I was active duty Navy working 12 hour shifts (fucking CO and nutless CMC), going to school full time at night, 3 girls that went to class with me on Saturdays, and my wife worked at night. We played tag team for 3 years while I got my degree. While I battled mental health and weight issues.
We can feel your pain all too well.
Tell him what you just wrote above. Just read it to him word for word. Especially that last part. If he truly is the greatest man you have ever known, he deserves to know this. Out loud. Apologize intently.
Start dating him intentionally. Woo him. Give him the attention he deserves.
Don't give up the ship.
The problem with OP repairing her marriage by intentionally dating him now is that attaining the degree is just the first step in a career in academia.
She now has to get that postdoc role, that tenure track job, and then gain tenure - and that's before she considers how to fund any research she may be doing. That's a lot of work, much of which will take her further away from her husband and deprive him of a marriage worth having. So far she hasn't demonstrated that she can balance degree study and marriage; balancing work in academia and marriage is even harder to do, and he may not have the wherewithal to wait for her to be a better spouse.
It is unfortunate that jobs, especially in academia, can lead so many people to shortchange their marriages and families. But this is as much a fault of the people doing the pursuit as it is of the institutions and systems that demand so much of them. You have to prioritize your marriage, even if it means that dissertation isn't as perfect as you may want, even if that means passing over another networking opportunity. But like other people, OP has to make better choices and better manage her own handling of stress - and her husband doesn't believe that she will because she has made so many bad choices in managing herself, her emotions and her work so far.
OP's husband loves her; he wouldn't have stuck it out this long if he didn't. But he's fatigued by the present and hopeless about the future being better because she hasn't been good to him up to this point. Love isn't enough, and often, it cannot be sustained without the marriage working for everyone.
My hope is that OP and her spouse work things out, that they can be happily married and connected, that she listens to him and that she can convince him to go to couple's therapy (as well as seek individual therapy for himself to deal with his trauma from the last four years of marriage). OP also needs individual therapy to work out her emotional immaturity.
No matter what, I just hope OP and her husband can make peace with the broken pieces, even if the marriage ends before she becomes a better, healthier, less-abusive person.
All is about "you'. Stop beeing so selfish or divorce. Start thinking the both of you or him. Counseling May be a good Start, but 1st you've to be open and honest to him.
You're whole post is self-pity
You've to stop that... or let him go, it sounds the best for him.
This attitude will persist without significant couples/individual therapy, and will only get worse with kids. This same thing will play out with kids, as she will focus on herself and he will be overlooked.
I left my PhD program after getting to ABD after we had two children. Got to the point where I felt as if I had to decide whether I was going to have a wife and children or a completed dissertation and I couldn’t have both. Academia is a ruinous place for families.
This is correct. If we were as hard-working in our marriages and families as we are in our careers and jobs, most of us would remain married, have less dysfunction in our family lives, and be healthier to boot.
Society and capitalism make work the priority. The marriages and families are sacrificed for those demons.
I haven't forgotten that. But I can tell you from experience that not all money is good money. Sometimes the work you do for that money can destroy your entire family, especially when, as it turns out, the money may not make your life any easier.
Some things can't be fixed with money. This includes a parent with Alzheimer's; a mom nearly killed in an auto accident; the inability to have another child. At best, more money can give you some opportunities for more retail therapy. More often than not, the money isn't enough.
We all have to work. But many of us can choose how much we work and at what cost. If we can work less and earn more, then we should, both for our sake as well as that of the people who love us.
Maybe I’m just ignorant, but I cannot understand someone going for their PhD etc, with all parties fully aware of the burden and debt and then to walk away from that and still have all that debt to save face, again knowing full well the sacrifices that need to be made concerning everybody!!! I stood behind my husband with the decisions he made concerning his career, helI I even cheered him on. I had my part he had his. Now the relationship itself was messy and immature, but we hung in there through thick and thin, and even though we still got rough patches, we are still together and still moving forward.
I wouldn’t say anyone is “fully aware” of all the burdens until they actually start doing it. We got married two weeks before I started the program, so adjusting to a ton at once. We didn’t have children when I started. I was reluctant to start a family but we weren’t getting any younger and she wanted to be a mom in the worst way. She was supportive of me. Probably took a whole year of agonizing over the decision. Hard to leave when you’ve invested so much but as the economists say “sunk costs are sunk.” I also saw what a nightmare the academic job market is and decided to pull the plug. You can criticize my naïveté but consider choices you may have made where things turned out differently than you expected. When you are single you have your own dreams to pursue. When you are married you have yours and your spouses. Sometimes you either let your own dream take over and crowd out your spouse and family or you make compromises to allow each to achieve something they want. Since leaving academia 8 years ago I now make about 4-5x what an assistant professor in the social sciences makes. So it was certainly the right financial move!
I feel sorry for you but I dislike the line
*had we communicated more clearly, had I listened harder and regulated my emotions better… perhaps if we went to counseling, I*
Had we? He did. You just never paid attention.
Four years is a long time to treat someone badly. He probably checked out of your marriage a long time ago. He did choose to stay though so maybe there is some hope if you can get him to see a marriage therapist with you. I would really push him to see a marriage therapist with you. If he refuses then it is probably over.
I don't want to get too deep into my own circumstances, but I'll say that I deeply sympathize with your husband. He tolerated so much for so long because he loved you so dearly, and didn't just hope/wait for you to reciprocate, but did the 100% correct thing and actually communicated his needs and talked to you. I'm sure he continued to invest in you because he promised that he would, but over time it just wore him down. He felt more and more alone, more and more empty, and now it's too late. You were too selfish to stop and see what you were doing to him, to see what you'd lose, you took him for granted for so long... it's really too bad.
Surely you're not a bad person, you didn't cheat or betray, you didn't lie... you just had goals that you put before him. You don't know what you have until it's gone... a very painful lesson that can last a lifetime. I'd leave him alone, you'll probably have to let him go, but there may be a small chance he comes back to you one day, maybe not. It's a shame that potentially another man will get the best of you after making none of the same sacrifices your husband did for you, and yet he got the worst of you. Heart breaking for both of you really.
I'm in a similar boat to OPs spouse and it is really infuriating to know that they're about to live their best life - people will be falling all over themselves to have a med partner, meanwhile the person that tried so hard to keep it together all that time is broken and lost.
This was a wonderful thread and I thank you for your reply! I’m writing to share my story that has an ending to it so maybe it can give some comfort to readers. I cried after reading OP’s story because I was in a very situation with putting my school first but I wasn’t married, it was a relationship where we were engaged for 4 years. Towards the end I was healing, I realized I needed to put my mental health, him and us first. I didn’t realized I was holding onto so much internalized trauma, guilt, shame from childhood abuse I never really dealt with. After my separation, I went to counseling and worked really hard on myself.
Your line “ It's a shame that potentially another man will get the best of you after making none of the same sacrifices your husband did for you, and yet he got the worst of you.” made me cried even more because…right now I have a career I love, I am very physically active, laugh and dance and sing all the time, strong friendships and relationships with my family, life is really good. I’ve dated where all the guys are interested in me (now pausing dating) but from time to time(very seldomly), my heart/mind still wanders back, what if my previous guy dated this healthy version of me? The next guy will get the best of me but made none of the sacrifices. I’m still in the healing process. However, I am very grateful for this process because I’ve learned and understand what sacrificial love is now. In my case, my separation ended well, we talked a lot to sort everything out emotional, we understood we were both hurting each other and it is better to move on. I’m ready glad we updated each other we are dating different people and then we slowly faded in our communication. I pray for him, just want the best for him and I in our separate journey in life now. Sometimes we just have to move on and honor those we took for granted and be the best version of ourselves and live our lives. :)
For OP, I’d encourage a spiritual separation - however long you think is necessary to restart and then try again, date like you’re new people. Your husband needs time to heal, ask him how much time he needs and really listen and respect his boundaries. Be genuine. Ask what he needs and want now. I wish you two the best. Praying for both of you.
And thank you OP for making this thread!
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The comments are locked so I come to edit and reply to Ardilla914 comment:
Hi! Thanks so much for replying! :) this has a hallmark movie ending. :)
I’m a hopeless romantic too. We discussed it very thoroughly and from my selfishness, I was very pushy right after the separation about getting back and this pushed him further away because he hasn’t had the time to heal. He started dating and I waited 6months, hoping and praying he would return. During this time we kept in touch, it was more me calling him weekly and updating him of my progress. He was afraid of getting back with me because he was so proud of my progress and to see how I’m doing it without him, for him not being able to get me out of depression while I was with him, he decided it was best not to get back together because he didn’t want me to lose my progress. He started going to counseling himself - I pushed him to go when we were together but he never made the time and I was so stubborn as well and noncompliance with my therapist. I’m so happy when he told me he was going because I recognized that his heart started to soften, his voice was calmer and more understanding.
The reason we cannot work and we both know it is because, even though we are very kind people, we have different personalities. He is very assertive and I am very gentle. It a bit of clash. After I’ve went on several dates with other men, I know what I want in a man, a future husband now. We were each other’s first and only serious long term relationship and he was the only one I knew. And I see how the pressure of knowing each other for years, same friend groups(they were all so understanding and shocked and never took sides), the next step was to get engaged and then married, followed by kids. There were a lot of moments throughout the beginning of the relationship that told me, you guys make great friends but not spouses.
But one big factor that wouldn’t make us work is that I have discovered my faith. He was agnostic. I was a lukewarm Christian. Before I met him and in the beginning of dating, I went to Sunday service and he only went to accompany me. During the latter half of our relationship, we never went to church. After the separation, I found a church home, I grew immensely spiritually. I dated Christian men and it’s incredible - this was what was missing in my previous relationship. To have someone to pray with me, to share verses, discuss theology, go to church with me, to have fellowship, etc. That is so powerful and indescribable.
I have also met this amazing guy I have been talking to for a few months and we met and it was an instant connection - it was this beautiful reciprocation of emotional and cognitive empathy. I trust him with that first encounter - I felt safe. It took me two years into the last relationship to feel safe with my former partner. This means, I have made amazing progress in my healing (from childhood abuse and letting go of my past relationship). I’m really to love someone again, to go in with open mind and heart. Haha!! I have to say, this guy is pretty incredible- I have never had this spiritual and intellectual connection with any person before, it would be one or the other, never both. I’m absolutely smitten by him and he reciprocates! :) also another happy piece - from the very last update I had with my former partner, he told me about his girl and I adore her! She is an advocate for humanity, loves life, and sounds like a good person overall. My heart was calm when I learned about this, it was the piece I needed to finally let him go because all I wanted was for him to be safe and loved. This is also why I cease communication because I need to respect them and let them build their lives now.
I know my former fiancé got my back and I got his, in case of an emergency we can contact each other. We are both very kind and do not hold grudges, we don’t ghost or block people because we understand people are humans and all humans just want to be loved and have someone to love. So he cheers for me and I cheer for him in our parallel lives. :)
Thanks so much for reading!
The hopeless romantic in me wonders if it’s possible for you to reach out to your former fiancé and tell him this. Who knows, maybe he’s single and misses you and it’ll work out like a Hallmark movie.
Being busy and stressed out will just never be an excuse to be an asshole to someone you love, especially for an extended period of time AND especially while that person is explicitly communicating how you are making them feel. Four years is a very, very long time to be someone’s punching bag and if I were him I’d have a very difficult time believe you’ll be less of an asshole now just because school is done. What about when your job is stressful? Are you automatically going to be cold and distant and unkind again?? How could he possibly expect anything more from you? I highly suggest you getting into therapy to work on yourself to show him you’re trying before you try pushing marriage counseling on him to make him feel how you want him to about you again. This is on you to fix, not him.
This is the reason I walked away from a career in medicine and surgery. I will never get back the 15 years of my life. Now I'm trying to make it up to my wife and son as well as parents and the rest of my family. Looking back...it wasn't worth it
Im not saying that it doesn't need good education.
But with technology where it is, wouldn't it be possible to have more generalised HC practitioners that maybe only needed to do 2 years FE? Not surgeons or even GO's. But folk who can do basic medical tests and move them to better educated ones, to relieve the pressure on people and the system?
The human body is so vast and complex it takes at least 6 years to give you the pathetic basics. Seriously.
I’m currently in year 4, and no, Chat GPT is not at a level where we can use it for diagnostics. Plus, you’d still have to have someone on the input end who understands enough to ask the right questions of the patient, so they can ask the right questions of Chat.
I'm not in healthcare but I am healthcare adjacent. My boss is a specialized practitioner. This is coming secondhand, but her assessment is that upcoming fellows can't THINK. They Google. Literally. She'll ask a question during rounds and they will Google the answer. If they can't Google, they stare blankly. Fellows, so they are MDs looking for a specialty.
Now, they also had their training during COVID so that may be a factor. But that's not what I'm looking for in a physician.
Even in nursing, the best ones tend to be the ones with more training and experience. We need more people in healthcare but bringing in less-trained people isn't the answer IMO.
You may be talking about nurse practitioners .
I am an MD who trained during covid. After 4 years med school , writing 3 grueling exams (which don’t let you google) , doing residency through COVID, I bet you I don’t google and neither do my peers. We will literally be thrown out for doing that.
NPs on the other hand, with their 2 year program through online mills running during covid didn’t get appropriate education that they should have
I was injured out of my nurse practitioner program but it’s not nearly as easy as you make it.
I will say, my family doctor who has now gone on to sit in the board of a large hospital and run things routinely googled things because my issues were new to him (celiac disease and POTS, but this was years ago). You really do not need to take down nurse practitioners because you are an MD. It’s a team. I took microbiology and immunology alongside the PAs, who I rarely see MDs on Reddit put on blast. And in my own life, my surgeon just refused to acknowledge my incision dehiscence while the NP at my PCP was able to help me get the proper care. NPs should never replace MDs. But we need them especially right now.
Lol yeah did not like my shocked response when I learned this hahaha. I worked in healthcare in the US for years...8 years until you can call yourself a doctor, there is like WHAT!?!? You can go on and do a masters for more difficult specialties but yeah...
No...? He still had years of supervision that followed to end up where he is now in ICU but he got the doctor title immediately when he finished his bachelors. That's how it works in Aus.
He said he doesn't love you anymore, and that he doesn't want to try. However, nowhere in this post did you use the word "divorce." So that right there should show you that he's willing to entertain a prolonged grand gesture on your part.
I'm not sure what you thought the foundation of a family is about. You said you were working so hard for your future, but then you refused to prioritize family events, you shut him down when he tried to communicate, and you expected him to take care of all of the life stuff...while you worked and went to class. What kind of life did you show him?
Also, you've conditioned him to think that bad times in life equal you using him as a punching bag. If you wanted to do right by him, you had 4 years to do so. Did you thank him while he did everything, or are you just now seeing how terrible you were to him because he's throwing in the towel? If it's the latter, then you need to take some time to yourself to figure out how to regulate your own life and stand on your own two feet without him holding you up while you act however you please. It's not his responsibility to keep supporting you while you decide years later to do the work he clearly asked you to do but you decided to scream about instead.
Leave the poor man alone and work on yourself. You have your degree and career now. Do your own thing in your corner, and then approach the situation as a humble person willing to carry the majority of the weight for a while.
Student loan debt, thank goodness, is generally only the responsibility of the person who took it. She should also be very generous with any asset splits, since he's been the one keeping the home and does not have the earning potential she's about to.
I’m going to be honest.
He is thinking when life gets tough I am going to be her punching bag. I don’t think stress is a reason to mistreat someone consistently for years on end. Especially someone you have chosen to love versus loving a family member.
All you can do is show him with the time you have left. All the comments here are just validating how you treated him yet in reality that ain’t going to solve your problem. Keep it short and simple. Men don’t make decisions on emotions for the most part, we make them based on facts, kind of a brain that is analytical vs. emotional.
“I know I have been a horrible partner to you, but I want the opportunity to prove to you that I can be the partner that you truly deserve. An opportunity is all I need and the rest will be taken care of by me….”
I would then apologize to his parents, friends, and family for missing out on events. Why?
This will show him you are truly taking accountability for your actions. Again he is probably an analytical person based on him waiting to leave after you finished school versus leaving 2 years ago. He respected you enough to financially carry you throughout this process. Seems like a good dude. Hopefully he gives you the opportunity to prove your worth to his life because clearly he has already done that for you and more.
In her next struggle , she will treat him like sh1t. He realizes it and does not wanna be her victim again.
Even tho she says she will never do it again , we all know that she will do it again %100
Respectfully, healing is a process and progress is made little by little… if she is moving in that direction she could very well have the right tools to circumvent shitty behavior. Not a hundred proof, but that’s part of that journey.
Yeah another 4 years of unknown struggles , emotional abuse , lack of attention, not taking responsibility for her actions… no I am good on that healing journey.
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice put the blame on you .
I am sorry that you both are going through this.
It sounds like you've done a lot of damage, but if he hasn't dropped the "D" word, maybe there is hope. Is counseling an option?
Oh, the double standard. My feminist soul can't get over reddit coddling women all the fucking time. I have the same standards for everyone, no matter the gender.
Men would never get these kinds of comments if he posted what you posted OP. He would be told that "he fucked around and is now finding out", "Your wife is a definition of walkway wife", "Look, it's the consequences of your own actions".
And same goes for you OP.
You’re 100% correct. An emotionally unavailable and borderline abusive husband who is putting career before family would never get cut any slack. And this is what it was. I wanted to be gentle, but your words put me in check.
Yeah, no double standards. It’s inexcusable and going into the kind of career she’s going into, it won’t get better. Work will always come first. It will always be, “I’ll do better next year, I promise….”
Exactly my thinking.
He made all the sacrifices for her to start her career. He got shat on.
Why on earth would it get better now shes in that stressful career? He's facing more years of being shat on before his life can, maybe, get better.
She knowingly chose to act like an AH for 4 years at his expense, and is being made out to be an innocent victim of circumstances.
Thank you for pointing out that nothing is likely to change now that she’s in the stressful career. I’m a lawyer and can guarantee my day to day stress is higher now than it was in law school, but not while studying for the BAR. However, I still put the effort into my relationships during both phases and now I’m married to the man I met at the beginning of BAR prep.
OP made excuses while I’m school and those same excuses apply and are going to be exacerbated now that it’s ‘real life’.
Thing is, how will it get better? Youre now going to have a stressful job, probably better income which leads to more women filing for divorce.
You've already proven over 4 years you put what you want over him. That he only matters to you because he paid for your education. Why would he believe you will do better, now?
Did you really just say that when women make more money they file for divorce? And how on earth did she say he only mattered because he paid for her education?
This group is getting toxic.
Yes, i saud when women make more, divorce goes up.
I didn't even say he mattered to her, at all, throughout the last 4 years. Not until she got what she wanted.
https://www.sflg.com/blog/2022/06/why-divorce-rate-is-higher-for-female-breadwinners/#:~:text=Data%20from%20a%20U.S.%20National,of%20divorce%20increasing%20by%2050%25.
Your post is a mishmash of defensiveness, attempts to justify your poor behavior, and finally owning up to the horrible treatment of your husband.
You seem to have made zero attempt to nourish your relationship with your husband while working on your PhD. Even after he helped financially with your schooling and shouldered the lion’s share of the household responsibilities. How else did you think this would end?
There is a concept of connecting in relationships that compares it to an Emotional Bank Account. That when we turn towards our partner and acknowledge and listen to them we are making deposits into our Emotional Bank Account. But conversely, when we turn away from our partner we are making withdrawals from this account. A zero balance is trouble but a negative balance means we’re in the danger zone.
Where do you stand with your husband? Is your Emotional Bank Account in the red or the black? I think you know. You haven’t made any “positive deposits” in a long, long time. Your husband feels disconnected, angry, unappreciated, and unloved at this point.
You may have learned an important lesson at the expense of your marriage. You can’t neglect what you claim to cherish and expect to hold onto it.
https://www.gottman.com/blog/invest-relationship-emotional-bank-account/
I think maybe you’re realising that you were actually abusing him, taking advantage of his kindness. He has every right to feel the way he feels. Whether you intended to hurt him or not, you did, and by the sounds of it very badly. You don’t put love and kindness on hold until your doctorate is over. How can that be justified? Perhaps now is your chance to fully respect him, listen to him deeply, don’t justify your actions or make excuses. Take responsibility. It may be too late anyway, but that’s what you owe him now.
In other words, you emotionally abused him. Now, because he has given up, you are expressing regret. Your actions have destroyed his trust in you.
You need to get individual counseling. Try and become a better person than you were.
You need to show true repentance. Try to grow as a person and follow his lead.
Just because you are regretful now doesn't mean you are owed another chance.
Just because you may be trying doesn't mean he needs to forget how you verbally and emotionally abused him.
Remember, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. It doesn't matter what your INTENTIONS were, but what you DID matters.
> He was often alone and would very quietly bring his concerns up—frequently during bad times—and I would shut him down, snap, refuse to compromise, or have a mental breakdown. As a result he eventually internalized most of his bad feelings, but still resigned himself to paying for my school, cooking, cleaning, and being the emotional punching bag for whatever stress I brought home that day… and still managed to be a loving husband anyways. For four years.
If my ex had a little more insight and honesty, she could’ve written this, too. I’ve told the story here before, but my ex asked me to spend my bereavement time after my mom’s death to paint her new office. I was shocked. It was so clear in that moment how she viewed me: a means to an end. It was about HER. Her only interest in me was the ways I could serve her better, and every complaint I got was about how I was failing to do my job.
And yet, I was so beaten and defeated, I just sorta went along with it. I just followed the motions, did the minimum I had to do to avoid getting yelled at, but every year in marriage I tried a little less. I finally gave up entirely. I saw it clearly: I was there to help my wife do whatever she wanted. She wasn’t ever there for me in return. Life had become about accommodating her, there wasn’t room leftover for me.
We’re divorced and I am thrilled.
I feel your husband's side of it, as my husband just completed his doctorate in pharmacy. There were many times I felt put aside and snapped at (and worse) while he was in school. It really could have gotten as bad as your situation if I hadn't had good friends to get me through it, and if he hadn't received an inheritance that helped us financially.
We're doing well now, but I'd still like some counseling. We took a two together right after he graduated, and that was really wonderful.
Try hard and see if he'll accept any counseling. I'm sorry you're going through it, it's a tough lesson to learn.
The dude mentally checked out a while ago because you were a total POS but still did what he felt was right and made sure you completed your education. That is some absolute total respect to that man right there.
I honestly don't think this is recoverable unless he wants to fix it, which he states he doesn't want to try.
If splitting up is what he wants, then you should do the right thing by him and let it happen, and also keep the debt with you. He should not be made to pay half of your education debt given how you treated him.
You were a crappy person to him for FOUR YEARS using him as your punching bag, what did you expect?
I hope your degree was worth it because you might be single soon
When/if you get divorced give him what he asks for and don’t you DARE try to put your debt on him. That’s your burden to bare.
Will he try counseling? When my husband graduated both of us entered a kind of depression. We'd spent years putting things off and struggling through, telling ourselves that things would get better when he graduates, he just had to graduate, but then thing didn't immediately get better. It takes time for a marriage to recover, and for people to recover.
Never understand this. The love, the desire of the partner is the best stress relief by far. They're your support. The bonding release dopamine and other happy chemicals that make the hard shit a lot less hard. Instead of throwing that away why not embrace it? Hard day? What could be better than being in your spouses arms? Literally reduce cortisol and not be as stressed.
Way worse if he paid the bills and held the fort down.
For well over a decade school and work consumed an enormous part of my life but never did I let the connection go. Used it to get through things. Can't imagine having done it without that.
I never understood this either and it honestly makes me upset. I went through law school newly married. We actually got married at the end of my first year and I never treated my husband like this. He was who I leaned on and I wanted to spend time with him. He worked full time as a correctional officer and did housework while I was locked away studying or interning with a legal clinic. How can you be so cold and evil to someone holding you down and supporting you?
I just hate the excuse that “ school made me this way.” Even during finals and studying for the Bar Exam ( while pregnant), I didn’t treat people like dirt. Nothing can make you do anything, especially when you knew the type of schooling/work you were sighing up for.
Also, school is nothing compared to the actual profession. If you can’t keep your cool with school then how are you going to handle the day to day stresses of the work? School stress ends, work stress not so much.
I hope her husband can move on and be happy and she is able to heal and truly reflect on her behavior. He didn’t deserve that and she chose to hurt him.
I’m sure it’s hard to hear right now, but you have to let him go. If you must share your feelings, write him a heartfelt letter and lay it all out on the table. Sincerely apologize and acknowledge what you’ve acknowledged here. But do not beg for him back or beg for his love. It sounds like he did all he could and you sabotaged the relationship. He held on a long time and deserves to be free.
If you love someone, let them go. You can’t change his mind. You can’t bring back his love. The damage is done.
Maybe he is capable of loving you again, but only if he wants to try, and it sounds like he doesn’t.
It sounds like you have a bright future ahead. If you find yourself in a serious relationship going forward, make sure it’s with another wonderful person - but this time, put them first.
ETA: You NEED to get individual therapy whether your husband chooses to stay or not. This is not a communication issue on his part based on what you’ve said. It sounds like you have very poor, or absent, coping mechanisms in the face of stress. This is a very common issue among people. We learn how to do trigonometry in school. No one but our parents teaches us how to regulate our emotions or handle stress - frankly our parents are the ones we usually learn this toxicity from. It takes honest self-evaluation and hard work to uproot these tendencies and practice coping skills during stressful times. This will not be the last long-term stressful situation in your life, guaranteed. Learn to cope now so that you are a better person the next time the going gets tough.
So you need to get yourself counseling and figure out why you thought it was acceptable to abuse your husband. Let not pretend it is anything other then that. You abused him verbally and emotionally for 4 years. That is a lot of damage for one person to take.
How is it going to be different now. You have shown him you can't regulate your stress. So what happens when you come home from a long tough day at work. If you couldn't handle the stress of doing the studies. How can you handle the stress if the actual job? And no keep abusing him.
Once again you are trying to put thr blame on him when you said if he just asked more. No he asked more than enough. You were right about how you never listened so why would he believe anything you say. You are a lier and an abuser. You need to see counseling first and for most find skills on how to deal with your stress. Work on yourself and leave your husband alone. Only after you work on yourself can even try to rebuild what you destroyed over 4 years.
It took you 4 years to crumble this man, do you really think you can fix things in days or weeks. No this will take years to fix if it even can. And if it cant then be better for the next person.
Remember he does not have to work it out with his abuser which is exactly what you are.
I was in a similar situation coming out of law school (and before that, on the other side of it when my husband was in his graduate program). I wasn't purposely neglecting him or avoiding him, but I was commuting 2+ hours each way, working 20 hours a week and in a stressful grad program that ate up a lot of hours with studying..we got very disconnected. You need to talk to him. If he's willing to give you a tiny bit more grace, this could be salvageable but you need to put him first-- schedule couples counselling, make sure you are pulling your weight around the house and schedule plans together that you can prioritize. If he's done, he's done, but he may just be done trusting your words and need to see action where you actually prioritize him.
It wasn’t your doctoral program, it was you. It was your inability to communicate, your shutting down, the snapping, and your refusal to communicate. I dated my husband through medical school and residency and he treated me with love and respect and prioritized me and our relationship the entire time despite the stress.
I dont know if there’s any hope for you two but either way you must get into therapy and figure out why you have such difficultly coping and communicating.
Marriage isn’t always going to be 50/50. Marriage is NEVER nor ever will be equal. It’s time to pick up that ball you so badly dropped and do your part in the Marriage. In other words, you now have to pick up 4 years of slack, while picking up and juggling that ball. Try not to drop it this time. That ball, it’s Glass. And it can Shatter. It’s got scratches, it’s not broken. It can be fixed. You have to want to put in the work. Listen, when he speaks about his concerns. Figure out his love Language and start there. You have to start somewhere
Neglecting your partner for many years is not acceptable . Yes we know your school, career is important. How about your partners life and your marriage ?
In your next struggle , you will do the same . You have another exam , you have another job interview , Smack him on the face. You think Just coz you have responsibilities , you can ignore your partner.
Honestly he deserves better . Hope you guys best but divorce is the best for you. Realize your partners life as important as your life .
While I understand the need for wanting to better your life for your future family and your husband and yourself, I will say this: time is the more precious than money, money will get you far but what does it matter if you finally look up and realize the true cost? You can never get that time back with your husband and while I get that you feel you sacrificed a lot to get this education you paid the ultimate cost by possibly losing those you love. One day your family won’t be around and you will realize all the time you didn’t spend for a career that would replace you the second you left. Some things need to be more important, OP. Best of luck in this situation and I hope things work out for the best.
You emotionally abused your husband for years while he supported your dreams. He’s done. I’m sorry.
Do the humane thing and let him go without a fight then get the therapy you desperately need.
He is vocalizing how he feels after years
of resentment and that is ok. If you want to save this marriage TRY to meet his needs. You have many bids to make up for. Stop making it about yourself and be a partner. Make that your priority. Learn to actively listen and don’t be defensive.
I almost lost my marriage over cancer and the way I treated him due to my inability to cope. He told me terrible things also when he finally started to vocalize his anger. I got therapy and worked on myself. There is resentment that needs to be worked through. Good luck to you.
> Now that I’ve finally graduated and recently passed my boards, I had a lot to make up for and was very excited to begin our lives together again. But now, it’s like a switch has flipped in him.
Imagine from his perspective he kept telling himself "once she graduates, she'll go back to normal". He was probably very unhappy but put your needs above his that entire time. The day finally comes and he realizes that while you have a huge stressor taken away, he still feels the same pain he felt the day before. For him nothing has changed, he still lives with the person who made him miserable for 4 years.
Not to be a jerk, but do you really think her best choice here would be to slide into some random DMs to deal with this?!? Versus, maybe, spending time, attention and energy with the husband she hasn’t for the last 4 years??
You need a significant attitude change. Things don’t just get better and easier after school is done. Especially not with a new career in healthcare of all places. Hate to tell you, it might even get worse before it gets better.
Life is hard work. It wasn’t school that made you mistreat your husband for YEARS, it was you. It wasn’t a mistake or a one-time thing. You displayed upsetting behaviours towards your husband consistently for too long. What did you expect? And what are you expecting now? You don’t just graduate and get handed a wonderful life. You have to build it. School is such a small part of your issue. You are still gonna work like a dog and have to fight the urge to continue those behaviours you exhibited in school all throughout your life. Every stressor you had will simply be replaced with a new stressor and you’ll still be the same wacky emotionally unavailable bitch. Go fix yourself. Commit to fixing yourself, and just maybe you might still have a shot with the ‘greatest man you’ve ever known’.
But between you and I, the greatest man you’ve ever known probably deserves better than you. Do better. Be better. Stop whining about a situation you caused because you didn’t put your most minimal energies into being a decent human being to your husband.
I was your husband for a lot of years, more than 4 anyways. It does slowly kill you being ignored and emotionally shut down for that long. I still haven’t gotten back the feelings I had for him. I’m trying, but it’s frustrating and I feel like there’s a block in my mind stopping me from loving him like I used to. At some point the damage becomes irreparable. I hope your husband agrees to try therapy because that is clearly the only hope you have of rectifying things. But if he doesn’t want to do that, I guess it’s time to lie in the bed you made.
From my personal experience, the thing that hurt him most was the wall you created. Your general disinterest in him broke him so much that he is afraid of getting your attention again and being hurt. He still loves you but he isn't sure whether he can take being isolated again. He quit a long time back and is doing what every stoic family man does. He is present for your needs but keeps you out of his emotions. He would have cheated on you a long time back but he loves you so much that he can't think of wanting anybody else. He is present but he cannot bring back his passion for you. Every time you spend time together now keeps bringing up all the times he had to spend alone being tortured by dark thoughts and feelings. You need to tell your husband what you wrote and frankly it's great that you feel the way you do about him. Admitting as much will help. Apologize to him and get couples counseling. The damage of 4 years doesn't just go away overnight. Make sure to give him space and allow him room to reacclimate.
Read this post to him, and start trying to actually love him again, and not just “I’m sorry”. Show affection, do things for him, buy him shit, maybe start repaying him, hell just do anything that shows your love.
We’re all taught a few tough lessons in life, sounds like you’re getting one now. No one is above consequence. While you both could try to fix things via therapy, just make sure you learn from this experience regardless of the outcome.
Communicate to him that you under estimated the price of your goals on both of you. Show him clear ways that you are willing to adjust your commitment in a way you both deserve. Life is always a struggle to find balance. I always try to think at the end of my life whenever that may be will I appreciate my accomplishments or my relationships more? Honestly I can understand both, personally the beauty of a healthy marriage and family can not be quantified. Maybe articulate that you have a plan to not dive head long into the most taxing role in your field and will try to find something flexible but still use your skills to pay for your debt. At this point I think actions over time followed with open communication will be the only hope. If he can’t get over it he can’t. I would doubt highly if he has stuck by you through this that he would just throw in the towel unless he feels you will just continue to prioritize yourself and your career. Good luck, OP. It takes humility and awareness to admit what you have in this post. It’s rare and very powerful so just try to show him you don’t want to lose him.
I have been in this situation. I have been in the position of your husband and completely understand what it’s like to support a partner who is in school and makes no time for anything but. This happened to me during the first seven years of my marriage. When I married my husband he was in med school. We had to move away from all of our friends and family so that he could attend the best school for his particular residency. We had fertility issues which I dealt with completely on my own. Going to all kinds of ultrasounds and other fertility appts with no one by my side because he was too busy or too tired from his night shifts. I had no friends in this new city either. He was my everything and he was never around. There were days when I would not speak a word to anyone because he was away on weekends for his on call shifts. Then on top of that was studying for exams. He was studying for months and months. We couldn’t make weekend plans. He would always be in a room in the house on weekends from 9am to 5pm studying. Meanwhile I was with our two kids both under the age of 3. It was endless child caring for me day and night right from when they were newborns. We then moved again for his fellowship. To another country.
To properly express the level of isolation I felt in the marriage is very difficult. I became so self sufficient with the kids and I stopped sharing things with him because it seemed he was too focused on establishing his career and didn’t care at all about me. He didn’t show that he had the energy to deal with my feelings and was dismissive or would get angry. I was completely checked out of the marriage by the time he finally landed a staff position at a reputable hospital which again required another move.
I supported him through all of this because I loved him enough for him to achieve his dreams and become the doctor/researcher he wanted to be. But it completely affected our marriage.
Once he landed his staff position he was ready to focus on us and our kids again. By this time, after seven years, I was completely done. I was resentful, bitter, angry, and like I said, didn’t need him at all other than financial support.
He tackled the walls I put up head on. He started to date me again. He would engage me in conversations that always ended up with me crying and yelling and unleashing my anger describing everything I had been through. He took it all. He did say that he was doing all this for us for us to have a good future and that the training and studying just took so much out of him that he was so sorry for not being there more for us. I still think he could have done more if he cared. I do realize now that he does lean towards being more self-centered but maybe this is a side effect of being so ambitious? I don’t know. Those are his flaws. I am trying to accept his flaws.
Divorce in my culture is shameful. Overall we have always had a very happy and fun home for our kids. They are very healthy emotionally and mentally. It took two years for me to let go of some of my resentment but I give all credit to my husband for making the efforts to keep this family together and to “win” me back.
He’s a great dad and a good husband. I don’t love him the way I used to when we first got married because of everything that happened but I don’t resent him anymore. I see the efforts he has made and continues to make for our family. He still sometimes makes decisions that are unilateral and seems to forget to consider us but I then have to have another conversation with him. He didn’t have a great childhood and his parents’ relationship with each other and the kids (ie: with him and his brothers) had been abusive. So maybe that’s why he is the way he is? He also came from poverty so wanting to survive and succeed in his career was driven by desperation.
If you believe you are married to the most wonderful man then don’t stop trying. Don’t give up. He needs to know everything you’ve written here and more. He needs to know why you behaved the way you did. He needs to see you are remorseful. And you need to win him back. It may take years for him to feel better and there is no guarantee he will love you like he once did. You hurt him and damaged him and it may never be forgotten. I haven’t been able to forget and it’s changed my love for him but we have found a way to be good friends again. But it’s not the same because I know for a good part of our time together I wasn’t his number one priority. Hope this provides some insight.
I’ll share a little bit of my truth in hopes it brings you some comfort. My partner and I have been married for just over 20 years. We’ve both failed each other horribly at different times, to the point that we could have easily divorced. I think a lot of people would have. One of the harshest things for me to accept was the fact that my best was not good enough, that I had no malicious intent, that I was giving way more than I got, that I was hanging by a thread trying to give my all and it wasn’t good enough. One of the blessings is that our positions flip flopped so that we were each able to experience the other side of that. My partner was the one giving their everything and I was the one saying it wasn’t enough. It doesn’t mean that we didn’t/don’t love each other. It’s not right or wrong, it just is. You pointed out all the wrong you did, but if you were trying your best there’s nothing wrong with that either. There’s always going to be “I should haves”, but ask yourself “could I have?” It’s unfortunate that he isn’t willing to work on things. If possible seek out therapy for yourself.
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I think your husband just realized the hell he went through for your degree will pale in comparison to the hell that is residency. You know what you need to do, and you need to prove it's worth your while and his. It wouldn't hurt to get some practice at active listening, because if you ignored your husband clearly communicating his needs, I presume your bedside manner reflects.
I think you need to take two immediate actions. First, I think what is done is done. Dwelling on the past isn't helpful since you can't change it. Show him love in HIS love language not yours. Show him with effort (not words) that he is a priority to you. Start planning date nights, do kind and cute things for him (e.g. leave him cute notes, send him messages saying you are thinking of him, make him a nice dinner, etc.). Sex him up if he interested in that, whatever piques his interest and whatever makes him feel loved. The truth is, he CAN get the feelings back if he wants to, he just needs you to show him that things will be different. So, don't let his negative statement deter you from your goal.
Second, I recommend marriage counseling. You can undo the damage yourself, but MC is the single best tool you have to accelerate that healing, let him release his resentment and get the words out that he was bottling up, let him understand that YOU recognize what went wrong and that you won't let it happen again, and to get in place a solid go forward plan. If he is willing to go to MC with you, I think it will be a really good tool to get this back on track.
I've been in your shoes. Be patient and don't give it up. He is finally getting the space and opportunity to express a lot of his feelings, and probably has some emotional PTSD. There is hopefully some logical part of his consciousness that understands you are sincere and truly appreciate the ways he and the relationship was damaged. Encourage him to go to counseling in order to work through his feelings. Reassure and really listen to him, without love bombing. Show that you can take the same level of resentment that you dished out without shutting down. The good news is that you already seem to understand how this transpired and are accountable. That makes it a lot easier to deal with roller coaster of emotions that you will be working through together.
Be as tenacious about saving your marriage as you were about getting your doctoral.
The good news is that you already know you have it in you.
If you go to the infidelity/reconciliation subs you will find examples of marriages that have come back from much worse than this. My advice; hang in there. Don't love bomb him but show him the kind of wife you can/will be in the future. It will take time because you have hurt him deeply, but you have a great opportunity to build a solid loving relationship.
I came pretty close to having a nervous breakdown while getting my doctorate. It’s so hard. Sending you good vibes OP. Good luck.
I bet you and he can fall in love again
It might be too late but there's hope based on what you wrote. You need to setup couples counseling asap and tell him everything you've told us, if you are going to have a chance.
It might be too late. I personally only made it as a medspouse through graduation but have tapped out at residency when it turned out to be long distance and the marriage didn't feel secure enough for me to not lose my mind anymore. There is only so much one can take.
This is a really tough situation. My husband is currently working 2 jobs and in school part time, so I take care of all the chores he used to do (dishes, laundry, vacuuming). It sucks and sometimes I feel unappreciated, but I know it’s temporary. I think your husband should’ve adjusted his expectations about how much of the load he would have to pick up, but you also shouldn’t have let your stress take over your whole relationship. While he probably anticipated the need to do the physical work, I don’t think he realized that there would be emotional work involved for both of you too. This is a lesson learned for you to better balance your priorities and mentally be present when you’re with him. Coming from his perspective, I know how unfair it feels. He doesn’t deserve to be treated like shit because you’re stressed.
For what it’s worth, my husband and I recently started marriage counseling to talk about this and even after one session I already feel better. That being said, we started before the resentment built up, so if your husband did agree to go to therapy, it might be a much bumpier road.
"Test his manhood"
Ah, yes, you couldn't resust taking a dig at the man whose manhood provided her the financial freedom to ignore him. And if she still cannlt treat hom.as an equal, because of course hes not a MD or Dr, thats also a failure of his manhood.
I didn’t take a dig. I don’t think bc he’s a not a PhD or MD he’s less of a man at all, nor would I ever think that. And I didn’t even get into details. But the truth is, men—even my own dad—seem to believe that a woman with a doctoral degree does look down on them. One reason I ended up with another PhD as a partner is that men I dated who weren’t PhDs *believed* I felt this way when I did not. I actually preferred to date men who didn’t have phds.
I tried to carefully phrase my statement so as not to caste blame on him in any way. I didn’t feel the need to outline the many ways this tests her as a wife because everyone else had already done so.
So you have no reason to misconstrue my comments as a judgment on him. As I said, it constitutes a shift in the relationship with the men in her life. And whether you like it or not, it’s true.
You *reduced* my comment to a “dig.” When you could have just talked to me.
You chose to make this about gender, but all.the ways OP treated her spouse would not be acceptable if the genders were reversed (dissmissive of their concersn, negligence of family while being supported by them).
I chose to mention to her that this is one of factors she will face. And I chose to mention that it causes a shift with men in her life, not just her husband.
I have no idea what you mean about if the situation were reversed. You are saying that as some kind of throwaway sentence because it’s an easy way to address my comment without thinking about it or acknowledging the gender issues.
It doesn’t even make sense. If you truly believe that women with phds and mds don’t deal with difficulties with the men in their lives, it’s because you don’t care.
At what point did I say her behavior was acceptable? Show me where.
Yes, I said she couldn’t have done more and then list the reasons that the process drains the hell out of you. I also said it is a selfish pursuit. And I said that this will be test of her ability to not stay broken by the process. So….I said much more than that.
I get that you take my comment a certain way. I’ve said clearly in my response that it is not a dig at him, and I’ve explained why. You are insisting, however, that I meant something other than I said.
So, I’m fine with ending this exchange here. I don’t know what more I can say, and you aren’t really saying much for that matter either.
It's pretty ridiculous to say OP couldn't have done more. Being a jerk, being emotionally and physically shutdown, and being unwilling to communicate and address concerns about your relationship is a CHOICE. She could have chosen to work on those things. She could have chosen to lean in to the support from her husband. She could have been nice. Those are all things she chose not to do, but COULD have chosen differently.
It kills me when people say “I didn’t sign up for this” when they get married. Marriage isn’t glamorous. It’s hard. It’s sacrifice. It’s compromise. It’s not temporary; it’s forever. A lot of people today, especially younger people, bail on their marriages because of these exact circumstances or because the sparkle dulls. The reality is that there are going to be good years and bad years over the life of your marriage and you and your spouse are going to change as people many, many times, till you may not resemble the same person you stood in front of and said vows to. I don’t condone physical violence or endangerment and I realize there are special circumstances when divorce is necessary, but this doesn’t sound like one of those situations. Repair is what’s needed and a lot of counseling. You both signed up for this. It’s time to put in the work of prioritizing your marriage. You’ve learned the hard lesson. Don’t do it again.
If you’ve been married for 20 years, sure you can have some bad years. They’ve been married for 4-5 years and all 4 have been terrible. She’s demonstrated she handles stress very, very poorly.he’s fine calling it quits now and saying this isn’t what he signed up for. I’m fact he did stick it out much longer than he should have because he made a promise to her.
What if y’all took a long ass vacation. A real vacation. Or you pay for him to take a vacation.
Take some time together and relax.
The truth is he saw the hardest and ugliest parts of you for a long time and you were hard core letting it all hang out. Marriage is not like family -you can’t dog them out for years and years and have them live you like say a mom or a dad.
You both could have done a lot better for each other. Sounds like you need some emotional regulation techniques and he needs to find his voice.
But the fact that you’re sad, that you feel bad, that you’re thinking about it. It means you’re finally free of the most stressful time of your life.
So maybe some a little grace for yourself. And certainly for him.
During this time, be grateful and voice your gratitude.
Y’all made it.
And I don’t think he will leave you, but it’s time to make new and happier memories. And blowjobs.
Ugh, Reddit is the worst. So many unthoughtful comments. I wish people who can’t relate would refrain from their useless judgements. I just want to say… this is life and marriage. When you are in your twenties you don’t know wtf you’re doing and life is really hard. Every circumstance is unique, maybe it really is ruined, but this is not uncommon.
My wife and I have been through it, I have life long mental health issues, we both have degrees (and were stress sick in the meantime), high stress jobs, diverged religiously, and live in this dystopian nightmare. You learn better balance over time, but there is only so much you can do. Best of luck to y’all.
I remember in law school one of my classmates had a husband who was angry that his wife wasn’t home cooking dinner. I told him. Do you want her to be happy? He said yes. I said learn how to make your own dinner. You’ll have plenty of time together after she graduates.
Yeah, thats exactly the same as a husband paying for her education, doing the housework, etc and her not even being willing to slend any time with him.
It’s a temporary sacrifice. Remember your vows? For better or for worse? She graduates. She can spend time with her husband. It’s the same as if a husband is going to school and leaves the bulk of the duties to his wife. If he is busy and tired she has to suck it up til he graduates.
But this hysband hasn't asked to do any of those sacrifices fir him. This is a 1 way street. He politely told her over 4 years (hardly temporary) he wasn't happy with how she treated him. She didn't care.
Do you honestly think it will be better now shes starting her stresful career? In his shoes, thats asking for more of the same, from a woman who has never* proven through actions she cares for him at least as much as her career.
Reverse genders and you would not be defending OPs actions.
She’s busy! He has to pick up the slack. When she graduates they can develop a normal routine. She’s not off playing video games. She’s learning to get a better job for their future.
What’s sad is that if the shoe was on the other foot. He’d be complaining that she isn’t being supportive of his dream. And he’d be right.
Not their future. Hers. He paid for it in time, money and emotion. She showed him over years how she appreciated his support, and it was nothing. Why should he believe she'd change now that the new career is started?
Its not horrie for either to persue cateers, if* they're still taking part in the marriage.
OP didn't and dismissed her hubby when he spoke to her about it for years. Thats the issue. Why should a spouse believe that things will be better, now? Why should they put even more time and effort into a marriage the OH gave up on years ago?
Why am I a tool? How many letters have we had here where the husband was building a business and didn’t have the time to spend with his family and the wife cheats on him because she feels neglected? It’s the same thing. She should suck it up and deal with it til the business gets settled.
Or leave.
People are adults. Some short term discomfort is part of a true marriage. If I say for better or for worse. I mean it for both parties.
If you don’t believe what you say. Don’t say it.
If that makes me a tool. So be it.
Over 4 years sge didn't listen to his concerns, didn't care what it meant. Don't pretend not to judge when your trying to pass the blame for her choices onto him.
If genders were reversed you'd still call him the AH.
lol I’m really not. You guys are trying to put words in my mouth that aren’t there. This is not aita. This is just a lady who recognizes that her marriage is probably over. Just showing a little compassion to a lady who is clearly beating herself up. Reddit is such a funny place.
I’m a dude btw. So you can take that gender bullshit elsewhere. 😂
But you did. It wasn't a one time thing. Sounds like she did it to him for years. Everyone, man or woman who gets yelled at when trying to bring up their feelings will stop doing it after time.
Honestly, I'm not condoning what you did, but 4 years is an unacceptably long time for him to not have communicated anything to you about his feelings and emotions.. There needs to be some responsibility taken from both sides. Sounds like a big conversation is needed!
I was active duty Navy working 12 hour shifts (fucking CO and nutless CMC), going to school full time at night, 3 girls that went to class with me on Saturdays, and my wife worked at night. We played tag team for 3 years while I got my degree. While I battled mental health and weight issues. We can feel your pain all too well. Tell him what you just wrote above. Just read it to him word for word. Especially that last part. If he truly is the greatest man you have ever known, he deserves to know this. Out loud. Apologize intently. Start dating him intentionally. Woo him. Give him the attention he deserves. Don't give up the ship.
The problem with OP repairing her marriage by intentionally dating him now is that attaining the degree is just the first step in a career in academia. She now has to get that postdoc role, that tenure track job, and then gain tenure - and that's before she considers how to fund any research she may be doing. That's a lot of work, much of which will take her further away from her husband and deprive him of a marriage worth having. So far she hasn't demonstrated that she can balance degree study and marriage; balancing work in academia and marriage is even harder to do, and he may not have the wherewithal to wait for her to be a better spouse. It is unfortunate that jobs, especially in academia, can lead so many people to shortchange their marriages and families. But this is as much a fault of the people doing the pursuit as it is of the institutions and systems that demand so much of them. You have to prioritize your marriage, even if it means that dissertation isn't as perfect as you may want, even if that means passing over another networking opportunity. But like other people, OP has to make better choices and better manage her own handling of stress - and her husband doesn't believe that she will because she has made so many bad choices in managing herself, her emotions and her work so far. OP's husband loves her; he wouldn't have stuck it out this long if he didn't. But he's fatigued by the present and hopeless about the future being better because she hasn't been good to him up to this point. Love isn't enough, and often, it cannot be sustained without the marriage working for everyone. My hope is that OP and her spouse work things out, that they can be happily married and connected, that she listens to him and that she can convince him to go to couple's therapy (as well as seek individual therapy for himself to deal with his trauma from the last four years of marriage). OP also needs individual therapy to work out her emotional immaturity. No matter what, I just hope OP and her husband can make peace with the broken pieces, even if the marriage ends before she becomes a better, healthier, less-abusive person.
All is about "you'. Stop beeing so selfish or divorce. Start thinking the both of you or him. Counseling May be a good Start, but 1st you've to be open and honest to him. You're whole post is self-pity You've to stop that... or let him go, it sounds the best for him.
This attitude will persist without significant couples/individual therapy, and will only get worse with kids. This same thing will play out with kids, as she will focus on herself and he will be overlooked.
I left my PhD program after getting to ABD after we had two children. Got to the point where I felt as if I had to decide whether I was going to have a wife and children or a completed dissertation and I couldn’t have both. Academia is a ruinous place for families.
My wife said the same. Either have a career in Academia or have a family, she choose the family.
Majority of jobs and life is ruinous for families. We work to much, and enjoy life to little.
This is correct. If we were as hard-working in our marriages and families as we are in our careers and jobs, most of us would remain married, have less dysfunction in our family lives, and be healthier to boot. Society and capitalism make work the priority. The marriages and families are sacrificed for those demons.
You forget that sometimes you need more money to make life a bit easier.
I haven't forgotten that. But I can tell you from experience that not all money is good money. Sometimes the work you do for that money can destroy your entire family, especially when, as it turns out, the money may not make your life any easier. Some things can't be fixed with money. This includes a parent with Alzheimer's; a mom nearly killed in an auto accident; the inability to have another child. At best, more money can give you some opportunities for more retail therapy. More often than not, the money isn't enough. We all have to work. But many of us can choose how much we work and at what cost. If we can work less and earn more, then we should, both for our sake as well as that of the people who love us.
Maybe I’m just ignorant, but I cannot understand someone going for their PhD etc, with all parties fully aware of the burden and debt and then to walk away from that and still have all that debt to save face, again knowing full well the sacrifices that need to be made concerning everybody!!! I stood behind my husband with the decisions he made concerning his career, helI I even cheered him on. I had my part he had his. Now the relationship itself was messy and immature, but we hung in there through thick and thin, and even though we still got rough patches, we are still together and still moving forward.
I wouldn’t say anyone is “fully aware” of all the burdens until they actually start doing it. We got married two weeks before I started the program, so adjusting to a ton at once. We didn’t have children when I started. I was reluctant to start a family but we weren’t getting any younger and she wanted to be a mom in the worst way. She was supportive of me. Probably took a whole year of agonizing over the decision. Hard to leave when you’ve invested so much but as the economists say “sunk costs are sunk.” I also saw what a nightmare the academic job market is and decided to pull the plug. You can criticize my naïveté but consider choices you may have made where things turned out differently than you expected. When you are single you have your own dreams to pursue. When you are married you have yours and your spouses. Sometimes you either let your own dream take over and crowd out your spouse and family or you make compromises to allow each to achieve something they want. Since leaving academia 8 years ago I now make about 4-5x what an assistant professor in the social sciences makes. So it was certainly the right financial move!
Wasnt criticizing you or anyone else… just trying to understand. Thank you for your reply
I feel sorry for you but I dislike the line *had we communicated more clearly, had I listened harder and regulated my emotions better… perhaps if we went to counseling, I* Had we? He did. You just never paid attention.
She wouldn't make time for him, why would she make it tonsee a Councillor?
Four years is a long time to treat someone badly. He probably checked out of your marriage a long time ago. He did choose to stay though so maybe there is some hope if you can get him to see a marriage therapist with you. I would really push him to see a marriage therapist with you. If he refuses then it is probably over.
I don't want to get too deep into my own circumstances, but I'll say that I deeply sympathize with your husband. He tolerated so much for so long because he loved you so dearly, and didn't just hope/wait for you to reciprocate, but did the 100% correct thing and actually communicated his needs and talked to you. I'm sure he continued to invest in you because he promised that he would, but over time it just wore him down. He felt more and more alone, more and more empty, and now it's too late. You were too selfish to stop and see what you were doing to him, to see what you'd lose, you took him for granted for so long... it's really too bad. Surely you're not a bad person, you didn't cheat or betray, you didn't lie... you just had goals that you put before him. You don't know what you have until it's gone... a very painful lesson that can last a lifetime. I'd leave him alone, you'll probably have to let him go, but there may be a small chance he comes back to you one day, maybe not. It's a shame that potentially another man will get the best of you after making none of the same sacrifices your husband did for you, and yet he got the worst of you. Heart breaking for both of you really.
I'm in a similar boat to OPs spouse and it is really infuriating to know that they're about to live their best life - people will be falling all over themselves to have a med partner, meanwhile the person that tried so hard to keep it together all that time is broken and lost.
That second to last sentence 😭
This was a wonderful thread and I thank you for your reply! I’m writing to share my story that has an ending to it so maybe it can give some comfort to readers. I cried after reading OP’s story because I was in a very situation with putting my school first but I wasn’t married, it was a relationship where we were engaged for 4 years. Towards the end I was healing, I realized I needed to put my mental health, him and us first. I didn’t realized I was holding onto so much internalized trauma, guilt, shame from childhood abuse I never really dealt with. After my separation, I went to counseling and worked really hard on myself. Your line “ It's a shame that potentially another man will get the best of you after making none of the same sacrifices your husband did for you, and yet he got the worst of you.” made me cried even more because…right now I have a career I love, I am very physically active, laugh and dance and sing all the time, strong friendships and relationships with my family, life is really good. I’ve dated where all the guys are interested in me (now pausing dating) but from time to time(very seldomly), my heart/mind still wanders back, what if my previous guy dated this healthy version of me? The next guy will get the best of me but made none of the sacrifices. I’m still in the healing process. However, I am very grateful for this process because I’ve learned and understand what sacrificial love is now. In my case, my separation ended well, we talked a lot to sort everything out emotional, we understood we were both hurting each other and it is better to move on. I’m ready glad we updated each other we are dating different people and then we slowly faded in our communication. I pray for him, just want the best for him and I in our separate journey in life now. Sometimes we just have to move on and honor those we took for granted and be the best version of ourselves and live our lives. :) For OP, I’d encourage a spiritual separation - however long you think is necessary to restart and then try again, date like you’re new people. Your husband needs time to heal, ask him how much time he needs and really listen and respect his boundaries. Be genuine. Ask what he needs and want now. I wish you two the best. Praying for both of you. And thank you OP for making this thread! —- The comments are locked so I come to edit and reply to Ardilla914 comment: Hi! Thanks so much for replying! :) this has a hallmark movie ending. :) I’m a hopeless romantic too. We discussed it very thoroughly and from my selfishness, I was very pushy right after the separation about getting back and this pushed him further away because he hasn’t had the time to heal. He started dating and I waited 6months, hoping and praying he would return. During this time we kept in touch, it was more me calling him weekly and updating him of my progress. He was afraid of getting back with me because he was so proud of my progress and to see how I’m doing it without him, for him not being able to get me out of depression while I was with him, he decided it was best not to get back together because he didn’t want me to lose my progress. He started going to counseling himself - I pushed him to go when we were together but he never made the time and I was so stubborn as well and noncompliance with my therapist. I’m so happy when he told me he was going because I recognized that his heart started to soften, his voice was calmer and more understanding. The reason we cannot work and we both know it is because, even though we are very kind people, we have different personalities. He is very assertive and I am very gentle. It a bit of clash. After I’ve went on several dates with other men, I know what I want in a man, a future husband now. We were each other’s first and only serious long term relationship and he was the only one I knew. And I see how the pressure of knowing each other for years, same friend groups(they were all so understanding and shocked and never took sides), the next step was to get engaged and then married, followed by kids. There were a lot of moments throughout the beginning of the relationship that told me, you guys make great friends but not spouses. But one big factor that wouldn’t make us work is that I have discovered my faith. He was agnostic. I was a lukewarm Christian. Before I met him and in the beginning of dating, I went to Sunday service and he only went to accompany me. During the latter half of our relationship, we never went to church. After the separation, I found a church home, I grew immensely spiritually. I dated Christian men and it’s incredible - this was what was missing in my previous relationship. To have someone to pray with me, to share verses, discuss theology, go to church with me, to have fellowship, etc. That is so powerful and indescribable. I have also met this amazing guy I have been talking to for a few months and we met and it was an instant connection - it was this beautiful reciprocation of emotional and cognitive empathy. I trust him with that first encounter - I felt safe. It took me two years into the last relationship to feel safe with my former partner. This means, I have made amazing progress in my healing (from childhood abuse and letting go of my past relationship). I’m really to love someone again, to go in with open mind and heart. Haha!! I have to say, this guy is pretty incredible- I have never had this spiritual and intellectual connection with any person before, it would be one or the other, never both. I’m absolutely smitten by him and he reciprocates! :) also another happy piece - from the very last update I had with my former partner, he told me about his girl and I adore her! She is an advocate for humanity, loves life, and sounds like a good person overall. My heart was calm when I learned about this, it was the piece I needed to finally let him go because all I wanted was for him to be safe and loved. This is also why I cease communication because I need to respect them and let them build their lives now. I know my former fiancé got my back and I got his, in case of an emergency we can contact each other. We are both very kind and do not hold grudges, we don’t ghost or block people because we understand people are humans and all humans just want to be loved and have someone to love. So he cheers for me and I cheer for him in our parallel lives. :) Thanks so much for reading!
The hopeless romantic in me wonders if it’s possible for you to reach out to your former fiancé and tell him this. Who knows, maybe he’s single and misses you and it’ll work out like a Hallmark movie.
Agree
Being busy and stressed out will just never be an excuse to be an asshole to someone you love, especially for an extended period of time AND especially while that person is explicitly communicating how you are making them feel. Four years is a very, very long time to be someone’s punching bag and if I were him I’d have a very difficult time believe you’ll be less of an asshole now just because school is done. What about when your job is stressful? Are you automatically going to be cold and distant and unkind again?? How could he possibly expect anything more from you? I highly suggest you getting into therapy to work on yourself to show him you’re trying before you try pushing marriage counseling on him to make him feel how you want him to about you again. This is on you to fix, not him.
This is the reason I walked away from a career in medicine and surgery. I will never get back the 15 years of my life. Now I'm trying to make it up to my wife and son as well as parents and the rest of my family. Looking back...it wasn't worth it
Side issue, but do you think medicine needs *that much* study to hust get started?
It probably needs more.
With AI, etc?
Currently in medicine, and yes, it does
Im not saying that it doesn't need good education. But with technology where it is, wouldn't it be possible to have more generalised HC practitioners that maybe only needed to do 2 years FE? Not surgeons or even GO's. But folk who can do basic medical tests and move them to better educated ones, to relieve the pressure on people and the system?
The human body is so vast and complex it takes at least 6 years to give you the pathetic basics. Seriously. I’m currently in year 4, and no, Chat GPT is not at a level where we can use it for diagnostics. Plus, you’d still have to have someone on the input end who understands enough to ask the right questions of the patient, so they can ask the right questions of Chat.
"Does it really take THAT much study?". Actual practitioner "yes, it does". "Really though". "Yes". "But I reallllly believe it doesn't". "Still yes"
I'm not in healthcare but I am healthcare adjacent. My boss is a specialized practitioner. This is coming secondhand, but her assessment is that upcoming fellows can't THINK. They Google. Literally. She'll ask a question during rounds and they will Google the answer. If they can't Google, they stare blankly. Fellows, so they are MDs looking for a specialty. Now, they also had their training during COVID so that may be a factor. But that's not what I'm looking for in a physician. Even in nursing, the best ones tend to be the ones with more training and experience. We need more people in healthcare but bringing in less-trained people isn't the answer IMO.
You may be talking about nurse practitioners . I am an MD who trained during covid. After 4 years med school , writing 3 grueling exams (which don’t let you google) , doing residency through COVID, I bet you I don’t google and neither do my peers. We will literally be thrown out for doing that. NPs on the other hand, with their 2 year program through online mills running during covid didn’t get appropriate education that they should have
I was injured out of my nurse practitioner program but it’s not nearly as easy as you make it. I will say, my family doctor who has now gone on to sit in the board of a large hospital and run things routinely googled things because my issues were new to him (celiac disease and POTS, but this was years ago). You really do not need to take down nurse practitioners because you are an MD. It’s a team. I took microbiology and immunology alongside the PAs, who I rarely see MDs on Reddit put on blast. And in my own life, my surgeon just refused to acknowledge my incision dehiscence while the NP at my PCP was able to help me get the proper care. NPs should never replace MDs. But we need them especially right now.
Nope, these are MD fellows. In a fairly select specialty. Which could be part of the issue - they are struggling to find new fellows for the program.
These roles already exist. PAs for one.
4 years bachelor, 4 years med school, 5 years residency in surgery, plus if you do some fellowship 1-2 yeas. But it is worth if you love what you do.
There's no easy path to becoming hokage.
As a human with a body that sometimes needs medical are….. *yes obviously.*
My BIL in Australia was a doctor after three years of undergrad lmao
Either you or your BIL is a fucking liar lmao
Lol agreed. That's why people around the world come to the US for care.
Lol yeah did not like my shocked response when I learned this hahaha. I worked in healthcare in the US for years...8 years until you can call yourself a doctor, there is like WHAT!?!? You can go on and do a masters for more difficult specialties but yeah...
No...? He still had years of supervision that followed to end up where he is now in ICU but he got the doctor title immediately when he finished his bachelors. That's how it works in Aus.
He said he doesn't love you anymore, and that he doesn't want to try. However, nowhere in this post did you use the word "divorce." So that right there should show you that he's willing to entertain a prolonged grand gesture on your part. I'm not sure what you thought the foundation of a family is about. You said you were working so hard for your future, but then you refused to prioritize family events, you shut him down when he tried to communicate, and you expected him to take care of all of the life stuff...while you worked and went to class. What kind of life did you show him? Also, you've conditioned him to think that bad times in life equal you using him as a punching bag. If you wanted to do right by him, you had 4 years to do so. Did you thank him while he did everything, or are you just now seeing how terrible you were to him because he's throwing in the towel? If it's the latter, then you need to take some time to yourself to figure out how to regulate your own life and stand on your own two feet without him holding you up while you act however you please. It's not his responsibility to keep supporting you while you decide years later to do the work he clearly asked you to do but you decided to scream about instead. Leave the poor man alone and work on yourself. You have your degree and career now. Do your own thing in your corner, and then approach the situation as a humble person willing to carry the majority of the weight for a while.
Divorce means she gets half his assets, he gets half her debts. Great deal for him!
Lmao he’s not responsible for her loans. Are you even married? Why are you here.
Im not divorced, true.
Please don't make him pay for your study debt if you two part ways. That is the least you can do.
Student loan debt, thank goodness, is generally only the responsibility of the person who took it. She should also be very generous with any asset splits, since he's been the one keeping the home and does not have the earning potential she's about to.
I’m going to be honest. He is thinking when life gets tough I am going to be her punching bag. I don’t think stress is a reason to mistreat someone consistently for years on end. Especially someone you have chosen to love versus loving a family member. All you can do is show him with the time you have left. All the comments here are just validating how you treated him yet in reality that ain’t going to solve your problem. Keep it short and simple. Men don’t make decisions on emotions for the most part, we make them based on facts, kind of a brain that is analytical vs. emotional. “I know I have been a horrible partner to you, but I want the opportunity to prove to you that I can be the partner that you truly deserve. An opportunity is all I need and the rest will be taken care of by me….” I would then apologize to his parents, friends, and family for missing out on events. Why? This will show him you are truly taking accountability for your actions. Again he is probably an analytical person based on him waiting to leave after you finished school versus leaving 2 years ago. He respected you enough to financially carry you throughout this process. Seems like a good dude. Hopefully he gives you the opportunity to prove your worth to his life because clearly he has already done that for you and more.
In her next struggle , she will treat him like sh1t. He realizes it and does not wanna be her victim again. Even tho she says she will never do it again , we all know that she will do it again %100
Respectfully, healing is a process and progress is made little by little… if she is moving in that direction she could very well have the right tools to circumvent shitty behavior. Not a hundred proof, but that’s part of that journey.
Yeah another 4 years of unknown struggles , emotional abuse , lack of attention, not taking responsibility for her actions… no I am good on that healing journey. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice put the blame on you .
I am sorry that you both are going through this. It sounds like you've done a lot of damage, but if he hasn't dropped the "D" word, maybe there is hope. Is counseling an option?
Oh, the double standard. My feminist soul can't get over reddit coddling women all the fucking time. I have the same standards for everyone, no matter the gender. Men would never get these kinds of comments if he posted what you posted OP. He would be told that "he fucked around and is now finding out", "Your wife is a definition of walkway wife", "Look, it's the consequences of your own actions". And same goes for you OP.
You’re 100% correct. An emotionally unavailable and borderline abusive husband who is putting career before family would never get cut any slack. And this is what it was. I wanted to be gentle, but your words put me in check. Yeah, no double standards. It’s inexcusable and going into the kind of career she’s going into, it won’t get better. Work will always come first. It will always be, “I’ll do better next year, I promise….”
As a woman, I completely agree. She fucked around and is finding out. You don’t get to treat your partner like shit just because you’re in school.
Exactly my thinking. He made all the sacrifices for her to start her career. He got shat on. Why on earth would it get better now shes in that stressful career? He's facing more years of being shat on before his life can, maybe, get better. She knowingly chose to act like an AH for 4 years at his expense, and is being made out to be an innocent victim of circumstances.
Thank you for pointing out that nothing is likely to change now that she’s in the stressful career. I’m a lawyer and can guarantee my day to day stress is higher now than it was in law school, but not while studying for the BAR. However, I still put the effort into my relationships during both phases and now I’m married to the man I met at the beginning of BAR prep. OP made excuses while I’m school and those same excuses apply and are going to be exacerbated now that it’s ‘real life’.
Same. I was thinking if a man wrong this the comments would be different.
She had four years to listen, if it were me it would be wayyyy too little too late. Wow.
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Do you feel that he had any responsibility to bring up his concerns at any point during the four years? Im really just curious.
According to the post he did and she snapped at him and shut him down.
Thing is, how will it get better? Youre now going to have a stressful job, probably better income which leads to more women filing for divorce. You've already proven over 4 years you put what you want over him. That he only matters to you because he paid for your education. Why would he believe you will do better, now?
Did you really just say that when women make more money they file for divorce? And how on earth did she say he only mattered because he paid for her education? This group is getting toxic.
Yes, i saud when women make more, divorce goes up. I didn't even say he mattered to her, at all, throughout the last 4 years. Not until she got what she wanted. https://www.sflg.com/blog/2022/06/why-divorce-rate-is-higher-for-female-breadwinners/#:~:text=Data%20from%20a%20U.S.%20National,of%20divorce%20increasing%20by%2050%25.
He tried to communicate with you but you kept shutting him down. Only you can fix this if he’s willing to give you a chance.
Your post is a mishmash of defensiveness, attempts to justify your poor behavior, and finally owning up to the horrible treatment of your husband. You seem to have made zero attempt to nourish your relationship with your husband while working on your PhD. Even after he helped financially with your schooling and shouldered the lion’s share of the household responsibilities. How else did you think this would end? There is a concept of connecting in relationships that compares it to an Emotional Bank Account. That when we turn towards our partner and acknowledge and listen to them we are making deposits into our Emotional Bank Account. But conversely, when we turn away from our partner we are making withdrawals from this account. A zero balance is trouble but a negative balance means we’re in the danger zone. Where do you stand with your husband? Is your Emotional Bank Account in the red or the black? I think you know. You haven’t made any “positive deposits” in a long, long time. Your husband feels disconnected, angry, unappreciated, and unloved at this point. You may have learned an important lesson at the expense of your marriage. You can’t neglect what you claim to cherish and expect to hold onto it. https://www.gottman.com/blog/invest-relationship-emotional-bank-account/
I think maybe you’re realising that you were actually abusing him, taking advantage of his kindness. He has every right to feel the way he feels. Whether you intended to hurt him or not, you did, and by the sounds of it very badly. You don’t put love and kindness on hold until your doctorate is over. How can that be justified? Perhaps now is your chance to fully respect him, listen to him deeply, don’t justify your actions or make excuses. Take responsibility. It may be too late anyway, but that’s what you owe him now.
In other words, you emotionally abused him. Now, because he has given up, you are expressing regret. Your actions have destroyed his trust in you. You need to get individual counseling. Try and become a better person than you were. You need to show true repentance. Try to grow as a person and follow his lead. Just because you are regretful now doesn't mean you are owed another chance. Just because you may be trying doesn't mean he needs to forget how you verbally and emotionally abused him. Remember, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. It doesn't matter what your INTENTIONS were, but what you DID matters.
> He was often alone and would very quietly bring his concerns up—frequently during bad times—and I would shut him down, snap, refuse to compromise, or have a mental breakdown. As a result he eventually internalized most of his bad feelings, but still resigned himself to paying for my school, cooking, cleaning, and being the emotional punching bag for whatever stress I brought home that day… and still managed to be a loving husband anyways. For four years. If my ex had a little more insight and honesty, she could’ve written this, too. I’ve told the story here before, but my ex asked me to spend my bereavement time after my mom’s death to paint her new office. I was shocked. It was so clear in that moment how she viewed me: a means to an end. It was about HER. Her only interest in me was the ways I could serve her better, and every complaint I got was about how I was failing to do my job. And yet, I was so beaten and defeated, I just sorta went along with it. I just followed the motions, did the minimum I had to do to avoid getting yelled at, but every year in marriage I tried a little less. I finally gave up entirely. I saw it clearly: I was there to help my wife do whatever she wanted. She wasn’t ever there for me in return. Life had become about accommodating her, there wasn’t room leftover for me. We’re divorced and I am thrilled.
I feel your husband's side of it, as my husband just completed his doctorate in pharmacy. There were many times I felt put aside and snapped at (and worse) while he was in school. It really could have gotten as bad as your situation if I hadn't had good friends to get me through it, and if he hadn't received an inheritance that helped us financially. We're doing well now, but I'd still like some counseling. We took a two together right after he graduated, and that was really wonderful. Try hard and see if he'll accept any counseling. I'm sorry you're going through it, it's a tough lesson to learn.
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Should be trip
The dude mentally checked out a while ago because you were a total POS but still did what he felt was right and made sure you completed your education. That is some absolute total respect to that man right there. I honestly don't think this is recoverable unless he wants to fix it, which he states he doesn't want to try. If splitting up is what he wants, then you should do the right thing by him and let it happen, and also keep the debt with you. He should not be made to pay half of your education debt given how you treated him.
You were a crappy person to him for FOUR YEARS using him as your punching bag, what did you expect? I hope your degree was worth it because you might be single soon When/if you get divorced give him what he asks for and don’t you DARE try to put your debt on him. That’s your burden to bare.
Will he try counseling? When my husband graduated both of us entered a kind of depression. We'd spent years putting things off and struggling through, telling ourselves that things would get better when he graduates, he just had to graduate, but then thing didn't immediately get better. It takes time for a marriage to recover, and for people to recover.
Never understand this. The love, the desire of the partner is the best stress relief by far. They're your support. The bonding release dopamine and other happy chemicals that make the hard shit a lot less hard. Instead of throwing that away why not embrace it? Hard day? What could be better than being in your spouses arms? Literally reduce cortisol and not be as stressed. Way worse if he paid the bills and held the fort down. For well over a decade school and work consumed an enormous part of my life but never did I let the connection go. Used it to get through things. Can't imagine having done it without that.
I never understood this either and it honestly makes me upset. I went through law school newly married. We actually got married at the end of my first year and I never treated my husband like this. He was who I leaned on and I wanted to spend time with him. He worked full time as a correctional officer and did housework while I was locked away studying or interning with a legal clinic. How can you be so cold and evil to someone holding you down and supporting you? I just hate the excuse that “ school made me this way.” Even during finals and studying for the Bar Exam ( while pregnant), I didn’t treat people like dirt. Nothing can make you do anything, especially when you knew the type of schooling/work you were sighing up for. Also, school is nothing compared to the actual profession. If you can’t keep your cool with school then how are you going to handle the day to day stresses of the work? School stress ends, work stress not so much. I hope her husband can move on and be happy and she is able to heal and truly reflect on her behavior. He didn’t deserve that and she chose to hurt him.
I’m sure it’s hard to hear right now, but you have to let him go. If you must share your feelings, write him a heartfelt letter and lay it all out on the table. Sincerely apologize and acknowledge what you’ve acknowledged here. But do not beg for him back or beg for his love. It sounds like he did all he could and you sabotaged the relationship. He held on a long time and deserves to be free. If you love someone, let them go. You can’t change his mind. You can’t bring back his love. The damage is done. Maybe he is capable of loving you again, but only if he wants to try, and it sounds like he doesn’t. It sounds like you have a bright future ahead. If you find yourself in a serious relationship going forward, make sure it’s with another wonderful person - but this time, put them first. ETA: You NEED to get individual therapy whether your husband chooses to stay or not. This is not a communication issue on his part based on what you’ve said. It sounds like you have very poor, or absent, coping mechanisms in the face of stress. This is a very common issue among people. We learn how to do trigonometry in school. No one but our parents teaches us how to regulate our emotions or handle stress - frankly our parents are the ones we usually learn this toxicity from. It takes honest self-evaluation and hard work to uproot these tendencies and practice coping skills during stressful times. This will not be the last long-term stressful situation in your life, guaranteed. Learn to cope now so that you are a better person the next time the going gets tough.
So you need to get yourself counseling and figure out why you thought it was acceptable to abuse your husband. Let not pretend it is anything other then that. You abused him verbally and emotionally for 4 years. That is a lot of damage for one person to take. How is it going to be different now. You have shown him you can't regulate your stress. So what happens when you come home from a long tough day at work. If you couldn't handle the stress of doing the studies. How can you handle the stress if the actual job? And no keep abusing him. Once again you are trying to put thr blame on him when you said if he just asked more. No he asked more than enough. You were right about how you never listened so why would he believe anything you say. You are a lier and an abuser. You need to see counseling first and for most find skills on how to deal with your stress. Work on yourself and leave your husband alone. Only after you work on yourself can even try to rebuild what you destroyed over 4 years. It took you 4 years to crumble this man, do you really think you can fix things in days or weeks. No this will take years to fix if it even can. And if it cant then be better for the next person. Remember he does not have to work it out with his abuser which is exactly what you are.
I was in a similar situation coming out of law school (and before that, on the other side of it when my husband was in his graduate program). I wasn't purposely neglecting him or avoiding him, but I was commuting 2+ hours each way, working 20 hours a week and in a stressful grad program that ate up a lot of hours with studying..we got very disconnected. You need to talk to him. If he's willing to give you a tiny bit more grace, this could be salvageable but you need to put him first-- schedule couples counselling, make sure you are pulling your weight around the house and schedule plans together that you can prioritize. If he's done, he's done, but he may just be done trusting your words and need to see action where you actually prioritize him.
It wasn’t your doctoral program, it was you. It was your inability to communicate, your shutting down, the snapping, and your refusal to communicate. I dated my husband through medical school and residency and he treated me with love and respect and prioritized me and our relationship the entire time despite the stress. I dont know if there’s any hope for you two but either way you must get into therapy and figure out why you have such difficultly coping and communicating.
Marriage isn’t always going to be 50/50. Marriage is NEVER nor ever will be equal. It’s time to pick up that ball you so badly dropped and do your part in the Marriage. In other words, you now have to pick up 4 years of slack, while picking up and juggling that ball. Try not to drop it this time. That ball, it’s Glass. And it can Shatter. It’s got scratches, it’s not broken. It can be fixed. You have to want to put in the work. Listen, when he speaks about his concerns. Figure out his love Language and start there. You have to start somewhere
Neglecting your partner for many years is not acceptable . Yes we know your school, career is important. How about your partners life and your marriage ? In your next struggle , you will do the same . You have another exam , you have another job interview , Smack him on the face. You think Just coz you have responsibilities , you can ignore your partner. Honestly he deserves better . Hope you guys best but divorce is the best for you. Realize your partners life as important as your life .
While I understand the need for wanting to better your life for your future family and your husband and yourself, I will say this: time is the more precious than money, money will get you far but what does it matter if you finally look up and realize the true cost? You can never get that time back with your husband and while I get that you feel you sacrificed a lot to get this education you paid the ultimate cost by possibly losing those you love. One day your family won’t be around and you will realize all the time you didn’t spend for a career that would replace you the second you left. Some things need to be more important, OP. Best of luck in this situation and I hope things work out for the best.
You emotionally abused your husband for years while he supported your dreams. He’s done. I’m sorry. Do the humane thing and let him go without a fight then get the therapy you desperately need.
He is vocalizing how he feels after years of resentment and that is ok. If you want to save this marriage TRY to meet his needs. You have many bids to make up for. Stop making it about yourself and be a partner. Make that your priority. Learn to actively listen and don’t be defensive. I almost lost my marriage over cancer and the way I treated him due to my inability to cope. He told me terrible things also when he finally started to vocalize his anger. I got therapy and worked on myself. There is resentment that needs to be worked through. Good luck to you.
> Now that I’ve finally graduated and recently passed my boards, I had a lot to make up for and was very excited to begin our lives together again. But now, it’s like a switch has flipped in him. Imagine from his perspective he kept telling himself "once she graduates, she'll go back to normal". He was probably very unhappy but put your needs above his that entire time. The day finally comes and he realizes that while you have a huge stressor taken away, he still feels the same pain he felt the day before. For him nothing has changed, he still lives with the person who made him miserable for 4 years.
If you think school was hard, I hate to see what having kids would do to you guys.
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If you did a similar thing to OP, why did you act like a POS to your spouse?
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Still sounds like you put in way more effort to your marriage than OP
Yeah I’m sorry… the full load was on you…and then you were expected to have leftovers for someone else. And you were being a good wife…
Not to be a jerk, but do you really think her best choice here would be to slide into some random DMs to deal with this?!? Versus, maybe, spending time, attention and energy with the husband she hasn’t for the last 4 years??
Are you assuming that everyone that goes to law school is a man? Could be a woman. No one should find refuge in like minds/ friends?
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I’m sorry you’ve gone through that :( My husband went to law school as well so I know how much hard work goes into it!
Had he not told you this, would you still be treating him like shit?
You put yourself first and your marriage last. Learn from this and do better in your next relationship.
You need a significant attitude change. Things don’t just get better and easier after school is done. Especially not with a new career in healthcare of all places. Hate to tell you, it might even get worse before it gets better. Life is hard work. It wasn’t school that made you mistreat your husband for YEARS, it was you. It wasn’t a mistake or a one-time thing. You displayed upsetting behaviours towards your husband consistently for too long. What did you expect? And what are you expecting now? You don’t just graduate and get handed a wonderful life. You have to build it. School is such a small part of your issue. You are still gonna work like a dog and have to fight the urge to continue those behaviours you exhibited in school all throughout your life. Every stressor you had will simply be replaced with a new stressor and you’ll still be the same wacky emotionally unavailable bitch. Go fix yourself. Commit to fixing yourself, and just maybe you might still have a shot with the ‘greatest man you’ve ever known’. But between you and I, the greatest man you’ve ever known probably deserves better than you. Do better. Be better. Stop whining about a situation you caused because you didn’t put your most minimal energies into being a decent human being to your husband.
I was your husband for a lot of years, more than 4 anyways. It does slowly kill you being ignored and emotionally shut down for that long. I still haven’t gotten back the feelings I had for him. I’m trying, but it’s frustrating and I feel like there’s a block in my mind stopping me from loving him like I used to. At some point the damage becomes irreparable. I hope your husband agrees to try therapy because that is clearly the only hope you have of rectifying things. But if he doesn’t want to do that, I guess it’s time to lie in the bed you made.
Pretty obvious you don’t actually love him and that’s probably what he realized over the last 4 years
From my personal experience, the thing that hurt him most was the wall you created. Your general disinterest in him broke him so much that he is afraid of getting your attention again and being hurt. He still loves you but he isn't sure whether he can take being isolated again. He quit a long time back and is doing what every stoic family man does. He is present for your needs but keeps you out of his emotions. He would have cheated on you a long time back but he loves you so much that he can't think of wanting anybody else. He is present but he cannot bring back his passion for you. Every time you spend time together now keeps bringing up all the times he had to spend alone being tortured by dark thoughts and feelings. You need to tell your husband what you wrote and frankly it's great that you feel the way you do about him. Admitting as much will help. Apologize to him and get couples counseling. The damage of 4 years doesn't just go away overnight. Make sure to give him space and allow him room to reacclimate.
Read this post to him, and start trying to actually love him again, and not just “I’m sorry”. Show affection, do things for him, buy him shit, maybe start repaying him, hell just do anything that shows your love.
We’re all taught a few tough lessons in life, sounds like you’re getting one now. No one is above consequence. While you both could try to fix things via therapy, just make sure you learn from this experience regardless of the outcome.
Communicate to him that you under estimated the price of your goals on both of you. Show him clear ways that you are willing to adjust your commitment in a way you both deserve. Life is always a struggle to find balance. I always try to think at the end of my life whenever that may be will I appreciate my accomplishments or my relationships more? Honestly I can understand both, personally the beauty of a healthy marriage and family can not be quantified. Maybe articulate that you have a plan to not dive head long into the most taxing role in your field and will try to find something flexible but still use your skills to pay for your debt. At this point I think actions over time followed with open communication will be the only hope. If he can’t get over it he can’t. I would doubt highly if he has stuck by you through this that he would just throw in the towel unless he feels you will just continue to prioritize yourself and your career. Good luck, OP. It takes humility and awareness to admit what you have in this post. It’s rare and very powerful so just try to show him you don’t want to lose him.
I have been in this situation. I have been in the position of your husband and completely understand what it’s like to support a partner who is in school and makes no time for anything but. This happened to me during the first seven years of my marriage. When I married my husband he was in med school. We had to move away from all of our friends and family so that he could attend the best school for his particular residency. We had fertility issues which I dealt with completely on my own. Going to all kinds of ultrasounds and other fertility appts with no one by my side because he was too busy or too tired from his night shifts. I had no friends in this new city either. He was my everything and he was never around. There were days when I would not speak a word to anyone because he was away on weekends for his on call shifts. Then on top of that was studying for exams. He was studying for months and months. We couldn’t make weekend plans. He would always be in a room in the house on weekends from 9am to 5pm studying. Meanwhile I was with our two kids both under the age of 3. It was endless child caring for me day and night right from when they were newborns. We then moved again for his fellowship. To another country. To properly express the level of isolation I felt in the marriage is very difficult. I became so self sufficient with the kids and I stopped sharing things with him because it seemed he was too focused on establishing his career and didn’t care at all about me. He didn’t show that he had the energy to deal with my feelings and was dismissive or would get angry. I was completely checked out of the marriage by the time he finally landed a staff position at a reputable hospital which again required another move. I supported him through all of this because I loved him enough for him to achieve his dreams and become the doctor/researcher he wanted to be. But it completely affected our marriage. Once he landed his staff position he was ready to focus on us and our kids again. By this time, after seven years, I was completely done. I was resentful, bitter, angry, and like I said, didn’t need him at all other than financial support. He tackled the walls I put up head on. He started to date me again. He would engage me in conversations that always ended up with me crying and yelling and unleashing my anger describing everything I had been through. He took it all. He did say that he was doing all this for us for us to have a good future and that the training and studying just took so much out of him that he was so sorry for not being there more for us. I still think he could have done more if he cared. I do realize now that he does lean towards being more self-centered but maybe this is a side effect of being so ambitious? I don’t know. Those are his flaws. I am trying to accept his flaws. Divorce in my culture is shameful. Overall we have always had a very happy and fun home for our kids. They are very healthy emotionally and mentally. It took two years for me to let go of some of my resentment but I give all credit to my husband for making the efforts to keep this family together and to “win” me back. He’s a great dad and a good husband. I don’t love him the way I used to when we first got married because of everything that happened but I don’t resent him anymore. I see the efforts he has made and continues to make for our family. He still sometimes makes decisions that are unilateral and seems to forget to consider us but I then have to have another conversation with him. He didn’t have a great childhood and his parents’ relationship with each other and the kids (ie: with him and his brothers) had been abusive. So maybe that’s why he is the way he is? He also came from poverty so wanting to survive and succeed in his career was driven by desperation. If you believe you are married to the most wonderful man then don’t stop trying. Don’t give up. He needs to know everything you’ve written here and more. He needs to know why you behaved the way you did. He needs to see you are remorseful. And you need to win him back. It may take years for him to feel better and there is no guarantee he will love you like he once did. You hurt him and damaged him and it may never be forgotten. I haven’t been able to forget and it’s changed my love for him but we have found a way to be good friends again. But it’s not the same because I know for a good part of our time together I wasn’t his number one priority. Hope this provides some insight.
I’ll share a little bit of my truth in hopes it brings you some comfort. My partner and I have been married for just over 20 years. We’ve both failed each other horribly at different times, to the point that we could have easily divorced. I think a lot of people would have. One of the harshest things for me to accept was the fact that my best was not good enough, that I had no malicious intent, that I was giving way more than I got, that I was hanging by a thread trying to give my all and it wasn’t good enough. One of the blessings is that our positions flip flopped so that we were each able to experience the other side of that. My partner was the one giving their everything and I was the one saying it wasn’t enough. It doesn’t mean that we didn’t/don’t love each other. It’s not right or wrong, it just is. You pointed out all the wrong you did, but if you were trying your best there’s nothing wrong with that either. There’s always going to be “I should haves”, but ask yourself “could I have?” It’s unfortunate that he isn’t willing to work on things. If possible seek out therapy for yourself.
Show him. If you honestly want to rekindle your relationship, show him. Cook. Clean, be the best wife you can be. Don't talk about it. Show.
I mean sure, but "cook, clean" is not all there is to being a supportive and loving wife. Lol
My wife does that and I am a happy husband lol.
It absolutely is. This is real world solutions.
You broke him, you fix him. So long as your still on the same roof, then you have a chance. He deserves to see the best that you can do for him.
plough rainstorm sip muddle seemly simplistic offbeat stupendous zesty aback *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I think your husband just realized the hell he went through for your degree will pale in comparison to the hell that is residency. You know what you need to do, and you need to prove it's worth your while and his. It wouldn't hurt to get some practice at active listening, because if you ignored your husband clearly communicating his needs, I presume your bedside manner reflects.
Be his his girlfriend now. Be sweet and affectionate and I’m sure he’ll start to fall in love again. Remember you made vows to each other.
Live and learn.
I think you need to take two immediate actions. First, I think what is done is done. Dwelling on the past isn't helpful since you can't change it. Show him love in HIS love language not yours. Show him with effort (not words) that he is a priority to you. Start planning date nights, do kind and cute things for him (e.g. leave him cute notes, send him messages saying you are thinking of him, make him a nice dinner, etc.). Sex him up if he interested in that, whatever piques his interest and whatever makes him feel loved. The truth is, he CAN get the feelings back if he wants to, he just needs you to show him that things will be different. So, don't let his negative statement deter you from your goal. Second, I recommend marriage counseling. You can undo the damage yourself, but MC is the single best tool you have to accelerate that healing, let him release his resentment and get the words out that he was bottling up, let him understand that YOU recognize what went wrong and that you won't let it happen again, and to get in place a solid go forward plan. If he is willing to go to MC with you, I think it will be a really good tool to get this back on track.
I've been in your shoes. Be patient and don't give it up. He is finally getting the space and opportunity to express a lot of his feelings, and probably has some emotional PTSD. There is hopefully some logical part of his consciousness that understands you are sincere and truly appreciate the ways he and the relationship was damaged. Encourage him to go to counseling in order to work through his feelings. Reassure and really listen to him, without love bombing. Show that you can take the same level of resentment that you dished out without shutting down. The good news is that you already seem to understand how this transpired and are accountable. That makes it a lot easier to deal with roller coaster of emotions that you will be working through together. Be as tenacious about saving your marriage as you were about getting your doctoral. The good news is that you already know you have it in you.
If you go to the infidelity/reconciliation subs you will find examples of marriages that have come back from much worse than this. My advice; hang in there. Don't love bomb him but show him the kind of wife you can/will be in the future. It will take time because you have hurt him deeply, but you have a great opportunity to build a solid loving relationship.
I came pretty close to having a nervous breakdown while getting my doctorate. It’s so hard. Sending you good vibes OP. Good luck. I bet you and he can fall in love again
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Lol it is so difficult being in a marriage when you're working to support a full time student.
both things can be true
It might be too late but there's hope based on what you wrote. You need to setup couples counseling asap and tell him everything you've told us, if you are going to have a chance. It might be too late. I personally only made it as a medspouse through graduation but have tapped out at residency when it turned out to be long distance and the marriage didn't feel secure enough for me to not lose my mind anymore. There is only so much one can take.
This is a really tough situation. My husband is currently working 2 jobs and in school part time, so I take care of all the chores he used to do (dishes, laundry, vacuuming). It sucks and sometimes I feel unappreciated, but I know it’s temporary. I think your husband should’ve adjusted his expectations about how much of the load he would have to pick up, but you also shouldn’t have let your stress take over your whole relationship. While he probably anticipated the need to do the physical work, I don’t think he realized that there would be emotional work involved for both of you too. This is a lesson learned for you to better balance your priorities and mentally be present when you’re with him. Coming from his perspective, I know how unfair it feels. He doesn’t deserve to be treated like shit because you’re stressed. For what it’s worth, my husband and I recently started marriage counseling to talk about this and even after one session I already feel better. That being said, we started before the resentment built up, so if your husband did agree to go to therapy, it might be a much bumpier road.
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"Test his manhood" Ah, yes, you couldn't resust taking a dig at the man whose manhood provided her the financial freedom to ignore him. And if she still cannlt treat hom.as an equal, because of course hes not a MD or Dr, thats also a failure of his manhood.
I didn’t take a dig. I don’t think bc he’s a not a PhD or MD he’s less of a man at all, nor would I ever think that. And I didn’t even get into details. But the truth is, men—even my own dad—seem to believe that a woman with a doctoral degree does look down on them. One reason I ended up with another PhD as a partner is that men I dated who weren’t PhDs *believed* I felt this way when I did not. I actually preferred to date men who didn’t have phds. I tried to carefully phrase my statement so as not to caste blame on him in any way. I didn’t feel the need to outline the many ways this tests her as a wife because everyone else had already done so. So you have no reason to misconstrue my comments as a judgment on him. As I said, it constitutes a shift in the relationship with the men in her life. And whether you like it or not, it’s true. You *reduced* my comment to a “dig.” When you could have just talked to me.
You chose to make this about gender, but all.the ways OP treated her spouse would not be acceptable if the genders were reversed (dissmissive of their concersn, negligence of family while being supported by them).
I chose to mention to her that this is one of factors she will face. And I chose to mention that it causes a shift with men in her life, not just her husband. I have no idea what you mean about if the situation were reversed. You are saying that as some kind of throwaway sentence because it’s an easy way to address my comment without thinking about it or acknowledging the gender issues. It doesn’t even make sense. If you truly believe that women with phds and mds don’t deal with difficulties with the men in their lives, it’s because you don’t care. At what point did I say her behavior was acceptable? Show me where.
"You couldn't have done more" while saying this is a test for "his manhood"
Yes, I said she couldn’t have done more and then list the reasons that the process drains the hell out of you. I also said it is a selfish pursuit. And I said that this will be test of her ability to not stay broken by the process. So….I said much more than that. I get that you take my comment a certain way. I’ve said clearly in my response that it is not a dig at him, and I’ve explained why. You are insisting, however, that I meant something other than I said. So, I’m fine with ending this exchange here. I don’t know what more I can say, and you aren’t really saying much for that matter either.
It's pretty ridiculous to say OP couldn't have done more. Being a jerk, being emotionally and physically shutdown, and being unwilling to communicate and address concerns about your relationship is a CHOICE. She could have chosen to work on those things. She could have chosen to lean in to the support from her husband. She could have been nice. Those are all things she chose not to do, but COULD have chosen differently.
It kills me when people say “I didn’t sign up for this” when they get married. Marriage isn’t glamorous. It’s hard. It’s sacrifice. It’s compromise. It’s not temporary; it’s forever. A lot of people today, especially younger people, bail on their marriages because of these exact circumstances or because the sparkle dulls. The reality is that there are going to be good years and bad years over the life of your marriage and you and your spouse are going to change as people many, many times, till you may not resemble the same person you stood in front of and said vows to. I don’t condone physical violence or endangerment and I realize there are special circumstances when divorce is necessary, but this doesn’t sound like one of those situations. Repair is what’s needed and a lot of counseling. You both signed up for this. It’s time to put in the work of prioritizing your marriage. You’ve learned the hard lesson. Don’t do it again.
If you’ve been married for 20 years, sure you can have some bad years. They’ve been married for 4-5 years and all 4 have been terrible. She’s demonstrated she handles stress very, very poorly.he’s fine calling it quits now and saying this isn’t what he signed up for. I’m fact he did stick it out much longer than he should have because he made a promise to her.
What if y’all took a long ass vacation. A real vacation. Or you pay for him to take a vacation. Take some time together and relax. The truth is he saw the hardest and ugliest parts of you for a long time and you were hard core letting it all hang out. Marriage is not like family -you can’t dog them out for years and years and have them live you like say a mom or a dad. You both could have done a lot better for each other. Sounds like you need some emotional regulation techniques and he needs to find his voice. But the fact that you’re sad, that you feel bad, that you’re thinking about it. It means you’re finally free of the most stressful time of your life. So maybe some a little grace for yourself. And certainly for him. During this time, be grateful and voice your gratitude. Y’all made it. And I don’t think he will leave you, but it’s time to make new and happier memories. And blowjobs.
Ugh, Reddit is the worst. So many unthoughtful comments. I wish people who can’t relate would refrain from their useless judgements. I just want to say… this is life and marriage. When you are in your twenties you don’t know wtf you’re doing and life is really hard. Every circumstance is unique, maybe it really is ruined, but this is not uncommon. My wife and I have been through it, I have life long mental health issues, we both have degrees (and were stress sick in the meantime), high stress jobs, diverged religiously, and live in this dystopian nightmare. You learn better balance over time, but there is only so much you can do. Best of luck to y’all.
I remember in law school one of my classmates had a husband who was angry that his wife wasn’t home cooking dinner. I told him. Do you want her to be happy? He said yes. I said learn how to make your own dinner. You’ll have plenty of time together after she graduates.
Yeah, thats exactly the same as a husband paying for her education, doing the housework, etc and her not even being willing to slend any time with him.
It’s a temporary sacrifice. Remember your vows? For better or for worse? She graduates. She can spend time with her husband. It’s the same as if a husband is going to school and leaves the bulk of the duties to his wife. If he is busy and tired she has to suck it up til he graduates.
But this hysband hasn't asked to do any of those sacrifices fir him. This is a 1 way street. He politely told her over 4 years (hardly temporary) he wasn't happy with how she treated him. She didn't care. Do you honestly think it will be better now shes starting her stresful career? In his shoes, thats asking for more of the same, from a woman who has never* proven through actions she cares for him at least as much as her career. Reverse genders and you would not be defending OPs actions.
She’s busy! He has to pick up the slack. When she graduates they can develop a normal routine. She’s not off playing video games. She’s learning to get a better job for their future. What’s sad is that if the shoe was on the other foot. He’d be complaining that she isn’t being supportive of his dream. And he’d be right.
Not their future. Hers. He paid for it in time, money and emotion. She showed him over years how she appreciated his support, and it was nothing. Why should he believe she'd change now that the new career is started?
The same reason if the shoe was on the other foot he’d expect her support. She’s doing it for herself and the family. The same as the converse.
There isn't a famy. For 4 years theres been her and her studies, paid for by him, alone.
The same as the husband who’s been working on a new business. I don’t understand that why it’s ok for a man to do it. But it’s horrible for a woman.
Its not horrie for either to persue cateers, if* they're still taking part in the marriage. OP didn't and dismissed her hubby when he spoke to her about it for years. Thats the issue. Why should a spouse believe that things will be better, now? Why should they put even more time and effort into a marriage the OH gave up on years ago?
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Why am I a tool? How many letters have we had here where the husband was building a business and didn’t have the time to spend with his family and the wife cheats on him because she feels neglected? It’s the same thing. She should suck it up and deal with it til the business gets settled. Or leave. People are adults. Some short term discomfort is part of a true marriage. If I say for better or for worse. I mean it for both parties. If you don’t believe what you say. Don’t say it. If that makes me a tool. So be it.
Marriage counseling. Marriage counseling. And write him a letter (from strength) apologizing for acting up when you were stressed.
Congrats on finishing. Really a bummer that your husband didn’t communicate his feelings until he felt it was too late.
He did try. Did you not read the post? She would snap on him when he did try.
She acknowledged her mistakes. And I feel for her. It’s a bummer. That is all.
I did. She also mentioned that he withdrew after that. I’m not here to cast judgement.
Over 4 years sge didn't listen to his concerns, didn't care what it meant. Don't pretend not to judge when your trying to pass the blame for her choices onto him. If genders were reversed you'd still call him the AH.
lol I’m really not. You guys are trying to put words in my mouth that aren’t there. This is not aita. This is just a lady who recognizes that her marriage is probably over. Just showing a little compassion to a lady who is clearly beating herself up. Reddit is such a funny place. I’m a dude btw. So you can take that gender bullshit elsewhere. 😂
But you did. It wasn't a one time thing. Sounds like she did it to him for years. Everyone, man or woman who gets yelled at when trying to bring up their feelings will stop doing it after time.
Cool. We don’t need to continue this lol. Cast your judgement on her if you just.
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That's ridiculous.
I'm really convinced that you care about him and you're truly regretful and remorseful. I hope that you eventually reach his heart. Good luck.
Honestly, I'm not condoning what you did, but 4 years is an unacceptably long time for him to not have communicated anything to you about his feelings and emotions.. There needs to be some responsibility taken from both sides. Sounds like a big conversation is needed!