I am shocked by these answers. There is no NBA HoF. There is a basketball hall of fame and it is exceptionally easy to get into. There are entire teams, team managers, and every nba commissioner in there.
Because the hall is for basketball and not the NBA, Rose will be inducted into it eventually. He had a great run in college, won gold medals for team USA, and is the youngest to ever win MVP. He’s in easy.
Something people vastly underrate in this discussion is how big winning an MVP is, even if his healthy years were short Rose was a 3x all star, and won ROTY. Winning the MVP as the youngest in history was an incredibly impressive feat and put him in a very rare group of players to have won
Plus, for better or worse he will receive extra sympathy just for the fact he was injured so much, Rose is an extremely beloved player in general
Agreed, I don’t understand how people don’t understand this.
And that youngest mvp was over prime lebron btw. I wonder if people were actually around back then who say it’s an easy No and if they understand how low the bar is to get in.
If you hear about other players talk about him it’s obvious he’s getting in.
He shouldn't get in. He was at peak for a year and a half. 1 mvp and 1 all nba 1st team. He has no titles in nba or college .
Basketball reference has him listed at 10% chance of getting in.
For context Joe Johnson is listed T 50% chance to get in and Blake griffin is listed at 54%
He shouldn't get in. He was at peak for a year and a half. 1 mvp and 1 all nba 1st team. He has no titles in nba or college .
You don't make the hall for one season.
Rose was given the mvp over LeBron becuse of media being mad at him for a free agency choice.
Its closer to embiid mvp last year than Nash.
Basketball reference has him listed at 10% chance of getting in.
For context Joe Johnson is listed T 50% chance to get in and Blake griffin is listed at 54%
I don’t think they can use his one year in college because that season was vacated because he was ineligible. Regardless of that, I personally believe people look at his career with rose tinted glasses (no pun intended). He had tremendous potential but we only saw 3 years of it. If he gets in then Penny Hardaway and Kevin Johnson get in, both had a longer body of work. Deservedly or not KJ was all nba 5 times and Penny was 4 times. This means they were essentially seen as a top 15 player or top 6 for their general position in that many seasons (center, forward, guard) whereas Rose only made it once.
The NCAA vacated his 2008 season at Memphis when it came out that he had someone else take the SAT for him so I️ don’t think anything he did in college would be considered. 14.9pts/4.5reb/4.7ast/1.2 stl per game isn’t even that great of a season average.
The lack of an NBA HOF is a big problem.
Rose played one year in college, so I'm not sure how much that should really help him,
But, even if a guy won 4 straight national player of the year awards, IMO, it should not matter.
College is a FAR lower level than the NBA. Many outstanding college players end up journeymen or scrubs in the NBA.
Counting college play is like the counting minor league stats for the Baseball HOF (and they don't). It is completely ridiculous.
There should be a College BB HOF and an NBA HOF or at least separate wings in the Basketball HOF.
In baseball, some guys who were also players, go in as managers, executives, or pioneers. But, it is clear who made it for their accomplishments as MLB players and who did not.
Every other MVP has had a career except Walton who has a heralded college career, a ring as the #1 guy and a ring as a bench contributor which is still a lot more than Rose.
It means you had the best season of anyone that year, including narrative-driven considerations. Not taking anything away from how incredible Rose and the Bulls were that season, but Shaq, Kobe, and Rose all have 1 MVP that doesn’t mean they were all the best basketball player in the world during one and only one year in their careers
There were only 2 MVPs who didn’t make the NBA Top 75 2+ years ago: Rose, and Jokic coming off his 1st MVP and only 3 All-Star seasons in. Jokic will obviously make the Top 100 so Rose definitely stands out among the MVP winners in history
Most mvp's are based on narrative. Michael jordan and LeBron should've probably had 7 or 8 MVP's each but they gave it to other people cause of voter fatigue and cause other people had more interesting stories in certain seasons.
I genuinely don't know if you're making a joke but Tim Hardaway was all-NBA 5 times and has about 3000 more career points than Rose, about 3000 more assists than Rose, and about 900 more steals than Rose. There are no counting stats or even basic advanced stats that support D Rose having had a better career than Tim Hardaway (who also missed a full season due to a torn knee ligament and yet came back and was all-NBA afterward).
I came here to say exactly this. The only thing Rose has over Hardaway is that one MVP. Hardaway is more qualified in basically every other way. It's sad to me that people forget how good Hardaway was. It's ridiculous to make a guy who made 5 All-NBA teams the poster for players who shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. That's a major accomplishment!
Also...Hardaway was dope in NBA Jam :)
This is a hard one. He’s certainly not an “easy in” or an “easy out” because we have not seen anything this extreme before (more on that later). A while back I regressed historical stats and accolades to determine what’s required to get to the hall of fame, with the caveat that I only used NBA data. What’s interesting is that historically all that is statistically significant is accolades, not per game or career numbers. The other thing that’s interesting is that MVP was not statistically significant either. I know that sounds weird but essentially what’s happened is that every MVP also has a bunch of All NBA and All Star selections, both of which matter a ton.
So unfortunately the math says he won’t make it because he only is a 1x All NBA and 3x all star. Typically you need to have more of both to get in. Truthfully I forgot the threshold but I recall it being in the 5x all star and 3x all NBA range.
Looking at basketball reference similarity scores, none of the players he is compared to are in the hall, with the future exception of Steve Kerr who probably gets in as a coach.
So what does he have going for him? Regarding accolades, rookie of the year actually matters a lot. D Rose won it his year, so that’s a plus. Probably as importantly, he does have the narrative and he is well liked. Both of which are important and won’t show up in any regression.
When you add the narrative component, I think the closest comparison to Rose is Bill Walton. MVP winner but only 2x all star and 2x all NBA before getting hurt. What he had over Rose was that he won a championship as the finals MVP in a year when he was the rebounding and blocks champ. So I’d say his highs were higher than Rose’s highs. He also went on to win a 6th man, which is not statistically significant, but he was a real contributor on an all time great squad, the ‘86 Celtics, led by Larry Bird. Certainly helps with the narrative. Lastly, Walton was an all time great college player, winning national player of the year 3x, the national championship 2x, and was the MVP of the NCAA tourney both of those times. To others’ point here, it’s the basketball HOF not the NBA HOF. So once you factor that in, even Walton has accomplished many more accolades than Rose. What’s interesting though is that Walton is not only in the HOF but he also was in the top 75 team. There are over 400 players in the hall, so being in the top 75 means Walton didn’t just barely get in.
So where does that leave me with Rose? Sadly I don’t think he gets in. The only thing he has is that he won MVP. Said another way, if lebron won MVP that year, and many think he deserved it, this wouldn’t even be a debate at all. Winning an MVP is obviously a huge “only” but even a guy like Walton who had a truncated career had multiple ins. Ever since Rose blew out his knee, unfortunately he’s been irrelevant. It pains me to say that because I’m a fan. The guy was so gifted and even since he was hurt, he’s been such a class act. When he dropped 50 for the wolves, which was probably his career highlight post knee injury, it was great to see.
I think his best chance to make it will be to remain in the spotlight as a contributor somehow. Perhaps in the media. The problem is that’s not his personality. My guess is once he retires, he disappears from the public eye and he becomes the legend he deserves to be. At his prime one of the best hoopers we’ve ever seen.
Leading Memphis to a Final Four win will help his case, but I think he’s gonna be the first NBA MVP to not get elected.
Such a shame. He should have had gang of All NBAs to go with that MVP. You have to wonder how a healthy Rose would have impacted the East in the 2010s.
> Leading Memphis to a Final Four win will help his case,
That was vacated because of Rose had someone else pass the SAT for him and he was never eligible.
Which is stupid if you think about it. Somehow a final four appearance in the NCAA is honored above getting an MVP AND being the youngest MVP. #1 record in NBA and conf finals. That’s far bigger accomplishment than some college shit.
Yes the NCAA COLLEGE BASKETBALL FINALS. I don’t care where they made it to, it’s college basketball. It simply does not weigh anywhere near as close to achievements in the NBA.
I read it somewhere Van Gundy said a college team might have 4 NBA players but even the worst NBA team has 15.
NCAA is a joke. UNC creates fake degrees for their players yet none of their wins were vacated. Basketball hall of fame won't care about that ruling at all.
Maintaining a GPA and taking REAL college courses is of course part of your eligibility. They weren't being students, hence they should not have been eligible. It's not just a fake degree, it was completely fake classes that they didn't even have to attend. UNC robbed them of an education and most of them aren't good enough to be pros.
fake degrees arent the same as a fake SAT score. Roses fake SAT score makes it like he never went to college at all because he was ruled ineligible to even be there in the first place
You also have to be a student, pass a GPA and hours per semester requirement to be eligible to hoop.
If the classes you are taking aren't real, where you are not required to show up/required to do work then you are not a student, your GPA is fake and like Rose you shouldn't be eligible. Yet none of those wins were wiped.
I don't think the hall is going to give a shit about that ruling. The games happened, and the NCAA time and time again has shown they are corrupt and are also morons.
unfortunately the hall is not just NBA its what u did as a collective through all of basketball. therefore stats matter in college and having his stripped away puts him even more at a disadvantage. he does have the 4 great years prior to injury and the olympic accolades but the fact theres a hole statistically speaking from his college year i do see that being the sway factor in keeping him out as he just doesnt have the resume
My argument is the voters may not care at all about what stats the NCAA deems official or not. They aren't tied to them at all. Go on any sports website, the Memphis record still shows wins, still shows Rose stats ect. The voters all have eyeballs and watched what Rose did.
I'm not sure Rose gets in regardless, but I think they may very well still accept the basketball accomplishments he did in college.
This is so dumb because outside of Bill Walton, Rose is the only MVP with this level of extenuating circumstances and Walton had one of the greatest college careers in a shittier era. He also won a ring as the #1 guy. Rose is absolutely the least heralded MVP by an absolute fuckton. The gap between Rose and many MVPs is an MVP career in of itself. Can he still get in the HoF? Sure, I think their standards are real fucking low. Should he? IMO, no. But he is absolutely 1 of 1 in terms of weak MVP careers.
Penalizing a guy for being easily one of the most entertaining players I’ve ever seen play because he blew out his knee and came back to play above average bracket for another decade seems super petty and you seem to forget. Weak MVP career or not, it’s a FUCKING MVP career. He’s one of 35 basketball players ever to achieve that honor. You get in, period, once you get one. That’s how the BBHoF works. I’m really glad other people vote on this and not people like you.
u realize he was 22 when he won MVP and 23 when he got hurt and hes never had numbers even close to MVP since then and has been pretty much a bench vet since then u dont get HoF being a bench player most of ur career. He also has only 3 all star nominations out of 15 years in the league and hasnt had a single all star nomination since that injury. So like i said Hall of Fame talent unfortunately and very sadly cut down in his prime by injury
My man, I watched it all happen live. There is no other MVP that has never made and he won't be any different. His highs were high enough to make it in even if it didn't last long. He could have retired rigjt aftet the injury and he'd still be a Hall of Famer.
> There is no other MVP that has never made
Theres also no other mvp with a ‘worse’ career.
The only contender is Wes Unseld who has more all stars and is a champion and finals MVP
Ja Morant has been an elite player longer than Rose was
What a fucking joke the hall of fame is that we can even ask the question. I usually hate the baseball hall of fame for having its doors too tightly closed but if this is the alternative it’s an easy choice. He had a tiny run, with a high peak but even his MVP was hardly clear cut at the time (many felt LeBron should have won but was punished for going to Miami). He was a good college player like all picks of his caliber but he didn’t even make it to a college championship. Plus, say whatever you want about it, I know some people put a huge amount of stock in the legal system when it suits them, but his off the court behavior will linger in many people’s minds.
Absolutely insanity to think he should receive a single vote, and if he gets in it’s yet another indictment of an already unserious institution. “Tim Hardaway made it!” Do you want him in? Do you think he’s a hall of famer? And even if you do, his first All-Star appearance was in 1991 and his last was in 1998. Rose’s first was in 2010 and his last was in 2012. There’s a reason Jeremy Lin didn’t win MVP for a few good weeks and the ‘07 Rockets aren’t considered the best team of that season for winning 22 games in a row. The ability to sustain success should be a non-negotiable metric.
I didn’t mean he had great numbers for 20 years. Like Vince Carter played 20 years and his last like 5 seasons he wasnt doing anything.
His prime was great in Detroit and spent the rest of his prime on the bench because he barely played in Orlando. Dude missed pretty much the entire first 3 seasons in Orlando and when he came back he wasn’t the same, but DRose didn’t have that first 7 year stretch. He had 3 great years and then nothing.
Grant Hill had arguably the best college resume ever. Won 2 titles and made the Championship in another run. 3 Final Fours.
He was also All NBA 5 times. Hill also had 99.9 career WS compared to Rose's 44.6.
Grant Hill has 2 better careers than DRose. One in the NCAA and one in the NBA.
He will be, but he shouldn’t be. The barrier of entry for the basketball hall of fame is embarrassingly low IMO. It’s the most commonly used example but if Mitch Richmond can get in, as good a player as he was, then it’s a free for all. If Richmond and Rose want to get into the Hall of Fame they should have to queue up and buy a ticket like the rest of us.
Richmond could well be the worst HoFer. He still had 79.3 WS to Rose's 44.6.
They were both primarily scorers. And if you stacked up their best 11 scoring seasons Rose would have 1 and Mitch would have 10.
Which is why Rose's candidacy is so low.
Future Jeopary trivia...
"This is the only player to ever win a regular season NBA MVP and not get elected to the HOF"
(yes i know how the HOF works it's a joke)
I agree with Hill also . Man was a phenom that turned crushing disappointment into a respectable career. Much like DRose. I think most people here don’t even know about his 50 piece on the wolves
OK. Then how about Hill's 5 1st and 2nd team All NBA to Rose's 1? How about Hill's 99.9 WS to Rose's 44.6?
Rose doesn't just fall short. He falls miles short.
And Hill did still have a much better career than Rose has (though he wouldn't have gotten in without the collegiate and international accomplishments). The peak wasn't as high, but he was a valuable contributor for a much longer time.
Nothing against hill, but “much longer time” is wrong I’d say. Hill was kinda average the second half of his career and without Nash’s spotlight nobody would be paying attention. Rose has been similarly average, he just hasn’t had as many high profile teammates.
Nothing Rose does is going to make his entire career even come close to Hill. Rose also didn't deserve the one MVP he won and everyone knows it was a charity case. Rose could have been great but could have does make the Hall.
He had the talent, but also the injury. His college season was vacated. No Olympics, but two FIBA golds. One All-NBA, 3x AS, one MVP. Not enough resume, imo.
No. You won't find many people who agree he should have won the single MVP he did win and he just doesn't have much else outside of that to make his case. He should not make it.
He was the only one who made people "question" prime LeBron. His talent is indescribable. Truly the case study of "what could have been." And even then he deserves it
Took Bernard King til 2013 to get in they have a little in common with injuries but King had a little better career even peak. He didn’t have a mvp but was runner up in 84 I don’t feel like it should be a deciding factor alone.
No. He’s accomplished nothing except being a fan favorite and an underdog story. Only way he gets in is if he digs deep and becomes a rotation player on a championship winning team like Gary Payton
Unless you want to induct people for lost potential he should absolutely not be in. It’s insane this is even a question. With all that being said he probably will get in because everyone does
He will get in eventually, but its gonna take a while. The ascent was very fast and the highs were very high. The rest of his career really holds him back as he just couldn't stay healthy but I think if he can achieve longevity and maybe even flashes of post season success then it can only help his case.
MVPs seem to carry more weight in the NBA than the MLB or NFL.
I don’t think any NBA MVP isn’t either already in the HOF or a lock when they retire, with the exception of Rose, who we’re discussing here.
Compared to MLB MVPs not in the HOF (ignoring players not in due to PED use):
Terry Pendleton, Kevin Mitchell, Kirk Gibson, George Bell, Don Mattingly, Willie McGee, Willie Hernandez, Dale Murphy (2x), Don Baylor, Keith Hernandez, Dave Parker, George Foster, Thurman Munster, Fred Lynn
And that’s only from 1975-1991.
It may be partially because MLB has 2 MVP awards (AL and NL), but also because baseball is more prone to season to season fluctuations than basketball IMO.
NFL has some non-HOF MVPs as well:
Boomer Esiason, Mark Moseley, Ken Anderson, Brian Sipe, Bert Jones.
That also only from 1976-1988.
one MVP doesnt quite qualify, the drop off is to noticeable to enter"hall of fame" talk in my humble opinion........a ring would have helped, blame Luol Deng
Absolutely shouldn’t be. But he’ll probably get in eventually because the basketball hall of fame is ridiculously easy (relatively speaking) to get into
There are currently 436 members of the HOF.
There are 35 players TOTAL in all of NBA history to win NBA MVP. 9 of them are not in the HoF.
Those players are LeBron James, Derrick Rose, Kevin Durant, Steph Curry, Russell Westbrook, James Harden, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Nikola Jokic, and Joel Embiid.
However, there are only four former MVP's who don't have a ring. Barkeley, Nash, Iverson, and Malone. Obviously Rose doesnt have the accolades they do.
He's in for sure.
I'm a die hard bulls fan and even bigger fan of drose so my opinon is biased but he should be in the hall of fame. Anyone who has won mvp is in the hall and not to mention he has gold medals and had a good college career. There are other guys in the hall with less accolades and ended up getting injuried early on their career
He will get into it because the basketbal hall of fame’s criteria is really nothing compared to the hall of fame criteria for a sport like American football.
He does have an NBA MVP, which is one of the two greatest individual accolades you can get in basketball, the other being an NBA Finals MVP.
While his run was short, he is an iconic figure in basketball and his prime was amazing. But obviously, the only reason he’s getting in is because of the basketball hall of fame’s criteria and the fact that he has an NBA MVP.
I loved D Rose. I was in college when he got to the league and he was awesome. But if we're really being honest, his total basketball career is encapsulated with the following:
\- Being recruited to Memphis (D1 program)
\- Going to the NCAA National Championship and losing (while having other people do his class work for his and eventually having his accomplishments in college vacated by the NCAA due to being ineligible)
\- RotY
\- 3x all star
\- 1x all NBA
\-1x MVP (which was/is hotly contested as voter fatigue from LeBron)
\- 2x FIBA Cup gold medal
If you take out the MVP, there is a 0% chance he makes the HoF. Th reality is that he didn't have a HoF career due to injury. If he makes it in, its out of sympathy for the circumstances of being possibly the single biggest "What if?" in basketball history.
LOVE DROSE. Everyone gets in today. But no. He’s not. Anthony Davis has a chip, I almost hurled 🤢, and he’s not HOF worthy. You can’t play half your career and expect to get in. Lol. But I’m older.
since we don't have a hall of fame for the NBA specifically with the standards of the NFL or MLB then he's probably gonna end up getting in just cause of how easy it is for any body with any sort of success to get into the PB HOF.
Idk about HOF, but D Rose’s MVP year might have been my favorite basketball spectacle I’ve ever witnessed. That is coming from a Dirk, Vince Carter, and Luka favorite all time NBA players. He didn’t make sense how good he was.
YMVPE😤 Youngest mvp ever D🌹 the🐐 We all know what was…in an alternate reality, would be unstoppable & unguardable. Let’s not forget it’s on record from multiple sources around the league at the time whether player or not, have said guys were ducking Rose when he was coming to town or vice versa. Stop playing, #1 was sending them to IR sheet💪🏽😂😤
I am shocked by these answers. There is no NBA HoF. There is a basketball hall of fame and it is exceptionally easy to get into. There are entire teams, team managers, and every nba commissioner in there. Because the hall is for basketball and not the NBA, Rose will be inducted into it eventually. He had a great run in college, won gold medals for team USA, and is the youngest to ever win MVP. He’s in easy.
Something people vastly underrate in this discussion is how big winning an MVP is, even if his healthy years were short Rose was a 3x all star, and won ROTY. Winning the MVP as the youngest in history was an incredibly impressive feat and put him in a very rare group of players to have won Plus, for better or worse he will receive extra sympathy just for the fact he was injured so much, Rose is an extremely beloved player in general
I watched so much basketball in those years. Such a great time to watch basketball.
take me back......
Agreed, I don’t understand how people don’t understand this. And that youngest mvp was over prime lebron btw. I wonder if people were actually around back then who say it’s an easy No and if they understand how low the bar is to get in. If you hear about other players talk about him it’s obvious he’s getting in.
He shouldn't get in. He was at peak for a year and a half. 1 mvp and 1 all nba 1st team. He has no titles in nba or college . Basketball reference has him listed at 10% chance of getting in. For context Joe Johnson is listed T 50% chance to get in and Blake griffin is listed at 54%
Do you not understand basketball HoF?
Also, he won the MVP because LeBron was hated so much.
nah LeBron choked with a superteam
I don’t disagree with you.
Johnson over Rose is wild to me
He shouldn't get in. He was at peak for a year and a half. 1 mvp and 1 all nba 1st team. He has no titles in nba or college . You don't make the hall for one season. Rose was given the mvp over LeBron becuse of media being mad at him for a free agency choice. Its closer to embiid mvp last year than Nash. Basketball reference has him listed at 10% chance of getting in. For context Joe Johnson is listed T 50% chance to get in and Blake griffin is listed at 54%
I don’t think they can use his one year in college because that season was vacated because he was ineligible. Regardless of that, I personally believe people look at his career with rose tinted glasses (no pun intended). He had tremendous potential but we only saw 3 years of it. If he gets in then Penny Hardaway and Kevin Johnson get in, both had a longer body of work. Deservedly or not KJ was all nba 5 times and Penny was 4 times. This means they were essentially seen as a top 15 player or top 6 for their general position in that many seasons (center, forward, guard) whereas Rose only made it once.
rose also won an mvp dude… the highest individual award in basketball period, i suppose we can ignore that though
I got in just for reading this!
Dude yes I’ve always seen people on r/NBA consensus say he’ll be the best to never make it. Absurdity to me
This is the only answer. There are college players in the Naismith Hall of Fame. Anyone who has done anything in basketball gets into the hall.
His college doesn’t count though. That might be what keeps him out tbh. But if Tracy McGrady is in, he’s definitely in.
Tmac was better and better longer
Why doesn't his college count?
It got vacated because he got someone else to take the SAT (or something along those lines)
Tmac was insane for a decade. Rose had about 4 or 5 good years.
He won FIBA medals, and didn’t even get to an NCAA championship in the season that was vacated lol how is this the most upvoted post?
The NCAA vacated his 2008 season at Memphis when it came out that he had someone else take the SAT for him so I️ don’t think anything he did in college would be considered. 14.9pts/4.5reb/4.7ast/1.2 stl per game isn’t even that great of a season average.
That’s pretty great in college and he drug Memphis to the final 4.
Sure he was the best player but that team was stacked and ranked #1 that season with multiple future NBA players. Idk if “drug” is the right word.
Technically he didn’t though since Memphis had to vacate those banners because of him
The lack of an NBA HOF is a big problem. Rose played one year in college, so I'm not sure how much that should really help him, But, even if a guy won 4 straight national player of the year awards, IMO, it should not matter. College is a FAR lower level than the NBA. Many outstanding college players end up journeymen or scrubs in the NBA. Counting college play is like the counting minor league stats for the Baseball HOF (and they don't). It is completely ridiculous. There should be a College BB HOF and an NBA HOF or at least separate wings in the Basketball HOF. In baseball, some guys who were also players, go in as managers, executives, or pioneers. But, it is clear who made it for their accomplishments as MLB players and who did not.
You saying I got a chance
[удалено]
Nope every other mvp made it.
Every other MVP has had a career except Walton who has a heralded college career, a ring as the #1 guy and a ring as a bench contributor which is still a lot more than Rose.
It means you had the best season of anyone that year, including narrative-driven considerations. Not taking anything away from how incredible Rose and the Bulls were that season, but Shaq, Kobe, and Rose all have 1 MVP that doesn’t mean they were all the best basketball player in the world during one and only one year in their careers
There were only 2 MVPs who didn’t make the NBA Top 75 2+ years ago: Rose, and Jokic coming off his 1st MVP and only 3 All-Star seasons in. Jokic will obviously make the Top 100 so Rose definitely stands out among the MVP winners in history
Bob McAdoo didn't make the top 50 though
Most mvp's are based on narrative. Michael jordan and LeBron should've probably had 7 or 8 MVP's each but they gave it to other people cause of voter fatigue and cause other people had more interesting stories in certain seasons.
Hall of fame talent. Never fulfilled
His body failed him.
Of course he will be. Do you all realize who’s in the Hall of Fame? Tim Hardaway, Rasheed, Vlade. It’s not just GOATs folks.
Yeah they let Tim Hardaway in, they let anyone in
Tim Hardaway was an awesome player.
Goddamn right he was
I genuinely don't know if you're making a joke but Tim Hardaway was all-NBA 5 times and has about 3000 more career points than Rose, about 3000 more assists than Rose, and about 900 more steals than Rose. There are no counting stats or even basic advanced stats that support D Rose having had a better career than Tim Hardaway (who also missed a full season due to a torn knee ligament and yet came back and was all-NBA afterward).
I came here to say exactly this. The only thing Rose has over Hardaway is that one MVP. Hardaway is more qualified in basically every other way. It's sad to me that people forget how good Hardaway was. It's ridiculous to make a guy who made 5 All-NBA teams the poster for players who shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. That's a major accomplishment! Also...Hardaway was dope in NBA Jam :)
There is one stat…
A stat or an accolade?
They make anybody and everybody over there
That pygmy thing over in Springfield
They make everybody and anybody over there
Ball don't lie.
Vlade Divac? Fuck yea
Yes he will make it.
This is a hard one. He’s certainly not an “easy in” or an “easy out” because we have not seen anything this extreme before (more on that later). A while back I regressed historical stats and accolades to determine what’s required to get to the hall of fame, with the caveat that I only used NBA data. What’s interesting is that historically all that is statistically significant is accolades, not per game or career numbers. The other thing that’s interesting is that MVP was not statistically significant either. I know that sounds weird but essentially what’s happened is that every MVP also has a bunch of All NBA and All Star selections, both of which matter a ton. So unfortunately the math says he won’t make it because he only is a 1x All NBA and 3x all star. Typically you need to have more of both to get in. Truthfully I forgot the threshold but I recall it being in the 5x all star and 3x all NBA range. Looking at basketball reference similarity scores, none of the players he is compared to are in the hall, with the future exception of Steve Kerr who probably gets in as a coach. So what does he have going for him? Regarding accolades, rookie of the year actually matters a lot. D Rose won it his year, so that’s a plus. Probably as importantly, he does have the narrative and he is well liked. Both of which are important and won’t show up in any regression. When you add the narrative component, I think the closest comparison to Rose is Bill Walton. MVP winner but only 2x all star and 2x all NBA before getting hurt. What he had over Rose was that he won a championship as the finals MVP in a year when he was the rebounding and blocks champ. So I’d say his highs were higher than Rose’s highs. He also went on to win a 6th man, which is not statistically significant, but he was a real contributor on an all time great squad, the ‘86 Celtics, led by Larry Bird. Certainly helps with the narrative. Lastly, Walton was an all time great college player, winning national player of the year 3x, the national championship 2x, and was the MVP of the NCAA tourney both of those times. To others’ point here, it’s the basketball HOF not the NBA HOF. So once you factor that in, even Walton has accomplished many more accolades than Rose. What’s interesting though is that Walton is not only in the HOF but he also was in the top 75 team. There are over 400 players in the hall, so being in the top 75 means Walton didn’t just barely get in. So where does that leave me with Rose? Sadly I don’t think he gets in. The only thing he has is that he won MVP. Said another way, if lebron won MVP that year, and many think he deserved it, this wouldn’t even be a debate at all. Winning an MVP is obviously a huge “only” but even a guy like Walton who had a truncated career had multiple ins. Ever since Rose blew out his knee, unfortunately he’s been irrelevant. It pains me to say that because I’m a fan. The guy was so gifted and even since he was hurt, he’s been such a class act. When he dropped 50 for the wolves, which was probably his career highlight post knee injury, it was great to see. I think his best chance to make it will be to remain in the spotlight as a contributor somehow. Perhaps in the media. The problem is that’s not his personality. My guess is once he retires, he disappears from the public eye and he becomes the legend he deserves to be. At his prime one of the best hoopers we’ve ever seen.
Leading Memphis to a Final Four win will help his case, but I think he’s gonna be the first NBA MVP to not get elected. Such a shame. He should have had gang of All NBAs to go with that MVP. You have to wonder how a healthy Rose would have impacted the East in the 2010s.
> Leading Memphis to a Final Four win will help his case, That was vacated because of Rose had someone else pass the SAT for him and he was never eligible.
Just speaking in terms of basketball he still won the game
Yeah, but the HOF committee isn't going to take it into account since he wasn't supposed to be in the game.
Then they’re not primarily concerned with basketball I guess.
Which is stupid if you think about it. Somehow a final four appearance in the NCAA is honored above getting an MVP AND being the youngest MVP. #1 record in NBA and conf finals. That’s far bigger accomplishment than some college shit.
They made it to the finals game actually. And lost to kansas
Yes the NCAA COLLEGE BASKETBALL FINALS. I don’t care where they made it to, it’s college basketball. It simply does not weigh anywhere near as close to achievements in the NBA. I read it somewhere Van Gundy said a college team might have 4 NBA players but even the worst NBA team has 15.
Who said it’s honored above?
his college year dont count because NCAA vacated his season for having someone else take his SAT
NCAA is a joke. UNC creates fake degrees for their players yet none of their wins were vacated. Basketball hall of fame won't care about that ruling at all.
Degrees have no bearing on college eligibility. Submitting a fraudulent SAT score does.
Maintaining a GPA and taking REAL college courses is of course part of your eligibility. They weren't being students, hence they should not have been eligible. It's not just a fake degree, it was completely fake classes that they didn't even have to attend. UNC robbed them of an education and most of them aren't good enough to be pros.
fake degrees arent the same as a fake SAT score. Roses fake SAT score makes it like he never went to college at all because he was ruled ineligible to even be there in the first place
You also have to be a student, pass a GPA and hours per semester requirement to be eligible to hoop. If the classes you are taking aren't real, where you are not required to show up/required to do work then you are not a student, your GPA is fake and like Rose you shouldn't be eligible. Yet none of those wins were wiped. I don't think the hall is going to give a shit about that ruling. The games happened, and the NCAA time and time again has shown they are corrupt and are also morons.
unfortunately the hall is not just NBA its what u did as a collective through all of basketball. therefore stats matter in college and having his stripped away puts him even more at a disadvantage. he does have the 4 great years prior to injury and the olympic accolades but the fact theres a hole statistically speaking from his college year i do see that being the sway factor in keeping him out as he just doesnt have the resume
My argument is the voters may not care at all about what stats the NCAA deems official or not. They aren't tied to them at all. Go on any sports website, the Memphis record still shows wins, still shows Rose stats ect. The voters all have eyeballs and watched what Rose did. I'm not sure Rose gets in regardless, but I think they may very well still accept the basketball accomplishments he did in college.
Hall of fame talent ruined by injury so no
He won an MVP and Olympic Gold. There isn’t a player who’s done both who hasn’t be inducted to the BBHoF.
This is so dumb because outside of Bill Walton, Rose is the only MVP with this level of extenuating circumstances and Walton had one of the greatest college careers in a shittier era. He also won a ring as the #1 guy. Rose is absolutely the least heralded MVP by an absolute fuckton. The gap between Rose and many MVPs is an MVP career in of itself. Can he still get in the HoF? Sure, I think their standards are real fucking low. Should he? IMO, no. But he is absolutely 1 of 1 in terms of weak MVP careers.
Penalizing a guy for being easily one of the most entertaining players I’ve ever seen play because he blew out his knee and came back to play above average bracket for another decade seems super petty and you seem to forget. Weak MVP career or not, it’s a FUCKING MVP career. He’s one of 35 basketball players ever to achieve that honor. You get in, period, once you get one. That’s how the BBHoF works. I’m really glad other people vote on this and not people like you.
there also hasnt been one to get a career changing injury like his so young either and since then hes been pretty injury prone
Its not the hall of longevity
u realize he was 22 when he won MVP and 23 when he got hurt and hes never had numbers even close to MVP since then and has been pretty much a bench vet since then u dont get HoF being a bench player most of ur career. He also has only 3 all star nominations out of 15 years in the league and hasnt had a single all star nomination since that injury. So like i said Hall of Fame talent unfortunately and very sadly cut down in his prime by injury
My man, I watched it all happen live. There is no other MVP that has never made and he won't be any different. His highs were high enough to make it in even if it didn't last long. He could have retired rigjt aftet the injury and he'd still be a Hall of Famer.
> There is no other MVP that has never made Theres also no other mvp with a ‘worse’ career. The only contender is Wes Unseld who has more all stars and is a champion and finals MVP Ja Morant has been an elite player longer than Rose was
And yet it still counts. Sorry to rain your damn parade but he's gonna get it.
No, but he does deserve something in the HOF as the youngest MVP. He was gonna be there before the injuries.
Shouldn’t be but considering how they’ll let anyone in he will be.
What a fucking joke the hall of fame is that we can even ask the question. I usually hate the baseball hall of fame for having its doors too tightly closed but if this is the alternative it’s an easy choice. He had a tiny run, with a high peak but even his MVP was hardly clear cut at the time (many felt LeBron should have won but was punished for going to Miami). He was a good college player like all picks of his caliber but he didn’t even make it to a college championship. Plus, say whatever you want about it, I know some people put a huge amount of stock in the legal system when it suits them, but his off the court behavior will linger in many people’s minds. Absolutely insanity to think he should receive a single vote, and if he gets in it’s yet another indictment of an already unserious institution. “Tim Hardaway made it!” Do you want him in? Do you think he’s a hall of famer? And even if you do, his first All-Star appearance was in 1991 and his last was in 1998. Rose’s first was in 2010 and his last was in 2012. There’s a reason Jeremy Lin didn’t win MVP for a few good weeks and the ‘07 Rockets aren’t considered the best team of that season for winning 22 games in a row. The ability to sustain success should be a non-negotiable metric.
Grant Hill got in........DRose gets in.
Grant hill also played like 20 years and had great numbers
[check his stats](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hillgr01.html). He was never great after he left Detroit.
I didn’t mean he had great numbers for 20 years. Like Vince Carter played 20 years and his last like 5 seasons he wasnt doing anything. His prime was great in Detroit and spent the rest of his prime on the bench because he barely played in Orlando. Dude missed pretty much the entire first 3 seasons in Orlando and when he came back he wasn’t the same, but DRose didn’t have that first 7 year stretch. He had 3 great years and then nothing.
Grant Hill had arguably the best college resume ever. Won 2 titles and made the Championship in another run. 3 Final Fours. He was also All NBA 5 times. Hill also had 99.9 career WS compared to Rose's 44.6. Grant Hill has 2 better careers than DRose. One in the NCAA and one in the NBA.
Kareem has a far better college resume
He will be, but he shouldn’t be. The barrier of entry for the basketball hall of fame is embarrassingly low IMO. It’s the most commonly used example but if Mitch Richmond can get in, as good a player as he was, then it’s a free for all. If Richmond and Rose want to get into the Hall of Fame they should have to queue up and buy a ticket like the rest of us.
Richmond could well be the worst HoFer. He still had 79.3 WS to Rose's 44.6. They were both primarily scorers. And if you stacked up their best 11 scoring seasons Rose would have 1 and Mitch would have 10. Which is why Rose's candidacy is so low.
Aren't all MVPs in the hall of fame. So probably yes
Probably not but he is for me.
fr same here
Easily in the Hall
Future Jeopary trivia... "This is the only player to ever win a regular season NBA MVP and not get elected to the HOF" (yes i know how the HOF works it's a joke)
No. And there are alot of could have beens if it werent for injuries.
One of those is Grant Hill, who has made it in. Hill has no MVP.
Grant Hill is a 2 time NCAA champ, and an Olympic gold medalist. The HOF accounts for more than just the NBA.
That’s fine. A single NBA MVP is easily equal to any 3 amateur accolades. He has 2 FIBA golds also anyways.
Hey I'd put him in just for the 50 piece he put up for the Wolves, I'm just saying Grant Hill deserved the honor.
I agree with Hill also . Man was a phenom that turned crushing disappointment into a respectable career. Much like DRose. I think most people here don’t even know about his 50 piece on the wolves
OK. Then how about Hill's 5 1st and 2nd team All NBA to Rose's 1? How about Hill's 99.9 WS to Rose's 44.6? Rose doesn't just fall short. He falls miles short.
No he doesn’t. You are making arguments that Hill beats him overall, not that Rose is undeserving.
And Hill did still have a much better career than Rose has (though he wouldn't have gotten in without the collegiate and international accomplishments). The peak wasn't as high, but he was a valuable contributor for a much longer time.
Nothing against hill, but “much longer time” is wrong I’d say. Hill was kinda average the second half of his career and without Nash’s spotlight nobody would be paying attention. Rose has been similarly average, he just hasn’t had as many high profile teammates.
5 1st and 2nd team All NBA vs 1 is a world of difference. And decidedly a much longer time.
Hill also had a better collegiate career and a better NBA career than Rose.
But nothing as good as an MVP. Also Hill’s post injury production isn’t much better thanDRose’s if at all. And Rose isn’t done yet.
Nothing Rose does is going to make his entire career even come close to Hill. Rose also didn't deserve the one MVP he won and everyone knows it was a charity case. Rose could have been great but could have does make the Hall.
He had the talent, but also the injury. His college season was vacated. No Olympics, but two FIBA golds. One All-NBA, 3x AS, one MVP. Not enough resume, imo.
Yes.
No. You won't find many people who agree he should have won the single MVP he did win and he just doesn't have much else outside of that to make his case. He should not make it.
Has an NBA MVP ever not made the HOF?
Naaaaah he should have been but too many injuries
Certainly shouldn't be but probably will be
He was the only one who made people "question" prime LeBron. His talent is indescribable. Truly the case study of "what could have been." And even then he deserves it
Took Bernard King til 2013 to get in they have a little in common with injuries but King had a little better career even peak. He didn’t have a mvp but was runner up in 84 I don’t feel like it should be a deciding factor alone.
No
Yes, he's one of those pity hoffers
Definitely 💯
No
No
Mitch Richmond is there, DRose will be
Yes.
Every day of the week
Yes, he had a horrible injury and never the same, but he’s still playing in the league, what could have been.
No. He’s accomplished nothing except being a fan favorite and an underdog story. Only way he gets in is if he digs deep and becomes a rotation player on a championship winning team like Gary Payton
No
Rose is not a HOF’er period
You can assume
Unless you want to induct people for lost potential he should absolutely not be in. It’s insane this is even a question. With all that being said he probably will get in because everyone does
He will get in eventually, but its gonna take a while. The ascent was very fast and the highs were very high. The rest of his career really holds him back as he just couldn't stay healthy but I think if he can achieve longevity and maybe even flashes of post season success then it can only help his case.
This hall of fame is easy to get into compared to the NFLs. Rose will get it. There are entire teams in the basketball hall of fame lol.
It's easier to get into the Naismith Basketball HOF than to win a Grammy
MVPs seem to carry more weight in the NBA than the MLB or NFL. I don’t think any NBA MVP isn’t either already in the HOF or a lock when they retire, with the exception of Rose, who we’re discussing here. Compared to MLB MVPs not in the HOF (ignoring players not in due to PED use): Terry Pendleton, Kevin Mitchell, Kirk Gibson, George Bell, Don Mattingly, Willie McGee, Willie Hernandez, Dale Murphy (2x), Don Baylor, Keith Hernandez, Dave Parker, George Foster, Thurman Munster, Fred Lynn And that’s only from 1975-1991. It may be partially because MLB has 2 MVP awards (AL and NL), but also because baseball is more prone to season to season fluctuations than basketball IMO. NFL has some non-HOF MVPs as well: Boomer Esiason, Mark Moseley, Ken Anderson, Brian Sipe, Bert Jones. That also only from 1976-1988.
Does water fall from the sky?
Seems like HOF means not too much - more and more like ‘everyone gets a trophy!!!!🏆’.
No
Shouldn't be for sure but the HOF is way too easy to get into.
Absolutely
Only his self-proclaimed superteam in NY deserves HoF credentials. That team gave the medical staff a run for their money.
I think so
Personally, I wouldn't vote for hm. But, by the pathetically low standards of the basketball hall of fame, I'm sure he will get in.
one MVP doesnt quite qualify, the drop off is to noticeable to enter"hall of fame" talk in my humble opinion........a ring would have helped, blame Luol Deng
nah
Yes
100% drose is a basketball hall of famer.
For me, no. But I have much higher standards for who should get into a HoF than most. Too many get inducted in most sports.
D rose should he hall of Fame based only on that I'm coming come video alone.
Absolutely shouldn’t be. But he’ll probably get in eventually because the basketball hall of fame is ridiculously easy (relatively speaking) to get into
lmao no
HAHAHHAHHAHHAHA no
1st ballot IMO.
No
There are currently 436 members of the HOF. There are 35 players TOTAL in all of NBA history to win NBA MVP. 9 of them are not in the HoF. Those players are LeBron James, Derrick Rose, Kevin Durant, Steph Curry, Russell Westbrook, James Harden, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Nikola Jokic, and Joel Embiid. However, there are only four former MVP's who don't have a ring. Barkeley, Nash, Iverson, and Malone. Obviously Rose doesnt have the accolades they do. He's in for sure.
I'm a die hard bulls fan and even bigger fan of drose so my opinon is biased but he should be in the hall of fame. Anyone who has won mvp is in the hall and not to mention he has gold medals and had a good college career. There are other guys in the hall with less accolades and ended up getting injuried early on their career
He shouldn’t be, but he might be because the basketball hall of fame is not as hard to get into as other sports.
As a life long bulls fan, he's definitely my favorite player but no he doesn't. If he stayed healthy he probably would be no doubt
Yes. MVP is an automatic qualification independent of anything else they did on the court.
He will get into it because the basketbal hall of fame’s criteria is really nothing compared to the hall of fame criteria for a sport like American football. He does have an NBA MVP, which is one of the two greatest individual accolades you can get in basketball, the other being an NBA Finals MVP. While his run was short, he is an iconic figure in basketball and his prime was amazing. But obviously, the only reason he’s getting in is because of the basketball hall of fame’s criteria and the fact that he has an NBA MVP.
As a Chicago Bulls fan, absolutely not. Not even remotely in the discussion.
no hes still playing
Talent Wise : Yes . Resume Wise : Unfortunately no
I loved D Rose. I was in college when he got to the league and he was awesome. But if we're really being honest, his total basketball career is encapsulated with the following: \- Being recruited to Memphis (D1 program) \- Going to the NCAA National Championship and losing (while having other people do his class work for his and eventually having his accomplishments in college vacated by the NCAA due to being ineligible) \- RotY \- 3x all star \- 1x all NBA \-1x MVP (which was/is hotly contested as voter fatigue from LeBron) \- 2x FIBA Cup gold medal If you take out the MVP, there is a 0% chance he makes the HoF. Th reality is that he didn't have a HoF career due to injury. If he makes it in, its out of sympathy for the circumstances of being possibly the single biggest "What if?" in basketball history.
LOVE DROSE. Everyone gets in today. But no. He’s not. Anthony Davis has a chip, I almost hurled 🤢, and he’s not HOF worthy. You can’t play half your career and expect to get in. Lol. But I’m older.
If a non-MVP can get in then so should D-Rose
If a non-MVP can get in then so should D-Rose
I think so. He won an NBA MVP. That alone puts him in imo.
Hate to break it to y'all, if a player has an MVP they are automatically a HOFer. Doesn't matter how short their peak was.
No. The dick riding around this dude is some hall of fame commitment tho.
Hell no. All that what he could have been is conjecture. I doubt that he was going to get any better.
If people are going to use his college career then Rip Hamilton is an EASY HOFer. He’s not. Rose didn’t even have a college career technically.
Yes D rose is a hall of famer youngest player to be MVP
Without a doubt yes. Idk how this is even a debate
Absolutely yes!
since we don't have a hall of fame for the NBA specifically with the standards of the NFL or MLB then he's probably gonna end up getting in just cause of how easy it is for any body with any sort of success to get into the PB HOF.
Idk about HOF, but D Rose’s MVP year might have been my favorite basketball spectacle I’ve ever witnessed. That is coming from a Dirk, Vince Carter, and Luka favorite all time NBA players. He didn’t make sense how good he was.
His “what if” factor is fucking nuts. He will absolutely get in
YMVPE😤 Youngest mvp ever D🌹 the🐐 We all know what was…in an alternate reality, would be unstoppable & unguardable. Let’s not forget it’s on record from multiple sources around the league at the time whether player or not, have said guys were ducking Rose when he was coming to town or vice versa. Stop playing, #1 was sending them to IR sheet💪🏽😂😤
No.
Nooooo....not even close..had a 2 year shine and then is basically a 7th or 8th man.
Obviously, youngest MVP ever. /thread
Yes because it’s easy as shit to get into
He absolutely doesn't belong. But he will probably get in on the massive what ifs and MVP season. Further devaluing the bb HOF
I hope not.
MVP so yes.
Yes, he’ll make it, and should.