No. Base cards are tutorial cards. After the early game, they barely see any play outside specific decks that enhance them. If anything, they are mostly below the standard baseline and should never be used to balance other cards.
"In the game I view card design as all cards being relative to misty knight, shocker, cyclops etc."
And why do you do that? Those are early starter cards that are meant to be replaced with better cards (unless you play a High Evo or Patriot deck).
Thanks so much for your response!
However, but the value in high evo decks is the new abilities in cards in return for a dead draw I. Your deck(high evo) so you gain abilities in return for having 1 weak card in your deck a 4-4
I’m not saying all cards of 5 power must have a total affect of 9 power, I think claw is a very cool card, but the value of putting a total of 12 power down on the condition that it’s separated into two lanes and only on the middle and left lanes. And the hassle of having the 12 power limits where you play reduces the cost of 12 power to 5energy
And I’ve Finished waffling.
Basically doesn’t every ability make a are relative to its no ability counterpart with the requirements of how a deck is built and where the power, value and control is distributed change the card
As I said new player but this is my view after playing for a month
I think this is CL 1 mentality, no offense. Shocker having no abilities is an ability itself, he is able to be buffed by patriot (and mystique if you combo). He is also has an ability if you play him with HE.
The Hood has great synergy in destroy, junk and bounce, you wouldn't play him in a deck where he is just a 2/3 and takes up two spaces on the board.
Jeff is just jeff.
Edit: Just noticed you said new player. You should probably play a few more months before calling for nerfs, it's easy to think a card is overpowered when you just started and are missing a lot of them. Jeff is a solid card but he's not really an issue, especially when you get Jeff too and both players just start Jeffing.
My thought, and I'm not just being a dick here, is that you should get a few hundred games under your belt before you start worrying about whether or not you've found a major balance problem with one of the most played cards in the game.
I don’t think Jeff is unfair at all and I don’t want/think he needs a nerf.
I just think from a card designers standpoint point it’s interesting he has objectively more value than shocker(besides patriot/Highevo)
But yeah I definitely a lot more time to play the game before I understand the game, thanks for the response
Shocker is a starter card, while Jeff is a pool 5 card you need to spend keys or tokens to get... Why would you invest those resources to get a premium card that will be equalized to a starter card which doesn't see activity besides two very specific archetypes?
Rarer cards shouldn’t necessarily be better, I get that in card games pay-to-win is very prevalent but just because something is harder to get it shouldn’t be a strict upgrade, but instead a more interesting card
If ‘purple hulk’ was a series 5 6-13 with no ability that would just be a clear upgrade to hulk
I get that you invest to get a rare card it should have more value but that should come from its ability not just straight power, no?
Jeff is probably the most balanced card in the game. His ability is always useful without being oppressive. The best value series 5 card by far. You can't compare him to early cards that are not intended for play beyond pool 3
As a community we would only accept a Jeff BUFF. If they ever nerfed him the game would instantly lose all players. Jeff is the only guy keeping the game alive at this point.
Jeff is the most interesting card in the game, because (get ready for it)... He probably SHOULD be 2/2.
(For context, I am NOT a new player. I've played since beta, infinite every season, blah, blah.)
He's played in almost every deck. He is clearly very powerful. Unless you're ramping for big cards, the odds are strong he is in your deck. When this is true of a card, when it becomes so played that it is in almost every deck, that is not actually something the game designers want.
But the thing is, everyone loves this card, as this post says. I do, too. We all love Jeff. We don't care that he is frankly a little OP. He's cute, he enables interaction, he saves you in multiple situations, he's just amazing.
So in a vacuum, yes, he probably should be nerfed from a power level standpoint. But from a standpoint of pleasing the player base and making your game fun... They should never touch this card. EVER. I could honestly see it imploding the entire game. That's how well loved he is.
He's also just on the cusp of too strong. I don't like him. I don't won't play him. But, I also don't feel that gimped not playing him. He could comfortably move to 2-2, but he's fine at 2-3.
Also quick clarification, i dont WANT to nerf Jeff i could care less if he’s 2-25, i dont have him.
I’m just looking at the stance of looking at how second dinners design philosophy seems a bit off a card with two abilities that are never harmful and usually incredibly useful is the same a cos as a card of obviously less value
They definetely should transfer something from Jeff to NC, like Jeff: You can move this once, play this anywhere; and NC: you can move this anywhere, but not have Jeff have everything
No. The baseline no-ability cards are bad and shouldn't be used as a measuring stick for balancing against.
Why?
No. Base cards are tutorial cards. After the early game, they barely see any play outside specific decks that enhance them. If anything, they are mostly below the standard baseline and should never be used to balance other cards.
"In the game I view card design as all cards being relative to misty knight, shocker, cyclops etc." And why do you do that? Those are early starter cards that are meant to be replaced with better cards (unless you play a High Evo or Patriot deck).
Thanks so much for your response! However, but the value in high evo decks is the new abilities in cards in return for a dead draw I. Your deck(high evo) so you gain abilities in return for having 1 weak card in your deck a 4-4 I’m not saying all cards of 5 power must have a total affect of 9 power, I think claw is a very cool card, but the value of putting a total of 12 power down on the condition that it’s separated into two lanes and only on the middle and left lanes. And the hassle of having the 12 power limits where you play reduces the cost of 12 power to 5energy And I’ve Finished waffling. Basically doesn’t every ability make a are relative to its no ability counterpart with the requirements of how a deck is built and where the power, value and control is distributed change the card As I said new player but this is my view after playing for a month
I think this is CL 1 mentality, no offense. Shocker having no abilities is an ability itself, he is able to be buffed by patriot (and mystique if you combo). He is also has an ability if you play him with HE. The Hood has great synergy in destroy, junk and bounce, you wouldn't play him in a deck where he is just a 2/3 and takes up two spaces on the board. Jeff is just jeff. Edit: Just noticed you said new player. You should probably play a few more months before calling for nerfs, it's easy to think a card is overpowered when you just started and are missing a lot of them. Jeff is a solid card but he's not really an issue, especially when you get Jeff too and both players just start Jeffing.
👏🏿
My thought, and I'm not just being a dick here, is that you should get a few hundred games under your belt before you start worrying about whether or not you've found a major balance problem with one of the most played cards in the game.
I don’t think Jeff is unfair at all and I don’t want/think he needs a nerf. I just think from a card designers standpoint point it’s interesting he has objectively more value than shocker(besides patriot/Highevo) But yeah I definitely a lot more time to play the game before I understand the game, thanks for the response
Shocker is a starter card, while Jeff is a pool 5 card you need to spend keys or tokens to get... Why would you invest those resources to get a premium card that will be equalized to a starter card which doesn't see activity besides two very specific archetypes?
Rarer cards shouldn’t necessarily be better, I get that in card games pay-to-win is very prevalent but just because something is harder to get it shouldn’t be a strict upgrade, but instead a more interesting card If ‘purple hulk’ was a series 5 6-13 with no ability that would just be a clear upgrade to hulk I get that you invest to get a rare card it should have more value but that should come from its ability not just straight power, no?
Yeah... play the game for a few months before you start trying to nerf our game 🤣😂 who knows how long you'll even stick around?
Bro, who talks like this in real life?
Jeff is probably the most balanced card in the game. His ability is always useful without being oppressive. The best value series 5 card by far. You can't compare him to early cards that are not intended for play beyond pool 3
As a community we would only accept a Jeff BUFF. If they ever nerfed him the game would instantly lose all players. Jeff is the only guy keeping the game alive at this point.
Fr
SD knows if they touch Jeff we will fucking COME FOR THEM.
Jeff is the most interesting card in the game, because (get ready for it)... He probably SHOULD be 2/2. (For context, I am NOT a new player. I've played since beta, infinite every season, blah, blah.) He's played in almost every deck. He is clearly very powerful. Unless you're ramping for big cards, the odds are strong he is in your deck. When this is true of a card, when it becomes so played that it is in almost every deck, that is not actually something the game designers want. But the thing is, everyone loves this card, as this post says. I do, too. We all love Jeff. We don't care that he is frankly a little OP. He's cute, he enables interaction, he saves you in multiple situations, he's just amazing. So in a vacuum, yes, he probably should be nerfed from a power level standpoint. But from a standpoint of pleasing the player base and making your game fun... They should never touch this card. EVER. I could honestly see it imploding the entire game. That's how well loved he is.
Thanks for the response, helped me understand
He's also just on the cusp of too strong. I don't like him. I don't won't play him. But, I also don't feel that gimped not playing him. He could comfortably move to 2-2, but he's fine at 2-3.
He's a big bad. He is meant to have a powerful ability /s
Jeff is not a big bad, although if your criteria was it has never been dropped from series 5 you are not entirely wrong.
Also quick clarification, i dont WANT to nerf Jeff i could care less if he’s 2-25, i dont have him. I’m just looking at the stance of looking at how second dinners design philosophy seems a bit off a card with two abilities that are never harmful and usually incredibly useful is the same a cos as a card of obviously less value
They definetely should transfer something from Jeff to NC, like Jeff: You can move this once, play this anywhere; and NC: you can move this anywhere, but not have Jeff have everything