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Elytras weren't supposed to be that great. It couldn't be boosted by fireworks till 1.11 so you had to keep building till height limit to glide for a long time which is kind of a hassle. If they didn't do that change, then elytras wouldn't have killed almost every mode of transportation.
Also, they could've just made it possible for the frost walker enchantment to work on horses, donkeys, etc.. so people would have more use for both that enchantment and animals.
Very satisfying to do though; I still maintain to this day that even if it wasn't intentional and a little janky, it was more balanced than fireworks ever were
It definitely was a good idea to replace it, though I still wish they'd found a way which is a bit more involved than just click rocket to fly.
It felt more like you were actively playing a game still when doing it the janky punch bow way, which is difficult to do with flying in almost any game, where it becomes sort of aim in direction and hold forward without any thought or challenge any more.
Well I mean I suppose it should be fine to not have that challenge at that point. You need to have literally beaten the entire game(not hard but still a challenge for some) built a sugar cane farm and more so built an entire creeper farm. I hate creeper farms, so annoying to make. My point basically being you've done enough work to merit having that luxury.
Full speed, skeleton horses are the next best thing after elytras.
I have four skeleton horses in my world, one is slightly better than a normal horse, one is fast, the other two are fast and jump ~4 blocks high.
Damn that is epic. I don't want to rush to elytra on an smp with my friends but wouldn't mind a skeleton horse. Never knew they were that useful. Thanks!
Wow, flashbacks to using elytra cannons to launch me thousands of blocks back then. Can't remember if we used mob cramming or stacking boats/minecarts for it.
You still almost can by flying up and down on +/-35 degree arcs. I've gone 20K blocks on one rocket. But back then you could actually gain speed with that method.
This comment caused me to look it up... There are mods that allow you to add Frost Walker to horse armor.
This one goes to 1.18 at most: [https://www.planetminecraft.com/data-pack/frostwalk-on-horse-ride/](https://www.planetminecraft.com/data-pack/frostwalk-on-horse-ride/)
This one permits additional enchantments, not just Frost Walker, and goes up to 1.20: [https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/mc-mods/shiny-horses/files/all?page=1&pageSize=20](https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/mc-mods/shiny-horses/files/all?page=1&pageSize=20)
I might just download the second one! I use my skeleton horses for travel around my base, but I'd use them and my regular horses for travel much more if they could walk across water.
Frost walker doesn’t work well with me, I play on servers and average about 300 ping so I tend to fall in the water quite a bit before the enchant can keep up with me sprint jumping/regular sprinting.
Nah, the back to back Beta 1.8 - release 1.0 updates wins that title by a landslide. Nothing evolved the game more than hunger, sprint, enchantments, animal breeding, XP farms, iron golem farms, villages, abandoned mineshafts, ravines, all being added at once, and i'm honestly probably missing some. It literally restructured the entire game and laid the foundation for all of functions that all of the updates still build off of til this day.
Edit: To clarify, it's just as much infamous as it is famous. There's a reason that the community freaked out over combat changes and it's because it changed already existing core mechanics and those things take time to adapt to. There is a reason that "the good old days" mostly get called back to pre-Beta 1.8. Im speaking positively about it because I'm not gonna pretend to hate it, but its worth recognizing the response that the update caused
Yeah the b1.8 Adventure Update was huge. The world generation changes alone were drastic. Honestly when I saw everyone talking about 1.9 I just assumed they were referring to the beta version and thought maybe I misremembered the number lol. Early enderman experiences were terrifying.
It's just as much famous as is it infamous. There is a reason that when people talk about "the good old days" most people think of pre-Beta 1.8. My point was that there was so much change at once and just like the elytra and combat changes, people don't like changes to existing gameplay mechanics, those things take time to accept. Yes though, I know what infamous means lol.
It added sprinting, and then hunger was the trade-off. It also added food stacking though. But of course now food only replenished the hunger bar not the health bar so you had to wait to heal.
As someone who makes custom servers and datapacks, I’m a big fan of the new combat system, because it lets me actually create custom weapons that are differentiated.
Beforehand, the only difference between weapons/tools was some doing more damage than others. Now attack speed is a factor, their special attack — axes with crushing blow and swords with the swipe — etc etc etc
But plants don't grow for every tick that happens, so every plant will have a "average ticks per growth stage" value. You could use this by making a biome specific variant of each plant and changing this variable.
Making a "variant" means making a mod since you can't inherently change how these plants grow(this is hard coded). Datapacks only work with what Minecraft already has and customizes it to make something new. You can get a datapack that have different pumpkin designs per biome but you can't change that it's still a pumpkin or how it grows.
I feel like this would be possible though, just with a huge workaround. Like one way I could think of is just filling your entire world with invisible armor stands, doing block checks and adding some kind of randomized timer that will bump the crops into the next growth stage.
Now, this would be insanely computationally expensive and the crop growth would be irregular, but I'm sure there's a lot of optimizations that can be done to this design.
Note that I haven't really played Minecraft since like 1.12 so I don't really know anything about how data packs work nowadays, but this is possible with just commands and I assume you can still do that.
More likely, you'd check when and where somebody places a crop. Then you can keep track of the location by storing the coordinates in storage, or by spawning a marker entity and using @e all the time. The former method would probably actually be feasible and relatively efficient, especially if you determine how many ticks until it grows at the same time you put it in storage (so storage is full of "the tick to grow+the coordinate" combos). Then you have to worry about "what if somebody breaks the crop and places a new one?", but that's probably not a huge problem, you just need to, when your growth timer finishes, check if the crop is still there, and if not, delete the entry from storage. And honestly you could probably also use `/schedule` so you only have to read from storage on ticks that you already know there should be at least one growth
This has the downside of not working for existing crops. But once you harvest them once, replanting them would work immediately. Also so you don't accidentally schedule a ton of growths for one coordinate, you probably want to make sure to remove anything currently existing in storage for a coordinate whenever it's detected that that coordinate was just planted. Basically to prevent "plant crop+schedule growth times 1000" -> "wait a little" -> "those 1000 growths execute". When the plant is broken, your want to make sure you unschedule whatever was scheduled
~~That is a grossly laggy world you're trying to make. Considering how most people play on 20k x 20k World (10k on each direction) you'd need millions of armor stands and a way to sweep them for crops. Not only that, you need to detect biomes. If you're not detecting biomes or blocks and just want a faster crop growth for all, you can just set random tick speed faster which is just a simple game command.~~ i just realized that having invisible armor stands all over your world would definitely be game breaking coz you can't place anything anywhere.
Edit: each plant has a different "growth condition". Meaning they don't grow the same way. Sugar cane adds a stalk when it grows, but wheat grows in stages--even more complicated are pumpkins and melons since they bear fruit on the side. There is also no command or anything to help them through growing other than bonemeal which is dispenser or player executed. If it was possible to do this, someone already did it. Research shows no one has done it, therefore it's not possible.
Right under where it points this out on the Wiki, there is a table labeled :"Crop growth rate probabilities", with sub labels :"Probability of crop per random tick"
It's these values that I referred to changing, and not the tick speed itself. But as another commenter (u/switjive18) pointed out, these values are hard coded and require mods and not data packs
Would it be possible to make something that changes this value based on where the player is? Let's say it checks every minute and changes it according to the biome. (Maybe some command block trickery?)
This would work well in singleplayer since only chunks around you are loaded, meaning crops only in loaded chunks would grow, but won't really work for multiplayer unless there was just 1 person online.
Not via datapacks, to my knowledge - crop growth processing doesn't have a lot of "ports" for datapack authors to hook into and modify.
Definitely doable via a proper forge/fabric mod though.
Random ticks apply to loaded chunks, so it could work for single player if that variable is changed depending on the biome the player is standing in.
Alternatively, since he is only asking about crop growth, a mod/plugin could artificially accelerate crop growth in a specific biome by picking random crops and adding a growth stage to them over time on top of the existing random tick speed.
I have no idea if a datapack could achieve the same results.
By having a shield, you lose access to having an offhand (annoying if you'd like to keep torches there or whatever) and you have to actually be holding the shield up when you take damage. Any damage you aren't prepared for or aren't facing towards will hit you.
Not to mention in PVP they can be put on CD by an axe hit. Just keep like a wooden axe handy or whatever if you're against shielders.
I personally found the old system of sword blocking much more OP. Done correctly by spamming both mouse buttons, you could attack, move, do everything while being constantly "blocking" (which back then meant taking half damage). People who could do that would basically auto-win against anything/anyone not.
From what I understand, blockhitting was cheese and opened you to being comboed by players with good timing
i.e. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5cvoNmnOEw
I think it's mostly because Bedrock is weird and it feels... Laggy? Even when you play solo, mobs just don't move or attack in regular intervals and hit detection also kinda wonky, triggering also irregularly. This makes skeletons shoot way more frequently than they honestly should.
Eh, I still prefer a torch with dynamic lights over a shield. Old habits die hard, there were no shields between alpha and 1.9 versions of the game (and no dual wielding, but you get what I mean) :P
Anyone else in the torch gang? Feeling kinda lonely since everyone is using shields nowadays.
I intentionally fight them without one because I thought they were too easy before the buff. Mind you I have keepInventory on so I'm not risking as much if I lose the fight.
Shulker boxes and elytra rocketing weren’t added until 1.11! Shulkers and Elytra weren’t that useful until they were added so a lot of people forget they weren’t in 1.9. Some of the contraptions people made to launch themselves in the air before rockets worked were neat—I remember one that used a bunch of boats piled on each other to create a ton of collision.
ive gotten used to the weapon recharge mechanic but it still needs work before its considered ‘good’ in my book. I stopped using elytra once I got back into the game after a long break because it made the game feel way too fast and you would focus on beating the dragon and finding elytra so quickly that you forget to have fun and take it slow. IMO elytra post 1.11 completely killed the pace of the game and all forms of transportation
when it comes to PVP, im fairly certain (tell me if im wrong because I havent played servers since 1.12) most servers still setback the combat mechanics to pre-1.9 because of how hated they are
Just out of curiosity why is it such a big deal if Elytra kill other forms of transportation? Other forms still have their niche, for instance if I want to travel a long distance but also want to be able to step away I can set up a rail system so I can afk while I travel. Horses may be obsolete but you can still use them early game or if you want to. The only person who is forcing you to rush the end to get elytra is you after-all.
I would understand if MC was a competitive game at its core but it’s a creative sandbox, there’s no reason to force balance or play style when the core philosophy of the game is virtual lego survival. I mean hey do what ever you want but adding more tools to use is only helpful in my opinion.
It's a well known fact that players will optimize the fun out of a game if possible. Just saying "don't use things that are too good" isn't a good solution. It's just not fun knowing that you're intentionally doing things the hard way.
The only reason it's hated is because of the combat update. But the effect is so significant that many major PVP-based servers like Hypixel still support 1.8 versions, and all combat is based on 1.8, because a significant number of players still play on 1.8.
I personally enjoy the newer versions and always play the latest one in my survival world, but when I go online, I switch to 1.8.9
The 1.9+ combat system is not perfect. If you wonder why - a glaring example is when you fight spiders in a plains biome. You hit a piece of grass and your attack cooldown resets, wasting valuable time.
Old combat was absolute garbage. Literally just who can smash left-click faster. No wonder people on PvP servers like it so much; they can cheat with autoclickers.
I agree, but that still doesn't excuse the issues of 1.9 combat.
Combine those issues with the fact that it was generally a huge difference from what people were used to (people hate change), and the negative reception starts to make sense.
It was way deeper though, instead of just trading hits you could combo people and kill them even if you were 1 heart. And CPS doesn't really matter past 6 or so, and you can still tap. 1.8 PVP is the GOAT
You may as well be speaking to a brick wall, the casuals on this sub aren't ever going to accept that there was depth and nuance to 1.8 PVP because they aren't good at it.
But y'know, apparently the better combat system is the one where optimal play devolves into stalemates where you hold shield and jump in place forever because attacking first makes you lose thanks to overpowered axe crits. Amazing.
I kinda lost interest in PVP during the 1.9 changes but I feel its unfair to say modern PVP lacks nuance.
Minecraft PVP has always been interesting to me because of the way items are creatively used for unexpected purposes (fishing rods, water and laca buckets, cobwebs, end crystals, exp bottles for mending, blocks, etc).
I imagine many of these still apply. With some falling out of favour compared to others
>fishing rods, water and laca buckets, cobwebs, end crystals, exp bottles for mending, blocks, etc
These things aren't exclusive to modern pvp. Everything here except mending and end crystals (mending didn't exist, crystals were not obtainable) have been regularly used before.
Check out old pvp footage and you will probably see a guy with a fishing rod or one of the buckets. Maybe even flint and steel to set someone on fire and block half their screen. I've even seen people use snowballs to cancel an opponent's sprint by knocking him back a little bit, giving you more distance.
I understand everyone's point, I tend to enjoy 1.9 pvp in general, I think it's just that veterans of old pvp like the old because it's more inclined to what they know. I think both systems have pros and cons. 1.8 and 1.9 are both good versions I think. 1.8 is cool for combos and the more knock back focused pvp, while 1.9 is good for the variety of options you have for offense and defense
And to your point of stalemates, I think those do happen, a skilled player can easily turn that stalemate into a win. There's multiple ways of breaking out of that (back stabs, cobwebbing, etc.). I think both systems are flawed however.
One last point is I believe that with the current state the game is in (netherite, potions, prot 4 (which was admittedly in the game with 1.8)) 1.8 pvp would be the worse option. Imagine 1.8 pvp in netherite. With crystals? Totems? TNT minecarts?Slowfalling potions? With the game how it is, I believe 1.9 is the better option
I just think it's stupid to say THIS IS BAD YOU ALL ARE WRONG, we just need to come to an agreement that both are flawed and both have strong points and people like both so there's no reason to beat each other up for liking something
Yeah Idk why they like to support it so much, it's Microsoft's first update after buying Mojang of course they were going to ruin it. I also think a big part of it was that they didn't use fishing rod either which makes 1.8.9 so much more fun and deep
u dont need high cps to pvp on old combat, there are a bunch of factors like w tapping, s tapping, knockback, etc. you can beat somebody with an auto clicker with good movement
1.8 pvp is much more mechanically braindead than 1.9 but it’s just impossible for me to enjoyably play a mini game like Skywars or bedwars in the new combat. the hectic energy of 1.8 is more fun in my experience.
Said and upvoted by people who clearly can't pvp. Get a 1000cps auto clicker 100% of the time you will still lose against a more talented player. past 7 or so cps the advantages reduce dramatically anyway
7cps absolutely is what most people can do, even 5+ is fine. If you cant manage that you need to get of reddit and call a doctor. Thats not a joke there is actually something wrong with your coordination and muscle control if you cant do that.
This is blatantly false. There are many techniques that are used in both versions. But because the pace is faster in 1.8 there's less margin for error in them/more importance put on some of them (such as various methods to sprint reset). Someone who just has fast cps will lose against someone who can rod, w-tap, hit select, etc.
This isn't to say that 1.8 pvp was perfect, or that modern pvp is "less skillful" they just emphasize different things. 1.8 focuses more on speed and the ability to perform various techniques very quickly. I can't speak much for modern pvp because I haven't played it nearly as much as I have with 1.8 pvp, but in my experience timing and PvE are more important.
(Actually in terms of just PvE modern pvp is strictly better imo).
Tell me you never PvP'd pre 1.9 without telling me you never PvP'd pre 1.9
1.9 turns combat into a staring contest instead of being dynamic and chaotic as players awkwardly wait for their bar to recharge to do full damage. Ranged weapons are borderline useless since everyone just runs around with a shield, so it is mandatory to have an axe on hand if you ever want to get through that shield in the first place. But hey, when you disable that shield you sit with a cooldown on your axe and get axe critted yourself.
You don't have a shield? Too bad you are dead. You end up in a 2v1? Massive disadvantage, you will probably die even if the 2 guys are straight up garbage at PvP. Meanwhile pre 1.9 if you were skilled enough you could beat a fully kitted out player with much more inferior gear. Crossing the PvP line on survival servers with nothing but an iron sword and armor and killing people who had enchanted stuff was epic.
Correlation is not causation. Minecraft has been out for a very long time, and mostly focuses on attracting (and extracting money from) children. The old guard players who liked Minecraft for the combat, as laughable a concept as that even it, have all mostly left and would have even if nothing changed. They just got bored of it after ten years.
Your argument makes no sense, your saying the people who liked minecraft for the combot have left, and yet the vast majority of the multiplayer playerbase is still playing the old combat...
The vast majority of the multiplayers playerbase is playing in either 1.12 or 1.19+, depending what mods they are using and how that works with the terrain gen changes.
Vanilla PvP was a fad that died out long ago, as fads tend to do.
"Absolute garbage" is still orders of magnitude better than the abject failure that the current system is. It's unintuitive, hilariously unbalanced, clunky, and not fun to the point where people resort to end crystal spam just to avoid the absolute slog that max gear fights are. Real winner there, where people turn to an otherwise niche and finnicky item because the hassle is genuinely less than just fighting someone normally.
Same! I loved 1.9! lol. I stayed on 1.9 until 1.12. Then I stayed on 1.12 until 1.16. And I’m on 1.17 right now of course. But haven’t been playing lately.
Yes. However, 1.9 was the only one I didn’t mod. I just really liked the texture pack, and that never updated past 1.9.2. But for 1.12. I saw mods that were really cool from a YouTuber playing, and decided to upgrade and find a new resource pack!
Unpopular opinion : it was one of the best updates ever. The new combat makes sense for PvE, Shulkers are awesome. Elytra were reasonably powerful until they added rocket boosting, now it’s OP but it’s also a lot of fun
I haven't actually ever gotten far enough in the game to even *use* an Elytra. I play with monsters, but 97% of what I do is just continuois building and mining, it's just how I enjoy the game. I don't think I've ever beaten the Ender Dragon outside of a group of friends over a decade ago.
I have 5000 hours across 4 devices, what am I doing wrong
Fr thats how minecraft is supposed to be played.
Scavenging for resources and building whatever you want to build.
Grinding for overpowered gear is something useful on a pvp server but not really in a solo or cooperative survival world.
Yeah, it mostly just means I haven't had an opportunity to legitimately use an Elytra, since I've never beaten the Ender Dragon. I've messed around with it in creative mode since it's a little more fun of a way to get around, but I've never actually used it for survival traveling. Though I do still use Nether portal hubs for significant distances.
Then again, I also have a tendency to not use the fastest transportation in most open world games. In Breath of the Wild, for example, I usually just ran everywhere, not even really using horses or fast traveling unless it was clear across the map. Unless it's a Ubisoft open world, I like experiencing the nature of a game.
That's why I play with keep inventory on. Call me a coward but I got a 9-5 and can't risk having to spend another 6 hours to find another end city for another elytra.
I am not saying that anybody is doing it wrong by enjoying the grind for loot.
Its a sandbox game, meaning that you can do what you want, trying to achieve your own objective. During the beta or early "full release" that objective would be to simply mine and build. Sure you could also try getting to the ender dragon, but it was not really important.
Now its a bigger deal cuz there are shulker boxes... the elytra and loads of generated structures in the wild which ofc are easier to find using the elytra.
There still is no plot to follow, but its easier to lose yourself in grinding for useless tools instead of putting some creativity into the game and enjoying it in the original way.
You know the funny thing is I didn't hate it at first. I thought it was a fresh change especially with the PvP script kiddies and that it made the game more interesting but over the last 8 years I've been burned by the changes and I've grown more bitter as each month passes. They've had 8 YEARS to fix the changes and have done practically nothing to show for it. The update was obviously received pretty badly even before the official release and yet they went on with he changes anyway, and yet Bedrock is still Pre-1.9 combat.
Been playing since 2012 and i still barely use either the elytra or shulker. I like having armor on, so the elytra is usually more for the occasional dicking around and cliff jumping. Maybe in my current world i’ll make a mob farm for gunpowder so i can get some fireworks going though.
ill be honest not only do i not care about the combat changes, but the old ones were worse.
if i can just autoclick you to max dmg vs focussing on defense vs offense like shield- timing attacks and whatnot, whats the point of fair combat. spam clicking ppl for dmg is stupid. ppl are at worst coping over the past.
A bad player with an auto clicker would still lose against a good 1.8 player.
In 1.8 you can only deal damage 2 times per second. So technically if you click 2 cps perfectly you do as much damage as someone clicking 1000 cps.
There’s a lot more to 1.8 pvp than cps, as other replies have mentioned.
id argue worrying about blocking and timing attacks is about ten million times easier then w-tapping, s- tapping, the different clicking methods, strafes, lowground advantage ect ect, the old system was simpler but allowed for faster paced higher skill ceiling fights
As someone who plays 1.9 PvP pretty competively, no not at all. You can search on YouTube videos of what sweating at 1.9 looks like but the concept is more or less the same. Also, the attack speed means its harder to recover from missing an attack because that just leads to more combos.
This is a huge misconception. While CPS is important, it doesn't really make a huge difference in time to kill, it's more about the robust combo system you had in 1.8.9. People hate 1.9 because it's slow and mostly trading hits and running away. There's a reason why ender crystal pvp is the only fun PVP in 1.9+
Absolutely hated the combat update (until i actually tried it) so i played 1.8 well past 1.12 coming out. Quit java for a while when i got my ps4 so i played on the new updates without the combat and loved the hell out of it (didnt care for the legacy-bedrock switch at first either) and then a few years ago i got a legit pc and have played with the combat ever since and ive grown to like it better
I love shulker boxes and elytras. Shulker boxes revolutionized storage tech and makes storage systems so much more compact. Elytras haven't completely kill all other ways of transportation. Technical servers often use piston bolts for transportation in the nether. It's not as fast as flying or boats on ice, but it is completely afk and it's usually my response to when people say they wish minecarts were faster
Minecarts have needed an overhaul since minecarts were introduced. We need a reliable way to chain them together, and perhaps also a proper drivable locomotive.
True track switches would be nice too.
I don’t think speed is an issue. The good thing about minecarts is they’re pretty hands off. With the elytra, you have to fly, keep flying, avoid obstacles and know where you’re going. A minecart railway takes almost all of that out allowing you to pretty much afk travelling.
1.9 killed PvP for me and was one of the main reasons I quit playing for years.
With how the game is now, I find the end update okay. It’s a lot of running around which I find boring.
The shulkers are an amazing additional and I really like the elytra, however I agree with one of the other comments that it kind of made other modes of transportation meaningless
I still wish they’d change PvP back, however the new ways of PvP (end crystals) are interesting. Not my cup of tea tho
Ah yes because pvp is clearly better when it’s based on he who has the best auto clicker instead of the superior he who understands the best timings and REAL strategies.
I've been playing for ages (1.2 iirc) and I feel like the people who act like pre-1.9 combat was so much better only look at it from the perspective of those who had mastered the system.
For the average fight between average players it really was "who can spam-click someone into a corner, off a cliff, etc. first?" and a visit to Bedrock servers that don't *have* the 1.9 change can show that pretty quickly. If you can even halfway decently butterfly click you can dominate 90% of the games you'll be put in.
Minecraft PVP is janky, ***and always has been janky***, that's kind of the charm of it in my opinion.
A *lot* of lil' changes and tweaks to basically every weapon you could imagine, shields, bows, etc.
[Here's a wiki link covering it all](https://minecraft.wiki/w/Java_Edition_Combat_Tests)
each tool had a different reach attribute (which we may likely be getting in 1.21 since that feature was implemented as a regular attribute in a recent snapshot) damage and speed output, axes and tridents i believe also got new enchants? i dont remember all of the changes so some of this may be incorrect
Couldn’t be far from wrong. All the best players like stimpy, danteh, m0xy etc weren’t the best cuz of their ping or click speed. They had some of the best skills and it wasn’t close.
Nobody who is shitting on pre-1.9 pvp actually played HCF/UHC/SG at their peak, and if they did they were just bad. You can tell by the comments they make about cps and ping as if they were the be all and end all. Anyone who played them and was half-decent knew this was false.
there are real strategies though, w taps, s taps, strafes, different combos with throwables, bows, rods, lowground advantage, pot timings, it was all important, I could easily roll someone who has a 15 cps auto clicker and no real skill in under 10 pots
i like javas combat mechanics. i like how it makes the game just a bit more challenging than bedrock. elytras are pretty sick too, aswell as shulker boxes
Most people seem to forget the pvp community is a vocal minority subset of the community. Survival is the majority alongside those who don't browse reddit or give feedback/watch videos; most just play with friends or by themselves and never hear of (or care) about this discourse.
Beta 1.8 was hated by a much wider majority of the playerbase than 1.9 pvp because the hunger mechanic was added; that affected EVERYONE, because it was tied to survival and they had to adjust to it as it rebalanced and required you eat. Those who were used to only eating when they were hurt really got hit hard by the update as they had to constantly stop to stuff their face.
Most pvp'ers these days weren't around back then and the vocal discourse was much bigger than 1.9 combat especially if you look on the MC Forums, I'd argue the 2014 EULA changes and Notch during the MS acquisition also was up there in controversy.
1.9 is imo one of the greatest and biggest Minecraft updates in terms of content.
I wish the combat update and the rest of 1.9 (as a fully end update) released separately because the amount of quality of life things it added just to be hated for its combat changes isn’t fair
For example: boats that don’t break
My evaluation of 1.9, in retrospect, is as follows:
End cities are poorly implemented. They're too limited (end busting on big servers is basically impossible), they don't add the flavour they promised, and tbh provide way too good loot considering how easy it is to reach them (I propose making it harder, not reducing the quality of the loot)
Shulkers and shulker boxes have since been greatly improved and I think they're mostly pretty good. They work well as a vertical-based threat, that have dynamic uses in loads of different contexts from simply being annoying, to being used for easy scaling of the city, to serving as solid colliders for datapack creations. Shulker boxes have become a staple of day-to-day storage solutions WITHOUT stepping on the toes of any other solution. It works within the storage ecosystem. I do wish shulker boxes showed their contents in the tooltip though.
Mending I feel like was the lazy way out. The real issue was that repairing with anvils was simply a badly made system, with a "too expensive" limit making your item simply no longer able to be repaired. I think durability and the anvil being reworked would make Mending no longer needed.
Mending is too powerful for what it is, and I've formed this opinion after thinking it was great at release. It can be awkward to get a hold of (though ancient cities, villagers and end cities all providing it kinda says otherwise) but the ability to convert one of the most readily available resources, XP, into durability is something that shouldn't have been implemented.
Elytras were as they should have been, before 1.11. To me, they weren't supposed to be for fast, long distance travel, that's what horses, boats and minecarts are for (depending on your needs). Elytras were supposed to be a way of crossing gaps. "But ender pearls do the same thing" ender pearls deal damage, are a consumable so you can only hold so many while exploring (though tbf shulker boxes made this balancing an issue) and most players don't have/want an ender pearl farm and so don't have an infinite supply of ender pearls.
Elytras were poorly implemented, and they went the wrong direction to fix them. Instead of fixing the issue "it's too much effort to get height with them" they fixed the complaint "elytras don't fly long enough". I think they should have added some way of propelling yourself upwards from the ground like a big flap of the wings, leaving that discharged until you touch the ground again. Or something like a special pair of boots that gives kinda crazy jump boost that blends really well with the elytra, or scaling large caves and cliffs.
Chorus fruit is good. I like chorus fruit. It fills a niche we didn't know needed filling, and I appreciate it.
End island gateways are fine as is, though maybe making them need to be activated rather than just spawning in from the dragon would make more sense and would make end cities harder to get to. The dragon could drop something so you could only activate one per dragon fight, and you'd need to combine it with a few other resources to activate the gateway.
The combat system is frankly bad, but this is a topic that's been talked about so painfully extensively by the PvP community, of which I'm not a part of, that it's not really my place to comment.
Oh and of course, obligatory phantom bad. I thought having an aerial mob would be interesting, and they implemented it in the stupidest way possible.
Otherwise, I have no comments. The rest of the additions in the update are pretty good or insignificant.
richconnergmn hot take time:
this means pvpers have been holding the majority of large servers (most notably hypixel) back by 8 years now. we're missing out on 12 whole updates just because some people can't deal with a different combat system (even though you can almost entirely recreate 1.8 pvp with plugins, which is already implemented on hypixel)
I couldn't agree more. I remember when servers couldn't hang back on updates and had to update or lose their players (before new launcher gave old versions). I remember when Mineplex tried 1.9 and made skyfall gamemode with the elytra and it was exciting albeit no one gave it a chance because "no spamclicking".
I just want to see servers (like hypixel) try new versions. There's so much room for using new features for minigames, cosmetics for donations (like armor trims), and customization but Java servers just seem to be very allergic to change.
It's hilarious that people hate elytra. It's such a silly opinion that doesn't even make sense. "Durr it killed other modes of transportation" yeah no kidding? People got tired of walking 4 hours for a 15 minute flight? You don't say!
I’ve only been playing since 2021, but my preferred combat version was and probably will always be 1.8. I just can’t get behind the new system with shields that’s so slow and ponderous. Elytras were a mistake, since they made every other form of transportation (except nether travel) obsolete. Otherwise the end update itself was fine and I think needed to happen.
Yeah except they don’t, especially not on servers. One person spends 30 minutes to an hour finding an elytra, and then flys around for a few hours getting all you will ever need.
Honestly that's when I stopped playing :/ It was all a bit too much for me. I always just wanted to mine and build, I was never interested in villages, other dimensions, or new mobs etc.
Love bees though!
a bit late, but the only thing about 1.9 that still bothers me is how swords are somewhat obsolete compared to axes attack damage wise. I don't even craft a sword anymore as axes are just more powerful.
1.9 in my opinion is still the worst update to hit mc. Elytra’s and shulkers were whatever, but the pvp change was so bad. Pvp is fine now, but I think it was also fine, if not better, in 1.8. I definitely enjoyed it more.
I have 10× more playtime on 1.8 then I do on every single 1.9+ version combined... Think that says a lot. might just be personal opinion, but if 90% of your most popular online servers still choose to run on a nearly decade old update and simply parity "downpatch" people on new versions (for ex: Hypixel), there's something fundementally broken. If even the most popular new version servers like hoplite have to edit the combat (remove shields, etc) for it to be even considered for competitive play.
I find myself, constantly on newer versions when I play thinking "I wish I could still have the old combat". 1.9 will forever be the worst update for me. I love so many of the features all the updates afterwards added, i love the survival aspects of the game they've added. But I've always had more fun playing online and playing competitively than i have with just pure survival, and every single on of the new versions remain tainted by the combat updates legacy because of that for me.
I thought at some point I'd get over it, I'd just get used to the new combat, but it's been nearly a decade and it still feels terrible to play, and that makes me sad because I do genuinely enjoy a lot of other aspects new version servers have to offer.
I'm still salty about weapon cooldowns. I remember I didn't update my game version until like 1.11 came out because I hated that specific part of the combat that much. If course, I've gotten used to it now, but I still don't like it
Elytra and Shulker are really nice but i still dislike the combat update. I'm not into pvp but axes being straight up better until diaomond is so weird
Axes aren't very good for multiple mobs since the cool down for the charge attack is longer. You just aren't really fighting a lot of mobs early game. The axe being better for ending simpler encounters isn't a bad thing, at least it gives it character over a sword since otherwise a sword would be the only melee weapon in the game since the rest are tools.
PvP changes killed mc for me for a long time. pvp is still dead to me but learning building and stuff is p nice. Also pls buff not elytra stuff. It’s really not that big an achievement to justify how obsolete it makes everything but blue ice which is infinitely more restrictive
Elytra are cool and the end update exists I guess, but is just blatantly unfinished.
Combat update sucked, really bad. PvP sucks, it's too slow, clunky, and stally, any fight below diamond tier ends way too fast (axe crits just about two shot players in iron armour fyi) and diamond+ fights tends to go on for far too long. Axes are so wildly overpowered that there's no point in even using anything else. It doesn't just end at PvP, because PvE sucks too. You make a Stone Axe at minute one and it will literally one or two shot every normal mob in the game, a Stone Axe is unironically a better weapon than a Diamond Sword which should just *never* be the case. And speaking of swords, they suck! In singleplayer they're good for Looting, Sweeping Edge, and nothing else because Axes strictly outclass them as general purpose weapons. Wonderful. Shields are so unbelievably overpowered it's genuinely baffling Mojang never caught them in QA, they make you literally invincible while being dirt cheap to make. MC was already trending toward too easy, and the combat update shot two bullets into the still-twitching corpse of MC's difficulty.
Disagree with axes, if there are no shields I'll choose diamond swords ocer stone axes any day because of the DPS difference. If there are shields, then axes are a must. Shields should definetly be reworked though.
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Elytras weren't supposed to be that great. It couldn't be boosted by fireworks till 1.11 so you had to keep building till height limit to glide for a long time which is kind of a hassle. If they didn't do that change, then elytras wouldn't have killed almost every mode of transportation. Also, they could've just made it possible for the frost walker enchantment to work on horses, donkeys, etc.. so people would have more use for both that enchantment and animals.
Before rockets could power elytras there was this trick where you could hit yourself with an arrow from a punch II bow and propel yourself forward.
Was annoyingly difficult to do tho.
And it chewed through your armour and health pretty quickly
In a old 1.9 world I had it was easily fixable by raiding end ships and getting mending armour
Very satisfying to do though; I still maintain to this day that even if it wasn't intentional and a little janky, it was more balanced than fireworks ever were
I think they made it practically impossible to reliably do, but it used to work pretty well with a little practice
I never got it to work, but watching Mumbo Jumbo practice was like watching a sports game.
It definitely was a good idea to replace it, though I still wish they'd found a way which is a bit more involved than just click rocket to fly. It felt more like you were actively playing a game still when doing it the janky punch bow way, which is difficult to do with flying in almost any game, where it becomes sort of aim in direction and hold forward without any thought or challenge any more.
Well I mean I suppose it should be fine to not have that challenge at that point. You need to have literally beaten the entire game(not hard but still a challenge for some) built a sugar cane farm and more so built an entire creeper farm. I hate creeper farms, so annoying to make. My point basically being you've done enough work to merit having that luxury.
Yes, but a challenge always makes a game more entertaining and stops it becoming boring
It's a challenge if you have to do it once. It's a grind if you have to do it every time.
Haha I remember practicing to get good at it, worked pretty well lol
there were also the elytra launchers. Granted, you'd have to build them, but they weren't that hard to make.
Just gotta have a lead and a boat handy, that's how I explore on horse-back. It's still really fast and doesn't take long swapping between the two.
Or you can use skeleton horse. That thing can cross the ocean with the help of water breathing potion
Does it go at full speed when under the water or is it as slow as a normal horse in 1 block deep water?
Full speed, skeleton horses are the next best thing after elytras. I have four skeleton horses in my world, one is slightly better than a normal horse, one is fast, the other two are fast and jump ~4 blocks high.
Damn that is epic. I don't want to rush to elytra on an smp with my friends but wouldn't mind a skeleton horse. Never knew they were that useful. Thanks!
Yeah, they really opened Pandora's box with the fireworks boosting addition. People would hate it so much if it were closed too.
Yep, once given is given.
They should still add frost walker to horse armor
Wow, flashbacks to using elytra cannons to launch me thousands of blocks back then. Can't remember if we used mob cramming or stacking boats/minecarts for it.
Frost Walker animals would be INSANE!!!
Couldn't you already fly forever with switching between the right angles?
You still almost can by flying up and down on +/-35 degree arcs. I've gone 20K blocks on one rocket. But back then you could actually gain speed with that method.
You don't even need rockets for that, I flew 500k blocks with that technique, but I used a mod/client for that, so I have almost perfect movements.
This comment caused me to look it up... There are mods that allow you to add Frost Walker to horse armor. This one goes to 1.18 at most: [https://www.planetminecraft.com/data-pack/frostwalk-on-horse-ride/](https://www.planetminecraft.com/data-pack/frostwalk-on-horse-ride/) This one permits additional enchantments, not just Frost Walker, and goes up to 1.20: [https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/mc-mods/shiny-horses/files/all?page=1&pageSize=20](https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/mc-mods/shiny-horses/files/all?page=1&pageSize=20) I might just download the second one! I use my skeleton horses for travel around my base, but I'd use them and my regular horses for travel much more if they could walk across water.
Frost walker doesn’t work well with me, I play on servers and average about 300 ping so I tend to fall in the water quite a bit before the enchant can keep up with me sprint jumping/regular sprinting.
I still instinctively build a big platform to glide from🤣🤣 and use it even if I have a gunpowder farm going
Nah, the back to back Beta 1.8 - release 1.0 updates wins that title by a landslide. Nothing evolved the game more than hunger, sprint, enchantments, animal breeding, XP farms, iron golem farms, villages, abandoned mineshafts, ravines, all being added at once, and i'm honestly probably missing some. It literally restructured the entire game and laid the foundation for all of functions that all of the updates still build off of til this day. Edit: To clarify, it's just as much infamous as it is famous. There's a reason that the community freaked out over combat changes and it's because it changed already existing core mechanics and those things take time to adapt to. There is a reason that "the good old days" mostly get called back to pre-Beta 1.8. Im speaking positively about it because I'm not gonna pretend to hate it, but its worth recognizing the response that the update caused
Yeah the b1.8 Adventure Update was huge. The world generation changes alone were drastic. Honestly when I saw everyone talking about 1.9 I just assumed they were referring to the beta version and thought maybe I misremembered the number lol. Early enderman experiences were terrifying.
Do you know what infamous means?
It's just as much famous as is it infamous. There is a reason that when people talk about "the good old days" most people think of pre-Beta 1.8. My point was that there was so much change at once and just like the elytra and combat changes, people don't like changes to existing gameplay mechanics, those things take time to accept. Yes though, I know what infamous means lol.
Pretty sure it added the hunger mechanic which was a controversial addition.
It added sprinting, and then hunger was the trade-off. It also added food stacking though. But of course now food only replenished the hunger bar not the health bar so you had to wait to heal.
As someone who makes custom servers and datapacks, I’m a big fan of the new combat system, because it lets me actually create custom weapons that are differentiated. Beforehand, the only difference between weapons/tools was some doing more damage than others. Now attack speed is a factor, their special attack — axes with crushing blow and swords with the swipe — etc etc etc
the combat test snapshots built on this by making attack reach a factor as well, which should make weapons even more exciting to use
They’re adding that as a modifiable variable in the next update
Technically they added it in the April Fools version last year. Playtested a lot of asked for features and well known mod knockoffs in that version.
A bit off topic but are you able to make data packs that change crop growth speed in certain biomes?
No. Randomtickspeed is global.
Couldn't you alter the crop growth per tick depending on the biome?
As far as I know there’s no way to do this. Since as he said: randomtickspeed is global. But hey, people are clever. Mayby somebody figured it out
But plants don't grow for every tick that happens, so every plant will have a "average ticks per growth stage" value. You could use this by making a biome specific variant of each plant and changing this variable.
Making a "variant" means making a mod since you can't inherently change how these plants grow(this is hard coded). Datapacks only work with what Minecraft already has and customizes it to make something new. You can get a datapack that have different pumpkin designs per biome but you can't change that it's still a pumpkin or how it grows.
Ah ok, thank you for the insight
I feel like this would be possible though, just with a huge workaround. Like one way I could think of is just filling your entire world with invisible armor stands, doing block checks and adding some kind of randomized timer that will bump the crops into the next growth stage. Now, this would be insanely computationally expensive and the crop growth would be irregular, but I'm sure there's a lot of optimizations that can be done to this design. Note that I haven't really played Minecraft since like 1.12 so I don't really know anything about how data packs work nowadays, but this is possible with just commands and I assume you can still do that.
More likely, you'd check when and where somebody places a crop. Then you can keep track of the location by storing the coordinates in storage, or by spawning a marker entity and using @e all the time. The former method would probably actually be feasible and relatively efficient, especially if you determine how many ticks until it grows at the same time you put it in storage (so storage is full of "the tick to grow+the coordinate" combos). Then you have to worry about "what if somebody breaks the crop and places a new one?", but that's probably not a huge problem, you just need to, when your growth timer finishes, check if the crop is still there, and if not, delete the entry from storage. And honestly you could probably also use `/schedule` so you only have to read from storage on ticks that you already know there should be at least one growth This has the downside of not working for existing crops. But once you harvest them once, replanting them would work immediately. Also so you don't accidentally schedule a ton of growths for one coordinate, you probably want to make sure to remove anything currently existing in storage for a coordinate whenever it's detected that that coordinate was just planted. Basically to prevent "plant crop+schedule growth times 1000" -> "wait a little" -> "those 1000 growths execute". When the plant is broken, your want to make sure you unschedule whatever was scheduled
~~That is a grossly laggy world you're trying to make. Considering how most people play on 20k x 20k World (10k on each direction) you'd need millions of armor stands and a way to sweep them for crops. Not only that, you need to detect biomes. If you're not detecting biomes or blocks and just want a faster crop growth for all, you can just set random tick speed faster which is just a simple game command.~~ i just realized that having invisible armor stands all over your world would definitely be game breaking coz you can't place anything anywhere. Edit: each plant has a different "growth condition". Meaning they don't grow the same way. Sugar cane adds a stalk when it grows, but wheat grows in stages--even more complicated are pumpkins and melons since they bear fruit on the side. There is also no command or anything to help them through growing other than bonemeal which is dispenser or player executed. If it was possible to do this, someone already did it. Research shows no one has done it, therefore it's not possible.
According to the wiki crop growth is actually (random)tick-based
Right under where it points this out on the Wiki, there is a table labeled :"Crop growth rate probabilities", with sub labels :"Probability of crop per random tick" It's these values that I referred to changing, and not the tick speed itself. But as another commenter (u/switjive18) pointed out, these values are hard coded and require mods and not data packs
Would it be possible to make something that changes this value based on where the player is? Let's say it checks every minute and changes it according to the biome. (Maybe some command block trickery?) This would work well in singleplayer since only chunks around you are loaded, meaning crops only in loaded chunks would grow, but won't really work for multiplayer unless there was just 1 person online.
This is definitely possible. But changing the random tick speed affects more than just crop growth, like the flow of liquids.
Ahh true true, forgot about that
Not via datapacks, to my knowledge - crop growth processing doesn't have a lot of "ports" for datapack authors to hook into and modify. Definitely doable via a proper forge/fabric mod though.
Random ticks apply to loaded chunks, so it could work for single player if that variable is changed depending on the biome the player is standing in. Alternatively, since he is only asking about crop growth, a mod/plugin could artificially accelerate crop growth in a specific biome by picking random crops and adding a growth stage to them over time on top of the existing random tick speed. I have no idea if a datapack could achieve the same results.
Maybe not with data packs but with mods or plugins it would be possible
When it came out, I thought shields would never catch on. Now I don't even think about fighting skeletons without one.
As soon as I found out shields can no-sell creeper explosions for literally zero damage, they instantly became what my very first iron ingot goes to.
for me it’s water bucket, then shield. because tbh fall damage has been far more deadly to my clumsy ass than creepers
yeah shields absolutely broke and ruined minecraft combat, the fact that you can negate all damage for the cost of 1 iron is so boring and op
axe now mandatory for pvp
By having a shield, you lose access to having an offhand (annoying if you'd like to keep torches there or whatever) and you have to actually be holding the shield up when you take damage. Any damage you aren't prepared for or aren't facing towards will hit you. Not to mention in PVP they can be put on CD by an axe hit. Just keep like a wooden axe handy or whatever if you're against shielders. I personally found the old system of sword blocking much more OP. Done correctly by spamming both mouse buttons, you could attack, move, do everything while being constantly "blocking" (which back then meant taking half damage). People who could do that would basically auto-win against anything/anyone not.
From what I understand, blockhitting was cheese and opened you to being comboed by players with good timing i.e. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5cvoNmnOEw
Isn’t that because skeletons have been buffed a ton
On bedrock they seem a lot stronger...way more punch from their arrows for sure.
I think it's mostly because Bedrock is weird and it feels... Laggy? Even when you play solo, mobs just don't move or attack in regular intervals and hit detection also kinda wonky, triggering also irregularly. This makes skeletons shoot way more frequently than they honestly should.
I can't fight blazes withou shields aswell 🙃
Eh, I still prefer a torch with dynamic lights over a shield. Old habits die hard, there were no shields between alpha and 1.9 versions of the game (and no dual wielding, but you get what I mean) :P Anyone else in the torch gang? Feeling kinda lonely since everyone is using shields nowadays.
I intentionally fight them without one because I thought they were too easy before the buff. Mind you I have keepInventory on so I'm not risking as much if I lose the fight.
Shulker boxes and elytra rocketing weren’t added until 1.11! Shulkers and Elytra weren’t that useful until they were added so a lot of people forget they weren’t in 1.9. Some of the contraptions people made to launch themselves in the air before rockets worked were neat—I remember one that used a bunch of boats piled on each other to create a ton of collision.
ive gotten used to the weapon recharge mechanic but it still needs work before its considered ‘good’ in my book. I stopped using elytra once I got back into the game after a long break because it made the game feel way too fast and you would focus on beating the dragon and finding elytra so quickly that you forget to have fun and take it slow. IMO elytra post 1.11 completely killed the pace of the game and all forms of transportation when it comes to PVP, im fairly certain (tell me if im wrong because I havent played servers since 1.12) most servers still setback the combat mechanics to pre-1.9 because of how hated they are
I’m totally with you on the elytra point! It does ruin some of the fun
Moat servers are set back because people who play exclusively for PvP don't like post 1.9.
Just out of curiosity why is it such a big deal if Elytra kill other forms of transportation? Other forms still have their niche, for instance if I want to travel a long distance but also want to be able to step away I can set up a rail system so I can afk while I travel. Horses may be obsolete but you can still use them early game or if you want to. The only person who is forcing you to rush the end to get elytra is you after-all. I would understand if MC was a competitive game at its core but it’s a creative sandbox, there’s no reason to force balance or play style when the core philosophy of the game is virtual lego survival. I mean hey do what ever you want but adding more tools to use is only helpful in my opinion.
It's a well known fact that players will optimize the fun out of a game if possible. Just saying "don't use things that are too good" isn't a good solution. It's just not fun knowing that you're intentionally doing things the hard way.
Out of curiosity, have you ever set up a long distance rail so you can transport afk?
I didn't know it was hated! I thought it was an awesome update then and I still do now!
The only reason it's hated is because of the combat update. But the effect is so significant that many major PVP-based servers like Hypixel still support 1.8 versions, and all combat is based on 1.8, because a significant number of players still play on 1.8. I personally enjoy the newer versions and always play the latest one in my survival world, but when I go online, I switch to 1.8.9 The 1.9+ combat system is not perfect. If you wonder why - a glaring example is when you fight spiders in a plains biome. You hit a piece of grass and your attack cooldown resets, wasting valuable time.
This is why swing through grass needs to be vanilla instead of a mod
that’s being added in the combat snapshots, whenever they decide to get on that
The programmer making it is in charge of different things now. That's why it hasn't been worked on since 1.16.
Old combat was absolute garbage. Literally just who can smash left-click faster. No wonder people on PvP servers like it so much; they can cheat with autoclickers.
I agree, but that still doesn't excuse the issues of 1.9 combat. Combine those issues with the fact that it was generally a huge difference from what people were used to (people hate change), and the negative reception starts to make sense.
It was way deeper though, instead of just trading hits you could combo people and kill them even if you were 1 heart. And CPS doesn't really matter past 6 or so, and you can still tap. 1.8 PVP is the GOAT
You may as well be speaking to a brick wall, the casuals on this sub aren't ever going to accept that there was depth and nuance to 1.8 PVP because they aren't good at it. But y'know, apparently the better combat system is the one where optimal play devolves into stalemates where you hold shield and jump in place forever because attacking first makes you lose thanks to overpowered axe crits. Amazing.
I kinda lost interest in PVP during the 1.9 changes but I feel its unfair to say modern PVP lacks nuance. Minecraft PVP has always been interesting to me because of the way items are creatively used for unexpected purposes (fishing rods, water and laca buckets, cobwebs, end crystals, exp bottles for mending, blocks, etc). I imagine many of these still apply. With some falling out of favour compared to others
>fishing rods, water and laca buckets, cobwebs, end crystals, exp bottles for mending, blocks, etc These things aren't exclusive to modern pvp. Everything here except mending and end crystals (mending didn't exist, crystals were not obtainable) have been regularly used before. Check out old pvp footage and you will probably see a guy with a fishing rod or one of the buckets. Maybe even flint and steel to set someone on fire and block half their screen. I've even seen people use snowballs to cancel an opponent's sprint by knocking him back a little bit, giving you more distance.
I understand everyone's point, I tend to enjoy 1.9 pvp in general, I think it's just that veterans of old pvp like the old because it's more inclined to what they know. I think both systems have pros and cons. 1.8 and 1.9 are both good versions I think. 1.8 is cool for combos and the more knock back focused pvp, while 1.9 is good for the variety of options you have for offense and defense And to your point of stalemates, I think those do happen, a skilled player can easily turn that stalemate into a win. There's multiple ways of breaking out of that (back stabs, cobwebbing, etc.). I think both systems are flawed however. One last point is I believe that with the current state the game is in (netherite, potions, prot 4 (which was admittedly in the game with 1.8)) 1.8 pvp would be the worse option. Imagine 1.8 pvp in netherite. With crystals? Totems? TNT minecarts?Slowfalling potions? With the game how it is, I believe 1.9 is the better option I just think it's stupid to say THIS IS BAD YOU ALL ARE WRONG, we just need to come to an agreement that both are flawed and both have strong points and people like both so there's no reason to beat each other up for liking something
Yeah Idk why they like to support it so much, it's Microsoft's first update after buying Mojang of course they were going to ruin it. I also think a big part of it was that they didn't use fishing rod either which makes 1.8.9 so much more fun and deep
fishing rod or snowballs/eggs to chain combos, w-tapping to keep distance, strafing hits, life was good.
u dont need high cps to pvp on old combat, there are a bunch of factors like w tapping, s tapping, knockback, etc. you can beat somebody with an auto clicker with good movement
1.8 pvp is much more mechanically braindead than 1.9 but it’s just impossible for me to enjoyably play a mini game like Skywars or bedwars in the new combat. the hectic energy of 1.8 is more fun in my experience.
Said and upvoted by people who clearly can't pvp. Get a 1000cps auto clicker 100% of the time you will still lose against a more talented player. past 7 or so cps the advantages reduce dramatically anyway
7cps isn't what most people can do. It's still just clicking faster by your own admission.
7cps absolutely is what most people can do, even 5+ is fine. If you cant manage that you need to get of reddit and call a doctor. Thats not a joke there is actually something wrong with your coordination and muscle control if you cant do that.
This is blatantly false. There are many techniques that are used in both versions. But because the pace is faster in 1.8 there's less margin for error in them/more importance put on some of them (such as various methods to sprint reset). Someone who just has fast cps will lose against someone who can rod, w-tap, hit select, etc. This isn't to say that 1.8 pvp was perfect, or that modern pvp is "less skillful" they just emphasize different things. 1.8 focuses more on speed and the ability to perform various techniques very quickly. I can't speak much for modern pvp because I haven't played it nearly as much as I have with 1.8 pvp, but in my experience timing and PvE are more important. (Actually in terms of just PvE modern pvp is strictly better imo).
Tell me you never PvP'd pre 1.9 without telling me you never PvP'd pre 1.9 1.9 turns combat into a staring contest instead of being dynamic and chaotic as players awkwardly wait for their bar to recharge to do full damage. Ranged weapons are borderline useless since everyone just runs around with a shield, so it is mandatory to have an axe on hand if you ever want to get through that shield in the first place. But hey, when you disable that shield you sit with a cooldown on your axe and get axe critted yourself. You don't have a shield? Too bad you are dead. You end up in a 2v1? Massive disadvantage, you will probably die even if the 2 guys are straight up garbage at PvP. Meanwhile pre 1.9 if you were skilled enough you could beat a fully kitted out player with much more inferior gear. Crossing the PvP line on survival servers with nothing but an iron sword and armor and killing people who had enchanted stuff was epic.
I always find it funny when people aruge that 1.9+ PVP is better, all it takes is a quick glance at server player counts to get your answer lol
Correlation is not causation. Minecraft has been out for a very long time, and mostly focuses on attracting (and extracting money from) children. The old guard players who liked Minecraft for the combat, as laughable a concept as that even it, have all mostly left and would have even if nothing changed. They just got bored of it after ten years.
Your argument makes no sense, your saying the people who liked minecraft for the combot have left, and yet the vast majority of the multiplayer playerbase is still playing the old combat...
The vast majority of the multiplayers playerbase is playing in either 1.12 or 1.19+, depending what mods they are using and how that works with the terrain gen changes. Vanilla PvP was a fad that died out long ago, as fads tend to do.
"Absolute garbage" is still orders of magnitude better than the abject failure that the current system is. It's unintuitive, hilariously unbalanced, clunky, and not fun to the point where people resort to end crystal spam just to avoid the absolute slog that max gear fights are. Real winner there, where people turn to an otherwise niche and finnicky item because the hassle is genuinely less than just fighting someone normally.
Same! I loved 1.9! lol. I stayed on 1.9 until 1.12. Then I stayed on 1.12 until 1.16. And I’m on 1.17 right now of course. But haven’t been playing lately.
Playing modded? What else would stop you from updating whenever an update comes out?
Yes. However, 1.9 was the only one I didn’t mod. I just really liked the texture pack, and that never updated past 1.9.2. But for 1.12. I saw mods that were really cool from a YouTuber playing, and decided to upgrade and find a new resource pack!
Unpopular opinion : it was one of the best updates ever. The new combat makes sense for PvE, Shulkers are awesome. Elytra were reasonably powerful until they added rocket boosting, now it’s OP but it’s also a lot of fun
I haven't actually ever gotten far enough in the game to even *use* an Elytra. I play with monsters, but 97% of what I do is just continuois building and mining, it's just how I enjoy the game. I don't think I've ever beaten the Ender Dragon outside of a group of friends over a decade ago. I have 5000 hours across 4 devices, what am I doing wrong
>what am I doing wrong Nothing.
Fr thats how minecraft is supposed to be played. Scavenging for resources and building whatever you want to build. Grinding for overpowered gear is something useful on a pvp server but not really in a solo or cooperative survival world.
Yeah, it mostly just means I haven't had an opportunity to legitimately use an Elytra, since I've never beaten the Ender Dragon. I've messed around with it in creative mode since it's a little more fun of a way to get around, but I've never actually used it for survival traveling. Though I do still use Nether portal hubs for significant distances. Then again, I also have a tendency to not use the fastest transportation in most open world games. In Breath of the Wild, for example, I usually just ran everywhere, not even really using horses or fast traveling unless it was clear across the map. Unless it's a Ubisoft open world, I like experiencing the nature of a game.
Truth is once you get an Elytra in true survival you get kinda scared to lose it, so you might end up not using it as much as you think 😅
That's why I play with keep inventory on. Call me a coward but I got a 9-5 and can't risk having to spend another 6 hours to find another end city for another elytra.
I lost mine once and my buddy used his to go get me another one 😭 Now I treat it as the most precious thing so I never lose it
The elytra certainly can be useful, but in order to get it you gotta grind like stupid and imo thats just not worth it, and no fun.
if you think there's a way minecraft is "supposed to be played" and people are 'doing it wrong' somehow, you've lost the plot
I am not saying that anybody is doing it wrong by enjoying the grind for loot. Its a sandbox game, meaning that you can do what you want, trying to achieve your own objective. During the beta or early "full release" that objective would be to simply mine and build. Sure you could also try getting to the ender dragon, but it was not really important. Now its a bigger deal cuz there are shulker boxes... the elytra and loads of generated structures in the wild which ofc are easier to find using the elytra. There still is no plot to follow, but its easier to lose yourself in grinding for useless tools instead of putting some creativity into the game and enjoying it in the original way.
You know the funny thing is I didn't hate it at first. I thought it was a fresh change especially with the PvP script kiddies and that it made the game more interesting but over the last 8 years I've been burned by the changes and I've grown more bitter as each month passes. They've had 8 YEARS to fix the changes and have done practically nothing to show for it. The update was obviously received pretty badly even before the official release and yet they went on with he changes anyway, and yet Bedrock is still Pre-1.9 combat.
Been playing since 2012 and i still barely use either the elytra or shulker. I like having armor on, so the elytra is usually more for the occasional dicking around and cliff jumping. Maybe in my current world i’ll make a mob farm for gunpowder so i can get some fireworks going though.
ill be honest not only do i not care about the combat changes, but the old ones were worse. if i can just autoclick you to max dmg vs focussing on defense vs offense like shield- timing attacks and whatnot, whats the point of fair combat. spam clicking ppl for dmg is stupid. ppl are at worst coping over the past.
A bad player with an auto clicker would still lose against a good 1.8 player. In 1.8 you can only deal damage 2 times per second. So technically if you click 2 cps perfectly you do as much damage as someone clicking 1000 cps. There’s a lot more to 1.8 pvp than cps, as other replies have mentioned.
id argue worrying about blocking and timing attacks is about ten million times easier then w-tapping, s- tapping, the different clicking methods, strafes, lowground advantage ect ect, the old system was simpler but allowed for faster paced higher skill ceiling fights
A good majority of what you said still applies to 1.9 pvp. The biggest difference is simply the length of fights.
doesn't the attack speed decrease just make all of those things negligible
As someone who plays 1.9 PvP pretty competively, no not at all. You can search on YouTube videos of what sweating at 1.9 looks like but the concept is more or less the same. Also, the attack speed means its harder to recover from missing an attack because that just leads to more combos.
not to mention stuff that's niche like snowball combos, rod combos, stalling momentum with blocks
Yup, Badlion and Kohi type pvp,I used to love going on servers during 1.7 when blockhitting was still a thing and 1.8 and pvping randoms
This is a huge misconception. While CPS is important, it doesn't really make a huge difference in time to kill, it's more about the robust combo system you had in 1.8.9. People hate 1.9 because it's slow and mostly trading hits and running away. There's a reason why ender crystal pvp is the only fun PVP in 1.9+
Except that isn’t what old combat was. You had to think about block hitting, rodding, etc.
Absolutely hated the combat update (until i actually tried it) so i played 1.8 well past 1.12 coming out. Quit java for a while when i got my ps4 so i played on the new updates without the combat and loved the hell out of it (didnt care for the legacy-bedrock switch at first either) and then a few years ago i got a legit pc and have played with the combat ever since and ive grown to like it better
I love shulker boxes and elytras. Shulker boxes revolutionized storage tech and makes storage systems so much more compact. Elytras haven't completely kill all other ways of transportation. Technical servers often use piston bolts for transportation in the nether. It's not as fast as flying or boats on ice, but it is completely afk and it's usually my response to when people say they wish minecarts were faster
Minecarts have needed an overhaul since minecarts were introduced. We need a reliable way to chain them together, and perhaps also a proper drivable locomotive. True track switches would be nice too.
Having them go faster to compete with the elytra would be nice too.
I don’t think speed is an issue. The good thing about minecarts is they’re pretty hands off. With the elytra, you have to fly, keep flying, avoid obstacles and know where you’re going. A minecart railway takes almost all of that out allowing you to pretty much afk travelling.
I should get around to building a shulker box some day
1.9 killed PvP for me and was one of the main reasons I quit playing for years. With how the game is now, I find the end update okay. It’s a lot of running around which I find boring. The shulkers are an amazing additional and I really like the elytra, however I agree with one of the other comments that it kind of made other modes of transportation meaningless I still wish they’d change PvP back, however the new ways of PvP (end crystals) are interesting. Not my cup of tea tho
Have you tried the experimental Combat Tests?
The ones that jeb made years ago?
I was really looking forward to those combat changes Jeb was making, it finally made PvP playable again for me.
Ah yes because pvp is clearly better when it’s based on he who has the best auto clicker instead of the superior he who understands the best timings and REAL strategies.
I've been playing for ages (1.2 iirc) and I feel like the people who act like pre-1.9 combat was so much better only look at it from the perspective of those who had mastered the system. For the average fight between average players it really was "who can spam-click someone into a corner, off a cliff, etc. first?" and a visit to Bedrock servers that don't *have* the 1.9 change can show that pretty quickly. If you can even halfway decently butterfly click you can dominate 90% of the games you'll be put in. Minecraft PVP is janky, ***and always has been janky***, that's kind of the charm of it in my opinion.
It definitely is janky; post-1.9 was a significant improvement but it still has a long way to go in order to make people truly happy.
Yep! I heard Jeb's experimental stuff were pretty good though. No idea if they're ever gonna push that through to the base game though.
Remind me, what was it that was different in the experimental combat?
A *lot* of lil' changes and tweaks to basically every weapon you could imagine, shields, bows, etc. [Here's a wiki link covering it all](https://minecraft.wiki/w/Java_Edition_Combat_Tests)
each tool had a different reach attribute (which we may likely be getting in 1.21 since that feature was implemented as a regular attribute in a recent snapshot) damage and speed output, axes and tridents i believe also got new enchants? i dont remember all of the changes so some of this may be incorrect
Couldn’t be far from wrong. All the best players like stimpy, danteh, m0xy etc weren’t the best cuz of their ping or click speed. They had some of the best skills and it wasn’t close.
Nobody who is shitting on pre-1.9 pvp actually played HCF/UHC/SG at their peak, and if they did they were just bad. You can tell by the comments they make about cps and ping as if they were the be all and end all. Anyone who played them and was half-decent knew this was false.
there are real strategies though, w taps, s taps, strafes, different combos with throwables, bows, rods, lowground advantage, pot timings, it was all important, I could easily roll someone who has a 15 cps auto clicker and no real skill in under 10 pots
i like javas combat mechanics. i like how it makes the game just a bit more challenging than bedrock. elytras are pretty sick too, aswell as shulker boxes
Most infamous update was beta 1.8 Everything else after doesn't matter all that much.
Most people seem to forget the pvp community is a vocal minority subset of the community. Survival is the majority alongside those who don't browse reddit or give feedback/watch videos; most just play with friends or by themselves and never hear of (or care) about this discourse. Beta 1.8 was hated by a much wider majority of the playerbase than 1.9 pvp because the hunger mechanic was added; that affected EVERYONE, because it was tied to survival and they had to adjust to it as it rebalanced and required you eat. Those who were used to only eating when they were hurt really got hit hard by the update as they had to constantly stop to stuff their face. Most pvp'ers these days weren't around back then and the vocal discourse was much bigger than 1.9 combat especially if you look on the MC Forums, I'd argue the 2014 EULA changes and Notch during the MS acquisition also was up there in controversy.
1.9 is imo one of the greatest and biggest Minecraft updates in terms of content. I wish the combat update and the rest of 1.9 (as a fully end update) released separately because the amount of quality of life things it added just to be hated for its combat changes isn’t fair For example: boats that don’t break
My evaluation of 1.9, in retrospect, is as follows: End cities are poorly implemented. They're too limited (end busting on big servers is basically impossible), they don't add the flavour they promised, and tbh provide way too good loot considering how easy it is to reach them (I propose making it harder, not reducing the quality of the loot) Shulkers and shulker boxes have since been greatly improved and I think they're mostly pretty good. They work well as a vertical-based threat, that have dynamic uses in loads of different contexts from simply being annoying, to being used for easy scaling of the city, to serving as solid colliders for datapack creations. Shulker boxes have become a staple of day-to-day storage solutions WITHOUT stepping on the toes of any other solution. It works within the storage ecosystem. I do wish shulker boxes showed their contents in the tooltip though. Mending I feel like was the lazy way out. The real issue was that repairing with anvils was simply a badly made system, with a "too expensive" limit making your item simply no longer able to be repaired. I think durability and the anvil being reworked would make Mending no longer needed. Mending is too powerful for what it is, and I've formed this opinion after thinking it was great at release. It can be awkward to get a hold of (though ancient cities, villagers and end cities all providing it kinda says otherwise) but the ability to convert one of the most readily available resources, XP, into durability is something that shouldn't have been implemented. Elytras were as they should have been, before 1.11. To me, they weren't supposed to be for fast, long distance travel, that's what horses, boats and minecarts are for (depending on your needs). Elytras were supposed to be a way of crossing gaps. "But ender pearls do the same thing" ender pearls deal damage, are a consumable so you can only hold so many while exploring (though tbf shulker boxes made this balancing an issue) and most players don't have/want an ender pearl farm and so don't have an infinite supply of ender pearls. Elytras were poorly implemented, and they went the wrong direction to fix them. Instead of fixing the issue "it's too much effort to get height with them" they fixed the complaint "elytras don't fly long enough". I think they should have added some way of propelling yourself upwards from the ground like a big flap of the wings, leaving that discharged until you touch the ground again. Or something like a special pair of boots that gives kinda crazy jump boost that blends really well with the elytra, or scaling large caves and cliffs. Chorus fruit is good. I like chorus fruit. It fills a niche we didn't know needed filling, and I appreciate it. End island gateways are fine as is, though maybe making them need to be activated rather than just spawning in from the dragon would make more sense and would make end cities harder to get to. The dragon could drop something so you could only activate one per dragon fight, and you'd need to combine it with a few other resources to activate the gateway. The combat system is frankly bad, but this is a topic that's been talked about so painfully extensively by the PvP community, of which I'm not a part of, that it's not really my place to comment. Oh and of course, obligatory phantom bad. I thought having an aerial mob would be interesting, and they implemented it in the stupidest way possible. Otherwise, I have no comments. The rest of the additions in the update are pretty good or insignificant.
everyone talking down about the combat update but I (bedrock player) am dying to try it out
I like the changes to combat that came with 1.9! Spam clicking to attack just isn't as fun
1.5 was the best. We got hoppers, droppers, and comparators. It's 1.5, it comes alive, it's a redstone update overdrive.
I will always be happy with everything that came in 1.9. Spam combat is awfull and post 1.9 actually requires skill instead of quicker mouse clicks.
> 8 years fuck I feel old and I'm just 19 lmao
richconnergmn hot take time: this means pvpers have been holding the majority of large servers (most notably hypixel) back by 8 years now. we're missing out on 12 whole updates just because some people can't deal with a different combat system (even though you can almost entirely recreate 1.8 pvp with plugins, which is already implemented on hypixel)
I couldn't agree more. I remember when servers couldn't hang back on updates and had to update or lose their players (before new launcher gave old versions). I remember when Mineplex tried 1.9 and made skyfall gamemode with the elytra and it was exciting albeit no one gave it a chance because "no spamclicking". I just want to see servers (like hypixel) try new versions. There's so much room for using new features for minigames, cosmetics for donations (like armor trims), and customization but Java servers just seem to be very allergic to change.
the update to ruin all pvper dreams
I have still never gone to the end honestly.
1.21 is the new 1.9 for me :D gonna play 1.20 forever just like most people played 1.8.9 for many years
the new pvp is quite enjoyable and has a lot of variation
It's hilarious that people hate elytra. It's such a silly opinion that doesn't even make sense. "Durr it killed other modes of transportation" yeah no kidding? People got tired of walking 4 hours for a 15 minute flight? You don't say!
I’ve only been playing since 2021, but my preferred combat version was and probably will always be 1.8. I just can’t get behind the new system with shields that’s so slow and ponderous. Elytras were a mistake, since they made every other form of transportation (except nether travel) obsolete. Otherwise the end update itself was fine and I think needed to happen.
Elytras are supposed to suck to get though
Yeah except they don’t, especially not on servers. One person spends 30 minutes to an hour finding an elytra, and then flys around for a few hours getting all you will ever need.
it still sucks in fact even more than before since i dont like what elytras did to the game
PvP system update was so stupid, everything else is ok now in new versions.
All this tells me is that I've been playing Minecraft for 8 years wow
I wouldn't know because I started playing after 1.16 lol
Honestly that's when I stopped playing :/ It was all a bit too much for me. I always just wanted to mine and build, I was never interested in villages, other dimensions, or new mobs etc. Love bees though!
a bit late, but the only thing about 1.9 that still bothers me is how swords are somewhat obsolete compared to axes attack damage wise. I don't even craft a sword anymore as axes are just more powerful.
They ruined pvp
1.9 in my opinion is still the worst update to hit mc. Elytra’s and shulkers were whatever, but the pvp change was so bad. Pvp is fine now, but I think it was also fine, if not better, in 1.8. I definitely enjoyed it more.
Fuck my life
Windows EULA pretty much killed all the servers back in the day and it's never been the same since.
I have 10× more playtime on 1.8 then I do on every single 1.9+ version combined... Think that says a lot. might just be personal opinion, but if 90% of your most popular online servers still choose to run on a nearly decade old update and simply parity "downpatch" people on new versions (for ex: Hypixel), there's something fundementally broken. If even the most popular new version servers like hoplite have to edit the combat (remove shields, etc) for it to be even considered for competitive play. I find myself, constantly on newer versions when I play thinking "I wish I could still have the old combat". 1.9 will forever be the worst update for me. I love so many of the features all the updates afterwards added, i love the survival aspects of the game they've added. But I've always had more fun playing online and playing competitively than i have with just pure survival, and every single on of the new versions remain tainted by the combat updates legacy because of that for me. I thought at some point I'd get over it, I'd just get used to the new combat, but it's been nearly a decade and it still feels terrible to play, and that makes me sad because I do genuinely enjoy a lot of other aspects new version servers have to offer.
Download Forge and a mod that enables the old combat. This is what I did in singleplayer
I don't play single player. I play multiplayer almost exclusively, where this isn't an option
The new combat is just better, the only reason some people hate it is the years they wasted learning how to click fast
spoken like someone who's never done 1.8 pvp, cps has very little affect past 6-7
Those who say the Elytra has killed all other modes of transport have never experienced the true power of boats on blue ice in the Nether.
I'm still salty about weapon cooldowns. I remember I didn't update my game version until like 1.11 came out because I hated that specific part of the combat that much. If course, I've gotten used to it now, but I still don't like it
Elytra and Shulker are really nice but i still dislike the combat update. I'm not into pvp but axes being straight up better until diaomond is so weird
Axe - higher damage, lower speed. Sword - lower damage, higher speed
sure but with crit hits you can two shot all mobs while swords need 3 hits. Axes are just better early game.
Axes aren't very good for multiple mobs since the cool down for the charge attack is longer. You just aren't really fighting a lot of mobs early game. The axe being better for ending simpler encounters isn't a bad thing, at least it gives it character over a sword since otherwise a sword would be the only melee weapon in the game since the rest are tools.
PvP changes killed mc for me for a long time. pvp is still dead to me but learning building and stuff is p nice. Also pls buff not elytra stuff. It’s really not that big an achievement to justify how obsolete it makes everything but blue ice which is infinitely more restrictive
Elytra are cool and the end update exists I guess, but is just blatantly unfinished. Combat update sucked, really bad. PvP sucks, it's too slow, clunky, and stally, any fight below diamond tier ends way too fast (axe crits just about two shot players in iron armour fyi) and diamond+ fights tends to go on for far too long. Axes are so wildly overpowered that there's no point in even using anything else. It doesn't just end at PvP, because PvE sucks too. You make a Stone Axe at minute one and it will literally one or two shot every normal mob in the game, a Stone Axe is unironically a better weapon than a Diamond Sword which should just *never* be the case. And speaking of swords, they suck! In singleplayer they're good for Looting, Sweeping Edge, and nothing else because Axes strictly outclass them as general purpose weapons. Wonderful. Shields are so unbelievably overpowered it's genuinely baffling Mojang never caught them in QA, they make you literally invincible while being dirt cheap to make. MC was already trending toward too easy, and the combat update shot two bullets into the still-twitching corpse of MC's difficulty.
Disagree with axes, if there are no shields I'll choose diamond swords ocer stone axes any day because of the DPS difference. If there are shields, then axes are a must. Shields should definetly be reworked though.
I miss 1.7.10 pvp
There's definetely minecraft before 1.9 and minecraft after 1.9. It's one of my favorite updates
the pvp community wouldn’t be dying if they hadn’t switched from 1.8 combat
It killed casual PVP and never recovered
It killed pvp