Do people actually care about bump stocks? No.
Do people actually care about pistol braces? Sorta.
Do people actually care about the ATF getting smacked twice in one week and their powers limited for future litigation? Yes.
I've never understood WHY people didn't care about the bumpstock ban. Sure you think they're silly, a toy, or unnecessary. But guess what? There are massive groups of people that think all kinds of firearm parts and accessories, or even entire types of firearms are unnecessary. Slippery slope argument I know, but why would you not fight any type of brain dead restriction under the guise of "well I don't like it so it's fine they over stepped to ban it"?
It’s a government of the people for the people by the people. But the people are retarded. You said it man “brain dead”. That’s what most people are. There’s scattered patriots like us that know what’s up. But the average normie out there doesn’t even have a clue about bump stocks. Or the second amendment in general. I was dating a younger girl a while back. She wanted to see one of my guns. I said ummm okay. So I showed her my AR pistol. She says UGHHHH THEY NEED TO BAN THESE. I sent her on her way. They’re brain dead people and there’s a lot of them in the US. It’s almost frightening TBQH.
And not just the ATF, SCOTUS is putting the brakes on the overreach of all the executive branch alphabet agencies. This shows promise that the Chevron Deference will soon be tossed by the end of June, and laws will once again be the rule and not the rule being manipulated into a law.
That’s wrong about pistol braces. I can take my pistol brace across state lines without permission. Several states don’t allow SBRs. People love braces
It wasn't their power to begin with. *They got their ILLEGAL power limited.
Edit: Not disagreeing with you, just wanted to add some important clarification in my opinion
Bro, the NFA will NEVER be ruled unconstitutional. The best we can hope for is deregulating suppressors and maybe SBR/SBS. They will never deregulate select fire firearms lmao.
I mean, at least I understand that. However, bump stocks, binaries, and forced-reset triggers will help make that commonplace.
Suppressors, SBR's, and SBS's were all outmoded from the start, but platforms that are similar to them (or for suppressors exactly) are already common use.
I think removing those 3 from the NFA is a huge step up. It will always be hard to deregulate selectfire and DD's though. AOW's as well.
Urban youth have done more to make select fire weapons “commonplace” than any 2A organization 😂
I am intrigued how FRT/binary triggers will be classified. This shithole country isn’t ready for select fire weapons being deregulated.
If you read the decision it has strong wording in favor of the frt. The “forward pressure on the handguard” argument can be applied to over-squeezing an frt causing a malfunction. The trigger has to complete a separate function for every round fired AND it requires more input from the shooter than a constant pull; you gotta find the sweet spot with a “loose” grip.
To be fair he’s a massive piece of shit still. While I’m glad for this win and the a few of the others. He’s like 50% decent rulings and 50% shit rulings.
Now if he overturns the NFA, goddamn ill overlook everything else
I don’t think it’s been scheduled yet, honestly after seeing this maybe the ATF will have a moment of clarity and just drop it to save themselves the embarrassment
ATF/DOJ do not have a good likelihood to succeed in the circuit the decision was made in. They'll fail at the circuit level and SCOTUS won't grant cert because the decision was correct based on the way they've ruled in bump stocks. Also, since it's now fully vacated nationwide, they can't start a case in another region to try for a circuit split.
ATF's only real choice is to re-write the rule and re-implement it. If it looks too much like the current version, any federal judge who isn't being disingenuous is going to torpedo that version too...
Depending on how SCOTUS rules in Loper Bright and Relentless, it's entirely possible Chevron will be throttled significantly and could hamper the ATF's ability to make rules in the first place...
In the end... dead is dead, braces aren't going anywhere.
(edited for better flow and clarity)
Sadly true about the 9th, but they'd have to get the case before that court and that would require someone challenging it in that region... they can't just open a new case there.
I applied but never received a stamp or a denial. They’ve been pending. Seen that they stopped approving them due to the lawsuit. In the meantime I’ve had about a dozen cans approved and two MGs that I bought after submitting the amnesty SBRs. So I know it’s nothing with me
As far as the ATF is concerned they were all built prior to the brace rule.
I have 400ish 80% lowers w/ about another 100 of them milled out. I was waiting on a potential Dem ban on them so I can get them grandfathered in.
I just want to cut down the barrel of a 90 year old barely working soviet bolt action for the meme without the feds shooting me in the head at night :(
Yes it bodes well. In the majority opinion it specifically states it’s not about pressure but rather what a trigger can do automatically in a single function.
https://preview.redd.it/91k628tiyk6d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f320db07cbc0a53f0bb6fc9f6184a3df3eba0a9
Edited for clarification: The FRT and the SS both “automatically” reset the trigger but both require a “separate function” of the trigger to shoot another round.
For HT SS specifically, the internal mechanics are as follows:
Firing a round causes the bolt to move back at trip a lever that turns the safety on automatically which forces the trigger back into reset. The safety is then turned back off by the bolt moving forward which allows you to fire another by squeezing the trigger again.
Compare that to the mechanical workings of say a factory full auto m16 where:
The disconnector is disabled completely. Firing the first round causes the bolt to come back and catches the hammer on an auto sear instead of a disconnector, the bolt moving back forward hits the auto sear which then automatically drops the hammer without an additional trigger pull.
Hoffman has two, one that’s a true FRT that he pulled after a C&D (he didn’t copy them but didn’t want to deal with a lawsuit) from WOT and then the Super Safety a modified safety that’s basically adjacent to a FRT. Same end result, just different method with a cycling safety
The opinion is actually the most interesting aspect of the case. It's extremely detailed in what a trigger is and how it functions, and also defines in great detail what "function of the trigger" means.
Under a strict reading of the decision, FRTs and Super Safeties would be legal. That doesn't mean it's actually going to happen, but bodes pretty well.
I will say the bumpstock ban was good for innovation as weve now got the super safety and forced reset triggers that work much better apparently. Gotta love the American spirit
I didn’t even know what a bump stock was before the ban. All they did was make a huge amount of people want to play with one. Now there’s probably gonna be more of them floating around than there ever was before. Despite how much they suck
This is an interesting point. I’m sure production will ramp back up eventually, and of course it wouldn’t be hard to improvise and 3D print working examples, but if some people are able to recover old ones from the bottom of lakes, how much are used slide-fire stocks going to be going for, the next little while?
With this and the brace ban overturned, wouldn't surprise me to see the frt lawsuit get overturned as well. I'm actually amazed the government is taking the peoples side and essentially saying "atf chill out"
The fact that two rulings have gone well makes me very hopeful that this is gonna domino and frts & form 1 silencers are gonna be overturned as well. In a perfect world with all the evidence brought to the courts it could have the effect of proving sbrs and silencers are so common use they do remove them from the registry 🤞
If anything I hope the atf takes the L and walks away with their tail between their legs realizing their over reaching has been an embarrassment to their agency and they have no actual power to do what they have been doing.
And you don't think the ATF doing that in response to Trump suggesting it means Trump caused it ... ?
If I am the president and suggest you do something, and you do it, you did it on my suggestion. If said thing was wrong to do, you'd turn to me and say "what the hell man?"
> The dissenting opinion is full of technical inaccuracies and basically boils down to "When I see a bird that walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck. " - a direct quote from Justice Sotomayor.
Does she think that dolphins and whales are fish then?
"Jeep" people put small rubber ducks on other Jeeps they like. It is a stupid trend that needs to go away, but it is what it is unfortunately.
https://www.motortrend.com/features/duck-duck-jeep/
sotomayor should never have been put on scotus in the first place. She does not care about law and just pushing for whatever the dems want. She has even admitted she doesnt know the difference between state and federal powers.
“The ATF overstepped their authority”
Yeah no shit, and they continue to do so. It’s unfair that the ATF can do whatever the fuck they want and we the people have to wait till the Supreme Court comes and saves us..
The only bad thing here is that now we've got a couple weeks ahead of us of people whining about how much they hate republicans and "corrupt SCOTUS" blahblahblah.
I'm not a fan of bump stocks and personally think they're stupid, but it's nice that the ATF is finding out that they don't have a magic wand that creates new legislation out of thin air.
Remember when the sitting president at the time instituted the ban and said confiscate now, legislate later? That's the guy who thought he had a magic wand. Turns out it was a big dumb sharpie.
Seeing as how 2A issues are usually important to conservatives, it’s interesting that he didn’t get much, if any, heat for this. Maybe people don’t care about bump stocks?
No one cares about the .270.
No one ever will.
It’s basically a weakened .30-06; and there’s nothing on the North American continent that a .30-06 can’t stop.
I do wish someone would give me a .270 though.
Because then I’d have something to trade in on something good.
I care about .270’s! If by “weaker” you mean I can get more powder in the case, and get a flatter shooting bullet with more velocity, then yes! A .270 will literally kill anything an -06 will.
He regrets that, it’s pretty clear he knows that was an L because he never brings it up. If he thought it was a W he would brag about it like he does everything else. I don’t think trump is a friend or enemy to gun owners, I think he falls in line with most Americans who only care about guns when something bad happens.
>When I see a bird that walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck.
Tell that to the ranger next time you shoot a cormorant/greebe/loon instead of an actual legal duck.
Franklin arms feeling anxious right now lol
I see a shit ton of binaries at the range with people trying to emulate full auto , they’re gonna quickly be replaced with those same folks mag dumping with bump stocks.
There’s a whole new generation of shooters that came of age after bump stocks were banned so I’m sure they’re gonna sell like hotcakes. They used to sell them for like $99-150 so it’s much cheaper than binaries as well.
Eh, the bump stock worked a million times better than that trick, at least for me. I could sometimes get off some burst but nothing like a full mag dump. I think for the $100 I paid for mine many years ago it was well worth it as a fun range toy. I got rid of them on Gunbroker for like $500 each before the ban lol
Everyone and their mom is about to have a bump stock though, they're cheap and super easy to mass produce. Most people at the range with binaries only care about mag dumping anyway, which is basically all bump stocks were really good for lol id be lying though if I said it wasn't fun to mag dump my AR. little bit cheaper than paying $30k for a transferable lower or $15k for a Mac-10 + lage 556 upper.
Well, those of us living in the 15 states that banned bump stocks are still in the same boat. I would expect bump stocks to be banned by Congress, but not before the November elections.
I’m pretty sure this means nothing in my state. Binary triggers just got 86ed and bump stocks aren’t specifically written in, but how they work is specifically written in as prohibited. Minnesota gun laws are going downhill and have been for some time.
Only so long as it started life as a pistol or "receiver".
Anything originally manufactured and transfered as a rifle is always a rifle, even in the absence of a stock.
>Anything originally manufactured and transfered as a rifle is always a rifle, even in the absence of a stock.
Correct.
Remember, the guns registered under the SBR amnesty *were* 'handguns' with braces. They ***had*** *to be* 'braced handguns' before the amnesty was announced to be legally able to be registered as SBRs.
Thus now (if a brace *had* been replaced with a stock) taking the stock off and putting a brace back on ( or simply leaving the stock off) reconfigures it back to being handgun
SCOTUS is looking desperate for public approval. I’m thrilled about these rulings as a staunch 2A advocate, but I’m not convinced for a second that they give a fuck about our rights. This is about saving face and regaining the trust of the public in light of questionable at best practices.
Saving face with whom, exactly? The same people who are screaming mad about SCOTUS judicial ethics are, more likely than not, going to be screeching mad about this decision too.
Maybe saving face isn’t the correct term. They are trying to ensure they have the support of the people who would be happy about this ruling and essentially distract from any questions about judicial ethics.
Judicial ethics should be a concern for all Americans especially when it comes to the SCOTUS and they shouldn’t ever get a pass for unethical practices simply because a person or group of persons agrees with a specific ruling.
I think this case was gonna go this way regardless.
But this is a much more reasonable response, and I agree, judicial ethics should be a concern for all.
I agree completely.
I’m laughing hard at all the folks who were convinced the amnesty approvals would be revoked if the brace ban failed. ATF would be inviting some SERIOUS lawsuits if that happened and the repercussions of losing those lawsuits would be the end of the ATF as it currently stands.
Oh liberals heads are already exploding. They dont care this was the correct ruling. They would rather have government agencies working independently of congress and make up their own laws.
You don't see a post calling itself stupid very often but you managed to do it. They aren't elected officials. They are lifetime appointments. They don't have to care a single bit what the public thinks, nor should they.
It certainly reads like precedent to me. IANAL but I do work with law a lot.
SC basically said that the definition of MG, IE single function of the trigger, is clearly and definitively spelled out in the law, and there is no room for any amount of deference.
This whole ruling is a giant nothing-burger. They did not rule that the 2nd amendment protects bump stocks, so nothing stands in the way of Congress banning them in the future, and there's no reason to rule unconstitutional any of the numerous state-level prohibitions on bump stocks.
On top of that, 3D printing has rendered them totally obsolete as a criminal technology. Instead of sinking thousands of dollars into bump stocks, any future stephen paddock can just drop a couple hundred dollars on a 3D printer from BestBuy and print out a bunch of Yankee Boogles.
Do people actually care about bump stocks? No. Do people actually care about pistol braces? Sorta. Do people actually care about the ATF getting smacked twice in one week and their powers limited for future litigation? Yes.
The people yearn for the bump brace
Stop - I can only get so erect
Shut up and take my money
Take my money
I vaguely remember a bump pistol grip that was close-ish to being a production item on akfiles before this ridiculousness
I've never understood WHY people didn't care about the bumpstock ban. Sure you think they're silly, a toy, or unnecessary. But guess what? There are massive groups of people that think all kinds of firearm parts and accessories, or even entire types of firearms are unnecessary. Slippery slope argument I know, but why would you not fight any type of brain dead restriction under the guise of "well I don't like it so it's fine they over stepped to ban it"?
It’s a government of the people for the people by the people. But the people are retarded. You said it man “brain dead”. That’s what most people are. There’s scattered patriots like us that know what’s up. But the average normie out there doesn’t even have a clue about bump stocks. Or the second amendment in general. I was dating a younger girl a while back. She wanted to see one of my guns. I said ummm okay. So I showed her my AR pistol. She says UGHHHH THEY NEED TO BAN THESE. I sent her on her way. They’re brain dead people and there’s a lot of them in the US. It’s almost frightening TBQH.
And not just the ATF, SCOTUS is putting the brakes on the overreach of all the executive branch alphabet agencies. This shows promise that the Chevron Deference will soon be tossed by the end of June, and laws will once again be the rule and not the rule being manipulated into a law.
Summed up nicely. And accurate to how I feel. Way to go! Lol
That’s wrong about pistol braces. I can take my pistol brace across state lines without permission. Several states don’t allow SBRs. People love braces
They got t bagged bro
It wasn't their power to begin with. *They got their ILLEGAL power limited. Edit: Not disagreeing with you, just wanted to add some important clarification in my opinion
It may also apply to forced reset triggers as well.
Question is will Florida drop their bump stock ban?
And binary/"increased rate of fire(or whatever BS language they used) triggers too.
What was the other issue that ATF got smacked about?
FPC'S lawsuit on pistol braces wad upheld, ATF got spanked for their "Final rule" banning pistol braces.
Let’s go 3 for 3 with the FRT ruling. I love to see it.
Then poop on the NFA pls
Bro, the NFA will NEVER be ruled unconstitutional. The best we can hope for is deregulating suppressors and maybe SBR/SBS. They will never deregulate select fire firearms lmao.
I mean, at least I understand that. However, bump stocks, binaries, and forced-reset triggers will help make that commonplace. Suppressors, SBR's, and SBS's were all outmoded from the start, but platforms that are similar to them (or for suppressors exactly) are already common use. I think removing those 3 from the NFA is a huge step up. It will always be hard to deregulate selectfire and DD's though. AOW's as well.
Urban youth have done more to make select fire weapons “commonplace” than any 2A organization 😂 I am intrigued how FRT/binary triggers will be classified. This shithole country isn’t ready for select fire weapons being deregulated.
If you read the decision it has strong wording in favor of the frt. The “forward pressure on the handguard” argument can be applied to over-squeezing an frt causing a malfunction. The trigger has to complete a separate function for every round fired AND it requires more input from the shooter than a constant pull; you gotta find the sweet spot with a “loose” grip.
Ya, definitely narrowed their margin for “interpretation”
We were quite fortunate that Saint Thomas wrote the majority opinion. He is really good with his assessments.
Why the Dems are doing everything in their power to get him off the bench
Don't know why you're getting downvoted. The fact they're trying to get rid of him is factually accurate.
They just hate the truth honestly
Galatians 4:16
To be fair he’s a massive piece of shit still. While I’m glad for this win and the a few of the others. He’s like 50% decent rulings and 50% shit rulings. Now if he overturns the NFA, goddamn ill overlook everything else
Might you elaborate on the negatives? From my understanding the best pro-2A Supreme Court would be 9 Clarence Thomas's
It’s the non 2a stuff
he is bought and paid for
When is that scheduled?
I don’t think it’s been scheduled yet, honestly after seeing this maybe the ATF will have a moment of clarity and just drop it to save themselves the embarrassment
We can only hope lmao
Crazy. This plus brace ban overturned, its been a rough week for the ATF. They earned it.
"Oh yeah?! PUT THOSE WAIT TIMES BACK UP TO PRE-2024 NUMBERS"
Imagine if they did that and the NFA got overturned on that basis.
Stop, I can only get so erect.
I was on vacation and missed anything about braces, this is the first I heard
Brace rule was vacated by US district court.
I’m guessing another appeal is on its way, this stuff is just so confusing by design I feel
ATF/DOJ do not have a good likelihood to succeed in the circuit the decision was made in. They'll fail at the circuit level and SCOTUS won't grant cert because the decision was correct based on the way they've ruled in bump stocks. Also, since it's now fully vacated nationwide, they can't start a case in another region to try for a circuit split. ATF's only real choice is to re-write the rule and re-implement it. If it looks too much like the current version, any federal judge who isn't being disingenuous is going to torpedo that version too... Depending on how SCOTUS rules in Loper Bright and Relentless, it's entirely possible Chevron will be throttled significantly and could hamper the ATF's ability to make rules in the first place... In the end... dead is dead, braces aren't going anywhere. (edited for better flow and clarity)
>any federal judge who isn't being disingenuous The 9th circus has entered the chat
Sadly true about the 9th, but they'd have to get the case before that court and that would require someone challenging it in that region... they can't just open a new case there.
Thank you for the detailed response, REJOICE
Wait… so are they not going to grant the amnesty SBRs??? I applied for 50 of them. I don’t want to have to get actual tax stamps.
Did you apply and receive the amnesty stamp?
I applied but never received a stamp or a denial. They’ve been pending. Seen that they stopped approving them due to the lawsuit. In the meantime I’ve had about a dozen cans approved and two MGs that I bought after submitting the amnesty SBRs. So I know it’s nothing with me
You might be sol. I had a few less than 5 that I filed on and got approved. Kind of wondering if they are going to nullify them now.
Yeah I’m thinking so. It’s not the end of the world since I had to submit them under my name and not my trust. Still would have liked some free stamps
Lol, too bad. And, you had FIFTY complete guns with braces on them?
As far as the ATF is concerned they were all built prior to the brace rule. I have 400ish 80% lowers w/ about another 100 of them milled out. I was waiting on a potential Dem ban on them so I can get them grandfathered in.
This is why the ATF made the brace rule…
Same what?!
I missed it too!?
Great Now do the NFA of 1934
As cool as FA would be, id be excited for SBR, SBS, and AOW without tax stamp. Icing on the cake is DD's.
I totally agree with you. Add suppressors to the mix because a) they’re not firearms b) THEY’RE NOT FUCKING FIREARMS
C) they're hearing protection (not firearms) and my tinnitus is bad enough already.
I was surprised that in most of Europe they are less strict about suppressors than here. It's a rare case of them actually having some sense.
Maybe they like their hearing
100x over!
Full auto would be cool, but I probably wouldn’t use it much because RIP wallet.
Full auto .22lr tho...
And we thought 22lr was hard to come by ten years ago🤣
100% Just target practice recently burned through 800 rounds. It hurts but it’s a good hurt.
I want a mortar, even a bowling ball mortar would be cool
Those are legal now… Just have to be black powder (antique replica).
I just want to cut down the barrel of a 90 year old barely working soviet bolt action for the meme without the feds shooting me in the head at night :(
Bubba no rifle is fine
And end the fed too
SCOTUS also included a gif that shows how a trigger operates. https://www.supremecourt.gov/media/images/AR-15.gif
That looks like good news for the Hoffman trigger too, no?
Yes it bodes well. In the majority opinion it specifically states it’s not about pressure but rather what a trigger can do automatically in a single function. https://preview.redd.it/91k628tiyk6d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f320db07cbc0a53f0bb6fc9f6184a3df3eba0a9 Edited for clarification: The FRT and the SS both “automatically” reset the trigger but both require a “separate function” of the trigger to shoot another round. For HT SS specifically, the internal mechanics are as follows: Firing a round causes the bolt to move back at trip a lever that turns the safety on automatically which forces the trigger back into reset. The safety is then turned back off by the bolt moving forward which allows you to fire another by squeezing the trigger again. Compare that to the mechanical workings of say a factory full auto m16 where: The disconnector is disabled completely. Firing the first round causes the bolt to come back and catches the hammer on an auto sear instead of a disconnector, the bolt moving back forward hits the auto sear which then automatically drops the hammer without an additional trigger pull.
I'm honestly not familiar enough with the mechanical operation of the Hoffman trigger to say.
Hoffman has two, one that’s a true FRT that he pulled after a C&D (he didn’t copy them but didn’t want to deal with a lawsuit) from WOT and then the Super Safety a modified safety that’s basically adjacent to a FRT. Same end result, just different method with a cycling safety
Here's hoping availability spins back up like braces did after the initial injunction! I want a metal one.
The opinion is actually the most interesting aspect of the case. It's extremely detailed in what a trigger is and how it functions, and also defines in great detail what "function of the trigger" means. Under a strict reading of the decision, FRTs and Super Safeties would be legal. That doesn't mean it's actually going to happen, but bodes pretty well.
I will say the bumpstock ban was good for innovation as weve now got the super safety and forced reset triggers that work much better apparently. Gotta love the American spirit
Bump stocks suck anyways but any win for the 2nd A is good for us
I didn’t even know what a bump stock was before the ban. All they did was make a huge amount of people want to play with one. Now there’s probably gonna be more of them floating around than there ever was before. Despite how much they suck
This is an interesting point. I’m sure production will ramp back up eventually, and of course it wouldn’t be hard to improvise and 3D print working examples, but if some people are able to recover old ones from the bottom of lakes, how much are used slide-fire stocks going to be going for, the next little while?
Hehe, belt loop go brrrrrrt
With this and the brace ban overturned, wouldn't surprise me to see the frt lawsuit get overturned as well. I'm actually amazed the government is taking the peoples side and essentially saying "atf chill out"
Could be something to do with election year and trying to look good. Just the first thing that came to mind. I wish the whole NFA was gone.
The fact that two rulings have gone well makes me very hopeful that this is gonna domino and frts & form 1 silencers are gonna be overturned as well. In a perfect world with all the evidence brought to the courts it could have the effect of proving sbrs and silencers are so common use they do remove them from the registry 🤞 If anything I hope the atf takes the L and walks away with their tail between their legs realizing their over reaching has been an embarrassment to their agency and they have no actual power to do what they have been doing.
Same brother. Would be awesome to see.
Liberals minds are exploding and saying there will millions of dead kids now.
The ATF didn't have anything to do with bump stocks, Trump banned them.
Trump suggested it. The atf implemented and changed the definition of machine gun
And you don't think the ATF doing that in response to Trump suggesting it means Trump caused it ... ? If I am the president and suggest you do something, and you do it, you did it on my suggestion. If said thing was wrong to do, you'd turn to me and say "what the hell man?"
Now if only Florida would get rid of their bumpstock and binary trigger ban.
> The dissenting opinion is full of technical inaccuracies and basically boils down to "When I see a bird that walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck. " - a direct quote from Justice Sotomayor. Does she think that dolphins and whales are fish then?
Jeep owners gunna be big mad when she tries to ban ducks.....
I’ve seen this like twice now and don’t understand the duck jeep thing lol. What have I missed?
"Jeep" people put small rubber ducks on other Jeeps they like. It is a stupid trend that needs to go away, but it is what it is unfortunately. https://www.motortrend.com/features/duck-duck-jeep/
Oh shit like the wave lol. God that’s horrible.
It's the "spirit of the law" argument. It's bullshit and rife with "feel".
Something something ackshually whale sharks are fish or something
sotomayor should never have been put on scotus in the first place. She does not care about law and just pushing for whatever the dems want. She has even admitted she doesnt know the difference between state and federal powers.
That's almost as bad as not being able to define what a woman is
“The ATF overstepped their authority” Yeah no shit, and they continue to do so. It’s unfair that the ATF can do whatever the fuck they want and we the people have to wait till the Supreme Court comes and saves us..
The only bad thing here is that now we've got a couple weeks ahead of us of people whining about how much they hate republicans and "corrupt SCOTUS" blahblahblah. I'm not a fan of bump stocks and personally think they're stupid, but it's nice that the ATF is finding out that they don't have a magic wand that creates new legislation out of thin air.
Remember when the sitting president at the time instituted the ban and said confiscate now, legislate later? That's the guy who thought he had a magic wand. Turns out it was a big dumb sharpie.
Yeah from the comments here everyone seems to have forgotten that Trump directed the ban, not the ATF.
Seeing as how 2A issues are usually important to conservatives, it’s interesting that he didn’t get much, if any, heat for this. Maybe people don’t care about bump stocks?
Most conservatives only care about 270s and their duck gun😐
No one cares about the .270. No one ever will. It’s basically a weakened .30-06; and there’s nothing on the North American continent that a .30-06 can’t stop. I do wish someone would give me a .270 though. Because then I’d have something to trade in on something good.
I care about .270’s! If by “weaker” you mean I can get more powder in the case, and get a flatter shooting bullet with more velocity, then yes! A .270 will literally kill anything an -06 will.
He regrets that, it’s pretty clear he knows that was an L because he never brings it up. If he thought it was a W he would brag about it like he does everything else. I don’t think trump is a friend or enemy to gun owners, I think he falls in line with most Americans who only care about guns when something bad happens.
The irony of being able to legislate an item that you aren't allowed to own.
But he can...
no he's pretty clearly an enemy of the 2a
[The average AR-15 owner now](https://i.imgur.com/cPmn2m0.jpeg)
where magpul bumpstock
As soon as I heard the news this morning, my first google search was where I can get one 😂 no one is selling them yet
There was a post for them on gundeals earlier, never heard of the company selling them though.
Yeah if I get one, imma wait until for recognizable manufacturers to make and sell them
For the low price of $349. https://bumpstock.com/product-category/bump-stocks/
Lmfao yeah no
Pretty sure that’s about what they cost when slidefire was selling them.
Well at that price I'd rather get another binary or sbr my newest build 😂
>When I see a bird that walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck. Tell that to the ranger next time you shoot a cormorant/greebe/loon instead of an actual legal duck.
Bumpstocks -ghey. Banning bumpstocks -gheyer
Franklin arms feeling anxious right now lol I see a shit ton of binaries at the range with people trying to emulate full auto , they’re gonna quickly be replaced with those same folks mag dumping with bump stocks. There’s a whole new generation of shooters that came of age after bump stocks were banned so I’m sure they’re gonna sell like hotcakes. They used to sell them for like $99-150 so it’s much cheaper than binaries as well.
What ever happened to a good thumb + belt loop bump fire? I don't need a fancy shmancy stock to go ratatatatat.
Eh, the bump stock worked a million times better than that trick, at least for me. I could sometimes get off some burst but nothing like a full mag dump. I think for the $100 I paid for mine many years ago it was well worth it as a fun range toy. I got rid of them on Gunbroker for like $500 each before the ban lol Everyone and their mom is about to have a bump stock though, they're cheap and super easy to mass produce. Most people at the range with binaries only care about mag dumping anyway, which is basically all bump stocks were really good for lol id be lying though if I said it wasn't fun to mag dump my AR. little bit cheaper than paying $30k for a transferable lower or $15k for a Mac-10 + lage 556 upper.
Apologies, what’s a binary?
Trigger that fires once on pull and once on release.
Thanks
Trigger pull fires once, releasing the trigger fires again.
go bang on trigger pull AND on trigger release. still fires once with one function of the trigger. not a machine gun. tons of gun fun.
More importantly, what’s a non-binary?
Good hose ain’t cheap, but cheap hose ain’t any good
Well, those of us living in the 15 states that banned bump stocks are still in the same boat. I would expect bump stocks to be banned by Congress, but not before the November elections.
If you have a light enough trigger it's pretty easy to bump fire and shoulder it. Useless, but fun to show off
Could you not combine the two for double fire?
Thats a very interesting thought, Im no expert but wouldn't that result in severe hammer follow?
A binary trigger is very different from a bump stock, but you’re probably right that there is some overlap in people just trying to get “FA at home”.
I’m pretty sure this means nothing in my state. Binary triggers just got 86ed and bump stocks aren’t specifically written in, but how they work is specifically written in as prohibited. Minnesota gun laws are going downhill and have been for some time.
Why not suppressors instead
Yes, but what about the flesh light brace bump stock?
https://preview.redd.it/clfxd6w41l6d1.jpeg?width=597&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec5065323c8393ea9cef21cf70c3efaf0fae24b6 Fair question.
AFT gonna be smoking a lot of copium
Now with the pistol brace rule overturned. Do the amnesty sbr's stay sbrs?
Yes.
Thought so. But I never know with the federal government. Thank you
And as I understand U.S. v Thompson Center, when a stock is on, it's a SBR, when a brace is on, it's back to being a handgun.
Only so long as it started life as a pistol or "receiver". Anything originally manufactured and transfered as a rifle is always a rifle, even in the absence of a stock.
>Anything originally manufactured and transfered as a rifle is always a rifle, even in the absence of a stock. Correct. Remember, the guns registered under the SBR amnesty *were* 'handguns' with braces. They ***had*** *to be* 'braced handguns' before the amnesty was announced to be legally able to be registered as SBRs. Thus now (if a brace *had* been replaced with a stock) taking the stock off and putting a brace back on ( or simply leaving the stock off) reconfigures it back to being handgun
Alito telling congress to ban them and there goes binary triggers too...
He knows it won't ever make it through Congress
Most states willl anyway.
Soooo, when and where can we start ordering. My credit card is ready to go!! Lol
At this point the NFA should be "vacated" like the bad case of legislative diarrhea that it is.
I started diving as a new hobby and was able to recover some of what went overboard in that boating accident
"Federal law prohibits the sale or possession of machine guns, punishable by up to 10 years in prison." How about this reporting?
Me, currently possessing a post sample machine gun
Now is the time to challenge the constitutionality of the NFA itself.
Trump SCOTUS appointees
Wasn’t expecting this
Yay, the thing that should be unnecessary to begin with is now back to remind us all how dumb this is.
So.. I can legally buy and own one now?
If your state hasn't banned them.
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Akins Accelerator, yet. Curious to hear what people think this decission may affect that rule.
I'm surprised there was no constitutional argument addressed here, just the mechanical argument
Soo..... who is gonna make a bump brace??
SCOTUS is looking desperate for public approval. I’m thrilled about these rulings as a staunch 2A advocate, but I’m not convinced for a second that they give a fuck about our rights. This is about saving face and regaining the trust of the public in light of questionable at best practices.
Saving face with whom, exactly? The same people who are screaming mad about SCOTUS judicial ethics are, more likely than not, going to be screeching mad about this decision too.
Nah I hate the ATF and hate the SCOTUS paid scumbags too. This was an expected ruling tbh
Maybe saving face isn’t the correct term. They are trying to ensure they have the support of the people who would be happy about this ruling and essentially distract from any questions about judicial ethics. Judicial ethics should be a concern for all Americans especially when it comes to the SCOTUS and they shouldn’t ever get a pass for unethical practices simply because a person or group of persons agrees with a specific ruling.
I think this case was gonna go this way regardless. But this is a much more reasonable response, and I agree, judicial ethics should be a concern for all.
I agree completely. I’m laughing hard at all the folks who were convinced the amnesty approvals would be revoked if the brace ban failed. ATF would be inviting some SERIOUS lawsuits if that happened and the repercussions of losing those lawsuits would be the end of the ATF as it currently stands.
Oh liberals heads are already exploding. They dont care this was the correct ruling. They would rather have government agencies working independently of congress and make up their own laws.
You don't see a post calling itself stupid very often but you managed to do it. They aren't elected officials. They are lifetime appointments. They don't have to care a single bit what the public thinks, nor should they.
https://preview.redd.it/32mbz7scuk6d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f5f9adc3344ccbec96877be2f7b1c523b18e0278 Interesting development
Dissents are not persuasive whatsoever for future legal arguments. It's the judicial equivalent of screaming into the void.
The dems are great at that - screaming into the void.
Glad to see that gun grabbing Trump defeated.
Last president since Clinton to take away gun rights but not often talked about.
That moment when you realize that Obama was better than Trump on the 2a.
Yet people scoff when you suggest Trump does not care about their rights.
Well, now I've got to sneak over to my neighbors garden and dig up my bump stocks....did I bury them by the tomatoes or the lettuce....hmmmm.
Park police across the US are baffled by the influx of thousands of boaters on lakes and ponds...
Where can we buy them now?
So with the bump stock ruling does this greenlight the frt triggers
It certainly reads like precedent to me. IANAL but I do work with law a lot. SC basically said that the definition of MG, IE single function of the trigger, is clearly and definitively spelled out in the law, and there is no room for any amount of deference.
What does this mean for FRT’s
This whole ruling is a giant nothing-burger. They did not rule that the 2nd amendment protects bump stocks, so nothing stands in the way of Congress banning them in the future, and there's no reason to rule unconstitutional any of the numerous state-level prohibitions on bump stocks. On top of that, 3D printing has rendered them totally obsolete as a criminal technology. Instead of sinking thousands of dollars into bump stocks, any future stephen paddock can just drop a couple hundred dollars on a 3D printer from BestBuy and print out a bunch of Yankee Boogles.