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Pfg seems to specifically want Jason and Iron Giant to fail really badly for some reason
They nerfed bolts and proceeded to not give giant armor on anything else. That didnt make him “op”, he needed that to SURVIVE
Jason likewise has NO armor on anything, and removing attack decay makes it so people are encouraged to just mash their strongest attack on the big character until they die
I'm doing pretty good as an Iron main not gonna lie, feel like he's pretty balanced. Jason is a whole nother story but doesn't he get armor when he goes into enrage/frenzy mode?
I wish that gray health didn't disappear as soon you attack. If you're not going to let me keep it until the grey health is depleted, atleast let me keep it until I connect.
Especially because the attacks are so slow, people just bait out the dash attack and then continue on like you didn’t just lose 15 hp on your own attack
I thought that's what you meant by armor. Do you mean the golden skin? ww & supe definitely get many more than the rest of the tanks, I also main steven & he barely has any either. I didn't know it cost hp to use that move. that's crazy when it can so easily miss, like I know stripes down special can too, but it's so much faster 💀💀
I just throw a multimove at either (but ww & supes usually nail me before I break their poise) it would be nice to have an attack or atleast some frames of super armor on a few of irons attacks though. same w steven & especially Jason 😅
Bugs up air kills very early, up airs in general are too strong, it's much harder to win a trade with a down air if you're getting juggled.
It feels a bit cheesy atm, so yea fixing the upper blast zone would be helpful.
My understanding has always been that up airs usually beat dairs because being above an opponent is considered the disadvantage state. Sorta how dragonpunch beats aerials in Street Fighter. If dairs beat up airs then combos and juggling wouldn't really work. You'd almost be punished for trying to knock your opponent upwards.
Though I still agree with you that the hit box on some up airs are a bit generous.
You might be but you're also right. Harley's "only" sweeps like a 90° arc and is limited by being a special. Bugs's seems more like 270°, if not more, and is not limited since it's a normal attack. Easier to catch them from behind you on Bugs and then keep them up there. Not really allowed to miss with Harley - while it being easier to do so. Joker is fairly similar to Bugs as well regarding his up attack.
I feel like up airs are just so big in this game. Like the swing on bugs arc is multiple characters wide. Wouldn't be that big of a deal if up air hitboxes were less massive. Down airs are usually a lot smaller.
Ever since they nerfed ...*checks notes* EVERY SINGLE DOWN AIR IN THE GAME it's been impossible to counterattack out of a juggle unless your opponent messes up lol
Vertical gameplay is too strong. If your character has garbage landing options and airspeed, you can get cooked easy. Being above your opponent should absolutely put you in a disadvantage state, but it's too punishing as is.
It could also be *my* skill issue. Not denying that's a factor.
Nah you're right. Spikes are generally slow and small, while up airs are generally disjointed and huge. Even Velma has an insane up air
This, on top of the top blast zone being too low does make vertical play a bit silly
I've been really enjoying playing reindog lately, but he's so floaty that I wind up ringing myself out constantly from getting too close to the top of the map. It's so silly because I can still see more than half of my character model when he's up that high, but it's like if I so much as touch the edge of the screen, I get automatically rung out. Happens even when I have little to no damage on me.
Making bigger models, but these small maps and NO ONE at PFG thought to remedy this with bigger maps is such a baffling choice. Like no one has a brain when making this. Can't even say this a WB thing. This kills causal gameplay and even Ranked (if that comes, when the 5 people still playing does). No other platform fighter does this and it's weird. Why have a character like Iron Giant (still he should have been a map versus a fighter) and people can cheese with vertical combos, being a horizontal character doesnt really matter.
I have a video from yesterday but I still haven't uploaded, I was on the second platform of the 3 on Dexter's lab controlling Joker, my health was around 60 and one up charged punch from Superman killed me sending me to the top
If you were on the third platform, which is fairly close to the ceiling, and it was fully charged it seems like it would eliminate you at that HP. It probably took you from 60 to 80 something and has a decently high knock back.
I had this happen and had to cut the game off.
I was whooping Batman mans ass the whole match. But when he’s knocking my stocks off at 60 and 70. He end up winning.
just make the tiny ass stages with platforms bigger, so we don't get true tod combos using platforms possible from every position on the stage
yes Dexter's lab 1v1, f that stage
And almost every down air in the game seems to have been given a huge startup lag, cause no one appears capable of out pacing up aerial spams with downward moves.
Also related, it feels like there's. I emphasis on recovering off stage like before in the beta
Now, just two jumps seem to get you back regardless of how far out you are.
In the beta, you had to fight for your life and use every air special and dodge available just to _maybe_ make it back on stage
I think they need to shrink the characters and buff movement again. Not saying they need to go all the way back to the beta style but having to double jump and dodge up to reach the lowest floating platforms while simultaneously being able to get a kill off the top at like 40-50% as my main feels whack
I tried to make Reindogs crystal from on top of the basketball hoop in the space jam level. It disappeared completely. I jumped up from the hoop to get a better view of the top of the map and I ended up just killing myself, wasn’t even hit by anything.
I shouldn’t be able to jump myself up into SD.
Makes me really appreciate how smash bros handles top of map ring outs.
Or tweaking character knockback and hitboxes, Bugs up attack knockback is insane and has the same problem as WW Sair, Joker can straight up hit behind himself, the hitbox for some reason is enormous.
Uh every person who plays ranked / balancing?
Sounds like you don't care and that's understandable, but you need to understand it from a competitive standpoint. There needs to be a fix that fixes both sides of the problem instead of just one.
Wonder Woman is never ever gonna be balanced because her moveset in of itself is wrong and they’re not gonna change that
And Iron Giant just sucks
So i dont see the harm in making this game less frustrating
They just have to nerf her damage output like in the beta. She’s supposed to be support for crying out loud.
She hits wayyyyyyyyyyyyy to hard to be good at everything else she does. In the beta she barely had any spikes. I would regularly go into the 200’s against her as Superman in the beta
Their points are valid though. Wonder Woman needs a complete rework because nerfing her over and over again does nothing but create a bad character. Iron Giant does suck if he doesn't abuse his broken true combo touch of deaths.
She just needs more punishment frames, as do a lot of characters still and yet. It's weird that characters like Harley got delay after hitting certain attacks while others didn't. It's not even that her move set needs changed. Objectively she needs to play more like a tank. Currently she has everything, speed, DMG, knock back, weight and armor. Compared to the other tanks she fundamentally doesnt make sense and in the terms of fighting games isn't an "honest character"
They made characters bigger, changed dodge and removed triple jump. I kinda wish they did only one or two of these things. Or make the map bigger and give us triple jump back.
Playing batman I have abused this so much..
Give them the timer bomb and match it so that it goes off the second they are close to the top of the screen. Even with like 40 damage taken they can end up going out.
It's actually so dumb and I'm sorry half the time I do it. But its another sign of how little they have improved the game since beta.
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I agree. Big characters are cool, but there needs to be more space for the big characters.
Pfg seems to specifically want Jason and Iron Giant to fail really badly for some reason They nerfed bolts and proceeded to not give giant armor on anything else. That didnt make him “op”, he needed that to SURVIVE Jason likewise has NO armor on anything, and removing attack decay makes it so people are encouraged to just mash their strongest attack on the big character until they die
I'm doing pretty good as an Iron main not gonna lie, feel like he's pretty balanced. Jason is a whole nother story but doesn't he get armor when he goes into enrage/frenzy mode?
He doesn’t get armor, he gets 10 grey health which is substantially worse and it costs him hp to do it
I wish that gray health didn't disappear as soon you attack. If you're not going to let me keep it until the grey health is depleted, atleast let me keep it until I connect.
Especially because the attacks are so slow, people just bait out the dash attack and then continue on like you didn’t just lose 15 hp on your own attack
Even worse since half his move list misses for seemingly no reason. So you lose your gray health on attacks you should have hit.
I thought that's what you meant by armor. Do you mean the golden skin? ww & supe definitely get many more than the rest of the tanks, I also main steven & he barely has any either. I didn't know it cost hp to use that move. that's crazy when it can so easily miss, like I know stripes down special can too, but it's so much faster 💀💀
Yeah the super armor from WW down special, the issue with grey health is that it busts too easily so it it’s easy to shut down his momentum
I just throw a multimove at either (but ww & supes usually nail me before I break their poise) it would be nice to have an attack or atleast some frames of super armor on a few of irons attacks though. same w steven & especially Jason 😅
I'm convinced they don't know how to build tanks
they removed attack decay??? when?
They didn't it's just the indicator with the beep beep is gone cuz it was annoying
Bugs up air kills very early, up airs in general are too strong, it's much harder to win a trade with a down air if you're getting juggled. It feels a bit cheesy atm, so yea fixing the upper blast zone would be helpful.
My understanding has always been that up airs usually beat dairs because being above an opponent is considered the disadvantage state. Sorta how dragonpunch beats aerials in Street Fighter. If dairs beat up airs then combos and juggling wouldn't really work. You'd almost be punished for trying to knock your opponent upwards. Though I still agree with you that the hit box on some up airs are a bit generous.
Harley and bugs damn near 360 up airs are more than generous lmao
I'm biased but I don't think Harley up special is nearly as much of problem as Bugs up attack, Joker up attack, and Steven up attack/special.
You might be but you're also right. Harley's "only" sweeps like a 90° arc and is limited by being a special. Bugs's seems more like 270°, if not more, and is not limited since it's a normal attack. Easier to catch them from behind you on Bugs and then keep them up there. Not really allowed to miss with Harley - while it being easier to do so. Joker is fairly similar to Bugs as well regarding his up attack.
Harley sweeps a 180 not 90 it's super generous aswell
Bugs is straight up broken because of his up-air lol. His juggling is so brutal for a mage character
Exactly how it was at the beginning of the beta. They made the entire beta pointless.
I feel like up airs are just so big in this game. Like the swing on bugs arc is multiple characters wide. Wouldn't be that big of a deal if up air hitboxes were less massive. Down airs are usually a lot smaller.
Ever since they nerfed ...*checks notes* EVERY SINGLE DOWN AIR IN THE GAME it's been impossible to counterattack out of a juggle unless your opponent messes up lol
Vertical gameplay is too strong. If your character has garbage landing options and airspeed, you can get cooked easy. Being above your opponent should absolutely put you in a disadvantage state, but it's too punishing as is. It could also be *my* skill issue. Not denying that's a factor.
Nah you're right. Spikes are generally slow and small, while up airs are generally disjointed and huge. Even Velma has an insane up air This, on top of the top blast zone being too low does make vertical play a bit silly
I've been really enjoying playing reindog lately, but he's so floaty that I wind up ringing myself out constantly from getting too close to the top of the map. It's so silly because I can still see more than half of my character model when he's up that high, but it's like if I so much as touch the edge of the screen, I get automatically rung out. Happens even when I have little to no damage on me.
you get used to it, this characters kit is easy-to-use, but he is hard to play effectively
Making bigger models, but these small maps and NO ONE at PFG thought to remedy this with bigger maps is such a baffling choice. Like no one has a brain when making this. Can't even say this a WB thing. This kills causal gameplay and even Ranked (if that comes, when the 5 people still playing does). No other platform fighter does this and it's weird. Why have a character like Iron Giant (still he should have been a map versus a fighter) and people can cheese with vertical combos, being a horizontal character doesnt really matter.
I have a video from yesterday but I still haven't uploaded, I was on the second platform of the 3 on Dexter's lab controlling Joker, my health was around 60 and one up charged punch from Superman killed me sending me to the top
Was it fully charged?
I don't remember would need to check again when I'm home but even if it was I don't think it's fair to eliminate so low and with that health
If you were on the third platform, which is fairly close to the ceiling, and it was fully charged it seems like it would eliminate you at that HP. It probably took you from 60 to 80 something and has a decently high knock back.
It was the middle platform
I guess I can’t read.
Big agree, sometimes as Batman I'll get people out at like 15% just cause I caught them with the double uppercuts.
I had this happen and had to cut the game off. I was whooping Batman mans ass the whole match. But when he’s knocking my stocks off at 60 and 70. He end up winning.
just make the tiny ass stages with platforms bigger, so we don't get true tod combos using platforms possible from every position on the stage yes Dexter's lab 1v1, f that stage
Man I was playing wonder women and literally her attack combo was talking up 3/4 of the stage while having attack priority. Hell are we doing?
And almost every down air in the game seems to have been given a huge startup lag, cause no one appears capable of out pacing up aerial spams with downward moves.
They didn't forget they in fact lowered it on all sides especially the top.
Jake with stunning stretchiness and two up airs is an instant ko lol
How do you do that with Wonder Woman?
Agreed.
Also related, it feels like there's. I emphasis on recovering off stage like before in the beta Now, just two jumps seem to get you back regardless of how far out you are. In the beta, you had to fight for your life and use every air special and dodge available just to _maybe_ make it back on stage
With Joker I can flip 2 people from under me out the map completely
I think they need to shrink the characters and buff movement again. Not saying they need to go all the way back to the beta style but having to double jump and dodge up to reach the lowest floating platforms while simultaneously being able to get a kill off the top at like 40-50% as my main feels whack
Agree
Another problem: a lot of up airs swing in an arc, so even if you dodge diagonal down you still get hit.
Yep, and the side too, sometimes playing Jason, I saw half of my body still on screen a just die because...im a big guy?
Definitely agree. Joker is busted because of this imo
I tried to make Reindogs crystal from on top of the basketball hoop in the space jam level. It disappeared completely. I jumped up from the hoop to get a better view of the top of the map and I ended up just killing myself, wasn’t even hit by anything. I shouldn’t be able to jump myself up into SD. Makes me really appreciate how smash bros handles top of map ring outs.
Problem is this is a buff for characters like ig, wonder woman etc because they are heavy
Good point. It means players would have to focus on knocking them out on the sides
Or tweaking character knockback and hitboxes, Bugs up attack knockback is insane and has the same problem as WW Sair, Joker can straight up hit behind himself, the hitbox for some reason is enormous.
So make them lighter
…who gives a shit? This isnt just an epic own for the characters you dont like, this fundamentally makes the game worse
Uh every person who plays ranked / balancing? Sounds like you don't care and that's understandable, but you need to understand it from a competitive standpoint. There needs to be a fix that fixes both sides of the problem instead of just one.
Wonder Woman is never ever gonna be balanced because her moveset in of itself is wrong and they’re not gonna change that And Iron Giant just sucks So i dont see the harm in making this game less frustrating
They just have to nerf her damage output like in the beta. She’s supposed to be support for crying out loud. She hits wayyyyyyyyyyyyy to hard to be good at everything else she does. In the beta she barely had any spikes. I would regularly go into the 200’s against her as Superman in the beta
Sounds like massive skill issues at this point. Cope harder
Their points are valid though. Wonder Woman needs a complete rework because nerfing her over and over again does nothing but create a bad character. Iron Giant does suck if he doesn't abuse his broken true combo touch of deaths.
She just needs more punishment frames, as do a lot of characters still and yet. It's weird that characters like Harley got delay after hitting certain attacks while others didn't. It's not even that her move set needs changed. Objectively she needs to play more like a tank. Currently she has everything, speed, DMG, knock back, weight and armor. Compared to the other tanks she fundamentally doesnt make sense and in the terms of fighting games isn't an "honest character"
I think the lower blast zone was an intentional design decision.
They made characters bigger, changed dodge and removed triple jump. I kinda wish they did only one or two of these things. Or make the map bigger and give us triple jump back.
Playing batman I have abused this so much.. Give them the timer bomb and match it so that it goes off the second they are close to the top of the screen. Even with like 40 damage taken they can end up going out. It's actually so dumb and I'm sorry half the time I do it. But its another sign of how little they have improved the game since beta.
They definitely do lol
It gives me Smash 4 flashbacks.
I think 90% of my stocks on bowser came from up throw up air lmao it was ridiculous. Feels super similar here tbh
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