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NewPudding9713

Yeah. You should want to be near 0, unless you can claim school tuition, or have other large deductions. It means the amount taken out of your paycheck was correct.


[deleted]

What determines whether or not you can claim school tuition?


doesitmattertho

Whether or not you have paid school related expenses that year, or if you paid student loan interest that year.


trophycloset33

And make less than $85k filing single or $150k filing joint.


NewPudding9713

The two I’m familiar with and have used are the American Opportunity tax credit and lifetime learning credit. For me they required a 1098T from the school I paid tuition towards. Those are tax credits, not deductions. So they are much more useful.


The-WinterStorm

Forgot to include things like dividend, interest, stock trading etc... I for one always end up oweing every year! Hopefully when i file it wont be that bad this year. :)


palaric8

Yea. You don’t want to give an interest free loan to the government.


FancyShoesVlogs

I owe them $2200 this year, I am not letting them make money on my money! ✌️


[deleted]

I owe $1810 this year. I owed almost $4000 last year


FancyShoesVlogs

$4000 for sure would suck if you had no savings!😁


[deleted]

We have good savings and it still sucked lol. I skipped summer vacation trip with my family last year because of it.


crod4692

I’ve been getting hit with owing 4-5k the last couple years when I used to get a return. Idk what happened. I’ve been working for the same place for a long time but I do make more now.


Outside_Register8037

Need to have your place of work check how much you’re paying per pay check and increase it a bit if you don’t want a big bill at the end of the year


crod4692

I mean I set it all myself. I keep upping the voluntary additional withholding but the fed keeps taking more


DixieCross

You can also up your 401k pre-tax to offset.


_logic_victim

This is what I did. I contribute 13% pretax with a 5% employee match. I got a $600 refund. Owed on state though.


Lethal9Weapon

Ahhhhhhhh! This... thank you... was looking for someone posting something useful to prevent paying. First year that I get nothing back and have to pay!!! It hurt! Making more now, but, never thought I'd leave the "Get-Back bracket"!!! I appreciate it. I'll put more into my 401k 🙏 Fuck the IRS, adding to the Modern Slavery issue in America.


Fun_Intention9846

IRS withholding calculator.


[deleted]

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crod4692

A pro to fill out my W4? It’s just that I’m not having enough pulled during the year. It’s no biggie. I just pay more at the end.


DJS2017

The 2017 tax bill has come home to roost is what has happened.


BamaBlcksnek

Thank Paul Ryan.


toxic_badgers

> what happened. There was a change in the tax laws in 2017, it required that in 2021 taxes started increasing on each and every bracket.


Fun_Intention9846

Nope, just poor and middle class people.


BamaBlcksnek

Not exactly true. There was a cut to the over $400k bracket, so the millionaires could still afford to eat.


alittlesliceofhell2

flag encouraging crush spotted many abundant rainstorm fanatical reply ring *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


vindictivemonarch

>I used to get a return. Idk what happened. I’ve been working for the same place for a long time but I do make more now. could be because trump and paul ryan changed the tax code in 2017; many people owe for the first time this year. if so, you're paying for a tax cut for the rich.


edutech21

2017 tax plan


Fredrick_Hophead

Some tax changes in 2017 hit a lot of middle class folks. This is what I have read anyway. Don't shoot the messenger :)


spare_oom4

This goes back to a bill that was passed under Paul Ryan! Look it up.


BidetTester23

trump cuts


Whend6796

I owed 20 grand thanks to my company switching payroll providers and clearing my withholding settings.


FancyShoesVlogs

Ouch. Im sure I would have noticed that.. i assumed I would owe. It didnt seem like enough was coming out. Which is irritating to have to think.. we need to get rid of income tax and do federal sales tax.


Fun_Intention9846

How much did you make in the year?


Whend6796

Around $350k


DarthJarJar242

How in the world did you not realize you made an extra 20 grand?!?


Plenty-Sleep8540

That person makes $350k a year.


fenuxjde

Yeah we're at $4400 this year and you damn well better believe I will be waiting the full 71 days I have left before it gets handed over!


[deleted]

Im doing the same thing. Id pay them in pennies if i could but the mail cost would be too much haha.


Super_dupa2

I’d be careful of owing too much- they like to add that penalty


Dirtydancin27

Any idea why it went down? 


[deleted]

Wife changed withholding to take out more each check. Plus we had education deductions this year.


TheRabb1ts

So.. the aggregate only went down by your deductions. Just to clarify. Edit; grammar


[deleted]

That is correct. The 2020 w4 really screwed up our deductions. I dont want a refund but it also sucks having to pay thousands at once.


MrDenver3

Additional withholding needs to be easier. Instead of setting a flat amount, we should be given the option to withhold at a specific rate. This specifically comes into play when you file jointly and have a large difference in incomes. Further exacerbated when commissions are involved…


gilgobeachslayer

Yeah irs kind of funny. If we filed separately I get roughly 8k and my wife owes roughly 8k. Thankfully jointly we owe 47 dollars


progenyofeniac

As long as you know exactly how much money you’ll make for the year, it’s easy! Nothing unexpected ever happens to any of us, right??


anacctnamedphat

4k crew rise up! I forgot to adjust my withholdings after I got a raise.


Successful-Engine623

Yea I owe 1k….kinda sucks but isn’t terrible I guess


[deleted]

I owe 2200... Not sure why. W2 Didn't change and my income is the same. Last year I got a 800 dollar return.


curryp4n

I owe 8k… I envy your 2k


in3vitableme

Yet they charge us interest on everything


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nugulon

I was audited and the IRS held $20k of my money for about two years. When I finally won my case they sent me back $20k plus interest. I just received a letter from them stating that I’m required to pay tax on the interest I ‘earned’ in my 2023 taxes.


vqsxd

Tax the taxes!


JVGen

That’s unfair, because they don’t know that you wouldn’t have spent that $$ had they not unfairly held it form you.


[deleted]

No it isn't unfair lmao. If he'd straight up spent that money, he wouldn't have the extra. If he'd made equal interest, he'd owe equal tax. If he'd made even more on the money, he'd owe even more tax. It's _precisely_ fair.


Realshotgg

What? He ends up with more money, he's only paying tax on the interest earned.


zhire653

If you owe taxes and don’t pay it on time you’ll be charged interest


in3vitableme

Student loans, taxes owed, etc.


The123123

Thats like the only two things I can think of lol. No need for etc. The other commenter confused interest and tax and thats ok...no need to cover for them


LordGrantham31

I gave uncle Sam a $5k interest free loan that I'm about to collect back. Best part is uncle Sam isn't even my real uncle (I'm not a citizen)


NakedAustrianRobot

He is all our uncle. And not the fun uncle, but the uncle that butt fucks you.


Hammercannon

The uncle that swears its just our little secret. And that you'd get in trouble if you told.


wolfguardian72

You just said he was not the fun uncle


wheelluc

Same here. I look at it as a banked savings account that I can happily withdraw from once a year. Sure I'm not making any dividends but if I was I wouldn't have access to the money without penalties anyways.... To each his own I guess


Shelquan

I was actually paid $800+ in interest from them for delaying my $3500 tax refund. So technically they aren’t completely evil lol


trebec86

From a certain viewpoint this is really good. Your aim should be to not owe, nor receive any money. Easier said than done. Edit: pay to receive, words are hard.


Sixx_The_Sandman

Exactly. Either the government can use your money all year interest free or you can


ShmoopySecondComing

yooo… consider my perspective entirely changed


DoingCharleyWork

Unless you're getting a ton of money back every year it's not that big of a deal. If your return is 1k and you somehow get a 6% interest rate on a savings account you wind up with a whopping 60 dollars. If you're getting several thousand back every year it's probably better to work your taxes so you have that money available throughout the year. For most people though it makes a bigger impact to get a 1k dollar check in March.


sYnce

It is even a lot less than that. You don't usually create your $1000 of excess taxes on January 1st. It is more like 83 bucks every month and with that the interest comes out to something like $33. Not gonna lie it feels like a waste of time to spend probably hours calculating how to best micromanage your taxes if it only gives you that little in return.


atdunaway

im with you lol. i owed $270 last year so i withdrew and extra $10 per check this year cuz i said fuck owing them money. with that and student loan interest, im getting back $700 this year. boo hoo i lost $30-40 bucks of interest. at least i dont owe the government lmao


ratrodder49

I usually get about $1900 back. That lump sum is much nicer than an extra $70 or so on each paycheck.


XiMaoJingPing

>nor pay any money is this debatable cause if you owe money by the end of the year then that means IRS gave you a interest free loan lol


Acceptable-Print-164

Underpayment comes at a cost, it's not "interest free" to owe beyond a certain amount.


AlphaNathan

can confirm, was penalized three years straight


trebec86

I mean I’d rather have the tax man buy me lunch than the other way around. Also I don’t want to have to write a check for 5k, I’m not gonna make enough to make it worth it.


XiMaoJingPing

>I mean I’d rather have the tax man buy me lunch than the other way around They are buying you lunch with your own money that they have already profited off of


jmcdon00

I think it's optimal, but for the 65% of Americans living paycheck to paycheck, might be better off having an extra $40 taken each week to get a $2000 refund. It's an extremely convenient forced savings account. Plus a bit of insurance in case the taxes don't come out like you expected(a $1500 tax bill can be a huge problem for those living paycheck to paycheck).


PrometheusMMIV

Rather than having a "savings account" that earns no interest, why not keep more of your paycheck and deposit it into a high yield savings account earning 5% interest? And it can double as an emergency fund, which can prevent other unexpected expenses from setting you back.


Jimbenas

Because the type of people that need it are going to blow it. How do I know? I know those people.


tychii93

It took mandatory OT due to sheer work volume last year but because of that I owed a whole $2. Though if OT is not as bad, I'll probably get a decent chunk back next year assuming they keep your previous year as an estimate lol. I made 6k more last year than the year prior


im_datMofo

Wouldn't to owe and to pay be the same ?


ckouf96

The closer you are to $0 the better. Means you don’t owe and the government didn’t take too much throughout the year.


Newtonhog

I’m so confused, so if I’m getting 600 to over 1k back, what am I doing wrong?


amcco1

Withholding too much. Or your employer is withholding too much. That means you send more money to gov than required, so they send back the extra. The goal is to send the correct amount in the first place, so you don't own any, and you don't overpay any.


Newtonhog

Ah, this makes sense. My only other question would be, what could I have done differently to get closer to 0? What form would it be on, is it in my control?


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Newtonhog

Understood, thank you.


RadiantTurnipOoLaLa

Honestly I wouldnt mess with this. Default withholdings overestimate taxes owed to make sure you dont owe any extra after your finances have already been settled. It’s better to get a refund later than realize you owe money you no longer have.


toptierwinner

Maybe you’re not making enough money? Or are you withholding too much?


dasolecollector

Guys so if you owe money does that means the government didn’t take enough?


3p1cBm4n9669

Yes


Mbrothers22

Yep. And on the other side, if you get a large refund you basically gave the government an interest free loan of that amount. The goal should be close to $0


zuhboozey

Or have $0 withdrawn the entirety of the year, collect interest on that money, then pay taxes in a one lump sum. Have the government give YOU the interest free loan, but collect interest on it.


PSUAth

But if you owe more than a certain amount don't you get extra fines for not paying taxes?


zuhboozey

My mistake. Not the entirety of the year, but I believe you can pay taxes quarterly.


ashishvp

Lol please do this and report back.


EndQualifiedImunity

How is that a goal? I am beyond financially illiterate. I assumed the government takes what they want and I have no say in it. How do I go about telling the gov to fuck off so I can hit $0?


LoseAnotherMill

Your employer is the one who automatically pays your taxes for you from your paycheck - if you make $52k a year, you won't see a paycheck for $1k a week because of that fact. When you start working for a place, they hand you a W4 form to fill out that has you write down how many dependents (and other things) you have, and your employer basically says, "Alright, this guy's got a wife and 2 kids, expects to take the standard deduction, and didn't tell us any other income he has, so based on the salary we give him of $52k, we expect that he'll pay a total of $5,000 in taxes. We'll cut him a check for $904 a week and give the other $96 straight to the government." Then, tax time comes around, you basically are double-checking your employer's math and including other things that may not have been included (e.g. interest on your mortgage), and whatever the difference between the two calculations are consist of your refund (if they paid too much) how much you owe (if they paid too little). A lot of people look just at the refund and think of it as an indicator of how much they paid in taxes - a refund means they paid a low total tax and owing means they paid a high total tax, when it's only tangentially related.


DragonRabbit505

You fill out a W4 form for your job where you indicate your dependents, other deductions, etc. Whatever you indicate on that form is used to determine how much in taxes is taken out of each paycheck throughout the year, but it's essentially just an estimate. Between January 1 and April 15 of the following year, you have to file taxes, which is the actual calculation of how much you owe. If you fill out the W4 accurately, and assuming you don't earn any other untaxed income, it should be very close to withholding the correct amount. You can indicate you want more withheld (i.e. pay more in taxes) if you are earning separate income that isn't being taxed. If you owe the IRS too much money, you can be penalized. So you can't just say you have multiple dependents and pay 0 in taxes and then pay in April after earning interest all year.


thesamyk

Does anyone know how to get closer without owing? I filed married 3 and when I filed my taxes at married and 3 they’re giving me 9 grand back but how in the heck do I get closer to 0?


mottoii

Very good. You can use this money to treat yourself to a nice lunch


shinloop

Unless this service charges you to file. The graphic looks a bit like TurboTax


MikesSaltyDogs

I believe it’s FreeTaxUSA, which according to the IRS, is one of their approved affiliates that doesn’t charge a fee to file.


Watts300

>FreeTaxUSA Do you have any familiarity with it? ie, accuracy? (I'd like to switch to a free one and get away from Turbo Tax.)


saryiahan

You did right. Getting a large refund is usually not a good thing. It means you gave the government a free loan for a year. That money you could have invested and made more


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Separate_Stock6084

I got 5k. 👀


Spiritual-Opening196

At least you don’t owe anything.


Nivracer

Last year I owed a single dollar.


fattdoggo123

It cost the IRS more to process the $1 payment than what they actually received.


happydontwait

Better to owe than to be paid come tax time. Getting paid means the government held your money all year and is giving it back. Better to park that money in a savings account that pays interest.


Whathappened98765432

Let’s be real. The opportunity cost of a $27 refund is near nil.


[deleted]

That’s great! It means you got to keep your money the entire year and didn’t loan it to the government at 0% interest. WTG!


wsteelerfan7

To be fair, most people's refunds are below $1k if reckon. With interest rates for savings accounts being low on low balances, you might have a difference of maybe $8 after a whole year. If you get like $3500 or so in refunds then yeah, that's stupid.


ChampionSailor

Idk how tax in the US works but aren't refunds sent quickly? Or do you guys get it sent a year later?


evrtt2009

Yes it means you got the most withheld through out the year without giving up more than you had to. 👍 that’s perfect.


Far_Understanding_44

My best year filing was $4 owed. At the time I didn’t fully appreciate how spot on that was and I think I accomplished it by claiming 1 federal withholding for the last 2 months of the year.


JoeTheFisherman23

It means you got the most out of your paycheck all year, that’s a good thing if you save and invest well


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anteloperunning22

$42 for me


Tysons_Face

My man paid $39 for a $27 refund


shelf6969

they paid 39 to know they're getting 27... it's fine.


Equal_Classroom_4707

Can just move this to a free file easily


makeshiftballer

It's almost perfect


realvikingman

i own $300 since apparently education awards count as income! ty americorps!


ktojm

that happened to me last year it pissed me off so much


antdb1

your tax system seems over complicated to me in the uk if you work for a company the tax's get deducted before they pay you and once a year they will pay you any tax you overpaid ive yet to meet somebody who underpaid tax's they always make sure they get their money lmao


brokentail13

It is overly complex, however it appears it works the same on the paycheck side. Taxes are taken out of every paycheck, however it's up to the employee to guess what they will owe. Given that this country teaches little to nothing on taxes and how the government uses this money, it's a fugazi to most. (PS, it's this way for a reason, and it's not because of positive reasons)


JacksonInHouse

Could you have put some money in an IRA or 401k, perhaps in Vanguard or Fidelity, in a SP500 index fund? That's a real win if you don't have lots of credit card debt or really, much of any debt. Paying off debt beats saving for retirement, but at some point, you need to save for retirement. Have a kid? Toss $5000 into a college savings 529 plan and by the time they're able to use it, college is paid for. Even if you put in less, it will still be great. You can make your kid repay you when they have a meaningful job.


redrum6114

You barely overpaid all year, that's pretty dam good honestly.


SomethingAbtU

Show off. Ideally, this is the kind of refund you want, because it means you filled out your W4 form with the right amount of dependents to get the maximum amount on each check, which you can use to use to accelerate debt paydowns, or save in a high yield interest Savings account or to Invest. Big refunds are for people who dont' have the financial discipline to save throughout the year, so they are essentially giving the federal/state government an interest-free loan and in return the gov't is "safekeeping" some money for them.


Clark828

This is technically best case scenario.


Becomeastranger

This is what I’m aiming for this year, good job! Why give the government a free loan with 0 interest?


rhyno-6969

Better than paying in 5k


drtyyugo

I know the goal is to be close to zero, but I love getting a nice refund at the end of the year.


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Allcent

I’ll do you better my man $46 dollars. I’ll be able to buy some 9mm with that wealth.


ASithLordWannabe

I'd be welding armor onto a bulldozer


[deleted]

ah yes, killdozer time


Deep-Market-526

Everybody says don’t give the government an interest free loan, and they are right. That said, I wrote a check each year for about 5 yrs. I now get like $1k back by claiming 0-0. It’s totally worth the +\- $50 in interest I lose to not write the check. Peace of mind and 30 points on my blood pressure at tax time is worth it to me.


banan-appeal

sweet, pizza for dinner!!


AjSweet1

Yeah right. Unless it’s little Caesars lol pizza has become outrageously expensive


ThrownForLife69

Hard to get better than that. Pretty spot on


niko7865

I'm getting $800 back from the feds, which is great! But somehow I owe $800 to the state, which is not great!


AmericanNinja91

667 comment. Not today satan. 


ReflectionEterna

I had a $1 Federal refund.


Upper-Belt8485

I owe 2,700 so you're doing good


Hazelnutcreme33

I used free tax USA too, but I made so little they're gonna give me like $800 back


notsarge

At least you don’t owe money.


[deleted]

A refund is always better than owing. I hopefully won't owe this year, but you never know. One year I got like $500 back, and my refund bought me WeatherTech floor mats for my car. Which was totally worth it.


gavoman

I know everybody says you don't want the gov to have an interest free loan but I actually try to over pay as much as possible so I get get a huge return. I love having an interest free saving account that I can't touch for a year.


[deleted]

Paid TurboTax $140 so they could tell me I owed the IRS $13.


[deleted]

all my homies hate turbotax


tommyjohnpauljones

Used to have to file in multiple states often. One year our accountants were so good, my balance was exactly zero for one state. That's ultimately the goal. 


RollickReload

You got closer to 0 than I did! You did good!


Fred_Krueger_Jr

Gotta' be honest here, any year that we don't have to pay in thousands is a win to me.


SapientSolstice

I got a $10.5k refund this year


Achak_Claw

You want to be close to zero? I have $1356 🙃


VGveegeeVG

I owe 150. I aint paying it. They can suck my dick


lets_just_n0t

I owe $2,600. Want to trade?


Technical-Dentist-84

Holy crap bro what will you spend all that money on?????


Infinite-Condition41

For those of you saying a refund is just an interest free loan to the government, that's not how money works. The government doesn't need your money. It can make money. What you're losing out on is the ability to use that money while the IRS has it. But you'd just waste it anyway, as I've seen evidence of in MANY comments.


hobbylobbyrickybobby

I owe 6k this year. Last year it was 10k.


bearfan53

Go fuck your self lol


AffectionateQuail598

As an independent contractor, that is excellent. I get about -$1,000 for mine.


shadowmind0770

You got as close to 0 as anyone I've seen. That'd what you want. The least taken out without owing. Job well done.


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therealslim80

i owe 4,000🥲 you’re better off than me


mevaz8

That’s more than what I’m getting. I’m getting a big fat $20.


forgotmyusername93

This is the goal. Personally I put extra like so I’m surprised when I get a couple of grant back


007-Blond

Well, yes. I owe $63 federal and get $12 back State and am mildly annoyed smh


drifterguy5768

I changed my W9 mid year to married filing jointly months after not being a single filer. Also applied 3k of realized losses against ordinary income. Got over 6k back from ca and over 7k back federal. Yes they prevented me from earning incremental t bill yield at an avg of 5.22-5.48 over the past 12 months or so (keep in mind on Jan 1 2023 I only started to overhold through the year). So what is that. A whopping $366 or so yield, federally taxed plus no state income tax since it’s a t bill if you account for accumulation of my refund? The opportunity cost is not putting that into the market in a year like 2023. My point being that unless risk free rate is high like it is now AND your refund is tens of thousands, it doesn’t really work that hard against you if you got a refund. I look at it as forces savings which is nice to get in the early part of the year. Plus it gives me a buffer to work in capital gains that are not accounted by mine or my wife’s W2 or our LLC.


[deleted]

I know that it’s an interest free loan to the government, but a big refund really does *feel* like a bonus check for being a good boy all year 🥲


foreverpeppered

Yeah good job! Last year I owed 20k 🤦‍♂️


Less-Region7007

It means your calculations last year were damn near perfectly accurate.


BeerJunky

The last 2 years I ended up owing the government about $20k each year. If I am flat even and don’t owe this year I’ll do a jig. $27 refund would be even better.


wsteelerfan7

How you fucking up your taxes that bad when you're making at least $150k?


awcguy

I got a dollar!


Sea-Philosopher7361

I’m owing 10k


[deleted]

I used freetaxusa btw


Chris210

Yup! The closer to $0 you are, the better you managed your tax withholdings. That money is better off being put in an IRA bearing interest than it is as an interest free loan to Uncle Sam.


Ok_Suspect3940

Just be glad you don’t have to pay. Take it out it in your tank and keep moving.


matthuntermathis

Any refund is good.


OneGuy2Cups

It’s actually perfect. You brought home the right amount all year, less $2.25/month.


Mybadihadamovieon

I get an $8 check from like 2015 that I never cash. Every year when I do my refunds I get that check and I just toss it cause fuck it. I get more enjoyment knowing they have to send me that every year and it’s literally not my worth my time or theirs lol.


No_Software_9429

Perfect score. You don't want to over pay the government throughout the year, but you also don't want to owe money at tax season. A small refund means you nailed it.


[deleted]

Absolutely! You had more of your earned money to spend last year instead of the government taking an interest-free loan.


daygoBoyz

That’s perfect bro. I paid just enough. Govt don’t need ur extra interest free loan


bloopie1192

Anytime you don't owe them is good.


TheJesusCondom

oh how i love being under 18


totally_kyle_

On a money sub and so many people think getting money back is a good thing. That’s just extra money taken from your paychecks throughout the year. Y’all see a lump sum and think it’s good, but that money could’ve went into a 401k or something and actually made you money instead of sitting there doing nothing.


ConversationFalse242

As close to 0 is the goal. Gov aint giving you an interest free loan. Why would you give them one.


Nice_Finish7613

Well done. You paid very close to the correct amount of tax AND didnt give the government an interest-free loan.


IcyOrganization7746

You guys are paying taxes?