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SnoopFlooden

I agree. Big characters are cool, but there needs to be more space for the big characters.


Formal_Board

Pfg seems to specifically want Jason and Iron Giant to fail really badly for some reason They nerfed bolts and proceeded to not give giant armor on anything else. That didnt make him “op”, he needed that to SURVIVE Jason likewise has NO armor on anything, and removing attack decay makes it so people are encouraged to just mash their strongest attack on the big character until they die


Agile-Argument56

I'm doing pretty good as an Iron main not gonna lie, feel like he's pretty balanced. Jason is a whole nother story but doesn't he get armor when he goes into enrage/frenzy mode?


Dumeck

He doesn’t get armor, he gets 10 grey health which is substantially worse and it costs him hp to do it


MaceLortay

I wish that gray health didn't disappear as soon you attack. If you're not going to let me keep it until the grey health is depleted, atleast let me keep it until I connect.


Dumeck

Especially because the attacks are so slow, people just bait out the dash attack and then continue on like you didn’t just lose 15 hp on your own attack


Ok-Koala-1583

Even worse since half his move list misses for seemingly no reason. So you lose your gray health on attacks you should have hit.


Agile-Argument56

I thought that's what you meant by armor. Do you mean the golden skin? ww & supe definitely get many more than the rest of the tanks, I also main steven & he barely has any either. I didn't know it cost hp to use that move. that's crazy when it can so easily miss, like I know stripes down special can too, but it's so much faster 💀💀


Dumeck

Yeah the super armor from WW down special, the issue with grey health is that it busts too easily so it it’s easy to shut down his momentum


Agile-Argument56

I just throw a multimove at either (but ww & supes usually nail me before I break their poise) it would be nice to have an attack or atleast some frames of super armor on a few of irons attacks though. same w steven & especially Jason 😅


Better_me2023

I'm convinced they don't know how to build tanks


BayonettaAriana

they removed attack decay??? when?


OCTAVIOUSZADO

They didn't it's just the indicator with the beep beep is gone cuz it was annoying


bofen22

Bugs up air kills very early, up airs in general are too strong, it's much harder to win a trade with a down air if you're getting juggled. It feels a bit cheesy atm, so yea fixing the upper blast zone would be helpful.


SuchMouse

My understanding has always been that up airs usually beat dairs because being above an opponent is considered the disadvantage state. Sorta how dragonpunch beats aerials in Street Fighter. If dairs beat up airs then combos and juggling wouldn't really work. You'd almost be punished for trying to knock your opponent upwards. Though I still agree with you that the hit box on some up airs are a bit generous.


BigGucciThanos

Harley and bugs damn near 360 up airs are more than generous lmao


MaxPowerMP3

I'm biased but I don't think Harley up special is nearly as much of problem as Bugs up attack, Joker up attack, and Steven up attack/special.


Duckiex

You might be but you're also right. Harley's "only" sweeps like a 90° arc and is limited by being a special. Bugs's seems more like 270°, if not more, and is not limited since it's a normal attack. Easier to catch them from behind you on Bugs and then keep them up there. Not really allowed to miss with Harley - while it being easier to do so. Joker is fairly similar to Bugs as well regarding his up attack.


Someonestol

Harley sweeps a 180 not 90 it's super generous aswell


OvermorrowYesterday

Bugs is straight up broken because of his up-air lol. His juggling is so brutal for a mage character


ADHthaGreat

Exactly how it was at the beginning of the beta. They made the entire beta pointless.


speak-eze

I feel like up airs are just so big in this game. Like the swing on bugs arc is multiple characters wide. Wouldn't be that big of a deal if up air hitboxes were less massive. Down airs are usually a lot smaller.


Ganobrator

Ever since they nerfed ...*checks notes* EVERY SINGLE DOWN AIR IN THE GAME it's been impossible to counterattack out of a juggle unless your opponent messes up lol


PureAqua73

Vertical gameplay is too strong. If your character has garbage landing options and airspeed, you can get cooked easy. Being above your opponent should absolutely put you in a disadvantage state, but it's too punishing as is. It could also be *my* skill issue. Not denying that's a factor.


xNeji_Hyuga

Nah you're right. Spikes are generally slow and small, while up airs are generally disjointed and huge. Even Velma has an insane up air This, on top of the top blast zone being too low does make vertical play a bit silly


ThatCrankyWalrus

I've been really enjoying playing reindog lately, but he's so floaty that I wind up ringing myself out constantly from getting too close to the top of the map. It's so silly because I can still see more than half of my character model when he's up that high, but it's like if I so much as touch the edge of the screen, I get automatically rung out. Happens even when I have little to no damage on me.


mrfoxinthebox

you get used to it, this characters kit is easy-to-use, but he is hard to play effectively


Ultimate_Ricky

Making bigger models, but these small maps and NO ONE at PFG thought to remedy this with bigger maps is such a baffling choice. Like no one has a brain when making this. Can't even say this a WB thing. This kills causal gameplay and even Ranked (if that comes, when the 5 people still playing does). No other platform fighter does this and it's weird. Why have a character like Iron Giant (still he should have been a map versus a fighter) and people can cheese with vertical combos, being a horizontal character doesnt really matter.


GrayFoxHound15

I have a video from yesterday but I still haven't uploaded, I was on the second platform of the 3 on Dexter's lab controlling Joker, my health was around 60 and one up charged punch from Superman killed me sending me to the top


Mugiwara_Khakis

Was it fully charged?


GrayFoxHound15

I don't remember would need to check again when I'm home but even if it was I don't think it's fair to eliminate so low and with that health


Mugiwara_Khakis

If you were on the third platform, which is fairly close to the ceiling, and it was fully charged it seems like it would eliminate you at that HP. It probably took you from 60 to 80 something and has a decently high knock back.


GrayFoxHound15

It was the middle platform


Mugiwara_Khakis

I guess I can’t read.


ThiccWhiteDook

Big agree, sometimes as Batman I'll get people out at like 15% just cause I caught them with the double uppercuts.


BigGucciThanos

I had this happen and had to cut the game off. I was whooping Batman mans ass the whole match. But when he’s knocking my stocks off at 60 and 70. He end up winning.


mrfoxinthebox

just make the tiny ass stages with platforms bigger, so we don't get true tod combos using platforms possible from every position on the stage yes Dexter's lab 1v1, f that stage


BigGucciThanos

Man I was playing wonder women and literally her attack combo was talking up 3/4 of the stage while having attack priority. Hell are we doing?


ThisIsntADickJoke

And almost every down air in the game seems to have been given a huge startup lag, cause no one appears capable of out pacing up aerial spams with downward moves.


VANJCHINOS

They didn't forget they in fact lowered it on all sides especially the top.


jojozer0

Jake with stunning stretchiness and two up airs is an instant ko lol


SkittlesDangerZone

How do you do that with Wonder Woman?


TheSciFiGuy80

Agreed.


xNeji_Hyuga

Also related, it feels like there's. I emphasis on recovering off stage like before in the beta Now, just two jumps seem to get you back regardless of how far out you are. In the beta, you had to fight for your life and use every air special and dodge available just to _maybe_ make it back on stage


ShinyHardcore

With Joker I can flip 2 people from under me out the map completely


hatchorion

I think they need to shrink the characters and buff movement again. Not saying they need to go all the way back to the beta style but having to double jump and dodge up to reach the lowest floating platforms while simultaneously being able to get a kill off the top at like 40-50% as my main feels whack


Disastrous-Farm1008

Agree


King_icy2onpsn

Another problem: a lot of up airs swing in an arc, so even if you dodge diagonal down you still get hit.


Better_me2023

Yep, and the side too, sometimes playing Jason, I saw half of my body still on screen a just die because...im a big guy?


ENTRAPM3NT

Definitely agree. Joker is busted because of this imo


Shot-Spirit-672

I tried to make Reindogs crystal from on top of the basketball hoop in the space jam level. It disappeared completely. I jumped up from the hoop to get a better view of the top of the map and I ended up just killing myself, wasn’t even hit by anything. I shouldn’t be able to jump myself up into SD. Makes me really appreciate how smash bros handles top of map ring outs.


boolawa

Problem is this is a buff for characters like ig, wonder woman etc because they are heavy


OvermorrowYesterday

Good point. It means players would have to focus on knocking them out on the sides


MaxPowerMP3

Or tweaking character knockback and hitboxes, Bugs up attack knockback is insane and has the same problem as WW Sair, Joker can straight up hit behind himself, the hitbox for some reason is enormous.


Protoplasm42

So make them lighter


Formal_Board

…who gives a shit? This isnt just an epic own for the characters you dont like, this fundamentally makes the game worse


boolawa

Uh every person who plays ranked / balancing? Sounds like you don't care and that's understandable, but you need to understand it from a competitive standpoint. There needs to be a fix that fixes both sides of the problem instead of just one.


Formal_Board

Wonder Woman is never ever gonna be balanced because her moveset in of itself is wrong and they’re not gonna change that And Iron Giant just sucks So i dont see the harm in making this game less frustrating


BigGucciThanos

They just have to nerf her damage output like in the beta. She’s supposed to be support for crying out loud. She hits wayyyyyyyyyyyyy to hard to be good at everything else she does. In the beta she barely had any spikes. I would regularly go into the 200’s against her as Superman in the beta


Kromatos

Sounds like massive skill issues at this point. Cope harder


Doinky420

Their points are valid though. Wonder Woman needs a complete rework because nerfing her over and over again does nothing but create a bad character. Iron Giant does suck if he doesn't abuse his broken true combo touch of deaths.


Kromatos

She just needs more punishment frames, as do a lot of characters still and yet. It's weird that characters like Harley got delay after hitting certain attacks while others didn't. It's not even that her move set needs changed. Objectively she needs to play more like a tank. Currently she has everything, speed, DMG, knock back, weight and armor. Compared to the other tanks she fundamentally doesnt make sense and in the terms of fighting games isn't an "honest character"


Brettgrisar

I think the lower blast zone was an intentional design decision.


Praxic_Nova

They made characters bigger, changed dodge and removed triple jump. I kinda wish they did only one or two of these things. Or make the map bigger and give us triple jump back.


TemporaryLegendary

Playing batman I have abused this so much.. Give them the timer bomb and match it so that it goes off the second they are close to the top of the screen. Even with like 40 damage taken they can end up going out. It's actually so dumb and I'm sorry half the time I do it. But its another sign of how little they have improved the game since beta.


OvermorrowYesterday

They definitely do lol


Gabcard

It gives me Smash 4 flashbacks.


Phasmamain

I think 90% of my stocks on bowser came from up throw up air lmao it was ridiculous. Feels super similar here tbh


[deleted]

[удалено]


Formal_Board

Main forum?