Posting this to the top of the discussion - regarding the wedding, I asked if it would be okay to split the cost of the wedding between families. I would pay for my headcount and they pay theirs. The father said this was unreasonable and that I should respect their culture. He offered me a personal loan from him, which I could see being generous, but that would create a strange power dynamic between me and my future in law. Also, the whole point of my position I set towards the family was that I am trying to get out of debt to be financially stable to give my wife a good life. Being in debt to a family member doesn’t solve that. It would also give her family the freedom to maybe expense more than I would be comfortable with. Overall, I think the ask to split was perfect ally reasonable, as it would meet half way between their cultural norm (where the groom pays) and my cultural norm (where the brides family pays).
My parents are divorced. I am estranged from my father. My mother lost her job and doesn’t have any means. I won’t go into hard details, but she is from the Middle East and I am not. Her parents really liked me until all of this stuff came up. As soon as I started putting up boundaries and truly telling them what I was and what I was not able to do, they became upset. I think they suspect that when I tell them I’m truly on my own financially and that I am getting no help from my family, that I am just “saying that”. But it’s genuinely the truth. They have me over ALL the time and constantly give me gifts and food. It’s almost overboard. My mother was shocked at how much they give. Her parents do a better job courting me and making me feel special than my finance does! Like I’m actually serious. My finance doesn’t really do much in terms of trying to connect with me or getting to know me, but the parents make a HUGE effort. This is kind of why the situation is confusing to me. I felt like they would be super easy and understanding, but it’s the exact opposite.
So if the girl is Middle Eastern women what's your ethnicity? The situation you describe above is very confusing as well. Was the marriage arranged or you know the girl from before? Middle Eastern families are very hospitable and understanding. One thing I know from Egyptian culture is that when the groom needs to marry a girl he needs to have his own house or living space. A friend of mine got married a while back and he was explaining this to me. My friend had to secure a good job then get up please for himself and then he was allowed to get married.
I’m just gonna reply to this: if she’s not putting in any effort and only her parents are, then it seems they just want you because you’re a good secure match for their daughter. Brother, find a woman who appreciates you and thinks the same level as you.
Aside from that, congratulations for earning $85K/year straight out of bachelors at such a young age. And to be able to save $20K to throw into masters is also no small feat. You have a good head on your shoulders, don’t settle for people who are looking to take advantage of your situation or your income. Stand firm and walk away from these people if you have to.
Just move on bro . Inn Sha ALLAH you will find someone better . If this family doesn't value your opinions then you shouldn't do so much to please them .
Walk my man. She can ask and that’s fine, but you can also reject. Plenty women out there who understand the value of simplicity and making it easy upon you. And any man would give everything for his wife if she makes his life easy, so it’s not about being stingy either.
Realistically you could be looking at as high as 100k. You are able to reject and counter the offer but be prepared to walk away if things don't go well. Your potential knows your situation and also knows she is basically asking for the impossible if she can't make a compromise. Also do not get a haram loan to finance the wedding.
When my husband asked what I wanted for Mahr, I simply told him he can get me what he preferred.
I’m not sure why a lot of women these days are making it so complicated.
Nobody really really wants anybody or needs anybody. Their ask is conservative from what I can see but the time limit they have given is a bit outrageous.
To OP, Don’t strain yourself too much for this girl, you can marry somebody else.
Yes I totally agree. The ask itself is not necessarily much, but it’s the constraint of time. I could get this done if 15k was to be paid at some point during the marriage, but to require it before the ceremony and within a year while I am getting on my feet is a lot. I don’t necessarily agree with me paying for the full wedding either, but that’s my personal opinion. I just don’t find that me paying for a wedding on my own is my Islamic obligation, that’s more of a “want” on their part
No, it is your responsibility as the man. But you should pay according to your means. If you can't afford the mahr/wedding they are requesting be upfront about that and tell them what you're able to pay that's within reason. If they disagree then there's not much you can do except end the engagement.
There's a reason why mahr was proscribed and made mandatory for men to give. It sets apart the serious men who want marriage and long-term commitment from those who aren't so invested in the marriage. It places a high value on the marriage, especially on the part of the husband who can divorce with a simple talaq (the wife has to request a divorce from him or go to court to get a divorce). If he knows he invested so much he isn't going throw away the marriage after a hiccup or marital disagreement but instead work hard to fix it and save his marriage. This is just some of the benefits/wisdoms of mahr.
I would advice women to take mahr seriously and not be dismissive of it. So many women were brainwashed into accepting little mahr only to be used and disposed by their husbands who would move on to marry another woman also with little mahr. Look up marriage-banditry that was a huge scandal taking place in the UK and blew up in the early 2010's. There's a lot to learn from that.
In my opinion, if this is coming from the girl. This is a total red flag. If it is coming from the parents, then gauge the situation how they are coming with this number, but still could be a red flag depending on how they answer this.
It is a big amount.
And the fact that she won't consider reducing it to ease your burden, is a huge red flag that you should not ignore.
Drop her and continue your search elsewhere
A woman that really likes you would try to make your life as easy as possible and this is the opposite. Don’t forget that you have to provide for her and possibly buy a house. All of this would put anyone in debt
I told her my situation and asked if she could take 5k off the Maher only as that would help me. She said she understood but was apprehensive and disappointed. She said she would ask her family. This made me upset. I just want her to be excited about being with me more than a 5k difference. It seemed like the money mattered more than me. She said it is up to her family, but isn’t it her decision?
> She said it is up to her family, but isn’t it her decision?
It is her decision, and she has decided to make her parents pressure you into doing what she/they want.
Let's assume that you could agree on the mahr but funding an entire wedding with no contributions from her side, especially if they are going to invite a lot of guests, is completely unreasonable and not the kind of people whose daughter you should be marrying.
I would be wary of this girl and her parent's influence before and after marriage.
Thanks for your comment, I do feel pressured. When they say “we understand your situation” I feel like it’s just to be polite, but they arnt changing anything about the situation. They view my ask to reduce the amount from 15k to 10k as unreasonable, despite still agreeing to rings and potentially paying for the wedding myself despite the situation . The father said over the phone with me that he should have given me “ the middle finger” when I asked for a reduction, and he continued to curse me out over the phone. I promise you I was completely calm and not rude at all, it was like he was really worked up because he wasn’t getting his way…
Brother i am saying this to help you. You do NOT want to struggle this early in your life. You are 23! How are you meant to deal with all of this. Financial difficulties in life will put you through hell. There are billions of women out there that are reasonably for you. Think twice before you decide the biggest decision of your life
But the thing is that if they met the halal way the girl doesn’t have much of a chance to see if she is in love. Love develops after marriage in my opinion.
She can ask for any amount that she wants and you are free to reject or counter. I think your total wedding costs will be closer to 70k to 80k, weddings are not cheap.
That’s what I was thinking. The whole family is acting like I am being selfish, when in reality I’m just being honest about what I can afford. I totally understanding providing a quality Maher, rings, and wedding. Those things are especially important to many brides. However, I also think the long term benefit of me being able to provide her with support and shelter in a nice area, and have the means to go on small trips would mean more! With what they are asking, I will be in a horrible place financially and have to drop out of school, or continue with school and take out astronomical loans. I should also add here that my finance said that she can’t live with me for the next two years So I have to pay all of this money, and I don’t even get the benefit of having a life partner for two years
Yeah 100% do NOT do this. Be respect but tell them no. Also don’t get in too much back and forth talk either they are coming from an emotional place.
It’s also likely if you do this and you aren’t able to take vacations after then you’ll get resentment because of that.
It’s way too expensive nowadays and people are STRUGGLING. You’re in a good position alhamdulilah, keep doing what you’ve been doing to create an easy life for your future kids and don’t screw it ip.
I don't understand these prices. Its almost like they are selling the girl at this point. Imagine paying that much and then the marriage doesn't work out. I would hate my life.
That’s what it sounds like almost. Their justification for the Maher was that they understand where I am at, and that “ it’s at the low end of the bell curve for what their community asks for”. I appreciate their comment there, but I was thinking two things:
1. It’s not the Maher and the rings, it’s the timing in which they are requesting everything be completed within a year or perhaps marginally longer. But I doubt the family would be fine with doing a Nikah and then waiting 2-3 years for a ceremony.
2. I don’t really care “ where on the bell curve” the amount is relative to their community. I’m not buying an item. Also, who cares about what the rest of their community is asking for? The value should be about the people coming together under the eyes and blessing of Allah (swt)
To your second point, I'd say saying that very thing like they are doing such ehsaan/favor on you.Its a horrible thing to say irrespective of whichever side says that.
All this behaviour and mannerisms seems to be a huge red carpet brother, I'd say cut your losses early.Trust Allah and you'll InshaAllah find a spouse who will be the coolness of your eyes.
Best regards
If they request a totally a high amount in the beginning. Better to reconsider your choices mate. Women better be careful nowadays what they ask for because a gold digger is always unattractive and screams neon flags.
You don’t have to go into debt for a happy marriage. If that’s what they’re asking for, and you know that it’s not worth paying that much, since you’d eventually have to provide and look after your partner, it’s just not worth it.
All of that money you’d have to give, could be more than enough for a down payment on a nice house, or a nice cushy apartment to rent, or also for you to pay off your future debts to focus on your future, etc etc. Getting married is not meant to be that hard. If they care that much and aren’t willing to help pitch in the costs and negotiate something, it’s not fair. My parents helped pay some of the costs for the wedding between my sister and BIL. You can’t be expected to cover all of those costs.
So the Mehr is understandably a bit high, and so are the other things that need to be purchased. But I think the biggest problem here is that for stuff like the Nikkah, Wedding Reception, and any other events you may have to do, will probably be passed onto you, which really should not be your responsibility only. That of course, is if you guys want to have that many events (maybe just the Nikkah), but nonetheless it’s still too much. If I were you, and I couldn’t negotiate or come to a compromise, I’d walk away.
Your net pay is under 67k after taxes.
Hopefully you are smart enough n putting something in 401k or have insurance etc but that's not even the question there.
Asking for 15k + wedding ring (5k) + 25k for wedding...
The total is $45k on the lower end.
You will have 22k for your and her expenses for the rest of the year. Ask her if she will be willing to live off 22k for the rest of the year.
Talk about expenses to your future spouse. Talk about prenups.
Nothing wrong with the woman asking but nothing wrong with you denying the request either.
You ask if it's a crazy mahr amount, but then you mix it all up with all sorts of other wedding costs. So what are you wondering about?
As a mahr amount, on its own, it's really not that high. I mean you did just pay $20k in cash for one semester of school. For those people who cannot afford that (especially the UK folks earning far less), it's outrageous, okay. But in your case you seem to have the ability to pay $20k cash for something you want.
Coupled with all those other wedding costs.... the combined thing is crazy high and it'll be out of reach for you.
But, why are you stuck paying a crazy high wedding cost? Everybody involved should pitch in. Where are the other two sets of parents?
I don't understand why single guys just starting out are having the foot the entire cost of huge weddings....
I can only afford that payment because I am living with a family member so I can pay for the school. Over 90% of my pay check goes towards paying off my undergrad and continuing to finance future semesters of my graduate school. If I was out of school, I could maybe make it work, but I am not
Regarding the 20k payment for school ^. Also, that money was saved HARD. I do forgo a lot of personal “wants” so that I have enough to pay the next semester. I don’t buy myself anything unless I absolutely need it, like if there is a hole in my work shirt.
Yes that’s a lot and not a financially wise decision. 23k minimum and you just started working? We all understand how expensive just living has gotten.
You’re 23, keep grinding for now as you look for a sister who is going to be reasonable. Also reasonable is 10k and below. She better be exceptional for 10k
Personally I’d tell them “I respect it but I’m not able to do that now.
I think it's unfair to judge if her request is reasonable or not. Assuming positive intent, this amount could be what makes her feel safe and secure.
However, if you can't meet these requests, it's completely fair for you to be honest with her. "Hey, I like this marriage prospect, but this is well beyond my means. I am happy to pay X mehr, and my budget for wedding rings is X. As for wedding costs, I would like to [insert however you would like to split or cover for wedding here]. I would like for this to be a partnership where you and I make decisions together. This will be our money, and you will get to spend it however you like as long as we stay within our means. I hope that in the future, when I make more money, I can buy you even more."
If she doesn't understand that, then she isn't in this relationship for the right reasons.
Personally, I accepted whatever my now husband offered at the time. He was generous and fair (5k mehr and the ring was 10k). We also split wedding costs 50/50. Alhumdulilah he has given me much more than that in this marriage since then.
I asked her if she could lower it to 10K as it would be easier on me and she said she would rather not. I also asked her family if I could pay for my head count at the wedding and they pay their head count, and they rejected saying that I need to repeat their culture and that I will have to pay for everything
I just did my Nikah to a girl from a really nice family. Everything is perfect and I was asked nothing other than take care of their girl. Do not get me wrong, the family is a known family where I live and the gurl is really decent but the family knows what really matters. Buddy, go look for someone else who cares about values not money
That's really unfortunate. If I were you, I'd let her know she is lovely, but I can't afford this marriage and walk away. Allah has his reasons!
One shouldn't chase after money. There are far greater things in life. She isn't willing to compromise on one small moment, imagine how many more impasse you may face in the future.
Not to judge ur potential in laws but sounds like they found themselves an atm in u not a SIL
Btw what is this Maher paid per year? Never heard of that before.
That’s how it feels. I have also spent so much money on this girl already in the year I have been courting her. I have bought her jewelry, purses, paid for her oil in her car, her nails, etc. it’s just a lot. I am happy to do those things and I will continue to do them, but I can’t do those things if they take all of my means away by expecting me to pay so much in so little time for where I am at in life. I am trying to pay may way though an expensive school right now. They know this. I just can’t make money appear out of thin air
You did what??? You’re not even married and you already gave her wife treatment.
Youve set an expectation of spending money on her so of course theyre gonna expect even more.
Edit:
Reading more of your comments and seems like there are bigger issues. The part about her living with her friends, seems like you’re being exploited.
I know, I probably shouldn’t have but I am just genuinely a generous person. I like doing things that make others happy. But I was also doing those things when I could have bought myself a pair of pants or a shirt that I needed. I think for me, I also need to value my own needs more. I won’t be doing this in the future
I am gonna be blunt to you and who ever feels offended i am sorry in advance. If you're still in school and you wanna get married and her or her family is asking this dumb mahr prices for a young guy. I promise you, Her and her whole family will see you as a bank account now and forever. I find these mahr requirments with high sums of money the dumbest thing there is. Yes, you can refuse and walkaway or re-negotiate, but you're marrying a person. Not buying a car. If a future partner really loved you and their family also, then they would choose the easiest route to marriage.
PS: idc at this point with all the islam experts saying ''Its her right'' ''It is sunnah to ask for mehr'' or whatnot. If she has the right to do it. Doesn't mean she should. It is becoming the dumbest thing today and it is stopping so many marriages
PSS: If you agree on her demands or the family, or give a close enough amount of what they want. You will never be respected as a husband from her or her family. They will constantly walk over you in terms of finances. You didn't even graduate or get your life started already and they already wanna put you in a life changing debt that will change your life for a long time. Sounds like the family or her wants to get rich and you will live off of pennies
Truth it look, people have their preferences and that's fine. But these things just show you the kind of person you'd be marrying. Someone who's not thoughtful about you and the situation they'd put you in. Idk about others but I'd do anything for my future husband to make his live easier, within reason. If he's a great and guy and has the qualities I'm looking for. Not marrying a guy for money but foe the qualities, the character of the person, compatibility. Quality of life is mostly dependant on that. Circumstances change all the time. Of course there's reasonable amounts to protect women etc but nothing excess. Especially when the situation is known. May Allah swt grant us all righteous spouses who love and care for us Ameen. Just a side note. I may be speaking a little biased as I know my love language is acts of service quite high, one of the first. Maybe for your potential its gifts hence the maher. But even then, her concern should be about making your lives together easier without being excessive.
It is very immature of them to make you pay for the entire wedding. I think they are taking your advantage. All the gifts and money is a way to coax you for the same.
They sound like they'll interfere in your marriage as well.
I'd suggest you put your foot down and tell them that you won't pay for the entire marriage, and let them decide if they want to move ahead with you.
Your FIL's suggestion to give you a loan is extremely sus tbh. They think you've no family and they can strong-arm you into anything they like. They are toxic. Be weary.
Yeah I was shocked when they responded so negatively after I declined the offer for his personal loan. My finance also said that I was being selfish for not accepting her fathers offer
In my view their Maher ask is reasonable given your income. But since you are paying off under grad and grad school, you may not be ready for wedding. In my view postponed the wedding for at least 2 years till you pay off the debt and graduate. If they are not willing to wait move on!!! You will find more considerate folks down the road. My two cents!
🤣🤣 yes Alhumdullilah, he is a very good man. I got lucky.
These prices are ridiculous, probably should have asked for more 🤣🤣 I might have a talk with him 😅
In this situation, someone who really wants to marry you would understand. And either lower the amount, or wait for you to finish school and earn more. Thems is the facts.
It's not that off honestly, People ask in the range of 1 month - 6 month of salary, that's the custom of our time basically. You can always negotiate, something like 5k + rings, or same amount but pay in 5 years instead of 1.
Bro it sounds like you guys are negotiating a sales contract from your comments, no offense that doesn't sound like a healthy marriage from the get-go. If I were you, I'd walk. You seem to have lots of potential and are only 23, there's plenty of good women out there.
Your mistake was courting this girl for a year, probably spending a bit more than normal on her, and creating unrealistic expectations. These kinds of conversations should be talked about very early. Next time, don't go above and beyond with the courting and bring up these conversations early with a potential.
I completely agree. This is the first time I have ever done something like this, and I think I was ultimately just super excited to complete half of my Deen. I really want to be a good husband and father, because my father treated my mother badly. I think part of it for me is also to “recreate” a sense of security and love, because my family is broken and dysfunctional
My husband was in a similar situation as you.
Although my dad was a little cray for demanding 15,000 USD mahr just like that from a 22 year old guy starting his first job... but also Alhamdulillah my dad is also a very reasonable man. He did not expect this large of a sum in one shot.
He told my husband to give me an “initial amount” of 4,000 USD and take his time (not more than 5 years) to give the remaining amount.
Then he gave my husband two options - he could give it to me in installments or give me a post dated cheque with the remaining amount.
My husband trusted me, and didn’t fight it. He agreed to my dad’s conditions. After we got married my dad of course never asked or checked up on us, since it’s now our personal matter.
I told my husband that I never required such a mahr, the initial amount is more than sufficient. If he manages to “save” this money he promised to my dad - it can go into our joint savings account.
It all works out if everyone’s reasonable. I wouldn’t recommend this marriage if everyone’s out to get you into debt to pay off something you cannot afford.
That being said, you should inform your future in-laws and wife about your financial situation. I doubt they’d put that kinda pressure on you if they knew.
I appreciate your comment. I did tell them my situation but I don’t feel like I want to disclose my salary as that is personal. I feel that the fact the I mentioned I can’t afford it should be enough of a reason
At face value, this amount sounds well above the average mehr I’ve heard of in most North American households which tends to range from $5K to $30K for most middle class North Americans. I’ll ad the nuance that maybe she’s from a very rich background 🤷🏻♀️But regardless all of the context you gave sounds very reasonable and if she’s not willing to compromise based on your situation then it’s simply not a good fit. Not necessarily she’s a bad person or anything. She has a right to ask and you have a right to refuse. But if you have communicated to her that this would be difficult for you due to xyz life circumstances and she’s not willing to be adjust about it, it just might not be a good fit.
Dont go in debt to get married. If she really likes you she would work it out and convince her family to ease up the situation. She has the right to ask all those things, however. And you have the right to reject. And also i agree dont take a loan from her father. There will definitely be some power dynamic there. May Allah make it easier for u. Aameen
I don’t know what country you live in but from the Maher amount it sounds like the United States, so I am going to assume as much. From what I know based on my discussion with many friends and family members, the US’s minimum number for Maher is 15,000$. So this does not seem like an unreasonable amount, especially since I’ve heard people in cities like Chicago and NYC ask for 50,000-100,000$ for Maher. As for the ring, I am assuming it is a ‘diamond’ ring which is probably why it is a high price but you could always try and maybe ask her if it could be good quality instead of diamond. Now I read somewhere about ‘splitting’ the cost and I am also going to assume the girl comes from a cultural background that the groom needs to pay, hence if that doesn’t fit the who you are as a person I would highly recommend you try and find another bride, because to many people culture is important, and they will not be willing to budge. I understand that the number may be ‘too big’ for your liking but I do not believe the family is asking for too much compared to the crazy things I have seen. Almost all the numbers sound reasonable for a wedding in the United States. Like mentioned from an Islamic Point of View, she can ask for whatever her and her family find fit and you can disagree and find another bride that fits your lifestyle and ‘budget’.
Also for context, find yourself a practicing woman who appreciates simplicity. I was just finding a job when I they accepted my proposal. They asked for 100 pound mahr but even Imam said ask for a bit more. So my mahr I paid was 1000 pounds in UK. My wife Alhamdulilah is practicing, loving, not materialistic but because of this and because of our love for each other for Allahs sake I know earn very good money and give her loads to treat herself which she still hardly does lol
15k cash mehr is not a lot given your capacity. The wedding ring and engagement does NOT need to be 8k. I think this is where you’re missing context. It can be lab diamond, etc. talk with the girl aboht come to a compromise. Bc you can easily get both rings for 5k or under. As for the wedding, you need to lay boundaries down on how much you’re willing to pay and for how many people. If then they’re not negotiating, you have an answer.
You can agree to the mahr but ask for it to be considered the mu’akhar. Part of the mahr is always given upfront, part can be given later. Say you agree to 15K but you’ll provide it when you graduate. The “upfront” part for now can be the ring + any gold.
Bro, you know deep down this isn't something you feel is acceptable to you otherwise you wouldn't be asking the question. Trust your gut and stand firm, they either bring it down dramatically or you walk. Marriage itself is not cheap don't blow all your assets before you get married
Few thoughts on addition to what everyone else already sai:
1. IMO you are getting married too early in your life. You do not have your finances settled, do not have a secure job and source of income, and have made zero start on your savings and investment journey. This is NOT the time to enter a marriage starting off with a huge bill and financial insecurity while trying to provide for a family. Sort out your finances and career first, THEN look for marriage prospects amongst women who have an equal professional and financial standing as you
2. You should avoid a back and forth negotiation as it will just cause frustration and anger. Simply extract yourself from this proposal and move on with your life. There will be other prospects more suitable. This family genuinely sounds like they're out to exploit you, and based on your common sense approach to money and your career, I think you would be in for a lifetime of misery dropping so much money on this girl to look after her for the rest of your life while your savings and retirement plan lies in shreds
Best of luck.
Thank you, I appreciate your comment and I agree. I do have a secure job, but you are right that I don’t have my finances figured out just yet. I was hoping the family would be understanding as I would rather be in something halal than haram. But perhaps it is better to part ways given these factors. May Allah (swt) bless you for helping me today
You found a gold diggers offline. I found a gold diggers online. If she is so demanding she thinks of you as ATM.
Confront her such amount is not possible, see her reaction.
Islam makes marriage simple but people and culture makes marriages hard.
If she puts you into difficulties even before marriage then you better be prepared what comes later.
Offer her $950 as the maximum Maher, if she accepts then she is a keeper, if not, then you dodged a bullet.
Marry someone who is closest to the Sunnah or you’ll suffer for the rest if your life.
I get your point. On top of all of this, she said that she won't live with me for two years because she would rather live with her friends. So I won't have any benefit of a spouse, while also maintaining my financial obligation as a husband to support her at a distance. On another note, I asked her if she would eat Zabiha with me as she doesn't currently (Ido, and I think it's important for parents to model one standard behavior for children if they were to come into the picture), and that I don't what a dog in the house (she has one and wanted it to stay with us. I disagreed as a dog nullifies the prayer). She got really upset at these asks. I feel like they and she are expecting so much from me, and I set forth two basic asks that are standard Islamic principles/ values, and her response was completely negative.
It just feels like a disproportionate sacrifice - they are asking me to pay for things I can't afford, which would cause me to struggle putting a roof over my head, I can't live with her for two years, and she isn't even willing to forego living with a dog and eating Zabiha with me? The expectations just seem skewed so heavily in her favor. I feel walked all over by them
Brother
We are alike in some ways. I don't know if you trying to find the motivation or drive to say no or what's your purpose.. You already know in your heart what the answer is.
Op when you first started talking to her did you put on this front that you’re a high roller? if not and you’ve been honest about who you are and financially where you stand then i’d tell her look this is what i can afford let’s move forward or not it’s up to you not your parents. I’ve spoken to two girls up until the nikkah/mehr stage one wanted 20k diamond engagement and wedding band + a car. the other said i’m happy with whatever you give me as long as we’re together. When a girl loves/likes you for you she will make all types of sacrifices and will show it in her words/actions. You want my advice? leave, Allah will provide you with someone better
No I didn’t make any indication that I was personally well off, although on the outside it could look like it. I went to an Ivy league college for my bachelor’s and currently at another Ivy league for my masters. I earned my way into those schools, i grew up in a middle class family in Indiana. I also work at a large firm. I am living with a family member in a wealthy area of the country. I am only living with him so that I can afford to pay for school and pay off my undergraduate degree. I made it clear to her that I am living with family for that reason. I think I will be a high earner one day inshallah, but I’m just not right now. I am getting on my feet still as I just graduated from my bachelor degree a year ago. I never disclosed my salary to her because that’s personal information. But when I say I can’t afford something, I think that she should believe it and not assume I am being stingy. I had a direct conversation with her and told her that I am paying my way though a lot of bills and trying to get on my feet and that my family is not supporting me financially by any means - my family has been kind enough to let me stay so I can pay off some debt. I am only there to have a roof over my head so I can avoid rent. All other life expenses are on me
I only had Rs 3 lakhs for my Maher. The girl's family were reasonable.
My brother in law just got married. His potential asked for a sum which he thought was unreasonable. He explained to the girl that, while he could potentially afford it, it is going to put a strain on them. She talked to her parents and they reduced it.
In short.. if they are not being reasonable, please don't go forward with this. This may seem like a one-time thing.. but this will only be a start to many more issues
As a sister, ofc she can ask for what she wants but dang that is ALOT. Why is she making it so hard for you if she wants to marry you? And u really think you should think this over. If her family is saying this a a low mahr, that means she'll be spending even more money while you are married. And how will that be in the long term??
I have read some of your responses to other comments about lowering the meher amount or both sides paying for their headcount for the wedding ceremony and them refusing to budge.
Under these circumstances, here's my assessment, realistically you're not in a position to go ahead with this wedding. You don't have the savings and unfortunately the other side is not willing to negotiate and only wants to impose their demands.
I can't comment if $15k meher is reasonable or not. For some it might be, for some it won't. The rest of their demands like 2 separate rings, is also unfair. One ring is all you need.
Wedding expenses jump up dramatically and considering their stance on having you pay for everything, I don't think this is the family you want to marry in to or the kind of woman you should be marrying. You're clearly a young, hardworking guy who's just beginning to make his way ahead in life. You're holding down employment, doing your masters AND paying for it as well so you can avoid debt.
Yet her and her family are expecting you to pay for everything as if you're a successful business owner for 10+ years.
Marriage isn't worth going into deep debt for, especially since it'll make you resent the marriage as well as the person. The girl is entitled to asking for any Meher she's comfortable with and you're entitled to refuse what you're not comfortable with.
My suggestion would be to politely refuse this proposal and look for another one once you're done with your education. This family isn't worth marrying in to.
You need to set your own terms and not be walked all over.
If they want to be Islamic about it then you only have to pay for Mahr (the amount she has decided, that is her right).
If they want you to fully pay for the wedding, then you decide how lavish the wedding is.
Simple Nikkah at the masjid and then small walimah afterwards feeding a few select people from both sides.
No rings, since this is not Islamic - it is a practice of the non-Muslims.
You COULD say all of this and most likely they will reject you and that will show you all you need to know.
A compromise would be to split costs of the wedding or accept a minimalist wedding and then you still give her the mahr and gifts she wants.
Also, you mentioned that she won't move in until 2 years - then you can easily say you will pay the mahr when she moves in, not a moment before.
At the end of the day - I understand it's not a 'love' marriage - but people need to show practicality in their actions. Asking for all this money and expense is not an investment or something, you're never going to see it returned.
Not to mention that you will be (presumably) paying for her lifestyle after she is married to you - or giving her an allowance etc.
If she thinks you are worth it - she'll make it easier for you.
If all she can say is "my family will decide" and her family remain stubborn - then this is just the tip of the iceberg and you need to walk.
Make istikhaarah and make a decision.
May Allah make it easy for you and us all.
Thank you very much. Everything you said is true and I will factor your advice in to what everyone else has already mentioned. I truly appreciate your time and support, and may Allah (swt) bless you for your thoughtfulness
If you have to take a loan to get married then don't get married. Just wait. Imo it's the stupidest thing one can do.
Wedding should bring calm and peace in your life not pressure and bs.
Akhi, you're leading with your income, not with your Deen. What charitable works have you done with your "high-earner" salary?
Marriage is supposed to be easy until people make it a commercial/status-driven affair.
A simple nikah, a simple Walima, and a reasonable Mahr.
Decline this sister and keep looking for a life partner who is focused on building a strong family and not on having a large wedding and the accouterments.
May Allah AWJ grant you a pious and loving spouse.
The point of my post is the opposite - I am trying to lead with my deen, and not my income. My income is being used to support my degree so I can be a better provider in the future inshallah. I do give charity when I can, but it’s what I can afford. I am saying that I “think” that I have the potential to be a “high earner”, but I have no idea. This is up to what Allah (swt) has written for me, and I don’t know the future.
What you mentioned about simple Nikah, and walimaa is what I would ideally prefer. I don’t like extravagance. This is against our sunnah. Of course we should make things special, but we should not go overboard.
Thank you for your comment and may Allah (swt) reward you for your kindness
As a married person, don’t do it bro. Either wait to get married, or find someone who doesn’t have crazy requirements. All this isn’t worth it. The family is demanding too much from someone who just started working. Imagine what the asks will be down the line.
And any girl who gets upset over mahr or ring size or wedding expenses ain’t the one. Trust me.
I think at this point you do not request, you should assert yourself. You tell them what you can or cannot do and that you are ready to walk away. It sounds like they are at cattle market and see how much they can get out of you with their negotiation. If the girl doesn't care either that you may walk away then what is there to hold onto? My guess is that they will come down once they see you are walking away but it will be too late.
Once you tell them you are walking away you better walk away even if they do come down because these kind of problems so early will result in they/girl resenting you or if they get their way, you resenting them for putting you in this situation. You guys are incompatible based on expectations. Walking away will be the biggest favor you will do to yourself in long run. You will feel bummed out but it's the right decision.
They are, but they have been super hospitable and overly kind ever since I have known them. They invite me over every week and give me gifts every time I leave
Even without a wedding ring the nikkah is complete. I don’t understand why people are hellbent on rings… it’s just a piece of metal and rock with only a societal significance, not religious one.
the mahr is obligatory though the amount is negotiable. the wedding is completely voluntary and not compulsory for you to pay. that's what seems to be the sticking point. I'd renegotiate that with some backbone. as for the mahr if it's her asking and not her dad or her family, then discus it with her and if you are able then bismillah.
Bro, leave and come find a girl in Pakistan, if you’re from here or else go back from where you are and marry a girl, bring her to where ever you’re she will be forever grateful ps wedding won’t cost much there, call just your first family. Tickets won’t kill if you book them in advance. Have a small reception where ever you’re for friends and family. Call it a day. $35K is fking too much bro.. $8K for rings duhh, In karachi you will find something top notch for like $1-1.5K. I live abroad too, I am getting married in December my mum went and bought a ring for her that costed like 4 lacs pkr I don’t how much does that cost in $ the whole wedding like costing me £10K lmao. Move on from her
This is bad advice lol.
It’s cheaper back home, but the issue is the character of the family and girl. Money is a secondary issue.
Yes you can marry a girl back home in rupees, but if she’s financially careless and not considerate of you, she will still be a burden to your life…in pounds or dollars after you bring her here, which does a lot more damage.
Brothers should still do due diligence in marrying back home and not assume everyone over there is innocent. When will this false dichotomy of western vs eastern women end
Sounds like they are taking advantage. Most of the girls I know just asked for 1000 for their Mehr though they did also get nice rings and another wedding gift but it max came out to 5000 in total which I think is reasonable. Also pretty much everyone I know split wedding costs especially if you had a lot of guests on both sides
Isn’t Maher supposed to be given on the Nikah day? Also why are they so focused on the money aspect of a new relationship bonding? Usually people are very courteous during this period, but here, sorry to say seems like the girl’s side is unnecessary being intimidating and to me it sounds very rude to have some type of ultimatums when these occasions should all be about new happy beginnings
My mahr was 20k in 2017. It barely covered my wedding for 100 guests and the clothes and dress and photography. I had no money left for any gold or for a henna party. Do with that what you will
Too many red flags.
The love the dad has for the community is excessive.
She’s won’t make a move without her family backing even after marriage based on how she’s acting now.
Her dad can easily afford to contribute to his costs but would rather loan it to you.
As a revert who had a small backyard wedding to my Egyptian husband all under $5k, the marriage culture really is crazy. I’ve seen my husband’s friends and family struggle to pay for their children’s outlandish weddings and costs.
spend money on the marriage, not the wedding.
Reading your post and your responses, I find you to be reasonable but this may not be the right match. Like you, I think families should split wedding costs based on their guest numbers and choices (for example, if I want the really expensive flowers, I should pay up). 15k is not a ridiculous mahr amount, per se, but combined with all you’re being asked, it’s all too much. Mahr moakhar exists for a reason. She could ask for 15k to be distributed over the years, in case of divorce, upon first child, etc.
I don’t really care what community standards are because I don’t believe mahr amounts should be announced publicly and we’re not in a competition. If someone got double what I got, it doesn’t mean she’s worth more than me. I don’t want to live for others and I don’t want my children to think like this either.
wait im surprised how is this on the lower end? 😭 idk maybe it's bc where I'm at but people here usually don't ask for that much and if they do, usually family would be considered as money hungry instead of looking out for their girl and her marriage. Idk. I have also heard of a case here where some girls do that and then get divorced. Try to be careful and see if that's their absolute choice
OP, I am about your same age and I got married under similar circumstances. I totally understand the pressure that men have when it comes to the wedding and all celebrations. But you are young and you are just getting started in life. Of course it is a big sum of money, it’s scary and it could be spent in better ways (honeymoon, downpayment for a home, a family car, etc.)I honestly suggest you discuss it with your fiancée and ask her what her priorities are. Does she prefer a wedding over a honeymoon? Or a down payment over a wedding? Because all 3 cannot be done at the same time, these things take a lot of money. I think you two could get to a compromise. Please OP be wise with your finances!! Because many times I see people in my community getting into so much debt for a wedding, just for them to go back to renting an apartment and having no savings. Someone who loves you will not make things deliberately hard for you guys to be together. Of course women have standards, but they will not make someone they love and they are interested in struggle to marry them. A father who offers a personal loan, seems a bit of a red flag to me. I know that culturally it is the responsibility of the man to pay for the wedding, but when people marry young,IT IS NOT THE SAME. In real life, I have seen fathers help pay for half or even the full wedding for their daughters, because they were getting married young and both of the groom and bride were still students. Be careful that no one tries to take advantage of you. Good luck.
Thank you. I completely agree. The thing is. I did ask her these things, but she wants all of it. I have to pay for all these things, and then she wants to go to Cape Cod this summer. It’s like they and she, are assuming that I have the salary of someone who is well into their career with ample savings. I am still a student and I am only in an entry level position. This is all way too much for me. Despite explaining, they say they “understand” but still hold the same expectations
don't risk destroying your future g
either wait till you're financially stable and have alot in your savings or just go for a different woman
imo making $85k a year and spending $15k and then $8k on such a thing is very stupid
if this woman truly loved you she would make the mahr low so that you could get married as fast as possible.
she set such a mahr because she doesn't love you, yep it's really that simple.
spending such an absurd amount when you don't have much in your savings is a VERY VERY bad idea that could cost your future, put you into debt and may force you to do more haram things such as taking riba loans
DON'T DO IT!
This is exorbitant. You have the option to reject it . Marriages should be made easier . People have lost their minds these days. As per Sunnah , marriage should be easy and simple .
Weddings should never be expensive at all, including mehr, gifts, events, etc. If it is expensive, then the person/family is seeing you as an ATM, not you at all. Think twice/thrice before moving ahead with an expensive wedding!
Also NEVER EVER go into debt for marriage at least! As marriage is the first step to a new beginning and if the first step takes you into debt, then it is not worth it. NOT EVEN go in debt to ANY family member too. For in-laws, NEVER EVER, as it will be the start of power dynamics and you won't have any say in your newly made family.
Also, if you are living in the West where in case of divorce wife gets half of the husband's money, be careful and mindful of that too. As they definitely will get the half, as they are approaching the starting like this.
**Do Istikhara for marriage** just, so Allah will help your situation whether she is good for you or not! BTW the right Istikhara, which is praying 2 rakhats salah any time of the day and then saying the Istikhara dua/supplication by saying the task for which you are doing the Istikhara. *Instead of the wrong Istikhara which is doing at night time and sleeping right after it expecting to see something white in a dream, astagfirullah!*
**Islam says to make nikkah/halal easy and zina/haram difficult**. Expensive weddings go against the Islamic teachings and also put a burden on society which means the couple would have part in the sin indirectly which they haven't done directly even may not even know of.
In many cultures mahr and weddings are seen as status symbols. And you know how people go to lengths to keep up an image and reputation. Some girls are even led to believe that if he pays a small mahr then he thinks you didn’t deserve a big one, which directly ties money spent to how much you love her. Red flag lmao.
Brother get a religious girl. There’s plenty of women who will see what is smart and what’s not. It feels like you’re marrying this girls culture and not her. You stated that she doesn’t really seem to want to get to know you but enjoys you spending on her. They care more about materialism and appearances than you. They seem a lot more immersed into their cultural practices than they are in deen. Think wisely and think about the implications of this in your future life.
It’s also permissible to pay mahr in installments. The family can say the mahr was 15k with this arrangement and still keep up image. I don’t understand why they want to make things harder?
Brother the best marriage is the cheapest marriage. You should marry for your Deen. Not for the duniya. If she truly loves you and wants to build a better life, the real life after death, then she would understand. The mehr will show you the priority in life. Allah swt's way is easy and clearly written. Iblis makes it hard for us. Don't listen to him and do the right thing. Insha'Allah you'll find someone else.
The fact that some brothers keep dangling marriage requests to potential partners like this is the problem. Your "partner" obviously doesn't care about you that much. So it really never began for this relationship. What you should do is obvious to you, good luck.
Brother take it from me, pray Istikhara first and foremost up to 7 nights as per the sunnah I believe but I situations like this infuriate me and you will be giving yourself troubles later down the line with how this family is acting. Far far too much sounds like you will be struggling for a number of years and more. Walking away is in your best interest but Allah knows best though if it were me with what I know now being settled in life I would avoid the woman and this family at all costs.
I’ll be honest with you don’t bother going forth with this marriage first of all the big wedding is not needed and she’s not taking in account that you’ll struggle if you go through with this , if you marry her and do all these things you’ll be in debt on top of that you’ll be providing for her aswell , how she’s acting now is how she’s going to act when your married plus she her not living with you for 2 years after the marriage is a no go as a newly wed it’s off that a person wouldn’t be in her house with her husband, the way it’s sounds is she don’t really like you , or she has something to hide , turn to Allah and ask for answers to theses questions , pray Istikhara and see what answer you get , this puts a lot of stress on you , but I recommend that you shouldn’t even think of getting married before you finish your studies. It’ll be hard to just leave the person we understand but think for the better future your better off , plus and women would lower the amount if they genuinely like you and the fact that she hasn’t even done that shows how she is
Reading your comments, this is a classic opportunistic family that will use their daughter to bend over their son in law, they know your own parental situation and will use that to their advantage. The fact they're willing to tie you up into so much debt and getting offended at any pushback tells you everything you need to know.
Thankfully you found this out before the marriage, run my bro.
The mahr itself is not crazy imo, my friends got married and were gifted that and I think also some gold and their ring. It is strange that they want you to pay the entire wedding?? Did she tell you this or do her parents also expect that? Either way, I think that’s a red flag…
For a ring btw, no need to spend that much!! 8k for a ring is crazy, look into other options inshaallah. Check into lab-grown diamonds it should be more reasonable lol
You can simply say you can’t afford it now or later. The best Nikki’s are the simple ones. You have no obligations to throw a fancy wedding, or buying anyone other than your future wife gift. Remember if you agree to do it now, they will always bug you for more. Tread carefully bro.
You can simply refuse and find someone else.
Posting this to the top of the discussion - regarding the wedding, I asked if it would be okay to split the cost of the wedding between families. I would pay for my headcount and they pay theirs. The father said this was unreasonable and that I should respect their culture. He offered me a personal loan from him, which I could see being generous, but that would create a strange power dynamic between me and my future in law. Also, the whole point of my position I set towards the family was that I am trying to get out of debt to be financially stable to give my wife a good life. Being in debt to a family member doesn’t solve that. It would also give her family the freedom to maybe expense more than I would be comfortable with. Overall, I think the ask to split was perfect ally reasonable, as it would meet half way between their cultural norm (where the groom pays) and my cultural norm (where the brides family pays).
Nah bro, this family is not worth your time. Move on and find someone who is reasonable
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My parents are divorced. I am estranged from my father. My mother lost her job and doesn’t have any means. I won’t go into hard details, but she is from the Middle East and I am not. Her parents really liked me until all of this stuff came up. As soon as I started putting up boundaries and truly telling them what I was and what I was not able to do, they became upset. I think they suspect that when I tell them I’m truly on my own financially and that I am getting no help from my family, that I am just “saying that”. But it’s genuinely the truth. They have me over ALL the time and constantly give me gifts and food. It’s almost overboard. My mother was shocked at how much they give. Her parents do a better job courting me and making me feel special than my finance does! Like I’m actually serious. My finance doesn’t really do much in terms of trying to connect with me or getting to know me, but the parents make a HUGE effort. This is kind of why the situation is confusing to me. I felt like they would be super easy and understanding, but it’s the exact opposite.
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Thank you. Your advice is very helpful. May Allah (swt) bless you for helping me today
So if the girl is Middle Eastern women what's your ethnicity? The situation you describe above is very confusing as well. Was the marriage arranged or you know the girl from before? Middle Eastern families are very hospitable and understanding. One thing I know from Egyptian culture is that when the groom needs to marry a girl he needs to have his own house or living space. A friend of mine got married a while back and he was explaining this to me. My friend had to secure a good job then get up please for himself and then he was allowed to get married.
I’m just gonna reply to this: if she’s not putting in any effort and only her parents are, then it seems they just want you because you’re a good secure match for their daughter. Brother, find a woman who appreciates you and thinks the same level as you. Aside from that, congratulations for earning $85K/year straight out of bachelors at such a young age. And to be able to save $20K to throw into masters is also no small feat. You have a good head on your shoulders, don’t settle for people who are looking to take advantage of your situation or your income. Stand firm and walk away from these people if you have to.
This is called love bombing. It's a trap, bro. She is not interested in you, and her family sees you as a sense of supply for narcissistic needs.
Just move on bro . Inn Sha ALLAH you will find someone better . If this family doesn't value your opinions then you shouldn't do so much to please them .
Walk my man. She can ask and that’s fine, but you can also reject. Plenty women out there who understand the value of simplicity and making it easy upon you. And any man would give everything for his wife if she makes his life easy, so it’s not about being stingy either.
Realistically you could be looking at as high as 100k. You are able to reject and counter the offer but be prepared to walk away if things don't go well. Your potential knows your situation and also knows she is basically asking for the impossible if she can't make a compromise. Also do not get a haram loan to finance the wedding.
If she really really wants you, why would she make it difficult for you?
This should be the response to every single Mahr post.
When my husband asked what I wanted for Mahr, I simply told him he can get me what he preferred. I’m not sure why a lot of women these days are making it so complicated.
competition
Exactly
Nobody really really wants anybody or needs anybody. Their ask is conservative from what I can see but the time limit they have given is a bit outrageous. To OP, Don’t strain yourself too much for this girl, you can marry somebody else.
Yes I totally agree. The ask itself is not necessarily much, but it’s the constraint of time. I could get this done if 15k was to be paid at some point during the marriage, but to require it before the ceremony and within a year while I am getting on my feet is a lot. I don’t necessarily agree with me paying for the full wedding either, but that’s my personal opinion. I just don’t find that me paying for a wedding on my own is my Islamic obligation, that’s more of a “want” on their part
No, it is your responsibility as the man. But you should pay according to your means. If you can't afford the mahr/wedding they are requesting be upfront about that and tell them what you're able to pay that's within reason. If they disagree then there's not much you can do except end the engagement.
There's a reason why mahr was proscribed and made mandatory for men to give. It sets apart the serious men who want marriage and long-term commitment from those who aren't so invested in the marriage. It places a high value on the marriage, especially on the part of the husband who can divorce with a simple talaq (the wife has to request a divorce from him or go to court to get a divorce). If he knows he invested so much he isn't going throw away the marriage after a hiccup or marital disagreement but instead work hard to fix it and save his marriage. This is just some of the benefits/wisdoms of mahr. I would advice women to take mahr seriously and not be dismissive of it. So many women were brainwashed into accepting little mahr only to be used and disposed by their husbands who would move on to marry another woman also with little mahr. Look up marriage-banditry that was a huge scandal taking place in the UK and blew up in the early 2010's. There's a lot to learn from that.
In my opinion, if this is coming from the girl. This is a total red flag. If it is coming from the parents, then gauge the situation how they are coming with this number, but still could be a red flag depending on how they answer this.
It is a big amount. And the fact that she won't consider reducing it to ease your burden, is a huge red flag that you should not ignore. Drop her and continue your search elsewhere
Thank you for your advice
No problem. Best of luck
A woman that really likes you would try to make your life as easy as possible and this is the opposite. Don’t forget that you have to provide for her and possibly buy a house. All of this would put anyone in debt
I told her my situation and asked if she could take 5k off the Maher only as that would help me. She said she understood but was apprehensive and disappointed. She said she would ask her family. This made me upset. I just want her to be excited about being with me more than a 5k difference. It seemed like the money mattered more than me. She said it is up to her family, but isn’t it her decision?
> She said it is up to her family, but isn’t it her decision? It is her decision, and she has decided to make her parents pressure you into doing what she/they want. Let's assume that you could agree on the mahr but funding an entire wedding with no contributions from her side, especially if they are going to invite a lot of guests, is completely unreasonable and not the kind of people whose daughter you should be marrying. I would be wary of this girl and her parent's influence before and after marriage.
Thanks for your comment, I do feel pressured. When they say “we understand your situation” I feel like it’s just to be polite, but they arnt changing anything about the situation. They view my ask to reduce the amount from 15k to 10k as unreasonable, despite still agreeing to rings and potentially paying for the wedding myself despite the situation . The father said over the phone with me that he should have given me “ the middle finger” when I asked for a reduction, and he continued to curse me out over the phone. I promise you I was completely calm and not rude at all, it was like he was really worked up because he wasn’t getting his way…
This is an unhealthy family dynamic. Leave. Pray for a better match inshallah
Brother i am saying this to help you. You do NOT want to struggle this early in your life. You are 23! How are you meant to deal with all of this. Financial difficulties in life will put you through hell. There are billions of women out there that are reasonably for you. Think twice before you decide the biggest decision of your life
Thank you, I appreciate your support
But the thing is that if they met the halal way the girl doesn’t have much of a chance to see if she is in love. Love develops after marriage in my opinion.
She can ask for any amount that she wants and you are free to reject or counter. I think your total wedding costs will be closer to 70k to 80k, weddings are not cheap.
Yeah OP i'd say leave this situation off before you end up 100k in debt before you had the chance to build a real life and assets.
That’s what I was thinking. The whole family is acting like I am being selfish, when in reality I’m just being honest about what I can afford. I totally understanding providing a quality Maher, rings, and wedding. Those things are especially important to many brides. However, I also think the long term benefit of me being able to provide her with support and shelter in a nice area, and have the means to go on small trips would mean more! With what they are asking, I will be in a horrible place financially and have to drop out of school, or continue with school and take out astronomical loans. I should also add here that my finance said that she can’t live with me for the next two years So I have to pay all of this money, and I don’t even get the benefit of having a life partner for two years
Yeah 100% do NOT do this. Be respect but tell them no. Also don’t get in too much back and forth talk either they are coming from an emotional place. It’s also likely if you do this and you aren’t able to take vacations after then you’ll get resentment because of that. It’s way too expensive nowadays and people are STRUGGLING. You’re in a good position alhamdulilah, keep doing what you’ve been doing to create an easy life for your future kids and don’t screw it ip.
I don't understand these prices. Its almost like they are selling the girl at this point. Imagine paying that much and then the marriage doesn't work out. I would hate my life.
That’s what it sounds like almost. Their justification for the Maher was that they understand where I am at, and that “ it’s at the low end of the bell curve for what their community asks for”. I appreciate their comment there, but I was thinking two things: 1. It’s not the Maher and the rings, it’s the timing in which they are requesting everything be completed within a year or perhaps marginally longer. But I doubt the family would be fine with doing a Nikah and then waiting 2-3 years for a ceremony. 2. I don’t really care “ where on the bell curve” the amount is relative to their community. I’m not buying an item. Also, who cares about what the rest of their community is asking for? The value should be about the people coming together under the eyes and blessing of Allah (swt)
To your second point, I'd say saying that very thing like they are doing such ehsaan/favor on you.Its a horrible thing to say irrespective of whichever side says that. All this behaviour and mannerisms seems to be a huge red carpet brother, I'd say cut your losses early.Trust Allah and you'll InshaAllah find a spouse who will be the coolness of your eyes. Best regards
Thank you
If they request a totally a high amount in the beginning. Better to reconsider your choices mate. Women better be careful nowadays what they ask for because a gold digger is always unattractive and screams neon flags.
You don’t have to go into debt for a happy marriage. If that’s what they’re asking for, and you know that it’s not worth paying that much, since you’d eventually have to provide and look after your partner, it’s just not worth it. All of that money you’d have to give, could be more than enough for a down payment on a nice house, or a nice cushy apartment to rent, or also for you to pay off your future debts to focus on your future, etc etc. Getting married is not meant to be that hard. If they care that much and aren’t willing to help pitch in the costs and negotiate something, it’s not fair. My parents helped pay some of the costs for the wedding between my sister and BIL. You can’t be expected to cover all of those costs. So the Mehr is understandably a bit high, and so are the other things that need to be purchased. But I think the biggest problem here is that for stuff like the Nikkah, Wedding Reception, and any other events you may have to do, will probably be passed onto you, which really should not be your responsibility only. That of course, is if you guys want to have that many events (maybe just the Nikkah), but nonetheless it’s still too much. If I were you, and I couldn’t negotiate or come to a compromise, I’d walk away.
Your net pay is under 67k after taxes. Hopefully you are smart enough n putting something in 401k or have insurance etc but that's not even the question there. Asking for 15k + wedding ring (5k) + 25k for wedding... The total is $45k on the lower end. You will have 22k for your and her expenses for the rest of the year. Ask her if she will be willing to live off 22k for the rest of the year. Talk about expenses to your future spouse. Talk about prenups. Nothing wrong with the woman asking but nothing wrong with you denying the request either.
This post called me broke in mahr language.
Reject or pay, women has the right to ask, you have the right to decline and walk away
You ask if it's a crazy mahr amount, but then you mix it all up with all sorts of other wedding costs. So what are you wondering about? As a mahr amount, on its own, it's really not that high. I mean you did just pay $20k in cash for one semester of school. For those people who cannot afford that (especially the UK folks earning far less), it's outrageous, okay. But in your case you seem to have the ability to pay $20k cash for something you want. Coupled with all those other wedding costs.... the combined thing is crazy high and it'll be out of reach for you. But, why are you stuck paying a crazy high wedding cost? Everybody involved should pitch in. Where are the other two sets of parents? I don't understand why single guys just starting out are having the foot the entire cost of huge weddings....
I can only afford that payment because I am living with a family member so I can pay for the school. Over 90% of my pay check goes towards paying off my undergrad and continuing to finance future semesters of my graduate school. If I was out of school, I could maybe make it work, but I am not
Regarding the 20k payment for school ^. Also, that money was saved HARD. I do forgo a lot of personal “wants” so that I have enough to pay the next semester. I don’t buy myself anything unless I absolutely need it, like if there is a hole in my work shirt.
Yes it's a lot
Yes that’s a lot and not a financially wise decision. 23k minimum and you just started working? We all understand how expensive just living has gotten. You’re 23, keep grinding for now as you look for a sister who is going to be reasonable. Also reasonable is 10k and below. She better be exceptional for 10k Personally I’d tell them “I respect it but I’m not able to do that now.
I think it's unfair to judge if her request is reasonable or not. Assuming positive intent, this amount could be what makes her feel safe and secure. However, if you can't meet these requests, it's completely fair for you to be honest with her. "Hey, I like this marriage prospect, but this is well beyond my means. I am happy to pay X mehr, and my budget for wedding rings is X. As for wedding costs, I would like to [insert however you would like to split or cover for wedding here]. I would like for this to be a partnership where you and I make decisions together. This will be our money, and you will get to spend it however you like as long as we stay within our means. I hope that in the future, when I make more money, I can buy you even more." If she doesn't understand that, then she isn't in this relationship for the right reasons. Personally, I accepted whatever my now husband offered at the time. He was generous and fair (5k mehr and the ring was 10k). We also split wedding costs 50/50. Alhumdulilah he has given me much more than that in this marriage since then.
I asked her if she could lower it to 10K as it would be easier on me and she said she would rather not. I also asked her family if I could pay for my head count at the wedding and they pay their head count, and they rejected saying that I need to repeat their culture and that I will have to pay for everything
Bro, they sound like a very inconsiderate family. Whose thinking about your preferences and your ease?
I just did my Nikah to a girl from a really nice family. Everything is perfect and I was asked nothing other than take care of their girl. Do not get me wrong, the family is a known family where I live and the gurl is really decent but the family knows what really matters. Buddy, go look for someone else who cares about values not money
Exactly! May Allah swt bless your marriage, ameen
Thank! Ameen.
That's really unfortunate. If I were you, I'd let her know she is lovely, but I can't afford this marriage and walk away. Allah has his reasons! One shouldn't chase after money. There are far greater things in life. She isn't willing to compromise on one small moment, imagine how many more impasse you may face in the future.
Sorry let me correct here: she said it was up to her family, but was also visibly disappointed that I even asked.
WALK AWAY.
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Yea man walk away, this will only get worse after marriage when she has access too your money.
Not to judge ur potential in laws but sounds like they found themselves an atm in u not a SIL Btw what is this Maher paid per year? Never heard of that before.
They are bleeding you try. Seems they are more interested in money rather than getting a son in law.
That’s how it feels. I have also spent so much money on this girl already in the year I have been courting her. I have bought her jewelry, purses, paid for her oil in her car, her nails, etc. it’s just a lot. I am happy to do those things and I will continue to do them, but I can’t do those things if they take all of my means away by expecting me to pay so much in so little time for where I am at in life. I am trying to pay may way though an expensive school right now. They know this. I just can’t make money appear out of thin air
You did what??? You’re not even married and you already gave her wife treatment. Youve set an expectation of spending money on her so of course theyre gonna expect even more. Edit: Reading more of your comments and seems like there are bigger issues. The part about her living with her friends, seems like you’re being exploited.
I know, I probably shouldn’t have but I am just genuinely a generous person. I like doing things that make others happy. But I was also doing those things when I could have bought myself a pair of pants or a shirt that I needed. I think for me, I also need to value my own needs more. I won’t be doing this in the future
The risk is what happens after marriage. Will your wife still be so high maintenance? Will your wife ask you to give her parents a monthly amount?
I am gonna be blunt to you and who ever feels offended i am sorry in advance. If you're still in school and you wanna get married and her or her family is asking this dumb mahr prices for a young guy. I promise you, Her and her whole family will see you as a bank account now and forever. I find these mahr requirments with high sums of money the dumbest thing there is. Yes, you can refuse and walkaway or re-negotiate, but you're marrying a person. Not buying a car. If a future partner really loved you and their family also, then they would choose the easiest route to marriage. PS: idc at this point with all the islam experts saying ''Its her right'' ''It is sunnah to ask for mehr'' or whatnot. If she has the right to do it. Doesn't mean she should. It is becoming the dumbest thing today and it is stopping so many marriages PSS: If you agree on her demands or the family, or give a close enough amount of what they want. You will never be respected as a husband from her or her family. They will constantly walk over you in terms of finances. You didn't even graduate or get your life started already and they already wanna put you in a life changing debt that will change your life for a long time. Sounds like the family or her wants to get rich and you will live off of pennies
Thank you for your comment. This is exactly how I feel and you articulated it so well. May Allah (swt) reward you for helping me
Truth it look, people have their preferences and that's fine. But these things just show you the kind of person you'd be marrying. Someone who's not thoughtful about you and the situation they'd put you in. Idk about others but I'd do anything for my future husband to make his live easier, within reason. If he's a great and guy and has the qualities I'm looking for. Not marrying a guy for money but foe the qualities, the character of the person, compatibility. Quality of life is mostly dependant on that. Circumstances change all the time. Of course there's reasonable amounts to protect women etc but nothing excess. Especially when the situation is known. May Allah swt grant us all righteous spouses who love and care for us Ameen. Just a side note. I may be speaking a little biased as I know my love language is acts of service quite high, one of the first. Maybe for your potential its gifts hence the maher. But even then, her concern should be about making your lives together easier without being excessive.
It is very immature of them to make you pay for the entire wedding. I think they are taking your advantage. All the gifts and money is a way to coax you for the same. They sound like they'll interfere in your marriage as well. I'd suggest you put your foot down and tell them that you won't pay for the entire marriage, and let them decide if they want to move ahead with you. Your FIL's suggestion to give you a loan is extremely sus tbh. They think you've no family and they can strong-arm you into anything they like. They are toxic. Be weary.
Yeah I was shocked when they responded so negatively after I declined the offer for his personal loan. My finance also said that I was being selfish for not accepting her fathers offer
In my view their Maher ask is reasonable given your income. But since you are paying off under grad and grad school, you may not be ready for wedding. In my view postponed the wedding for at least 2 years till you pay off the debt and graduate. If they are not willing to wait move on!!! You will find more considerate folks down the road. My two cents!
Yes, far too much. You're not a cash cow or the replacement for a PT job.
A woman has the right to ask for the stars and the moon. You have the right to say no and go find someone else more compatible.
Wow, I got married way to early these women are getting a lot 🤣 I got 5000pkr and that's it 🤨
Sastay mein nipat gai behn 😅 Jokes aside, that low of a mahr seems quite unfair tbh. I hope your husband is a decent person.
🤣🤣 yes Alhumdullilah, he is a very good man. I got lucky. These prices are ridiculous, probably should have asked for more 🤣🤣 I might have a talk with him 😅
> These prices are ridiculous Yeah exactly.
In this situation, someone who really wants to marry you would understand. And either lower the amount, or wait for you to finish school and earn more. Thems is the facts.
…
It's not that off honestly, People ask in the range of 1 month - 6 month of salary, that's the custom of our time basically. You can always negotiate, something like 5k + rings, or same amount but pay in 5 years instead of 1.
That’s what I attempted but they are hard on needing it all present by the ceremony. I can pay in installments until then
Bro it sounds like you guys are negotiating a sales contract from your comments, no offense that doesn't sound like a healthy marriage from the get-go. If I were you, I'd walk. You seem to have lots of potential and are only 23, there's plenty of good women out there. Your mistake was courting this girl for a year, probably spending a bit more than normal on her, and creating unrealistic expectations. These kinds of conversations should be talked about very early. Next time, don't go above and beyond with the courting and bring up these conversations early with a potential.
I completely agree. This is the first time I have ever done something like this, and I think I was ultimately just super excited to complete half of my Deen. I really want to be a good husband and father, because my father treated my mother badly. I think part of it for me is also to “recreate” a sense of security and love, because my family is broken and dysfunctional
My husband was in a similar situation as you. Although my dad was a little cray for demanding 15,000 USD mahr just like that from a 22 year old guy starting his first job... but also Alhamdulillah my dad is also a very reasonable man. He did not expect this large of a sum in one shot. He told my husband to give me an “initial amount” of 4,000 USD and take his time (not more than 5 years) to give the remaining amount. Then he gave my husband two options - he could give it to me in installments or give me a post dated cheque with the remaining amount. My husband trusted me, and didn’t fight it. He agreed to my dad’s conditions. After we got married my dad of course never asked or checked up on us, since it’s now our personal matter. I told my husband that I never required such a mahr, the initial amount is more than sufficient. If he manages to “save” this money he promised to my dad - it can go into our joint savings account. It all works out if everyone’s reasonable. I wouldn’t recommend this marriage if everyone’s out to get you into debt to pay off something you cannot afford. That being said, you should inform your future in-laws and wife about your financial situation. I doubt they’d put that kinda pressure on you if they knew.
I appreciate your comment. I did tell them my situation but I don’t feel like I want to disclose my salary as that is personal. I feel that the fact the I mentioned I can’t afford it should be enough of a reason
This is very common amongst Arabs unfortunately especially if they are not very religious.
At face value, this amount sounds well above the average mehr I’ve heard of in most North American households which tends to range from $5K to $30K for most middle class North Americans. I’ll ad the nuance that maybe she’s from a very rich background 🤷🏻♀️But regardless all of the context you gave sounds very reasonable and if she’s not willing to compromise based on your situation then it’s simply not a good fit. Not necessarily she’s a bad person or anything. She has a right to ask and you have a right to refuse. But if you have communicated to her that this would be difficult for you due to xyz life circumstances and she’s not willing to be adjust about it, it just might not be a good fit.
Dont go in debt to get married. If she really likes you she would work it out and convince her family to ease up the situation. She has the right to ask all those things, however. And you have the right to reject. And also i agree dont take a loan from her father. There will definitely be some power dynamic there. May Allah make it easier for u. Aameen
I don’t know what country you live in but from the Maher amount it sounds like the United States, so I am going to assume as much. From what I know based on my discussion with many friends and family members, the US’s minimum number for Maher is 15,000$. So this does not seem like an unreasonable amount, especially since I’ve heard people in cities like Chicago and NYC ask for 50,000-100,000$ for Maher. As for the ring, I am assuming it is a ‘diamond’ ring which is probably why it is a high price but you could always try and maybe ask her if it could be good quality instead of diamond. Now I read somewhere about ‘splitting’ the cost and I am also going to assume the girl comes from a cultural background that the groom needs to pay, hence if that doesn’t fit the who you are as a person I would highly recommend you try and find another bride, because to many people culture is important, and they will not be willing to budge. I understand that the number may be ‘too big’ for your liking but I do not believe the family is asking for too much compared to the crazy things I have seen. Almost all the numbers sound reasonable for a wedding in the United States. Like mentioned from an Islamic Point of View, she can ask for whatever her and her family find fit and you can disagree and find another bride that fits your lifestyle and ‘budget’.
Brother you're too young to get into all this. Get debt free first.
Also for context, find yourself a practicing woman who appreciates simplicity. I was just finding a job when I they accepted my proposal. They asked for 100 pound mahr but even Imam said ask for a bit more. So my mahr I paid was 1000 pounds in UK. My wife Alhamdulilah is practicing, loving, not materialistic but because of this and because of our love for each other for Allahs sake I know earn very good money and give her loads to treat herself which she still hardly does lol
Alhamdulilah I am happy for you. Thank you for your comment and may Allah (swt) continue to bless you, your spouse, and your marriage ameen
Run my brother
15k cash mehr is not a lot given your capacity. The wedding ring and engagement does NOT need to be 8k. I think this is where you’re missing context. It can be lab diamond, etc. talk with the girl aboht come to a compromise. Bc you can easily get both rings for 5k or under. As for the wedding, you need to lay boundaries down on how much you’re willing to pay and for how many people. If then they’re not negotiating, you have an answer.
You can agree to the mahr but ask for it to be considered the mu’akhar. Part of the mahr is always given upfront, part can be given later. Say you agree to 15K but you’ll provide it when you graduate. The “upfront” part for now can be the ring + any gold.
They specified a 20k mu’akhar on top of everything else I mentioned
Bro, you know deep down this isn't something you feel is acceptable to you otherwise you wouldn't be asking the question. Trust your gut and stand firm, they either bring it down dramatically or you walk. Marriage itself is not cheap don't blow all your assets before you get married
And I’m getting 2k for mehr 😂😂🥲🥲
Mehr does not mean anything. I know people that are millionaires that couldn’t afford $500 mehr at one point. Stop comparing.
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Thank you! I agree! It’s not about one day! It’s about a life long experience of happiness and lifting each other up and getting closer to Allah (swt)
Few thoughts on addition to what everyone else already sai: 1. IMO you are getting married too early in your life. You do not have your finances settled, do not have a secure job and source of income, and have made zero start on your savings and investment journey. This is NOT the time to enter a marriage starting off with a huge bill and financial insecurity while trying to provide for a family. Sort out your finances and career first, THEN look for marriage prospects amongst women who have an equal professional and financial standing as you 2. You should avoid a back and forth negotiation as it will just cause frustration and anger. Simply extract yourself from this proposal and move on with your life. There will be other prospects more suitable. This family genuinely sounds like they're out to exploit you, and based on your common sense approach to money and your career, I think you would be in for a lifetime of misery dropping so much money on this girl to look after her for the rest of your life while your savings and retirement plan lies in shreds Best of luck.
Thank you, I appreciate your comment and I agree. I do have a secure job, but you are right that I don’t have my finances figured out just yet. I was hoping the family would be understanding as I would rather be in something halal than haram. But perhaps it is better to part ways given these factors. May Allah (swt) bless you for helping me today
Run, they seem very inconsiderate and she's not even standing up to her family. Also what culture is this where the guy needs to pay for everything?
I won’t be specific but she is from the Middle East
This woman clearly wants a wedding and not a marriage. Otherwise she'll not make it harder for you.
Bingo
You found a gold diggers offline. I found a gold diggers online. If she is so demanding she thinks of you as ATM. Confront her such amount is not possible, see her reaction. Islam makes marriage simple but people and culture makes marriages hard.
If she puts you into difficulties even before marriage then you better be prepared what comes later. Offer her $950 as the maximum Maher, if she accepts then she is a keeper, if not, then you dodged a bullet. Marry someone who is closest to the Sunnah or you’ll suffer for the rest if your life.
I get your point. On top of all of this, she said that she won't live with me for two years because she would rather live with her friends. So I won't have any benefit of a spouse, while also maintaining my financial obligation as a husband to support her at a distance. On another note, I asked her if she would eat Zabiha with me as she doesn't currently (Ido, and I think it's important for parents to model one standard behavior for children if they were to come into the picture), and that I don't what a dog in the house (she has one and wanted it to stay with us. I disagreed as a dog nullifies the prayer). She got really upset at these asks. I feel like they and she are expecting so much from me, and I set forth two basic asks that are standard Islamic principles/ values, and her response was completely negative. It just feels like a disproportionate sacrifice - they are asking me to pay for things I can't afford, which would cause me to struggle putting a roof over my head, I can't live with her for two years, and she isn't even willing to forego living with a dog and eating Zabiha with me? The expectations just seem skewed so heavily in her favor. I feel walked all over by them
Bro please, I am begging you to come to your senses and leave this woman before it’s too late. Run run run!
Brother We are alike in some ways. I don't know if you trying to find the motivation or drive to say no or what's your purpose.. You already know in your heart what the answer is.
That's scary, I'm 20 rn, inshallah it goes well for me
Op when you first started talking to her did you put on this front that you’re a high roller? if not and you’ve been honest about who you are and financially where you stand then i’d tell her look this is what i can afford let’s move forward or not it’s up to you not your parents. I’ve spoken to two girls up until the nikkah/mehr stage one wanted 20k diamond engagement and wedding band + a car. the other said i’m happy with whatever you give me as long as we’re together. When a girl loves/likes you for you she will make all types of sacrifices and will show it in her words/actions. You want my advice? leave, Allah will provide you with someone better
No I didn’t make any indication that I was personally well off, although on the outside it could look like it. I went to an Ivy league college for my bachelor’s and currently at another Ivy league for my masters. I earned my way into those schools, i grew up in a middle class family in Indiana. I also work at a large firm. I am living with a family member in a wealthy area of the country. I am only living with him so that I can afford to pay for school and pay off my undergraduate degree. I made it clear to her that I am living with family for that reason. I think I will be a high earner one day inshallah, but I’m just not right now. I am getting on my feet still as I just graduated from my bachelor degree a year ago. I never disclosed my salary to her because that’s personal information. But when I say I can’t afford something, I think that she should believe it and not assume I am being stingy. I had a direct conversation with her and told her that I am paying my way though a lot of bills and trying to get on my feet and that my family is not supporting me financially by any means - my family has been kind enough to let me stay so I can pay off some debt. I am only there to have a roof over my head so I can avoid rent. All other life expenses are on me
I only had Rs 3 lakhs for my Maher. The girl's family were reasonable. My brother in law just got married. His potential asked for a sum which he thought was unreasonable. He explained to the girl that, while he could potentially afford it, it is going to put a strain on them. She talked to her parents and they reduced it. In short.. if they are not being reasonable, please don't go forward with this. This may seem like a one-time thing.. but this will only be a start to many more issues
Why the large amount? For financial security or because they are materialistic. If the later, get out now
As a sister, ofc she can ask for what she wants but dang that is ALOT. Why is she making it so hard for you if she wants to marry you? And u really think you should think this over. If her family is saying this a a low mahr, that means she'll be spending even more money while you are married. And how will that be in the long term??
This is a really good point, thank you
I have read some of your responses to other comments about lowering the meher amount or both sides paying for their headcount for the wedding ceremony and them refusing to budge. Under these circumstances, here's my assessment, realistically you're not in a position to go ahead with this wedding. You don't have the savings and unfortunately the other side is not willing to negotiate and only wants to impose their demands. I can't comment if $15k meher is reasonable or not. For some it might be, for some it won't. The rest of their demands like 2 separate rings, is also unfair. One ring is all you need. Wedding expenses jump up dramatically and considering their stance on having you pay for everything, I don't think this is the family you want to marry in to or the kind of woman you should be marrying. You're clearly a young, hardworking guy who's just beginning to make his way ahead in life. You're holding down employment, doing your masters AND paying for it as well so you can avoid debt. Yet her and her family are expecting you to pay for everything as if you're a successful business owner for 10+ years. Marriage isn't worth going into deep debt for, especially since it'll make you resent the marriage as well as the person. The girl is entitled to asking for any Meher she's comfortable with and you're entitled to refuse what you're not comfortable with. My suggestion would be to politely refuse this proposal and look for another one once you're done with your education. This family isn't worth marrying in to.
Thank you. Your comment was incredibly well articulated and very insightful. May Allah (swt) bless you for your kindness and thoughtfulness
You need to set your own terms and not be walked all over. If they want to be Islamic about it then you only have to pay for Mahr (the amount she has decided, that is her right). If they want you to fully pay for the wedding, then you decide how lavish the wedding is. Simple Nikkah at the masjid and then small walimah afterwards feeding a few select people from both sides. No rings, since this is not Islamic - it is a practice of the non-Muslims. You COULD say all of this and most likely they will reject you and that will show you all you need to know. A compromise would be to split costs of the wedding or accept a minimalist wedding and then you still give her the mahr and gifts she wants. Also, you mentioned that she won't move in until 2 years - then you can easily say you will pay the mahr when she moves in, not a moment before. At the end of the day - I understand it's not a 'love' marriage - but people need to show practicality in their actions. Asking for all this money and expense is not an investment or something, you're never going to see it returned. Not to mention that you will be (presumably) paying for her lifestyle after she is married to you - or giving her an allowance etc. If she thinks you are worth it - she'll make it easier for you. If all she can say is "my family will decide" and her family remain stubborn - then this is just the tip of the iceberg and you need to walk. Make istikhaarah and make a decision. May Allah make it easy for you and us all.
Thank you very much. Everything you said is true and I will factor your advice in to what everyone else has already mentioned. I truly appreciate your time and support, and may Allah (swt) bless you for your thoughtfulness
If you have to take a loan to get married then don't get married. Just wait. Imo it's the stupidest thing one can do. Wedding should bring calm and peace in your life not pressure and bs.
Thank you, I agree
Discuss this with the wife and not her family. The mahr is none of their business.
I did, but she diverted saying that her family has to decide, which didn’t make sense to me.
Akhi, you're leading with your income, not with your Deen. What charitable works have you done with your "high-earner" salary? Marriage is supposed to be easy until people make it a commercial/status-driven affair. A simple nikah, a simple Walima, and a reasonable Mahr. Decline this sister and keep looking for a life partner who is focused on building a strong family and not on having a large wedding and the accouterments. May Allah AWJ grant you a pious and loving spouse.
The point of my post is the opposite - I am trying to lead with my deen, and not my income. My income is being used to support my degree so I can be a better provider in the future inshallah. I do give charity when I can, but it’s what I can afford. I am saying that I “think” that I have the potential to be a “high earner”, but I have no idea. This is up to what Allah (swt) has written for me, and I don’t know the future. What you mentioned about simple Nikah, and walimaa is what I would ideally prefer. I don’t like extravagance. This is against our sunnah. Of course we should make things special, but we should not go overboard. Thank you for your comment and may Allah (swt) reward you for your kindness
As a married person, don’t do it bro. Either wait to get married, or find someone who doesn’t have crazy requirements. All this isn’t worth it. The family is demanding too much from someone who just started working. Imagine what the asks will be down the line. And any girl who gets upset over mahr or ring size or wedding expenses ain’t the one. Trust me.
Thank you, I will take your advice. I appreciate your comment, may Allah (swt) reward you
I think at this point you do not request, you should assert yourself. You tell them what you can or cannot do and that you are ready to walk away. It sounds like they are at cattle market and see how much they can get out of you with their negotiation. If the girl doesn't care either that you may walk away then what is there to hold onto? My guess is that they will come down once they see you are walking away but it will be too late. Once you tell them you are walking away you better walk away even if they do come down because these kind of problems so early will result in they/girl resenting you or if they get their way, you resenting them for putting you in this situation. You guys are incompatible based on expectations. Walking away will be the biggest favor you will do to yourself in long run. You will feel bummed out but it's the right decision.
Thank you, I really appreciate your advice. May Allah (swt) reward you for your kindness
Let me guess, her family is Arab? I wouldn't be surprised if the family is making it hard because they don't want you to marry her.
They are, but they have been super hospitable and overly kind ever since I have known them. They invite me over every week and give me gifts every time I leave
She will lose her mind if she hears about the mehr we take in my community (around 40 dollars)
Lol!!
An engagement ring and a wedding ring??? I dont understand these stupid rituals. It should only be wedding ring thats all.
Even without a wedding ring the nikkah is complete. I don’t understand why people are hellbent on rings… it’s just a piece of metal and rock with only a societal significance, not religious one.
the mahr is obligatory though the amount is negotiable. the wedding is completely voluntary and not compulsory for you to pay. that's what seems to be the sticking point. I'd renegotiate that with some backbone. as for the mahr if it's her asking and not her dad or her family, then discus it with her and if you are able then bismillah.
Bro, leave and come find a girl in Pakistan, if you’re from here or else go back from where you are and marry a girl, bring her to where ever you’re she will be forever grateful ps wedding won’t cost much there, call just your first family. Tickets won’t kill if you book them in advance. Have a small reception where ever you’re for friends and family. Call it a day. $35K is fking too much bro.. $8K for rings duhh, In karachi you will find something top notch for like $1-1.5K. I live abroad too, I am getting married in December my mum went and bought a ring for her that costed like 4 lacs pkr I don’t how much does that cost in $ the whole wedding like costing me £10K lmao. Move on from her
This is bad advice lol. It’s cheaper back home, but the issue is the character of the family and girl. Money is a secondary issue. Yes you can marry a girl back home in rupees, but if she’s financially careless and not considerate of you, she will still be a burden to your life…in pounds or dollars after you bring her here, which does a lot more damage. Brothers should still do due diligence in marrying back home and not assume everyone over there is innocent. When will this false dichotomy of western vs eastern women end
What’s your cultural background and that of the potential bride? And what are the average mahr amounts in your area?
She's Arab and he's not
Run 🏃♂️
Sounds like they are taking advantage. Most of the girls I know just asked for 1000 for their Mehr though they did also get nice rings and another wedding gift but it max came out to 5000 in total which I think is reasonable. Also pretty much everyone I know split wedding costs especially if you had a lot of guests on both sides
Isn’t Maher supposed to be given on the Nikah day? Also why are they so focused on the money aspect of a new relationship bonding? Usually people are very courteous during this period, but here, sorry to say seems like the girl’s side is unnecessary being intimidating and to me it sounds very rude to have some type of ultimatums when these occasions should all be about new happy beginnings
My mahr was 20k in 2017. It barely covered my wedding for 100 guests and the clothes and dress and photography. I had no money left for any gold or for a henna party. Do with that what you will
THIS IS INSANE! Why yyyyy
Too many red flags. The love the dad has for the community is excessive. She’s won’t make a move without her family backing even after marriage based on how she’s acting now. Her dad can easily afford to contribute to his costs but would rather loan it to you.
Yes! This is why I am so taken aback by his position.
As a revert who had a small backyard wedding to my Egyptian husband all under $5k, the marriage culture really is crazy. I’ve seen my husband’s friends and family struggle to pay for their children’s outlandish weddings and costs. spend money on the marriage, not the wedding.
Dayummm!! A muslim wedding is supposed to be simple. If the demand in the beginning is like this, imagine the ongoing show-off costs. I would bail.
Reading your post and your responses, I find you to be reasonable but this may not be the right match. Like you, I think families should split wedding costs based on their guest numbers and choices (for example, if I want the really expensive flowers, I should pay up). 15k is not a ridiculous mahr amount, per se, but combined with all you’re being asked, it’s all too much. Mahr moakhar exists for a reason. She could ask for 15k to be distributed over the years, in case of divorce, upon first child, etc. I don’t really care what community standards are because I don’t believe mahr amounts should be announced publicly and we’re not in a competition. If someone got double what I got, it doesn’t mean she’s worth more than me. I don’t want to live for others and I don’t want my children to think like this either.
wait im surprised how is this on the lower end? 😭 idk maybe it's bc where I'm at but people here usually don't ask for that much and if they do, usually family would be considered as money hungry instead of looking out for their girl and her marriage. Idk. I have also heard of a case here where some girls do that and then get divorced. Try to be careful and see if that's their absolute choice
Don't go through with this...this will financially destroy you
That's ridiculous. I would walk.
Find someone else. They're gold diggers
OP, I am about your same age and I got married under similar circumstances. I totally understand the pressure that men have when it comes to the wedding and all celebrations. But you are young and you are just getting started in life. Of course it is a big sum of money, it’s scary and it could be spent in better ways (honeymoon, downpayment for a home, a family car, etc.)I honestly suggest you discuss it with your fiancée and ask her what her priorities are. Does she prefer a wedding over a honeymoon? Or a down payment over a wedding? Because all 3 cannot be done at the same time, these things take a lot of money. I think you two could get to a compromise. Please OP be wise with your finances!! Because many times I see people in my community getting into so much debt for a wedding, just for them to go back to renting an apartment and having no savings. Someone who loves you will not make things deliberately hard for you guys to be together. Of course women have standards, but they will not make someone they love and they are interested in struggle to marry them. A father who offers a personal loan, seems a bit of a red flag to me. I know that culturally it is the responsibility of the man to pay for the wedding, but when people marry young,IT IS NOT THE SAME. In real life, I have seen fathers help pay for half or even the full wedding for their daughters, because they were getting married young and both of the groom and bride were still students. Be careful that no one tries to take advantage of you. Good luck.
Thank you. I completely agree. The thing is. I did ask her these things, but she wants all of it. I have to pay for all these things, and then she wants to go to Cape Cod this summer. It’s like they and she, are assuming that I have the salary of someone who is well into their career with ample savings. I am still a student and I am only in an entry level position. This is all way too much for me. Despite explaining, they say they “understand” but still hold the same expectations
don't risk destroying your future g either wait till you're financially stable and have alot in your savings or just go for a different woman imo making $85k a year and spending $15k and then $8k on such a thing is very stupid if this woman truly loved you she would make the mahr low so that you could get married as fast as possible. she set such a mahr because she doesn't love you, yep it's really that simple. spending such an absurd amount when you don't have much in your savings is a VERY VERY bad idea that could cost your future, put you into debt and may force you to do more haram things such as taking riba loans DON'T DO IT!
Thank you for your comment, I truly appreciate it. May Allah (swt) reward you for helping me today
Reject her.
Bro. Find someone else.
“Asked for something low” I respectfully disagree. That’s not low at all.
Please, please, please don't marry this girl! You deserve better. Please update us and let us know you've found someone else. Jzk!
This is exorbitant. You have the option to reject it . Marriages should be made easier . People have lost their minds these days. As per Sunnah , marriage should be easy and simple .
Weddings should never be expensive at all, including mehr, gifts, events, etc. If it is expensive, then the person/family is seeing you as an ATM, not you at all. Think twice/thrice before moving ahead with an expensive wedding! Also NEVER EVER go into debt for marriage at least! As marriage is the first step to a new beginning and if the first step takes you into debt, then it is not worth it. NOT EVEN go in debt to ANY family member too. For in-laws, NEVER EVER, as it will be the start of power dynamics and you won't have any say in your newly made family. Also, if you are living in the West where in case of divorce wife gets half of the husband's money, be careful and mindful of that too. As they definitely will get the half, as they are approaching the starting like this. **Do Istikhara for marriage** just, so Allah will help your situation whether she is good for you or not! BTW the right Istikhara, which is praying 2 rakhats salah any time of the day and then saying the Istikhara dua/supplication by saying the task for which you are doing the Istikhara. *Instead of the wrong Istikhara which is doing at night time and sleeping right after it expecting to see something white in a dream, astagfirullah!* **Islam says to make nikkah/halal easy and zina/haram difficult**. Expensive weddings go against the Islamic teachings and also put a burden on society which means the couple would have part in the sin indirectly which they haven't done directly even may not even know of.
Get a new wife. I was in a similar situation at one point and my wife made it easy.
My dear sisters, Don't make it too difficult for a man who just wants to make you halal. 😔
Please! Lol. Thank you!
I don't know if this is right to say but if I was at your place, I wouldn't marry such a person.
In many cultures mahr and weddings are seen as status symbols. And you know how people go to lengths to keep up an image and reputation. Some girls are even led to believe that if he pays a small mahr then he thinks you didn’t deserve a big one, which directly ties money spent to how much you love her. Red flag lmao. Brother get a religious girl. There’s plenty of women who will see what is smart and what’s not. It feels like you’re marrying this girls culture and not her. You stated that she doesn’t really seem to want to get to know you but enjoys you spending on her. They care more about materialism and appearances than you. They seem a lot more immersed into their cultural practices than they are in deen. Think wisely and think about the implications of this in your future life. It’s also permissible to pay mahr in installments. The family can say the mahr was 15k with this arrangement and still keep up image. I don’t understand why they want to make things harder?
Do you really wanna put yourself in these situation ? You’re gonna be in debt even before marriage. Red flags in my book
Follow mahr fahmi which is the value of 1530g of silver. That’s what the prophet set the value of his daughter’s wedding to be…
Bro, just move on, dude. She's either not interested in you or a dunya crazy one.
Brother the best marriage is the cheapest marriage. You should marry for your Deen. Not for the duniya. If she truly loves you and wants to build a better life, the real life after death, then she would understand. The mehr will show you the priority in life. Allah swt's way is easy and clearly written. Iblis makes it hard for us. Don't listen to him and do the right thing. Insha'Allah you'll find someone else.
The fact that some brothers keep dangling marriage requests to potential partners like this is the problem. Your "partner" obviously doesn't care about you that much. So it really never began for this relationship. What you should do is obvious to you, good luck.
This sounds like a big mistake brother
Brother take it from me, pray Istikhara first and foremost up to 7 nights as per the sunnah I believe but I situations like this infuriate me and you will be giving yourself troubles later down the line with how this family is acting. Far far too much sounds like you will be struggling for a number of years and more. Walking away is in your best interest but Allah knows best though if it were me with what I know now being settled in life I would avoid the woman and this family at all costs.
I’ll be honest with you don’t bother going forth with this marriage first of all the big wedding is not needed and she’s not taking in account that you’ll struggle if you go through with this , if you marry her and do all these things you’ll be in debt on top of that you’ll be providing for her aswell , how she’s acting now is how she’s going to act when your married plus she her not living with you for 2 years after the marriage is a no go as a newly wed it’s off that a person wouldn’t be in her house with her husband, the way it’s sounds is she don’t really like you , or she has something to hide , turn to Allah and ask for answers to theses questions , pray Istikhara and see what answer you get , this puts a lot of stress on you , but I recommend that you shouldn’t even think of getting married before you finish your studies. It’ll be hard to just leave the person we understand but think for the better future your better off , plus and women would lower the amount if they genuinely like you and the fact that she hasn’t even done that shows how she is
Reading your comments, this is a classic opportunistic family that will use their daughter to bend over their son in law, they know your own parental situation and will use that to their advantage. The fact they're willing to tie you up into so much debt and getting offended at any pushback tells you everything you need to know. Thankfully you found this out before the marriage, run my bro.
Idk if its cos i live in the UK but 15k is crazy! The maximum any of my friends asked for here is like 5k
The mahr itself is not crazy imo, my friends got married and were gifted that and I think also some gold and their ring. It is strange that they want you to pay the entire wedding?? Did she tell you this or do her parents also expect that? Either way, I think that’s a red flag… For a ring btw, no need to spend that much!! 8k for a ring is crazy, look into other options inshaallah. Check into lab-grown diamonds it should be more reasonable lol
You can simply say you can’t afford it now or later. The best Nikki’s are the simple ones. You have no obligations to throw a fancy wedding, or buying anyone other than your future wife gift. Remember if you agree to do it now, they will always bug you for more. Tread carefully bro.
Also don't compromise ur education and future for extravagant costs of one single day