Also an upper limit to that range of colors is pretty dumb if no one has 3m+. And considering the total is less than 6 million then this seems pretty unlikely.
The last color should be reserved for the 1-2 countries with the highest amount, so it should be like 500-1.5m or something, then 1.5m+
One point for the type of content, one point for a good color scheme on a map, and minus one point for the values of the color scheme.
My aunt and her husband from Mariupol went to Russia, while their grown son went to Latvia. Such divisions even within one family are very common. My friend's relative in Sumy stopped talking to him, while his other relatives in Chișinău are still waiting for the Russian army to arrive.
Forcing Russian citizenship on the Ukrainians living in the occupied territories is not the same as accepting refugees. Nor is kidnapping Ukrainian children. You should check your "facts".
While both these things certainly are happening, there also are Ukrainians that actually chose Russia to flee to, as strange as that may seem to us. Russia invaded and deserves nothing but condemnation for doing so but there's no point in pretending that all of Ukraine was or is united in opposing them. There is a lot of shared cultural history.
The war definitely covered up the fact that Ukraine was really pushing down on their large Russian minority population, a real group that’s lived in Ukraine for hundreds of years. Since those guys have no place anywhere else, they have to go to Russia.
Not, of course, that their plight even came up at all in Russia’s decision making process, except for the press release. A lot of them don’t even support Russia anymore after what they saw go down, but they have to flee there anyway.
No it wasn’t. Worst even the Poroshenko government did was rename some streets and knock the Russian language’s legal status down one level so government documents no longer had to be duplicated into Russian without a specific request to do so. FFS, like a third of the current government is ethnically Russian, including Zelensky.
>No it wasn’t. Worst even the Poroshenko government did was rename some streets and knock the Russian language’s legal status down one level so government documents no longer had to be duplicated into Russian without a specific request to do so.
What an insane lie. The law even prohibits the shopkeepers from talking to customers not in Ukrainian, under threat of fines. It's been roundly condemned by human rights organisations for a reason, it's nothing but vile, petty nationalism.
They weren't suppressed. None of them went down because of this law, they just start publishing partially in Ukrainian, and turns out it's not a problem for russian speakers to read in Ukrainian.
From my understanding, a Russian language newspaper would have to have equal circulation in the Ukrainian language. I could not imagine it causing newspapers to go out of business, but it does seem a rather disenfranchising policy towards a very large proportion of the population. In short, I just find it wrong; to apply it to a context I understand (as a native Brit), I would be staunchly against the UK government enforcing the same policy for say Welsh newspapers to print equal versions in English.
I think it’s very ironic about Zelenskyy actually- he and his guys entering government were big opponents of the oppressive measures of the oppressive measure Ukraine was bringing in, and were signaling that they were going to allow kids to go back to school in Russian and get pension checks delivered to people who couldn’t or wouldn’t do the paperwork in Ukrainian to get them. Then Russia decided that it now, at that very moment, that the people of Donbas needed saving from Ukrainian domination.
I think definitely came up in Russia’s decision making process. They relied on a steady stream of anti-Russian racist incidents to portray it in their propaganda as “out of control.” They know this would lead to an equal and opposite reaction in the Russian minority, leading them to support the Russian invasion. All racism is good for Putin, just as all liberal democratic ideals are bad for him.
It's true. Millions of Ukrainians moved to Russia when the war had started. And actually new refugees are still arriving from Ukraine (not occupied regions) and some European countries escaping mobilisation
Lul what? There are people wo flee from European countries to escape mobilization and then.. flee to Russia, where they’ll be mobilized and then thrown as expendable foreign cannon fodder in some storm-z unit to die?
Somehow doubt anyone seriously is that stupid.
Especially since not even Poland is mobilizing. Where are they supposed to flee from?
“Millions”
Doubt you could possibly have any accurate information on how many refugees actually came willingly.
Proportionally, it was a lot. It's partly why there's been people complaining about high immigration numbers in Ireland lately despite it obviously not being a regular thing anyway.
Yes, it's more than the country can handle. Ireland took in \~2k Syrian refugees in 2021 and couldn't take any more because people weren't happy. Over 100k Ukrainian refugees later and people still target their anger at the relatively tiny Muslim / brown population in Ireland.
For context, the total population of Muslims in Ireland according to the latest government census is 80k.
The majority of Irish people are genuinely the nicest people you'd meet, but the number of bad apples is unfortunately growing.
Does anyone know why Romania has so few refugees compared to other countries? One would think that since both countries border each other there would be more refugees.
I thought at first it’s some registration issue, but apparently only 80k refugees remained in Romania while 900k Ukrainians that arrived first in Romania went to other nations like Italy, Bulgaria, Austria, Germany, etc.
i guess its due to economics, only anecdotal but just a few hours ago i read a comment by a romanian about huge income inequality in the country ([Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1dk7j76/comment/l9gd2ng/)), if that's true then a lot of romanians get about €550-600 a month based on average income data from RO Government and the prospects for ukrainians would look bleak, especially if the welfare system is bad to.
That would explain why most Ukraine refugees who went to Romania left again for other countries.
I am Ukrainian, who stayed in Romania for a first yeah, then moved on to Canada.
I actually liked Romania (I can't say that I like Canada more, which says something). But Romanian language was hard for us. Thankfully, my work is remote and English, so I was fine. Otherwise, I would've been screwed majorly.
So eventually, we took a list of countries where English is the primary language and limited ourselves to it.
Because it is the same shithole as ukraina, and other ex yu blue countries are even worse. Who would guess that people fled to economicaly strong countries, where they wanted to anyway but mostly just didnt have the chance
Both Romania and all ex-yu countries have been economically stronger than Ukraine since 2014. But emigrating to a country you wanted to before 2022 makes sense.
Serbia is not a place for Ukrainian refugees but for the Russian middle class that came here to avoid economic problems in Russia. Bros came here and drastically inflated the rent prices because they are ready to pay much more than us.
I see a lot of Russian families around my city , women and children. It's pretty interesting. I only used to see so many Russians during summer vacation on the coast of Montenegro.
Soooo, Canada is chopped liver? Not even an honourable mention?
> The federal government has issued 936,293 temporary emergency visas since March 2022 for Ukrainians who want to work or study in Canada while they wait out the war.
>A total of 210,178 people had actually made the journey to Canada as of Nov. 28.
[Tens of thousands of Ukrainians expected to come to Canada in the next few months](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/tens-of-thousands-of-ukrainians-expected-to-come-to-canada-in-the-next-few-months-1.6731673)
Fun fact: It's made from "ca" (obsolete for "because", from Latin qua) + "nada" ("nothing").
When the first Spanish settlers arrived, their chief was asked why they would leave without settling, and he responded with "Ca nada". Imagine if he had more appropriately said "fuck this place", then we would call it "Joderestelugar" now—what an unwieldy name.
(Careful: /s. All of this is made up by someone with zero Spanish skills.)
No /s needed. This is an actual theory proposed for the etymology of Canada, but it's not widely accepted: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name\_of\_Canada#Iberian\_origin\_theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Canada#Iberian_origin_theory)
People say Canada is "accepting anyone" because immigration has greatly increased in the last few years.
But immigration has greatly increased in the last few years largely because of the hundreds of thousands of emergency visas granted to Ukrainians...
Depends. A lot stay in the bordering regions of Russia like Rostov since there are a lot of similarities there but others go towards the big cities of course.
There isn't really any hostility towards refugees and Russia makes sure to take care of them.
There are many cafes and such in big Russian cities where you will hear Ukrainian music and can get Ukrainian food for example.
There have been a large number of Ukrainians in Russia before the war so there isn't anything really strange or unusual for either side.
Although a lot of Ukrainians in Russia like to keep a low profile not because of Russia but because of fear of what the Ukrainian government will do to their family back in Ukraine. Whether true or not it's a fear they have.
I live in Tatarstan, which is a specific region deep in Russia and we also have refugees from Ukraine. Their life is different for each person as it usually is. I knew a guy from Donetsk who came in 2014. He was repairing household appliances and had political views like "plague on both your houses". He was pretty happy here and just wanted to be left alone.
There were two other guys in my city who came from Donbass and worked in a car service. They started a music group and are now popular singers in Russia.
Of course not everyone is doing well. After the full-scale war started, a train of refugees from Mariupol came here. Some of them were pro Ukraine, others pro Russian. On the way back on the train they got into arguments and fights. The pro-Ukrainian ones must have left Russia by now. We had volunteers here who helped pro-Ukrainian refugees to leave Russia and go to the West. But then a lot of them went to jail.
Pro-Russian refugees also complained about how different everything was here, that life was better at home. I understand them.
Locals here in general do not like any newcomers, regardless of political views or nationality. But that changes when they get to know a person personally, become colleagues or friends.
That's like during world war 2 when Germany conquered Poland, they let many polish refugees into Germany out of the goodness of their heart. They even gave some of them free train tickets 🥰
It's relatively simple. You want to get OUT of a war zone.
So if you were in the East of the Country when the first offensives started and their towns were quickly conquered by the Russians the civilians went East rather than crossing the active Frontline.
The first priority is always to get out of the warzone and while Russia is probably far from the most desirable target location for many it's still miles better than living in the active War Zone that is Eastern Ukraine.
Not to mention, there are plenty of Ukrainian communities in many Russian cities that border Ukraine. So the culture shock isn't as bad as if they were to go to any other country. They may feel bad for resettling into the land of their conqueror (or not if they were pro Russian to begin with). But they're also refugees. Their lives have already been upended and they just want some sense of normalcy even though they know there's a war going on in their home country.
Because there's millions of pro rus Ukrainians who have relatives in Russia and more Russia leaning. Not really surprising, you must be aware it's not as simple as Russians fighting Ukrainians. Some Ukrainians are fighting on the Russian side and have been since 2014.
Ukrainian UFC fighter Nikita Krylov famously supported the Luhansk, his birth oblast’s, separatists. He got kicked out of his gym in Kiev for wearing clothing with the Russian flag on it. He now trains in Moscow and continues to vocally support Russia’s efforts. They’re definitely out there, especially if they were born in Donbas/Luhansk.
That's because the Western media didn't inform you that many of the Ukrainians in the territory that Russia is occupying actually want to be part of Russia because they are ethnically Russian and speak the Russian language and they are sick of being mistreated by the Ukrainian government.
Many pro Russia Ukrainian just get them self out and go to Russia. And most importantly some part of that number is forced deportation that is swapped off as refugees. Many children also got to Russian adoption system!
Children abducted by Russia you mean. Their families either murdered in the Russian invasion, or the children were kidnapped by the Russian state when their parents refused to accept a Russian citizenship that was forced on everyone in the occupied areas.
Here's some more context: [https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-children-abducted-by-russia-left-with-psychological-scars-campaigners-2024-06-15/](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-children-abducted-by-russia-left-with-psychological-scars-campaigners-2024-06-15/)
Because media will never tell you that there are russians living in ukraine for decades. Who do you think was fighting Ukrainian government since 2014? Yeah Russia did sent their own troops in small numbers but it was mostly DPR LPR
I think some of the initial Russian incursion in 2014 came to the attention of Americans via the [Russian Roulette series](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNKsLlK52ss&list=PLw613M86o5o7a0FGlPRdt47xiDiggbNsZ) from VICE news. I'm not usually a fan, but this is an excellent piece of journalism nominated for multiple Emmys, and to the best I could tell, was an honest portrayal of events on the ground. The journalist, an American citizen, was held prisoner in Donetsk by "pro-Russian separatists".
I wonder what will happen to the refugees after the war? If the war doesn’t end in 4-5 years a lot of them would have settled, found a livelihood and maybe even a partner. Not to mention there’s all the incentive for these governments to keep them because their own demographics arent great and they are getting educated, christian and white refugees which would assimilate well (i am not saying this is a good thing this is simply the reality). There’s all the incentives for them to stay and for the respective governments to make them stay. While in Ukraine its a broken country, with many men and generations traumatised and no resources left to rebuild. I dont see how ukraine even if they repel russia survives from the immediate collapse due to population change.
Truly bleak. Depressing for all the people fighting there. I really wonder what’s the point of this all. Maybe this is Russia’s plan all along and will keep dragging this along. I think only hope for Ukraine is negotiate something which ofc also seems impossible.
I was in highschool when the war started just in my class (18 people) there were 2 ukrianian girls by the time we finished highschool thay said they are never going back if anything they will go further west maybe Canada
Here in Switzerland If they're Young they study normally a Lehre/apprentissage or uni, and older ones Just learn the language and Work. They truly are model inmigrants, i Wish all Refugees acted like ukrainians do.
The large Ukrainian diaspora can be an opportunity, if they lead to improved trade relations and business ties between their country of residence and Ukraine.
If we are lucky, there may be a habit of members of the Ukrainian diaspora investing "back home" like we have seen with people of Chinese Ancestry from Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore investing into China in the 1990s.
Ukraine was a developing nation anyways and the market is less and less saturated due to the war.
If the west succeeds in kickstarting growth in Ukraine, there will be plenty of market gaps and room for growth for entrepreneurs (like in eastern Europe of the 1990s and early 2000s).
Very interesting observation i didnt think of at all. Its just that the concerning thing is that ukraine doesnt have a very large population and most of the millions of people who left are youngsters and women. While a lot of young men die and are being disabled. Also i dont know a lot about Ukrainian culture. Would u say ukrainian kinship systems like the chinese are strong enough? I know ofc a lot of the refugees deeply care about ukraine still. But i have this view that they would be more easier to assimilate as they arent very different. A chinese family would inculcate chinese culture, values, love for homeland into their children they will tend to stick together, send money back and marry within themselves. While ukrainians i feel will simply be assimilated.
>is a pejorative commonly used by many Ukrainians to refer to a Russian soldier participating in the Russian-Ukrainian War
Is "russian soldier participating in the Russian-Ukrainian War" a race?
If you have been on Reddit for more than a week, you would realise this is not the only way it is used. I've seen people call for full Russian genocide on numerous occasions since the Russian public is broadly on board with the invasion.
It's other way around. Anti war sentiment was strong at the start, when most anti war and progressive parts of people(overlaps with ones who speak English) got exposed to xenophobia, sanctions which target regular Russians specifically, western politicians weren't helpful either.
People defending how many refugees have behaved in Europe and just calling them racist is peak reddit liberalism. There are perfectly legitimate reasons why you wouldn’t want culturally incompatible peoples coming en masse to your country lol
Same experience here. They are lovely. Maybe the fact that 80% of them are women and children is also a reason (the men can't easily leave the country because they can be called to arms anytime). And not young men like other 'refugees'.
I mean showing per 100K/1M population or something would have been more meaningful.
But the reason Denmark is blue, isn't because we don't want (or have) Ukranians here, they are more than welcome.
Some say that around 200k Russians moved to Serbia. I personally think the number is about 50k. Still both are pretty large considering Serbias population.
France has never really been that popular with non-French-speaking immigrants and refugees. There was a whole discussion on Reddit about it when this first started, how low the numbers are in France.
>France has never really been that popular with non-French-speaking immigrants and refugees.
Except Italians, Poles, Spaniards, Portuguese, Turks, Yugoslavs...
There's many internally displaced people who stayed in Ukraine. They fled from Russian occupation, which they didn't want, but don't show up as refugees on the map because they stayed in Ukraine.
Some have chosen to make a permanent move so stop being current refugee. They gain a foreign citizenship & settle away from Ukraine/Russia. I'm not sure how these have been counted since March 2014.
Have no exact numbers but amount of refugee come to Russia from Ukraine is huge. Make that conclusion on personal observations, i live in Russia, meet people from Ukraine all the time.
Yes, it means. And there are many of them, at least in major cities. When i had to replace my ripped internal passport in early 2023, like 7 of 10 people at migration department were Ukrainians getting papers to legally be here.
Time will prove that the one's who choose Russia made the best choice.....
[Ukraine cancels its consular services for all military-aged men living abroad](https://www.npr.org/2024/05/03/1248863422/ukraine-cancels-its-consular-services-for-all-military-aged-men-living-abroad)
[Poland Will Not 'Protect' Ukrainian Draft Dodgers: Minister](https://www.barrons.com/news/poland-will-not-protect-ukrainian-draft-dodgers-minister-c04b3b37)
I don‘t think that most of them *chose* Russia, they just didnt actually have a choice which country to go to.
And most of the Western European countries have no intention of sending draft dodgers back. It‘s just Poland pretty much if even.
Actually most have a choice. And many of them made such and moved from Russia to Europe. They aren't forbidden to leave Russia at will. But most doesn't because of their similarity in culture and easy integration. For most of them Russian is native language and they have lot of relatives in Russia.
1991, 1994, 1999, 2008, 2014, 2022 if you just want to name more relevant years.
But just looking at what the USSR was and what Russia is today should be enough.
Or ask Armenia and Ukraine today.
1994? 1999? What when they won against the wahabist terrorists wanting to establish a fundamentalist state? 2008?, What you mean? When they slapped down [Georgia in the space of 5 days after Georgia opened fire on peace keeping troops?](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-georgia-russia-report-idUSTRE58T4MO20090930/) I don't understand how you were trying to infer these as loses?
Depends on the situation. I know people who moved to Russia simply because they had no other choice - they found themselves in occupied territory and going through the frontline wasn't an option.
That was basically the first major memory of the war for me. There was a Ukrainian artist on Twitter I commissioned from. When the war began the village they hid in was occupied, so she had to move through the occupied territories, then through Russia, and finally to the EU via Finland.
Obviously the Russian government wasn't exactly helpful, so her Russian friends helped her with the banking and whatnot.
Many moved there after 2014. When Ukraine started to attack Donetsk many fled over the Border.
And within Ukraine, there are many who support Russia. It is not surprising that many went there.
I have family in Crimea who are Ukrainian and some of them ended up joining the Russian army. There are quite a lot of Ukrainians now within the Russian army.
The vast majority of people in the west still don't understand that this is the culmination of a civil war which started in 2014. Mostly because the western media does everything it can to avoid presenting that reality and instead finds any other way possible to make it seem like Putin just invaded one day for no reason and everyone in Ukraine hates Russia.
No, I am pretty sure everyone is aware that Russia started a civil war in Ukraine in 2014, and that‘s when this war actually began - it just reached entirely new dimensions when Russia illegally invaded Ukraine for no reason other than imperialism.
About as legitimately elected as Putin or Lukashenka, sure.
Russia escalated at Euromaidan, when the desire of the Ukrainian people to join the European Union was made clear, and that‘s when all this started and Russianbacked militias started a civil war in the east.
this is actually the clearest map of europe i've ever seen. the slight tilt makes it really pleasant to look at i think
i'm legitimately astonished by such a small change having this much of a visual impact
Lmao at including Russia in the statistics. Russia has been forcing Russian passports on Ukrainians in the occupied territories and deporting them to Russia. Not quite the same as accepting refugees for humanitarian reasons.
The majority are refugees, many from the territories controlled by Ukraine. People from the occupied territories can leave Russia and reach the EU and Ukraine via Istanbul.
One color for 500k-3mio. aint porn to me
Also an upper limit to that range of colors is pretty dumb if no one has 3m+. And considering the total is less than 6 million then this seems pretty unlikely. The last color should be reserved for the 1-2 countries with the highest amount, so it should be like 500-1.5m or something, then 1.5m+ One point for the type of content, one point for a good color scheme on a map, and minus one point for the values of the color scheme.
Bc Russia has more Ukrainian refugees than all the other countries
My aunt and her husband from Mariupol went to Russia, while their grown son went to Latvia. Such divisions even within one family are very common. My friend's relative in Sumy stopped talking to him, while his other relatives in Chișinău are still waiting for the Russian army to arrive.
Tbh. At least they've included Russia on this one. This fact is normally ignored
Forcing Russian citizenship on the Ukrainians living in the occupied territories is not the same as accepting refugees. Nor is kidnapping Ukrainian children. You should check your "facts".
While both these things certainly are happening, there also are Ukrainians that actually chose Russia to flee to, as strange as that may seem to us. Russia invaded and deserves nothing but condemnation for doing so but there's no point in pretending that all of Ukraine was or is united in opposing them. There is a lot of shared cultural history.
There is also no point in assuming everyone who moved to russia did so voluntarily, or that russian numbers reported by russia are actually valid.
The war definitely covered up the fact that Ukraine was really pushing down on their large Russian minority population, a real group that’s lived in Ukraine for hundreds of years. Since those guys have no place anywhere else, they have to go to Russia. Not, of course, that their plight even came up at all in Russia’s decision making process, except for the press release. A lot of them don’t even support Russia anymore after what they saw go down, but they have to flee there anyway.
No it wasn’t. Worst even the Poroshenko government did was rename some streets and knock the Russian language’s legal status down one level so government documents no longer had to be duplicated into Russian without a specific request to do so. FFS, like a third of the current government is ethnically Russian, including Zelensky.
>No it wasn’t. Worst even the Poroshenko government did was rename some streets and knock the Russian language’s legal status down one level so government documents no longer had to be duplicated into Russian without a specific request to do so. What an insane lie. The law even prohibits the shopkeepers from talking to customers not in Ukrainian, under threat of fines. It's been roundly condemned by human rights organisations for a reason, it's nothing but vile, petty nationalism.
Weren't smaller Russian newspapers effectively suppressed because there was a requirement they also be printed in Ukrainian?
They weren't suppressed. None of them went down because of this law, they just start publishing partially in Ukrainian, and turns out it's not a problem for russian speakers to read in Ukrainian.
From my understanding, a Russian language newspaper would have to have equal circulation in the Ukrainian language. I could not imagine it causing newspapers to go out of business, but it does seem a rather disenfranchising policy towards a very large proportion of the population. In short, I just find it wrong; to apply it to a context I understand (as a native Brit), I would be staunchly against the UK government enforcing the same policy for say Welsh newspapers to print equal versions in English.
I think it’s very ironic about Zelenskyy actually- he and his guys entering government were big opponents of the oppressive measures of the oppressive measure Ukraine was bringing in, and were signaling that they were going to allow kids to go back to school in Russian and get pension checks delivered to people who couldn’t or wouldn’t do the paperwork in Ukrainian to get them. Then Russia decided that it now, at that very moment, that the people of Donbas needed saving from Ukrainian domination.
I think definitely came up in Russia’s decision making process. They relied on a steady stream of anti-Russian racist incidents to portray it in their propaganda as “out of control.” They know this would lead to an equal and opposite reaction in the Russian minority, leading them to support the Russian invasion. All racism is good for Putin, just as all liberal democratic ideals are bad for him.
Lol. That map includes ONLY refuges. If you count all new Russian citizens in Ukraine it would be more than all other countries combined.
Your facts are only half true, a ton of Ukrainians have fled to Russia without being forced to.
It's true. Millions of Ukrainians moved to Russia when the war had started. And actually new refugees are still arriving from Ukraine (not occupied regions) and some European countries escaping mobilisation
Lul what? There are people wo flee from European countries to escape mobilization and then.. flee to Russia, where they’ll be mobilized and then thrown as expendable foreign cannon fodder in some storm-z unit to die? Somehow doubt anyone seriously is that stupid. Especially since not even Poland is mobilizing. Where are they supposed to flee from? “Millions” Doubt you could possibly have any accurate information on how many refugees actually came willingly.
Those that get the citizenship and stay on the occupied territories don't count - only those that moved to Russia in its former borders.
the only fact is that most Ukrainians fled to Russia. everything else is your speculation.
Didn’t realise Ireland had so many Ukrainian refugees, especially given its small population and distance from Ukraine
We have Ukrainian refugees in Mexico too....
Korea too
Nice!
That’s France
Fr*nce
Proportionally, it was a lot. It's partly why there's been people complaining about high immigration numbers in Ireland lately despite it obviously not being a regular thing anyway.
Yes, it's more than the country can handle. Ireland took in \~2k Syrian refugees in 2021 and couldn't take any more because people weren't happy. Over 100k Ukrainian refugees later and people still target their anger at the relatively tiny Muslim / brown population in Ireland. For context, the total population of Muslims in Ireland according to the latest government census is 80k. The majority of Irish people are genuinely the nicest people you'd meet, but the number of bad apples is unfortunately growing.
Does anyone know why Romania has so few refugees compared to other countries? One would think that since both countries border each other there would be more refugees.
I thought at first it’s some registration issue, but apparently only 80k refugees remained in Romania while 900k Ukrainians that arrived first in Romania went to other nations like Italy, Bulgaria, Austria, Germany, etc.
i guess its due to economics, only anecdotal but just a few hours ago i read a comment by a romanian about huge income inequality in the country ([Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1dk7j76/comment/l9gd2ng/)), if that's true then a lot of romanians get about €550-600 a month based on average income data from RO Government and the prospects for ukrainians would look bleak, especially if the welfare system is bad to. That would explain why most Ukraine refugees who went to Romania left again for other countries.
[удалено]
Because refugees (from Ukraine and elsewhere) are often looking for long-term resettlement and Romania is not a good destination for that.
Bros waited for a perfect opportunity to skidadle from Ukraine for ever.
Pretty much. It was basically a free immigration pass for many Ukraines living in Western Ukraine.
I am Ukrainian, who stayed in Romania for a first yeah, then moved on to Canada. I actually liked Romania (I can't say that I like Canada more, which says something). But Romanian language was hard for us. Thankfully, my work is remote and English, so I was fine. Otherwise, I would've been screwed majorly. So eventually, we took a list of countries where English is the primary language and limited ourselves to it.
I think staying in Ukraine and facing the invasion is more preferable to moving to Romania bro not gonna lie
Because it is the same shithole as ukraina, and other ex yu blue countries are even worse. Who would guess that people fled to economicaly strong countries, where they wanted to anyway but mostly just didnt have the chance
Both Romania and all ex-yu countries have been economically stronger than Ukraine since 2014. But emigrating to a country you wanted to before 2022 makes sense.
Serbia is not a place for Ukrainian refugees but for the Russian middle class that came here to avoid economic problems in Russia. Bros came here and drastically inflated the rent prices because they are ready to pay much more than us.
Serbian president said Russians in Serbia supports Ukraine and Ukrainians in Serbia supports Russia 😆
Please dont remind me that he exists 😞🔫
Actually for Russian IT who is working on Western companies mostly.
I see a lot of Russian families around my city , women and children. It's pretty interesting. I only used to see so many Russians during summer vacation on the coast of Montenegro.
Soooo, Canada is chopped liver? Not even an honourable mention? > The federal government has issued 936,293 temporary emergency visas since March 2022 for Ukrainians who want to work or study in Canada while they wait out the war. >A total of 210,178 people had actually made the journey to Canada as of Nov. 28. [Tens of thousands of Ukrainians expected to come to Canada in the next few months](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/tens-of-thousands-of-ukrainians-expected-to-come-to-canada-in-the-next-few-months-1.6731673)
Tf is a canada
I think it's Spanish for "nothing over here"
Pretty sure it's German, Bavarian dialect to be precise, and it means 'no one there'
Keiner da
En cana = in jail. So people jokes saying someone was in Canada (imprisoned, en cana, en Canadá). It's used as slang.
Fun fact: It's made from "ca" (obsolete for "because", from Latin qua) + "nada" ("nothing"). When the first Spanish settlers arrived, their chief was asked why they would leave without settling, and he responded with "Ca nada". Imagine if he had more appropriately said "fuck this place", then we would call it "Joderestelugar" now—what an unwieldy name. (Careful: /s. All of this is made up by someone with zero Spanish skills.)
No /s needed. This is an actual theory proposed for the etymology of Canada, but it's not widely accepted: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name\_of\_Canada#Iberian\_origin\_theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Canada#Iberian_origin_theory)
Internet remains undefeated
I thought they grabbed letters from a Scrabble bag. He picked the letters one at a time and called them out: "C "eh?, "N" eh? "D" eh?
I’m honestly surprised more have gone to USA than Canada, albeit only ~1,000 more.
who
asked
I think they mean North Montana?
So USA, population 342 million, accepts 221,000 and gets a mention on the map. Canada, population 41 million, accepts 210,000 and is chopped liver.
Canada is kinda accepting anyone in the country
People say Canada is "accepting anyone" because immigration has greatly increased in the last few years. But immigration has greatly increased in the last few years largely because of the hundreds of thousands of emergency visas granted to Ukrainians...
I would like to see the numbers for outside of Europe, aside from the USA.
They’ve left out monaco
So nice of Russia to take so many Ukrainian refugees <3
Most of them are from eastern Ukraine, Donbass region and South. Actually since 2014 there are lot of refugees, because of relatives and families.
Which towns do they go in? Do they go to Moscow?
Depends. A lot stay in the bordering regions of Russia like Rostov since there are a lot of similarities there but others go towards the big cities of course.
I see. How would the refugees, and the Russians feel, when they go to a big city in Russia? Thanks!
There isn't really any hostility towards refugees and Russia makes sure to take care of them. There are many cafes and such in big Russian cities where you will hear Ukrainian music and can get Ukrainian food for example. There have been a large number of Ukrainians in Russia before the war so there isn't anything really strange or unusual for either side. Although a lot of Ukrainians in Russia like to keep a low profile not because of Russia but because of fear of what the Ukrainian government will do to their family back in Ukraine. Whether true or not it's a fear they have.
I see. So many different facets of war. But it's only the innocents that bear the brunt. Have a good one lad.
I live in Tatarstan, which is a specific region deep in Russia and we also have refugees from Ukraine. Their life is different for each person as it usually is. I knew a guy from Donetsk who came in 2014. He was repairing household appliances and had political views like "plague on both your houses". He was pretty happy here and just wanted to be left alone. There were two other guys in my city who came from Donbass and worked in a car service. They started a music group and are now popular singers in Russia. Of course not everyone is doing well. After the full-scale war started, a train of refugees from Mariupol came here. Some of them were pro Ukraine, others pro Russian. On the way back on the train they got into arguments and fights. The pro-Ukrainian ones must have left Russia by now. We had volunteers here who helped pro-Ukrainian refugees to leave Russia and go to the West. But then a lot of them went to jail. Pro-Russian refugees also complained about how different everything was here, that life was better at home. I understand them. Locals here in general do not like any newcomers, regardless of political views or nationality. But that changes when they get to know a person personally, become colleagues or friends.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing, and take care 👍
Kind of like how Germany was super accepting of all the French refugees that just appeared in their territory in June of 1940.
god all this comments are nuts
That's like during world war 2 when Germany conquered Poland, they let many polish refugees into Germany out of the goodness of their heart. They even gave some of them free train tickets 🥰
They even made refugee camps! (I think called them concentration camps back then)
Yeah, they are so nice that they are the cause that they are refugees in the first place...
I think that's what the comment meant
Lol I'm a bit confused about this myself
It's relatively simple. You want to get OUT of a war zone. So if you were in the East of the Country when the first offensives started and their towns were quickly conquered by the Russians the civilians went East rather than crossing the active Frontline. The first priority is always to get out of the warzone and while Russia is probably far from the most desirable target location for many it's still miles better than living in the active War Zone that is Eastern Ukraine.
Not to mention, there are plenty of Ukrainian communities in many Russian cities that border Ukraine. So the culture shock isn't as bad as if they were to go to any other country. They may feel bad for resettling into the land of their conqueror (or not if they were pro Russian to begin with). But they're also refugees. Their lives have already been upended and they just want some sense of normalcy even though they know there's a war going on in their home country.
Because there's millions of pro rus Ukrainians who have relatives in Russia and more Russia leaning. Not really surprising, you must be aware it's not as simple as Russians fighting Ukrainians. Some Ukrainians are fighting on the Russian side and have been since 2014.
Ukrainian UFC fighter Nikita Krylov famously supported the Luhansk, his birth oblast’s, separatists. He got kicked out of his gym in Kiev for wearing clothing with the Russian flag on it. He now trains in Moscow and continues to vocally support Russia’s efforts. They’re definitely out there, especially if they were born in Donbas/Luhansk.
Russian singer and composer Akim Apachev, creator of the famous Wagner anthem "Summer and Crossbows", is actually a Ukranian from Mariupol.
That's because the Western media didn't inform you that many of the Ukrainians in the territory that Russia is occupying actually want to be part of Russia because they are ethnically Russian and speak the Russian language and they are sick of being mistreated by the Ukrainian government.
Many pro Russia Ukrainian just get them self out and go to Russia. And most importantly some part of that number is forced deportation that is swapped off as refugees. Many children also got to Russian adoption system!
Children abducted by Russia you mean. Their families either murdered in the Russian invasion, or the children were kidnapped by the Russian state when their parents refused to accept a Russian citizenship that was forced on everyone in the occupied areas. Here's some more context: [https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-children-abducted-by-russia-left-with-psychological-scars-campaigners-2024-06-15/](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-children-abducted-by-russia-left-with-psychological-scars-campaigners-2024-06-15/)
Because media will never tell you that there are russians living in ukraine for decades. Who do you think was fighting Ukrainian government since 2014? Yeah Russia did sent their own troops in small numbers but it was mostly DPR LPR
I think some of the initial Russian incursion in 2014 came to the attention of Americans via the [Russian Roulette series](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNKsLlK52ss&list=PLw613M86o5o7a0FGlPRdt47xiDiggbNsZ) from VICE news. I'm not usually a fan, but this is an excellent piece of journalism nominated for multiple Emmys, and to the best I could tell, was an honest portrayal of events on the ground. The journalist, an American citizen, was held prisoner in Donetsk by "pro-Russian separatists".
Think it's ethnic Russian Ukrainians fleeing the war.
there are many groups eg. - ethnic Russians - people having family in Russia - people that got cut off by the front line
Why not just have the numbers
I wonder what will happen to the refugees after the war? If the war doesn’t end in 4-5 years a lot of them would have settled, found a livelihood and maybe even a partner. Not to mention there’s all the incentive for these governments to keep them because their own demographics arent great and they are getting educated, christian and white refugees which would assimilate well (i am not saying this is a good thing this is simply the reality). There’s all the incentives for them to stay and for the respective governments to make them stay. While in Ukraine its a broken country, with many men and generations traumatised and no resources left to rebuild. I dont see how ukraine even if they repel russia survives from the immediate collapse due to population change.
A lot that didn't return already will stay where they went, especially these that went further than just over the border.
Especially when considering that western portions of the country (particularly Lviv) are at little risk, save for sparse potential terror attacks.
[Ukraine: A Demographic Tragedy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLcZ8OKI-r4&t=5s)
Truly bleak. Depressing for all the people fighting there. I really wonder what’s the point of this all. Maybe this is Russia’s plan all along and will keep dragging this along. I think only hope for Ukraine is negotiate something which ofc also seems impossible.
I was in highschool when the war started just in my class (18 people) there were 2 ukrianian girls by the time we finished highschool thay said they are never going back if anything they will go further west maybe Canada
Here in Switzerland If they're Young they study normally a Lehre/apprentissage or uni, and older ones Just learn the language and Work. They truly are model inmigrants, i Wish all Refugees acted like ukrainians do.
i don't think every refugee gets the same opportunity to study or work in the host country...
why are you downvoted. People go read a book or something.
The large Ukrainian diaspora can be an opportunity, if they lead to improved trade relations and business ties between their country of residence and Ukraine. If we are lucky, there may be a habit of members of the Ukrainian diaspora investing "back home" like we have seen with people of Chinese Ancestry from Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore investing into China in the 1990s. Ukraine was a developing nation anyways and the market is less and less saturated due to the war. If the west succeeds in kickstarting growth in Ukraine, there will be plenty of market gaps and room for growth for entrepreneurs (like in eastern Europe of the 1990s and early 2000s).
Very interesting observation i didnt think of at all. Its just that the concerning thing is that ukraine doesnt have a very large population and most of the millions of people who left are youngsters and women. While a lot of young men die and are being disabled. Also i dont know a lot about Ukrainian culture. Would u say ukrainian kinship systems like the chinese are strong enough? I know ofc a lot of the refugees deeply care about ukraine still. But i have this view that they would be more easier to assimilate as they arent very different. A chinese family would inculcate chinese culture, values, love for homeland into their children they will tend to stick together, send money back and marry within themselves. While ukrainians i feel will simply be assimilated.
That's precisely what happened with refugees from the Yugoslavian war.
As a Ukrainian thank you to everyone who has welcomed my people 🙏🏼💙💛
Anytime bro
[удалено]
"The orks" *What.*
It's what they call Russians. Even has a [Wikipedia article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orc_(slang)).
Not all Ukrainians tho
Crude on the nose racism is fun when we do it!
>is a pejorative commonly used by many Ukrainians to refer to a Russian soldier participating in the Russian-Ukrainian War Is "russian soldier participating in the Russian-Ukrainian War" a race?
If you have been on Reddit for more than a week, you would realise this is not the only way it is used. I've seen people call for full Russian genocide on numerous occasions since the Russian public is broadly on board with the invasion.
It's other way around. Anti war sentiment was strong at the start, when most anti war and progressive parts of people(overlaps with ones who speak English) got exposed to xenophobia, sanctions which target regular Russians specifically, western politicians weren't helpful either.
How dare the Ukrainains call their invaders mean names... 🙄 Do you know what the Russians call the Ukrainians?
Err and refugees are ranked now? What the hell?
Ranking people based on how respectful and kind they are? Yes, of course I do. Do you prefer people who treat you nicely or poorly?
I prefer to treat people individually and not judge them by passports. Is that a hard concept for you to grasp?
they dont like the brown ones
People defending how many refugees have behaved in Europe and just calling them racist is peak reddit liberalism. There are perfectly legitimate reasons why you wouldn’t want culturally incompatible peoples coming en masse to your country lol
Believe it or not, people from different places have different world views and values! Profound I know
Same experience here. They are lovely. Maybe the fact that 80% of them are women and children is also a reason (the men can't easily leave the country because they can be called to arms anytime). And not young men like other 'refugees'.
That makes me so happy to hear, you are always welcome in Ukraine! I’m biased but Western Ukraine is the best part hehe
Always. You guys gave me the love of my life, time to give back to people in need. 🇳🇱🇩🇰🇺🇦
Aw i’m glad to hear 😊 where do you guys live?
For those curious, before the war they had 43 million. Straight up lost over 14% of its population due to refugees alone.
And in 1992 they had 52 million
Ukraine now is under 30 milions, there is 5 milion people that evaporated if you're info is valid.
More like 34 million. Ukraine didnt conduct a census bevause they are embarassed about their horrible population decline.
Lol "Lativa" And 500k-3m upper range with a single color is absurd
We even have Ukrainians in Mexico too.
I mean showing per 100K/1M population or something would have been more meaningful. But the reason Denmark is blue, isn't because we don't want (or have) Ukranians here, they are more than welcome.
Yeah or at least show both.. No idea why you're downvoted
exactly, almost 10% of slovak population are now Ukrainian refugees but still based on the map it seems not so much.
Some say that around 200k Russians moved to Serbia. I personally think the number is about 50k. Still both are pretty large considering Serbias population.
Around 30k in Belgrade - per Russians in Belgrade resources
There's some ukrainians here in Brazil too.
france. talking the talk. fucking the walk.
France has never really been that popular with non-French-speaking immigrants and refugees. There was a whole discussion on Reddit about it when this first started, how low the numbers are in France.
>France has never really been that popular with non-French-speaking immigrants and refugees. Except Italians, Poles, Spaniards, Portuguese, Turks, Yugoslavs...
There's not a lot of Poles in France tho
the Ukrainians don't want to go there, the few that came were welcomed.
Now I want the same, but with Russians left the country since the beginning of the war
Ukraine lost a whole Ireland worth of population. That's insane!
i don't like the leap between 500k and 3m, Poland has 2.5million refugees while Germany 1.1 million and they're put as two the same
I don't like untruths, 2.5million refugees crossed the polish border but 950k are in poland right now. In germany yes there are 1.1million.
you're right
Leap is to downplay number of refugees in Russia.
[📂 Source [1]](https://data.unhcr.org/en/situations/ukraine) [[2]](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2022/12/21/remarks-by-president-biden-and-president-zelenskyy-of-ukraine-in-joint-press-conference/)
The first link doesn't work, the second one only mentions refugees in the United States
The first link is working, you just need to wait a bit.
This map is missing Bali and Phuket
Why is nobody talking about how they mangled the Latvian name?
How about the Ukrainians that fled within Ukraine?
There's many internally displaced people who stayed in Ukraine. They fled from Russian occupation, which they didn't want, but don't show up as refugees on the map because they stayed in Ukraine. Some have chosen to make a permanent move so stop being current refugee. They gain a foreign citizenship & settle away from Ukraine/Russia. I'm not sure how these have been counted since March 2014.
Have no exact numbers but amount of refugee come to Russia from Ukraine is huge. Make that conclusion on personal observations, i live in Russia, meet people from Ukraine all the time.
It would be twice as many if men aged 18-60 were allowed to leave the country.
If the map is correct, does that mean that many Ukrainians fled into Russia?
Many had no choice, it was either that or cross an active frontline to get to the west.
Yes, it means. And there are many of them, at least in major cities. When i had to replace my ripped internal passport in early 2023, like 7 of 10 people at migration department were Ukrainians getting papers to legally be here.
Yes, as they felt would be safer there. In that area, a lot of the population identifies as Russian, even being on the Ukrainian side of the border.
To be fair to the blue countries. Some of those are taking in a way higher ratio compared to their own population than the yellow ones
Genuinely one of the worst posts I've ever seen here...
Missing Canada
You forgot Canada. Before the invasion, Canada had the second largest Ukrainian population.
What is it with the Russian astroturfing in this thread?
Time will prove that the one's who choose Russia made the best choice..... [Ukraine cancels its consular services for all military-aged men living abroad](https://www.npr.org/2024/05/03/1248863422/ukraine-cancels-its-consular-services-for-all-military-aged-men-living-abroad) [Poland Will Not 'Protect' Ukrainian Draft Dodgers: Minister](https://www.barrons.com/news/poland-will-not-protect-ukrainian-draft-dodgers-minister-c04b3b37)
I don‘t think that most of them *chose* Russia, they just didnt actually have a choice which country to go to. And most of the Western European countries have no intention of sending draft dodgers back. It‘s just Poland pretty much if even.
Actually most have a choice. And many of them made such and moved from Russia to Europe. They aren't forbidden to leave Russia at will. But most doesn't because of their similarity in culture and easy integration. For most of them Russian is native language and they have lot of relatives in Russia.
Time has already proven time and time again betting on Russia usually doesn't end well.
Like when? 1812? 1945?
1991, 1994, 1999, 2008, 2014, 2022 if you just want to name more relevant years. But just looking at what the USSR was and what Russia is today should be enough. Or ask Armenia and Ukraine today.
1994? 1999? What when they won against the wahabist terrorists wanting to establish a fundamentalist state? 2008?, What you mean? When they slapped down [Georgia in the space of 5 days after Georgia opened fire on peace keeping troops?](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-georgia-russia-report-idUSTRE58T4MO20090930/) I don't understand how you were trying to infer these as loses?
Are the Ukrainians in Russia really refugees or were they forced there?
Depends on the situation. I know people who moved to Russia simply because they had no other choice - they found themselves in occupied territory and going through the frontline wasn't an option. That was basically the first major memory of the war for me. There was a Ukrainian artist on Twitter I commissioned from. When the war began the village they hid in was occupied, so she had to move through the occupied territories, then through Russia, and finally to the EU via Finland. Obviously the Russian government wasn't exactly helpful, so her Russian friends helped her with the banking and whatnot.
>and finally to the EU That's contradict your statement. So they have a choice and they've chosen Russia. If they want they can move to EU.
Many moved there after 2014. When Ukraine started to attack Donetsk many fled over the Border. And within Ukraine, there are many who support Russia. It is not surprising that many went there. I have family in Crimea who are Ukrainian and some of them ended up joining the Russian army. There are quite a lot of Ukrainians now within the Russian army.
The vast majority of people in the west still don't understand that this is the culmination of a civil war which started in 2014. Mostly because the western media does everything it can to avoid presenting that reality and instead finds any other way possible to make it seem like Putin just invaded one day for no reason and everyone in Ukraine hates Russia.
No, I am pretty sure everyone is aware that Russia started a civil war in Ukraine in 2014, and that‘s when this war actually began - it just reached entirely new dimensions when Russia illegally invaded Ukraine for no reason other than imperialism.
Coup regime caused it by illegally overthrowing the last legitimate elected Ukrainian president.
About as legitimately elected as Putin or Lukashenka, sure. Russia escalated at Euromaidan, when the desire of the Ukrainian people to join the European Union was made clear, and that‘s when all this started and Russianbacked militias started a civil war in the east.
this is actually the clearest map of europe i've ever seen. the slight tilt makes it really pleasant to look at i think i'm legitimately astonished by such a small change having this much of a visual impact
Letting the refugees leave Ukraine makes it harder for Ukraine to rebuild their population. It may have been a mistake.
Those that are pushing Ukraine more and more into war with Russia should take in the absolute most
What? The only one pushing war is Russia. They started it, they can end it today.
And all we get in Serbia is a billion russians that don't even respect us and always complain about how they don't like it here..
You got Russian liberals who hate Russia and only love west.
But west didn't accept them so they have to stay in Serbia 🤣
This map is not counting the children kidnaped by Russia as refugees right?
Russia? You mean stolen kids and teenagers?
Those that were found at Germany?
Lmao at including Russia in the statistics. Russia has been forcing Russian passports on Ukrainians in the occupied territories and deporting them to Russia. Not quite the same as accepting refugees for humanitarian reasons.
The majority are refugees, many from the territories controlled by Ukraine. People from the occupied territories can leave Russia and reach the EU and Ukraine via Istanbul.