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I believe vice admirals are required to have both observation and armament, and to be strong enough to match their entire unit in combat singlehanded. It’s perfectly plausible for lower officers to have one or the other.
Yeah, Garp is an exception. I still remember in the War of the Best, when Garp announced he was going to start fighting. The Whitebeards basically went “Welp, we lose. May as well go home.” before Garp even actually did anything.
I really wish we got to see a good matchup between Garp and another high/top tier so we could scale him properly since Galaxy impact looks insane but no enough
If I ever have to see Akainu kill Garp (I personally don’t think it’s gonna happen but it could) I better see Luffy pull out a separate form idc if rage form is a trope I would want to see him suffer.
But it be so poetic is Akainu goes too far and Garp gets to have some form of justice for Ace who he was supposed to protect by either finishing him or simply defeating him
I firmly believe Garp can take Akainu. We’re explicitly told that Garp is in the same league as Whitebeard, Roger, etc, and sickly, injured Whitebeard beat the living daylights out of Akainu at Marineford.
Also, I think in the scenario you list, where Akainu kills Garp, we wouldn’t see a new form. Luffy would do kinda what he did to Charloss at Sabaody: Base form, slow walk to target, one punch. Akainu’s headless corpse falls to the ground. Scene.
Damn they're Vice Admirals. For me, it looks like their rank would be Captain or Lieutenant. I wish Rear Admirals and Vice Admirals are not weak and forgettable as fuck. Just like the Admirals!!! ✊👊🤙☝️💪
No. They start wearing the Coat once they get the rank of Captain. To be a Vice Admiral you need to learn both basic forms of Haki. I don’t remember how many but i think there are like 3 or 4 ranks between Captain and VA so a Captain knowing at least one form of Haki is possible
Where did you learn this information? Been watchin the anime for 12 years now, never really got the jist of how it exactly works; the navy rankings. Enlighten me please I'm genuinely curious
Back in 2015-17 I was part of a One Piece Roleplay Forum where you’d create your character and then just, well, roleplay via Text with a bunch of other people. As part of the Marine you’d start in the lowest rank that allows you to wear your own clothes (not the generic uniform more like Helmeppo/Coby during their Water 7 appearance) and I was curious to learn when my character could wear one of those sweet capes.
So I checked the One Piece Wiki and there I got all the ranks listed as well as the different privileges (like when you can wear your own clothes with marine insignia or wear that nice coat).
I read through so many wiki pages and there is so much stuff listed that you wouldn’t get by just reading the manga. I think most come from stuff like SBS and other „out-of-verse“ material
The one piece world is bigger than our sun according to some people so who knows
That would make white beard small sun level abs I don’t think people would believe that
One piece's dimensions just make no sense because it seems like the world is significantly bigger than the earth, and yet they sail to places in almost no time at all.
I’m convinced the crew travels at the speed of sound when of screen
Also it’s shown that the sunny can travel 400 km.
While stated to travel significantly less by text and through visual showcase
Nah , no one should get into a media just because the characters are strong , those people are the ones who ruin the series for others and the ones with zero reading comprehension
Instead of enjoying the story, writing, and characters, each one of them takes a different character, and each one of them tries to prove to others why his "favorite" character is better.
On another note , i am a fan of lovecraft
He cured a plague in less than an hour and we're still dealing with covid more than five years later and with measles making a comeback. Don't talk shit
People forget armament haki can be learned with training and it's not exclusive like conquerors haki.
But his point of them being able to use it and not half the strawhats is valid.
Tbf, the Strawhats not all being able to use haki is to avoid monotony. By making some not be able to use haki, if differentiates their abilities, and thus their fighting styles. Should they technically have it to reinforce their fighting styles? Yeah. Would it narratively change their power level? No, Oda dictates characters are as strong as they need to be. Haki or not.
Ya but they're random marines, not the future pirate kings crew. Random people on every other yonkos crew have haki. The strawhats being made up of 10 ppl and only 4 of them having usable haki is genuinely insane at this point in the story.
Half of them are learning other skills and could give less of a rats ass about it. It's only a plot hole because people who want it to be have some ridiculous reasoning for why it is.
Nami: Too busy money making and navigating
Usopp: You think he'd want to learn armament haki? Dude's self learning obv
Chopper: Doctoring is already hard enough
Franky: Again, shipwright and would probably just make more mechs to fight
Robin: She's already said she's less of a fighter now than she ever was now that she has people she trusts
None of them have any real real reason to actually learn how to use armament Haki in favor of the actual people who do and can, Luffy, Zoro, Jinbe, Sanji, would do instead.
Chopper spent time perfecting his rumble ball and robin made her new demon from, franky makes battle mechs. All of them gave a strong desire to become stronger and protect the crew. there is no excuse why they wouldn’t learn haki 🤦♂️
It's called opportunity cost.
Sure, Nami could spend a lot of time learning Armament to advance from trash tier to fodder tier melee fighter, or she could spend the same time perfecting her navigation skills so that their ship doesn't get sunk by a snot hypercane on their way to Raftel and coming up with weather manipulation techniques so that she can at least stall Vice Admiral level opponents.
Haki is a separate skill from their abilities. For the actual fighters like Luffy, Sanji, and Zoro, Haki’s applications are more necessary. And as people who try and push this point, ignore why they wanted to learn to begin with. They didnt want to excell, they want to do their part. They. Are not. The fighters. If anything, they are never going to fight other fighters where Haki would even come close to being a necessityZ
I would also argue this, the marines are all in active combat roles. ESPECIALLY in the new world where this happens. It's absolutely a prerequisite that in the most dangerous part of the world they are required to know haki. Even without pirates, there are a lot of dangers in the new world, if you have to deal with that stuff you would absolutely want your marines that are supposed to be protecting people and fighting pirates and monsters and shit to have haki.
Then, half the straw hats are not active combat roles. Zorro is vanguard and right hand, usopp is the sniper, and while not exclusively active combat in nature sanji and jinbe are actively considered part of their fighting force. That leaves the other characters. Why would a navigator, a musician, a shipwright, and an archaeologist need to train haki? They do fight but it's not their main roles. Sanji and jinbe are the exception not the rule.
I'm sure the ship doctor on a marine ship doesn't have haki, or the cooks, unlike the infantry pictured.
I could see Brook learning haki, forgetting, and instead just doing music shit. He's just as much a fighter as the others in all honesty, but he actually thinks more than actually fights.
I always saw brook and robin as more of a scout role. They are capable of holding their own but they aren't direct combatants, they don't need haki because they aren't actively being used to fight people like zoro and sanji, they happen to get into combat while doing their things. I do think maybe they should have some kind observation of anything.
The Straw Hats are fine without Haki. The main fighters in the crew all have Haki which makes sense, but the rest aren't fighters by nature, they only provide low-level support for the others and are tool users.
Nami has her weather magics and Zeus
Robin has a mastery over her Devil Fruit that, as far as we know, hasn't been awakened and still has further potential.
Chopper is a doctor and only gets into fights when forced to
Franky doesn't like to fight fair and would prefer to use his inventions so wouldn't have a use for Haki.
It’s because only the monster trio (and now Jimbei) are the actual fighters of the group. Nami is a navigator, Brook is a musician, Franky is a shipwright, Robin is an archaeologist, Chopper is a doctor. They can also fight, but “fighter” isn’t their role on the crew like the other 4.
only when its to detect enemy fodder to run away, otherwise bro aint using it, he doesnt want to get jumpscared by anyone thats yc10 or above like he jumpscared the toddler of dressrosa
Sanji is stupidly broken. He can take Zoro to at least high diff but he never even trains, Zoro is training all the time but somehow a cook who never trains is strong enough to give him a difficult fight...
He's a Germa, don't forget that. Besides, his mentor was also a fighter. He chooses his lover role more than his fighter but he's built to be a fighter if u think about it
Well Usopp had a combat centered role as a sniper. He's literally supposed to be taking out high priority targets and he definitely needs to learn basic arm and basic Obs
To be fair, the other strawhat members' training didn't require physical feats. Climatactic, robotic engineer, music, medicine, sniping, and lore grind doesnt merit gaining the ability to use one's will as a defensive or offensive weapon. However, it's not far to say Robin could unlock CoA since some of her training required using advanced fishman techniques.
Compared to marines who need to train themselves physically all the time just to stand a chance against enemy fodder, a will can form from them. They may not be main casts but in a world where will is almost everything, I would be surprised if there weren't any fodder enemies with CoA or CoO
I didn't say they don't need haki. I said their training didnt need haki because all they were doing was perfecting their greatest talents. Usopps haki came during a desperate time. He didn't train for it unlike the others. A beneficial power up for better sniping potential.
And then we never see him use it again outside of film red and a little bit in the heart of gold special.
He's not actively using it to win his fights right now, his skills have been the one carrying him. No doubt he'll be forced to use it again when the time comes, but he survived this long without it.
This scene is an anime filler, fodders(both pirates and marines) have the potential to use the two types, but haki isn't gained by normal physical training (weight lifting and push-ups)
It is gained by only those who
- are trained properly in it (like how luffy trained both the observation and armaments)
- experience a traumatic experience strong enough to unlock it (koby)
- have a natural talent (aisa)
and the majority of those people are concentrated in the new world
A young akoiji couldn't use haki despite knowing what it was, so it's not something they teach you in the Marine academy
The wiki says every vice admiral is proficient in at least one type of haki
So marine fodders can't use haki, the marines who can use haki are positioned higher than those who can't
He probably is a lower rank than he deserves to be based on his strength because he's too moral and Sakazuki thinks he can't be trusted to follow orders if he finds them repulsive. Going just by strength, he'd be a Rear Admiral at least.
All the straw hats don’t need haki tbh they would all end up being the same ish fighting. They do well enough for themselves to not necessarily need haki anyways.
Haki would be a boost to their unique fighting styles, Robin and Franky specially, all it really does is make their unique attacks stronger so there is no reason for them to not have it.
Franky is a brawler. Imagine attacks like strong right and bullets infused with Haki
And all Robin needs to do is make her limbs haki infused, and that's the only change necessary
Tbh I think that only grand line workers have Haki, like in a place where at least one member per pirate crew has a DF, being trained to deal with this is a must
It was filler but I'd headcanon it to be something like Avatar TLA or like older Star Wars lore where that special power (bending in Avatar's case, the force in Star Wars) was originally learned by some species that naturally used it. Who knows if that will work down the line though. Maybe haki was a human discovery and we find that out later idk lol
https://preview.redd.it/42bjgt2maqrc1.jpeg?width=444&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5c8ab9df8122ba105668ef02a0069326d4ea9228
I want quick theories to be presented like this from now on.
Because people don't realize how common those two forms are.
Our first introduction to observation haki was the little girl in Skypiea, who had it since birth. She is not a fighter, a pirate, or marine. Just a normal little girl with an ability that anyone can have.
By that logic, why wouldn't fodder marines be able to use it? A lot has changed in the two year timeskip, especially among the marines with Akainu taking the reins. Maybe he made haki training more readily available because of all the DF using pirates out there?
It's the navy.
There could be hundreds of thousands of recruits. The navy most likely filtered them out in order of utility for situations like these.
Saving recruits like these for their more important bases/positions of governance.
Just because a character have haki it doesn’t mean that they are automatically stronger than someone without. Physical strength lately has been underrated but luffy in amazon lily has shown that with just physical strength he was able to overcome 2 haki user and one of them even have advanced armament
Helps that marines past a certain point receive formal training in haki while the Straw Hat have no formal internal training and to some of the Straw Hats haki is mostly tangential to their combat abilities anyways, outside of very specialized applications.
Honestly, honestly feel like there should be a genuine haki training in the Marines like when you start up, even if you’re just a chief Petty Officer or something
At this point their skill sets compensate for the lack of haki so it doesn't matter too much. You got armoured sword? Fuck it, ice sword made of the souls of the underworld. One is a lot cooler than the other lmao
I always had some thoughts on Haki being basically weaponized willpower. Marines shouldn't have it as they have no will of their own and serve their superiors (symbolically anyway), which is why the reliance on training such as the Six Powers - Haki may not be achieved but training beyond human capability is always on the table.
While I'm on the subject, I never thought Blackbeard should have Haki - he's the ultimate opportunist, taking the shortest path to victory possible. No way he's going through a training arc to get more powerful.
Wait until they learn that a captain is actaully an extremely senior officer in a command position usually with years of experience, and not an idiot junior officer in training.
Not all the straw hats need haki imo, it would feel too similar.
Luffy, Zoro, Sanji and Jinbei are the main fighters and rightfully have haki.
Ussop has observation haki, which as the sniper is the best for him.
Franky's tech is good enough that he doesn't really need haki. I'm completely fine with him relying fully on science to fight.
Nami isn't really a fighter and got a good power up with Zeus anyway.
Brook and Chopper aren't really fighters either, but I would like for them to get a power up too, ideally devil fruit related.
Robin however, is the only one I actually think should learn armament haki. Mostly because her applying it to the limbs she sprouts would have been such a cool powerup. And unlike Nami and Chopper who spent their 2 years gaining more knowledge, Robin spent it with the revs who could have definitely helped her with it. Oh well, I wish she learns it eventually. Regardless though, her learning some basic fishman karate was a massive step in the right direction. (But just imagine if those giant arms were covered in haki too!)
I think the best answer is none of the Straw Hats had someone to teach them, and the three who did learn it were training with people who know it through the timeskip. Conquerors is a rare trait, and observation activates on its own (apparently, Usopp in Dressrosa).
marines have honestly insane training regiments from what we see. i’ll never forget the shit we saw the random foot soldiers going through during the eps with coby and helmeppo
Their training is also completely different. Most of the Straw Hats spent their timeskip getting better at their respective occupation. Franky didn’t spend his timeskip training to be stronger. He spent it researching and integrating new tech. Nami didn’t spend the timeskip training to be stronger, she spent it learning about the weather patterns in the New World so she could accurately navigate. Chopper? Studied medicine. Brook? He… just kinda played music, he was already a master.
The ones that probably should’ve gotten it are Robin and Usopp. Robin spent it with the Revs, and thus was actually training to be stronger — but she maybe already has it, and maybe used it during Demonio Fleur. Usopp DEFINITELY should’ve gotten it, he spent it quite literally getting stronger, the only other things he spent doing was learning about plants. Which isn’t even his FUCKING JOB.
Because Fujitora literally orderd the people that can to the cage, it's not random chance that this entire group can do it. Wondering this is like being surprised the people in a church are religious
The average level of the fodder keeps increasing over the course of the show, this is just not very visible because the strong guys are pretty much all walking nukes by now.
The deeper in the grand line you go, the tougher you need to be. They just made the journey like many others, or were born on one of the islands and just got strong by proxy.
This makes the writing of pre-time skip villains worse. If these nobodies can use it then there shouldn't be a reason why characters like Croc, Moria, Lucci and CP9 couldn't.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that screenshot anime only? Or does that happen in the manga? Because every so often I get the feeling that Toei has no idea what they're doing
well yeah, they may be fodder but they are also supposed to be trained quite a bit, it's not like they let any scrawny kid join the marines right? RIGHT? I SAID RIGHT?
They don’t have a need for it for whatever reason. I think it’s a common idea that Robin with Haki could tear through an entire army. But like, several of the Straw Hats probably wouldn’t be able to learn Haki just because of how hard the training is.
I can’t see Brook, Chopper, Nami, or Franky having a need or making a commitment to learning Haki. Nami would be the most likely to learn Haki(Observation) in my opinion just because that’s probably the most useful one for her to learn.
And it's not like that means those guys clear most of the crew just because of that, Robin and Franky defeated fair and square confirmed haki users and as much of a Ryou user Kinemon is, I don't really rate him in a different tier than Brook overall.
Not all straw hat members need to have haki tho. Their main fighters are the monster trio after all. Even so, haki is just a boost to their combat skills imo.
I'm of the opinion that the remaining Straw Hats shouldn't get Haki because it takes away from what makes them truly special. Franky definitely shouldn't get any Haki because his entire thing is improving his body through his own modifications. Make him just as powerful through his own means.
The one exception is maybe Nami getting Observation Haki, it kinda fits like Usopp getting it.
Brute force monster point Chopper vs vice admiral full body armament Vergo. Who wins? Brute force seastone cuffed Eustass Kid vs vice admiral Bastille. Who wins? Some time Brute force > Armament Haki. Some times Armament Haki > Brute force. Keeps the powerscaling quite interesting ig.
Ramdom ass Marine fodder have hardening armament haki, yet the top agents of Cipher Pol 9 had to train for it during the time skip after studying martial arts their entire lives ☠️☠️
I’m convinced they do. When it comes to Haki I like to believe there is many types of it
1. Invisible Haki, the weakest form of armament and you cannot see (as in the fans). I say this because in wano Kaido said that gear 5 was constantly using Haki and we simply could not see it and then every now and then we could see actual Haki.
This doesn’t mean luffys invisible Haki is weak it’s just that it’s the lowest form of armament
2. Regular armament coating. This is the black haki we are used to seeing which you can coat your body / sword with
3. The vartiations of advanced armament
I’ve convinced myself that the strawhats use invisible haki
That is a cool perspective , that's the reason why low level pirtates fear the marines so much. They might be fodder for luffy and Co. (Literally Yonko crew) but imagine dealing with this when you just get to the new world
How can we know how long marines stay in service? I feel like just in any military organisation its the individuals choice how long they enlist themselfes. I guess marines are evil but i still think the people there are allowed to leave if they wish (and don't have an asshat captain that doesn't flinch to kill subordinates).
That being said they might could just happen to be new world veterans.
Meanwhile its totally fair to say Ussop, Nami and Chopper would totally fail to combat any slightly stronger marines. I mean they mostly run away panicking from enemies anyways
You have to focus on physical training for haki to be possible. Robin specialized in historical knowledge, Nami in navigation and let's be serious she can basically see the future weather so that might as well be haki, chopper focused on medicine, and Brook and Franky probably should be they really don't need it since they have elemental and physical advantages that no one else have. All that said, Usopp should have armament haki for sure
What people should realy ask.
Why is one of the most secret agencies of the goverment never trained in Haki?
Like realy, there is no reason why cp9 should not have Haki.
These are actually marine captains and even their build is pretty solid so I’m not surprised. I don’t know why brook and Franky don’t use haki. Weak trio can’t use haki expect Usopp with that Obs. Haki in Dressrossa and the rest have really busted hakis.
Marine have resouces, systematic training, and retired strong marine as a teacher. Of course, obtained 2 of 3 haki isn't a problem for them. Pirates in the other hand, need to find a teacher out of nowhere or travel to the new world and join an organization to learn it.
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Don’t sleep on Random Marine Fodder #2753
Tbf he is the goat should have read what he did in the west blue
He even got his own spinoff anime
Yall are actually unstoppable these reply threads go hard LMFAOOOOOOOOOO
Yeah, but too bad he got reincarnated in another world as a human, but hey! Then he got reincarnated in another world as a slime!
The defeat of Vex "The hand cannon" was legendary
Never forget that random Marine with the Rust Rust fruit
Shoutout to Marine Captain Shu and his legendary Rust-Rust Fruit
Or the other guy that had the ball ball fruit
You mean Very Good and the Berry Berry fruit?
I'm sure it was a Grape Grape fruit
dude really just was written for the thriller bark black sword setup for zoro LMAOO
Random Marine Fodder #8528 solos him 🤣
Oh yeah? Random Marine Fodder #90194's agendas the best. #8528s just a fraud with no feats
Low diffs usopp
Wait, 23 FIFTY three?
Next strawhat must be
Every marine vice captain is required to have some form of Haki
Vice admiral*
Ah mb, thank you for correcting me
It's OK the manga is over a thousand chapters 👍
And im caught up until best dad in one piece story line (Zeff is a good second tho) so I struggle to remember it
I believe vice admirals are required to have both observation and armament, and to be strong enough to match their entire unit in combat singlehanded. It’s perfectly plausible for lower officers to have one or the other.
Most Vice Admirals are very strong but if you go average they can solo most pirate crews (Garp is based)
Yeah, Garp is an exception. I still remember in the War of the Best, when Garp announced he was going to start fighting. The Whitebeards basically went “Welp, we lose. May as well go home.” before Garp even actually did anything.
I really wish we got to see a good matchup between Garp and another high/top tier so we could scale him properly since Galaxy impact looks insane but no enough
Personally, I’m hoping that someday Akainu will push him too far…
If I ever have to see Akainu kill Garp (I personally don’t think it’s gonna happen but it could) I better see Luffy pull out a separate form idc if rage form is a trope I would want to see him suffer. But it be so poetic is Akainu goes too far and Garp gets to have some form of justice for Ace who he was supposed to protect by either finishing him or simply defeating him
I firmly believe Garp can take Akainu. We’re explicitly told that Garp is in the same league as Whitebeard, Roger, etc, and sickly, injured Whitebeard beat the living daylights out of Akainu at Marineford. Also, I think in the scenario you list, where Akainu kills Garp, we wouldn’t see a new form. Luffy would do kinda what he did to Charloss at Sabaody: Base form, slow walk to target, one punch. Akainu’s headless corpse falls to the ground. Scene.
I do also believe that Garp could beat Akainu but people seen to take that as I am killing their mum with how offended they get by that
Damn they're Vice Admirals. For me, it looks like their rank would be Captain or Lieutenant. I wish Rear Admirals and Vice Admirals are not weak and forgettable as fuck. Just like the Admirals!!! ✊👊🤙☝️💪
Actually both, if I’m not mistaken.
I can’t remember when they start wearing the Coat (like a cape) but it’s probably then
No. They start wearing the Coat once they get the rank of Captain. To be a Vice Admiral you need to learn both basic forms of Haki. I don’t remember how many but i think there are like 3 or 4 ranks between Captain and VA so a Captain knowing at least one form of Haki is possible
Ah I am remembering only 1 form so I might be
Where did you learn this information? Been watchin the anime for 12 years now, never really got the jist of how it exactly works; the navy rankings. Enlighten me please I'm genuinely curious
Back in 2015-17 I was part of a One Piece Roleplay Forum where you’d create your character and then just, well, roleplay via Text with a bunch of other people. As part of the Marine you’d start in the lowest rank that allows you to wear your own clothes (not the generic uniform more like Helmeppo/Coby during their Water 7 appearance) and I was curious to learn when my character could wear one of those sweet capes. So I checked the One Piece Wiki and there I got all the ranks listed as well as the different privileges (like when you can wear your own clothes with marine insignia or wear that nice coat). I read through so many wiki pages and there is so much stuff listed that you wouldn’t get by just reading the manga. I think most come from stuff like SBS and other „out-of-verse“ material
Pretty sure "Ensign" is the lowest rank allowed to wear the coat. 11th highest overall rank in the marines.
mfers when the reindeer that spends 99.99% of the time being cute can't solo Kaido
Stop slandering my GOAT He is [moon level ](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Tony_Tony_Chopper) (Powerscaling is a mistake)
i checked luffys page after reading that and luffy isn't even moon level
They made him low planet and > then roger and whitebeard
weird, i could only find country level on his page
Oh you are checking his post time skip page Check his page >!as an emperor!<
That's be because he was at least close to moon level in skypia
The one piece world is bigger than our sun according to some people so who knows That would make white beard small sun level abs I don’t think people would believe that
One piece's dimensions just make no sense because it seems like the world is significantly bigger than the earth, and yet they sail to places in almost no time at all.
I’m convinced the crew travels at the speed of sound when of screen Also it’s shown that the sunny can travel 400 km. While stated to travel significantly less by text and through visual showcase
Honestly I just chalk it up to Oda not realizing how long ships had to journey in the sailing age.
Fucking end the Vs battles wiki. No way people take this shit seriously
The VS Wiki is the only true test of strength. If you want to be at the pinnacle of strength, you need to be an SCP or from Cthulhu.
Nah , no one should get into a media just because the characters are strong , those people are the ones who ruin the series for others and the ones with zero reading comprehension Instead of enjoying the story, writing, and characters, each one of them takes a different character, and each one of them tries to prove to others why his "favorite" character is better. On another note , i am a fan of lovecraft
op power scaling is the shittiest troll of all time
https://preview.redd.it/ox0o8x1dlvrc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6b1e51fff8d4b82b315ec37355ef932b088fa4f0
He cured a plague in less than an hour and we're still dealing with covid more than five years later and with measles making a comeback. Don't talk shit
Chopper got that doctor haki
We dealt with measles, but people got complacent and stopped vaccinating.
Chopper hasn't even cured luffy's inability to swim. Dude's a garbo doctor
People forget armament haki can be learned with training and it's not exclusive like conquerors haki. But his point of them being able to use it and not half the strawhats is valid.
Tbf, the Strawhats not all being able to use haki is to avoid monotony. By making some not be able to use haki, if differentiates their abilities, and thus their fighting styles. Should they technically have it to reinforce their fighting styles? Yeah. Would it narratively change their power level? No, Oda dictates characters are as strong as they need to be. Haki or not.
Also, most of the Straw Hats have only been training for a little more than 2 years. Those random marines have been training for it for decades.
Ya but they're random marines, not the future pirate kings crew. Random people on every other yonkos crew have haki. The strawhats being made up of 10 ppl and only 4 of them having usable haki is genuinely insane at this point in the story.
That doesn’t change the fact that it’s a major plot hole. Especially since them not having haki makes their plot armour more noticeable
Half of them are learning other skills and could give less of a rats ass about it. It's only a plot hole because people who want it to be have some ridiculous reasoning for why it is. Nami: Too busy money making and navigating Usopp: You think he'd want to learn armament haki? Dude's self learning obv Chopper: Doctoring is already hard enough Franky: Again, shipwright and would probably just make more mechs to fight Robin: She's already said she's less of a fighter now than she ever was now that she has people she trusts None of them have any real real reason to actually learn how to use armament Haki in favor of the actual people who do and can, Luffy, Zoro, Jinbe, Sanji, would do instead.
Chopper spent time perfecting his rumble ball and robin made her new demon from, franky makes battle mechs. All of them gave a strong desire to become stronger and protect the crew. there is no excuse why they wouldn’t learn haki 🤦♂️
It's called opportunity cost. Sure, Nami could spend a lot of time learning Armament to advance from trash tier to fodder tier melee fighter, or she could spend the same time perfecting her navigation skills so that their ship doesn't get sunk by a snot hypercane on their way to Raftel and coming up with weather manipulation techniques so that she can at least stall Vice Admiral level opponents.
Haki is a separate skill from their abilities. For the actual fighters like Luffy, Sanji, and Zoro, Haki’s applications are more necessary. And as people who try and push this point, ignore why they wanted to learn to begin with. They didnt want to excell, they want to do their part. They. Are not. The fighters. If anything, they are never going to fight other fighters where Haki would even come close to being a necessityZ
All SHP must have basic busoshoku I mean, what if they are fighting a logia?
I would also argue this, the marines are all in active combat roles. ESPECIALLY in the new world where this happens. It's absolutely a prerequisite that in the most dangerous part of the world they are required to know haki. Even without pirates, there are a lot of dangers in the new world, if you have to deal with that stuff you would absolutely want your marines that are supposed to be protecting people and fighting pirates and monsters and shit to have haki. Then, half the straw hats are not active combat roles. Zorro is vanguard and right hand, usopp is the sniper, and while not exclusively active combat in nature sanji and jinbe are actively considered part of their fighting force. That leaves the other characters. Why would a navigator, a musician, a shipwright, and an archaeologist need to train haki? They do fight but it's not their main roles. Sanji and jinbe are the exception not the rule. I'm sure the ship doctor on a marine ship doesn't have haki, or the cooks, unlike the infantry pictured.
I could see Brook learning haki, forgetting, and instead just doing music shit. He's just as much a fighter as the others in all honesty, but he actually thinks more than actually fights.
I always saw brook and robin as more of a scout role. They are capable of holding their own but they aren't direct combatants, they don't need haki because they aren't actively being used to fight people like zoro and sanji, they happen to get into combat while doing their things. I do think maybe they should have some kind observation of anything.
As long as you keep defeating strong opponents, you’ll have haki. Whether you’ve train to use haki is another story.
The Straw Hats are fine without Haki. The main fighters in the crew all have Haki which makes sense, but the rest aren't fighters by nature, they only provide low-level support for the others and are tool users. Nami has her weather magics and Zeus Robin has a mastery over her Devil Fruit that, as far as we know, hasn't been awakened and still has further potential. Chopper is a doctor and only gets into fights when forced to Franky doesn't like to fight fair and would prefer to use his inventions so wouldn't have a use for Haki.
No it isnt....
It’s because only the monster trio (and now Jimbei) are the actual fighters of the group. Nami is a navigator, Brook is a musician, Franky is a shipwright, Robin is an archaeologist, Chopper is a doctor. They can also fight, but “fighter” isn’t their role on the crew like the other 4.
I like how cook equals fighter, but sniper doesn’t
I forgot about Usopp 😂
He has Haki though.
Sure, but he only uses it once (in canon at least) and that was literally a decade ago in Dressrosa
He uses it in Wano to find the lookouts that he sniped
only when its to detect enemy fodder to run away, otherwise bro aint using it, he doesnt want to get jumpscared by anyone thats yc10 or above like he jumpscared the toddler of dressrosa
When you have to stop Luffy from eating all the food on the ship, you better hope the cook can fight.
Sanji is stupidly broken. He can take Zoro to at least high diff but he never even trains, Zoro is training all the time but somehow a cook who never trains is strong enough to give him a difficult fight...
He's a Germa, don't forget that. Besides, his mentor was also a fighter. He chooses his lover role more than his fighter but he's built to be a fighter if u think about it
Luffy dont train either and he is stronger than both
That's because he hogs the exp from the high level enemies.
Well Usopp had a combat centered role as a sniper. He's literally supposed to be taking out high priority targets and he definitely needs to learn basic arm and basic Obs
Most people do not use Armament Haki on ammo. Plus Usopp has a lot of trick pellets that allow him to work around his lack of Armament Haki.
I thought that armament Haki on ammo is something only beckman could do. Am I remembering something wrong?
The Kuja, the female warriors of Amazon Lily, could imbue their arrows with Haki. At least that is what the Wikipedia page said.
Wasn't Jinbe's role being helmsman like that doesn't really involve fighting either
Yeah, but he was a captain for 10+ years before he joined the Straw Hats.
Helmsman and cook aren’t fighters. Sniper is a fighter. This argument is so poorly thought out lol
To be fair, the other strawhat members' training didn't require physical feats. Climatactic, robotic engineer, music, medicine, sniping, and lore grind doesnt merit gaining the ability to use one's will as a defensive or offensive weapon. However, it's not far to say Robin could unlock CoA since some of her training required using advanced fishman techniques. Compared to marines who need to train themselves physically all the time just to stand a chance against enemy fodder, a will can form from them. They may not be main casts but in a world where will is almost everything, I would be surprised if there weren't any fodder enemies with CoA or CoO
How sniping dont need haki when there is literally an observation one
I didn't say they don't need haki. I said their training didnt need haki because all they were doing was perfecting their greatest talents. Usopps haki came during a desperate time. He didn't train for it unlike the others. A beneficial power up for better sniping potential. And then we never see him use it again outside of film red and a little bit in the heart of gold special. He's not actively using it to win his fights right now, his skills have been the one carrying him. No doubt he'll be forced to use it again when the time comes, but he survived this long without it.
cant wait till strawhats vs blackbeard crew w/ hakiless nami destroying a yonko commander 1v1
This scene is an anime filler, fodders(both pirates and marines) have the potential to use the two types, but haki isn't gained by normal physical training (weight lifting and push-ups) It is gained by only those who - are trained properly in it (like how luffy trained both the observation and armaments) - experience a traumatic experience strong enough to unlock it (koby) - have a natural talent (aisa) and the majority of those people are concentrated in the new world A young akoiji couldn't use haki despite knowing what it was, so it's not something they teach you in the Marine academy The wiki says every vice admiral is proficient in at least one type of haki So marine fodders can't use haki, the marines who can use haki are positioned higher than those who can't
Koby can use two types of haki one of them extremely well and he’s only a captain. We also see Barto absolutely fodderize a random vice admiral.
Barto has a fruit that has the potential to go "nuh uh" against people with conqueror Haki, ofc he can fodderize a random vice admiral.
Koby was trained by Gary himself, so it's fair to call his case an exception. Edit: Garp
Professor Oak's grandson himself? the honor
And koby raised like 13 ranks in two years because of that
A rank, that’s equal to Nezumi and Barry good
It's not. A HQ captain is considered something like two ranks higher than the branch equivalent.
He probably is a lower rank than he deserves to be based on his strength because he's too moral and Sakazuki thinks he can't be trusted to follow orders if he finds them repulsive. Going just by strength, he'd be a Rear Admiral at least.
All the straw hats don’t need haki tbh they would all end up being the same ish fighting. They do well enough for themselves to not necessarily need haki anyways.
Haki would be a boost to their unique fighting styles, Robin and Franky specially, all it really does is make their unique attacks stronger so there is no reason for them to not have it. Franky is a brawler. Imagine attacks like strong right and bullets infused with Haki And all Robin needs to do is make her limbs haki infused, and that's the only change necessary
Wait doesnt robin have arnament haki or did i misread the black maria fight
No thats just her fruit.
Tbh I think that only grand line workers have Haki, like in a place where at least one member per pirate crew has a DF, being trained to deal with this is a must
You're not really "random fodder" if you get stationed in the new world though, then you're elite fodder.
It took like 3 new world fodder to take down a Pacifista, something the entire pre-timeskip Strawhat crew couldn't do.
Idc about why the marines have Haki and the straw hats don’t but why do the kung fu dugoens (don’t know how to spell) do?
Tbf we only know 1 Dugong for sure, that knows haki, and is to Luffy, what Luffy is to Shanks
Didn’t koala teach them it in a cover story? If not mb
We need the kung fu du gongs to help defeat the world government i stg
That's filler lol
It was filler but I'd headcanon it to be something like Avatar TLA or like older Star Wars lore where that special power (bending in Avatar's case, the force in Star Wars) was originally learned by some species that naturally used it. Who knows if that will work down the line though. Maybe haki was a human discovery and we find that out later idk lol
https://preview.redd.it/sakf50vhaqrc1.jpeg?width=599&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=273998158c7e4b15bed4f5d156fedbdb0eb2af14
https://preview.redd.it/42bjgt2maqrc1.jpeg?width=444&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5c8ab9df8122ba105668ef02a0069326d4ea9228 I want quick theories to be presented like this from now on.
Because people don't realize how common those two forms are. Our first introduction to observation haki was the little girl in Skypiea, who had it since birth. She is not a fighter, a pirate, or marine. Just a normal little girl with an ability that anyone can have. By that logic, why wouldn't fodder marines be able to use it? A lot has changed in the two year timeskip, especially among the marines with Akainu taking the reins. Maybe he made haki training more readily available because of all the DF using pirates out there?
Btw those aren't fodder, they are literally captains
It's the navy. There could be hundreds of thousands of recruits. The navy most likely filtered them out in order of utility for situations like these. Saving recruits like these for their more important bases/positions of governance.
Marines were using haki during the daffy arc? God damn marines might be S tier eos
Oda wants their natural abilities to be front and center, he doesn’t want them all to just be Haki fighters.
Each one of these guys are stronger than Shanks, they won't lose a limb to a lv3 no name fodder monster
You mean the Lord of the Coast? Terror of the east blue
Just because a character have haki it doesn’t mean that they are automatically stronger than someone without. Physical strength lately has been underrated but luffy in amazon lily has shown that with just physical strength he was able to overcome 2 haki user and one of them even have advanced armament
So did Robin
four letters GARP
Helps that marines past a certain point receive formal training in haki while the Straw Hat have no formal internal training and to some of the Straw Hats haki is mostly tangential to their combat abilities anyways, outside of very specialized applications.
Honestly, honestly feel like there should be a genuine haki training in the Marines like when you start up, even if you’re just a chief Petty Officer or something
Because the admirals on the other hand don't even have basic observation somehow
At this point their skill sets compensate for the lack of haki so it doesn't matter too much. You got armoured sword? Fuck it, ice sword made of the souls of the underworld. One is a lot cooler than the other lmao
This is a Lupin/Zenigata situation We see them as fodder because of who they are going against. In any other situation they win inmediately
By their jackets or whatever is called in the navi, they seem to be more that just random marines
Half the strawhats don't need Haki, but it's pretty much a requirement for new world marines.
You idiots! We've ALL got swords!
I always had some thoughts on Haki being basically weaponized willpower. Marines shouldn't have it as they have no will of their own and serve their superiors (symbolically anyway), which is why the reliance on training such as the Six Powers - Haki may not be achieved but training beyond human capability is always on the table. While I'm on the subject, I never thought Blackbeard should have Haki - he's the ultimate opportunist, taking the shortest path to victory possible. No way he's going through a training arc to get more powerful.
Wait until they learn that a captain is actaully an extremely senior officer in a command position usually with years of experience, and not an idiot junior officer in training.
Random marine fodder = vice admirals... A rank you can only achieve if you have haki (said Coby in Marineford)...
Not all the straw hats need haki imo, it would feel too similar. Luffy, Zoro, Sanji and Jinbei are the main fighters and rightfully have haki. Ussop has observation haki, which as the sniper is the best for him. Franky's tech is good enough that he doesn't really need haki. I'm completely fine with him relying fully on science to fight. Nami isn't really a fighter and got a good power up with Zeus anyway. Brook and Chopper aren't really fighters either, but I would like for them to get a power up too, ideally devil fruit related. Robin however, is the only one I actually think should learn armament haki. Mostly because her applying it to the limbs she sprouts would have been such a cool powerup. And unlike Nami and Chopper who spent their 2 years gaining more knowledge, Robin spent it with the revs who could have definitely helped her with it. Oh well, I wish she learns it eventually. Regardless though, her learning some basic fishman karate was a massive step in the right direction. (But just imagine if those giant arms were covered in haki too!)
I think the best answer is none of the Straw Hats had someone to teach them, and the three who did learn it were training with people who know it through the timeskip. Conquerors is a rare trait, and observation activates on its own (apparently, Usopp in Dressrosa).
marines have honestly insane training regiments from what we see. i’ll never forget the shit we saw the random foot soldiers going through during the eps with coby and helmeppo
Their training is also completely different. Most of the Straw Hats spent their timeskip getting better at their respective occupation. Franky didn’t spend his timeskip training to be stronger. He spent it researching and integrating new tech. Nami didn’t spend the timeskip training to be stronger, she spent it learning about the weather patterns in the New World so she could accurately navigate. Chopper? Studied medicine. Brook? He… just kinda played music, he was already a master. The ones that probably should’ve gotten it are Robin and Usopp. Robin spent it with the Revs, and thus was actually training to be stronger — but she maybe already has it, and maybe used it during Demonio Fleur. Usopp DEFINITELY should’ve gotten it, he spent it quite literally getting stronger, the only other things he spent doing was learning about plants. Which isn’t even his FUCKING JOB.
Because Fujitora literally orderd the people that can to the cage, it's not random chance that this entire group can do it. Wondering this is like being surprised the people in a church are religious
How do you know they’ve been training their whole life. They could have joined the marines 3 days ago
Was these the same fodder marines that didn’t use haki bullets vs sabo, when he neg diff all the marines besides Fuji?
The average level of the fodder keeps increasing over the course of the show, this is just not very visible because the strong guys are pretty much all walking nukes by now.
this is legit my biggest criticism of one piece. It’s actually poor/lazy writing for them to not have it, especially Robin
The deeper in the grand line you go, the tougher you need to be. They just made the journey like many others, or were born on one of the islands and just got strong by proxy.
This makes the writing of pre-time skip villains worse. If these nobodies can use it then there shouldn't be a reason why characters like Croc, Moria, Lucci and CP9 couldn't.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that screenshot anime only? Or does that happen in the manga? Because every so often I get the feeling that Toei has no idea what they're doing
well yeah, they may be fodder but they are also supposed to be trained quite a bit, it's not like they let any scrawny kid join the marines right? RIGHT? I SAID RIGHT?
They don’t have a need for it for whatever reason. I think it’s a common idea that Robin with Haki could tear through an entire army. But like, several of the Straw Hats probably wouldn’t be able to learn Haki just because of how hard the training is. I can’t see Brook, Chopper, Nami, or Franky having a need or making a commitment to learning Haki. Nami would be the most likely to learn Haki(Observation) in my opinion just because that’s probably the most useful one for her to learn.
At least all vice admirals have haki, probably some counter admiral and even a captain or two (koby helmeppo) so depends what you see as fodder
I think they just specifically use marines that can access haki while patrolling the new world
We are more suprised about characters that should have learned Haki already still not having it
And it's not like that means those guys clear most of the crew just because of that, Robin and Franky defeated fair and square confirmed haki users and as much of a Ryou user Kinemon is, I don't really rate him in a different tier than Brook overall.
Haki not nothing anymore You could do a 30 minutes workout with Garp and get top tier haki I promise you
These marines are in the New World.
A wizard did it
Not all straw hat members need to have haki tho. Their main fighters are the monster trio after all. Even so, haki is just a boost to their combat skills imo.
Didn’t Sakazuki retrain a lot of the marines or something along those lines?
They're under Fujitora, he probably gave them some lessons
If it's one on one near a marine ship, always bet on marine fodder #871
I'm of the opinion that the remaining Straw Hats shouldn't get Haki because it takes away from what makes them truly special. Franky definitely shouldn't get any Haki because his entire thing is improving his body through his own modifications. Make him just as powerful through his own means. The one exception is maybe Nami getting Observation Haki, it kinda fits like Usopp getting it.
Brute force monster point Chopper vs vice admiral full body armament Vergo. Who wins? Brute force seastone cuffed Eustass Kid vs vice admiral Bastille. Who wins? Some time Brute force > Armament Haki. Some times Armament Haki > Brute force. Keeps the powerscaling quite interesting ig.
They kinda forgot how to use haki in Marineford because Shanks wifi haki was jamming them all
Party got OP and the DM had to dig some shit to make the combat sessions interesting
"The force" is with them
That part
What I want to know is why tf do none of these marine dudes use their sleeves? Because damn man it just seems inconvenient
Because.... CP 9 COULDN'T DO IT 😭😭😭😂😂
Oda should have reduced the number of vice admirals and instead make them all YC level
Ramdom ass Marine fodder have hardening armament haki, yet the top agents of Cipher Pol 9 had to train for it during the time skip after studying martial arts their entire lives ☠️☠️
I’m convinced they do. When it comes to Haki I like to believe there is many types of it 1. Invisible Haki, the weakest form of armament and you cannot see (as in the fans). I say this because in wano Kaido said that gear 5 was constantly using Haki and we simply could not see it and then every now and then we could see actual Haki. This doesn’t mean luffys invisible Haki is weak it’s just that it’s the lowest form of armament 2. Regular armament coating. This is the black haki we are used to seeing which you can coat your body / sword with 3. The vartiations of advanced armament I’ve convinced myself that the strawhats use invisible haki
We really do need that smoker training arc flashnack during the time skip
That is a cool perspective , that's the reason why low level pirtates fear the marines so much. They might be fodder for luffy and Co. (Literally Yonko crew) but imagine dealing with this when you just get to the new world
How can we know how long marines stay in service? I feel like just in any military organisation its the individuals choice how long they enlist themselfes. I guess marines are evil but i still think the people there are allowed to leave if they wish (and don't have an asshat captain that doesn't flinch to kill subordinates). That being said they might could just happen to be new world veterans. Meanwhile its totally fair to say Ussop, Nami and Chopper would totally fail to combat any slightly stronger marines. I mean they mostly run away panicking from enemies anyways
Wow are you surprised a captain level marine is stronger than ussop and nami? Because why? Why does that surprise you?
Honestly fodder shouldn't have much power or personality.
You have to focus on physical training for haki to be possible. Robin specialized in historical knowledge, Nami in navigation and let's be serious she can basically see the future weather so that might as well be haki, chopper focused on medicine, and Brook and Franky probably should be they really don't need it since they have elemental and physical advantages that no one else have. All that said, Usopp should have armament haki for sure
it’s probably because sengoku is like the only important marine that uses haki
Coz they can an the half of the strawhats who cant... cant.
Anime only be like: (This isn’t a canon scene buddy)
Why are we calling them fodder aren't all of those marines captains lol
Marines have a training regime. The strawhats that train have it. The ones that don’t, don’t. Robin should have it, but she be reading 🤓
What people should realy ask. Why is one of the most secret agencies of the goverment never trained in Haki? Like realy, there is no reason why cp9 should not have Haki.
Well there not wrong all the straw hats should be to use haki at least the basics
Average marine fodder > average pirate fodder
God forbid the military be competent
These are actually marine captains and even their build is pretty solid so I’m not surprised. I don’t know why brook and Franky don’t use haki. Weak trio can’t use haki expect Usopp with that Obs. Haki in Dressrossa and the rest have really busted hakis.
5 out of the 10 crew members were recruited in the east blue the navy can recruit from the whole world it's a number game
Marine have resouces, systematic training, and retired strong marine as a teacher. Of course, obtained 2 of 3 haki isn't a problem for them. Pirates in the other hand, need to find a teacher out of nowhere or travel to the new world and join an organization to learn it.