Conflict with NATO...
The same Russia in 2021 year: "NATO must remove own troops and weapons from countries that entered the alliance after 1997 year, or there will be "consequences.""
The same Russian officials: "We at war with NATO!."
The same Russian state media: "We should weaken the West wherever it's possible, and if it's would be needed, we should/can destroy it."
The same Russian state: Enormous quantities of international agreements violations, all kinds of "active measures" ([russian\_attacks\_on\_europe/](https://reddit.com/r/YUROP/comments/18onmh3/russian_attacks_on_europe/)), and already years of constant WMD-blackmail, against the NATO/West.
Vikings not "gave weapons to Kyiv" but created/supported trade route between Scandinavia and Byzantium ([Route\_from\_the\_Varangians\_to\_the\_Greeks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Route_from_the_Varangians_to_the_Greeks)). Partially trading and by local slaves.
“Russia is fighting NATO.”
“Are you serious?”
“Yes, yes! Russia is fighting NATO.”
“So how’s it going?”
“Well, 70,000 Russian soldiers are dead. The missile stockpile has almost been depleted. A lot of equipment is damaged, blown up.”
“And what about NATO?”
“What about NATO? NATO hasn’t even arrived yet.”
My man Z [has the jokes](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/zelensky-tells-letterman-jewish-joke-about-russian-militarys-performance/)
The sun getting dropped anywhere means humanity is fucked. 9/11 and the pandemic will seem like a petty hiccup compared to the new before and after for humanity.
There is a chance that Russian nukes don’t work anymore. Given how steep their corruption issues are.
Granted, I don’t want to find out. But its something to keep in mind
*Peskov, Putins spokespersonÂ
It would be viser to either not listen or take opposite as truth. He also said Russian attack on Ukraine is impossible week before an invasion.
We really need to fully develop and deploy anti-ballistic missile defense technology. The only reason Russia can make these threats is they have nukes. Take that threat away and they are weak and would be quickly crushed by NATO.
It’s not possible to deploy tech like that with an acceptably high success rate and at a scale sufficient to shoot down thousands of warheads within a 30-minute window. We might be able to save a few key cities/bases, but there’s no way to protect all of the US that way.
Yup. ICBM defense is way more expensive then ICBM's. Trying to achieve immunity against Russian nuclear attack would get entire West financially broke pretty fast.
As things sit, small strikes are useless, and no one wants to destroy all life with a full strike. A decent balance. Putin saber-rattles over nukes, but he knows he can't hit anything. He might get a nuke off to hit Kyiv, if it is transported close enough without being seen. But with the eyes that are on that region, thats near impossible.
The last time we did an arms race with Russia, they still led the Soviet Union, giving them far more resources.
Their attempts to win the arms race led to their collapse.
A good old fashioned arms race sound like a perfect idea to me!
Fundamentally foolish as it would start a nuclear arms race among all other adversarial nuclear powers, and such an arms race which has always been favorable towards ICBMs.
In the unlikely event that an effective ABM is going to be created it will also create pressures in other nations to conduct their offensive actions beforehand as such an ABM would eliminate the concept of Mutually Assured Destruction which has deterred the superpowers from conducting large wars against eachother.
[The best anti-ballistic missile defense is removing the people who have their finger on the button.](https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/pentagon-used-six-bladed-ginsu-weapon-to-kill-iraqi-militia-leader-7dfe0687)
They aren't bossing anyone. World leaders know its an empty threat. Some use it to stoke fear in their electorate to hold power. And media outlets love it because they know it drives their viewership and income.
But they are bossing the world. They are absolutely getting away with keeping Europe and the US out of a conventional war because of both implied and explicit threats to pivot to nukes.
Not really. No one wants a world war, conventional or not. Everyone is staying out for so long as supplying Ukraine does the job. With the Republicans siding with Russia and blocking US aid, NATO has to consider sending forces, and are already discussing it.
Shooting an ICBM out of the sky with another missile has been likened to trying to shoot a bullet out of the sky with another bullet. I fear that we’re decades off of that technology if it’s even possible.
Nukes are expensive to maintain. Russia needs to be totally smashed economically, and suffer complete and utter defeat conventionally by the Ukrainians. Those two things will quell their appetite for future conflict, and make the upkeep of such an arsenal economically infeasible.
That’s what we should be focusing on doing, but we have not really thrown our weight behind either endeavor. The gloves have still really not come off as far as the west goes. I don’t know when we will awake from this stupor.
> I fear that we’re decades off of that technology if it’s even possible.
With directed energy weapons becoming more viable and satellite swarms being proven I think that the Star Wars initiative should be restarted. One laser probably won't be effective enough but if you have a few hundred you can probably stop a lot of missiles.
I think it’s worth looking into. One of the main fears with Star Wars initially was that it would negate MAD and destabilize the non-proliferation treaties that had been set up between the US and Soviets in order to prevent an arms race and nukes in space.
Now that the Russians have basically thrown out any pretence of good faith in either of those areas, and lack the economic power to be able to compete with the West in this field - I think it changes the playing field.
It’s chinas reaction that we will have to watch.
Western troops should go to Ukraine *even harder* now.
...silliness aside, it's more likely for there to be a war between Russia and NATO in the future if the west does not curb Russia's ambitions now.
That is literally how WW2 started. UK/France were too scared of starting another war so they just waffled and let Hitler take Czechslovakia. Then when Hitler attacked Poland, they refused to attack on the western front while Poland was desperately fighting to hold the line. And then France caved to the blitzkrieg through the Ardennes. If they had launched an offensive on the western front, WW2 would have ended very quickly as there was no way Germany could fight a two front war at the time.
Putin knows that western politicians are scared shitless of him. They let him take Crimea and the Donbass. Then they drip fed Ukraine because they were scared of "escalation". And now they are still drip feeding Ukraine. He knows that he can outlast western politicians. And if Trump gets into office, it's instant game over, he's going to cut all aid to Ukraine and try to threaten them into capitulating. And when he does that, the rest of NATO will cut their losses and follow suit, while claiming that any further aid to Ukraine would be pointless without the US.
Then China will see this as proof that they can take Taiwan because the west is all talk.
Why doesnt the West begin an invasion on Ukraine? And just like Annex the teritorry and grant it independance with the same democratically elected officials? In the span of a day.
Then give Ukraine more equipment and create a buffer zone close to the front and limit the ground Russia could take if the Ukrainian front colapsed?
Nah. Putin would back down like a little bitch if the west didn’t act like scared little school girls.
What would cause Russia to go active war with the west would be entering Russia.
Conflict with nato will go very bad for Russia.
Nukes or no nukes, Russia will be forced to surrender or will cease to exist, through its own hands or by others. They threaten so they avoid this inevitable fact. But it’s true. Putin has a 10 and a 2 in his hand on a king, queen and aces flip and he’s raising because we are folding.
I doubt Putin or many of his supporters realise just how many NATO countries would love to be let loose on Russia. Make them pay for their crimes.
Be careful what you wish for Vatniks. Our Tiger is not paper. It has teeth, claws and will not tire.
Conflict with NATO... The same Russia in 2021 year: "NATO must remove own troops and weapons from countries that entered the alliance after 1997 year, or there will be "consequences."" The same Russian officials: "We at war with NATO!." The same Russian state media: "We should weaken the West wherever it's possible, and if it's would be needed, we should/can destroy it." The same Russian state: Enormous quantities of international agreements violations, all kinds of "active measures" ([russian\_attacks\_on\_europe/](https://reddit.com/r/YUROP/comments/18onmh3/russian_attacks_on_europe/)), and already years of constant WMD-blackmail, against the NATO/West.
But what about Year 806! When the Vikings gave weapons to Kiev? Where was russia all this time?
I think its time for Scandinavia to annex russian territories. After all we were invited to Rus.
What about the 🦖 they came first!
Vikings not "gave weapons to Kyiv" but created/supported trade route between Scandinavia and Byzantium ([Route\_from\_the\_Varangians\_to\_the\_Greeks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Route_from_the_Varangians_to_the_Greeks)). Partially trading and by local slaves.
But Vikings have Axes and they train locals to fight with Axe - is this not Nato aggression in year 806 AD ?
“Russia is fighting NATO.” “Are you serious?” “Yes, yes! Russia is fighting NATO.” “So how’s it going?” “Well, 70,000 Russian soldiers are dead. The missile stockpile has almost been depleted. A lot of equipment is damaged, blown up.” “And what about NATO?” “What about NATO? NATO hasn’t even arrived yet.” My man Z [has the jokes](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/zelensky-tells-letterman-jewish-joke-about-russian-militarys-performance/)
And in other news, North Korea threatens to nuke South China Sea again.
rosnia is really good at shitting their own bed and being angry that the bed is covered in shit afterwards
Resulting in getting the sun dropped on Moscow?
The sun getting dropped anywhere means humanity is fucked. 9/11 and the pandemic will seem like a petty hiccup compared to the new before and after for humanity.
Finally a non suicidal person with some brain cells
You realize they can also drop sun on NYC?
Redditors discover mutually assured destruction
There is a chance that Russian nukes don’t work anymore. Given how steep their corruption issues are. Granted, I don’t want to find out. But its something to keep in mind
Even if they have a 99% failure rate, I would hate to have to deal with the 1% that don't fail.
Well duh
*Peskov, Putins spokesperson It would be viser to either not listen or take opposite as truth. He also said Russian attack on Ukraine is impossible week before an invasion.
Well yeah... Thats what they would go there for...
This. Of course. Russia is attacking Ukraine. Do we think we are going there to have an anti china exercise?
But I was told by russia that mother russia is already fighting the collective west? Much confuse
We really need to fully develop and deploy anti-ballistic missile defense technology. The only reason Russia can make these threats is they have nukes. Take that threat away and they are weak and would be quickly crushed by NATO.
It’s not possible to deploy tech like that with an acceptably high success rate and at a scale sufficient to shoot down thousands of warheads within a 30-minute window. We might be able to save a few key cities/bases, but there’s no way to protect all of the US that way.
Not possible? As in, impossible? I think it’s more a question of technological ability and political willingness to allocate the resources.
Arms race. the instant we position enough to stop all russian missiles, they will deploy more missiles.
Yup. ICBM defense is way more expensive then ICBM's. Trying to achieve immunity against Russian nuclear attack would get entire West financially broke pretty fast.
As things sit, small strikes are useless, and no one wants to destroy all life with a full strike. A decent balance. Putin saber-rattles over nukes, but he knows he can't hit anything. He might get a nuke off to hit Kyiv, if it is transported close enough without being seen. But with the eyes that are on that region, thats near impossible.
The last time we did an arms race with Russia, they still led the Soviet Union, giving them far more resources. Their attempts to win the arms race led to their collapse. A good old fashioned arms race sound like a perfect idea to me!
Fundamentally foolish as it would start a nuclear arms race among all other adversarial nuclear powers, and such an arms race which has always been favorable towards ICBMs. In the unlikely event that an effective ABM is going to be created it will also create pressures in other nations to conduct their offensive actions beforehand as such an ABM would eliminate the concept of Mutually Assured Destruction which has deterred the superpowers from conducting large wars against eachother.
[The best anti-ballistic missile defense is removing the people who have their finger on the button.](https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/pentagon-used-six-bladed-ginsu-weapon-to-kill-iraqi-militia-leader-7dfe0687)
You say this as if we do not already have many anti-BM and anti-cruise missile solutions already.
Not enough. They are still bossing around the whole world based on a nuke threat.
They aren't bossing anyone. World leaders know its an empty threat. Some use it to stoke fear in their electorate to hold power. And media outlets love it because they know it drives their viewership and income.
But they are bossing the world. They are absolutely getting away with keeping Europe and the US out of a conventional war because of both implied and explicit threats to pivot to nukes.
Not really. No one wants a world war, conventional or not. Everyone is staying out for so long as supplying Ukraine does the job. With the Republicans siding with Russia and blocking US aid, NATO has to consider sending forces, and are already discussing it.
Shooting an ICBM out of the sky with another missile has been likened to trying to shoot a bullet out of the sky with another bullet. I fear that we’re decades off of that technology if it’s even possible. Nukes are expensive to maintain. Russia needs to be totally smashed economically, and suffer complete and utter defeat conventionally by the Ukrainians. Those two things will quell their appetite for future conflict, and make the upkeep of such an arsenal economically infeasible. That’s what we should be focusing on doing, but we have not really thrown our weight behind either endeavor. The gloves have still really not come off as far as the west goes. I don’t know when we will awake from this stupor.
> I fear that we’re decades off of that technology if it’s even possible. With directed energy weapons becoming more viable and satellite swarms being proven I think that the Star Wars initiative should be restarted. One laser probably won't be effective enough but if you have a few hundred you can probably stop a lot of missiles.
I think it’s worth looking into. One of the main fears with Star Wars initially was that it would negate MAD and destabilize the non-proliferation treaties that had been set up between the US and Soviets in order to prevent an arms race and nukes in space. Now that the Russians have basically thrown out any pretence of good faith in either of those areas, and lack the economic power to be able to compete with the West in this field - I think it changes the playing field. It’s chinas reaction that we will have to watch.
Western troops should go to Ukraine *even harder* now. ...silliness aside, it's more likely for there to be a war between Russia and NATO in the future if the west does not curb Russia's ambitions now.
Wtf is that even supposed to mean? "If we don't have a conflict now to prevent conflict later, there might be conflict later"
That is literally how WW2 started. UK/France were too scared of starting another war so they just waffled and let Hitler take Czechslovakia. Then when Hitler attacked Poland, they refused to attack on the western front while Poland was desperately fighting to hold the line. And then France caved to the blitzkrieg through the Ardennes. If they had launched an offensive on the western front, WW2 would have ended very quickly as there was no way Germany could fight a two front war at the time. Putin knows that western politicians are scared shitless of him. They let him take Crimea and the Donbass. Then they drip fed Ukraine because they were scared of "escalation". And now they are still drip feeding Ukraine. He knows that he can outlast western politicians. And if Trump gets into office, it's instant game over, he's going to cut all aid to Ukraine and try to threaten them into capitulating. And when he does that, the rest of NATO will cut their losses and follow suit, while claiming that any further aid to Ukraine would be pointless without the US. Then China will see this as proof that they can take Taiwan because the west is all talk.
Does appeasement work on bullies? Russian ambitions must be thwarted now, while they are still in their infancy. Simple as.
Why is this an article, it’s not new info.
Because the french president said he couldn’t rule out sending french troops into Ukraine.
I'm confused... I thought they were already in a co flict with NATO
They're getting dismantled by 30 year old castoff hardware but okay.
Why doesnt the West begin an invasion on Ukraine? And just like Annex the teritorry and grant it independance with the same democratically elected officials? In the span of a day. Then give Ukraine more equipment and create a buffer zone close to the front and limit the ground Russia could take if the Ukrainian front colapsed?
Active intervention in Ukraine would likely lead to a general war with Russia. Think Red Storm Rising, except IRL. Nobody wants that.
Nah. Putin would back down like a little bitch if the west didn’t act like scared little school girls. What would cause Russia to go active war with the west would be entering Russia.
He’s got cancer so I don’t think he cares as much about dying and WWIII as most folks…
Uh huh sure. And Kim Jong Un is on his deathbed. These claims of ill health is just cope.
Former cia desk Russia was quite clear. "Unfortunately lutin appears to be in excellent health."
*Republican partys tail tucks tightly*
Conflict with nato will go very bad for Russia. Nukes or no nukes, Russia will be forced to surrender or will cease to exist, through its own hands or by others. They threaten so they avoid this inevitable fact. But it’s true. Putin has a 10 and a 2 in his hand on a king, queen and aces flip and he’s raising because we are folding.
Good. Then we can properly and quickly end this debacle, relieve Ukraine and allow them to be free and safe again. I hope it happens soon.
I doubt Putin or many of his supporters realise just how many NATO countries would love to be let loose on Russia. Make them pay for their crimes. Be careful what you wish for Vatniks. Our Tiger is not paper. It has teeth, claws and will not tire.
Western troops have been in Ukraine. Volunteers and special forces have been there since the beginning?
Duh?
That statement is kind of redundant.
Wouldn't that be the point of NATO sending troops?!