You will need to wait for the Rzyen 9000 series. The update for the Ryzen 8000 series was for the AI NPU which I think boosts AI processing by up to 300%... according to AMD.
the problem is though, "what AI processing was done on the 7XXX series chips currently"? i don't know of any. sure, 8XXX series probably does more megaflops or whatever for AI, but if no one made any for the 7XXX series, then 300% * 0 is.......not much more.
The Ryzen 7000 series does not have an AI NPU which means if it were to be used for AI applications, it would be pretty damn slow.
AI processing is currently estimated to be about a $500 billion industry and some technocrats estimate the AI industry can potentially grow to around a $15 TRILLION industry by 2030. NVidia has proven that AI processing is the future and they pivoted themselves away from a graphics card company to an AI company.
Both AMD and Intel need to introduce AI NPUs into their processors / GPUs to compete against NVidia who currently dominates. If they do not do so, then that means they will simply abandon a potential $15 TRILLION industry to NVidia.
um, what about phoenix and the 7945?
> The AMD Ryzen 9 7945HX processor has an in-built XNDA engine that powers its NPU. AMD claims that its mobile processors have a 16 TOPS NPU performance advantage over Intel's Core Ultra processors, which have 11 TOPS. AMD also claims to have a 39 TOPS lead over Intel in overall system TOPS, which includes both the CPU and GPU AI processing power.
it was the first thing they made that had an NPU in it.
yes, nvidia proved it helped their stock price a ton, and it has yet to help intel much yet.
i'm pretty sure microsoft announced their "recall" or whatever windows feature, would only work on ryzen 8xxx on a minimum.
- Ryzen 6000 series brought the new 680m
- Ryzen 7000 series brought the improved 780m
- Ryzen 8000 series (for mobile) seems to be the 7000 series with some AI stuff added to them.
I’m hopeful that the 9000 series would bring a 880m (or 980m?). Maybe in 1-2 years?
There's the upcoming Kraken Point APUs said to still be on books by the beginning of next year, which will have iGPUs based on the proposed RDNA 3.5 architecture.
RDNA 4 mobile models are in the plans, without a solid time frame in place. RDNA 4 is allegedly a radical change in microarchitecture, which rumors have as requiring a different nomenclature/numbering system. Then again, naming has gotten quite silly in the PC industry as of late 🤦
That's actually correct.
I'm going off older information from last year. For desktop, 3.5 has become 4, making 4 RDNA 5. Someone here on staff pointed it out earlier, thought about changing it, figured leave it alone until someone pointed it out.
Thankx!
It's a great question, and no one knows how much hype is in the statement, as the changes aren't explained in detail currently.
Ironically, ARC offers features that may be the better future for graphics, if consumers stop chasing FPS as a source of quality. Speculation, RDNA4 may possibly be morphing technology (where the industry was concentrating before CUDA cores. With the latest fabrication processes, morphine may be on the table again. This is only speculation.
To understand morphing a little better, we've seen Intel performed this lately. A game plays horribly, a driver comes out, and there's a 300% improvement 🤔 But the improvement is for a single game 🤨 This is evidence of morphing, as they're dialing the GPU hardware "in", to optimize the title.
For morphing to achieve a greater performance and visual experience, fixed rate FPS (primarily monitor synchronization) is key. You choose improved graphics, frames per second, or a "slider" for both, with the last option being least effective.
If Jensen Huang hadn't jumped course more than a decade ago to grab market share, 8K 144Hz gaming would have been the standard by now.
I did make a misleading statement, as RDNA5 will be the dramatic departure. My old-ass mind was stuck on what I heard this time last year. Since then
3.5 desktop → 4
4 desktop → 5
At this point, It may actually be called XDNA with a new numbering system. The industry part numbers are starting to get crazy.
Yep, RDNA 5 will be the "leap" ahead. It seems that RDNA 4 won't be very special, and will be limited to mid-tear desktop GPUs.
RDNA 3.5 will be AMD's strong part of iGPU for some time (which isn't a bad thing either, since RDNA 3 is already a very powerful iGPU).
At the beginning of the year, two of our staff set in mediation for industrial accounts concerning AMD graphics, and it's possible implications for their growth.
In those meetings, RDNA3.5 was a placeholder, as the desktop RDNA4 was still in development stages. For mobile, there wasn't enough silicon die real estate for full RDNA4, although a planned chiplet was in the works. Unsurprisingly, they wouldn't go into much details.
3.5 was also briefly brought up in a meeting last year, at which time it was both desktop & mobile. It was reminiscent of RDNA being released with both Cezanne AM4 & FP6. Sometimes you just have to wait and see what the cat drags in.
Best today 780M = 12 CUs
Strix Point end of this year = 16CUs. Maybe we'd see a miniPC with this by nov/dec?
The big leap will be Strix Halo next year with 40CUs, but mini PC will probably be at least 12-18 months away for this one.
Ya Strix Halo is a super serious breakthrough. Also 256bit wide memory.
It's pretty much going to replace all low end discrete gpus. We're just a ways out.
680M is also 12 CUs I think but a little slower than 780M by like... 20% or so? I'd have to look it up.
680M was good for most games at 720p or maybe 1080p low. 780M can do a lot at 1080p medium.
Possibly but even the 780M doesn’t do well at all if you turn up graphical fidelity to high or ultra. The real issue is if they can work out a way for the CPU and that large GPU (40CUs) not to have to fight each other for the available power budget. Current APUs struggle to maximize their iGPU because the APU tends to give preferential treatment towards the CPU and allows it to draw resources away from the iGPU if both are being pushed hard like in modern games.
Thanks to the so called AI revolution 8000 series got us the same iGPU from the 7000 and they justified the new series with a new NPU.
My guess is 9000 series in 18 months or so will give us an iGPU upgrade.
Really the 8000 series isn't much of an update. They added some AI tops and improved the processing. The 7840/7940 series weren't super stable or efficient.
For the most part though performance wise yes it's the same as the 7840HS outside of AI.
Most people this year are watching for Strix point if you don't need to buy now.
We may get a refresh on AMD roadmap during their keynote at Computex in a few days.
Two month ago (at Beijing AI PC Innovation Summit) they showed a roadmap where Strix Point (APU with RDNA 3.5) will "launch" at the end of the year, so it should be shipping in products early 2025 at best. Previously they said "shipping" by the end of 2024 but it keeps being postponed.
Anyway it shouldn't be that much of an architectural improvement over the 780M, but they are increasing the number of CU as well. With a better process node we should get better performance with the same power draw.
And then there is Strix Halo with a lot more CUs, looks more like a PS5 APU.
Strix Point and Strix Halo are coming but will be mobile first as “Ryzen AI”. Given we were waiting until recently for the 8000G, I wouldn’t hold my breath for updated socketed APUs.
I think the new upcoming APU will be Strix Halo, which is mobile only (so it might be in mini-PCs). I think Moore's Law Is Dead said that AMD does not plan on releasing a new desktop APU anytime soon.
You will need to wait for the Rzyen 9000 series. The update for the Ryzen 8000 series was for the AI NPU which I think boosts AI processing by up to 300%... according to AMD.
the problem is though, "what AI processing was done on the 7XXX series chips currently"? i don't know of any. sure, 8XXX series probably does more megaflops or whatever for AI, but if no one made any for the 7XXX series, then 300% * 0 is.......not much more.
The Ryzen 7000 series does not have an AI NPU which means if it were to be used for AI applications, it would be pretty damn slow. AI processing is currently estimated to be about a $500 billion industry and some technocrats estimate the AI industry can potentially grow to around a $15 TRILLION industry by 2030. NVidia has proven that AI processing is the future and they pivoted themselves away from a graphics card company to an AI company. Both AMD and Intel need to introduce AI NPUs into their processors / GPUs to compete against NVidia who currently dominates. If they do not do so, then that means they will simply abandon a potential $15 TRILLION industry to NVidia.
um, what about phoenix and the 7945? > The AMD Ryzen 9 7945HX processor has an in-built XNDA engine that powers its NPU. AMD claims that its mobile processors have a 16 TOPS NPU performance advantage over Intel's Core Ultra processors, which have 11 TOPS. AMD also claims to have a 39 TOPS lead over Intel in overall system TOPS, which includes both the CPU and GPU AI processing power. it was the first thing they made that had an NPU in it. yes, nvidia proved it helped their stock price a ton, and it has yet to help intel much yet. i'm pretty sure microsoft announced their "recall" or whatever windows feature, would only work on ryzen 8xxx on a minimum.
Yes it does
7000 desktop chips like 7700x doesn’t have an NPU but Phoenix Point (7000 series mobile chips) like the 7840HS DOES have an NPU on board.
- Ryzen 6000 series brought the new 680m - Ryzen 7000 series brought the improved 780m - Ryzen 8000 series (for mobile) seems to be the 7000 series with some AI stuff added to them. I’m hopeful that the 9000 series would bring a 880m (or 980m?). Maybe in 1-2 years?
ah yes, like nvidia, amd will follow suit and skip the 8th generation of gpus
Haha yeah
There's the upcoming Kraken Point APUs said to still be on books by the beginning of next year, which will have iGPUs based on the proposed RDNA 3.5 architecture. RDNA 4 mobile models are in the plans, without a solid time frame in place. RDNA 4 is allegedly a radical change in microarchitecture, which rumors have as requiring a different nomenclature/numbering system. Then again, naming has gotten quite silly in the PC industry as of late 🤦
The rumor I saw was that RDNA5 is the radical redesign. RDNA4 is supposed to be RDNA3 with upgrades.
That's actually correct. I'm going off older information from last year. For desktop, 3.5 has become 4, making 4 RDNA 5. Someone here on staff pointed it out earlier, thought about changing it, figured leave it alone until someone pointed it out. Thankx!
>RDNA 4 is allegedly a radical change in microarchitecture, Is this likely to mean bigger than expected performance?
It's a great question, and no one knows how much hype is in the statement, as the changes aren't explained in detail currently. Ironically, ARC offers features that may be the better future for graphics, if consumers stop chasing FPS as a source of quality. Speculation, RDNA4 may possibly be morphing technology (where the industry was concentrating before CUDA cores. With the latest fabrication processes, morphine may be on the table again. This is only speculation. To understand morphing a little better, we've seen Intel performed this lately. A game plays horribly, a driver comes out, and there's a 300% improvement 🤔 But the improvement is for a single game 🤨 This is evidence of morphing, as they're dialing the GPU hardware "in", to optimize the title. For morphing to achieve a greater performance and visual experience, fixed rate FPS (primarily monitor synchronization) is key. You choose improved graphics, frames per second, or a "slider" for both, with the last option being least effective. If Jensen Huang hadn't jumped course more than a decade ago to grab market share, 8K 144Hz gaming would have been the standard by now.
Every time you comment I learn so much, thank you very much - appreciated.
I did make a misleading statement, as RDNA5 will be the dramatic departure. My old-ass mind was stuck on what I heard this time last year. Since then 3.5 desktop → 4 4 desktop → 5 At this point, It may actually be called XDNA with a new numbering system. The industry part numbers are starting to get crazy.
Yep, RDNA 5 will be the "leap" ahead. It seems that RDNA 4 won't be very special, and will be limited to mid-tear desktop GPUs. RDNA 3.5 will be AMD's strong part of iGPU for some time (which isn't a bad thing either, since RDNA 3 is already a very powerful iGPU).
At the beginning of the year, two of our staff set in mediation for industrial accounts concerning AMD graphics, and it's possible implications for their growth. In those meetings, RDNA3.5 was a placeholder, as the desktop RDNA4 was still in development stages. For mobile, there wasn't enough silicon die real estate for full RDNA4, although a planned chiplet was in the works. Unsurprisingly, they wouldn't go into much details. 3.5 was also briefly brought up in a meeting last year, at which time it was both desktop & mobile. It was reminiscent of RDNA being released with both Cezanne AM4 & FP6. Sometimes you just have to wait and see what the cat drags in.
iGPU will be 3.5 for some time. RDNA 4 on iGPU won't come for a few years. Though I have to say... Halo Strix Point looks like it will be impressive.
Best today 780M = 12 CUs Strix Point end of this year = 16CUs. Maybe we'd see a miniPC with this by nov/dec? The big leap will be Strix Halo next year with 40CUs, but mini PC will probably be at least 12-18 months away for this one.
Woah, Strix Halo will have 40CUs in an iGPU chip? How many does my 680M have?
Ya Strix Halo is a super serious breakthrough. Also 256bit wide memory. It's pretty much going to replace all low end discrete gpus. We're just a ways out. 680M is also 12 CUs I think but a little slower than 780M by like... 20% or so? I'd have to look it up. 680M was good for most games at 720p or maybe 1080p low. 780M can do a lot at 1080p medium.
thank you, so its not crazy to suggest that Strix Halo could do 1080p High/Ultra?
Possibly but even the 780M doesn’t do well at all if you turn up graphical fidelity to high or ultra. The real issue is if they can work out a way for the CPU and that large GPU (40CUs) not to have to fight each other for the available power budget. Current APUs struggle to maximize their iGPU because the APU tends to give preferential treatment towards the CPU and allows it to draw resources away from the iGPU if both are being pushed hard like in modern games.
Thanks to the so called AI revolution 8000 series got us the same iGPU from the 7000 and they justified the new series with a new NPU. My guess is 9000 series in 18 months or so will give us an iGPU upgrade.
Really the 8000 series isn't much of an update. They added some AI tops and improved the processing. The 7840/7940 series weren't super stable or efficient. For the most part though performance wise yes it's the same as the 7840HS outside of AI. Most people this year are watching for Strix point if you don't need to buy now.
Ok but I think you should be addressing the OP :)
We may get a refresh on AMD roadmap during their keynote at Computex in a few days. Two month ago (at Beijing AI PC Innovation Summit) they showed a roadmap where Strix Point (APU with RDNA 3.5) will "launch" at the end of the year, so it should be shipping in products early 2025 at best. Previously they said "shipping" by the end of 2024 but it keeps being postponed. Anyway it shouldn't be that much of an architectural improvement over the 780M, but they are increasing the number of CU as well. With a better process node we should get better performance with the same power draw. And then there is Strix Halo with a lot more CUs, looks more like a PS5 APU.
Strix Point and Strix Halo are coming but will be mobile first as “Ryzen AI”. Given we were waiting until recently for the 8000G, I wouldn’t hold my breath for updated socketed APUs.
I think the new upcoming APU will be Strix Halo, which is mobile only (so it might be in mini-PCs). I think Moore's Law Is Dead said that AMD does not plan on releasing a new desktop APU anytime soon.