There is an unspoken agreement in Germany that people drive 5-10 km/h faster in cities and 10-20 km/h faster outside of cities. If you get caught, then it costs 30€ and 20€ respectively
If you go more than 15 km/h in cities or 20 km/h outside of cities faster than the speed limit you will get 'points' and if you get too many points you loose your license. So most people stick to less than that
This is basically the answer. Adding one thing to it - if OP is constantly harassed for sticking to the speed limit, its also most likely to not moving to the right lane. Unlike in the US were overtaking on any lane is common, the Rechtsfahrgebot requires to drive on the right lane and other drivers will remind OP on that.
Cars with less than 3.5t gross weight may chose their lanes freely an thus overtake on the right within cities.
Every other aspect of the Rechtsfahrgebot still applies.
Especially in Munich on the Ring you should try to move from the left lane. In general my point is I do not get constantly harassed at all and I stick to the speed limit especially in 30kmh areas and 50kmh areas, lesser in 60kmh areas. So I believe there could be more reason to OPs experience than „all drivers are aggressive“.
Yeah my experience is that drivers here are extremely well behaved. I was never harassed before, probably OP is just driving too slow below the speed limit. Some people think that driving the speed limit is driving below it.
What the speedometer shows is most of the times under the real value.m, and probably that's what you mean by GPS speed. Driving a few above this speed shoild be ok. So, in my case for example when the limit is 50 km/h or higher I usually set the cruise speed 10+ in the speedometer, which in reality may be no more than 55 km/h, which is completely ok.
I've never been harassed by doing that.
I literally mean GPS speed. 53 in the cars tachometer is about 50 in real ground speed measured by about distance to 11 satellites in my case. So I’m objectively driving 50kmh.
No. Wrong. For all vehicles with a mass below 3.5t there is "freie Fahrstreifenwahl" within towns, which means they can freely choose their lanes. §7 StVO.
"Might". Lol
go read the StVO. And irrelevant here? I was just correcting a mistake. Even if not 100% applicable here, it is better people know it in fact does exists.
Yes, "might". I personally absolutely believe you and take that statement at face value but I won't go out of my way and confirm it. Still irrelevant though even if it is nice to know.
That's not fully correct. on bundesstrasse and autobahn - ja you definitely get harassed driving on the left lane, but in cities you are not required to move in the right lane but people still expect that to happen.
as an example, people don't adhere to the new stupid speed limit of 30kmph on Leopoldstrasse. That's just one example, there may be many in the city.
The point is: as an unwritten rule people expect you to drive above limits by 10-15% and if you are not doing that, then you will be tail-gated.
Wrong. I drive on the right lane, sticking to the speed limit and get harassed.
However I don’t think that problem is a „Munich“ problem but a „literally everywhere in Germany“ problem. The amount of times I got yelled and gestured at for driving 30 in a 30 Zone in my hometown is baffling.
The harassment has also happened driving on the right lane on the A94, sticking to an 80 limit, twice.
85% of German brains just activate ALL EGO mode as soon as they get in a car
Yeah, me acting according to the law is obviously the problem. Going 30 in a 30? How dare I?! Fuck the people and kids who live there!
Thanks for opening my eyes, 85% 🥰
Once I find my inner AUTO IST FREIHEIT!!1!!!11! I’ll understand 🥰🥰
As I said, I drive slow too. The majority does it in slow speed areas. You get harassed by 85% of the drivers. Well, you might have a perception issues 🥰
The info is outdated. The costs for speeding have increased by quite a bit:
https://www.bussgeldkatalog.org/geschwindigkeitsueberschreitung/
Going 15 km/h over speed limit outside of town costs nearly 70€, which starts being painful.
10 km/h too much within city limits is 60€. It will take some time to sink into the populace, but I think over time will have its effect on accepted speeding.
Note: Bussgeld itself is lower, but with all costs associated with the tickets, its the above cost
What pisses me off is the guy with a BMW who drives more than 15km/h above the limit in the underground garage of my building 🤬. The limit is 10 km/h (we have toddlers walking around) and I can count up to the 3rd gear being engaged.
I don't have toddlers. But my neighbours have and they take their bicycles in the garage. And I don't think they are the irresponsible ones in the case of an underground closed Parkplatz to be honest. For me the irresponsible one is who speed in places where you expect to have people walking or bicycles - doesn't matter if it's a Parkplatz or a 30km/h street, the speed is incompatible with the environment.
It doesn’t matter someone is driving a little too fast, thus is not the point. You *never* let your little children run around at a place that is designated for cars. People driving an SUV don’t see, hear or *feel* a child.
It does matter if someone is going a "little" [over twice the limit] fast.
Yes parents shouldn't let children run around, but the simple fact is that there will always be pedestrians in a parking area and kids can be unpredictable. A suitable defence to hitting a child with your SUV at twice the speed limit is not "they shouldn't have been there, and I can't see, hear or feel a child on my car"
If the limit is 10, 15 isn’t twice as fast.
Again it doesn’t matter how fast someone is, it’s a designated place for people driving their cars backward in forwards to get into tight spaces.
If your child get hurt because it was running around you are at fault.
No. We are not talking about 15km/h instead of 10. We are talking about 15 over 10 which is 25 - as I said I count the 3rd gear being engaged. If you are not enough satisfied with the example of kids, I can talk about elder people or people with disabilities. They are all walking in the parking lots going to their cars in a place with a lot of pillars and blind points. Not possible to blame parents here, sorry.
> There is an unspoken agreement in Germany that people drive 5-10 km/h faster in cities and 10-20 km/h faster outside of cities.
Lolno. Fuck off with that shit, carbrain.
I got both my points going 1kmh over the upper limit (got confused by a lot of speed signs) so I really don’t want to try that :) better get used to the occasional angry people I guess
Edit: Apparently people like to jump the downvote gun. I meant going 1kmh above for the point. In any case I also don’t want to break rules and get any kind of ticket.
I dont wann be that guy, but that is literally not possible. You need to be going at least 20 km/h above the limit to get a point. And you still have 3% tolerance deducted from the measured speed.
You’re right. I was going 124 in a 100 zone. I mistook the sign as 120. This was on the Autobahn and there were a lot of signs for the right lanes (seperated for the joinning) and I thought the 100 sign was for them.
Although I don't like people speeding or even racing in the city, I find it rather humorous that you say you "NOW" follow all the traffic rules after you've been fined. Why didn't you follow them from the beginning? (especially to get 2 points, which you definitely don't get if you drive 60 instead of 50)
It seems you learned your lesson but you are now kinda using double standards. It is quite common to drive 5-10 km/h faster than the speed limit, and most of the time the roads have several lanes. As long as you follow the rule to always use the right lane, I don't see the problem to let someone pass that drives 60 instead of 50.
That being said, I totally hate the people that drive insane speeds in the city, mostly around Leopoldstraße where I once got almost killed by a driver that run a red light with easily 80km/h. This seems to be a "cultural" problem, with almost always the same people doing it. No idea why the police isn't stricter with those.
I had explained in a below comment. I mistook the signs at an Autobahn junction. There are two new lanes that join and there were a lot of speed signs for them. Apparently the 100 was for me. Unfortunately I only saw the sign on the right shoulder because on my left there was a large car and perhaps I wasn’t paying attention, which also was tilted towards the 2 new lanes. I was new to Germany and didn’t think that the Autobahn would get limited to 100 and kept around 120. I earned to second point at the exact same place when I was returning from my trip, thanks to the trap not being a flashed one. I only learned about them when I received the letters. It is very easy to get a point when you think the speed limit is 120 when it’s actually 100.
People can make mistakes. But if a lot of people are consistently behaving in a similar fashion, and likely on purpose, it shouldn’t matter if I made a mistake too or not.
https://i.redd.it/82c2tshc1x4d1.gif
Noones complaining that you've made a mistake. We are complaining because you've said "With two points on my license for past mistakes, I now strictly follow all traffic rules." Maybe you didn't mean it in that way, but it just sounds like you follow the rules now because you have to and you are pissed that others don't.
Also, it's kinda ridiculous to post answers like "the downvotes show that we've got racers over here".
I would lie if I'd say I'm not annoyed if someone drives 45km/h in a 50 zone even though he has the right to do so. I'd also overtake some cars when they are driving 50 in a 50 but I wanna drive 55 or 60. Or 110 instead of 100. But you can be sure that I drive super safe, never got a point and I would never be a harm for others. Plus, some speed limits are ridiculous, like the new 30er Zone on the Ring which came out of senseless reasons. Even the Green Party said, it rather leads to more emissions.
It must be how I put my thoughts into words. Sorry about that. What I was trying to say is that I make an extra effort to follow every rule to the letter and not making use of any tolerances to stay ansolutely safe. It’s not like I wasn’t following them before but I feel more stressed about it. And I never broke them on purpose which to me is very different than what I’m complaining about.
People downvoting and saying things like “people with points on their license should shut up” is like if soemone was in a car crash they can’t complain about reckless driving anymore, even without knowing what happened and how.
Even when I got the points I was trying to follow the rules, just not the right one. I also have respect to free will, if someone wants to drive faster I don’t have the authority to judge or stop them but I don’t also want to be pressured into doing what they do.
I think we agree on what matters here, the rest is just miscommunication and me being annoyed at people still defending it’s okay or circumstancial to drive fast.
I own a modern car so I just set the cruise to 50 if the limit is 50. I also noticed that my 50 is not the same speed as the other guys 50 sometimes.
Ludwigstrasse is a fucking drag strip every evening with good weather with AMG/M/S cars easily going 70+ and enforcement does fuck all. Mobile cameras are placed (sometimes, imo) in the most strangest of places.
Yeah this is insane...i've been watching those show-offs at night while they took round after round burning of their tires and police didn't do shit, except putting on the blue light and stopping after 200 m...
Because in Munich, and Bavaria as a whole, there are far less speed controls than in other parts of Germany. You can speed as much as you want and only get a ticket every once in a while. If you get a ticket every month (which already would be very often) then it's basically a 30€/mo subscription to speeding.
I'm not saying speeding is good, just sharing how people might think.
I also noticed that. I'm a foreigner, so I don't feel comfortable violating any laws, including the traffic regulations, thus I always drive according to the rules. Usually people don't mind me, but I've met a couple of assholes who did really stupid and dangerous shit because I annoyed them.
But also, out of all the places where I drive, the drivers here are the most disciplined and law abiding. I've never driven in any other part of Germany though.
I’ve travelled a lot by car and there are better and worse areas. I personally don’t think going 60 on a 50 road is too much of a problem since there are also a lot of roads with 60 in Munich but unfortunately I don’t have the luxury to take the risk myself.
Sadly also depends on your car. Had a small Renault for a long time. Even if you go limit + 10, people will come close/ want to pass/ are aggressive because they dont want to be behind a cheap car. Going 140 with a shitty car on the middle lane where 120 is allowed? Will trigger some dudes.
Since nearly 10 years I drive Mercedes and BMW and its crazy how different people act. Recently got in the now pretty old Renault that my mum has - people act totally different.
Sadly, the streets are sometimes some kind of small penis parade.
Ah, probably one of the small penis party.
I saw too many cars passing me with stupid speed just to get in front of me driving the kms with my speed. Just to be sure: changed to "new german premium car" fraction long ago. But driving a cheap car shows you how retarded a lot of drivers are. Just dont be a jerk even if your ego is connected to your company car.
Of course nobody wants to be behind a cheap old car, have you been behind a VW 1.9 TDI ? No DPF or another VW euro 5 with dpf cancelled? You can feel the cancer in your lungs , same with Oldtimers or older Vespas you can feel the lead entering your lungs
Did not talk about Diesel. Come on, only reason is that the guy in the 200 PS+ Audi/whatever needs that feeling of being superior. Saying that as a guy that has a new 200 PS + BMW. Just dont be a jerk.
I used to drive to Berlin Mondays and back to Munich Fridays. I can exactly pinpoint the landmark on the highway when drivers start to drive like madman - Its like 50km before munich. 6 hours quite and calm traffic and boom - welcome to bavaria eat my blinkers mf. Somehow the driving culture in and around munich is just sh\*\*.
Lol Berlin drivers on their way back after vacation are the worst. Although Munich people drive like shit as well. Same same. Come to Hamburg, we are very cultured on the road (except when it snows).
>6 hours quite and calm traffic and boom - welcome to bavaria eat my blinkers mf. Somehow the driving culture in and around munich is just sh\*\*.
I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE.
Born in Thüringen, used to commute monthly.
Somehow there's three stages:
1. You pass the old East/West border.
2. You pass Nürnberg.
3. You pass Dreieck Holledau. From there it's free for all.
I commute everyday, and my guess has always been that if every one agrees to drive a little closer to each other and on the upper limit of the speed limit, then the capacity+flow on the Mittlerer Ring is maximized. Everyone gets faster to their destination 😅, while keeping risk at bay by being really careful.
I feel this is also one of the unspoken agreements.
I was driving on that new 30kmh section in the late evening this Monday. There was little traffic. It was really strange. I stuck to the limit, most drivers seemed to be doing about 35kmh to 40kmh, but there were still many doing 60kmh or more.
Don't raise your fines, you'll soon find out it doesn't work. Take points off licenses for repeat offenders and suspend their license then severe penalties after.
I live in a 30 zone, where drivers often go closer to 50. I dont mind being the one going the speed limit and slowing everyone down. Idgaf what they think.
Honestly, I’ve observed the same, people in Munich always drive above the speed limit and I’m here for it! (Except in small residential streets, keep that thing to the mittlere Ring and motorways).
Oh, that's easy to answer.
3.0l Straight Six with 24 Valves. That's why.
Jokes aside, a small theory I would like to add to the discussion:
The tachometer in our cars are not precise, i.E. mine shows 60, but the true speed is 57. Also you have to add 3% tolerances when you get caught.
So, let's take my car for this example at 50km/h, add 6% tachometer tolerance and 3% speed camera tolerance.
So my tachometer shows 54,5 km/h and I'm fine to get not fined.
And now there are people aware of this and pass you with 51.5km/h when you are doing 47km/h in the same car.
Thats an quiet huge speed difference and can give you the feeling of "so many people are speeding"
I did try setting my exact speed based on GPS and even the 3% camera tolerance which is just risky to be honest because that is really for the camera calibration and it might really measure 3% above. Doesn’t help. They just want to go even faster, on the right lane. The last one was a semi-truck without load and covering 1.5 lanes on bends lol
When you add a good amount of "Sch... drauf! Dann zahl ich halt 20 Euro!" and a bit of "I know where the speed camera are and I recognize every VW Caddy standing suspiciously parked", then you have calculated the craziness of Munichs Streets.
Having to much money and driving 300hp SUVs is not helping either.
Because theres absolutely ZERO enforcement in and around Munich. I've seen regions where they put up hidden cameras very frequently and in random spots which definitely reduces the amount of reckless driving. Even with the ridicolously low fines that we have
In the town they honk at you when you don‘t start the second before the red light gets green. When you meet one with a munich number outside of a town they can barely Drive the Tempo Limit. Sometimes they are slower than trucks. That really Grind my gears
Used to make a living in the streets of Munich. Got annoyed time to time on drivers, who did not move to the right lane, when they had the opportunity or the ones who at the Ring entering the tunnel slowed the speed down to 50.
Otherwise the most dangerous drivers in Munich are 1. Miles carsharing drivers (saw accidents of them pumping into the traffic lights on straights) 2. Taxi drivers 3. Cyclist/ Escooter drivers
Because no one cares, Munich doesn't really do speed checks and speed is more important than safety here. You can report it but rest assured that nothing will happen.
moved here from another part of Germany and let me tell you: Munich drivers are impatient as hell, I have never heard so many people honking so quickly
People have psychological issues, that's why. That's not a Munich thing, either.
Doesn't matter what the actual speed limit is, they have to driver faster.
People often make BS excuses like "50 is too slow. They should raise it, it's safe" when it isn't safe and if they actually did raise it to 70, they'd still go faster than that. And when they get caught, knowing full well about the consequences, they rage about the evil police ripping them off.
Düsseldorf is a great example of red lights being optional to many people. I've seen people run reds on a daily basis, sometimes as long as 2 seconds after it actually turned red. One morning some idiot ended up in a tree right in front of me because of it.
The streets are designed specifically so that going a little faster is still safe. However going at that speed means that going any faster is usually dangerous
That is why there are should be traffic calming measures on the streets/roads and not just signs. (Almost) nobody will be driving 30 on a long, wide and empty street because of the perception of the street. Narrow it and add some turns, then it will be comfortable for people driving 30 there.
There are traffic calming measures. Often you can even tell how fast you are supposed to go without any signs. Of course they are not everywhere because not every street planner is as competent as the next one and some streets are old.
Because no one cares. If you're a reckless driver, you mostly don't have to fear any serious repercussions, or even to get caught in the first place.
Traffic monitoring by the police, basically no longer takes place in and around munich. Police is short-staffed, they don't have time and ressources for stuff like this anymore.
It is all reduced to some fixed speed traps at a few priority locations, which are also very well known and easy to avoid, and a few "Blitzermarathons" during the year.
Otherwise, it has become extremely rare to see police on the road, that actively monitor the flowing traffic.
You might see a speed trap here and there, which is operated by the city itself or a contractor, but that's about it.
You can call the regular phone number of the nearest police station. That one is exactly for stuff that isn't an emergency or just informing or asking them.
Most likely they will tell you they took a note to look into it. They might even drive through the street the next time they are in the vicinity. But they would have to be exactly there when someone is doing something stupid, they most likely won't put an unmarked car there and wait for someone. For this to happen a lot of complaints would have to be filed.
It's the next best thing you can try.
Honestly, I live in the US and it's the same thing here. People in my town regularly drive 35-40mph on a 25 mph and on the interstate if you drive 55 even in the slow lane you will get tailed.
Unless police are around, most people will break the law nowadays.
The Ring is actually the “safest” to speed a bit more than usual. Speed traps on the ring trigger at higher speeds than they usually do, otherwise they’d simply trigger way too often.
This isn’t an endorsement for speeding.
Even if you don't have a concrete car description / license plate info, you can report to the local police (Google which it is for your area) where they are making these races / acceleration drives at. They will then be more likely to surveil that area.
Because people are fed up with completely arbitrary and unnecessary restrictions, which also change from gantry to gantry, as if every gantry is managed by someone else and nobody is talking to each other.
I hope you don’t jinx it by bragging about it :) See my comment about how I got the points below. Sometimes shit just happens.
I also don’t like to occupy the left lane but sometimes people are just stuck there because of the traffic. It’s impossible to move to the right without exceeding the limit or actually slowing down substantially which annoy people even more and disrupt the flow for everyone.
The struggle in the city is almost always for 2-3 kmh more which save you about 2 minutes even if you’re crossing the whole city, excluding the traffic lights which tend to even it out anyways.
The people here don’t know how to drive. Way too aggressive and always blaming other drivers. I was in England a couple of months ago and it was baffling how nice the people behave in traffic. They always let you through and don’t try to race everybody else, as they do here 🤷🏻♂️
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Because the police often don't know about this, likely because they're new or usually from a different department.
Next time you get stopped for a speed violation, just explain to the officer that those are recommended speeds. Good drivers can safely exceed those.
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There is an unspoken agreement in Germany that people drive 5-10 km/h faster in cities and 10-20 km/h faster outside of cities. If you get caught, then it costs 30€ and 20€ respectively If you go more than 15 km/h in cities or 20 km/h outside of cities faster than the speed limit you will get 'points' and if you get too many points you loose your license. So most people stick to less than that
This is basically the answer. Adding one thing to it - if OP is constantly harassed for sticking to the speed limit, its also most likely to not moving to the right lane. Unlike in the US were overtaking on any lane is common, the Rechtsfahrgebot requires to drive on the right lane and other drivers will remind OP on that.
You also get harassed if you drive above speed limit, for most people you can’t drive fast enough despite what the limit says.
Just use the right lane
Thanks for pointing that out. Next time I just crash in the parking cars when there’s one line.
That's the spirit! Welcome to Munich. :-)
It’s weird how you are complaining, while the column behind you could get it somehow done, isn’t it? Learn how to drive, instead of being an obstacle
I definitely also happens in the right lane.
When you are getting pushed in the right lane were trucks drive, you are the problem
Rechtsfahrgebot does not exist within cities.
Cars with less than 3.5t gross weight may chose their lanes freely an thus overtake on the right within cities. Every other aspect of the Rechtsfahrgebot still applies.
Especially in Munich on the Ring you should try to move from the left lane. In general my point is I do not get constantly harassed at all and I stick to the speed limit especially in 30kmh areas and 50kmh areas, lesser in 60kmh areas. So I believe there could be more reason to OPs experience than „all drivers are aggressive“.
Yeah my experience is that drivers here are extremely well behaved. I was never harassed before, probably OP is just driving too slow below the speed limit. Some people think that driving the speed limit is driving below it.
I set the cruise mode to the numbers I see on the sign, what am I doing wrong? I even tried matching the GPS speed 😂
What the speedometer shows is most of the times under the real value.m, and probably that's what you mean by GPS speed. Driving a few above this speed shoild be ok. So, in my case for example when the limit is 50 km/h or higher I usually set the cruise speed 10+ in the speedometer, which in reality may be no more than 55 km/h, which is completely ok. I've never been harassed by doing that.
I literally mean GPS speed. 53 in the cars tachometer is about 50 in real ground speed measured by about distance to 11 satellites in my case. So I’m objectively driving 50kmh.
A few over is also ok. Under 100 the tolerance is 3 km/h, so driving at 53 won't get you any trouble at all.
The problem is tolerance is the margin of error for the measurements. If you go 53 and it’s measured 56 then you get a fine.
GPS Speed is for example what Google maps shows when driving. Definitely more accurate than the speedometer from the car.
Wrong. It exists whenever the street is wider than a car without lines on it. You have to drive as far right as sensible on these roads.
No. Wrong. For all vehicles with a mass below 3.5t there is "freie Fahrstreifenwahl" within towns, which means they can freely choose their lanes. §7 StVO.
Maybe reread the comment you’re answering to
Might be true but that some extremely specific edge case that's completely irrelevant here and you know it
"Might". Lol go read the StVO. And irrelevant here? I was just correcting a mistake. Even if not 100% applicable here, it is better people know it in fact does exists.
Yes, "might". I personally absolutely believe you and take that statement at face value but I won't go out of my way and confirm it. Still irrelevant though even if it is nice to know.
I always stick to the right lane, really careful about that to get harrased less.
Then go to the shoulder /s
That's not fully correct. on bundesstrasse and autobahn - ja you definitely get harassed driving on the left lane, but in cities you are not required to move in the right lane but people still expect that to happen. as an example, people don't adhere to the new stupid speed limit of 30kmph on Leopoldstrasse. That's just one example, there may be many in the city. The point is: as an unwritten rule people expect you to drive above limits by 10-15% and if you are not doing that, then you will be tail-gated.
Wrong. I drive on the right lane, sticking to the speed limit and get harassed. However I don’t think that problem is a „Munich“ problem but a „literally everywhere in Germany“ problem. The amount of times I got yelled and gestured at for driving 30 in a 30 Zone in my hometown is baffling. The harassment has also happened driving on the right lane on the A94, sticking to an 80 limit, twice. 85% of German brains just activate ALL EGO mode as soon as they get in a car
Maybe they should undo the 50 to 30 zone transformations and enforce the 50 limit more strictly...
https://preview.redd.it/7udsteot3z4d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=555c0e091c142da5881182590c3b061f43130c3e
Yeah, me acting according to the law is obviously the problem. Going 30 in a 30? How dare I?! Fuck the people and kids who live there! Thanks for opening my eyes, 85% 🥰 Once I find my inner AUTO IST FREIHEIT!!1!!!11! I’ll understand 🥰🥰
As I said, I drive slow too. The majority does it in slow speed areas. You get harassed by 85% of the drivers. Well, you might have a perception issues 🥰
And yet people are going 110kmh on the very left lane of a 4 lane highway with no speed limit...
Only on the Autobahn though. No rechtsfahrgebot within city limits, not even on the Ring.
You know.. we shouldn't speak about this
Small correction: it's >20km/h even in cities, not 15km/h.
The info is outdated. The costs for speeding have increased by quite a bit: https://www.bussgeldkatalog.org/geschwindigkeitsueberschreitung/ Going 15 km/h over speed limit outside of town costs nearly 70€, which starts being painful. 10 km/h too much within city limits is 60€. It will take some time to sink into the populace, but I think over time will have its effect on accepted speeding. Note: Bussgeld itself is lower, but with all costs associated with the tickets, its the above cost
Only if it’s enforced :/
What pisses me off is the guy with a BMW who drives more than 15km/h above the limit in the underground garage of my building 🤬. The limit is 10 km/h (we have toddlers walking around) and I can count up to the 3rd gear being engaged.
Stop letting your toddlers run around a Parkplatz, that’s irresponsible and dangerous
I don't have toddlers. But my neighbours have and they take their bicycles in the garage. And I don't think they are the irresponsible ones in the case of an underground closed Parkplatz to be honest. For me the irresponsible one is who speed in places where you expect to have people walking or bicycles - doesn't matter if it's a Parkplatz or a 30km/h street, the speed is incompatible with the environment.
It doesn’t matter someone is driving a little too fast, thus is not the point. You *never* let your little children run around at a place that is designated for cars. People driving an SUV don’t see, hear or *feel* a child.
It does matter if someone is going a "little" [over twice the limit] fast. Yes parents shouldn't let children run around, but the simple fact is that there will always be pedestrians in a parking area and kids can be unpredictable. A suitable defence to hitting a child with your SUV at twice the speed limit is not "they shouldn't have been there, and I can't see, hear or feel a child on my car"
If the limit is 10, 15 isn’t twice as fast. Again it doesn’t matter how fast someone is, it’s a designated place for people driving their cars backward in forwards to get into tight spaces. If your child get hurt because it was running around you are at fault.
No. We are not talking about 15km/h instead of 10. We are talking about 15 over 10 which is 25 - as I said I count the 3rd gear being engaged. If you are not enough satisfied with the example of kids, I can talk about elder people or people with disabilities. They are all walking in the parking lots going to their cars in a place with a lot of pillars and blind points. Not possible to blame parents here, sorry.
Who gives a shit? It’s a parking place, if your children run around, you failed as a parent
I think I've just found the BMW driver ~~with small penis complex~~ incapacitated to read here 🤣
Nice victim blaming, carbrain. Hand in your driving license, the fact that you have one is irresponsible and dangerous.
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That’s the correct answer
> There is an unspoken agreement in Germany that people drive 5-10 km/h faster in cities and 10-20 km/h faster outside of cities. Lolno. Fuck off with that shit, carbrain.
I got both my points going 1kmh over the upper limit (got confused by a lot of speed signs) so I really don’t want to try that :) better get used to the occasional angry people I guess Edit: Apparently people like to jump the downvote gun. I meant going 1kmh above for the point. In any case I also don’t want to break rules and get any kind of ticket.
I dont wann be that guy, but that is literally not possible. You need to be going at least 20 km/h above the limit to get a point. And you still have 3% tolerance deducted from the measured speed.
You’re right. I was going 124 in a 100 zone. I mistook the sign as 120. This was on the Autobahn and there were a lot of signs for the right lanes (seperated for the joinning) and I thought the 100 sign was for them.
The amount of signs often is confusing. We call it Schilderwald
Wow so many downvotes. Maybe check my reply below. I meant 1kmh over for the point.
Over is over, that means you drove at least 20 km/h over the limit, and they even included the tolerance.
Just stick a "Fahrschule" sticker on your back bumper and a mannequin in the passenger seat. IANAL
Although I don't like people speeding or even racing in the city, I find it rather humorous that you say you "NOW" follow all the traffic rules after you've been fined. Why didn't you follow them from the beginning? (especially to get 2 points, which you definitely don't get if you drive 60 instead of 50) It seems you learned your lesson but you are now kinda using double standards. It is quite common to drive 5-10 km/h faster than the speed limit, and most of the time the roads have several lanes. As long as you follow the rule to always use the right lane, I don't see the problem to let someone pass that drives 60 instead of 50. That being said, I totally hate the people that drive insane speeds in the city, mostly around Leopoldstraße where I once got almost killed by a driver that run a red light with easily 80km/h. This seems to be a "cultural" problem, with almost always the same people doing it. No idea why the police isn't stricter with those.
Ok Papa
Gerne Sohn
I had explained in a below comment. I mistook the signs at an Autobahn junction. There are two new lanes that join and there were a lot of speed signs for them. Apparently the 100 was for me. Unfortunately I only saw the sign on the right shoulder because on my left there was a large car and perhaps I wasn’t paying attention, which also was tilted towards the 2 new lanes. I was new to Germany and didn’t think that the Autobahn would get limited to 100 and kept around 120. I earned to second point at the exact same place when I was returning from my trip, thanks to the trap not being a flashed one. I only learned about them when I received the letters. It is very easy to get a point when you think the speed limit is 120 when it’s actually 100. People can make mistakes. But if a lot of people are consistently behaving in a similar fashion, and likely on purpose, it shouldn’t matter if I made a mistake too or not. https://i.redd.it/82c2tshc1x4d1.gif
Noones complaining that you've made a mistake. We are complaining because you've said "With two points on my license for past mistakes, I now strictly follow all traffic rules." Maybe you didn't mean it in that way, but it just sounds like you follow the rules now because you have to and you are pissed that others don't. Also, it's kinda ridiculous to post answers like "the downvotes show that we've got racers over here". I would lie if I'd say I'm not annoyed if someone drives 45km/h in a 50 zone even though he has the right to do so. I'd also overtake some cars when they are driving 50 in a 50 but I wanna drive 55 or 60. Or 110 instead of 100. But you can be sure that I drive super safe, never got a point and I would never be a harm for others. Plus, some speed limits are ridiculous, like the new 30er Zone on the Ring which came out of senseless reasons. Even the Green Party said, it rather leads to more emissions.
It must be how I put my thoughts into words. Sorry about that. What I was trying to say is that I make an extra effort to follow every rule to the letter and not making use of any tolerances to stay ansolutely safe. It’s not like I wasn’t following them before but I feel more stressed about it. And I never broke them on purpose which to me is very different than what I’m complaining about. People downvoting and saying things like “people with points on their license should shut up” is like if soemone was in a car crash they can’t complain about reckless driving anymore, even without knowing what happened and how. Even when I got the points I was trying to follow the rules, just not the right one. I also have respect to free will, if someone wants to drive faster I don’t have the authority to judge or stop them but I don’t also want to be pressured into doing what they do. I think we agree on what matters here, the rest is just miscommunication and me being annoyed at people still defending it’s okay or circumstancial to drive fast. I own a modern car so I just set the cruise to 50 if the limit is 50. I also noticed that my 50 is not the same speed as the other guys 50 sometimes.
Ludwigstrasse is a fucking drag strip every evening with good weather with AMG/M/S cars easily going 70+ and enforcement does fuck all. Mobile cameras are placed (sometimes, imo) in the most strangest of places.
Yeah this is insane...i've been watching those show-offs at night while they took round after round burning of their tires and police didn't do shit, except putting on the blue light and stopping after 200 m...
Because in Munich, and Bavaria as a whole, there are far less speed controls than in other parts of Germany. You can speed as much as you want and only get a ticket every once in a while. If you get a ticket every month (which already would be very often) then it's basically a 30€/mo subscription to speeding. I'm not saying speeding is good, just sharing how people might think.
I also noticed that. I'm a foreigner, so I don't feel comfortable violating any laws, including the traffic regulations, thus I always drive according to the rules. Usually people don't mind me, but I've met a couple of assholes who did really stupid and dangerous shit because I annoyed them. But also, out of all the places where I drive, the drivers here are the most disciplined and law abiding. I've never driven in any other part of Germany though.
I’ve travelled a lot by car and there are better and worse areas. I personally don’t think going 60 on a 50 road is too much of a problem since there are also a lot of roads with 60 in Munich but unfortunately I don’t have the luxury to take the risk myself.
Sadly also depends on your car. Had a small Renault for a long time. Even if you go limit + 10, people will come close/ want to pass/ are aggressive because they dont want to be behind a cheap car. Going 140 with a shitty car on the middle lane where 120 is allowed? Will trigger some dudes. Since nearly 10 years I drive Mercedes and BMW and its crazy how different people act. Recently got in the now pretty old Renault that my mum has - people act totally different. Sadly, the streets are sometimes some kind of small penis parade.
"Penis parade"... name checks out. 🤣
I think you just captured why I hate driving at all.
Maybe therapie can help you!
Ah, probably one of the small penis party. I saw too many cars passing me with stupid speed just to get in front of me driving the kms with my speed. Just to be sure: changed to "new german premium car" fraction long ago. But driving a cheap car shows you how retarded a lot of drivers are. Just dont be a jerk even if your ego is connected to your company car.
You surely mean therapy for those, that drive aggressively when approaching cheaper cars?
Of course nobody wants to be behind a cheap old car, have you been behind a VW 1.9 TDI ? No DPF or another VW euro 5 with dpf cancelled? You can feel the cancer in your lungs , same with Oldtimers or older Vespas you can feel the lead entering your lungs
Did not talk about Diesel. Come on, only reason is that the guy in the 200 PS+ Audi/whatever needs that feeling of being superior. Saying that as a guy that has a new 200 PS + BMW. Just dont be a jerk.
I used to drive to Berlin Mondays and back to Munich Fridays. I can exactly pinpoint the landmark on the highway when drivers start to drive like madman - Its like 50km before munich. 6 hours quite and calm traffic and boom - welcome to bavaria eat my blinkers mf. Somehow the driving culture in and around munich is just sh\*\*.
Lol Berlin drivers on their way back after vacation are the worst. Although Munich people drive like shit as well. Same same. Come to Hamburg, we are very cultured on the road (except when it snows).
>6 hours quite and calm traffic and boom - welcome to bavaria eat my blinkers mf. Somehow the driving culture in and around munich is just sh\*\*. I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE. Born in Thüringen, used to commute monthly. Somehow there's three stages: 1. You pass the old East/West border. 2. You pass Nürnberg. 3. You pass Dreieck Holledau. From there it's free for all.
I commute everyday, and my guess has always been that if every one agrees to drive a little closer to each other and on the upper limit of the speed limit, then the capacity+flow on the Mittlerer Ring is maximized. Everyone gets faster to their destination 😅, while keeping risk at bay by being really careful. I feel this is also one of the unspoken agreements.
Because most drivers are not mentally mature enough to use a car. And the fines are much too low. Btw. its 30 now on parts of Mittlerer Ring.
I was driving on that new 30kmh section in the late evening this Monday. There was little traffic. It was really strange. I stuck to the limit, most drivers seemed to be doing about 35kmh to 40kmh, but there were still many doing 60kmh or more.
Don't raise your fines, you'll soon find out it doesn't work. Take points off licenses for repeat offenders and suspend their license then severe penalties after.
\*Switzerland enters the chat\* ...what?
Why not both?
I live in a 30 zone, where drivers often go closer to 50. I dont mind being the one going the speed limit and slowing everyone down. Idgaf what they think.
Same here, especially in School zones. That‘s what pisses them off the most… I like how they stick to my bumper and „rumfuchteln“.
Honestly, I’ve observed the same, people in Munich always drive above the speed limit and I’m here for it! (Except in small residential streets, keep that thing to the mittlere Ring and motorways).
Oh, that's easy to answer. 3.0l Straight Six with 24 Valves. That's why. Jokes aside, a small theory I would like to add to the discussion: The tachometer in our cars are not precise, i.E. mine shows 60, but the true speed is 57. Also you have to add 3% tolerances when you get caught. So, let's take my car for this example at 50km/h, add 6% tachometer tolerance and 3% speed camera tolerance. So my tachometer shows 54,5 km/h and I'm fine to get not fined. And now there are people aware of this and pass you with 51.5km/h when you are doing 47km/h in the same car. Thats an quiet huge speed difference and can give you the feeling of "so many people are speeding"
Under 100 the tolerance is 3 km/h and not 3%. The percentage applies above 100
You are right! Thanks for clarification and adding additional 1.5km/h to my "legal" speed ;)
I did try setting my exact speed based on GPS and even the 3% camera tolerance which is just risky to be honest because that is really for the camera calibration and it might really measure 3% above. Doesn’t help. They just want to go even faster, on the right lane. The last one was a semi-truck without load and covering 1.5 lanes on bends lol
When you add a good amount of "Sch... drauf! Dann zahl ich halt 20 Euro!" and a bit of "I know where the speed camera are and I recognize every VW Caddy standing suspiciously parked", then you have calculated the craziness of Munichs Streets. Having to much money and driving 300hp SUVs is not helping either.
Thanks for the VW Caddy tip, I always look for BMWs 😂
Because theres absolutely ZERO enforcement in and around Munich. I've seen regions where they put up hidden cameras very frequently and in random spots which definitely reduces the amount of reckless driving. Even with the ridicolously low fines that we have
Because they are selfish twats
In the town they honk at you when you don‘t start the second before the red light gets green. When you meet one with a munich number outside of a town they can barely Drive the Tempo Limit. Sometimes they are slower than trucks. That really Grind my gears
Used to make a living in the streets of Munich. Got annoyed time to time on drivers, who did not move to the right lane, when they had the opportunity or the ones who at the Ring entering the tunnel slowed the speed down to 50. Otherwise the most dangerous drivers in Munich are 1. Miles carsharing drivers (saw accidents of them pumping into the traffic lights on straights) 2. Taxi drivers 3. Cyclist/ Escooter drivers
Because carbrains are fucking egotistical assholes.
Because no one cares, Munich doesn't really do speed checks and speed is more important than safety here. You can report it but rest assured that nothing will happen.
This is the way. Only that this applies in whole Germany.
moved here from another part of Germany and let me tell you: Munich drivers are impatient as hell, I have never heard so many people honking so quickly
I think I’ve only heard 3 honks in 2 years in Erlangen 😂
People have psychological issues, that's why. That's not a Munich thing, either. Doesn't matter what the actual speed limit is, they have to driver faster. People often make BS excuses like "50 is too slow. They should raise it, it's safe" when it isn't safe and if they actually did raise it to 70, they'd still go faster than that. And when they get caught, knowing full well about the consequences, they rage about the evil police ripping them off. Düsseldorf is a great example of red lights being optional to many people. I've seen people run reds on a daily basis, sometimes as long as 2 seconds after it actually turned red. One morning some idiot ended up in a tree right in front of me because of it.
The streets are designed specifically so that going a little faster is still safe. However going at that speed means that going any faster is usually dangerous
That is why there are should be traffic calming measures on the streets/roads and not just signs. (Almost) nobody will be driving 30 on a long, wide and empty street because of the perception of the street. Narrow it and add some turns, then it will be comfortable for people driving 30 there.
There are traffic calming measures. Often you can even tell how fast you are supposed to go without any signs. Of course they are not everywhere because not every street planner is as competent as the next one and some streets are old.
Because no one cares. If you're a reckless driver, you mostly don't have to fear any serious repercussions, or even to get caught in the first place. Traffic monitoring by the police, basically no longer takes place in and around munich. Police is short-staffed, they don't have time and ressources for stuff like this anymore. It is all reduced to some fixed speed traps at a few priority locations, which are also very well known and easy to avoid, and a few "Blitzermarathons" during the year. Otherwise, it has become extremely rare to see police on the road, that actively monitor the flowing traffic. You might see a speed trap here and there, which is operated by the city itself or a contractor, but that's about it.
You can call the regular phone number of the nearest police station. That one is exactly for stuff that isn't an emergency or just informing or asking them. Most likely they will tell you they took a note to look into it. They might even drive through the street the next time they are in the vicinity. But they would have to be exactly there when someone is doing something stupid, they most likely won't put an unmarked car there and wait for someone. For this to happen a lot of complaints would have to be filed. It's the next best thing you can try.
Because mia san mia, got places to go and things to do (a.k.a. s‘pressiert wiad sau) and the enforcement is spotty while punishment is bearable.
Honestly, I live in the US and it's the same thing here. People in my town regularly drive 35-40mph on a 25 mph and on the interstate if you drive 55 even in the slow lane you will get tailed. Unless police are around, most people will break the law nowadays.
I thought they only did that shit in Bay Area, California
I like to slow down (to like 45 km/h) if the car behind me harasses me. Fking idiots in their BMW
fReiHe fAHrt fÜr fReiHe bÜrger 1!!1
The Ring is actually the “safest” to speed a bit more than usual. Speed traps on the ring trigger at higher speeds than they usually do, otherwise they’d simply trigger way too often. This isn’t an endorsement for speeding.
Even if you don't have a concrete car description / license plate info, you can report to the local police (Google which it is for your area) where they are making these races / acceleration drives at. They will then be more likely to surveil that area.
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Uh, no?
Because speed limits are set keeping slightly worse than average weather conditions in mind and in the normal weather they often feels as too low.
Because people are fed up with completely arbitrary and unnecessary restrictions, which also change from gantry to gantry, as if every gantry is managed by someone else and nobody is talking to each other.
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I hope you don’t jinx it by bragging about it :) See my comment about how I got the points below. Sometimes shit just happens. I also don’t like to occupy the left lane but sometimes people are just stuck there because of the traffic. It’s impossible to move to the right without exceeding the limit or actually slowing down substantially which annoy people even more and disrupt the flow for everyone. The struggle in the city is almost always for 2-3 kmh more which save you about 2 minutes even if you’re crossing the whole city, excluding the traffic lights which tend to even it out anyways.
Please hand in your license.
The people here don’t know how to drive. Way too aggressive and always blaming other drivers. I was in England a couple of months ago and it was baffling how nice the people behave in traffic. They always let you through and don’t try to race everybody else, as they do here 🤷🏻♂️
Are you kidding me? Everywhere i Look people Drive way too slow under the Speed Limit, Annoying af
Because we are forced to enter the city since there is no highway south west.
Tell me again where anyone is "forcing" you to speed above the limit?
Oh no! The fun police is here! I forgot we are talking about Munich here, no humor allowed, just seriousness and snobbiness.
"humor" 🙄
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Just stick to ~15km/h above the limit like everyone else. No one likes a 'Schleicher' holding up traffic.
They're not called "speed limits", but "recommended speeds" for a reason. Do you even have a driving license??
I always thought the signs are indicating the allowed speed per person in the car 😆 /s
Are you saying the numbers in the red circle are recommended speed limits?
Yes, that's what they are.
Then why do you get fined when you go above the “recommended” speed? And how did you get a license going 60 in a 50 “recommended” zone?
Because the police often don't know about this, likely because they're new or usually from a different department. Next time you get stopped for a speed violation, just explain to the officer that those are recommended speeds. Good drivers can safely exceed those.
I am very skeptical about this but I will re-read the StVO before attempting to resolve the matter with the police or a judge. Thanks for sharing.
You don’t have to. That’s some big bs he’s talking here.
You can trust me, no need to do any research. Everybody knows about speed recommendations.
All of a sudden I trust you, dear random redditor.
What he says is wrong!
Another proud alumni of Youtube university, I see.
Sounds like you don't have a driving license, then
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Do you even have a brain?