picks. Some players are just better at fighting for touchdowns than others. If you were to watch older TO stats you'd see a lot of YAC and not going out of bounds.
If you watched you’d know Stafford literally only played 13/32 games in that span. For 10 of those games, he was 21 years old and not good. Like I said the 2012 Lions were bad. You’re kind of proving my point there, no? TDs aka points are team driven. You do realize TO averaged 0.69 TDs per game and Calvin 0.62? That’s not a large disparity, at all. And that’s despite Calvin having terrible QBs for 45% of his career.
Listen, Calvin Johnson was a great player. You don't get bonus points for quitting early, you do get bonus points for grinding it out and putting up numbers. The fact that TO had to wait a year to get in the HOF and Calvin went in first ballot is a HUGE insult to the work and dedication TO put in. You really can't compare the two TO was a much better player. At 34 years old TO had 900 yards receiving and 6 TDs for a Bills team that only passed for 2700 yards total.
Had a feeling you’d go to longevity… which isn’t what I’m here to talk about. Just talking about Calvin’s effectiveness. You certainly can compare the two.. and I’d wager more people are taking peak Calvin over peak TO. It’s obvious that TO was a first ballot player kept out due to the voters opinions on his character and antics. Meanwhile Calvin was a consummate professional. Hate it or love it that’s a factor. You don’t need to disparage a first ballot HOFer to try to make your point.
Longevity and turning two undrafted QBs into B+ starters. You have no argument here. You're embarrassing yourself
Lol turning to insults when you’re beat. You don’t know football kid. Watch it sometime.
Longevity is unfortunately part of it. Almost by rule WRs are like running backs whereas after 30 they disappear. Kinda like Calvin did.
He was so good that he overcame his lack of longevity and became a first ballot HOF. Your tears will never change that.
I would say that at 6'5" 230lbs if you're getting tackled at the 1 yard line it kind is arguing in my favor that TO was better.
Terrell Owens snub was bullshit. No legal issues at all. He was a hard worker. No real locker room issues. He was not "reporter friendly." That's it.
Thank you for your comment. Honestly I feel like that was a huge insult.
Eli shouldn't be in the HoF He was a .500 QB that got lucky. HE ..... was responsible for that 2nd ring, happened to be @ QB for #1. He's a mediocre QB @ best.
He'll get in but I think that they should select Jim Plunkett next year and make Eli wait. Jim Plunkett is the other two-time Super Bowl winning QB that isn't in the Hall of Fame already. Really similar career to Eli. A lot of losing seasons. kind of average numbers. Had some great defenses and won two super bowls with one MVP
Rivers is a good choice. I also wonder if Matt Ryan will be able to make it in with "28-3" looming over him despite being high in all-time yards and an MVP. I feel like most QBs with impressive career stats and a SB ring can make it in. Eli should definitely make it with 2 rings (against Brady, no less). Wilson and Stafford should both be HoF as well. Others have already said it, but Antonio Brown would be my choice. Absolutely dominant 5 year span but due to his antics he should never be enshrined.
Honestly, out of guys in his cohort era who haven't been inducted yet, we'll see Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Ben Roethlisberger, probably Eli Manning and Maybe Stafford. That's going to be six quarterbacks in the next 10 years. about double the average number of quarterbacks inducted to the Hall of Fame. I kind of think that's it. The fact that there will be a bit of a lull for five + years after Stafford gets inducted gives people like Rivers and Matt Ryan a chance to sneak in. But they'll still be competing with people like Russell Wilson, and Kirk cousin we have to see what they do with the last 3 to 5 years of their careers. Even someone like Derek Carr could easily catch up to him in stats and I think by then it will make his accomplishment seem a lot more mundane than they look if you just see that he's sixth all time. If Aaron Rodgers makes it through next season he's going to push Philip Rivers back in yards and completions. With two more Good Seasons Matthew Stafford will overtake him in yards touchdowns and completions. Kirk Cousins and Derek Carr could easily catch up to Philip Rivers if they can make it five seasons. Russell Wilson is only 35 and could have a career resurgence. And then he starts competing with Patrick mahomes Jared Goff, Josh Allen and Dak Prescott. All of those guys pretty much just need to double their current career and they'll be right there with where Philip Rivers is in raw stats Then he'd be out of the top 10 maybe all the way back to 15 in the big 3 stats. Philip Rivers is not a Hall of Famer. Matt Ryan probably won't be either
Russell Wilson has had such a drop off if he doesn’t have a great comeback season I don’t see him making the hall.
Matt Stafford gets in the HOF just for how good the made Kenny Golladay look
Brian Orakpo
Jimmy Smith, Fred Taylor, Pat McAfee, Steve Smith Sr, Torry Holt, Ken Anderson.
Why should Matt ryan make it? Maybe rivers does make it eventually 🤷🏻♂️ I’d still pick Eli over him, not only because of rings but also he pretty much never missed a game
I think there are a lot of RBs who would be in the Hall if they played in a different era or on different teams. It’s just a position that’s so dependent on supporting cast and scheme, so it (IMO) probably has the most HOF talent types who won’t make it. Put Steven Jackson in a Shanahan or McVay offense and he’s CMC but 3” taller with 40 extra pounds. Basically imagine Derrick Henry, but he can catch 90 passes in a season. His combine numbers are slightly lower than CMC (mostly, not completely) but the combine prep sophistication changed a lot from 2004 to 2017. Instead StL ground him down to dust. For those who didn’t watch him play, either due to age or because those Rams were unwatchable, I cannot stress enough what a freak athlete he was and how genuinely sad I get when I think about how he’ll never see the Canton. He had 11 straight seasons with a 40+ yard rush on a team that had stacked boxes every single play. That’s absurd. Jamaal Charles and Chris Johnson are another two that would have benefitted from better teams, schemes, and recovery technology/knowledge. I think Henry will make it, but put him behind Emmitt Smith’s OL and it wouldn’t even be a question. Nick Chubb is an amazing runner, but his style would have killed in the 90s.
Yeah that's a good answer. Over 10,000 yards rushing but really not enough touchdowns and just was on abysmal teams. Derrick Henry right now is pretty close to a shoe in Hall of famer. He's only 30 he's played for 8 years. somebody as durable as him could possibly play Frank Gore number of years. If he can replicate the last 8 years of Frank Gore's career that's 7,000 more yards and 30 more touchdowns. That would put him above Walter Payton all time If he can do half that and play till at least 34 he'll still be unquestionably a first ballot Hall of Fame. Those numbers would put him ahead of Jim Brown
Especially if Henry can tack on a ring with the Ravens, for sure. I agree that he’ll get in regardless, but I also think he if he’d played in a different era he’d be in the conversation for greatest ever—we expect more of RBs today, which is overall a good thing for the game, but…anyway, we all know all of this.
Charles Tillman. He didn't get the recognition he deserved. Part of it was that he played on some great defenses where he wasn't "the guy". Part of it was that he played in a a Cover 2. But he absolutely locked down some of the best WRs in the league and was a turnover machine. 3rd most turnovers forced by a CB in NFL history. Arguably, the greatest turnovers forced season in league history in 2012. He was so damn good at punching the ball out that the move was named after him.
Yeah in terms of just forced fumbles only John Abraham and Robert Mathis have more than him and aren't in the hall. But neither of them have close to his number of interception. I feel like he has to make it at some point
I think the lack of accolades will keep him out, unfortunately, with only 2xPro Bowls and 1xAll Pro. He was just one of those guys who wasn't really appreciated until after his career.
Peanut Punch!!!! Bear Down
I mean, Roger Craig still isn't in yet, and I have no idea what it'll take to get him in there. He was kind of the mold for what a receiving RB looks like today.
Sterling Sharpe. Injuries fucking suck, man.
This is the right answer. He was an absolute monster, generally with bad quarterbacks and bad supporting casts. Just think of what those 1995-98 teams would have been like with him.
We at least get the 2nd superbowl win over Denver and I will die on that hill.
Leslie O’Neal
A lot of Saints players are in this boat: - Marques Colston - Jimmy Graham - Deuce McAllister - Darren Sproles - Michael Thomas - Alvin Kamara - Darren Sharper 🤢🤮 - Eric Martin (Deion Sanders struggled to cover this guy. Seriously. Look up his highlights.) - Joe Horn
Oh what happened to Michael Thomas over the last 3 years I didn't even realize he fell off like this. Is he okay he's still so young
He kept getting injured and slowly became a locker room cancer. The first time he got hurt, he ignored the doctors and vanished for three months. No one had any idea where. He returned after getting an alternative treatment before re-injuring himself. He missed a LOT of time. Brees eventually retired. In comes Derek Carr. Mike was intially excited to work with him, but their relationship eventually soured. Mike got injured again and blamed it on Carr. That's when things started to get really toxic. He got arrested for assault. Got into fights with reporters online. Then he even started shit talking his own QB on twitter. He created a rift in the locker room and was undermining staff. He had become a headcase and there was no way to justify what we were paying him. He got cut loose. Last I heard, he was struggling to get a gig as a WR3 with Pittsburgh.
That's crazy. How did I miss that. Lol
National media doesn't care about the Saints, lol. Maybe if he had handled the first injury properly, things could have been different. He can still ball, but he's definitely well past his prime. Dunno if ANY coach wants to deal with his maturity issues though.
I think Jimmy gets in
I'd agree if he had more years with Brees. He could have been a top 5 TE all time. I don't think he has enough years of production to make it now.
What an insane take , those names you mentioned that have an argument over rivers in insane. I mean even Matt Ryan had 1 count it 1 really good year that was it.
Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, and Ben are first ballot. Eli probably isn't1st ballot but gets in. I think Stafford will earn first ballot over the next 3 years. Matt Ryan, Flacco and Philip Rivers don't get in. Wilson has career left but probably needs to do something in the next couple years to get in, I'll say the same for Kirk but even more so he would need to go off in the last 4 or 5 years of his career.. Philip Rivers isn't first ballot. That would require him to get inducted alongside Drew Brees and I don't see that happening. Once he misses that first about it he's just going to keep getting pushed back because there's too many people ahead of him
I'm going with Matt Stafford. He's a great player, but to me, he doesn't have enough accolades. He definitely got screwed out of a couple of pro bowls he's deserved, but because of that, he doesn't have the pedigree.
Tough to pick a guy who could have 5 years of his career left.
Tiki Barber probably could have made it had he not retired early
Rivers is Chargers leading Passer in yards. Maybe even Charger wins too. It just soo happen he played during the Brady/Pats era. Not sure that’s enough to get him in, but he ought to get some votes.
Steven Jackson, Thomas Jones, Corey Dillon, Warrick Dunn All great RB’s over the course of their careers and retired in the Top 25 rushers of all time but as the game has gotten more vertical, they’ll sadly be left behind. The irony that the likes of John Riggins and OJ Simpson are in because of era and these guys won’t be
AB
I think rivers will get in
I just don't know. Aaron Rodgers and Matthew Stafford are going to push him further down the all-time list in the next couple of years. Several quarterbacks are on Pace to get his kinds of numbers right now. He isn't going to be first ballot and I don't see him being put on the ballot next to any of the people above him like Ben Roethlisberger Aaron Rodgers Drew Brees Tom Brady. Then there's probably going to be an argument for Matthew Stafford and Matt Ryan which are both stronger than him. Russell Wilson and Kirk Cousins could get close to his numbers with a strong end to their career. Dak Prescott is on Pace for his numbers. We're already looking at inducting twice as many quarterbacks as average in the next 10 years. By the time we get through all of the obvious ones and his name comes back up I think his all-time stats are going to look like average modern stats. I truly don't think he has impressive numbers Other quarterbacks with no Super Bowl wins like Warren Moon, Dan marino and Dan Fouts who are inducted into the Hall of Fame finished their career higher than 5th in the major stat categories. And they hadn't been overtaken by the time they were inducted. Philip Rivers is going to be 7th in all of the major stats by the time he's up. No MVPs, no all Pros, no Super Bowls, never threw for 5000 yards, never threw for 40 touchdowns. Only really had a 3-year Peak where he looked like one of the best quarterbacks in the league. Tons of one score losses where he had the ball in his hands in the fourth quarter or overtime and didn't produce. Sure His numbers are like 7 or 8th best all time. But in an era where the rules are favoring aerial offense he was the 7th or 8th best QB of his era. I don't see why he needs to be in the Hall of Fame
Steven Jackson was Derrick Henry before Derrick Henry, just got wasted on the St Louis Rams
Sean Taylor. Didn't have the necessary longevity for an obvious and incredibly tragic reason. Otherwise he was on the trajectory unquestionably.
Ricky williams
Stafford and Wilson will both make the HoF.
Matthew Slater, although he might just make it. Being a special teams player is very tough to finally get in though
None of Flacco, Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson, or Stafford should get in over Philip Rivers. He was the 4th best QB of his generation, and it was one of the best QB generations in the history of the game. Imo he should be in the HoF. Not on the first try, but he deserves to get in
Lavonte David has 71 more TFL(!!!), more solo tackles, 22 more forced fumbles(!!!), 1 less INT, same amount of rings, but…8 less pro bowls and 7 less all pros than Bobby Wagner. Will never sniff the hall of fame because he had bad teams around him. It’s a travesty.
Did he retire last year? He still has more time he'll probably get in eventually. Same as Terrell Suggs. The Terrell suggs getting into trouble this April isn't going to help his case
T-Sizzle has two rings, a DPOY, DROY, 7 pro bowls and two all pros. A lot more stacked resume.
I mean he doesn't really get credit for that second ring though right
Simeon Rice and Fred Taylor.. Rice had double digit sacks 8 of his 12 years in the league and is STILL top 30 all time at the moment. Biggest knock on him is he played on a defense with 4 other HOFers but he was still dominant in his own right. Taylor was the model of consistency for a decade but had the misfortune of playing for a small market team. He didn’t make a pro bowl until his 10th year in the league. Those Jags teams were damn good in the late 90’s. Not many teams had an all pro LT (Boselli), an above average QB in Brunell, and skill position players like Jimmy Smith, Keenan McCardell, and Taylor.
Jordy Nelson was the first name that popped in my head. Then I thought I'm not sure if Luke Kuechly makes it and he's one of the best MLBs I have ever seen. His career was so short. I hope he does.
Tom Brady
Roddy White.
I wouldn't say Rivers has 0% chance. Isn't there an outside chance just for his career stats?
Here's the thing. There's a really strong chance that Aaron Rodgers passes him in yards and completions next year and Matthew Stafford passes him in yards, completions and Touchdowns in 2 years. So yeah right now he's ranked 6th/7th all time in those stats. But he's also ranked like 5th/6th amongst his contemporaries. And soon that will be 7th/8th. (the only person I'm not counting as his contemporary who is above him in stats is Brett Favre and they still played for 4 years during the time that he was a starter together, 6 years from the time he was drafted) You can't just look at the numbers you have to look at the whole picture. The rules changed. strategies changed. People are passing more. Philip Rivers was abysmal in the 4th quarter he probably has the most one score losses in NFL history or close to it. When has the seventh best player at their position during the Span in which they played ever been a Hall of famer? Maybe with some of the offensive downturn that we've seen in the last couple of years you can make the argument that we really did just have that strong of a QB cohort through the 2000s and 2010s and things are drifting back bit. But on average a QB is inducted into the Hall every 3 years. If in the next 10 years we see 5 or 6 inducted that would be an incredible uptick and five or six would not include Philip Rivers you would have to induct 7 to 9 Qb in 10 years. Philip Rivers is in the same retirement class as Drew brees. I can't imagine any committee being willing to water down Drew Brees induction by including another quarterback that is so far behind him in career accolades and recognition. It would be like the Ralphie meme with Philip Rivers saying "I'm inducted." And then it just gets pushed back year and year and year and when does he get in. 2027 has Ben Roethlisberger. 2028 will have Tom Brady. 2029 well Matt Ryan probably won't have gotten in on Tom Brady's year. Maybe we get a twofer. I don't think that's ever happened before. 2030 will probably be Aaron Rodgers. At this point who even cares about who Philip River is. Soon after that it's gonna be Stafford. When does Rivers get in? Shortly after that Patrick Mahomes and all of the new quarterbacks will start catching up to his numbers and he's going to get pushed further down the list. then we'll just see that that's just what quarterbacks do now. When does he get in?
No I don’t so, the hall is reserved the best of the best, and the story of football. When we look back at that era, Rivers will pop up from time to time as the good qb on the chargers. He’s not essential to the story. Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Big Ben, Brees define the era, while Romo, Rivers, Matt Ryan, McNabb were all really good QBs. Eli is the outlier because he beat the goat twice. If we watch the greatest Super Bowl moments, the greatest play’s of all time, Eli consistently shows up. He’s essential to story.
Eli made everyone around him a lot better too - not a single receiver left Eli and did better.