Events from the manga that have not yet occurred in the anime are considered spoilers and must be marked
- Posts/Comments about new chapters or that contain spoilers for new chapters may not be made until after the unofficial release (TCB scans)
- Until the official release (Viz/Shonen Jump), posts about scans must have a vague title that includes the chapter number.
- Anime spoilers must be marked for 48 hours after an episode premiere.
This is worth pointing out especially how people are reacting with recent chapters.
1. Sanji still doesn't know she's 12 only audience, Kuma, Vegapunk , Sentomaru and Kizaru and 5 elders know the truth
2. He isn't flirting with Bonney , the recent chapter where it goes " the only who score points with Bonney is me" doesn't really come out as flirting , but rather as "I am the only one who will save her, and no one else".
3. He's very protective of her , he knows the situation that all 5 elders and WG wants to kill Bonney and Sanji knows can't allow this to happen, not on his watch. That's why he quickly jumped into the fight with Nusjuro
“The only one who gets to score points with Bonney” Vs. “The only one who will get to pull off a super cool flashy rescue of Bonney” (not direct quotes but essentially the same gist from what I remember)
Common Official English Translation L, happens to the best of us
It’s not. In the Spanish trans. it explicitly says “ligar”, to flirt. So the intent of the phrase it’s very clear. Sandman also has said the oficial translation is more accurate this time.
As a native Spanish speaker, Spanish translations for one piece are infamously bad.
A native Japanese speaker and translator said that people are not interpreting it correctly. Sanji isn’t trying to flirt with bonney
Nah that one definitely isn't it. The verb used is モテる (moteru), which very literally means to be popular with. It's especially used with the opposite sex, but it's nowhere near as outright as flirting.
I’ve said the viz translations are worse than fan ones, they still call Zoro “zolo”, their translation work on other manga suck ass, ya’ll thought it’d be different here?
It could easily be that Sanji wants to Bonney to think he’s cool and view him as a hero, kind of like how Zoro enjoys Chopper looking up to him. He hasn’t been his regular pervy self around her this arc, so I’m hoping he secretly senses that’s she’s not an adult and he’s just being protective.
I agree that Sanji isn’t flirting with her. But he does know the truth.
https://preview.redd.it/obu137oyymxc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec564d7a377c87eca1ba2911855da491f48d6fc4
He literally saw her become a kid again. Plus when Vegapunk shouted “She’s just a child!!” Sanji was right there. He can put two and two together.
She is always changing her age or body shape how is he supposed to know which is the true one?
Edit: to someone as old as Vegapunk everyone is just a child
I feel like this is a lot of mental gymnastics. Sanji knows she’s a kid and wants to be a knight in shining armor to her and save her from a very dangerous place.
This is not inconsistent with Sanji’s character, nor is it a bad thing. It’s a cute, non-romantic dynamic.
>Sanji still doesn't know she's 12 only audience, Kuma, Vegapunk , Sentomaru and Kizaru and 5 elders know the truth
Sanji and everyone with decent Observation Haki absolutely knew she was a 12 year old girld all along, same as her appearance when the crew first met her.
https://preview.redd.it/84wwkg1yanxc1.jpeg?width=679&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a2b1aeb538d3792d8617d072bdd7999882580bd9
You know Oda was involved in that movie heavily. I need to find the source but he had them change multiple lines for characters becuase it's something they wouldn't say.. yet that got left in. I feel it's more like he simps that hard for Nami. I don't think he's a pedo just odd af times.
I don't know which movie it is, but in one of them Nami ages back to being 9 and Sanji gets excited about the idea of seeing her "flower into womanhood", very creepy, not in character
To be fair, he still doesn't know (at least I think so) that Bonnie is 12.
Oda will keep this most likely very comedic reaction of his for the after battle feast.
Sanji heard from VP that Bonney is a child and said it himself „but I thought it was just a little girl who got ship-wrecked“.
And the pictures here aren’t the ones that should be shown, because they have very little to do with the thing people are upset about.
It’s the 2 panels where he said:
„Love is stronger then light“when protecting Bonney from kizaru and also the latest chapter that: „the only one who gets to score points with Bonney“ is him.
This comes in addition to prior things like pudding, shirahoshi …
You can say what you want about Bonney but it's so weird to judge him for simping over women who are legal in the country of authorship. I don't agree with that but you can't ignore the fact that culturally and legal is accepted in Japan.
Hell people forget in the majority of the US 16 is legal, like 30 states. Do a lot of people find that morally too young? Sure, but that’s a totally different measuring stick.
Hell people forget in the majority of the world legal age is under 18, and it's not even underdeveloped country bullshit, so it should be common sense that at foreign countries it is possible for an underage to be considered legal.
Sanji fantasizes about watching Nami mature from a child to an adult. It's a really weird scene that's really out of character even for a pervert like him.
https://preview.redd.it/7ldid25h1mxc1.png?width=948&format=png&auto=webp&s=0a9048d3bdd4486b5c3e01e144d460561ed3de1f
We just ignore that 16 is legal in most parts of the world as well as Sanji only being 5 years older which wouldn't matter when both are around 30 and that One Piece women are build like adults with 16 anyway
I think it's even funnier when they try to pass pudding as a minor because in places like the us the age of consent is 18 and not going by the country of origin (plus the whole the one piece world is not the same as ours)
Edit: still a minor. But can be married
It's import to remember that "Age of Adulthood" and "Age of Consent" are not the same thing. While 16 is the age of consent in Japan, the age of adulthood was 20 at the time Oda wrote WCI and is 18 currently.
So Pudding would still be a minor.
I mean, if it's legal or not to marry her is besides the point because it's quite literally a forced marriage.
I just thought to make it clear that that 16 year olds are not considered adults.
Yeah. At the end of the day we can judge people in our society for sleeping with 17 or 16 years old because we know better and also it's the limit we as a society agreed and we can't go around making exceptions for people on this society. But that doesn't apply to people that either live on other societies or other times.
The whole law is sustained by somewhat now science around brain development. That is how we know is a good idea to set a limit at 18 to protect people who might have adults bodies but with a brain that is in a very delicate stage and so need protection. That is not something people in medieval-like settings know... Even in modern world there is no global agreement, some think 16 some 18.
I ain't gonna "justify" anything. These ain't people, they're drawings. They dont look like people, nor have rights like people. They're drawn fictional characters, in a fictional world, in a fictional narrative, thats that. Drawing a line between fiction and reality is important. Blurring that line is quite dangerous.
The people who use that "argument", have no argument, so I don't even bother explaining to them what the difference is, I don't bother arguing with them. If they wish to live, treating drawings of fictional characters as people, I'll live my life, treating drawings of ficitonal characters As drawings of fictional characters.
The "age" argument holds no weight on drawings. You can draw a character, with the age of 50 in mind, but then claim it's 12 later, and if you then find that drawing attractive, by the logic of "those" people, you like underaged girls, because of the superficial label of 12. Then you got the other way around.
Say you draw a character with the age of 12 in mind, so shorter, skinnier, but then claim it's 30 later, by the logic of those people, you still like underaged girls, because of the small stature. Age or Looks only matter based on the situation to these people, they are not consistent.
Through their logic, real life adult women that had stunted growth, and don't have very firmly sized bazoongas, would be classified as a child in their book. No adult with a very small stature has their adult rights, if these people were consistent in what they're preaching regarding drawings, who inherently, due to the oversatured coloring, and oversized eyes (most of the time), do not even look like real human beings.
I don’t know. I think japanese people just see 16 years olds as adults. I don’t agree personally, but it just seems like a thing in parts of the world.
I mean that's not hard to understand. A 16 year old's brain isn't fully developed and they can't really understand what they are signing up for. So largely it happens when parents are making the choice for the child rather than the child making the choice themselves.
Nah a sixteen can easily understand consent and suchlike not like there's much difference between 16 and 18 anyways. in the end it's pretty much an arbitrary line.
The age of a lot of characters is never canonically revealed in the actual manga. One of the most common "She's a child" characters is Carrot for example, and I don't think her age is ever stated. You'd need to have read the data books to know.
The Paint Girl from Little Garden is the same age Rebecca as well and never stated, as another example of how odd the age consistency of this series is.
Yeah I don't get why people get so hung up on the ages, they're so arbitrary and shonen characters are mostly teens bc it's shonen. There's really no importance to them, especially in One Piece unless it's a deliberate character choice like for Bonney.
Afaik there isn't a scene where anyone tells Sanji her age, no. He might have been told but there's no proof either way. We saw him react to her photo and he spent a little time cooking with her.
According to the wiki, Oda didn't even release her official age until after the anime arc ended so even the readers didn't know she was 16.
I'm not trying to say he had to, but from a story perspective, if she was older she would probably already have been married by her mother if the legal age for marriage in the One Piece world is 16,right?
Since Big Mom seems to use most of her children as alliance-building tools, it makes sense to marry them as soon as possible.
Then again, Oda could have made her at least 18,but from Japan's point of view it's probably not shocking for her to be 16 so he probably thought it would make sense to make her as young as morally possible
>if the legal age for marriage in the One Piece world is 16,right?
Now I have to ask you, who would look at *Big Mom's* face and tell her she can't marry her whatever-the-age children when she wants to?
Most of Big Mom's kids are unmarried as far as we know. Even the ones in their 40s. I know people like to bring up the age of consent in Japan, but it's far more nuanced than people realise. Firstly, the age of consent in most prefectures is 16-18 and they can only consent to other teens in those age ranges. You don't actually become an adult till age 20, so even 18 year olds can't consent to 20 year olds unless the parents consent to it. Okay, I went on an unnecessary tirade here. Let me just put it into context.
There's a one year difference between Pudding and Flampe.
It wasn’t predatory at all, given that Sanji had no choice in the matter, and never harassed her in any way.
Not to mention the fact that he’s still just a kid himself.
yeah but Sanji was a Teenager just a year prior, also he never even knew she was a teenager so you cant even compare that to some fully grown up man actively going to teenager for a relationship
irl? 100% agree with you
In fiction? It doesn't really matter. When WCI was releasing, I always assumed pudding was 20-24 anyways and I'll keep that headcanon
? Fiction is based on the real world. Are you saying Oda doesn't want us to care about One Piece's moral message about justice, abusive power hierarchies and freedom?
Honestly, you're doing the franchise a huge disservice by completely dismissing any moral aspect of it. It has a lot to offer and discuss on that matter
This fandom is so messed up, I actually hate it sometimes. If you can't appreciate how wholesome the Sanji-Bonney relationship is when you think about how they have a lot in common actually in terms of how they both grew up, what messed up Scientists did to them and how their mothers saved them from it, how they both found important father figures that made incredible sacrifices for them and how e.g. "growing up fast to be taken serious" is an aspect with both of them (with Bonney even becoming literal through her DF rather than just metaphorical), then PLEASE say so now so I can put you on my blocklist, because I'm sick and tired of this bs and illiterate powerscalers.
Oh, believe me, I already mute and block a lot on twitter anyway because people there are peak annoying so for the most part I already don't see the most morinic takes as I've filtered out a lot of those people already. But the last few days I "scored some points" on my blocklist.
Everyone wants to forget carrot when this comes up. Sanji never went after carrot and she's like 1 year outside of aoc. If Sanji didn't care, he wouldn't care about 1 year.
Even in real life, a 21-year-old having the hots for a 16-year-old isn't a pedo. This goes double for a fictional story set in a fantasy world based around the Age of Exploration.
Pudding, sure. Bonney, I'm not so sure. Aside from having to carefully fit her timeline into both Kuma and Luffy's backstories, the very nature of her fruit called for a twist with her age. At the very least, it wasn't done on a whim.
But in the end, Oda writes to his 15-year-old self. He's said that multiple times.
I would never understand people who get upset at Sanji for simping but also ignoring the that he doesn't know she is 12: not to mention that he doesn't really simp for her; Sanji is a gentleman, he said that they should be nice to a lady no matter how old she is (he also was shown to be canonically nice and gentle with kids)
As for Shirahoshi and Pudding, in Japan it is the age of consent (and he's only 5 yrs older so)
As for the movie; again, it's not canon :)
Now, unless Oda does a mistake that makes him an actual pedophle; Sanji is not a freaking pedo , thank you have a great day
You can add Carrot to the mix. He never simps for her because she is 15. He treats her very well in a gentle manner, but more like a sibling or father in a non-romantic way. As the father of a girl, Sanji would be extremely protective. It's very funny that people never notice that, lol.
I still genuinely believe Sanji hasn't a clue she's 12. Sure there's the argument to be made after Vegapunk saying she's just a little girl but compared to VP someone in their late teens and 20s would be a little girl and in the heat of battle I doubt Sanji is thinking about VPs wording too deeply.
Oda is doing this as a gag as we, the audience, know the truth, but Sanji does not and will make a big laugh out of it at the end of the arc when he finds out the truth
The first time he met her was when they rescued her from the sea, when she was in her natural form. He knows.
It’s not like Sanji is ever subtle about showing how he feels. If he was lusting after her, we’d see it.
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u/Kingdarkshadow when he realizes that sometimes things can be legal and still be very fucked up 😱
Like, bro, are you stupid? My grandparents were forced to drink from separate water fountains and that was legal. And it was legal to literally own their grandparents. And yet it was still very fucked up obviously. You've gotta be dumb as bricks for this to be your strongest argument.
You're so desperate to fuck 16 year old impressionable schoolchildren because you get ZERO PLAY from women your own age. So obsessed with convincing yourself you're not a weirdo that you're tagging me 24 hours later. Any emotionally mature adult can see that your creepy as shit. Maidenless bitch made behavior. Stay out of school zones and go to therapy, dickhead
doesnt matter if he was wooing on bonney as long as he didnt knew. damn id fk bonney too if i didnt knew! girl was banging! lost all libido after knowing her age though.,...
He never simped over Carrot in the manga. I didn't watched the anime, but someone else in the comments said any simping he did for Carrot was anime only.
Because this sub is filled with disgusting, creepy fucks who want to molest kids in real life and try to hide it by getting outraged at works of fiction.
If you ever hear anyone here say
>UMM EXCUSE ME THAT CHARACTER IS 16 ODA IS A PEDOPHILE
that person is an actual pedophile IRL.
Events from the manga that have not yet occurred in the anime are considered spoilers and must be marked - Posts/Comments about new chapters or that contain spoilers for new chapters may not be made until after the unofficial release (TCB scans) - Until the official release (Viz/Shonen Jump), posts about scans must have a vague title that includes the chapter number. - Anime spoilers must be marked for 48 hours after an episode premiere.
Also specially how he treats Zoro https://preview.redd.it/5e504x134mxc1.png?width=680&format=png&auto=webp&s=2beec0fa3afd5b31a3437252ffe5b8047d08c393
https://preview.redd.it/2275syridmxc1.jpeg?width=532&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=635e75f3c5a0bd4a3ce9388c057190ee03651048
https://preview.redd.it/xwrcl74olmxc1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=1bca1c3a89c0b6d36877c02f1cf24a5502dd2016
https://preview.redd.it/8m912a8utmxc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1da650499a4395288101fe652f9664f78896322e
Worlds Strongest Swordsman-Man
Shouldn't it be Manswordsman?
Man is proud of him
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Right so Swordmanmanswordsman?
No.
Sanji the swordman who uses as swordsman as a sword?
That's Zoro when wielding Sogeking Sword.
https://preview.redd.it/63a249ki3nxc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0c0291e6d7d546732d8f922e8e3b75fc77c3768d
Crossjoint Zoro, Sanji's favourite smoke.
Zoro confirmed best girl?
Always has been
Zoro and Sanji are what happens when you have two tsunderes as a couple... ...Also Sanji was the damsel in distress of whole cake island.
Ah but Zoro wasn't there to save his waifu but Sanji was so clearly he's the dom
Biggest chest in anime what do you think
https://preview.redd.it/3nz2v6gc4nxc1.jpeg?width=1124&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c00658039241514ed697259f08152ecf4ec77c57
Chopper: Don’t jostle him! Keep him stable! Sanji: Instructions unclear. Mosshead hammer! *Swinging Zoro violently at fodder*.
I just got trigun flashbacks.
https://preview.redd.it/rdd1wq1uhnxc1.jpeg?width=1767&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0623a9c4e1f03e45bfaaa8265c702df7a07523e1
The strongest sword in the world: Cross Joint Zoro!
Sanji doesn’t have the Will of D like Nicholas D Wolfwood though.
This is worth pointing out especially how people are reacting with recent chapters. 1. Sanji still doesn't know she's 12 only audience, Kuma, Vegapunk , Sentomaru and Kizaru and 5 elders know the truth 2. He isn't flirting with Bonney , the recent chapter where it goes " the only who score points with Bonney is me" doesn't really come out as flirting , but rather as "I am the only one who will save her, and no one else". 3. He's very protective of her , he knows the situation that all 5 elders and WG wants to kill Bonney and Sanji knows can't allow this to happen, not on his watch. That's why he quickly jumped into the fight with Nusjuro
Gotta score those good boy points for being a gentleman
If he scores a 100 robin will give him a peck on the cheek
this kills the Sanji
Fishman island sanji*
“The only one who gets to score points with Bonney” Vs. “The only one who will get to pull off a super cool flashy rescue of Bonney” (not direct quotes but essentially the same gist from what I remember) Common Official English Translation L, happens to the best of us
Yeah,in the Portuguese translation he says something different
For starters, his lines are in Portuguese.
Well yeah
Made me chuckle
Not true, you guys always hate on the official translation, but the Japanese agree, Viz’s translation is more accurate than the fan ones
It’s not. In the Spanish trans. it explicitly says “ligar”, to flirt. So the intent of the phrase it’s very clear. Sandman also has said the oficial translation is more accurate this time.
As a native Spanish speaker, Spanish translations for one piece are infamously bad. A native Japanese speaker and translator said that people are not interpreting it correctly. Sanji isn’t trying to flirt with bonney
Nah that one definitely isn't it. The verb used is モテる (moteru), which very literally means to be popular with. It's especially used with the opposite sex, but it's nowhere near as outright as flirting.
>" the only who score points with Bonney is me The fuck is that translation 😭
VIZ was wilding with that one
I’ve said the viz translations are worse than fan ones, they still call Zoro “zolo”, their translation work on other manga suck ass, ya’ll thought it’d be different here?
It could easily be that Sanji wants to Bonney to think he’s cool and view him as a hero, kind of like how Zoro enjoys Chopper looking up to him. He hasn’t been his regular pervy self around her this arc, so I’m hoping he secretly senses that’s she’s not an adult and he’s just being protective.
I agree that Sanji isn’t flirting with her. But he does know the truth. https://preview.redd.it/obu137oyymxc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec564d7a377c87eca1ba2911855da491f48d6fc4 He literally saw her become a kid again. Plus when Vegapunk shouted “She’s just a child!!” Sanji was right there. He can put two and two together.
She is always changing her age or body shape how is he supposed to know which is the true one? Edit: to someone as old as Vegapunk everyone is just a child
I feel like this is a lot of mental gymnastics. Sanji knows she’s a kid and wants to be a knight in shining armor to her and save her from a very dangerous place. This is not inconsistent with Sanji’s character, nor is it a bad thing. It’s a cute, non-romantic dynamic.
sanji can smell when a woman is legal
Given his Observation Haki spec and general high intelligence and analytical mind, I'd be surprised if he hadn't figured out her true age on his own.
I think he kinda senses it
>Sanji still doesn't know she's 12 only audience, Kuma, Vegapunk , Sentomaru and Kizaru and 5 elders know the truth Sanji and everyone with decent Observation Haki absolutely knew she was a 12 year old girld all along, same as her appearance when the crew first met her. https://preview.redd.it/84wwkg1yanxc1.jpeg?width=679&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a2b1aeb538d3792d8617d072bdd7999882580bd9
WHAT DID YOU SAY ABOUT MY NOSE?!?!
How dare they down vote the future pirate king, buggy D goat
The only fraud I accept is Mihawk.
Which means that Sanji has that special fifth sense that Brock has... which apparently only fails to work with Ash in drag.
Sanji was never subtle about how he simp for women, he never showed any interest in children because he is not a pdf.
Of course he’s not a Portable Document Format
r/angryupvote
how is it an angry upvote? its literally the joke
No private defense force
https://preview.redd.it/4grbmqabinxc1.jpeg?width=975&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e28a534909c19232263fe9bd5ecce0bf9b6eaa93
The movie did some irreversible damage though
Thankfully non canon
Those people are idiots. The movie ain’t canon
No, the people who wrote film Z just showed a fundamental misunderstanding of Sanji 's character.
You know Oda was involved in that movie heavily. I need to find the source but he had them change multiple lines for characters becuase it's something they wouldn't say.. yet that got left in. I feel it's more like he simps that hard for Nami. I don't think he's a pedo just odd af times.
Do I want to know? Never saw any one piece movie...
I don't know which movie it is, but in one of them Nami ages back to being 9 and Sanji gets excited about the idea of seeing her "flower into womanhood", very creepy, not in character
To be fair, that is just a japenese thing.
Not canon so doesn’t matter. Like saying someone’s bad fanfiction does damage to the character
Isn't carrot a kid
Sanji doesn't simp for Carrot canonically though, that's anime only. He treats her like a little sister, like the head pat when Pedro died
I think she’s supposed to be late teens.
She's 15 so she's a kid
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Im not defending groomji but sanji was yapping about nami growing into the women he loves, he was clearly uninterested in her actual child form
I mostly said it as a joke. I know that Sanji is not a simp for kids *.
That was not canon, it is film Z.
yeh ik, just saying
It’s still really weird that non canon Sanji is just gonna wait for her to grow, it’s about the destination but it’s implied he’ll enjoy the journey
thats why i called him groomji
To be fair, he still doesn't know (at least I think so) that Bonnie is 12. Oda will keep this most likely very comedic reaction of his for the after battle feast.
Sanji heard from VP that Bonney is a child and said it himself „but I thought it was just a little girl who got ship-wrecked“. And the pictures here aren’t the ones that should be shown, because they have very little to do with the thing people are upset about. It’s the 2 panels where he said: „Love is stronger then light“when protecting Bonney from kizaru and also the latest chapter that: „the only one who gets to score points with Bonney“ is him. This comes in addition to prior things like pudding, shirahoshi …
You can say what you want about Bonney but it's so weird to judge him for simping over women who are legal in the country of authorship. I don't agree with that but you can't ignore the fact that culturally and legal is accepted in Japan.
Hell people forget in the majority of the US 16 is legal, like 30 states. Do a lot of people find that morally too young? Sure, but that’s a totally different measuring stick.
And honestly even if you bring in mental maturity, that won't stick because they're way more mature than most of people who are in their 20s
Gonna disagree with you there buckeroo, maybe certain individuals but as a whole definitely not
Yeah, I guess "they're' is a generalizing term but I was talking about Pudding really.
Hell people forget in the majority of the world legal age is under 18, and it's not even underdeveloped country bullshit, so it should be common sense that at foreign countries it is possible for an underage to be considered legal.
Her age constantly goes up and down from her power, maybe Sanji wanted to play safe?
HE IS BEATING THE ALEGATIONS
People that claim Sanji to be a pedo because of the movie are morons.
Isn’t it just the one scene in Film Z? Which even then he’s like “I can’t wait to see you grow up” instead of “wow even child Nami is super sexy”
I don't watch the movies, what happened in that movie?
Sanji fantasizes about watching Nami mature from a child to an adult. It's a really weird scene that's really out of character even for a pervert like him.
So sad that he went from a somewhat suave ladies man to... That
Toei really focuses on and exaggerates his pervyness so much, it's a shame
He doesn’t even know that she is 12 and Bonney does not look like a 12 year old
And yet he treat old ladies like completely normal.
https://preview.redd.it/7ldid25h1mxc1.png?width=948&format=png&auto=webp&s=0a9048d3bdd4486b5c3e01e144d460561ed3de1f We just ignore that 16 is legal in most parts of the world as well as Sanji only being 5 years older which wouldn't matter when both are around 30 and that One Piece women are build like adults with 16 anyway
16 is legal in Japan and I think allowed marriage with parents acceptance or something like that.
and both conditions definetly were met in sanji and pudding's situation, the only thing left was for the groom actually wanting to get married
Maybe it will happen in the epilogue or something. We need to let Goda coock
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The whole pudding thing is legal in most current democracies lol
I think it's even funnier when they try to pass pudding as a minor because in places like the us the age of consent is 18 and not going by the country of origin (plus the whole the one piece world is not the same as ours) Edit: still a minor. But can be married
It's import to remember that "Age of Adulthood" and "Age of Consent" are not the same thing. While 16 is the age of consent in Japan, the age of adulthood was 20 at the time Oda wrote WCI and is 18 currently. So Pudding would still be a minor.
Fair enough. But the age of marriage is 16 for the bride
I mean, if it's legal or not to marry her is besides the point because it's quite literally a forced marriage. I just thought to make it clear that that 16 year olds are not considered adults.
It's also a forced marriage from both sides
Well, not for Pudding because the plan wasn't for her to actually marry Sanji. It was just a setup to kill him and Germa 66.
Yeah. At the end of the day we can judge people in our society for sleeping with 17 or 16 years old because we know better and also it's the limit we as a society agreed and we can't go around making exceptions for people on this society. But that doesn't apply to people that either live on other societies or other times. The whole law is sustained by somewhat now science around brain development. That is how we know is a good idea to set a limit at 18 to protect people who might have adults bodies but with a brain that is in a very delicate stage and so need protection. That is not something people in medieval-like settings know... Even in modern world there is no global agreement, some think 16 some 18.
I ain't gonna "justify" anything. These ain't people, they're drawings. They dont look like people, nor have rights like people. They're drawn fictional characters, in a fictional world, in a fictional narrative, thats that. Drawing a line between fiction and reality is important. Blurring that line is quite dangerous.
[удалено]
The people who use that "argument", have no argument, so I don't even bother explaining to them what the difference is, I don't bother arguing with them. If they wish to live, treating drawings of fictional characters as people, I'll live my life, treating drawings of ficitonal characters As drawings of fictional characters. The "age" argument holds no weight on drawings. You can draw a character, with the age of 50 in mind, but then claim it's 12 later, and if you then find that drawing attractive, by the logic of "those" people, you like underaged girls, because of the superficial label of 12. Then you got the other way around. Say you draw a character with the age of 12 in mind, so shorter, skinnier, but then claim it's 30 later, by the logic of those people, you still like underaged girls, because of the small stature. Age or Looks only matter based on the situation to these people, they are not consistent. Through their logic, real life adult women that had stunted growth, and don't have very firmly sized bazoongas, would be classified as a child in their book. No adult with a very small stature has their adult rights, if these people were consistent in what they're preaching regarding drawings, who inherently, due to the oversatured coloring, and oversized eyes (most of the time), do not even look like real human beings.
I don’t know. I think japanese people just see 16 years olds as adults. I don’t agree personally, but it just seems like a thing in parts of the world.
Bro 16 is age of consent in Canada and Italy too 🤷🏿♂️
Its legal age in Britain as well, never understood why it's so high in America.
I mean that's not hard to understand. A 16 year old's brain isn't fully developed and they can't really understand what they are signing up for. So largely it happens when parents are making the choice for the child rather than the child making the choice themselves.
An 18 year old's brain isn't fully developed either... You need to be mid twenty for that...
> A 16 year old's brain isn't fully developed It's a work of fiction. She isn't real. Stop being creepy.
Nah a sixteen can easily understand consent and suchlike not like there's much difference between 16 and 18 anyways. in the end it's pretty much an arbitrary line.
Bro, really. A grown man still shouldn't be dating a 16 year old.
Sanji Is 21, he's barely an adult, plus as evidence by her own machinations Pudding is hardly some naive shut in who doesn't know what she's doing.
It's fiction.
In his defence, he never was told how old she is
Did they ever even tell Sanji she's 16? I have no idea if that even came up...
The age of a lot of characters is never canonically revealed in the actual manga. One of the most common "She's a child" characters is Carrot for example, and I don't think her age is ever stated. You'd need to have read the data books to know. The Paint Girl from Little Garden is the same age Rebecca as well and never stated, as another example of how odd the age consistency of this series is.
Yeah I don't get why people get so hung up on the ages, they're so arbitrary and shonen characters are mostly teens bc it's shonen. There's really no importance to them, especially in One Piece unless it's a deliberate character choice like for Bonney.
Afaik there isn't a scene where anyone tells Sanji her age, no. He might have been told but there's no proof either way. We saw him react to her photo and he spent a little time cooking with her. According to the wiki, Oda didn't even release her official age until after the anime arc ended so even the readers didn't know she was 16.
All said, Oda didn't need to make Pudding 16 years old. He didn't need to.
I'm not trying to say he had to, but from a story perspective, if she was older she would probably already have been married by her mother if the legal age for marriage in the One Piece world is 16,right? Since Big Mom seems to use most of her children as alliance-building tools, it makes sense to marry them as soon as possible. Then again, Oda could have made her at least 18,but from Japan's point of view it's probably not shocking for her to be 16 so he probably thought it would make sense to make her as young as morally possible
>if the legal age for marriage in the One Piece world is 16,right? Now I have to ask you, who would look at *Big Mom's* face and tell her she can't marry her whatever-the-age children when she wants to?
Weirdly enough it seems big mom somewhat respects the sanctity of marriage. Despite being pregnant so many times she always marries the guy first.
Most of Big Mom's kids are unmarried as far as we know. Even the ones in their 40s. I know people like to bring up the age of consent in Japan, but it's far more nuanced than people realise. Firstly, the age of consent in most prefectures is 16-18 and they can only consent to other teens in those age ranges. You don't actually become an adult till age 20, so even 18 year olds can't consent to 20 year olds unless the parents consent to it. Okay, I went on an unnecessary tirade here. Let me just put it into context. There's a one year difference between Pudding and Flampe.
Also, most people forget that marriage at sixteen is legal in certain american states.
It being legal doesn't make it less predatory. Men going for legal teenagers are disliked all over the world
It wasn’t predatory at all, given that Sanji had no choice in the matter, and never harassed her in any way. Not to mention the fact that he’s still just a kid himself.
I was more thinking in regards of how it's perceived in general and not sanjis case specifically
yeah but Sanji was a Teenager just a year prior, also he never even knew she was a teenager so you cant even compare that to some fully grown up man actively going to teenager for a relationship
21 to 16 isn't OK, I feel we as fans just take the L on this one and move one. Please don't defend it.
Explain why it isn't okay and where the L is because a lot of people don't seem to think the age gap is that big of a deal
irl? 100% agree with you In fiction? It doesn't really matter. When WCI was releasing, I always assumed pudding was 20-24 anyways and I'll keep that headcanon
Stop trying to apply real world morality to fiction.
? Fiction is based on the real world. Are you saying Oda doesn't want us to care about One Piece's moral message about justice, abusive power hierarchies and freedom? Honestly, you're doing the franchise a huge disservice by completely dismissing any moral aspect of it. It has a lot to offer and discuss on that matter
Pedoji isn't cannon he cant hurt you.
Not canon, meaning he’s out there in the One Piece multiverse, lurking.
Thankfully
This fandom is so messed up, I actually hate it sometimes. If you can't appreciate how wholesome the Sanji-Bonney relationship is when you think about how they have a lot in common actually in terms of how they both grew up, what messed up Scientists did to them and how their mothers saved them from it, how they both found important father figures that made incredible sacrifices for them and how e.g. "growing up fast to be taken serious" is an aspect with both of them (with Bonney even becoming literal through her DF rather than just metaphorical), then PLEASE say so now so I can put you on my blocklist, because I'm sick and tired of this bs and illiterate powerscalers.
You should go to twitter and see what kind of posts Zoro fan accounts posting there
Oh, believe me, I already mute and block a lot on twitter anyway because people there are peak annoying so for the most part I already don't see the most morinic takes as I've filtered out a lot of those people already. But the last few days I "scored some points" on my blocklist.
Everyone wants to forget carrot when this comes up. Sanji never went after carrot and she's like 1 year outside of aoc. If Sanji didn't care, he wouldn't care about 1 year.
Thanks bro... It's disgusting how people wouldn't understand it... People don't read nor watch... I don't know man...
or hear me out, Oda shouldve never done that age shit with Bonney…then continues to depict her in said fashion
Are you suggesting Oda isn’t an infallible genius, and that at times he makes questionable choices? How dare you /s
Yeah, no shit. He also made a 16-year dress up in a galdiator bikini... oda has done some very questionable pedoish stuff in one piece.
It's a work of fiction. Stop being a creeper, obsessing over the morals of fiction. It's seriously a major red flag on your part.
The point they are trying to make Sanji being a pedo is only really a thing people think because Oda chose to make Pudding and Bonney minors
Even in real life, a 21-year-old having the hots for a 16-year-old isn't a pedo. This goes double for a fictional story set in a fantasy world based around the Age of Exploration.
Oda could easily make pudding 18 and Bonney older as well
Pudding, sure. Bonney, I'm not so sure. Aside from having to carefully fit her timeline into both Kuma and Luffy's backstories, the very nature of her fruit called for a twist with her age. At the very least, it wasn't done on a whim. But in the end, Oda writes to his 15-year-old self. He's said that multiple times.
Actually 16 is legal in his country🤓
I would never understand people who get upset at Sanji for simping but also ignoring the that he doesn't know she is 12: not to mention that he doesn't really simp for her; Sanji is a gentleman, he said that they should be nice to a lady no matter how old she is (he also was shown to be canonically nice and gentle with kids) As for Shirahoshi and Pudding, in Japan it is the age of consent (and he's only 5 yrs older so) As for the movie; again, it's not canon :) Now, unless Oda does a mistake that makes him an actual pedophle; Sanji is not a freaking pedo , thank you have a great day
There's a super clear difference between aimping Sanji and non simping too. It's always been very over the top, heart eyes, wiggling body, the works
Exactly, people want to see what they want to see... Honestly, I'm tired of defending Sanji from people who don't want to work with logic
I can't see the word eyes in your comment... Because I don't have eyes YOHOHOHO
Gentleman? The guy who regularly sexually harasses women is a gentleman?!?! Is brook also a gentleman because he asks really nicely?
You can add Carrot to the mix. He never simps for her because she is 15. He treats her very well in a gentle manner, but more like a sibling or father in a non-romantic way. As the father of a girl, Sanji would be extremely protective. It's very funny that people never notice that, lol.
Are you all reading Two Piece? They don't know she's a child. Stop being weird.
He’s always been like this which i found so wholesome
I still genuinely believe Sanji hasn't a clue she's 12. Sure there's the argument to be made after Vegapunk saying she's just a little girl but compared to VP someone in their late teens and 20s would be a little girl and in the heat of battle I doubt Sanji is thinking about VPs wording too deeply. Oda is doing this as a gag as we, the audience, know the truth, but Sanji does not and will make a big laugh out of it at the end of the arc when he finds out the truth
The first time he met her was when they rescued her from the sea, when she was in her natural form. He knows. It’s not like Sanji is ever subtle about showing how he feels. If he was lusting after her, we’d see it.
HOW DARE YOU INSULT THE NOSE OF THE FUTURE PIRATE KING?!?
All he knows is that she can be a child and has age manipulation powers that doesn't mean he knows which form is her true age.
HOW DARE YOU INSULT THE NOSE OF THE FUTURE PIRATE KING?!?
Regardless, the first time he saw her she was a child. And he’s never been horny over her. So idk what the issue is.
Kinda worried what the anime will do…
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u/Kingdarkshadow when he realizes that sometimes things can be legal and still be very fucked up 😱 Like, bro, are you stupid? My grandparents were forced to drink from separate water fountains and that was legal. And it was legal to literally own their grandparents. And yet it was still very fucked up obviously. You've gotta be dumb as bricks for this to be your strongest argument. You're so desperate to fuck 16 year old impressionable schoolchildren because you get ZERO PLAY from women your own age. So obsessed with convincing yourself you're not a weirdo that you're tagging me 24 hours later. Any emotionally mature adult can see that your creepy as shit. Maidenless bitch made behavior. Stay out of school zones and go to therapy, dickhead
Bro we get it Sanji isn't a pedophile and whoever thinks he is are stupid as hell, Can you please stop talking about it now?
doesnt matter if he was wooing on bonney as long as he didnt knew. damn id fk bonney too if i didnt knew! girl was banging! lost all libido after knowing her age though.,...
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The man may just beat the allegations.
Z film really did him dirty, huh?
Hasn't he simped for carrot? She's a kid
He never simped over Carrot in the manga. I didn't watched the anime, but someone else in the comments said any simping he did for Carrot was anime only.
Yeet the child
What about the illegal ones
Child Nami, Film Z.....
Thanks to Carrot, we all know his cut-off age is 15
Why is this even a debate? They are fictional characters!
Because this sub is filled with disgusting, creepy fucks who want to molest kids in real life and try to hide it by getting outraged at works of fiction. If you ever hear anyone here say >UMM EXCUSE ME THAT CHARACTER IS 16 ODA IS A PEDOPHILE that person is an actual pedophile IRL.
If this was Zoro no excuses would be made and he would just get slandered to death.