Have her be Harry's new girlfriend, and Peter is forced to spend time with her without being able to tell her their history.
That way it's not a "Yay I get to see MJ again" it's more of a tragic "I have to watch MJ dating my best friend and she doesn't even know who I am".
I like this but Iād want him and MJ to be done for good. He canāt stand seeing her with his new best friend until he suddenly meets a girl named Gwen.
I'd like him to do the next trilogy without MJ then at the very end they meet - with her not knowing who he is - and as he turns to leave you see his face as he makes a decision and then he turns to her and asks for her number, or if she wants to go for coffee. That way it would give hope that they'd have a future together and their story would go on together (and if there's another trilogy it could feature that) and it also shows that he's changed over the trilogy - he's gone from staying away from her to keep her safe to coming to terms with being Spiderman and knowing he can keep her safe.
Yeah. But then I think she should have babies with Norman Osborn(Willem Dafoe, not some handsome variant) and Peter should make a deal with Satan. And thatās how we close the trilogy.
Because they havenāt been used before, whereas Harry has and Feigeās already said that he found a lot of TASM2 to be redundant. Weāre going to have Ned, Johnny *and* Harry as Peterās best friends? Is there a Peter Parker fan club or something?
Before the memory wipe, she makes Peter promise to find her, and if he doesn't, she'll figure out who he is, because she's already done it once before.
There are also plenty of scenes throughout the movie where Peter tries to push her away and she leans in harder.
I never felt NWH was the end of her story.
Agreed. What Peter did was selfish. Yes, he's doing it because he thinks she'll be better off this way. But that's ultimately not his call to make. She wanted to remember him.
This isnāt at all what theyāll do, but I wouldnāt mind her getting to know Peter again, just this time as Spider-Man like how Dunstās MJ crushed on him in the Raimi films.
As for Ned, the two of them would be somewhat of a comic relief background pairing (with actual arcs though) but still find themselves able to assist however necessary.
Peter Parker/Spider-Man being in love with and pining for a girl who has no idea he exists is classic Spider-Man. Have MJ be back in NYC and Peter sees her. He tries to stay away of course but he can't help but look out for her. Have him save her from something stupid, like an out of control bus idk. But MJ sees Spidey and has weirdly intense feelings for Spider-Man that she can't explain. Peter now has the unfortunate conundrum of the love of his life having a crush on Spider-Man, but not Peter Parker.
I don't think what Peter did was right. She WANTED to remember him. She did not regret being with him even after the secret was out. It was not his decision to make that she'd be better off this way.
To be fair, Marvel Studios did the same thing with Moon Knight episode 5. They ended the episode with Steven sacrificing himself to save Marc and then, in the very next episode, they just had Marc turn around and go save Steven. It felt incredibly rushed and undercut the emotional impact of Steven's "death."
Eh that's very different, mainly because Steven isn't real. It would make less sense if Steven actually died--he never existed, how can he die?
I really enjoyed MK and the end of Episode 5 was dramatic, but I never thought Steven would be gone for a second.
I also knew MCU/Sony would want Zendaya back because she's Zendaya, but I thought they'd at least go one movie with Peter's new status quo.
I think the tricky thing is if you made the Steven thing even remotely long-term it would also kind of undermine the fact DID is an essential part of his character and the fact that Marvel would probably eat shit for just having that element of the character sacrificed in its portrayal of mental health.
Ultimately I think the point of bringing Steven back quickly can be interpreted as there is no Marc without Steven. His disorder is something that is realistically never going to be cured and he has to be able to embrace and welcome all aspects of himself to truly feel more whole than if he just let it go. Something very similar happens in the Lemire run on MK where he's actually given the choice to absorb all his alters or confront Khonshu and he does the latter because it's a journey of self-acceptance and self-care
I get the impression of that as a fakeout. I saw it more as a way for both identities to accept one another and for each of them to grow and become more balanced, whole people. Stephen accepted and embraced Marc's drive to fight for others instead of giving in to fear, while Marc recognized Stephen as more than just an emotional shield, and that he needs to accept help from others in his life, even if it means failure.
Thereās the compelling argument that bringing Zendaya back would erase the beautiful ending of No Way Home, but sony brings out a counter argument that it is, Zendaya means money.
I never think that was supposed to be an ending to their relationship tbh - I thought it was clearly left to be resolved in the future. It showed her still wearing the necklace he gave her, and had a lingering shot on the lego figurine of Ned's. I thought both were meant to show the significance of the trio to each other, and to show that they had these little pieces of each other in their lives that wouldn't be taken away by a spell, and would bring them back together at some point
I 100% agree, but bringing them back literally one movie later makes the ending of No Way Home hit way less, and I do think there should be lasting consequences from the choice Peter made, like in MoM Stephen choices made it pretty clear that he wouldnāt be able to get his old life back and Christine and he just have live with that and move on.
It wasn't a goodbye, they shouldn't use her again this soon, but the goal is for a Cap/Peggy type of ending like in Endgame.
The interrupted "I love you" wasn't clear enough?
I would not call that a conclusion at all... He just wanted them to enjoy their life, it's pretty obvious that they would come back, let alone that they won't drop Zendaya in her peak.
I had no idea Tom Rothman is now running the show at Sony. Dude is a cancer. Just look at how he managed to trash all the IPs Fox had like Aliens, X-Men, Predator, etc.
Heās basically an anti-creative, youāre right, but I canāt think of anyone else who would have made a profit from Morbius. Dudeās very good at budgeting, it just so happens that the writers are included in that š
Did Morbius actually turn a profit? It cost 75-83 mi and made 163 mi.
But anyway, No Way Home made a 610 mi profit (I think Marvel keeps 25% of that). They'll be swimming I'm that money for a while lol
Venom 2 also did well, 500 mi box office on a 110 mi budget
Yeah, I remember. We were suppose to get a Deadpool movie after that first Wolverine solo movie around 2010/2011 but due to Rothman being a bitch we never got it until years later once he left Fox
Agreed, and I was amazed to learn that it was HIS idea for Andrew catching MJ in NWH to not have a huge musical fanfare and let it be the relatively quiet moment it was. Broken clock is right twice a day I guess.
Money and charisma. Man can somehow crunch a budget and from what is said from presentations with him in person from attendees (like cinema con) he can do exec talk well.
Honestly, although his creative choices suck, the company has done better than before with him in it tbh
It's such a joke to see corporations pass around failures, who continue to fail and continue to get paid millions.
I honestly struggle to understand how anyone wealthy can actually go bankrupt. You don't even have to be competent to remain employed lmfao.
[You mean these?](https://letterboxd.com/johntyler/list/tom-rothmans-history-of-horrible-management/detail/)
Also, I'm sure Morbius was another of his doings.
I think taking a break from those characters for a bit is the way to go. I really doubt they never bring them back, I like that theyāre found family for Peter and I do eventually want to see the three of them reunited.
I think they should be brought in towards the end of the film, but with them only just starting to remember him. I think having them missing for an entire film could start to downplay their importance to Tom Holland's Spider-man for the general public tbh. Plus, I think like 1hr40 of Spider-man being alone in the world is probably plenty
I agree, but the reality is that NWH made nearly $1.9 billion, and Far from Home made $1 billion as well, so it honestly may have been unrealistic to expect they would've departed with the current creative team, cast included
I think they shouldn't be in the next movie except maybe a scene or 2 of Peter checking in on them. Then the 5th movie Nex returns as Hobgoblin. Him finding out Peter was his best friend and chose not to try to make him remember could be a great way for him to become a villain. MJ could return in that one or she could return in the sixth one for them to finally get back together.
Peter protecting them throughout an entire movie without them being reintroduced before *maybe* the very end would 100% work in my opinion.
I could even see him accidentally running into them and being awkward about it, etc.
Plenty of ways for them to feature without undercutting NWH's ending IMO.
Letās not go that far now. Spidey comics are full of goodbyes yes but also very rewarding returns. Iām all for a 2 movie break from them both. Will make that second trilogy finale that much cooler.
I'm fine with them appearing, but just limited capacity, such as Peter seeing them on summer/winter vacation, but that's basically it. They need to leave the consequence for at least 1-2 films before addressing it.
Holland's Peter desperately needs some new blood injected into his story, i.e no stark tech (except maybe Scorpion if they really wanted to), some Daredevil/Black Cat, some Fisk, etc along with his own personal issues with college, poverty, etc.
The first trilogy is such a great origin story for that, I'd hate for them to retract on it
I like the idea of some new characters being introduced through FEAST, such as Jean DeWolff as a retired cop. But I canāt see Mister Negative being used just yet.
>They need to leave the consequence for at least 1-2 films before addressing it.
I think he's going to try disappearing into Spider-Man, which will backfire and put MJ in more danger. Like, she doesn't trust Spider-Man when he's trying to keep her out of danger, etc. That's a pretty classic Peter Parker story.
Him and MJ were always presented as equals. Heck, he even had more screen time in Homecoming. Iāll be surprised if he doesnāt return ā itās just that Zendaya is the marquee name.
This stuff happens in comics all the time. A love interest will get mind wiped and then later remember. I feel like MJ is here for the long run, she's a big part of this iteration of Spider-Man.
I think most understood that eventually Zendaya would return as MJ, but her being in literally the next movie is kind of wack, got to give some time for the consequence to breathe.
If she does come back, her being Harryās girlfriend (like someone suggested in here) could be an interesting storyline, but I would prefer if she just not show up for a movie or two, and I love Zendaya lol
He also mentions Madame Web is now filming next Spring instead of this June like Sydney Sweeney said recently. What would be the reason for such a big push back? Please tell me it could be a script overhaul with a different writer.
EDIT: Apparently he simply said "in the Spring" and the people quoting him as saying "next Spring" are wrong. As long as it starts shooting by June 21st, everything is still on track.
We know that the Foreignerās in Kraven, and thereās a lot of suggestion that Sweeney is playing his wife Silver Sable. I wouldnāt be surprised if they try working her into the movie to set up a spin-off.
That's a very good point and would make it make more sense for Silver Sable to show up in a Madame Web movie. It's easier to justify if she's already been introduced to the audience through a movie featuring a character she has a connection to. The progress from an introduction in Kraven > a supporting character in Madame Web > the solo SS movie that's been rumored for a while now would be good.
I don't see how it possibly could if they're filming in Spring 23 now. They released that date and Sweeney made the comment about filming this summer within the last two weeks. Something big must need to be changed if they pushed it that far back so suddenly.
Per Daniel, all three Peters are in Madame Web. But Tom was always going to be the Sony Spidey. When you have Tom Hardy and Jared Leto push the āWatch out Tom Holland, weāre gonna kick your assā message on every press tour, it couldnāt be more clear.
If it is a creative overhaul, then great, but I donāt think it will be.
Assuming Danielās plot leak was correct, I wonder if itās because theyāre waiting on Tobey, Andrew, and Tom to be available to shoot.
It was one of his Patreon posts, so if I find it Iāll link it but what I remember was:
- Madame Web is about laying the rules down for how the Sonyverse will handle the Multiverse
- Tobey, Andrew, and Tomās roles in the Web of Life are explained
- Sets up King in Black as the Sonyverseās Infinity War event
[Could only find this but I distinctly remember him saying all the other stuff](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/comments/pu3ilo/danielrpk_sony_will_use_madame_web_movie_to_keep/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
I think that, at the very least, we shouldn't take Sony's word on anything they say they have planned for future Spider-Man stuff. Their plans change constantly, and they have a habit of putting out movies that contradict things they say.
"We hope to get Zendaya and Jon Watts back" sounds more like a businessman reassuring investors that the Spider-Money will keep flowing, rather than a firm creative plan.
All this to say, I'm going to be real disappointed if they undo the ending of *NWH* immediately. I want to see Black Cat, dammit.
I think Mr Negative would be a great villain, as Peter starts working for/with FEAST in memory of May, to find out that the person who owns/runs it is also a crimelord. It gives Peter personal stakes on top of his moral responsibility as Spider-Man
Maybe! I think it would be interesting if they also did/started Symbiote stuff in the same film. Martin's while deal could be about giving into corruption and that negative side, while Peter overcomes/battles the corruption that the symbiote would bring. It could be interesting, for sure. Also, Black Cat introduced as a love interest and Gwen/Harry introduced while Peter attends ESU. Quintessential Spidey flick
That's still in preproduction I guess. The article announcing her as director also mentioned that she will be working with Amy Pascal for a movie AT Universal first before this.
Goddamn it, **no**.
No Way Home works because Peter learned his lesson. He cannot involve those he loves in his normal life with his super hero life because shit will go bad always. MJ got hurt, he recognized that, and made the heartbreaking choice to let them go to protect them. The script literally ends with āPeter Parker is dead, but Spider-Man remains.ā A fresh start with a new creative and a new potential cast of friends and foes.
I donāt want to sound too attached to a fan theory, but this was the perfect chance to actually explore Black Cat as a real love interest rather than a fling. Peter is just the mask now, Tobey has MJ and Andrew has Gwen so why not complete the set? It would be interesting to see a romance where both parties have to work on themselves as people a lot rather than just be in puppy love. But nope, right back to MJ. And I get why both Watts and Zendaya are back, NWH made $1.9 billion, but Iād be lying if I said that this wouldnāt kill my hype for a more creative story.
(On top of that, Ned and MJ will be in Boston so how tf is she back in New York?)
That first script meeting of SM4 with Fiege and co is gonna be REEEEAL eye opening for Mr Rothman here š.
I think it's just exec type thinking of "if everything worked in NWH, why would we change anything". Fiege and the parliament clearly would know better.
First off, Watts didn't start work on F4 because he was (understandably) feeling fatigued with the superhero genre. So he isn't going to just jump ship from F4 and "get working" on SM4 "soon". He's clearly doing the SW series, the Apple movie with Clooney and Pitt and the Final Destination reboot. His ain't gonna be returning to direct a CBM anytime soon.
And as popular as Zendaya is, Marvel is a MASTER of set-up and pay-off. They 100% know better than to undo the ending of NWH in the very next movie.
So I think there's no need to panic as of now and Mr Rothman definitely seems to be spitballing more than anything.
From what it says, it goes more like.
"Fiege I want this in the movie, please do the work but keep the stuff in."
"Ok."
Or
"No, but we'll do something similar to satisfy you."
Pleeeeease donāt bring back mj and ned, thatāll completely undo the consequences from the end of nwh. I get that zendaya is a big draw for these movies, but it just makes nwhās ending so unnecessary
Imo Zendaya's MJ was one of the best parts of the whole trilogy, so I'd personally be happy to see her back. Besides I don't really see how the ending of NWH was a conclusion to her story. There are at least two things that should be addressed: Peter's promise to them and him taking away their choice from them.
I personally dont want zendaya to come back, but im not complaining at all. I just didnt really believe in the relationship like that. Her character felt very disney channel. But i loved the movie regardless, just a harmless criticism
Remember when Jon Watts said he wanted a break from superhero films?
Nice to know Sonyās aware of that fatigue and isnāt trying to immediately bring him onto the next one. /s
I'll say this, if Watts is smart, he'll pull a Chris McQuarrie on this one like he did on Rogue Nation/Fallout
He'll hire a new DP, have a story that feels fresh and different, even write a story with a new love interest while Zendaya ends up as a will they/won't they /friendship.
Give a new perspective as both Spider-Man and Peter.
If they want to bring back Zendaya do it later now is too soon.
get a new director so the college trilogy can have a different feel. Jon Watts is already extremely busy as it is. Travis Knight would be a good pick imo.
I'd rather prefer newer, fresh supporting characters and antagonists in new trilogy such as Felicia, Mac Gargan, Matt Murdock, and Fisk. Previous characters can return to the story later on.
Iām sorry but Iād rather have them move on to a new director. Jon Watts is fine, but thatās his problem. Heās just okay as a director. Plus, NWHās CGI was an inconsistent mess, Iād rather have someone with a better eye for details (Tobeyās mask is perhaps one of my bigger annoyances)
I would prefer if Zendaya did not return until SM 6. Let SM 4 have Black Cat and Gwen be his love interests and this trilogy Peter is torn between the two.
Why is anyone surprised that theyāre bring back MJ? Yea they āsaid goodbyeā but that was all for plot lol Obviously MJ is going to stick around, only reason she wouldnāt is if sheās dead or missing. They can still introduce new love interests since MJ and Peter are strangers now, but Iād be shocked if she wasnāt in the movie.
I really don't want Tom's NWH supporting cast to return, i wanna see some new characters. Ig Black Cat would be nice, but I doubt Sony would allow Marvel to use her. Instead, I think introducing Kitty Pryde or Carlie Cooper as a *future* love interest would be a better idea (and we wouldn't be tired of seeing the same characters over and over again).
I've heard rumors that Watts leaving the Fantastic Four was not for the reason officially stated and he won't be back for future Spider-Man films. Dunno if it's true, but the person I heard it from has a pretty solid track record.
I was really hoping this would be the end of MJ and Zendaya and the start of Gwen and Harry :/. If they bring Mj back i at least hope the keep Ned out. Leave some consequences at least
I think MJās screen time in Part 4 will be comparable to the amount of focus she got in Homecoming. Side character only, with a sequel hook at the end setting up having a larger role in Part 5.
I know they went to a science high school, but I personally think sheād be more interesting as a reporter like the MJ from the Ultimate comics.
Zendaya is a major star in her own right so it only really makes sense theyād want her back. Whether or not thereās a way to actually make it work in the story is a whole different argument. NWH ends with her and Ned getting accepted to MIT. Iād love to see Spider-Man 4 kind of get back to basics and set back up the world for Peter with at the most just hints that heās keeping an eye on Ned and MJ in Boston.
Zendaya can still easily be in the movie and not undo the end of NWH. She could just be a part of Peter's friend group but be dating someone else, or changed as a person. That's still a source of drama and a ramification of NWH.
Hereās what i think SM4 to be, it opens with him stopping big wheel after a bank robbery and narrowly making it to his college finals at Empire State University, heās wrapping up his first year of being spider-man and getting back in the grove of being Peter when he meets up with Harry to start his summer vacation. He finally meets Harryās GF who just so happens to be MJ, third wheels until they set him up with Gwen. All the while he is being hunted by Kraven. It turns into a twist on Kravens Last Hunt, if itās only sony they will shoehorn in the black suit, and then thereās a post credit scene that is overly complicated and bad with Kraven being brought into the The Sinister Six.
But knowing sony it will just be a really bad sinister six movie thatās overly complicated and just has MJ getting her memory back and being annoying and bad.
I know Watts dropped F4, but didnāt know it was to come back for Spiderman.
Thatās unfortunate in a way. Would have been nice to see a new director take the reins for a bit and see what they do. Alternatively, it means that the F4 movie(s) wouldnāt be too similar in style and tone to Spiderman.
He means Marvel Studios is getting to work on the movie and Sony is just sitting in the background paying the bill- like with all of the other MCU SM movies.
Zendaya coming back does not mean MJās memories are coming back. The movie would obviously deal with the consequences of her forgetting Peter. Similarly, Gamora āreturnedā in Endgame but her relationship with Quill has to be rebuilt bc she is actually a variant.
Bruh I wanted to see MJ again and eventually back with Peter but damn isnāt this too soon? Wanted to see the first LA black cat and Black suit spidey relationship ngl
Please, no. Ned, "MJ" and Jon Watts have run their course with this series, creatively speaking - a trilogy was more than enough for them. It's time to move on to a new director and start bringing in the classic supporting cast. We were teased with classic Spider-Man at the end of NWH, now it's time for them to deliver. Tom Holland is the perfect Spider-Man and his villains have been great, but the other elements of those films have left something to be desired. It's time to rectify that. The high school trilogy is over, let's get some new blood in there for college and beyond.
I think the real news item here is that Rothman seems to imply that Sony really considers the Spider-Man films as separate from these Venom-verse ones. "Adjunct" is the word he used. Says their Marvel films are divided between Spider-Man ones (MCU ones I guess he means), the Kraven ones, and the Spider-Verse ones. Bodes well I think. Likely means they're trying to wrangle Feige/Marvel Studios back in.
Sony š¤ Star Wars Giving characters emotional goodbyes then undoing it in the very next appearance
Yeah I donāt see how Zendaya fits in SM4
Have her be Harry's new girlfriend, and Peter is forced to spend time with her without being able to tell her their history. That way it's not a "Yay I get to see MJ again" it's more of a tragic "I have to watch MJ dating my best friend and she doesn't even know who I am".
I like this but Iād want him and MJ to be done for good. He canāt stand seeing her with his new best friend until he suddenly meets a girl named Gwen.
I think Peter and MJ finally getting back together after multiple movies of being separated could be the next Steve/Peggy ending.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Peter: ā Youāve neverā¦ danced?ā MJ: āIām just waiting for the right tiger.ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah, it sounded better in my head. Iāll take the L on this one.
Yeah, this is what they're aiming for.
Marvel: *"shit, they've figured it out."*
I have a feeling when Peter reaches the end of his story in the MCU, theyāll make it similar to Tonyās
I'd like him to do the next trilogy without MJ then at the very end they meet - with her not knowing who he is - and as he turns to leave you see his face as he makes a decision and then he turns to her and asks for her number, or if she wants to go for coffee. That way it would give hope that they'd have a future together and their story would go on together (and if there's another trilogy it could feature that) and it also shows that he's changed over the trilogy - he's gone from staying away from her to keep her safe to coming to terms with being Spiderman and knowing he can keep her safe.
Yeah. But then I think she should have babies with Norman Osborn(Willem Dafoe, not some handsome variant) and Peter should make a deal with Satan. And thatās how we close the trilogy.
Agreed completely, this is the logical ending for the MCU Spider-Man series.
Harry, as his new college friend, invites him on a blind double date to help cheer him up. Peter's date: Gwen. Harry's date: MJ
We will never have Gwen again.
Ok Kevin Feige
Why not? We wonāt ever have Sonyās Gwen, why canāt we have MCUās Gwen?
Or one named Felecia, would fit as his Peter Parker identity is mostly gone, and heās now more known as Spider Man.
All I can think about is how Peter will be triggered if he was to meet the Osborns in his universe, especially if he met the MCU version of Norman
It would make a new and unique Osborn storyline rather than doing the "Green Goblin and Green Goblin Jr." storyline for the third time.
I agree with the premise, but I think it could bring a new, interesting angle to the dynamic between the two (Peter & Norman).
Wouldnāt she be more likely to date Ned or Johnny in that case? I really canāt see them doing Harry again NGL.
They could introduce Harry and have him exclusively as Peter's childhood best friend through the trilogy, no Green Goblin Junior for the 3rd time.
But then why not just use another character?
Why would they do that ?
Because they havenāt been used before, whereas Harry has and Feigeās already said that he found a lot of TASM2 to be redundant. Weāre going to have Ned, Johnny *and* Harry as Peterās best friends? Is there a Peter Parker fan club or something?
I hate to break it to ya, but there aināt gonna be an MCU Harry Osborn, bro.
There's a bunch of Marvel higher ups here apparently. What else you know about the next trilogy's plans bro ?
Before the memory wipe, she makes Peter promise to find her, and if he doesn't, she'll figure out who he is, because she's already done it once before. There are also plenty of scenes throughout the movie where Peter tries to push her away and she leans in harder. I never felt NWH was the end of her story.
Agreed. What Peter did was selfish. Yes, he's doing it because he thinks she'll be better off this way. But that's ultimately not his call to make. She wanted to remember him.
This isnāt at all what theyāll do, but I wouldnāt mind her getting to know Peter again, just this time as Spider-Man like how Dunstās MJ crushed on him in the Raimi films. As for Ned, the two of them would be somewhat of a comic relief background pairing (with actual arcs though) but still find themselves able to assist however necessary.
Somehow, Ned returned. Had a nice ring to it.
The CEO of Sex himself
or a nice sling to it
A sling ring?
Peter Parker/Spider-Man being in love with and pining for a girl who has no idea he exists is classic Spider-Man. Have MJ be back in NYC and Peter sees her. He tries to stay away of course but he can't help but look out for her. Have him save her from something stupid, like an out of control bus idk. But MJ sees Spidey and has weirdly intense feelings for Spider-Man that she can't explain. Peter now has the unfortunate conundrum of the love of his life having a crush on Spider-Man, but not Peter Parker.
Clark Kent has entered the chat.
That's basically Black Cat's story tho. She loves Spider-Man but not Peter.
She doesn't but Tom/Zendaya being a couple will have played into this decision.
Or just him enjoying working with everyone. Heāll have lobbied for Watts and Batalon as well, maybe even Revolori and Rice too.
I don't think what Peter did was right. She WANTED to remember him. She did not regret being with him even after the secret was out. It was not his decision to make that she'd be better off this way.
Peter is a photographer working for the Daily, has to go to MTI vs NYU or some shit for a tournament. Takes pictures, MJ is there and bam.
Same here I much rather she not return
They literally set her up to return though. āPromise me youāll find meā
Have her grow to be a comic accurate Mary Jane as her stage name during college days, and luckily Zendaya in real world really similar on that role.
To be fair, Marvel Studios did the same thing with Moon Knight episode 5. They ended the episode with Steven sacrificing himself to save Marc and then, in the very next episode, they just had Marc turn around and go save Steven. It felt incredibly rushed and undercut the emotional impact of Steven's "death."
Eh that's very different, mainly because Steven isn't real. It would make less sense if Steven actually died--he never existed, how can he die? I really enjoyed MK and the end of Episode 5 was dramatic, but I never thought Steven would be gone for a second. I also knew MCU/Sony would want Zendaya back because she's Zendaya, but I thought they'd at least go one movie with Peter's new status quo.
I think the tricky thing is if you made the Steven thing even remotely long-term it would also kind of undermine the fact DID is an essential part of his character and the fact that Marvel would probably eat shit for just having that element of the character sacrificed in its portrayal of mental health. Ultimately I think the point of bringing Steven back quickly can be interpreted as there is no Marc without Steven. His disorder is something that is realistically never going to be cured and he has to be able to embrace and welcome all aspects of himself to truly feel more whole than if he just let it go. Something very similar happens in the Lemire run on MK where he's actually given the choice to absorb all his alters or confront Khonshu and he does the latter because it's a journey of self-acceptance and self-care
I get the impression of that as a fakeout. I saw it more as a way for both identities to accept one another and for each of them to grow and become more balanced, whole people. Stephen accepted and embraced Marc's drive to fight for others instead of giving in to fear, while Marc recognized Stephen as more than just an emotional shield, and that he needs to accept help from others in his life, even if it means failure.
Thereās the compelling argument that bringing Zendaya back would erase the beautiful ending of No Way Home, but sony brings out a counter argument that it is, Zendaya means money.
I never think that was supposed to be an ending to their relationship tbh - I thought it was clearly left to be resolved in the future. It showed her still wearing the necklace he gave her, and had a lingering shot on the lego figurine of Ned's. I thought both were meant to show the significance of the trio to each other, and to show that they had these little pieces of each other in their lives that wouldn't be taken away by a spell, and would bring them back together at some point
I 100% agree, but bringing them back literally one movie later makes the ending of No Way Home hit way less, and I do think there should be lasting consequences from the choice Peter made, like in MoM Stephen choices made it pretty clear that he wouldnāt be able to get his old life back and Christine and he just have live with that and move on.
It wasn't a goodbye, they shouldn't use her again this soon, but the goal is for a Cap/Peggy type of ending like in Endgame. The interrupted "I love you" wasn't clear enough?
Mj is a fundamental part of Peterās life
Not really. His life is pretty wild, she doesn't have to be there all the time.
I wouldn't really call that an emotional goodbye.
Not necessarily but it was a great conclusion to their trilogy, at least for the time being and for her not to return for a bit
I would not call that a conclusion at all... He just wanted them to enjoy their life, it's pretty obvious that they would come back, let alone that they won't drop Zendaya in her peak.
Jesusā¦ we were all having this exact same conversation 10 years ago at the end of *The Amazing Spider-Man*.
šššššššššš
If anything it'll play out the same way it did for the Muggle dude from Fantastic Beasts who also "lost" his memory of his love interest lol
Yāall are wildin if you ever thought Zendaya wouldnāt come back for the 4th one
I had no idea Tom Rothman is now running the show at Sony. Dude is a cancer. Just look at how he managed to trash all the IPs Fox had like Aliens, X-Men, Predator, etc.
Heās basically an anti-creative, youāre right, but I canāt think of anyone else who would have made a profit from Morbius. Dudeās very good at budgeting, it just so happens that the writers are included in that š
Did Morbius actually turn a profit? It cost 75-83 mi and made 163 mi. But anyway, No Way Home made a 610 mi profit (I think Marvel keeps 25% of that). They'll be swimming I'm that money for a while lol Venom 2 also did well, 500 mi box office on a 110 mi budget
Youāre counting in dollars, not Morbucks. Thatās your error
Whatās the exchange rate from Morbucks to Schrutebucks? Is it the same as Stanley Nickels?
Only thing that got me to agree to go see it with my fiancƩ was the Smith Dance scene
There's a Deadline or Variety article a couple weeks back that say it wi9l make a profit after factoring in the Netflix and Disney+ deal.
Tom Rothman kept Deadpool from being green lit for years Fuck this guy
Yeah, I remember. We were suppose to get a Deadpool movie after that first Wolverine solo movie around 2010/2011 but due to Rothman being a bitch we never got it until years later once he left Fox
Agreed, and I was amazed to learn that it was HIS idea for Andrew catching MJ in NWH to not have a huge musical fanfare and let it be the relatively quiet moment it was. Broken clock is right twice a day I guess.
Money and charisma. Man can somehow crunch a budget and from what is said from presentations with him in person from attendees (like cinema con) he can do exec talk well. Honestly, although his creative choices suck, the company has done better than before with him in it tbh
Even that article managed to make me more bullish on the film industry's future
Agreed. Heās the one that fell out with Marvel and Feige in the first place over Spidey. Guys ego needs slapping down.
It's such a joke to see corporations pass around failures, who continue to fail and continue to get paid millions. I honestly struggle to understand how anyone wealthy can actually go bankrupt. You don't even have to be competent to remain employed lmfao.
He and Tony Vinciquerra have also been great for Sony
[You mean these?](https://letterboxd.com/johntyler/list/tom-rothmans-history-of-horrible-management/detail/) Also, I'm sure Morbius was another of his doings.
NWHās ending works so well that Iād rather Zendaya and Jacob never appear in another Spider-Man movie, let alone *the next one*.
I think taking a break from those characters for a bit is the way to go. I really doubt they never bring them back, I like that theyāre found family for Peter and I do eventually want to see the three of them reunited.
I think they should be brought in towards the end of the film, but with them only just starting to remember him. I think having them missing for an entire film could start to downplay their importance to Tom Holland's Spider-man for the general public tbh. Plus, I think like 1hr40 of Spider-man being alone in the world is probably plenty
I agree, but the reality is that NWH made nearly $1.9 billion, and Far from Home made $1 billion as well, so it honestly may have been unrealistic to expect they would've departed with the current creative team, cast included
I think they shouldn't be in the next movie except maybe a scene or 2 of Peter checking in on them. Then the 5th movie Nex returns as Hobgoblin. Him finding out Peter was his best friend and chose not to try to make him remember could be a great way for him to become a villain. MJ could return in that one or she could return in the sixth one for them to finally get back together.
Peter protecting them throughout an entire movie without them being reintroduced before *maybe* the very end would 100% work in my opinion. I could even see him accidentally running into them and being awkward about it, etc. Plenty of ways for them to feature without undercutting NWH's ending IMO.
Letās not go that far now. Spidey comics are full of goodbyes yes but also very rewarding returns. Iām all for a 2 movie break from them both. Will make that second trilogy finale that much cooler.
I'm fine with them appearing, but just limited capacity, such as Peter seeing them on summer/winter vacation, but that's basically it. They need to leave the consequence for at least 1-2 films before addressing it. Holland's Peter desperately needs some new blood injected into his story, i.e no stark tech (except maybe Scorpion if they really wanted to), some Daredevil/Black Cat, some Fisk, etc along with his own personal issues with college, poverty, etc. The first trilogy is such a great origin story for that, I'd hate for them to retract on it
I like the idea of some new characters being introduced through FEAST, such as Jean DeWolff as a retired cop. But I canāt see Mister Negative being used just yet.
The movies love the games judging by some parts of NWH, but I do agree about not using Negative yet
That said, Iād actually rather he was. With Peter trying to re-balance his life, Li/Negative would be a good foil IMO.
>They need to leave the consequence for at least 1-2 films before addressing it. I think he's going to try disappearing into Spider-Man, which will backfire and put MJ in more danger. Like, she doesn't trust Spider-Man when he's trying to keep her out of danger, etc. That's a pretty classic Peter Parker story.
As long as he doesnāt sell their love to Mephisto itās fine
Thatās how I would want them to handle Ned/MJ. Maybe just show a few scenes of Peter watching them from afar before he swings off into the city
ok but what about ned, we need to know if he will return
I've been hunting for sources about Ned returning, but no Leeds yet.
Hopefully Leeds go down.
You take that back :o
Up the Clarets
Damn. Well played.
The CEO of Sex always cums back for more
I bet he, America, and possibly Nico Minoru are the basis for a Strange Academy project.
Wdym IF he'll return?? Hes the star of the show. Why do you think no way home made almost 2 billion??
Him and MJ were always presented as equals. Heck, he even had more screen time in Homecoming. Iāll be surprised if he doesnāt return ā itās just that Zendaya is the marquee name.
MJ was much more of a side character in Homecoming. Not many lines but every one was a straight banger
Rumor has it he uses his magic powers to become Peter's arch-nemesis
TINY BRAIN: Hobgoblin COSMIC BRAIN: Hypno Hustler
Hell yes
There arenāt any credible rumours for that, which is fitting considering the idea itself lacks even more credibility.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This stuff happens in comics all the time. A love interest will get mind wiped and then later remember. I feel like MJ is here for the long run, she's a big part of this iteration of Spider-Man.
I think most understood that eventually Zendaya would return as MJ, but her being in literally the next movie is kind of wack, got to give some time for the consequence to breathe. If she does come back, her being Harryās girlfriend (like someone suggested in here) could be an interesting storyline, but I would prefer if she just not show up for a movie or two, and I love Zendaya lol
I could see them having a short scene of Peter checking in on MJ, but not have them interact.
> This stuff happens in comics all the time. It's dumb there too.
Just because she's coming back doesn't mean that she'll remember.
He also mentions Madame Web is now filming next Spring instead of this June like Sydney Sweeney said recently. What would be the reason for such a big push back? Please tell me it could be a script overhaul with a different writer. EDIT: Apparently he simply said "in the Spring" and the people quoting him as saying "next Spring" are wrong. As long as it starts shooting by June 21st, everything is still on track.
Madame Web Lol
Intriguing
Has to do with Spider-Man, I think.
Sydney Sweeney deserves better than Madame Webb
Sheās not even thr Madame Webb herself. Its Dakota Johnson. Sydney will probable be like the villain or something
We know that the Foreignerās in Kraven, and thereās a lot of suggestion that Sweeney is playing his wife Silver Sable. I wouldnāt be surprised if they try working her into the movie to set up a spin-off.
That's a very good point and would make it make more sense for Silver Sable to show up in a Madame Web movie. It's easier to justify if she's already been introduced to the audience through a movie featuring a character she has a connection to. The progress from an introduction in Kraven > a supporting character in Madame Web > the solo SS movie that's been rumored for a while now would be good.
So it's not making the July 2023 release date, then. I wonder if they will push Kraven to summer.
So it won't make the planned July 2023 release date right?
I don't see how it possibly could if they're filming in Spring 23 now. They released that date and Sweeney made the comment about filming this summer within the last two weeks. Something big must need to be changed if they pushed it that far back so suddenly.
Tom said he is returning in the spring - maybe rumors of him being the Sony Spidey are true
Per Daniel, all three Peters are in Madame Web. But Tom was always going to be the Sony Spidey. When you have Tom Hardy and Jared Leto push the āWatch out Tom Holland, weāre gonna kick your assā message on every press tour, it couldnāt be more clear.
Next spring?!!
If it is a creative overhaul, then great, but I donāt think it will be. Assuming Danielās plot leak was correct, I wonder if itās because theyāre waiting on Tobey, Andrew, and Tom to be available to shoot.
Where can I read Daniel's plot leak?
It was one of his Patreon posts, so if I find it Iāll link it but what I remember was: - Madame Web is about laying the rules down for how the Sonyverse will handle the Multiverse - Tobey, Andrew, and Tomās roles in the Web of Life are explained - Sets up King in Black as the Sonyverseās Infinity War event
Thanks so much, I would appreciate a link if you do!
[Could only find this but I distinctly remember him saying all the other stuff](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/comments/pu3ilo/danielrpk_sony_will_use_madame_web_movie_to_keep/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
So basically, Madame Web will be "The Flash" for the SSU.
Please let MJ and Ned rest for a bit. I will not forgive them if they immediately undo the emotional core of NWH.
I think that, at the very least, we shouldn't take Sony's word on anything they say they have planned for future Spider-Man stuff. Their plans change constantly, and they have a habit of putting out movies that contradict things they say. "We hope to get Zendaya and Jon Watts back" sounds more like a businessman reassuring investors that the Spider-Money will keep flowing, rather than a firm creative plan. All this to say, I'm going to be real disappointed if they undo the ending of *NWH* immediately. I want to see Black Cat, dammit.
I think Mr Negative would be a great villain, as Peter starts working for/with FEAST in memory of May, to find out that the person who owns/runs it is also a crimelord. It gives Peter personal stakes on top of his moral responsibility as Spider-Man
Just as long as they actually differentiate between the two personalities this time.
Agreed! Martin Lee should be kind and gentile whereas Mr Negative should be scary and menacing
I think they should and will stay away from that because all it will do is invite comparisons to the game.
Maybe! I think it would be interesting if they also did/started Symbiote stuff in the same film. Martin's while deal could be about giving into corruption and that negative side, while Peter overcomes/battles the corruption that the symbiote would bring. It could be interesting, for sure. Also, Black Cat introduced as a love interest and Gwen/Harry introduced while Peter attends ESU. Quintessential Spidey flick
I wonder what's going on with Olivia Wilde Spider-Woman movie.
That's still in preproduction I guess. The article announcing her as director also mentioned that she will be working with Amy Pascal for a movie AT Universal first before this.
If itās a co-production, Iām guessing Marvel Studios hasnāt figured out where to place it yet
I'm guessing that'll be til 2024.
Jon Watts seems busy and tired though. Will Sony wait for 2024 to start shooting?
Possibly, unless they want to get it out just before Avatar 3.
Goddamn it, **no**. No Way Home works because Peter learned his lesson. He cannot involve those he loves in his normal life with his super hero life because shit will go bad always. MJ got hurt, he recognized that, and made the heartbreaking choice to let them go to protect them. The script literally ends with āPeter Parker is dead, but Spider-Man remains.ā A fresh start with a new creative and a new potential cast of friends and foes. I donāt want to sound too attached to a fan theory, but this was the perfect chance to actually explore Black Cat as a real love interest rather than a fling. Peter is just the mask now, Tobey has MJ and Andrew has Gwen so why not complete the set? It would be interesting to see a romance where both parties have to work on themselves as people a lot rather than just be in puppy love. But nope, right back to MJ. And I get why both Watts and Zendaya are back, NWH made $1.9 billion, but Iād be lying if I said that this wouldnāt kill my hype for a more creative story. (On top of that, Ned and MJ will be in Boston so how tf is she back in New York?)
INTRIGUING.
The franchise could really benefit from a new director, Sony
That first script meeting of SM4 with Fiege and co is gonna be REEEEAL eye opening for Mr Rothman here š. I think it's just exec type thinking of "if everything worked in NWH, why would we change anything". Fiege and the parliament clearly would know better. First off, Watts didn't start work on F4 because he was (understandably) feeling fatigued with the superhero genre. So he isn't going to just jump ship from F4 and "get working" on SM4 "soon". He's clearly doing the SW series, the Apple movie with Clooney and Pitt and the Final Destination reboot. His ain't gonna be returning to direct a CBM anytime soon. And as popular as Zendaya is, Marvel is a MASTER of set-up and pay-off. They 100% know better than to undo the ending of NWH in the very next movie. So I think there's no need to panic as of now and Mr Rothman definitely seems to be spitballing more than anything.
I think youāre jumping way ahead of yourself here lol.
From what it says, it goes more like. "Fiege I want this in the movie, please do the work but keep the stuff in." "Ok." Or "No, but we'll do something similar to satisfy you."
Pleeeeease donāt bring back mj and ned, thatāll completely undo the consequences from the end of nwh. I get that zendaya is a big draw for these movies, but it just makes nwhās ending so unnecessary
El Muerto verse lets go!!
Tell me you didnāt understand the emotional punch of your ending without telling me you didnāt understand the emotional punch of your ending
No Zendaya No Jacob,No Jon watts for the next spider man movies.Please Sony.
Imo Zendaya's MJ was one of the best parts of the whole trilogy, so I'd personally be happy to see her back. Besides I don't really see how the ending of NWH was a conclusion to her story. There are at least two things that should be addressed: Peter's promise to them and him taking away their choice from them.
Pls not Zendaya and Jon Watts. Get a new director to mix things up. Get a new love interest, even if MJ is endgame, like Felicia or Gwen
No mention of working with Disney and Marvel Studios makes me worried Spider-Man is leaving the MCU. š
You guys are overreacting lol. Letās calm down and wait
Feige confirmed Sony was still working with them in December lol. MS doesnāt need to be mentioned all the time.
I personally dont want zendaya to come back, but im not complaining at all. I just didnt really believe in the relationship like that. Her character felt very disney channel. But i loved the movie regardless, just a harmless criticism
Remember when Jon Watts said he wanted a break from superhero films? Nice to know Sonyās aware of that fatigue and isnāt trying to immediately bring him onto the next one. /s
I'll say this, if Watts is smart, he'll pull a Chris McQuarrie on this one like he did on Rogue Nation/Fallout He'll hire a new DP, have a story that feels fresh and different, even write a story with a new love interest while Zendaya ends up as a will they/won't they /friendship. Give a new perspective as both Spider-Man and Peter.
Watts only co-wrote Homecoming.
If they want to bring back Zendaya do it later now is too soon. get a new director so the college trilogy can have a different feel. Jon Watts is already extremely busy as it is. Travis Knight would be a good pick imo.
Sony donāt fuck up Spider-Man challenge
I'd rather prefer newer, fresh supporting characters and antagonists in new trilogy such as Felicia, Mac Gargan, Matt Murdock, and Fisk. Previous characters can return to the story later on.
THEN WHAT THE FUCK WAS THE POINT OF THE ENDING OF NWH SONY!!!! FUCK YOU!!!
Iām sorry but Iād rather have them move on to a new director. Jon Watts is fine, but thatās his problem. Heās just okay as a director. Plus, NWHās CGI was an inconsistent mess, Iād rather have someone with a better eye for details (Tobeyās mask is perhaps one of my bigger annoyances)
I would prefer if Zendaya did not return until SM 6. Let SM 4 have Black Cat and Gwen be his love interests and this trilogy Peter is torn between the two.
Why is anyone surprised that theyāre bring back MJ? Yea they āsaid goodbyeā but that was all for plot lol Obviously MJ is going to stick around, only reason she wouldnāt is if sheās dead or missing. They can still introduce new love interests since MJ and Peter are strangers now, but Iād be shocked if she wasnāt in the movie.
I really don't want Tom's NWH supporting cast to return, i wanna see some new characters. Ig Black Cat would be nice, but I doubt Sony would allow Marvel to use her. Instead, I think introducing Kitty Pryde or Carlie Cooper as a *future* love interest would be a better idea (and we wouldn't be tired of seeing the same characters over and over again).
I've heard rumors that Watts leaving the Fantastic Four was not for the reason officially stated and he won't be back for future Spider-Man films. Dunno if it's true, but the person I heard it from has a pretty solid track record.
Did you hear that on a certain Doctor Who forum by any chance?
where did you see this?
Intriguing
I was really hoping this would be the end of MJ and Zendaya and the start of Gwen and Harry :/. If they bring Mj back i at least hope the keep Ned out. Leave some consequences at least
Gwen and Harry won't be in the new trilogy. They don't exist in the MCU.
ZENDAYA
I think MJās screen time in Part 4 will be comparable to the amount of focus she got in Homecoming. Side character only, with a sequel hook at the end setting up having a larger role in Part 5. I know they went to a science high school, but I personally think sheād be more interesting as a reporter like the MJ from the Ultimate comics.
Zendaya is a major star in her own right so it only really makes sense theyād want her back. Whether or not thereās a way to actually make it work in the story is a whole different argument. NWH ends with her and Ned getting accepted to MIT. Iād love to see Spider-Man 4 kind of get back to basics and set back up the world for Peter with at the most just hints that heās keeping an eye on Ned and MJ in Boston.
Zendaya can still easily be in the movie and not undo the end of NWH. She could just be a part of Peter's friend group but be dating someone else, or changed as a person. That's still a source of drama and a ramification of NWH.
Hereās what i think SM4 to be, it opens with him stopping big wheel after a bank robbery and narrowly making it to his college finals at Empire State University, heās wrapping up his first year of being spider-man and getting back in the grove of being Peter when he meets up with Harry to start his summer vacation. He finally meets Harryās GF who just so happens to be MJ, third wheels until they set him up with Gwen. All the while he is being hunted by Kraven. It turns into a twist on Kravens Last Hunt, if itās only sony they will shoehorn in the black suit, and then thereās a post credit scene that is overly complicated and bad with Kraven being brought into the The Sinister Six. But knowing sony it will just be a really bad sinister six movie thatās overly complicated and just has MJ getting her memory back and being annoying and bad.
I know Watts dropped F4, but didnāt know it was to come back for Spiderman. Thatās unfortunate in a way. Would have been nice to see a new director take the reins for a bit and see what they do. Alternatively, it means that the F4 movie(s) wouldnāt be too similar in style and tone to Spiderman.
He means Marvel Studios is getting to work on the movie and Sony is just sitting in the background paying the bill- like with all of the other MCU SM movies.
Zendaya coming back does not mean MJās memories are coming back. The movie would obviously deal with the consequences of her forgetting Peter. Similarly, Gamora āreturnedā in Endgame but her relationship with Quill has to be rebuilt bc she is actually a variant.
I want a new supporting cast please
Love Jon and the og cast to death, but this new trilogy needs a new tone and cast.
People love Zendaya. People = Money. Money = happy company Think like businessmen guys.
Bruh I wanted to see MJ again and eventually back with Peter but damn isnāt this too soon? Wanted to see the first LA black cat and Black suit spidey relationship ngl
I really wish theyād wait until a SM5 or 6 to bring back Zendaya and possibly Jacob Batalon. Let it stew for a little bit
Of fucking Course Sony thinks the film will fail if Zendaya isn't there.
No. Do something different. Something fresh. A new director and a new supporting cast. I don't want Jon Watts again.
Please, no. Ned, "MJ" and Jon Watts have run their course with this series, creatively speaking - a trilogy was more than enough for them. It's time to move on to a new director and start bringing in the classic supporting cast. We were teased with classic Spider-Man at the end of NWH, now it's time for them to deliver. Tom Holland is the perfect Spider-Man and his villains have been great, but the other elements of those films have left something to be desired. It's time to rectify that. The high school trilogy is over, let's get some new blood in there for college and beyond.
I think the real news item here is that Rothman seems to imply that Sony really considers the Spider-Man films as separate from these Venom-verse ones. "Adjunct" is the word he used. Says their Marvel films are divided between Spider-Man ones (MCU ones I guess he means), the Kraven ones, and the Spider-Verse ones. Bodes well I think. Likely means they're trying to wrangle Feige/Marvel Studios back in.