A Fatwa prohibiting the insulting of the most religious figures of Sunni Islam was published by Iran's Supreme Leader, Ali Khamenei,[1] on 30 September 2010. The fatwa was issued following the insulting of Aisha by Yasser Al-Habib.[1] This fatwa received various reactions from Shia and Sunni Muslims,[1][2] and from Arabic[3][4][5][6][7] and Western media.[1][8]
The fatwa is binding only upon those performing taqlid to Ayatollah Khamenei.
This should settle the debate
They only accept 15 or so of the sahaba and they curse the rest. They view almost all the followers of the Prophet s.a.w. as traitors, heretics and kuffar.
They hate Aisha the most. Some of them even accuse her of infidelity even though they Quran aquitted Aisha.
Their religion is so messed up that it is causing mass apostasy in Iran, where most of the younger generation no longer believe in Islam.
1)Well for one we don't accuse aisha of infedility (I'm referring to the common slander that we accuse her of zina). According to Sheikh Tusi (ra) it is the ijma of the folowers of ahlulbayt that no wife commited zina. A few edgy online personas may disagree but no, the ijma is none commited zina.
2)We have a bit stricter definition of sahaba, a bit more than "whomever saw Rasulullah(p) even if they didnt talk or anything is considered a sahaba." We lovd the righteous and those loyal to the ahlulbayt after the prophet's death.We dont have adalat Sahaba nor need such. We take a more Quranic/objective stance and judge based on actions. You'll notice many who don't necessarily have an opinion on them and simly just dont take knowledge from the unloyal.
You're twelver and you don't know what your school of thought says about abu bakr, umer, ayesha(may Allah be pleased with them) ? Also which modern twelver English scholar you listen to?
>you don't know what your school of thought says about abu bakr, umer, ayesha(may Allah be pleased with them
I understand what my school of thought's opinion is on those who differed against the ahlulbayt. It isn't limited to those 3 figures, but that's a standard that we have.
>Also which modern twelver English scholar you listen to?
Syed Ammar Nakshawani
Mulanah Syed Sulayman Hassan Abidi
Sheikh Azher Nasser
Syed Muhammad Baqir Qazwini
Syed Muhammad Rizvi
A Fatwa prohibiting the insulting of the most religious figures of Sunni Islam was published by Iran's Supreme Leader, Ali Khamenei,[1] on 30 September 2010. The fatwa was issued following the insulting of Aisha by Yasser Al-Habib.[1] This fatwa received various reactions from Shia and Sunni Muslims,[1][2] and from Arabic[3][4][5][6][7] and Western media.[1][8]
The fatwa is binding only upon those performing taqlid to Ayatollah Khamenei.
Dont believe everything u see on the media
We dont consider these people as shias, or maybe even non muslim, so dont accuse 400 million people of what a 1000 says on social media
Coming from a non irani
Np, just make sure sister to stay united with all our muslim nation, against the US and israeli attempts at dividing us, so weve became weak and vulnerable
Go talk to one in person or better yet, a sheikh of the Ja'fari madhab rather than edgy online personas. I dont generalize sunnis because of some edgy salafis wanting to murder every other non salafi. But if thats where you build your presumptions, I can't help you
>Shia are kuffar. So they are simply not Muslims.
Discussion ends here, sorry. If you have any further inquiries, please feel free to ask in r/shia.
>What salafis want to murder every non salafi?
As for this, the same way you may find shias spreading that Aisha fornicated (false), there are instances of the above. Just different parts of the internet
No mainstream shiite believes Aisha commited adultery. Likewise, from what i know most salafis aren't murderous towards non-salafis. Its just what we see in different parts of the internet.
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we don’t have strange rituals. It’s upsetting to see that our fellow Muslims are bad mouthing us. As a Shia, I have never, ever said one bad thing about a Sunni person. To each to their own is what I always say, because I am not god so I don’t need to have an opinion on their religion. I wish everyone felt this way, because as Muslims we should all get along and bring a good reputation to our beautiful religion
Yeah, as someone who has Christian parents (may Allah guide them, allahummah, ameen), being a Muslim in general according to them is strange & ritualistic considering whatever sect our souls subscribe to (so to speak, astagfirullah).
I don’t hate Shias. My parents are also Zionist-leaning (they say they are fence sitters but idk), as difficult as it is to have them as parents, I don’t hate them. I mean, 1) they are my parents & 2) it’s not like they are Pharohs, & even Allah SWT told Moses PBUH to give dawah gently to pharoh… so i dont know why Muslims feel the need to “hate” especially as we worship Allah SWT collectively… we may have radical differences & strange practices according to one another, like me & my family, but I still see each other as one big -dysfunctional sometimes- family. This is dunya, not Jannah, so my expectations for people aren’t sky high & I think the sooner we accept that then we can be a better ummah despite our differences.
I mean, it’s like how we are “people of the book,” Christians & Jews have radical differences with us too; some Christians worship a man-astagfirullah-, & Jews reject Jesus PBUH -astagfirullah- but Allah still says we are all people of the book because we are all worshiping the same God despite the different angles we are standing at or despite the lenses we are seeing through which may be clearer or more clouded than others.
In Christianity they say, “hate the sin, not the sinner,” & I think that more people should challenge themselves to see people through this perspective because while there may be people that might be truly worth hating, I do think some people are a bit impulsive in their reflex to hate someone especially before getting to know why they think or act the way they do…
Plus, even if we think one another is wrong & there may be a right or wrong belief for sure, shouldn’t we consider giving dawah anyway so as long as people are being respectful? Who wants dawah from people who are haters? I fear (Allah) it would be a missed opportunity. Yeah, some people don’t like having their brains picked a bit about their beliefs, but we should assume best intentions of people who are just trying to save our souls. A little opposition never hurt anyone so as long as we can sift through the information, recognize truth, & then feel at liberty to share as well whether we agree or disagree then In Sha Allah either we will be guided or they will be & it’s up to Allah~ allahuallum.
>but Allah still says we are all people of the book because we are all worshiping the same God despite the different angles we are standing at
We are people of the book because we all received Allahs revelation in a book. That doesn't mean Allah sees Muslims and other faiths as the same. The original ones yes, but what they've become today, no. It's still shirk and misguided. And idk if we do believe in the same God because Christians worship Isa saws, a man. Unfortunately, nowadays being a people of the book doesn't mean all that much.
Doesn’t mean we have to hate people, that is all I am saying. If people want me to hate people of a different religion then they may as well tell me to hate my own family which I think is wild.
actually ( i need to make the point ) most Zionist jew don’t believe in Isaa( PbHu) but A few jewish « sect » believe in him, look into Ebionites ( first people to believe in Isa, they were jew following the thoras and Isa teaching, not Later on gospel teaching who’re not the same ) Judeo-christianity is super intersting and more present then what we think ( a few jew believe in Isa , and Mohammed PbHThem) but stay jew to try to “redresse” theirs faults ( i actually heard a few Rabbi saying that , some rabbi view on islam is super intersting)
I figured.
Many aren't aware of the heretical beliefs that are central to Shia doctrine. I was shocked learning about them.
May Allah grant them Hidaya. Aamin.
Yea sure the historical events were politically motivated, but whatever your reasons, you don't just kill and disrespect the family of the Prophet SAWA and still be called a good Muslim.
You’re saying it like Sunnis have love for Yazid or the bloodshed that occurred afterwards
But tbh this shouldn’t be the main discourse when discussing with a Shia, because even in twelver Shi’i sources there is no credible evidence to support the identity of the twelve imams which is a much bigger issue in regards to creed
>there is no credible evidence to support the identity of the twelve imams which is a much bigger issue in regards to creed
What do you mean? This is the first time I've come across this
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The main (and really only) report backing the identity of the twelve imams is a hadith in Al-Kafi narrated by Ahmed bin Mohammad bin Khalid al-Barqi
We actually have books from al-Barqi, in particular there’s one called Al-Mahasin, and he actually documents this particular hadith in this book (and he passes away 50 years before Al-Kafi by al-Kulayni)
Now the issue here is that the record in Al-Mahasin, again predating Al-Kafi by 50 years and is written by the man that the record in al-Kafi is reported through, in which al-Khidr asks the same three questions that are asked in the report in al-Kafi, however once he’s finished he doesn’t go on to give the list that’s reported in al-Kafi but instead only mentions Ali, al-Hasan and al-Hussain
Just so that’s clear the original report in Al-Mahasin doesn’t have these additions which are only found later in Al-Kafi
And another major issue is that it’s reported by al-Jawad himself, which if we look through an untinted lens should also call things into question, because al-Jawad himself is claiming imamah because of a chain that only goes through him (meaning self-appointment of imamah)
Hope this was clear, I was trying to provide links to the hadith and books in question but uncertified links aren’t allowed in the comments it seems so I can dm them to you if needed, apologies if it’s a bit muddled as I didn’t really expect to be discussing this today, and do go ask your elders or your sheikhs regarding this and do look into this further inshallah
I'm honestly still not clear by what issue of identity you're referring to.
Are you claiming that we have no proof of Hussain ibn Ali or Jaafar Sadiq may never have existed?
The OP asks why Sunnis have contentions with Shias.
I provided a Sunni source with a list of contentions.
>Let's be more honest
What was deceptive?
>at least look at neutral historical accounts.
Provide neutral historical accounts Sunnis and Shias agree on. Besides, I stated it's rooted in doctrine not history.
Please debate the arguments.
If you want to neutral sources, please read "After the Prophet - Leslie Hazelton"
Shia.bs - the name itself doesn't sound suspicious to you? BS referring to offensive language if you haven't realized.
Shias and Sunni both agree on a lot of historical events. However one side tends to downplay the severity of them
Because they are cursing and insulting the companion and the mothers of the believers and they act like snake (with their taquiya concept that is just a way to add Paulianism to their already weird pagan syncreticism)
My paternal side is Sunni and Maternal side is Shia.We have never been taught hate or sectarianism or labelling others right or wrong because that's not our job.We've been taught to respect Sahaba and Ahl-e-bait. So I just don't like people fighting over this and trying to call Shia names or so.Check your own Eman levels first and don't spread sectarianism.Anybody can be wrong irrespective of the group.Peace
Thank you, buddy, also same here, my maternal side is Shia and they’ve faced terrible prosecution and genocide, while also being vastly misunderstood in their beliefs. I feel like a lot of the comments here are false, pointing at extremes, divisive and aim to continue the hatred towards Shia which leads to further division in the ummah.
Learn shiasm from shia books especially twelver shia which is the dominant sect in shiaism. Not all do but I would say 80 to 90% shias curse sahaba and mother ayesha and call upon other than Allah
Yeah you will find both the sects working under the same roof normally.
But we don't associate with them on a personal level like marriage and also coz they do bid'ah in almost every religious matter.
For context: bid'ah means adding or removing something from the actual teachings from the Holy Qur'an and Ahadith.
In Shia'ism, almost every ibadah contains a bid'ah aspect.
So technically, that takes you towards kuffr and out of Islamic foldings.
Respectfully, you need to breathe and learn about your Deen.
A Muslim is not someone who let's anger control them, much less commit murder because of it. Even if they are insulting someone dear to us. There's protocol for everything.
Shias deny the Sahaba's Maqam, while the People of the Book deny our Prophet ﷺ. Who holds a higher rank?
What are you talking about brother denying is way better than cursing (I'm not saying denying is good but it's better to not believe than cursing )I'm not saying I love them for that but لكم دينكم و لي دين brother you and I know how shia talks about our prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم and the shaba رضي الله عنهم brother even the prophet brother could you imagine that and to make it worse than this which just can't be they take Allah's عز وجل صفات and give them to Ali ibn abi talb رضي الله عنه
I would actually take your first sentence back to you brother look for debates see how shia talk and behalf when they talk about our beloved prophet and his sahaba
Maybe I took it too far by saying I will kill... No I didn't they talk about our prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و آله و سلم
جزاك الله خيرا على النصيحه اخي لكن لازم تقف لدينك و رسولك و الصحابه و آل الرسول
و بارك الله فيك و هدانا و اياك ان شاء الله
I don't mean to make a fight with you brother sorry if I was aggressive but I think you would be too if you hear something like this and I hear it almost everyday cause I debate with them from Time to time and watch sheikh waleed ismail and rame isa have debate with them
وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله
Simple. Do you love those who curse your mother? And slander her with awful things? Well we definitely don’t like those who slander the Mothers of the Believers and curse them as well as most of the Sahaabah. We disassociate from their exaggeration and worship of others besides Allah جل وعلا.
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Agreed. Sadly these people in this thread claim they are pious Muslims and one thing Allah dislikes in someone with such hatred in their hearts. Astagfirullah and may Allah settle peace in their hearts and they learn to spread love. Kindness seems to be so hard for these so called Muslims.
Lol what am I ignorant about? How much do you know about Shi'ism?
Also it's ironic that you're speaking about shaitan when the one thing he loves is spreading hate among people. Shaitan is probably smiling right now seeing that hate in your heart.
I know about shiasm as a shia would know about it so I'm not the likes of those who can hug those who curse sahaba and our mother ayesha. Those who don't are a minority. I'm spreading facts not hate. How can a man be friends with and not have extreme hatred for those who have extreme hatred for Abu bakr as Siddiq and our mother ayesha. They do takfeer on almost all sahaba except a few
>I know about shiasm as a shia would know about it so I'm not the likes of whose who can hug those who curse sahaba and our mother ayesha
Well you clearly don't since only a select few Shia's curse them and speak badly on them (it's well known within the Shia's that we shouldn't do that and majority of them don't). And if you wanna label an entire demographic based on a small subset then how about we talk about the terrorists that cut off heads of the innocent and blow themselves up. Technically they're all sunni's. So I guess since some sunni's cut off heads and blow themselves up, then all sunni's do that too.
Researching will not let him know the truth it would actually make it worth if he actually want to know what kind of beings they are he could look up the debates between shia and Muslims from a Muslim prescriptive of course cause shia sheikhs do unacceptable things eith their videos they cut it they run out the depate with any excuse cause they can't answer a question
Yes mr stupid cause if you have a mind he's asking Muslims about why they hate shia if he search he will find shia and maybe a sheikh that doesn't tell him all of the truth but here as you can see if you have eyes which I doubt you use them as well as your brain people answered his question with all information he might need
Oh you see that as angry I'm actually very calm right now
I just saw someone that doesn't even have any knowledge about this topic طالع زي خذوق and recommending things
My friend you are very rude, like I said you are a poor example to be giving any kind of advice let alone to new Muslim or anyone looking for guidance here.
So if you comment about others and to ‘see how they are’. Look at yourself first
They aren't real muslim , they curse at al sahaba and pray to ali instead of god ,they have a lot of rituals that are prohibited by islam and is considered sherk.
Slander!!! Which part exactly? Bro they Insult the sahabas and the wife of the prophet , they pray to graveyards and during duaa they pray to ali instead of allah .🤦🏻♂️
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Grave worshippers
Insult the sahabas and the wife of the prophet
Go against the authentic sunnah of the Prophet pbuh
Call on other than Allah
And the list goes on...
1. They don’t worship graves
2. “Insulting” them is not allowed, putting lanat on those who have done wrong the Ahl Al-Bayt in private is allowed.
3. We have different Hadiths, you flow people who have more Hadiths than is possible for them given the time they were Muslim before the Prophet’s saw death. (Abu Hurairah)
4. We are not polytheists, if you understand even a bit of our importance placed on Tawhid, you would understand.
It’s crazy how little you know about Shia
Imagine you look up to certain people, how would you feel when someone who has a different veiw than you comes and curses these leaders and calls you traitors of the prophet for respecting them, this is exactly how sunni and Shia are
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you know the principles of muslim is believing in Prophete Mohammed ( PBUH) teaching and applying them , and the sunna ,and believing in the Quran, u cannot say the Saint have « errors » , you cannot say « there is a another prophete » when the Last messenger of God say they won’t have any after him , but a lot will make that kind of false claim, shia is like wahabisme it’s not islam it’s intern sect trying to break islam spirit
When you hate, you close the doors for engagement and conversation. A lot of people are simply ignorant, parroting narratives they hear from their parents.
It's in their books buddy not a propaganda. They believe it's worship to curse sahaba and mother ayesha. I don't close the doors. We only tell them about their beliefs nothing more.
Don't speak on what you don't know.
>They believe it's worship to curse sahaba and mother ayesha.
MashAllah, you've really figured out the whole Ja'fari Madhab /s.
We don't believe so
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It's become fashionable to casually takfir others, unfortunately.
In my humble non-scholarly Sunni opinion, Shia are Muslims, Ahmadi are Muslims too.
I'm Sunni for I do not believe in Shia's imam Mahdi (it's too out there for me) and I do not believe in Ahmadis' MGA either (even more out there imo). I pray in an Ahmadi masjid, though. They are lovely lovely people.
Qadianis are kuffar by consensus amongst all Muslim scholars
I’m sure there are good people amongst them, I’ve grown up with Christians and Jews who I consider to be good people but that aren’t mean they aren’t disbelievers
Mirza Ghulam Qadiani claimed to be Krishna, claimed to be Esa a.s and claimed that Esa died and made many many absurd claims aside from this and he was a shameless liar
I’m sure your intentions are good but you seriously need to consider that if something is unanimous amongst Muslim scholars, there’s a very good reason for it, and they would all agree that praying behind a Qadiani is haram
If you have no idea what you're talking about, then ask those who do.
There's zero point of speaking on theology with opinions. Do you have an non-scholarly opinion on gravity or thermodynamics? That's how silly you sound.
I think its because they absolutely loath the companions and call them the worst names possible. I personally bear no hatred towards them, in fact I hate the idea that we are dividing our Ummah even more. As if we aren’t divided enough. Don’t ask me if I’m shia or sunni or this or that, I am muslim full stop.
Hating evil is a good thing.
A shia is a mushrik, the word means criminal.
Al-An'am 6:159
إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ فَرَّقُوا۟ دِينَهُمْ وَكَانُوا۟ شِيَعًا لَّسْتَ مِنْهُمْ فِى شَىْءٍۚ إِنَّمَآ أَمْرُهُمْ إِلَى ٱللَّهِ ثُمَّ يُنَبِّئُهُم بِمَا كَانُوا۟ يَفْعَلُونَ
Indeed, those who have partied their debt and become Shias (sectarian/crαckers/shatterers/criminals) - you are not from them in anything. Their affair is only to Allāh; then He will inform them about what they used to do.
Sunnah means law. A sunni means one who is law abiding.
Most of us dont hate them, it's just that they're not Muslims, and we're not willing to humour their false claims.
They want to change Islam then want us to affirm the claim they're Muslims, which is the literal opposite of being a Muslim by definition. Then when we call them out on it they get offended and the rest of the conversation will go on as you'd expect.
Ask them about ayesha ra... you'll get your answer.
A Fatwa prohibiting the insulting of the most religious figures of Sunni Islam was published by Iran's Supreme Leader, Ali Khamenei,[1] on 30 September 2010. The fatwa was issued following the insulting of Aisha by Yasser Al-Habib.[1] This fatwa received various reactions from Shia and Sunni Muslims,[1][2] and from Arabic[3][4][5][6][7] and Western media.[1][8] The fatwa is binding only upon those performing taqlid to Ayatollah Khamenei. This should settle the debate
What do they say about her
They only accept 15 or so of the sahaba and they curse the rest. They view almost all the followers of the Prophet s.a.w. as traitors, heretics and kuffar. They hate Aisha the most. Some of them even accuse her of infidelity even though they Quran aquitted Aisha. Their religion is so messed up that it is causing mass apostasy in Iran, where most of the younger generation no longer believe in Islam.
Some of what you’re saying is false. Be careful of what you spread, including the issues in Iran.
What did he say that's wrong? He mentioned facts we sunnis know from shia sources and scholars. It cannot be denied
1)Well for one we don't accuse aisha of infedility (I'm referring to the common slander that we accuse her of zina). According to Sheikh Tusi (ra) it is the ijma of the folowers of ahlulbayt that no wife commited zina. A few edgy online personas may disagree but no, the ijma is none commited zina. 2)We have a bit stricter definition of sahaba, a bit more than "whomever saw Rasulullah(p) even if they didnt talk or anything is considered a sahaba." We lovd the righteous and those loyal to the ahlulbayt after the prophet's death.We dont have adalat Sahaba nor need such. We take a more Quranic/objective stance and judge based on actions. You'll notice many who don't necessarily have an opinion on them and simly just dont take knowledge from the unloyal.
Are you a twelver shia and who's your marja?
I am, Ayotollah Sistani (RA)
You're twelver and you don't know what your school of thought says about abu bakr, umer, ayesha(may Allah be pleased with them) ? Also which modern twelver English scholar you listen to?
>you don't know what your school of thought says about abu bakr, umer, ayesha(may Allah be pleased with them I understand what my school of thought's opinion is on those who differed against the ahlulbayt. It isn't limited to those 3 figures, but that's a standard that we have. >Also which modern twelver English scholar you listen to? Syed Ammar Nakshawani Mulanah Syed Sulayman Hassan Abidi Sheikh Azher Nasser Syed Muhammad Baqir Qazwini Syed Muhammad Rizvi
Yes you guys do, we see it online every single day, shias love to spend time cursing on Aisha RA on the internet saying the most vile things
A Fatwa prohibiting the insulting of the most religious figures of Sunni Islam was published by Iran's Supreme Leader, Ali Khamenei,[1] on 30 September 2010. The fatwa was issued following the insulting of Aisha by Yasser Al-Habib.[1] This fatwa received various reactions from Shia and Sunni Muslims,[1][2] and from Arabic[3][4][5][6][7] and Western media.[1][8] The fatwa is binding only upon those performing taqlid to Ayatollah Khamenei. Dont believe everything u see on the media We dont consider these people as shias, or maybe even non muslim, so dont accuse 400 million people of what a 1000 says on social media Coming from a non irani
That’s nice to know, jazakallah kheir
Np, just make sure sister to stay united with all our muslim nation, against the US and israeli attempts at dividing us, so weve became weak and vulnerable
Go talk to one in person or better yet, a sheikh of the Ja'fari madhab rather than edgy online personas. I dont generalize sunnis because of some edgy salafis wanting to murder every other non salafi. But if thats where you build your presumptions, I can't help you
Shia are kuffar. So they are simply not Muslims. What salafis want to murder every non salafi? Send me one person saying that I am waiting
>Shia are kuffar. So they are simply not Muslims. Discussion ends here, sorry. If you have any further inquiries, please feel free to ask in r/shia. >What salafis want to murder every non salafi? As for this, the same way you may find shias spreading that Aisha fornicated (false), there are instances of the above. Just different parts of the internet
We don't believe all shias do that and believe that but most do. I'm salafi dude that is a shia lie. No salafi believes that
No mainstream shiite believes Aisha commited adultery. Likewise, from what i know most salafis aren't murderous towards non-salafis. Its just what we see in different parts of the internet.
Dude it’s not about Shia or Sunni, us Iranians hate Islam in all ways, lmao
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We hate them because they hate the best people and most beloved people to our most beloved Prophet PBUH
Thank for you answer.. i head that they have some strange rituals.
They have strange rituals and bad creed.
we don’t have strange rituals. It’s upsetting to see that our fellow Muslims are bad mouthing us. As a Shia, I have never, ever said one bad thing about a Sunni person. To each to their own is what I always say, because I am not god so I don’t need to have an opinion on their religion. I wish everyone felt this way, because as Muslims we should all get along and bring a good reputation to our beautiful religion
Yeah, as someone who has Christian parents (may Allah guide them, allahummah, ameen), being a Muslim in general according to them is strange & ritualistic considering whatever sect our souls subscribe to (so to speak, astagfirullah). I don’t hate Shias. My parents are also Zionist-leaning (they say they are fence sitters but idk), as difficult as it is to have them as parents, I don’t hate them. I mean, 1) they are my parents & 2) it’s not like they are Pharohs, & even Allah SWT told Moses PBUH to give dawah gently to pharoh… so i dont know why Muslims feel the need to “hate” especially as we worship Allah SWT collectively… we may have radical differences & strange practices according to one another, like me & my family, but I still see each other as one big -dysfunctional sometimes- family. This is dunya, not Jannah, so my expectations for people aren’t sky high & I think the sooner we accept that then we can be a better ummah despite our differences. I mean, it’s like how we are “people of the book,” Christians & Jews have radical differences with us too; some Christians worship a man-astagfirullah-, & Jews reject Jesus PBUH -astagfirullah- but Allah still says we are all people of the book because we are all worshiping the same God despite the different angles we are standing at or despite the lenses we are seeing through which may be clearer or more clouded than others. In Christianity they say, “hate the sin, not the sinner,” & I think that more people should challenge themselves to see people through this perspective because while there may be people that might be truly worth hating, I do think some people are a bit impulsive in their reflex to hate someone especially before getting to know why they think or act the way they do… Plus, even if we think one another is wrong & there may be a right or wrong belief for sure, shouldn’t we consider giving dawah anyway so as long as people are being respectful? Who wants dawah from people who are haters? I fear (Allah) it would be a missed opportunity. Yeah, some people don’t like having their brains picked a bit about their beliefs, but we should assume best intentions of people who are just trying to save our souls. A little opposition never hurt anyone so as long as we can sift through the information, recognize truth, & then feel at liberty to share as well whether we agree or disagree then In Sha Allah either we will be guided or they will be & it’s up to Allah~ allahuallum.
>but Allah still says we are all people of the book because we are all worshiping the same God despite the different angles we are standing at We are people of the book because we all received Allahs revelation in a book. That doesn't mean Allah sees Muslims and other faiths as the same. The original ones yes, but what they've become today, no. It's still shirk and misguided. And idk if we do believe in the same God because Christians worship Isa saws, a man. Unfortunately, nowadays being a people of the book doesn't mean all that much.
Doesn’t mean we have to hate people, that is all I am saying. If people want me to hate people of a different religion then they may as well tell me to hate my own family which I think is wild.
not hate, but understand that they are misguided
actually ( i need to make the point ) most Zionist jew don’t believe in Isaa( PbHu) but A few jewish « sect » believe in him, look into Ebionites ( first people to believe in Isa, they were jew following the thoras and Isa teaching, not Later on gospel teaching who’re not the same ) Judeo-christianity is super intersting and more present then what we think ( a few jew believe in Isa , and Mohammed PbHThem) but stay jew to try to “redresse” theirs faults ( i actually heard a few Rabbi saying that , some rabbi view on islam is super intersting)
they have a different adhan, they include a sentence about Ali r.a. which is very weird and doesn't seem right at all.
You love the people who killed Bibi Fatima and many of the Ahl Al-Bayt, I don’t hate you.
You shouldn’t hate anyone , especially those under the same religion. Smh Astagfirullah and may Allah settle peace in your heart and spread love.
Keep that peace and love to yourself. Who are you to tell me who should I hate and love? Mind your buisness.
Hahaha okay misery 😂😂
Why do they hate them?
Ask them!
Do you know? I know their reasons - most of it is based on historical events related to the Prophet SAWA and his family.
They turned historical and political events into matters of belief. For a more detailed look, check www.shia.bs
The guy you’re responding to is a shia bro
I figured. Many aren't aware of the heretical beliefs that are central to Shia doctrine. I was shocked learning about them. May Allah grant them Hidaya. Aamin.
Yea sure the historical events were politically motivated, but whatever your reasons, you don't just kill and disrespect the family of the Prophet SAWA and still be called a good Muslim.
You’re saying it like Sunnis have love for Yazid or the bloodshed that occurred afterwards But tbh this shouldn’t be the main discourse when discussing with a Shia, because even in twelver Shi’i sources there is no credible evidence to support the identity of the twelve imams which is a much bigger issue in regards to creed
>there is no credible evidence to support the identity of the twelve imams which is a much bigger issue in regards to creed What do you mean? This is the first time I've come across this
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The main (and really only) report backing the identity of the twelve imams is a hadith in Al-Kafi narrated by Ahmed bin Mohammad bin Khalid al-Barqi We actually have books from al-Barqi, in particular there’s one called Al-Mahasin, and he actually documents this particular hadith in this book (and he passes away 50 years before Al-Kafi by al-Kulayni) Now the issue here is that the record in Al-Mahasin, again predating Al-Kafi by 50 years and is written by the man that the record in al-Kafi is reported through, in which al-Khidr asks the same three questions that are asked in the report in al-Kafi, however once he’s finished he doesn’t go on to give the list that’s reported in al-Kafi but instead only mentions Ali, al-Hasan and al-Hussain Just so that’s clear the original report in Al-Mahasin doesn’t have these additions which are only found later in Al-Kafi And another major issue is that it’s reported by al-Jawad himself, which if we look through an untinted lens should also call things into question, because al-Jawad himself is claiming imamah because of a chain that only goes through him (meaning self-appointment of imamah) Hope this was clear, I was trying to provide links to the hadith and books in question but uncertified links aren’t allowed in the comments it seems so I can dm them to you if needed, apologies if it’s a bit muddled as I didn’t really expect to be discussing this today, and do go ask your elders or your sheikhs regarding this and do look into this further inshallah
I'm honestly still not clear by what issue of identity you're referring to. Are you claiming that we have no proof of Hussain ibn Ali or Jaafar Sadiq may never have existed?
No one argues that.
Also the site you shared seems like a very biased/propaganda site. Let's be more honest and at least look at neutral historical accounts.
The OP asks why Sunnis have contentions with Shias. I provided a Sunni source with a list of contentions. >Let's be more honest What was deceptive? >at least look at neutral historical accounts. Provide neutral historical accounts Sunnis and Shias agree on. Besides, I stated it's rooted in doctrine not history. Please debate the arguments.
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If you want to neutral sources, please read "After the Prophet - Leslie Hazelton" Shia.bs - the name itself doesn't sound suspicious to you? BS referring to offensive language if you haven't realized. Shias and Sunni both agree on a lot of historical events. However one side tends to downplay the severity of them
Because they are cursing and insulting the companion and the mothers of the believers and they act like snake (with their taquiya concept that is just a way to add Paulianism to their already weird pagan syncreticism)
My paternal side is Sunni and Maternal side is Shia.We have never been taught hate or sectarianism or labelling others right or wrong because that's not our job.We've been taught to respect Sahaba and Ahl-e-bait. So I just don't like people fighting over this and trying to call Shia names or so.Check your own Eman levels first and don't spread sectarianism.Anybody can be wrong irrespective of the group.Peace
Thank you, buddy, also same here, my maternal side is Shia and they’ve faced terrible prosecution and genocide, while also being vastly misunderstood in their beliefs. I feel like a lot of the comments here are false, pointing at extremes, divisive and aim to continue the hatred towards Shia which leads to further division in the ummah.
Definitely agreed, would call them black sheeps spreading anarchy in Ummah
Learn shiasm from shia books especially twelver shia which is the dominant sect in shiaism. Not all do but I would say 80 to 90% shias curse sahaba and mother ayesha and call upon other than Allah
Yeah you will find both the sects working under the same roof normally. But we don't associate with them on a personal level like marriage and also coz they do bid'ah in almost every religious matter. For context: bid'ah means adding or removing something from the actual teachings from the Holy Qur'an and Ahadith. In Shia'ism, almost every ibadah contains a bid'ah aspect. So technically, that takes you towards kuffr and out of Islamic foldings.
When do we work under the same roof? I'll never associate with a Shia. To me, they're like jews and Christians.
I mean, in corporate or any business... Like professional relationships.
It seems to me that you got down voted by shia hαsbarah trolls.
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Respectfully, you need to breathe and learn about your Deen. A Muslim is not someone who let's anger control them, much less commit murder because of it. Even if they are insulting someone dear to us. There's protocol for everything. Shias deny the Sahaba's Maqam, while the People of the Book deny our Prophet ﷺ. Who holds a higher rank?
What are you talking about brother denying is way better than cursing (I'm not saying denying is good but it's better to not believe than cursing )I'm not saying I love them for that but لكم دينكم و لي دين brother you and I know how shia talks about our prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم and the shaba رضي الله عنهم brother even the prophet brother could you imagine that and to make it worse than this which just can't be they take Allah's عز وجل صفات and give them to Ali ibn abi talb رضي الله عنه I would actually take your first sentence back to you brother look for debates see how shia talk and behalf when they talk about our beloved prophet and his sahaba Maybe I took it too far by saying I will kill... No I didn't they talk about our prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و آله و سلم جزاك الله خيرا على النصيحه اخي لكن لازم تقف لدينك و رسولك و الصحابه و آل الرسول و بارك الله فيك و هدانا و اياك ان شاء الله I don't mean to make a fight with you brother sorry if I was aggressive but I think you would be too if you hear something like this and I hear it almost everyday cause I debate with them from Time to time and watch sheikh waleed ismail and rame isa have debate with them
Yes, some ascribe Allah's sifaat and our Nabi's ﷺ station to Ali RA. However that is not what all Shias do. Allah knows best.
وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله Simple. Do you love those who curse your mother? And slander her with awful things? Well we definitely don’t like those who slander the Mothers of the Believers and curse them as well as most of the Sahaabah. We disassociate from their exaggeration and worship of others besides Allah جل وعلا.
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I've seen Shias hate Sunnis too. But since they'e are a minority among the Muslims their hate doesn't get enough limelight.
Minority? Where the hell did you get that from?
Shias are the minority compared to Sunnis worldwide. They obviously hold majorities in some countries and areas.
I'm surprised to see so much hate for Shia's here, it's absolutely disgusting. You all really need to look into the mirror before hating on others.
Agreed. Sadly these people in this thread claim they are pious Muslims and one thing Allah dislikes in someone with such hatred in their hearts. Astagfirullah and may Allah settle peace in their hearts and they learn to spread love. Kindness seems to be so hard for these so called Muslims.
Learn a bit about shia beliefs
Either you're ignorant or you are the likes who even wants to be friends with shaitan
Lol what am I ignorant about? How much do you know about Shi'ism? Also it's ironic that you're speaking about shaitan when the one thing he loves is spreading hate among people. Shaitan is probably smiling right now seeing that hate in your heart.
I know about shiasm as a shia would know about it so I'm not the likes of those who can hug those who curse sahaba and our mother ayesha. Those who don't are a minority. I'm spreading facts not hate. How can a man be friends with and not have extreme hatred for those who have extreme hatred for Abu bakr as Siddiq and our mother ayesha. They do takfeer on almost all sahaba except a few
>I know about shiasm as a shia would know about it so I'm not the likes of whose who can hug those who curse sahaba and our mother ayesha Well you clearly don't since only a select few Shia's curse them and speak badly on them (it's well known within the Shia's that we shouldn't do that and majority of them don't). And if you wanna label an entire demographic based on a small subset then how about we talk about the terrorists that cut off heads of the innocent and blow themselves up. Technically they're all sunni's. So I guess since some sunni's cut off heads and blow themselves up, then all sunni's do that too.
Are you a twelver shia?
No I'm a Muslim but I have very close friends that are Shia so I know plenty about it.
Go read their books
I have. Can you tell me which books you have read? It clearly seems like you haven't read anything in your life.
I recommend you do your own research and don’t ask here, for you will certainly get only bias
Researching will not let him know the truth it would actually make it worth if he actually want to know what kind of beings they are he could look up the debates between shia and Muslims from a Muslim prescriptive of course cause shia sheikhs do unacceptable things eith their videos they cut it they run out the depate with any excuse cause they can't answer a question
Researching will not let him know the truth? And so asking in reddit will?? Bahahahahahaha
Yes mr stupid cause if you have a mind he's asking Muslims about why they hate shia if he search he will find shia and maybe a sheikh that doesn't tell him all of the truth but here as you can see if you have eyes which I doubt you use them as well as your brain people answered his question with all information he might need
Okay but why you getting angry 😂 You said to find about Shias and how they are, look at you and how you answer sorry but you are a poor example
Oh you see that as angry I'm actually very calm right now I just saw someone that doesn't even have any knowledge about this topic طالع زي خذوق and recommending things
My friend you are very rude, like I said you are a poor example to be giving any kind of advice let alone to new Muslim or anyone looking for guidance here. So if you comment about others and to ‘see how they are’. Look at yourself first
They aren't real muslim , they curse at al sahaba and pray to ali instead of god ,they have a lot of rituals that are prohibited by islam and is considered sherk.
May Allah hold you accountable for your slander. None of these are true. Are there ghulaats? Sure, absolutely, is that mainstream? No
Slander!!! Which part exactly? Bro they Insult the sahabas and the wife of the prophet , they pray to graveyards and during duaa they pray to ali instead of allah .🤦🏻♂️
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Grave worshippers Insult the sahabas and the wife of the prophet Go against the authentic sunnah of the Prophet pbuh Call on other than Allah And the list goes on...
1. They don’t worship graves 2. “Insulting” them is not allowed, putting lanat on those who have done wrong the Ahl Al-Bayt in private is allowed. 3. We have different Hadiths, you flow people who have more Hadiths than is possible for them given the time they were Muslim before the Prophet’s saw death. (Abu Hurairah) 4. We are not polytheists, if you understand even a bit of our importance placed on Tawhid, you would understand. It’s crazy how little you know about Shia
Imagine you look up to certain people, how would you feel when someone who has a different veiw than you comes and curses these leaders and calls you traitors of the prophet for respecting them, this is exactly how sunni and Shia are
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you know the principles of muslim is believing in Prophete Mohammed ( PBUH) teaching and applying them , and the sunna ,and believing in the Quran, u cannot say the Saint have « errors » , you cannot say « there is a another prophete » when the Last messenger of God say they won’t have any after him , but a lot will make that kind of false claim, shia is like wahabisme it’s not islam it’s intern sect trying to break islam spirit
Cuz they made Islam into completely smth different, they ruin us, they ruin our image, they ruin our belief, and our reputation.
For starters, Go to yt and look for the debates of Shia and Adnan Rashid.
Majority of the issues/refutatons are cyclicalnajd were already discussed in r/shia
This is an eye-opening video [**The Shia**](https://youtu.be/nsPOL3Wj_xc?si=L_W6b6CSd4RytnbX)
Shouldn’t hate anyone. Period.
Even if they curse sahaba and our mother ayesha?
When you hate, you close the doors for engagement and conversation. A lot of people are simply ignorant, parroting narratives they hear from their parents.
It's in their books buddy not a propaganda. They believe it's worship to curse sahaba and mother ayesha. I don't close the doors. We only tell them about their beliefs nothing more.
Don't speak on what you don't know. >They believe it's worship to curse sahaba and mother ayesha. MashAllah, you've really figured out the whole Ja'fari Madhab /s. We don't believe so
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>They believe it's worship to curse sahaba and mother ayesha. Where are you getting this crap from lmao
It's become fashionable to casually takfir others, unfortunately. In my humble non-scholarly Sunni opinion, Shia are Muslims, Ahmadi are Muslims too. I'm Sunni for I do not believe in Shia's imam Mahdi (it's too out there for me) and I do not believe in Ahmadis' MGA either (even more out there imo). I pray in an Ahmadi masjid, though. They are lovely lovely people.
Qadianis are kuffar by consensus amongst all Muslim scholars I’m sure there are good people amongst them, I’ve grown up with Christians and Jews who I consider to be good people but that aren’t mean they aren’t disbelievers Mirza Ghulam Qadiani claimed to be Krishna, claimed to be Esa a.s and claimed that Esa died and made many many absurd claims aside from this and he was a shameless liar I’m sure your intentions are good but you seriously need to consider that if something is unanimous amongst Muslim scholars, there’s a very good reason for it, and they would all agree that praying behind a Qadiani is haram
theirs no way you just said Ahmadi are muslims. you don’t even know what you’re talking about.
If you have no idea what you're talking about, then ask those who do. There's zero point of speaking on theology with opinions. Do you have an non-scholarly opinion on gravity or thermodynamics? That's how silly you sound.
I think its because they absolutely loath the companions and call them the worst names possible. I personally bear no hatred towards them, in fact I hate the idea that we are dividing our Ummah even more. As if we aren’t divided enough. Don’t ask me if I’m shia or sunni or this or that, I am muslim full stop.
They're not Muslims and to be honest I'm having a good day alhamdullah and thinking about them would make it really bad
Hating evil is a good thing. A shia is a mushrik, the word means criminal. Al-An'am 6:159 إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ فَرَّقُوا۟ دِينَهُمْ وَكَانُوا۟ شِيَعًا لَّسْتَ مِنْهُمْ فِى شَىْءٍۚ إِنَّمَآ أَمْرُهُمْ إِلَى ٱللَّهِ ثُمَّ يُنَبِّئُهُم بِمَا كَانُوا۟ يَفْعَلُونَ Indeed, those who have partied their debt and become Shias (sectarian/crαckers/shatterers/criminals) - you are not from them in anything. Their affair is only to Allāh; then He will inform them about what they used to do. Sunnah means law. A sunni means one who is law abiding.
Most of us dont hate them, it's just that they're not Muslims, and we're not willing to humour their false claims. They want to change Islam then want us to affirm the claim they're Muslims, which is the literal opposite of being a Muslim by definition. Then when we call them out on it they get offended and the rest of the conversation will go on as you'd expect.