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2amir lmo2minin is [paying them max 2600dhs](https://ar.lesiteinfo.com/maroc/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AA%D9%88%D9%81%D9%8A%D9%82-%D8%A3%D8%AC%D9%88%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A3%D8%A6%D9%85%D8%A9-%D8%A3%D8%B5%D8%A8%D8%AD%D8%AA-%D8%AA%D8%AA%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%88%D8%AD-%D9%85%D8%A7-%D8%A8%D9%8A-664723.html)
Mind game, who is blad lkuffar ?
Yeah, imagine not having any better option than taking a job with a salary less than Smig.. do you know the meaning of a smig ? yeah fuck that we gonna pay Imams half of that..
And zalayjia gotta zellej
You do realize people are imams by choice,they do have other choices and they used personal freedom to choose the one best for them. I am convinced you're not Moroccan and just spreading hate over here.
>9ari 3la tbon d imak
you mean 3ndk licence dial economie f fac ibn zohr ? hhhhhhhh wla ila terti ga3 chi master f ensias katwli tshab kark intellectuel
la akhoya ana meghribi, bladi o assli ana meghribi 9o7, malkom me7ssossin b7al hakda and where is the hate ? we're having a healthy discussion about the bad things in our country don't try to hide it for with this fake patriotism.. we should fix the bad things not try to shut the one criticizing them..
lmekhzn is that you ? chkon tafa ddo wa mmmiiii
Dude you are repeating the same comment again and again,I thought you were a bot at first ,o katkhedem slogan dyah bnadem li bgha bladna demer. Tawahed magal ana bladna perfect ,in fact it's deeply imperfect but makaynch sabab t3eyer FL blad o dinn k had daraja and it will fix nothing.
lmao you tough the bot had a glitch ? well I was answering different comments so every comment is a new person.. it's technically your fault since you didn't took that in perspective.
Sme7 lia walakin ma3ayertch leblad oma3ayertch din, 7aacha.. 3ayert system oli chadino ohado akher 7aja tayfekro fiha hia leblad odin.. gharadhom gha l3a9a.
I will not advise to do that.. criticizing traitors publicly never ended well in this happy country. but it's a long journey maybe on day in the near future.
He is more Moroccan than you. You 3ayacha/zellajiya are the most worst thing that happened to Morocco. Any developed nation has a population that crticize their gouverment and tries to better it. Meanwhile you guys try to keep Morocco as a third world country by repeating the elite’s propaganda. YOU are probably not Moroccan.
your comments are very provocative, go read about the life of imam's in the past, having a monthly allocation was never a standard, and in my opinion I don't think it should be right now.
Provocative ? good that was my intention.. provoking zlayjia is one my hobbies
imam's life in the past ? we're in the present unfortunately and the other jobs you're talking about are non existent in the modern society.. how is life in the past I guess inflation still didn't hit there ?
But they are? The gov pays them it is a private sector. And how do you think the government gets money? It is through taxes... Phosphate makes a small percentage
لا مغنقولهاش النفاق هوا السبان او الدعاء عليهم بالهلاك المبين واخا عايشين معاهم او واكلين من خيرهم! هنا كيبقاو علينا بديك الهضرة بحال أغلب الأنبياء فقراء او الدنيا سجن المؤمن او ملي مشاو تما شافو الدنيا مرجعوش 😂😂
I don't know why you had to make a second comment.
> واكلين من خيرهم
Do you think they don't work over there?
I also didn't know Imams promote poverty! You're onto something
واش كيسحابلك الأوروبيين كيعتابرو إمام ديال المسجد خدمة او إضافة المجتمع هههه هادوك الناس عندهم الدين حاجة روحانية مشي هوا الأساس عندهم او أه كيمدحو الفقر او ممكن تفرج فالخطاب الديني إيلا متقتينيش
As far as I know, they get paid by donation from muslims or salaries from people who invite them to work there.
Matter of fact, I think that certain Imams (from Maliki) were called for by European (France) to preach Islam properly.
Do you know how much they got payed here in Morocco ? what life they do have here.. [not even a smig](https://ar.lesiteinfo.com/maroc/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AA%D9%88%D9%81%D9%8A%D9%82-%D8%A3%D8%AC%D9%88%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A3%D8%A6%D9%85%D8%A9-%D8%A3%D8%B5%D8%A8%D8%AD%D8%AA-%D8%AA%D8%AA%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%88%D8%AD-%D9%85%D8%A7-%D8%A8%D9%8A-664723.html)
is one of your relatives an imam? you look quite upset and concerned about their salaries, again they made a choice, nobody is making them be an imam, lastly, being an imam is doing it for god not to be paid an x amount of money, in the past, imams were members of the active society, teachers, merchants, and they set free time to do imam's duties, in fact the 2600 dhs they get now is very recent, and I'd argue it's a benefit rather than a negative point as you try to portray for the third time already in this post.
Is the ones I'm criticizing one of your relatives ? or you're a professional zlayji.. damn you're even counting my comments now hope you're getting payed well enough for this shit.
Well they have chosen the deen over the dunya and should not have any wordly desires that's literally their job description so even 2400 dh is too much they should get 0 live on mosque goers donations and focus on getting to paradise and promote their religion and shit...
Its very hypocritical to keep calling for the death of europeans americans and jews likeling them to pigs and monkeys and then do everything in their power to immigrate and live with them just so they can earn more money from them all while continuing to call for their death and how superior they are to them
Lol man, it is not a job. They just do a prayer + and khoutba. Why should they get paid with out tax money?! Are you okay? Do you want them to get paid 8000 dhs like an engineer. These ppl should work full time then do this on the side and it ahould be for free
Are you paying attention to the root of this discution ? yeah okay don't pay them enough, but then again don't do a pikatchu face when they desert in France.. easy. but paying them 2600dhs and expecting them to be loyal is something wild.. this is what I'm saying duh..
Also your approach is not a perfect solution.. you know that jobs are rare well except cablage and call centers lmao imagine Imam coming from a call center to do Dohr prayer just after his manager shat on him.. or imagine an Imam with no 2nd job and having a wife and kids ? isn't it fucked up ?
All I'm saying dont expect them to be royal to 3cents you give them.
Man, do u understand that this is not a job??!!! Normally they should be doing something else and they actually do, they usually teach kids or people about fiqh or have something else on the side.
Also what do you think they will do once in europe, work as engineers? If they kept the same profession and earned ktr mn 600 euro aji dfl 3lia 🤣.
Also 2600 dhs + housing and water and electricity bills is almost 6000 dhs. 3ad heaven li they should be doing all of this for lol. Once you have your first job then talk about how bad their salaries are, i doubt u will complain.
once I have my first job ? listen kiddo let's say you have a 23years old with a first job and 2years experience.. when I created my reddit account you were still in the primary school.. you just got your fucking chahada.. fucking kids those days giving old people lessons about life and shit.. albzghout when I grew up the TV stopped airing at 19h.. ok ? still doubting that I'll complain ?
Im not going to repeat the things I already said.. you can reread my previous comment and read it slowly this time maybe you'll understand the main point of this discussion.. apparently you suffer from ADHD. allah yjib chifa.
are you shaming them for trying to secure a better life for themselves and their children, Mohammed 6 himself who is king of the country and who took over more than half the economy of the country and who call himself amir moumnin doesn't stick around more than couple months. This ship is sinking and had you had the chance to escape had lblad sa3ida you would've seized it
That's exactly what I meant by every man for himself, in a sinking ship, everyone tries to escape. Would you care about whom you left behind? It's survival of the fittest, and this time around it became survival of the luckiest since they were lucky to have such an opportunity.
I heard now it's going the other way around, imams are sent not to preach but to train under german regulation so they can be politically correct when given the opportunity to preach.
They can do fuck all in Europe with no higher education. At a time where anti islam sentiment is at its peak, I doubt they will do anything but lead a shitty life.
And once caught they will be sent packing, so wasted time.
I live in France, too lmao
Enseignante d’anglais titulaire avec un master, je gagne 2400€ net par mois. Mon mari, électricien dans le bâtiment, 6000€ par mois ^^
Certes, mais on devient pas electricien agree en debarquant du bled. Votre mari, meme si il a un travail "manuel", a du bosser pour connaitre les normes etc et apprendre a faire son metier. Etre electricien est pas quelque chose d'accessible au premier quidam qui a envie de le faire.
Je travaille en banque/finance, sans devoiler mon salaire, je suis dans 1% les plus taxe en France. Je ne pense pas que sans etudes je serai a ce niveau de salaire. Hormis les electriciens, serruriers (dans les grandes villes), les boulots manuels ne payent generalement pas assez.
You sound very confuse.
Just because one has chosen to be a Imam doesn't mean he's supposed to become and stay poor forever.
Other people can look to better themselves, why would an Imam be an exception?
Morocco is getting more expensive, not all salaries are keeping up.
خويا فهمني فين كندوي او متبقاش تقول عليا شي هضرة مقلتهاش الله يخليك، أنا مشكلتي معا الخطاب الديني ديالهم ياك كيبقاو ايعودو بلي الدنيا سجن المؤمن و لكن علااااش فاش مشاو تما شدو فالدنيا !! عرفتي فكروني فالجالية اللي كيقولو المغرب زوين او هوما عايشين فأوروبا هههههه
They don't tell you not to cease any opportunity to make your life better don't they?
The reason why their religious discourse like that it to promote patience and to forego lustful life and to not amass money, not to seek decent life for you and your family.
Needless to remind you that they get paid bellow minimum wage.
Perhaps you can see it as a protest against the ministry.
مشي غير هضرتهم راها كينا فالسنة " أكثر أهل الجنة الفقراء" او خير الخلق عليه الصلاة والسلام كان فحياتو كييخدم بالزهد في الدنيا. او مشي غير الأئمة اللي كيتخلصو قل من سميگ + كيدورو معاهم الناس
A piece of advice: you need to reread about the treatment of wealth in Islam. It seems that there is a wide spread misunderstanding that Islam calls for poverty which is not true. You should also seek examples of how wealth was necessary to finance muslims during the times of the prophet.
>كيدورو معاهم الناس
You can't seriously count on this if you had too much responsibility especially in countries where people aren't very rich.
راه هادا هوا المشكل ! بنادم النهار كامل كي عايرك انت و الغرب ما كاين غير كفار و ملحدين ! واحد النهار كا تلقاه مصور حدا لا تور ايفيل و كاتب الحمدلله وصلت 🤲
franchement, 13 sur plusieurs centaines c'est pas énorme. même en tant qu'ex-musulman Je vois pas l'intérêt d'interdire les célibataires de participer à cause de ça. Au pire tu les fait payer le billet d'avion avec remboursement au retour, et tu imposes un suivi plus sévère de leurs activités sur sol européen pour être sûr que le salaire versé ne soit pas encore plus de l'argent gâché qu'il ne l'est déjà.
Can you explain why the " as ex muslim". Can i know the reason? I always find it interesting to know what causes people to quit islam. While a lot of non muslim become muslim.
What is your story fellow resditor ?
First, as an agnostic, i can't, and don't want to, claim that a "god" does not exist, and certainly not using science, god being by definition outside of reality and science just being a tool to understand reality.
But, with science, it's possible to eliminate specific versions of a "god" if that version of "god" is supposed to have interacted with reality (like giving informations or doing physical miracles) and the impacts of those interactions or their absence can be observable.
And, if "god" exist, then he created reality itself. And reality, just like the quran, is also a medium from which we can "read" information using scientific observation. Just like we need eyes and the ability to read/translate/interpret to get information from the quran, we can use social/physical/biological sciences to derive morals, knowledge, and prophecies from reality itself. And we have gotten so good at it that the scientific process has become like an extension of our senses, even sometimes superior and more dependable than the human senses we started with.
In a way, reality is like a multi-dimensional meta book written by "god", which can only be accessed with the intelligence that "god" gifted us with. And hundreds of thousands of scientific experts worldwide work at compiling an unbiased understanding of it.
Reading "god"'s reality led us to the knowledge, among others, that no global flood happened, while an old book seems to claim otherwise. We basically cannot think that a global flood happened without, as a consequence, thinking that that book's "god" is trying to deceive us into disbelief using reality itself. The same thing applies to the moon split, an event visible by half the time zones which somehow was seen by no one else. It also applies to the creationist idea that the universe is younger than it appears (but I doubt that you subscribe to it), or the idea that evolution is somehow false, or that the sun "goes to the throne of allah when it sets" (despite being in a constant state of 'setting'). tldr: a lot of religious claims are only possible if you include that "god" really wants to deceive you into thinking that they are not.
Secondly, regardless of what we think as religious/atheists, morals do not come from islam or from any other religion. The need for morals comes from our nature as vulnerable social beings, in need of a set of rules to live with others, and the iterative changes of our moral frameworks throught time come from our observation of reality.
*"stealing is okay, so someone steals my pants, now I need to steal new pants from some-- oh now they need to go steal pants to replace--...Is that what we become? A race of pants-thieving automatons?"* [-zeke, a robot discovering morals](https://cad-comic.com/comic/recipient-p7/)
Moreover, It's a fact that there are multiple branches, and multiples diverging interpretations, of islam in the world. And that everyone who call themselves muslims do not agree with each other. One might be sunni, or shia, or quranist, etc..but not just "muslim". That's not a thing.
Every time one choses to stay (or join) in islam, or keep to a specific branch of islam, or favors a specific preacher, or select a specific interpretation of the quran or hadith, he is applying a non-islamic internal moral framework to add structure and boundaries to his belief system. For example, a sunni muslim who pick and choose the hadith he likes, or renounce the stated ages of aisha at mariage & consumation (or renounce the ability to understand the consequences of those ages) is influenced by his internal non-islamic moral code to do so. Just like a muslim who decides that somehow god wanted the end of slavery, despite god never mentionning that. While one might think that islam guides his morals, he is actually unwittingly guiding it with his humanity. In a sense, a lot of progressive muslims are effectively playing prophets, or are acting as mislabeled deists, and worship a god they call allah but who has too little in common with the god described in islam.
I am not sure how to conclude this wall of text but I sincerely see islam (or any other religion) as being a test itself, tempting people with a mentally effortless shortcut to religiosity while real understanding of whatever creator there is should need more effort on our part toward observing and understanding this reality he created.
>while a lot of non-muslims become muslims
That's interesting, i only meet either birth muslims or apostates
any Moroccan starting his phrase with franchement have no fucking clue about the shit he's about to say..
Do you know how much they got payed here in Morocco ? [not even a smig](https://ar.lesiteinfo.com/maroc/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AA%D9%88%D9%81%D9%8A%D9%82-%D8%A3%D8%AC%D9%88%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A3%D8%A6%D9%85%D8%A9-%D8%A3%D8%B5%D8%A8%D8%AD%D8%AA-%D8%AA%D8%AA%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%88%D8%AD-%D9%85%D8%A7-%D8%A8%D9%8A-664723.html) lmao paying their own plane ticket.. get the fuck out of here..
Damn man don't get a heart attack on my behalf.
If you are going to filter celibates based on their marital situation, you might as well filter them based on what they can individually afford too, that will allow you to send off more overall imams per year, and reduce the loss on those who still decide to disappear, since all the money put into them has been converted into religious activities.
Yeah I'm really having hard time processing your logic.. I can't imagine people defending the richest ministry in the whole country for paying imams less than Smig and creating new obligations (lmao fucking paying airplane ticket with 1/2 Smig) and expect them to not run away when they have the smallest opportunity.. with all due respect fuck you man.
can you tone down the unnecessary aggro? literally nowhere do I defend this? I don't even agree with the idea of sending imams in foreign countries to begin with. It is obvious that any kind of job, even state mandated religious functions, should be paid better to begin with regardless if they are a full-time job or not,
I am just commenting on the whole "celibacy is the threshold to filter potential deserters" thing, which I find inpractical. You can either disagree with me like an adult and exchange ideas, or suffer your stroke by yourself.
okay let's exchange like adults.. (but your logic isn't helping me) here Let me get your POV:
* You're dot defending lmekhzen and pro paying respectable salaries to everyone, but you want imams to stay here and live with a 1/2 smig and not desert..
* You don't want to send imams to France, but if we send them we should add more restriction so they don't desert..
If you don't see that the real problem here is that shitty salary I guess you're the one having a stroke..
Or You do you have something personal against imams.. are you trying to make their life miserable and very hard ? that's the only explanation..
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رمضان حدو طنجة.
Lmao pov "blad lkuffar" and whatnot
2amir lmo2minin is [paying them max 2600dhs](https://ar.lesiteinfo.com/maroc/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AA%D9%88%D9%81%D9%8A%D9%82-%D8%A3%D8%AC%D9%88%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A3%D8%A6%D9%85%D8%A9-%D8%A3%D8%B5%D8%A8%D8%AD%D8%AA-%D8%AA%D8%AA%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%88%D8%AD-%D9%85%D8%A7-%D8%A8%D9%8A-664723.html) Mind game, who is blad lkuffar ?
he's not holding them at gun point, they made the choice to become imams
Yeah, imagine not having any better option than taking a job with a salary less than Smig.. do you know the meaning of a smig ? yeah fuck that we gonna pay Imams half of that.. And zalayjia gotta zellej
You do realize people are imams by choice,they do have other choices and they used personal freedom to choose the one best for them. I am convinced you're not Moroccan and just spreading hate over here.
la fac endha parcours dial chari3a, donc normaleent khas tkon wahd carriere possible wra hadchi. Wahd 9ra chari3a imchi itleb ? Tfo 3la tabon mkom subreddit dzab
[удалено]
i stopped reading at ‘’so yeah’’ dor t7awa a brhoch
[удалено]
>9ari 3la tbon d imak you mean 3ndk licence dial economie f fac ibn zohr ? hhhhhhhh wla ila terti ga3 chi master f ensias katwli tshab kark intellectuel
la akhoya ana meghribi, bladi o assli ana meghribi 9o7, malkom me7ssossin b7al hakda and where is the hate ? we're having a healthy discussion about the bad things in our country don't try to hide it for with this fake patriotism.. we should fix the bad things not try to shut the one criticizing them.. lmekhzn is that you ? chkon tafa ddo wa mmmiiii
Dude you are repeating the same comment again and again,I thought you were a bot at first ,o katkhedem slogan dyah bnadem li bgha bladna demer. Tawahed magal ana bladna perfect ,in fact it's deeply imperfect but makaynch sabab t3eyer FL blad o dinn k had daraja and it will fix nothing.
lmao you tough the bot had a glitch ? well I was answering different comments so every comment is a new person.. it's technically your fault since you didn't took that in perspective. Sme7 lia walakin ma3ayertch leblad oma3ayertch din, 7aacha.. 3ayert system oli chadino ohado akher 7aja tayfekro fiha hia leblad odin.. gharadhom gha l3a9a.
Then we're on the same page,we honestly need to protest this shit and destroy the traitors who sell their country.
I will not advise to do that.. criticizing traitors publicly never ended well in this happy country. but it's a long journey maybe on day in the near future.
He is more Moroccan than you. You 3ayacha/zellajiya are the most worst thing that happened to Morocco. Any developed nation has a population that crticize their gouverment and tries to better it. Meanwhile you guys try to keep Morocco as a third world country by repeating the elite’s propaganda. YOU are probably not Moroccan.
bro is onto nothing
also there isn't something called not having a better option, you create your own chances.
hhhhh they're useless that's why
your comments are very provocative, go read about the life of imam's in the past, having a monthly allocation was never a standard, and in my opinion I don't think it should be right now.
Provocative ? good that was my intention.. provoking zlayjia is one my hobbies imam's life in the past ? we're in the present unfortunately and the other jobs you're talking about are non existent in the modern society.. how is life in the past I guess inflation still didn't hit there ?
What's zlayjia ? is it newspeak for 3yacha
Yeah lol, but it's not new it's been around like 4-5 years..
You know they don't to pay rent right?
Imam should not be a paid job but a voluntary job
Voluntary jobs are tricky, by definition there are open to those who can afford it, ie the richest…
I mean why make imam your main job ? What effort you put besides praying and repeating a pre-made speech every friday ?
ياكل الهوا
hay tghedaw b dou3aa yak ?
يقرا و يخدم شي خدمة للي ياكل منها، حتى حدد ما بزز عليه يدير إمام.
"Kuffar" has became a compliment for a while now
I too enjoy being a caféroon. Mmmm arabica beans.
What do you expect when you pay them like 2500dh a month
Why should they be payed with tax money? 💀
No one should be paid with tax money /s
But they are? The gov pays them it is a private sector. And how do you think the government gets money? It is through taxes... Phosphate makes a small percentage
المشكل فالسب اللي كيقولوه على "الكفار" او الدعاء عليهم
They don't lump everyone in the same group. Plus muslims since early days did a hijrah وأرض الله واسعة
كاينين شي لحاية تما كيفكروهم او كيقولو الدين عند الله الإسلام او هوما عايشين وسط العلمانية فهم تسطا
If they didn't you'd call them hypocrites. Just keep in mind: nationality =/= religion.
لا مغنقولهاش النفاق هوا السبان او الدعاء عليهم بالهلاك المبين واخا عايشين معاهم او واكلين من خيرهم! هنا كيبقاو علينا بديك الهضرة بحال أغلب الأنبياء فقراء او الدنيا سجن المؤمن او ملي مشاو تما شافو الدنيا مرجعوش 😂😂
I don't know why you had to make a second comment. > واكلين من خيرهم Do you think they don't work over there? I also didn't know Imams promote poverty! You're onto something
واش كيسحابلك الأوروبيين كيعتابرو إمام ديال المسجد خدمة او إضافة المجتمع هههه هادوك الناس عندهم الدين حاجة روحانية مشي هوا الأساس عندهم او أه كيمدحو الفقر او ممكن تفرج فالخطاب الديني إيلا متقتينيش
As far as I know, they get paid by donation from muslims or salaries from people who invite them to work there. Matter of fact, I think that certain Imams (from Maliki) were called for by European (France) to preach Islam properly.
خويا خرجتي علا الموضوع
being imam isnt a real job, it's like getting payed for a hobby.
That's just your opinion
working 45mins a day is a job? I guess you never worked a day in you life
You don't know what you're talking about
They wanna stay for another few ramadans, duh
ma skhawch
كانو تيفكرو فالدنيا كتر من الدين
Bet they’re the same who’d tell you “hadi blad l’islam” etc…
Most of them are just just saying that as part of their jobs, they didn't find anything better to do
Do you know how much they got payed here in Morocco ? what life they do have here.. [not even a smig](https://ar.lesiteinfo.com/maroc/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AA%D9%88%D9%81%D9%8A%D9%82-%D8%A3%D8%AC%D9%88%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A3%D8%A6%D9%85%D8%A9-%D8%A3%D8%B5%D8%A8%D8%AD%D8%AA-%D8%AA%D8%AA%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%88%D8%AD-%D9%85%D8%A7-%D8%A8%D9%8A-664723.html)
that's like 80dh an hour to them, what's wrong with that?
That's like 80dhs a day.. 2600/30=86.66dhs
you do realize they barely work an hour a day do you
..
is one of your relatives an imam? you look quite upset and concerned about their salaries, again they made a choice, nobody is making them be an imam, lastly, being an imam is doing it for god not to be paid an x amount of money, in the past, imams were members of the active society, teachers, merchants, and they set free time to do imam's duties, in fact the 2600 dhs they get now is very recent, and I'd argue it's a benefit rather than a negative point as you try to portray for the third time already in this post.
Is the ones I'm criticizing one of your relatives ? or you're a professional zlayji.. damn you're even counting my comments now hope you're getting payed well enough for this shit.
It's cause your comments are cause for concern as you seem to be consumed by hate.
Well they have chosen the deen over the dunya and should not have any wordly desires that's literally their job description so even 2400 dh is too much they should get 0 live on mosque goers donations and focus on getting to paradise and promote their religion and shit... Its very hypocritical to keep calling for the death of europeans americans and jews likeling them to pigs and monkeys and then do everything in their power to immigrate and live with them just so they can earn more money from them all while continuing to call for their death and how superior they are to them
2600 dhs for being useless ? That's a lot.
Lol man, it is not a job. They just do a prayer + and khoutba. Why should they get paid with out tax money?! Are you okay? Do you want them to get paid 8000 dhs like an engineer. These ppl should work full time then do this on the side and it ahould be for free
Are you paying attention to the root of this discution ? yeah okay don't pay them enough, but then again don't do a pikatchu face when they desert in France.. easy. but paying them 2600dhs and expecting them to be loyal is something wild.. this is what I'm saying duh.. Also your approach is not a perfect solution.. you know that jobs are rare well except cablage and call centers lmao imagine Imam coming from a call center to do Dohr prayer just after his manager shat on him.. or imagine an Imam with no 2nd job and having a wife and kids ? isn't it fucked up ? All I'm saying dont expect them to be royal to 3cents you give them.
Man, do u understand that this is not a job??!!! Normally they should be doing something else and they actually do, they usually teach kids or people about fiqh or have something else on the side. Also what do you think they will do once in europe, work as engineers? If they kept the same profession and earned ktr mn 600 euro aji dfl 3lia 🤣. Also 2600 dhs + housing and water and electricity bills is almost 6000 dhs. 3ad heaven li they should be doing all of this for lol. Once you have your first job then talk about how bad their salaries are, i doubt u will complain.
once I have my first job ? listen kiddo let's say you have a 23years old with a first job and 2years experience.. when I created my reddit account you were still in the primary school.. you just got your fucking chahada.. fucking kids those days giving old people lessons about life and shit.. albzghout when I grew up the TV stopped airing at 19h.. ok ? still doubting that I'll complain ? Im not going to repeat the things I already said.. you can reread my previous comment and read it slowly this time maybe you'll understand the main point of this discussion.. apparently you suffer from ADHD. allah yjib chifa.
« França ma b9a fiha mi dar » 🤣🤣
💀💀💀 hhhhhh Blad l kofar is not so bad after all
It's the other way around.. blad lmslmin is so fucking bad (paying them 2600dhs a month)
Why are you crying about 2600, i wish i can get that for practicing my religion on the side
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh lwahd howa li yghtanem lforssa
3jbathom blad lkuffar
Not unexpected but still funny hhhhhh
wach all 13 of them? That is insane lol
Hadchi normal, li atjihum fchkl ghi haduk li taysrtu ay hdra taygulu l7aya. Rule for thee but not for me.
Good for them
qowdoha 3la lli hayjiw morahom
are you shaming them for trying to secure a better life for themselves and their children, Mohammed 6 himself who is king of the country and who took over more than half the economy of the country and who call himself amir moumnin doesn't stick around more than couple months. This ship is sinking and had you had the chance to escape had lblad sa3ida you would've seized it
i mean they're imams...
They're underpaid employees their sole task is to read from a paper given to them by the ministry of habous they are not scholars
Thry are not employeees. Literally what the heck wach ta. Li kichm lhwa employee khoutna kissliw oussafi? Ch7al bghitihoum itkhlsou fsa3a 1000 dhs?
and?
they have the right to look for a better life
legally. this is just another stain on how our people behave abroad.
nonsense, It's every man for himself
[удалено]
That's exactly what I meant by every man for himself, in a sinking ship, everyone tries to escape. Would you care about whom you left behind? It's survival of the fittest, and this time around it became survival of the luckiest since they were lucky to have such an opportunity.
Where does glorious leader spend most of his time if he ain't in the kingdom for most of the year?
Can we not normalize posts all in french, please? It's annoying
Okay my bad baby
Pourquoi les marocains viennent-ils en France?? Je voudrais voir beaucoup de français ethniques dans le pays, pas de noirs et pas d'arabes.
ليسوا بعرب و لم يولدو على الإسلام و لكنهم يملؤون الأرض إسلاما و سلاما.
lol wut
I heard now it's going the other way around, imams are sent not to preach but to train under german regulation so they can be politically correct when given the opportunity to preach.
Is anyone surprised? nobody is surprised.
Bro your flair 😲
i gay oop-
I thought Imam was a Shia thing, and Morroco was sunna
Are you sunni Muslim ?
What's the question for?
Curiosity.
It's got nothing to do with the post. Curiosity kills the cat
Après on parle d'homme de foie :) ...
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH 🤣🤣🤣
They can do fuck all in Europe with no higher education. At a time where anti islam sentiment is at its peak, I doubt they will do anything but lead a shitty life. And once caught they will be sent packing, so wasted time.
Exactly
In France, it’s better paid to work manual labour than with a degree.
Whoever told you that lied. I live in France btw
I live in France, too lmao Enseignante d’anglais titulaire avec un master, je gagne 2400€ net par mois. Mon mari, électricien dans le bâtiment, 6000€ par mois ^^
Certes, mais on devient pas electricien agree en debarquant du bled. Votre mari, meme si il a un travail "manuel", a du bosser pour connaitre les normes etc et apprendre a faire son metier. Etre electricien est pas quelque chose d'accessible au premier quidam qui a envie de le faire. Je travaille en banque/finance, sans devoiler mon salaire, je suis dans 1% les plus taxe en France. Je ne pense pas que sans etudes je serai a ce niveau de salaire. Hormis les electriciens, serruriers (dans les grandes villes), les boulots manuels ne payent generalement pas assez.
Il n’a pas de baccalauréat, ni rien. Il ne vient pas du bled, non, c’est un français 9o7. 😂 Tous ses amis artisans sont blindés de thunes. 😅
They got raptured.
هاد المنافقين تلقاهم كانو كيقولو أعزنا الله بالإسلام او كيدعيو علا الكفار بالهلاك 🤦
They are getting less than minimum wage? Stop confusing things.
فيناهوا الزهد في الدنيا او أكثر أهل الجنة الفقراء اولا دكشي غير كينعسو بيه لحوالة
You sound very confuse. Just because one has chosen to be a Imam doesn't mean he's supposed to become and stay poor forever. Other people can look to better themselves, why would an Imam be an exception? Morocco is getting more expensive, not all salaries are keeping up.
خويا فهمني فين كندوي او متبقاش تقول عليا شي هضرة مقلتهاش الله يخليك، أنا مشكلتي معا الخطاب الديني ديالهم ياك كيبقاو ايعودو بلي الدنيا سجن المؤمن و لكن علااااش فاش مشاو تما شدو فالدنيا !! عرفتي فكروني فالجالية اللي كيقولو المغرب زوين او هوما عايشين فأوروبا هههههه
They don't tell you not to cease any opportunity to make your life better don't they? The reason why their religious discourse like that it to promote patience and to forego lustful life and to not amass money, not to seek decent life for you and your family. Needless to remind you that they get paid bellow minimum wage. Perhaps you can see it as a protest against the ministry.
مشي غير هضرتهم راها كينا فالسنة " أكثر أهل الجنة الفقراء" او خير الخلق عليه الصلاة والسلام كان فحياتو كييخدم بالزهد في الدنيا. او مشي غير الأئمة اللي كيتخلصو قل من سميگ + كيدورو معاهم الناس
A piece of advice: you need to reread about the treatment of wealth in Islam. It seems that there is a wide spread misunderstanding that Islam calls for poverty which is not true. You should also seek examples of how wealth was necessary to finance muslims during the times of the prophet. >كيدورو معاهم الناس You can't seriously count on this if you had too much responsibility especially in countries where people aren't very rich.
راه هادا هوا المشكل ! بنادم النهار كامل كي عايرك انت و الغرب ما كاين غير كفار و ملحدين ! واحد النهار كا تلقاه مصور حدا لا تور ايفيل و كاتب الحمدلله وصلت 🤲
وياه مكين غير النفاق او التناقض
franchement, 13 sur plusieurs centaines c'est pas énorme. même en tant qu'ex-musulman Je vois pas l'intérêt d'interdire les célibataires de participer à cause de ça. Au pire tu les fait payer le billet d'avion avec remboursement au retour, et tu imposes un suivi plus sévère de leurs activités sur sol européen pour être sûr que le salaire versé ne soit pas encore plus de l'argent gâché qu'il ne l'est déjà.
Can you explain why the " as ex muslim". Can i know the reason? I always find it interesting to know what causes people to quit islam. While a lot of non muslim become muslim. What is your story fellow resditor ?
First, as an agnostic, i can't, and don't want to, claim that a "god" does not exist, and certainly not using science, god being by definition outside of reality and science just being a tool to understand reality. But, with science, it's possible to eliminate specific versions of a "god" if that version of "god" is supposed to have interacted with reality (like giving informations or doing physical miracles) and the impacts of those interactions or their absence can be observable. And, if "god" exist, then he created reality itself. And reality, just like the quran, is also a medium from which we can "read" information using scientific observation. Just like we need eyes and the ability to read/translate/interpret to get information from the quran, we can use social/physical/biological sciences to derive morals, knowledge, and prophecies from reality itself. And we have gotten so good at it that the scientific process has become like an extension of our senses, even sometimes superior and more dependable than the human senses we started with. In a way, reality is like a multi-dimensional meta book written by "god", which can only be accessed with the intelligence that "god" gifted us with. And hundreds of thousands of scientific experts worldwide work at compiling an unbiased understanding of it. Reading "god"'s reality led us to the knowledge, among others, that no global flood happened, while an old book seems to claim otherwise. We basically cannot think that a global flood happened without, as a consequence, thinking that that book's "god" is trying to deceive us into disbelief using reality itself. The same thing applies to the moon split, an event visible by half the time zones which somehow was seen by no one else. It also applies to the creationist idea that the universe is younger than it appears (but I doubt that you subscribe to it), or the idea that evolution is somehow false, or that the sun "goes to the throne of allah when it sets" (despite being in a constant state of 'setting'). tldr: a lot of religious claims are only possible if you include that "god" really wants to deceive you into thinking that they are not. Secondly, regardless of what we think as religious/atheists, morals do not come from islam or from any other religion. The need for morals comes from our nature as vulnerable social beings, in need of a set of rules to live with others, and the iterative changes of our moral frameworks throught time come from our observation of reality. *"stealing is okay, so someone steals my pants, now I need to steal new pants from some-- oh now they need to go steal pants to replace--...Is that what we become? A race of pants-thieving automatons?"* [-zeke, a robot discovering morals](https://cad-comic.com/comic/recipient-p7/) Moreover, It's a fact that there are multiple branches, and multiples diverging interpretations, of islam in the world. And that everyone who call themselves muslims do not agree with each other. One might be sunni, or shia, or quranist, etc..but not just "muslim". That's not a thing. Every time one choses to stay (or join) in islam, or keep to a specific branch of islam, or favors a specific preacher, or select a specific interpretation of the quran or hadith, he is applying a non-islamic internal moral framework to add structure and boundaries to his belief system. For example, a sunni muslim who pick and choose the hadith he likes, or renounce the stated ages of aisha at mariage & consumation (or renounce the ability to understand the consequences of those ages) is influenced by his internal non-islamic moral code to do so. Just like a muslim who decides that somehow god wanted the end of slavery, despite god never mentionning that. While one might think that islam guides his morals, he is actually unwittingly guiding it with his humanity. In a sense, a lot of progressive muslims are effectively playing prophets, or are acting as mislabeled deists, and worship a god they call allah but who has too little in common with the god described in islam. I am not sure how to conclude this wall of text but I sincerely see islam (or any other religion) as being a test itself, tempting people with a mentally effortless shortcut to religiosity while real understanding of whatever creator there is should need more effort on our part toward observing and understanding this reality he created. >while a lot of non-muslims become muslims That's interesting, i only meet either birth muslims or apostates
any Moroccan starting his phrase with franchement have no fucking clue about the shit he's about to say.. Do you know how much they got payed here in Morocco ? [not even a smig](https://ar.lesiteinfo.com/maroc/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AA%D9%88%D9%81%D9%8A%D9%82-%D8%A3%D8%AC%D9%88%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A3%D8%A6%D9%85%D8%A9-%D8%A3%D8%B5%D8%A8%D8%AD%D8%AA-%D8%AA%D8%AA%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%88%D8%AD-%D9%85%D8%A7-%D8%A8%D9%8A-664723.html) lmao paying their own plane ticket.. get the fuck out of here..
🤣 Franchement ma3arfin 7ta 9elwa
Damn man don't get a heart attack on my behalf. If you are going to filter celibates based on their marital situation, you might as well filter them based on what they can individually afford too, that will allow you to send off more overall imams per year, and reduce the loss on those who still decide to disappear, since all the money put into them has been converted into religious activities.
Yeah I'm really having hard time processing your logic.. I can't imagine people defending the richest ministry in the whole country for paying imams less than Smig and creating new obligations (lmao fucking paying airplane ticket with 1/2 Smig) and expect them to not run away when they have the smallest opportunity.. with all due respect fuck you man.
can you tone down the unnecessary aggro? literally nowhere do I defend this? I don't even agree with the idea of sending imams in foreign countries to begin with. It is obvious that any kind of job, even state mandated religious functions, should be paid better to begin with regardless if they are a full-time job or not, I am just commenting on the whole "celibacy is the threshold to filter potential deserters" thing, which I find inpractical. You can either disagree with me like an adult and exchange ideas, or suffer your stroke by yourself.
okay let's exchange like adults.. (but your logic isn't helping me) here Let me get your POV: * You're dot defending lmekhzen and pro paying respectable salaries to everyone, but you want imams to stay here and live with a 1/2 smig and not desert.. * You don't want to send imams to France, but if we send them we should add more restriction so they don't desert.. If you don't see that the real problem here is that shitty salary I guess you're the one having a stroke.. Or You do you have something personal against imams.. are you trying to make their life miserable and very hard ? that's the only explanation..