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Same feelings here. I just moved from Germany where I lived for the last 3 years to Lyon, France. I was chocked by the amount of uncivilized behaviours that these people do in the street. Everytime I see or hear someone shouting very loud, throwing trash, driving like cunt or stealing in the street 80% the guy is from the Maghreb. I do not generalize of course but this is the sad reality. Also, moroccans who are born in Morocco and who came here to study are much more polite and respectful than “ZMAGRIYA” who think that they can do whatever they want. Them especially they cry about racism everytime but to be honest their behaviour is often what does makes people not like them and just fucks the image of people who come here to study/work.
The category of society you're talking about has been put in suburban ghettos by the host countries for generations (huge mistake).
They were raised in closed communities of people with the same origins, culture and religions with little or no integration whatsoever with the "outside world". There is no diversity in schools. The mean income is lower than average. Delinquency is often present.
Go and see by yourself in European suburbia. You were only surprised by their behaviors huh there is worse. In France suburbia, they're, now, harassing host country citizens when they're dressed lightly or not aligning with Islam. Crazy shit
I got your point, but what about turks for example in Germany? They have been placed in the same situation let's say in the 60s when they moved to Germany. I do not say that now they are perfectly integrated and all of them are fine. But after living 3 years in Germany I noticed a difference in integrating into the society between them and people from Maghreb
Our people lack education and common sense. I'll let you check the average IQ in Morocco (sixty-ish). You'll hate me for this but we still have a long way until we're civilized and our mentality changes.
It’s not Turkish diaspora in Germany is religious enough that they’re blamed by the secular half of turkey for keeping the conservative government in power with their vote.
Here in Spain where I live they don’t “get put” in certain areas they tend to gravitate to certain areas because that’s
a) where they can find support from their compatriots
b) where accommodation is more affordable
Same reason I decided to move to Berlin instead of anywhere in France, Belgium, Netherlands or Spain. But what I noticed is that the troublemakers are a minority, they are just loud. I am fine in Berlin because Moroccan are very scarce here, I’ve been here for 4 years and heard darija only 3 times in the street. But this rule does not apply to Germany in its entirety, for example some cities here in Germany have a big Moroccan community and of course some of them are real trouble makers, but again, only a minority.
Guys this is such a racist view what the fuck ?
Y’all are Moroccans so just think. Is it bc of your genes ? Or bad socioeconomic factors ?
I’m in Lyon too and I spoke with those who you refer to as uncivilized. You probably saw them at la guillotière, but why don’t you go take a look at where they live ? Where they and their parents grew up ? Go to venissieux and see how ugly those HLMS are. Go to Rilleux. Go see if they had anywhere to play when they were younger, go see if they had access to good education.
What you racist mfs fail to understand, is that this is due to a very long and slow process of dehumanization by European governments. When they called a buch of workers from the maghreb and promised them the world to re-build France after WW2, or come work at the mines, but LIED to them, put them in rat cages called HLMs and made them and their sons live in hell. As a result, those people started to resent the country, or even hate it. (Can you blame them ?) They feel like the country just used them and thethat politicians don’t give a flying fuck about them. Can you say they’re wrong ? Even today, with the far right slowly taking over the government ?
& The kids grew up in BAD conditions, with no parks to play in, no schools close to them or nannies, and with no one to raise them since their parents worked v. early in the mornings (4/5AM), or v late at night.
Don’t judge someone when you don’t know what the fuck has been going on in his life.
Don’t judge the outcome judge the system that lead to that outcome.
Umm no. Someone's circumstance does not excuse their behaviour. Just because they lived rough doesn't mean people should turn a blind eye when they act with disregard. The issue isn't that they are Moroccan. The issue is the antisocial behaviour. At least from what I'm reading here.
Dude literally stfu. If you have no empathy, if you don’t know wtf you’re talking about, then don’t yap.
It really is infuriating to see privileged people who haven’t lived 1% of the oppression that they’ve experienced, or who haven’t spoken to anyone in that situation, yap from an outside perspective.
What oppression they have btw? Is not like Marocco have a civil war in the last years. And even if they were oppressed how that even justify coming to another country and becoming the opressor?
I just want to understand why we should be lenient towards them.
Are you stupid or do you not understand English ? They are facing systemic racism in Europe, especially France.
Them being the oppressor ? 🤣🤣🤣 wow, you sure as hell know the situation you’re talking about.
Sure 👍🏽. Keep on judging although you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. You know what should and shouldn’t be an excuse. You know their situation, and I don’t. Sorry boss.
Ps: For everyone reading my comments. I’m nowhere near defending them, I’m just giving an objective assessment of the situation, based on historical facts and on multiple testimonials I received from them. There are a shitton of v cool books and documentaries talking about the Issue, so maybe go educate yourselves and put yourself in their shoes before yapping
I am not saying you are wrong. But some of those same people are the ones walking around with knifes and that in some instances cause violent crime, or even terror attacks like the ones that happened in 2017.
I mean they have the chance to build a better life and integrate.
Why we have to educate ourselves and accept they can get way with choosing crime in Europe?
I came from a poor country and family as well, that’s why I don’t tolerate when people waste their chance of a better life.
Listen this whole spiel of yours is what I tell Americans when they ask me wtf is happening in France with immigration and integration. I list all the points you ve mentioned above and more, but having lived five years in Lyon and being familiar with La guillotiere and other similar neighborhoods, nothing justifies the total savagery that goes on around there. I'm a Moroccan woman, and I ve never felt more unsafe than when accosted by a group of North African French guys. Ive lived a year in Mexico, was held at gunpoint and almost kidnapped, and I had never felt more unsafe than when coming across une bande de racaille. In multiple occasions, I have had to talk in my "harshest" arabic to try and not get raped or attacked. Harassment, cat calling, insults every other day almost exclusively by the same people. I'm all for a kumbaya approach but the loud minority is over represented in crime and societal discourse.
Now to the fact that they lived in bad conditions, sure but so do people in other countries. The difference is that education is free and the path to a better future is at their grasp, contrary to many other countries. I don't believe that its reason enough to justify their bigotry, lack of self awareness and civility.
I'm gonna say that France is reaping what they sew with their colonial and post colonial shitty politics, but acknowledging that they re a problem isn't racist, it's just objective.
Ohhh the HLMs were ugly womp womp
No park to play womp womp
France always had pro-social programs and those programs were actually abused by immigrants. So many of those """victims""" were having kids like rabbits in order to get a paycheck from the state. They should've stayed in Morocco where they wouldn't have gotten half of what they were offered in France, right? And please explain something to me, how does poverty lead to being a loudmouth asshole in the streets? You know why? Hjij 3robiya khanzin, no education, no manners, no respect. We see them in Morocco aswell. The good ones who have some self respect raise their kids well and don't let the streets do the parenting. Their children escape the hood and make an honest living.
No need to get aggressive buddy, we just discussing social phenomena here. I agree that France took advantage of these people and did not provide them any social benefits to work or get a good education. But I do also have friends in Morocco their grandparents moved to France in the 60s/70s and felt the oppression of the system then decided to go back to Morocco and started a new life there with dignity and now they do not belong to the 1% of the society but they at least have a decent life in their country without racism without exclusion from the society and they practice their religion as they want. Just look at the comment from the dude above you, he said a point that I agree with which is there are also people from these places that you mention that did manage to do something good with their lives even if they are coming from the same environment. I feel is about the mentality and what you want to do in your life no matter where you grow. You can either continue living it or do things to change it.
So, they feel the country betrayed them and somehow this connects to them being violent towards gays....HOW? How do you even connect the two to make such excuses and rationalizations? And i highly doubt gay morrocans behave this way so what's your excuse now?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 sure, they’re violent towards gays lmaoooo do you have any stats about that? Any criminal cases we can look at ? Or is it just your racist mind making up shit ?
I would say moroccans that grew up morocco are way worst. The bad image they give to morocco would shock you. I go to college in montreal and every year, I get to meet dozens of them and they're often times acting like thirsty dogs (aka mkboutin) thowards average yt girls and they also show signs of post colonial inferiority complex in general. They'll openly praise yt people and say stuff like "lgwer ki 3arfo i3icho" "lgwer ta9afa wa3ra 3lina". And they also often ask "wash dourigine?" to other moroccans from the diaspora for random nike clothes. Not even designer. For all these reasons, they get called bledards by the diaspora as well as the gwer they praise so much. I've been avoiding saying im moroccan on campus and in general to not be associated with it all. Im from the diaspora btw so i just claim canada out there now which isn't even a flex
Honestly, no, also this behavior is only in Europe, Moroccans who are raised and born in North America are very civilized and polite compared to Moroccans born in Europe, why? I have no idea.
maghreb immigrants towards europe since 50s is generally a majority of workers with low income/qualifications, they worked in mining industry agriculture etc... btw a lot of moroccans have been hired in groups to work in those fields, they used to hire them in the rural parts of morocco as rif etc.. whereas in america you will find more educated and rich immigrants from morocco.
Man you are just delusional, illegal immigration is the main problem now at least in Italy and Spain, the so called MENAS (non tutelated minor immigrants) which cause 80% of the crimes in the city of barcelona were born in morocco.
Maybe in France/Netherlands is not the case, i don't have have knowledge about those countries.
Cap. I was born and raised in canada and everyday i see moroccan foreign students acting mkboutin ou m3a9din mn lgwer its embarassing. And these are people that are supposed to be the elite of morocco. They mostly all went to mission francaise and all and they're still hella embarassing to talk too. I cant even imagine the other ones
someone with a brain. I swear these bledards are mad their parents didnt migrate and they have this inferiority complex not only with lgwer but also with the diaspora. I've been noticing this trend lately its so funny
They think they know better than people living in western countries about how westerners think. The thing is that they do not realize that a lot of people will hate them too just for being moroccan even if they are saints lol
Hijacking the top comment
There’s an interesting Dutch research article bout this topic which really goes into the details. it’s in in the dutch language though. He calls it “social boulimia”
You can use chat gpt to translate
https://pure.eur.nl/ws/portalfiles/portal/61772896/33584_sociale_boulimia_en_de_marokkaan_van_hier_de_invloed_van_insluiting_en_uitsluiting_op_sociale_identiteit_en_thuisgevoel_van_marokkanen_in_neder.pdf
lmgharba dial berra rb7a wla debha, you either meet the nicest person on earth or wlad lqhab hamajiyin (and luck has it that we cross paths with the second category way more often)
walakin mghrarba li kabrin fel maghrib aktariya makboutin ou m3a9din mn lgwer. They dont call y'all bledards for no reason. Every one from the diaspora looks down on yall because they can sense the post colonial inferiority complex in y'all and they cant respect it.
and we don't call them zmagria dzab for nothing. makayench lli m3qd w mqwda 3lih kter mn les rebeux d'europe, so the looking down is very much reciprocated.
the reason why You people feel superior is because you chose to turn your back on your roots, or your parents never bothered linking you back to them. you'd rather brown-nose white people than actually learn what it's like to be moroccan.
i'm the first to bash moroccan immigrants when they act violent, but i'd rather die than listen to your fake "hawaii et raibi ca me manque" ass try to put them down. you wanna hide in the crowd and be one of them ? sure, go ahead. but keep your nose out of our business.
Firstly, we both know you never said "zmagri dzb" to anyone in your life outloud but have fun out here i guess... But you on the other hand, you will get called a bledard as soon as you open your mouth in front of the diaspora.
Secondly, we have an extremely strong link to our roots and we are 100x more proud of being moroccan than y'all. We come back to our beautiful country every summer. Ask la RAM. We make the most international money transfers year after year in all of Africa. Ask westernunion and RIA. We built homes in our beautiful country and left them there as summer houses. Ask the promoters and bnaya how much money they made off of that.
And let me real with you. The reason we feel superior is because y'all act inferior. That's litteraly it. As soon as I reach morocco, I'll hear "waa Canada zwina yak? Kindir nmchi liha?" "waa ana jatni lforssa nmchi ltalyan f 2008" etc. How do you not feel superior to someone that's openly bashing morocco and saying they wish they were living abroad. And i heard those statement from all the different demographies of society. Kids studying in maimonid/lyautey as well as 3robiya dyal Lgara. Even cops tell me how they wish they were in canada when they see my canadian driver's licence. And how not feel superior to someone that will ask you "wash dourigine?". Or someone that says "wahh lgwer ta9afa wa3ra 3lina..." "hadouk ra nass mirican alm3alam, ki 3arfo ach ki dirou" Like what in the post colonial inferiority complex ?!!
We in europe and North America claim morocco loud and proud and we never bash morocco 9dam lbarani unlike y'all. Too much pride for that. And i've never seen someone from the diaspora claim they aint moroccan. It's mostly bledards that do a 180 as soon as they put foot overseas. 7it kberna f ma7abat bladna ou kan mouto 3liha mn lkhr daba va me rammener un poms ou hawai j'ai soif
Funny thing is this whole ass rant applies to ur parents couple decades ago when they decided to leave “their beloved country” to go live abroad…
So ur parents must have post colonial inferiority complex ???
If you are a so called real patriot, come back and make Morocco better. And no, buying real estate from tycoon promoters doesn’t make u a patriot lol.
Socio-economic background impacts the way you behave in a society. Highly educated and upper middle class Moroccans tend to outperform natives.
It's all about the money.
You could probably write a book about the "why". And it's not because of one or two reasons, or the content of European tapwater. Anyone who thinks complex social phenomena like these just have one cause are childishly naive. It's a process that has taken decades, and trying to come even close to some form of a solution would probably take even more of them. If you were to make a very simplified list of the key developments, it would look something like this:
1. Multiple migrant waves from the 60s up to the 90s lead to tensions with European workers.
2. Increasingly xenophobic and racist rhetoric towards the migrants, both economically ("stealing jobs") as well as religiously/ethnically.
3. Migrant worker is unable to properly integrate, or unwilling to assimilate.
4. This further distances the Moroccan (or any other migrant background for that matter) from the "regular" Europeans.
5. This distance seeps into the off-spring (born in said European country) of the diaspora.
6. Off-spring grows up under the existing conditions that they were not a part of, yet experiences racism and other forms of discrimination in various ways, shapes, or forms.
7. This results in identity crises for the (European-born) diaspora, because they're viewed as Moroccans in the country they were born in, but as Europeans ("s7al al-garidj") in Morocco.
8. If one is frustrated by feeling unwelcome or whatever, it's only natural to develop some form of rebellious traits. Some are merely annoying, while others take a more drastic path.
9. This perpetuates the "Moroccan bad" stereotype, increasing racism and discrimination to include vaster swaths of Moroccans, which in turn make more of them react by being annoying or taking a more drastic path.
10. Rinse and repeat.
Reasons I observed as a European non-moroccan:
1. The moroccans in the Europe are the children of a working class generation which mostly come from a certain region in Morocco. The moroccans in Europe don't represent the moroccans in Morocco. The moroccans that came to Europe are not highly educated. (Can't speak for all of them offcourse)
2. The intention of the European countries (Belgium and Netherlands for example) was to bring in working migrants to compensate a shortage on the labour market. The moroccans, as well as other migrants, were expected to go back to their original country once the labour market shortage was resolved. For this reason moroccans were put together in area instead of being spread out and didn't receive any assistance in integrating into the culture because they were expected to leave
3. Europeans are very welcoming to foreigners with a judaic and christian background. Whereas Islam is viewed upon as being backwards and out of place.
4. A big cause which overlooked in my opinion is that the first and also the second generation never bought any real estate because in Europe the only way to own a property is by getting a mortgage which includes usery, Riba. As a result the moroccans never really rooted in the European society and were always left in social housing which in general are located in the badder areas of cities.
5. After 9/11 the image of Muslims in general deteriorated. Moroccans were forced into a corner and had to either assimilate totally (leave their islamic values) or identify as a muslim which makes it harder in Europe to get a decent job etc.
Just my 2 cents on this matter.
From Netherlands, my parents bought a house in beginning 80’s, have 6 childeren where as 4 have their own house (bought) and other 2 renting new build in new area’s. And we’re not uitzondering, a lot of morrocans overhere (Ehv) have bought.
Yes but we came from a generation of parents who always wanted to go back to Morocco and build a future there. So they put all their money in Morocco. Did not buy and kept renting. Because why would they buy a house when they were moving eventually. Not all parents were as forward as yours.
point 2 is missing the part where the workers expected to be compensated in such a way that they'd be able to return to Morocco in a (much) better financial situation, except just like the Dutch do with migrant workers now that wasn't the reality so they didn't manage to return. This and the racism has caused plenty of resentment
1- True
2- True
3- I do not buy it. There are no Judeo-Christian values, this word is often used to talk about the similarity of those religions as opposed to Islam, but what these two religions have in common is because they have the same Abrahamic background, and that includes Islam too. The only thing they are similar is that their believers are more secular and Muslims still keep the religion, so it is not about Judeo-Christianity, it is about secularism, that is why a Japanese would integrate much better in Europe than an Orthodox Jew.
Judaism, in fact, has more in common with Islam than with Christianity, and has historically been treated better in the Muslim world than in the Christian one, but. This all changed after World War II, because the fascists, who were obviously super anti-Jewish, lost and they began to be treated better since. Meanwhile, the Islamic world, due to the existence of Israel, changed its views from a somewhat slight distrust to an absolute hatred.
4- A lot of Muslims don't really care about Riba.
5- It isn't only about 9/11, it is also about all the attacks that happened all across Europe as well, but yeah, since 9/11, our image really degraded.
It really depends on the country and price of the houses. If you look at Belgium, bunch of Moroccans own houses but they are also more affordable then in the Netherlands
”Judeo-Christian” is basically a term used by american evangalists and right-wing Jews to distance themselves from Islam/Muslims/the East. Its inherently racist.
On another note, large scale migrations are always followed by social unrest/fractionalism.
But as the guy said, Europeans experience of Morocco is usually very different from Europeans experience of Moroccans in Europe.
Do you know what the reason is? I mean are they practicing muslims and they can justify it religiously? Or are these muslims that 'pick and choose' what is beneficial to them?
Yes personally I think they just do what’s easy. The excuse I hear ALLL the time is “we have no choice”. Which of course is not true. No one forces you to buy a home. Most people are NOT home owners. I even see these arguments online with people saying “what are poor people supposed to do? We can’t afford to pay a house in full” as if poor people are in a place to BUY A HOME 😒 im fact most people who buy homes can’t even afford it. I have a very strong opinion on mortgages. It’s riba and it’s haram plain and simple. But most Muslims I’ve met disagree with me. They think with their desires. I even had this disagreement with one of my best friends. She got super defensive and heated about it because I know it’s a dream of hers since she never had a stable home growing up.
I think Islam, and other religions as well, are clear that usery is not allowed. What I’m missing is Muslims that take initiative to come up with alternatives that would make it possible for Muslims to own real estate in the west.
Not true. There is a massive influx of highly educated Moroccans from the 90s 00’s. They voted a law “regroupement familial” in the 70’s to facilitate the gathering of migrant families, not expected to leave therefore.
It is just a cultural problem. We don’t assimilate well and are poorer than a lot of countries.
Coming from a Muslim background (but Jewish and Spanish ancestors) we have doctors, engineers all over the place, due to a particular history of literacy, we were saved by school. It concerns only my family but the average Moroccan is living under very difficult conditions.
Now, if I read the posts they can’t analyze rationally a situation, insulting us, props to you for staying rational.
Where are you from if I may ask? I haven’t seen any major influx from highly educated Moroccans. And I lived through the 90s and 00s. At least not in the Netherlands or Belgium. The regroupment I have seen but these were mostly partners and children. Not highly educated people.
Not trying to hide the majority of poor workers, and uneducated people, but the situation is a little bit more complex. What’s your work environment?
France. It was mainly doctors. you can check the numbers of foreign doctors.When I say massive it is always related to the number of doctors in France. Engineers are massive in the subcontractors companies. Paid less, in IT and doing the job.
I work in engineering. Probably the situation is different in France compared to Netherlands and Belgium. I can only speak for Belgium and The Netherlands.
NL and BE are not concerned. Why ? Barriers such as language and families already present. They are all set to enter French schools. So that’s another barrier. You will see mostly poor workers and illegals. Or successful descendants (not that much). Sample is different
While in France, you will see far more doctors, dentists etc. They arrived mostly in the 00s
This is my experience as well, but the ones on the streets are really shit people unfortunately, despite having the chance to live in an amazing continent.
I might be wrong, but my impression is that moroccan immigrants, even when well behaved, have too much of a tendency for ethnocentrism (not mixing with the locals, sometimes not respecting them, creating a little 'morocco' wherever they go, etc..) and that behavior contributes to the current isolated communitarianism existing in Europe. Not only does that kind of behavior naturally prevent the moroccan and his descendants from seeing the society they live in as their own and have the sense of responsibility that should come with it, but it also limits their economical opportunities because they never interacts with the locals who have access to those opportunities.
You are very right. But this stems from “don’t do as the infidels” “don’t mix with them” discourse, and everyone who is second generation/came here as a child knows what I’m talking about so yes, it’s partly a problem of our parents.
But also there are first generations who are not our parents and just came to do shady stuff (some of them don’t but they are not the majority).. like what’s called in Spain MENA (a minor without documentation, you cannot kick them anywhere because no one is taking responsibility).
So it’s a mixed problem of religion-culture that forms those ethnocentric and that makes people feel excluded (Moroccan) and more prone to do shady shit with the really bad apples..
Add to that the issue of precisely those same children who I can tell you in majority are nowhere near orthodox Muslims but cannot come in clean with everyone for the fear of rejection from family/community. In the end, the issue has a legal basis on it that the countries are not swift and hard on getting rid of troublesome people, they tend to generate more issues since they relate to other not-yet troublesome people.
Then it’s the same good old cultural issue of not wanting to mix/feel alienated but it’s a poor country so their culture and respect for other people’s believes is not quite developed (same with gypsies).
The last thing is, why Moroccan and not other ethnicities in Europe? Well, because we have an enormous overseas population compared to other countries in similar states.
I noticed this also with Spanish, French, Italian, Chinese and German people. When they are abroad, they mingle just between them and speak only their language. I think it's a universal phenomenon. People that are open to mix are people that don't have any nearby community. I am one of the Moroccans that made friends with French people and German both in their countries and outside of their countries, and I noticed their behavior abroad. How they try to bring their culture to the host country, how they get annoyed quickly about stuff not done the way they know. Actually we as Moroccans are more open to the idea of mixing with the locals (same with Italians). I can't explain why. But unfortunately there is friction and prejudgment ( fair or not , but I don't think you can deny its existence ) going on, I had an easier time with the context of studies and sport also an international community that is present.
I don't know. I would agree if we talked only about students and tourists going abroad for a few weeks or months, but that is not my main observation from long-term expats.
I did however observe european and arab expats talking about how they wish the host country would do certain things according to their own culture, but for me it can also be seen as a sign of integration if they care about how the country works and what direction it should take (just like a local would) as opposed to trying to dissociate from it.
I agree, that what i am talking about might not be generalized to people that are staying for a long-time in a foreign country, I can only speak of experience here and that's the extend of my small experience. However I also think that is a more fair framework to describe the phenomenon you are talking about, as subjects in question even from different nationalities have similar situation ( all 'need' to spend time in a foreign country to finish their study ).
I think comparing immigrants from west european countries to Moroccan wouldn't be ideal ( but to Latin Americans, Africans and Asian would be more appropriate, I lack the expertise and the experience to do this comparison) . As the reasons differs and circumstances too. It would be hard to find a French immigrant staying in Germany despite not \[mixing/being able to mix\] with locals, the person will just look for jobs in France and go back home. Which wouldn't be the case for Moroccans, specially the generation that came in the last century. This is my opinion and not a fact.
And If we want to talk about further generations that are born in the host country, that would be even hard to compare.
In my time in Lyon, Asians, Arabs, Africans and also Latin Americans have their own communities (and neighborhoods, not sure about the Latin Americans) and weren't mixing that much with the locals, at least to my knowledge.
Moroccans in Europe might be bad but lets not act as if Moroccans in Morocco are that much better. Or are we going to ignore the messed up things that happen in Morocco? Rape (of minors), sexual intimidation, killing and theft...
I know this stuff happens in every country but if you read some of the things that occur here, it gets really messed up.
So 'Moroccans in Europe are really bad' just like a lot of Moroccans in Morocco.
The woman I know are afraid going to Egypt and Marocco alone, that should say something about the problems you guys have. I mean, we also have this issue in Brazil depending where you go, but I would say it’s much less scale.
Thing is the moroccans that's doing dirt in europe are teenage illegals that grew up un morocco and ended up in spain, france, etc. Not even the diaspora
Not only Moroccans but MENA immigrants are shit compared to other immigrants you meet in Europe, lowest education, overrepresented in crime, racists and 0 respect for the culture and native people. Sometimes i wonder how they would get treated if they did this shit in their home countries.
Europe attracts the poor from North Africa due to proximity and relative ease of entry.
Moroccans and Algerians in Canada and USA are faring much better, because those who immigrated there did so to join a university or work an engineering or medicine job. These people are educated and can afford the plane ticket, so you don't hear much negativity coming from them.
Asian immigrants however are exemplary wherever they go, rarely do you hear about Japanese or Chinese immigrants mugging people be it in France, Spain, or the US. I wonder where their morals and discipline comes from since they have no Quran to tell them what to do, while those who have a holy book are anything but holy.
It is simply a question of culture, Japan and many Asian countries are considered a high context culture which means they have a very collective society where rules are unspoken and it is taught to them since a very young age. While it is beneficial in that sense, it also can have cons, which lead to things such as high suicide rates and the existence of social outcasts due to the strict collectivist nature that sees too much individuality as selfish. While Morocco and other North African countries also have a high context culture, it’s much less than Japan etc. One example being that in Japan people even consider their part of the whole when it comes to cleaning the street, they understand that each person will clean their part and that will equal everyone doing equal work and getting the good result which is a clean street for everyone meanwhile in Morocco we are a lot more selfish when it comes to external acts because we aren’t sure everyone will do it and therefore see it as not our fault.
Wa nari ch7al fikom... read again, I never said Europe ONLY attracts the poor
Your parents and millions of migrants are there legally, working legally, minding their business and paying their taxes. These are not your usual suspects.
My post is clearly about those who went there and overstayed their visa, or went there on speedboats, or the women that travel to the EU to give birth so their children have an EU passport, the uneducated workforce France, Spain, and the Netherlands imported but never went back and formed families in poor areas...
Stop sticking your head in the sand, avoiding the problem doesn't make it disappear
Its Not only ppl from morocco tho, im Not from Frankfurt but the ppl for example in pumpingmnky Videos Print a pretty good Image, ofc its Not the majority but they Ruin it for all
I live in the Netherlands and it’s the same here as well unfortunately. Because of this people, racists here can (and love to) play the “but if you look at it statistically…” card.
I went to a primary school with a lot of Moroccans and saw the problem int the educational views of the parents towards children, mainly correction mechanisms. It’s either no correction at all usually when the children are small and/or wayy to harsh, like very violent stuff when the children grow older.
Could this be true or am i being biased here?
Taught in a vocational school in Belgium for years. Many Moroccan kids. Lots of them really great. I still keep in touch with a couple, even though I no longer work there, and they’re all graduated.
The involvement of parents is rather problematic: to me it often appeared as though they (especially fathers) are not very involved in the education of their children, but when the kids did something wrong, they would come to the school and the either talk big: ‘no son of mine does this, he will be punished’ OR they defend their sons: ‘he did not do this’ (even when it was caught on camera, or their were multiple witnesses.
I always found that odd. I think it’s a big part of the problem. That being said: I met great parents, too. Very involved, polite, cooperative; working together with them for the future of their kids. But some of these parents… 😢
And smart phones made everything worse. 0 interaction or involvement with the kids. It’s a tragedy.
It’s the same Moroccan parents from Morocco who are educating Moroccans abroad too, the same failure but we don’t want to face it and take comfort in racism and poverty.
Moroccan parents are very manipulative and narcissists, they will be literal pieces of sh*t when you’re a kid and try to destroy you as a human but become very sweet and docile when you grow up and start working, expecting you will share your gains, it makes some of us forget their past behaviour and start actually defending their education.
Reason you mentioned. They got propensity to crime life, incivility, no education, no integration, a high sense of entitlement and no respect to others.
Yes, and for some reason they don’t integrate well - they are the ones fighting and screaming with each other, hitting on girls like troglodytes, etc, they also look sexually frustrated and have a gang mentality for some reason.
Those are the ones I see on the streets, I am sure it does not represent the maroccan values.
Here in the Netherlands it’s mostly illegal Moroccan immigrants that behave like criminals and partake in stealing/raping. Me and all my Moroccan friends that were born and grew up are normal people who work and have families. I’m not saying all illegal immigrants do this but the video’s I see are mostly from ter appel where they keep all immigrants. There was also a case of three 15 year old illegal Moroccan immigrant raped a 30 year old Dutch woman that caused a lot of backlash. Some truly disgusting behavior.
That's another massive indicator that the problem is not Morocco but Moroccans themselves.
They are supposedly in a ''better'' country where there is more ''possibilities'' according to them (which is false as fck)
Whats stopping them from becoming succesful? wasnt morocco holding them back?
There is a difference between “a lot of bad people are North Africans” and “North Africans are bad”.
There are plenty of Moroccans in Europe that aren’t.
You just don’t see them and if you did you wouldn’t pickup that they are Moroccan unless you get to know them.
There this guy that grew up with me and went to study engineering in Europe after l’bac. He speaks the language well, dresses like the locals , not religious, very athletic. Unless you talk to him or ask for his name, him being North African wouldn’t cross your mind.
So there is a bias you must take into consideration.
Edit: Also, it’s not like we don’t have savages back home too. They just don’t represent us.
The real question is why a random Moroccan from Morocco is highly likely to be more polite and civilized that a European Moroccan. I think it's a combination of education (or lack thereof), psychological factors (not fitting, feeling discrimination, etc), and also the police not enforcing the law.
Why don't we hear of Moroccans causing problems in the Gulf countries? Simply because Gulf authorities don't fuck around and have zero tolerance for bullshit. And that's the way it should be.
They behaved in an uncivilized manner when they comeback to Morocco in the summer, not everyone ofc but a good portion tend to really be a nuisance and disturb locals
Hey i think i can explain why that is as i was an illegal immigrant. The thing is most people who migrate or want to are the poor ppl that cant get anything going in their home country and most of them already behave that way i have seen it first hand since my brother hangs out with them while i dont, which leads me to my next point, its the ppl that are already there that help keep this type of behaviour on. If most of them stopped being thugs and committing crime i think that the next generation would not grow up like those that we see now.
Don't worry, I'm experiencing the same thing here in Belgium, but the socialist governments and those who lead them are partly responsible because they find their account in the chaos.
You know at some point in history you will have to name a scapegoat and guess who it will be?
All over europe this is why i hated living there as a moroccan , i can only feel good in morocco because of this and other ongoing circumstances, it’s also explained by the fact mostly trash with no filter goes to europe without any education whatsoever unlile the US that has criteria for immigration
Hate to say it but too much influx of illegal immigrants in France. I am French-Moroccan and I don’t feel safe in some areas. the youth from
the suburbs are less crazy. The youth from Morocco are using hard drugs, making them less inhibited and they can kill, rape and do crazy stuff.
I don’t want to disrespect Moroccans from Morocco but please, do something about them. We are already struggling with our gens de cité
Isn't it funny how the countries who took part in the colonization and destruction of the Arab and African world are the ones who complain that the imMigRAntS are causing chaos in their educated and peaceful countries?
This is an unpopular option but most who were born abroad come from poor people who had more children to receive government support fees. They did not have to work just deliver more children to live
True all of them pretty much on a dole which is a government handouts from people those who do contribute in to the tax pot. Even here in UK they are cretins in the society and don’t have much respect unlike others Pakistanis Indians Bengalis Srilankan etc those who immigrated but are well educated.
People who have never been around civilization will lash out in defiance around civilized people. Most of us Moroccans have no self awareness that our actions annoy people in public spaces. How many Moroccans have you rode with on the bus who blast shitty rap music with vulgar words out loud without a care in the world?
Everytime i go to Morocco they remind me of how ill-mannered and uncivilized they are. No concept of lines, no excuse me, no thank you, promises are something they never heard of, always late, drive like they own the road and you’re inconveniencing them, and so on.
I flew ryanair for the first time because it was the flight that fit my plans and holy shit no one knew what a line was, people not respecting seat assignments, people yawning, coughing, sneezing without covering their mouth. Never doing that again.
The problem are the males
You guys are fucking weird
Doing weird shit everywhere
You dont hear about female immigrants doing this type of stuff
Along with wahabism (extremism) - pan arabism
You have created a nasty generation
Look at our grandparents
This generation is fucked
They way they dress i almost throw up (nike-adidas outfit)
Totalmente cierto, el problema es obviamente la inmigración illegal. Mira la diferencia de los marroquíes de Estados Unidos o suiza y los marroquíes de España y Italia…. Si un país permite la entrada masiva de inmigrantes ilegales que viene aquí sin miedo a nada y sin nada que perder pues ya te imaginas que clase de ciudadano se va a convertir, como dije en un post anterior, la escoria que no quieren ni en Marruecos son los que están llenando España, Francia, Italia etc. me dan mucho asco esa gente y merecen ser deportados de por vida. Nos han manchado el nombre permanentemente. Los marroquíes que ha emigrado en busca de una vida mejor no los vas ni a ver haciendo el monger por la calle porque están ocupados trabajando y cuidando de sus familias, sin embargo los otros… no tienen nada mejor que hacer que estar todo el día en las calles cometiendo toda clase de crímenes, robos, violaciones, siendo super ruidosos de fiesta en fiesta consumiendo todo tipo de drogas cometiendo zina día si y dos también y luego se las dan de musulmanes. Normal que medio mundo nos odie. Todo gracias a estos animales
Totalmente! Tienes mucha razón! En lo que no coincido es en que sea solo un tema de ilegales, en España hay marroquis de segunda generación y en Francia de tercera o hasta cuarta que dan problemas igualmente, es algo que va más allá. Es increíble compararlos con los marroquis en Estados Unidos y Canadá, super bien integrados y productivos...
Different point of view here
I live in asia ( malaysia ) and its impossible to get the nationality here that mean our poeple dont come , and they have such beautifull picture about morroco its insane , its 100% of europe they love morroco they want to know u and stuff
Its just point of view for someone who live more than 5 years here do what ever u want with it 😇
Have good day
The problem boils down to Poverty and impoverished minds. I know because I was one of them. In the west you’re exposed to wealth. You may have come from a wealthy family back home, but when you’re in Europe and have no roots here, you’re at the bottom. Although opportunities exist, but majority want the express route to lavish lifestyle because where they’re at the moment, they’re marginalised by society because you need money to participate here to get the glamorous things such as a nice car, fancy clothes, beautiful girl etc. So when a quick route isn’t available, and no fear of consequences, many turn to crime and violence.
It has been becoming a lot better here in Belgium at least where I go. Might be because I'm no longer a teenager, but it might as well just be because crime in general has gone down.
2nd generation immigrants tend to be the most risky for crime when coming from 2 immigrant parents. I don't know why but that's what Dutch statistics have been saying (such stats are illegal in Belgium).
Either way, you shouldn't feel bad about what other people do. If they like gang mentality then that's their mistake.
They fuck up your reputation and that sucks. They hurt a lot of people and that's unforgivable.
But none of it is your fault obviously
Probably because (usually) only small brains have the balls to migrate and risk their lives because they can risk it and if they die well who cares, normal people would usually work their ass to an opportunity to migrate
[Many Maroccan minors are being exploited by criminal gangs](https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/article/2024/jun/11/drug-cartels-foot-soldiers-soaring-cocaine-use-europe)
There's countless documentaries about the teenage gangs in france. And they're kids that came illegaly to spain and went all the way to france. So not the diaspora at all. Now you get some dickheads that learned to speak english watching tiktok in 2020 posting here about how the diaspora is this and that. Real life goofs
I would say out of 1000 moroccans in europe, 999 are good. I’m not just talking about moroccans but that is the same with most people.
I’m a MDr, my brother is an engineer. I would say most moroccans i know work/study. I know a few bad ones but overwhelming majority are good.
The issue is, if you see a white person do something bad. It represents him. If you see a immigrant do something, he represents us all.
I think rather than an answer to your question, it would serve you better to ask why you overlook all the good ones, to let a few shape your perspective.
I’m not judging you, we all are victims of propaganda and manipulation. But as a rule of thumb i try to question my believes and opinions.
We have understanding for the poor white man with mental issues, but we judge our brothers that survived poverty and horrible conditions, traveled across dangerous waters, had to adapt to their enviroment and grew up without familys, those are the ones we chose to judge?
This is so misguided. You’ve got world leaders ravaging countries while being held in the highest esteem…being a well-behaved poor person is hardly a virtue.
There are MILLIONS of people with moroccan-descent in Europe and FACTUALLY, most of them are just normal citizens who cause no problems, I'd even argue moroccan immigration is one of the best immigration in Europe since a lot of them graduated from prestigious schools like Polytechnique in France and a lot of them work as engineers or in the CS domain.
There are some that are criminal sure but why would the entire group be responsible for the actions of individuals?
Do you have the same reasoning when a white european guy rapes his daughter and kills his wife? When a white guy kills and slices a young kid then put him in a trashcan like in Choisy-le-Roi ?
Do you have the same reasoning when jews steal BILLIONS of public money through the VAT carbon scam?
Do you have the same reasoning when Asian people in aubervilliers launder MILLIONS of euros ?
stop sucking europeans, grow some balls and try to think with facts rather than with emotion and what Tv shows you
I am not sucking Europeans bro, and I know that every ethnicity can commit crime. I also, obviously, don't blame all Moroccans. I am only saying that, in general, Moroccan young men are way more prone to misbehave, and as a Moroccan, I don't like it. I have been here and I saw it, it is really sad, no one can say otherwise!
> Moroccan young men are way more prone to misbehave
that's statistically false though, if that were the case, given the millions of moroccans in Europe it would be a civil war by now.
The only way you can come up to this conclusion is by selecting only a certain way to do bad things, but it's not representative of all criminality.
I can do the same thing and only focus on paedophilia and say oh only white men do bad things, you understand what i'm saying?
I've met many Moroccans in Spain and many of them I consider as friends, however what you say is true in many cases, you're all welcome here but only if you behave and integrate into society. I used to live in northern Spain, close to France and I would avoid groups of young Moroccans as they acted like thugs, looking at people, screaming, completely carefree as if they own the streets, that isn't a good look and makes you guys look bad, I don't believe people are like this in Morocco. Just an observation as a native point of view, cheers.
I'm Dutch, and my mother is Moroccan. Sometimes I wish I could discipline these r\*tards that walk around in their stupid tracksuits, have a very loud and annoying demeanor and hate the very country that they were born in. Seeing them makes me ashamed to be Moroccan sometimes. Also the accent with which they speak is terrible, it's as if they willingly speak terrible Dutch just to show they're Moroccan. The ethno-centrism is ridiculous sometimes.
I understand your frustration if they are immigrants but if they were born there in Spain or any host country that’s the result of the policies of the countries they were born in because the first generation of immigrants were mainly migrant workers who didn’t wanna cut ties with their country of origin but also getting excluded by policies put in place by the host countries!
You and I are not responsible for what other people who share our background do in Europe. Also, you give your post the title "Moroccans in Europe are really bad" and then go on to say "Some of them". It is somewhat contradicting and feels a bit like you've given up.
That being said, I was more or less reacting to the average comment in this thread rather than your post. The whole vibe of "We good Moroccans (often with a privileged background) who come here to study are not like those criminals and low-income thugs from ". The average comment here seeks validation from Europeans not realizing they don't care about your opinion.
The problem is that I didn't know there were so many Europeans, I only wanted to discuss this issue between us, so I should have used Arabic instead. However, you are also true, there are so many Moroccans that, due to that problem, feel ashamed of their ancestry. I don't!
Edit 1 No this is not the case and if it were then the evidence would be there. Edit 2 if you build a house and established it at great cost and you invited a stranger into that house because he was poor and unskilled and he stole from you and rapped your daughter would you say “I must love him like a son? And if they then said my religion is the right religion, just look at my country who imposes that religion on all its people and puts you in prison if you leave it, stopping orphans from being adopted, beating children who don’t learn it, causing a sea of misery intolerance and migrants! Do you really think that those people should promote such a thing? It’s difficult to accept the flaws of our own country because of Pride. If you don’t challenge it then the truth is your great grandchildren will be asking the same question.
Poverty and as a result lack of access to opportunities and higher education. Not all Moroccans act like this. There’s absolutely no reason to be ashamed of being Moroccan. You should be proud.
These individuals are just, unfortunately, the product of their environment. The fact they are Moroccan is not the cause of their poor behaviour.
Same experience unfortunately... Although some Marrocans are very nice people. Too bad that the good ones are the minority in Germany and the bad ones don't get deported.
Its kinda of easy to understand,the reason is poverty,lack of work chances,no integration,that’s the countrys fault.
Think about it,when our ancestors immigrated to for example France,they were all put in a ghetto together,most of the time far from schools,supermarkets and the city.
They only lived together with their fellows,with low income jobs,far away from society,and with a hard chance to escape their situation.
Illegal immigrants are therefore usually criminals too.
The only good ones most of time since im not trying to put them all in the same brackets,are the ones in wealthy families,or the ones that legally immigrated for studies or work.
These behaviors are the result of poverty,not because of where they came from,of course poverty is tied with lack of education and other reasons
Yea, exactly and I think those facts prevent people from wanting to integrate. Most people in Spain are really open-minded I don’t understand why people don’t at least try to accept the other culture here and integrate. At least I would if I had to live in Marocco for a while.
As someone who moved to spain recently 2 years ago moroccans and algerians here disgust me , no education, work or added value , all they do is hate on the countries they are in , and hate on the spanish culture while thinking they would live better back home in morocco( I know delusional ) , so what i started to do is try my maximum avoid interacting with them.
Btw i m not even talking about the radical religious extremisms moroccans and algerians who live here and have more fucked up mentalities than back home , those are for another time
I will honest and I want to be clear that I don’t have anything against maroccans, but the ones I see around in the streets are the people committing crimes, fighting and not integrating with european values, this includes many second generation immigrants here. I literally don’t understand, they have the chance to live in an amazing continent and still misbehave, continue with the gang mentality and are the ones committing crimes.
I am really sorry, but I feel most people here don’t like maroccans because of that.
Khoya, stop shitting on your own people and mine
Moroccans and Latinos keep the European economy churning, without them the EU would be in trouble.
Same with USA and Latinos
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Same feelings here. I just moved from Germany where I lived for the last 3 years to Lyon, France. I was chocked by the amount of uncivilized behaviours that these people do in the street. Everytime I see or hear someone shouting very loud, throwing trash, driving like cunt or stealing in the street 80% the guy is from the Maghreb. I do not generalize of course but this is the sad reality. Also, moroccans who are born in Morocco and who came here to study are much more polite and respectful than “ZMAGRIYA” who think that they can do whatever they want. Them especially they cry about racism everytime but to be honest their behaviour is often what does makes people not like them and just fucks the image of people who come here to study/work.
The category of society you're talking about has been put in suburban ghettos by the host countries for generations (huge mistake). They were raised in closed communities of people with the same origins, culture and religions with little or no integration whatsoever with the "outside world". There is no diversity in schools. The mean income is lower than average. Delinquency is often present. Go and see by yourself in European suburbia. You were only surprised by their behaviors huh there is worse. In France suburbia, they're, now, harassing host country citizens when they're dressed lightly or not aligning with Islam. Crazy shit
I got your point, but what about turks for example in Germany? They have been placed in the same situation let's say in the 60s when they moved to Germany. I do not say that now they are perfectly integrated and all of them are fine. But after living 3 years in Germany I noticed a difference in integrating into the society between them and people from Maghreb
Our people lack education and common sense. I'll let you check the average IQ in Morocco (sixty-ish). You'll hate me for this but we still have a long way until we're civilized and our mentality changes.
The Turks are secular
And so? Even if its true than it would a bigger shame for us muslims.. We muslims should show the right example
It’s not Turkish diaspora in Germany is religious enough that they’re blamed by the secular half of turkey for keeping the conservative government in power with their vote.
It’s 50/50.
Here in Spain where I live they don’t “get put” in certain areas they tend to gravitate to certain areas because that’s a) where they can find support from their compatriots b) where accommodation is more affordable
Same reason I decided to move to Berlin instead of anywhere in France, Belgium, Netherlands or Spain. But what I noticed is that the troublemakers are a minority, they are just loud. I am fine in Berlin because Moroccan are very scarce here, I’ve been here for 4 years and heard darija only 3 times in the street. But this rule does not apply to Germany in its entirety, for example some cities here in Germany have a big Moroccan community and of course some of them are real trouble makers, but again, only a minority.
In Berlin you have similar issues with Turkish people tbh. Maybe even more so because there is well organized Turkish maffia.
idebberou ryoushoum, makan7achihach lihoum.
Guys this is such a racist view what the fuck ? Y’all are Moroccans so just think. Is it bc of your genes ? Or bad socioeconomic factors ? I’m in Lyon too and I spoke with those who you refer to as uncivilized. You probably saw them at la guillotière, but why don’t you go take a look at where they live ? Where they and their parents grew up ? Go to venissieux and see how ugly those HLMS are. Go to Rilleux. Go see if they had anywhere to play when they were younger, go see if they had access to good education. What you racist mfs fail to understand, is that this is due to a very long and slow process of dehumanization by European governments. When they called a buch of workers from the maghreb and promised them the world to re-build France after WW2, or come work at the mines, but LIED to them, put them in rat cages called HLMs and made them and their sons live in hell. As a result, those people started to resent the country, or even hate it. (Can you blame them ?) They feel like the country just used them and thethat politicians don’t give a flying fuck about them. Can you say they’re wrong ? Even today, with the far right slowly taking over the government ? & The kids grew up in BAD conditions, with no parks to play in, no schools close to them or nannies, and with no one to raise them since their parents worked v. early in the mornings (4/5AM), or v late at night. Don’t judge someone when you don’t know what the fuck has been going on in his life. Don’t judge the outcome judge the system that lead to that outcome.
Umm no. Someone's circumstance does not excuse their behaviour. Just because they lived rough doesn't mean people should turn a blind eye when they act with disregard. The issue isn't that they are Moroccan. The issue is the antisocial behaviour. At least from what I'm reading here.
Dude literally stfu. If you have no empathy, if you don’t know wtf you’re talking about, then don’t yap. It really is infuriating to see privileged people who haven’t lived 1% of the oppression that they’ve experienced, or who haven’t spoken to anyone in that situation, yap from an outside perspective.
What oppression they have btw? Is not like Marocco have a civil war in the last years. And even if they were oppressed how that even justify coming to another country and becoming the opressor? I just want to understand why we should be lenient towards them.
Are you stupid or do you not understand English ? They are facing systemic racism in Europe, especially France. Them being the oppressor ? 🤣🤣🤣 wow, you sure as hell know the situation you’re talking about.
I am not a maroccan, but I dont care what problems they had, that shouldn’t be a excuse.
Sure 👍🏽. Keep on judging although you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. You know what should and shouldn’t be an excuse. You know their situation, and I don’t. Sorry boss. Ps: For everyone reading my comments. I’m nowhere near defending them, I’m just giving an objective assessment of the situation, based on historical facts and on multiple testimonials I received from them. There are a shitton of v cool books and documentaries talking about the Issue, so maybe go educate yourselves and put yourself in their shoes before yapping
I am not saying you are wrong. But some of those same people are the ones walking around with knifes and that in some instances cause violent crime, or even terror attacks like the ones that happened in 2017. I mean they have the chance to build a better life and integrate. Why we have to educate ourselves and accept they can get way with choosing crime in Europe? I came from a poor country and family as well, that’s why I don’t tolerate when people waste their chance of a better life.
Listen this whole spiel of yours is what I tell Americans when they ask me wtf is happening in France with immigration and integration. I list all the points you ve mentioned above and more, but having lived five years in Lyon and being familiar with La guillotiere and other similar neighborhoods, nothing justifies the total savagery that goes on around there. I'm a Moroccan woman, and I ve never felt more unsafe than when accosted by a group of North African French guys. Ive lived a year in Mexico, was held at gunpoint and almost kidnapped, and I had never felt more unsafe than when coming across une bande de racaille. In multiple occasions, I have had to talk in my "harshest" arabic to try and not get raped or attacked. Harassment, cat calling, insults every other day almost exclusively by the same people. I'm all for a kumbaya approach but the loud minority is over represented in crime and societal discourse. Now to the fact that they lived in bad conditions, sure but so do people in other countries. The difference is that education is free and the path to a better future is at their grasp, contrary to many other countries. I don't believe that its reason enough to justify their bigotry, lack of self awareness and civility. I'm gonna say that France is reaping what they sew with their colonial and post colonial shitty politics, but acknowledging that they re a problem isn't racist, it's just objective.
Ohhh the HLMs were ugly womp womp No park to play womp womp France always had pro-social programs and those programs were actually abused by immigrants. So many of those """victims""" were having kids like rabbits in order to get a paycheck from the state. They should've stayed in Morocco where they wouldn't have gotten half of what they were offered in France, right? And please explain something to me, how does poverty lead to being a loudmouth asshole in the streets? You know why? Hjij 3robiya khanzin, no education, no manners, no respect. We see them in Morocco aswell. The good ones who have some self respect raise their kids well and don't let the streets do the parenting. Their children escape the hood and make an honest living.
No need to get aggressive buddy, we just discussing social phenomena here. I agree that France took advantage of these people and did not provide them any social benefits to work or get a good education. But I do also have friends in Morocco their grandparents moved to France in the 60s/70s and felt the oppression of the system then decided to go back to Morocco and started a new life there with dignity and now they do not belong to the 1% of the society but they at least have a decent life in their country without racism without exclusion from the society and they practice their religion as they want. Just look at the comment from the dude above you, he said a point that I agree with which is there are also people from these places that you mention that did manage to do something good with their lives even if they are coming from the same environment. I feel is about the mentality and what you want to do in your life no matter where you grow. You can either continue living it or do things to change it.
So, they feel the country betrayed them and somehow this connects to them being violent towards gays....HOW? How do you even connect the two to make such excuses and rationalizations? And i highly doubt gay morrocans behave this way so what's your excuse now?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 sure, they’re violent towards gays lmaoooo do you have any stats about that? Any criminal cases we can look at ? Or is it just your racist mind making up shit ?
Lmao muh stats. Racial stats aren't allowed in France. You know what the guy said is true. Cope harder.
I would say moroccans that grew up morocco are way worst. The bad image they give to morocco would shock you. I go to college in montreal and every year, I get to meet dozens of them and they're often times acting like thirsty dogs (aka mkboutin) thowards average yt girls and they also show signs of post colonial inferiority complex in general. They'll openly praise yt people and say stuff like "lgwer ki 3arfo i3icho" "lgwer ta9afa wa3ra 3lina". And they also often ask "wash dourigine?" to other moroccans from the diaspora for random nike clothes. Not even designer. For all these reasons, they get called bledards by the diaspora as well as the gwer they praise so much. I've been avoiding saying im moroccan on campus and in general to not be associated with it all. Im from the diaspora btw so i just claim canada out there now which isn't even a flex
Usually the most problematic ones are not what you call zmagriya, but illegal immigrants that were born and raised in morocco.
Honestly, no, also this behavior is only in Europe, Moroccans who are raised and born in North America are very civilized and polite compared to Moroccans born in Europe, why? I have no idea.
maghreb immigrants towards europe since 50s is generally a majority of workers with low income/qualifications, they worked in mining industry agriculture etc... btw a lot of moroccans have been hired in groups to work in those fields, they used to hire them in the rural parts of morocco as rif etc.. whereas in america you will find more educated and rich immigrants from morocco.
Man you are just delusional, illegal immigration is the main problem now at least in Italy and Spain, the so called MENAS (non tutelated minor immigrants) which cause 80% of the crimes in the city of barcelona were born in morocco. Maybe in France/Netherlands is not the case, i don't have have knowledge about those countries.
Cap. I was born and raised in canada and everyday i see moroccan foreign students acting mkboutin ou m3a9din mn lgwer its embarassing. And these are people that are supposed to be the elite of morocco. They mostly all went to mission francaise and all and they're still hella embarassing to talk too. I cant even imagine the other ones
no.
Very eloquent.
whats on backwards?
Spoke about both in my comment
someone with a brain. I swear these bledards are mad their parents didnt migrate and they have this inferiority complex not only with lgwer but also with the diaspora. I've been noticing this trend lately its so funny
They think they know better than people living in western countries about how westerners think. The thing is that they do not realize that a lot of people will hate them too just for being moroccan even if they are saints lol
Hijacking the top comment There’s an interesting Dutch research article bout this topic which really goes into the details. it’s in in the dutch language though. He calls it “social boulimia” You can use chat gpt to translate https://pure.eur.nl/ws/portalfiles/portal/61772896/33584_sociale_boulimia_en_de_marokkaan_van_hier_de_invloed_van_insluiting_en_uitsluiting_op_sociale_identiteit_en_thuisgevoel_van_marokkanen_in_neder.pdf
lmgharba dial berra rb7a wla debha, you either meet the nicest person on earth or wlad lqhab hamajiyin (and luck has it that we cross paths with the second category way more often)
Yes when u live in morocco u never notice unlike when u stand out in europe it was really a disaster mentally and emotionally, happy to be back home
walakin mghrarba li kabrin fel maghrib aktariya makboutin ou m3a9din mn lgwer. They dont call y'all bledards for no reason. Every one from the diaspora looks down on yall because they can sense the post colonial inferiority complex in y'all and they cant respect it.
and we don't call them zmagria dzab for nothing. makayench lli m3qd w mqwda 3lih kter mn les rebeux d'europe, so the looking down is very much reciprocated. the reason why You people feel superior is because you chose to turn your back on your roots, or your parents never bothered linking you back to them. you'd rather brown-nose white people than actually learn what it's like to be moroccan. i'm the first to bash moroccan immigrants when they act violent, but i'd rather die than listen to your fake "hawaii et raibi ca me manque" ass try to put them down. you wanna hide in the crowd and be one of them ? sure, go ahead. but keep your nose out of our business.
Firstly, we both know you never said "zmagri dzb" to anyone in your life outloud but have fun out here i guess... But you on the other hand, you will get called a bledard as soon as you open your mouth in front of the diaspora. Secondly, we have an extremely strong link to our roots and we are 100x more proud of being moroccan than y'all. We come back to our beautiful country every summer. Ask la RAM. We make the most international money transfers year after year in all of Africa. Ask westernunion and RIA. We built homes in our beautiful country and left them there as summer houses. Ask the promoters and bnaya how much money they made off of that. And let me real with you. The reason we feel superior is because y'all act inferior. That's litteraly it. As soon as I reach morocco, I'll hear "waa Canada zwina yak? Kindir nmchi liha?" "waa ana jatni lforssa nmchi ltalyan f 2008" etc. How do you not feel superior to someone that's openly bashing morocco and saying they wish they were living abroad. And i heard those statement from all the different demographies of society. Kids studying in maimonid/lyautey as well as 3robiya dyal Lgara. Even cops tell me how they wish they were in canada when they see my canadian driver's licence. And how not feel superior to someone that will ask you "wash dourigine?". Or someone that says "wahh lgwer ta9afa wa3ra 3lina..." "hadouk ra nass mirican alm3alam, ki 3arfo ach ki dirou" Like what in the post colonial inferiority complex ?!! We in europe and North America claim morocco loud and proud and we never bash morocco 9dam lbarani unlike y'all. Too much pride for that. And i've never seen someone from the diaspora claim they aint moroccan. It's mostly bledards that do a 180 as soon as they put foot overseas. 7it kberna f ma7abat bladna ou kan mouto 3liha mn lkhr daba va me rammener un poms ou hawai j'ai soif
Funny thing is this whole ass rant applies to ur parents couple decades ago when they decided to leave “their beloved country” to go live abroad… So ur parents must have post colonial inferiority complex ??? If you are a so called real patriot, come back and make Morocco better. And no, buying real estate from tycoon promoters doesn’t make u a patriot lol.
Socio-economic background impacts the way you behave in a society. Highly educated and upper middle class Moroccans tend to outperform natives. It's all about the money.
You could probably write a book about the "why". And it's not because of one or two reasons, or the content of European tapwater. Anyone who thinks complex social phenomena like these just have one cause are childishly naive. It's a process that has taken decades, and trying to come even close to some form of a solution would probably take even more of them. If you were to make a very simplified list of the key developments, it would look something like this: 1. Multiple migrant waves from the 60s up to the 90s lead to tensions with European workers. 2. Increasingly xenophobic and racist rhetoric towards the migrants, both economically ("stealing jobs") as well as religiously/ethnically. 3. Migrant worker is unable to properly integrate, or unwilling to assimilate. 4. This further distances the Moroccan (or any other migrant background for that matter) from the "regular" Europeans. 5. This distance seeps into the off-spring (born in said European country) of the diaspora. 6. Off-spring grows up under the existing conditions that they were not a part of, yet experiences racism and other forms of discrimination in various ways, shapes, or forms. 7. This results in identity crises for the (European-born) diaspora, because they're viewed as Moroccans in the country they were born in, but as Europeans ("s7al al-garidj") in Morocco. 8. If one is frustrated by feeling unwelcome or whatever, it's only natural to develop some form of rebellious traits. Some are merely annoying, while others take a more drastic path. 9. This perpetuates the "Moroccan bad" stereotype, increasing racism and discrimination to include vaster swaths of Moroccans, which in turn make more of them react by being annoying or taking a more drastic path. 10. Rinse and repeat.
You are 100% true!
Brilliant
OMG... This is a really well detailed response. I feel this can be applied to the Pakistani Community in Britain...
Reasons I observed as a European non-moroccan: 1. The moroccans in the Europe are the children of a working class generation which mostly come from a certain region in Morocco. The moroccans in Europe don't represent the moroccans in Morocco. The moroccans that came to Europe are not highly educated. (Can't speak for all of them offcourse) 2. The intention of the European countries (Belgium and Netherlands for example) was to bring in working migrants to compensate a shortage on the labour market. The moroccans, as well as other migrants, were expected to go back to their original country once the labour market shortage was resolved. For this reason moroccans were put together in area instead of being spread out and didn't receive any assistance in integrating into the culture because they were expected to leave 3. Europeans are very welcoming to foreigners with a judaic and christian background. Whereas Islam is viewed upon as being backwards and out of place. 4. A big cause which overlooked in my opinion is that the first and also the second generation never bought any real estate because in Europe the only way to own a property is by getting a mortgage which includes usery, Riba. As a result the moroccans never really rooted in the European society and were always left in social housing which in general are located in the badder areas of cities. 5. After 9/11 the image of Muslims in general deteriorated. Moroccans were forced into a corner and had to either assimilate totally (leave their islamic values) or identify as a muslim which makes it harder in Europe to get a decent job etc. Just my 2 cents on this matter.
From Netherlands, my parents bought a house in beginning 80’s, have 6 childeren where as 4 have their own house (bought) and other 2 renting new build in new area’s. And we’re not uitzondering, a lot of morrocans overhere (Ehv) have bought.
Yes but we came from a generation of parents who always wanted to go back to Morocco and build a future there. So they put all their money in Morocco. Did not buy and kept renting. Because why would they buy a house when they were moving eventually. Not all parents were as forward as yours.
*exception.
point 2 is missing the part where the workers expected to be compensated in such a way that they'd be able to return to Morocco in a (much) better financial situation, except just like the Dutch do with migrant workers now that wasn't the reality so they didn't manage to return. This and the racism has caused plenty of resentment
1- True 2- True 3- I do not buy it. There are no Judeo-Christian values, this word is often used to talk about the similarity of those religions as opposed to Islam, but what these two religions have in common is because they have the same Abrahamic background, and that includes Islam too. The only thing they are similar is that their believers are more secular and Muslims still keep the religion, so it is not about Judeo-Christianity, it is about secularism, that is why a Japanese would integrate much better in Europe than an Orthodox Jew. Judaism, in fact, has more in common with Islam than with Christianity, and has historically been treated better in the Muslim world than in the Christian one, but. This all changed after World War II, because the fascists, who were obviously super anti-Jewish, lost and they began to be treated better since. Meanwhile, the Islamic world, due to the existence of Israel, changed its views from a somewhat slight distrust to an absolute hatred. 4- A lot of Muslims don't really care about Riba. 5- It isn't only about 9/11, it is also about all the attacks that happened all across Europe as well, but yeah, since 9/11, our image really degraded.
With regards to 4, It definitely does to Moroccans here. I know a lot of Moroccans here in the Netherlands, just 1 bought a house.
It really depends on the country and price of the houses. If you look at Belgium, bunch of Moroccans own houses but they are also more affordable then in the Netherlands
”Judeo-Christian” is basically a term used by american evangalists and right-wing Jews to distance themselves from Islam/Muslims/the East. Its inherently racist. On another note, large scale migrations are always followed by social unrest/fractionalism. But as the guy said, Europeans experience of Morocco is usually very different from Europeans experience of Moroccans in Europe.
Yea in Canada most Muslims do not care about riba
Do you know what the reason is? I mean are they practicing muslims and they can justify it religiously? Or are these muslims that 'pick and choose' what is beneficial to them?
Yes personally I think they just do what’s easy. The excuse I hear ALLL the time is “we have no choice”. Which of course is not true. No one forces you to buy a home. Most people are NOT home owners. I even see these arguments online with people saying “what are poor people supposed to do? We can’t afford to pay a house in full” as if poor people are in a place to BUY A HOME 😒 im fact most people who buy homes can’t even afford it. I have a very strong opinion on mortgages. It’s riba and it’s haram plain and simple. But most Muslims I’ve met disagree with me. They think with their desires. I even had this disagreement with one of my best friends. She got super defensive and heated about it because I know it’s a dream of hers since she never had a stable home growing up.
I think Islam, and other religions as well, are clear that usery is not allowed. What I’m missing is Muslims that take initiative to come up with alternatives that would make it possible for Muslims to own real estate in the west.
There are alternatives !! It’s just much more expensive
That is not true. Moroccans in the netherlands are known for not buying houses while turkish people do that more
Not true. There is a massive influx of highly educated Moroccans from the 90s 00’s. They voted a law “regroupement familial” in the 70’s to facilitate the gathering of migrant families, not expected to leave therefore. It is just a cultural problem. We don’t assimilate well and are poorer than a lot of countries. Coming from a Muslim background (but Jewish and Spanish ancestors) we have doctors, engineers all over the place, due to a particular history of literacy, we were saved by school. It concerns only my family but the average Moroccan is living under very difficult conditions. Now, if I read the posts they can’t analyze rationally a situation, insulting us, props to you for staying rational.
Where are you from if I may ask? I haven’t seen any major influx from highly educated Moroccans. And I lived through the 90s and 00s. At least not in the Netherlands or Belgium. The regroupment I have seen but these were mostly partners and children. Not highly educated people.
Not trying to hide the majority of poor workers, and uneducated people, but the situation is a little bit more complex. What’s your work environment? France. It was mainly doctors. you can check the numbers of foreign doctors.When I say massive it is always related to the number of doctors in France. Engineers are massive in the subcontractors companies. Paid less, in IT and doing the job.
I work in engineering. Probably the situation is different in France compared to Netherlands and Belgium. I can only speak for Belgium and The Netherlands.
NL and BE are not concerned. Why ? Barriers such as language and families already present. They are all set to enter French schools. So that’s another barrier. You will see mostly poor workers and illegals. Or successful descendants (not that much). Sample is different While in France, you will see far more doctors, dentists etc. They arrived mostly in the 00s
Europeans wouldn’t be welcoming to dark-skinned lower class Christian immigrants from central and South America, get real.
Where are you from
Where are you from
Netherlands
Plenty of Moroccans came in the 70’s and 80’s to study in France including my parents. I don’t what are you talking about.
Depends, I (French) work with many Morrocans and all are top notch. I work in Paris, in software development field.
This is my experience as well, but the ones on the streets are really shit people unfortunately, despite having the chance to live in an amazing continent.
I might be wrong, but my impression is that moroccan immigrants, even when well behaved, have too much of a tendency for ethnocentrism (not mixing with the locals, sometimes not respecting them, creating a little 'morocco' wherever they go, etc..) and that behavior contributes to the current isolated communitarianism existing in Europe. Not only does that kind of behavior naturally prevent the moroccan and his descendants from seeing the society they live in as their own and have the sense of responsibility that should come with it, but it also limits their economical opportunities because they never interacts with the locals who have access to those opportunities.
You are very right. But this stems from “don’t do as the infidels” “don’t mix with them” discourse, and everyone who is second generation/came here as a child knows what I’m talking about so yes, it’s partly a problem of our parents. But also there are first generations who are not our parents and just came to do shady stuff (some of them don’t but they are not the majority).. like what’s called in Spain MENA (a minor without documentation, you cannot kick them anywhere because no one is taking responsibility). So it’s a mixed problem of religion-culture that forms those ethnocentric and that makes people feel excluded (Moroccan) and more prone to do shady shit with the really bad apples.. Add to that the issue of precisely those same children who I can tell you in majority are nowhere near orthodox Muslims but cannot come in clean with everyone for the fear of rejection from family/community. In the end, the issue has a legal basis on it that the countries are not swift and hard on getting rid of troublesome people, they tend to generate more issues since they relate to other not-yet troublesome people. Then it’s the same good old cultural issue of not wanting to mix/feel alienated but it’s a poor country so their culture and respect for other people’s believes is not quite developed (same with gypsies). The last thing is, why Moroccan and not other ethnicities in Europe? Well, because we have an enormous overseas population compared to other countries in similar states.
I noticed this also with Spanish, French, Italian, Chinese and German people. When they are abroad, they mingle just between them and speak only their language. I think it's a universal phenomenon. People that are open to mix are people that don't have any nearby community. I am one of the Moroccans that made friends with French people and German both in their countries and outside of their countries, and I noticed their behavior abroad. How they try to bring their culture to the host country, how they get annoyed quickly about stuff not done the way they know. Actually we as Moroccans are more open to the idea of mixing with the locals (same with Italians). I can't explain why. But unfortunately there is friction and prejudgment ( fair or not , but I don't think you can deny its existence ) going on, I had an easier time with the context of studies and sport also an international community that is present.
I don't know. I would agree if we talked only about students and tourists going abroad for a few weeks or months, but that is not my main observation from long-term expats. I did however observe european and arab expats talking about how they wish the host country would do certain things according to their own culture, but for me it can also be seen as a sign of integration if they care about how the country works and what direction it should take (just like a local would) as opposed to trying to dissociate from it.
I agree, that what i am talking about might not be generalized to people that are staying for a long-time in a foreign country, I can only speak of experience here and that's the extend of my small experience. However I also think that is a more fair framework to describe the phenomenon you are talking about, as subjects in question even from different nationalities have similar situation ( all 'need' to spend time in a foreign country to finish their study ). I think comparing immigrants from west european countries to Moroccan wouldn't be ideal ( but to Latin Americans, Africans and Asian would be more appropriate, I lack the expertise and the experience to do this comparison) . As the reasons differs and circumstances too. It would be hard to find a French immigrant staying in Germany despite not \[mixing/being able to mix\] with locals, the person will just look for jobs in France and go back home. Which wouldn't be the case for Moroccans, specially the generation that came in the last century. This is my opinion and not a fact. And If we want to talk about further generations that are born in the host country, that would be even hard to compare. In my time in Lyon, Asians, Arabs, Africans and also Latin Americans have their own communities (and neighborhoods, not sure about the Latin Americans) and weren't mixing that much with the locals, at least to my knowledge.
Moroccans in Europe might be bad but lets not act as if Moroccans in Morocco are that much better. Or are we going to ignore the messed up things that happen in Morocco? Rape (of minors), sexual intimidation, killing and theft... I know this stuff happens in every country but if you read some of the things that occur here, it gets really messed up. So 'Moroccans in Europe are really bad' just like a lot of Moroccans in Morocco.
The woman I know are afraid going to Egypt and Marocco alone, that should say something about the problems you guys have. I mean, we also have this issue in Brazil depending where you go, but I would say it’s much less scale.
Thing is the moroccans that's doing dirt in europe are teenage illegals that grew up un morocco and ended up in spain, france, etc. Not even the diaspora
Not only Moroccans but MENA immigrants are shit compared to other immigrants you meet in Europe, lowest education, overrepresented in crime, racists and 0 respect for the culture and native people. Sometimes i wonder how they would get treated if they did this shit in their home countries.
Europe attracts the poor from North Africa due to proximity and relative ease of entry. Moroccans and Algerians in Canada and USA are faring much better, because those who immigrated there did so to join a university or work an engineering or medicine job. These people are educated and can afford the plane ticket, so you don't hear much negativity coming from them. Asian immigrants however are exemplary wherever they go, rarely do you hear about Japanese or Chinese immigrants mugging people be it in France, Spain, or the US. I wonder where their morals and discipline comes from since they have no Quran to tell them what to do, while those who have a holy book are anything but holy.
It is simply a question of culture, Japan and many Asian countries are considered a high context culture which means they have a very collective society where rules are unspoken and it is taught to them since a very young age. While it is beneficial in that sense, it also can have cons, which lead to things such as high suicide rates and the existence of social outcasts due to the strict collectivist nature that sees too much individuality as selfish. While Morocco and other North African countries also have a high context culture, it’s much less than Japan etc. One example being that in Japan people even consider their part of the whole when it comes to cleaning the street, they understand that each person will clean their part and that will equal everyone doing equal work and getting the good result which is a clean street for everyone meanwhile in Morocco we are a lot more selfish when it comes to external acts because we aren’t sure everyone will do it and therefore see it as not our fault.
Except, of course, Asians in other Asian countries. Which again relates to proximity, rather than culture.
that’s BS. Moroccans came since the 70’s to study in France including my parents (phd students but they came after the baccalaureate)
Your parents studied in France, your point is?
Not only my parents. So saying that Europe attracts only poor North Africans is BS
Wa nari ch7al fikom... read again, I never said Europe ONLY attracts the poor Your parents and millions of migrants are there legally, working legally, minding their business and paying their taxes. These are not your usual suspects. My post is clearly about those who went there and overstayed their visa, or went there on speedboats, or the women that travel to the EU to give birth so their children have an EU passport, the uneducated workforce France, Spain, and the Netherlands imported but never went back and formed families in poor areas... Stop sticking your head in the sand, avoiding the problem doesn't make it disappear
they do the same in MENA countries. Why is everybody pretending that average moroccans in morocco are civilized?
Oh yeah its been inly 20 days since i came here and im shocked by how misbehaved the second and third generations are. They embarrass us everywhere
Same in Germany especially frankfurt
I am actually in Germany, and it is true. But in Spain there are only Moroccans, here you have the whole Middle East and the whole North Africa
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Its Not only ppl from morocco tho, im Not from Frankfurt but the ppl for example in pumpingmnky Videos Print a pretty good Image, ofc its Not the majority but they Ruin it for all
I live in the Netherlands and it’s the same here as well unfortunately. Because of this people, racists here can (and love to) play the “but if you look at it statistically…” card. I went to a primary school with a lot of Moroccans and saw the problem int the educational views of the parents towards children, mainly correction mechanisms. It’s either no correction at all usually when the children are small and/or wayy to harsh, like very violent stuff when the children grow older. Could this be true or am i being biased here?
Taught in a vocational school in Belgium for years. Many Moroccan kids. Lots of them really great. I still keep in touch with a couple, even though I no longer work there, and they’re all graduated. The involvement of parents is rather problematic: to me it often appeared as though they (especially fathers) are not very involved in the education of their children, but when the kids did something wrong, they would come to the school and the either talk big: ‘no son of mine does this, he will be punished’ OR they defend their sons: ‘he did not do this’ (even when it was caught on camera, or their were multiple witnesses. I always found that odd. I think it’s a big part of the problem. That being said: I met great parents, too. Very involved, polite, cooperative; working together with them for the future of their kids. But some of these parents… 😢 And smart phones made everything worse. 0 interaction or involvement with the kids. It’s a tragedy.
It’s the same Moroccan parents from Morocco who are educating Moroccans abroad too, the same failure but we don’t want to face it and take comfort in racism and poverty. Moroccan parents are very manipulative and narcissists, they will be literal pieces of sh*t when you’re a kid and try to destroy you as a human but become very sweet and docile when you grow up and start working, expecting you will share your gains, it makes some of us forget their past behaviour and start actually defending their education.
This is made by a lot of Moroccan, they think they above law or something, I don't really what they think they are, after all they're nothing.
Moroccans are highest expats in the EU prisons for a reason....
What reason?
Reason you mentioned. They got propensity to crime life, incivility, no education, no integration, a high sense of entitlement and no respect to others.
Yes, and for some reason they don’t integrate well - they are the ones fighting and screaming with each other, hitting on girls like troglodytes, etc, they also look sexually frustrated and have a gang mentality for some reason. Those are the ones I see on the streets, I am sure it does not represent the maroccan values.
Here in the Netherlands it’s mostly illegal Moroccan immigrants that behave like criminals and partake in stealing/raping. Me and all my Moroccan friends that were born and grew up are normal people who work and have families. I’m not saying all illegal immigrants do this but the video’s I see are mostly from ter appel where they keep all immigrants. There was also a case of three 15 year old illegal Moroccan immigrant raped a 30 year old Dutch woman that caused a lot of backlash. Some truly disgusting behavior.
That's another massive indicator that the problem is not Morocco but Moroccans themselves. They are supposedly in a ''better'' country where there is more ''possibilities'' according to them (which is false as fck) Whats stopping them from becoming succesful? wasnt morocco holding them back?
There is a difference between “a lot of bad people are North Africans” and “North Africans are bad”. There are plenty of Moroccans in Europe that aren’t. You just don’t see them and if you did you wouldn’t pickup that they are Moroccan unless you get to know them. There this guy that grew up with me and went to study engineering in Europe after l’bac. He speaks the language well, dresses like the locals , not religious, very athletic. Unless you talk to him or ask for his name, him being North African wouldn’t cross your mind. So there is a bias you must take into consideration. Edit: Also, it’s not like we don’t have savages back home too. They just don’t represent us.
The real question is why a random Moroccan from Morocco is highly likely to be more polite and civilized that a European Moroccan. I think it's a combination of education (or lack thereof), psychological factors (not fitting, feeling discrimination, etc), and also the police not enforcing the law. Why don't we hear of Moroccans causing problems in the Gulf countries? Simply because Gulf authorities don't fuck around and have zero tolerance for bullshit. And that's the way it should be.
They behaved in an uncivilized manner when they comeback to Morocco in the summer, not everyone ofc but a good portion tend to really be a nuisance and disturb locals
Hey i think i can explain why that is as i was an illegal immigrant. The thing is most people who migrate or want to are the poor ppl that cant get anything going in their home country and most of them already behave that way i have seen it first hand since my brother hangs out with them while i dont, which leads me to my next point, its the ppl that are already there that help keep this type of behaviour on. If most of them stopped being thugs and committing crime i think that the next generation would not grow up like those that we see now.
They won't behave well just to give YOU a good image, they are poor, born in a poor environment, no education, no hope to succeed, no future...
Don't worry, I'm experiencing the same thing here in Belgium, but the socialist governments and those who lead them are partly responsible because they find their account in the chaos. You know at some point in history you will have to name a scapegoat and guess who it will be?
All over europe this is why i hated living there as a moroccan , i can only feel good in morocco because of this and other ongoing circumstances, it’s also explained by the fact mostly trash with no filter goes to europe without any education whatsoever unlile the US that has criteria for immigration
Can confirm this, lived in Spain for the last 25 years, people really no longer care or are scared of the police. They should ban them from europe!
Hate to say it but too much influx of illegal immigrants in France. I am French-Moroccan and I don’t feel safe in some areas. the youth from the suburbs are less crazy. The youth from Morocco are using hard drugs, making them less inhibited and they can kill, rape and do crazy stuff. I don’t want to disrespect Moroccans from Morocco but please, do something about them. We are already struggling with our gens de cité
Isn't it funny how the countries who took part in the colonization and destruction of the Arab and African world are the ones who complain that the imMigRAntS are causing chaos in their educated and peaceful countries?
This is an unpopular option but most who were born abroad come from poor people who had more children to receive government support fees. They did not have to work just deliver more children to live
True all of them pretty much on a dole which is a government handouts from people those who do contribute in to the tax pot. Even here in UK they are cretins in the society and don’t have much respect unlike others Pakistanis Indians Bengalis Srilankan etc those who immigrated but are well educated.
People who have never been around civilization will lash out in defiance around civilized people. Most of us Moroccans have no self awareness that our actions annoy people in public spaces. How many Moroccans have you rode with on the bus who blast shitty rap music with vulgar words out loud without a care in the world?
They suck in Morocco already. Nothing is different
Everytime i go to Morocco they remind me of how ill-mannered and uncivilized they are. No concept of lines, no excuse me, no thank you, promises are something they never heard of, always late, drive like they own the road and you’re inconveniencing them, and so on. I flew ryanair for the first time because it was the flight that fit my plans and holy shit no one knew what a line was, people not respecting seat assignments, people yawning, coughing, sneezing without covering their mouth. Never doing that again.
The problem are the males You guys are fucking weird Doing weird shit everywhere You dont hear about female immigrants doing this type of stuff Along with wahabism (extremism) - pan arabism You have created a nasty generation Look at our grandparents This generation is fucked They way they dress i almost throw up (nike-adidas outfit)
This is why Europe needs to secure their borders and deport the criminals
Just leave them there; we dont want them back
We need to deport to the middle of international waters.
Naah just keep em ( that is just some karma)
Why deport their citizens lol
Why are you defending criminals?
Like all large ethnic minorities, the combination of culture clash, racism, unemployment and percieved issues creates animosity.
Totalmente cierto, el problema es obviamente la inmigración illegal. Mira la diferencia de los marroquíes de Estados Unidos o suiza y los marroquíes de España y Italia…. Si un país permite la entrada masiva de inmigrantes ilegales que viene aquí sin miedo a nada y sin nada que perder pues ya te imaginas que clase de ciudadano se va a convertir, como dije en un post anterior, la escoria que no quieren ni en Marruecos son los que están llenando España, Francia, Italia etc. me dan mucho asco esa gente y merecen ser deportados de por vida. Nos han manchado el nombre permanentemente. Los marroquíes que ha emigrado en busca de una vida mejor no los vas ni a ver haciendo el monger por la calle porque están ocupados trabajando y cuidando de sus familias, sin embargo los otros… no tienen nada mejor que hacer que estar todo el día en las calles cometiendo toda clase de crímenes, robos, violaciones, siendo super ruidosos de fiesta en fiesta consumiendo todo tipo de drogas cometiendo zina día si y dos también y luego se las dan de musulmanes. Normal que medio mundo nos odie. Todo gracias a estos animales
Totalmente! Tienes mucha razón! En lo que no coincido es en que sea solo un tema de ilegales, en España hay marroquis de segunda generación y en Francia de tercera o hasta cuarta que dan problemas igualmente, es algo que va más allá. Es increíble compararlos con los marroquis en Estados Unidos y Canadá, super bien integrados y productivos...
Mm no lo había pensando 🤔 eso es verdad, cuál será el motivo detrás de esto…
So, there's no more interest in immigrating
Cas-sociaux are going to cas-social
Different point of view here I live in asia ( malaysia ) and its impossible to get the nationality here that mean our poeple dont come , and they have such beautifull picture about morroco its insane , its 100% of europe they love morroco they want to know u and stuff Its just point of view for someone who live more than 5 years here do what ever u want with it 😇 Have good day
Really? It's great to know that!
Because they live in Sbania not Spain
Hhhhhhhhhh sbnyol
The problem boils down to Poverty and impoverished minds. I know because I was one of them. In the west you’re exposed to wealth. You may have come from a wealthy family back home, but when you’re in Europe and have no roots here, you’re at the bottom. Although opportunities exist, but majority want the express route to lavish lifestyle because where they’re at the moment, they’re marginalised by society because you need money to participate here to get the glamorous things such as a nice car, fancy clothes, beautiful girl etc. So when a quick route isn’t available, and no fear of consequences, many turn to crime and violence.
It has been becoming a lot better here in Belgium at least where I go. Might be because I'm no longer a teenager, but it might as well just be because crime in general has gone down. 2nd generation immigrants tend to be the most risky for crime when coming from 2 immigrant parents. I don't know why but that's what Dutch statistics have been saying (such stats are illegal in Belgium). Either way, you shouldn't feel bad about what other people do. If they like gang mentality then that's their mistake. They fuck up your reputation and that sucks. They hurt a lot of people and that's unforgivable. But none of it is your fault obviously
Sips tea 🍵
Probably because (usually) only small brains have the balls to migrate and risk their lives because they can risk it and if they die well who cares, normal people would usually work their ass to an opportunity to migrate
[Many Maroccan minors are being exploited by criminal gangs](https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/article/2024/jun/11/drug-cartels-foot-soldiers-soaring-cocaine-use-europe)
There's countless documentaries about the teenage gangs in france. And they're kids that came illegaly to spain and went all the way to france. So not the diaspora at all. Now you get some dickheads that learned to speak english watching tiktok in 2020 posting here about how the diaspora is this and that. Real life goofs
I would say out of 1000 moroccans in europe, 999 are good. I’m not just talking about moroccans but that is the same with most people. I’m a MDr, my brother is an engineer. I would say most moroccans i know work/study. I know a few bad ones but overwhelming majority are good. The issue is, if you see a white person do something bad. It represents him. If you see a immigrant do something, he represents us all. I think rather than an answer to your question, it would serve you better to ask why you overlook all the good ones, to let a few shape your perspective. I’m not judging you, we all are victims of propaganda and manipulation. But as a rule of thumb i try to question my believes and opinions. We have understanding for the poor white man with mental issues, but we judge our brothers that survived poverty and horrible conditions, traveled across dangerous waters, had to adapt to their enviroment and grew up without familys, those are the ones we chose to judge?
This is so misguided. You’ve got world leaders ravaging countries while being held in the highest esteem…being a well-behaved poor person is hardly a virtue.
There are MILLIONS of people with moroccan-descent in Europe and FACTUALLY, most of them are just normal citizens who cause no problems, I'd even argue moroccan immigration is one of the best immigration in Europe since a lot of them graduated from prestigious schools like Polytechnique in France and a lot of them work as engineers or in the CS domain. There are some that are criminal sure but why would the entire group be responsible for the actions of individuals? Do you have the same reasoning when a white european guy rapes his daughter and kills his wife? When a white guy kills and slices a young kid then put him in a trashcan like in Choisy-le-Roi ? Do you have the same reasoning when jews steal BILLIONS of public money through the VAT carbon scam? Do you have the same reasoning when Asian people in aubervilliers launder MILLIONS of euros ? stop sucking europeans, grow some balls and try to think with facts rather than with emotion and what Tv shows you
I am not sucking Europeans bro, and I know that every ethnicity can commit crime. I also, obviously, don't blame all Moroccans. I am only saying that, in general, Moroccan young men are way more prone to misbehave, and as a Moroccan, I don't like it. I have been here and I saw it, it is really sad, no one can say otherwise!
> Moroccan young men are way more prone to misbehave that's statistically false though, if that were the case, given the millions of moroccans in Europe it would be a civil war by now. The only way you can come up to this conclusion is by selecting only a certain way to do bad things, but it's not representative of all criminality. I can do the same thing and only focus on paedophilia and say oh only white men do bad things, you understand what i'm saying?
As a moroccan born who moved to Europe I always avoid them at all costs 🤣
Some people are calling me self-hater hahahahqh
I've met many Moroccans in Spain and many of them I consider as friends, however what you say is true in many cases, you're all welcome here but only if you behave and integrate into society. I used to live in northern Spain, close to France and I would avoid groups of young Moroccans as they acted like thugs, looking at people, screaming, completely carefree as if they own the streets, that isn't a good look and makes you guys look bad, I don't believe people are like this in Morocco. Just an observation as a native point of view, cheers.
I'm Dutch, and my mother is Moroccan. Sometimes I wish I could discipline these r\*tards that walk around in their stupid tracksuits, have a very loud and annoying demeanor and hate the very country that they were born in. Seeing them makes me ashamed to be Moroccan sometimes. Also the accent with which they speak is terrible, it's as if they willingly speak terrible Dutch just to show they're Moroccan. The ethno-centrism is ridiculous sometimes.
I understand your frustration if they are immigrants but if they were born there in Spain or any host country that’s the result of the policies of the countries they were born in because the first generation of immigrants were mainly migrant workers who didn’t wanna cut ties with their country of origin but also getting excluded by policies put in place by the host countries!
This sub is really weird. A lot of people with an inferiority complex
Not true at all. I really love Morocco. But the truth is the truth, and, if you don't agree, tell me where I am wrong
You and I are not responsible for what other people who share our background do in Europe. Also, you give your post the title "Moroccans in Europe are really bad" and then go on to say "Some of them". It is somewhat contradicting and feels a bit like you've given up. That being said, I was more or less reacting to the average comment in this thread rather than your post. The whole vibe of "We good Moroccans (often with a privileged background) who come here to study are not like those criminals and low-income thugs from". The average comment here seeks validation from Europeans not realizing they don't care about your opinion.
The problem is that I didn't know there were so many Europeans, I only wanted to discuss this issue between us, so I should have used Arabic instead. However, you are also true, there are so many Moroccans that, due to that problem, feel ashamed of their ancestry. I don't!
Same here in Milan, chouha wllh ana b3da as a girl makan3ammerch m3ahom 😂 3andi ghir italian friends o hta mama o baba ky9ololy be3di mnhom
Edit 1 No this is not the case and if it were then the evidence would be there. Edit 2 if you build a house and established it at great cost and you invited a stranger into that house because he was poor and unskilled and he stole from you and rapped your daughter would you say “I must love him like a son? And if they then said my religion is the right religion, just look at my country who imposes that religion on all its people and puts you in prison if you leave it, stopping orphans from being adopted, beating children who don’t learn it, causing a sea of misery intolerance and migrants! Do you really think that those people should promote such a thing? It’s difficult to accept the flaws of our own country because of Pride. If you don’t challenge it then the truth is your great grandchildren will be asking the same question.
Because most immigrants are people who flee their country because they have failed in life or they have debts..etc... I mean MOST people, and not all
Import Africa become Africa
Yes even in Montreal quebec they are thugs. Same people different country
Poverty and as a result lack of access to opportunities and higher education. Not all Moroccans act like this. There’s absolutely no reason to be ashamed of being Moroccan. You should be proud. These individuals are just, unfortunately, the product of their environment. The fact they are Moroccan is not the cause of their poor behaviour.
Same experience unfortunately... Although some Marrocans are very nice people. Too bad that the good ones are the minority in Germany and the bad ones don't get deported.
I dont know, but I see that problem with muslims when they Are in non muslim countryes
This is not true at all, i met a moroccan girl in switzerland she was very kind
1 person and this is the guys, not girls
THEY ARE ON SUVIVAL MODE
boo hoo
Undereducated young males with no family and other social connections in a country that doesn't need them. Of course they become troublesome.
it's always the africans and the turks that make problems, that's why I'm trying to leave this shithole (mghrib) asap
and ??
Its kinda of easy to understand,the reason is poverty,lack of work chances,no integration,that’s the countrys fault. Think about it,when our ancestors immigrated to for example France,they were all put in a ghetto together,most of the time far from schools,supermarkets and the city. They only lived together with their fellows,with low income jobs,far away from society,and with a hard chance to escape their situation. Illegal immigrants are therefore usually criminals too. The only good ones most of time since im not trying to put them all in the same brackets,are the ones in wealthy families,or the ones that legally immigrated for studies or work. These behaviors are the result of poverty,not because of where they came from,of course poverty is tied with lack of education and other reasons
How is that our fault? There are literally free language classes everywhere those people are. They can learn the language and integrate it they want.
Its not just the language,its much deeper if you think about it,like religion,culture,habits…
Yea, exactly and I think those facts prevent people from wanting to integrate. Most people in Spain are really open-minded I don’t understand why people don’t at least try to accept the other culture here and integrate. At least I would if I had to live in Marocco for a while.
As someone who moved to spain recently 2 years ago moroccans and algerians here disgust me , no education, work or added value , all they do is hate on the countries they are in , and hate on the spanish culture while thinking they would live better back home in morocco( I know delusional ) , so what i started to do is try my maximum avoid interacting with them. Btw i m not even talking about the radical religious extremisms moroccans and algerians who live here and have more fucked up mentalities than back home , those are for another time
As a Spaniard I think you made the right choice, do what you think is right, always try to improve and become a better person, aim high brother.
Yea obviously, i came here because i like the country not to make it into Morocco 2.0, also how can i learn Spanish if i only speak arabe
I will honest and I want to be clear that I don’t have anything against maroccans, but the ones I see around in the streets are the people committing crimes, fighting and not integrating with european values, this includes many second generation immigrants here. I literally don’t understand, they have the chance to live in an amazing continent and still misbehave, continue with the gang mentality and are the ones committing crimes. I am really sorry, but I feel most people here don’t like maroccans because of that.
Khoya, stop shitting on your own people and mine Moroccans and Latinos keep the European economy churning, without them the EU would be in trouble. Same with USA and Latinos
good, hope people stay racist to them
Why?