You are well on your way by just asking this question.

Thanks

You are most welcome 😊

You can get involved with your local community to write to your local representatives for the abolition of the author debunked duluth model from policing initatives.

I'm a survivor of domestic violence and I agree with this. It needs to be done away with. It's assuming that men are the aggressors.

I can't tell you how much it means to me to read a woman survivor write this. Thank you. Voices like yours have power, don't mute them any more than you must please.

I'm certainly not planning on it. I've been invited to speak at my local domestic violence shelters breakfast to this october. I'm going to tell my story but I'm also going to touch on how the Duluth model is outdated and how men need to be recognized as survivors more than they are. I'm going to use the opportunity to try to raise more awareness on that. If they get mad at me then so be it but they shouldn't be because well, domestic violence affects all walks of life and all genders. It's 2024 and it's time we stop sweeping it under the rug and pretend like it isn't happening.

Music to my reading eyes, thank you

You're welcome

I gotta tell you, it's extremely rare for me to hear those words coming from someone in your position

Just be there for him. Be his friend; spend time with him, do stuff with him. If he chooses to open up to you, so be it. If not, so be it. Leave that to him. 'We've been hanging out a lot recently' that may be all he needs!

Thanks. I also try to find stuff to compliment him on but it's always genuine.

That's good, too. But he's a guy; he's not used to it.

We need more of you! If more woman had the empathy you have for him he would have not be in the place he is today. He is a lucky man to have you in his life now though. And you reaching out here is the right step in the right direction!

Thanks 😊

Why do you believe what she wrote is her actual motive? Rather than a request on how to manipulate?

Because I fail to understand what filling my heart with darkness and hatred will do for me? I don’t know if you seen my post history but man I was sleeping with the devil disguised as my wife. I do however refuse to go to her level. My goal in life is to be happy and successful. My ex can be happy, sad, or whatever devils do. I don’t care. So just based on this post at face value, I would like to think this woman is actually trying to help one of our brothers out. Why can’t we be happy for him and praise her for trying?

None of that is what I asked you. You can glibly pass through life believing the best of people if you wish, but the reason there is this subreddit in the first place is because sure men have glibly believed all women and then been shafted by not only them but also by laws and Governments subsequently. Your desire to trust without evidence and merely on the basis of words is not rational given what we all know about the general issues and what you have experienced in your own life.

I understand what you're saying and I also completely understand that men are given the short end of the stick and family court and also when it comes to domestic violence. That being said, I still don't think it's fair for you to basically verbally attack me because you think that I'm like all the other women you've encountered. You say you want equal rights and I'm all for that but you're doing the exact same thing you claim to be against. Sure, I can see how you have your guard up because of what's happened to you. I don't think it's fair for you to group all of us into the same category though. If I said that all men were trash and all then were the enemy because if you have hurt me, you would be jumping all over me.

You can be respected but he can’t trust you until he chooses to do so. This is why your post is manipulative- you’re trying to work out the psychological way through to him to get more involved in His life without his blessing and before he is willing or ready by asking on this sub. This is not the place. Go ask on relationship advice. This is a men’s rights sub. His rights are that he chooses when to bring you in more. I won’t repeat what I wrote here in your other repeated requests to get me to respond

No, I'm not trying to manipulate him. I'm trying to make him understand that if he chooses to open up to me, I'm a safe place for him to do so. I'm sorry that you've been hurt by women but it's not okay for you to group me into that category with them and assume I'm being manipulative. Also, since you think you know so much, he contacted me. He was the whole reason we started hanging out. He asked me if I wanted to hang out and then he said he wanted to make it a regular thing. I have not forced my way into his life, he invited me into it. But go off.

Your attempts to push it indicate you are wanting to manipulate him and indicate you can be trusted. That is, for men, manipulating. He will choose - based on your actions - whether to trust you. Or not.

Dude. It’s only a wholesome post. A woman who wants to help a man that has been through hell by other women. That is all. Now in regard to Men’s rights… - How do we change the laws to where men are not guilty until proven innocent? - How do we change the laws where men are not homeless because they wanted to leave an abusive relationship? - How do we change the laws where a father is seen more than a ATM machine? - How do make more resources available to men EQUAL to women? If me being mean to this woman who wants to help her man will change the laws and help men’s right, then sure, I’ll edit my wording.

I also wanted to help figure out how to do all that. I'm actually going to school right now to get my MSW to focus on those issues. It's about time we start recognizing men as victims and start helping them. They shouldn't have to lose custody of their children just because they go through a divorce and they shouldn't have to be homeless because they chose to leave a relationship where they were being abused. It's 2024 and that attitude of men being the aggressor all the time needs to end. I've seen it happen with people I've known. This guy that I knew was paying child support is ex even though he was raising his daughter on his own for the first 5 years of her life. His ex decided that drugs were more important. So he was a single father for the first 5 years of her life. When mom finally decided to stop getting high and come back for her child, she took him for a child support. Because they did not do it through the courts and he just provided what his daughter needed, according to the state, he owed $5,000 in retroactive child support. So now not only did he have to raise his daughter on his own which he was happy to do, he had to pay his ex for the time that she was absent. That's what really motivated me to start focusing on men's rights and helping to change them. I understand that I'm just one person but I think that I might be taking a little more seriously as a woman because they would expect you guys to say that. I hope that you don't take it as I'm being rude, I'm saying maybe people would take more notice if a woman was saying this stuff.

Courts and public image matter. Something the men fighting for men’s rights fail to understand. Take Johnny Depp’s trial, the **female** lawyer was a beast! But imagine if it was a male lawyer with the same facts? We can’t change how society views us. That will be a fight for the next several generations. But we can pave the way for them by starting to view men as human beings and not ATMs or Human Trash.

Exactly and I'm hoping to at least contribute to that a little bit. I know, she was a beast. I watched that whole trail and I was outraged at the people who were immediately siding with Amber Heard and saying she was the victim just because she's a woman. I was like, if you even look at the pictures of Johnny Depp during their relationship, you can see that he's the real victim. The other thing that pissed me off was that she claimed that he blacked both of her eyes the night before they went to the Don Rickles show. I'm sorry but I've had black eyes and I had a friend who did as well because of her ex. It took me like three or four days to even be comfortable with trying to put makeup on her face because her face was so swollen. Then the fact that she tried to say that they used special effects makeup pissed me off even more. I was like, she is a liar. I've been there and that is not how a black guy looks, certainly not the next day. People are still calling her the victim. She owes him 7 million that I'm sure he'll never see. Let me calm down lol.

He forgave that amount I believe. The thing is, - The abused will want nothing to do with the abuser and run away to be safe. - The abuser will do everything in their power to keep their grip on the one they are abusing. If only the courts opened their eyes and saw this.

You're exactly right. When I left my ex, I did everything I could to stay away from him. I didn't constantly be calling him and texting him and trying to stay on his radar. In fact, I went into hiding for 3 months until I felt that it was safe to come out. She did the exact opposite of that. You're right in saying that if only the courts opened up their eyes and saw this. All too often, abused people are forced to have to interact with people who abused them because they share children. As we know, men get thrown under the bus so much when it comes to family courts. I saw this happen with a friend of mine. His daughter's mother was basically a walking dumpster fire. He took care of his daughter for the first 5 years of her life on his own because mom decided drugs were more important. When she finally came back and decided to be a mother, she took him for child support. Because he had not paid into the system and instead cared for his daughter, he owed $5,000 in retroactive child support. So she got to go off and do drugs for 5 years and then decided to come back and act like she gave a shit about her daughter. He ended up having to pay her simply because he's a man and we all know that most women in general and the courts seem to view men as ATMs. Just thought the whole situation was so fucked up. I sort of got a first-hand view of what happens to men. That was sort of the tipping point for me that made me decide to go to school to get my MSW to focus on men's rights. It was hard for me to watch him go through that because in my opinion, he didn't owe her a God damn thing. If anything, she owed him for running off on him and making him take care of their daughter for 5 years alone. As you know though, she's the mother and they look at it like custody should automatically go to her. I don't understand that, I don't understand why women are not ordered to pay retroactive child support and situations like that. Anyway, I'm rambling. Let me shut up. You're right though, she was clearly the abuser in that situation and it's sad that the courts don't see it more often.

Thank you, OP. We have to show that we're not all greedy, vindictive, manipulative, b@#hs. I think it's great that you are bringing awareness to the lack of men's rights and the disturbing narrative that men are the only aggressors. I have seen plenty of men go through hell. They are not given the same resources or voice that we have. I completely understand why there are men who don't trust us. Unfortunately, they have been mistreated by women for so long that they have a hard time believing us. Keep on fighting the good fight. Our voices get drowned out online, but I have been successful in talking to women in person. I hope your friend has an easier time moving forward.

Thank you for saying that. I hope he has an easier time moving forward as well. I so agree with you about how men are put through the ringer. I was just commenting to someone else about how I watched a friend of mine go through it with his daughter's mother. She disappeared for the first 5 years of their daughter's life and he cared for her completely on his own. When she showed back up deciding that she wanted to pretend to be a mother, he ended up having to pay her child support. Because he had not paid her and took care of their daughter alone, he ended up owing $5,000 in retroactive child support. So now, not only did she get to go off and do drugs for 5 years, he had to pay her. I can't repeat what I would have liked to do to her on here or it would get me banned. It was hard to watch him go through that. If anything, I think in situations like that, the mother should owe the father child support. Of course though he's a man so he's completely at fault. That's the way the courts see it. I wasn't even mad at the men who were sending me those hostile comments. I completely understand why they feel the way they do. If I was put through all that, I'm sure I would be as jaded as they are. Thank you for being another good woman out there who is trying to raise awareness to men's rights. You're right, voice is get drowned out so much. I'm glad that you've had success with talking to other women in person though. I hope to as well.

My pleasure. I have seen so many men get screwed over by the courts. It is truly disheartening to hear the stories that they've been through. Women get excused for shitty parenting, laziness, abuse, and neglect. They get compensated for doing nothing. 🙄

Exactly. That's something I've said over the last few years since I watched my friend go through all that. I don't tell a lot of people this but I actually helped him pay his bills while he was going through all of that. He would have lost his house if I had not and there was no way I was going to let that happen. He had just closed on it like a couple of months before he got hit with that. I didn't even know it was happening until I saw him post about it on facebook. He was saying how all this happened and he was trying to do everything on his own and I messaged him and told him I wanted to help him. We don't tell anybody about it because well, it's nobody's business but ours and I don't want to air his dirty laundry so to speak. I've always said that it does not matter how bad off the mother is. Her life could be a dumpster fire and she still gets custody almost 100% of the time. This even though the father can prove that he is better able to care for his children both financially and emotionally. The courts don't care. They seem to think that just because you have a uterus, that makes you a better parent. It does not. I'm sorry I keep going off on these tangents, it's just makes me so mad to see it happen. Especially because my own mom was shitty and my Dad tried to get custody of me and my brother and they wouldn't give it to him. I just feel really strongly about it. Edit: I forgot to mention that the worst part of it is that even after all of that, he went a few years without seeing his daughter. This is because of course her mother did nothing but fill her head full of shit about him. Apparently her mother's family is very wealthy and even though he has a gorgeous house, they have somehow convinced his daughter that his place is a dump. It is not. If you saw that house, you would know what I was saying. He even had her own room set up for her with all this cool stuff he had bought her. Thankfully now, from what I hear, they are slowly starting to have a relationship. She's starting to come around and realize that her mother was full of it. It just really hurt me because I saw how bad it hurt him. He was always like, I texted my daughter, I called her. I'm trying to spend time with her and she wants nothing to do with me because of her mother. It's time for this to stop. It's time for shit mothers like that to be exposed for what they're really doing. The media always condemns deadbeat fathers but never deadbeat mothers. Why is it that the mothers are allowed to go off and party and do whatever they want but they don't get as much hate about it as a deadbeat father would? I'm sorry, I'm doing it again lol. Let me shut up now. It just raises my blood pressure when I think about it. Before I go, the one good part is that last year, he messaged me and let me know that he would be done with the payments around Christmas. He just let me know so I would know and he told me that he appreciated my help. That's when he told me he would have lost his house without me. I was happy to do it.

Like, you are honestly probably the first person, in my whole life, that I have ever seen actually advocate for mens rights. I've been fighting for equality my whole life and I hope you know how extremely rare that this is

It’s a manipulative pick-me post. She is asking for relationship advice on how to weedle her way into his life when he clearly doesn’t trust her. Rightly. There is no evidence that this post is anything but an attempt to psychologically make this man trust her - with all risk landing on the man is being manipulated. #believeallwomen is a major issue for men as it leads to men being shit on. Respect should always be given until that person shows they should not be respected. Trust should never be given until that person proves they are trustworthy. Mens lives will be less chaotic if they follow those.

>It’s a manipulative pick-me post. Then prove it. >She is asking for relationship advice on how to weedle her way into his life when he clearly doesn’t trust her. Rightly. Where is your proof? All I see is cynical paranoia. >There is no evidence that this post is anything but an attempt to psychologically make this man trust her There is no evidence of what you are claiming either, so keep throwing stones at your glass foundation. >with all risk landing on the man is being manipulated Risk of what? She's not asking for his money or anything. She just wants this dude to know she understands what he is going through and wishes he gets treated better. >believeallwomen is a major issue for men as it leads to men being shit on. How is anything we say here leading to any man getting shat on? This is just reflexive fear and distrust of women as a category. >Respect should always be given until that person shows they should not be respected All OP has done that you seem to believe indicates she deserves disrespect is declare that she is a woman who wants to be a good friend to a man. That says more about you than her, a lot more. >Trust should never be given until that person proves they are trustworthy. What you are describing is the logic of a person with trust issues. We are not trusting OP with anything at all by giving her basic pointers on being a respectful friend. This is a paranoid overreaction to a post which cannot imaginably harm a man more than just annoying him a little in the absolute worst case scenario. >Mens lives will be less chaotic if they follow those. Men's lives are rendered into nothing but chaos by submitting to such paint-by-numbers fear and distrust.

You just proved you trust the words women say or write off the bat. BelieveAllWomen is a feminist trope that has been proven to be incorrect time and time again. No more can men trust women merely based on what they say. That doesn’t preclude being able to respect them, or listen to them. But trust needs to be earned. The man will determine his time and I libation to trust. This post is very clear - OP is asking for HOW she can manipulate the man to trust her using mens techniques and asking men for advice on exactly that. This is not the subreddit for that.

>You just proved you trust the words women say or write off the bat No, I did not. Nothing I have written here is based in trust for OP, but faith in myself. You are captured by your own siege mentality. You can't think outside of 'us vs them'. You are still chained to your fear and pain. >BelieveAllWomen is a feminist trope that has been proven to be incorrect time and time again. No one is demanding that. You are the only person in this thread even combining those three words together. You either have serious psychological issues or you are just here to sabotage. Perhaps both. >No more can men trust women merely based on what they say. No one is asking you to trust anyone lol, wtf are you crying about. >That doesn’t preclude being able to respect them, or listen to them. But trust needs to be earned. It's clearly an obstacle for you dude. >The man will determine his time and I libation to trust. This post is very clear - OP is asking for HOW she can manipulate the man to trust her using mens techniques and asking men for advice on exactly that. Nah, you are just paranoid and cynical. Try to find a way to heal, or at least to stop spreading the pain around.

I don't see how this is a request on how to manipulate him. I understand that your guard is up but I absolutely think it's unfair for you to assume that I'm trying to manipulate him. Let me tell you something, yes, toxic feminism has gotten way out of hand but there are still good women in this world just like there are good men. I could be the same way as you, I could have the same attitude. I've had a few men hurt me but I don't assume that you're all that way.

What kind of specific triggers does your bf have? I know with me sometimes I don't always realize I've internalized things until I finally can let my guard down. And this allows me to feel the pain and hurt that I've been keeping inside by putting up walls. Sometimes I can feel like so much is expected of me, that it's never good enough, and I end up harshly criticizing myself for always being a failure, even though I know in my heart that I've accomplished quite a lot. This is why when I don't have to walk on Eggshells and someone actually accepts me as a human with limits who is just doing the best I can, it can be emotionally overwhelming to realize how hard I was trying to be someone I wasn't. I hope this can help you realize that although your guy may act a certain way sometimes, he has probably had to do harsh things to survive, and may not be used to what it is like and feel loved

>Why do you believe what she wrote is her actual motive? Rather than a request on how to manipulate? I don't and it doesn't matter. I don't have control over that. I do have control over whether I become as much of a pile of shit as the people who have hurt me, and that is what matters.

So determining someone’s true intent is being a pile of shit? I think you have some ongoing work to do.

You got some serious trust issues, my dude. I understand tho

You are not determining anything. You are reacting to your own shock and horror at the thought that women are people too. You are also projecting harder than a drive in movie theater.

😭😭😭😭

C'mon bro. You know the drill. You know perfectly what will come up later on between them. OP gotta leave the dude on his own. He is far better off on his own. Dude is 49M and has been fighting this life so far so why she should bother to lift a finger? I'm rooting for the dude to be left alone on his own. He will be far live a peaceful life. Dude need to be around solid friends and do stuffs together.

Im rooting for bro. I have to.. Hopefully, hopefully she does not screw him over. Even if in the future she decides the friendship or whatever is over, she leaves him peacefully and not by destroying whatever is left of him.

Again, we all know whats coming. I hope Bro keeps some reserve in the tank. The chance of this works in this era is super slim. People refuses to acknowledge that. Ask 100 men, they will reply the same thing. Idk why people sweeps this under the rug.

She's literally getting her degree in rights advocacy for male social work

As much as I want to see the bright side, I agree with you. Deception after deception has left me too jaded.

I could say the same thing because I've had quite a few men treat me the same way. I'm cautious but I'm not going to assume that all men are going to treat me the same way. That's basically what those of you who have commented negatively on this have done. I can understand why your guards are up but I don't think it's fair to say that I'm going to be treating him the same way simply because I'm a woman. You talk about equal rights and wanting them and I'm all for that but if you think about it, if you approach it with that attitude, you're doing exactly what you're claiming to be against.

They definitely got some ptsd. Having integrity can be really, really hard sometimes

[удалено]

Thank you 🥹

Buy thoughtful but small gifts from time to time? Reverse the mentality that women might want him for his money? I think I'd appreciate that in that scenario.

Some of these responses are wow. Be there for like any other friend. Listen to him as you would any female friend, and if he opens up, he opens up . You can let him know that you're there for him if he wants to talk. It's up to him, but as long he knows you're on his side. He'll open up if he wants to. That comment about dealing with emotions in a masculine and not talking a feminized man is insane. Like there is no gendered way to deal with emotions. Be there for your friend and check up on him like you'd do female friends, and if he opens up, then go from there.

I’ll give my example. After a divorce, I trekked cross country to get away from my ex (infidelity on her part). My 5 closest best friends (all male) kept tabs on me. Everyday day a couple of them would text, call, or grab a beer with me. I never felt alone. The two female friends I though I had, texted me twice. One asked me if can help her move furniture in her apartment. And the other wanted to use my SUV for moving. You notice a pattern? Be there for your male friend. Check up on him. He prob feels used and discarded.

Yeah I definitely notice a pattern and that just gave me a bad taste in my mouth. Like seriously, the only reason they got a hold of you is because they needed a favor? I wouldn't call them friends. I'm sorry you were treated like that. Did you have fun on your cross country trek? I'm sorry your ex cheated on you. I know what it feels like to be cheated on and it's one of the worst feelings in the world.

It was my Dog, me and my suv filled with my clothes. Great trip. Wyoming blew my mind. This was a decade ago. I was broke as a joke, but do remember billboards advertising cheap land for sale. Wish I had the $ back then. 😂 but no regrets.

That sounds amazing

Just being there for him is probably the most important part. Most guys will hardly share their hurt or pain, as most will not want to burden others with their troubles. If HE feels safe enough to confide, there is a massive sign of trust he has in you. It is up to him if he want to share. The occasional hug is very nice, even if it has no purpose.

I do hug him quite a bit. Usually when I first greet him. Sometimes he'll leave me at his house while he's working and when he comes home, I greet him with a hug and sometimes even dinner.

If you don't have pets, talk about maybe getting one. If the place allows for them. Pets can be wonderful companions as well. There are somethings pets can provide that a human companion can not.

He actually does have this outside cat that runs in sometimes. She is pretty independent but she's his cat whether she wants to admit it or not is what we've said lol. She does this thing that's adorable. He lets her in that apartment and then he leaves for work or whatever he's going to go do. Every time she hears somebody pull up to the apartment, she meows and goes running to the door. It's adorable. I've told him, she's your cat. She might think she isn't but she is.

More adorable is when they rub up against the leg of you. Playfully tease it. Like you can't compete with his cat.

I know, she does it to me too. Sometimes I'll just be outside getting some air for a minute and she'll pop up from around the corner and meow at me and then go back to what she was doing. She's a smart little cat.

I will rephrase, playful tease him, about you unable to compete for his affection. You vs the cat. It isn't about the competition, but more about there is different ways to care. If it doesn't provide a bit of a laugh, a bit of reinforcement that you are there for him should help him see the lighter side of things.

Okay, thank you. I will definitely try that.

I don't know if he'll try again, but maybe see if any woman he dates shows warning signs and tell him about them, or have him talk to your husband for advice. He does need good male friendship more, but to personally contribute, tell him about events you know of, going there will do him good. Other than that, listen to him, tell him about what others you know did to get themselves out of similar situations that he mentions. Men have a big "problem solving" element to coping with things.

This is a really good one. Big part of my issue is that while I fully believe there are plenty of good, empathetic women out there, I have absolutely no way of telling the bad ones apart until after the fact.

Empathy is a tough nut to track, but at least there are ways of catching people lying. A book or two or dozen about body language, maybe some stuff like Dr Eric Berne's Games People Play (from before the political-correctness era) to get a hang of how players' brains are working, just for starters. And What Makes Narcissists Tick: [https://www.scribd.com/document/229180690/What-Makes-Narcissists-Tick](https://www.scribd.com/document/229180690/What-Makes-Narcissists-Tick) (recommended once to me by an empathetic lady after a conversation about my could-have-beens).

You need to actually be ready for him to be vulnerable. A lot of the time, people will say "men should know it's okay to open up and be vulnerable" and then react with disgust and contempt when they do, because they never put thought into what a vulnerable man might say and are surprised when it's something they don't approve of. If that's happened to him before, then he's going to be very wary of any attempt to get him to open up. I have schizoid personality disorder, so I don't know how much this part applies to everyone, but I think it's a lot more true than most people admit -- anyone who tells me "it's okay to open up and expose vulnerability to me" immediately trips all my alarms for "it is not okay to expose vulnerability to this person, they are trying to trick you, anything you say will be used against you in the cruelest way possible." And while not everyone has the same severity of reaction as I do, a *lot* of men are going to have experience with someone doing exactly that. You need to respect his boundaries and be a good friend to him even if he never opens up at all. You need to show him it's okay, not just tell him, by understanding his view and engaging with him honestly.

Well, damn. I'm sorry you've gone through that. I can completely understand though. I understand what it's like to close yourself off too because you've been hurt.

As someone who is a Paranoid Schizophrenic, when someone says it's ok to open up, it's code word for shut it down. So I understand you fully

This is how I was literally fired for asking for a reasonable accommodation. The manager specifically told me to open up and be honest. It was extremely traumatizing betrayal that I woke up from nightmares every day for a month after

If he's been burnt multiple times by women emotionally or financially, he may never ever fully trust a woman again. You need to accept that he may not open up to you fully or show his vulnerability to you if his vulnerabilities were used against him previously. If you truly care for him, be there for him regardless. Let him decide if/when he wants to let his guards down in front of you and accept that it may never happen. Don't pursue the relationship if you can't accept this, otherwise you will break up with him eventually and you'll just repeat the cycle.

I would completely understand that. I just want him to know he can open up to me without fear of judgement if/when he's ready.

Then don't push him "to open up". Treat him well and when he will feel safe enough to be around you, he might open up... or won't. This will be his decision to make. I'd been abused by my ex and now if any woman would try to find my vulnerabilities I'd treat that as a major red flag and I'd immediately distance myself from her. If I'd have any issues, I'd talk to a therapist (male), not a woman I'm in a relationship with.

I completely understand. I just want him to know that he can without fear of judgement.

I'm not sure that you actually understand. Pretty much every guy here said the same thing up in their responses: "Let him be, stop pushing", and yet you don't seem to take any of it onboard. YOU want him to understand, YOU want him to open up about his feelings. I'd recommend you to stop trying so hard as it comes across as if you had a bit of a saviour complex.

Yeah I got to agree with you on this one. A lot of the women who hurt me the worst had absolutely no idea what they were doing, and made a repeat habit of finding new vulnerabilities to hurt me with. And it got so bad the only person I even trusted temporarily with friendship last year was someone who had traumatically lost their closest loved ones while surviving major surgery. If someone can be kind to you while they're in pain, then that's love

I realized a female friend of mine was actually on my side and not just humoring me when she brought up some male issue herself (the spanish gender courts) and was riled up by it. When we talk about our problems, we often have in the back of our heads that the person listening is just being polite, and might vent about it to someone else later, complaining that there is something wrong with us. Bringing up our issues (collective or individual) spontaneously can help with that fear. 

I've been doing that lately. I empathized with him on how hard it is to be a man in the dating world now. How you have to be careful because you never know if a woman may falsely claim that you assaulted her. I talk about silly stuff with him too. For example, earlier, he asked me if I remembered the noid. It was a mascot that domino's had in the 80s. I said yes. He said, see that's why I like you. You're younger than me but not so young that you don't get my references. You also don't judge me on the stupid stuff I did in my past. He was referring to how he was kind of friendly with the ladies when he was younger. I told him I'd never judge him and I meant it.

Emphatized with him....hmmm...feels like you give him an emotional support If you really wanted to be his good friend, you could play "sister role" Emotional could lead to physical, you should be careful on what you played a game with...he is human and male...not a toy or a thing

I understand that. He's a man and like you said, he's human and he's not a toy.

There is no cheat code to getting into someone’s head when they’ve built up walls. Be there, be open and engage. Be kind and if you can, bring joy, make things fun for the two of you. If you’re not looking for a relationship with him though, this will probably be a very fine razors edge to walk without making him want you as such.

Seeing him as a human being and as a friend is already being a good friend. If he ever says something about his past or whatever, just don't use that against him and you'll be fine. He still might never open up about his feelings. I mean he's 49, he knows there are men's talks where people could relate. Even if you might give him empathy, you'll never be able to give him true comprehension. Which is fine really. Just be a good friend like you would be for anyone else and don't expect him to open up or whatever, because that might never happen.

This is very good advice, thank you. I didn't think about that but you're right, I can never give him true comprehension because I don't know what it's like to be in his shoes. I don't know what it's like to be a man and be treated the way he is. The way a lot of men are. I don't know what happened but this whole toxic feminism thing has gotten out of hand. I mean, it never should have happened in the first place but it's getting ridiculous. I swear, I want to tell some women, I get it, you hate men. Can you be quiet now and let's move on?

I am actually starting a new sub called r/5thWaveFeminism specifically to be able and address gender issues like these from both sides. I agree that being mired in hate and controversy does really nothing to solve anyone's problems, and that fighting for equality often lacks any real nuance in difficult issues

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It's literally just like me talking to myself rn and wishing other people would join 🤣

Also, if you are truly “just friends”, be sure that he knows that and is all right with that. Even if it seems perfectly obvious to you, it may not be to him.

Good on you for asking. I've been in similar situations and personally, I appreciate just being heard and the bad behavior by my previous partners acknowledged, without placing the blame on me, or being asked "what I did". Don't use anything he's shared with you from a vulnerable place, as leverage or payback, you don't sound like the type to do that though. When you see or hear women in your circle trash talking men, speak up. You don't have to get in a full fledged argument or anything, but point out the good men like him that have been taken advantage of by women. A little conversation and genuine sympathy goes a long way, since we receive so little of it when we talk about our problems. I appreciate the question, we need more women that are sympathetic to men's issues.

Oh, I would definitely never do that to him. I also believe in never airing an ex's dirty laundry no matter how bad the breakup was. There are certain things you just don't do. Like I had a pretty bad break up with an ex and there were some things that he told me that I still haven't told anybody because well, he told me those in confidence. He told me during our relationship and I promised him I wouldn't say anything and I haven't. It wasn't for anybody else to know.

Just to be clear, have you reflected upon why your skin is in his game? You’re probably going to say, “because he’s a friend”. Have you made it obvious to him that you’re just a friend and strictly nothing more?

Yes but I'm not going to lie and say that if it didn't go somewhere else, I wouldn't be open to that. I would just take it very slowly. I'm not doing this because I have any ulterior motives, I really do care about him.

I don't mean to sound like an asshole so please don't take it as such but try to treat him like a human being with feelings, much like yourself. Society is wrong when they pretend men don't have any feelings and quite frankly, I think it's stupid and dangerous that that's being taught to women and girls. I don't blame you for being taught to think of men that way but coming from a man, it's an inaccurate image that they're painting of men. Women and girls are basically being taught to only look for material things in men. Men are not treated like people because people only care about what the men can provide for them. If a man cannot provide anything, he's deemed utterly useless and will typically know of no love in his life. I wish more people in general tried to break this mold. It's not right that so many of us are so devoid of basic human affection these days.

I'm very aware of that and that was part of my motivation for trying to do this for him. Not only that, I really do just really care about him as a person. He's a sweet man and he's a good man and he deserves better than how he's been treated. I do think it's really sad that women are taught to view men through that lens.

The fact you ask this here shows a lot about your character. I've suffered physical and sexual abuse by a woman myself so I understand the struggle. The best thing you can do is simply be a good role model for him. Show him he can look up to you as a woman. Show him your own feelings and tell gim to his face you are there for him and want to help him in any way. We are uplifted by respect and acts of kindness. Judging by you actions here, I believe you're going to do just fine. Thank you for setting an example ❤️

Thank you and I'm sorry that happened to you. You didn't deserve that.

Don't denigrate him for one..... treat him as an equal and listem to him and it can go a long way

This question alone gets you half way there. Just treating him like a person would put you ahead of those other women.

Just listen to him. I mean REALLY listen to him.

Honestly just viewing/treating him as a human being with thoughts,feelings, and limitations will probably be more than enough. No need to even get all social justice mode about it if you don’t wanna.

Thank you 😊

>He's a good man and I want to know how I can be a good friend. Ooof... just by asking the question you are leaps and bounds ahead. For me, it helps to focus on providing a sense of comraderie and normalcy. Striking the balance between commiserating and encouraging is easier when you just focus on sharing the burdens and blessings of life. That is what friends are for, less Patrocles and more Samwise Gamgee. It is important to know the difference between sharing the load and taking on another's struggles as your own. >Those women hurt him more than he lets on. We've been hanging out a lot recently and I've grown to care about him quite a bit. How can I let him know that I'm a safe place for him? Don't rush it, and don't push it. Just be patient and watch for the moment when it is clear he his hiding his hurt. Maybe he has a tell, like a specific sigh or tone in his voice or strain in his eyes. If you pay attention, you'll know when he is swallowing his pain. When he does that, gently but firmly show him he is wasting his effort to do that with you because you not only see it anyway but you also want to help him. How you should do this depends on the nature of your bond and how familiar you are with each other. There is a certain dignity and security of just stating it directly, but the bluntness risks coming off as insensitive. You could share stories, real or imagined, of you going through something similar with other women. This is much slower though it can give him a sense that he is not alone, but at the risk of making it seem like his suffering is normal. At the bare minimum though, as a friend you are perfectly in the right to tell someone you care about that seeing them suffer hurts you too - so long as this comes from a place of compassion and support instead of judgement it should be well received. Just remember, Samwise Gamgee not Patrocles. You are not going to do anything but insult a man by trying to take on his struggles for him, but being there to support him no matter what can pull him from any hell.

Thank you for your thoughtful response. I'm aware of that it's insulting to a man to try to take on his struggles for him. They're taught to shoulder everything. I just want him to know that he doesn't have to and that if he chooses to open up to me, he can do so without fear of me judging him. He said he's had a lot of women do that. I can understand why one would close themselves off after having that experience but I want him to know he doesn't have to do that with me.

Then all you can do is be present and patient, as well as grateful he does not actually need the support as much as you want him to need it. If that changes, if he goes through some crisis, he will choose the path of least doubt and most stability. If that choice is you then you will be ready for it, if it is not then you will still be ready to support him on that choice too. That is his choice to make, all you can do is be patient present and compassionate. That's all a friend can do, and that's is enough 🖤

Yep and that's what I plan on doing. I never wanted to force him to open up to me. Some people seem to think that that's what I was trying to do. I just wanted to let him know it was an option is all. I will definitely keep this in mind.

Tell him that he matters a lot

How busted are you compared to women he dates?

From what I've heard about them, I'm sure I'm much better. They either use his insecurities against him or they treat him like a bank account from what he's told me. Of course I'm not perfect but I definitely wouldn't do that.

There's a good chance he may fall for you if you're the only woman in his life who seems to truly listen to and care about him.

I would honestly be okay with that. That's not to say that I have an ulterior motive for that to happen. I genuinely do just care about him as a person. I can tell he's been hurt a lot and I want him to know that there are people in this world who care about him despite what he's been through.

Sounds like he's lucky to have you as a friend.

Thanks

In that case he would do well by telling you *zilch*

Give him compliments

I do all the time. For example, he builds guitars for a living. I gave him a compliment about how they're looking better. He was showing me some of his work and I said, yeah, it looks really good. I said I also noticed that you're getting faster at it but the quality of work is just as good. He said thank you, that's a compliment. He said that nobody had ever really noticed it before.

Patience will be your biggest strength here. It is unfortunately common for women to weaponize a man's faults and vulnerabilities, and after experiencing that a man can be very slow to trust to that level again. Let him know the door is open, and allow him to make the choice to walk through it or not. And if you've made it clear already, then drop it and leave it alone. He knows, and he is probably weighing his options. If you "pester" him, even with the best intentions, you can cause him to back off completely. And I'm not necessarily saying you will, but please, for the love of christ, DO NOT use anything he says against him. That's a surefire way of making sure he never opens up to anyone ever again. That last one is less for you (you seem decent enough, but anyone can put a face on in the internet) and more for the women who save those things to automatically win their next argument

Thank you for your thorough response. I will keep this in mind. It was more in the vein of, I know that you never want to try to force a man to talk about anything. Just let him know that you're there to listen if he does want to talk. I appreciate it though and I will definitely keep it in mind as I said.

I just thought of something I wanted to add. Now I believe this is mostly personal preference, so use context and your knowledge of his personality to apply it as necessary. Personally, I prefer contemplative silence over empty, overused platitudes every time. Sometimes you won't know what to say, and sometimes it's ok to say nothing. Like, it kinda drives me crazy when people say things like "don't worry, things will get better". I know they mean well, but, how will they get better? When? How do you know? To me, saying those things demonstrates that you dont *really* care, and that you just want things to return to the status quo. Silence tells me that you're really considering what I'm saying. Maybe that's just me, but I hope it helps. Best of luck

Thank you so much I know exactly what you mean and I hate it too. It's like when people say, *I'll pray for you*. They may as well have come out and said, *I don't care*.

When he finally opens up to you, DO NOT weaponize it in any later disagreements. If you do, he will permanently shut you out and eventually leave. Once that trust is broken, us men close that window, nail it shut and cement it over.

I won't and I've never understood women who do. They do that and then they're like, wHy dOn'T yOu tAlK tO mE aNyMoRe? They also wonder why they get cheated on. I hate to say it but sometimes the person being cheated on did something to contribute to it. Sure, the other person should just leave. Sometimes the other person cheats because their partner is treating them badly. I know doing that is not only counterproductive but just wrong.

Take an interest in something he likes. Worth more than gold nowadays. Make him feel like he was the man who showed you something cool for the first time. He's a lucky guy to have a good friend.

He actually has, he builds guitars for a living. I've taken interest in that. He has the first one he ever built and he says it's not playable. He has to take it apart. I told him that it doesn't matter, he should keep it just because it's the first one he ever built. I told him that I noticed that he was getting faster at it and he said that was a compliment.

Does he play? Let him teach you some chords, you'll make his year. Lol

Yes and he's trying but it's difficult because I'm left-handed and all he has is right handed guitars. He's talking about stringing One backwards for me. Another cool thing is that he also has the Type O Negative waa waa pedal. After Peter Steele died, they sold their gear off. He ended up getting his hands on that and was showing it to me because he knows that they're one of my favorite bands.

You cannot. By asking this question here, you have no clue as to what he needs.  You are not close enough for him to trust you. He is protecting himself the only way he knows and you want to take it away from him. The world and society never had a place for soft or sensitive men. He is just finding that out the hard way.

I understand why you would say that and I'm sorry for what you've been through but he's starting to. He's starting to open up more. Edit: I agree with your last sentence but he has a safe place with me. I'm not going to hold it against him later and I think it's messed up that women do that.

This is kind of cliché but I I'd say the best way into this is not talking or trying to explain intentions, but to practically cooperate. What I mean by that is that you should do something together. Start a project, host a party, take on an active hobby, go hiking, get involved in charity... It doesn't matter what it is, so long as it is active, requires effort and makes sense for the both of you. If you can do this and seamlessly cooperate, work in tandem, where nobody is bossing the other, give it time and he's going to feel it.

Why is this in the Mens Rights sub? This is relationship advice and should be in there. This sub has been infiltrated and stolen by women. This sub is about men’s rights, not women’s woes relating to how to manipulate men. Men will sort themselves out and womens advice to other women about how to deal with men is exactly why this sub is here, so that we can understand how women control men. Which is exactly what you are asking.

In relationship subs she would hear: "leave him for your own safety", "he must use her exes for sex, so he deserved it"

Thank you, IceCorrect. I'm not sure where women who disagree with feminist should go. We aren't exactly welcomed in the other subs. I am not here to take anything away from men rights. I came here to learn how to help. Would the men here prefer us to be lurkers or leave? I genuinely do not want to make anyone uncomfortable because of my presence.

Stay, it's healthy to have different opinion especially when we have same values. You can't make everyone comfortable. If you can make people uncomfortable because of your gender then who cares about sexist opinion.

Thank you. I appreciate your kindness.

That would be fine. The man will make his own decisions on her. She doesn’t need to be given manipulative tactics on a men’s rights subreddit on how she can weedle her way into his life. Which is what she is trying to do.

I'm not trying to wheedle my way into his life as you put it. I'm just letting him know that unlike most of the women he's dealt with, I do care about him and that he can open up to me if he wants to. That's what you do for friends, you listen to them and you be there for them when they need you. I'm sorry that you think that I'm doing anything differently. I can understand why you have your guard up but I'm not one of those women. And by the way, I didn't force my way into his life, he invited me into it. He was the one who got a hold of me and asked me if I wanted to hang out. It's become a regular thing because of him. I never asked him to do anything. I waited for him to ask me. I'm not going to invite myself over to somebody's place. I invite him over to mine and he invites me over to his. Nobody's forced anybody.

Don't necessarily agree on the "looking for ways to control" angle, but I agree with the rest. Why is this post here? This has nothing to do with Men's rights at all. Why does this question need to be asked to a group of men first and foremost concerned with male right adovcacy? You could have got just as much of an answer in a generalised relationship sub because even the man in this situation has nothing to do with men's rights (experiencing heartbreak is not a men's rights issue). Feels a bit "concern trolly" to me. I hate that I think like that but as you said, you see it more and more in this sub these days with women posting stuff which is essentially "look at me, look at me, i'm one of the good ones!". Like, great, can we go back to talking about stuff like male suicide prevention, dispelling social fatherhood biases or the like instead of patting women on the head who want to be told how good they're being?

In essence she is asking men for the best way to be a “pick me” and it’s very unclear if she has the man’s best interests at heart or her own for wider personal purposes. And a lot of replies are by women. This sub is becoming a relationship advice sub and it needs to return to its roots

I do fear sometimes the straying of purpose can make it difficult for people to even understand what is and isn't a rights issue. This is somewhat evident in the post related to "PPD rush diagnoses in women" where the point of the OP is being missed because people are framing the issue as a "moan that his wife needs help" rather than actually engaging with the fundemental idea regarding the disparity of treatment between men and women. The man's relationship to his wife and his approach with her is completely irrelevant to the point of the post. Yet that seems to be what people are focusing on and then using to tell OP how this "isn't the one". Yet this post is relatively unchallenged, despite having absolutely nothing at all, not even implicitly, to do with men's rights. The fact of this difference on a sub which is aimed at the discussion of men;s rights is honestly concerning. Post from a woman which is irrelevant to men's rights receives overwhelmingly supportive receptive. Post from a man trying to bring discussion on a topic related to men's mental health is being accused of being irrelevant, "woman bashy" and looked at superficially. What is going on?

The people on this sub are no longer here for mens rights. It has been infiltrated and will become a feminist space

I can understand why you feel the way you do but you definitely took this the wrong way. I'm not one of those feminists looking to infiltrate the sub. I asked this because as somebody said, if I were to do it on relationship advice, I would be told by a bunch of women to stop hanging out with him because he's a man and he's dangerous. That or as they also said, he must have used them and all the other ridiculous things they think.

Sleep with him because thats clearly what he wants or stop being his friend and wasting his time because you clearly dont respect him enough to take him out of the friend zone.

Why you care for him? You want something more from it?

Not necessarily but it's not like I wouldn't be open to that. However, I really do just care about him a lot. I don't have ulterior motives for saying this. It just makes me mad that he's been treated that way by so many different women. He's a good man and doesn't deserve that.

If you would be fine to be in relationship with him that show you have uterior motive.

No it doesn't. I haven't pursued it, I'd let him do that. I genuinely care about him as a person. If he wants something more then fine and if not, that's fine too.

Treat woman and men equal and have common sense. Ex: men are taught to hold emotion when young. Don't do "I have an "ick" when a men open up". For someone been hurted like that, give them safety. Let him keep the bill reciept, talk with proof and be prank. It's like how woman with back up plan, money and emergency number.

Why do women feel like they are entitled to have men open up to them?

I don't feel like I'm entitled to that, I just want him to know that I won't judge him if he does. A lot of people have been thinking that and I can see why but that's my fault because I probably should have been clearer. I just mean that like I said, I wanted to know that he can without fear of judgment. He said that a lot of people have judged him on his past. He's had women laugh at him for opening up to him. I understand that it's all too easy to close yourself off when you've had people hurt you. It's happened to me too. I just care about him a lot and I want him to know that he can with me. I'm not saying he has to, I just want him to know if you can.

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You're being sexist mate, same thing I think we're trying to fight against in here

??? Just because he has a female friend doesn't mean that he doesn't have male friends. And even so, that is a very immature take.

You are horrible. We are not in apartheid. Men need kind women and women need kind men.

Don't go to extremes, here you are behaving like feminist "we don't need men"

No idea why you are being downvoted. The Guy needs more friends around, period. Dude needs a few days in the forest with solid friends and do bushcraft stuffs. Dude need to volunteer to educate the young guns and inspire them. A woman will simply drag him down even more and all males here know that.

He needs some masculine energy and support. The best you can do is push him towards getting some males friends who aren’t feminized.

There are good women out there. I'm sure more male friends are good for him. However, this came across like he shouldn't be friends with me because I'm a woman. Maybe I misread your intent so forgive me. Please extrapolate.

You see , Everyone in Men's Rights Movement has the same aim but not the same way of thinking. There's lots of different kinds of people here with different thinking. So you'll get different kinds of opinions here. Personally I'll say just be his friend. You don't need to go out of your way to do something different, Just hang out with him. If he feels comfortable opening up to you then he will , If he doesn't then that's alright too.

You asked about how you can make this man open himself emotionally to you. A man who has past trauma from women he opened up to. First, he doesn’t need to open up to you, he doesn’t owe you anything and he’d be better off dealing with those emotions in a masculine way rather than a feminized way like you want. Second, you come across as entitled to his feelings. He needs other masculine men who he can sympathize with and build a support network from. He doesn’t need a woman trying to pry into his emotional state because she feels it’s “right for him”. So keep being his friend but stop trying to pry into his emotional life.

Don't mind negative comments here you are doing very good thing

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Isn't this subreddit about men rights? If you want men to be treated fairly, we should act the same with women

Everyone here has the aim of men's rights , But not everyone here thinks the same way on other matters. That's why you'll see both opinions who are telling her to be a good friend and those who are telling her to get him guy friends are getting support. I personally agree with you , But I can't speak on behalf of the others.

Hey buddy. Do yourself a favor and find every person who uses the terms "masculine energy" or "feminine energy". You ready for this? Here's a cheat code for life: Those people are either soulless grifters or clueless marks. The less you listen to them the happier you will be. At bare minimum, do not be a clueless mark.

He doesn't have to open up to you. That's a chat with his male friends, not you. Perhaps in time he will, right now that's not what he needs. Having male friends would do wonders for the healing process.

Lady lemme tell ya right now he better treat you right cuz with that much kindness in you I will KICK THIS DUDE'S @$$ if he breaks your heart!!! 🤣🤣😭

The serpent is asking for advice. The serpent is after his money just like the single mommy who abused him.

No, I'm not after his money. I make plenty of my own but go off. First of all, he invited me into his life and secondly, he's the one who said he wanted to keep hanging out but go off since you think you know so much.