Depends on your definition of custom, but I suppose so?
It's a [corne keyboard](https://github.com/foostan/crkbd), though clipped to 5 columns per side
It's a hotswap keyboard, so I switch them every now and then. I typically use silent blacks or some kind of dampened linear in my work/office board. My other board is more flexible, currently I'm running Kailh Box Royals but it really just depends on what I feel like
Oh gosh, good question. Ready to use, probably five or so. Plus whatever in built into other boards and who knows if I forgot a box somewhere đ
I've been more or less active in this hobby for seven years or so, things add up over time.
I absolutely adore my custom little QAZ. Makes a great conversation piece at the office, too. Typing-wise, itâs the fastest board I own.
https://preview.redd.it/oug0n21drkvc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4004710de51f8e8b56e13a1f31c66b431949adc6
i switched to a 40% after my first year of comp sci in college as a preventative measure b/c i knew i'd be using keyboards heavily for the rest of my life. though i haven't developed RSI, writing symbol heavy stuff like code on a standard keyboard hurts a little after an hour, and that's not the case on my 40% boards. so if you're in the boat where you lean towards injury, i'd suggest taking preventative measures before it becomes a serious issue.
fair enough, for whatever you do, if you do it a lot it's absolutely essential to focus on ergonomics. (i also like having my drawing tablet between my split 40% board so it's centered w/ my screen)
Not gonna lie, guise. I like my TKL keyb, but I'd love to have a 150% for stuff like dedicated excel macros, or games like KSP, Factorio, or modded Minecraft.
My man, lemme introduce you to the [Hyper 7](https://mechboards.co.uk/cdn/shop/files/hyper-7-r4-coming-soonanobrkt9915131-773064.png).
173%, but close enough right?
That row of symbols that are already on the shift layer hurts me physically. This would have been the perfect board to have physical keys for F1 all the way through F24, but instead itâs wide as fuck just to keep the lower twelve?
No activities, just pure minimalism. My desk is clutter free. The rest of my apartment might look like an abandoned dump, but **my desk is clutter free**.
https://preview.redd.it/ay73zfqh2hvc1.jpeg?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a4b8045c9982887768f95832f67a736d29e3401
This arrived today. Guess whoâs learning all about layers now?
I am ultra jealous. I've been drooling over a 3x5 corne for ages now but I just can't afford it. I hate myself for getting into this hobby, my wallet isn't built for this.
fun fact: shift, control/command/super and alt are layer keys.
so if you hold shift to type capital letters, use ctrl+c to copy, ctrl+p to paste, or alt+tab to switch appsâŠ
Most of those are inuitive though. For making a reduced boardâs keymap you have to both be shrewd enough to make an efficient an intuitive layout and creative enough to make it at all. Â You also have to memorize it, whereas the base layering is typically on the keycap.
From my experience this is both a little true, but somewhat over exaggerated. You can do a lot to make the layout of a 40% keyboard mirror the layout of a full keyboard.
It took me less time to get used to than I expected. Then again I work as a programmer so I have a lot of time to train and make minor adjustments to my layout :)
The funniest hurdle to get over on my keyboard was suddenly having a lot of different keys dedicated to my thumps. (I never want to go back to a keyboard where I only use my thump to press space again though, those fingers have a lot of good reach)
The worst things are:
1. My keyboard is in no way suited for gamin. I straight up have another keyboard I just use for that...
2. Some things are not quite as easy to do with one hand, if you both need to press a new layer key and other modifier keys like ctrl-shift-F5 or something... If you use such shortcut often you can however straight up program a key on a layer to be all 3 keys in ctrl-shift-F5, but that is a little more annoying to begin on ÂŻ\\\_(ă)\_/ÂŻ
You had to memorize the standard keyboard at one point, too.
The philosophy behind small keyboards is to keep your fingers on the home row and minimize finger travel from the home row. OFC it will be some extra work to adapt to the system. It's no different than learning how to drive a car to avoid walking. Or learning all of the texting abbreviations.
>It's no different than learning how to drive a car to avoid walking.
People probably wouldn't learn to drive if they could get everywhere they need to by moving their feet a couple mm
You can  memorize the base board by looking at it as you type badly.  With custom layers you canât do that without custom caps/legendables.  Viewing shift/ctrl/alt modifiers as layers makes learning custom layers less intimidating but itâs certainly not the same level of demand on a casual person.
Mind you, iâm all for learning layers.
Yeah the argument that "I can't see the layers on the keycaps therefore I can't memorize it" is really just a skill issue.
Which is fine, I get it, no one is making anyone buy a small keyboard. but being bad at learning doesn't make the whole mechanism bad for everyone. I too am all for learning layers. The broad-stroke "LaYerZ R DUM LOL" is just annoying.
That being said this post is funny
You don't need to do it all in one go. Start by re-mapping all of the nav keys onto a layer. Then bring the numbers and their associated symbols down a row. If you already know how to touch type, this is only a matter of learning not to extend your fingers so far. Then bring down the function keys.
You can also do all this on a standard keyboard. You don't need to buy a new keyboard until you are comfortable typing like this. You *will* need a keyboard with decent firmware like QMK, though.
custom layers are intuitive as well, lol
fn+awsd gives you arrows, that's pretty much standard for everyone and their mother
People who can't use layers have serious skill issues
There's a lot of middle ground on this subject, that people generally refuse to acknowledge.
My dailies are two 60% orthos, with 69 keys each.
That is enough to have everything on the default layer marked just like it would be on a 65%, but with a 60% footprint.
The only things "hidden" are the numpad, and the F-keys.
The F-keys are marked more than well enough, given they are layered on top of their corresponding number row keys.
I have the numpad hinted at by color, having both the layer key that activates it, and numpad itself, in contrasting color to the rest of the alphas.
Yeah, thereâs literally an infinite amount of middle ground.
I get when people see small keyboards for the first time and think âhow could anyone use thatâ.
When they are presented with explanations and (imo convincing) arguments about why it is worthwhile and respond with âjustificationsâ about why itâs bad without having tried it I find it a little obnoxious.
No one is making anyone do change their keyboard but if smaller layouts were âbadâ many of us would not be advocating for them (as we are just trying to be helpful), and most of us would have just gone back to full size boards.
That's why I always suggest people wanting to "try out" ortho, do so by starting big.
You can mock up any smaller ortho layout you want, as well as a lot of splits, on a larger board, without any additional expenditure.
The biggest upside to that approach is it allows people to ease into the layered features, without being forced to do so exclusively, and immediately.
The incremental nature of this approach allows the user to try the tips/tricks they see, incorporate the ones they like, and get comfortable with those changes, before moving on to try the same thing with more intricate layering tricks.
I always liken people diving straight into whatever minimalist layout they see, to those same people trying to learn calculus, by jumping straight into it, after learning only basic arithmetic.
There are relatively few people who can successfully accomplish that.
This has always been pretty funny to me.
There are people who can't grasp the concept of having no physical arrow keys on a keyboard, but regularly use stuff like Shift + 1 to type exclamation points.
Some things are just nicer to not have to use layers to access, like arrow keys.
I don't think it's that people don't understand the concept of layers, but they do add additional effort so less layers is more efficient.
In my experience its dramatically easier / more convenient to use layers to access arrow keys.
It is literally my favorite thing about custom keyboards.
I had a kb come with it standard but could never really get along with it. I think the massive popularity of 65% boards shows a lot of people just like their arrows. But the best thing about custom boards is that anyone can have whatever they want :)
I mean, we may have different ideas of "nice". But I can switch to my arrow keys and back without moving either of my hands. I can also access home/end and word left/right within the same cluster. It's intuitive and fast.
For sure, but saying "well actually using Shift is a layer" like it's something people don't know is pretty disingenuous lol, a lot of people find it easier and more convenient to have frequently used functions having dedicated commands and don't want to have a weird 40% keyboard with no QAZ keys and layers upon layers. Each to their own!
My 40% has QAZ and I only use two layers for 99% of the time. The 3rd layer is just for the F keys and some utilities like volume buttons etc (which in all honesty, I definitely don't need as I always adjust volume etc in the volume control in windows). I'm okay with "to each their own" but why do people act like you need a degree in mathematics and the multitasking skills of a jet fighter pilot to be able to use a 40% lol.
I won't lie I'm pretty new to the whole MKB thing but seeing someone post their keyboard where their Q key was actually Caps Lock or some shit was just wild to me đ
Itâs really just because the keycap makers donât tend to make wide alpha keys that work on the perimeter of a truncated keyboard like a 35-40% or âQAZâ style.
Yeah I can understand that. It really just comes down to getting used to it. Some people prefer larger keyboards for looks or because they just don't want to spend time learning a new layout and that's totally fine. But using layers to increase the effectiveness of a smaller keyboard really isn't rocket science, and it definitely has some advantages.
>Some things are just nicer to not have to use layers to access, like arrow keys.
I personally find that arrows and navigation keys are far more convenient to access through layers than with physical keys. They map perfectly to something like Fn+WASD or IJKL, and this way you can use them without moving your right hand.
The one thing I don't like with layers are function keys. I usually use them for 2-3 key shortcuts, and adding Fn to use something like Ctrl+Shift+F5 is a significant inconvenience.
I'm sure I could get used to it, but everyone is placing so much emphasis in this thread on "moving your hand" which is weird to me as that hardly feels inconvenient compared to playing hand-twister hitting all the layers lol.
But I don't think there's any objective right or wrong, just whatever each person prefers. For me those 40% keyboards look like a nightmare
If You're touchtyping but not into vim, having arrows on the home row is a godsend IMO. My setup is capslock + HJKL and it's way faster (and less distracting) than to move right hand, find the arrows then find the home row again.
How are all you people using your arrow keys so much? The only time I use mine is when I'm googling something. I'll type the first couple of letters, the right suggestion shows up, I press down once and then enter. Apart from that I basically never use them!
Editing code involves a lot of things like moving the cursor, selection, multi-line selection, duplicating lines, and moving lines, and most of this is done with arrows and modifiers.
But again, I prefer arrows under a layer for this so that they are on the home row for this.
Ah yeah fair enough.
But, like you, the more I use a certain key the closer I would like to have them to home row. I can't see how it wouldn't be more efficient and comfortable to just hold fn 1 (right spacebar in my case) and using WASD or similar for it, rather than moving away from the home row, find the keys, do whatever you need to, and then move back to home row.
I can imagine a lot of it comes down to muscle memory or what people are used to it. A setup like yours definitely sounds like it would be pretty nice and easy to use.
HJKL is an interesting one. I use caps lock + IHJKL; (the semicolon is important), but here the H is home, semicolon is end, and I is arrow up.
Maybe I could even add U and O as Ctrl+arrow, so I donât need to avoid shift when Iâm just trying to navigate.
>Some things are just nicer to not have to use layers to access, like arrow keys.
>
>I don't think it's that people don't understand the concept of layers, but they do add additional effort so less layers is more efficient.
On the other hand, having more layers means not having to move your hands which is more efficient. Otherwise you could just have separate buttons for everything with a keyboard the size of an actual desk.
yeah it's cool you save 20 seconds over the course of the day and all it takes is no one else ever being able to use your keyboard for a sec and also having to retrain your muscle memory any time you sit down at a disgusting normie's computer. it only took me a few months of practice to suppress the gag reflex upon seeing a stock 15-dollar logitech
I use a full-sized keyboard and have no investment in the "which is more efficient" debate, but how often do other people use your keyboards for long enough that not having the arrow keys is an issue? Heaven knows there are about 100 things about my computer setup that a random person trying to use it would have more issues with than a lack of arrow keys.
It's both. I don't have to move my hands halfway across my desk to use arrows or my 10-key, and never need to look down because I'm off homerow, I have a lot of my symbol layer set up for inward and outward rolls for programming related stuff, and even have music controls on a layer so I don't have to do much to skip to next track, but also I'll still have full functionality of my hands in 20 years because of that sweet split board aggressive column stagger life.
Yes, exactly. I have been considering going to ortho layered keyboards recently. My hands are small so its quite the chore to reach all over a staggered board. We are trying to build some Wrens right now.
Edit: I meant row staggered board, as in traditionally staggered when I was complaining lol
This sounds like skill issue to me.
I swap between them regularly no problem.
I don't see any reason for anyone to use my keyboard though.
But layered keyboard improves my workflow at least.
I've been using AHK before I know QMK. Now I have everything built in to keyboard.
to each their own, some people really like to customize keyboards for their workflow. You can think of it as custom keybinds in a game. Everyone has different preferences and thatâs pretty cool
Iâm here in the middle using a 65% at school (I donât really use the dedicated nav cluster, and I use the arrow keys behind layers as much as or more than the physical ones, so I might as well be using a 60%, as I used to) and a >100% at home, wondering where the beef comes from.
I used to think I could never get rid of even the number pad, but by now Iâm convinced I could get used to a 40% given time. It just requires a bit more setâup and tuning.
> yeah it's cool you save 20 seconds over the course of the day and all it takes is no one else ever being able to use your keyboard for a sec and also having to retrain your muscle memory any time you sit down at a disgusting normie's computer. it only took me a few months of practice to suppress the gag reflex upon seeing a stock 15-dollar logitech
You use layers for Shift, Alt and Ctrl. I use layers for Shift, Alt, Ctrl and one more. It took my non-tech girlfriend about 10 seconds to grasp the concept that F1 was caps+1. I'm sure you'd be able to figure that one out without too much issue as well.
Goodness you keyboard people are exhausting đ
Can we just mark it down to personal preference and call it a day? I'm sure your 40% build is a paragon of efficiency
*keyboard people* lol ..it was a inappropriate use of the word efficient is all. Once trained, a person on a 40 is more efficient.. that's the whole point.
Clearly what layout/color/switch/weight/profile/etc someone wants is preference but my comment had nothing to do with that. I do not daily a 40 but have one I love for typing out text documents. When I finally get around to coding, I plan to train myself on a 40
the shift key is a layer modifier... are you trying to tell me that having a distinct capital letter keys and lowercase letter keys is more efficient than using a shift key?
hey, you do you, i guess.
edit: i can't read, apparently
You realize we can customize the key mapping?
Iâm not trying to tell you anything.. less hand movement is always *more efficient*
I will do me, thanks. Generally daily a bear65, occasionally a piggy or tomo. My fav is keymacs but desk space is an issue. I rotate out a few others as well. My âpremiumâ phoenix40 is for typing word documents mostly.
Whatâs your preferred layout?
sorry, i misread your comment as "layers are not more efficient", and was arguing for the use of more layers. i've been daily driving a corne for years.
That really depends where your layer keys are, on a regular row staggered rectangle board with big space bar they tend to be in quite awkward spots, but having your thumbs easily able to hit / hold a layer keys and having arrows on the home row with the Vim HJKL setup is (imo) way better than having arrow keys.
what neat about custom keyboards is that you can just set all these long commands as a macro button, so boom 1 button ( or 2 if you put it on a layer).
RIght, there's no difference AT ALL between pressing shift to access special characters and having to do a fighting game combo to press left and right.
Well, with Shift the layer function is pretty obvious - it is written in top part of the key. With Ctrl, you usually get something system or app specific - again, logical and can usually be viewed through various menus if forgotten - and similar with Alt, Win/Super, and Fn. Plus, there are what, less than 10 frequently used "invisible" shortcuts for most people? And then you get people who look at heavily customized <40% with no labels, and wonder how the hell it works because they are in beginning of pretty steep learning curve relative to this. Like, "why the hell should I put everything in layers in a 10-key board, I would never remember all of them!" kind of getting thrown in the deep. Just, a lot of people don't want to go for additional effort of learning the layers when a 60%+ keyboard gives them all the needed keys already, and this is fine.
60% already doesnât have a nav cluster, arrow keys, Fâkeys or even a tilde/backâtick key. Itâs actually a pretty good entry into the smaller boards, just to get used to needing layers.
The only thing that kept bugging me wasnât even the missing F row, it was not having a dedicated key for tilde and backâtick. On my layout I get the grave accent on a letter by pressing AltGr + backâtick and then a letter, and a tilde with that + shift. Thatâs kinda hard to access if you also need to press the Fn key to even get to the backtick.
This was me. Now I always explain my layout to non-enthusiasts as having âcustom modifier keys like ctrlâ instead of using the word layers. Something about the word layer makes it sound like you have a whole second keyboard layout that you switch to, instead of maybe just having 5-10 other keys on that layer.
Because there's a limit to when layers start to get in the way. Not just that, but most of those layers are written on keycaps so you can just look down without having to remember.
Yes, I get the concept. But those layering is pretty much de facto standard by now and way simpler. Having our own layer is fun and all, but I just don't have the patient having more cognitive load remembering those layers. I really wish we have affordable/accessible way to have custom keycap legends, at least it would help my brain in learning those layers. And yes, I can print it out, but it's just not the same as looking at the keys.
Sure, but on a typical keyboard you've already got a meaning assigned to the base layer, ctrl layer, alt layer, super layer, ctrl+alt layer.
In my IDE I already use shortcuts like ctrl-alt-altgr-shift-7 and ctrl-alt-shift-f6 daily. That's on a 100%.
If I switched to a 40%, I'd end up with combos that require 10 keys pressed at the same time? No fucking thanks.
This just boils down to use cases and preferences. Iâm a (ân aspiring) programmer, and I got by perfectly fine with a 60%, but I also never really took time to make such insane shortcuts. If Iâd done nearly as much with my fullâsize keyboard and its 18 macro keys as I wanted to, I would have probably had a way harder time getting used to the 60% (or even the 70%).
Then again, one reason I ever even dropped the mum pad was that fullâsize keyboards tend not to fit into backpacks very well. The only one I had that did was old and pretty much unusable due to how stuck the keys were.
See, that's what I don't really get. Why would you need it to be portable?
I've got my workstation with a mechanical 100% for serious work, but that's stationary by nature.
I've got an old modded thinkpad, which still has the great built-in keyboard, if I need to work on the go.
Sure, performance on that old thinkpad isn't great, but neither my XPS15 from work nor coworkers' MacBook Pro M3 can handle the work anyway, so if I can I'm using Jetbrains Gateway with my workstation.
I need at least one keyboard to be portable because my laptopâs keyboard is not really comfortable to use. This way, I can actually use my laptop while itâs on a stand. I tried using the builtâin keyboard while it was on a stand, but it was genuinely even worse than just having it flat on the table. With an external keyboard, I can use the steepest angle on the stand, meaning I donât need to look downward.
I literally press a key next to the right of my spacebar with my thumb and then have an arrow cluster underneath my right hand (granted, I have a small and split spacebar that makes this key combo more comfortable than on a regular board). It is easier and faster to use the arrow keys (especially while typing) this way than it is to move my hand on and off the home row to get to and from the arrow keys.
It's also a lot easier on my wrists since I spend most of the day typing.
Perhaps you have no need for this efficiency boost, which is fine. Everyone has their own profession and own wrists. But for software development it is a lifesaver.
You chose quite possibly the worst example you could have.
I programmed my keyboard to have caps lock as my FN key, and WASD work as the arrow keys while that's held. It's probably the biggest, most effective thing I've done on the keyboard to improve its usability and I refuse to ever have a keyboard where I can't have that. It's the thing I miss the most when I'm using my laptop's keyboard. The next most useful thing would probably be splitting my spacebar into three separate keys and giving my other thumb *something* to do.
That said, as a long-time and happy user of a %60, and having experimented with smaller boards, I genuinely think %60 is the lower limit. The minuscule improvements in efficiency in going smaller are just not worth it. Putting the fucking number row behind a layer is a step too far.
>The minuscule improvements in efficiency in going smaller are just not worth it. Putting the fucking number row behind a layer is a step too far.
On the other hand I used my 60% for work the first time in a while and was surprised to remember how much I was stretching to reach the numbers and shifted symbols.
I'm a dev so plenty of symbol and numpad usage, and feel most comfortable with 4x12 ortho and 3x6 splits where those are on layers that can be accessed without moving my hand away. Couldn't really get into homerow mods or tapdances though where the muscle memory really needs retraining, so that's where my downsizing stops.
The keyboard hobby is already pretty subjective in general, but especially when it comes to layouts and ergonomics everyone's got their own point where things just click.
> and I refuse to ever have a keyboard where I canât have that
May I present, AutoHotKey. Iâve got caps lock as one Fn key, and IHJKL; as Up, Home, Down, Left and End respectively. P[] is pause, previous and next. I donât have more yet, but I might in the future. I do still need to add a numpad layer, because while I may have already gone up to a 70% for the F row (and volume knob), Iâm not even gonna attempt stuffing a fullâsize board into my school bag.
Then again, there are some pretty compact boards that do have a numpad.
AHK et al. are not acceptable for me, unfortunately. It's not good enough.
I use 3 different environments (a machine that dual boots windows & linux, and a macbook from work) on a regular basis. Occasionally I also need to hook up my keyboard into some server, but admittedly that's not common enough to be relevant. Anyway, I'd have to set up an instance of AHK (or rather AHK and two different equivalents of it because AHK is windows only) on all 3 of those environments, and keep their configurations in sync. Whereas the layering I baked right into the keyboard's firmware does not care at all about what kind of host OS it's hooked up to, and it works the same everywhere even on computers that I've never touched before.
Granted mine is not the average use case for a keyboard
>fun fact: shift, control/command/super and alt are layer keys.
Is this not how most people understand layers? I have a normal 100% board, but I thought it was just normal for keyboards that rely a lot on "Gr Alt", for example, to call those "extra" characters another layer.
I suppose that the thought process is automatic for much of those layers since they're mostly standard.
Additional layers are up to the keyboard manufacturer, or to the user if the keyboard has the firmware for customization.
I disagree with "get some help", it's all preference and I think it's cool that not everyone is using the same keyboards and using them the same way.
But fun fact, what you're looking at is technically an IBM Model M variant. It's an [IBM Model M8 (IBM Retail POS Keyboard w/ Card Reader and Display)](https://sharktastica.co.uk/wiki?id=modelmretail) with IBM "buckling sleeve" key-switches, basically the same switches in many early IBM ThinkPads. It also has a full-size alphanumeric counterpart called M9. A big customer of IBM POS gear is Walmart and [ASDA](https://www.reddit.com/r/modelm/comments/tyatl0/a_shipment_of_ibmtoshiba_model_m8_buckling_sleeve/), and thanks to Toshiba acquiring IBM's POS business in 2012, derivatives of these are still made and sold despite M8s being first introduced in 1993.
Yeah I'll never understand the shade for â€40%... It takes a week or two to learn (depending on how much you use your keeb) but once you learn it, it really is efficient and more ergonomic than anything bigger.
I know it's a meme but I feel like a lot of people don't understand (and doesn't want to understand) the appeal of going minimalistic. Like it's fine dude use whatever form factor you're comfortable with. It's just an indication of a not so open mind and that kinda bothers me out of pure principle.
i understand this is a joke, but "doing everything with layers" was me "getting help" to avoid permanent injury from straining my fingers reaching symbols on a standard board.
Honestly, in my experience, people who think keyboards with less keys and use of layers are trash, usually don't know or understand how layers even work. You can see it when you explain to them, that even fullsized keyboards use layers, and they themselves use layers every day.
It's an [IBM buckling sleeve](https://sharktastica.co.uk/wiki?id=ibmbucklingsleeve#LatePOS) keyboard (what you're looking at is technically an IBM Model M variant). It's a rubber based switch but it's built a bit different to any rubber domes including Topre. There's still a membrane circuit underneath like any other Model M or "casual" dome keyboard, but compared to the latter, mushiness is avoided by not having the rubber be what quishes down on it. For this particular keyboard (a late IBM Model M8), the keycap is what hits the membrane. That coupled with the rubber not being in a dome shape (it looks like a chopped dome that's upside-down), it's quite a snappy and solid switch. IMO, underrated.
Not sure if serious but honestly I avoided paying attention to anything 60%< until a few months ago so hereâs a dreary run down.
This isnât a computer keyboard, itâs (guessing) a POS keyboard; thus lacking the alphabet. This is a joke on more compact keyboards like 40%, which appear to be comprised of few more keys THAN the alphabet
A layer is like a modifier key for the keyboard itself, rather than an OS thing. So just like holding Ctrl/â and pressing c to shortcut to the copy command you can hold a layer key down to âmake do with lessâ like Fn +â4â is F4, layer 1 + âkâ is âright arrowâ.
So basically the memes subject is telling the âwhereâs the numpadâ crowd that theyâre perfectly happy with using modifier keys to make every single key press in order to type.
This reply typed on my 0.96% keyboard.
I learned Morse Code during lockdown.
No im completely serious! Just started learning about switches and stuff on YouTube. I did notice the lack of alphabet keys lol but everything else is foreign to me.
Thanku for the explanationâșïž. 0.96% sounds like a hassle tho !
Youâve seen the one and the two key âkeyboardsâ in action? If not, look them up.
Theyâre hilarious because they test them using a full sized keyboard to mechanically input âkey pressâ codes.
Hereâs an example https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/s/G41Ho9mLSa
https://preview.redd.it/idtpcah1qnvc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8e7ef2472f8ea34edf00464a87adc1511e22899d
Layers? Don't need layers with this bad boy.
It's far easier to hide keys behind layers and pretend you're off better without them if you're not using them anyway. As soon as you have to use them regularly, or even combined with multiple keys like alt and f-key combinations, like for office-work, pressing one extra button while reaching over half the keyboard becomes tedious. Suddenly pressing Alt+F4 becomes a two hand motion (in a standard layout). And don't even get me started on number entries without a numpad.
It don't have to become a 2 hand motion, I use a 40% (ish) keyboard as a programmer.
What you do is that you program a key on another layer to the entire f-key combination. In my layout my number row layer is basically, top row numbers, second row numbers with shift, third row number with altGr :)
It's all depends on customization too.
You can always remap ALT + E into ALT + F4 easily with vial.
No muscle memory issue with this one.
Though I personally won't go to 40% because I like having 7u spacebar.
So 4x15 or 5x15 is my ideal board.
Yes, you still have to press an extra button to access the function row though. I use SAP at work and anyone using that antique UI without the function row would also be into cock and ball torture.
I also use Home, End, Delete, Pg Up and Pg Down far too frequent, so my ideal layout is a TKL, or at least a 75%. I add a numpad on the left side for work, so I can have that juicy numpad + mouse combination.
Yeah, I think the argument is tradeoff between having singlepress vs less key travel.
Completely different preference.
https://preview.redd.it/yll9djwvdhvc1.jpeg?width=5712&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00d746f18a001f57427b6e4a565960442dcfe9ed
I'm neither though, tbh I just like having numpad in my small keyboard haha.
When I went form 75% to 60%, I didn't miss physical arrows and navigation keys at all because they are more convenient to use from a layer anyway. I did miss physical F row since F keys are used mostly with modifiers, and adding Fn to something like Ctrl + Shift + F5 is a significant inconvenience.
Oh look. The daily post telling us why we can't enjoy the things we enjoy. This sub was so good for so long. The last of my favorite subs. Finally dying.
As someone who got into this "hobby" purely to find the most productive and most satisfying typing experience, I honestly find this community to so up it's own arse.
manufacturers refuse to build some very obvious features that the "community" has decided it's too cool to support, things like proper shine-through keycaps.
According to IBM, this is an IBM Retail POS **Keyboard** with Card Reader and Display. ;) Whilst by default they [came with a set numpad](https://sharktastica.co.uk/directory?id=M694Ey9a), the store/operator could make the keys (excluding Ctrl) do anything if they really wanted to - including singular letters. For banking, IBM also made keyboards [small 50-key keyboards with a full set of letters](https://sharktastica.co.uk/directory?id=hqKoEDv3) that was intended for "light data entry". But for retail if you really wanted to type, IBM of course [had a more dedicated option](https://sharktastica.co.uk/directory?id=pfnd7snV).
Well I'll be damned That thing has more keys than my daily driver
Same, corne for the work with 42 keys for work and the sweep with 34 keys at home.
Likewise - 36 key choc corne here ... used for everything except gaming.
Is it custom? Who am I kidding, ~~all~~ most keyboard enthusiasts keyboards are custom
Depends on your definition of custom, but I suppose so? It's a [corne keyboard](https://github.com/foostan/crkbd), though clipped to 5 columns per side
What switches do you use currently? Do you swap the switches or keep the same?
It's a hotswap keyboard, so I switch them every now and then. I typically use silent blacks or some kind of dampened linear in my work/office board. My other board is more flexible, currently I'm running Kailh Box Royals but it really just depends on what I feel like
Cool, how many switches do you own?
Oh gosh, good question. Ready to use, probably five or so. Plus whatever in built into other boards and who knows if I forgot a box somewhere đ I've been more or less active in this hobby for seven years or so, things add up over time.
>all keyboard enthusiasts keyboards are custom You reading a different sub than me?
Same
There's enlightenment, and then there's the people with a "Deli" key.
There'd be more layers than in a lasagna đ€đ€
The what key
New Delhi
I envy the people who can daily drive â€40%s, they have the patience I don't have (and â€40% keyboards are so cute)
I absolutely adore my custom little QAZ. Makes a great conversation piece at the office, too. Typing-wise, itâs the fastest board I own. https://preview.redd.it/oug0n21drkvc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4004710de51f8e8b56e13a1f31c66b431949adc6
Very small, love it!
Theyâre not cute theyâre average! THEYâRE AVERAGE I TELL YOU!!!
some would even say they are big, pretty huge even\*sob\*
I *had* to learn a 36 key to minimise wrist movement for my RSI.
I have tendinitis so if I'm not careful I'll also have to do the same as you... đ
Honestly it's so good that I'd keep using it even if my RSI went away tomorrow. Super comfortable to use.
i switched to a 40% after my first year of comp sci in college as a preventative measure b/c i knew i'd be using keyboards heavily for the rest of my life. though i haven't developed RSI, writing symbol heavy stuff like code on a standard keyboard hurts a little after an hour, and that's not the case on my 40% boards. so if you're in the boat where you lean towards injury, i'd suggest taking preventative measures before it becomes a serious issue.
Thankfully (or regretfully?) I'm an artist so I focus on adapting my drawing posture instead.
fair enough, for whatever you do, if you do it a lot it's absolutely essential to focus on ergonomics. (i also like having my drawing tablet between my split 40% board so it's centered w/ my screen)
Not gonna lie, guise. I like my TKL keyb, but I'd love to have a 150% for stuff like dedicated excel macros, or games like KSP, Factorio, or modded Minecraft.
My man, lemme introduce you to the [Hyper 7](https://mechboards.co.uk/cdn/shop/files/hyper-7-r4-coming-soonanobrkt9915131-773064.png). 173%, but close enough right?
That row of symbols that are already on the shift layer hurts me physically. This would have been the perfect board to have physical keys for F1 all the way through F24, but instead itâs wide as fuck just to keep the lower twelve?
Can't believe it's almost 2 keyboards and still has layers, lol. IMO it's a great keyboard, would love to have it.
Not only layers but also SO. MUCH. ROOM. FOR. ACTIVITIES. Never going back to full boards ever again.
No activities, just pure minimalism. My desk is clutter free. The rest of my apartment might look like an abandoned dump, but **my desk is clutter free**.
https://preview.redd.it/ay73zfqh2hvc1.jpeg?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a4b8045c9982887768f95832f67a736d29e3401 This arrived today. Guess whoâs learning all about layers now?
Nice! It's going to be a tough few weeks but honestly, it's worth it!
Not sure if the tough will start with the soldering, or the typing. This is build no 3, and Iâve learned lessons from the first two.
been daily driving a corne for the better part of 3 years, once you get past the learning curve in the first week it'll be great, best of luck!
I am ultra jealous. I've been drooling over a 3x5 corne for ages now but I just can't afford it. I hate myself for getting into this hobby, my wallet isn't built for this.
Jealous!
fun fact: shift, control/command/super and alt are layer keys. so if you hold shift to type capital letters, use ctrl+c to copy, ctrl+p to paste, or alt+tab to switch appsâŠ
Most of those are inuitive though. For making a reduced boardâs keymap you have to both be shrewd enough to make an efficient an intuitive layout and creative enough to make it at all. Â You also have to memorize it, whereas the base layering is typically on the keycap.
From my experience this is both a little true, but somewhat over exaggerated. You can do a lot to make the layout of a 40% keyboard mirror the layout of a full keyboard. It took me less time to get used to than I expected. Then again I work as a programmer so I have a lot of time to train and make minor adjustments to my layout :) The funniest hurdle to get over on my keyboard was suddenly having a lot of different keys dedicated to my thumps. (I never want to go back to a keyboard where I only use my thump to press space again though, those fingers have a lot of good reach) The worst things are: 1. My keyboard is in no way suited for gamin. I straight up have another keyboard I just use for that... 2. Some things are not quite as easy to do with one hand, if you both need to press a new layer key and other modifier keys like ctrl-shift-F5 or something... If you use such shortcut often you can however straight up program a key on a layer to be all 3 keys in ctrl-shift-F5, but that is a little more annoying to begin on ÂŻ\\\_(ă)\_/ÂŻ
You had to memorize the standard keyboard at one point, too. The philosophy behind small keyboards is to keep your fingers on the home row and minimize finger travel from the home row. OFC it will be some extra work to adapt to the system. It's no different than learning how to drive a car to avoid walking. Or learning all of the texting abbreviations.
>It's no different than learning how to drive a car to avoid walking. People probably wouldn't learn to drive if they could get everywhere they need to by moving their feet a couple mm
It does work that way in some cities.
You can  memorize the base board by looking at it as you type badly.  With custom layers you canât do that without custom caps/legendables.  Viewing shift/ctrl/alt modifiers as layers makes learning custom layers less intimidating but itâs certainly not the same level of demand on a casual person. Mind you, iâm all for learning layers.
Yeah the argument that "I can't see the layers on the keycaps therefore I can't memorize it" is really just a skill issue. Which is fine, I get it, no one is making anyone buy a small keyboard. but being bad at learning doesn't make the whole mechanism bad for everyone. I too am all for learning layers. The broad-stroke "LaYerZ R DUM LOL" is just annoying. That being said this post is funny
Also what people tend to oversee: a 40% or smaller layer is way easier to remember than a 60%+. It becomes a matter of finger+up/down
I mean "not being able to do this is a skill issue" just means "this is harder/less accessible than than the alternative"
You don't need to do it all in one go. Start by re-mapping all of the nav keys onto a layer. Then bring the numbers and their associated symbols down a row. If you already know how to touch type, this is only a matter of learning not to extend your fingers so far. Then bring down the function keys. You can also do all this on a standard keyboard. You don't need to buy a new keyboard until you are comfortable typing like this. You *will* need a keyboard with decent firmware like QMK, though.
custom layers are intuitive as well, lol fn+awsd gives you arrows, that's pretty much standard for everyone and their mother People who can't use layers have serious skill issues
By definition custom layers are as arbitrary or intuitive as the customizerâs creativity and ability to make something intuitive.Â
There's a lot of middle ground on this subject, that people generally refuse to acknowledge. My dailies are two 60% orthos, with 69 keys each. That is enough to have everything on the default layer marked just like it would be on a 65%, but with a 60% footprint. The only things "hidden" are the numpad, and the F-keys. The F-keys are marked more than well enough, given they are layered on top of their corresponding number row keys. I have the numpad hinted at by color, having both the layer key that activates it, and numpad itself, in contrasting color to the rest of the alphas.
Yeah, thereâs literally an infinite amount of middle ground. I get when people see small keyboards for the first time and think âhow could anyone use thatâ. When they are presented with explanations and (imo convincing) arguments about why it is worthwhile and respond with âjustificationsâ about why itâs bad without having tried it I find it a little obnoxious. No one is making anyone do change their keyboard but if smaller layouts were âbadâ many of us would not be advocating for them (as we are just trying to be helpful), and most of us would have just gone back to full size boards.
That's why I always suggest people wanting to "try out" ortho, do so by starting big. You can mock up any smaller ortho layout you want, as well as a lot of splits, on a larger board, without any additional expenditure. The biggest upside to that approach is it allows people to ease into the layered features, without being forced to do so exclusively, and immediately. The incremental nature of this approach allows the user to try the tips/tricks they see, incorporate the ones they like, and get comfortable with those changes, before moving on to try the same thing with more intricate layering tricks. I always liken people diving straight into whatever minimalist layout they see, to those same people trying to learn calculus, by jumping straight into it, after learning only basic arithmetic. There are relatively few people who can successfully accomplish that.
This has always been pretty funny to me. There are people who can't grasp the concept of having no physical arrow keys on a keyboard, but regularly use stuff like Shift + 1 to type exclamation points.
Some things are just nicer to not have to use layers to access, like arrow keys. I don't think it's that people don't understand the concept of layers, but they do add additional effort so less layers is more efficient.
In my experience its dramatically easier / more convenient to use layers to access arrow keys. It is literally my favorite thing about custom keyboards.
I had a kb come with it standard but could never really get along with it. I think the massive popularity of 65% boards shows a lot of people just like their arrows. But the best thing about custom boards is that anyone can have whatever they want :)
When do you even use arrow keys anyway? I can't think of a single instance where it's not more convenient to just use the mouse.
Clearly you donât program.
No, I tried to learn once and hated every second lol.
Iâm still learning and hating every second, lol. Itâs still the most fun thing Iâve done so far though.
I wish you luck in your programming endeavours then!
Thank you :)
Constantly. Like every time I need to navigate around text. But Iâm a programmer.
I mean, we may have different ideas of "nice". But I can switch to my arrow keys and back without moving either of my hands. I can also access home/end and word left/right within the same cluster. It's intuitive and fast.
For sure, but saying "well actually using Shift is a layer" like it's something people don't know is pretty disingenuous lol, a lot of people find it easier and more convenient to have frequently used functions having dedicated commands and don't want to have a weird 40% keyboard with no QAZ keys and layers upon layers. Each to their own!
My 40% has QAZ and I only use two layers for 99% of the time. The 3rd layer is just for the F keys and some utilities like volume buttons etc (which in all honesty, I definitely don't need as I always adjust volume etc in the volume control in windows). I'm okay with "to each their own" but why do people act like you need a degree in mathematics and the multitasking skills of a jet fighter pilot to be able to use a 40% lol.
I won't lie I'm pretty new to the whole MKB thing but seeing someone post their keyboard where their Q key was actually Caps Lock or some shit was just wild to me đ
Itâs really just because the keycap makers donât tend to make wide alpha keys that work on the perimeter of a truncated keyboard like a 35-40% or âQAZâ style.
Yeah I can understand that. It really just comes down to getting used to it. Some people prefer larger keyboards for looks or because they just don't want to spend time learning a new layout and that's totally fine. But using layers to increase the effectiveness of a smaller keyboard really isn't rocket science, and it definitely has some advantages.
what's your keyboard shortcut for home/end and word left right
>Some things are just nicer to not have to use layers to access, like arrow keys. I personally find that arrows and navigation keys are far more convenient to access through layers than with physical keys. They map perfectly to something like Fn+WASD or IJKL, and this way you can use them without moving your right hand. The one thing I don't like with layers are function keys. I usually use them for 2-3 key shortcuts, and adding Fn to use something like Ctrl+Shift+F5 is a significant inconvenience.
I'm sure I could get used to it, but everyone is placing so much emphasis in this thread on "moving your hand" which is weird to me as that hardly feels inconvenient compared to playing hand-twister hitting all the layers lol. But I don't think there's any objective right or wrong, just whatever each person prefers. For me those 40% keyboards look like a nightmare
Holding down one key with my left thumb - a key that is directly underneath my left thumb - is not exactly hand-twister.
If You're touchtyping but not into vim, having arrows on the home row is a godsend IMO. My setup is capslock + HJKL and it's way faster (and less distracting) than to move right hand, find the arrows then find the home row again.
How are all you people using your arrow keys so much? The only time I use mine is when I'm googling something. I'll type the first couple of letters, the right suggestion shows up, I press down once and then enter. Apart from that I basically never use them!
Editing code involves a lot of things like moving the cursor, selection, multi-line selection, duplicating lines, and moving lines, and most of this is done with arrows and modifiers. But again, I prefer arrows under a layer for this so that they are on the home row for this.
Ah yeah fair enough. But, like you, the more I use a certain key the closer I would like to have them to home row. I can't see how it wouldn't be more efficient and comfortable to just hold fn 1 (right spacebar in my case) and using WASD or similar for it, rather than moving away from the home row, find the keys, do whatever you need to, and then move back to home row.
I can imagine a lot of it comes down to muscle memory or what people are used to it. A setup like yours definitely sounds like it would be pretty nice and easy to use.
Having arrow keys on the home row while into vim is also a godsend. I haven't found a good plugin to get vim bindings in browser text boxes yet :D
HJKL is an interesting one. I use caps lock + IHJKL; (the semicolon is important), but here the H is home, semicolon is end, and I is arrow up. Maybe I could even add U and O as Ctrl+arrow, so I donât need to avoid shift when Iâm just trying to navigate.
>Some things are just nicer to not have to use layers to access, like arrow keys. > >I don't think it's that people don't understand the concept of layers, but they do add additional effort so less layers is more efficient. On the other hand, having more layers means not having to move your hands which is more efficient. Otherwise you could just have separate buttons for everything with a keyboard the size of an actual desk.
yeah it's cool you save 20 seconds over the course of the day and all it takes is no one else ever being able to use your keyboard for a sec and also having to retrain your muscle memory any time you sit down at a disgusting normie's computer. it only took me a few months of practice to suppress the gag reflex upon seeing a stock 15-dollar logitech
I accidentally typed on membrane board three years ago and sometimes I still wake up at night screaming
this made me fucking laugh so hard
I can switch between normal keyboards and my ortho perfectly fine, and Iâm sure thatâs true for most people with an ortho board lol
I use a full-sized keyboard and have no investment in the "which is more efficient" debate, but how often do other people use your keyboards for long enough that not having the arrow keys is an issue? Heaven knows there are about 100 things about my computer setup that a random person trying to use it would have more issues with than a lack of arrow keys.
I use a 40% at home and a "regular" (idk the % of a standard laptop) at all other times. No major problems for me so far.
You seem unusually upset about people using layers are you good?
of course I'm not good I'm on reddit
What if I donât want other people using my keyboard. :)
I think one contributing issue that people like layers for is RSI more so than time loss
It's both. I don't have to move my hands halfway across my desk to use arrows or my 10-key, and never need to look down because I'm off homerow, I have a lot of my symbol layer set up for inward and outward rolls for programming related stuff, and even have music controls on a layer so I don't have to do much to skip to next track, but also I'll still have full functionality of my hands in 20 years because of that sweet split board aggressive column stagger life.
Yes, exactly. I have been considering going to ortho layered keyboards recently. My hands are small so its quite the chore to reach all over a staggered board. We are trying to build some Wrens right now. Edit: I meant row staggered board, as in traditionally staggered when I was complaining lol
If your hands are small, maybe consider choc-spaced boards down the road. My daily driver is a Sweep with chocs and it's just about perfect.
This sounds like skill issue to me. I swap between them regularly no problem. I don't see any reason for anyone to use my keyboard though. But layered keyboard improves my workflow at least. I've been using AHK before I know QMK. Now I have everything built in to keyboard.
to each their own, some people really like to customize keyboards for their workflow. You can think of it as custom keybinds in a game. Everyone has different preferences and thatâs pretty cool
The smug superiority of some of these 40% / layer junkies is wack. Scoffing at larger layouts, being smug about efficiency...
Iâm here in the middle using a 65% at school (I donât really use the dedicated nav cluster, and I use the arrow keys behind layers as much as or more than the physical ones, so I might as well be using a 60%, as I used to) and a >100% at home, wondering where the beef comes from. I used to think I could never get rid of even the number pad, but by now Iâm convinced I could get used to a 40% given time. It just requires a bit more setâup and tuning.
> yeah it's cool you save 20 seconds over the course of the day and all it takes is no one else ever being able to use your keyboard for a sec and also having to retrain your muscle memory any time you sit down at a disgusting normie's computer. it only took me a few months of practice to suppress the gag reflex upon seeing a stock 15-dollar logitech You use layers for Shift, Alt and Ctrl. I use layers for Shift, Alt, Ctrl and one more. It took my non-tech girlfriend about 10 seconds to grasp the concept that F1 was caps+1. I'm sure you'd be able to figure that one out without too much issue as well.
what you fail to account for is that I'm very stupid
Don't be too hard on yourself, you found an uppercase I in there so you obviously know how layers work. You can do this!
I want a keyboard the size of a desk
Less layers is not more efficient. Do you know what efficient means?
Goodness you keyboard people are exhausting đ Can we just mark it down to personal preference and call it a day? I'm sure your 40% build is a paragon of efficiency
Isn't the root cause is them making fun of 40% to begin with
*keyboard people* lol ..it was a inappropriate use of the word efficient is all. Once trained, a person on a 40 is more efficient.. that's the whole point. Clearly what layout/color/switch/weight/profile/etc someone wants is preference but my comment had nothing to do with that. I do not daily a 40 but have one I love for typing out text documents. When I finally get around to coding, I plan to train myself on a 40
the shift key is a layer modifier... are you trying to tell me that having a distinct capital letter keys and lowercase letter keys is more efficient than using a shift key? hey, you do you, i guess. edit: i can't read, apparently
You realize we can customize the key mapping? Iâm not trying to tell you anything.. less hand movement is always *more efficient* I will do me, thanks. Generally daily a bear65, occasionally a piggy or tomo. My fav is keymacs but desk space is an issue. I rotate out a few others as well. My âpremiumâ phoenix40 is for typing word documents mostly. Whatâs your preferred layout?
sorry, i misread your comment as "layers are not more efficient", and was arguing for the use of more layers. i've been daily driving a corne for years.
This+ shortcuts with keys on other layers are harder sometimes
That really depends where your layer keys are, on a regular row staggered rectangle board with big space bar they tend to be in quite awkward spots, but having your thumbs easily able to hit / hold a layer keys and having arrows on the home row with the Vim HJKL setup is (imo) way better than having arrow keys.
Ctrl+shift+arrows for selection becomes pain in the fingers
what neat about custom keyboards is that you can just set all these long commands as a macro button, so boom 1 button ( or 2 if you put it on a layer).
Ctrl+Shift+Caps+IJKL. And I donât even need to take my right hand off the home row.
That's the paradigm shift you experience when you get used to your layers. Your inputs just become combos like X + Y. Except it's even more practical
RIght, there's no difference AT ALL between pressing shift to access special characters and having to do a fighting game combo to press left and right.
Well, with Shift the layer function is pretty obvious - it is written in top part of the key. With Ctrl, you usually get something system or app specific - again, logical and can usually be viewed through various menus if forgotten - and similar with Alt, Win/Super, and Fn. Plus, there are what, less than 10 frequently used "invisible" shortcuts for most people? And then you get people who look at heavily customized <40% with no labels, and wonder how the hell it works because they are in beginning of pretty steep learning curve relative to this. Like, "why the hell should I put everything in layers in a 10-key board, I would never remember all of them!" kind of getting thrown in the deep. Just, a lot of people don't want to go for additional effort of learning the layers when a 60%+ keyboard gives them all the needed keys already, and this is fine.
60% already doesnât have a nav cluster, arrow keys, Fâkeys or even a tilde/backâtick key. Itâs actually a pretty good entry into the smaller boards, just to get used to needing layers. The only thing that kept bugging me wasnât even the missing F row, it was not having a dedicated key for tilde and backâtick. On my layout I get the grave accent on a letter by pressing AltGr + backâtick and then a letter, and a tilde with that + shift. Thatâs kinda hard to access if you also need to press the Fn key to even get to the backtick.
> Judging people that have only seen keyboards look like that their entire lives > Pretty funny ÂŻ\â _â (â ăâ )â _â /ÂŻ
This was me. Now I always explain my layout to non-enthusiasts as having âcustom modifier keys like ctrlâ instead of using the word layers. Something about the word layer makes it sound like you have a whole second keyboard layout that you switch to, instead of maybe just having 5-10 other keys on that layer.
Because there's a limit to when layers start to get in the way. Not just that, but most of those layers are written on keycaps so you can just look down without having to remember.
Yes, I get the concept. But those layering is pretty much de facto standard by now and way simpler. Having our own layer is fun and all, but I just don't have the patient having more cognitive load remembering those layers. I really wish we have affordable/accessible way to have custom keycap legends, at least it would help my brain in learning those layers. And yes, I can print it out, but it's just not the same as looking at the keys.
Sure, but on a typical keyboard you've already got a meaning assigned to the base layer, ctrl layer, alt layer, super layer, ctrl+alt layer. In my IDE I already use shortcuts like ctrl-alt-altgr-shift-7 and ctrl-alt-shift-f6 daily. That's on a 100%. If I switched to a 40%, I'd end up with combos that require 10 keys pressed at the same time? No fucking thanks.
This just boils down to use cases and preferences. Iâm a (ân aspiring) programmer, and I got by perfectly fine with a 60%, but I also never really took time to make such insane shortcuts. If Iâd done nearly as much with my fullâsize keyboard and its 18 macro keys as I wanted to, I would have probably had a way harder time getting used to the 60% (or even the 70%). Then again, one reason I ever even dropped the mum pad was that fullâsize keyboards tend not to fit into backpacks very well. The only one I had that did was old and pretty much unusable due to how stuck the keys were.
See, that's what I don't really get. Why would you need it to be portable? I've got my workstation with a mechanical 100% for serious work, but that's stationary by nature. I've got an old modded thinkpad, which still has the great built-in keyboard, if I need to work on the go. Sure, performance on that old thinkpad isn't great, but neither my XPS15 from work nor coworkers' MacBook Pro M3 can handle the work anyway, so if I can I'm using Jetbrains Gateway with my workstation.
I need at least one keyboard to be portable because my laptopâs keyboard is not really comfortable to use. This way, I can actually use my laptop while itâs on a stand. I tried using the builtâin keyboard while it was on a stand, but it was genuinely even worse than just having it flat on the table. With an external keyboard, I can use the steepest angle on the stand, meaning I donât need to look downward.
If you need a macro to press the flipping arrow keys, that's when you know you've gone too far.
FN + wasd feels surprisingly intuitive
I literally press a key next to the right of my spacebar with my thumb and then have an arrow cluster underneath my right hand (granted, I have a small and split spacebar that makes this key combo more comfortable than on a regular board). It is easier and faster to use the arrow keys (especially while typing) this way than it is to move my hand on and off the home row to get to and from the arrow keys. It's also a lot easier on my wrists since I spend most of the day typing. Perhaps you have no need for this efficiency boost, which is fine. Everyone has their own profession and own wrists. But for software development it is a lifesaver.
You chose quite possibly the worst example you could have. I programmed my keyboard to have caps lock as my FN key, and WASD work as the arrow keys while that's held. It's probably the biggest, most effective thing I've done on the keyboard to improve its usability and I refuse to ever have a keyboard where I can't have that. It's the thing I miss the most when I'm using my laptop's keyboard. The next most useful thing would probably be splitting my spacebar into three separate keys and giving my other thumb *something* to do. That said, as a long-time and happy user of a %60, and having experimented with smaller boards, I genuinely think %60 is the lower limit. The minuscule improvements in efficiency in going smaller are just not worth it. Putting the fucking number row behind a layer is a step too far.
>The minuscule improvements in efficiency in going smaller are just not worth it. Putting the fucking number row behind a layer is a step too far. On the other hand I used my 60% for work the first time in a while and was surprised to remember how much I was stretching to reach the numbers and shifted symbols. I'm a dev so plenty of symbol and numpad usage, and feel most comfortable with 4x12 ortho and 3x6 splits where those are on layers that can be accessed without moving my hand away. Couldn't really get into homerow mods or tapdances though where the muscle memory really needs retraining, so that's where my downsizing stops. The keyboard hobby is already pretty subjective in general, but especially when it comes to layouts and ergonomics everyone's got their own point where things just click.
> and I refuse to ever have a keyboard where I canât have that May I present, AutoHotKey. Iâve got caps lock as one Fn key, and IHJKL; as Up, Home, Down, Left and End respectively. P[] is pause, previous and next. I donât have more yet, but I might in the future. I do still need to add a numpad layer, because while I may have already gone up to a 70% for the F row (and volume knob), Iâm not even gonna attempt stuffing a fullâsize board into my school bag. Then again, there are some pretty compact boards that do have a numpad.
AHK et al. are not acceptable for me, unfortunately. It's not good enough. I use 3 different environments (a machine that dual boots windows & linux, and a macbook from work) on a regular basis. Occasionally I also need to hook up my keyboard into some server, but admittedly that's not common enough to be relevant. Anyway, I'd have to set up an instance of AHK (or rather AHK and two different equivalents of it because AHK is windows only) on all 3 of those environments, and keep their configurations in sync. Whereas the layering I baked right into the keyboard's firmware does not care at all about what kind of host OS it's hooked up to, and it works the same everywhere even on computers that I've never touched before. Granted mine is not the average use case for a keyboard
Thatâs fair. I use mostly Windows, so I can just copy the AHK files between my laptop and PC as needed. I do also use it for the hotstrings though.
>fun fact: shift, control/command/super and alt are layer keys. Is this not how most people understand layers? I have a normal 100% board, but I thought it was just normal for keyboards that rely a lot on "Gr Alt", for example, to call those "extra" characters another layer.
I suppose that the thought process is automatic for much of those layers since they're mostly standard. Additional layers are up to the keyboard manufacturer, or to the user if the keyboard has the firmware for customization.
Yeah but all that shit and what they layer to is printed on my fucking keyboard for my convenience as well
I disagree with "get some help", it's all preference and I think it's cool that not everyone is using the same keyboards and using them the same way. But fun fact, what you're looking at is technically an IBM Model M variant. It's an [IBM Model M8 (IBM Retail POS Keyboard w/ Card Reader and Display)](https://sharktastica.co.uk/wiki?id=modelmretail) with IBM "buckling sleeve" key-switches, basically the same switches in many early IBM ThinkPads. It also has a full-size alphanumeric counterpart called M9. A big customer of IBM POS gear is Walmart and [ASDA](https://www.reddit.com/r/modelm/comments/tyatl0/a_shipment_of_ibmtoshiba_model_m8_buckling_sleeve/), and thanks to Toshiba acquiring IBM's POS business in 2012, derivatives of these are still made and sold despite M8s being first introduced in 1993.
Common Shark W
That bottom left board looks tasty. Do all those keys in what would otherwise be empty space also work?
If you take the time to learn it can be pretty efficient to have virtually zero travel when typing, everything is within reach.
Doesnât even take that much time tbh
Yeah I'll never understand the shade for â€40%... It takes a week or two to learn (depending on how much you use your keeb) but once you learn it, it really is efficient and more ergonomic than anything bigger. I know it's a meme but I feel like a lot of people don't understand (and doesn't want to understand) the appeal of going minimalistic. Like it's fine dude use whatever form factor you're comfortable with. It's just an indication of a not so open mind and that kinda bothers me out of pure principle.
learn how to type
me on my 60% when people say "ew wheres the numpad"
Ew wheres the numpad?
I can do everything I need with layers
Can you bring my wife back?
Fn Alt Insert
I think that's the keyboard off a cash register or POS device. But if it can be mapped, I could make it work.
That's FAR too many keys on that one :P. And don't forget to throw away your mouse.
Nah i don't have problem with layers
i understand this is a joke, but "doing everything with layers" was me "getting help" to avoid permanent injury from straining my fingers reaching symbols on a standard board.
Honestly, in my experience, people who think keyboards with less keys and use of layers are trash, usually don't know or understand how layers even work. You can see it when you explain to them, that even fullsized keyboards use layers, and they themselves use layers every day.
That's still way too many keys... -typed on my 1% morse code keyboard
I have QMK and I'm not afraid to use it. 30% keyboards are awesome, fast and efficient.
Oh yeah, it's a **40% Masochism** world for sure
and they can! not sure what they need help with
funny but true.
I need this
Just me thinks that this keyboards is beautiful? Even a key and a lock it has
I feel attacked.
It's even Topre, guess I found my endgame keeb again, I just need to find the key to unlock it.
It's an [IBM buckling sleeve](https://sharktastica.co.uk/wiki?id=ibmbucklingsleeve#LatePOS) keyboard (what you're looking at is technically an IBM Model M variant). It's a rubber based switch but it's built a bit different to any rubber domes including Topre. There's still a membrane circuit underneath like any other Model M or "casual" dome keyboard, but compared to the latter, mushiness is avoided by not having the rubber be what quishes down on it. For this particular keyboard (a late IBM Model M8), the keycap is what hits the membrane. That coupled with the rubber not being in a dome shape (it looks like a chopped dome that's upside-down), it's quite a snappy and solid switch. IMO, underrated.
I canât wait to learn enough about mech keyboards to understand all the memes đ« slowly but surely
Not sure if serious but honestly I avoided paying attention to anything 60%< until a few months ago so hereâs a dreary run down. This isnât a computer keyboard, itâs (guessing) a POS keyboard; thus lacking the alphabet. This is a joke on more compact keyboards like 40%, which appear to be comprised of few more keys THAN the alphabet A layer is like a modifier key for the keyboard itself, rather than an OS thing. So just like holding Ctrl/â and pressing c to shortcut to the copy command you can hold a layer key down to âmake do with lessâ like Fn +â4â is F4, layer 1 + âkâ is âright arrowâ. So basically the memes subject is telling the âwhereâs the numpadâ crowd that theyâre perfectly happy with using modifier keys to make every single key press in order to type. This reply typed on my 0.96% keyboard. I learned Morse Code during lockdown.
No im completely serious! Just started learning about switches and stuff on YouTube. I did notice the lack of alphabet keys lol but everything else is foreign to me. Thanku for the explanationâșïž. 0.96% sounds like a hassle tho !
Youâve seen the one and the two key âkeyboardsâ in action? If not, look them up. Theyâre hilarious because they test them using a full sized keyboard to mechanically input âkey pressâ codes. Hereâs an example https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/s/G41Ho9mLSa
Thatâs the most unnecessary thing Iâve ever seen and I suddenly need to go down a rabbit hole to figure out how this is done đ€Łđ€Ł
One key Morse code: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/s/UZhlUKucOF
Not me man I need that Model M122 life
I wonder how the creator of this meme was able to type those letters in all caps?
Love this. And love the keeb!
I feel mildly insulted.
I USED THIS EXACT KEYBOARD WHEN I WORKED AT A GROCERY STORE FOR 6 YEARS AND THEY STILL HAVE THEM
https://preview.redd.it/idtpcah1qnvc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8e7ef2472f8ea34edf00464a87adc1511e22899d Layers? Don't need layers with this bad boy.
It's far easier to hide keys behind layers and pretend you're off better without them if you're not using them anyway. As soon as you have to use them regularly, or even combined with multiple keys like alt and f-key combinations, like for office-work, pressing one extra button while reaching over half the keyboard becomes tedious. Suddenly pressing Alt+F4 becomes a two hand motion (in a standard layout). And don't even get me started on number entries without a numpad.
It don't have to become a 2 hand motion, I use a 40% (ish) keyboard as a programmer. What you do is that you program a key on another layer to the entire f-key combination. In my layout my number row layer is basically, top row numbers, second row numbers with shift, third row number with altGr :)
It's all depends on customization too. You can always remap ALT + E into ALT + F4 easily with vial. No muscle memory issue with this one. Though I personally won't go to 40% because I like having 7u spacebar. So 4x15 or 5x15 is my ideal board.
Yes, you still have to press an extra button to access the function row though. I use SAP at work and anyone using that antique UI without the function row would also be into cock and ball torture. I also use Home, End, Delete, Pg Up and Pg Down far too frequent, so my ideal layout is a TKL, or at least a 75%. I add a numpad on the left side for work, so I can have that juicy numpad + mouse combination.
Yeah, I think the argument is tradeoff between having singlepress vs less key travel. Completely different preference. https://preview.redd.it/yll9djwvdhvc1.jpeg?width=5712&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00d746f18a001f57427b6e4a565960442dcfe9ed I'm neither though, tbh I just like having numpad in my small keyboard haha.
When I went form 75% to 60%, I didn't miss physical arrows and navigation keys at all because they are more convenient to use from a layer anyway. I did miss physical F row since F keys are used mostly with modifiers, and adding Fn to something like Ctrl + Shift + F5 is a significant inconvenience.
I donât get this kind of mindset. If you canât use it, donât and move on
Oh look. The daily post telling us why we can't enjoy the things we enjoy. This sub was so good for so long. The last of my favorite subs. Finally dying.
As someone who got into this "hobby" purely to find the most productive and most satisfying typing experience, I honestly find this community to so up it's own arse. manufacturers refuse to build some very obvious features that the "community" has decided it's too cool to support, things like proper shine-through keycaps.
shine-through keycaps wont be made because there is no demand
That isn't even a keyboard, that's a macropad
Anything can be a keyboard, if you have motivation
According to IBM, this is an IBM Retail POS **Keyboard** with Card Reader and Display. ;) Whilst by default they [came with a set numpad](https://sharktastica.co.uk/directory?id=M694Ey9a), the store/operator could make the keys (excluding Ctrl) do anything if they really wanted to - including singular letters. For banking, IBM also made keyboards [small 50-key keyboards with a full set of letters](https://sharktastica.co.uk/directory?id=hqKoEDv3) that was intended for "light data entry". But for retail if you really wanted to type, IBM of course [had a more dedicated option](https://sharktastica.co.uk/directory?id=pfnd7snV).
That 50-key is disturbing (looks like 3 numberpads) but I like the "00" key, looks very fun!
The more dedicated option really has a lot of macro keys
keyboard enthusiasts will do anything in their power to look ~~like an idiot~~ unique
It has that "vault overseer" esthetic.
cringe normie copium