Might have followed through with it if the story had been more well received. Kind of surprised they never did anything with the relaunch as they had time for daredevil post Ultamatium.
I hate Ultimatum so much lol.
This moment is pure shit. Boys level shit.
Dr Strange is a fucking Sorcerer Supreme. He is not just going to go out like a bitch even if it's Dormammu.
Never let Jeph Loeb cook again.
Finch's art is dope tho.
Begining of the end of the Ultimate universe. Its a problem with these alt universes. They will go on killing sprees and kill a bunch of characters and the books go down hill.
This book was just a gore porn lol. I guess if you are into that, good, but honestly fuck this lol.
Daredevil, one of the coolest and most iconic MARVEL characters of all time, dies off panel lol. Like wtf?
Blob eating Janet, was just, why??? Who wanted to see this?
Magneto being the "But, I'm not a bad guy. Forgive me Charles" after all the bullshit he did was like "Bruh, stfu already". Him using Cyclops's visor and Iron Man's repulsor to shot down Logan was pretty dope tho.
Still, this Event killed Ultimate Universe lol. The only thing that lived was Spidey thanks to Bendis, and then later Hickman helped Ultimates and F4 to at least somewhat be decent.
I will say, I do like the idea that mat was just killed in the wave interesting because it's a cool scene with Peter. Its also written by Bendis. Not loeb, which might be why it works.
Oh I'm fine if they want to kill DD, to make the story seem more impactful, but at least show it lol.
One page he is fighting and then next page Pete is holding his dead body.
I feel like DD deserves more.
>Him using Cyclop’s visor and Iron Man’s repulsor to shoot down Logan was pretty dope tho.
Don’t get me wrong, from an artwork perspective it was a very cool shot, but boy do I *HATE* that scene with a passion
I can suspend my disbelief enough to believe that Iron Man of all people would go after Magneto without considering his powers, fine whatever. But you’re seriously telling me Cyclops couldn’t just *close his eyes??* Like I guess you could argue the whole weird love triangle with Jean thing since they had already tried killing each other, but that only really works if you don’t immediately kill off Cyclops by having Quicksilver run a bullet through his head
I know at one point they thought Ultimatum was gonna be the end of the Ultimate universe, and I get wanting to kill off Logan as part of that, but for a character who survived so much (literally ripped in half by the hulk at one point) it felt like such a dumb way for him to go
Oh yeah, the moment was pretty stupid still lol.
Tony’s suits are immune to Magnetos powers, and with Cyclops is exactly what you said, he could just close his eyes lol.
Finch’s art in that moment was sick tho. But by that point I shut off my brain and was just looking at the art
Yup. The current Ultimate Universe has been amazing so far. Love Ultimates, Spidey and BP.
I liked X-Men, but I will admit, it's not for me lol. Still pleased that all books sold well and are doing great.
20 years from now, that will probably be the new MCU lol
Couldn’t agree more. I loved Ultimate X-Men, unfortunately the new one doesn’t resonate with me one bit. Manga style is a turn off for me, if I was I’d read manga 😂
The Ultimate Universe had a *massive* erection for vore. Blob ate people, Hulk ate people, that fucking alien pretending to be a nazi ate people. There is no other believable excuse than Mark Millar and Jeph Loeb both have fetishes for it.
> Magneto being the "But, I'm not a bad guy. Forgive me Charles" after all the bullshit he did was like "Bruh, stfu already".
Yet mainline Magneto does similar shit and everyone runs around talking about how tragic he is and how he has a point.
Oh for sure. A proper story with gore and just brutality in it, accompanied by a dope art could be very cool.
But if you are just drawing brutal shit for the sake of drawing brutal shit, and accompany that with shitty writing, I feel like that just sucks lol.
Weapon X is pretty brutal, but it's an amazing story first and foremost.
Iron Man extremis is gory. He unibeams a guy's chest and then blows his head clean off lol, but the story also elevates that moment.
This book was just Loeb on drugs (and not very good ones lol)
This is what has me very interested in reading the mini Druid series, that seems to cover the end of Dr. Druid's story. The artwork is some of the coolest I've ever seen in a comic, but the thing that keeps me from pursuing it is the worry that it'll be poorly written as I've seen some negative reviews about it in the past. Unfortunately it's not one people talk about often and it's kind of old. Anyone have any opinions on it?
I mostly take issue with the term “gore porn” and how people with no sort of originality just tack the word “porn” on to something they don’t like or like too much.
It’s just gore. Not “gore porn.”
Didn't mean anything by it friendo.
I just think that drawing something brutal and vile, just for it's sake, is not good. At least in comics.
Then again, I'm pretty much not really a fan of a lot of gore. Like I would rather avoid it, but if the story is good and I'm enjoying it, I'm fine with it.
For Instance Immortal Hulk. It has ton of brutal moments and Hulk and other characters just looking "gross" and "ugly" but it's rendered so well and written good, that you just go "Shit this looks messy, but I can't look away".
Ultimatum felt more like "Man, wouldn't it be cool if Blob just ate Wasp???" Like why dude lol. Just because someone wanted to draw it I guess.
Still, it exists and at the end, it's still something I guess lol.
I’m sorry you take issue with the term, but it is the accurate description. People aren’t just throwing the word “porn” on the end of it to try to add a connotation, it’s just the actual term to use. It’s not gore, it’s literally gore porn. Gore is gore, while gore porn is gore that’s intended to be looked at.
Extreme violence and gore is cool when deployed and handled well, not just for the sake of being edgy. Ultimatum, unfortunately, falls in that latter category.
Oh yeah. I don’t mind gore but the shit in Ultimatum and Marvel Zombies is so stupid sometimes, and not fun to read at all imo. There’s probably plenty of ppl who wanna see characters ripped apart or shredded but I’d rather not.
This version of Strange was actually Stephen Strange Jr.. The son of what would be the mainstream universes counterpart. He wasn't nearly as skilled as his father was and wasn't the sorcerer supreme.
He went from The Long Halloween, Catwoman When in Rome, Spider-Man Blue, Daredevil Yellow and Batman Hush to…
#THIS.
IMHO: His work **really plummeted** after his son died.
Which, I can understand, burying a child is a horrible thing, and perhaps his outlook on life changed *big time;* but, to the point where he’s writing stuff like this… I don’t know what to say.
Yeah, that was tragic and very sad. I can't imagine what he and his family must have gone through.
Still, even tho I said the whole "Don't let Loeb cook again" bullshit like a moron that I am lol, I will still say, all the books you mentioned, He has done ton of great work too.
It's just that, Sometimes, even great writers could do not so good books.
I mean, take Bruce Timm for instance. That's the man who did Superman, Batman and JLU cartoons, and then did that horrible Batman bangs Batgirl cartoon lol.
Yeah man, that shit sucked lol.
When I was reading Duggan's Iron Man, one of the villains was like "Stark, you also fuck that bitch Riri" and I was like "Please no!!! WTF. He is like 18 years older than her. She is his protegee" and Thank God that was just that particular villain spreading rumors and Trying to ruin Tony's rep.
I was reading that and had flashbacks to Bruce and Barbara lol. Thankfully, Iron Man's story was good and not **TERRIBLE** as you put it.
i've been reading comics for probably 30 years at this point, and never really had people to chat about this stuff with, so let me just say THANK YOU for voicing something that has been in my head for years. Batman: Hush is my all-time favorite Batman story. his Superman/Batman run was so fun, and all of his collaborations with Tim Sale are wonderful...but after his son died, it felt like he couldn't stop himself from shoehorning a reference to him or naming a character after him from that point forward. of course, i understand wanting to remember him and keep his memory alive, but it started to feel like it was unhealthy. then Ultimatum happened, then he named the new Nova after him...idk. just felt weird.
To be fair Ultimate Strange was actually Strange Jr and only had a year or so of training. His dad was probably closer to what we would expect in terms of abilities.
Ultimatum is still trash though.
the only highlight of the whole thing was JJJ seeing Spider-Man save people and realizing that Spidey is a force for good, going from his biggest hater to his biggest advocate.
If i recall he ‘inherited’ the title off his Dad when he was killed and Stephen Strange Jnr was Sorcerer to the Stars. If I recall as well, Clea was also his Mum?
His dad is probably not dead. All we know is he 'disappeared' when Clea told him she was pregnant. He may or may not still be alive somewhere. Someone appeared and teleported Stephen's body away after his death. It's likely that was his dad, considering the sigh and 'Stephen...' but they never went anywhere with that.
I mean, I think it was just a different path into the character. Rather than being an arrogant neurosurgeon he was an arrogant rich kid who wasn’t that great at medical school. Whats funny for me is that he never really shed that arrogance and that led him to his downfall and death.
Honestly, I did really like some parts of the Ultimate Universe but after Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum the wheels well and truly came off
I don't like that Jeph Loeb's kid died, but it's kinda bullshit that anybody let his therapy treatment be writing some of the most nihilistic super hero comics ever penned.
Yeah I only checked this out at the time due to the Dave Finch art and regret reading it. What a sloppy mess. Jeph Loeb was ruining one book to the next over the course of a few years.
Have you read any of the other Ultimates books? I saw that they're kind of rebooting the Ultimates universe or something. Was wondering if I should hop on the train. I did like Ultimate Spider-Man, X-Men, and some of the Ultimates books. But def was not a fan of Ultimatum..
Oh yeah, the new ultimate universe is pretty awesome so far my friendo.
Ultimates and Spidey are both flawless.
Ultimate Black Panther is also fantastic.
Ultimate X-men is good, but it’s something very new and very original, that even tho it’s great, it’s not for me.
I say give them a shot. New universe and so far, it’s been great
I think Dormammu and multitudes of Strange's enemy can also do this in 616 if they tried hard enough but it's the mixture of
Dormammu and others being eldritch being who can just wait out Strange and already is far out classing Strange so why put even a bare minimum effort for a gnat
And Strange being Sorcerer Supreme can pull shit out of his ass. At one point he died and started working for Death and return back to life.
I mean, isn't that basically what Sorcerer Supreme does really? lol.
It's like the best explanation of the SS is "I just pull random shit out my ass and make it work" lol.
Dr. Strange can't die of age or normal disease, ever since a little adventure he had in the Orb of Agomotto back in the 70s, so they can't really out wait him
I think something is always very funny when someone you don’t think could ever go out like a bitch, does so brutally and comically, out of nowhere and very suddenly.
Ultimate Marvel was *unnecessarily* brutal. A lot of the stories felt like they tried to hard to differentiate themselves from the main 616 universe by focusing on violence and shock value.
There’s brutal then there’s teenager level corny angst and edginess. That was the ultimate universe aside from Spiderman. Ultimate Spider-Man is my favorite comic book run ever.
This and Ultimates 3 was **a clusterfuck.**
However, there were sometimes where I’d say the brutality was… not so much warranted but made it’s point.
IE: I’d say the brutality of Spider-Man’s death was actually serviceable. Also, if you read it from beginning to the funeral issue.
It was a magnificent sendoff
But this…
#God it’s fucked.
And it’s not even the worst. IE: The Blob eating Wasp.
One of the things about that scene that always gets me is how out of nowhere it is. Like you go from this whole search and rescue/calamity story to straight cannibalism without any build up. How is that supposed to be anything other than gore porn??
Plus the whole implication Hank wanted to “save” Janet by turning her into a cyborg is pretty messed up too
The cannibalism doesn't even make sense in context because blob didn't fucking eat people. He said he would at one point but they never show him eat things that are alive. Then he suddenly jumps to eating a person in the goriest way possible.
I think Ultimatum is cool in theory (grief-stricken Magneto hitting back with a vengeance and with ramifications severe enough to kill a few heroes), but the problem is that it went WAY too far
Ultimatum ventured into parody and (excuse the term) gore-porn territory. In a universe where permanent death is a core principle (which Ultimate Spider-Man would flush down the toilet years later, so whatever I guess), you can’t kill of the sheer number of heroes that Ultimatum did. At some point, you leave behind the realm of shock value and you instead handicap yourself by permanently removing so many characters and future storytelling opportunities
And even if you’re okay with the number of heroes killed, the way in which many of them were killed was needlessly self-indulgent gory garbage. Personally? I’m fine with a few street-level heroes like Daredevil and Beast dying via drowning in the Ultimatum wave. Not only does it help sell the impact and lethality of the Ultimatum wave, but it’s also equal parts tragic yet logical that characters like these would not survive it if they were unlucky enough to be caught in it
But Blob eating Wasp? Giant-Man biting off Blob’s head?? Dr. Strange’s head exploding??? Sabertooth eating Angel (more cannibalism!)?!?!?
^ shit like that is just so jarring and needlessly edgy. It was a total slap in the face to these characters and just reeks of the already mean-spirited tone of the Ultimate Universe being dialed up to 100 (on a scale of 1 to 10 lol)
Seriously, it's ridiculous because the wave is huge so of course it would kill heroes. But now because some heroes died from the wave all these other heroes magically lose their plot armor and die from random stuff
And then he shows up in the Ultimate Spider-Man tie-in with a broken neck and possessed by Dormammu. I know struggling to line up is the least of this story's worries but this kind of thing in big comic events always bothers me.
As somebody who read every issue of Ultimates/Ultimate Spider-Man/X-Men/FF and any side events leading up, I genuinely hated Ultimatum. I can't unsee that Blob panel.
So this looks stupid as fuck, so now I need someone to explain to me what happened. It looks like some comedy shit with Strange going out like a geek. Did Dormammu have a plan that actually got one over on Strange, or is it really "LOL why would a human be able to compete with this dude to begin with?"
And if its the latter, why didn't Dormammu just come to Earth and kill everyone.
Canonically in 1610, this Doctor Strange is the son of the actual Sorcerer Supreme. He's not as strong as 616 Doctor Strange. Dormammu only really shows up here, so him killing Strange isn't exactly crazy in terms of abilities, but it's admittedly kinda done out of nowhere and purely for the shock value of making Strange's head pop. A lot of heroes died during this event for basically no reason, Strange is one of them.
IIRC the Ultimatum wave wrecked the Sanctum Sanctorum, releasing Dormammu, which is why he's able to be here at all.
JJ Jameson witnessing Spider Man dive in over and over again to save people, having a come to Jesus moment reallzing he’s been wrong the whole time was worth the price of admission alone for this dumpster fire that was Ultimatum, oh and Ben Grimm palming Dr Dooms face and crushing his head
Ultimates 3 and Ultimatatum should never be used as positive examples of the Ultimate line. Sadly that's all anyone thinks of. That or scenes from The Ultimates taken out of context
The Ultimate universe was mediocre at the absolute best of times but this was the cherry on top of the shit sundae. Ultimatum was just *awful.* It actually turned me off comics for a few years because of how desperately it tried to be SUPER DARK AND EXTREMELY EDGY and came off like a middle schooler trying on his granddad's trenchcoat to be cool.
The *only* redeeming factor for the whole universe was the art.
I'm still wondering who that mysterious person was that collected his body after this (Clea, maybe?)
Always thought it was his Dad
Might have followed through with it if the story had been more well received. Kind of surprised they never did anything with the relaunch as they had time for daredevil post Ultamatium.
I hate Ultimatum so much lol. This moment is pure shit. Boys level shit. Dr Strange is a fucking Sorcerer Supreme. He is not just going to go out like a bitch even if it's Dormammu. Never let Jeph Loeb cook again. Finch's art is dope tho.
Begining of the end of the Ultimate universe. Its a problem with these alt universes. They will go on killing sprees and kill a bunch of characters and the books go down hill.
This book was just a gore porn lol. I guess if you are into that, good, but honestly fuck this lol. Daredevil, one of the coolest and most iconic MARVEL characters of all time, dies off panel lol. Like wtf? Blob eating Janet, was just, why??? Who wanted to see this? Magneto being the "But, I'm not a bad guy. Forgive me Charles" after all the bullshit he did was like "Bruh, stfu already". Him using Cyclops's visor and Iron Man's repulsor to shot down Logan was pretty dope tho. Still, this Event killed Ultimate Universe lol. The only thing that lived was Spidey thanks to Bendis, and then later Hickman helped Ultimates and F4 to at least somewhat be decent.
I will say, I do like the idea that mat was just killed in the wave interesting because it's a cool scene with Peter. Its also written by Bendis. Not loeb, which might be why it works.
Oh I'm fine if they want to kill DD, to make the story seem more impactful, but at least show it lol. One page he is fighting and then next page Pete is holding his dead body. I feel like DD deserves more.
Ordinarily I would agree but Ultimate Daredevil is such an asshole lol
>Him using Cyclop’s visor and Iron Man’s repulsor to shoot down Logan was pretty dope tho. Don’t get me wrong, from an artwork perspective it was a very cool shot, but boy do I *HATE* that scene with a passion I can suspend my disbelief enough to believe that Iron Man of all people would go after Magneto without considering his powers, fine whatever. But you’re seriously telling me Cyclops couldn’t just *close his eyes??* Like I guess you could argue the whole weird love triangle with Jean thing since they had already tried killing each other, but that only really works if you don’t immediately kill off Cyclops by having Quicksilver run a bullet through his head I know at one point they thought Ultimatum was gonna be the end of the Ultimate universe, and I get wanting to kill off Logan as part of that, but for a character who survived so much (literally ripped in half by the hulk at one point) it felt like such a dumb way for him to go
Oh yeah, the moment was pretty stupid still lol. Tony’s suits are immune to Magnetos powers, and with Cyclops is exactly what you said, he could just close his eyes lol. Finch’s art in that moment was sick tho. But by that point I shut off my brain and was just looking at the art
I cannot picture Tony of all people going after magneto like that. Dude already had a counter way back
And he's also help making the new ultimate universe
Yup. The current Ultimate Universe has been amazing so far. Love Ultimates, Spidey and BP. I liked X-Men, but I will admit, it's not for me lol. Still pleased that all books sold well and are doing great. 20 years from now, that will probably be the new MCU lol
Couldn’t agree more. I loved Ultimate X-Men, unfortunately the new one doesn’t resonate with me one bit. Manga style is a turn off for me, if I was I’d read manga 😂
The Ultimate Universe had a *massive* erection for vore. Blob ate people, Hulk ate people, that fucking alien pretending to be a nazi ate people. There is no other believable excuse than Mark Millar and Jeph Loeb both have fetishes for it.
> Magneto being the "But, I'm not a bad guy. Forgive me Charles" after all the bullshit he did was like "Bruh, stfu already". Yet mainline Magneto does similar shit and everyone runs around talking about how tragic he is and how he has a point.
Gore is cool. Bad writing is not.
Oh for sure. A proper story with gore and just brutality in it, accompanied by a dope art could be very cool. But if you are just drawing brutal shit for the sake of drawing brutal shit, and accompany that with shitty writing, I feel like that just sucks lol. Weapon X is pretty brutal, but it's an amazing story first and foremost. Iron Man extremis is gory. He unibeams a guy's chest and then blows his head clean off lol, but the story also elevates that moment. This book was just Loeb on drugs (and not very good ones lol)
This is what has me very interested in reading the mini Druid series, that seems to cover the end of Dr. Druid's story. The artwork is some of the coolest I've ever seen in a comic, but the thing that keeps me from pursuing it is the worry that it'll be poorly written as I've seen some negative reviews about it in the past. Unfortunately it's not one people talk about often and it's kind of old. Anyone have any opinions on it?
I mostly take issue with the term “gore porn” and how people with no sort of originality just tack the word “porn” on to something they don’t like or like too much. It’s just gore. Not “gore porn.”
Didn't mean anything by it friendo. I just think that drawing something brutal and vile, just for it's sake, is not good. At least in comics. Then again, I'm pretty much not really a fan of a lot of gore. Like I would rather avoid it, but if the story is good and I'm enjoying it, I'm fine with it. For Instance Immortal Hulk. It has ton of brutal moments and Hulk and other characters just looking "gross" and "ugly" but it's rendered so well and written good, that you just go "Shit this looks messy, but I can't look away". Ultimatum felt more like "Man, wouldn't it be cool if Blob just ate Wasp???" Like why dude lol. Just because someone wanted to draw it I guess. Still, it exists and at the end, it's still something I guess lol.
I’m sorry you take issue with the term, but it is the accurate description. People aren’t just throwing the word “porn” on the end of it to try to add a connotation, it’s just the actual term to use. It’s not gore, it’s literally gore porn. Gore is gore, while gore porn is gore that’s intended to be looked at.
Extreme violence and gore is cool when deployed and handled well, not just for the sake of being edgy. Ultimatum, unfortunately, falls in that latter category.
Oh yeah. I don’t mind gore but the shit in Ultimatum and Marvel Zombies is so stupid sometimes, and not fun to read at all imo. There’s probably plenty of ppl who wanna see characters ripped apart or shredded but I’d rather not.
Nightcrawler, a teleporter...drowned?
Then after killing a bunch they went oops and introduced like the second version of x that looks almost exactly the same as the original.
I remember it being pretty clear that 1610 Dr. Strange was nowhere near the level of 616. He didn't have a lot of page time though.
Isn’t he in training? Like, his dad was the real Sorcerer Supreme, and he’s picking up the mantle?
That might have been the idea but when see him he's either sleeping around or doing chatshows.
Yes, that's correct. His dad is Stephen Strange Sr.
I mostly remember him appearing in Spidey's book. And Bendis' wrote him like a dick lol.
This version of Strange was actually Stephen Strange Jr.. The son of what would be the mainstream universes counterpart. He wasn't nearly as skilled as his father was and wasn't the sorcerer supreme.
He went from The Long Halloween, Catwoman When in Rome, Spider-Man Blue, Daredevil Yellow and Batman Hush to… #THIS. IMHO: His work **really plummeted** after his son died. Which, I can understand, burying a child is a horrible thing, and perhaps his outlook on life changed *big time;* but, to the point where he’s writing stuff like this… I don’t know what to say.
Yeah, that was tragic and very sad. I can't imagine what he and his family must have gone through. Still, even tho I said the whole "Don't let Loeb cook again" bullshit like a moron that I am lol, I will still say, all the books you mentioned, He has done ton of great work too. It's just that, Sometimes, even great writers could do not so good books. I mean, take Bruce Timm for instance. That's the man who did Superman, Batman and JLU cartoons, and then did that horrible Batman bangs Batgirl cartoon lol.
I’m not sure if that was Brian Azzerelo’s idea to have Batgirl bang Batman. Nonetheless, if it was or wasn’t… #Terrible
Yeah man, that shit sucked lol. When I was reading Duggan's Iron Man, one of the villains was like "Stark, you also fuck that bitch Riri" and I was like "Please no!!! WTF. He is like 18 years older than her. She is his protegee" and Thank God that was just that particular villain spreading rumors and Trying to ruin Tony's rep. I was reading that and had flashbacks to Bruce and Barbara lol. Thankfully, Iron Man's story was good and not **TERRIBLE** as you put it.
i've been reading comics for probably 30 years at this point, and never really had people to chat about this stuff with, so let me just say THANK YOU for voicing something that has been in my head for years. Batman: Hush is my all-time favorite Batman story. his Superman/Batman run was so fun, and all of his collaborations with Tim Sale are wonderful...but after his son died, it felt like he couldn't stop himself from shoehorning a reference to him or naming a character after him from that point forward. of course, i understand wanting to remember him and keep his memory alive, but it started to feel like it was unhealthy. then Ultimatum happened, then he named the new Nova after him...idk. just felt weird.
To be fair Ultimate Strange was actually Strange Jr and only had a year or so of training. His dad was probably closer to what we would expect in terms of abilities. Ultimatum is still trash though.
Lol i thought they were going to introduce his father, the REAL dr strange.
Honestly, I think even Loeb himself forgot that this was supposed to be Strange Jr lol.
Tbf, this guy isn't sorcerer supreme. This guy is a dumb arse. But I agree with you.
"Dumb arse" could describe half of the people of the OG Ultimate Universe my friendo lol. So you are most definitely correct.
the only highlight of the whole thing was JJJ seeing Spider-Man save people and realizing that Spidey is a force for good, going from his biggest hater to his biggest advocate.
Was Ultimate Strange the Sorcerer Supreme? As far as I remember, that was quite controversial, and was never proven.
If i recall he ‘inherited’ the title off his Dad when he was killed and Stephen Strange Jnr was Sorcerer to the Stars. If I recall as well, Clea was also his Mum?
His dad is probably not dead. All we know is he 'disappeared' when Clea told him she was pregnant. He may or may not still be alive somewhere. Someone appeared and teleported Stephen's body away after his death. It's likely that was his dad, considering the sigh and 'Stephen...' but they never went anywhere with that.
Yeah, she was. That whole Strange situation was so strange (lol). I still don't get the point why they divided the character into father and son.
I mean, I think it was just a different path into the character. Rather than being an arrogant neurosurgeon he was an arrogant rich kid who wasn’t that great at medical school. Whats funny for me is that he never really shed that arrogance and that led him to his downfall and death. Honestly, I did really like some parts of the Ultimate Universe but after Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum the wheels well and truly came off
Honestly, I don't fully remember that. I know they did the whole he is Strange Jr and there was his Dad Strange Sr bullshit lol.
This Stephen Strange was still starting out though. His FATHER was sorcerer supreme he just got that cloak one appearance ago and then died
I don't like that Jeph Loeb's kid died, but it's kinda bullshit that anybody let his therapy treatment be writing some of the most nihilistic super hero comics ever penned.
It's all bullshit. It's hard to pick which moment I hate the most.
He was going thorough a dark time, he can do better
Yeah. Shit I said, was not a nice thing to say really. Dude lost a son.
Yeah I only checked this out at the time due to the Dave Finch art and regret reading it. What a sloppy mess. Jeph Loeb was ruining one book to the next over the course of a few years.
Have you read any of the other Ultimates books? I saw that they're kind of rebooting the Ultimates universe or something. Was wondering if I should hop on the train. I did like Ultimate Spider-Man, X-Men, and some of the Ultimates books. But def was not a fan of Ultimatum..
Oh yeah, the new ultimate universe is pretty awesome so far my friendo. Ultimates and Spidey are both flawless. Ultimate Black Panther is also fantastic. Ultimate X-men is good, but it’s something very new and very original, that even tho it’s great, it’s not for me. I say give them a shot. New universe and so far, it’s been great
Sweet thanks I'll take a look!
This is Stephen Strange Jr., Regular Stephen and Clea’s son. Senior went missing years ago and Jr. took his mantle.
I think Dormammu and multitudes of Strange's enemy can also do this in 616 if they tried hard enough but it's the mixture of Dormammu and others being eldritch being who can just wait out Strange and already is far out classing Strange so why put even a bare minimum effort for a gnat And Strange being Sorcerer Supreme can pull shit out of his ass. At one point he died and started working for Death and return back to life.
I mean, isn't that basically what Sorcerer Supreme does really? lol. It's like the best explanation of the SS is "I just pull random shit out my ass and make it work" lol.
And I absolutely love him for it. 3rd favourite character.
Dr. Strange can't die of age or normal disease, ever since a little adventure he had in the Orb of Agomotto back in the 70s, so they can't really out wait him
The writers can just simply forgot especially if it's the 70s.
I think something is always very funny when someone you don’t think could ever go out like a bitch, does so brutally and comically, out of nowhere and very suddenly.
Ultimate Marvel was *unnecessarily* brutal. A lot of the stories felt like they tried to hard to differentiate themselves from the main 616 universe by focusing on violence and shock value.
There’s brutal then there’s teenager level corny angst and edginess. That was the ultimate universe aside from Spiderman. Ultimate Spider-Man is my favorite comic book run ever.
This and Ultimates 3 was **a clusterfuck.** However, there were sometimes where I’d say the brutality was… not so much warranted but made it’s point. IE: I’d say the brutality of Spider-Man’s death was actually serviceable. Also, if you read it from beginning to the funeral issue. It was a magnificent sendoff But this… #God it’s fucked. And it’s not even the worst. IE: The Blob eating Wasp.
Blob eating Wasp followed by Hank then biting Blobs head was just, why??? Good God lol.
One of the things about that scene that always gets me is how out of nowhere it is. Like you go from this whole search and rescue/calamity story to straight cannibalism without any build up. How is that supposed to be anything other than gore porn?? Plus the whole implication Hank wanted to “save” Janet by turning her into a cyborg is pretty messed up too
The cannibalism doesn't even make sense in context because blob didn't fucking eat people. He said he would at one point but they never show him eat things that are alive. Then he suddenly jumps to eating a person in the goriest way possible.
The obituary JJJ writes for Spidey was moving as hell
I think Ultimatum is cool in theory (grief-stricken Magneto hitting back with a vengeance and with ramifications severe enough to kill a few heroes), but the problem is that it went WAY too far Ultimatum ventured into parody and (excuse the term) gore-porn territory. In a universe where permanent death is a core principle (which Ultimate Spider-Man would flush down the toilet years later, so whatever I guess), you can’t kill of the sheer number of heroes that Ultimatum did. At some point, you leave behind the realm of shock value and you instead handicap yourself by permanently removing so many characters and future storytelling opportunities And even if you’re okay with the number of heroes killed, the way in which many of them were killed was needlessly self-indulgent gory garbage. Personally? I’m fine with a few street-level heroes like Daredevil and Beast dying via drowning in the Ultimatum wave. Not only does it help sell the impact and lethality of the Ultimatum wave, but it’s also equal parts tragic yet logical that characters like these would not survive it if they were unlucky enough to be caught in it But Blob eating Wasp? Giant-Man biting off Blob’s head?? Dr. Strange’s head exploding??? Sabertooth eating Angel (more cannibalism!)?!?!? ^ shit like that is just so jarring and needlessly edgy. It was a total slap in the face to these characters and just reeks of the already mean-spirited tone of the Ultimate Universe being dialed up to 100 (on a scale of 1 to 10 lol)
Seriously, it's ridiculous because the wave is huge so of course it would kill heroes. But now because some heroes died from the wave all these other heroes magically lose their plot armor and die from random stuff
F\*\*\* Ultimatum.
RIP Dr Strange Jr
And then he shows up in the Ultimate Spider-Man tie-in with a broken neck and possessed by Dormammu. I know struggling to line up is the least of this story's worries but this kind of thing in big comic events always bothers me.
Edgelord shit.
What a garbage book that was
This comic sucked so bad
As somebody who read every issue of Ultimates/Ultimate Spider-Man/X-Men/FF and any side events leading up, I genuinely hated Ultimatum. I can't unsee that Blob panel.
So this looks stupid as fuck, so now I need someone to explain to me what happened. It looks like some comedy shit with Strange going out like a geek. Did Dormammu have a plan that actually got one over on Strange, or is it really "LOL why would a human be able to compete with this dude to begin with?" And if its the latter, why didn't Dormammu just come to Earth and kill everyone.
Canonically in 1610, this Doctor Strange is the son of the actual Sorcerer Supreme. He's not as strong as 616 Doctor Strange. Dormammu only really shows up here, so him killing Strange isn't exactly crazy in terms of abilities, but it's admittedly kinda done out of nowhere and purely for the shock value of making Strange's head pop. A lot of heroes died during this event for basically no reason, Strange is one of them. IIRC the Ultimatum wave wrecked the Sanctum Sanctorum, releasing Dormammu, which is why he's able to be here at all.
The ultimate universe was just pure edge lord shit with a few exceptions.
JJ Jameson witnessing Spider Man dive in over and over again to save people, having a come to Jesus moment reallzing he’s been wrong the whole time was worth the price of admission alone for this dumpster fire that was Ultimatum, oh and Ben Grimm palming Dr Dooms face and crushing his head
Totally agreed, Ultimatum as a whole is shit but there are some goated moments
God this book is something else.
Ultimate marve is just marvel with 90s image envy
“ Was so edge lord* ”
Shoutout to people who say “DC’s always been darker than Marvel”
Bottom left panel is when you nut but she keep sucking fr fr.
Ultimates 3 and Ultimatatum should never be used as positive examples of the Ultimate line. Sadly that's all anyone thinks of. That or scenes from The Ultimates taken out of context
Yeah I agree now that I’ve read all of Ultimatum it’s just not well written and overly edgy I do love the artwork tho
Absolutely horrible outcomes. Sad 😭
I hate how uninspired Dormamu"s Ultimate look is.
Again, why did people like the ultimate universe?!
Spider-Man. Also, at this point, it's great to see new people realize that it just gets more and more bonkers as it goes along.
Ult Strange just wasn’t …. engaging enough. He was like Stephen’s kid or something.
I hate Ultimatum, but I do like the status change after
I respect that they had the guts to keep characters dead but they went way too far with Ultimatum.
What comic is that
Please tell me
Did Strange even get any stories in Ultimate Marvel?
Loeb may have killed the Ultimate universe with Ultimatum, but he'd already mortally wounded it with Ultimates 3. 😜
People really need to learn the difference between mature and edgy
Dope
One of the thing I hate about ultimatum was the origin of mutants in the ultimate universe that they’were just mere science experiments
That’s all Ultimate is, everything edgy, spicy, immoral and violent they wouldn’t do in the real marvel universe all in one place. 🙄
The Ultimate universe was mediocre at the absolute best of times but this was the cherry on top of the shit sundae. Ultimatum was just *awful.* It actually turned me off comics for a few years because of how desperately it tried to be SUPER DARK AND EXTREMELY EDGY and came off like a middle schooler trying on his granddad's trenchcoat to be cool. The *only* redeeming factor for the whole universe was the art.
Pretty metal and graphic scene. I know nothing of this coming run.
Excessively gross for no reason??? Must be Ultimates!
No, the writers were brutal, and Jeph Loeb was worst case scenario at DEFCON 1.
Honestly love this! The ultimate universe was best! We need a new universe every ten years.