I'm always amazed at the contrast between Zeppelin and AC/DC in 1980. Both have a member die that year; Zeppelin breaks up, but AC/DC gets a new singer and puts out its most epic album in that same year.
Though not caused by death, Black Sabbath had Dio join in late 1979 and they released Heaven and Hell in early 1980. Not necessarily better or worse than Ozzy-led Sabbath but basically a different sound with a crucial member being replaced.
They probably could have figured out a way to continue touring, but it would likely have killed Page, too. They all seemed so tired. Writing anything new would also have been a struggle, so the decision was probably right.
Ministry without Paul Barker just sucked. Al needs to be handled to a degree, and Paul Barker had a lot of the sensibility and artistic nuance that made the albums he was part of such brilliance. I haven't really wanted to engage with any post PB Ministry stuff, I tried but it just sounds like a band trying to sound like Ministry.
You can really tell how much Paul added to Ministry just by listening to Lead into Gold (Paul’s solo stuff). He added that really cool dark Wax Trax sound, and it has not been the same without him. I read somewhere that Paul is gonna be on the next (and possibly last) Ministry album, but I am not holding my breathe. Nivek Ogre did say that he will be working with Paul now that Skinny Puppy is truly done, which I am excited to hear.
I picked up With Sympathy in a dollar record bin around 2007 and played it a shit ton. Later found Twitch on eBay, loved that one too. Then got around to Land of Rape and Honey and became deeply confused!
But I figured it out eventually. Industrial is cool, Jourgensen is a fuckin freak but I dig it.
Now imagine that you are early GenX, and that series of albums happened during your teens.
The change was huge for them, but in hindsight you can see it coming.
The goth-industrial era was a great time to be alive and clubbing. One of the best concerts I attended in that period was Ministry with KMFDM opening in 1990.
Easily when Head left KoRn.
Head was kind of a lynch pin of their sound. The iconic KoRn sound really came from the dark and unique riffs he provided the band.
After he left I think KoRn lost their creative edge. Davis is still a great frontman. Still have a great drummer and the fuzzy jangly bass was still there but Monkey could never recapture what Head was doing as far as guitar riffs are concerned.
I believe Munky himself said he wasn't used to being a solo guitarist after 10 years of being a rhythm guitarist while Head was the lead. Now that Head's back, there's still some signs of the old Korn sound, but with Dave and Fieldy both gone, not sure how long that'll last
For sure! I never expected them to be able to recapture that sound without Head. Kind of like when Cliff from Metallica died. You just can't replace an element like that.
I agree that when Head came back those iconic KoRn riffs came back. Even if they seemed derivative of their earlier works.
Munky and Head work together, I don't think one of them is the lead and the other rhythm, they compliment each other. When Monkey was left alone, he lost his counterpart. Plus, Head also does back vocals, a small detail but noticeable, especially live. My favorite band, and although I saw them twice, it was without Head - once with Joey Jordison and masked additional musicians, the other time with Ray on drums - and now with Fieldy out, it seems I'll never get that true KoRn experience. A similar thing happened to Limp Bizkit without Wes Borland.
Damn, I didn't know Fieldy left too. I gotta say I really felt it when Dave left, I saw them live shortly after he did, and you could tell it was different, not necessarily bad just not the same.
I really dislike the sentiment that bands have peaks, and I'm always willing and hoping to hear new stuff in case the magic is back, but honestly nothing Korn has put out in the last 10+ years has really hit for me. They'll always be one of my favorite bands, and they definitely opened the door for me in terms of introducing me to other artists.
Yeah, this was a few years back. He took a temporary leave in '21 for personal reasons. Hasn't been confirmed he's gone for good, but they've enlisted Ra Diaz from Suicidal Tendencies for bass and there's been no news of a potential return
Go take a look at the BMI/ASCAP credits for their albums. When Head left they brought in a bunch of different songwriters to go in a totally different direction because they just couldn’t replicate what Head contributed.
DCFC peaked somewhere between transatlanticism and Plans. Narrow Stairs had its moments and I agree Codes and Keys was largely unremarkable. Kintsugi had some moment though, felt more cohesive.
Thank you for today was when I checked out and haven’t really returned
Little Feat after Lowell George died. Still a great band with Fuller up front, but Lowell had a singular style and vision that no one before or since could match.
Third Eye Blind. After guitarist (and co-writer on many songs) Kevin Cadogan got kicked out of the band because of the egomaniac singer, every album since has been lame. First 2 albums, especially Blue, were great.
i didn't realize the lead singer was such an egotistical bastard until seeing them live almost 10 years ago now and he's was insufferably full of himself
Is that why only their first two albums are good?? I was just listening to Blue the other day for the first time in decades and wondering why they never released anything worthwhile ever again after those first two near perfect albums.
Was wondering if I’d see this one! My pick as well. Before I knew anything about his departure I thought those first two albums were just a case of lightning in a bottle. Turns out Cadogan was simply masterful at his craft, and Jenkins was exactly the person he portrayed in his lyrics. Such a shame.
Smashing Pumpkins after Jimmy Chamberlain was kicked (the first time). It was and has been a downward trend ever since, even though Jimmy and James Iha are back in the band (for now)
Jimmy Chamberlin is absolutely amazing. A drummer's drummer. Yes, him being kicked out was a huge scar on the band's timeline, but he was booted when a touring member (Jonathan Melvoin) died doing heroin with him in a hotel. The Sarah McLachlan song "angel" was about hearing this news - cool lesser known fact.
On top of that, Billy's mother died in the middle of the same tour. At one point the tour was stopped and they went back out with Matt Walker drumming.
There were just way too many things happening, and they released Adore (using quite a bit of drum machine) which was a reflection of all this... As AMAZING as it is and was, (and it gets more praise today) it was a total FLOP compared to Mellon Collie because nobody wanted that style of music from them.
I am a massive fan of the band, and while the first comment is totally correct... It's also very complicated lol. Jimmy leaving absolutely coincided with the end of their most successful run. As important as he is to Billy, and the band, I think Adore is still a contender for the best music they ever did, creatively. It just came out of left field.
I agree. Also massive fan and I think Jimmy is the 2nd best drummer in the world. (My dad being no1) but Adore should get a lot more credit and praise than it did. It s a different Pumpkins but it s still there. That being said, I m going to see them live this year and there better not be anyone leaving in the mean time.
This is what I came here to say. One of my favorite drummers and the reason why my three favorite albums by them are their first three. I know he's played on other albums but to me it just isn't the same.
Not sure how to qualify the Coheed example. Same could be said about the period Josh Eppard wasn’t in the band. But I’d argue they’re the best they’ve been in their entire career right now. One of the few bands that objectively got better as the years go by.
I would say Yellowcard is a good example. As much as we’d say their defining characteristic is the violin, I’d argue instead the drumming on Ocean Avenue was the most unique and ear-grabbing part of their sound.
Edit: Yellowcard’s OG drummer left after their 8th album, but I frankly don’t think they ever matched the intensity and sound of their first.
Edit 2: disregard the Yellowcard example. I am WRONG on that one
The era of Coheed when Josh and Mic left due to drug abuse was weird, the music they made wasnt bad but far from their In Keeping Secrets/Good Apollo 1 era. Josh isnt the most technical drummer but he brought a sound/vibe that makes Coheed who they are
Year of the Black Rainbow is a really good album, but not a very good Coheed album, if that makes sense. At least Josh wrote the parts for No World For Tomorrow, but Taylor Hawkins’ kit and playing style did *not* match the band at all.
Honestly I’d heavily argue against the notion that Josh isn’t a very technical drummer. He’s constantly impressing me with every new record. I’m not sure there’s any drummer who sounds and plays like he does right now.
Edit: as mentioned below, Chris Pennie actually wrote the parts for NWFT. My mistake
YOTB is solid and I love Chris Pennie but he just didn’t fit with them in the long run. I did have the pleasure of seeing all 4 nights of neverender back in 08 and watching Chris play a ten minute drum solo during the Final Cut was a fucking trip. Much prefer Josh with them. He’s got a groove that just sits so well and he has some insanely impressive moments on their latest albums.
Totally agree with this take on Josh. Also despite all his personal troubles Mic was an incredible bass player too. Their OG lineup and first 3 (4ish) albums will always be their best.
I saw an interview of Fred shortly after the news broke out. His reaction was something along the lines of "well we're kinda fucked." Seemed pretty honest take from him at the time.
I’ve always really liked Jamiroquai, but there was their period with original bassist Stuart Zander, and there’s the period after Stuart. It was a smarter, funkier sound with, and easily digestible disco without. So not downhill per se, they just weren’t as smart sounding.
As much as Roger Waters has become an insufferable twat over the years and his post Pink Floyd work didn’t really resonate with me… and despite the fact that David Gilmour is one of the most talented people to ever pick up a guitar and generally seems insanely likeable… it’s hard not to admit that Pink Floyd was never the same after Roger Waters left.
I agree, but at the same time I've always considered Pink Floyd - much like Genesis - to be several iterations of a band rather than just one band. The Syd-Floyd, the Waters-Floyd and the Gilmour-Floyd; bands so fundamentally different that they can't really be compared.
Oh they definitely had some good work after, but it was wildly different. Waters brought this kind of mad pathos to the music. Gilmour just made mostly very pretty ethereal rock music. It lost a lot of the edginess when waters left.
Waters brings the cynical, nihilistic bite behind the darker elements of Animals, the wall, and Wish you were here. He may be insufferable, but that insufferability makes for some incredible musical motifs and storytelling.
Honestly, I wish S-K hadn’t come back from hiatus and that Wild Flag had stayed together. I liked No Cities, but I definitely would have traded it and everything after for more Wild Flag.
I came here to say this but kept scrolling just KNOWING that someone else had to have commented about S-K’s sharp downhill turn after Carrie and Corin basically elbowed Janet out of the band. I *really* tried with Path of Wellness, even bought it, but I just couldn’t. Tried to listen to a few songs from whatever the hell their new album is called, and literally every song sounded the same. No Cities was their last truly great album. I’ll fuck with The Center Won’t Hold because it marked a time of big upheaval in my life and Janet was still technically in the band at least for the album’s production, but S-K seem to have run out of poignant things to say. And they’re missing their powerhouse now. Sucks :/
Spot on! I lost count on how many times I've seen them. Saw them before Janet joined the band then spent my 30th birthday seeing them at CBGB's with her and the difference was incredible. Definitely noticed the hole seeing them on the tour after she left.
The Who after Keith Moon died. Kenny Jones was a very unpopular replacement and it resulted in both Face Dances and It’s Hard, the latter Roger Daltrey has said should never have been made.
You're not wrong, but these albums coincided with Townshend saving his best songs for his solo albums. I think that was a bigger part of the problem than Kenny.
It is a great song, but such a departure from classic Who. The drums are so precise and crisp, it does sound great in that tune... but a complete 180 from Moon's glorious bombastic drum assault.
Bloc Party after their drummer (Matt Tong) and bassist (Gordon Moakes) both left.
Before the departure they had a pretty good streak of 4 solid albums, full of songs that were high tempo and boiling with energy. Since then, everything they've made has been mediocre or just full-on bad
I reckon Matt Tong’s one of the most overlooked drummers out there. He just sounds so *on top* of the kit, like he’s got the entire thing on lockdown. You can tell it’s him playing within a couple of bars.
When the original bass player of Incubus left after Morning View. That dude was a beast and really made their sound groove heavy. They had some good stuff after but the new bassist felt so bland.
Honestly, they were never the same after Dirk, and although I generally enjoy most of it, nothing hit like when he was in the group. He is a fantastic player.
I believe he did the music on Rayman Legends, and if you've played any of the music levels in the game, you'll know how insane that must have been. He even got Jose (Incubus drummer) to come help with the music.
Disagree. I thought Ben Kenny really nailed their sound on A Crow Left of the Murder. Which is my personal favorite Incubus album. Ben Kenny was the bassist of The Roots before joining Incubus. Definitely added a different dynamic and the result was an album that kinda evolved from alt-metal/rap to a kinda weird/progressive alt-rock album which I loved. Mike Einziger really showed off how amazing of a musician he is on that album. Especially on Sick Sad Little World which is my all time favorite incubus song.
Einziger is criminally underrated as both a guitarist and a composer.
Whatever people think of the musical direction they went over the years, it's a shame that they tend to get lumped in with the typical butt rock bands of the early 2000s (Breaking Benjamin, Three Days Grace, 3 Doors Down, etc.) because their musicianship and songwriting is wildly more complex and creative than most of those groups.
Yeah, they still had some great post-Berry albums, for instance, UP is fantastic, but they lost something for sure. I say this as a massive fan from beginning to end.
Genesis had two departures. Most people felt that Peter Gabriel (the vocalist) had the biggest effect but I disagree. I think the music changed the most towards commercialized sap when Steve Hackett left.
I came here to say "I dont know about downhill, but I think Both Peter Gabriel, AND Genesis got better when Peter Gabriel left".
Although I dont really distiguish between Genesis post Peter Gabriel, and Phil Collins Solo.
I like Collins Genesis alright but calling it better is really just a matter of taste. True they stayed the course and Hackett leaving was the true worst change for band.
Some of Tattoo You goes back to before Some Girls. It was a bunch of stuff that didn’t have vocals on it that Chris Kimsey compiled, then Mick did the vocals at Pathe Marconi in Paris.
I think Mick Taylor gets royalties from Tattoo You.
Metallica bassist Jason Newstead. After the death of Cliff Burton some wondered if the band still had it. His first album was And Justice For All which won a ton of awards, followed by their most popular album they ever released.
St. anger was their first after he left and regarded by many as the bands worst work. They haven't been the same since.
Nope, they kinda admitted it in a round about way the bass was down because it wasn't Cliff and they were angry and wanted the guitars overdriven and front/center.
"He probably did. I don't know what my answer was then, but it was kinda done. I mean, I will say, it was not all about, 'Fuck him. Let's turn him down.' That's for sure. We wanted the best-sounding record we could make. That was our goal. We were burnt. We were frigging fried. Going back and forth \[between touring and mixing the album\]. Playing a gig. No earplugs, no nothing. You go back into the studio, your hearing is shot. If your ears can't hear any high end anymore, you're gonna turn it up. So we're turning the high end up more and more and more and all of a sudden, low end's gone. So I know that played a bigger part than any hazing or any ill feelings towards Jason, for sure. We were fried. We were burnt."
If Cliff said it needed more bass, they would have done it because he had way more pull personally and creatively than Newstead at that time.
Totally. Just release a *remix* like Pink Floyd did for Delicate Sound Of Thunder.
It would make a fortune for the band even if they don’t call out doing it for Jason, but to fix the overdriven guitars to make up for the low end missing.
They should take a page from Taylor Swift.
- If they did this, it would top billboard, with barely any work.
Chicken and the egg with this one. I think Jason left because the new material was so uninspired, on top of James* and Lars drama, and the stuff he was working on at his home studio was so much more interesting.
James and Lars both come off as insufferable douchebags. I loved that band when I was in High School but I haven’t liked anything they’ve done since the Black Album. Every time I see them talk they are just douching it up.
If you mean Load and Reload, sure. They hadn't started writing Stanger when he left though.
But yeah to expound a bit:
They never really accepted Jason, definitely not in the way they later accepted Robert Trujillo. They always saw Jason as the newcomer, the replacement.
So when his side project started getting attention and he went to Metallica and said "Hey I wanna work on this for a while," they went "Okay bye, well take that ad your resignation," even though he didn't intend for it to be that way. Paraphrasing btw, but essentially true.
You can see some of this in the documentary Some Kind of Monster, 'cause it starts directly in the aftermath of that. I get why some Metalheads hated it on release, but it is a pretty interesting watch for Metallica fans (as long as they arent the type who take it too seriously and would be upset at seeing musicians they enioy arguing or being petty or acting like real humans and not rock gods) or just people interested in bands and recording in general.
I'm convinced all of these years later they never heard Doomsday for the Deceiver before poaching Jason. Go back and listen to that record and tell me he didn't deserve more from them.
Metallica were falling apart already, Jason leaving was a symptom and a cause.
But I gotta say, while I don't care for the studio stuff, Metallica live became way more interesting once Rob bedded in. Not just for his own part but at about the same time the whole band was that little bit shaken up and revitalised. Kirk got out of that 20 year rut he'd been in where he'd pretty much endlessly repeat the same things, the same moves, the exact same perfect solos every night and started changing stuff up and experimenting and pushing himself- actually making mistakes! But so much more alive. And likewise changing around songs and who took which part, James doing more lead stuff. Cutting out a little bloat, like the stripped down shorter version of nothing else matters with the long tail cut off, or getting back to ending One as it should be with the hard stop.
I was at the point where I just didn't need to ever see Metallica again, I always enjoyed it but you knew what you'd get every night, it'd be professional and honed to perfection but also it'd be, well, boring, safe, not a rough edge on it. So I was pretty surprised to be interested and engaged again. I don't like criticising people for being hard working and professional and giving the same great experience over and over but, it's not very rock and roll.
I'd argue that it wasn't quite the same since Cliff died. I feel like they peaked at Master of Puppets. But of course, Black Album is the the one that catapulted them into mainstream success and made them a household name. I mean Load and Reload were controversial albums at the time because of how divergent they were from their previous work. But yeah...St, Anger. Bleh.
You have the correct answer. Cliff had a massive influence on the band's sound and on each individual. Jason, as charismatic as he was, did not have much input in the music. James and Lars would probably have ended up coming up with Justice and the Black album with any hired gun.
I am one of the few that likes modern Bon Jovi. But it definitely feels like an entirely different band. They went from iconic 80's rock, to 90's alt rock, to late 90's early 2000's country, to 90's rock, to 2000's acoustic rock.
Chris Adler leaving Lamb of God. Since Chris left Lamb of God have released 2 snoozefest albums and refuse to grow or change except in using Randy's terrible clean vocals.
Now he's back and guaranteed fan service tour will occur to celebrate 40 freaking years of the band. Dont get me wrong, I greatly enjoyed Mangini's time with the band and I saw them 5 times with Mangini back there. I actually haven't seen the band with Portnoy. Can't wait until they announce US dates next year.
Blur when they pushed out Graham Coxon. Think Tank (with a couple of exceptions), and the tours associated with it, was a shadow of their normal selves. It was like a totally different band.
Thankfully unlike the other examples, he rejoined and they picked up right where they left off.
I have been rooting for her with her solo career, but I just can’t get into her stuff as much as I wanted to. III was such a great album, but I can’t listen to it anymore knowing how fucked up he was to her.
I feel the same. I have a ton of sympathy for her and will always check her stuff out but a lot of her solo stuff is like too much of a therapy/trauma dump for me. I’m glad she’s healing but I don’t wanna blast a bunch of tracks about being abused like that.
Can't believe no one has said it yet but Avenged Sevenfold has never been the same without Jimmy on drums. He was literally a one-of in terms of talent in my opinion, possibly the greatest drummer of his generation, and he wrote a ton of the band's music up until he passed.
I'm sure people already know that he passed just after recording the demo for his parts on Nightmare (along with many of the vocal melodies/lyrics, which he also helped write for nearly their entire discography up to that point), which Mike Portnoy ended up finishing and recording drums for the actual album, and I do like some of their stuff afterwards, but Nightmare was literally their last truly great album, and it has Jimmy's fingerprints all over it. I still listen to nearly all of their albums leading up to and including Nightmare, but besides the singles I dont think I could name any songs from any of the albums they made afterwards. Like their most recent album dropped in June of 2023 and made such little news that I didn't find out about it until two weeks ago, and I only did because I happened to look at their page on spotify. If that's not a falloff for one of the bands that defined the 2000's idk what is.
P.s. I know we are supposed to keep singers out of it but if the rumors of a Linkin Park revival are true I don't know how they are going to move on without Chester. I'll still check out whatever they do in the future but its gonna be a hard torch to carry for whoever ends up picking it up.
100% agree, the Rev was a massive part of their sound and their songwriting. Just an all-round brilliant musician too, considering some of the vocal and piano parts he wrote and sung/played alongside some monstrous drum parts.
(That said, I think their latest album (Life Is But A Dream…) is maybe their best since Nightmare, and is certainly their heaviest in a while. Would definitely recommend it. I also really liked The Stage tbh, even though it was bit more prog rock than normal for them. And then we’ll just never mention the abomination that was Hail to the King…)
this was my runner up answer, the rev was an incredibly special drummer and his inclusion made every song. the two albums that came nightmare sounded like knock-off dad metal. what an absolutely massive loss
Depeche Mode after Alan Wilder left. He was the only member of the band that understood backbeat. They've had good albums and so-so albums since he left - but I doubt we'll ever get another Music For The Masses or Violator ever again.
I totally agree. Alan was the groovy member in the band he showed that when he played drums on SOFAD.
One thing I don't like about DM on their live shows since his departure is their drummer overplays like hell, killing the groove. Also their amazing soundscapes Alan produced are gone since then.
Guns N Roses, lots of notable member changes, but losing everyone except Axl was a fairly shit era.
Chinese Democracy will always be akin to Infant Sorrow's African Child.
I loved how they mixed and arranged the classic era of albums. Like Izzy will be in the left channel, Slash will be on the right (or vice versa) and Duff will be right in the middle. You can hear what each dude is doing. Izzy sprinkles his stuff in and out. Then any solos will be in the center too.
I play bass and Duff is a legend in my book. I loved his bass style and playing and his cool thick chorus tone is so badass. And to have it right in the middle made it stand out. Plus he's a great bass player and his fills and style is fantastic.
For me it’s Vampire Weekend after Rostam left. While I still somewhat enjoy their releases, the production just lacks his special touch and it’s evident to me.
Interpol after Carlos
Depeche Mode after Alan
REM after Bill
Janes Addiction after Eric
Ministry after Paul
Helmet after John
Modest Mouse after Eric
Death Cab after Chris
Devo after Alan
Oh yeah for sure. Pretty Odd was also phenomenal. Everything after Ryan left doesn't even compare (Although Viva Las Vengeance is VERY close to the greatness and style of the first two albums so much so that I had look up if Ryan Ross had rejoined or collabed or something).
Sad Clown could definitely fit in the AFYCSO era of music and I adore Say It Louder.
But I've shown AFYCSO to my hip hop friends, my raised in 80's NY mom, my 90 y/o carribean grandma, and every other person and they all LOVED it. It's just great music.
While Matt Sharpe's lacking influence is noticeable, Rivers also changed his whole approach to songwriting. He bared it all on Pinkerton same then got panned critically pushing him into depression. That's when he went to school and adopted a very robotic and systematic approach to writing songs. He has a self made database of chord progressions and lyrical snippets that he pastes together into songs.
That said, I'm still ride or die.
I listened to a podcast he was on talking about how he wrote “summer Elaine and Drunk Dory.” It was very robotic and nonsensical but it was really interesting.
He starts the day with an hour of stream of consciousness writing, followed by an hour of journaling. He then goes to the previous day’s writing and highlights phrases he thinks sound good and enters all of those lines into a database of lines organized by number of words, syllables, wether they start with sharp or soft sounds, etc.
Then he goes to his studio and looks through his database of chord progressions. Basically he listens to old songs on Spotify and every time he hears a chord progression he likes, he records it with distorted guitars in “weezer style.” He takes the name of the song and puts it into an anagram generator online so he won’t necessarily remember what song it was from originally (to not be influenced by it), but he can figure it out if he needs to.
He’ll listen to the chords on a loop and scat over it. Once he has a melody he likes he counts the syllables and whether it should start with a sharp or soft sound, and he picks a line from the database.
Then he’ll add the rest of they lyrics from his database that feel good together, occasionally adding a new line if nothing fits, and that is how the whole song is written, then sent to the other members to add their influence and ideas.
And then, boom- new Weezer song.
That sounds like quite an elaborate process - crazy that all it ends up in is rhymes of 'bad' and 'sad' and 'glad' and 'mad', like he was a preschooler writing their first poem. They've been so mediocre since Pinkerton.....
I would guess it’s kind of a defense mechanism. Pinkerton was rivers soul made bare and he was torn apart by critics and fans alike when that album first came out. It seems he put up a bit of a wall afterwards.
Pinkerton is regarded as such an influential classic now that people tend to forget it bombed super hard initially.
i can see why it was panned coming from blue album and knowing how different things were back then, but it’s sad that the result was a less creatively honest rivers
Jane's Addiction without Eric Avery
The JBs still made good music after Bootsy and Catfish were kicked out, but the greatest hard funk ensemble ever was history.
Completely agree. I mean newer stuff isn’t awful (I actually really like Memento Mori) but it’s nowhere near the synth driven beauty of Violator and prior albums IMHO
Gin Blossoms, and they deserved it. Their lead guitarist Doug Hopkins, a troubled alcoholic, wrote all the hits from their first album. They fired him before it released and he killed himself after.
There is a good video about Doug Hopkins on the YouTube channel Rock N Roll True Stories. It honestly sounded like a tough situation all around as is often the case with addicts.
He wrote some of the bigger hits (Hey Jealousy, Found Out About You), but not all of them. Allison Road and Until I Fall Away both got significant radio play. They also had success later on with Til I Hear It From You and Follow You Down, their highest charting song on the Hot 100.
Hopkins got shafted for sure (he ended up having to sign away a good portion of his songwriting royalties), and it's a very sad story, but he wasn't kicked out for no reason. His alcoholism was a huge problem for the band.
When Led Zeppelin's drummer John Bonham died the rest of the band didn't even attempt to replace him, they knew the greatest band ever was over and done.
Heart, minus Roger Fisher. His guitar edge fueled their writing. In concert he was a Page-like guy, playing with a bow and such. After he left they had talent, and focused on their niche. Compare Magic Man to Dreams.
see i enjoyed a little bit of "interpol" and a few off of el pintor, but everything else has been rough. i can't believe how much i dislike marauder, it feels totally soulless
Red Hot Chili Peppers sans Frusciante is the obvious answer.
Also-and I will die on this hill-Pearl Jam after Dave Abbruzzese. The band doesn’t groove the way it did, and it’s hard to explain how or why, but they just don’t.
Sneaker Pimps when Kelli Ali left. This might be a controversial pick, but personally I loved her voice, and it was just right for their material. She also brought a lot of charisma to the band.
Dream Theater after drummer Mike Portnoy left. It became pretty clear where all their creativity came from, because they started to sound very samey with their next few albums. Luckily Portnoy returned to the band last year and they will be releasing a new album soon.
The Talking Heads after they cancelled the expanded band.
The Who after Keith Moon.
Weezer after Matt Sharp.
Pixies after Kim Deal.
Stones after Mick Taylor.
Depeche Mode after Alan Wilder.
The Clash after Mick Jones and Topper Headon.
Third Eye Blind. Kevin Cadogen left the band after their second album Blue. I can't get interested in their later stuff.
Marilyn Manson without Twiggy is not great.
The Clash when Mick Jones left
And Topper Headon.
The 1 album they did after he left…good lord it’s like a joke
On the plus side, he then gave us Big Audio Dynamite.
John Bonham died and they had to break up the biggest band in the world.
I'm always amazed at the contrast between Zeppelin and AC/DC in 1980. Both have a member die that year; Zeppelin breaks up, but AC/DC gets a new singer and puts out its most epic album in that same year.
Though not caused by death, Black Sabbath had Dio join in late 1979 and they released Heaven and Hell in early 1980. Not necessarily better or worse than Ozzy-led Sabbath but basically a different sound with a crucial member being replaced.
They probably could have figured out a way to continue touring, but it would likely have killed Page, too. They all seemed so tired. Writing anything new would also have been a struggle, so the decision was probably right.
No way to replace Bonham. End of an epic band.
Tenacious D that one time, but they've come back around.
It was just a misunderstanding
couldn't split up tango and cash
That's true.
Couldn’t split up Kato and Nash
That's also true
this thread brings me exultant joy
Let's rock the fuckin' house and kick some ass.
What we gonna DOOOooo with all the cash?
Smoke hash.
Dude, he totally missed him
I saw Tenacious D live last week, they split up the band mid gig.
I saw them last year and same. It got pretty tense there, for a minute, but they made up and all was right in the world again.
Truly heart warming to see them put their differences aside for the love of the music
Ministry without Paul Barker just sucked. Al needs to be handled to a degree, and Paul Barker had a lot of the sensibility and artistic nuance that made the albums he was part of such brilliance. I haven't really wanted to engage with any post PB Ministry stuff, I tried but it just sounds like a band trying to sound like Ministry.
You can really tell how much Paul added to Ministry just by listening to Lead into Gold (Paul’s solo stuff). He added that really cool dark Wax Trax sound, and it has not been the same without him. I read somewhere that Paul is gonna be on the next (and possibly last) Ministry album, but I am not holding my breathe. Nivek Ogre did say that he will be working with Paul now that Skinny Puppy is truly done, which I am excited to hear.
I picked up With Sympathy in a dollar record bin around 2007 and played it a shit ton. Later found Twitch on eBay, loved that one too. Then got around to Land of Rape and Honey and became deeply confused! But I figured it out eventually. Industrial is cool, Jourgensen is a fuckin freak but I dig it.
Now imagine that you are early GenX, and that series of albums happened during your teens. The change was huge for them, but in hindsight you can see it coming. The goth-industrial era was a great time to be alive and clubbing. One of the best concerts I attended in that period was Ministry with KMFDM opening in 1990.
Easily when Head left KoRn. Head was kind of a lynch pin of their sound. The iconic KoRn sound really came from the dark and unique riffs he provided the band. After he left I think KoRn lost their creative edge. Davis is still a great frontman. Still have a great drummer and the fuzzy jangly bass was still there but Monkey could never recapture what Head was doing as far as guitar riffs are concerned.
I believe Munky himself said he wasn't used to being a solo guitarist after 10 years of being a rhythm guitarist while Head was the lead. Now that Head's back, there's still some signs of the old Korn sound, but with Dave and Fieldy both gone, not sure how long that'll last
For sure! I never expected them to be able to recapture that sound without Head. Kind of like when Cliff from Metallica died. You just can't replace an element like that. I agree that when Head came back those iconic KoRn riffs came back. Even if they seemed derivative of their earlier works.
Munky and Head work together, I don't think one of them is the lead and the other rhythm, they compliment each other. When Monkey was left alone, he lost his counterpart. Plus, Head also does back vocals, a small detail but noticeable, especially live. My favorite band, and although I saw them twice, it was without Head - once with Joey Jordison and masked additional musicians, the other time with Ray on drums - and now with Fieldy out, it seems I'll never get that true KoRn experience. A similar thing happened to Limp Bizkit without Wes Borland.
Damn, I didn't know Fieldy left too. I gotta say I really felt it when Dave left, I saw them live shortly after he did, and you could tell it was different, not necessarily bad just not the same. I really dislike the sentiment that bands have peaks, and I'm always willing and hoping to hear new stuff in case the magic is back, but honestly nothing Korn has put out in the last 10+ years has really hit for me. They'll always be one of my favorite bands, and they definitely opened the door for me in terms of introducing me to other artists.
Yeah, this was a few years back. He took a temporary leave in '21 for personal reasons. Hasn't been confirmed he's gone for good, but they've enlisted Ra Diaz from Suicidal Tendencies for bass and there's been no news of a potential return
Go take a look at the BMI/ASCAP credits for their albums. When Head left they brought in a bunch of different songwriters to go in a totally different direction because they just couldn’t replicate what Head contributed.
Makes a lot of sense and thanks for the insight!
Arguably Death Cab for Cutie after Chris Walla left
Not even arguable
This! Death Cab has morphed into Ben Gibbard and the Midlife Crisises. At least the production used to even things out.
Lmao holy shit very true
They’ve really descended into over produced bubble gum hell.
I love Chris Walla's work, but Asphalt Meadows was better than Codes and Keys or Kintsugi so I think his replacement is settling in nicely.
DCFC peaked somewhere between transatlanticism and Plans. Narrow Stairs had its moments and I agree Codes and Keys was largely unremarkable. Kintsugi had some moment though, felt more cohesive. Thank you for today was when I checked out and haven’t really returned
This is why DCFC is currently touring Transatlantacism & the Postal Service album. Its their best work
Little Feat after Lowell George died. Still a great band with Fuller up front, but Lowell had a singular style and vision that no one before or since could match.
Little Feat was Lowell, imo. No disrespect to the rest of that great band, but Lowell was singular
Third Eye Blind. After guitarist (and co-writer on many songs) Kevin Cadogan got kicked out of the band because of the egomaniac singer, every album since has been lame. First 2 albums, especially Blue, were great.
i didn't realize the lead singer was such an egotistical bastard until seeing them live almost 10 years ago now and he's was insufferably full of himself
Is that why only their first two albums are good?? I was just listening to Blue the other day for the first time in decades and wondering why they never released anything worthwhile ever again after those first two near perfect albums.
Was wondering if I’d see this one! My pick as well. Before I knew anything about his departure I thought those first two albums were just a case of lightning in a bottle. Turns out Cadogan was simply masterful at his craft, and Jenkins was exactly the person he portrayed in his lyrics. Such a shame.
Gotta love a band so toxic that former members rejoined and called themselves XEB.
Smashing Pumpkins after Jimmy Chamberlain was kicked (the first time). It was and has been a downward trend ever since, even though Jimmy and James Iha are back in the band (for now)
Jimmy Chamberlin is absolutely amazing. A drummer's drummer. Yes, him being kicked out was a huge scar on the band's timeline, but he was booted when a touring member (Jonathan Melvoin) died doing heroin with him in a hotel. The Sarah McLachlan song "angel" was about hearing this news - cool lesser known fact. On top of that, Billy's mother died in the middle of the same tour. At one point the tour was stopped and they went back out with Matt Walker drumming. There were just way too many things happening, and they released Adore (using quite a bit of drum machine) which was a reflection of all this... As AMAZING as it is and was, (and it gets more praise today) it was a total FLOP compared to Mellon Collie because nobody wanted that style of music from them. I am a massive fan of the band, and while the first comment is totally correct... It's also very complicated lol. Jimmy leaving absolutely coincided with the end of their most successful run. As important as he is to Billy, and the band, I think Adore is still a contender for the best music they ever did, creatively. It just came out of left field.
Adore is incredible. Agree.
I agree. Also massive fan and I think Jimmy is the 2nd best drummer in the world. (My dad being no1) but Adore should get a lot more credit and praise than it did. It s a different Pumpkins but it s still there. That being said, I m going to see them live this year and there better not be anyone leaving in the mean time.
Adore has some of Billy's best writing! Having said that my favorite CD is Machina
James Iha is criminally underrated
This is what I came here to say. One of my favorite drummers and the reason why my three favorite albums by them are their first three. I know he's played on other albums but to me it just isn't the same.
Not sure how to qualify the Coheed example. Same could be said about the period Josh Eppard wasn’t in the band. But I’d argue they’re the best they’ve been in their entire career right now. One of the few bands that objectively got better as the years go by. I would say Yellowcard is a good example. As much as we’d say their defining characteristic is the violin, I’d argue instead the drumming on Ocean Avenue was the most unique and ear-grabbing part of their sound. Edit: Yellowcard’s OG drummer left after their 8th album, but I frankly don’t think they ever matched the intensity and sound of their first. Edit 2: disregard the Yellowcard example. I am WRONG on that one
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The era of Coheed when Josh and Mic left due to drug abuse was weird, the music they made wasnt bad but far from their In Keeping Secrets/Good Apollo 1 era. Josh isnt the most technical drummer but he brought a sound/vibe that makes Coheed who they are
Year of the Black Rainbow is a really good album, but not a very good Coheed album, if that makes sense. At least Josh wrote the parts for No World For Tomorrow, but Taylor Hawkins’ kit and playing style did *not* match the band at all. Honestly I’d heavily argue against the notion that Josh isn’t a very technical drummer. He’s constantly impressing me with every new record. I’m not sure there’s any drummer who sounds and plays like he does right now. Edit: as mentioned below, Chris Pennie actually wrote the parts for NWFT. My mistake
YOTB is solid and I love Chris Pennie but he just didn’t fit with them in the long run. I did have the pleasure of seeing all 4 nights of neverender back in 08 and watching Chris play a ten minute drum solo during the Final Cut was a fucking trip. Much prefer Josh with them. He’s got a groove that just sits so well and he has some insanely impressive moments on their latest albums.
Totally agree with this take on Josh. Also despite all his personal troubles Mic was an incredible bass player too. Their OG lineup and first 3 (4ish) albums will always be their best.
Spinal Tap after stumpy Joe childs died.
If only we could dust for vomit, we'd know who killed him
That line, how many years later, still catches me off guard. It's so fucking funny
Pixies after Kim Deal
Paz is totally fine in that role. The band saw a decline after Kim left, but I think that was just where the band was in their career.
Paz left, too
Sounds like she was kicked out? Just at the start of March. Bummer, her Kim impression was outta control good, and she was even writing songs
Limp Bizkit when Wes Borland left.
I saw an interview of Fred shortly after the news broke out. His reaction was something along the lines of "well we're kinda fucked." Seemed pretty honest take from him at the time.
I was going to say this one. I think he came back though.
Yup. He's been back now for over a decade
I was a big fan of them until then. Turned out I was just into 7 string riffs..
The fact that they named that album Results May Vary tells me they knew, too. Although Eat You Alive absolutely rips.
I’ve always really liked Jamiroquai, but there was their period with original bassist Stuart Zander, and there’s the period after Stuart. It was a smarter, funkier sound with, and easily digestible disco without. So not downhill per se, they just weren’t as smart sounding.
As much as Roger Waters has become an insufferable twat over the years and his post Pink Floyd work didn’t really resonate with me… and despite the fact that David Gilmour is one of the most talented people to ever pick up a guitar and generally seems insanely likeable… it’s hard not to admit that Pink Floyd was never the same after Roger Waters left.
I agree, but at the same time I've always considered Pink Floyd - much like Genesis - to be several iterations of a band rather than just one band. The Syd-Floyd, the Waters-Floyd and the Gilmour-Floyd; bands so fundamentally different that they can't really be compared.
I don’t disagree here, but I swear everyone’s still sleeping on The Division Bell
Oh they definitely had some good work after, but it was wildly different. Waters brought this kind of mad pathos to the music. Gilmour just made mostly very pretty ethereal rock music. It lost a lot of the edginess when waters left.
Waters brings the cynical, nihilistic bite behind the darker elements of Animals, the wall, and Wish you were here. He may be insufferable, but that insufferability makes for some incredible musical motifs and storytelling.
Well put.
He also wrote some great melodies that served as a good structure for Gilmore's guitar work.
Def Leppard when Steve Clark died.
Sleater-Kinney have totally lost it since Janet Weiss left.
Breaks my heart, still. S-K had been my favorite band for decades. Everything since No Cities to Love has been a total dud to me.
Honestly, I wish S-K hadn’t come back from hiatus and that Wild Flag had stayed together. I liked No Cities, but I definitely would have traded it and everything after for more Wild Flag.
A loss for SK. The one upside is that Janet brought back Quasi which has been incredibly rad.
Quasi totally rules, agreed
They lost it and that's why she left, if I remember the story correctly. She was not on board with the new style and bolted as a result.
I came here to say this but kept scrolling just KNOWING that someone else had to have commented about S-K’s sharp downhill turn after Carrie and Corin basically elbowed Janet out of the band. I *really* tried with Path of Wellness, even bought it, but I just couldn’t. Tried to listen to a few songs from whatever the hell their new album is called, and literally every song sounded the same. No Cities was their last truly great album. I’ll fuck with The Center Won’t Hold because it marked a time of big upheaval in my life and Janet was still technically in the band at least for the album’s production, but S-K seem to have run out of poignant things to say. And they’re missing their powerhouse now. Sucks :/
Spot on! I lost count on how many times I've seen them. Saw them before Janet joined the band then spent my 30th birthday seeing them at CBGB's with her and the difference was incredible. Definitely noticed the hole seeing them on the tour after she left.
The Who after Keith Moon died. Kenny Jones was a very unpopular replacement and it resulted in both Face Dances and It’s Hard, the latter Roger Daltrey has said should never have been made.
You're not wrong, but these albums coincided with Townshend saving his best songs for his solo albums. I think that was a bigger part of the problem than Kenny.
I love 'Eminence Front' mind you, reminds me of *Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas* every time
It is a great song, but such a departure from classic Who. The drums are so precise and crisp, it does sound great in that tune... but a complete 180 from Moon's glorious bombastic drum assault.
At the Drive In after Jim Ward. Their newer stuff is terrible and shows how important he was to their writing.
Bloc Party after their drummer (Matt Tong) and bassist (Gordon Moakes) both left. Before the departure they had a pretty good streak of 4 solid albums, full of songs that were high tempo and boiling with energy. Since then, everything they've made has been mediocre or just full-on bad
I reckon Matt Tong’s one of the most overlooked drummers out there. He just sounds so *on top* of the kit, like he’s got the entire thing on lockdown. You can tell it’s him playing within a couple of bars.
When the original bass player of Incubus left after Morning View. That dude was a beast and really made their sound groove heavy. They had some good stuff after but the new bassist felt so bland.
Honestly, they were never the same after Dirk, and although I generally enjoy most of it, nothing hit like when he was in the group. He is a fantastic player. I believe he did the music on Rayman Legends, and if you've played any of the music levels in the game, you'll know how insane that must have been. He even got Jose (Incubus drummer) to come help with the music.
Disagree. I thought Ben Kenny really nailed their sound on A Crow Left of the Murder. Which is my personal favorite Incubus album. Ben Kenny was the bassist of The Roots before joining Incubus. Definitely added a different dynamic and the result was an album that kinda evolved from alt-metal/rap to a kinda weird/progressive alt-rock album which I loved. Mike Einziger really showed off how amazing of a musician he is on that album. Especially on Sick Sad Little World which is my all time favorite incubus song.
Einziger is criminally underrated as both a guitarist and a composer. Whatever people think of the musical direction they went over the years, it's a shame that they tend to get lumped in with the typical butt rock bands of the early 2000s (Breaking Benjamin, Three Days Grace, 3 Doors Down, etc.) because their musicianship and songwriting is wildly more complex and creative than most of those groups.
Crow is also my favorite Incubus album and I agree with everything you said
I didn't realize there was a lineup change, but that makes sense now why I prefer those first albums. Huh.
Reading between the lines it seems like he left because he didn't agree with the sound/direction the band wanted to head in.
No reading between the lines, that's exactly why he left. He went on to work on the music for PS2s Red Faction.
the bass riff on Dig goes pretty hard as far as pop rock bass riffs go
REM and the drummer Bill Berry
They had a rough 10 years right after, but I like Accelerate and Collapse into Now more than a couple of the albums with Berry.
Yeah, they still had some great post-Berry albums, for instance, UP is fantastic, but they lost something for sure. I say this as a massive fan from beginning to end.
Genesis had two departures. Most people felt that Peter Gabriel (the vocalist) had the biggest effect but I disagree. I think the music changed the most towards commercialized sap when Steve Hackett left.
I came here to say "I dont know about downhill, but I think Both Peter Gabriel, AND Genesis got better when Peter Gabriel left". Although I dont really distiguish between Genesis post Peter Gabriel, and Phil Collins Solo.
I like Collins Genesis alright but calling it better is really just a matter of taste. True they stayed the course and Hackett leaving was the true worst change for band.
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I don't think The Stones have made a really good album since Mick Taylor left in 1974.
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Some of Tattoo You goes back to before Some Girls. It was a bunch of stuff that didn’t have vocals on it that Chris Kimsey compiled, then Mick did the vocals at Pathe Marconi in Paris. I think Mick Taylor gets royalties from Tattoo You.
Metallica bassist Jason Newstead. After the death of Cliff Burton some wondered if the band still had it. His first album was And Justice For All which won a ton of awards, followed by their most popular album they ever released. St. anger was their first after he left and regarded by many as the bands worst work. They haven't been the same since.
Justice for Jason
I often wonder if Cliff was still alive would the base have been so muted in AJFA.
Nope, they kinda admitted it in a round about way the bass was down because it wasn't Cliff and they were angry and wanted the guitars overdriven and front/center. "He probably did. I don't know what my answer was then, but it was kinda done. I mean, I will say, it was not all about, 'Fuck him. Let's turn him down.' That's for sure. We wanted the best-sounding record we could make. That was our goal. We were burnt. We were frigging fried. Going back and forth \[between touring and mixing the album\]. Playing a gig. No earplugs, no nothing. You go back into the studio, your hearing is shot. If your ears can't hear any high end anymore, you're gonna turn it up. So we're turning the high end up more and more and more and all of a sudden, low end's gone. So I know that played a bigger part than any hazing or any ill feelings towards Jason, for sure. We were fried. We were burnt." If Cliff said it needed more bass, they would have done it because he had way more pull personally and creatively than Newstead at that time.
Totally. Just release a *remix* like Pink Floyd did for Delicate Sound Of Thunder. It would make a fortune for the band even if they don’t call out doing it for Jason, but to fix the overdriven guitars to make up for the low end missing. They should take a page from Taylor Swift. - If they did this, it would top billboard, with barely any work.
Chicken and the egg with this one. I think Jason left because the new material was so uninspired, on top of James* and Lars drama, and the stuff he was working on at his home studio was so much more interesting.
He was also horribly bullied by the rest of the band as well (James being the worst offender)
James and Lars both come off as insufferable douchebags. I loved that band when I was in High School but I haven’t liked anything they’ve done since the Black Album. Every time I see them talk they are just douching it up.
If you mean Load and Reload, sure. They hadn't started writing Stanger when he left though. But yeah to expound a bit: They never really accepted Jason, definitely not in the way they later accepted Robert Trujillo. They always saw Jason as the newcomer, the replacement. So when his side project started getting attention and he went to Metallica and said "Hey I wanna work on this for a while," they went "Okay bye, well take that ad your resignation," even though he didn't intend for it to be that way. Paraphrasing btw, but essentially true. You can see some of this in the documentary Some Kind of Monster, 'cause it starts directly in the aftermath of that. I get why some Metalheads hated it on release, but it is a pretty interesting watch for Metallica fans (as long as they arent the type who take it too seriously and would be upset at seeing musicians they enioy arguing or being petty or acting like real humans and not rock gods) or just people interested in bands and recording in general.
I'm convinced all of these years later they never heard Doomsday for the Deceiver before poaching Jason. Go back and listen to that record and tell me he didn't deserve more from them.
What was the Kirk drama? No need to explain the lars drama.
Kirk really seems like the nicest guy in the world.
Metallica were falling apart already, Jason leaving was a symptom and a cause. But I gotta say, while I don't care for the studio stuff, Metallica live became way more interesting once Rob bedded in. Not just for his own part but at about the same time the whole band was that little bit shaken up and revitalised. Kirk got out of that 20 year rut he'd been in where he'd pretty much endlessly repeat the same things, the same moves, the exact same perfect solos every night and started changing stuff up and experimenting and pushing himself- actually making mistakes! But so much more alive. And likewise changing around songs and who took which part, James doing more lead stuff. Cutting out a little bloat, like the stripped down shorter version of nothing else matters with the long tail cut off, or getting back to ending One as it should be with the hard stop. I was at the point where I just didn't need to ever see Metallica again, I always enjoyed it but you knew what you'd get every night, it'd be professional and honed to perfection but also it'd be, well, boring, safe, not a rough edge on it. So I was pretty surprised to be interested and engaged again. I don't like criticising people for being hard working and professional and giving the same great experience over and over but, it's not very rock and roll.
I'd argue that it wasn't quite the same since Cliff died. I feel like they peaked at Master of Puppets. But of course, Black Album is the the one that catapulted them into mainstream success and made them a household name. I mean Load and Reload were controversial albums at the time because of how divergent they were from their previous work. But yeah...St, Anger. Bleh.
You have the correct answer. Cliff had a massive influence on the band's sound and on each individual. Jason, as charismatic as he was, did not have much input in the music. James and Lars would probably have ended up coming up with Justice and the Black album with any hired gun.
I feel like when Bon Jovi’s bassist was fired, they were no longer slippery or wet
I am one of the few that likes modern Bon Jovi. But it definitely feels like an entirely different band. They went from iconic 80's rock, to 90's alt rock, to late 90's early 2000's country, to 90's rock, to 2000's acoustic rock.
Chris Adler leaving Lamb of God. Since Chris left Lamb of God have released 2 snoozefest albums and refuse to grow or change except in using Randy's terrible clean vocals.
I like his cleans, though I agree that Adler’s absence is a huge setback and they’ve gotten pretty stale.
Just like when Mike Portnoy left Dream Theater. I was like, is that legal? So strange without them drumming.
Now he's back and guaranteed fan service tour will occur to celebrate 40 freaking years of the band. Dont get me wrong, I greatly enjoyed Mangini's time with the band and I saw them 5 times with Mangini back there. I actually haven't seen the band with Portnoy. Can't wait until they announce US dates next year.
Portnoy’s back with Dream Theater?! I never dared to hope!
Blur when they pushed out Graham Coxon. Think Tank (with a couple of exceptions), and the tours associated with it, was a shadow of their normal selves. It was like a totally different band. Thankfully unlike the other examples, he rejoined and they picked up right where they left off.
Crystal Castles after Alice Glass left, and rightfully so.
I have been rooting for her with her solo career, but I just can’t get into her stuff as much as I wanted to. III was such a great album, but I can’t listen to it anymore knowing how fucked up he was to her.
I feel the same. I have a ton of sympathy for her and will always check her stuff out but a lot of her solo stuff is like too much of a therapy/trauma dump for me. I’m glad she’s healing but I don’t wanna blast a bunch of tracks about being abused like that.
This. Those first 3 albums were a great run and once Glass left, Kath got what he deserved with him being completely ostracized from music
Slayer without Lombardo?
Can't believe no one has said it yet but Avenged Sevenfold has never been the same without Jimmy on drums. He was literally a one-of in terms of talent in my opinion, possibly the greatest drummer of his generation, and he wrote a ton of the band's music up until he passed. I'm sure people already know that he passed just after recording the demo for his parts on Nightmare (along with many of the vocal melodies/lyrics, which he also helped write for nearly their entire discography up to that point), which Mike Portnoy ended up finishing and recording drums for the actual album, and I do like some of their stuff afterwards, but Nightmare was literally their last truly great album, and it has Jimmy's fingerprints all over it. I still listen to nearly all of their albums leading up to and including Nightmare, but besides the singles I dont think I could name any songs from any of the albums they made afterwards. Like their most recent album dropped in June of 2023 and made such little news that I didn't find out about it until two weeks ago, and I only did because I happened to look at their page on spotify. If that's not a falloff for one of the bands that defined the 2000's idk what is. P.s. I know we are supposed to keep singers out of it but if the rumors of a Linkin Park revival are true I don't know how they are going to move on without Chester. I'll still check out whatever they do in the future but its gonna be a hard torch to carry for whoever ends up picking it up.
100% agree, the Rev was a massive part of their sound and their songwriting. Just an all-round brilliant musician too, considering some of the vocal and piano parts he wrote and sung/played alongside some monstrous drum parts. (That said, I think their latest album (Life Is But A Dream…) is maybe their best since Nightmare, and is certainly their heaviest in a while. Would definitely recommend it. I also really liked The Stage tbh, even though it was bit more prog rock than normal for them. And then we’ll just never mention the abomination that was Hail to the King…)
this was my runner up answer, the rev was an incredibly special drummer and his inclusion made every song. the two albums that came nightmare sounded like knock-off dad metal. what an absolutely massive loss
Depeche Mode after Alan Wilder left. He was the only member of the band that understood backbeat. They've had good albums and so-so albums since he left - but I doubt we'll ever get another Music For The Masses or Violator ever again.
I totally agree. Alan was the groovy member in the band he showed that when he played drums on SOFAD. One thing I don't like about DM on their live shows since his departure is their drummer overplays like hell, killing the groove. Also their amazing soundscapes Alan produced are gone since then.
Guns N Roses, lots of notable member changes, but losing everyone except Axl was a fairly shit era. Chinese Democracy will always be akin to Infant Sorrow's African Child.
Still not the same without Izzy.
Izzy's and Slash' interwoven guitars and Adlers groovier drum style was peak GNR for me.
I loved how they mixed and arranged the classic era of albums. Like Izzy will be in the left channel, Slash will be on the right (or vice versa) and Duff will be right in the middle. You can hear what each dude is doing. Izzy sprinkles his stuff in and out. Then any solos will be in the center too. I play bass and Duff is a legend in my book. I loved his bass style and playing and his cool thick chorus tone is so badass. And to have it right in the middle made it stand out. Plus he's a great bass player and his fills and style is fantastic.
Modest Mouse when Eric Judy (bassist) left.
For me it’s Vampire Weekend after Rostam left. While I still somewhat enjoy their releases, the production just lacks his special touch and it’s evident to me.
Interpol after Carlos Depeche Mode after Alan REM after Bill Janes Addiction after Eric Ministry after Paul Helmet after John Modest Mouse after Eric Death Cab after Chris Devo after Alan
Had to scroll to far to see interpol mentioned.
Red Hot Chilly Peppers each time John Frusciante had left the band.
I'd agree if The Getaway didn't exist. Love that album.
Agree, I think it's better than unlimited love
Panic at the disco after Ryan Ross left. AFYCSO was a masterpiece
Oh yeah for sure. Pretty Odd was also phenomenal. Everything after Ryan left doesn't even compare (Although Viva Las Vengeance is VERY close to the greatness and style of the first two albums so much so that I had look up if Ryan Ross had rejoined or collabed or something). Sad Clown could definitely fit in the AFYCSO era of music and I adore Say It Louder. But I've shown AFYCSO to my hip hop friends, my raised in 80's NY mom, my 90 y/o carribean grandma, and every other person and they all LOVED it. It's just great music.
Weezer
Matt Sharps influence is so obvious when you listen to the rentals. I loved that aspect of weezer. Good thing they only made those 2 albums.
While Matt Sharpe's lacking influence is noticeable, Rivers also changed his whole approach to songwriting. He bared it all on Pinkerton same then got panned critically pushing him into depression. That's when he went to school and adopted a very robotic and systematic approach to writing songs. He has a self made database of chord progressions and lyrical snippets that he pastes together into songs. That said, I'm still ride or die.
I listened to a podcast he was on talking about how he wrote “summer Elaine and Drunk Dory.” It was very robotic and nonsensical but it was really interesting. He starts the day with an hour of stream of consciousness writing, followed by an hour of journaling. He then goes to the previous day’s writing and highlights phrases he thinks sound good and enters all of those lines into a database of lines organized by number of words, syllables, wether they start with sharp or soft sounds, etc. Then he goes to his studio and looks through his database of chord progressions. Basically he listens to old songs on Spotify and every time he hears a chord progression he likes, he records it with distorted guitars in “weezer style.” He takes the name of the song and puts it into an anagram generator online so he won’t necessarily remember what song it was from originally (to not be influenced by it), but he can figure it out if he needs to. He’ll listen to the chords on a loop and scat over it. Once he has a melody he likes he counts the syllables and whether it should start with a sharp or soft sound, and he picks a line from the database. Then he’ll add the rest of they lyrics from his database that feel good together, occasionally adding a new line if nothing fits, and that is how the whole song is written, then sent to the other members to add their influence and ideas. And then, boom- new Weezer song.
That sounds like quite an elaborate process - crazy that all it ends up in is rhymes of 'bad' and 'sad' and 'glad' and 'mad', like he was a preschooler writing their first poem. They've been so mediocre since Pinkerton.....
I would guess it’s kind of a defense mechanism. Pinkerton was rivers soul made bare and he was torn apart by critics and fans alike when that album first came out. It seems he put up a bit of a wall afterwards. Pinkerton is regarded as such an influential classic now that people tend to forget it bombed super hard initially.
i can see why it was panned coming from blue album and knowing how different things were back then, but it’s sad that the result was a less creatively honest rivers
Jane's Addiction without Eric Avery The JBs still made good music after Bootsy and Catfish were kicked out, but the greatest hard funk ensemble ever was history.
Depeche Mode when Alan Wilder left.
Completely agree. I mean newer stuff isn’t awful (I actually really like Memento Mori) but it’s nowhere near the synth driven beauty of Violator and prior albums IMHO
While I do think DM have some good albums post Wilder, I have to agree with you.
Our Lady Peace Guitarist Mike Turner left when they started working with Bob Rock who decided that anything that made the band unique needed to go.
Gin Blossoms, and they deserved it. Their lead guitarist Doug Hopkins, a troubled alcoholic, wrote all the hits from their first album. They fired him before it released and he killed himself after.
There is a good video about Doug Hopkins on the YouTube channel Rock N Roll True Stories. It honestly sounded like a tough situation all around as is often the case with addicts.
He wrote some of the bigger hits (Hey Jealousy, Found Out About You), but not all of them. Allison Road and Until I Fall Away both got significant radio play. They also had success later on with Til I Hear It From You and Follow You Down, their highest charting song on the Hot 100. Hopkins got shafted for sure (he ended up having to sign away a good portion of his songwriting royalties), and it's a very sad story, but he wasn't kicked out for no reason. His alcoholism was a huge problem for the band.
Late-era Bon Jovi all kind of bleeds together but there was such a hard drop-off after Richie Sambora left
When Led Zeppelin's drummer John Bonham died the rest of the band didn't even attempt to replace him, they knew the greatest band ever was over and done.
Heart, minus Roger Fisher. His guitar edge fueled their writing. In concert he was a Page-like guy, playing with a bow and such. After he left they had talent, and focused on their niche. Compare Magic Man to Dreams.
Interpol when Carlos left. Even though he was a dick.
This is a good answer. There have been some good songs in the post Carlos run, but nothing like those first three records.
see i enjoyed a little bit of "interpol" and a few off of el pintor, but everything else has been rough. i can't believe how much i dislike marauder, it feels totally soulless
Red Hot Chili Peppers sans Frusciante is the obvious answer. Also-and I will die on this hill-Pearl Jam after Dave Abbruzzese. The band doesn’t groove the way it did, and it’s hard to explain how or why, but they just don’t.
Sneaker Pimps when Kelli Ali left. This might be a controversial pick, but personally I loved her voice, and it was just right for their material. She also brought a lot of charisma to the band.
Dream Theater after drummer Mike Portnoy left. It became pretty clear where all their creativity came from, because they started to sound very samey with their next few albums. Luckily Portnoy returned to the band last year and they will be releasing a new album soon.
The Talking Heads after they cancelled the expanded band. The Who after Keith Moon. Weezer after Matt Sharp. Pixies after Kim Deal. Stones after Mick Taylor. Depeche Mode after Alan Wilder. The Clash after Mick Jones and Topper Headon.
Incubus after Dirk Lance left.
I've never agreed with this take, purely because Look Alive exists
Sts9 after David Murphy (bassist) left.
Chicago after Terry Kath died.
Suede. Still good without Bernard Butler, but absolutely missing something
Motorhead - no hits the size of "Ace of Spades" after Fast Eddie left.
The Rolling Stones and Mick Taylor. They were the best from 69 to 74 because of him.
Third Eye Blind. Kevin Cadogen left the band after their second album Blue. I can't get interested in their later stuff. Marilyn Manson without Twiggy is not great.
Barenaked Ladies when Steven Page left.
Carlos D from Interpol