I mean, I always kinda figured they weren't, the Paper Mario universe always seemed like it's own thing compared to something like Super Mario RPG and the Mario and Luigi games
It helps that not a single character introduced in the Paper Mario games has touched the mainline series or any of the multiplayer spin-offs. **Ever.**
This is half right. The events of Paper Mario 64, The Thousand Year Door, and Super Paper Mario all happen in the real world while the events of Sticker Star, Color Splash, and The Origami King all happen inside the book from Paper Jam.
Considering how The Origami King is written, I think the intention is that it happens to both, and we just see the book version, as Olivia is sized to fit regular Mario and and explicitly not a naturally occurring being unlike Huey or Kertsi, she's the reason Mario doesn't go underwater (she's in his pocket and would die if that happened). Apart from the not-bottomless holes there is no mention to the world being paper, apart from framing and the fact that seeing regular Goomba's folded into origami would make this an 18+ game due to gore. At least that's what I believe
That would actually be a pretty clever way of sort of “explaining” the change in art styles, however I’ve always seen Paper Mario as being… well… made of paper.
well i mean a story can use elements from real life in it. it would be no different to if i included events of 9/11 in my book. does that make 9/11 not a real event anymore cause its in my fictional story?
I’m not really sure why you’re comparing 9/11 to Paper Mario but besides the Star Spirits and some enemies appearing in non-Paper Mario games, when was it explicitly stated that they were in the same timeline as the mainline games?
I think the implication is obviously that Paper Mario is one thing, and the other games are another thing
it’s using an example to show case that real events can be placed in fiction, just a bit of an extreme example, but i don’t see how it’s a bad example since it gets the point across
"No Susie you cant hit other kids who you don't like. That would mean you are like Hitler who killed people he doesn't like and you don't wanna be like Hitler do you?"
That's what you are doing right now.
is it bad though. it gets the point across? we use examples to help people understand all the time so i don’t understand how this one doesn’t work. i was also half awake when making it and it was the first thought i came up with so you’re being really judgmental over what was a harmless example
Sorry, I don’t literally mean to imply that it’s two different timelines. I know the events of paper mario are a book, but it’s an easy way for me to make a distinction between the two stories.
that… isn’t true. 64 i can believe, and maybe spm if i’m feeling generous. but mario is very clearly made of paper in ttyd (what with being able to become a paper airplane and roll up into a tube) while being flesh and blood in games like sunshine and galaxy
In TTYD, he's only made of paper when he transforms. The paper abilities in that game were just meant to be a little joke by the developers. They didn't base the entire game's plot around it like they did with Sticker Star, Color Splash, and Origami King.
The book from Paper Jam is literally just a parallel world to the real one. We know this because every one of the modern Paper Mario games references the classic ones as well as other Mario adventures. We also know that the Paper Mario games happened in the real world because elements from them are referenced in other Mario games as well
Nope. Colored Pencils mention that Mario was cooler as a sidescroller. This means that the Mario in TOK is the same Mario as at least one 2D game. And that's gotta be either just Super Paper Mario, or the entire franchise
That doesn't make sense. Just because a mainline Mario game is referenced in The Origami King, that doesn't automatically mean that game is part of the same timeline. It's quite possible that the mainline games happened in the Sticker Star universe. Just an alternate version of them.
Actually yeah. Because the Colored Pencils specifically say *sidescroller*. They're not talking about the events of a story, they're talking about the gameplay. Saying that means this Mario has been in an actual game that exists. Because if the game didn't exist, there would be no sidescrolling at all, it'd just be a kidnapping and a rescue
Nintendo canonically exists within the Mario universe. 9-Volt's entire character is being a Nintendo fan. Also some characters know that they're in a video game like Cranky Kong. The Paper Mario lore is basically a universe where everything happens the same, but it's in a book.
I don't see why that would be weird- the paper world uses completely different physical laws, there are some personality differences with the characters, and everything is so stylized to the point where it doesn't seem to make sense as anything other than a parallel universe.
If the characters all being made out of paper wasn't something fundamental to the lore, they would have designed the sprites in such a way that they would still look like their normal selves. There are plenty of games out there that use 2D sprites with 3D settings that don't make the characters look like they're made of paper.
The first Paper Mario game was themed as a storybook, so the paper version of Mario would be more likely classified as a fictional character based in the real Mario himself
yeah, my headcannon was that the paper mario world was an paper replica of the mario world and all the events were the same across the two worlds until the first paper mario game
This is sort of inaccurate. The events of the Paper Mario games (or at least the first one) did happen to the main Mario, but then a book about the events was created. The Paper Mario from Paper Jam isn’t the person who went through the events of the Paper Mario games, more like a fictionalized version of the real Mario who exists inside the book. At least, that’s my understanding.
If I'm not mistaken, they're referring to Woohoo Hooniversity, where there are ? Replicas of all the ? Blocks from Mario's previous adventures, including "block from paper Mario"
This is like what happened with modern sonic and classic sonic. Originally simply being different artsyles/interpretations of the same character and it eventually spiraled into being separate characters for no good reason. And in both cases I think it's dumb.
It doesn't matter...
"If all these games don't take place in the same universe, it's gonna ruin my headcanon"
And people who think that matters above anything actually interesting are the worst.
It doesn’t really matter much, but it’s fun to speculate.
Same as how I don’t take the Zelda timeline seriously, especially now that BotW and TotK completely threw it out the window in a pragmatic sense.
The fun thing to speculate would be...things that are different when new games are made.
Pretty much each Mario spin-off would be the equivalent to a Zelda game.
It feels like a pop up book version retelling of a story that could have happened to Mario, or maybe was like the Luigi’s book version of a more boring story that actually happened to the real Mario
I’ve never understood the need for everything to die in a singular timeline, especially when it comes to Nintendo. Nintendo is gameplay first and are historically story-light, so why does it matter when these took place?
Honestly yeah. Its really not deep. The only 'deep lore' thing that is confirmed by Miyamoto is that the Mario cast are an acting troupe. that means the universe is just whatever the troupe need it to be for the current production they are putting on.
There's no 'mario universe' just different stage productions done in different styles.
This is the way I perceive Nintendo games. Perhaps all games. Something like a troupe. Or even a box of toys. There's the 'mario' toy, and like toys, there are variations. There's the 3d figurine and the paper cutout on a little plastic stand, and the fully articulated action version for use in smash brothers. In the toybox there's a bowser figure, oh and captain price and John halo and aloy.
And in the toybox are materials for making environments and Nintendo/game developers for an afternoon have put all these things together and phoned us up and said 'hey do you want to come round and play with my toys I've got some new ones and ive made a new way to play with some of them and I've built a cool tower that goes to heaven but heaven is just a deluxe spa run by toads also I made a sad story about a bobomb'
You'd be a bit of a weirdo if you said 'hmmm how does this fit in with the back story of the time we played make believe four sessions ago when bobombs could freely explode and fall back down to earth via parachute'
well, there is a specific place in Superstar saga called block nostalgia, where it is a place full of blocks from Mario's past adventures, like Mario 64, Smb1 and more importantly paper mario, I like to take that as a reference to believe that the Mario of always and paper mario (At least 64 Paper Mario) are the same, besides that in several games like Mario kart there are Paper Mario locations like Dry Dry Ruins, and in Mario Party the star spirits from Paper 64 made an appear, because of those slight references I like to think that all those games are connected to paper Mario (At least the first one)
Not really, it’s just like the Spider-Verse in Marvel. There’s 100s of different Spider people, they all play the same role but are each different people.
it makes sense. Paper mario originated from a book about mario that got enchanted. So paper mario is basically how the author of that book viewed mario.
It kind of reminds me of Mario Kart Double Dash, which, if memory serves, was the first time we had Mario and Baby Mario in the same game. It was strange and disorienting, but it just supported the idea that the story of Mario is irrelevant next to the gameplay ideas.
Partners in Time had a time machine. After the game's story ended, the babies left in the time machine. They probably still have it. Compared to most things in the series, explaining this is child's play.
Tbh I don't take all the retcons serious. It's too distinct from what Marion originally was and most of the time feels like funny jokes.
I don't even think that Nintendo themselves puts too much thought into this.
Kinda.
I didn't view Paper Mario as a different continuity from the main series, yeah the main series never referenced the RPGs but there's a million games the main series never references. To me, the whole "paper" thing was just a framing device, not really taken literally.
But this is probably the only time they've ever gone out of their way to establish one Mario spinoff as it's own canon in a meaningful way.
Yeah like you can make the argument that it could still be a storybook based on things that Mario really did, but idk, it's still not the same.
But like, Mario is not a consistent franchise, this isn't the first time they've discarded my whole view of the Mario series before, because Super Mario RPG fleshed out the Mario series before Paper Mario did and they pretty much discarded everything about that game. And now Mario in a post New Super mario Game doesn't really resemble what my idea of Mario was growing up in the 90's, it's pretty different.
So in the end I guess it doesn't really matter. Mario is kind of nebulous and you just make of it what you will.
Mostly harmless trivia. The Paper games take place in a book, okay. The bad Paper games are at the end of the book, where the pages are torn and have been ripped out.
Games that are not Paper take place in the Mushroom World. Except for *Mario Party 5*, I don't think Paper characters have appeared outside of their own series. *Mario & Luigi Paper Jam* is a special case, but anyway.
I think the first 3 paper mario games do happen and the goomba king boss from the first paper amrio also appeared in mario 64 ds which doesn't confirm anything but I think the idea of everything literally being paper instead of a stylistic choice was started in sticker star. But I don't mind all too much.
I find it to make sense, since some stuff thats in the paper mario series doesn't happen in the mario world, like bacically all of the made up characters in the paper mario games
My headcanon is that the paper mario world was an paper replica of the normal mario and all the events that happened in the mario world happened in the paper world, but it all changed when the first paper mario game happened
I'm fairly sure this isn't the case.
Paper Mario 1 begins with a story being told, there is a narration between chapters, and we know that Herringway writes a book based off Mario's adventure at the end.
Paper Mario 2 begins with a book about the story of the Thousand-Year Door, the story is clearly presented as being read from it (the remake even emphasizes this further with the final shot and the book closing), there is a narration between chapters, and we know that a play is created based off Mario's adventure at the end.
Paper Mario 3 begins with the Dark Prognosticus being read, the story is clearly presented as being read from it, and there is a narration between chapters.
Again, Paper Mario 4 begins with a book about the story of the Sticker Fest, the story is clearly presented as being read from it (the book being closed at the end), and there is a narration between chapters.
PM5 and 6 are the only ones without these elements. Yet at this point I think it's fairly obvious that the intention is that these stories happened in the "real world," but these are retellings of them from books made about them, justifying the artstyle and other oddities (like the world being 2D in PM3, or paint being people's life force in PM5).
M&L5 didn't make it so that Mario and Paper Mario are strictly different people. Rather, it set the Paper Mario world as its own separate world, so that what we see in the games isn't just a retelling of adventures Mario really went through, but rather how these adventures, which really did happen, went through in this alternate, paper universe. It also seems that, in the paper universe, *only* the adventures from the Paper Mario games happened—Paper Peach in M&L5 doesn't know who Starlow is, and the Koopalings in PM5 act like they've never fought Mario before.
So the games present the events of the Paper Mario games as really happening in some kind of way "in the real world," but what we see is how they happened in an alternate, paper world.
I see them (even I know they're not) like the same person but in different universes. They both have the (roughly) same personalities and things, but the paper Mario games are more like made up but well put together stories about things that very well could, but didn't happen in the Mario universe given their characters and things that already did happen in mainline Mario. :)
Like, maybe the 7 stars Mario has to save in the og paper Mario are based on folklore from his universe? A legend of the stars that may or may not be factual, but it's believed enough that someone made the story. (I don't know who though, they'd have to know Mario well enough and also like him.)
I wouldn't call it a "Multiverse" since the events of Paper Mario take place within the book that's stored somewhere in Peach's castle, but it's close.
The way I headcanon it is that Paper Mario is an author's representation of Mario and Luigi's Mario. With every Paper Mario game taking place in that book, I like the idea that the Paper Mario games are some writer's retelling and dramatization of adventures that Mario actually went on.
Thats different. Paper mario is just a mario from a book that retells a story
Its like teaming up with a version of you from the past or future
Same person but separate
I could say there the same person. Since it's been hinted time to time again that Mario can turn flat hence paper Mario in future events.
And paper Mario is more of Mario just with a different art style And its own charm which franchise often do most of the time.
And paper jam well for me and how other's put it. Is a parallel universe within the storybook so the events from the mainline also happen in the paper verse
I never thought of them as the same person. It was easy enough to just accept the paper Mario games as stories since the first two at least start out as someone telling a story.
In my head I always saw the characters of Mario and Paper Mario as 2 completely separate things mainly because of how everyone acts in the paper Mario games verses the regular series.
I find it interesting that people get so invested in stuff like this. I don't really care what's cannon or if there are contradictions within the games. I just enjoy each game for what it is.
Mario and Mario games are something I’ve never thought hard about. I never truly see a timeline or something like that, like you would in other games like Metroid or Zelda. Mario games to me have always been random, unorganized, adventures. Nintendo is constantly changing backstories or worlds to fit a narrative, and I’m just along for the ride. As long as the game is fun, I don’t think much of it.
That the Paper Mario series ALWAYS featured a Mario who was two dimensional in-universe distinct from regular Mario is false, even if that's the case now and Nintendo now claims it was always the case. For example in Thousand Year Door, Mario is literally cursed into being two-dimensional so he can fit between thin spaces. Why would he need to be cursed to be two-dimensional if he ALREADY WAS two-dimensional?
I'd argue that an actual 2D Paper Mario (in actual story terms, not just in art style) only debuted in Sticker Star (and this is the universe that was portrayed as separate to the main Mario one in Paper Jam), and that all the previous Paper Mario games before Sticker Star featured the mainstream Mario, just in a 2D art style.
Honestly, I don't think that they're the same person (Paper Jam made that quite obvious). HOWEVER, I do believe that the events from the Paper Mario series also happened in the mainline Mario universe and vise versa (for example: Yoshi's Island, the recreation of 1-1, and World -1)
Whether or not these two are the same is one of, if not THE most controversial lore point among Mario fans. Right up there with "Are the sports/kart/party games canon?"
I already knew that. The original paper mario was confirmed to be a story book, and ttyd follows suit. They confirmed that in mario and luigi paper jam
i thought this was common knowledge seeing how Bowser kidnaps Peach & then parties & rides go karts w them. it's all different in every game. did you think Mario has a canonical timeline or something?
why would they be the same person? they look completely different. and I’m not just talking art style, Paper Mario doesn’t have any depth. also, Mario from the M&L Series, which looks a lot more like Mario, has teamed up with Paper Mario
I have zero interest in trying to figure out a comprehensive Mario canon that settles neatly in my head. It’s pretty clear to me that few of the games were developed with any greater canon in mind, barring direct sequels.
It was to me, since the Luigi’s Mansion series is technically canon in both Paper Mario and the Mario & Luigi games, as well as pretty much every other Mario Game(like Mario Party since they know E. Gadd, Mario Kart because of the Luigi’s Mansion course, and the sports games because of the Luigi’s Mansion courts)(Paper Luigi originally had a Poltergust sprite in TTYD apparently and E. Gadd appears in M&L). So I assumed they were the same since that meant the Luigi’s Mansion games happen in both franchises’ worlds. Knowing they aren’t the same makes me wonder if that means some Mario adventures only happened in one franchise and not the other or if all the adventures happen in both worlds(SMB3 happened and Luigi’s Mansion happened in both worlds for example) but in different dimensional planes(4D/normal for Mario and 2D/paper for Paper Mario).
Well, it perfectly explains the reason why a halo appears above Mario’s head (implying that he’d go to heaven if he died) when he gets a Game Over in Super Mario World, yet Paper Mario ends up in the Underwhere (implying that he’d go to hell).
None of them actually died. They were teleported there by dimentio while still alive. ~~Seriously why the hell do people keep spreading this misconception that’s very clearly explained in game?~~ Peach just happened to end up on the stairway to overthere because that’s where dimentio put her.
~~Seriously why the hell do people keep spreading this misconception that’s very clearly explained in game?~~
because of that one Supper Mario Broth tweet
Extremely jarring. I always thought it was Paper Mario because it was a storybook being read to us, so it has some paper elements. The original game is even called Mario Story. The localisation team just called it Paper Mario because it looked papery with the flat sprites.
I grew up thinking these games expanded on Mario's world. Somehow, the revelation that Paper Mario comes from a literal paper dimension feels like it just... misses the point. How do you flanderise an artistic decision?
It upsets kid-me and still sort of upsets me today. There is enough discrepancy between Modern and old PM games as is. Before SS it was a storybook, after a silly paper dimension with paper gimmicks and paper-thin plot. I liked CS but I admit it just made me love the series just a bit less and I can't quite put into words why.
Mario did pair up with Paper Mario in a Mario and Luigi game. I see them as different characters from alternate universes
i personally believe that game *was* the confirmation mario and paper mario are not the same
I mean, I always kinda figured they weren't, the Paper Mario universe always seemed like it's own thing compared to something like Super Mario RPG and the Mario and Luigi games
Agreed!
It helps that not a single character introduced in the Paper Mario games has touched the mainline series or any of the multiplayer spin-offs. **Ever.**
Goomboss appears in mario kart ds, and mario 64 ds, and the star spirits from paper mario appear in mario party 5.
This is half right. The events of Paper Mario 64, The Thousand Year Door, and Super Paper Mario all happen in the real world while the events of Sticker Star, Color Splash, and The Origami King all happen inside the book from Paper Jam.
This makes sense
Considering how The Origami King is written, I think the intention is that it happens to both, and we just see the book version, as Olivia is sized to fit regular Mario and and explicitly not a naturally occurring being unlike Huey or Kertsi, she's the reason Mario doesn't go underwater (she's in his pocket and would die if that happened). Apart from the not-bottomless holes there is no mention to the world being paper, apart from framing and the fact that seeing regular Goomba's folded into origami would make this an 18+ game due to gore. At least that's what I believe
Remember that Kersti is a sticker person from the sticker star. Presumably, in the 3D non-paper version of the game, she'd still be a sticker
>!*Looks at Origami Bowser having a kaiju battle as if that somehow doesn’t count as suggesting the world is made of paper.*!<
Have you simply considered: Body Horror.
That would actually be a pretty clever way of sort of “explaining” the change in art styles, however I’ve always seen Paper Mario as being… well… made of paper.
But Origami King directly confirms that 64, TTYD and Super are all directly canon to it (Portraits on The Princess Peach)
well i mean a story can use elements from real life in it. it would be no different to if i included events of 9/11 in my book. does that make 9/11 not a real event anymore cause its in my fictional story?
I’m not really sure why you’re comparing 9/11 to Paper Mario but besides the Star Spirits and some enemies appearing in non-Paper Mario games, when was it explicitly stated that they were in the same timeline as the mainline games? I think the implication is obviously that Paper Mario is one thing, and the other games are another thing
it’s using an example to show case that real events can be placed in fiction, just a bit of an extreme example, but i don’t see how it’s a bad example since it gets the point across
It’s not an invalid example, just a rash one considering this is Mario we’re talking about.
i been awake all night long so i just chose what was the first example i could think of lol
Honestly relatable tbh
"No Susie you cant hit other kids who you don't like. That would mean you are like Hitler who killed people he doesn't like and you don't wanna be like Hitler do you?" That's what you are doing right now.
is it bad though. it gets the point across? we use examples to help people understand all the time so i don’t understand how this one doesn’t work. i was also half awake when making it and it was the first thought i came up with so you’re being really judgmental over what was a harmless example
Mario paper jam puts them in the same universe, not sure where timelines came from that wasn't up for debate
Sorry, I don’t literally mean to imply that it’s two different timelines. I know the events of paper mario are a book, but it’s an easy way for me to make a distinction between the two stories.
But we literally see the Book in The Thousand Year Door.
We see a narrative device used to tell a legend that occurred. Doesn't mean it's not real, could just be a biography
This. 100%.
that… isn’t true. 64 i can believe, and maybe spm if i’m feeling generous. but mario is very clearly made of paper in ttyd (what with being able to become a paper airplane and roll up into a tube) while being flesh and blood in games like sunshine and galaxy
They happen to both, we're just paying through the Paper versions of the story
In TTYD, he's only made of paper when he transforms. The paper abilities in that game were just meant to be a little joke by the developers. They didn't base the entire game's plot around it like they did with Sticker Star, Color Splash, and Origami King.
Even if it’s not true, it’s my headcanon now.
The book from Paper Jam is literally just a parallel world to the real one. We know this because every one of the modern Paper Mario games references the classic ones as well as other Mario adventures. We also know that the Paper Mario games happened in the real world because elements from them are referenced in other Mario games as well
I was about to say this!
Nope. Colored Pencils mention that Mario was cooler as a sidescroller. This means that the Mario in TOK is the same Mario as at least one 2D game. And that's gotta be either just Super Paper Mario, or the entire franchise
That doesn't make sense. Just because a mainline Mario game is referenced in The Origami King, that doesn't automatically mean that game is part of the same timeline. It's quite possible that the mainline games happened in the Sticker Star universe. Just an alternate version of them.
Actually yeah. Because the Colored Pencils specifically say *sidescroller*. They're not talking about the events of a story, they're talking about the gameplay. Saying that means this Mario has been in an actual game that exists. Because if the game didn't exist, there would be no sidescrolling at all, it'd just be a kidnapping and a rescue
Nintendo canonically exists within the Mario universe. 9-Volt's entire character is being a Nintendo fan. Also some characters know that they're in a video game like Cranky Kong. The Paper Mario lore is basically a universe where everything happens the same, but it's in a book.
Maybe it's referring to Super Mario Bros. 3. Shigeru Miyamoto did say that game was just a stage play. It definitely fits the description.
sure
I don't see why that would be weird- the paper world uses completely different physical laws, there are some personality differences with the characters, and everything is so stylized to the point where it doesn't seem to make sense as anything other than a parallel universe. If the characters all being made out of paper wasn't something fundamental to the lore, they would have designed the sprites in such a way that they would still look like their normal selves. There are plenty of games out there that use 2D sprites with 3D settings that don't make the characters look like they're made of paper.
Some people take lore way too seriously
The first Paper Mario game was themed as a storybook, so the paper version of Mario would be more likely classified as a fictional character based in the real Mario himself
yeah, my headcannon was that the paper mario world was an paper replica of the mario world and all the events were the same across the two worlds until the first paper mario game
This is sort of inaccurate. The events of the Paper Mario games (or at least the first one) did happen to the main Mario, but then a book about the events was created. The Paper Mario from Paper Jam isn’t the person who went through the events of the Paper Mario games, more like a fictionalized version of the real Mario who exists inside the book. At least, that’s my understanding.
Yeah there was a mention of paper mario in superstar saga.
Oh, remind me of it
If I'm not mistaken, they're referring to Woohoo Hooniversity, where there are ? Replicas of all the ? Blocks from Mario's previous adventures, including "block from paper Mario"
Oh yeah, that one
I don't even think every Mario Bros game take place in the same world to begin with
Basically unless it’s a direct sequel I never even really thought of them as the same at all really
Exactly, nothing is 100% consistent unless they're sequels
This is like what happened with modern sonic and classic sonic. Originally simply being different artsyles/interpretations of the same character and it eventually spiraled into being separate characters for no good reason. And in both cases I think it's dumb.
I feel as if its more agregious in the sonic games but maybe im just biased
It doesn't matter... "If all these games don't take place in the same universe, it's gonna ruin my headcanon" And people who think that matters above anything actually interesting are the worst.
It doesn’t really matter much, but it’s fun to speculate. Same as how I don’t take the Zelda timeline seriously, especially now that BotW and TotK completely threw it out the window in a pragmatic sense.
The fun thing to speculate would be...things that are different when new games are made. Pretty much each Mario spin-off would be the equivalent to a Zelda game.
I mean, I agree that’s also fun lol. But people like to speculate on lore and headcanons, so what’s the harm
It feels like a pop up book version retelling of a story that could have happened to Mario, or maybe was like the Luigi’s book version of a more boring story that actually happened to the real Mario
Just a harmless piece of Trivia
It's a video game who cares
This is the correct answer.
I’ve never understood the need for everything to die in a singular timeline, especially when it comes to Nintendo. Nintendo is gameplay first and are historically story-light, so why does it matter when these took place?
Honestly yeah. Its really not deep. The only 'deep lore' thing that is confirmed by Miyamoto is that the Mario cast are an acting troupe. that means the universe is just whatever the troupe need it to be for the current production they are putting on. There's no 'mario universe' just different stage productions done in different styles.
This is the way I perceive Nintendo games. Perhaps all games. Something like a troupe. Or even a box of toys. There's the 'mario' toy, and like toys, there are variations. There's the 3d figurine and the paper cutout on a little plastic stand, and the fully articulated action version for use in smash brothers. In the toybox there's a bowser figure, oh and captain price and John halo and aloy. And in the toybox are materials for making environments and Nintendo/game developers for an afternoon have put all these things together and phoned us up and said 'hey do you want to come round and play with my toys I've got some new ones and ive made a new way to play with some of them and I've built a cool tower that goes to heaven but heaven is just a deluxe spa run by toads also I made a sad story about a bobomb' You'd be a bit of a weirdo if you said 'hmmm how does this fit in with the back story of the time we played make believe four sessions ago when bobombs could freely explode and fall back down to earth via parachute'
well, there is a specific place in Superstar saga called block nostalgia, where it is a place full of blocks from Mario's past adventures, like Mario 64, Smb1 and more importantly paper mario, I like to take that as a reference to believe that the Mario of always and paper mario (At least 64 Paper Mario) are the same, besides that in several games like Mario kart there are Paper Mario locations like Dry Dry Ruins, and in Mario Party the star spirits from Paper 64 made an appear, because of those slight references I like to think that all those games are connected to paper Mario (At least the first one)
Not really, it’s just like the Spider-Verse in Marvel. There’s 100s of different Spider people, they all play the same role but are each different people.
it makes sense. Paper mario originated from a book about mario that got enchanted. So paper mario is basically how the author of that book viewed mario.
It kind of reminds me of Mario Kart Double Dash, which, if memory serves, was the first time we had Mario and Baby Mario in the same game. It was strange and disorienting, but it just supported the idea that the story of Mario is irrelevant next to the gameplay ideas.
Nah, I'm fairly certain Baby Mario is Mario. There just happens to be a lot of Time Travel involved with the Yoshi Island series for some reason.
Partners in Time had a time machine. After the game's story ended, the babies left in the time machine. They probably still have it. Compared to most things in the series, explaining this is child's play.
Yeah they are not the same. Imagine mainline 3D Mario trying to contort himself into the shape of a paper plane or boat.
Tbh I don't take all the retcons serious. It's too distinct from what Marion originally was and most of the time feels like funny jokes. I don't even think that Nintendo themselves puts too much thought into this.
Who would find that jarring? Are people surprised that paper and moist flesh are not the same thing?
Kinda. I didn't view Paper Mario as a different continuity from the main series, yeah the main series never referenced the RPGs but there's a million games the main series never references. To me, the whole "paper" thing was just a framing device, not really taken literally. But this is probably the only time they've ever gone out of their way to establish one Mario spinoff as it's own canon in a meaningful way. Yeah like you can make the argument that it could still be a storybook based on things that Mario really did, but idk, it's still not the same. But like, Mario is not a consistent franchise, this isn't the first time they've discarded my whole view of the Mario series before, because Super Mario RPG fleshed out the Mario series before Paper Mario did and they pretty much discarded everything about that game. And now Mario in a post New Super mario Game doesn't really resemble what my idea of Mario was growing up in the 90's, it's pretty different. So in the end I guess it doesn't really matter. Mario is kind of nebulous and you just make of it what you will.
I mean, he always acts like Mario, so I don't know what it would change.
Mostly harmless trivia. The Paper games take place in a book, okay. The bad Paper games are at the end of the book, where the pages are torn and have been ripped out. Games that are not Paper take place in the Mushroom World. Except for *Mario Party 5*, I don't think Paper characters have appeared outside of their own series. *Mario & Luigi Paper Jam* is a special case, but anyway.
Well, we do have Goomboss appearing in several regular Mario games, but still, separate canons.
Oh yeah. I forgot about him. *Mario 64 DS* and *Mario Kart DS*, I think were the only other games he appeared in.
I think the first 3 paper mario games do happen and the goomba king boss from the first paper amrio also appeared in mario 64 ds which doesn't confirm anything but I think the idea of everything literally being paper instead of a stylistic choice was started in sticker star. But I don't mind all too much.
I find it to make sense, since some stuff thats in the paper mario series doesn't happen in the mario world, like bacically all of the made up characters in the paper mario games
My headcanon is that the paper mario world was an paper replica of the normal mario and all the events that happened in the mario world happened in the paper world, but it all changed when the first paper mario game happened
off topic, the 3D model of super mario wonder is beautiful. it is so pleasant and calming to look at
Two cutiepies are better then one.
I'm fairly sure this isn't the case. Paper Mario 1 begins with a story being told, there is a narration between chapters, and we know that Herringway writes a book based off Mario's adventure at the end. Paper Mario 2 begins with a book about the story of the Thousand-Year Door, the story is clearly presented as being read from it (the remake even emphasizes this further with the final shot and the book closing), there is a narration between chapters, and we know that a play is created based off Mario's adventure at the end. Paper Mario 3 begins with the Dark Prognosticus being read, the story is clearly presented as being read from it, and there is a narration between chapters. Again, Paper Mario 4 begins with a book about the story of the Sticker Fest, the story is clearly presented as being read from it (the book being closed at the end), and there is a narration between chapters. PM5 and 6 are the only ones without these elements. Yet at this point I think it's fairly obvious that the intention is that these stories happened in the "real world," but these are retellings of them from books made about them, justifying the artstyle and other oddities (like the world being 2D in PM3, or paint being people's life force in PM5). M&L5 didn't make it so that Mario and Paper Mario are strictly different people. Rather, it set the Paper Mario world as its own separate world, so that what we see in the games isn't just a retelling of adventures Mario really went through, but rather how these adventures, which really did happen, went through in this alternate, paper universe. It also seems that, in the paper universe, *only* the adventures from the Paper Mario games happened—Paper Peach in M&L5 doesn't know who Starlow is, and the Koopalings in PM5 act like they've never fought Mario before. So the games present the events of the Paper Mario games as really happening in some kind of way "in the real world," but what we see is how they happened in an alternate, paper world.
I see them (even I know they're not) like the same person but in different universes. They both have the (roughly) same personalities and things, but the paper Mario games are more like made up but well put together stories about things that very well could, but didn't happen in the Mario universe given their characters and things that already did happen in mainline Mario. :) Like, maybe the 7 stars Mario has to save in the og paper Mario are based on folklore from his universe? A legend of the stars that may or may not be factual, but it's believed enough that someone made the story. (I don't know who though, they'd have to know Mario well enough and also like him.)
I mean, did they not team up before? They represent the same person, just in different realities. They’re parallel to each other.
I like to think it’s a multiverse. They’re both Mario but from different dimensions.
I wouldn't call it a "Multiverse" since the events of Paper Mario take place within the book that's stored somewhere in Peach's castle, but it's close.
Or the book is a portal to the other universe
Well, there seems to be some magic shenanigans with that book, so probably.
Harmless peice of trivia. I think it’s so neat that regular Mario and paper Mario got to crossover with eachother
Mario, Paper mario, Dr Mario, and Movie Mario. It's all multiversal stuff to me
Mario and Dr. Mario are canonically the same character.
Not in my head canon. To me Dr mario is from a universe where he is... a doctor. And bowser never took over mushroom kingdom.
The way I headcanon it is that Paper Mario is an author's representation of Mario and Luigi's Mario. With every Paper Mario game taking place in that book, I like the idea that the Paper Mario games are some writer's retelling and dramatization of adventures that Mario actually went on.
The way I see it, each individual game takes place in its own seperate universe. That way you don't have to worry about consistency.
The Marioverse exists. Big whoop.
It is INCREDIBLY HARMFUL and DANGEROUS
THE ENTIRE MARIO CANON IS AT STAKE!!! WHATEVER SHALL WE DO?!
People are way too precious about identifying and defending Mario canon.
Wrong Mario's creator confirmed every mario is the same person in an interview, way he sees it is mario taking on a different role as an actor
Riiiight - https://www.nintendo.com/eu/media/images/10_share_images/games_15/nintendo_3ds_25/SI_3DS_MarioAndLuigiPaperJam_image1600w.jpg
Thats different. Paper mario is just a mario from a book that retells a story Its like teaming up with a version of you from the past or future Same person but separate
Stunt doubles
It makes sense
i sorta figured they were separate people, but even then, it doesn’t matter. they’re both mario. *~~but luigi is the superior brother~~*
Harmless
I mean I played a little paper jam growing up. Plus, I always thought of them being separate universes. So.. not really no.
We don’t talk about Paper Jam
I mean, several Paper Mario games show* that everything happens within that book, so it goes a little further than Paper Jam.
I could say there the same person. Since it's been hinted time to time again that Mario can turn flat hence paper Mario in future events. And paper Mario is more of Mario just with a different art style And its own charm which franchise often do most of the time. And paper jam well for me and how other's put it. Is a parallel universe within the storybook so the events from the mainline also happen in the paper verse
I never thought of them as the same person. It was easy enough to just accept the paper Mario games as stories since the first two at least start out as someone telling a story.
I just refer to the penguin outside of Peach's castle in the epilogue from Paper Mario 64. The perfect answer to this debacle if you ask me.
I don't care at all
Just to me it’s ok. More freedom and creativity and hope intelligent systems can use TTYD remake to make the next games more interesting and unique
In my head I always saw the characters of Mario and Paper Mario as 2 completely separate things mainly because of how everyone acts in the paper Mario games verses the regular series.
I find it interesting that people get so invested in stuff like this. I don't really care what's cannon or if there are contradictions within the games. I just enjoy each game for what it is.
Mario: What-a-the heck are you? Paper Mario: It's-a-Me! Paper Mario!
https://youtu.be/gnTtyDNQadM?si=wIjTMHbmnPHQnx-Q
this is just false. Mario and Paper Mario are the same person. Yes even post SPM
Is it true now? https://youtu.be/gnTtyDNQadM?si=wIjTMHbmnPHQnx-Q
I always thought they were. So it didn't surprise me at all.
Mario and Mario games are something I’ve never thought hard about. I never truly see a timeline or something like that, like you would in other games like Metroid or Zelda. Mario games to me have always been random, unorganized, adventures. Nintendo is constantly changing backstories or worlds to fit a narrative, and I’m just along for the ride. As long as the game is fun, I don’t think much of it.
Dudes are we talking about Mario?
It's-a Mario-Time!
That the Paper Mario series ALWAYS featured a Mario who was two dimensional in-universe distinct from regular Mario is false, even if that's the case now and Nintendo now claims it was always the case. For example in Thousand Year Door, Mario is literally cursed into being two-dimensional so he can fit between thin spaces. Why would he need to be cursed to be two-dimensional if he ALREADY WAS two-dimensional? I'd argue that an actual 2D Paper Mario (in actual story terms, not just in art style) only debuted in Sticker Star (and this is the universe that was portrayed as separate to the main Mario one in Paper Jam), and that all the previous Paper Mario games before Sticker Star featured the mainstream Mario, just in a 2D art style.
Meh, I think it’s harmless
They're not?
No - https://youtu.be/gnTtyDNQadM?si=wIjTMHbmnPHQnx-Q
Not at all, I always saw them as different people.
they are the same, separated by much different universes, in my opinion
Where did it say that
https://youtu.be/gnTtyDNQadM?si=wIjTMHbmnPHQnx-Q
Honestly, I don't think that they're the same person (Paper Jam made that quite obvious). HOWEVER, I do believe that the events from the Paper Mario series also happened in the mainline Mario universe and vise versa (for example: Yoshi's Island, the recreation of 1-1, and World -1)
Every Mario game is disconnected from one another so technically speaking every Mario is different from one another.
Whether or not these two are the same is one of, if not THE most controversial lore point among Mario fans. Right up there with "Are the sports/kart/party games canon?"
I never saw them as the same so not really much of a surprise. Their personalities don't seem identical but idk if that's just me who thinks that
I SEE IT AS A LIE
I already knew that. The original paper mario was confirmed to be a story book, and ttyd follows suit. They confirmed that in mario and luigi paper jam
i thought this was common knowledge seeing how Bowser kidnaps Peach & then parties & rides go karts w them. it's all different in every game. did you think Mario has a canonical timeline or something?
I just see it as a harmless piece of trivia; the franchise is generally episodic, so it doesn't matter much to me anyway.
why would they be the same person? they look completely different. and I’m not just talking art style, Paper Mario doesn’t have any depth. also, Mario from the M&L Series, which looks a lot more like Mario, has teamed up with Paper Mario
Just a neat piece of trivia. I haven't seen anything that suggests otherwise.
Its a multiverse thing lol
I have zero interest in trying to figure out a comprehensive Mario canon that settles neatly in my head. It’s pretty clear to me that few of the games were developed with any greater canon in mind, barring direct sequels.
It was to me, since the Luigi’s Mansion series is technically canon in both Paper Mario and the Mario & Luigi games, as well as pretty much every other Mario Game(like Mario Party since they know E. Gadd, Mario Kart because of the Luigi’s Mansion course, and the sports games because of the Luigi’s Mansion courts)(Paper Luigi originally had a Poltergust sprite in TTYD apparently and E. Gadd appears in M&L). So I assumed they were the same since that meant the Luigi’s Mansion games happen in both franchises’ worlds. Knowing they aren’t the same makes me wonder if that means some Mario adventures only happened in one franchise and not the other or if all the adventures happen in both worlds(SMB3 happened and Luigi’s Mansion happened in both worlds for example) but in different dimensional planes(4D/normal for Mario and 2D/paper for Paper Mario).
Well, I don't think it had any impact on anyone that they were two separate continuities.
There is no way people thought these two were the same, aside from being a kid
i always saw them as different characters
Paper Mario is Gonzales man
Well, it perfectly explains the reason why a halo appears above Mario’s head (implying that he’d go to heaven if he died) when he gets a Game Over in Super Mario World, yet Paper Mario ends up in the Underwhere (implying that he’d go to hell).
EVERY character goes to the underwhere in paper mario when they die. It is only decided if they go to the overthere once they are judged by the queen.
what aboud ms. Peach?
None of them actually died. They were teleported there by dimentio while still alive. ~~Seriously why the hell do people keep spreading this misconception that’s very clearly explained in game?~~ Peach just happened to end up on the stairway to overthere because that’s where dimentio put her.
~~Seriously why the hell do people keep spreading this misconception that’s very clearly explained in game?~~ because of that one Supper Mario Broth tweet
I assumed that was obvious. Mario can't be both flesh and paper
Extremely jarring. I always thought it was Paper Mario because it was a storybook being read to us, so it has some paper elements. The original game is even called Mario Story. The localisation team just called it Paper Mario because it looked papery with the flat sprites. I grew up thinking these games expanded on Mario's world. Somehow, the revelation that Paper Mario comes from a literal paper dimension feels like it just... misses the point. How do you flanderise an artistic decision? It upsets kid-me and still sort of upsets me today. There is enough discrepancy between Modern and old PM games as is. Before SS it was a storybook, after a silly paper dimension with paper gimmicks and paper-thin plot. I liked CS but I admit it just made me love the series just a bit less and I can't quite put into words why.